The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 244: That's Jay Beagle Money!

Episode Date: July 3, 2018

Tyler Dellow joins the show to help discuss all of the spending we saw during the free agent frenzy, and the new fit for the notable players that wound up switching teams.  1:30 The impact of John Tavares going to the Leafs 2030 The Ryan O'Reilly trade 29:50 Bad teams treading water 44:00 The fit for James van Riemsdyk on the Flyers 48:00 Betting on James Neal and Paul Stastny 52:40 The lack of good defensemen in this class Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl defensive end, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and of course the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

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My name is Dimitri Filipovich. and joining me as my good buddy Tyler Delo. Tyler, what's going on, man? Not much, Dimitri. Are we here to talk about the big story? The big story. What's the big story? Chris Froome is going to ride the Tour de France. You always do this and I always say. At least it wasn't some random like pop culture reference from like the mid-90s or something that I don't understand. Yeah, no, I've got that. But it is a big deal. Chris Frum's going to ride the Tour to France. He's going to go for his record time fifth. And you can see it on sports net.

So corporate synergy, Dimitri. Corporate synergy. Yes, that's all the cycling we're going to do on this podcast. Although I remember last time we did it. I think it was like last summer we did a podcast together. And I let you like do it for like two or three minutes. And there was a surprising number of people that were like actually excited that we talked about it. Well, you know what?

I feel like there's like a secret. There's like cool secret cycling slash hockey Twitter. And there's like 30 of us. And we have a good time. And you know, whenever there's any cycling talk on a hockey podcast, people get excited. So I'm going to give my Tour de France pick here, Richie Port. That's where I'm putting my money.

All right. And for more cycling chatter, follow at Delo Hockey, not at Delo cycling for some reason. I'm trying to just expand horizons, Dimitri. Yes. Okay, so we are recording this on July 2nd. It's Monday evening. So we're going to try to post it tomorrow morning. So if any, there's still a little.

only a few guys really that haven't found new homes yet in free agency. Most of the top names have already gone off the market, so we can comfortably talk about that without fear of missing out on too much new late-breaking news. Let's start with the Tavares stuff because I feel like that's what people want to hear about the most, and it's the most relevant topic or discussion point for us. So where are you at with this?

Do you think, I mean, obviously, Lee's fans are very excited and Islanders fans are very demoralized and distraught and feeling all those negative emotions. But as sort of, you know, an unbiased party or someone who's in the media game or doesn't really have any ties to it, like, do you think this was ultimately a good resolution for the league in the grand scheme of things? I think it is. I think it is for a couple of reasons. Like, first of all, you know, I think it's good that stars want to go to like markets where hockey matters. And, you know, I know that the Islanders have a fan base that, you know, loves the team and, you know, they're probably feeling pretty down right now, so I don't want to

kick them or anything. But like, like, it's just, it's bigger in Canada. And, you know, like John Tavares now, he's on one of the biggest stages or he's on, he's on the biggest stage. And I think it's good for the league when like the, you know, big players are in big markets. And I also think it's good for the league when, you know, players are, you know, and we'll see if this is a trend but if if taveras is like the first you know of a group of players who's like you know i'm going to try and set myself up to win i'm going to go and try and you know not you know it's almost it's like they're rewarding the leaps for having done it the right way right like the you know they're like these guys are doing it well i want to be a part of that program i think that's good for the league

because i think it kind of creates pressure on other teams to you know basically up their game and so you know like it's the fact that this has happened you know when teams are doing long-term planning now. Like one of the things I can say is like, look, if we can put together a really good cheap young team, you know, maybe we can go out and land our own John Tavares in a few years. And I think that's, you know, that's a hell of an incentive for teams to kind of do what the Leafs did and do it properly. You're right.

It's always great to see a plucky upstart organization like the Toronto Maple Leafs finally have something go their way. Well, but it doesn't just have to be the Maple Leafs, right? Like, I'm sure we'll talk about the Senators at some point. But like, the senators could do a lot of people. Why would we talk about this end? I don't know. But you get my point, right?

Like, like, you know, there's nothing. There's nothing. Like, it's not like, it's not like Toronto is where they are now because they rained money on people. Like, they certainly had resources that other teams don't have. But at the same time, you know, they made a lot of good bets and they were willing to suffer while at the same time not totally burning it down. And they got some lucky breaks. But, you know, like it's, I don't know.

Again, you look at a team. like Ottawa, to me, there's no reason that Ottawa couldn't pursue something similar. It's just a matter of whether or not they're competent enough to pull it off. Yeah, no, you're right. I mean, obviously, having money is one thing. That's a nice luxury, but actually it doesn't really ultimately mean much if you're wasting it and you're not actually optimizing it. I, listen, I feel bad for the Islanders fans because this was a pretty crappy way to sort

of be dragged along and then left at the altar. It really felt like, you know, just following along with this in 2018 on Twitter throughout the whole thing. it like it's i feel like the process started off with optimism and then with each passing minute as we approached that deadline for them to sort of you know have pole position being able to offer the eighth year um as we approach that like you could just feel sort of the desperation start to slowly kick in and then realize what was happening and then him finally announcing it the day after it was it was pretty rough but i think you know any anger towards him and obviously whenever a player leaves

um there's going to be a lot of vitriol online but i think any anger towards him is misploid obviously it should be going towards the people pulling the strings for the operation. I mean, it's remarkable that, you know, he was with the Islanders for nine seasons. They made the playoffs three times. They want one series and ten playoff games total. Like, that's just staggering for someone who, you know, generally across the industry is considered to be one of the best, however many players in the league. And especially at such an important position playing down the middle, like the fact that

they weren't able to surround him with enough talent to not even win a Stanley Cup or compete for it, but just be a regular playoff contender is really kind of says it all. And, you know, listening to his press conference and reading some of the stuff, I know like Chris Johnson wrote about the Leafs pitch and what happened behind the scenes and hearing him talk about the process, like, forget the hometown narrative for a second. I think, and it being the Toronto Maple Leafs, I think what was clear to me was, like, you know, he's mentioning sort of the organizational hierarchy and the Marley's and them running stuff the right way and sort of realizing that, you know, being with the Leafs gives them a chance to compete for a cup next year, but also realist

for the duration of this contract, and I think that's what this boiled down to. So I understand why Islanders fans would be upset that he's no longer on their team, but it's hard to fault him for making the decision because just from a purely hockey decision for getting all the other factors, it does seem like it checks out for him. Yep, no, I agree with that. And it's, you know, it's funny. I'd say the crazy thing is that, like, I actually like the way the Islanders draft. Like, I think that they're a pretty progressive team when it comes to drafting.

I suspect that they're a team that pays attention to a lot of numbers and whatnot. And, like, that Matt Barzal pick, that is such a home run. Like, that is, that is huge. But they were just terrible at everything else for, like, the entire time they had them. Like, really, you know, outside of trading for Boychuk and Letty, it's just like, hey, we'll put these, you know, randoms with John, you know, with John DeVarres and see what happens. It was just like, you know, it was just, I don't know, it just seemed to me to be rudderless other than we have John Tavares.

