The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 261: Extraterrestrial Life in Vancouver

Episode Date: November 16, 2018

Patrick Johnston joins the show to discuss the Vancouver Canucks, and the alien life form that has come to planet earth with the sole mission of fixing the franchise. We also get into a couple of other topics, most notably including: 1:00 Elias Pettersson and the Canucks 26:00 Joel Quenneville's next coaching stop 45:20 Playoff Expansion 54:45 Covering a team on a full-time basis Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $10 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Also sponsoring today’s show is MeUndies. To get your hands on the softest, most comfortable underwear you’ve ever worn just go and let them know we sent you. If you enter the promo code PDO they’ll even give you 15% off the first pair, and a 100% satisfaction guarantee that you’ll love the style and substance they have to offer. One final sponsor: PuckPedia. It’s the ultimate resource for hockey fans, containing salary cap information, basic and advanced stats, draft and transaction history, news feeds, game previews, and injury updates. It’s also the exclusive home of the Agent Leaderboard, which shows who the top agents are and lists which players they represent. Regardless of what you’re looking for, it’s got it, which means that you no longer need to be switching between multiple different sites in the pursuit of information. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Welcome to the Hockey Pee-Ocast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich. And sitting directly across from me for the first in-person show. of this 2018-19 season for me, which I always love doing, is my good buddy Patrick Johnston. Patrick, what's going on, man? I don't know much.

Sitting in a lovely apartment. I feel like we're very cool here. I wish there was like an audience. And, you know, we're staged. It's staged well. It's not that big of an apartment, so I'm not sure how many people we could see it in here.

But, you know, we could get the Canucks Army alumni. We could get Camas Duran, Thomas Trance. They can't come. Jeff Angus, if he's still around. Jeff, yeah, that would be a good one. It's a good crew. I email with Jeff sometimes. Do you actually?

Yeah. he's like does tennis stuff well we're going to talk about that and a much other stuff I'm glad this is the first this is the first time I've had you on but now you've got an official I had to get a real job first

so okay I have official takes now people always give me crap we're just glossing over this and just jumping right into the show and then they're like this person was great but I don't know what they do should I follow them on Twitter what's what's their deal so let the listeners

know what Patrick Johnson does and and then we'll get into actual show itself. Well, I'm the newest beatwriter for the Vancouver province and the Vancouver Sun has started in September after some other guy left for some sports startup. Yep. And yeah, so I've been doing Canucks stuff. There's two of us, which means that I'm not on every road trip. So currently Van Coosma's on our other, on the current road trip, but obviously back tomorrow. And yeah, so I'm going out on the road next week. It was on the first road trip. And yeah, you and I know each other from Canucks Army.

Yep. I think you might be one of my, like, oldest, both in terms of actual age, but also in terms of how long I've known you, friends in the industry. It seems about right, yeah. I mean, yeah, because we started in like 2011 or so at Canucks Army. I was, yeah, late in the playoffs 2011. Yeah. Dransk picked me up and then found Cam shortly thereafter and the buzz was gone about me.

And, yeah, because you were at, what, 2013, 2012? Yeah, I think the 2011-12 season at some. point there. I hopped on board. You're just some kid with the podcast. And then I really started doing like much more full-time stuff during the lockout in 2012-13, which was a bad timing to really get into the industry. But I remember it's really funny.

And I promise we'll get into current events for people who are like, this is a history podcast, isn't it? But I remember one of my first big pieces was writing about why the Canucks should not go hard after Shane Done. What an era. And this was like a big topic of discussion, both in Vancouver, but I feel like in the entire NHL. because Shane Donut hit the open market and he was one of the big free agents and he was like weighing his options.

And I was like, I can't believe this needs to be said, but maybe don't give a five-year contract to this guy who was already in his mid-30s. Because he was really old. And he really fell off the cliff like shortly after. But I remember like he decided, I think he took a bit of a hometown discount to stay in Arizona. But he still got paid pretty handsomely considering like what type of player he was at that point of his career. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah. I mean, a player that would have been great enough in his prime, but for the Canucks ad, but not at that point.

But yeah, so I mean, I guess to bring us up to date, yeah, that I got a job at the province. And I've been there for five years. Exciting stuff. So we're going to, for people that haven't clued in yet, we're going to talk about some other NHL stuff, but we'll mostly focus on the Canucks. And last year, I did a deep dive with Mike Halford. And people enjoy the conversation. But for the most part, they were like, how do you manage to squeeze a 45, 50 minute podcast out of just the Vancouver Canucks? They're like the most boring team in the league.

They're a punchline, basically. And at this point, it's funny because I was looking at this the other day, the team's overall numbers, for the most part, are nearly identical to what they were last year in terms of all the underlying numbers, how they're playing at 5-1-5. They're scoring a few more goals. But the league generally is, and also it's a bit of an inflated shooting percentage that will probably come down.

But yeah, it's crazy to me that they're performing the same way. I guess they're sitting currently in a playoff spot in the position. Civic Division, but 20 games in, you don't know what to make of that. But the discourse around this team and just the national attention, like people kind of like the Canucks now in a weird way. Like not, I wouldn't say people are head over heels about them, but it's like, they're willing, they're not a punchline anymore. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, it's funny. I've been thinking about that too. And one of the stories, I think, and maybe we'll get into this, but one of the stories, if you look at the numbers, especially, is that we know so much more now about kind of how those numbers get built. and there are some interesting things that the Canucks are doing. First of all, they openly acknowledge, I talked to Jim Benning yesterday, and he pointed, say, like, the game where they lost at home to Pittsburgh 5-0.

He said, that's a game where we just said to be realistic. Like, they're just a lot better than us. And, but you look at the games that they've managed to keep close, and there's been things in those games that tell us this team is much further along. the road than they were last year in terms of where they're trying to get. And, you know, they're just better skating team, which means that other teams are being forced to make decisions quicker, which, you know, better teams on the, on the whole are going to generally come out on top.

But, you know, they're keeping themselves closer, I guess, to the race. Yeah. They're not taking as many shots, but they're really trying to focus, like, they're definitely not taking shots off the wing. they're just not doing that. They're saying we're going to get the puck into the slot as much as we can. I think they seem to be going for a lot more of what we call the low to high passes, like pass out from below the blue line, things like, or below the goal line, I should say.

They're just doing interesting things. They're really focused on forcing the play in a certain way, conceding shots in a certain way. I mean, they're still giving away way too many shots in the slot. But that's one of those, is one of those ones where I wish we had more data because I'm interested to see what the passing data would tell us about those shots. So there's lots of interesting things about the team. And as you said, like nationally, the profile is interesting because of Pedersen. We're bearing the lead.

I can't believe we made it six minutes into this podcast without. And he's such a fantastic. And he's such a great story. Like he, yes, he hasn't scored in the last three games, but he had four shots the other night. Right. You know, like he in each of the past two games, I believe. And obviously, you know, he wasn't going to keep converting one out of every three shots he takes into goals. So, you know.

But he's that good. It's just been incredible. And I wrote it. I covered the first preseason game when he didn't. score and I made a parallel with Pavel Burry because Pavel Burry's first game in 1991. He didn't score either, but he was thrilling and fans got out of their seats and it was a buzz. And then, of course, the first game of the season against Calgary, that goal that he still, you know, put it over Mike Smith's shoulder.

