The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 279: Deadline Day Winners and Losers

Episode Date: February 26, 2019

Justin Cuthbert joins the show to help sort through the winners and losers of the trade deadline, and discuss the big news of the show's move to Yahoo. Topics include: 1:15 The new look PDOcast 3:40 The rise of the conditional draft pick 8:45 The Golden Knights landing Mark Stone 13:00 The Predators getting some secondary scoring 19:50 The perfect fit of Kevin Hayes on the Jets 23:30 The Lightning enjoying the perks of pole position 27:30 The Sharks getting another scoring forward 35:00 Power ranking the Western Conference elite 41:20 The Blue Jackets going for it this season 49:45 The Rangers stockpiling draft picks 54:00 The Senators fire sale 57:30 The Islanders sitting tight.. for now 1:01:00 Why Erik Gudbranson? 1:06:00 Did the Bruins do enough? Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Spotify, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated, especially the ones of the 5-star variety. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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and joining me sitting across from me in the fine Yahoo Studios down here in downtown in Toronto. It's my good buddy Justin Cuthbert. Bit of a mess right now in here. It is a bit of a mess. There's a lot of moving parts. This is what post-deadline looks like. It was an intense day. I mean, obviously, this wasn't my first deadline on the job, but this one was particularly

hectic, which is weird because it started off so slow, but we were like, I mean, you and I recorded a video analyzing the cliff poo for future considerations straight. and then all of a sudden you get like 10 actual meaningful ones. Yeah, it basically, we needed to waste a little bit of time because I don't think that did make it to air for, you know, things. But that's what happens with these. Okay, let's, we're bearing the lead here. Let's, I mean, people that follow me on Twitter know that I've joined Yahoo and the PDO cast

is now going to be on Yahoo as well. And I feel like we should give people a little bit of a sort of a map of what our plans are, I guess, for the coverage of the rest of the season, right? It's certainly going to be working pretty intimately. Yeah, I mean, we're obviously tremendously excited to have you on, but I think the important thing is the PDO cast doesn't change, right? This is your baby and we were interested in what you put together here, which is, in my opinion, the best hockey podcast going. So we're so happy to have you on. You're already on the show.

I know. I know. I don't have to do that. But I'm, you know, right across from I got to, you know, heat praise on to you a little bit. Yeah, but we're tremendously excited. Obviously, you know, plans are still being worked out with what we're going to do. but hopefully we'll do some fun video stuff. We do some fun video stuff today.

We'll do some fun video stuff throughout the playoffs and obviously build on the empire, the podcast empire. Well, yeah, I think that's an important thing to stress because I know people are sometimes scared off by change and I know the natural question is like, how is this going to affect the PEOCast? And I just wanted to put that to rest because it's going to be the same show

that if you've been listening for the past, however many months slash years, expect more of the same. If anything, hopefully we'll be able to improve the audio quality and get to do you, shows more frequently. And I know like you and I, for example, hopefully in the first round of the playoffs, especially when there's games, four or five games every night, we'll be able to do them more frequently and turn them out at a faster rate so people can listen to them before the next

games. Yeah, and there'll be plenty of things to talk about. Obviously, I mean, we were talking earlier. We've been clamoring for some news. We've got some news today. We'll have some news in the playoffs. So plenty of talk to talk about down the line. Plenty of talk to talk about today after what was, as you mentioned, a pretty busy deadline at the end. Yeah. So you and I have been a, we've been sitting and talking talking hockey all day basically. For those that haven't checked it out, please go on all the social platforms and go on Yahoo and check out some of the videos we did.

We launched the Shirelli scale, creating some of the trades based on, you know, I think okay trades to haul for Larson. Yes. I mean, the scale was sort of, you know,

it went from questionable to haul from Larson. So that is a bit of a, I know, that's skewing towards bad. And there wasn't too many bad, no, deals today. No.

There was a couple that did, you know, make a ripple. on that meter, but for the most part, I think general managers handled themselves pretty well today. But, you know, we can still poke fun and Peter Shirelli. We'll do it. Well, I did feel like, especially this past week, it felt like every deal, I don't know if this is necessarily a new thing or reasoncy bias or if it has been going on before, but it felt like every deal had these like conditional picks attached. And I don't remember this in the past being this big of a thing. Like,

it felt like a lot of these were teams sort of protecting themselves from the idea of giving up a lot for a rental by putting these clauses in saying, yeah, we'll give you a better pick if this guy signs. And in most of these cases, like in the Mad Zucarrello one, for example, where it goes from a third to a first if you re-signs with them, like, I think that's a pretty clear indicator that the team's probably not keeping him in their long-term plans. So you got to factor that in as well. And it makes sense from both sides. But it felt like that was kind of one of the most common themes. And it led to a lot of sensible trades because there weren't too many high picks being dished out without that kind of fail-safe option in there.

See, I don't mind those gambles. Yeah. When you look at, I guess, what the senators have been doing, they got one attached to Eric Carlson. I mean, San Jose is going to make, do everything in their power to try and re-sign Eric Carlson, I believe. And then they got one attached to Duchenne, where it improves to a, hey, first-round pick

if the blue jackets do retain Duchen. And with Pinaran and Brobrovsky potentially leaving, I think you'd probably put Duchen, or you'd probably put Columbus at the top of the list of suitors for Ducan. because they can pay them the most money and they're going to be a little bit desperate. So I think it's a, it's definitely an interesting development. I think it's a good gamble in some respects. In the case of Zuccarello, maybe it's not, maybe it doesn't mean that much.

I mean, if it does move through a first rounder, it would, but maybe that deters the Dallas stars from retaining Zuccarello, but with these important players involved in them, I mean, there is obviously interest beyond this season. And I think in the case of the senators, it's a pretty good gamble on some of them. Yeah, I agree. We'll talk more about the senators here in a bit because they're obviously one of the teams are going to be highlighting. I thought it would be kind of fun exercise. And obviously, this is still very raw and very fresh.

I mean, we're literally recording this an hour or so after the deadline passed. And most of these deals still haven't really sunk in and formalized yet. But we're going to sort of do a preliminary winners and losers. And I think it's going to be a good exercise because I think it's a bit of a cop-out when people say, like, you can't evaluate this stuff until after the fact. Because it's like, that's not how trades really work. Like when you're a GM making a trade, you can. only really evaluated based on the information the guy had at the time. Obviously, you know, Matt Zuccarello, for example, has a great example for this.

Yeah. Gets injured in his first game with the senators. That shouldn't affect our evaluation of the initial trade because it's not like Jim Nell could have possibly known that. No, he couldn't. And listen, there's going to be few winners if you actually do evaluate trades long after they're done because few teams actually attain the success that they're aiming to. So if you do limit yourself that way, then, you know, it's going to be a very small list of teams you can actually appreciate with what they've done. think that is a bit of a dirty little secret.

I know TSN during their broadcast today aired the graphic of like the last handful or whatever, seven or eight Stanley Cup champions and what they did at the deadline. And I think one great example is obviously the Jeff Carter trade for the Kings the year. They first won the cup where they bring him in and all of a sudden they ascend and become this dominant possession team that just runs away with the title. But for the most part, a lot of these are like tinkering on the margins. You see a lot of like adding a third parent defenseman or a fourth line center or something like that there's I think the history of teams making a splash trade at the deadline and then that guy

becoming a hero and winning that team of Stanley Cup is probably pretty like I feel like the it's a pretty limited sample size of that ever happening not that it should deter teams from trying to make their teams better at the deadline but it's like you got to kind of keep that as a little contextual sort of thing to consider it is small you did mention the kings they had sort of they have a little bit of that success with Marion gabrick too scored a bunch of goals in that run after I guess the Carter edition. But you look back at last year, Michael Kempney's earned some cult hero status

for being one of the guys that sort of put them over the top. But generally, it is those smaller deals that have the big impacts. And often you see, you know, the player added, he's, they're able to, the team's able to retain that player. And, you know, it's a good deal because of that. But in terms of pure rentals,

pure rentals that help teams win the Stanley Cup, sometimes they're few and far between. Yeah. Okay, well, let's get into it. Let's, I think we should start out West. Yeah. Because it did feel like in terms of all the shaking and moving that happened today, the biggest ramifications are out West for the playoff picture because we saw a handful of the teams,

especially out in the Central with that arms race materializing between Winnipeg and Nashville. Both of them went out and made some pretty big splashes, uh, throw Vegas into that mix. So it felt like the West and even San Jose with their Nyquist acquisition yesterday. Yeah. It feels like all the best teams in the West sort of push their chips in. made their move. Whereas in the east, obviously Tampa Bay kind of just stiff back because it's like what do you get someone who already has everything? And then a team like the Leafs made their move before. So let's focus on the West. Now in the fallout, what sort of sticks out to you the most in terms

