The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 245: Plan B

Episode Date: July 13, 2018

Arthur Staple joins the show to discuss John Tavares' decision to leave the New York Islanders this summer, and the organization's attempts to pivot on the fly.  1:25 The John Tavares courting process 8:53 A highly questionable Plan B in free agency 16:16 Lehner, Trotz, and a historically bad defensive team 25:55 Plans for the coming season and beyond 35:00 Fan engagement through dark periods Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Dimitri Filipovich. and joining is my good buddy Arthur Staple. Arthur, what's going on, man? Not too much. Anything going on with you? You know, no turmoil. Nothing's in flux. No transition of any sort. It's pretty much status quo over here in Vancouver.

What about what about with you? Oh, you know, just quiet personally and professionally, a little bit of intrigue the last couple weeks, I have to say. Yeah, just a little bit. Yeah, for those that I guess maybe are new to the shore haven't been following for long. This is your third appearance on the PDO cast. So I think it's safe to say you're officially irregular and, you know, the first two times we did, we did some Islanders deep dives and people seem to enjoy those. So I figured that, you know,

this would be as good a time of any to check back in with the team and sort of kind of make sense of what's gone on this summer because, yeah, like I alluded to earlier at the beginning, it's, I feel like out of all the teams, they're the ones that sort of face the the most uncertainty or transitional period here right now based on some of the moves they've made and whether it's in terms of personnel or the front office decision so it's it's uh i don't know it's there's a lot to get to here um let's let's start with the tavera stuff um you obviously you didn't actually go to la to cover right you were just kind of working it from home yeah no there was no stake out for me thankfully yeah i was well i was kind of surprised though based on um you know a lot of

networks did send their reporters there and they were kind of camping out and we saw some pictures of various teams rolling up to those LACA offices for the meetings and reporters huddled outside. But other than that, it was sort of a lot of superficial coverage. Like we didn't really get much in terms of sort of what went on in those meetings and what the pitches were. I know my colleague Chris Johnston wrote a bit about sort of how the Leafs approached it with their pitch or their cell to the Bears in their meeting. from what you gather, like what, how did that go for the Islanders?

Was it sort of mostly an appeal to sort of, you know, his sense of loyalty and obligation to the fans and the franchise? Or was there some sort of actual process to sort of how they were trying to get him to sign back on with the team for another eight years? You know, I don't think it differed very much from the process all the way along. the one advantage obviously the islanders had, which ended up not really mattering very much, was the fact that he was an islander for the last nine years. And really the process of wanting to keep him and wooing him began somewhere in the middle of the 2016-17 season when principal owner Scott Malkin and co-owner John Ledecki started having pretty regular meetings with Pat Brisson, whether it was in Brooklyn.

I think last year, a lot of them between Malkin and Brassan took place at those offices in L.A. And they were really keeping Pat and then by extension Tavares up to date on whether it was the pitch for the new arena in Belmont Park, which came to at least the preliminary park came to fruition last December, or other plans about the future of the franchise. And certainly at the time when I heard about them, it seemed intriguing to me. And I think I had reported this all the way along first when I was at Newsday and then at the Athletic that I think there was some talk of a job offer for Paterson, which didn't come to fruition when the owners were kind of doing what they called their listening tour, talking to a lot of agents and former players and executives that weren't working for other teams about a possible president of. hockey operations job above Garth Snow at the time. This was during 16-17, their first year owning the team.

So I think there were a lot of things wrapped up in this, and the main thrust of it all was, we want John Tavares to stay, and obviously, in the other things that have been reported, that they didn't want to talk extension last summer. You know, there's been a lot of debate on Twitter about whether there was a formal request from Tavares aside to not be traded, whatever it was.

Ownership made sure that Garth Snow was clear, that all throughout last season, there was no shopping him around. There was no, let's see what we could get for him. That came from Scott Malkin. So I think everything that they did for the better part of two years was trying to get him to stay. So I think that that last face-to-face meeting with Malkin and Lou Lammarillo and Barry Trots was a chance for Tavares and his side to at least see these new guys in one room together, Lamerlo and Trots, who he'd met with already.