And, you know, I don't know. Did you see that press release? Yeah, the one where Lou made note of individual performance rather than team success or something like that. Individual success, yes. What do you think? Was that delivered? Oh, I think so.

I think with stuff like that, I mean, obviously, you know, like the, when LeBron James left the Cavs the first time and the comic sans letter and stuff like that, like obviously that's much less subtle. But I think all of these press releases, like there's, there's a message. there, I'm sure of it. That's, I don't know, that's just, like, all due respect to the Islanders, but that's outrageous. Like, they just, you know, he's a great player. They really didn't put a lot around him. I think Barzal is a incredibly exciting player. Like, God, he scored 85 points last year.

So, like, they aren't bereft of things. And, you know, if I'm an Islanders fan, I really hope that the lesson that, I hope that the lesson that the franchise takes from this is that, you know, you can't just twiddle your thumbs forever. And, you know, when you get a chance and like, Zal be honest, like I think Barzal is a special talent. Yep. And, you know, he may, he might not be quite Tavares class, although, like, he is obscene how good he is.

But, you know, hopefully they don't, you know, hopefully they don't piss him away too. Like, that's, you know, that's really, I think, what you have to hope for at this point. If you're an Islanders fan, it sucks that Tavares is gone, but they almost get a bit of a do-over with a, you know, wildly talented young center. Hopefully there's some lessons learned by the organization.

They do, but at the same time, just like, you know, based on how bad they've been for this long of a stretch now, like there's not nearly enough there to show for it, right? Like obviously a guy like Barzal is a great building block. And I thought, you know, things really worked out for them at this draft in particular where they had a few guys fall to them in the first round. But like beyond that, I mean, based on how bad they've been and where they've been picking, like there just isn't nearly enough. So I don't think that's, it is a bit of a saving grace because if Barzal wasn't there and if it didn't hit that home run, like then it would just be so incredibly bleak. But at the same time, like where they go from here is tough. And if the early indications aren't very promising based on, it felt like they had a certain amount of money they were looking to spend yesterday. And when they realized they weren't getting Tavares, they turned to Val Filpula and Leo Komarov and re-signing Thomas Hickey.

And it's like, well, that doesn't seem like it's a great alternative. so I don't, it's not great right now. And I, listen, I don't blame Tavares for this because with all those teams that he was meeting with, I really did feel like for the most part, except for maybe Dallas, like, whichever one he picked would be a reasonable bet to be considered sort of a cup contender or sort of on the fringe at least, whereas if you went back to the Islanders, you know, barring some remarkable changes that they could have pulled rabbits out of the hat, like they would have been a playoff contender again. Like, I just, you know, it just seems like it was the obvious move for a guy who is signing a contract that's basically going to take him through the remainder of his productive seasons.

Yeah, no, I agree. Like, and it's funny, like, every time seeing the sharks. And the one thing, you know, that really I had a hard time with with the sharks is just that, you know, their core is so much older than Toronto's. And so if you're a player like him, you know, who's 20, so this contract will cover what, 20? Oh gosh, I'm blanking on his age now. what is he 28? Yeah, 28, I think. So, yeah, into his 30s.

Yeah, so, yeah, this will take up through 28 to 36 or whatever, or 28, whatever it is. It doesn't matter. But, you know, like Toronto's got a much younger core of players than the sharks do. And so if there's some age, you know, from his perspective, if there's some age-related decline at some point, you know, the Leafs are in a stronger position to deal with that than the sharks would be. So, yeah, no, it's from a hockey perspective. seem to me like it made a ton of sense. Yeah. Okay, well, let's get into that hockey perspective then.

So, like, stylistically, how the chess pieces fit here for the leaves will be fascinating. I mean, when you have Matthews Tavares and Cadry in some form down the middle, it's pretty hard to mess it up. But, like, what do you think the most logical line combinations are there in terms of just, like, skill sets and what, if you were running it, like, what the best way to optimize it would be. Would you keep Nylander with Matthew?

Matthews and maybe go Tavares and Marner, or do you see a fit there? Or is one of those things where you could just basically put all the names into a blender and you can't really go wrong? Yeah, I think you can't go wrong. That said, Tavares and Marner seems to make sense to me. I was thinking a little bit about their power play. And if you watch the power play, because like the Leafs have to redo their power play anyway, right? Because of JVR leaving.

I hope that's not a spoiler for anybody about something. But so they have to redo their power play. and, you know, it struck me that when you look at the Islander's power blade from last year, it was their main unit was Letty with Barzal on the left flank and Tavares on the right flank. And so you had each of then sort of on their off wing. And Tavares did move around a lot. Like he had a lot of freedom to kind of float around within that. But you wonder whether or not the Leafs, you know, wouldn't be maybe copying that.

throw a monitor in the Barzal spot, DeVarra's in the same spot, and then you've got Riley on the point, and then you can put probably Cadry in the middle and one other guy. So, you know, to me, I think it's, you know, it's, you can really see a lot of ways he's going to fit. And, you know, what's exciting is you're replacing the, the Tyler Bozac line with the John Tibera's line. Yeah, that's not bad.

It's not bad. It's, yeah, and assuming, you know, Cadre is probably going to get, continue to get more of the sort of defensive responsibility that basically, I mean, either Tavares or Matthews then will presumably get to play quite a bit against tertiary competition, especially defense pairings. So like, that's also one of those things where throughout his career, I imagine he didn't really get the luxury of that too much just based on who was surrounding him on the Islanders. Like obviously he got a bit of a reprieve last year with Barzal being there, but for the most part, like, it's, there's going to be a lot of, a lot of minutes for

those guys to feast on, uh, opposing defenses as well. Oh, sure. And this is, I don't know, this is controversial for reasons that escape me, but, uh, first line players play different competition than guys on the third line. Yes. And, you know, so for the Leafs, if you go look who Tyler Bozac played last year and you contrast it with who Austin Matthews played or who John Tavares played, it's much different. and if the Leifes want, they get to divide up those Bozac minutes between, you know, Tavares and Matthews this year.

So to me, like, that's going to be really interesting to see. You don't usually see a mismatch like that in the NHL where a team has that kind of depth that, hey, your third pair is going to have to eat some time against, you know, Matthews or Tavares. Like, that's going to be a real challenge, I think, for teams that are trying to beat the leaves. well yeah and obviously you know the quality of competition is the one component and then you get into the quality of teammates discussion as well that goes ties into that and it's like i don't know i i have to go back and look at the list but i feel like whether it's mad whether it's marner or nielander or who have you like there's a real strong argument to me that that player is going to be the most skilled linemate taveris has ever really played with right like it's like what's the list it's like matt molson paarento josh bailey like kailok pozo like with all due respect to those guys. It's a lot of guys who sort of got paid just because they played a lot with Tavares and produced in those minutes, but otherwise haven't had much

success in the league without him. So they played with Tavares, they had success, and the Buffalo paid them. That's the formula here. Yeah, so it's, it's, as an unbiased observer, I think it's going to be really fun to watch. Now, something I was thinking about was, you know,

just looking around the league, a lot of the teams that we'd consider contenders heading into July 1st didn't necessarily, I don't think, improve that much. You know, for most of those teams, it's like, they're pretty cash-trap at this point because if you're very good chances are, you're already paying a lot of good players, a lot of money,

so you don't have too much wiggle room. But, you know, just going up and down the list and it's like the Bruins who I think, you know, obviously beat the leaves in round one and would be considered to be one of their main challenges in the Atlantic. Like, their big addition was adding John Moore to a weird contract, like the lightning just extended Ryan McDonough, and we can get into that a bit later, but they didn't necessarily add anyone to kind of help boost them up a bit more.