of maybe the biggest winner or sort of the team that made the best strides? I mean, it's hard not to look at what Vegas did with the acquisition of Mark Stone. I mean, I had Vegas as a team that I really didn't want to do anything. I thought, you know, what they're looking had a pretty uphill battle with Calgary and San Jose in the division, maybe the toughest path to the Stanley Cup final of any team, unless you maybe want to count St. Louis or Colorado or whatever team slips into that number three. But they're going to have to go through two teams with legit Stanley Cup aspirations, and then another in the third round. And then obviously if they didn't make it. Probably that team too. Yeah. I mean, that's a really difficult path. And if they were going to add

pure rentals, I mean, I think that could have been a little bit misguided and misplaced, given that they still have to build out a foundation of, you know, good players to build up their system to achieve long-term success. But there was a condition, obviously. I mean, if you're going to go out and make a Mark Stone trade and you're going to give away a prospect like Eric Brantstrom. Oh, Eric Branson. You're going to give him away. It's on the tongue. He's one of the few remaining premium prospects from all the good work that they did at the expansion draft. But the condition is if you can sign Mark Stone, you go out and make that trade. And they're going to be a good work that. And signed Mark Stone for $9.5 million annually, a reasonable deal, probably less than he could have made on the

open market. So I think they improve their team obviously today with Mark Stone and that top six, that top nine looks a lot better than it did with a player of his caliber. It's going to be no easy task. It doesn't at all push them over the top. I mean, you can't say with certainty that this is a difference. But getting him for the next eight years, a blossoming superstar, a player that's going to be really, really good for a long time. I mean, you can't not put Vegas at the top of the list. Yeah, I know we keep coming back to this, but I think it is a point that you honestly can stress enough. It's like, what I want to see always is a team that can take a step back and critically evaluate where they are in the league's hierarchy and then act accordingly. I know everyone

would love to be a contender and try to win a Stanley Cup, but realistically, if you're like the 11th best team in the league, doesn't make a lot of sense for you to be giving up first round picks and future assets to get marginally better? Probably not. With this Vegas team, I think it's a super uphill battle. And if it was just a pure rental, I would have knocked them for this trade. Even if it was not even Brandenstom, let's say it was a lower tier prospect. They gave up, I'd still question it if they didn't re-signed Stone, just because it's like, what are the odds that you're going to beat probably San Jose in round one,

Calgary in round two, and then Winnipeg or Nashville in round three? Like those are arguably one, two, and three in the Western Conference. And so running that gauntlet seems like a very uphill battle. But for Vegas now, I mean, they had Mark Stone, who I believe, according to evolving Wild's goals above replacement metric is the number one skater in the league this year in terms of the values given his team. And I'm very fascinated to see what he's going to look like. I'm not sure who he's going to play with on the Golden Knights,

but I imagine it'll probably be an upgrade over, what was it, like Colin White and Brady Cichuk for a lot of the season. Like I imagine he's going to get some nice little shiny toys to play with offensively and on that power play. And he's taking his game to a whole new level offensively this year. We all know about the defensive ability. and I think that's going to carry over to Vegas, and he's in the prime of his career.

So that eight-year investment makes a ton of sense, especially at the number they got him for, which was single digits. Yeah, he's the prize of the deadline. I think there's an undeniable influence, strong possession, shot share numbers, everything for a bad senator's team, now scoring over a point per game.

I mean, Mark Stone is pretty close to a superstar player in this league, if not a superstar player in this league. And he adds to a group that, you know, I think some of the shine has, you know, rubbed off a little bit, especially with some of the players that sort of came out of nowhere, and you kind of expected that a little bit. But now they've got a really, really rock solid core. Yeah, it's a good team. I mean, I deep dive them on the most recent episode of the PDO guess. I don't want to regurgitate a lot of it. But, I mean, the results haven't been where they were last year,

and some of the luck kind of came back from that inaugural season. But, yeah, based on all the 5-15 metrics and everything, they're a very, very good team. And now adding a guy like Stone, obviously, takes them to another level. The other teams in the West, I mean Nashville, we were waiting for them, and I was so ready to call them the big loser because they really waited to do anything until the final couple minutes there, and it felt like it was an inevitability that they were going to do something. I think we were all curious to see what that was going to be and what price they were going

to be willing to pay because they've been relying on that top line of Forsberg-Arvinson and Johansson way too much and they needed some secondary scoring, and they went out and they got it in the form of Michael Grandland and Wayne Simmons. Yeah, I respect what they did. I think there was a lot of read and react with Nashville at the deadline here, seeing Kevin Hayes go to Winnipeg. I'm not sure what they would have done if that didn't happen. I'm not sure what they would have done if maybe Winnipeg got Mark Stone,

who they were connected to for a while. It probably wouldn't have measured up quite as much because obviously we just touched on how valuable Stone is. But it is interesting what they did, obviously another one-for-one trade involving Paul Fenton. we think Nashville got the better end of that. Mikkel Grenland, I feel like that's a player as well that hasn't quite, you know, reached up to maybe the potential everyone had for him.

Maybe he showed flashes in a season where you'd think, okay, he's going to take the next step and maybe it was a slight step back. But it's been pretty level. Right. It's pretty, pretty level. It's been a quality, quality middle six forward who helps you both offensively and defensively. We're talking before we think Kevin Fiala can get to that point.

And he's still a young guy. He's a guy that's always talked about this time of year because Nashville's been so good. And that's been one of their, you know, premium prospects or young players that could be moved in a one-for-one deal if they really wanted to make a big splash. And he's been involved at points. Certainly in the playoffs, he's had moments in the regular season, obviously he's had moments. But I don't think he's fulfilled his potential. I don't know if they're through waiting around for them.

I think that might be a little bit hyperbolic, I guess. but they went out and they got a player who gives them an immediate upgrade, someone who can sort of match what Winnipeg did in a middle six upgrade, and then they went out and got Wayne Simmons, who's obviously going to help the 31st rank power play in the league right now. So I think read and react, they did a pretty good job. Yeah, I love Fiala. I mean, I've talked about him plenty on this podcast,

and in my writing, I mean, the talent is when you watch Nashville, especially on a perfect night, like his skating is so remarkable, and that's still at only 22 years old. and acknowledging the fact that you probably lost some developmental time there when he had that nasty leg break in the playoffs a couple years ago. I think he could still get there, but for this national team that's clearly all in now and has this core and who knows how long they're going to be able to keep these defensemen together,

it makes sense for them to get a more, you know, not safe, but an option that you know what you're going to get from Michael Granul at this point of his career, and that is that sort of second line guy who can bounce around from the wing center and very gifted on the power play, a great playmaker. And so that solidifies it. It is a bit disappointing to be giving up on a guy like on Fiala because obviously, I think his ceiling is so high that this could be one of those trades that comes back to buy you in the butt a little bit.

And we knocked Paul Fenton for this trade. And I think the reason why I have an issue with it is because I feel like they should have gotten more value just based on the two names, like the fact that he did this one for one, similar to the coil for Donato trade, it's like, couldn't you have squeezed out an extra pick or something else in really? turn. Like it feels like just based on name brand value, they could have gotten better value. But I think the bets they're making, I mean, they clearly evaluated their team. And they're like, okay, we're going to make the playoffs and lose in round one again for the 12th straight season. Where is that going to get us

ultimately? So let's kind of take a step back, try to get some younger guys with higher offensive upside and maybe potentially we can actually become a legitimate contender as opposed to this middling team that constantly sneaks in. Yeah, I think their intentions might have been right on, but was that the right deal. I mean, they're a little handcuffed in the fact I think they probably wanted to move Eric Stahl, but weren't able to. I don't think he wanted to leave. But we talk about timeline. McKell Granlin meets Nashville's timeline better, obviously, than Kevin Fiala. He's in his prime right now. He's ready to contribute. Fiala, ready to contribute as well, but not quite in the same established manner as Grandland. And then Simmons, I mean, we mentioned who's going to help on the powerplay.

he doesn't fit the timeline perfectly. I have some reservation over weather. Wayne Simmons from like 2015. Yeah, I mean, then you'd be really talking, but I'm not, I mean, I was going to be skeptical wherever Wayne Simmons landed. I'm not sure. I mean, I think this is a plotting version of Wayne Simmons, and I'm not sure how much they could, how much he was going to help a team.

