The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 223: Navigating This Year's Trade Deadline

Episode Date: February 24, 2018

Chris Johnston joins the show to help preview Monday's trade deadline.  Topics discussed include:  2:10 An evolving approach to the trade deadline 9:12 The return the Senators got for Derick Brassard 13:39 What the rest of the league can learn from the Penguins 19:50 The complicated nature of an Erik Karlsson Trade 36:08 The Canucks and Erik Gudbranson's surprising extension 51:36 How Vegas' success will impact Seattle's expansion process 1:01:00 Under the radar storylines for Monday's deadline Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Welcome to the Hockey Pediocast. My name is Demetri Filipovich and sitting across from me in the CBC building here in downtown Toronto and a conference room is my good pal Chris Johnson. Chris, what's going on, man? The Hart Trophy Conference Room, most valuable to your team. We had to kick some people out to sit here, but I think it's a nice little space. We've got a scenic view. There's people walking by. It's Friday afternoon, though, so it's not too busy. And I think we're going to run this on Saturday. So hopefully stuff we talk about doesn't get deemed completely irrelevant and useless, more so than it already is. I've already made peace with that. I mean,

I mean, there's only so much we can do. Especially around this time of year, it's like a matter of minutes, and all of a sudden, a thought you had or a tweet you had becomes just looks so ridiculously stupid. Well, and what time is it? It's 4.45 Eastern time. Yep. On the Friday night, and I've been doing Saturday headlines this year on Ocadockeye and Canada.

I mean, normally... That was a nice little humble brag there. No, but I'm going to tell you a story that illustrates the point, is that normally I would have at least an item or two in my back pocket for Saturday by this time. I mean, I'd feel scared, nervous, concerned. If I didn't, nothing right now. I mean, it's just because something that there's just no guarantee that it would last that long at this point.

So it's going to be a frantic Saturday afternoon in a good way coming up with our show. And news moves fast. So you've got to be on top of things. Well, okay, so speaking of the news, we had a little trade here. We had one last night with Michael Grabner going into Devils, and we can touch on that a little bit. But then we also had the senators. I'm not going to count the deal in front of trade as the first domino falling. I feel like that was its own separate entity.

But with Derek Brissarar being traded, it feels like this could open the floodgates a little bit. And obviously we're going to talk about Eric Carlson here. Are you bored of talking about all things Eric Carlson yet in terms of the trade? Not remotely. I mean, just because that's such an interesting dynamic and an unusual sort of trade. I mean, what's cool about this deadline really is that we're not just talking about rental players. and, you know, it's not just this guy with an expiring contract for a fifth. You know, there's not really that much analysis that needs to go into a lot of those moves.

Whereas I think that this year there's a different dynamic at play between a lot of the teams. Now, why do you think that is? Because you're right. I mean, Carlson's not the only one. We've got Ryan McDonough, you know, even Mike Hoffman, Oliver Eckman-Larsson. You have a bunch of big names with yours still left on their deals that are theoretically considered to be available. Obviously, it's going to take a bigger package of prospects and picks to make that happen. but it feels like this year more so than years past,

the dynamic has changed a little bit. Do you think that's kind of a one-off and it's just a weird thing? And next year we're going to go back to a regularly scheduled programming of the rental market being the be-all end all, or do you think that this is a sign that the league and the way teams are operating is changing at all? I see it way more as a change in the thought process of the front offices. You know, the shine is off the rental markets.

I mean, we've seen, you know, really if you look back on the, last five or six deadlines say to try to keep it narrow. I mean, most of the talk has been about the rentals and whether it was Martin Hansel last year, you know, there's been some big prices paid for those players and often it doesn't really prove to help the other teams so much that's acquiring them. And I think this is just one way to get value.

And, you know, some of these teams, especially, I mean, Carlson's its own trial. It's its own thing. So we'll just leave that to the side for now. But,

you know, I think even with someone like Derek Prasar, if you're the senators, you know that if you hold him until next year, his value to deadline probably isn't that much. I mean, this is the time if you really don't feel that he's going to be playing for you beyond next summer. And, you know, for them, they're entering a rebuild period. You know, I can understand the philosophy there in thinking this is a way to extract maximum value. You know, even for the teams acquiring, I mean, if you're the Penguins, now, you're giving up your first round pick and a pretty decent prospect. But it's not just one playoff

run. It's not all or nothing. If it works right now with Derek Pursar. or not. I mean, they have all next season now to try to win another Stanley Cup with them, even if it doesn't go well this spring. So I just think it's an evolution. There's more thought being paid, and let's face it, and teams are not trading first-round picks like they used to. I mean, that was

a fixer of the deadline five years ago. That really now, because lottery protection only takes you so far. I mean, we have yet to see a trade, say, that's like a three years out lottery protected pick. Maybe that will be the way teams get around it. But, you know, Ottawa has put themselves

in a perilous position with the first rounder they dealt in the Matthew Shane deal earlier this year. And I think it's a cautionary tale that, you know, even if you think your team's going to be good, who knows? I mean, the lightning missed the playoffs last year. And theoretically, their first round pick could have been the first overall pick. So there's a lot of different dynamics. And I do think front offices are probably getting a little bit more analytical. Yeah.

Yeah. No, definitely. And that would imply not just looking at numbers and spreadsheets that some people might think, but it's sort of a thought process, right? And kind of thing outside the box and trying to get more. creative and it's interesting that you bring up the idea of sort of picks way down the line and having all sorts of different protections and we see that quite a bit in the NBA and obviously it's an entirely different animal but I've always been fascinated by that I mean I understand why

a GM would be reluctant to give up a current asset in terms of a player for a pick four years down the line that he might not even be around to see and get to make anything out of but that could be because you never know I mean we see this the sport is so sickly and who knows what even the penguins right now are going to look like in three years, right? Like I feel like their first round pick then is much more appealing just in terms of pure upside than what it is right now because I feel like we know this year it's not going to be that high of a pick. Well, and it's another wrinkle to try to extract more value in a trade if you're a team making that pick. And to me it seems like a natural evolution of where this will go because, you know,

there is a real reluctance now for sure in first round picks to be moved. I mean, I guess if we look at the absolute top of the standings at this moment in time, you know, if you're the Boston Bruins or Tampa Lightning, a team that really there's no plausible way they're missing the playoffs. They could trade their first round pit because they know it's this year and they know the circumstances and they know it's going to be 22 or below, 25 or below, whatever, you know, the case may be. It's just much trickier if you're a bubble team.

And, you know, those are the teams that probably want to be in the market in some ways, but they're hamstrung because it's a risk. And last year, seeing three teams win the first three picks from down in the draft order in terms of the percentages, you know, that should be, that should have a chilling effect. And I'm fascinated, for one, what is going to happen with Ottawa and Colorado just because it feels like, just feels like one of those ones that's going to go wrong. And I'm not sure at this point beyond trying to reacquire that pick as part of maybe moving one of these big pieces of senators still have, what they can do. Because, like, let's say they end up with a third overall pick now.

I mean, they're right near the bottom of the standings. You're not punting that one over. Yeah. But then it's not protected for next year. Yes. And you're at the same time we're talking about the moving out Bresards and even Pajos. And if Eric Carlson moves, I mean, they're going to be down to what, Mark Stone, maybe Matt Dushain. I think that he'll stay around for next season.