but I don't think there was anything that was really surprising or magical like we've been saving this big thing for you for this week. So, you know, I think it was a lot of the same, and I don't think that was necessarily a bad thing. And clearly the way that Tavares has talked at his press conference and wrote about in his Player's Tribune article, that there was a lot of things that pulled him emotionally towards staying with the Islanders that ultimately, you know, were superseded by what he,

what he wanted to go do in Toronto. Well, and it also felt like, you know, maybe this is a bit naive on our part, but it did feel like this team, you know, for once really had some off-season momentum leading up to July 1st, you know, they go out and get Lou and then all of a sudden, you know, they get Barry Trots coming along for the ride, and it feels like Mitch Coren's coming with him. And, you know, the draft played out perfectly. We were wondering whether they'd use those two picks they had there in the mid-teens to trade for a player who could help their roster right now, but just based on the way it played out,

two really good prospects felt to them, and it felt like everything was lining up for a really successful offseason, and maybe I guess that's why, you know, people did feel a little blindsided by it. Obviously, sort of the way it played out and leading up to that deadline, and everyone just waiting up here some sort of definitive word and not getting it. Maybe that was part of it as well, but I know that, like, in talking to you over, you know, throughout the season and then even in the offseason, I believe at one point, you know, you thought it was like, an 80-20 that he'd come back to the Islanders. And I don't know, like, did you feel like this was kind of a surprise, or should we have seen this coming based on some of the clues that were being dropped?

Or how do you feel about it? You know, it was such a, you know, trying to take the temperature and put a percentage on it all the way along. I've certainly asked a lot, and I stupidly offered it up a lot because we all fall into that trap of wanting to feel like we have a finger on the pulse. And sometimes you just don't. I said 80, 20 the week that the meetings were happening because I really felt like from the little that I'd been hearing and some of the things, you know, Lou obviously doesn't let a lot slip, but I certainly know a lot of people that have been in the Islanders from office for a long time and a lot of people that are still there. There was a sense of confidence because of those moves that, that, you know, whatever downcast, feelings he'd had at the end of the year, when it certainly seemed like if nothing changed, he was out the door guaranteed.

It seemed like a lot of that had turned around, and he was really looking for reasons to stay, and obviously the arena coming to fruition in a few years was a big one, and then, you know, not solving their front office problems, but making the sort of definitive changes that really hadn't been made in his entire time with the Islanders. it just seemed like if those were the signs that he was looking for, he found them. So I think it was, there was a little bit of that. Well, now why would he leave? But, yeah, it was a surprise.

Shock, maybe not because I think as the week went on, it sort of seemed, you know, the little things that were creeping out seemed more and more like, oh, yeah, no, he had a chance to listen to these pitches. And obviously, you know, when you start talking about childhood dreams, the way that he's been talking. talking about that that's a pretty strong that's a pretty strong pull too and there's not much you can do about it so i would imagine that you know if if kyle dubus and brennan shanahan didn't come in as prepared as they were and was you know armed with a pretty good team and a pretty good plan in place that maybe maybe it would have swung back to the islanders because of the things that they did but that was that little extra that put it over the top what i'm interested

by is, you know, obviously, you know, as you mentioned, as the week went on, maybe it started becoming or opening the door, making a bit more clear than maybe he was leaning towards leaving, but I'm sure that, you know, for Lou and for the brain trust, for the Islanders, there was, you know, they were heading into the process with an optimism that they would be able to convince him to stay and that they'd be building around him and Matthew Barzal as a one-two punch for the next, however many years to come. And then obviously when that fell through and a few hours into to July 1st spending frenzy. Tavares announced that he was signing with the Leafs.

And then shortly thereafter, the Islanders made a bunch of moves that I was very critical of with Leo Komarov and Val Filpula. And, you know, they re-signed Thomas Hickey and then they brought in some depth guys. But, like, from your understanding, was that sort of the plan all along, regardless of what happened with Tavares? Or was it one of those things where they kind of got the rug pulled out from under them a

little bit and then just because it was so late in the process. and, you know, O'Reilly talks had gone towards the blues, and maybe they missed out on some other guys like Stazzy, and all of a sudden they were kind of left scrambling, and that sort of did them in a little bit as well. You know, I don't get the sense that Lou has ever really caught off guard by those kinds of things, and you can certainly see, even now, you know,

they have whatever 16 or 17 million in cap space still left after all those signings. So, you know, even Tavaris at 11.5 or whatever it was going to be per year, still would have fit. So I get the sense that these were moves that Lou wanted to make. You know, he's always loved the grinder types.

And, you know, I think you take what you get from him in the brief media appearances he's had. And he's talked about culture change, which, you know, was always the key phrase when somebody new comes in at the top of the food chain. And I think, In this case, despite the fact that Garth Snow had already locked up a lot of guys that fit these roles,

I think Lou wanted to see a little bit more, a little bit more veteran depth. You know, the obvious thing that I'm sure we'll get into it about, you know, last year's Islanders giving up as many goals as they gave up and their penalty killed being as historically bad as it was. You go out and get a guy like Val Filpula who has traditionally killed fewer penalties. as I was looking up in his Detroit years than I would have thought. But I guess I think in his later years, he's become a more reliable penalty killer and face-off guy. Komarov became more of a face-off guy last year. He's always been a mainstay with the least penalty kill since he came to the NHL.