Yeah. You know, possibly one of the best shots I've ever seen. And he's kept playing that way. And that on its own has made it more interesting. Yeah. No, so it's one of those things where you don't want to get too carried away, I believe he's paid 14 games up until this point he's playing his 15th game tonight when we're recording and if he had this type of a stretch with 17 points in 14 games or whatever it is in the middle of the

season like it would still be a big deal because obviously we rarely see rookies do that sort of stuff but i feel like the fact that it's happening in his first 14 games sometimes people can get a bit carried away and make too much of it and expect that he's going to keep doing that right he's going to keep averaging 17 points for 14 games and that's obviously not going to happen at least at this point of his career with the teammates he has but some of the stuff just watch Watching him is, I think, more impressive than the actual point totals in offensive production, like that play he made in the overtime against Buffalo. Just sort of the creativity and also the, I don't want to say like audacity,

but sort of the willingness to try something like that speaks to like him operating at a different wavelength or hockey brain capacity than most guys, especially most young guys who are like afraid to make a mistake because they think their coach is going to bench them if they turn the puck over. and you see this guy in overtime instead of just taking a shot or whatever, like trying to get through three guys and drawing a penalty and you're like, that could have gone so horribly wrong, but he's so damn good that he pulled it off and drew a power play.

Audacity is exactly the word. No, I think that's the right word to use. Well, think about the 7-6 goal, the last home game they got, or the 7-6 game. Against the abs, right. Against the abs, against the abs, when he did the Sadeen thing, and he slapped the puck off, you know, took the slap shot dump in

to set up Besser for the goal off the boards. You know, and I, you know, after the game, We talked, we all talked, I mean, everybody talked about it. And multiple people brought up the Cidines. I wasn't the only one. And everyone said that reminded us the Cidines. Pedersen claimed you never seen the Cidines do it. Fair enough.

I mean, I suppose it's a statement. You maybe have been drafted by the Vancouver Canucks, but maybe you weren't necessarily interested in watching the Vancouver Canucks. Right. I asked Jake Frattan about it. And as people may not have discovered, and if they haven't, they should, But J. Fort Tannen is a fantastic quote. He's got, he's willing, he gives you great comments about stuff.

And I asked him and he said, he said, oh God, I'd never try that. Which speaks. I mean, he's a confident young player. Like, pretendant is a confident young player. But it was an order of confidence for him. He's just like, I would never try that. Yeah. And he was saying, this is how confident in his abilities and how creative a thinker he is

and how how instinctual his audacity is. He says, well, let's just try it. Let's do it. And they did it. And it worked. I mean, even if it hadn't worked, even if the puck hadn't been a goal, we still have been a while. What an idea to try.

Yeah. I think in the past, I would have said this, I think now it's a bit of a cop-out because we are seeing that players who are developed here in North America and play Major Junior, like you watch a guy like Matt Barzal, for example, and he shows that sort of, I think, like, Artemi Panarin's one of the best guys at this, just kind of keeping the puck on his stick for a half second longer than

you're used to seeing from NHL players because he's that confident and creative with his ability and it usually leads to different passing lanes opening up and opportunities that other guys would have missed out because they either just fired the puck on that or dumped it in, right? But I do think a bit of that has to, like the, a bit of the overseas mentality and obviously playing in a pro league at such a young age, like that clearly gives him a bit of a leg up where, you know, he just turns 20. I don't think he's your typical 19, 20-year-old hockey player who, you know, was just playing in Major Junior or NCAA.

Like this is a fully, I don't want to say fully formed because I think this guy's the limit for him moving forward, but he's clearly already operating at a different level than most young guys are. The cultural thing is an important factor. I think it's less, I think you're also right. It's less of a factor because, as you said, you do see guys that are really trying to drive their skill as being the reason why they're- at a younger level.

It's not being like beaten out of them by grumpy old coaches. No, exactly. And I, and, but yes, Pedersen in the end is very much an example of a player who has come up through a system. And he's, he essentially says it himself, you know, that's my job. My job is to score. Like, that's why I'm here.

There's no denying that. You know, he does everything. The fact that he does everything else so well is why he's been so successful. Right. You know, the fact that he's such a good back checker. you know, is something we've all talked about already now, but, but that's still not why he's there. I mean, him being a good back checker keeps him keeps coaches confident in him. But at the end of the day, his job is to score and he's been doing that.

And by doing really fun, in really fun ways, I should say. So I was, I was writing about Pedersen today and sort of the overarching theme of my story was, you know, typically hockey sort of propped up as being the ultimate team game. And, you know, the hole is great in some of the parts. And obviously, I mean, compared to the sport like basketball or even football with like a quarterback, even a star player like Connor McDavid, for example, is going to be playing tops 22, 23 minutes a night. And as we've seen, I mean, that Oilers had the best player in the world last year and they didn't make the playoffs. They're already struggling again this year.

So there's only so much you can do as a great player and a superstar. And I think sometimes, um, hockey fans really championed that idea that hockey is this kind of workman-like team sport. But at the same time, when you watch what a guy like Pedersen has done for just sort of the prism through which we look at and talk about the Canucks, both at a local and national level, it's clear to me that the NHL still is a superstar-driven sport, especially in terms of driving fan excitement, getting people to go to the games, getting them to tune in, open their Twitter and talk about it while it's going on, like so on and so forth. you need those young exciting players, especially for a rebuilding team to sell hope. Yeah. And I think that's ultimately what this entire thing boils down to. It's like this team is still not very good.

They're probably going to fall out this playoff race pretty soon, which is fine. They're still rebuilding. But at least now it doesn't feel like people are being sold a bag of magic beans. There's actually something to show for this rebuild. And, you know, obviously Brock Besser last year and the goal scoring binge you went on is great. But Pedersen is an entirely different animal where you can look at him and go, okay, this could be like a legitimately foundational player that makes everyone around him better

and not just scores his own goals. They've pushed the story forward. Yeah. I mean, if there was one thing that was, I think, driving everyone nuts was this inability to really openly discuss the need of how, the need of selling a new story. Because, you know, obviously the Gillis era ended,

Benning came in, there was this discussion. Well, we can just continue with that. We can extend that, which of course worked for, you know, partly through luck, partly through the fact the team's actually still pretty decent. They made the playoffs one year. And then that's been it. And then they kind of poked at the edges of what they really needed to be doing, which was moving on to the next thing, getting younger players involved. Some of that, yes, admittedly was the fact there weren't a whole lot of young players coming in. But they still went out and did things like signed Louis Erickson for six years, six million dollars. Right. You know,

know, like, there was a lack of focus in it. And I think what we're finally seeing now, and some of that is helped along with the fact that Siddines decided to retire. And so the club was forced to think about themselves in the new terms that they were always going to have to. Was that, yeah, they've gone and said, nope, this is what we're doing. Now, you know, as I wrote on the eve of the season, like, this is not a team full of kids. Like, they're still not that. They sort of talk in those terms.

It's a younger team. Yeah. You know, I think it's 26. Well, just look at how they approach this summer. Right. But they still brought, exactly. They still brought in veteran free agents. And, and, you know, you can, you can quibble with, with that part of the approach.

But the focus is now on what the fans wanted to hear, which is that these are the guys for the future. Right. And some of them are here, like Pedersen's here. We're singing a fair bit at and Godette. You know, these are going to be the guys that the team is going to be built around. And that, okay, this is fun. There's no expectation of playoffs. I mean, I don't have no doubt there'll be an expectation of playoffs for next year

whether or not they make it this year is immaterial. But it is exactly what you were saying, that they pushed the story forward, that there's a new, that there's a thread. It's a new era. This is something new. And it's something that you can, okay, cool, I like this. And it's, honestly, it's fun and more interesting to watch. Yeah.

It's pretty simple. Yeah. No, I mean, there's finally a reason to watch these Canucks games now, and obviously Petterson plays a big role. in that. And I think even people that aren't Canucks fans will be tuning in just to see him because you know, if you see enough gifts of him

hitting the posting going in or dangling in the neutral zone, you're going to want to kind of watch that live for yourself. But I guess here's... No, that's my tip, by the way. Go watch him live. Like, I'm not even selling tickets. Oh, yeah. Just go. You're not working on commission for these tickets. I know. That's not how it works.