But what's their team going to look like? I mean, it's going to be hard to imagine them being a playoff team next year based on the course they're charting right now. Well, I'm very fascinated to see what that match. would look like in terms of at what point you just bite the bullet and give the abs the pick this year. Obviously, if it's a top five, I imagine you're going to be pretty tough to save face and give that pick away. But it's risky because you're right. I mean, based on the way this team is headed and we'll talk about Eric Carlson here in detail. But I mean, if they're going to get rid of all of these key contributors right now,

it's hard to imagine things getting better in the short term. So that's a risky proposition. Well, let's remind everyone too. So the condition on the pick is that if it's top 10 in 2018, they have up, and I can't remember how it specifically word of it, basically until the night of, to shift it to Colorado. So it can go right down to the wire, and I imagine it might. So the question is, at what number,

and I'm not enough of a draft expert to know maybe where the drop-off is right now in that draft, but what number is it worth it to shift it? Is it six or seven? Is it five? Is it four? I mean, it's a tough. thing because, you know, odds are they're going to win the lottery next year,

just the way these things work. And I would be very nervous about that one. Obviously, Pierodorian at this moment has many other things to worry about. He's probably not that concerned about that. But I'll tell you, if Colorado was interested in Eric Carlson, I would be making sure I'm getting that pick back just to remove

any of the possibility. Okay. Let's talk about the trade first here that's already happened, and let's get the analysis out of the way there. So the senators get back a top prospect goalie of Pittsburgh's first round pick this year, which will be in the 20s presumably, and Ian Cole, who it looks like they're going to try to move before the deadline for other future assets. What do you make of that from both teams' perspectives?

Because it does seem like pretty reasonable deal for both teams, I'd say. And I understand that's not generally the sexiest opinion to have in today's day and age. people want people want one team to come away looking like bandits and then you'd crush the other team for getting way too little in the trade but I don't know

it seems pretty reasonable what do you think? There's no clear loser there I mean we've known Pittsburgh has been anxious to really get another centerman and hopefully in their case they want an impact centerman

and they have no cap space so you know based on the deal as we understand it now it appears that they've managed to do that without you know really having to do anything too crazy you know Ian Cole was on the market earlier in the year he then got on a good run and has played well

actually of late and earned back you know I think some of Mike Sullivan's trust so it's a bit of a surprise to see him move but you know it's been suggested to me Ottawa might already have another landing spot for him I mean he they might never stitch him a sweater in Ottawa this might just be a quick return and flip for him and so maybe that's how he gets in instead of someone like Matt Hunwick who I think that depends we're looking to move but for them

look you're you're gonna do anything to try to win one more cup Yeah. And I don't think it's crazy to think, you know, with Prasar having another year that for the next two years, I don't see any reason that Malcolm or Crosby aren't still going to be elite, huge difference-making players in that window. They're blue line somehow. They're going to try to win it again with a paper-thin blue line. They did it last year. Although they have Chris LaTang healthy this time around, which obviously is a lot better than where they were this time a year ago.

I can understand this move. There weren't many centers. I mean, that's another thing. There's not really a huge market here. And I actually believe, you know, if we go back, say, two, three weeks, Ottawa, you know, wasn't really, they didn't feel they had to move Brassard. You know, he actually wasn't a player that they had prioritized this moving, but the market for him was so strong because there aren't,

there isn't a real rental market at center that I think that they started to realize that this was a time to move him because there was, you know, demand for him and, you know, because he wasn't going to be around forever. So, you know, this wasn't actually one of the guys. I mean, the names we've really focused on most of the, year are Hoffman, Pajot, and Zach Smith as guys, I think that they had prioritized to try to move by the deadline. This is sort of evolved out of that. And, you know, I like to return. I mean, look, it's probably, it could be a 30s pick. I mean, would we be that surprise if Pittsburgh's in the

cup final again? No, not at all. Not at this point. So, I mean, if you're Ottawa, you almost have to just mentally steal yourself for that. You're getting a goaltender that had a good showing at the World Juniors and was a second round pick last year, which is good. And we'll see. And we'll see. what they can get for Ian Cole. I mean, I think Ian Cole to stage will still get them a decent return of futures. I mean, you see, I mean, you see Nick Holden went for a third round pick, and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to get something similar at the very least. I mean, we see every time this, every year, this kind of trade deadline, days leading up to it, and then the day of teams convince themselves that you can never have enough war on bodies on the blue line,

injuries happen. You want kind of reliable, safe, quote, unquote, I'm using air quotes on all of these things. Well, Ian Cole's played some big games in the play. playoffs. He has. You know what? He was serviceable for the penguins. So I could see if you're a contender why you'd have that view of him still at this point. I mean, part of me wonders maybe there's a fit in Tampa

for him. Even if that's a severe downgrade from the Carlson talks, but you know, the lightning have some issues or concerns about their blue line. You know, perhaps this is part of something that's going on with them. You know, and let's face it, Ottawa's can save some money here.

You know, Brassard's contract is structured. I don't have the number in front of me, but The actual money is less next year, even though the cap hit is still around $5 million. But part of all they're doing here is clearly to save some money. So they achieve that aim. They got a prospect. And I think it's a pretty fair return, especially given the fact that I don't think we'll see many first rounders move. Yeah, no, and I like the fact that, you know, they were at least kind of decisive and got ahead of the curve a little bit, you know, sort of setting the market right now for themselves as opposed to waiting to see how it goes.

And then all of a sudden, you never know you could wind up leaving the deadline and still having Derek. Prasard and I don't think that would be ideal just based on the fact that these three assets seem much more appealing for where the senators are headed. From the Penguins perspective, their forward group is sick, outlandishly good. And, you know, I made this point on Twitter, and I just want to bring it up here with you as well, you know, it helps having Crosby and Malkin, obviously. And I think when you're looking at, oh, what can other teams learn from the Penguins and how can they replicate their success. It's going to be very tough to get two guys like that and obviously having them makes up for a lot of other things. But I think something the Penguins have done really well here

lately is not committing money, especially in years to come to the depth pieces. If you look, especially up front, other than Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel, Connor Shiri's the only one who's under contract past next season and he's at a $3 million cap hit and seems to be playing perfectly well for that kind of money. So I love that because we see teams often get into trouble. when they start rewarding depth players, third fourth liners, third pairing defensemen years to come, because you never know what's going to happen and you want to maintain that flexibility. And that's why a team like the Penguins is able to year over year keep adding pieces like this and improving their team, even though you think, like how could they possibly keep adding guys?

Aren't they up against it? And it's like, nope, they've actually been pretty smart with their money. They have. And it's been an evolution for them because it involves two different management teams too, because it's amazing. I think we're almost going to forget those middle years. You know, some of it was marred obviously by Crosby's concussion issues, but, you know, they were a team that was a perpetual underperformer in the playoffs

or had goal-tending issues. Mark Henry Flurry had a couple tough series. Whatever it was, it did look like that they might only, that they might squander having these two amazing sentiment and only win one cup and be a finalist and another. And everything's changed because they've hit on the strategy of, you know, promoting, you know, useful players but not superstars. and just letting Sydney Crosby. Remember, it used to be thought that, A, it was hard to find wingers for Cindy Crosby,

and B, that only Chris Cunitz and Pascal DuPuy had figured out the magic formula. You know, what we've since learned is you can basically put any, you know, above average AHL talent with him and those guys produce. And, you know, credit to Connor Sherry and Brian Russ played with them a couple years ago. And, you know, and then Jake Gensel last year. And it's been, there's been a lot of guys this season. Dominic Simone this year. It's like, it's like, it's an annual tradition.