So I think those guys maybe were more backburner guys, but when you lose Tavares, you're obviously not going to go right out and replace your number one center, especially not in this era, you know, in this era of the NHL and in this, particular iteration of this free agent class. But maybe you go more aggressively because you need someone to take face-offs because Tavares took, you know, probably 35% of the Islanders face-offs. And Tavares was a penalty killer. Nikolai Kulman was a penalty killer.

I was hurt most of last year. So, you know, I think maybe you're trying to fill in the margins that you maybe would have anyway that if Tavares were coming back, but now you get aggressive in filling in the margins, which, as we know from our previous, my previous appearance, with you is a sore spot for people like you who observe the league and look at it in a very numerical way that these bottom six guys that the islanders keep locking up to kind of big deals the way of the world. So yeah, I think maybe they had it in mind but got a little overly aggressive what this was

happened. Yeah, that's what I figured. And, you know, it's tough with Lou because obviously he's been around the game for long now and you know he has his track record and we sort of we know kind of or we think we know sort of what type of players he likes and sort of prefers and you and you you mentioned those guys for example but at the same time it's really tough evaluating in recent years sort of what role he played within the leaf's hierarchy just because there were so many cooks in the kitchen and it was always tough to tell like it felt like you know especially analytical types with whenever something

good would happen with the leaves they'd be like oh this is a great job by caldub as he clearly won the debate and then when something bad would happen like the Matt Martin Martin signing for example they'd be like oh there goes Lou doing his old stuff again so it's been really kind of I'm sure the truth as always is somewhere in the middle there but we never really got any clarity towards that and I guess I don't know maybe some of these signings and how things develop with Islanders in the weeks months and years to come will sort of maybe shed some light on that I guess it's not for Islanders fans I'd say it's not exactly overly encouraging based on how things have happened so far but at the same time like we like

we said it's when you go into it with a plan of okay let's let's kind of focus on uh getting john tamera's back here and then all of a sudden you're looking around afterwards and kind of picking from the scraps available it's uh it's obviously not a desirable position to be in no and i think uh i think maybe the first little setback of of lose tenure was at the draft that first night when philipp grubauer went to colorado the islanders We're keenly interested, I think Lou correctly, identified Grubauer as the one guy that you really wanted to get who was available, whether it's a free agent or trade. Obviously, the key for Brian was shedding that. Yeah.

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you're going to get $20 off your first CKKK purchase. All you have to do is download the CKKK app and enter the promo code PDO today. That's promo code PDO for $20 off your first CKKKK purchase. Now let's get back to Arthur Staples and the HockeyPedieKeeKest. Yeah, no, so before the break there, we started talking about Robin Leonard, and I think that that was one of the moves that I actually did like that the Islanders made in this free agent period, obviously with goaltending being such a volatile position, you don't want to, you don't want to commit too many resources to it, or especially term, just because you never know I was going to play out.

And maybe that was part of, you know, why they might have balked at the idea of the price they might have had to pay for Philip Grubauer, not just the assets they would have to give up, but the contract he would want. in return. And at just a one year, 1.5 million, I think it's sort of a no-brainer, you know, high upside bet for them to make, obviously. Robin Linder has kind of an up and down track record and is considered around the league as quite a bit of a hothead. And maybe, you know, it won't work out. But, you know, at that point, if it doesn't, I think they can obviously easily move on and next summer try to find a different solution in that. But, you know, this is going to be a fascinating season for the Islanders for me because it's going to be the ultimate test case for

how much of an impact the coach and the system they have can really have on a team because you know when you watch those Islanders games last year obviously part of it was the personnel and I imagine Barry Trots will not have the same amount of successes he had in Washington because he doesn't have the same pieces to play with but at the same time it did remind me a little bit of kind of watching those Patrick Watt teams in Colorado where you know, the lack of strong defensemen and maybe forwards who can play in their own zone is one thing. But it was sort of just like a lack of a plan and just guys kind of freelancing and roaming around their own zone and there being so many scoring chances for the opposing team.

So we know from Barry Trots over the years that, you know, he really preaches a fundamental defensive game and, you know, he has a strong system in his own zone. So if they can tighten that up a little bit, then maybe, you know, some of the loss they're going to have offensively missing Tavares will be counteracted a little bit just because they won't be historically bad defensively. Yeah, and I think, you know, if you're just looking, especially at the defense core, you know, they bring back Thomas Hickey, you know, a guy who I think helps them, also a good guy in the room, and especially with the Tavares situation, a guy who's been here

before and says and does a lot of the right things. So they bring him back. they're one of the two finalists for Calvin DeHan to bring him back on a four-year deal, which I think was a bit of a surprise to a lot of people given the major injury he just came off of. But I think that says that either they felt like there wasn't a whole lot else to get on the market or give up an asset to get someone on defense, or Barry Trotz and Lul Amrell looked at that D-Corps from last year and said, yeah, we can work with this. They couldn't possibly be that bad and feel confident in his ability.