Just go. You'll enjoy yourself. So, I know this is like the ultimate a contrarian or nerdy analytics guy take, but you're not one of those guys, sorry? Is it, so obviously, you know, now that they've gone on this road trip, they've lost a couple of games, I feel like they've come back down earth a little bit.

You know, for the most part, I think people would still, even the more optimistic fans would generally agree that this isn't going to be the Canucks year, quote unquote, and that they're not at that point of the rebuild. Is a year like this where you kind of overperform a bit or you appear to be a bit ahead of the curve in terms of your rebuild,

can that actually set a franchise like this back because it kind of sells a little bit of that false hope where all of a sudden, let's say they missed the playoffs this year, but they're pretty competitive, they're winning a bunch of games, they're staying close in games, all of a sudden next summer, if you're Jim Benning, you know, the Aquilini's are breathing down your throat,

you're looking at it going, okay, well, we were pretty close last year, so I think this really could be our year, even if you aren't necessarily ready. I think it very much is a challenge to their plan. It's like balancing expectations sort of, right? Yeah. And also, what's your plan? Like, did you build out a plan that this is what you want to do?

And, you know, I mean, it's a bit like you think about the lease when Austin Matthews accelerated their plan. Right. He can't, they not only did, not only did winning the draft lottery, but the fact that he was able to deliver right out of the box. Yep. That that accelerated at least one of those accelerated the plan. And in a way, Pedersen may have done that. But at the same time, there's a real confidence in what they have here. They talk about their prospects.

Now, we all, I, you know, like everyone else, most others have said they need more. You should have more because not all them are going to work out. But they're very confident in the ones they have. And at least one of them is as good as it gets. There's a couple others. It looks, I mean, all of you, Levy's playing well enough in the HL that looks like he's going to be a fine angel defenseman. I don't know if he's going to be an elite

NHL defenseman, but he's going to be good at eacheller. You know, there's Quinn Hughes, Goddette, like I said. There's a couple other guys in Utica that, you know, they're high on. But to make a team sustainable, which is the lesson from the Oilers, you need more of everything. Right. So it's like a volume. You're sort of like a lottery team.

Yeah. And that becomes the question of their plan. So they get excited, about Pedersen. Pedersen is an accelerant, gets things pushing the direction they want to be going in, that they believe they'll be going in. But are they patient? Right. Because, you know, I was out, somebody asked me this earlier today. Like, you know, the, say the Kinex are in a playoff chase at the trade deadline, you know, does you start talking about a big trade or making some kind of, picking up some kind of player? And I said, positioning the Knox is a buyer? Well, no, but this was the

question. Could they be a buyer? And I, and I, and I, said, well, no, I said, listen, I said smartly, I thought, kicking the tires on Carlson, kicking the tires on Tavares, like, that's, like, you're irresponsible if you don't. Right. They're, they're never going to come here, but you're responsible if you don't. Yeah. You have to be realistic at the same time, though, that, you know, yes, you'd absolutely love another elite forward, and yes, you'd absolutely love an elite defenseman, you know, but you at the same time, you have to say, like, okay, do you have, if you have the pieces to add it, great, like, go for it. I always think that's the right move. Yeah. But at the same time, that, that narrows your window by doing that

because those players are older inherently. By going for someone like that narrows, you have to recognize that narrows your window. Right. Which, of course, you know, is an argument we're now hearing with Leaps because of where they're at with their contracts and everything. So the lesson becomes, again, if you think Pedersons put you in a spot that's further down the path than you thought you were originally were. Yeah. Then that becomes the equation, okay, we're in this spot. Pedersen, but the fact is, Pedersen is still 20, only 20 years old.

Right. So on the first year of his deal. On the first year of his deal. So it's, to me, the argument forever remains almost certainly with this team because of the fact that there's still, you know, a long way to go. the defense has been playing better. It's better than maybe we thought it was, but it's still a long way from elite.

You know, the goal tending is so-so at best. Yeah. You need to be realistic about where you're at and not get caught up in the height that everyone else is speaking about your team. Well, yeah, the Canucks are in a bit of a tricky spot there timeline-wise just because, you know, I guess Travis Green himself as the coach hasn't been there for as long, but with Jim Benning there for what is this his fifth year? Yeah, 2014.

I mean, so there is that one playoff appearance, which is kind of a surprise against the flames and they lost in round one. But you're getting to the point now where it's easy for us to look at this and go like, all right, this is just found money. You know, you weren't expecting last better since that this type of rookie season.

This is great. Enjoy the excitement, but still keep a cool head about it. But obviously, you know, if your job is on the line or if you're feeling, the pressure to finally get some of that playoff revenue and have some to show for this team you've been building for a couple years. It's very, very easy if you're that deep into it

and you have that much on the line to forego that sort of patience and just make up miscalculated trade either at the deadline or in the summer with signings. And I guess that would be the ultimate thing here where it's like enjoy this for what it is, but also keep some perspective on where you are in the grand scheme of things. Because I don't think, I mean, we're talking about the as a potential buyer. I mean, it's one thing to, I guess, make the playoffs just because the Pacific Division now, aside from San Jose, I feel like it's very wide open. But, I mean, where does that ultimately get you?

Like, what are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to accomplish making the playoffs again? Are you trying to eventually win a cup or at least be a legitimate cup contender? And I think the division itself kind of speaks to the story. It says part of the story is that part of the story is that you find yourself in a window where your competition isn't actually all that strong. Right. And as a result, maybe you kind of use that to your advantage

in that you don't have to stress out too much about making a big move, that the way things are is fine and that you take it. Hey, say, you know what? That's a stroke of luck for us. We can put our team that is, you know, sort of building, we're building towards the future and we can say, well, let's see how we do in the playoffs. Let's see how this group does in the playoffs.

what lessons can we learn from this group and not even worry about the idea of going, oh, well, you know, wouldn't it be great if we got a true elite top line winger? I don't even know there's such a player out there, but just as a thought experiment, you don't even have to worry about that because, hey, you played well enough, your division was terrible, and now you're in playoffs. You're saying the Knoch should not be pushing all their trips in for an Antimie Panarin rental at the deadline. No, no, that would be a bad, bad move. As much as it would be fun to have our attention to be around.

Oh, it would be a blast. I'm not sure how far that would take them. Okay, let's take a quick break here to hear from a sponsor, and we will pick this conversation back up on the other end of things. Getting tickets online can be far too complicated. With hundreds of websites and varying levels of variability, it's hard to know who to trust out there. And that's why Seekeks the way to go, because they're going to do all the heavy lifting for you by pulling millions of tickets into one place, so you can easily find the seats you want for a price you're willing to pay. There's nothing quite like being there in person, and Seekeks can help you get closer to their action for a great value. See Geek's designed to make your ticket buying experience easier than ever before.

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I got myself a beer during that. What a sound. It's a bourbon blood orange weed ale from Bridge Brewing. Not a sponsor, but it could be if they want to slide into my DMs. I'm not going to shotgun it in honor of Jake Fraternan, but I will slowly sip it and enjoy it as we continue in this conversation. So, enough about the Canucks. Do you have to explain?

People around the league know about shotgun Jake. Is this something you know what to explain? Do you want to give a quick explainer? I feel like people generally have seen it. A couple of local sports personalities came up with the idea that every time Jake for Tannen and scores a goal this year, they should shotgun a beer. It's become a bit of a movement.