You know, more recently has seen some time there. And, you know, I think that they've, I think there's been an evolution in SIDS mind, too, frankly, because, you know, he was known early in his career for being hard on his linemates and expecting, you know, maybe them to be somewhere closer to his skill level than they actually were. Whereas now this is showing to work. And I do think that there's a model here, you know, for teams like the Leafs, say, who have young players that are presumably going to get locked up to, huge money deals and then how you handle everybody else around them is going to be important.

And, you know, they're going to have to keep their pipeline brimming to remain, you know, a real contender for many years to come. You know, it's interesting that Jordan Stahl was, you know, one of the players that got sacrifice in this. And some of that was ego-based and that, you know, Jordan understood he was only ever going to be the third-line center behind those two guys, you know, but they would have had to give him at that time. He ended up getting a 10-year deal from Carolina when he got traded. But, you know, they haven't given those type of deals, you're right, out. And, you know, they bought low on Phil Kessel.

They didn't have to give up much asset-wise for him. The Leafs even retained $1.2 million of his cap hit. They've been smart. But just look at how they've approached this third-line center thing. I mean, I think that's where teams really tend to get themselves in trouble. Basically, they let Nick Benino walk. Yeah, but at first they had Brandon Sutter. Right.

And they downgraded, in theory, they made a trade where they got other assets from from Brennan Sutter, whose contract looks horrible now in the Canucks to Nick Bonino. and then they use Nick Benino, great playoff contributor for them. And instead of paying him what he wanted this summer, they say thank you for your time here. We're going to eventually try and find another guy, even though we don't have a clear replacement to begin with. They bring in Riley Sheehan and mixed results, but he's done perfectly fine for them. And now obviously Derek Barsar is an upgrade. And that's the flexibility you need to maintain.

And I love that sort of top-down approach of building your roster as opposed to you see teams like the Highlanders, for example, just locking up Cal Clutterbuck and Casey Zazicas, who are fine enough players, but four or five-year deals, and all of a sudden, you're struggling. Those aren't the guys who are ultimately going to decide whether you win or lose the Stanley Cup. You're going to need the superstars to begin with. Right. And do you know what, thinking back on it now, too, the Penguins were really, what's the right word here? They're really patient to start this year.

I mean, Greg McKay, I believe, started for them as one of their center options. I mean, they were confident that they could go through this season and address that need. And, you know, Jim Rutherford's made probably a million trades as one of the most. experienced GMs. But, you know, the strategy is proven to pay off. I mean, look, we're a couple days out from the deadline. He didn't get caught holding the bag. He had no cap space and somehow was able to maneuver this one.

You know, we see some teams, they get to the end and nothing happens. They go, oh, the cap, it's hard to make deals. I mean, it is hard sometimes to make these deals. There are going to be a winner out of this deadline, I would think, no matter what happens, I mean, just the fact that they were able to rebuild their bottom six through the trades they have made this season. And, you know, the one thing, too, about Crosby and Malka, is those guys played below value for basically their whole careers.

I mean, they made a lot of money, but they didn't go for the max contracts, and that's helped Pittsburgh as well. Yep. And now we're at the point where, you know, people were panicking about them earlier in the season, and some of that was just a percentage-driven thing. They couldn't buy any saves. They had horrible shooting percentage. But now, all of a sudden, based on the way they're playing and with this edition,

I don't think there's a, I don't think there's a series out there where I would feel confident picking the other team to beat them. Like I really like the Bruins right now, and I think they're legitimately a great team. And the lightning, obviously, with the talent they have, and we'll see if they add another big-name defenseman back there as well without subtracting anything from their main roster, maybe we'll revisit this discussion. But for now, the Penguins are right up there with those teams as the scariest teams that East has to offer in the entire league as a whole.

Eric Carlson, we're 20 minutes in, and we haven't even really talked about it yet. I know you wrote about this yesterday. Let's just get into it. Would you expect something to happen between now and the deadline on Monday? And if not, I guess, June then seems like an inevitability, right? It seems like at this point, the relationship has just gone so far south that it seems like it's going to be really tough to envision Eric Carlson being there in the years to come. Yeah, that's where the senators are at. I mean, where they've internally made the decision he's not going to be with them.

certainly at the end of his current contract in a year and a half's time. And, you know, so then it becomes about how do they get the best deal. Obviously, there's been a lot of talk about them wanting to try to get rid of Bobby Ryan's $30 plus million as part of this trade, which severely complicates the possibility of making it here in the next 72 hours. But I do think that there's still a chance, a pretty good chance. He's moved by the deadline. He's definitely moved by the offseason. And I think, you know, the point I was making.

and the little opinion piece I wrote was just, if you've decided you're moving them, to me, you do it now because I actually don't think it gets easier in the offseason. I think it's easy to say, oh, yeah, there's more teams and this and that. But the desire for those teams to pay an absolute premium, I think, goes down in kind of the quiet of the offseason, the fact that they'll be able to reflect on the, you know, that they only have them for one year, or even if they're extending them, they're not getting them as much as a bargain once the extension kicks. in. I think that there's a unique sort of timing thing here where if they can make this trade

by this deadline, I mean, they have full control. They don't have to work with Eric other than his 10 team no trade list. And it's a deal that they'd like to make. You know, it's the best at this point for everyone involved, I think. You know, once you've made that decision, it's like remaining married before the divorce. You know, you might, if they can do it now, it's optimal. The issue they're having, of course, is there's really not that many true suitors. for all kinds of reasons in the middle of the season. Especially if you throw the Bobby Ryan wrinkle into things, right? Yeah, I mean, that requires a third team, especially with the lightning, you know,

the most likely landing spot. If Eric is moved by Monday, it'd be a surprise if he ended up anywhere other than Tampa, you know, before this deadline. I think, you know, once you get beyond the deadline and we're talking with the draft, then there's a whole range of possibilities there. Although I don't think the return would necessarily be stronger, which is kind of my point that this is the time if you've made the decision you're not keeping them to get the best result back.

it's a fascinating trade. I don't think it's one Ottawa can win. I really don't see a win here for them. We're definitely losing the best player in the trade. You're losing the best player. You're not likely to ever recoup the value unless you get lucky with one of the prospects, say you get back or the draft pick you make.

And your fans, I mean, one of the stories of the Ottawa senators, and it's not what hockey fans really want to focus on, is that their business is failing. I mean, they're not selling enough tickets. the reason they've lost another president's CEO in the middle of the season is that there's some serious issues there on the ownership level and with the senior executive on the business side of that operation. And it's clearly, you know, flooded over into the fact that, you know, it's not church and state with the hockey department and the business department. I mean,

there's some serious issues here. And, you know, what, what's it going to look like in the Canadian Tire Center if they, you know, they sell off Carlson in addition to Brassard, perhaps some other members of this team? I mean, we have. even seen anything like this in a long time. And that's not to suggest they shouldn't do it. I think now they should basically, given that we're this deep into the conversation publicly and clearly privately, Pierre Dorian and his staff are there as well. And this could be the biggest trade of the salary cap era. I mean, I don't know where we put it now. Joe Thornton's deal, which is going way back for, you know, kind of spare parts was one of the biggest ones. I was

very early in the cap years, but I think how long he's played in San Jose and been exceptional. Certainly the P.K. Suban deal, the Taylor Hall deal that happens on the same day, even though they feel like they're related, even though they're not. But this, to me, given that Eric Carlson is still only 27, he turns 28 in May, I mean, this guy could be a great defenseman for seven or eight more seasons, and he's getting traded away, and it could end up being for very little. Yeah, only a handful of four months after. they were one game away, one goal away from making the Stanley Cup final. And obviously, you know, I don't think anyone believed that they were necessarily the best team in the Eastern Conference

and should have been representing the conference in the final. But, I mean, you can't argue with the results and they were there. And it's just remarkable that it's happened to this quickly and the relationship has deteriorated this past. I wish we had like the lines from that game seven in Pittsburgh because we know you're taking out Taurus. You're taking out Brassard now. You know, basically the top two centers for Ottawa on that series. if you take out Carlson, you know, they've lost Mothot, who played with Carlson in that series. They've lost Spinoff off their second pairing.