But you're looking at a team with a struggling power play. I mean, this is, this is the right team to go out and get Wayne Simmons. That's not going to rely on him to be a guy who's going to be. you know, not in a specialty role, a guy that's going to be, you know, driving play and involved and maybe lagging behind. You have, he's a specialty player. He's going to have a specialty role and he's going to try to heal or remedy something that's been a big problem in Nashville.

Yeah. And obviously, I mean, it's probably a win-win in that regard for team end player, right? Because Wayne Simmons is an impending UFA this summer. And with the injuries he's had and sort of everyone being cautious after, you know, the cautionary tale of a guy like Milan Luchich where he ages so poorly like this and having a similar you know physicality and body type I think teams are going to be very reluctant to give wayne Simmons that five six year deal that he might have gotten a previous era but at the same time obviously if he sort of turns back the clock a bit and has a productive uh postseason run and also rejuvenates

his power play all of a sudden you could potentially see him making some extra money as well so it makes a lot of sense there's the sell if they start scoring goals on the power play he's whether he's directly or indirectly involved, he can build himself a little bit more of a case. I'm very fascinated to see it because obviously like their neck front presence is Victor Arvinson, right? So it's like, and he's actually kind of good at it. Double the size. He has. He's like remarkable like jumping screens and and all this stuff. So I'm fascinated to see that dynamic there. But especially for the price, right? Like I know they gave up a first

for Ryan Hartman last year, but you can't evaluate it like that. Like it's a sunk cost. As soon as you make a trade like that, you can't view that as a former first round pick anymore. You have to view it as Brian Hartman and what he gives you right now. And I don't think that's a player that's going to move the needle either way. So giving up Ryan Hartman in a conditional fourth, as opposed to some of the rumors you'd heard where the Flyers were looking for a first round pick and a prospect early in the day. Like I think at that point, at that point came down so low that for the predators, they're like, all right, let's take a shot. And honestly, if Wayne Simmons is banged up and can't skate, then we can just demote him to a fourth line,

second power play specialist type. And that's perfectly fine. Yeah, don't double down on a mistake. Ryan Hartman, I guess, was a mistake. He hasn't had the impact or the influence that you expected him to have doesn't mean you have to continue to roll them out there go get something you need and i like a grandland has another year i believe left on his deal at like five something or maybe around six million and so clearly Nashville is going to have another kick of the can what's the saying kick of the can kick of the can yeah so they're going to have two runs crack at it crack at it i don't know um so yeah i like what national did there and winnipeg is the third team and i've talked so much about this match made in heaven between kevin hayes and that's

second line center spot that they needed to fill to fill that Paul Stasney role from last year. And we'll see. I know Lainey's been playing a bit on the top line and they've been trying to get him going and he's finally scoring some goals. But I think long term, Winnipeg's sealing, if they're going to match what they did last year and potentially even make the cup final and win it, it's going to involve Patrick Line being an absolute monster who's scoring a goal a game, right? And they needed to find a way to get him going. And Brian Little clearly is not that guy. I think Kevin Hayes, there's a lot of questions certainly. But he's, he's so talented and he's so physically gifted as a playmaker that I think I'm very curious to see

how that fit plays out and it very well could have the similar success to what Winnipeg found last year between line A and Stasne. Yeah, Stasney almost seemed like a luxury last year. It seemed like, oh wow, okay, now they've added this. This is a little extra to what was already something that was working. But it turns out they did need that influence, I think. They needed a, well, they needed someone beyond Brian Little, I think. Yeah, I mean, they need someone who was going to be able to get the best out of Patrick Line.

I saw a little bit out of Paul Stasney. But Kevin Hayes, when I was thinking about, I was thinking about he's Mark Stone light. But maybe that's not really fair. Maybe that's just the body type and what he can do a little bit offensively compared to what Mark Stone can do offensively. But I think it's a little bit different than that. Obviously, different positions. He's going to do the centerman. But I think it's going to be a good fit.

I like the move right away. and it did cause the chain reaction with the other teams getting ready or sort of being more involved in the arms race but things have gotten a little stale in Winnipeg for whatever reason. Obviously the Stasney thing did influence that but I think they needed a shot in the arm

they needed a solution for what was going on in the middle there and I think Kevin Hayes is a good bet, a good gamble for them. Yeah, I mean they lost Stasney and Endstrom obviously this summer and then I think it's unfair to evaluate them because Niklai Helers was missing so much time. He just came back and scored a goal in his first came back. And Dustin Buflin's still out, but we expect him to come back at some point. So, like, their numbers since the new year have been abysmal.

But whenever you subtract two key contributors like that, like, it makes sense that that's going to account for part of it. And I think part of it is also, like, after the success that team had last year and coming into the season, I don't think things are stale in terms of, like, they can't get it back together or they're bored or they're not trying. But it's like, this is a team that pretty clearly has bigger picture aspirational. than trying to have a successful regular season because they've already done that and now they're looking to take that next step. Yeah, I think we see parallels with Washington. I mean, every time I turn on Washington, I think they look like world beaters, but their record and their underlines and their, you know, their production totals don't really match that. That's why what's going on in Tampa is so remarkable. I mean, Tampa Bay didn't do anything today. They didn't have to do anything today. But for a team that hasn't had that success, sort of in the same boat of Winnipeg, but they've been doing it for longer. They've been at that.

close to the summit, but not there for longer. And they're going for one of the best seasons in the history of the NHL. So it's remarkable that they've not fallen into that sort of malaise that maybe Washington had before Winnipeg maybe is now. Maybe that's oversimplifying things for Winnipeg and they really do have some problems. No, that's fair. Yeah. But I believe they're still a really talented team that's going to push for a championship this year.

but it does make me appreciate what Tampa is doing that much more. Yeah, I think when healthy, the talent's clearly there, they need a bit more from Kana Hellebuck than he's done so far this year. But yeah, I would still bet on that winning out. Yeah, with Tampa, I don't know, is it fair? Is it kind of cliche to say that they're like the big winner today just because they didn't have to do anything? Like, you know, they're in the driver's seat here.

They're in pole position. All these other teams, even the teams out West, I imagine are sort of trying to measure themselves up against the high benchmark that Tampa said. And they're like, okay, what can we do? to potentially match what they have going on offensively. And whereas Tampa's like, yeah, we're perfectly cool here. We're going to chill.

We've already done a lot of our work. And I think it's really important for them. I think we sometimes miss this point when we talk about the sort of trade deadline buyer versus seller markets where for a team like Tampa Bay, who clearly this summer is probably going to have to lose some players financially similar to what Chicago did in their heyday, just because once they put pay-brain point, I can imagine a guy like Tyler Johnson's probably just going to be shed off because they won't be able to open. Portum. Having guys like Matthew Joseph, Anthony Sorrelli, I imagine some of these other guys

who are playing on their HL team right now, having them come up on these ELCs and play for nothing and be effective is such a massive luxury for a team that's paying Nikita Kutrov, Steven Stamco's, Victor Hedman, and Braden Poe and all that money. So retaining all those young assets that aren't making any money on their ELCs was a huge step for them for the future as opposed to, you know, just trying to do everything they can this year. And that's why you don't want to see teams go crazy because I mean that's a proven model I mean there's one thing to draft well but there's other to to know and to understand when your time is now I'm not sure they've ever really I mean they've made big moves around deadlines before I mean traded for McDonnell last year with like potentially two

firsts right yeah but they've made the right they've made the right calls and they can trade their first when they're drafting well in the seconds and thirds but you mentioned them being the big winner that's because the teams that really did something are sort of their indirect competition in the Western Conference. I mean, they're going to have to go through one of Toronto or Boston probably and a Montreal or another wildcard team in the east. And Toronto and Boston, while Boston did make some moves, I don't think they did anything that's going to scare the Tampa Bay Lightning

in the sense that they didn't get anyone that's going to really move the needle, at least in my opinion. I mean, Boston added Charlie Coyle and Marcus Johansson today. Marcus Johansson earlier today. And now, you know, I mean, they're fine middle six players. But are the guys that are going to truly strike fear into the heart of Tampa? No. I don't think John Cooper is sitting at home right now.

Just reevaluating like, oh, crap, what are we going to do to keep up with the scene? But I mean, to be fair, you know, they're both useful players. And I think for Boston, like the baseline level of what they need from the guys that aren't playing on their first line is like, just don't get killed to buy Bergerjohn, and Marshaun and Pasernak a couple minutes of rest so that they can come back out on the ice and do their thing. Now we saw last year in a series against Tampa Bay who is this loaded team with four lines they can roll like it's really tough to keep up in a playoff series when you're just relying on a couple guys like that because there's what they're playing 20, 25 minutes a night what are you going to do for the rest of that time?

