The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 280: Elvis is Entering the Building

Episode Date: February 28, 2019

Alison Lukan joins the show to discuss the Columbus Blue Jackets, and how they pushed all their chips into the center of the table at the trade deadline. We get into Artemi Panarin's next contract and how he'll age into it, Sergei Bobrovsky's down season and the market for him moving forward, and the main reasons why Jarmo Kekäläinen could ultimately make the moves that he did. Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $10 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. A reminder that we’re hosting a daily fantasy listener league contest over at FanDuel every Thursday this season. While you wait for the next opportunity to play to come around, go over to fanduel.com/PDO and tell them we’ve sent you. They’ll hook you up with a bonus $5 to play with after your first deposit, which will surely come in handy throughout the year. See you there! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich. And with the Blue Jackets being the talk of the league, through the trade deadline, this is a good time as good a time as any to take some time to properly check in on them and see where they're at and discuss some of the moves they did recently. And so I thought that the only logical person to do that with would be the team's intrepid reporter who covers the team for the athletic Columbus. It's Allison Lucan. Allison, what's going on?

Not much. How are you? Thanks so much for having me back. I'm excited about it. I mean, you and I discussed the team at length back in July, I believe. and I actually went back and listened to parts of it as I was preparing for this, just to kind of gauge what we were talking about. And, you know, I think we were definitely on point with, like, circling the big theme as these questions with the impending UFAs and sort of discussing which direction the franchise would go as they approach this monumental fork and the road moment for them.

And I guess now, after the past couple of days, we had definitively have our answer on how they would decide to go. How many things did I get wrong on that podcast? I'm sure plenty. Well, you know what? I think we were generally pretty good about it. I think the one thing, and we'll get into this a lot later, but I think maybe we didn't account for the season,

Sergey Berowski would be having right now. I think we were a bit higher on him and with every reason, considering his track record and how he played last year. But I think, I wonder if he had been having the type of season this year that he's had in the past. I wonder how different this discussion would be and how everyone would be feeling about this Blue Jackets team. But I'm kind of curious to pick your brain about how,

like what the vibe is locally and how fans of this team are feeling about this because obviously you know you're going to have jokes from from people on the outside and kind of wondering about the possibility of how this could go wrong in terms of if they don't make the playoffs or if you know everyone leaves this summer but i'm wondering sort of from the fan base itself because obviously you know this would be kind of a vote of uh confidence by yarmoh and and the team over there in columbus that they're finally going to go for it and try to make something about this season, but obviously when you've been going for nearly two decades now on very little postseason success, I imagine there's like an element with a fan base where you're just kind

of bracing yourself for the worst possible outcome. Yes, I mean, I think it leading up to the deadline was was kind of crazy because it all seemed to still kind of be going to a plan where you could see most likely Artemi Panarin moved, maybe Sergei Bobrovsky. So, you know, trade for Matt Dushane. Okay, that's great, but yes, you're going to need a flashy big talent when Panarin goes just to replace what's going on there. That makes sense. Oh, hey, now you're getting Ryan Zingle. I think as the days went by, people just were kind of incredulous, myself included. This was the path. And then I think it was just, there was a period of wow. And holy crap, I can't believe they're doing this. And if you look at the fans in particular, then, this team loses to Pittsburgh on Tuesday. And I think, you know, and, you know, God love fans. There's a reason that they're so passionate and there's a reason that's what makes the game fun.

But I think now it's going to be a do or die on every single game because this is a team last year that makes three kind of middle of the road moves and just comes out of the gates roaring after the deadline. They beat Washington at home the day of the deadline. And then they go on a win streak. they just dominate the final quarter of the season, and that's not what happened Tuesday. So now everyone's like, oh, see, the sky is falling. We should never made those trades.

And then there's, oh, no, it's going to be fine. It's just one game. So I think every game is just going to be a roller coaster first until they lock in a spot in the postseason. And then, gosh, it's just going to be white knuckles for the fan base from there out. Well, that is an interesting kind of component or a wrinkle to this that, I guess, gets swept under the rug a little bit, because it feels like when a team makes these types of moves where, you know, they're getting all these rentals and they're giving away all these future assets, it's a move that we typically think of, you know, one of the best teams in the league that already has their playoff spot solidified making to further improve their chances of making a long playoff run. But with this Columbus team, I think after that lost to Pittsburgh that you were alluding to, they're down to 76.4% chance of making the playoffs, I think according to sports club stats, just obviously in their favor still. but it's not a foregone conclusion that they're going to make the playoffs in the first place, right?

And then I think that's kind of the thing that's, that's makes this so much more intriguing because it is an even bigger gamble on your armory's part just because there is no given that they are going to make the playoffs. I mean, there's only three spots really there for the blue jackets, the hurricanes, the Canadians and the penguins. And I think none of those teams are perfect by any means, but they're all good enough to be playoff team caliber teams. So it's going to make these final 20 games for them remarkably interesting.

And I imagine that they're probably not going to achieve that first step you mentioned of locking down the playoffs, but until probably the last week of the season, if they do so. Yeah, I agree. And my colleague, Tom Reed, wrote a great piece on this after the deadline. This isn't, in our perspective, just a picture of what management thinks of their team. This is such an interesting commentary on what they think of the division, right? because they don't do this last year, and they do do it this year. And this is a signal that Washington isn't maybe, quote, unquote, Washington of previous years.

And Pittsburgh certainly hasn't looked like Pittsburgh of previous years. So there's the risk of what you're doing in-house, but you know, you're looking at the competition. And it is crazy to your point. I mean, when they acquired Matt Dushain, they were out of a playoff spot. They win a game. They go to third. Right. They win a game.