The cuts are going to go deeper than that, I would expect, by Monday's Day. I mean, they will have literally picked that whole team apart and we'll see what they have back. I mean, obviously, Matt Duchyne is there now and wasn't part of that series, but they don't have a lot to show for it in current day assets. And, you know, look, they're doing a rebuild. It might work. I mean, it's work for other teams if they get some luck in the last. lottery and if they hit on some of these prospects.

But it's a risky venture. It's a money-saving venture. And I'm fascinated to see what the sort of implications are off the ice in terms of tickets sold, how they get a building built. You know, what happens there? Because there is definitely some instability in that organization. Right. And yeah, so the Bobby Ryan thing is interesting because it's always tough when you're

talking about the idea of kind of cutting costs and the finances because there's bigger factors there in play but you know for a team that's clearly if they trade er carlson going to be taking a massive step back and really embracing a full rebuild and it'll probably take a few years it's really tough to um sort of spin the idea that it's okay for them to take a smaller return if someone takes bobby ryan's money off with their hands because it's not like capspace is definitely an asset we've seen that but i don't think they're going to be all of a sudden filling that money left behind they've cleared from the Bobby Ryan deal with players they're going to come in and help them right now. So it's one of those things where it's like if you're going to suck,

you may as well just keep Bobby Ryan anyways and just get as many picks and prospects as you can back for Carlson. So if they really do take a smaller return just to get Ryan's money off the books, I feel like Senators fans online are going to be very, very upset. Well, and it's a risky strategy. You're right, because they don't spend the cap. I mean, when the Toronto Maple Leafs were going through their rebuild, they were using their cap space and their organization's financial might to extract more assets. I mean, they got rid of Dion Funuf to take on, you know, the bad contracts at the time of McCulloch,

Greening and Jared Cowan, which Ottawa wanted rid of. I mean, they were sort of strategic and now they were allotting that cap space. So for them, if it was a deal out of that sort of organization, you might say, oh, will they have something planned for that seven and a half million? they're opening up on Ryan or $7.25 million in Capspace. With Ottawa, it's probably going to sit empty. And, you know, I can understand why they're going to do it. I mean, if they do it, they'll probably come on and say, look, we need that money to sign, you know, stone long term

or, you know, to attempt to retain Matt Dushain, who must be having, like, PTSD right now, thinking he got out of the nightmare in Colorado and now is full on in another rebuild type of situation. And we should say for D'Shaun, the one kind of silver lining here for both him but also the senators is that he's actually played remarkably well through all this, I believe. I forget what the exact totals are, but he's over a point in a game in his past 20-something games. So whether he's going to be there long term and they're going to resign him or whether he's going to be back out the door either this summer or next season,

at least seems like they're going to be able to recoup some assets. They might not get back the type of pick that Colorado is going to get from them, but they're going to get back something. It's not like it's a completely sunk. Exactly. And I know Douchain likes it there. I mean, I don't know how he feels about what might be happening in these three days and how it's hard to forecast how that might or might not impact his decision, you know, potentially even this summer when they can open negotiations with him.

But he has enjoyed playing for the Sends and I think he likes living in the community. And, you know, there is a chance they do keep him. But if they do, they're going to have to pay him. And so that's probably the way you sell this, but it's going to, certainly for the hardcore fans, I think it's going to be a tough one to take. if Ryan goes with Carlson. I still think it's a big if. I don't know.

I mean, really Vegas is the only team where you could see that being a fit, a comfortable fit, because the Golden Knights really don't have many bad contracts on their books. You know, they do, I guess they did take the Grabowski deal

and Clarkson as well as part of that. So those are players that will never pay for them, play for them that are getting paid. You know, Bobby Ryan could probably play on their team though. And they don't have a star. You know, that's, I mean, with due respect to William Carlson, who's had a real star turn through three quarters of the season, but, you know, they don't have a true dynamic difference maker. Especially in the blue line. Exactly. And they could get that in Carlson. So, you know, they're a team where there's a fit. In my sense, is Vegas isn't all that anxious to do

this, mostly because they don't really have that many prospects yet. I mean, they had one draft, and they did have three first rounders in that draft, but they don't know yet what those players are going to be. They have a ton of picks coming up, but their view is that they have to build this thing by hitting on all those picks, not trading them away to try to be good now. So if Ryan has to be stapled to Carlson,

I think that we're talking about a summer deal and frankly, probably an uninspiring return, if they move off that or come to the conclusion that it doesn't make sense, you know, there's a way better chance he's dealt by Monday afternoon. And as I say, I think that's going to be what's best for everyone involved. And I have to believe there's a chance management gets there mentally knowing that, even though the problem really is there's not a market here.

There's the lightning and Steve Eisenman doesn't lose many trades. So if he is moved by Monday, do you view the lightning as the most logical and, quite frankly, only destination for him? or do you, if they do move off of the Bobby Ryan idea and they just want to get back the biggest return possible? It's the most likely. I mean, there's a ton of smoke here. And it's pretty clear, Carlson is warm to the idea.

I think there's an NBA style, kind of subtle, you know, come down here, Eric's, you know, thing going on with Victor Hedman. I mean, I'm not actually accusing him of tampering. It's more of been playful. But, you know, what I mean is that I think that, you know, spending that All-Star weekend in Tampa, knowing how good that team is, having friends on that team. I mean, all that stuff is appealing to Carlson. I think he'd be willing to talk about signing an extension there too.

And maybe not at the kind of market value we've talked about in the past because of the tax situation and the fact he would be part of a good team. I mean, I don't know that that's a lightning's intent in making that deal, but it's certainly an open possibility if they make this move. And, you know, for Tampa, they have this small window of this year's playoffs and next year where Nikita Kutrov is undervalue, where Braden points on an entry-level deal and producing well above what he's paid,

but that only lasts for so long. And the idea of getting another defenseman, I think that could tilt the ice their way. I mean, it's tough to pass up. They might only get one chance like this, is what I mean. And again, Steve Isamon is such a cool customer. We saw John and Drew an attempt to put pressure on him. It didn't work.

He kept them forever and then still got a good return on the deal when people thought it wasn't possible. no one bullies him in no no deadlines imposed or whatever have i seen any evidence you know the stamco situation have ever made him move off his mark but this is going to test him because you only get a chance like this once with this kind of team yeah yeah and he's made it very clear that uh you know it's tough to say how much of it is just posture in the media and whatnot and how much of it is actually the truth but that they have a very very strong preference towards not giving up anything off their current team to make this happen which obviously makes sense if they're acquiring carls and

to try to win the cup this year. It makes sense that they prioritize giving up the futures that aren't currently in the team, but it's kind of tough to see Ottawa spinning this as, I mean, they're not going to win this trade, as you said, but even as something where they stay face a little bit if they're not getting back, either is her gadget over point. They're not getting point.

That one I'm sure of, you know, that Tampa is not trading him. I mean, in Tampa's eyes, he might be their number one center at this point, and he's still a kid. and his upside and growth and even just that he's under team control at a good number. All those reasons I don't see them ever dealing him. You know, Surgachev, clearly it's not their preference to do it,

but I could understand why they might do that one a little bit more. And the question really is if you're Ottawa, and especially if we're imagining this scenario, Sands Bobby Ryan, how can you make a trade with Tampa and not get one of those two guys? I don't think you can. Clearly the best two young players on their roster today.