It's a remarkable luxury when lines two through four just have to break even because that top line is going to get theirs pretty much regardless of who they're playing and then the other side of the coin it could be the Maple Leafs who didn't do anything today and obviously a lot of talk and Toronto, always a lot of talk in Toronto. But I think they made the right move staying Pat. I mean, we talk about when to strike. They're having to deal with both Boston and Tampa this year, if they're lucky, or they'll be pretty pleased to get past Boston to meet Tampa if they do indeed do that. But they just made one small move at the margins with Nick Patan. Obviously, their big move move with Jake Muzin, but there's still some questions about whether or not they have the most complete team, whether or not they have a team that's going to be able to compete for the Stanley Cup. But just circling back to Tampa, I mean, they saw all the action at West,

and they're probably feeling pretty comfortable on track for one of the greatest seasons that we've seen. Well, let's tie a ball on the Western Conference. A team we haven't talked about yet is the San Jose Sharks. You know, they made their move, I guess, the summer trading for Eric Carlson, but then obviously yesterday they also get Gustav Nyquist. And I think people were generally surprised that the price they paid for Knights, which I believe was like a second and a conditional third or something like that was all they had to give up because I think people were expecting Detroit to recoup a first rounder or at least some top prospect and you know it came out that Nyquist who had a no trade clause wanted to go to San Jose and I imagine that kind of limited Detroit's bargaining power when it's like I'm not going to wave unless you send me to this particular team so I'm okay with it from Detroit's perspective getting a couple picks for a guy who was probably not in their long term plans but from San Jose's perspective I know we go through this with the Leafs where it's like at some point there's a point of diminishing returns where it's like if you're investing all these assets in

offensive players what about the other side of the game but at the same time ultimately you just need to score more goals than your opponent and you can do so by limiting goals or by just scoring in crazy ridiculous volume and with a san Jose team when you're talking about joel thornton and gustav nicholas potentially as their third line guys and second unit power play guys like it's it's pretty scary what they can roll out there on a consistent basis to go along with burns and carlson what i like about san Jose is they have different types scores. I mean, they don't have, they're not just a small team that's flashy. They're not just a team that relies on their power play. They got a lot of different elements to them. And that obviously is built out from having Brent Burns and Eric Carlson on the blue line. But Nyquist is low key,

one of the, one of the really good ads, I think. And obviously, it played into their hand that Nyquist wanted to go there. But I think we've seen some flashes of that star potentially showed in 2013, 14, 15. No surprise that it's coming in an unrestricted free agency. And But he's going to add a little scoring punch on the cheap. They were able to get it done early and not have to scramble today and overpay today. So it's another nice move from the Sharks management team. And I like them at the start of the year. They were my pick for the Stanley Cup.

I think maybe the path is a little bit trickier than what I envisioned coming into. Yeah, especially in Vegas in round one potentially. That's a pretty tricky first round match. And it shows how important the next 20 to 25 games are with trying to secure that number one seat. because you want to avoid that, obviously, if you can. But they do have a more difficult path than I envisioned. But I think that's the most complete team, at least in the Pacific Division. And maybe you can argue in the entire Western Conference.

But there's some problems in goal. Both are goleys, I believe, are sub-900 or sub-900 last time I checked. It's a massive problem that you just cannot overcome if it continues. Yeah, I was kind of surprised to see. I know a name that I floated out there and I'd seen some other people talk about it was potentially Ryan Miller. You could stay in California. He's an impending UFA, so you give up like a, you know, a second or a third round pick or whatever.

And then he could just try to win a cup, which has eluded him throughout his career and then signed back with Anheim if he so chooses in the summer and it works out for both parties. I'm not sure if they explored that or not. I know they're like, it's a fine balance because you don't want to, if you're San Jose, you don't want to go out and get a Bobrovsky or maybe even a Jimmy Howard just because you're so financially invested in Martin Jones. And I know like if you win a cup this year, it doesn't matter what happens after that. But then like if you're just completely stripping him with a job and just bringing in a new star and then all of a sudden you have to turn back to him for the next five years at whatever he's making. Like I understand the reluctance to potentially do that. And he also has also, I mean, he has the playoff resume.

Obviously, I don't know how much we want to buy into that. But I think in his whatever many games he's played, he's like a 925 or 926, say, percentage goalie in the playoffs and has kind of elevated his game when he's needed to. Yeah, there was no sure thing with what they could do. I mean, there's no sure thing that Ryan Miller would, would, you know, help them that much. would he be the guy that could push for the starter's job? Maybe would he be able to succeed in that if he could, you know, take over from Martin Jones if he continues to struggle. But you mentioned Jimmy Howard.

I mean, that's one of the guys out there because he's a UFA. But it's a replacement level goaltender. You know, there's been some spectacular runs. But overall, he's giving average results. Average results might be enough for San Jose. Yeah. But I think they got to believe that average results can be found from what they. But they can get it from Martin Jones.

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. The team that's ominously quiet in this mix is Calgary. And I think they're firmly in this top tier in the Western Conference with all these teams we've talked about so far. I mean, their big move was going on and getting Oscar Fannberg for like an additional fourth or something. I was very surprised. It's a bit of a double whammy for them because, you know, obviously in the Pacific Division, not only does one of their natural rivals get Mark Stone, but they were one of the teams that was heavily roomed.

to potentially be in on those Markstone sweepstakes. And I'm not sure, you know, they're clearly a team that maybe Mark Stone wouldn't have wanted to resign there. Maybe they don't have a prospect of Eric Brandstrom's caliber and they would have had to give up some volume of picks and prospects that made Bradshaw living uncomfortable. Like there's all these factors to consider. But considering how good this team is, how its window is now, how they haven't had that much playoff success in the past.

Like I'm a bit left, a bit lukewarm with the way they chose to approach this deadline and I kind of wish they brought in one more impact player whether it was a guy of Mark Stone's caliber or even someone lower like a Mike Hoffman or a Gustav Nyquist or someone like that could come in and give a little scoring punch on that third line. Yeah, I wrote down five teams that I thought had to add something. They're one of two that didn't add of the five Calgary and Carolina. I think Carolina maybe could have done a little bit something today just to sort of improve their chances of what could be a playoff position here shaping up because they've been on quite a run. But it's interesting with Stone because there was talk earlier about how Calgary was close on something huge.

So did that all hinge on Mark Stone not wanting to sign there, not wanting to resign, or not getting the money, or if he was willing but not getting the amount of money that he wanted? Right. Because they said it was close and it didn't happen in the end. But then the fact that Mark Stone was willing to, you know, decide his future today makes you seem like maybe they did have the move in place and that would have been quite the power move and obviously very exciting for the for flames fans but maybe the hangup was right there uh but you're right calgary's a really good team yeah i mean i really like watching them a really really solid top six one of the best first

lines in hockey one of the best second lines in hockey and a really strong defense score led by a guy who's probably going to win the norris trophy and marg girodoño but again it's the goal tending yeah i mean I mean, that's not a problem exclusive to them in the Pacific Division because, I mean, Mark Andre Fleury is not having a tremendous season or not having a tremendous last couple months and we just discussed the issues in goal for San Jose. Are they going to be able to put it together with Mike Smith and David Ridditch? I'm not convinced. But, you know what?

It's looking like a roll of dice either way in those two series. However, it shakes down the Pacific Division. I would have liked to do something to sort of, to at least. least match what the other teams did. But I think regardless of whether or not they were going to get a really big name player or impactful forward, they still had some worries about, or some worries in that. Yeah. And they're a team that's kind of historically, especially under this regime, been for whatever reason, kind of reluctant to pay big exorbitant prices for rentals. Like a lot of their moves have been on the margins and in the summertime, right? So all of that makes sense. I mean,

I do wish they had another guy, but it's easier to say that without knowing the context. of what that would have cost or, you know, how that made them feel. I'm going to put you on the spot here. I want you to power rank those teams for me. As we stand right now on February 25th, just after the deadline, give me your top, the top tier in the Western Conference, because I think we agree that like these five teams or whatever we mentioned are clearly better than whoever else is going to make it in the play.

I guess we got maybe add St. Louis at a mix. I mean, they didn't really do anything today, but whether they added Michael those auto, I think that was a big move for a six. Like, it's kind of a bizarre trade. But they've been playing so well that I think we need to factor them into this. But let's talk about these five teams right now that made the moves and now how they look in their new look formation

adding calories to that mix. How would you rank them? Interesting, because I probably would have said with certainty that Vegas would have been my five and Nashville probably would have been my four before today. And obviously those teams, those two teams probably made the most impactful moves of the five.