They stay in third. they lose a game, they drop out. Like you said, like every game is just, the margin is so small. So that's what's been interesting to me, too, is to look at what this tells us that the front office thinks about the competition out there. At the end of the day, I think they are going to make it in. I just think that's how it's going to shake out. They are a good group and they got better, but it's going to be interesting. And of course, God help this fan base if they get second wildcard right and face Tampa in the first round. Yes, yes, that would be definitely less than ideal.

Yeah, I mean, I've seen people kind of talking about it. And the discourse around all these moves is hilarious because there's, I think it's all about sort of relative expectations or perspective because there's people that are like, oh, well, you know, if you have a chance to go win a Stanley Cup, you have to go do it. And that obviously is the ultimate end game. And every team should ideally be trying to do that at some point. But I think for this Blue Jackets team who does never literally won a playoff series before and has five total playoff victories.

Like, I imagine just getting it over that hump and having one of those under your belt would be a great start and an accomplishment. But considering the price they paid, like, how do you think people are going to treat this situation if, let's say, they make the playoffs, they avoid being that second wildcard so they get a bit of an easier matchup in round one and they potentially even advance, but then they lose in like five or six games in round two. Do you think people are going to care about all these picks that were given away? or do you think, like, I'm just curious what the vibe is going to be like, especially locally?

Yeah, locally for sure, I think if they don't win a first round, it's going to particularly right then be a disaster. I think the second kind of phase of evaluation is going to occur all the way up to July 1st outside of the draft. Right. So let's say they don't win a playoff round. That will stink. But if Zingle, if Dushan sign with Columbus, I think that softens that blow, right? Because it doesn't feel, it mitigates the degree to which it feels like,

oh, here we go again, or worse, a step back. But I think that, in my opinion, I have said, I think that this team needs to win two rounds to, quote unquote, justify the moves that they've made. And further, again, signing at least, one, likely two of these four unrestricted free agents is going to be really important because I think that's part of this too for this group is this is about a national look. This is about national respect, which ultimately should come with winning. But this is a team that now is going to have a ton of

cap space come summertime in theory. And they're going to want players who want to play in Columbus us with this team. And so they need to have a reputation that draws a player who has the talent they want to say, I can come here and win, and I want to come here and be part of this team. So that's part of this too, in my opinion. Yeah. And I think that, I mean, it's going to be obviously, I guess, dependent a bit on how the rest of this plays out and what their season, end of their season result ultimately looks like. But I imagine, you know, it does seem like Parnar and it probably has gone at this point just because he's made his intentions clear. And that's perfectly fine. I think, you know the duchin component of this is interesting we saw a ton of this at the trade deadline where

it seemed like every one of these big trades involving rentals had some sort of a conditional pick attached where if the player resigns of the team that traded for them the pick improves dramatically and especially in this case where it's not even like it goes from like a third to a first or a second to a first it's it's the difference between having your 20-20 first round pick and not and you know du shane is definitely a heck of a player and having him will certainly make your team better than not and and especially with the way blue jackets are currently constructed this year where they have that top line, being able to slide him in as a secondary guy, I think, really suits him really well. But I'm curious to see, let's say, they have that type of a result where they make the playoffs

and they either losing round one or losing round two or what have you, how hard they do internally push to actually retain Duchenne acknowledging how big of a swing that is with that 2020 pick. Totally. I mean, it's all of these levels. Everything you said, it's the reputation. It's the recouping, the risk. You know, both sides have said there are no talks yet. And I take them at their word, particularly because it's this time of year and everyone's

focused on winning. But it's one heck of a gamble. And I think that, you know, the guys in the room have joked about kind of needling both Bob and Panarin good-naturedly, but all-season about. And I think until, well, I don't know if it's stopped, but, you know, there's been some push on Panarin here. say, come on, you know, why not stay all in good fun? But I'm sure that this is a group that's looking to put their best foot forward, not just for the team, but the city. I mean, we heard,

you know, Dushain has a six-week-old baby, and already the other wives of the Jackets players are connecting with her, helping her get the support resources that she needs. I'm sure there is a full court for us to say, isn't it great here? Don't you want to stay here? You'd love to be here. subtly, but I'm sure that best foot forward is happening. Yes, yeah, for sure. And then to Zingle, obviously, with his college hockey ties there, makes a ton of sense, especially as a bit more of a complimentary player. I imagine that, you know, he's definitely someone who's very attainable this summer.

The Panarin question of this is so interesting to me, just regardless of whether he stays in Columbus or where he goes elsewhere, because obviously I imagine that wherever he does sign, he'll probably get at least that seven-year maximum. and for quite a bit of money. Oh, yeah. You know, typically I'm very against, and history has shown that usually you should probably just stay away from these unrestricted free agents that are going to command

that type of money and that type of term because when you're talking about guys who are already entering their late 20s, you're going to be buying them for what they have already done and not necessarily what they will do moving forward. And that's not a great way to be conducting business. But in Panarin's case, and I don't know if you agree with me on this, but I think he's a bit of a unique situation just because he did come over to the NHL so late in the game and he only really has about like 300 or so NHL games under his belt at this point and before that he was playing 40 to 50 games a year in the KHL on a much lighter schedule. So I imagine combining

that with his playing style that he might be one of the aberrations to that general rule where it's like I could see him not necessarily being this level of player but still being a very reliable point producer into his 30 age 32 age 33 season yeah i i totally agree with that i mean to we didn't see a ton of him in columbus right we we saw him twice a year for sure and depending on what you were watching otherwise you maybe didn't know who he was and and i i still remember that first day of training camp where he comes out and he's just skating around the ice and those of us who were in the in the stands with the media group we all were just like chicago traded this guy i mean he he really is a special, special player, and he does seem to defy some of the things you think would be

issues, particularly for a guy with a little bit of a smaller size. I mean, he's not tiny by any means, but the way he commands the ice, the way he sees the ice, he is always fit. He takes care of himself, it would seem, the jackets were prepared to back up the money truck, so to speak, and I think any team who does, this is one of the best bets you're going to have for a player in this situation. He's going to get a ton of money, but I don't know that a lot of it's going to be undeserved. Yeah. I mean, he's so, like, so, like, slippery and elusive on the ice and all of his motions are so smooth. And I was trying to think back to whether I can ever really recall a time watching him where he got caught, for example, and someone really laid even a strong check on him.