People are enjoying themselves. It's actually been kind of a neat thing to watch. It's been an organic, non-team-driven, partly because it involves drinking, I guess. But although the team has official beer sponsored. And all for all you wise guys out there that were making fun of the Canucks for taking Jake Retan over Willie Nealander,

who's got more goals this season, huh? Yeah, exactly. There we go. Yeah, I feel like the Canucks will have an easier time retaining Jake Fretanan and then the Ceptsville, Will Nealander. Goals. eight goals yeah on pace for 30 something yeah yeah i think he's gonna do yeah yeah obviously shooting

17 or whatever helps but i mean if you look at it a lot of it's happening around the net and i think it's part of it is what jim benning and the canucks probably envisioned when they drafted him out of out of calgary right it was like jay for tannan was gonna jay for tannin i was pretty convinced was always going to be an in an inchel player i wasn't sure he was going to be a front line player and i'm not sure he is now but he's playing good hockey for them and you know what most teams i think would be like to have a player like jake for tannan on their team yeah he's a useful guy, I think. Anyways, we're not going to rehash it.

Yeah, let's bounce around now. I haven't really talked about this on the show yet since Joel Quenble got let go from his duties by the Chicago Blackhawks, although I feel like it was probably much more of a mutual decision than was reported in some outlets. You know, this had been a thing for a while, and I've been talking about it since the podcast and anyone that follows the league closely knew that it was a weird thing, the kind of like staring contest that was bubbling between Joel Quenval and Stan. Bowman, sort of a bit of a power struggle and eventually, obviously, the GM won. And we'll see

how long he himself will last there. You know, the early returns haven't been that great. As it turns out, getting rid of a great coach will not all of a sudden make your team better for no magical reason. You actually got to see the Blackhawks. Yeah. Up close when they visited here in Vancouver, it was one of Quintill's final games with the team. I believe he probably coached like a couple more after that. I think because it was on Halloween itself, right? That's right. It was like a week before he got canned. What would you make of that? Because obviously, you know, the team, I guess, got off to a bit of a nice start, but

long gone are the days of this being a team you pencil in to the Western Conference finals and, you know, if they finally missed the playoffs last year and they still have some of the big names there, but for the most part, it's a team that's been stripped pretty bare of any depth that might have had once upon a time. I'm kind of curious for your take on sort of that. entire situation and also logical landing spots for Joel Quimlo, whether he wants to coach this year or not.

Well, first of all, I managed to catch the tail end of Coach Q's postgame media scrum, which is just in the hallway at Rogers Arena. It's not like behind a podium or anything like it is for the home coach. But I leaned in

and it had to be one of the quietest like conversations I've ever experienced. I think that I sort of turned to someone after I'm like, nope, that's just how Q talks. Yeah. So, anyway, I'm glad I got to experience that. I think, I mean, we've seen it here in Vancouver. You know, coaches have a sell-by date.

It just happens. It may not necessarily be the most big picture logical decision. You know, you want to make sure that the guy that comes in is better than the guy that left or at least equivalent. Right. Long ago, a coach in another sport once said to me that you have only so many things. that you can ever say to a player or to your players and that at a certain point they got to find somebody new. Yeah. I would, you know, you've kind of laid out the personnel challenges that face the Blackhawks right now and their aging core. They've got some still unbelievably fabulous

players. Right. But an aging core and not a lot, not a lot else. And, you know, I mean, if as the story's go that Q didn't really, he didn't want to deal with a young rebuilding team and building towards a new era and Bones, angling for that? Well, I think, it doesn't surprise me. It's remarkable. I mean, obviously, the testament to both

his coaching ability, but also sort of the situation the organization was in, that he was, this was his 11th season, I believe, behind the bench in Chicago. And as you mentioned, that the tenure for coaches, I believe, I was looking at this at the start of the year. I think there's three coaches now that Quimble's gone that have been, whether

their current team for more than four seasons. That doesn't. I believe it's like, it's Paul Maurice, John Cooper, and Peter Labieland, I want to say is the third guy. And it's remarkable.

I mean, most of the turnover happens within two or three years because either you're a cup contender or, you know, your window closes and all of a sudden you're going to be the first one

to get blamed, right? And so the fact that he was there for this long is a thing in and of itself. But I don't know. Like, I think he's a fantastic coach. I mean, I thought he came across very well

in Craig Custin's book where he was sort of, hanging out with all these various Stanley Cup winning coaches. And, you know, there were all these anecdotes about how, like, in the final game of the regular season, a guy had a performance bonus, and he made sure to put him out there for these exact situations so that you get it. And, you know, there's stuff like that where it's like, okay, you can see why the players would love this guy, but just without even any close interactions with him, just sort of

following from afar, like, he always struck me as a great balance of what you'd generally consider more of an old school type, just considering how long he's been around the game. so he commands a bit of that presence and respect from a certain type of crowd, but also he seemed like a pretty smart sort of intuitive, well-reasoned guy that would be willing to embrace more modern approaches of analysis and sort of lineup building and stuff. So I think that's when you're looking for a coach, like that's sort of the perfect thing to meld those two things.

So you can't have one of either extreme just because you're ultimately going to wind up. If you're not accommodating and not versatile, you're going to run out of the league pretty quickly because guys are just stopped listening to you. It's interesting that you said about the fact that while he'd been there so long and that most coaches, I mean, it probably comes to no surprise. Most coaches don't last very long in their job. They get one go and that's it. And most teams are not elite. And that sort of speaks to, it's sort of a self-reinforcing reality, I suppose,

that you're only as good as your lineup. You're only as good as your how well your coach coach. is that lineup. Right. The good coaches are the ones who, I mean, it's a bit of, it's a chicken in the egg. I mean, is, is John Cooper a good coach because of his lineup or because he knows how to handle his lineup? You know, I mean.

Right. But it's also a tricky balance because, like, I think Todd McClellan, for the most part, is a pretty good coach. Right. Had some quibbles with how he's handled. The guy like, yes, he pull the RV, for example, and some of the stuff he sometimes does. But for the most part, I would say he's in the top half of coaches at least. But when you have a Connor McDavid type, all of a sudden, you have much.

different expectations for how good that team needs to be. So if you don't live up to them, that can also really cut into your shelf as a coach because you either need to win a title or compete for it, or you're going to be gone and they're going to try to bring someone in to replace you. I mean, look at what's happening in Pittsburgh over the years with trying to get the most out of Crosby and Malkin and how many coaches have come and gone because they couldn't until they ultimately settled now on Sullivan. Yeah, which, I mean, again, a funny one because it's like, well, you know,

I mean, Mike Johnston was trying some stuff and it didn't work out. Right. you know, you know, it's that, it's that endless thought of experience. What if Willie Dejardin had gone there? Because Willie is the ultimate hands-off coach.

Yeah. You know, and he goes into Pittsburgh and just lets his two-star players run the, you know, maybe, maybe it's a completely different story there. Is Mike Johnson back in Portland?

I should know this because I am linked in friends with him. Oh. And he always posts these videos are like coaching 101. Oh. I feel like he's back with the, with the Winterhawks. I don't know. You'd have to have him.

Yeah. But, But, no, the churn in the league in coaching is, you know, I mean, it tells you, first of all, there's a lot of coaches that people think are in HL quality coaches. And it also tells you that. Well, there's only 31 jobs. There's only 31 jobs. And that at the end of the day, most teams, most teams are grasping for what they're

trying to figure out what's wrong with their team. And that, so for, for, for, I mean, Quintville won. I mean, that's the difference, right? You keep winning. It's going to keep you in the job. you know, the fact that he liked his players, he got along his players, speaks well to him.