Guys, you know right away can play for you in the NHL and start you down a path and at least allow you to sell some hope to your fans. It's not just a mystery pick coming this June and then you got to wait. And, you know, that's a hang up. That's going to be an issue. And I don't see Steve Eisenman just knowing his past bending on that one. And, you know, the problem is, too, you know, for those of us hoping to see this deal, just because it would be fascinating if it actually comes to fruition.

you know, Pierre Dorian in the back of his mind knows he doesn't have to do this deal by Monday as well. Right. So, you know, both sides might dig in there. It's just a game of chicken. That could be the hang up. But it's going to go down. If the trade doesn't happen before Monday, I'm guessing the conversations on this one are going down to 259, 59, just in case. I mean, if I was compiling a list of the people I would not want to get into a staring contest with here,

I think Steve Eisen would be very high on that particular list. So I don't envy Pierre Dorian in the situation. don't want to get on Steve Eisenman's bad side either, just ask Elliot Friedman. All right, let's take a quick break here to hear from a sponsor, and we're going to pick it up after the break. Buying tickets to sports and concerts can be complicated and confusing, but there's a better way to buy, and that's with Sea Geek. Seekeek's the smartest, easiest way to get tickets to every type of live event.

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really talked about the senators so far, although I guess they have been garnering the most attention around the league the past a handful of days. I don't know, let's talk about the Canucks, I guess, just because of the recent happenings with the Eric Grubanson situation, and, you know, Jim Benning obviously got his extension recently, just like Pyradorian, and I don't know, like, what were you hearing around the league in terms of that? Because it did feel like there was a market there for Good Branson, especially when you look at how few defensemen really are available. Do you think that, I mean, my opinions here are very on the record.

I feel like the Canucks really messed up here. What do you think when you see that? Do you think there was an actual market there and do you think the Canucks really passed up a nice return? The market would not have been as good as what they gave up to get them, which I think is a complicating factor when you're making that decision in the general manager's chair because it is admitting a mistake, you know, even if you don't come out and say it out loud. I mean, it doesn't take much for us to say,

hey, you sent this and this and this to Florida, but you got this back. You know, I'm not sure that he'd be at a number one pickback in that trade for Gibranston. In fact, I would expect not. But I would have expected a better return than Nick Holden, you know, got to New York Rangers. So it's not unreasonable to think he's getting a second rounder

and a prospect in that trade, you know, based on where the market prices seem to be today. And, you know, based on the fact that Good Branson, it still isn't that old. You know, there's some, positives there, I think that other teams would see in him to make that sort of deal. It's hard then for me to totally get

the rationale here. You know, I understand they feel he's going to be better than he's been and those types of things, but it feels a little like one of those half-pregnant situations where I don't understand why you're not selling anything of value if you're the Knoxamine. Basically, anything that isn't nailed down and isn't a future star like Brock Besser or whatever. I don't understand why.

why you would ever not be selling on those guys because you have a window to do it. And your team still is frankly not that good. And if you've just now paid a guy $4 million to be on your third pair, you're not getting better with that. So it's a tough one for me to defend. You know, I don't see where the value is in it for the Canucks, frankly. They didn't get him below a market.

Of course they can still trade him moving forward. there's no movement or anything involved in it. But the time to trade him now is when he's on an expiring deal, I think. And so it's a missed opportunity. It's, I just can't defend it. It doesn't make any sense to me, other than the fact that you have just expended future assets to get him. And I think it's going to look bad. But, you know, look at the Rangers just to, you know, draw a sort of parallel here.

You know, they gave up two draft picks to get Brennan Smith at the deadline last year. played pretty well for them in the playoffs. Granted, they gave him a big contract. And, you know, a little or halfway into the season, they sent him to the minors. Even though he's got three years and 17 million left or whatever his deal still carries, you know, that's admitting a mistake. And that's a team that's doing kind of what,

where Vancouver should be doing to me is trying to amass as many future assets, turn things around and blow up what you have. There's two ways of handling, you know, a mistake. And I feel like they've doubled down. on their error rather than, you know, just try to recoup what they could and dealing them now. Right. And that's the thing. You know, I understand from the perspective of, especially before he got his extension where if Jim Benning kind of trades Eric Good Branson for a much smaller return than what he paid for him, he's sort of admitting to feed. And that might be a tough thing to

sell to ownership to kind of come back with your tail between your legs. So I understand that. But then, like, you get the three-year extension. You're going to be good. They're not going to get fired for trading Eric Ed Branson. I feel like this is the time, if anything, to recoup. I heard it was a second and a fourth. That's a very appealing package of picks, especially considering the fact that he's an unrestricted free agent. If you love him so much, you can sign him on July 1st.

I don't think teams would have been lining up to throw this kind of money at Greganson. And it's tough because I think there's just a common misconception amongst people about how this sort of stuff works at a defense position. People will cite the fact that he's only 26. There's still so much time left. But just based on the fact of what we know, about aging curves and how a defenseman operate. There's obviously the rare exception here,

where a guy really comes into his own in his late 20s. But we know, I mean, 400 games in, I feel like I'm pretty confident saying Eric Grantson is who he's going to be at his full form. And that's not a very impactful player, as we've seen pretty much the team, whichever team he's played on, has been worse with him on the ice

than when he's not on there. So for all of the intangibles he brings, it's not lending itself to outscoring the other team, so I don't really see the argument for him. Well, and his ice time tells you what the coach thinks of him too. I mean, if Travis Green believed he was a first-paring defenseman, he'd be playing over 20 minutes a night consistently and getting used in certain situations that he's not.

You know, and I just don't see why you're paying a third-paring guy $4 million. I mean, even if you imagine a scenario where somehow the Canucks get really good in the next few years, you're not going to want that much money allocated to that spot either. and there's a loyalty factor. I'm sure there's all sorts of these other things. But really, and this is heartless, but it's true. I mean, to me, when you're managing a roster now in the NHL, I mean, so much of it is just business,

and it's just numbers. It's just, you know, what an asset is worth and what you can expect to produce and you're trying to maximize those things. I mean, I know that's harsh. There's lots of NHL players who I love as people and don't want to see them, you know, go through tough times in their life.

But, I mean, that's just the, reality and so this is not a good way to manage that asset there's just no way around it I can't I can't fully embrace the the line of thinking here I don't see them getting any value it's like even if Erica Branson is better than he is to right now next year somehow I mean yeah are they going to be a deal on this like is he going to be a six million dollar D getting paid for all of a sudden like I don't see that I mean to be honest it's a totally different situation but it's kind of one of the criticisms I had with the Jack Eichael extension. It's not that I don't believe Jack Eichael's an awesome player,

but the Sabers handed him a $10 million deal a year out from when his contract was going to expire. And what were they thinking it was going to happen this year? Like, unless he won the Hart Trophy this year, there's no way they're getting value on that. I mean, what you're hoping is that he plays up to that now. I mean, to me, there's always sort of risks involved in these type of things. I mean, look at the deal Nick Euler's got from Winnipeg a year out.