Like, it just seems like for what he can kind of pick his spots and skate by without really inducing a lot of punishment on his body. And then I was looking at some of the numbers that, over a natural stat trick in terms of, you know, hits taken and hits thrown. And there's obviously a ton of noise in that in terms of how they're recorded in various buildings. But he's like, you know, he's in the bottom five or top five in terms of like the fewest hits taken and the fewest hits thrown. And I do find that fascinating because it kind of matches up with what you're seeing

in terms of, you know, he's not necessarily soft by any means, but it's just that he does a great job of not taking unnecessary punishment, whether it's deep against the board, or putting himself in these vulnerable situations. Yeah, he's so elusive, and it was funny, I was writing on him earlier this year, because, of course, people were up in arms because he wasn't officially on the score sheet, right? But all of his underlying numbers,

stuff like our good friend Corey Schneider tracks were just off the charts, as always. And I was looking through video, and, you know, he'll be skating with the puck, and you can catch his eyes, never moving from the goaltender, and then he makes this incredible pass completely in a different,

direction. He just, he sees things, a split, you know, it's that old phrase, he sees things before they happen. And I think to your point, that allows him to be where people don't expect him to be and thus stay out of the things, the events that end up getting measured as hits. Yeah. No, you're right. I mean, his anticipation is off the charts. And he's really fun to watch. I can't imagine, you know, getting to watch him live and up close on a daily basis. You probably see stuff every single night that he does where you're like, well, I haven't seen a guy do that. a long time or ever. So he's a joy to watch. And I'm, he's definitely exactly, I mean, this is kind of kept an obvious, but it's like this blue Jackets team has so many, especially

forwards that I really liked, even before they got him, even when they had Brandon saw it in terms of guys who were good five-on-five players who had good underlying numbers, who generated a ton of shots. And I've long loved guys like, you know, Boone Jenner and Josh Anderson. You go on down the line, but they didn't really have that guy who could kind of put it all together and make others significantly better and really carry the burden of kind of the other team's opposing defenses keying in on you and still being able to create for others. And just what he's done, I mean, last year he became the first Blue Jackets player to ever top 80 points, which sounds remarkable, but is actually true. And then in this year, he's on pace for 91, assuming he doesn't miss any

games the rest of the way. And I know scoring's up around the league, but it's like, man, Guys like that are very hard to come by and the fact that they were able to get him via trade for what they did. And the fact that they're taking this risk now is, I guess, you know, a testament to a situation. But also it's, I can see why people, why people are very scared off by the idea of losing a guy like him for nothing. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's every fan base has experiences like this. And same old insert team name here, right? And that's, that's the fine line that fans are walking is that, you know, they get this game changing

forward what coaches and front office had said the organization needs, they get it, and he doesn't want to sign here. So there's always that feeling of the other shoe dropping, and that's what makes this whole time right now so strange. I don't think fans, heck, I don't know that I know what to do with all of this, because it's such a different situation. I mean, Yarmou Kekhalainen is known for drafting and loving drafting. And this is the GM who just did what he did.

And it is a crazy, crazy time. Yeah, I feel like it was part of it was when Matthew Shane became available. And I don't know the intricacies of how long they were negotiating or kind of when this all came together. But I imagine when they got him for what they did, all of a sudden, it's like they circle back to it. It's like, well, you know, we've already kind of invested this much into it. And we're a bit pot committed now that we're deciding to keep Panarin and keep a Brovsky. and then the Ryan Zingle thing, it's like at this point, what are two more second round picks?

And we're considering everything we've invested in. We're sort of, you know, we're pot committed to this. We should see it through. And the reward ultimately exceeds the potential risk, assuming they are able to win a playoff series or two. Yeah, absolutely. And it's going to be funny to, I mean, assuming no further moves get made and they go into this year's draft

with what they have, it's going to be funny because for not the best of reasons, this is a city that's used to a draft party. This is a city that's used to, hey, are we looking at, you know, who's the best prospect? Who should we be looking at? And that kind of noise isn't happening. And what's cool about that is there isn't a huge fan base, part of the fan base that remembers that, which speaks to how much it's grown. But you can still see some people who are kind of like, wait, aren't I supposed to be

thinking about, you know, who's the next young guy who we're supposed to be worried about? And when's the draft party? these are things that aren't in the conversation anymore. And that feels weird to see that transition going on too. Yeah, I mean, assuming they don't add any more picks, that's going to be the most depressing draft party ever this year. It's like, oh, who are we going to get in the third round at 100th overall? I can't wait to see what happens there.

Yeah, no, it's going to be good. Obviously, I did a bigger first to fry right now. Allison, let's take a quick break here. I'm going to hear from a sponsor, and then we're going to pick up this conversation on the other things. sponsoring today's episode of the Hockey PDOCast is Seeky. Seek knows full well that getting tickets online can be far too complicated. With hundreds of websites and varying levels of reliability, it's hard to know who to trust out there.