I still like San Jose I probably would slot them number one I'd probably go Winnipeg number two it might be Nashville, Vegas, Calgary now for me Yeah I think it may be maybe a toss-up between the final two But I am still waiting for Winnipeg to look like Winnipeg

I hope Kevin Hayes does sort of remedy all that But I've been really high on San Jose Since the start of the year And obviously they did nothing But improved their team with the addition of Gus Nyquist, not as impactful as the other ones, but I would probably start there with the Western Conference. Yeah, I think I would go very similar to you.

I think San Jose has to be number one just based on what we've seen. It's close. I'm not saying they're an illegal their own, like Tampa Bay is out east. But I think just based on the talent, like it's, I would not want to bet against them in a series in this Western Conference playoff just because, like, it would be such a frightening proposition to be, like, financially invested or having your reputation on the line. And then you're like, all of a sudden, this team is just rolling. Gustav Nyquist and Joe Thornton on the third line.

You're just like, oh my God, they just put up six goals in the blank of an eye without even trying. So it's ridiculous what they can do. And if the gualtending can hold up, I think they're number one. I actually, I think Nashville is number two for me. Like I think it's a bit of a coin flip there once again between them and Winnipeg. But I really like the moves they made.

I think just adding, and I'm not even expecting much from Wayne Simmons from them, but adding a guy like Michael Granland and giving them another guy who can do some of the playmaking and take some of the offensive responsibility off of the shoulders of that top. line is going to be such a massive luxury for them. And I think with the goaltending, like, they're the one team here that, like, it feels weird

because I was so down on Pecoranay for so long. And then now he's been so reliable the past couple years, game seven last year, notwithstanding, that I just like them the most in a playoff series, I think, out of those other teams. And then it's a toss-up, honestly, I think, like Winnipeg, Calgary, what Vegas are right there. And I think that's going to lend itself to an amazing couple rounds, right? There's a common theme throughout all of them. Maybe questions and goal. I mean, there's others that are a little bit.

That's pretty much like everywhere in the league, right? Like there's like five teams that have a goalie that I'm not like, oh-oh. But high event with questions and goal, five really good teams that are about to go at it. I mean, we have problems, obviously. A lot of people do with the way the playoff is formatted, but we're guaranteed some really good rounds between those five teams. Well, when we saw, I mean, last year, I thought that, you know, low-key, the Vegas, San Jose series, in round two was some of the best hockey I've seen in recent memory. Just the pace those games were played at was so fun to watch.

And I know it wasn't necessarily as close of a series. I know there was a couple blowouts in there, and it didn't go to Game 7, so people don't think of it as this classic being played at the highest level. But it was some great hockey. And then now the teams have both added some serious firepower. I mean, just think about it compared to last year, Vegas ads, Max, Patoretti, Paul Stasney, and Mark Stone.

And then all of a sudden you've got Carlson and Nighterner. Quist and a healthy sharks team. Like it's, some of those games could be like seven, six. And to think that'll probably be, I mean, that'll be the jewel of the first round, right? That's, if Calgary does end up winning the division, that'll be an amazing first round series followed up by a really good second round series. I mean, it's sort of interesting because, I mean, it is annoying having these really good teams play each other in the second round, but I think the hockey's better at that time.

Yeah. So if, if, you guys are healthier. You see, you see teams at their peak going at it. It does make for really great hockey, as you said. It's not the right way to do things. But, I mean, excuse me, with the way those teams are ranked right now, I mean, we're going to get some really, really good hockey. Well, I guess, you know, I aired my grievances and my issues with the current playoff format.

But in a sense, like in the West, it will technically work out at least to the start, right? Because, like, the team that wins the Pacific will be guaranteed. And in the Central as well, like winning the West, it will be. two divisions, you're going to get a significantly easier first round matchup than you will if you are in those two, three seeds. And so all I want is I want, like, if we're going to demand playing 82 regular season and having this marathon season, which is clearly a cash grab by the league, at least make it worth something and give those teams that do really well in the regular season some sort of advantage. And we're going to see that out west because it's pretty clear that

Calgary and San Jose are going to be, they really should be trying to finish first in the Pacific. because I think the difference between whoever they're playing the wild card and Vegas is going to be a massive disparity. The carrot is there for sure. It's interesting because, as you mentioned, it's going to actually work out probably the way it should. I mean, the two, three Cs in the Pacific will probably be the four or five seeds if it did go by a one through eight. So having that four to five premium matchup, they obviously face the one seed, which might be the team that wins that division. So it won't be too far off what we would like to see it. Yeah. I think that's it for the West, right? Like, are there any, I think we kind of, I think that's probably the most a podcast has ever spent on the Western Conference before getting out east. I mean, look at us go. I don't know how long we've been talking, but it feels like we've really been prioritizing that. And I think we should move out. We should. We should have prioritized, though. I mean, that's where all the action was. That's where, I mean, all the power is concentrated in those five teams. And they were, for the most part, all involved. So out east, let's talk about the blue jackets. Okay. So I'm going to have Allison Louie. can on later this week and we're going to really deep dive what Columbus did and sort of their

future outlook. So I don't want to like get too into the minutia here, but clearly they're they've gotten a lot of the headlines in these past couple of days because they went out and they basically traded every single draft pick they possibly could have to bring it the zingle, Duchesne, Keith Kincaid for some reason, uh, Adam McQuaid. Like I'm not saying these are all great moves. I'm just saying like it's clear the agenda here is we're going to win our first playoff series in franchise history. You're saying that Yarmalkelein basically doesn't have to be at the draft engine. Yeah, I guess that was his rationale. I'm perfectly cool with the first two trades he made. And then at that point, it just felt like he had these draft picks burning a hole in his pocket. And he's like,

I don't know, like, what am I going to do with this fourth rounder? We were talking earlier about, like, clear intentions. There's no clearer intention than what's going on. If we're going to value that, we need to give them credit for that at least. It's, yeah. And it's, it's fascinating. I mean, I don't think we've ever seen a cupboard empty that fast, but I see why they did it. Especially for a team that's, what are they, like a 50-50 bet to make the playoffs? As it stands now, I guess. Like, mathematically in terms of the probability, like, they're not a, like, this isn't a Stanley Cup contender that's already, like, locked in. Like, if Tampa Bay did this, you'd be like, okay, well, they're the best team in hockey.

It makes sense that they don't care what happens next year. With this team, like, conceivably, they could be a lottery team. They're on the bubble, but this is. is the strongest iteration of the Columbus Blue Jackets that we've seen. I mean, this is a team that they could slot, I wouldn't say anywhere, but they can slot a lot of different places in the Metropolitan Division or the wild card standings when it's all said and done. I think they're going to comfortably make the playoffs, even though they're battling it out right now. But this is a significant investment. And I think it's a worthy investment because, as I mentioned, this is

probably the best team they had. They've never had success in the postseason, haven't won a single round. But it's all precipitated or the fact that they have Artemi Panarin and Sergey Brobowski who have made it known that they probably want to leave. They're two incredibly talented players that another team is going to build around. But you don't want to waste that. You don't want to waste the best team that you've had in your franchise's history. And while they've invested maybe more than anyone else would have thought, I think they were wise to do this because you got a reward.

you got to reward this team. You got to reward the team that's got you that is the most talented that you've ever had. And you've got to give it a chance because what are you just going to take two steps back and live in the bubble forever? I think eventually this team is going to disband a little bit. They're going to lose some premium assets here

come to summertime. But why not go for it first? Yeah, I mean, with all due respect to Jeff Sanderson and Federer Tutin and some of the other all-time Columbus Blue Jackets great, this is clearly the best team they've had and I think just as importantly the Metro Division is probably

not necessarily as weak but I'd say as wide open It's there for the taking for sure There's no team like I don't think it's necessarily weak Because even though they've shown flaws Like Washington and Pittsburgh still have the star talent And Carolina's coming on strong So I think there's good talent there and good teams But none of those teams have taken the stranglehold

And ran away with it and I don't think We're going to get more into the Islanders here But I don't think they necessarily represent this imposing roadball that no one is going to be able to get by in the postseason, regardless of how successful they've been so far. So I think it makes sense from that regard. And I've seen this idea tossed out there that's like,

oh, this is a huge bet by Yarmorke-Kalainen because if it backfires, they're going to be left with nothing. I don't think that's true. Like, even if all these guys leave in free agency, you have Zach Wrenzki and Seth Jones, who are two bona fide first pairing defensemen who are probably not even in their prime yet, and they're going to both be under contract long term. You've got Pierre-Luc Dubois,

who's a number one center and he's like 20 or 21 years old or whatever. And then you have all this complimentary talent with the Cam Atkinsons, the Oliver Bjork strands, the Boone Jenner's in the world, and CapSpace. So they can go out in theory and add another player in free agency who will want to sign there and come back with a pretty decent team. Obviously not having the draft picks isn't ideal. But I don't think this is a team that's going to just lose Matthew Shane and Artemey Panarin and just crater and be one of the worst teams in the league either.

