The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 266: West Coast Bias

Episode Date: December 14, 2018

John Matisz joins the show to bounce around the Western Conference and look at the most important storylines involving its inhabitants. In this episode we discuss the Blues disastrous start (4:10), whether John Gibson can keep the Ducks in the playoff race (9:30), if this is the year for the Flames to make their move (15:50), whether anyone can challenge Elias Pettersson for the Calder (26:36), the Jets and Predators navigating the regular season (38:15), Mikko Rantanen's insane run (43:20), and the Blackhawks and Kings dramatic fall from grace (49:25). For part two of the crossover, go listen to John's podcast: 'Puck Pursuit' on theScore. There we discuss various Eastern Conference storylines including the Sabres promising start, the Lightning being in a tier of their own, whether the Penguins have another gear, and never betting against Alex Ovechkin. Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $10 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. A reminder that we’re hosting a daily fantasy listener league contest over at FanDuel every Thursday this season. While you wait for the next opportunity to play to come around, go over to fanduel.com/PDO and tell them we’ve sent you. They’ll hook you up with a bonus $5 to play with after your first deposit, which will surely come in handy throughout the year. See you there! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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and sitting across from me in the score podcast studios, my good buddy, John Mattis. John, what's going on, man? Not much. You forgot swanky. It's swanky. It's swanky. Yeah, there's an e-sport sign here. I mean, it's compared to my usual digs. This is a nice reprieve. And I don't think we're getting any ambulances on today's show. No, I'm hoping not. A PDO cast first. I mean, there's a window over there, so maybe. Maybe. Maybe we might need to pipe some in artificially. I'll get my producer on it afterwards. I'm glad we're finally getting to do this. We've been talking about doing it for a while. And the plan today, is we're going to do a two-part crossover. So we're going to do the Western Conference on my podcast, and then we're going to go over to yours, the Puck Pursuit podcast.

Then we're going to do the Eastern Conference version. So hopefully people listen to it. I mean, they don't have to listen to that order. It's totally fine. If they're listening to this, it's probably first. No, it's got to be yours first. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, we're going to have so many inside jokes on the second episode. So it's going to make no sense if you don't listen this first. Okay. So when I was looking at the Western Conference, we're going to do sort of, we're going to jump around. We're going to talk about the most interesting

storylines, maybe the questions facing some of the teams involved. The most interesting thing to me in the West right now, and I did not see this coming heading into the year, is that both of the wildcard teams currently are in the Pacific Division, and it looks like we could potentially have five Pacific Division teams in the Western Conference playoffs, which obviously it's still in the early going. And, you know, at this point, it's like one game, it's like a one or two point difference, so very easily Dallas could claw in, Minnesota could claw in. I think St. Louis's season so far has been one of the most surprising storylines to me,

but do you think this can continue? And do you think this is, I mean, are you surprised? I am because I definitely did not see this coming. No, no. It's really odd. And even, I feel like it's come on pretty quickly here as of late with the Pacific all of a sudden becoming a quote unquote juggernaut in this conference. Like I think what it comes down to is that the St. Louis Blues were supposed to hang with,

I don't know if they were supposed to hang with Nashville and Winnipeg, but be like a peg below them. And they've been utterly disappointing. Chicago's been worse than I thought that they would be. Like, don't get me wrong, I didn't expect them to make the playoffs, but the fact that them in L.A. are hanging out at the basement of the Western Conference and the league overall is pretty concerning and surprising. And then, you know, the Vancouver Canucks started off strong and they've tailed off, but they're still, you know, they're technically not out of it.

and they could, you know, grab one of those wild card spots hypothetically. So when you sort of mix it all together and blend it, it compared to, let's say, the Eastern Conference, and we're going to get to that obviously later on my podcast. But there's been a lot of negative stories, I'll say, in the Western Conference teams, like just kind of plummeting, whereas the East, I feel like there's a few that are outperforming expectations, like, you know, the HABs or the Islanders. So I guess it's a product of a lot of things going wrong. And now we're seeing the Pacific kind of out of nowhere in my mind, especially when the ducks are in second in that division.

Like that alone is confusing me. Yeah. And I mean, if you told me before the year that we'd be in this current situation with the five teams representing them, I'd be like, all right, well, Arizona's got to be one of them just because they came in with so much preseason hype and how strongly they ended last season. And obviously, I guess one of the keys to picking them as a sleeper of this team this year was, oh, hopefully we're going to finally see 55 to 60 games from Antiranta. and now he might be out for the season and at least for the foreseeable future. And that's kind of a big time bus kill for them. And very disappointing because you'd like to see just based on his per game stats how good he's been for him to take that next step and be a workhorse number one goalie in the league.

But yeah, I think St. Louis, I think you undersold a little bit how big of disappointment it's been because I was talking them up quite a bit in the summer. I didn't love their moves from a long-term perspective when you look at the contract, especially for a guy like Tyler Bozac, you think, okay, you know, they probably overpaid and maybe two, three years down the line. It's going to look bad. But if you just looked at it for this year for 2018-19, it looked like all the moves were going to be a net positive. And this was a team that was already decent to begin with last year. So you would think for sure they could, I don't think no one, anyone thought they'd join Winnipeg and Nashville there, but I thought they were pretty safe

as kind of that third team in the Central Division and maybe overall in the Western Conference. And I mean, they've already gotten their coach fired. I don't know what's going on in that there. I think Jake Allen is a train wreck. And I'm sure they're looking for other. options, maybe Vili Huso comes up and finally shoulder some of that workload. But it's so bizarre. And then you're hearing all these rumors about Petrangelo potentially being moved, but he's on the IR now. Vlad Tarasenko might be available. I mean, it seems like a team that's in massive turmoil. And I forgot who it was, so I can't give them credit for it, but someone made a joke because I was tweeting about how the Blackhawks have completely bottomed out. And they're like, man, even at sucking,

the Blackhawks are better than the St. Louis Blues. So, I mean, nothing can go right for that team, apparently. No, it's, it's really disheartening, really, right? When you think about what, what they were able to accomplish in the off season, like, you know, Tyler Bozac, okay, he's not going to change the world, but he's kind of just been there all season, just whatever, not really a difference maker. Ryan O'Reilly's looked excellent, so you give them a checkmark there. David Prawn's had a nice transition back to St. Louis, but so, so you don't really necessarily focus on what they did in the summer when you're thinking about, you know, how do I diagnose what's going on there. Right. It's the other parts of the roster and I you know they they they fire their coach and and now the clock I feel like

