The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 281: Take a Million Shots, Hope For the Best

Episode Date: March 7, 2019

Sara Civian joins the show to discuss the Carolina Hurricanes, and how this became the year that they finally lived up to the preseason hype. We also discuss their unexpectedly strong source of goaltending, Dougie Hamilton's usage, and whether Sebastian Aho is actually still underrated or if it's time we just universally accept his star status. Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $10 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. A reminder that we’re hosting a daily fantasy listener league contest over at FanDuel every Thursday this season. While you wait for the next opportunity to play to come around, go over to fanduel.com/PDO and tell them we’ve sent you. They’ll hook you up with a bonus $5 to play with after your first deposit, which will surely come in handy throughout the year. See you there! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich. and joining me as my good buddy Sarah Sivian, Sarah. What's going on? Not much, not much. Just got back from Boston into Raleigh. And now I'm ready to continue this coverage of this team. How are you? I feel like you're really underselling the season that's going on right now with the not much. I mean, I was trying to, I was making a list and I was prepping a lot of stuff. I know. It's, it's, I mean, what's your, what's your favorite? favorite part. Is it the, uh, how they pissed off Don Cherry and Brian Burke? Or is it, uh, Avander Holofield knocking out John Jordan Martinuk or, uh, the bunch of jerks t-shirts?

I mean, there's so many things to choose from so far. I think it's the actual hockey, honestly. Um, I like, I love the way these canes play. I like the, um, never quit, never say die kind of attitude. They've only had like three games where they haven't played like what their identity is now and they've won pretty much two of them. So it's kind of crazy. But it's some weird, fascinating hockey going on right now. I'm glad you brought up that identity because this feels a bit bittersweet for me because for the past couple years, I feel like, you know, myself and a bunch of nerds out there as well, we're like talking this team up and we're referencing their great five-on-five stats and talking about how like, you know, if they get just a bit more luck, if they get a save finally

from a goalie or if some of these shots start going in, this is going to be a team. to really keep an eye out for. And then this summer, for whatever reason, I feel like part of it was after that Jeff Skinner trade might have been Tom Dunnins' kind of early initial comments where he was talking about this team, like prioritizing grit and grind and all this stuff. I was like, I don't know. Maybe I should kind of get off this quarter and sell a little bit of my hurricane stock.

And then finally, after years and years of being disappointed by them, I get off that quarter and they blow up and become the most exciting story in the league. So there you go. Of course. makes no sense. But people are calling this the nerd victory lap and Dom stuck to his model and Manny and all the folks out there are kind of retweeting their old tweets from like months ago that they, I think Mani had one that the hurricanes are the best offensive team in the last decade. And they weren't scoring goals for like five games. And now they cannot stop scoring goals.

So he keeps retweeting it. Yeah. I remember one of my first articles for ESPN back in like early December was, I was talking about teams that were a bit unlucky or were set to get better. And the hurricanes at that time were shooting under like 7% or something as a team, which would have been a historically bad rate. And obviously they've kind of, yeah, no, they've come back down earth in the opposite, in the positive direction for them. And now they're scoring goals, like, it seems like four or five a night. And obviously combined that with a goaltending and we've got something good cooking here.

I don't know. Like, what's the vibe like? Because I've really enjoyed following hurricanes, Twitter. It's a very lively bunch. I feel like they're along for this ride and finally kind of enjoying this moment after all the years of suffering and disappointment. But are people finally allowing themselves to buy in and get excited by this team? Or is there still a little bit of that kind of hesitation of like, I don't know, I've been burned so many times before that I'm going to slow play this a little bit. There's still that.

And you can see them kind of getting excited and then being like, oh, it's still a long race. This is still a tight race, et cetera, et cetera. But it's funny the power of even slightly above league average goal attendant. because people are like, oh, now they're getting lucky. And then it's like, oh, wait, this is what it's like when a goal tender makes saves, like in a timely fashion. So it's funny to see them kind of winning games they shouldn't maybe. And then they're like, oh, the team doesn't have to work 10 times harder than any other team.

Like, sometimes they just need a good goalie a net. And, like, they can't believe it. And I think that's been lovely and hilarious to experience. But I think, I mean, there's all different stages of Hurricanes fandom. And I think some people are just enjoying this ride for whatever it is because even if they don't make the playoffs, it's just, I mean, obviously with a storm surge and with the guys in this group, the atmosphere here is awesome. And I think playoffs are not. Brindamore is kind of bringing in a new era. Yeah.