I think there's too much young talent they're already in place. Yeah, there is. I mean, they're led obviously by those two studs on the back end. Yeah. And Pierre-Luc Dubois coming into his own

as a pretty dominant center in this league. But there is a lot of talent scattered throughout the roster. Obviously, they would put it in a position where they had to take a step back because they were going to lose these two superstar players at the end. So you got to this point,

are you going to just accept that, you know, you accept your bad luck that these two guys wanted to leave? and two guys that you, you know, made shrewd moves to acquire? Right. Or are you going to go, you go for it. And I think you don't need a full slate of draft picks every year to create a good team, to build a good team.

You've got to make the right moves with what you have. And their hockey operations is going to be attested a little bit by the fact that they don't have first round picks, second round picks coming up. But they got to continue what they've been doing. and that's accumulating good talent and good enough talent to put themselves into a position where they think they can win or get pretty far in the Stanley Cup playoffs

in the Metropolitan Division, which right now is shaping up to be a bunch of coin flips, a bunch of teams that are pretty similar in capability and let the chips fall as they may. And I'm not saying GMs should be just catering to the whims of their fan base and be making their moves dictated based on that. But I mean, I think the Blue Jackets have a very loyal fan base

that is very vocal online. I'll give them credit for that whenever I've slandered them on this podcast out there. I'm quick to hear about it and I read some of the Reddit threads about the bad stuff I said about them. But they have a loyal fan base that has been treated to 17 years of,

I don't even want to call it mediocrity because there's been some really, really dark periods in there and they've had five playoff victories, zero playoff series wins in that time. And so this idea that you might not be a Stanley Cup contender, but you could get into the playoffs and all of a sudden win around and all of us, who knows,

maybe an injury happens, maybe you get a lucky break, and all of a sudden, you find yourself easily in that conference final, and at that point, maybe Tampa Bay is going to be treated to a tough series out in the Atlantic, and who knows, right? So these are all the things that you kind of, I understand it's a lot of ifs and butts, but I think as a calculated risk, it makes a lot of sense, and I give Yarmal credit because these are moves, as you mentioned, that we don't typically see teams make because NHL teams err on the side of a more conservative action around this time of here. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of moves, obviously. I don't know if all of them were, the correct moves. I mean, I think the Matt Dushan deal is

pretty solid. You know what you're going to get. This guy's going to score some goals. He might not be the guy that you rely on, you know, too, too heavily in the playoffs in all situations. It'll be interesting to see where Ryan Zingle fits in if he's going to play, if he's going to be locked into that third line role. How often is you going to get that shot off? We can sort of debate the merits of having Adam McQuade on your roster, but we probably don't want to go down that path. So it's interesting to see what these players do and how they do impact this stretch run. But I think that core is what means the most. They're going to, you know, they're going to add to that core and help that core. But that core is talented enough to

compete, I think as it is, need a little help, needed maybe validation, maybe needed to not have to worry anymore about not having Artemmy Panerran and Sergey Barovsky on the roster come summer. So it is interesting to see what's going to have. happen and they're definitely a team to watch down the stretch, not just because of their position in the standings. And, you know, I mean, I can tell from their perspective, like, when you look at all the success, the Ottawa centers have had this year and you, if you're Columbus, you're like, I want to replicate that success. Let's get some of those guys in our team. No, I think, I think obviously with that first line they have, I'm at, like, there's not going to be that much pressure on Matthew

Shane from that perspective where he's not going to have to be the number one guy and he can slot into a bit more of that complimentary role where he's maybe carrying a second line, for example and I think that's probably better suited for him in this point of his career so I like that move and I'm very fascinated to see how it plays out I mean the opposite of that obviously and we saw these two teams make a deal is the Newark Rangers and I just want to talk about them quickly because I mean they made it clear last year that they were in this rebuilding phase and they traded away a bunch of their guys recouped a bunch of draft assets we saw it again this year they have a pick in every round and they have 10 draft picks overall I believe with potentially up to three

three first rounders based on how the playoffs play out. And I think Rangers fans, based on what I've gathered online, are getting a bit restless, maybe, or a bit uneasy, because I brought up how I love that from a rebuilding perspective. And then all of a sudden, I got all these angry Rangers fans that are like, well, you have to have a GM who's going to make use of those picks, and maybe they're getting a bit uneasy with the direction of the team. But I think, you know, I think you and I both agree that the draft is pretty much a crapshoot. And some teams are probably better at drafting and developing than not.

others, but in theory you want to have volume and this Rangers team with their 10 picks, I imagine will be able to do some interesting stuff, whether it's packaging them to trade up or or what have you this summer. Yeah, I think they did a pretty good job. We were talking earlier about the bleakest outlooks this time of year. And, you know, the ones that come to mind first are the Oilers and the Senators. But at least with the Oilers, if they do get to that next stage of the rebuild, they have the best player in the world to build around. With the senators, yeah, things are pretty bad. They got a couple good players that they're going to build around in Brady Cichuk and Thomas Chabot, but at least they had the assets this time of year to bring back some really

high quality prospects and picks, which they did. But I think the Rangers did a good job with what they had. I mean, they had two assets in Zuccarello and Hayes that were going to bring back probably just draft picks, and they got those picks. And now it's up to them to do something with the slate of picks that they're going to bring into the draft in June. So you're not going to get so much back for Kevin Hayes and Matt Zuccarello. And you're going to have to find the players you don't have. I mean, you can't be a dominant team at the end of a rebuild with Mika Zabinajad as your best player. Love Mika Zabinajad, but he's not a world beater out there. So it's on them to find the talent in the draft and the rebuild starts in earnest right now. But that's what I like about them, that

they tie into this model of this podcast and what we've been talking about. It's like they are aware they're not fooling themselves they and this might change the summer of one of the time he penerrin becomes available and he's expressed his interest in potentially playing in new york and I imagine it'll be very uh enticing or tantalizing for them to just throw a bunch of money at parnarin and try and speed this thing up um we can get into the merits of that at the time but like they understand right now that they're not a very good team and they're not like just trying to keep these guys on the margins they're pretty much a free for all they didn't move chris crider this year obviously but he's still young enough and has more term left on his deal where he

wasn't a necessity to move him. So they're squeezing out value, right? Like they got these two picks back for Adam McQuaid that they said for some reason traded for him in the first place and I forget that they even did that. But like now they have these 10 picks and they had 10 picks last year, I believe. And they have the market and they're going to have the cap space coming up. And I mean, it could go bad very easily, but and all this praise could wind up sounding silly. But all of the pieces are there for them to potentially do something impressive and special,

whether it's now or whether it's a couple years down the line. The only problem right now is that they're winning. a little bit too much. I mean, they're, they're a little bit, we talked early about teams that are sort of handcuffed. They're a little bit handcuffed in the fact that they have pretty good goal tending right now and they're winning maybe more games than, uh, some fans at least the ones that are, are pulling for a rebuild and,

and to go scorched earth, if, uh, if you want to use that phrase again. Um, because right now they're sort of a middling team. Yeah. And you want to see, you want to see them pullups, acquire some talent that is game-changing. And it's always available to them to have game-changing talent. We see Jules chosen in the draft all the time. But to pick from that top end in the lottery,

I feel like that's somewhere they have to be because their top-end talent doesn't match up with other teams in the league. I agree. And we saw that last year, obviously, with their top-end pick, they got Vitali Kratsov and I love him as a talent and we'll see him come overseas pretty soon. So, yeah, they need more of those guys for sure. I don't know

The senators Don't get into them We've kind of like alluded to what they did I feel like you have to a little bit Obviously I mean they trade it Argued like the three of the most important players It's I mean

It's tough because I actually With all the trades I think they did well Right like they got assets back They got some premium assets back Just the elephant in the room is I mean they don't have their first round this year, which is obviously a big issue if it winds up being either Capocaco or Jack Hughes.