is ticking on the GM there uh with Armstrong and I just I don't know what they do at this point in the season because we're about 40% through about 30 games for each team like this season is unless they go on some incredible run is is just it's gone it's gone they got they got to throw the towel in that sense so do they approach say the deadline which is in a couple of months so they have some time to really think it over. But do they approach that as like a fire sale or do they kind of hold, hold on to what they've acquired over the summer and obviously the Tarasankos and Petroangelo's of their of their team or, you know, I just, it's really, it's really gone just so south that you

start kind of bringing up existential questions about this team, right? It's not, it's not that they're, they're even, you know, within an arm's length of, of the playoffs right now and it just keeps getting worse. Like you brought up with the Tarasenko rumors like, really, would they ever think about trading a guy like Teresanko? And it sounds like the report there was kind of misconstrued by an aggregator or whatever. But at the end of the day, the fact that Teresanko's name is even like, you know,

being discussed over the phone between GMs. That says there's some serious issues in St. Louis and it goes far beyond what was done in the summer. For sure. Yeah, I think we definitely get carried away with that as fans and analysts. Like every player is technically. available for the right price. Like, I guess at this point, if Peter Sherelli traded Con and Rick David, I think there

might be, like, legitimate riots in Edmonton. But, I mean, you know, every player has their price and everyone's available. And obviously, when you hear a guy like Teresanko get brought up in discussions, that's going to, you know, raise some eyebrows. He's a heck of a player. For whatever reason, people seem to not be willing to buy in on him as an elite player. But I don't know. Like, the Blues are pretty committed to this team.

I mean, I'm just looking at their cap-friendly page. And for the most part, it's a lot of it. guys who are on the books for at least three, four more years. So it's like, you know, they have good players for sure. They could cut bait on and actually get something back for, but there's not a lot of like expiring tangible pieces here that they could strip if they became a seller at this year's deadline. And the other bizarre thing is like, I just thought they'd be so much deeper. I mean, maybe we got too excited about prospects like Robert Thomas and Jordan Kairu stepping up and for whatever reason. It hasn't worked out yet. And I'm sure, you know, they have bright years ahead of them. But I don't know.

it's one of those things where you kind of want to say, let's just stay the course and stay patient, but obviously when you have this much money tied up to veteran players and you're not performing, something's eventually going to give. And they didn't even get that, you know, coach firing, coach hiring,

bounce back that we sometimes see where teams the first at least handful of games play a little bit better, it's kind of just been stagnant flatline in St. Louis. Well, when you look at all the coach firings, right, the only new coach that is Hitchcock, that's seen an impact, that's seen the wins come along with their, residents. So it's, I don't know, like you said, St. Louis, like their roster isn't set up necessarily

even, you know, for them to be, you know, the talk of the West this season anyways, but it's just the fact that it went sideways so quickly off the hop here that you start kind of scratching your head and thinking of alternatives. And it's never good when, when, you know, Petriangelo's name, the captain is out there as a rumor, right? So I would imagine in that dressing room, things aren't very, aren't very pleasant at this moment. Well, so if we look at the Pacific Division, I think we both agree that, and like if you're looking for positives

for the Central Division, you're thinking, okay, if you're a fan of Dallas or Minnesota, how can you claw back into this? And obviously you're within striking distance to begin with, but who's going to fall out? And I'd say we do obviously both point to Anaheim as sort of being the obvious team just based on sort of how flimsy their resume is

as the playoff team right now. At the same time, though, you know, the thing that's worked for them is they've had the best goaltending in the league. And Ryan Miller's out now. They got brought Chad Johnson and we'll see how that works. But I mean, John Gibson's saved like over 20 goals above average right now. And he's trending towards having the best individual goalie season we've really seen in

analytics era. And maybe he can't continue being this good for the rest of the season. But I don't think anyone's expecting him to all of a sudden fall back off and turn into a pumpkin either. So if you're just looking at the blueprint for how Anaheim is going to tread water and remain in the playoff bubble, like the formula seems pretty legit from that perspective. though I don't think their ceilings that high, like eventually, like we saw in last year's first round series against San Jose, that lack of team speed is going to catch up to them and the lack of depth.

But in terms of this regular season, I feel like you'd pick them as the most obvious regression candidate, but I'm not sure how much we can realistically expect them to really regress. Yeah, you hit on it there at the end with the regression candidate, because they have the, they have minus 10 goal differential. Not good for a playoff team at this point in the season. Like, that's a fair amount of goals there.

Which hints, you know, John Gaines. Ibson is standing on his head most nights and it's working out okay in the short term. But, you know, to go along with that is the shot numbers, the attempt numbers, the scoring chance numbers, where typical of Randy Carlyle teams, they're just getting crushed in every metric. And it's just not a recipe for success. Like as we've seen year and year, year after year, I should say, there is one team that somehow squeaks into the playoffs with these terrible underlying numbers. And maybe given the start that they've had and the runway they've given themselves, maybe it's the ducks.

Yeah. But like you take, like if you just extrapolate John Gibson, how good is this team? Especially when you factor in injuries like right now, Cam Fowler's out. Yeah. Ricard Raquel's out. Cory Perry, you mentioned Ryan Miller, who's been really good. I should, should add along with Gibson, that tandem in general has been stellar. So when you take out John Gibson, like, what is this team?

And it's almost unfair to the guy to expect him to over an 82 game season be the guy. Like there's so many nights where you're, you know, you see the Twitter screenshots. They're getting out shot like 30 to, literally 30 to 5 after the second. And I'm not even like making that up. That's, that happens. It's just, I have no faith in this team, but they've given themselves a very, very good head starter. I know. It's kind of like old hat at this point for us to, you know, talk about Randy Carlis and his effect on it.

But when I'm looking at the roster, I mean, obviously, Corey Perry's not the player he once was, but we're expecting him to come back sometime around, I feel like, late January maybe, and he'll at least be another piece for them to use. Otherwise, though, like, I actually, obviously guys, like, if you have Pontus Abberg playing on your top line, you're probably reaching for straws. But I think he's, like, a nice little player, if he's one of your depth guys. I mean, Andre Kasha, I really love. Ryan gets off while he's healthy is still one of the best centers in the league.