They took a calculated risk that, you know, by signing him now and by signing him, I believe it was $6 million times seven, by signing him that time, that by the time it actually came to doing that deal that he might be worth more, right? There's a calculated risk that I can understand in there. I just don't see it here for the Canucks that I'm with you. Trade him and bring them back. I mean, we've seen that happen numerous times around the league. And even though we know that these things aren't cooked up, wing, wick, nudge, nudge,

you could certainly have those conversations. Yeah, I mean, there's two components to being a GM in this league. I strongly believe there's the talent evaluation perspective, and I think Jim Benning's actually done a pretty decent job at that. And then there's just having a grasp of the risk and reward and opportunity cost when it comes to handing out contracts and getting picks back for players that might not be there long term, and that's what this ultimately comes back to. it just there's just so much risk and as you as you alluded to there's very little reward it's it's

difficult to see first off goodbranson getting so much better at this point even if you believe that he will which i don't that he's going to justify that contract and become a value and second of all what's the end game with this current team is in the next three years are they planning on competing for a stanley cup because it's difficult to see that based on the roster they currently have yeah they need like peterset or something to be just to become something special right away. And, you know, maybe that'll happen. I know he's a well-thought-of-player,

but, you know, I don't see this current roster being one we're talking about as being a contender in the next three years at any point. With some X-factors, maybe they win a draft lottery, and, you know, everything changed in Toronto when Austin Matthews showed up. Like, the whole thing looks different. Yep. All your other players then get knocked down one peg from where they need to be. Suddenly, Nazim Kudry isn't a problem number one center.

You're like, oh, he's a great number two center. There's like five teams here where if they get Rosmonds Dahlin all of a sudden Our expectations for what they're going to look like in the years of come is going to change very very dramatically Right and that's the amazing thing about being around a team That that just isn't in a good spot is Everything gets criticized at such a degree and then when you get the players in the roles that they should be And you can knock those players back in the lineup to a more suitable position everything just calms down You know, like Phil Kessel took so much heat in Toronto.

I know there's tons of stupid reasons for that that have nothing to do with hockey and just who he liked to talk to in the media and all that stuff. But you put him on Pittsburgh where he certainly doesn't have to be carrying the hopes of everyone on a team. And you're just like, wow, how would the Leafs ever trade that guy? Right. You know, you just, it's amazing how things get unfairly pinned on players. So I don't see Vancouver having enough of the real difference makers, you know, in their lineup, but that are at the right age to do it.

To me, they should be doing something like Ottawa is doing, or the Rangers and anyone but the Horvats and their young players that they have hopes that they can develop into more than they are trade them to get what you can and and do it that way. But clearly, you know, I think ownership too plays a role there about maybe not wanting to not wanting to endure some seasons where no one's going to the games and being really, really bad. I mean, well, I hate to break it to you, CJ. No one's going to the games right now and they've been very bad kind of unintentionally for the past four or five years now.

But they haven't come out loud and said, going to be bad. Isn't that more depressing, though? Like they're like unintentionally bad? Definitely. I mean, I think, and it's sort of cliche, but I like when, you know, senior executives of teams speak directly to their fan base and explain that why there has to be pain and whoever they term it.

I mean, that was a huge moment. I know living here in Toronto and being around the Leafs a lot when Brennan and he basically fired 30 people like every scout in the organization and Dave Nones and the coaching staff and, you know, right down the line. and came out and it was just like, this has not been good enough. We're going to lose, but we're going to come out ahead.

And I have to believe the paying customers and the people that love the team understood that because they'd been, a lot of them have been yelling that on Twitter for about four years and before the Leafs finally acknowledged it. You know, the Rangers have been proactive.

I mean, it's a funny strategy. They're still in a playoff race. Right. Well, and I think Henrik Klank was complicates that, right, based on how good he still is and his age. It's tough to see them really bought on him out while he's still playing like this, but I do appreciate the transparency and also,

I think most fans just want there to be like a plan that they can see and the team to execute it and stick to it regardless of what happens. And that's the thing. Like, you know, Michael Grabner for a second, Nick Holden for a third, we'll see what Rick Nash gets back, maybe even McDonough. And all of a sudden, it seems like at least they're kind of following through with a plan as opposed to kind of one step forward, two steps back all the time. Right. And they've already removed Derek Step on last year. And even, Antiranta, who's, you know, like they've started, they've been, and the Brendan Smith thing, I just, I'm gobsmacked by that, just that they so quickly admitted it didn't work and, and,

you know, he's gone. I mean, you have to have the support of ownership to do that. Not every GM has the currency in his own front office to be able to waste money, frankly, with his decisions like that and live to tell the story. But I like, I like that. You either have to sell it, you have a chance to win, or you have a plan to get the chance to win. And anywhere in the middle is no good.

And if you're just hoping all the time, I mean, hope is not worth anything. And, you know, most teams don't get lucky by accident. I mean, what's weird about the senators is they just volley back and forth between, like, awful. And then they have, like, these crazy stretches, like that hamburger run when they won, like, 20 games in a row somehow. Yeah. I mean, they've been an interesting organization the way things have played out there. But, you know, Vancouver will be interesting. but to me they're going to need to get lucky now

just based on it appears the direction they're headed. Maybe that's a little unfair. They definitely have some young players that are good. I mean, they're not totally hopeless, but... The problem is every team has a couple of good young players. Like, it's, yeah, enough about Vancouver. We spend, there's a lot of other stuff we could talk about. You live there.

I know you got the recency bias or whatever you would. It's also, the thing that frustrates me is this, there is a big time sort of, I mean, I understand, Fans, it's perfectly okay if you're just a fan of a team to just, you know, always stick with your team and every decision they make, just be like, oh, I'm sure there's some sort of logic behind this. And you saw that good Branson. The pushback I got, I was expecting some of it when I voiced my concerns about that. Man, there's, Canucks fans came out of the woodwork to, you know, tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. The Good Branson's actually really good. That, you know, Jim Benning sees something in him. And there's this big time appeal to authority that's not just unique to the Vancouver market. It's all around the league where it's, Well, this guy's the GM of the team. He must know exactly what he's doing. And I'm all for, and he might, but I'm all for just asking questions and wanting answers, I guess. Well, one thing I've come to learn over time in getting to know more people in front offices and conversations is that there are times GMs or assistant GMs like willingly knowingly make a bad decision because there's reasons why they have to do it.

And, you know, that's kind of a fascinating aspect that I'm not sure or nuanced. that everyone realizes is in some of these places these guys are in a daily struggle to keep their boss happy and it forces them to do things they shouldn't do. And that's a terrible place to be in for an organization because it's no way to live your life. But look, we know that Eugene Melnick, for example, is known to be all over his general managers. I think it was that way with Brian Murray for a lot of years and probably one of Brian Murray's skills, many skills, in addition was that he could manage that and still do his job and keep. Eugene at bay and not always have to blow everything up. I mean, it's, it's not easy. It's not easy

having to make the decisions. Some of these people have to make, but I don't think it's easy to manage those relationships. And I've had teams, guys who work for teams tell me, like, yeah, we did that because we had to. Like, they're, you know, the trade deadline's probably a good example. Some teams will make a deal just to show they're making a deal that we're trying or we're giving you something or they're building a little hope in their fan base and hoping it gets some buzz into the place i mean some places have to sell tickets yeah i mean it's it's not all just about the best way to win um unfortunately because as a fan i think you you ultimately want to support an organization that hopes to win one day so i know this is kind of a random and i guess a weird time to be

talking about because there's so many you know trades we could be talking about and and potential picks and players being moved but you know whenever i have the good fortune of having you on this podcast i like to sort of pick your brain a little bit because you're a guy who uh who knows a thing or and is on top of everything that's happening in the league. And I want to talk a little bit about Seattle and sort of tying it to Vegas and the league as a whole because I'm kind of curious how, what your thoughts are on how Vegas's surprising success

so far this year is going to affect the inevitable, you know, pre-draft, draft, and then first season process in Seattle when that does happen. First off, I guess, do you think there's going to be kind of a fallout from that in terms of both how the 31 teams in the league right now are preparing on their side of things in terms of getting all their ducks in a row

and making the numbers work and making sure they're not kind of getting caught like a few teams were this past year where they had to in a tough spot and they had to give away premium assets just to keep their team together and is the league going to position Seattle because I'm sure they're going to be pushing very hard to have at least six.

similar, if not even better, circumstances to build their team from the get-go. It's going to be so hard to be that general manager. Yeah. I mean, a great city to live in. Yeah. Cool opportunity to start a team from scratch. But given that there'll be the inevitable comparisons, given that ownership might have now outsized expectations of what's possible.