as you were saying to build the kind of structure that just was was missing last year. And, you know, I think fans and certainly their emotion can get the better of them at the best of times and at the worst times, i.e. last season, watching them play the way that they played and seeing who was behind the bench, I think made everyone say, anybody we can get rid of, we need to get rid of. And I think that's not always the right way, and especially in this day and age, Like unless you've got a good deal lined up for Justin Falk or a Tyson Barry to shake up, you know, the top four of your group, they've got to go with what they have. They have Nick Letty. They have Ryan Pollock who's a restricted free agent, you know, and they probably wanted to have Thomas Hakee and Calvin Dahan to go with Johnny Boychick and give them kind of a top five that they feel like they feel like they can work with.

and that, you know, have had some success in prior years. So it's also interesting to me to see a lot of the guys that were responsible for the defensive side, you know, have gone out and gotten new jobs. Luke Richardson's gone right to Montreal to be an assistant. Greg Cronham was just named head coach of the Avalanche's new farm team in Colorado. So these are guys also that, you know, it was a terrible year for everybody that touched anything to do with the Islander's own. last year and I don't think it uh you know I think it's fixable I think anything uh in this league can be turned around it's not it's not just terrible personnel and terrible coaching there was there was some something hanging over this team um on the on the defense aside penalty killed de zone structure

whatever whatever you could look at that that just snowballed and got out of everybody's control so I think I think Barry Trots has looked at this roster and said I you know I can fix this with what we've got Yeah, well, I mean, it'll be tough for them to replicate being as poor as they were last year. I mean, some of those numbers are, I remember obviously I watched quite a bit of Islanders games, and I think from an entertainment perspective, you know, the back and forth shootouts were six, five scores and never being out of it, but never also their opponents being out of it. It makes for great theater, but at the same time, like, you know, nearly 36 shots against per game, like 3.6 goals against per game.

I mean, it's just, it's shocking stuff. I believe from the, you know, shot prevention category, the only team that really rivaled them in recent memory was that 2014-15 Buffalo Sabres team that was openly tanking. So I think that that sort of says it all there. And obviously, you know, the capitals under Trots in those four years, only the kings were stingier defensively in terms of giving up goals. And I don't think it'd be reasonable to expect that. But there should be some sort of a middle ground here where it just, with the pieces they have in

place just having some sort of a defensive structure could really go a long way and i'm kind of curious to see both which guys um you know benefit from that change change and can really excel and maybe make something more of themselves and also if a if a guy like robin lennar is able to um you know come in and finally give them some some goaltending that they really kind of you know it's always tough for last year um there were so many things to point at and blame and wonder what went wrong and, you know, the coaching, the defensive structure itself, and then obviously the goal is not making the save, so it all kind of comes together. And I think there's, from that regard, I do think there's, you know, a reason to be optimistic. Now, how much of a difference that

ultimately make and whether it'll be able to counterattack counteract, the offensive loss is an entirely different discussion. But I think that, I don't know, maybe, maybe it'll actually be a net negative for us because they'll be just less entertaining to watch next year, because Gary Schroats teams typically are that way. Yeah, I mean, I think when you look, the starkest number to me was the penalty kill. I mean, and when I would kind of do a quick search online towards the end of the year, as numbers were getting more and more ridiculous about how far back you had to go to see a team that was under 75% efficiency on the penalty kill, it was 1988, 89, in case anyone was wondering.

And that's astonishing, like to go through the years of, you know, 200 points for Gretzky and the early 90s of, you know, guys who were prolific scorers and, you know, big-name guys that there wasn't a penalty kill at the bottom of the league that was worse than the Islanders put out last year. It was mind-boggling. And I think, you know, bringing in Comorov and bringing in Philpola and trading for Matt Martin and still having Casey Zizekis and Cal Clutterbuck and Andrew Ladd. You know, I sense that and I, you know, it's armchair quarterbacking now, but I sensed in talking to some of the guys like Sizekis and Clutterbuck who take a lot of

pride and defensive side and playing that crash and bang style and being the first two forwards over the boards on the penalty kill. I think they got guys like that, you know, a lot of it, as penalty killers like to talk about, as effort. You know, you just have to have the motor running at all times. And when you see literally nobody else in your team giving a crap about playing without the puck, I imagine it's pretty demoralizing for guys who run more on effort than they do on skill. And I don't think you want this many guys like that. But I think the message that Lou is trying to send, and I guess that Trots is trying to send, because he's signing off on these signings as well, is that the

skill guys got to understand that this is not this is not solely their area like they they you know the creative the creative guys like barzal um obviously you know can run the show but also you have to listen to the veteran guys and the guys who've had a's on their chest and all this cliche stuff that people when you talk about it their eyes glaze over and i get it but i i'm just you know just trying to figure out what they're doing i think that's what they're doing they're trying to set a bit of a foundation of how hard they have to work and you bring in guys who do work hard even if they don't always work smart and you go from there and maybe they're going to be terrible this year but but i think uh without taveris here you're you're starting to look a little bit more long term