And I don't think anyone has faith in them maximizing all these assets they got back because there's just this hanging cloud of Eugene Melanick. And even if they get some of these young players like Eric Brandstrom, eventually they're going to have to pay him. And are they going to be willing to do so? And are they going to make the most out of these draft picks and sort of how are they going to operate? And I think it's fair to be skeptical while also acknowledging that they actually did pretty well with a lot of these trades. Yeah, we can only evaluate what they did, I guess, today in the last few weeks, because their headspace was a lot different when they traded their first round pick,

I guess 14, 15, 16 months ago for Matt Duchayne. But you're right, they did all they could, I think, in the last few weeks. They traded the three unrestricted free agents that were probably going to leave, and they got pretty decent value on either, on each of them. But it is a dark day. I mean, you lost Mark Stone, who they wanted him to be their next captain and one of the better players that's gone through there in some time. But they got a really good prospect, a premium prospect in Eric Bransstrom back to go along with the first two seconds and a couple of other picks and prospects. So it's on them to make best use of that.

But if you believe in Eric Brannstrom and you look two, three, four years ahead, a blue line that's led by Thomas Shabbat and Eric Bransstrom. sounds pretty good. Yeah. And we talked about Columbus building out from Werenski and Seth Jones. Right. Maybe we got the same thing, at least the makings right there. Yeah. No, it's, I mean, it's clear that the young talent is there.

It's, I mean, there's all these other issues. But, you know, speaking of, like, one of my favorite subplots of today, and we were talking about this at the time, but Winnipeg protecting their pick that they gave in the Kevin Hayes trade to top three and sort of learning from the mistakes is some teams that came before them. And I know they did it last year with Paul Stasney as well, but, I mean, for a team, that's 99.9% likely to make the playoffs still protect like doing their due diligence like I actually

respect it from Kevin Shelday off because you never know like we've seen time and time again like they're going to make the playoffs but even if there's until they're like mathematically locked in there you can never take anything for granted in this league we should have done the math on that their current playoff projection plus the yeah it would be 0.2.3% of them winning one of the draft lottery selections I guess it would be a little bit more than point two or But that would have been interesting to figure out the exact odds of them actually getting one of those three. As long as it's not zero, you have to protect yourself against it. But that's good business. You got to do it. I mean, it should be, you should be putting those obstacles up on premium assets and premium opportunities like that.

And then deciding if you're going to clear them or not. So keep that as a rule. You're going to lottery protect those top three picks or it probably should be the entire lottery. You should protect those picks. And then you decide when you're negotiating. negotiating with other teams, whether or not you want to tear those down to acquire whatever asset that you're interested. One of the teams was eerily quiet, and this is a very Lou Amarillo thing, it was the New York Islanders. And they were getting a lot of buzz earlier in the week, I felt like, before Matt Duchesne got traded, because there was a lot of rumors about how they'd be in on him and they'd want to resign him right away. Potentially before that happened, maybe even get a Panarin before Columbus really went all in. They were linked to a lot of these big names and they ultimately stood Pat. And I guess we have to get them credit because they fall in line with that idea of a team that the spite their record in the standings, isn't going to go all in this season because they probably

acknowledge that a lot of it has been good fortune and just relying on their goal tending to an unsustainable degree. And it wouldn't make sense to give up a bunch of firsts and top prospects to get a guy who's not going to legitimately help you win a cup. And there's very few of those guys out there. So I'm not sure how much a Wayne Simmons or Ryan Doesingle or Marcus Johansson would have done for this team. But I would have liked to see them get a guy who can play with Matt Barzal because it's unconscionable. that Tom Kunako and Leo Komarovar is two linemates right now. Yeah, I mean, completely, you know,

ruining one of the most exciting players in the league with the luggage on each side. I mean, clearly. And Conradic David is like, oh, my God, that guy's in trouble. I'm actually shocked, though, that the Islanders didn't do anything. I mean, seeing Lou Lamarillo operate in Toronto the last two years previous to this run, I think he said both times,

I want to reward this team for what they've done to this point and give them the chance to compete. And obviously, any expectation that he had for that roster has been, has been overachieve, they've overachieved anything that he could have possibly expected with Barry Trots coming aboard and the amazing goaltending they got. So with players out there, with a lot of teams looking to sell, I'm surprised that they didn't do something to just add a scoring punch or just from an optic standpoint just to reward the players that have gotten to the,

to this point, I'm a little bit surprised, but it was the right call to stand pat because this is a team that is first in the Metropolitan Division for reasons that don't really go beyond hot goaltending, a specific structure that seems to be working and mediocrity from the other teams in the division. Yeah, no, I agree. And obviously, I mean, they're going to have the caps a space this summer and they still are in that market where a Panarin potentially still comes back in play and they can sign him without giving up a first than Oliver Walshrom or Noah Dobbson or whatever prospect they would

have had to throw in that trade. So it makes sense from that. I think, I mean, at the same time, what we said about Columbus technically could be applied to this Islander's team from the perspective like this Metro division is so wide open. They're one of those teams that's in that mix. And I don't think anyone is running away with it. So maybe if they added a score or two, all of a sudden, we'd like them a little bit more. But you're right. I think based on the prices, I think it didn't really make sense. Maybe a guy like Mike Hoffman would have made sense just because he has years left on his deal beyond this year. But I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to make those deals with guys that have, you know, 50 to 60 point potential that have term left on their deal. I mean, it's hard to make those deals with the snap at the fingers. I think the difference, I guess, between them and Columbus is they don't have Matt Barzel and Robin Lennar ready to leave at the end of the season. That's true. Yeah. So they're building towards something. I think they have better, they believe or they should believe that they have better days ahead. of them in terms of roster construction and the ability to actually compete.

Right now it seems like a free roll at the table, and I would just let it ride. Well, so the East is very fascinating because, I mean, I guess we have this race out west, but it's so pathetic at the bottom of the wild card. They're like, I don't even want to spend time talking about it because it seems like it's not going to have an impact on the playoffs. Out East, I mean, this question came up today from a follower on Twitter, but it was like, which of these teams is going to miss the playoffs? because it feels like a really good team

or a team that has notable big names is going to be on the outside looking in just because the islanders are taking up one of these spots that we didn't expect in the preseason. And right now it's the Penguins. And with the Latang and Dumlin injuries that they suffered in the outdoor game against Philly, we'll see how long they're going to be out for.

But man, I wanted to talk about this Eric Good Branson injury because my goodness. I mean, we were waiting to get to it, right? Jesus. It's the first thing that popped into my head It was the Spider-Man meme with him and Jack Johnson pointing at each other And another thing is like

You just have you acquired Jamie Alexioc, You traded Jamie Alexiic And now you feel like you've brought the same type of player back I mean Like a significantly worse one somehow They seem to Yeah a significantly worse one for sure But they seem to just have that need

They yeah they do for sure Internally they believe that's what they need I mean this is a team that won a Stanley Cup largely because they had obviously such talent up front. But they did it by flipping pucks out of the zone and having those players chase them. So, you know, it's worked before without a whole lot of talent. But this is a different lack of talent.

This is a guy who might be costing you more often than not and unable to get to the pucks that are flipped out of the zone. He's actively bad. And the bigger issue is this is a team that's clearly doesn't have a ton of financial flexibility because they do have so many stars making so much money. And I don't think that's a problem. But it is when you have like nearly $8 million, I believe, in future cap tied up to Jack Johnson and Eric Branson.

It really limits your ability to do stuff. Future cap is the killer. It is. It is. And these guys have term on their deal. And they're just actively bad. Like it's not even, I know it's beating a dead horse, but it's like when you see a team that is generally considered to be pretty smart and has had success in the past.

and I think people appreciate Jim Rutherford not wanting to stand pat and constantly trying to improve his team. Like, I don't think Tanner Pearson is some sort of a game breaker that they're going to, you know, miss out on. But it's like, I just, I want to know what kind of conversation will happen in that room where they're like, Eric Branson is a guy that we should go out and target and we're going to call Jim Benning and just how I want to, I want to, I'd love to be a fly on the wall for how that entire ordeal escalated because something must have gone horribly wrong. What's interesting because I've only thought about it really from the Pittsburgh standpoint, but I mean, fans in Vancouver must be over the moon right now. I mean, you tell me. Oh, they're loving it, but it's so hilarious because you have this like weird contradiction where I think a lot of the fan base, a lot of the smarter more educated fan base kind of sees through

the BS and is like Jim Benny needs to go. Like this is going way too slowly. We're not getting better. And then there's this fan base that still believes in him and wants to wait it out and believes that he's this master drafter and they need to give him more time for some of these guys to develop. And I think Elias Pedersen, especially, but also Brock Besser are big hits for him in the draft and they're going to buy him more of a leash with the ownership group. But like one of his big moves when he came in was trading future assets to get Eric and Branson and then now he's being lauded for undoing that mistake. And it's like, how can you praise?