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minutes, you'll be able to get tickets to whatever you want to go see. And obviously, if you're a fan of a team locally that went out and made a big splash trade at the trade deadline, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of excitement to go see that person in action and see that person in your uniform. And so this is a great time to go and do so before prices really get escalated for the postseason. And as my listener, you're actually going to get $10 off your first Seekkeek purchase if you go and shop with them today. So to claim that and get in on the fun, all you have to do is down on the Seekek app and enter the promo code PDO. That's promo code PDO for $10 off your first Seekkeek purchase. Now let's get back to Allison Lucan and the HockeyPedio cast.

Um, yeah, so obviously, I mean, you mentioned the fact that I imagine part of, uh, the decision making process here and what a driving factor was for it was how weak or, or how wide open the metro division is. I think the other one is, you know, I think this is a team that is uniquely positioned to make a move like this because while obviously having, uh, you know, those first round picks and and those second round picks certainly goes a long way to making sure you don't fall behind or you don't have a dead period in terms of your developmental process and you can keep adding and adding to the system and potentially uncovering guys who can come and play for you and contribute and be productive on ELCs.

While I completely acknowledge that, like you do look at this team and even assuming, let's say, worst case scenario, every single one of these UFAs leaves this summer, you still look at a core that is pretty much for the most part beyond Zach Werenski and I guess Ryan Murray is under contract for very reasonable prices. And a lot of these guys are U-25. And so it's not having those first round picks hurts, certainly. But at the same time, there is a lot to build around here.

And obviously, if all four of those guys do leave and you don't retain them, that opens up a pretty significant part of your cap space for you to go out and get creative and add talent through different means. Yes, absolutely. And what I like to is the core isn't just young. They seem to be really tight, which again, when you're looking at an organization that potentially loses at least two guys who've been here for a while, seeing that buy-in and that investment, not to sound overly fluffy about things, but, you know, Cam Atkinson

signs long-term here and it has made Columbus's home. He moved here with his family. So to see that kind of buy-in, I think also speaks to what you're saying, is that this is a group that can stick together that wants to win here. The window is clearly now open, right, for this group. And particularly on the back end, and quite frankly, in goal, I mean, there's a lot of anticipation with what could be coming in net. It's hard because the best talent is in Europe right now.

But all reports speak well of both Elvis Merslick and... Elvis, Elvis, Elvis. And I've been, someone who I've been intrigued by every. since they drafted him as Daniel Tarasov. I was surprised I did a piece on the pipeline going into the deadline. I was surprised how many people I spoke to who really know goaltending who were way high on Teresov, higher than I thought. And that, I think, is really good when you're about to lose, most likely, a player like

Sergei Bogovsky, to know that in theory you've got even a couple options to backstop the group. That's huge too in terms of how young this team is and how good it can be. Oh, for sure. I know I know your colleague Corey Pridman is very high on him in particular. And so I trust him. Certainly. I mean, I'll be the first to admit with a lot of these prospects and especially the guys we're playing overseas. It's not like I'm watching them very closely on a nightly basis. It's a lot of box scouting and you're sort of talking to people and trying to figure out what's going on and whether are there any contextual factors or how they look and you read a lot about it. So I do have to acknowledge that.

But at the same time, based on my understanding of the system. And I actually think it's a sneaky good one in terms of especially the way they've gone about accumulating assets in the later rounds. And maybe that should give hope to Blue Jackets fans that even if they are going to be without their first and second round picks over the next couple of years under Yarmot, they have constantly found ways to get guys in the third, fourth, fifth round that wind up out producing. their draft slot. There's a lot of guys here that I really like. And that's why I know there's certain people that are very high on Vitaly Abramov and sort of, especially based on how he did in the queue in the queue for a couple years ago and the points

he produced there. They were very high on. I'm excited for him to be on the Ottawa senators now as a return in that package. There's a bunch of guys in the system that I personally preferred before that. And that's why I was okay with that Dushain trade, just because I felt like they didn't give up any of the prospects that I really, really love in there. And there's a number of them. And they retain all those guys.

And I imagine that factors into the decision-making process as well, where it's like, okay, if we lose a bunch of these guys in free agency, we potentially have some guys in the system that can eventually come up and replace at least some of that production. Yeah. And I think it's for people like us who look at numbers and things like that, to your point earlier, it gets to be hard because we don't have as advanced of data coming from these guys in the development systems, particularly overseas for good. I mean, thank goodness the HL, how many years in is finally going to release time on ice now?

I mean, that's crazy. I know. But, you know, I think part of it, too, is familiarity is that, I mean, Daniel Teresov has never stepped on ice for a Blue Jackets Development Camp. And so a lot of these guys are players that fans don't know. I mean, Vatali Abramov, it wasn't just his point production. This was, you know, he was walking around with a huge smile on his face and he's got a great personality. And he's easy to like. He's a known entity just in terms of the player as a person.

And I think that drives some reaction for people because, as you said, it takes a lot of digging and commitment to find out what the reality is behind a lot of these guys at these lower levels. And I'll admit, my first reaction was a, ooh, that feels a little bit like an overpay when I heard the trade. But to your point, I had to kind of go back, look at the full system and say, oh, you know what? what, that that's a fair price. I'd love to have had a stone deal where there was also a signature on a piece of paper. But I agree with you in terms of the prospect side price, definitely fair. Yeah, I mean, whether it's, you know, Kirill Marchenko, who I really like, or an Alexander Texier, they have a bunch of guys. And I think the crown jewel of the system, and I wrote about this on ESPN before, and it actually went out like hours before the trade.