So you go on and down the list, and it's a lot of teams either just kind of stood pat or even got a bit worse, whereas the Leafs are the one kind of clear, obvious team that got significantly better yesterday. Yeah, no, I think that's a legitimate point. I think it's hard to get better in free agency. Right. Just because, like, it's, you know, it's a place to find complimentary players. And, like, frankly, you know, it's basically, it's a place where if you're getting

into a bidding war for a player, you're probably not going to do well. So, you know, like, it's, it's, you know, so in Toronto's case, you know, they went out and got a guy who's a legitimate first line center. I just, I, that's not the norm for free agency historically in the NHL, although, you know, hopefully that, that changes. But, yeah, no, I didn't believe it took a huge. step forward. I'm not sure anybody else did. So what do you think about the fact that they're currently listed as the favorites for the

2018-19s down the go? I don't know. Do I do what I, would they be number one on my list? I'm not sure they would be at the same time. You know, the league's wide open these days. And, you know, so, and when you factor in that, you know, maybe you think Winnipeg's better, but who's going to draw more action from the casual better, right? Win a pig or the Leifes. And, you know, when you factor that in, it doesn't really surprise me. You know, I think Toronto is probably, you have to have them on the list of teams now that could win the cup next year.

You know, they're maybe not quite a number one for me, but they're certainly up there. Yeah. Yeah, well, it makes sense. Obviously, people are pretty excited, and betting odds generally work and sort of they want to get as much action as possible and people are jumping on that. So, yeah, I don't know. It's going to be fine. I'm really excited to watch them.

I know that. I know that's not necessarily a hot take or a bunch of well-informed analysis, but I think that they were incredibly fun to watch before. And now adding Tavares, it adds a whole new wrinkle that's going to, I'm going to try to watch pretty much every single one of their games next season. Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's going to be fantastic to watch. Like, there's so much I'm excited to see next year about Toronto.

And, like, you know, like the matchup thing, I think is just going to be unbelievable. Like, you don't get to see a Tavares or a Matthews, you know, getting significant minutes against third pairs and Toronto's going to be able to do that next year. So it's going to be a lot of fun to watch. Okay. Let's take a quick break here to hear from a sponsor, which we will put in after the fact. I know you love pointing out when we come back from break that I didn't actually do the read while we were on the call. But we're going to take a quick break here and then we will talk about some of other signings and the Ryan O'Reilly trade and all that good stuff on the other end of things.

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And we're back, the magical podcasting. What were you selling? Seat Geek. They've been a loyal sponsor of the podcast. So hopefully if you're going to any concerts or any baseball games or anything this summer, hopefully you see you can use the promo code PDO. Let's talk a bit about the Ryan. This is why you don't want to talk with the tour to France because there's no seats.

Exactly. Yeah. It's just all anyone can just stand there. So that's what this is. This is Seeky shutting down an exciting discussion, even though it's a fine product. It's all about the money, man. Unlike John Tavares, I can't be taking hometown discounts here and less money. Like I'm I'm whoever can pay me I'm going to sign there so uh all right well you speak then help

demetri out so what's up next um so we're going to talk about ryan o'reilly um right so for those that missed it it was basically Patrick bergland Vlad Sabotka uh tage thompson who the blues took 26 and 2016 and next year's first and a 2021 second rounder um what were your thoughts on this trade I've given it probably way too much thought as I do with this stuff. It ultimately there's more important things to think about in life. But I've been crunching it from every angle since it broke. So I'm curious to hear what you have to say about it. I like Tage Thompson throwing bombs at the blues.

That was cool. Yeah. On my list of where the blues season went wrong last year, Tage Thompson not getting enough respect. and responsibility and opportunities was very low on the list. Yeah, no, I think that was good. That was very, very NBA up the, you know, up the animosity, entertainment value of the product. I don't know.

What did I think about it? I didn't really think Buffalo got much back, to be honest. And particularly when you factor in that they're taking Berglund and Sabacca and like, they're guys, but they're guys who cost money. And I don't know, maybe like we'll see what Buffalo does if they're going to spend them off or keep them. But, you know, I don't really understand where Buffalo thinks they're at with their rebuild. And, you know, I don't like selling guys after a terrible year all around. Like Ryan O'Reilly, I think, is better than what we've seen in Buffalo. And I think the problem with selling guys after years like this is you just get taken to the cleaners.

And, you know, it's hard to get better losing trades. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's interesting because obviously they're still, they still see them. is in that sort of asset accruing phase and sort of still part of the early stages of the rebuild, although I'm sure their fans aren't very excited to hear that. But like I like the perspective of, you know, they're getting as many kicks as they can and they can and they got a bunch of assets here. But it doesn't really seem like any of them are super premium assets.

Like that blues pick, I think the blues will be a contender to make the playoffs. And that could be sort of in the early 20s. Now I know that if the sharks also make the playoffs, the sabers are going to have three first rounders, so potentially you could get creative there and maybe make a package and move up and get something in that regard. But like, it's just from the blues perspective, like they got a really good player here.

They didn't really take on any extra money. Like O'Reilly's contract runs longer, but at least for the next two seasons, Subotka and Berglund come out to like 7.35 on the cap. and O'Reilly's 7.5 by himself. So it seems like a perfectly reasonable bet for them to make there. And like I said, they didn't really give up any premium assets. Like I'm not a huge prospect guy, but I know that people are very high on guys like Robert Thomas and Jordan Kairu and a few other guys.

They've drafted over the years and they didn't really have to give up any of those guys to significantly improve their main roster. So it's kind of a slam dunk for St. Louis. And especially after, you know, I was thinking the past two years, they were an interesting team because of the deadline, and they were on that sort of playoff precipice, and they traded away Shaddenkirk two years ago and then Stasney this year for picks, and it was a very uncharacteristic move for a team that could make the playoffs to be a seller,

but they were sort of thinking ahead, and now they cashed in some of those draft capital chips to make this trade. So I think for Blues fans, it's pretty exciting that they're actually kind of working on going for now a bit and sort of improving their main roster as opposed to consistently,

just pushing it back and waiting a few years. Yeah, I agree with that. Like, you know, one of my, one of my things with the NHL is, you know, when you get a world-class player, you can't just be waiting for tomorrow forever. And, you know, St. Louis has been doing that for a while with Teresenko. And, you know, it's, it's, I like to see teams being aggressive when they're in that situation.