Because let's face it, one of the benefits for Vegas is that I don't think anyone expect them to be good. Even after seeing the expansion draft, I didn't see anyone come out and say, well, this team's going to be in contention for the president's trophy right away. Right. And where I think they're really going to suffer is, to me, where Vegas, with the benefit of hindsight, really did well is with some of the trades they made to stay off certain players. And we're able to get some first-round picks doing that.

My guess is in the next go-round, teams are just going to take their medicine a bit more, say take our guy and not give up extra assets to protect players not to the same degree we saw I mean I don't know off the top of my head how many trades they were but there was eight or nine trades as part of that process and they extracted a lot of extra picks out of that and I think still got some pretty good value and I don't because there was an unknown about that that expansion draft it hadn't happened in the cap air it hadn't happened in a long time where most people working the league had never gone through one right teams I just think will be less afraid now or just resign themselves

okay we're losing our fourth D and take them and there you go and my guess is some things have gone right here that no one could have predicted like getting William Carlson who somehow is going to score like 35 goals after never scoring 15 anywhere else at any level of hockey in a season

I mean and credit to him and credit to their scouts. That's a John Marcossoe also. Right. I mean Marsha So at least we knew was good Yeah. And Riley Smith, too, yeah. No, but you're right. I mean, that was just another situation where Florida's cutting money and they've,

and they're trying to undo some of the mistakes. And I'm using air quotes for our friends that are the computer boys out there. Mistakes of the previous regime, which weren't mistakes at all for the most part. I mean, everyone's got some errors. But, you know, I think that the current version of the Panthers aren't ahead of what the former version was. And then they had to lose two quality assets. But anyway, for Seattle, it's going to be tough to measure up to this. I mean, because they might have a bad team.

But certainly they're going to have the same rules at minimum. I hope they push for more. I mean, if they're spending $150 million more a couple years later, they have a case to make it more. Yeah, that'll be interesting because, you know, the GM's meeting's coming up in March, and I would think at least in an unofficial capacity, those kind of conversations are going to take hold there because, you know, now they're taking season ticket deposits in Seattle starting March 1st.

It wouldn't be a shock if the team is officially granted to them at the June Board of Governors meeting. So, I mean, this is going to become very real, very quickly. And if they get granted that real team, it won't be long before they're hiring a GM to start preparing these types of things. Yeah, you're right. I guess the most prime example of sort of just biting the bullet and taking a bit of a hit but not really compounding. that would be like the Minnesota Wilde this past time, right? Where it's like just so they didn't lose Matt Dunbar, Jonah's Brodine, they're giving up Alex Tuck and Eric Hala

and both those guys have been awesome for Vegas this year. And it's one of those things where you wonder if it would have been just better just letting Vegas take the guy to begin with and not not kind of making it life-tuffer on yourself. Well, in Columbus as well. I believe Josh Anderson would have been the most likely player that they would have had to expose and then they give up a first-round pick. I mean, they also took the- They probably would have lost Corpus off.

I imagine. Maybe. I don't know where the, I mean, clearly they prioritized defensemen. Yeah. The Vegas did. They took the maximum number of defensemen they were allowed to. But Columbus to guarantee, and they made that deal before the trade deadline because they didn't want it to impact anything they were going to do, you know, gave up a

first round pick, but also shed, you know, a contract that didn't want a round in David Clarkson. But, you know, then they get William Carlson, too. So, you know, that would have been nice to hold on to him. There's a few of those types of situations. out there. But I don't know Seattle's going to have that.

I just think there'll be less fear from the teams about what they're losing and they'll just make up their minds, all right, this guy's gone and there's nothing we can really do about it. And why even worry about giving her up extra draft picks to not? Yeah. Well, I just wonder, yeah, from the other team's perspective,

having gone through that once now, as you mentioned, like, obviously Vegas's success year, this year is a great story. But on the other end of things, like, I feel like if you were in the league, it would be kind of a bit of an ego hit, right? Like this team just comes in, takes your players, and all of a sudden finds all success,

and it's kind of like making everyone else look a little stupid. Like I understand the league set them up nicely to do so, and they took advantage of it not having been done in so long in such unique circumstances. But I don't know, it's for, you know, we like to think of people in the league running these teams knowing exactly what they're doing, and how does this then happen if everyone knows exactly,

what's going on with all their assets. There's a few unhappy owners out there. Yeah. That's fair. There's a few GMs that have heard like, we've been rebuilding for seven years now. Right. What's going on here?

I mean, the biggest Bennett and Seattle will still have this is not really having bad contracts. Right. Is that they haven't at least yet, I mean, we'll see how some, now they've actually started handing out some deals in six years to March and so looks good, but who knows? Right. Maybe if he goes in the tank and then all of a sudden, you know, they're in the same problem.

A lot of teams have found themselves in. But starting from scratch and not having the dead. weight, I think, is a huge advantage. You know, they've obviously built four lines that are good. There's not a huge drop-off from one to two to three to four in their lineup, which, you know, is a nice thing to have. And that won't last forever because the flip side of this is, you know, getting all these guys that were either on one more year on their deals or two is that you have to make decisions

on them. And, you know, I would think James Neal, for example, you know, who's not going to be traded by this deadline unless something really wacky happens, I guess never say never, but not likely you know he might walk away for nothing and then so you're going to start to see a bleed a little bit there David Perron as well having an awesome season yeah it's it's funny I've been trying to get a handle on that one I think there have been some there's well there have been some contract talks I wonder if he might get an extension you know the thing for Vegas is they don't want to give out long-term deals they don't want to sign guys to 36 because again those are the kind of deals that very quickly we go ah why did they do

that I mean they're they're really trying hard not to overcomit you know I think with the marshala so case I believe they took him to 33 with his contract, and that, I believe, in their minds is sort of an unofficial marker. They don't want to be making long-term commitments beyond that. Although, if they ever got Eric Carlson, maybe they'd stretch their thinking. Yes, it's a unique case, yeah. But, you know, Seattle, I think, is going to be cool. And, you know, there's a lot happening there already. I mean, Tim Wywicky does everything at warp speed and talking with him a little bit.

I know that, you know, he's anxious to get this off the ground. I mean, the question becomes, if we're looking at a potential lockout in September 2020, do you want to launch a team out of a lockout? I mean, that's not ideal. I don't think 1920s in play just with the building. So the timing of when the team's going to arrive will be sort of interesting. But there's a few people out there, too, that wouldn't mind that job. So I think that there's some benefits to building a team from scratch, too.

Yeah, it's not, I mean, listen, it's not that long of a drive for me. So I wouldn't mind. You throwing your hat in the ring here, Demetri? No way. I would never leave the PDO cast. We have too much fun recording these shows. Well, I know you've got a pretty varied and, you know, some big heavy hitters listen to this podcast. So I've had a few people approach me in press boxes and say, oh, I urge you on the PDO cast. So maybe if you keep lobbying, you know, someone out there's going to hurry. We'll see how it goes. All right. So we're at the one hour mark. Just one more quick thing.