at building this thing up as opposed to all right we got taveris back let's just go for brook right now yeah well i'm kind of curious sort of how those two things tie together because obviously um you know bringing in Lou and Barry Trots was sort of signal that, and this was obviously before they knew whether or not Tiber's was coming back, but those two guys do kind of strike me as, you know, they try to get this thing up off the ground as quick as possible and sort of go for being, you know, competitive and respectable above all else. And I do wonder whether sort of what the trajectory of this franchise is moving forward because there are still, even without Tiberas, there are a bunch of intriguing pieces and I think they do well to, you know, give guys like Anthony Bovey, for example.

We saw a lot from him last year, just attach him to Matt Barsell's hip moving forward and give him as much ice time and opportunity as he can. Maybe you, you finally call up guys like Kiefer Bellows and Josh Hosey and you give them some run and sort of hope to catch lighting in a bottle there. But those guys do kind of run counterintuitive to what we'd expect from those two guys calling the shots. And I know that, you know, it's tough to be critical of Barry Trots and the capitals considering they wound up winning at all. But I think if you look at it, you know, it's fair to suggest, you know, maybe they could have used guys like Andre Brokowski and Yakubranah more. And he obviously gravitated towards more defensively, the reliable, responsible types instead,

veteran leadership and all that. And I'm just not sure what the Islanders are going to be trying to accomplish both this season and in the next couple years to come. And whether it's as good of a fit as you might have thought otherwise, just in a vacuum based on sort of the names of and sort of the the reputation they have around the league yeah and i think i think that reputation and the name factor obviously was they were trying to get that done with tveris and i imagine that um you know there's still there's still some guys that are that are on the trade block uh whether it's an eric carlson jeff skinner and falk and carolina um you know there's still guys that that you'd want to have be part of your team you know paner

in Columbus, but, you know, are they going to be in another situation like they were with Tavares? If they were to make a splashy trade for our Temi Panarin, and he says, I don't know if I want to sign with you guys either. Like, then you're right back where you were this summer, next summer, and I don't think the franchise can keep taking those kinds of body blows. So, you know, I think, and this could all be blown apart if Lou makes a big trade in the next few weeks, but I think I think one of the guys that is starting to seem to me is a key for what they can do to start to replace Tavares is Brock Nelson, who's a restricted free agent.

He's got his arbitration hearing in the beginning of August. It's a four-time 20-goal score, but he is a guy that gets the big brunt of, now that Josh Bailey has become a decent producer, and we'll see what happens with him as well, with Tavares gone. But Josh Bailey used to be the Isles' Twitter whipping boy, and now it's pretty securely Brock Nelson. There's a guy who scores goals in bursts and then goes dormant for a while. It doesn't always look like he's the most engaged guy on and off the ice. And now, you know, Lou is basically said, we're keeping this guy. He's probably going to be our number two center to start the season or somewhere in that middle six.

and really he he was a third line guy all of last year obviously with the emergence of Barzal and his numbers kind of tailed off accordingly and when Josh Hossang went down that was really the end for Nelson because he played a lot of the year Andrew Ladd there was guys bouncing around on his line

and he didn't really he's not a real creator but now DeVaris is gone Barzal's going to get a lot of the attention so this is a chance for Brock Nelson if he's going to be here He's shown that he's a goal score. He's had some chemistry with Andrews Lee in the past, who's probably going to be his left wing if he's going to be the number two center. And Lee is a guy who obviously benefited from Tiberis.

So I think if they're going to do something, you know, to compensate for Tavares's loss, I think there's a lot. There's a lot riding on whether Brock Nelson can be a consistent contributor. And if he can, then yeah, I think they can, you know, like you said, they don't need to score as many goals as they did last year to be successful. they just need to keep them out of their own net at a much better pace. And Brock Nelson is kind of a prototypical number two center. He's a big body. You know, he's relatively smart away from the puck. His, you know, his analytics haven't always been the best,

but he's not terrible and he can certainly score goals. So, you know, I think if they're what they're thinking, and you can just put the pieces together of how they want to put it, you know, how they want to see it. And this is not, you know, Barry Trotz trying to get Evgeny Kuznetsov to get to that next level. This is, you know, this is a different, we're in a different weight class now trying to get Brock Nelson to be a number two center. But I think it's, I think it's important for them. And if he is still here when the season starts and he signed to a decent length deal and he's the number two center, then, you know, like you said, there's still, there's still some pieces here that say this team is not going to plummet to the bottom of the standings unless.

you know, lots of other bad things happen. And I just don't see it happening. So he could end up being a pretty important guy going forward. Yeah, no, there's definitely a lot of talent in place. And I guess that's what kind of also is a double-edged store. It makes it a bit disappointing when you kind of deem that maybe it's not being optimized or this team should be capable of more and it's not being put in a position to succeed. But kind of the most common pushback I've gotten from Islanders fans.