So, no, I like it for the blues. I like the philosophy. That central division is an avatar, though. Yeah. Yeah, it's going to be tough. that's why I was saying like when I was talking about that pick and where it's going to be in the first round. I was like, oh, they're obviously going to be a playoff team. I like their team on paper.

But then I was thinking about that central division. And it's like very conceivable that they could miss out just because it's going to be an absolute slugfest. Oh, sure. Like, you know, Winnipeg in Nashville. I think you have to, you can probably write in with a pen. And then it's going to be a knife fight for the final two or three spots. Yeah. Well, for the sabers, like, it's, it's weird because it just, it felt like they didn't have

a lot of leverage just because it seemed like they were so committed to getting rid of Ryan O'Reilly, which was interesting to me because, like, coming back with him on their roster next year would be perfectly fine if I was running that team, but it seemed like for whatever reason they sort of backed themselves within his corner. And then with that deadline for a signing bonus coming up as well, it's like the market was sort of limited to, I presume, just based on the reports we'd heard, like the haves for some reason were really interested and the sharks after they missed out on Tavares. but otherwise, like, the list of teams that would have been in the hunt for Ryan O'Reilly, in this case, were very limited.

So, like, from that perspective, I guess they got a decent return. But the alternative of just standing pat and going into the season with Ryan O'Reilly in your roster seems like it would have been a more appealing option, all things considered. Yeah, like for me, I look at Buffalo. And a huge part of their problem is they can't score. And I, you know, with them, I almost think it's a tactical thing. And I'd rather, you know, and maybe they've done this. like, you know, we don't know what they've done. But if I was them, I would be engaged in a massive

project or project to try and figure out if our team does something differently that is preventing us from generating quality chances at five on five. Because, you know, it almost seems to be like it has to be. And if that's right, like, even like Jack Eichael, like what is like, Jack Eichol's like on-ice shooting percentage has been horrible for most of his career. I believe. I'm sort of speaking off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure that that's, that's a bit of a knock on him. So, you know, in that case, I think it's bigger than just one player. And when you start moving out players to deal with that, I think you can get yourself into a bad spot pretty quickly.

Yeah. And, you know, it would be very interesting to see how O'Reilly does next year and how Berglan does and how Sebaqa does. And then we'll see if Tage Thompson's anything. Like, he was always a straight player to me when he played college. Like, he scored in the power play a lot of his draft year, but not another situation. So I don't know.

It's, it's, we'll see. We'll see how Buffalo does. But at some point, they have to turn the corner, you would think. Well, I imagine, like, Mike Yo is pretty excited now. Obviously, he gets O'Reilly and they went and spent some money on Peron and Tyler Bozac. And all of a sudden, there's some interesting ways they could go about filling out their forward depth chart.

Like, you mentioned how O'Reilly's going to do next season, I imagine if he plays with Teresanko and Schwartz up front, he'll do very, very well. And at himself as a sort of a playmaker, getting the puck to those guys would make a ton of sense. But at the same time, Like they really sort of got way more out of Brayden Shen than I thought they could last year playing in those minutes. And I wonder if maybe the better like positive value added perspective would be to just play O'Reilly with, I don't know, a guy like Alex Dean, presuming he can stay healthy and have those guys soak up a bit more of a defensive lawyer into minutes.

I don't know. It's, I'll be curious to see how that plays out because I imagine like, O'Reilly's been one of those players where I had a few people, because I noted that I was very high on him yesterday. And a lot of people came back to me and they were like, what am I miss? here. You know, he doesn't obviously put up a huge counting stats. And I was like, well, just look at who he's sort of played with and his deployment. And it makes sense that he's provided a bunch of value in more subtle ways than just, you know, putting the puck in the net just based on the circumstances he's played in.

So obviously, if he gets to pass the puck to a Vlad Tarasanko next season, I could see him just putting up a bowload of assists and all of a sudden people being like, oh, well, Ryan O'Reilly, what a fantastic player. Yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's a strange one for me. and we'll see where Buffalo is going, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around what they're doing. It's,

that's a team that's got some distance to go, I guess. Yeah. Well, I imagine Sabres fans are still probably pretty excited about Rosam's Dolly. And so I feel like even if they're not too happy with this trade, it's still been a good summer for them. Yeah, yep. No, that's true.

That's true. They've had a pretty good couple weeks. So my next note here on our talking points is, bad teams showed us yesterday why they're bad. And I think that was, I didn't add much more than that. I wrote these notes yesterday, but I think I was alluding to the Canucks. So let's talk about whatever the hell they did yesterday because it was a quagmire all right.

It was a very interesting set of decisions that they made, just throwing a bunch of money and more importantly, a bunch of term to Jay Beagle and Antoine Roussel continuing you mentioned how was it yeah you mentioned I don't know if it was the Islanders or Sabres but I guess both apply kind of the rudderless

directionless team building philosophies they've had for the Canucks that would apply as well because for a team that's been really really bad and deeply entrenched in the rebuilding phase they don't really seem to grasp where they're at organizationally

with some of these moves yeah it's it's it's incomprehensible to me what they're doing. Like I don't, you know, and I sort of wrote this at the athletic and maybe I wasn't clear enough, but like when you're a team in Vancouver's position,

like really, you should just be offering one-year deals to free agents and whoever will take your one-year deals, that's who you get. And, you know, like it's one thing if you can get it to Vara's fine, you know, go nuts. But, you know, like Jay Beagle is not a building block. Antoine Rousel is not a building block.

Your team is going to stink next year, whether you have those players or not. those players are going to age and decline over the next few years. So even if the Knoch's plan comes to fruition and they get good, they're still going to have these players then who are sort of have declined because they, you know, they sign them to multi-year deals now. Like, you know, why not say to the, you know, the free agent and say, look, you know, whoever wants a one-year deal come talk to us.

And, you know, we've only got so many one-year deals to hand out, but we're prepared to, you know, pay a little more to do it. and then you're in a position where you know you can trade them at the trade deadline if there's interest and but just really you're not sort of walked into these players as as they go along like you know Vancouver should want to get the 2020 version of jay g beagle if they need a jbagle they don't you know like whoever he is in 2020 not not the current edition but just older um so i i just i don't understand the thinking like i don't understand like there a meeting in vancouver where they went out went around the room they're like you know how much

better does j bigel make us next year and someone was like oh we're a playoff team with them and we're 70 point team with that like it's just it it baffles me that they would that they would do this and like the attrition rate on those guys is brutal and so i i understand the thinking i don't understand what they're doing it's just it's just it's strange it's very strange stuff i like that uh you are one of the few people in this world that is like as viscerally upset by some of the decisions this team makes as I am. I'm not sure what would be a more alarming reality. If moves like this, you could kind of look at it from two perspectives.

One is they're basically just signaling. Like, we are not planning on being good over the next couple of years. And that's why we're going to give Jay Beagle and Anton Rousseau four years and Sam Gagne three years. And we're just trying to fill out its roster and sort of have NHL players filling these spots. And, you know, we're going to take our time. Or if they actually believe, that, you know, the Jay Beagles of the world are going to come in and turn this thing around

with their culture-changing attitude and stuff. Like, I guess the latter would be more concerning because then that's just pure, you know, lack of personnel evaluation, but both are very troubling if you're a fan of this team because, you know, they had a positive draft and people are excited about some of the guys they took, but just all of their main roster moves just suggest that there isn't really much of a plan and they can't really think ahead beyond what's happening this season. And that's very alarming when you're building out an NHL team. Yeah.