So I thought that Columbus was going to go after Dushan even before it was announced. And I sort of pinpointed it as a first, a conditional first, assuming he resigned. And then I thought that Ottawa was going to try and lure a guy like Emil Bemsstrom from them. And, you know, he's obviously a guy whose stock has risen significantly since his draft year. And he exploded onto the scene and was doing remarkably well in the world juniors this year. And I think a lot of people became familiar with him and sort of how potent he was as goal score. But I mean, now, I mean, if you, if you just look at his production in the Swedish Elite League, I mean, he's top 10 all time in terms of goals per game for a U-19 player with some

pretty elite company, including being just behind Elias Pedersen at the same point of his career. So, you know, that doesn't necessarily guarantee anything, but they do have guys like that that I'm still exceedingly excited about. And so when you draft as well as they do, and this is what I keep coming back to with, it's a common theme here in Vancouver where everyone constantly praises Jim Benning's drafting record and sort of his ability to pick out talent and they excuse him never having a volume of draft picks, especially in the later rounds, because he hits on his first round picks. And it's like, well, the drafting is a very, you know, in exact science. And I think having as many picks in the third, fourth round as possible gives you an extra chance to uncover some of

these other guys and give yourself a chance to really improve your system. And the blue jackets have, for the past couple years, it's seemingly at least every year hit a whole run on one of these picks outside the first round, and that makes it easier to make a trade like this down the line. Absolutely. And, you know, I mean, the poster child is Cam Atkinson, who was before Yarmos time, but sixth round pick, right? I think he was sixth and the sixth, and he knows it. He'll tell you when you ask. But I mean, even, you know, we look here at Marcus Nudovara. I mean, late, late, late pick. And he's struggled a little bit here of late, but I mean, he's, I think, going to be a top four defenseman in the NHL for a while. And to your point to find that talent or if you're feeling

like there's a blip, I mean, who's to say that doesn't get packaged for something else, right? So it's all currency. And as long as you have strong asset management, whatever strategy that takes, you're going to be fine. It just might be different. I mean, this is, an organization too that has done a lot of free agent signing. I mean, Eric Robinson is playing with this club right now regularly, signed out of college, undrafted last spring. And now here he is playing on a team with this caliber of talent like we were talking about. So they are finding skill and what they need for the group in a lot of different ways, which is reassuring to people who were freaking out about all those picks that just left.

Absolutely, yes. No, that's the mark of a good management team. We, you know, we touched on this on the beginning and we haven't really gone into yet. So I think we should talk about Sergey Babrovsky a little bit in the year he's had and sort of what's next for him. And, I mean, he's had a strong February, obviously prior to this recent Penn's game. He had a couple of back-to-back shoutouts, including a really good-looking one against a potent offensive sharks team. But at the same time, you look at the overall package for this season and it's still, you know, he has a 907% percentage for the year. He has a negative goal saved above average. like any way you slice it, it certainly is a far departure from what we've come to expect from him.

And then now when you're talking about a guy who's going to be turning 31 before the start of next season, and you hear about some of the potential money that's going to be thrown in a team like the Panthers that might be interested or about the Islanders potentially if they move off of Robin Leonard this summer. You know, I think we're probably in agreement about not or being reluctant to pay goalies, especially long term, given the volatility of the position and non-predictability. So I'm kind of curious in terms of what the confidence level is with him right now and whether he can regain the form. And I imagine, obviously, he's not a guy who's had a particularly long track record of postseason success either. So I'm not sure just like what the confidence level is with him and sort of how he's being perceived in that market as opposed to a Panarin who, despite the fact that I imagine fans might be angry with that he hasn't resigned already or that he might leave this summer is at least having a great season if it is his final one in Columbus.

is. Yeah, I mean, there's the performance side of it for sure. And there's also, I mean, the unfortunate thing for Bob versus Panarin is that Bob has actually spoken to the press. He has spoken to us for many years now. And Panarin still does not. No speak English, although he finally came out and did speak to us when we were on the road in Vegas after he switched his agent. So that lack of exposure or having words dissected is something Panarin's been able to avoid. And I think that feeds into, to your point, perception of the player. Bob Rovsky's going to get his money, like you said, and ultimately, I think any team that wants him is going to look past this season. But it was also very easy to say,

Bobrovsky has been playing quite well here of late, and then income the Penguins, a team that's kicked this group out twice of the postseason. And there's a little bit of a struggle there. Now, I'm not going to hang every single one of the goals on him in that game. But, you know, it is that idea of being great, but then being really great and stepping up and stealing one when your team can't or backstopping your team through a difficult game where you take the stage. And he has done that in the past.

he hasn't really had more than a couple of those this year. And, you know, for a player, and I don't envy the position because I agree with you. This is, he is a tremendous talent, but he's on the long side of 30. And this isn't a guy you're going to want to pay top dollar for eight years. And, of course, that's what he wants, as he should. So, you know, I'm sure he's, he is stressed because his situation is different than Panarin's in that way. And I don't blame him if he is. and who's to say if that's affecting him.

I don't know. He would never admit to that. But it's going to be interesting because Panarin's going to leave with, I think, unless this team does something incredible postseason with Bobrovsky in that Panarin's going to leave the more beloved player, even though Bobrovsky is the player who had a lot more to do with getting this team to where it is now. And who's to say time doesn't solve that problem?