And we'll get into the fan base and the online presence in a second because I'm very fascinated to talk about that with you. But the most common pushback I've gotten has been, you know, whenever I comment on Ross Johnson, for example, getting a four-year deal and bringing in Matt Martin and signing all these third, fourth liners is, you know, oh, there's more moves to come. You know, this is all just part of the process and all of this is going to come together and make more sense once, you know, the next domino's fall. Do you get the sense that there is something big coming like that? Or for the most part, do you feel like this is going to kind of be the team, at least for, you know, this season and maybe next summer.

they recalibrate and do something bigger? I get the sense that they're trying to do something. And I think, you know, whether it happens, obviously, that's not just not solely up to Lou. But I think since he's, you know, since they got to the draft floor, he's been trying to do stuff. And I think, you know,

if you didn't see Wallstrom and Dobson fall into their range, I think he would have moved one of those picks for some immediate help, whether it was a defenseman or a forward. and that was even before Tavares had decided to go elsewhere. And I think they were trying on Ryan O'Reilly. I don't think they had the assets to make that work. And I think that's another part of this, the draft picks were really their best assets to try to make a splashy deal.

And now you're looking at unless you're going to give up one of those guys, which I can't imagine you'd want to when you've got some cheap labor sitting there. That's pretty prized. So then you're really getting into, you know, Kiefer Bellows is one of your biggest assets. You know, maybe Ilya Serocha in Russia as a guy that you start to, but, you know, is he a guy that you want to see as the future number one goal tender here in a couple of years? So I think their options are a little bit more limited in what they can do trade-wise. So now I think it's more a matter of being patient and waiting out the market and seeing what happens. But if Carlson gets moved or if Skinner gets moved and some other things shake-free,

but yeah I think they're trying I think you know it's it's not it's just not a situation where if you've got guys like Carlson or Pernarin if they got a choice

I don't think they're jumping to run to a place where somebody that's a commensurate star just said yeah I'm good I'm gonna I'm gonna leave you guys behind so I think it's not you know I don't know if that Lamerillo and Trots anticipated this, but it's hard to plan for, you know, guys that had such success. And, you know, they know the islanders from the outside, but you come in and it's, it can be a struggle here.

It's, you know, it's, it's always been kind of a, you know, an underground success kind of place. Obviously, the on-ice results have been incredibly mixed, but guys don't love to come here. And then when they do, they do like it. it's just hard to convince people, I think, ahead of time, especially when you're dealing with a situation we seem to be getting into more and more where star players are trying to pick their spots as they get to the end of their deals. Yeah, I mean, I really wouldn't want to put, you know, my Islanders, my faithful Islanders followers through that emotional roller coaster again.

I interact with quite a few Islanders fans on Twitter and over, the past year to, I've really appreciated kind of the jokes and the snark that goes on, the passion. And I don't know if you've experienced likewise or if you've noticed a bit of a change since Tavares left, but it really, I don't know, it does feel like there's kind of a collective, like, like, vitriol and just, like, the jokes have kind of stopped. I feel like I've gotten a lot of flack for, you know, calling out some of the moves they've made. And maybe part of that has to do with the fact that, you know, people for the most part kind of have some blind faith in Lou and his track record and the fact that he's been around the game for so long and they just have faith that

he's going to turn this thing around. Or, I don't know, part of it is kind of just, you know, coming together and sort of trying to save face after, you know, losing Tavares. But it's, it does feel like the tenor and sort of the dialogue has, has changed a little bit over the past couple weeks. Yeah. And I think, you know, any, any fan base, even one that maybe had a little less. core craziness

than I'll than I understanders fans would have reacted the same way you know this is this is kind of unprecedented in the NHL certainly in the lifetime

in the fandom of most of the people that follow both of us on Twitter it's it's it's not something anybody's seen before and I think you add in all of the mistakes whether you start with Charles Wong

and Garth Snow and move up to Malkin and Ledecki what we talked about earlier. And to be frank, you know, as I've been pretty consistent, there were some missteps by Tiberis himself, I think, in the last couple weeks, you know, not anticipating how this was going to play out and kind of being lost in his own head as opposed to thinking, like, oh, yeah, if I make this decision,

all these people who love me are going to hate me, and I need to just eat it. But, yeah, it's not a time, you know, I've snarked my way through lots of interactions with Islanders fans over the years. And, you know, I think I always felt it was justified because I was getting a lot of intense reactions to Alan Quine or Shaden Prince being in the lineup. And I always felt like this might be a little outsized reaction. And now it's totally justified to me. I think to anybody who cares about a team is that much when you see the best player you've had for a quarter century,