No, I don't, you know, I don't know, I don't know what they think. I don't know, you know, I don't understand it at all. I understand, like, I can understand the idea of wanting to sort of insulate your younger players and wanting to have players around who can do the dirty work. I get all that. that makes a ton of sense to me but I don't get is is you know

like signing these guys for turn like you know it's it's almost to be like it's like you have to earn right to do that and when you're a bad team like you know you say who can we get on a one year deal and and that's I don't understand why the Canucks aren't doing that like it's just it's unfa

to me well the way that will conucks run the team is I think like this Benning Linden regime would have worked better, like, before the internet, because they say stuff sometimes that it feels like they're not aware of the fact that people can, you know, find old quotes they've set online or fact check stuff. So like, you know, they made a point of saying that they're, you know, this was the market for these guys or in past instances where they haven't been able to trade players or get value for them. They're like, oh, there's no market for that. And it's like,

it just, it's insane to me that they suggested that the market for Jay Beagle was a four-year deal because I'd be very curious to know, A, who they were competing against, and B, you see some of the other contracts that are signed. And like, other than, I guess, what the Islanders did by giving Leo Komarov four years, it's a lot of these guys were going for one or two seasons that are, you know, either equivalent or even better options. So, like, it just felt like they were kind of bidding against themselves, which leads me to believe, honestly, that they genuinely do believe that, you know, in their pro scout meetings, assuming they do even have pro scouts, that they think that Jay Beagle and Antoine Roussel are going to be the difference

between what they were last season and being a much better team. And I just, I think that's flawed logic. Well, I almost wonder, like, I wonder, like, do they know that, like, I don't know, like, do they know, you know, sort of generally what kind of contracts in terms of length guys like Jay Beagle will get? or or because and I was thinking about this too like can you think of any guys like sort of fourth line guys who penalty kill who got four year deals recently like in their 30s like Matt Hendricks yeah okay Leo Comber yeah okay sure but but other than that like Matt Hendricks you remember when Nashville signed Matt Hendricks and Eric Nystrom yeah how that worked out for them yeah they traded Hendricks you know and and you know there's you know things to like well Matt is a hot mad Hendricks is a hot man player but but he was they traded within you know a few months and as I recall I think they just ended up buying oh nice memory went on waivers or like it was it was and I can't think of any like four-year deals for players like this in their 30s can you like I'm like I'm like I'm

like I'm going to look into this because I'm like who does this yeah it really does feel like you know this regime is just kind of on its own island where they're not like communicating with the rest of the hockey world so they're just like operating in their own headspace it's like oh yeah sure yeah jb gil he just won a cup he should go for uh four years let's bring them in and uh lock this down and it's like no just feel the market like talk to other executives see what's going on in the past like look at recent history like there's no need to do this and you know we're beating up on the conucks here but i thought some of these other teams too like the red wings for example i think it's fine on the canucks i i just i don't understand what

They're like, I don't know. I, you know, and like, like, I get the idea, you know, you can't have a team of like 23, 19 year olds. I get that. But, you know, you need to draw limits for yourself. And, you know, they haven't done it. So, I don't know, we'll see what they do this year. But my prediction is they're a bad team and they've got these guys signed for quite some time.

And they'll find they're difficult to move if they want to. Well, the best part to me here is like, I don't have it up in front of me right now, but I believe it was like a one year like 600,000. thousand dollar deal or something like that but you know so the canucks poach j beagle from the capitals and the capitals go out and just take nick doubt who was on the conucks last year for that one year six hundred thousand dollar deal and i i'm very curious i think he's probably going to be on their fourth line next year i'm very curious to see what the uh difference in production between those two guys is because i imagine it will not be that high and it's just you know it's just a great example of uh

among other things why certain teams are in the position that they are but like listen like the conucks The Red Wings, like, it's certain stuff, like, why are you signing Jonathan Bernier to a three-year deal if you're the Red Wings? Like, what is your plan? I know you tweeted about this, and I think it's a great point. Like, if you're the GM of these teams and you're pitching the owner on signing these paychecks, like, what's the end game? That's the thing I always come back to. Like, the Blackhawks is a great example as well. You know, they bring in Cam Ward and Chris Koonitz.

I guess those are one-year deals. but like who had a meeting where they were like let's sign brandon manning to two years five million and then what was their logic for where that's ultimately going to get them yeah no i i i agree i have a hard time you know it's yeah i think the salary and demetri a lot of this comes back to the nchel salary structure which i think is all screwed up um you know the nchl salary structure is, I think basically middle class guys make too much money. And, you know, so if you're a team that's a contender, fine. You know, you have to live with that.

But if you're a team that's just rebuilding, like, why, why get into that game? You know, like those guys, you know, they're not, they're not, like, is, you know, maybe you spend a bunch of money and you go from 73 to 78 points. Like, what's the point? And that's really where, you know, like, you know, the connects are out lavishing money. on Jay Beagle and Antonin Roussel, do I do them play defense? And I appreciate that there were no defensemen out there. But like, boys, keep your powder dry, you know?

Yeah. Well, maybe it's one of those things where, you know, we typically surround ourselves with certain like-minded individuals in terms of like Twitter and who we talk to on a daily basis. So maybe it's not an accurate representation of the fan base. Some of these teams are appealing to. Like, I'm sure there's people in Vancouver that are very excited that the Kinnock's got Jay Beagle and it's quite possible that

this, you know, the GM is trying to elicit some sort of a reaction like that and people are like, oh yeah, like, Jay Beagle's going to come and it's going to be great. Antoine Roussela, I'm excited. You know, the Red Wings brought back Thomas Vanek and have Mike Green like, yeah, that's great. Like, so maybe

it's quite possible that, you know, we are a minority that's actually thinking about this stuff from a bigger picture perspective as opposed to just being excited that our favorite team is doing something and has a press release to tweet out there. Well, I guess, but I don't even, yeah, I don't know.

I'd love to know, you know, if teams have done any research on that and whether or not the Jay Beagles of the world sell tickets. I can't believe he does. I can't believe, you know, and obviously, you know, people like you and me are in a, are in a, you know, you're in a bubble because, you know, you tend to talk to people to think of what being the same way as you. But I just, I don't understand, you know, that I can't believe that anybody, you know, is, you know, and like Antoine Roussel as a player,

but I don't think he's bringing buzz to the market. No. No, definitely no. No, I don't know. The Antoine Rousel jerseys are not flying off of, off the shelves at, at Rogers Arena. I feel comfortable saying that.

Okay, enough about that. It's depressing me. What is it? Did you like Thomas Vannick getting a no trade? I thought it was funny. I thought like that. I like the, I like the comedic aspect of it.