I mean, that goaltending, I think that's probably a good place for us to, I guess, start this conversation. Because, you know, I've been a fan of Petter-Mrazic for years, and I thought that that was a good gamble. from them, especially for a one-year deal. He had a lot of all obviously to play for, and it was a good bet for them to make. I didn't see this Curtis Macley anything coming by any means where he's having a career year at whatever age he's at right now. But I mean, you're right. Like, if you look at it for years, that was the whole story. It's like, can they please just finally get a save? And maybe some of this possession can matter. And they were pretty much either like 27th, 28th, 29th, or 30th, and say percentage at both 5 and 5 and overall for 5 straight years. And then now,

they're in the top half with this kind of rag tag group. And if you told me at the start of the year that they were having this performance, I would have been like, okay, well, maybe Scott Darling finally lived up to their potential and put it all together. And instead, it's like, no, it's a pretty even split between Curtis McElady and Petter-Mrazic and both guys on a one-year deals. And both guys are kind of killing it. I guess McAulaney more than Razick, but Razick's had that kind of boom or bust potential

of his where when he's on, he's really, really on and he's stealing games for them. Yeah. And Marazick has played in front of when the, uh, Hurricanes P.K. It was terrible. So I think that kind of goes along with it. And I also think he's gotten progressively better as the season goes on. He makes the, he looks like, like, Lilo and Stitch. He looks like Stitch sometimes out there, like literally doing backflips. I'm like, how are you doing this? And then McAweenie's like, the calm is for, it's funny how it's different. And I also think there needs to be credit for Mike Bales, who is the Penguins, um, goalie coach. And now he's,

and he like helped Mark Andre Fleury. And now he's here and he makes the, calls. Like, Brindamore barely doesn't really worry about it because Bales has it under control. And he basically picks which goaltender is appropriate for which night and like, just kind of assesses it. And I think he's done an excellent job. And I think, I mean, Don Waddell told me in the beginning of the season that Marazac called him and said, before his agent could get to him and said, I just want a one-year deal for cheap, not as much money as I probably would have got, but I want to prove that I can be the number one guy. And then when Darling got injured, they picked up, Mcalini just happened to be on waivers, picked him up. And they held three goalies for a really long time.

And then it was clear that Darling, it just wasn't working out. So they decided they would keep McEleney. And like, that's obviously kind of an unexpected gamble on a weird call you have to make, but it couldn't have worked out better. They keep joking that they have like a leaderboard where they're comparing shutouts. And I'm just like, I listened to him say that a week ago. And I'm like, oh my God, the Carolina Hurricanes goalie? It's crazy. Yeah, no, it's nuts.

And obviously, I mean, this is a great situation. But I think one, they probably didn't envision heading into the year. And now they have two guys playing this well. And both guys are on the one-year deal. So I'm fascinated to see, I guess, you know, there's still enough time left in the season. And we'll see how both the regular season and a potential playoff birth plays out. But it'll be fascinating to see how they approach that in terms of whether they reward one or both of these guys for the years they've had, whether they keep them long term, whether they go elsewhere. I mean, the goalie market isn't particularly flush with talent this summer.

There's Sergey Babowski, obviously, and I guess Jimmy Howard. But otherwise, it seems like kind of retaining some of these guys and bringing them back just based on the success they've had, especially with the goalie coach there, as you mentioned, might be the way to go. And yeah, it's crazy that we're talking about this. The hurricanes have all of a sudden a bunch of goalie options and things are looking good in it. It's a wild ride compared to where they've been the past few years. Yeah, I mean, I've heard that the Keynes were, like, inquiring about, Howard and

Brovsky, but of course they're going to inquire about like every goal tenor see what's up but I've also worried they're not going to make

any decisions about pretty much anything now until the playoff pushes over because come on here we are it's been glorious all the games

have been so fun and so exciting and like just the way the team plays for each other it just feels kind of different I don't know how to explain it really but it's

it's pretty different are you surprised covering the team that they didn't really make any moves at deadline? And obviously Michael Furland was like a big topic of discussion. I'm sure they were fielding plenty of calls on them.

And I guess apparently no one really kind of blew them away. Otherwise, they probably would have dealt him as an impending UFA. But it felt like sort of with Jordan Stahl coming back from the injury list and then the need-on-eater-rider trade, it felt like those were kind of their two big acquisitions, even though they didn't necessarily do anything the actual day of. I mean, when you're making the GM of the other team cry like a baby, cry himself to sleep at night, I think like that's your trade. And that's what Radell basically said.

He was just like, yeah, I mean, obviously we're always looking to make our team better. And it came down to the wire with Furland, 10 minutes to go at the deadline. They decided they didn't either get a big enough return or that's just their guy. And they, the locker room is really working right now. And I know it's cliche, but they didn't want to take something out that would ruin that. And I mean, you saw it in the first, what, 10 minutes of the game last night. but that's the kind of hit that a hurricane hasn't dished out in years. So that kind of stuff is an intangible that if they're going to make a playoff run,

which they clearly are, which is kind of wild that that worked out. But, well, wild because, you know, that was the trade. And I know they have a lot of defensemen that are kind of redundant, but the market, like, there was a lot of people in the market, but I don't think it was that great. So I think if they're going to deal one of them, they're going to wait till the off season where the market kind of expands more for what they're looking for. Yeah, I mean, the Nina Neider Trader trade was such a home run, and we can get into that a little bit. But you know, you're mentioning earlier how people are taking a victory lap and they're retweeting old tweets to make them look smart about the hurricanes.