There's pieces there, and especially with the blue line, it's not that slow of a team, which is always why it's kind of surprising, like, when you watch that series against San Jose last year, they're skating laps around them and making them look silly. And you're like, wow, this is a really slow old team. But if you actually look at the parts right now, I mean, they trade for Daniel Sprong, Nick Ritchie. Like they have quite a bit of youth and maybe they're over relying on it. I know early in the year they were really relying on guys like Sam Steele and Isaac Lundstrom

and they were getting caved in with some of the most shocking underlying numbers you possibly ever see. And they clearly weren't ready yet. But like this is a team that's drafted well and they have quite a bit of depth. And maybe there's a mismatch and timeline between where that youth is in their developmental curve and where the veterans are and they can't find that harmony there. But I don't think like they're as bad as their underlying numbers look, but they've been going on for so long now that you sort of eventually have to go like, okay, well, you know, the coach and the system and whatever

else is going on here is probably the real deal. So I don't think it's reasonable to expect for them to suddenly get better at 5-1-5, but I don't know if they're going to get that much worse just because their goal-endings is going to keep them in it on a night-to-night basis. So it's pretty tricky. Like if I was a team like Dallas especially with what they have committed to this roster right now and you're sitting on the outside, whereas a team like that is, is hanging on to a playoff spot, a third of the way into the season, like, I'd be scratching my head and wondering what's going on and how do I amend that, because it's, uh, it's pretty concerning. We're, we're almost approaching the halfway point at this point. Like, it's, uh, it's time to start

taking some of these numbers pretty seriously. Yeah. The thing with the Ducks is I, like, I feel like almost every year I get excited about their roster and like, even guys, like, even guys like, who have come through the ranks over the last few years, like Montour and Manson, like, somehow they develop these guys, even though they always end up finishing at the top of the standings. And I don't know what it is about it. Again, like we don't want to harp on the Randy Carlisle angle, but there's something about his system that takes a team kind of out of its, it's kind of preferred state

and brings them down this road where they end up like just, it doesn't make sense, right? So I guess, I guess the ducks are an interesting case in terms of the talent on their team and the youth coming in and does it align this year. I don't know if it does. Like maybe, maybe we wait one more. year, but then again, you start talking about Corey Perry and gets left. Yeah. So it's like you said, it's, it's the trickiest part I think about building in the NHL in this era is like finding ways that

your youth can intersect with your, your older team or sorry, the older players on your team. Like you see with the Winnipeg Jets right now, they're at a perfect sort of pinnacle where they have Kyle Connor, Patrick Lainey, etc. coming through while Bufflin, Wheeler Little are still in their prime or just exiting their prime and I feel like Anaheim is almost just you know kind of the reverse of that where they have some decent young players coming up but they have no middle ground right um a team that's so there's three teams in the pacific division that are really catching my eye in terms of how high their ceiling could realistically be realistically be and whether one of them could potentially even challenge a team like Nashville and winnipeg because i think are we still in agreement that

winnipeg and national are the two best teams in the western conference yeah absolutely so if one of these teams is going to challenge them it seems like San Jose on paper would be the one with the highest upside just because we've seen flashes this year of sort of that next gear they can hit that seems like it's higher than anyone else is when everything's really firing on cylinders, when their defense pairs are humming, when they're rolling four lines, and when Martin Jones can at least just be like a league average goalie to kind of keep them in it and not submarine them. But I look at this Calgary team and they really, I keep circling back to them just because

the offensive firepower they have is so tremendous there. and I guess it's ultimately going to come down to whether they're a goal to and they can hold up. And I wonder if, you know, Mike Smith's been one of the worst goalies in the league this year. I know he had a bit of a hot stretch here recently, but I don't think he's very reliable. I'm not sure how much you can expect from David Brick. So I wonder if they're going to be a team that's going to be potentially linked to potentially linked, I don't know what other golies are available. Maybe if Columbus falls out of the race, maybe Sergey Bobrovsky comes appealing.

But, like, I think this team is one, at least viable goalie away from potentially jumping into that pantheon of Western Conference teams. Yeah, a couple of things here. You do the watchability rankings at the beginning of the season. I don't know where you had Calgary. I think I was too low on them. Yeah, I don't know where you had Calgary, but it's got to be like top five now. Yeah, their games have been tremendous. And sometimes for the wrong reasons, for their fans, I'm sure they're going to really,

the blood pressure is pretty high. But I mean, yeah, they've been remarkable to watch. Yeah, even last night, we're recording this on, what day is it again? Today, it's Thursday afternoon. Yeah, so Wednesday night, they end up coming back and winning in overtime and just Johnny Johnny Guadro and in OT as usual. But when you mix in Guadro, Kachuk. Even Mike Smith is a fun

going to watch because it was, you know, puck handling abilities and whatnot. They, you know, they they're pretty high up there on my list. And even Sam Bennett, he's found his niche as kind of this annoying puck retriever guy who couldn't put in the odd point. But you know, to your larger point,

I was thinking about this today. Like, it's, I guess it's a matter of how how many, like, do they want to put their chips in the middle of the table this year? Because if so, then go after Bobrovsky, assuming he's available. Otherwise, I guess you try to weather the storm with Ridditch and Mike Smith, but it's, you know,

winning so fleeting, right? In sports, like, do you really, if you're leading the Pacific near the trade deadline, do you want to just sit on your hands? I don't know. And like, it's not like it's been a small stretch here with Mike Smith. Like, this is a guy who is just up and down, up and down throughout the years. And even this year, he goes on a nice streak and then, you know, he falls off a cliff. He goes on a nice street, falls off a cliff.

So if you are a serious contender, and I don't know what the internal outlook is, at least in regards to the short term, but you got to think that they're in the flames front office. They're thinking about who can we possibly target because we don't want this to go sideways because of a goaltending issue. Right. And I mean, last year was obviously disappointed with them not making the playoffs, but two years ago, you know, I believe they got swept by the ducks in that first round series. But like every one of the games came down to the wire or some sort of shenanigans. happened and it was pretty much just Brian Elliott just completely fell apart in that series and that team was probably good enough to actually make a little bit of a run. So I wonder how much of that factors into it well. There must be like a psychological element where it's like you don't want to enter the playoffs again with all those questions because I imagine it would be very disheartening. And I wonder, do we kind of downplay this stuff? Do we place enough emphasis or enough value on what guys like Johnny Goodrow do for the guys around them? Because, you know, we typically just think of this stuff in a vacuum, especially with shooting percent. and we go, you know, there's only so much an individual player can do, but whether it's been guys like Henrik Sidene in the past or Joe Thornton in his prime, like they've shown that if you

put someone next to them with at least a certain baseline level of capability, they're going to probably elevate their ceiling as a finisher quite a bit. And look at what Elias Linnholme's done this year. I know he came into the league with really high pedigree and he was part of that McKinnon class with Monaghan and all those guys. But I mean, for four or five years there, I'm not sure how much of it was the Carolina stink and how much of it was, is Johnny Goodrow now? But he's going to score like 30-something goals while shooting 15 to 20 percent. And you look at the goals he's scoring and it's very legit.