Yeah, I mean, and listen, it was only a one-year deal, and he was a perfectly fine and productive player last year. Like, I'm okay with that. Like, if they gave Thomas Manick a three-year deal, I'd be like, why are you doing that? But, you know what, it's hard to get too upset about that one. I don't know, but like when you brought back Tyler, is it Tyler Mott? Is that he say his name? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

For the Canucks, yeah. Yeah, like when that was the return. Yeah, at the last trade deadline, like, doesn't he kind of come with a de facto no trade at this point? Yeah, but that leads me. I don't know about that. I think that leads me to believe, honestly, just based on the market we see at the trade deadline, that the Canucks are just really bad at that stuff and talking to other GMs, because you and I actually did a show right after the trade deadline,

and we discussed this at length, but I still find it impossible to believe that a team wasn't going to give them a third or fourth round pick for Thomas Manick, and he was perfectly productive for Columbus last year. I know they lost in the round one, but it's like, I think the Red Wings will be able to get something more than UC Okanen's expiring contract and whatever Tyler Maud is for Thomas Vanek assuming he's still a productive like 20-ish goal

score next year for them. Yeah, it's funny, eh? I'm making my little jokes, but he had 56 points last year. Yeah, he was fine. Honestly, like I watched a lot of him in Vancouver. Like, he did really well. Brock Bessor seemed to really like him and I do think there's a bit of value to that and he was perfectly

fine in Columbus. Like there's much worse players that we've talked about on the show that got more term and more money. than him so in the grand scheme of things i think that's perfectly fine one but well no and i will agree with you demitri like that is to me what teams like detroit should be doing like your deals one year deals and you just you can't be getting tied to guys like this and you know Detroit at least got it right with vanick you know Vancouver had uh some other things going on yeah okay enough about Vancouver let's talk about uh would you rather start with jvr or james neal or paul sasneil give you your pick of those

three for which ones we talk about first. Let's talk about JVR. All right, let's do it. I know you're a big, you're all about the powerplay. Power plays are interesting. Yeah, I think you talk more and do more articles and research on powerplays than anyone out there. So I'm curious because I know we sort of had a similar initial reaction to this,

and it was sort of what does this mean for the future of Wayne Simmons in Philadelphia? because it does seem like that's a bit of a skill overlap in terms of what those two guys do best, which is hang out of front of the net and kill it on the power play. Yeah, and it's interesting because who do you think is a better player five on a five? Like, who do you prefer? Assuming Simmons is healthy, I would say Wayne Simmons. Really? Yeah, I do think he has more utility.

It's weird. Like last year, obviously his numbers were off, and I think a lot of that was like, I believe he got injured in training camp or something and needed surgery. and for some reason played through it all year. And it sort of didn't line up with the rest of his recent career. So I don't know, like they're comparable, but I don't know. You value JVR a lot more than him? Yeah, I don't know.

Simmons has always kind of, I've been with him at five on five. Like obviously he's a, you know, he's a monster on the power play. And I think he's, it's crazy. Like when you look at the leading power play goal scores of the decade, like, you know, it's like a betchkin and then Simmons. and like he is a he is a legitimate you know superstar when it comes to scoring goals

on the power play so it's weird to me that they would bring in a guy whose skill set overlaps with that in JBR so I'll be interested to see what happens I do like Simmons I think he's a really good penalty killer and I think that was kind of a surprise to learn like it's kind of funny eh like L.A. trades into Philly at that point he wasn't really a powerplay guy

Philly sort of like experiments with him on the powerplane And it's like, oh, this guy's a huge stud on the power play. And then a few years later, they're like, huh, I wonder if you can kill penalties. And actually, it turns out he's pretty good at that too. So it's a very interesting thing to me. I'm really interested to see what happens with Simmons, because to me, it seems like Philadelphia plans to move on. Which I don't blame them for considering the fact that, you know, he's either, he's getting into his 30s if he's not there already. And he has one year left on his deal, right?

So it's and just based on his sort of player and body type, like I, I would not want to be on the hook for giving him a long-term deal in free agency when he hits it next summer. So it seems like this is a bit of insurance there. I mean, at 5-1-5, it makes perfect sense. Like you can bump Simmons down to the third line. I think Van Rheamsdike, just thinking about him as a player, like, he is, he is a bit one dimensional. Fortunately, that one dimension is a very useful one when it comes to playing hockey. but like I think he'll fit in with a guy like Jake Vorichick for example seamlessly because what Vorichick does incredibly well is carry the puck through the neutral zone and act as a

playmaker in the offensive zone and I think Van Rimsdyke is sort of like when you get into that offensive zone he's a monster I don't really see what else he brings to the table outside of that offensive zone so putting him with a guy like that I think will be really able to optimize the skill set. Like if you just look at how Toronto used him, for example, I don't think is an accident that he was so productive last year when he was playing some very carefully, very carefully massaged minutes by Mike Batap. Let's say that.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I buy that. But it's interesting, right? Like, to me, like, you know, guys like that are flawed players. But at the same time, if you can put them with people who can take advantage of them, I think you can kind of really extract some value there. So it'll be interesting to me to see what Philadelphia does to get value in a GDR at 5-on-5. Yeah, me as well.

And what happens with Wayne Simmons, whether it means he's moving or whether they're just going to play this out and see what happens next summer. But I think, like I said, assuming he's healthy heading into next year, I love him as a player and he'll be a very valuable contributor to them. The James Neal won. So he's turning 31 and he just got a five-year deal, which is obviously alarming at the same. same time, you know, last year I feel like we were really clamoring for the flames to get a player with his skill set to play in their top six when, you know, their underlying numbers are really good, but the results weren't there because of some of the players they were using. And it felt like, man, they really could have used the James Neal type. Now, obviously with the five-year price tag,

it's a bit rich. But I don't know, like, I think he, assuming he doesn't fall off a clip immediately, I think that he helps the flames quite a bit, especially from that perspective of matching skill sets with some of their guys in the top two lines. Yeah, well, Calgary really needs to find a way. Are me? Am I boring? What's going on? No, no, no.

Hey, I was up at 6 o'clock riding my bike, Dimitri, and it's a billion degrees here. So I'm tired. No, I think Calgary needs to find a way to turn some of the big possession. from the Backland line into goals, and they didn't do it last year. So, you know, it's, it's, and this goes back to the JBR thing, right, in terms of, you know, putting guys in positions where their skill set complements the skill sense of others. And I wonder if Neil will be a good fit with those guys because they can move, you know, say, you know, say he's playing with Kachuk and, uh, and backland, you know, he can move the,

they can, they seem able to drive possession. Can he help take advantage of that and put bucks in that? I like that a lot. That was sort of my first thought as well because I think the natural inclination is to be like, oh, you know, he's, especially with Ferland Gone, James Neal could be playing with Good Joe and Monaghan on the top line. But I actually, like I like Michael Froly quite a bit as a player, but he is just such a disaster when it comes to shooting percentage and actually converting some of those opportunities.