Let's get back to the trade deadline since it's a more topical thing. What do you, beyond all the Eric Carlson stuff we just talked about? I guess no more senators talk. It can't include the senators. Is there any other sort of dominoes you're waiting to fall that would actually have, you know, intriguing ramifications for the league's power structure heading into the postseason?

Well, I'm fascinated by Nashville. And, you know, that seems like a team to me that's waiting in the weeds to do something big. You know, they're really making it known that L.A. Tovin, you know, just had a nice Olympics for Finland and is probably their top or second best prospect. that he's not available because they actually are weighing the possibility bringing him into play in the playoffs this year once his season the KHL is over.

So I don't know if maybe they can be enticed. I mean, this is what's great about the deadline is it's one thing to say all that two weeks out. And then you get here and you see what teams are starting to make moves and maybe you get a little bit impulsive. I mean, if you're David Poyle, he spent a long career here trying to win a Stanley Cup. He got within two games of it last year. In his mind, I think somewhere in his way. I think somewhere in his mind

if there's a different call on the P.K. Suban goal in game one and if there's not a quick whistle on a goal, potential goal in game six, maybe they won that cup last year. So I think that he wants to arm his team with something. Their team I could see making, taking a big cut at somebody. Maybe even Carlson, who knows, it seems like it's not. I mean, one thing about that team is they're really short on impactful defensemen. Well, I mean, yeah, they got a spot on their front.

fourth pair for them. It's true. Who knows? Maybe they're trading someone else. Hey, Tony Potato right now. It's like, hey, CJ, that's my spot. Well, all those guys are signed. That's what's interesting.

They signed Irwin, I believe, and Weber. So they, I don't know what they're doing. You just never know. I'm just saying if there's a surprise, and I could see the surprise coming from whatever Nashville does, because I really, they're similar to Pittsburgh and that they're incentivized to kind of throw caution to the wind a little bit and try to just try to give themselves the best shot at it.

I mean, once you go down the road, they're down where they've got Johansson by trade, they got Suban by trade, they got Turst by a trade. I don't know. I feel like you empty the tank, so maybe we'll see something there. Well, I had Arthur Staple on the show earlier this week, and one of the most interesting things he said was, you know, in his dealings with Garth Snow over the years, was all the stuff he'd heard that he couldn't report necessarily, but that he found so fascinating in terms of trades that were talked about

but never actually materialized, and I'm sure that happens with every team. And you're right. I mean, you could have an idea, we're good right now at this point on Friday afternoon and then come Monday. Let's say, for example, the Winnipeg Jets, who I imagine the predators will look at as one of their scariest competitors out West, makes some sort of splash trade and brings in another big gun, whether it's they convince like a Mike Hoffman type to come or something like that. And then all of a sudden, if you're Nashville, you're like, well, you know, we've got to

keep pace here. Let's try to do something ourselves. And really, that sort of stuff is fascinating because it is a bit of an arms race. And I think we could see that out east as well with Pittsburgh making their move now and then the lightning. And if they do so, I imagine the Bruins might not be necessarily content with just Nick Holden being their only acquisition and then do the Leafs do something now that they're down to 48 contracts. It's like all these moving parts. It's not just your own team. It's what's going on around you as well.

Well, and a lot of trades come together quickly. Yeah. You know, when you have a fit. And let's face it, there's a lot of discussions that have been happening over the year that have nothing to, you know, they're not imminent. and then all of a sudden teams get back to it because I know, you know, this team might like our prospect here and, you know, whatever, what have you. But that's still why the deadline resonates is that there's an unpredictability to it. Yes, there's also a formula on that we've often seen a ton of rental pieces for sort of fourth, fifth rounders kind of thing. But there's always a possibility something big happens.

And this year, as I started off, you know, by mentioning, I really feel like there's some different circumstances in the air than we normally have, you know, Max match ready could still move right you know guys we're talking about captains of teams here you know players that have you know in max's case has scored what the top five goals in the league the last five years combined yeah there's there's some blockbusters that are possible if teams get aggressive and you kind of a top heavy league again too like i don't know if we were to sit down it's probably something to do after the deadline you know for one of your your your shows but how many teams do we think can win the cup yeah like how many true

truly have a shot. I mean, I don't even know if do you put the Leafs in that category. Like, my point is, do you go even that deep in the Eastern Conference? And they're, yeah, is top six or seven team in terms of points in league right now in the West. I mean, we're looking at Nashville. Winnipeg. Winnipeg. See? Yeah, that's pretty tight. I mean, like Dallas, for example, but I think a lot of things would have to happen. Right. Dallas to even make the cup final. Well, and sometimes, I mean, Ottawa had that last year. where some things fell their way.

I picked them to lose in five to Boston in the first round, so what do I know? Don't ask me. But, you know, so, yeah, I think because you're talking about some real impactful guys that there are only a couple teams that probably truly believe they have a chance to win, and the fact that one of them might do something, and then the owner's calling and all that other stuff we're talking about, and reporters like me are bugging the, hey, what are you guys doing?

And, you know, I could just see us getting some fireworks by Monday, and let's hope they save a few of them for after eight Eastern. time before 3 p.m. Eastern times. Yeah, that'd be nice. So that we're all just looking at each other on set out there, Demetri. Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to it. So speaking of Monday and the set, you're going to be on with

Elliot Friedman and John Shannon, I believe. Yes, we're over in the corner. There we go. Are you going to be looking at your, you have an iPhone there, right? Yes. Yeah, so you're just looking at your iPhone the entire time, or are you going to be smiling for the camera? What are you going to be able to?

Yeah, mostly looking at my... Have you worked on a pose yet? Are you... No, it's funny. Do you want to borrow on my turtlenex? We were talking to... No, I'm going to leave that to you. You got that, you and Thomas Placanich.

I mean, maybe. And Yashin, don't forget Yashin. Exactly. I mean, a lot of distinguished European gentlemen. So, yeah, most of the time you're going to see the side of my head or the top of my head, looking down at the phone, I'm sure. You know, our job, really, our role is to try to get some of the news or confirm things that come out and, you know, do some quick analysis. But the main panel will handle the heavy lifting. And Darren Millard has the toughest job by far.

on our side of things, just having to traffic cop at all and to fill time when there could be four hours. There was one of my first years when I was on TV, the years are blending together. Four or five years ago, we didn't get the first deal until afternoon, Eastern. And we were literally on air live four, four and a half hours. And the first deal was like two guys you've never heard of,

even if your job is to know everybody in hockey. So you never know what you're going to get. But I'm hoping for some fireworks. And, yeah, there's an air of mystery about this one, More than normal, I think. Yeah, it seems like some actual, maybe nothing will happen. But if something does happen, it does. There's this vibe that it could be very impactful as opposed to being a rental player for a third or fourth round pick.

Well, do you think Eric Carlson is going to play in the Saturday 2 o'clock game for Ottawa? Imagine they hold them out? Yeah, I think, yeah. Stuff like that builds the drama, though, right? And they could easily hold them out and still not trade them. But just to be sure, I mean, who knows where things are. hope he hasn't been traded by then so that this podcast is still relevant. Let's hope that's the case. All right, TJ, let's get out of here. Let's get back to living in a life of fear where we're constantly checking our phones to make sure we don't miss out anything. And I appreciate you taking the time to chat during this really busy part of the year.

It's the best. Thanks for listening, everyone. All right, chat soon. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypediocast. Thank you.