just say, you know, I love being here, but really my actual dream is being somewhere else. I think that's a crushing blow. I mean, you know, I try to, like a lot of us do on the media side, you don't want to get to fall too in love with the team that you cover because you can have some bad reactions to it the way that the fans do. So you try to keep your distance. But I think there's also a time to just, you know, have empathy because it's, It's just a terrible situation to be in, you know, through all of the other awful things over the years of arena, you know, getting the rug pulled out from one of them about trying to get a new arena, con men trying to buy the team, all the stuff that everybody jokes about in the legend of Isles fandom. This is a genuine one. This is a guy that everybody loved that they felt like when they, when he pulled the sweater on at the draft in Montreal nine years ago, that like they were going to turn a corner.

And for a brief time a few years ago, they kind of did turn a corner. And he was a big part of it. And for him to say, you know, yeah, it's been great. But my real destiny lies elsewhere. It's just an empty feeling. And it can sense it from a lot of people that I've become friends with in the Isles' Twitter world, that it was definitely not a time for jokes. And it doesn't really even still feel like a time for jokes.

It's the, you know, the atmosphere around the team has changed a lot. with Lou being in charge. It's a lot more tight lift, obviously, and he runs a real tight ship, and that's, I think people on the outside appreciate that. But also, I think it's just kind of coincided with this, this, you know, this, like, kind of nauseous feeling of this Tavares situation and kind of seeing it unfold over the week and having it come to fruition on that day on July 1st.

And it just, yeah, it's going to, It's going to take some games for, I think, everybody on our side and on the fan side to kind of get the taste out of their mouths and move forward. Because, yeah, I don't see it happening before any games are played unless there's a big splashy trade. Who's got in mind to make everybody forget about it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and listen, obviously, you know, there's been, you know, an interesting sort of discourse about, it's been brought up. Like, oh, how good is Tabara is actually, you know, he never.

was able to lead this franchise to anything other than, I guess, the one playoff victory, and, you know, whether he's a generational player, whether he's a star, a superstar, or however he want to classify it. But any way you slice it, there's no way around the fact that this is an obvious step back. And at the same time, you know, certain franchises go through, you know, they get a star player like a Tiberis. And then if they wind up leaving, it might be high for many years until they get another guy like that that comes into the mix. And unfortunately, I think for Islanders fans, you know, after just one season, you don't want to put the weight of the franchise on a guy like Matthew Barzell, but if last year's any indication, it looks like sort of the

era parent is already in place. And I guess that is something to hold on to for hope and optimism moving forward, where it's not like they're necessarily just completely hitting the reset button and sort of pushing this thing back a decade and starting from scratch either. For sure. And I think given the kind of guy that Matthew Barzell is, that he, you know, they're certainly friends and I think they benefited from being around each other for the year last year. But I think Matthew Barzal is the kind of guy that says, okay, now it's my team now and I'm ready to take it. You know, he had that attitude a lot of last year. I think a lot of the veteran guys, including Tavares, got a kick out of that sort of that incredible cockiness that, you know, even though Tavis is, you know, only, you know, nine years older,

at seven, maybe not even seven years older than Barzal. There's a little bit of a generational gap with a guy like Barzano, a guy like Tiberis. Tavares was always a lot more quietly confident, and Barzal is a, you know, is a talky guy and, and likes to back it up, too. So I think it's, I think that part of it is going to take the higher end of this team in an interesting direction. You know, all the talk of he's a number one guy now and there's not a lot behind them. will he be able to handle top pairs every night and more attention? And I think he will. You know, I just think that's his general attitude is, I'm good, bring it on.

And he, you know, he's a guy who all last year shook out the, you know, he'd get a little geeked up facing Patrick Kane or Sidney Crosby or his idols. But as he would say, after a game, you know, he's like, after a couple shifts, I'm like, okay, now I want to be better than them. I want to score more points than them tonight. and I want people to notice me more. And, you know, it's a great attitude to have in this kind of situation where the team is trying to regroup from a tough situation. I think you need that kind of cockiness. And even if it doesn't translate into another eye-popping year,

this is a guy who's always going to want to get better. So, yeah, I think that situation is, it could be a lot worse for the islanders with Tavares left and Brock Nelson and Valtari Philpola where your top two centers going forward. So yeah, I think that part of it is in pretty good hands. And it'll be interesting to see how that cockiness and that confidence inspires a room that has gotten a lot older with Tavares leaving and all these other guys coming in. And a coach who commands, frankly, not a shot at Doug Waite, but just commands a lot more respect. than any Islanders coach that we've seen in a little while. So, yeah, that'll be interesting.