You know, I think that, again, I mean, the guy like John Cooper clearly gets along well with his players. But it's more than, you know, there is more to it than that. It's being a fit in your organization, you know, the organization having a sense of what it wants to be,

where it's trying to go, where it's trying to go. Yeah. What the coach is for. And, you know, for a long time, Quinnville and the, Lockhawks were one and the same. Yeah. Yeah, I think sometimes, you know, the whole personality or psyche thing can sometimes get overborne for players, but I do believe that, you know, behind the bench, that's one thing where, like, you do need to find the right fit

with the personality and sort of how that's going to mesh with the players you do have and where you're out in that trajectory. I remember when we saw when, when Boudreau was like, oh, by the capitals, I believe within like 24 or 48 hours or whatever, he was scooped up by the ducks. And I imagine the fact that Joel Quimble doesn't have a job yet as of this recording speaks much more to the fact that, you know, he's getting paid pretty handsomely by the Blackhawks and he probably, he hasn't had time off in a long time. So I'm sure he's enjoying this and he's probably going to kind of sit back and wait for the perfect opportunity to arise. But yeah, I think that speaks much more to his choice than teams not being interested

because I imagine if he said, listen, I want a job right now. I imagine that probably like at least 15 teams call them, even if they're happy with their current coach just to check and see if Quenvo might want to take over their job. Well, I mean, you want to talk about personality. It's talking about the ultimate person that we think of personality and comes to John Tortorella. He lasted one year in Vancouver.

But he was the coach for four years in New York. He's been the coach in Columbus for four years. And a great example of you can teach an old dog new tricks. Yeah. And people can evolve because I used to make fun of John Tortorella all the time on this podcast. And I think justifiably so based on what we knew and heard about him. I got to see I was actually covering the Canucks full time

as the managing at Arrow Canucks Army while he was here and that was a train wreck and I think he's even admitted himself that was it was a self-imposed train wreck because he was not committed to that job at all and he was sort of in this weird crossroads of his coaching career and he took some time off and now the job he's done in Columbus I think you know just everything you hear and sort of the coverage you see from people covering that team like I wouldn't say he's the most progressive guy still by any means but I think like he's at least opened up or warmed up a bit to the idea that there's the game has evolved and um so the fact that

he of all people was able to go through that transformation um is very telling for sort of what it takes to be a successful coach over a long period of time in this league and that it's possible yeah and again why and it's remarkable i mean even even him i mean he's lasted he's had some good stints in a couple of places i think He was seven years in Tampa when you first started. But again, you know, the personality is a lot and the ability to connect with who you are. And SNAS is a huge part of it. And there are certain people who stay in the league and there's certain reasons why. And I have no doubt that Joel Pondwell, if he wants to coach again.

I mean, how long we, he was in St. Louis for a really long time too, wasn't he? He was. Well, so I imagine this is the obvious kind of pivot question here. It's what's the best fit for him? and I imagine he's asking himself that question right now and looking around the league and I think I'd imagine if I was in his shoes I'd be looking at the Edmonton Oilers

and I'd be thinking to myself boy it'd be fun to coach Connor McDavid for the next however many years I get a good fortune of doing so and you know there's obviously roster flaws there and I don't think their GM is the guy to fix them but if you're Joe Quenvo

like that seems like the type of opportunity that might be once in a lifetime he's coached some great teams obviously and great players but I mean whenever you get a chance to coach the best player in the league especially at this age where you know it's not like you're inheriting a guy who was 29 years old and you're like okay I don't want to necessarily get anchored down by a declining team like there's reason to believe that the Oilers are on the trajectory upwards at least

with some of the young players they have so I think that's like the most obvious fit is there anything else around the league in terms of because most of the good teams that are intriguing probably have like firmly entrenched coaches like yeah obviously Tampa Bay or Winnipeg would be great but I can't really see John Cooper or Paul Maurice who I just mentioned there's the two longest tenured coaches now going there and you ain't going anytime soon so it's like there aren't too many very desirable teams like St. Louis is interesting and he's been linked to that but I don't think that's the type of roster where you look at it and you go okay I can win a cup with this team immediately I don't think Mike yo is the thing that's stopping them from so. but I mean They've just hired Runnymore They've turned over Their management

New owner You know That's the kind of team I mean They were sure We're a fun team to watch Florida Maybe

Yeah But you know I mean It's This It's an interesting one Because he's I just looked it up

He's 60 Yeah Right This is This is This is The next job Well if he's there

For another 11 years It is for sure Right But I mean You know Say Say he goes in and says, I'm going to be a coach for five more years. Yeah.

Right? I mean, maybe he wants, yeah, maybe he's got two more gigs. But realistically, the next gig is going to be his next job. So it's not going to be going into a mess like L.A. Right? No, I think, yeah, there would be any appeal for that at this point. Poor Willie. You know, so you're right.

So you sit back and think about it, okay, well, yeah, maybe. Maybe it's a lineup like Edmontons, but I don't get any sense there's any interest in getting rid of Tom McClellan. Right. See, I think like, this is like the ultimate like armchair fantasy booking, but I saw someone online going like, oh, what if, you know, Steve Eisenman and him went to Detroit. And Steve Eisenman obviously took over his GM and he took over his coach. I think that team is still a bit too far away in the process for like that to make a lot of sense for him, I'd say. Like that's still a reclamation project, right? like yeah i mean it's sort of the profile of it would be high but the actual um the actual

chance of success is low i mean there's nobody yeah there's nothing that jumps out of you saying oh detroit's the team of the future right yeah uh yeah it's not it's not it's not it's not clear to me what the real true options are out there because as you said like there's a lot of pretty there's a lot of like solid fits you know like we've mentioned torts we mentioned solvin we've mentioned, you know, you mentioned, if you think about a few other teams, you're like, Mike Babcock's not going anywhere, you know, Clos Julians, having success in Montreal. Yeah. I guess, like, maybe, you know, Boston with potentially, but I feel like, you know,

Bruce Cassidy hasn't been there for that long and they've been successful enough that I feel like they don't have been sent. They're not a team that you're not a team where you say, oh, they need a coaching change. I mean, there are examples of teams that are doing really well that what they really did need was a new coach and they fired their coach despite everything. But no, I don't think Boston's that team. I guess the Flyers maybe? Flyers.

Could be interesting. Yeah, Flyers could be interesting. They have the talent. Yeah. Haxstall is, you know, I think people were not. I think. Huge fans of his. Buffalo, but Phil Housley, you know, has actually found some stuff this year. Yeah.

So, you know, I mean, I'm, you know. I think Edmonton, I keep coming back to that as a... Probably, yeah, I mean, it's not going to be Colorado. It's not going to be. he's not You're listing all 31 teams He's not going to go to Arizona

It's not going to be San Jose Anaheim I would not want to latch myself onto that as potentially my last job Yeah I mean You know I mean To me Anaheim's an interesting one

Because there's enough chatter around Like things are not going well there And there's enough chatter about Carlisle Yeah like I think it's very easy To make fun of Bernie Carlisle And he makes it easy upon himself makes it easy for us i think there's only so much you could realistically do that roster

like i think they could be better than they've shown and obviously getting healthy would be a good start for that but at the end of the day i think even the best coach in the world with a healthy ducks roster could only take that team so far just based on the way it's been assembled like they're pretty i mean being so reliant on the goalie is a pretty big story there isn't it and like aging guys who just are getting phased out of this league yeah it's a it's tough um we're now rapidly approaching the holiday season and for many of you out there, myself included, that means you're about to realize that you need to start scrambling and figure out what to get for your loved ones. Fortunately, Miandis is around to help you knock

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To get your 15% off your first pair and 100% satisfaction guarantee, just go to meandes.com slash PDO. That's meandies.com slash PDO. Now, let's get back to the show. Okay, here's another interesting... You've done with me listening to all the teams in the NHL? Yeah, I don't think Coach Q needs our advice, I think. He can handle himself. Here's another parlor question. So, Elliot Friedman on this week's 31 thoughts

brought up the idea of playoff expansion. And the gist of it was, I think, the top six teams. So the top three teams, in each division all get in. And then the two wildcards basically in each conference will wind up playing the teams, the two teams who just missed the cut

in like a best of three or whatever with that, with the teams that were to the wildcard teams, having home ice or whatever. It's basically sort of like what they're doing and what they did in baseball. Right. Where they just... It's a playing game. They're just trying playing games, yeah. And I'm kind of curious for your take

on it, because I can obviously see both sides of the argument for, you know, the old school. traditional type or sort of wanting to not make it too easy to make the playoffs because I do understand if you're going to have 82 games what's the point the prospect of then playing another like in baseball especially the idea that you play 162 games and then you play a one game is bonkers to me but at least in this case 82 and then you play like a best of three or whatever like that can make some sense and I can understand it from a fan interest perspective from driving revenue like it seems like a great business opportunity is what I'm trying to say

And as a fan, like it would be fun, I think. I guess, you know me. I'm a huge fan of crazy wild ideas. Yeah. I like seeing new and different things happen. I guess this to me, I'm pretty lukewarm on because of the fact that I'm not a hard no because of, like I said, I like, I like very, I like trying new stuff. I'm team chaos. but at the end of the day,

the season in its totality, not just the 82 games, but with the playoffs, is already so long that unless they're talking about shortening the regular season, which they would never do, I don't see the point.