It's so bizarre to me. And the same thing is sort of happening in Pittsburgh. I mean, Tanner Pearson may be considered a mistake, and he makes another mistake by trying to erase mistake. And I guess that's going to happen when you're throwing a lot at the dartboard, and that's what Jim Rutherford is doing. And I mean, it's exciting. It's interesting. I like that Jim Rutherford is an active GM who's not complacent. But when you start making a string of mistakes, especially when you're on the bubble right now, and all these things matter so much, you're fortunate that you have a guy like Sidney Crosby and one of the things.

the best forward cores in the league because it's going to be on them to overcome deficiencies elsewhere for them to survive Montreal, Carolina, Columbus, and actually make the playoffs this year. Yeah, I honestly believe that Montreal and Carolina are better teams at this point, but they don't have Sydney Crosby, and I'd be very terrified to count out Pittsburgh just based on that alone, but just purely in terms of how they've been playing in the depth. I mean, it's going to be tough, it's going to be fascinating one of these teams is definitely going to miss out and we're going to be scratching our heads and wondering what went wrong um you know boston is is a fascinating team because they're in that race they're they're they're kind of similar to Vegas they are kind of locked in

into their spot and they know that they're going to be playing likely the leaps in round one again and and so they're measuring themselves up to that but they're also measuring themselves up to what happened last year and in the past which is even if they get by round one like they can't just rely on that one line and spend everything they have in the tank and then they enter that round two series a shell of themselves and all their guys are banged up and so they clearly needed more depth and I don't know like I'm I'm felt leaving I'm left feeling a little bit like meh on their acquisitions because it feels like they left a little bit on the table yeah I think they did uh as well I mean the Charlie coil getting ahead of it it's it's good to get ahead of it but I think

maybe uh that was misguided move I mean he took up a lot of the cap space that they were able to play with it's interesting with those two teams, or three teams rather, because I think Boston likes how they match up against Toronto. I think Toronto might like how they match up against Tampa, but Tampa likes how they match up against both. Tampa should like how they match up against everyone. And I think that's a big difference, but Boston does have to worry first and foremost about Toronto.

I'm not sure Marcus Johansson and Charlie Coyle make much of a difference there. I mean, we talked earlier about just breaking even, might be enough. But I'm left wanted more a little bit. I think even with that first. trade is people were thinking that you know giving up on Ryan Donato too quickly for a guy who is sort of close to the replacement level in that he's going to offer you know mid-level points have some scoring punch do a little bit defensively a little bit of

versatility but not a guy that's going to really do anything of huge significance and with marcus yohansson he hasn't been relevant in this league really and since he signed that deal with Washington and was traded to New Jersey. I mean, he's dealt with a lot of injury issues. One of them sustained by Brad Marchand decapitating. There you go, the flying elbow, right? But yeah, I mean, it's been a bit of a difficult for him. He hasn't had that impact limited a lot with New Jersey, but not particularly effective when he's been in the lineup there. So, I mean, Boston seems like a soft, you know, landing spot for a lot of players. A lot of players go there and do find some success because there is those sort of franchise pillars and the guys that are just continuing to

keep that train rolling pretty well. But I think they could have been a little bit flashier. Yeah, I guess it's unfair because, you know, they're not going to part with Jake DeBroskin. I don't blame them and maybe they don't have the talent to replicate this. But like, I wish they would have gone out and got him Michael Granlan instead. Like, I think he would be the perfect player as like a second line wing that could play off of David Krati and give them another playmaker like that. Like pretty much just regurgitate what we said about why we love Grandland as a fit in Nashville. And Boston's kind of the same.

Like they need that type of player. And I'm not sure if they had the assets to go out and get it. So they kind of did a half measure instead and gave up a prospect and a second and a fourth to get a couple of these guys and try to patch it together. But it's, I don't know. I feel like it's not enough to make me feel comfortable that they're going to be able to get by both the Leafs and the Bolt's in succession. That's why it's difficult to really criticize and look back and be really fair to the situation because we laud teams that go out and get the job done early, go get a guy that maybe could fit into the roster quicker and be ready for playoff time. But you wonder if Granlin ever did come up.

Because if Granlin came up and you prioritize coil, that's a little bit strange to me. And I think they could have easily paid similar prices. I think Jake DeBrosk, obviously, they made the right call in keeping him. Yeah, I guess they didn't have like a Kevin Fiala. type beyond Nebraska's like that young guy who provides the ceiling because I don't think Donato is that type of player. But did that ever come? Did they ever talk about that?

Because maybe they're looking back now and they didn't know that that was even an option and you missed out on a guy who we both agree probably fits in a little bit better. That's the problem when we jump to conclusions as fans and as analysts and you go like, you rail on a team for not doing a certain thing. And I remember this came up on like Saturday night when the Rangers traded away Zuccarello and they got back, you know, a second and a third, and they're both conditional, but they're probably not going to be upgraded. Although a lot of Rangers fans are like, oh, my God, like, I can't believe, like, that's all they got. It's like, well, if that's all a team is offering you, you don't really have much leverage because if you're the Rangers,

you have this impending, aging veteran who's clearly not in your future plans, like, what are you going to prove a point and draw a hard line and be like, well, if we don't get what we want and deem satisfactory, we're just going to keep them, that's not how this business works. So unless someone is offering something better and we know for certain, that they turned it down, then it's kind of tough to be super critical because we don't know what when now and behind the scenes. That's why I'm really happy that Ottawa managed to get a deal done involving Mark Stone because I wouldn't have wanted to see a point where, okay, nothing worked out. They didn't get the deal they wanted and they sold them off for pennies on the dollar.

And it really, like, it started a revolt if there hadn't started already among Ottawa Senators fans. But they did get the deal done. I mean, because you'd then be weighing, oh, we only got this, but we still have the chance to resign them. But we don't have that discussion now. I mean, they got, I think, the right value on that deal. But it's all about that specific player involved. It's what that specific player involved and what another team is willing to pay. Thankfully for the Ottawa senators, they're going to get a really good prospect out of it when I wasn't so certain that was going to happen.

Yeah. And it did, I mean, to put a bone it, it does seem like a lot of the stuff that we expected it did eventually happen. I know it took a long time to get there. But other than I guess maybe like the Jimmy Howard thing when we talked about, like it seems weird that he's still on Detroit because he's an expiring guy and he's aging.

But other than that, I mean, like even like a Michael Furland, I mean, Carolina technically can consider themselves a playoff candidate and keeping Michael Furland might be in their best interest if they weren't going to get a fascinating prospect or pick back in return. So I don't necessarily blame them for keeping him and going for it this year.

So it seems like a lot of, of the names that did need to be moved eventually did and I'm glad so it gives us a lot to talk about and this is an exciting time of the period it's a bit cathartic now like I can finally sleep and I can put away my phone and not wake up in the middle of night refreshing Twitter to see if something's going to happen and I feel like I'm going to miss out so I'm happy about that and now we've got a couple weeks here maybe six weeks or whatever until the playoffs where we're going to see how these new acquisitions fit on their teams and reevaluate the hierarchy I mean we kind of power rank that western conference and obviously there's going to be a lot to be determined here before the playoffs in

terms of seating and in terms of how those new acquisitions look. Yeah, we've got a whole new set of things to talk about. I mean, there's the NHL season does get a little bit dry in the sense that there's not much to talk about in the months that do lead up to this moment where players do, our teams do decide what exactly what they want to do. Now we have 20 games to see how all these moves do impact how these teams have sort of ranked themselves over the last four or five months and then playoff time and obviously we're going to have a whole all these other things to talk about when we see how these moves and what these teams have done to this point count how they count yeah well exciting times I'm looking forward to it man um plug some stuff what uh what are what are you

working on these days what do you what do you what do you got on the horizon and uh what are what are you doing. So yeah, I guess you got to lump yourself in on this now. I mean, you know, we're building out, trying to build out our portfolio here at Yahoo Sports. Obviously, having your podcast on is a big part of that. We're going to be doing a lot of traveling during the playoffs. Until then, we're going to be, you know, following all the, all the important things that are happening. And I do spend a lot of time at Scotia Bank Arena because we're in Toronto or I'm in Toronto here at Yahoo Sports. And we always have our eye on the maple leaves, but we'll be covering everything over the next six weeks or so. Well, I'm excited for it, man. I'm glad to be

part of the team. And I imagine we'll be doing many more of these shows in the weeks and months to come, including the postseason. So I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for coming on the show. And let's go out. Let's get a beer and let's get some rest. Yeah, it's been a long day. Petrie Philipovic. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovic and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey p-docast.