It's for the most part Johnny Goodroll attracting a ton of attention and giving him the puck and right in his wheelhouse and him just hammering it home. And it's like, man, this is pretty valuable. And I wonder if we place enough emphasis on, there's obviously not the many guys that can do that. But it's so valuable because Goodro does it for himself, but he also makes everyone around him that much better. This is why hopefully we'll get our hands on some statistics like gravity score. I know you've talked about this in the past.

It's just like Johnny Goodroo kind of just stick handle his way anywhere, right? And their guys are drawn to him. And then when they're drawn to him, the puck's on his teammates stick. And, you know, Linholm, he comes over in the Hamilton trade. And he's kind of like the forgotten piece, right? Because everyone's excited about Hanifton. Oh, you know, Bill Peters can really, you know, mold this guy into something special. And Haniffin's been pretty good.

but I'd say Lynn Holm is the guy who's jumping off the page at this point. With that in mind and not going off on a tangent too much, but has that trade at least in the short term or what? That was in the summer. So let's say six months. Does that a win-win at this point? Because Adam Fox is actually doing well in Carolina. Obviously, Dougie Hamilton is doing his thing?

Like, is that almost like a nice win-win there? Yeah, and obviously Michael Furlin was looking great at the start of the year with Sebastian Ajo now he's out with injury. But, you know, he seems like at least like one of those guys that can bounce around the top of your lineup up and play with other great players and do at least a serviceable enough job. Yeah, I think Hamilton's obviously been a little bit disappointing. Like, his numbers are still good, but he hasn't taken that leap that people were hoping for in a new situation where he'd hopefully just finally, the training wheels would come off

and he'd play 25 minutes a night. And at this point, I don't know if that's ever going to happen. I don't know what's going on there. But it's for Carolina, I mean, you just look, they're having a historically bad offensive season in terms of shooting percentage. And there's been something going on with the numbers there for long enough, and it's probably above your and my pay grade to try and figure out what that is. But I mean, they give away Jeff Skinner the summer and he's got over 20 goals already.

They give away a last land home. He's already got 16. And obviously both those guys are in great situations that thrive playing next to Jack Eichl and Johnny Goodrow respectively. But so I don't think they'd be having the types of seasons they are right now in Carolina. But considering the offensive struggles and considering the two players we're talking about there, like it's, that's a pretty tough pill to swallow for Carolina and their fan base that they're watching these guys just completely explode offensively while this team struggles to score one or two goals on a given night. Don't worry, Cliff Poo is going to come through the ranks.

He's going to explode. Oh, and that third round pick they got in 2021, it's going to light it up. And I know Eric Tulski's watching. I apologize, we had to go there. No, I don't know. The flames, like, I was high on them last year coming into the season and obviously they disappointed. I was high on them this year, but I think a lot of people were waiting for them to

kind of prove something before they got behind them. But when I looked at the Pacific Division and start, to going through all the teams and, you know, the strong back end in Calgary and the high end skill up front. I just thought this is sort of, this is their entry point to being near the top of the division because as we discussed off the top, like the expectations for the Pacific was, we're pretty low. McDavid's always a factor, you know, and in turn, the oilers are always a factor. But like, you know, in Vegas, everyone thought regression, but how far. So like, I thought Calgary was going to be pretty solid this year, first or second in the division. and they're doing it right now,

but I think they're the way they're doing it, I guess you could say, and how they're winning games, I think is beyond my expectations. Yeah, it is. And we'll see. I know that they've notoriously, in the past under Brad True Living,

been reluctant to go out at the deadline and make a big splash. I remember last year, while they were kind of on the fringe of a playoff spot there, we were all pointing to that wing spot next to Cachuk and Backlin and going,

if they can upgrade from Michael Froley here with a guy who can actually convert some of the possession. these guys are generating and we were looking at guys like Mike Hoffman and so on and so forth. They were reluctant to do so just because they do have their own internal cap and they also have all this other stuff to consider. So historically they've been kind of reluctant to do so, but I wonder just with the landscape right now and with how good this team is, whether they look around and they go, this might be our chance to really optimize on all this. And unfortunately,

what they could really use is what they thought they were getting in James Neal this summer. and that's kind of been one of the big disappoints. I think it's been stunning to watch him play because the numbers are one thing, but just from the eye test, he looks so washed up right now. He just can't move around the ice. I used to make these jokes about how Jerome McGillow could score 20 goals.

As a 50-year-old, you just need to wheel him to the spot and get in the buck and he'll shoot it. They literally need to wheel James Neal to the scoring areas right now because he physically cannot get there himself. What is it? I don't know, there's some old cliche about your hands are the last things to go, and so you assume, like James Neal, okay, even on the power play.

Like, for example, with Sam Gagne and what he's, you know, not necessarily this year, but in the past, how he was able to sort of parlay himself into this new type of player on the power play, but also a fourth liner in Columbus. Like, Neil hasn't even been able to reach that low bar, right? So, yeah, it's been, that's a good point. I honestly had overlooked that, but Neil's been a huge disappointment. Yeah. Okay, John, let's take a quick little break here to hear from a sponsor,

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Now let's get back to the show. Okay, here's my next question for you. Can anyone catch Elias Pedersen in the Calder Trophy, or has it already been locked up, and is there a big bow tied around that trophy for him? A month ago, I said this is a no-brainer. It's Elias Pedersen's award. But with the emergence, and this isn't an overnight emergence, but Mirajikin and Rasmus

Dahlene and Brady Kachuk, maybe, but there's now a four horse race in my opinion. I think Patterson, if I'm betting on it, I'm betting on him 10 times at a 10. But in terms of like actually having some competition, it's there now. I wrote about Rasmus Dahlin maybe a month ago. I went down to Buffalo and like even then the buzz around the team was like not only is this guy 18 and in the NHL, which is as a defenseman like actually like historically kind of an anomaly. But he's actually doing all these sort of quote unquote veteran things, all these subtle things already. And that was, you know, 10, 20 games into his career. And even since then, as most listeners will will know, based on that.

that gifts that that's been going around of him controlling the puck for what 20 seconds the other night right um this guy's just the poise is there the confidence is there the calmness um you know it's it's one of those things where it's like all all the all the things that you heard about before he was drafted is sort of coming true yeah like you know all the nicholas lidsstrom comparables and i'm not ready to go there yet like he's still so incredibly young but like now i'm starting to see why scouts were literally drooling over this guy so you know, Dahlin, definitely in the conversation. And then Hayskenen is like right there,

especially with the workload that he's had and the fact that he has, you know, for the most part, tackled it. You know, the star's blue line's been a little decimated and, and he's stepped in and not missed a beat, really. Well,

the tricky thing is, I think there's two different questions, right? In terms of the actual call to race, it feels like those defensemen are going to have a tough time putting together enough counting stats offensively to challenge Pedersen, just because we know how these awards usually work in terms of voting. and the voters are going to get wowed by the high point totals.