You know, you're going to sell a few more tickets in a few more places, maybe. Yeah. Like I guess the teams, you know, you're going to play best of three, or whatever, you know, you're going to sell, you're going to have one or two more dates to sell tickets to. So here's my alternative proposal,

because I agree with you. I think the concept that's currently being discussed other than making a couple cheap bucks doesn't ultimately really do anything for us as fans. I mean, I'm just not sure because, I mean, they have hard enough time selling tickets in a lot of places. And I think that's something that doesn't get talked about enough. Yeah?

I really, I mean, yeah, you look at, you look at these Canucks games right now. I mean, what's the turn out been like this year? That has a certain level, that on a certain level is a different argument. I mean, yeah, you're right. There's been a lot of,

there's still a lot of empty. I mean, they haven't had a lot of home games for one. Right. You're telling me you can't find 17,000 people who want to watch Elias Pedersen? Well, people don't know who he is yet.

I mean, that's part of the story. Right. But. Well, that's on, that's on you to introduce the people to the Lai's Pettersson. What are you doing here talking to me? Get out there. Yeah.

Anyway. That's a different issue, but there are a lot of, places around the league that have low ticket prices and still have a hard time fill in seats. Yep.

Right? And, you know, people love pointing out, pointing to places like Florida or Arizona, but like, I saw a Detroit game earlier this week where there weren't a lot of people in those stands. Yikes, yeah.

At the Little Caesars. Right. Whatever it is. It's not a, it's not, you know, it's a league that, you know,

has a lot of fans, does well, but there's a lot of places where they're not rocking every night. And so to me, opening the rank up, I mean, I can get it. That's why they would want to sell more tickets, but I'm not convinced that it's going to be a sellout, you know? So, and also, I also from the sort of, you know, aesthetic perspective,

the first round of the playoffs, you know, NHL playoffs is so much fun. Yeah, the first round is the best, too, when you have like four games on it. Right? But this wasn't necessarily eliminated. I just, I'm not saying it eliminates it. I just, I just, I just wonder what it would do. Like, what it would do? Would it just shift the buzz?

Would the buzz still be there? And we'd just have this, we'd have to wait a whole extra week. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. To me, one of the strengths of what makes the first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs works is that it comes almost right away. The season's over. Yeah.

There's kind of, the NHL's always done a good job of kind of having a fantastic kind of crescendo of the season. Things happen. There's always some fun stuff the last week. A couple races get settled. And then boom, we're in the playoffs. It's the beginning of this fantastic marathon. And it's such a good start.

And so if you added some weird little mini playing around, yeah, it just, I don't know. It just, to me, I feel like it would just become an unloved stepchild. So here's my counter proposal. I love those. So we do have the playoff. any games. But you're not doing it based on the 9th and 10th teams in each conference getting to play in.

You're doing sort of, you've seen this idea of the gold model for drafting where it's like in the second, after you're eliminated, the better you are, the better pick you get to a reward team for not tanking. I'd be interested in something like that, whether not necessarily when the team gets eliminated, but maybe the second half of the season or something, the teams. the teams that have played the best in the second half get like a lifeline or a second chance and maybe this is just like a best of the teams that miss out yeah so this is maybe just the recency thing but like I think it would have been fascinating entertainment and storytelling

to have theirs in a coyote's last season right get to potentially play in the playoffs because you know they obviously stunk at the start of the year right I think they lost like their first 10 games and at that point you're pretty much out of it but then they were like the hottest most successful most exciting team in the final six weeks of the season.

And I think it would be very interesting to see a team like that get rewarded. No, obviously, I think there's going to be very few instances of teams like that because I think for the most part of the teams that do the best in the second half the season will probably... Like, generally, there's not that big of a variance between the first and second half for crappy teams.

But I think something like that would be much more appealing to me than just this idea of... Because you're ninth place, you all of a sudden get a second chance. I like that. Because you just... missed because you lost six of your last seven games. Yeah, it's like, oh, well, you should have won an extra

game. To me, that's the thing, though, is like you're going to end up with teams like that, you know, if it's eight versus nine and seven versus ten or whatever. Yeah. At least one of those teams is a team that basically hit the wall and couldn't finish it out, right? There's always a team that just, you know, or lost 11, their last 12 or whatever. Like, why does that team deserve to be in the playoffs? No. And I'm all for any, system that rewards regular season excellence. Like if you are going to insist on playing 82 games, make it count for something beyond whole mice all the way through.

Like, I think the league should be stacking the deck more in those teams' favors, to be honest. The president's trophy is not enough? Well, when's the last time the president's trophy team won the sign the cup? I don't know. I feel it's been forever. Is it really? Yeah, you always hear this stat about how it's like they always generally lose pretty

quickly in the playoffs. Yeah, so it's tough. And that's the thing. It's like a seven-game series. Does that better determine who was the? best team in the 20 in a given season. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely more chaotic. One more quick break here, and then we will finish to show up on the other end.

Puckpedia.com is recently launched and quickly become the ultimate resource for hockey fans. Whatever it is you're looking for, chances are they probably have it ranging from salary cap information, player salaries, basic and advanced stats, draft and transaction history, news feeds, game preview, scores, injury news, so on and so forth. They've got it all. They've also become the exclusive home with the agent leaderboard. which is one of my favorite perks and features, which shows who the top agents are

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it's really become my go-to resource for its user-friendliness, for how easy it is to navigate, and for the fact that it has pretty much everything I need in just the one place. So whether I'm looking for, you know, what Elias Pedersen's performance bonuses are and when he's going to hit them or, you know, who Alex Edler's agent is and who represents him and sort of trying to figure out looking ahead how this upcoming trade line is going to go and whether he's going to wave as no trade clause and whether he'll stay with the Canucks moving forward. All that stuff is right there and very easy to find and use. So whether you're preparing for a podcast such as myself or have even lighter needs such as just trying to search something up to fact check and help win an argument with your friends or satisfy your own. own curiosity puckpedia.com is the place to go. Follow them on Twitter at puckpedia. They are constantly

tweeting out useful information on signings and news and it's a good way to kind of stay at top of all the information as it's being released in real time. That said, let's get back to the show. Okay, so we did Joel Quinvo. We did the new wacky playoff theory. Let me tell me about covering the team in terms of the travel and going to different arenas. And I know you've obviously now had the good fortune of, you know, seeing various, various teams up close in different arenas and so on and so forth. What's, because you obviously is your first season doing this particular gig. And I kind of want to know about your, this is your two buddies catching up. I want to know about your first six weeks on the job beyond your beautiful vacation you just took in Mexico.