And if guys like Kachuk, especially who was a great playmaker in Backland, who are both possession monsters, will have the pucked after equally in the offensive zone, have it pair and then with a guy who can actually convert those chances into goals seems like a foolproof strategy. So I'm all for it. I think this is, I guess it's just, this is like sort of the price of doing business in free agency. That's why you said at the top. Good teams typically are the ones who are making big changes at this time of year because you will have to pay that premium and that tax. And you're going to generally get into the uncomfortable spot of giving a James Neal a contract into his mid-30s when you don't think he's going to age that well into them.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I agree with that. Which is why I was surprised to see that Paul Stasney only got three years. I thought he was a candidate to really not get overpaid, but get too many years tacked on to the end of his deal. You know, he's turning 33, I believe, this year. And after... He's no Jay Beagle. Well, it's true. It's true.

He really is no James Beagle. Yeah, it's, especially after Tavares went off the board, like, he was very clearly the, the best center available and with teams looking for a guy like that i thought he could get more but listen like three years six point five per seems to make sense and for the gold knights he slots in as that second center and that they could really use now i know they lost peron and neal but i'm okay with them walking away from them like what do you would what do you think about that fit of stasny on the on the knights and are you surprised that both he didn't get more and that the jets didn't put up more of a fight to retain him based on how good he looked at

to close the year up for them last year? I don't know. The Jets are going to have some salary cap issues over the next little while. Like they got a lot of guys who are going to get paid. They got Blake Wheeler to deal with. I think the Jets are just, you know, you can't pay everybody. And, you know, so I don't hate that from Winnipeg's perspective. You know, we'll see how he does from the perspective

of the Golden Knights just because they aren't you know like if you look at their team last year the first line is really the big producer of five on five value and you know we'll see if Stasney at this stage of his career can drive a second line and be a positive value contributor I think that you know that's you know we'll see if he can do it

that's a tall that's a tall task like you know he had a good year in Winnipeg but he was also able to play down the lineup Yeah, yeah, it helps playing with Nick Eelers and Patrick Kleiney. I'm sure that'll make a bunch of guys look good. No, yeah, you're right. I think, okay, the one final note I want to make here before we get out of here is, oh, well, there's a couple. Okay, let's go through this.

The class of defensemen you mentioned before that it was bleak. I mean, it's, I think that was an understatement, I guess we'll see where Calvin DeHan signs, but like, beyond that, I mean, good Lord, the Jack Johnson contract was, uh, I'm glad it happened because the dial between the back and forth between Yarmoket Kaliden and then Jim Rutherford and John Terrell kind of chiming in was made for great theater and the NHL could use more of that. But we went through this. You know what's funny?

Yeah. You know what's funny? I think sometimes hockey people, they phrase things or they use expressions that they don't, they don't sort of have entirely a firm grasp of. Like there was somebody this year who said that Ron, Ron Francis didn't think critically. It was after he got fired. It wasn't a critical thinker. And like that's a pretty, that's, that's rough talk where I'm from.

And I think the guy just kind of misunderstood the expression and didn't realize how vicious it was. And, you know, like Johnson said that he was excited to be part of a winning culture or something. And that obviously set off Tortorella. And, you know, I read Johnson's explanation. I just, I honestly think he didn't really consider how that might be perceived by, you know, his former club in Columbus. And, you know, there's other examples. examples of it. So it's just, I just thought that was kind of a funny thing that basically, I think Johnson, I don't think he was intended to throw bombs. And it was funny, like,

Rutherford, do you see Rutherford kind of declined comment after Torderella unloaded on him? And I think, I think he was like, yeah, maybe I shouldn't have said what I said, so I'm just going to eat this. Right. So, I don't know, I thought it was a very interesting fiasco. But when a team makes a decision like this, like giving five years so Jack Johnson, And there's so much sort of pushback online from the hockey community wondering, like, you know, what I've watched Jack Johnson. I've looked at his underlying data. I don't think he's worth that. And then, you know, I don't know if Jim Rutherford sort of reading between the lines of his comments was like similar to, maybe on a lesser scale, but similar to what Steve Eiserman did with Dan Gerrory last year, where it was kind of like that, you know, black box internal data argument where it's like clearly the penguins believe that Jack Johnson is a much better player than.

We think he is. And that's always an interesting, interesting stance for teams to take. Yeah, you know what, though. I feel like sometimes when you have a team that has like Sid and Gino, it just distorts your perception. Because they're like, well, I'm sure, you know, internally, it would not surprise me at least in one of those meetings. If someone was like, well, Trevor Daly couldn't play for Chicago and he came here and he was great for us. and it's just like, yeah, you guys have Sid and Gino and Chicago, you know, they have great players, but, you know, those two are pretty special. And it wouldn't surprise me if they sort of talk themselves into it on the same basis.

You know, well, you know, bramere, it'll be like Trevor Daly. And it's just, you know, I don't know, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but boy, five years for a guy who couldn't get into a playoff game. Or if you did, like he certainly was a healthy scratch for some of them. that's received well it is and i'm very curious um like what they would i'd love to have a honest give him some truth here i'm and have an honest discussion about this because like i've watched jack johnson the past couple years like beyond just the underlying numbers which are obviously very poor like i just you know with certain players you can sort of see the i test appeal and you can go like okay well i can see myself talking myself into this player you know

the right circumstances playing with different players. Maybe he could thrive. It's just like at this point of his career beyond where he was drafted and sort of the draft and the name pedigree of him throughout his tenure in NHL. Like what? I'd be curious to know what the physical aspects of Jack Johnson's game, the people who are still fans of it see and go like, you know, there's a good player in there because I just, it just seems like kind of like a replacement level guy that we wouldn't necessarily

be caring about too much if he got a reasonable one or two year deal for like. a million or two, but just because of the sort of specifics of this, we're getting into this whole debate all over again. And I just, I don't know, maybe we're all coming out on the losing end of it. It's nothing really to gain from it. I think there's two things there. I think first of all, you know, he is by all accounts, like the kind of guy you want to have on a team from sort of an intangible's perspective. He's a J. Beagle. Yeah, he's, he's a hard worker. He's, you know, like he he sets a good example. You know, he sounds to me like, like, you know, like he's, he's a good, a good team player.

And I think team value that. I also think, like, you know, he does like, you know, it's someone, you know, I was talking to someone in hockey. What he said to me was, you know, he skates great, you know, he plays hard and he's like a moose in front of the neck. And, you know, that's kind of what a lot of people see when they play hockey or when they're, when they're scouting hockey players. and and it's just, you know, it's with him, it's, it's, I think it's maybe just as simple as that. Like he, you know, he looks like he's doing stuff out there and he's a, you know, a good teammate. And, you know, and then the kind of guy teams want to have around. And, you know, that may well explain it.

He's certainly doing stuff when he's out there chasing the puck because he never has it on a stick. Yeah, it's when you say he's a moose in front of the net, that's like the most Canadian quote I think I've ever heard. he's like a moose from the net eh yeah now he's a pretty pretty pretty pretty Canadian quote so so I don't know like it's it's it's one of those things is it gonna kill Pittsburgh no but you know if he's not very good and he's eating up you know that money and it squeezes him a little bit well don't you think it also there is uh you know you're saying how having Malkin and crosbie can kind of distort your perception of stuff and I think there is a bit of probably hubris involved as well where it's like Like, especially when they go and, you know, they get Justin Schultz, for example, and he does pretty well on their team. Like, I do think for some of these teams, there's probably an element involved where it's like, you know, we've had this happen before. We can probably get another guy from a different situation. He'll do just way better on our team because we believe in our team that much and playing with Crosby and Malkin.