Was it, was it the last guy? Yeah, yeah. And I think that was kind of a bit of a down year in terms of the class. But similarly, I think people at least factored in how big of an anomaly it was that he was playing at that age in such a big role in NHL at that position.

But with Pedersen, I mean, we'll talk about other guys here in a second, but with him, I was just looking up while you were talking. He's pretty much top 10 in like every offensive category you can look at and it becomes even more impressive when you account for ice time just because he's played.

less than your typical superstars play um you know 20 of his 22 five-on-five points or primary points so it's not even like he's kind of riding i mean his his individual shooting percentages on a shooting percentage are a bit elevated i wonder what that's going to come back down to i wouldn't i wouldn't be surprised if it's higher than league average just because he is that type of a talent but i mean he's been so good and what he's done for that vancouver team just in terms of you talk about watchability just making them relevant in league circles again is uh it's it's an impossible thing to modify it's it's we rarely see one player make that big of a difference from an excitement perspective in that hl and he has done wonders for that team with other guys you know dalin is he's trending upwards

which the case for him would be okay a month from now he could blow this thing wide open just because if he starts playing those rasmus just the line in minutes that the other rasmus has been getting over the years all of a sudden the counting stats could come there as well and you know we've seen him rejuvenate Zach Bekosian. We've seen him play more and more as Phil Houssey's kind of been slowly spoon-feeding him and taking the training wheels off and giving him more opportunity. So I think the sky's the limit for him. I just wonder in terms of his a bit slower start relatively and how much Phil Housie's really willing to unleash him in year one, those could be the only thing stopping him. But in terms of a value perspective to his team and what his future outlook is

like, he's right there with Patterson. Yeah, another thing with Dahlene that I was able to kind of grasp when I went down to Buffalo to cover him. So he was put on Jake McCabe's right wing because McCabe couldn't play on the right side. And this is a guy who was like 10 years into his career. And we hear about it all the time. Handedness is so important on the back end. Well like, Dahlene was fine. And they all of a sudden were just like, I guess we have a right handed defenseman now who shoots left. You know what I

mean? So that's another feather in his cap. And I just think you know, the narrative sort of slowly going towards his way little bit, but at the end of the day, unless something drastic happens, I think Pedersen has this more or less in the bag. I think the more interesting discussion is going to be Heiskenen versus Dahlin, both in terms of who's the best rookie defenseman from this class and sort of moving forward. I think we'd both agree that Dahlin has higher upside. You know, Heiskinin's been interesting because he looks so smooth out there. And with the Klingberg injury, especially, they've relied on him to play like 23 plus minutes a night on the top pair. And unfortunately, the combination of him and

S. Lendell has been kind of caved in a little bit. And it's unfair to judge him negatively for that just because he's still a 19 year old defenseman who, you know, I was looking at this. I wrote about this for a lead prospects the other day. And there's been like Dowdy, Keith and maybe four or five other defensemen who in their rookie season below the age of 21 were playing these types of minutes that he's having. And typically it's a pretty good indicator that if your coach trusts you that much this early into your career, you're going to have a pretty good outlook for yourself. There are certain guys on that list who obviously didn't wind up materializing it does superstar defensemen.

But I think that discussion is going to be fascinating moving forward. It feels like those two guys are going to be kind of pitted against each other. And that, uh, you know, for whatever reason, we're going to like manufacture this artificial rivalry. Yeah, probably. That isn't actually really there. It's like this Eastern Conference, Western Conference version of these two guys who all they they really have in similar is, I guess they're both Scandinavian.

They both came into the league at the same time. And they're both young defensemen, but that's pretty much it. Yeah, and it's sort of a, I mean, it's a market thing too, right? With Dallas being, you know, on the grand, you know, national stage, being forgotten about, compared to, say, Buffalo, which there's a lot of Canadians that watch Sabre's games and they get a lot of kind of love locally. So that's another thing to monitor, too, is like, are we forgetting about Hayeskin in here, you know, amid all this kind of Dahlene and

Pedersen hype in these bigger markets, quote-unquote. Buffalo is kind of a small market, but they love their safety. So that's another thing. Like even just personally, like, based on, you know, what I've consumed, a lot more Pedersen and a lot more Dahlene than Hayskin. And even though I have made, made it a point to check him out because he's, he was, I would say he was like relatively high, like, hyped fairly, fairly high. I mean, the stars didn't want to trade him for Eric Cross in this summer.

So that clearly, like, you know, I know people were high on him as a prospect heading in, but it's like as soon as you hear that and this guy hasn't even played at the N. level yet. I know a lot of people were like, that can't be right. Like, what are they doing? Especially with the trajectory of this franchise where they're kind of all in with this Ben Sagan core. So it would have made sense for them to really push all their chips in. But now when you watch this guy play and he's going to be cost controlled and he's only 19, like I think they're getting vindicated a little bit in their love for him and their reluctance to part with him for a guy who could leave this summer. Yeah. And I, when you look at their blue line, if I'm not

mistaken, I don't have the, their page in front of me, but they don't have much money tied up on the blue line. Yeah, well, Klingberg is one of the most team friend. the contracts. And I mean, does it end up being Klingberg and Hayskinin as like one of the better one, two punches on the back end in the entire league? Like even just right now, maybe. Like you could make the argument that let's say like over the next, you know, five, 10 years that they become kind of a dominant force back there.

Yeah. I think ultimately with this Calder race, like what shifts it in Pedersen's favor. And I talk about this with McDavid where he's reached a higher level of excellence where I don't even look at McDavid versus anyone else in the league currently in terms of that discussion for who's the best player. I look at it as like McDavid versus historically great seasons and what those guys were doing over the years. And with Pedersen, we're not really comparing him to this rookie class anymore because like I think the second leading point getter from this class is like Colin White with 19 points or something and it's nearly half of what Pedersen has. It's more so Pedersen versus just everyone else in the league and all the other stars regardless of where they're at in their individual careers. and that's like the best thing you can say about this guy

that he's still only 20 years old or whatever and he's in his first year and he's already like jumbled into that list of guys who are in their primes who have been playing in the league for five to 10 years. Well, you mentioned the ice time. He also missed five games or so with that concussion. And that could have went.