It was, yeah, well, I did a good time in Mexico. Thanks for asking. see the Canucks on the schedule there. I don't know. I didn't have to go on that road trip, did I? Covering the team has, it's been interesting. Yeah, definitely. I mean, obviously, you know, someone who grew up as a fan and then as an adult obviously have morphed into someone who writes about the team and thinks about the team in terms that are different. And then, you know, so, you know, between Canucks Army and then even when I have. I was at the province. It was mostly what we call a web editor that my job was essentially helped run the website and do some copy editing of other people's stories. And sometimes you write

stuff and if there was time, you got to write, you know, bigger pieces. And so, you know, there was always something I would write about the Canucks from here and there and from time and time and always, you know, numbers inclined guy. So I'd write about the Connucks from that perspective. But yeah, the fact that I do is every day, that's my job. I have to sit and think about it. What do I want to say? What is there? know what are people wondering about that that's been it's been a fun interesting challenging experience and and then taking on the road you know you learn a new routine because you know the expectation in terms of in terms of what you're producing is you know for work

it's it's it's it's the same but it's also you know you're there the fact that you're being paid to be with the team makes a difference. You know, you're not hanging, it's not like the old days where you're hanging out with the players. You're hanging out at the bar. I mean, yeah, I mean, the stories you hear,

it's hilarious from the old days, you know, from 30 years ago when, you know, before the players were making all the money they were making, often the writers made more money than the players and the writers had an expest account. That's why the players were hanging out with you. Yeah. And before social media. You know, and of course, all that too as well.

But you still see them. You know, you think about like Tampa, the hotel we stayed at in Tampa was actually the same hotel as the team. Usually that's not the case. The team is usually, you know, the team stays at quite nice,

high-end hotels. You know, you're booking nicer, you know, I've stayed at Marriott. I'll stay at, you know, but also stay at like,

you know, the Fairfield Suites or whatever, right. Winnipeg or whatever. You know, you're sort of staying where's convenient. Sometimes it's nice. Sometimes it's whatever.

But that was, you know, that was kind of a funny one because there they are and they're kind of there, where are you? And you'd run into Jim Benning on the elevator and you'd say, hey, how's it going? And, you know, you'd have a nice little conversation.

And that was not, you know, that was something that you don't necessarily get here because, you know, they live, you know, the players live around town. But, you know, obviously, you're not generally watching them on the street. Right. You know, coaches and people live, you know, they might be, you know, someone listening to this podcast might have a team executive as their neighbor or they might have a player as their neighbor. Right. But that's not a common thing. So, you know, that was kind of a interesting. that was an interesting moment on the trip. And then finding out how to get into a rink. Thankfully, one of the local TSN radio guys, Jeff Patterson here. He did it all last year.

He does every game. Jeff's crazy. He goes to every game. And so Jeff had figured out where to go into most ranks. And so he was actually really helpful just saying, hey, just so you know, the gate that you need to find is on this side of the building. And you know, you go in these. You know, most places really helpful, really friendly people.

And they're like, oh, yeah, that's great. You just go down there and, you know, you figure out where the media room is. You figure out how to kind of get around the rink itself. You know, most people sit in the same kind of spot, but it's kind of neat to kind of wander around and get a different sense of what the building's like. You get a sense of how different buildings are run. You know, there's a meal available for you to buy it. most rights.

Well, I'm curious. So, you know, you obviously had access to the team and you cover them even before this season, but now much more on a sort of regular full-time basis, you are seeing the same faces. You know, I'm kind of curious about, for the purposes of doing your job, obviously, you know, players have for the most part been pretty trained at this point of the career to say the right things or sort of not necessarily tell you actually what's in your mind or what would make for a great story because it doesn't really behoove them to do so.

And that's why part of our job is to get that out of them in some capacity. And, you know, you obviously become familiar with personalities. And sometimes, you know, okay, maybe if I phrase it in this certain way, this will resonate more with this particular player. Or sometimes, you know, like, this guy has a no flies. Oh, and like, there's no, you can ask him in any which way you want in any language, but he's not going to give you anything good. But, like, sort of how has that interplay gone on in your first six weeks?

Like, I'm very curious about that. It's been pretty good. I mean, some of the people might have seen Sven Berci's reaction to one of my questions, which I was straight up trying to confirm that the deke went as planned. And, you know, I mean, I understood his reaction. In hindsight, it was a loss. You know, the team had lost and he called it a rude question. But we talked about it.

You talk about it. You know, it's good. There is a dynamic and you talk about it afterwards. And, you know, I think, you know, from their perspective, I understand why they can be standoffish because while talking to the media is sort of a required part of their job, it's a weird part of their job because they just play hockey. And I know that people are talking about hockey. You know, the fact that we're kind of quizzing them about their job performance every day, I can understand why that might be, why that might grate some people. Yeah.

And so, yeah, as a result, you get their arguments. that just, you know, they're just not worth interviewing. There are guys that are already clear, I mean, they're clearly worth interviewing because they're always happy to talk. That's their natural personality. I already mentioned, you know, I mentioned Jake Fratanna. Antoine Roussel has emerged locally as a guy. And I'm sure people who listen from Dallas know that he's a funny, you know, funny person

who's confident talking. And so, you know, sort of to go back to the original sort of premise of your question, it was like, how do you know, dealing with them every day? I mean, I'm a big, I'm a big lever in essentially asking what happened. You know, tell me, tell me about your day. Right. You know, but like. I used to hate that when I had to come home.

My mom would be like, tell me about your day. Yeah, you know, but like you're sitting from above. I said, I saw this. You know, we saw this goal, like the Pedersen goal. I asked for Tannen. Like, what do you sit and think about on the bench? You know, and it's, it's a, you know, I mean, it's a bit of a news reporter's trick. You know, tell, what were you thinking about?

You try to help people through their own process. And so that actually because people like talking about stuff like that. And often too, you learn because there's always a few of you. It's never, I mean, you can make it one on one about certain things. But when people are involved in a controversial goal or a penalty or whatever, you know, there's a few of us. And, you know, I would say most players, most players, In the end, they're pretty honest. Like, I think we were in, you know, I can't remember, I can't remember where it was, but, you know, Dick and Markstrom had had a bad, bad game.

And he actually was the wild seven-six game, right, victory over Colorado. And he said, well, you know, I wish I had something to do with that win. You know, and he was honest. Yeah. And, you know, it's smart on their part because it kind of deflates the kind of old, the old school, which was kind of badger the guy, you know, kind of deflates that kind of, which is smart on their part. But, and it helps you tell your story. I'm not, I mean, to me. In the end, it's like, I'm trying, you know, when I'm writing, say I'm writing a game story, you know, everyone, everyone watched the game.

Yeah. Right. What I'm trying to do is trying to add something that maybe they missed, something that was interesting. Yeah, provide some context. Right. Something I think it helps under explain. We call it the what we learn format. We chunk it out.

So it kind of ends up being four or five things. I try to put some sort of actual, you know, statistical performance based stuff. You know, so talk about who had a good night in terms of. shot attempts. Maybe someone is having a hard time and shot attempts. Why that's a problem.

You know, there's a couple other guys out there now that track micro stats and I'll be talking to them during the game. What do we think about so-and-so or whatever? And I'll try to throw that in. But see, like, and I do,

I get it. Like after a game, especially if it might not have gone the way you would have liked as a player, like, I'm sure the last thing you want to do is, you know, you're sitting there all sweaty or maybe you just got out of shower and it's like, now I have to deal

with all these cameras and all these questions, and you don't really want to talk about it. You just want to decompress. Like, I get it. I think, and obviously, you know, that's part of the job. And I still think there's a place for it. Like, I just, I'm not sure what the right answer is.