I mean, Rick Nash just came in after his retirement and got standing ovations and was booed when he was with the Rangers. So hopefully that perspective comes around. But I do think perception-wise, fans feel burned by hanging the postseason on him. They feel burned by his performance this year. They feel burned by saying, I don't want to be here. And they're holding on to that little bit. And unless, again, like I said, he does something just spectacular. They love him, but I think they feel, like I said, burned by some of this stuff,

and it's easier to have negative emotion towards him over Panarin. Yeah, and I imagine, I mean, if you're, obviously, it's always a risky proposition, if you're trying to sort of put hip yourself in his headspace and his psyche and sort of what he's looking for moving forward. I mean, you know, he'd turning 31. And the last deal he signed with Columbus, while it was very generous on the, on the cap hit side, it was only a four-year deal, I believe. So I imagine, just based on where he's at in his career now, and sort of the previous deals he has signed, like he's probably going to be looking

to sort of cash in here and sign a long-bred deal that's going to set him up and set his family up for the rest of his life. But I remember you and I talked about this last time I had you on, and I've given it some thoughts since in terms of any kind of historical precedents or parallels. And that we've recently seen in terms of guys that have at this position in the net in the gold ending position that have switched teams in the summer and signed a lucrative deal and the only two I could come up with were the ben bishop one that he set that signed recently with uh with dad dallas and Ryan Miller which was a six million dollar cap hit but only for three seasons and he was already uh kind of considered to be on the down swing of his career so he wasn't

necessarily still considered to be a star one of the top goalies in the league and it's it really is an unprecedented situation and it also complicates it based on this year he has now and I imagine as you said that there's going to be at least one team out there that is going to look past this season and bet on the track record that came before it and think that they're going to get that goalie instead and be willing to pay the price for it but it is a complicating factor because obviously um like I love him I think I think what since the moment he came into Columbus in in 2012 or 2013 he's been for my money the best slash most consistent goalie in the league since. And this year is a very far departure and it's worrisome given the age and given some of the injuries he's accrued. And I'm just, I'm going to be

fascinated to see what the market is like going to be, um, in terms of developing for him and whether he will be packaged with Panarin and whether they'll wind up in the same spot or, or who's going to be throwing the money at him. Yeah. It's a, you know, we, we have done this exercise so many times of who, who wants him and who's going to pay. him and who on that list is the same and then who on that list is is a place or a team where he wants to go. Right. Right. You know, I've said this about Panarin as well in that I will never begrudge a free agent, the right to choose to play wherever they want for whatever reason they want to play. And if his heart is taking him to a place like Florida that's been rumored to be one of

his points of consideration, great. But with all respect to the Panthers organization, organization, you know, Artemey Panarin is not a player who has been on a losing team. And, you know, that's the flip of this. Early on, we heard the Islanders maybe for Bob, but now they have some positive-looking signs in net that they can get for a lot cheaper. What's Calgary going to do, but does Bob want to go to Calgary? What's Edmonton going to do, but does Bob want to go to Edmonton? You know, to put all these pieces together and if the market ends up being,

team that is looking to do what the jackets did, which is build from the net out, you get your money, but is the game, is the play what you want to withstand for the length of that contract too? And these guys, as we know are competitors. They want to win. They want to go all the way. And that's a hard pill to swallow too, I think, when it comes to who's going to pay me and where do I want to be and, oh, what does this game look like for me for the duration of these seven years?

Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, obviously everyone, we're not breaking ground here and saying that the goaltending position is a very valuable and important one. And it generally dictates how a team's going to do. But it really does hammer that point home when you look around the league and you sort of look at where certain teams stand this year and what their goaltending situation is because there's very few, you know,

great or really legitimately competitive teams that have a very volatile goaltending position. Like even a team like San Jose at least, has Martin Jones. They're financially committed to him, so I can't see that being a logical destination. You're right. I think Calgary, especially based on the way they've played this year, and with the skaters they have,

would be a fascinating one, but I'm not sure how appealing that is to Bobrovsky is a landing spot. And so it is a very different situation from Panarin, whereas regardless of a team's financial situation, if Artemi Panarin calls you or his agent calls you and says, I want to come play for this team, you sign him and you figure out the logistics afterwards.

Whereas for Bobrovsky, it is going to be, I assume, a very limited market and trying to line that up with where he actually wants to play. It's going to be a pretty tricky situation for both him and his agent. Yeah, and that's where, and this is with full respect to the agent as well, I know nothing to be other than up and up with him in all of his dealings with all the clubs. But if you're trying to do, as you said, a package deal, how do you make sure to represent the best interests of both of these players because you do want to get that term and money for Bob. You know, and you don't want to do that at the cost of, well, I'll give you our, and I'm

way oversimplifying, but well, I'll get Artemmy Panera in the sign here if you do this for Bob. And that's a tricky situation too, I feel like in that how do you make sure that both guys are getting the very best shake they can get when you have it? And again, this is nothing to do with Bobrovsky as a player or what he's earned, but it's a harder sell because of his age and because of what he deservedly wants to sign for. Yeah. And I imagine out of all these guys, he has the most to gain or lose based on his performance here in the final 20 regular season games. And then however many games, the Blue Jackets potentially play in the playoffs, because obviously a strong performance here would go a long

way towards potentially buying some more goodwill or confidence with a potential buyer this summer. And for this Blue Jackets team, obviously, based on what they've invested in this season at the deadline, I mean, you look at it and they're not world beaters by any means, but what, they're like 11th or 12th and shot shared, their 13th in high danger attempts at 5-1-5. Like, all the underlying numbers by the skaters are there. It's just that they, at this season, have been bottom 10 and say percentage percentage in both 5-15 and overall in all situations. And that's a really hard thing to make up for.