And still one rookie of the year in October. That could have, yeah, no. Like, as you know, as everyone listening knows, like concussions are no joke. So I was actually thinking during that time, I'm like, is this sort of where the, the story changes and peterson actually becomes just a normal rookie and maybe you know he ends up taking a second block of time off to deal with the you know i mean like things can really um

change when you when you get a concussion but he came back really just as as he was so yeah and you being from the vancouver market i'm sure you feel it every day is is it's a hype like is it at a good level right now or is it like oh is peterson overhyped where like there's now this pressure of being like the next coming of of the sedans i mean it's possible that the pressure could be overly inflated. He seems definitely without like psychoanalizing him, like the type of guy who would handle that in stride and not get, like he just seems so chill about it. He's a little feisty, like a little sassy with the media and stuff. He is for sure. But no, he, I mean, he's been great. And the thing that I've been impressed with is it's not like he necessarily even

has, you know, a running bait that he can fall back on. Like obviously, I think people would love to see him and Brock Besser play together. It seems like a natural fit there. And they've had some good performances his late league together, but Bessor's been in out of the lineup with injuries himself. And, you know, they've tried guys like Goldobin. They've tried Louis Erickson. They've bounced around different guys on his wings. And it hasn't really mattered. Like, there's been a few dry spells there, as you just peck from any player.

But he's been pretty consistent in his performances. And, you know, having two five-point games already is a remarkable feat. And I think the fan base is in Vancouver is so excited about him that they went on some streak there where they lost like eight of 10 games or whatever it was. And normally people would get, you know, want changes. They'd want guys shipped out of town. They'd want something to happen. They'd be down on the team. And no one really cares about wins and losses at this point with his team. It's just like everyone just wants to watch Patterson on a nightly basis, wants to see him do his

thing. And I think they're completely content with however this season works out. And that's, that's amazing. Like for if you're Jim Benning and you're anyone in Vancouver running that team, you're looking at this and you're going like, we just afforded ourselves how much longer of a lease just because we have this guy and we can point to it to him with our ownership and go, well, listen, we kind of found him in the draft and now we're going to develop him and build around him. So that's our vision and give us three more years to try and execute this. And that's remarkable that one guy has that type of capability. And it's reminding me a bit of not to make this Toronto centric, but it's reminded me a little bit about the Leafs a couple years ago where like, oh, Austin Matthews is way better than we thought.

Oh, Mitch Martin. Like it's sort of a surprising, like semi-competitive team where the year before was pretty dreadful. So like it's nice to see from afar that Canucks fans can actually. actually like get excited about something and obviously a horvats been there for a while and you know quinn hughes and everything but like peterson is the guy there now he is oh undoubtedly um and i'm looking at the rest of those western carpets i mean let's get into the central a little bit i feel like we've really been pacific heavy here and for a good reason but like when it comes to national in winnipeg um i just i don't know what else is there is to say like i feel like

we're all just kind of bracing ourselves for that rematch in the second in the second in the second round of the playoffs, unfortunately not the Western Conference Finals. And it's probably going to be another hotly contested 6-7 game series that's going to be really tight. And I'm very curious to see how these two teams position themselves, both in terms of the race, because there's only one point separating them right now. And I guess as we saw last year, home ice might not be that big of a factor, considering Winnipeg went into Nashville and won in game seven.

But I'm sure both teams would love to have that in their back pocket. And both teams, like we saw last year, are probably going to, once. again be buyers and really try to consolidate their teams and shore up any weaknesses. You know, Winnipeg last year brought in Paul Stasney, Nashville overpaid for Ryan Hartman, which was kind of a weird decision on their part. But I'm very curious to see how these two teams look in the stretch run because I feel like they're both going to get a bit of a shot in the arm in the trade deadline market. But right now, I mean, they both look locked and loaded.

And even Nashville, I mean, they've got Forsburg out. They've got BK Subban out and they're still winning games and there's still a really good team. So it's a testament to how deep both those teams are. I feel like they're kind of just navigating this regular season, trying to stay as healthy as possible, because they know just like us that that second round series is going to happen. Yeah, I feel like the Predators are almost entering the Capitals,

old territory, because they ended up winning the Cup, but where every regular season, they're just dominant. And then, you know, the playoffs, you know, in no way are they, you know, considered chokers. But they just, they haven't won it yet. And I feel like we're slowly getting into that point with this team

where year after year, they're so good. They're at the top of the standings. And then, okay, Does Peca Reney stand on his head or does he fall apart? So I have no, I have no like issues with them in terms of roster construction or anything, but I'm sort of like just mentally checking out a bit in terms of like, they're fine, they're awesome, but like, you know, we'll see what happens in the playoffs. And at the same time, I, like even Victor Arvinson, he's having a good year.

There's a few candidates on there who have really kind of stepped up. And even you mentioned the injuries. Like this team has, if you look back, like, I mean, we'd have to actually pull up the rosters. But I feel like David Poil has done a really good job of supplementing or of supporting the core with like all these worker bees. And now they're all sort of, they just have every kind of whole plugged, I guess you could say. Like at points, they didn't have good secondary scoring. Now I think they more or less do. Like obviously you can always add another finish.

sure, but like that's handled. And then obviously the defense is fine. And then, you know, in goal, they have two starters. So I feel like if there is a year, this would be the year where I'd feel extra confident, I guess, about the Nashville Predators. And that's why I'm, I'm a little fatigued on their regular season success. Yeah. No, I think that, I mean, right now they've got Sue Bad, Forsburg, Arvind, and Taurus, all out. And, you know, they're still at least treading water. It's, they're so deep. And I think you're justified in that. I kind of feel the same way where it's like, and I'm sure their fans do a little bit too. Like obviously they have a great fan base who's enjoying this.

And it's still a little bit new just because it's not like this has been going on for a decade. It's been only a couple years now. But you're right. It's unfair. But it's one of those things where we're just not going to be impressed by the regular season. And you're just waiting to see how the playoffs are going to turn out. Yeah, it's not an insult. It's just like the fact of the matter where it's like, it's just how it works.

Washington for years, it's like, wow, dominant again. Ovechkin, another 50 goal season, you know, backs from another 80 point season. And then playoffs come. And then, you know, it just sort of, it kind of messes with your head. Yeah, it does. I wonder, like, Colorado is the third team in that Central Division. And I know that, you know, analytically, they're sort of a middle of a pack team. And people aren't, I feel like there's no consensus whatsoever.