But, for example, I'll give you a great example of this. I forget when it was. It might have been during the preseason player media tour thing that happens or whatever. But my good buddy, Alex Pruitt, had a thing with Nikita Kuturov, where he got to sit down with him for a bit more of an extended period of time. And they, like, went back and rewerewold. watch some of his previous goals from the prior year or assist, I think he had because he didn't want to talk about his goals. And you got to like sort of, you kind of get a peek behind the card

or sort of a look into what makes some of these players tick in terms of what he's, and so they went like frame by frame and he's explaining what he saw on the ice and he remembers it. And so stuff like that is, I think, just so insightful and cool and you get this view into this player's mind and you sort of get this added context to what you saw. happen on the ice. And so stuff like that, I understand why obviously at the end of a game, you can't be doing stuff like that. But obviously, but especially if you're covering the team, especially if it's, you know, they have a four-day break or something and a bunch of practices, like stuff like that is like, you know, it's not my job. My job is more, much more as sitting

at home and sort of analyzing from there. But like, I do give a lot of respect to the people who do that on a full-time basis on a day-to-day basis because I think there are a lot of useful nuggets that glean from it. Well, thank you. No, but I mean, I'm just buttering you up. Thanks. No, to me, that's kind of what I was trying to get at. At the end of the day, like, post-con quotes mostly are not that useful. And the people asking the questions usually know it and they just need to hit these. Yeah.

So they can put the quote in their story. There are some old school narrative reasons for it that mostly I try to avoid. Yeah. And that I try to say, you know, because now, especially now that you, once you know how the routine works, you know, so whether home or away, it's the same. So the game's over. You know, the team is allowed to keep the room close for five minutes. And then you're in.

And it's basically, in theory, you can get anybody you want. You know, people probably heard this, but NHL locker rooms now at home, you know, they set up two rooms.

They change in a different room. They put on all their, they're like, I mean, they're not even long johns, but like their workout, workout, they will recognize them as workout clothes.

Yeah. They have leggings and, you know, long-sleeved shirts. Yeah. and they change into that in the other room and then they come in to the room where their hockey gear is

and they put on their hockey gear and it always faces me that we get the five minutes we get in and there's like 80% of the room is now empty. Those guys have scrambled and in those five minutes you know that the coach is coming in and said something

and that maybe one of the players has said something. So these guys literally are just, it's almost like they probably have like it's like they have a parachute. They're pulling the zip line. and it just boom all their clothes all their gear falls off and they're like but you know what you know i get it because like there's certain guys that hang around because they know they're going to be want to talk to usually it's you know usually the media guys like it's probably

to be this guy and this guy yeah but you know you can ask for other players and so players will come back and you'll talk to them sometimes they're still in their workout gear sometimes they're in there already in their suits and a shower or whatever um but you do that and then the coach talks and you kind of know how that routine goes and and you know there's always the obvious questions and someone will ask the obvious question. And then you've got something else you're curious about something you're thinking about. I mean, the way we do it at our papers, yeah, we do a game story. Like I said, this is what we learn the thing. We send it out the door. Usually I don't have to put any quotes back into that because it's going in the paper and the paper

has to be printed and by the time the game's over, you don't have time. Sometimes you'll go back. If there was a fun little thing that someone said, you'll throw it in. And then I do a post-game story. I call it Canucks at night, and I try to have a bit of everything. And it's a bit of, you know, a few conversations with a couple players, you know, some stat stuff, something that maybe was interesting that the coach said. And you go with that. And that's kind of becomes your routine. And once you learn how that flow works, you start understanding, okay, here's what I can actually achieve in terms of what I'm trying to do in terms of telling the story of the night and also having that play into the story of the season, which, of course, is an ongoing rolling. Right.

entity on its own. And then, yeah, and then, and then as you said, you know, some days you might have a couple days off. I mean, that happened on the road trip. So we had that the road to the, that first connects road trip was really weird because there were no back to backs. And in fact, there were two extra days. So, um, I picked it up in Carolina.

They had an extra day in Carolina. Uh, then we went, we had, you know, they played in Carolina. Then it was, we traveled one day, game in Tampa, travel one day, game. in Fort Lauderdale. And then there was another day off. There was an extra day off in Pittsburgh. And that gave you an extra day to travel. And of course,

that was in the middle of the whole Pedersen concussion story. And so you're sort of on those days off, you know, the Canucks, sorry, NHL teams get a prescribed day off every week. So one day off, they don't practice.

They don't do anything. The players are allowed to go do whatever they want. So you're, like four night? Well, if you're the Canucks, not on the road. So glad we didn't get into that.

But, uh, um, no, you end up with, you know, yourself, you're having,

especially when you're on the road, you're having to deliver a story every day. So you end up working some ridiculous amount of time and you get that time back when you come back. Um, and yeah, so you're thinking of new ideas. You're thinking about what's an interesting thing. You're constantly having to,

you know, especially when you have those days coming up, you're thinking ahead. So you're like, okay, uh, it's a Canucks practice day. So I'm going to talk to this guy and this guy.

and this guy, and then I'm also going to talk to this guy because I think he's got an interesting thing to say about the story I need to date. Two days from now, hopefully I can talk to one of the coaches. You're trying to build stuff. And so you start, you know, you're working on the story that you're pushing out today, but then you're also thinking about what are things that I'm working on down the road. And, yeah, so you end up just kind of, you get into this flow. And then you also have to learn how to build time in for yourself because otherwise your brain's

going to explode. Yeah. You go for a swim or you go. go for a walk around town. You try to learn a bit about the city you're in and get a sense of what's around you. And I mean, people ask me what my favorite city was hilariously. Actually, it was Winnipeg when I was on that road trip because I got one of the nicest, it was the last stop. It was well, but it was also, I got one of the nicest six days of the year in Winnipeg. Yeah. Like, it was just a beautiful day. And I got, I did a fair bit of walk. I like walking.

I walked around a fair bit. A friend of mine used to live there. So he'd given me a couple places to check out to, you know, coffee and have some lunch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was, yeah, and then like, and then, and then, and then you're back to the rink, you know, and you're thinking about what's the next story going to be and what, what do people want to know and what are people, what are people curious about and what are, what are I think is been missing, you know, I mean, that's the other one is that you come into a job like this, uh, you find yourself thinking, okay, well, what it always, what I always think could have been done better because we all have opinions. Everyone says, oh, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about, you know, like, so you say, okay, well, Why don't I do that? Or what of, you know, so, yeah, that's a bit of a rambling answer. I don't remember where we started. No, I'm looking forward to following your journey. And if anyone listening, you have Patrick's here.

If you have any story ideas or if you've ever wanted to get certain answers from players, pitch it to Patrick. Before we get out of here, I do want to, I always forget to do this. And my producer gives me crap. I want to tell people to go to iTunes and rate and review the podcast. It's important. It's very important. It gets you up the list.

It shoots me up the list. It's good. We've got 400 reviews already. Five stars. 400? 400. Five stars. Any one star?

So we're pretty prestigious. There's a couple one stars. But I think, you know, those are just so we remain modest. I don't want to go in my head. You went and put those yourself? Yeah. I got to keep myself in check. But it'd be great to get more of you out there, leaving positive reviews, hopefully.

And if you've enjoyed the show, I don't want to be telling you, to do if you didn't like the show, then don't Leamifies her review. But another thing is, this might be kind of silly because you're already listening to the show, but the podcast is on Spotify now. So if that's your cup of tea and you've been listening there

through other mediums and Spotify's better for you, go check it out there as well, and you can follow the show. That's big leagues. Big time. Patrick, this was a lot of fun, man. I'm glad we finally got to do this. People can follow you at Rising Action on Twitter and pitch you story ideas and

recommendations for cities when you're on the road. I also, also Instagram, at Patty Jay on the road is my work. Check out all your ties and all of your Poverish outfits. I'm trying to do my best Filipovich out there, you know? I've been enjoying it, man. This is a blast. Let's do this sometime again soon. All right, buddy.

The Hockey P.D.Ocast with Dim Philipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey pdfast.