He very well might, but it's, it just seems like it's not probably the best, most optimal way to do business. Yeah, yeah. No, it's, I don't know. It's, you know, those teams that have those kind of players, they can get away with some things. Okay. So to wrap this up, what are, are there any other dominoes or waiting in a fall? Like, you know, the UFA is available. There's nothing really of note.

It feels like we're sort of waiting, obviously, on a potential Carlson trade, but it does also feel like the sharks after missing out on Tavares and Ryan O'Reilly. They retained some of their guys here this summer, but it seems like they're still kind of itching to get in on the festivities and bring someone. else in on other roster so like is there anything else beyond that that you're sort of kind of looking to see in this transaction period that could be of note beyond you know routine signings and a hl depth guys and stuff like that well i don't know who do you think the sharks can go again uh i don't know that's a good that's a good one there aren't too many like i don't know

like revisit the max patch or anything i guess doesn't really help them down the middle but it does seem like they're very eager to to spend some more money and improve their team heading into next year. Like they really are, even if Patrody walked as a free agent, it feels like they're really all in on this current core. So I don't know, something like that, maybe. Yeah. It's funny, eh, like to contrast them with the islanders.

Like, the islanders don't get Tavares and they're like, all right, let's go to plan B. And it's like Val Filpula and, you know, they're just like, they're just like, you know, Leo Komarov shooting money around. Whereas, you know, you're right. There does seem to be a perception of the sheriff. are going to maybe try to aim a little bit higher. So, you know, I think that probably makes sense. The Carlson thing is fascinating to me.

You know, where does he go? I don't know if you saw there was a story in an Ottawa paper that kind of was, it was crazy. It was one of those stories you read where you're like, is this like an ownership plant? Because it was sort of hypothesizing that, you know, maybe Carlson's wife was kind of, you know, shooting some poison back at Hoffman's partner and maybe there's some wives who don't like her and maybe they need to get rid of Carlson too to really clean things up and I was just like I was really this is weird so you know like that to me seems like it's going to happen and it's just a matter of you know when and where I mean it seems inevitable that they will wind up in this trade

prioritizing shedding Bobby Ryan's salary instead of trying to get the best package in return and you know I tweeted this but I really think it can't be overstated how you know pathetic and shameful that is for an organization. I'd be trading a general regional player Stoleness Prime who's the face of your franchise in a clear money dump

like that is it's sad and I feel bad for auto senators fans and I guess the only saving grace is it could be one step closer to an ownership change down the road and I guess that's ultimately you know losing a battle to win the war but it's it's pretty bleak right now in the present day you know what's weird for me about this like is Bobby Ryan that bad I mean no no well obviously based on the money he's making yes like relatively speaking but you know you'd rather not be paying him you know seven million and I think it's more

I think it's like seven to a quarter seven and a half You know, I think you'd rather not pay him that. I can live with that. But, you know, his season last year, and, like, I was actually looking at this because I was like, you know, what's up with Bobby Ryan? His season wasn't that awful from a, you know, from a rate staff perspective. I'm just pulling this up now. So I feel like I can't say the guy's name because he works for another network. But let me just pull this up.

Yeah, like, here we go, Dimitri. How many points per 60 at 5-on-5 do you think Bobby Ryan scored last year? Oh, for 5-15 points per 60? Yeah. Is it comically low or surprisingly high? Why don't you give me a guess just based on your sense, based on how Bobby Ryan has talked about? I don't even know what like a reasonable ballpark would be for 5-on-5 points for 60.

That's so niche. I don't know. Let's say like 1.7? Yeah, 2.1. So like here he is 2.1. The year before that, 1.4, okay, that stinks. But then 1.8, 1.9, 2.2.2.2.2.2.2.2.2.2.2. So it's like, like I can understand that Ottawa wants to get out from under the Bobby Ryan contract just because it's a lot of money to pay.

He's getting older. You know, now the one thing that is a little spooky is his shot rate has kind of declined a lot. Right. And it was down again last year. But, you know, it's not like the senators are generating. for, you know, I don't know, that I find a little worrisome. So there I would be like, yeah, but other than that, I'm like, the guy's a good, the guy's still a product, he's still producing a five on five.

Now, the time may come where that ceases, but I find it strange that Ottawa is so desperate to shove him out the door that they would, you know, basically treat him like he has negative value. And he may well because of the, he does have negative value because of the contract. but it's not like he's like, I don't know, Marion Gabbitt or something, you know? Well, and that's the thing. I agree with you, but I don't find it strange just when you think of it from the perspective of like they want to get out from none of that money, not because they want to use it more

wisely on a different player. Like, they just don't want to be paying those, his paychecks. So that's like they're not worried about a non-nice perspective or bettering their team. And that's why it's upsetting if you're a fan or even a fall over this league. Like, it's, I think it's kind of shameful that an NHL team is operating. that way in 2018. Yeah, no, I completely agree with that. It's, it's, I don't know, it's strange.

Now, at the same time, like, it's disappointing, right? Like, I'd love to see the Ottawa centers be like, you know, fine. We're going to be like the sort of scrappy team that tries to be smart. And, you know, we're going to try and find a better way to do it. Like, like, you know, like, I'd love to see the senators be like, okay, you know, we should maybe be cashing guys in after six years. And we're going to avoid, you know, basically any UFA years. Like, you know, try and be creative.

But it's like, it's sort of like when you hear them, when you hear it sort of discussed, like Eugene Melnick apparently doesn't want to spend money on payroll. And it like it doesn't sound like they're going to be clever or anything about it. It's just like, no, we're just not going to pay people and hope we make the final. Like it's just sounds asinine. And it's disheartening because, you know, Ottawa's a, you know, it's a good hockey city. And, you know, people can get behind kind of a plucky team like that, right? But, you know, it's, as, you know, friends of mine used to say, it's one thing to cheer for a

poor team. It's another thing to cheer for a, you know, a poor team that makes poor decisions. Yeah. And you kind of, that's what they are right now. Yeah. Oh, well. All right, Tyler. Let's get out of here. What are you working on? What do you want to plug? I know you wrote quite a bit around the free agency moves. Are you working on some other stuff? Yeah, some other free agency stuff. You know, hopefully writing out of Carlson trade here in the next few days. And then we'll see what the summer we'll see what the summer brings it's uh it's all at the athletic uh you should be able to find a discount code somewhere if you're interested in getting on board if you can't uh you know shoot me a a tweet and i will ensure that you are hooked up awesome well i recommend that and um enjoy the uh

enjoy cycling season thank you demet tour de france sports net get excited all right man we'll chat soon have a good one thanks bud yeah cheers the hockey pdo cast with demetum Philipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey p-diocast.