Like, the consensus on Nashville and Winnipeg is that they're the two best teams in Western Conference. They're headed for this collision course. With Colorado, like, depending on where you look on the internet, you're either going to find people who think they're the best team ever or you're going to find people who think they're not going to make the playoffs and they suck and there's like no rational middle ground there and i feel like i'm like on an island they're occupying i just i was just going to say am i like an anomaly because i feel like i'm in the middle just because i i i can't get enough of the tantalizing first line you know same gerard you know tyson berry like they have a lot of like singular pieces that i really like or you know one line here

you know one defense pair here but like as a whole i don't have a lot of faith in them but the fact that they're that they're in the position that they're in right now, I have pretty high hopes for them in terms of making the playoffs. So I mean, I guess that's the way things go on the internet is you've got to choose one side and really stick to it. It's not sexy to be like,

I mean, they're the third best team in the Central Division and, you know, probably I will see what's going to happen. But I mean, I want to personally apologize to Miko Ranjanon and his family. I held him. His family, his friends, his loved ones, anyone in his life. I left him off my top 20, list at the start of the year and I heard about it from avalanche fans and he has obviously had an insane season where he has 51 points in his first 30 games or 52 points in his first 30 games

um which would be like a decent overall season and he still has 50 plus games left to play and he's going to cash in this year as part of that loaded rFA class and he's the real deal I mean he's alleviated any questions or concerns or reservations people might have had about how much of he was a byproduct of playing with mckinandisg um You know, that's certainly a great spot for him to be in, but the individual skill itself is also a driving force for that line. And I don't know, where would you put that line in terms of the pantheon and the league of, like, the most dominant forward units?

Like, it's got to be right up there with healthy Bergera and Marshaen-Pasternak. There's very few. Like, that might be it. I don't know. Like, when the stars load up Radgillov with Sagan and Ben? I'm not giving up on the Bruins line being the best in hockey. Like, if I'm choosing one today, gun to my head, I'm still picking that Beruins line. but I mean, but the abs have given us no reason to not consider their top line.

And then let me think, I mean, depending on which first line you want to pick in Toronto, you could make a case for that. Ben and Sagan and Radjulov, I mean, there's a couple of Jets lines, but I wouldn't say, you know, one is stealing my heart. Yeah, I guess Shifley Wheeler Eilers can be good, but for whatever reason, like, you know, wheelers, five on five numbers have been dropping off a little bit. He's still obviously a tremendously effective player, but doesn't have that sort of dominance that he might have had for a few years.

So, yeah, I think it's right up there. I mean, like, offensively, I think that Colorado Avalanche first line might be the most lethal, like if you needed to get into a shootout with someone and you need to generate a goal in terms of just like a seven-game series where you just wanted to just throttle the other team and just suffocate them. That Boston line, as we've seen, is probably the best because it's never going to give you the puck. So that's probably a pretty useful thing to have in your back pocket. I'll admit too. I was late to rantanin. I monitored him a little bit last year, but I really have gone out of my way to watch them this year. And obviously the numbers speak for themselves. But my eyes have been really open. So I don't know if you want to do a joint statement to the family or something, but that might be an order.

Well, okay. So I think it was after the Duchesne trade last year, they, the Avalanche Trade Bender put together those three guys. Right, right. So since then at 5-15, they're outscoring teams seven. 27 of 41, which is a plus 36. And obviously they've played together so much, so the volume is more than pretty much anyone else you'll find out there. But I believe like the next best was like plus 20 or something, and it was that Radula of Ben's second line. So, I mean, yeah, they've just been completely dominant. And they're putting up like video game numbers at this point.

And I keep waiting for them to slow down a little bit just because the concept of someone having 130 points in an NHL regular season in 2018, 19 seems just impossible. but as the weeks go by and that pace keeps going, it's like at this point for him to not get 100 points, he'd probably really have to either have an injury or just a massive, massive slump, which seems like it's not in the card. So I'm very curious to see what that next contract's going to look like for a lot of these RFAs who are putting together ridiculous numbers because, I don't know, we can talk about this with the Eastern Conference stuff as well,

but I'm very curious for your take on sort of how that Willie Neelander situation is going to impact some of these future cases and whether it's going to, lead to a bit more of player empowerment in the NHL because for the longest time, the NHL's been this league where it's like team first, guys can't have personality, guys can't look after themselves, they can't be selfish. And we saw Willie Neelander justifiably hold out for his money for what he was worth and he got it. And I'm always for players getting whatever they're worth because your shelf life for earning is very limited in the NHL. And so I'm always going to be on the player's side in that regard and I'm just curious to see whether we're going to see more of that and whether it's going

to completely influence the landscape. I would think it would. And another thing that I think flew under the radar a bit in the summer was Drew Dowdy being his own agent. Like, even though in hindsight, it was probably a bad idea because he didn't get maybe the deal that he could have got with an agent. But even that, like, he empowered himself to sit across the table from Rob Blake and negotiate something. Like, I mean, that takes, first of all, it takes some big balls. And also, like, he's just saying, like I can do whatever I want because I'm a player in this league and I'm a star and I can you know I can kind of weave my way through this situation I don't need anyone's help and I thought that was that was something that wasn't talked about enough that in relation to players you know

I guess leaning more towards what's going on the NBA where based you know when you think of social media in their reach or just you know their influence on the league you know negotiations and and just you know the shift of power like LeBron basically chooses whatever he wants to do he coaches himself like i don't know if we'll ever see the nchel to that state but like i think it's drifting slowly uh towards the NBA in terms of uh players taking a stand and going like listen we are the product and you're going to pay us appropriately because you are actually richer people than us we're millionaires you're billionaires and i know that the cap system obviously kind of throws a wrench and everything because all of a sudden the owners have have sort of uh like a door to go

out of and say, oh, you know, plead that they have no other option. But I think, I think Neelander doing that was, was a bit of a, I don't know if I want to say like watershed moment. That sounds really dramatic. But I think it's a bit of a turning point. For sure. I mean, we always look for like kind of historical precedence or, you know, something to point to you that's happened in the past as a guiding point for it. And now if you're one of these guys, you can point to that and go, like, well, this is what happened with Neelander. So I can feel a bit more secure and knowing that it might not work out the same way, but at least like I'm not on an island here just by myself.