And I'd feel a lot more confident if I at least was assured that they were going to get league average goaltending the rest of the way in terms of prognosticating them to be one of those teams that does make the playoffs. Yeah, and who would have ever thought that's how you'd describe the Columbus. Yes, I know, right? This offensive powerhouse, it just can't get the goaltending. Every time I look, I'm like, oh, well, their PDO is fine because of their shooting percentage. It's so strange. But, you know, and I don't wonder if that's not part of this strategy for the front office too, is they know exactly what you said, which is Bobrof. Ski in particular, and now who's to say maybe even Douchain, they're playing to get the maximum

of what they can get this next contract, regardless of where it is. And what better carrot to put in front of a player to play their best than that, particularly if you're anticipating changing clubs. I mean, that's, I wouldn't be surprised if that is part of what went into their decision making. Oh, for sure. That seems like quite a potent motivating factor, no doubt about it. So one thing that I did notice when I was doing my research for this and really diving into the Blue Jackets numbers is, and this isn't a new trend because it feels like it has been going on for a while now, but the power play struggles. You know, they're 26 on the Power Play this year. And it's mind-blowing to me because I remember, I guess, what was it, two years ago now when they were just absolutely devastating on the Power Blade in that Sam Gagne season, maybe three years ago now. But since then, it's been a big struggle. And I was kind of, hoping you'd have some more answers in terms of what is going on there in terms of why those struggles continue to persist because if you look at the talent itself with peer luke dubois as an at front presence and panarin as sort of the decision maker on the half wall and even

cam actinson as a trigger man like all of the pieces personnel wise seem like they should line up with a team that is at least in the top half of the league and for whatever reason it hasn't happened is it as simple as they're just a bit too reliant on the defenseman they have being the people who are taking the shots from the point, or is there something else going on? Yeah, and I am by no means a special teams expert, although I was crazy enough to sit down and track every single power play about halfway through this year to see if I could find some stuff. It's strange because, as you said, two years ago, they were clicking along, you know, tops in the leagues, and I'll never forget it.

It was a Carolina game at home at nationwide arena, and they just stymied that power play, and it was literally almost like they broke it, and it never worked again. But there's been from a true things we can point to, the departure of Sam Gagne was big. He played that pivot like no one else has been able to replicate, at least in this power play configuration with this group of players. They have not been able to really successfully get that puck into the middle and distribute it back out as much as they did when he was here. they also were really their entries in regrouping just took forever like 20 seconds sometimes it was just maddening

how long it would take if they couldn't maintain zone time or zone control that puck was out and it took forever they had the drop pass entry which was which also became maddening and it did come down to it was it was almost like this group of players went out there and it was they were too affected by the fact that they were on the power play that was struggling there was not rapid passing there was not accurate passing. There was a lot of holding onto the puck so that by the time you decided to move it, either via pass or shot, any possible lane had closed. There was no kind of free-flowing movement to get the penalty-kill players to be stymied

or over-committing or moving too far one way or the other. Heaven forbid, the goalie move. So there was just kind of a passiveness and a lack of aggression from these guys. They brought in Martin St. Louis as a consultant after the... Is he like an offensive coordinator, kind of like what Kings did? Not even, really. So he's not here. He's been in Columbus twice.

He still wants to be able to coach his sons at home. But obviously he has a strong relationship with Torts. He is also a friend, a good friend, a close friend of Cam Ackinson. So I'm sure it wasn't like this came out of the blue to him. But he came in, worked with the guys. The only thing that the players and the coaches will tell us is that it really was more about hearing the message from a different voice and from someone who's quote unquote played the game. And I believe there's value in that. I believe there's value in

finding the right way to communicate something so it gets through, whether that be a different person or a different delivery method or what have you. They've started to look a little bit more free. But it's almost like Saint-Louis is just like special advisor to the head coach. He's here every once in a while. All the guys have his number. It sounds like there's a couple players that Torts has really asked him to kind of get through to Alexander Wendberg and Duclair were two that Torts did mention by name in that situation. But he also seems to be a guy that when he came in the first time, he put his cell phone number up on the whiteboard in the locker room, and it sounds like some guys are taking advantage of that.

And I asked Nick Folino, I said, you know, no disrespect to Torts, but is a release like that helpful in a situation? like this with a coach like this and with expectations like this. And he said, oh, absolutely. He said, you know, a lot of players have those kind of networks, but a lot don't. And so for any player to know for a fact, you can call this person in confidence for counsel, for venting, for what have you, has been very valuable to them as well. Well, especially with the power, but I do firmly believe this.

Obviously, I think talent will generally win out and there's only so much you can do unless you have at least a certain baseline level of it. But on the power play, I mean, I think so much of it, not necessarily like system or structure, but just sort of having a plan in terms of what you want to execute and it being the right one goes such a long way in this league. And I still find that while everyone obviously has someone who's running their power play and they are investing resources in it, just based on how big of a difference it can conceivably make in a league where there's so little room for error and such a small margin, it feels like that still is a

bit of an untapped area where if you find a way to increase your power play efficiency by a certain level through the means of coaching, not even necessarily investing a lot of resources in player, it could go such a long way to bettering your overall result. Oh, absolutely. I mean, it was, I'll never forget last year when everyone's point totals were down, you know, you start digging in, what's going on, what's wrong? And for players like Cam Atkinson and Alexander Wenberg, it literally was a situation of they're not scoring on the power play.

And how significant of a contribution to your point that wasn't just at the individual level, but at the team level. And, you know, that is one of the messages that Tortshammers home, as everyone well knows, that you can't go deep in the postseason with a dysfunctional power play. It's just not going to, you're going to waste such valuable and necessary opportunities. So they seem to be finding a little bit more success of late, which is encouraging. but the end of year numbers are not going to look good for this group because it was so bad for so long. Yeah.

Yeah. I think Alexander Wembers is a good guy to bring up for that, obviously, right? I think the big year he had where he had nearly, what, 60 points or so, he had 20 power play assist. And obviously, basically removing that entirely from the equation for him makes things a lot more difficult. Oh, one more thing on the goaltending before we get out of here. Let's assume that Bobrovsky does walk this summer and is playing somewhere else next season. How much of an appetite do you think there is for potentially, I assume that Elvis will be coming overseas? I cannot wait for that, and I really hope he's in our lives full time.