And I think a real positive for Iowner fans. Yeah, no, definitely. All right, let's get out of here. I think we kind of cover it all. Is there anything else about the team that we missed or that we should touch on while we're here? No, you know, I think, like I said, it's been an interesting few weeks just getting adjusted

to life under the loose. cone of silence and and and and having it all coincide with with the Tavares situation. I think I think there's you know like I said shock is probably too strong word but surprised that he left and I think there was some shock in the front office maybe not from the newer guys but definitely from some of the longer serving people there and I thought it was interesting in his Player's Tribune article that he thanked pretty much you know he thanked Garth Snow He thanked Doug Wade. He thanked Jack Capuano.

Even thanks Scott Gordon, who he didn't get along with very well. And he thanked a bunch of players. Didn't thank Scott Malkin, who was a guy who basically bent over backwards the last two years to try to get him to stay and did lots of things that, like not setting a deadline to sign a contractor, be traded last season, that were very curious. And, you know, it just, that was the one thing that struck me in that, in that whole situation that, you know, maybe there's something more to that connection that that was a little more off than we thought. But I guess it's all reading the tea leaves and maybe somewhere down the road, there'll be more of an explanation about how it all went down. But yeah, I guess this will put a bow on it. And then when I'm out in Vancouver in the springtime, we'll have chapter four of this radio serial of Islanders' Twitter and we'll see where they are then.

I'm looking forward to it. What's, I'm trying to pull it up right now. When do the Leafs come to town? I don't know if they only come once. It's later in the year. So it's going to be a little while, but it will be. There's certainly a lot of talk of, you know, burning jerseys outside the arena. Yikes.

And they're angry right now. It's best to not say calm down or is there anything like that to anyone. I think it just let it play itself out. And like I said, if there's a big trade that Lou's got to spring on everyone over the next few weeks, maybe he'll do that. And that'll get people moving forward. But I think the thing that I'll get everybody past, it will be training camp and getting to see your team on the ice. I mean, this is such an incredible, even without Tavares, it's such an incredible transitional time, this organization that barely had any changes in the front office or behind the bench for over a decade. So, and I've never brought in anybody with a pedigree like Barry Trott has.

So I'm very curious to see how that professionalism, how that level of respect is going to is going to translate to a room that's probably, probably would be feeling a little fragile otherwise. Yeah. So it's Thursday, February 26th, according to my record. So that's going to be, or February 28th, sorry. So that's going to be quite a game. Maybe I'll come out to Bar-Cour.

least for that and we'll do a podcast live from the arena or something like that around them. Awesome. Awesome. Thanks a lot, Art. Enjoy the rest of your summer and we'll catch up with you soon and I recommend everyone. Give a quick plug here and I know you obviously are doing fine work at the athletic, where can people find you online and subscribe and all that sort of stuff. Well, we always have some deals floating around at the athletic.

So if you just go to the site and check out what sort of discount we've got. That would be great. Maybe in the summer if you're a hockey fan, it might not be as many for you right now, but certainly when we get going in the training camp time in September, there'll be lots. And I'm at Stap Athletic on Twitter, and hopefully we'll have some more JF Burube talk at some point, because really, that's, if you can get him on this show, that would be the greatest thing of all time. I mean, it's not like he's got anything better. I feel like he could carve out an hour. Maybe he might even be a, it might even be a co-host moving forward. We'll see if we can get old J-A-F on the show.

All right, Art, enjoy your summer, and we'll catch up with you down the road. Thanks, Matry. Anytime. Appreciate it. Before we get out of here, I did want to touch on a couple housekeeping notes. First off, I know that it's the off-season now, and most of the podcasts you do listen to are taking a bit of a break. And we're going to tone it down a little bit on the HockeyPedio cast. We're not going to do two or three shows a week like we've been doing through the season.

But the plan, as of right now, is to keep doing one show a week. Now, this is where I'm going to ask for your help because since there isn't that much going on and most of the transactions and the news has already been taking care of, new relevant topics are kind of dry right now, which is why I'm going to try to do what I did last year. You guys seem to enjoy the mailbag shows we were doing in the offseason and we're going to bring that back. So if you have any questions or any topics you'd like for me and my guests to get to in future shows, you can tweet at me at Dim Philipovich, or you can. And if it's longer form and 280 characters, this isn't going to get it done, feel free to send an email either at HockeyPedocass at gmail.com or Dimitri. Dot Filipovic at gmail.com. And the second thing is, if you do have a minute or so, I'd love it if you could take the time to go on iTunes and leave the podcast, a nice little rating and review. We've gotten some pretty funny ones on there.

Someone went on there and left one as JF. Barouba and said the feelings mutual and I really enjoy that. And obviously, if you can mix in a bit of humor and inside jokes into the five-star ratings, I'd greatly appreciate that on top. But anything is good. So just, yeah, it's really quick, really easy. And it means a lot to both myself and the future of the show. And with that said, we're going to get out of here.

So let's run that at outro music. And I'll see all you next week. The Hockey PEOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.