Okay, one final thing before we finish this up and move over to your podcast. The Kings and the Blackhawks are the two worst teams in the league. It's, what was it, five years ago, they had that epic seven game series that was decided in over time. 2013, yeah, yeah. So five, six years ago, you know, combined,

I think the Blackhawks won the Cup the next year, but since that year, so over the past four playoffs, four full seasons, they have like two combined playoff wins. They both obviously are united by the fact that they also have a ton of money devoted to a handful of guys who are either 30 or approaching 30 or already on the wrong side of that. Where do you go if you're those teams? Because it's very easy as a fan to just say, blow it up, trade those guys. There's a lot of considerations to keep in mind, especially for a team like Chicago,

who people don't remember now what was going on in Chicago with the Blackhawks before Kane and Taves came around where their games weren't even being televised locally and nobody cared about that team and the crowds were pathetic and if they weren't in such a big market they probably would have been a relocation candidate. So I can see sort of the desire to not move away from this era of guys at the same time they're so bad this year and they have so much money tied up in these guys that it's unrealistic to expect that they're going to be better even next year or the year after that. So like just how do you manage that

where you have this aging core and all this money tied up in guys, but you can't just play it like a video game or like a fantasy GM where you just trade away the guys for draft picks and suck for a handful of yours because that is not how it works sometimes. What I'll say is that I consider the LA Kings

in a far worse situation than the Chicago Blackhawks just based on the players that they have aside from Kopitar and Dowdy, Um, my opinion is to everyone else is available. Well, maybe Jeff Carter. You keep Jeff Carter around. Um, but other than that, and I, the issue with, with making everyone available is who wants some of these players, right?

Dustin Brown. I don't know with that contract. Um, Jonathan Quick. I don't know. Uh, with his age and injury history. Like, I just, I just see Chicago as, as a team that has a few more bright spots and a few more what ifs that might turn into something special. So, you know, Dylan Strom, I like that trade for him because it's more of a home run hit or home run swing than, say, Nick Schmaltz, who they knew who he was, right?

So now they have Brendan Pireledy and potentially a second line center in Dylan Strom. We'll see what happens there. But I just feel like there's more, there's more potential in Chicago with what they have right now that they don't necessarily have to bring out the dynamite and blow the thing up. But in L.A., given the on-ice product for the last two years with the slow pace and, you know, you know, a change in strategy doing nothing to really, um, up the, up the performance. Yeah. I think it's, they have no choice but to, to really like, uh, cut down to the bone. Like, I don't know if that includes Jake Muson and those type of guys who are very valuable, but, um, I think the LA King should go that route, that route. And I think that the Chicago Blackhawks

should be more band-aid, um, based, if that makes sense. Because also their contracts with Taves and and Kane and Keith and Seabrook like there are no moves and that that's going to be really difficult and Crawford and I just both of both situations are perplexing and like I don't envy Stan Bowman

or Rob Blake right now to be honest but I tend to think that that the Kings are a little more desperate I guess to turn this thing around than Chicago yeah no that's true at the same time Chicago has somehow been worse than this year which uh considering the Arthur Kings got off to, I thought was not possible, but Chicago's run ever since they fired

Quenville has been, I mean, they beat Pittsburgh last night, but other than that, I think they have like four wins in their past 22 or 23 games or something along those lines. So it's a pretty dreadful run they're on. And I guess you're right, like Chicago has a few more younger pieces who could conceivably take that next step with Strom with Debrinkat. You know, they've got some pieces they could trade. I think both these teams are really hoping that there's two compliance buyouts coming down the pike in the next CBA because that's pretty much the only way that I think Chicago is going to be able to shed Brent Cbrook's near a $6 million cap hit for the end of time. So I think that's what they're banking on. And other than that, I mean, it just looks like we're

headed towards at least another couple more years of these teams not making the playoffs. Well, and I think the takeaway from both of these situations is NHL teams shouldn't just be happy with like, you know, you win a couple cups and that's like, let's just ride this out and see what happens. Like, I think you always have to evolve and clearly LA did not evolve. I think that's settled. But if we look at Chicago too, like maybe they should have went further in the direction of speed and skill and trying to just go completely, you know, towards the modern game. And I don't, I don't know if they, you know, went the other way necessarily, but like all of a sudden you can, you can become very irrelevant, like as we're seeing with these two teams. And I feel like L.A.,

we really saw it coming. With Chicago, we kind of saw coming, but not to the six. Not this quickly. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they necessarily got passed by in terms of their philosophy. I think they just got enamored with their core, and they really bought into that whole loyalty component. And one thing I really, really dislike is whenever I tweet out about the Blackhawks,

I always get at least a certain segment of fans, not even fans of Blackhawks, fans of other teams, whether it's the Leafs or the Knicks or whoever, who come back and go, oh, well, I would love the situation if you gave me the cups they want. And it's like, those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Like you can be successful in, cups and not ruin the next five to ten years of your franchise by signing these contracts.

Like I get the whole loyalty component and you want to reward guys and there's a certain emotional attachment to it. But when you're talking about the types of contracts that a Brent Seabrook has, I just don't see where that gets you. Like you can thank him for his service. You can honor him after he retires by inducting his jersey or whatever you want to do. But you don't need to sacrifice your future and those two things aren't necessarily tied. So I just wanted to point that out because I always get those fans who kind of link those two things together, and I just don't think it has to be that way. Twitter is not a good place for Twitter is for throwing out a good takes.

Or and a lot of things. John, we're going to move over to your podcast now. We're going to talk about the Eastern Conference. Plug some stuff. Where can people find that? Where can people find the rest of your work? So the podcast is Puck Pursuit. I guess iTunes, SoundCloud, Google Play, all those places.

Yeah, that, that line. my work my Twitter is m a t i s ed john mattis john and i'm in the score app working on a few stories right now always looking for for new ideas and whatnot and kind of finding a balance between long long form features and columns and podcasts so yeah puck pursuit would probably be the the easiest way to find me cool well i definitely recommend going over listening to that and you can start with my appearance on that podcast. So, John, I appreciate you taking the time and we will continue this conversation minutes from now. Before we get out of here, I wanted to remind everyone that there's a couple ways that can help show love to the show and help support it. First and foremost is I'd really

appreciate if you take the time to go over to iTunes and leave a rating and review for the HockeyPedio guest. Hopefully it's a five stars and hopefully you can add some sort of anecdote that you've enjoyed in the show or some particular component of it that strikes your fancy and let iTunes know all about it because I've been told that that sort of stuff helps keep us atop the ratings and helps boost our stock with iTunes. So hopefully you'll do that. I only takes a minute or two and it'd be greatly appreciated. The other thing is, is that the Hockey PDO cast is now also available on Spotify. So whether if you're not listening to it on iTunes and maybe you're not a big Google Play fan or using Stitcher or wherever

else you get your podcast, Spotify is now available. So, So if you're sick of the recent playlist you've been listening to, you can hop over and listen to the PEDYOCAS for a bit and then jump back into the music. With that said, that's it for today's show. We are going to have a couple more here while I'm in Toronto. Hopefully the audio quality is okay. We're using these handheld mics that I use when I'm doing in-person shows.

And yeah, thanks for listening. Thanks for subscribing. Thanks for rating and reviewing. And we'll be back soon. The Hockey Pediocast, Dimitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovic and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.