How much of an appetite do you think there is for exploring, having a relatively unimproven duo net of him and Jonas Corpissalo versus potentially going out and bringing in some other veteran who could play 30 to 50 games and split duties with one of those guys, whoever wins out in camp, because for years now, it's felt. like they've been waiting for Corpus Hollow to kind of take the reins here and give them some level of confidence that he can be the number one guy once Bobrovsky is out of the picture and for the past year and change or so I think the results have been pretty underwhelming and acknowledging that he's in a pretty

tricky situation where he doesn't get to play much and he's still a young guy and at that position that could be a pretty tricky thing to deal with. Yeah, you nailed it with what Corpus'alo situation is. They've been waiting and he hasn't seized it. So he still may become that number one, but he isn't yet. And even if Elvis comes over this year, I would not be surprised to see them sign a veteran in the offseason and either start the season with that person and Corpian net with Elvis seasoning and getting hungrier and hungrier in Cleveland with the HL Club. And then eventually maybe that tandem switches up. but unless Elvis comes over here and just blows the doors off,

and honestly, it'd have to be for quite a large sample of games, too. I mean, if he comes in, has two great games, you can't say, oh, we're good to go, right?

So I think the chances are pretty likely that we see some free agent, one year deal for next year, and then it's two years from now where, as many a jacket fan would like to see, Elvis enters the building. Yes. Oh, my God.

God. That's all I want now. I want Elvis Mersenkin's in my life, and I want him to be just as good as he's looked. I mean, obviously, it's, and, you know, that we have kind of some of these translation factors and trying to predict how performance in different leagues will look at the NHL. But I think regardless, like, this is a particularly difficult one to translate just because the Swiss League, I imagine the shooting talent he's facing on a nightly basis isn't anywhere near near up to part to what he would be facing at an NHL level at the same time. he's been so good for so long now and I'm not sure how much of him being clouded just by the fact that he has such a cool name but god I hope I hope he's the answer as does everyone I mean and you know by all accounts I talked to his goaltending coach last year my colleague Tom reed did a great story on him just as a human and Catherine Silverman did a great breakdown of where he is technically right now but he's really been making some changes both on the ice and off and it bodes well but yes I mean the the name, the story, the personality. I mean, the first thing fans knew about this guy was that he did these insane win celebrations on the ice, right? So, and there's nothing, at least based on what people know to not like about him.

And as we were discussing earlier, when you talk about building up this fan base, building up this organization, I mean, it's a marketing dream for goodness sake. So many of people, and again, back to draft and develop, it would, be a home run on like 15 different levels for him to assume the net in two years. Well, if I know one thing with NHL, it's that people around here love eccentric post-game celebrities. They just love it. Yes.

Well, I'm looking forward to it. Allison, this was a blast. I'm really glad we got to do this. Is there anything else we missed? Obviously, you follow the team quite closely. So you're kind of on top of all the storylines. But I feel like we did most of it, right? Yeah, we did most of it.

I think it's one thing I've come to realize is, you know, if you're, if people are curious about this team, take some time to look past kind of the splash. Cam Atkinson is having a ridiculously good year. 35 goals right now, I believe, right? Yeah, career high. Ties a career high with 20 games left. And Seth Jones, I continue to beat the Seth Jones drum. He is, we talked about Panarin being a joy to watch. That guy's a joy to watch. And if he isn't in Norris conversations sooner rather than later, people just aren't paying enough attention. But there's more happening to your point of the young core and the talent here than just Panera and Bob and Duchenne.

Yes, no, there is plenty. All right, well, this was a blast. Do you want to plug some stuff? What are you working on these days? Obviously, this team hasn't given you much to write about in the past couple weeks. I don't know what you are up to these days, but let the listeners know. Well, I am actually putting the finishing touches here on kind of a recap of the deadline moves. and we'll just keep pinging away at what this group looks like after they get some games under

their belt. Also following the action at the Ohio State level, both the men's and the women's team are pretty talented. So those are some fun storylines to watch as well. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I highly recommend everyone check out your work. And thanks for taking the time to do this. And hopefully we'll reconvene at some point, obviously, regardless of the result, there's going to be plenty to talk about whether they make the playoffs or not. So I'm looking forward to that. Well, it's always an honor to be on with you. So I appreciate you having me back and hopefully we'll talk again soon. Chat, see and Allison. Before we get out of here, I did want to quickly ask everyone for a favorite that's listening to today's episode of the Ocadipediocast. If you could take a second out of your day to

go and leave a positive five-star rating and review on iTunes for the show, that would be greatly appreciated. I know a ton of you have already done. So I believe we're up to 414 or so reviews on there and most of them are five stars and most of them have funny inside jokes or comments from the podcast or just really kind words and I appreciate every one of them and hopefully we can get a few more so we can keep the PDO cast up high on the sports and recreations charts. And if iTunes, for whatever reason, is in your cup of tea, let me recommend going over to Spotify and listen to the PDO cast there. We've recently joined the brigade of podcasts to make the leap there and start posting our shows

and I believe pretty much everyone in the catalog is there right now. So you can go back and listen to some of the old episodes and make fun of all the stuff we got wrong. Or maybe you'll enjoy them. Who knows? But regardless, just go and subscribe and follow the show there. That helps as well. And yeah, that's going to be it for today's episode of the PDO cast.

I appreciate everyone taking the time and listening. There's going to be a ton of new shows coming down the pike here. in the stretch run as we look ahead to the postseason and all the races that are to come. And so I'm really looking forward to that. And with that said, we're going to get out of here. We're going to play the outro music. And I'll talk to you guys soon. The Hockey P.DOCAST with Dmitri Filipovich.

Follow on Twitter at Dim Filippovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.