Like there's a lot of gems out there, I imagine, for people to go back and read some of the discourse about Neider Rider when he was traded from Minnesota where, you know, he's washed up. he's not worth it, the money he's making, he's not going to make a difference well about this and that. And I was getting a lot of it from wild fans. And I was just pointing out that this seemed like a smart gamble for the hurricanes to take purely from the perspective that, you know, he was a bit unlucky. And it felt like the guy they were trading the other way didn't really represent that much upside.

And it seemed like a smart deal for him to make. And I got a lot of commentary from wild fans going like, no, you don't watch enough Minnesota games to comment on the fact that the Nito Nieder rider is not actually that good. And here you go. You put him with Sebastian Ajo and he blows up. and he's pretty much at a point of game now in his 20 games with Carolina. Yeah, that was the thing. I mean, I remember the first day,

Neider-Gagher, he said that, you know, GMs and coaches have their horses that they run with, and it was clear that I wasn't one of them, but from the start in Carolina, Brindamore put him on the first line, put him on the power play, and then moved him up to the first spot in the power play, and he just puts him out in overtime,

he gets the game-winning, like, assist, and it's just he scores, like, two goals per game, game on the regular. He already has the same amount of goals he had with the wild, with the hurricanes now. And it's just like, it's crazy what a vote of confidence can do. And a lot of wild fans have actually followed me and they're like trying to keep up with Nino and they're very sad about this, but not in a mean way. Like they just, they want to see him succeed because he's a good guy. And Rousseau, who covers the wild for the athletics. And it's the same thing. He's a good guy. And that's who the hurricanes are looking for right now. And I know that's, that's,

cliche and stupid and you're like oh you're like and he's obviously a great hockey player too but they needed to build up some type of culture in this room and now they totally have it do you think a lot of hurricanes fans are following in with the minnesota wildbeat reporters to see how victor rask is doing i mean i think they feel sad about it because rask i mean i everybody wants him to succeed and he keeps getting derailed by injuries he got injured again poor thing but um i think they expected him to be the kind of not savior but like the solution to their center depth issue which they still need

they're going to probably fix it on the off season or wait till um marty and a chis can come up but i think they expected that out of him and he just wasn't just i just i just can't ask they might feel bad but he like i don't think the canes fans are keeping tabs on that or being i think they feel bad yeah i mean i like them as a prospect like he had a good junior number He just unfortunately, I feel like, and part of it might be the injuries he's had, but he just can't really skate well enough to play like a primary, at least top six

role in today's NHL with how fast the game's gotten. It's kind of, it seems like it's passed him by a little bit. Like, I think he's got skills, but it seems like he's kind of like this player from a, from a bygone era that would have been a lot better maybe 10 years ago. Yeah, yeah. And it's a shame. He's a nice guy. Like, he funds his sister's professional hockey career over in Sweden.

And he showed me Swedish house music. So thank you for that, Victor Rask. But best of luck. I don't think anybody is keeping tabs on that. So a lot of the players that I want to talk about on this Hurricanes team with you are guys that I think, like, it's always tough for me to tell because I feel like, you know, you kind of as hockey writers and people who follow the game closely, we surround ourselves a bit in this bubble with people who are really diehards and really following the game very closely. And so I guess from my perspective, it feels like everyone I talk to knows that a guy like Sebastian Aho or a Jacob Slavin are awesome players who do all these things remarkably well. But then I kind of take a step back a little bit and think about it. And maybe your casual fan who only, you know, who works a 9 to 5 job and comes home and watches hockey for an hour a day outside of the market of Carolina.

I might not necessarily be very familiar with him. But it seems like it is becoming that thing where it's like everyone just keeps talking about how underrated Sebastian Ajo is. And then I look and he's like top 15 in scoring. he's on the highlight reels every night and it feels like you really have to be like going out of your way not to follow the NHL as a whole to not know who Sebastian Aho is at this point in time. At that point it's on you and I think, I mean, maybe the storm surge and stuff helped, but I remember a reporter in Boston last night asked, oh, if like the bunch of jerks thing rallied them together and he was like, no, no, we've been good all season.

I love how Valenti is. Oh my God, he kind of roasted me yesterday, but he's like, we've been good all season. And it's just true. And I think if you don't notice that, I get it because the hurricanes aren't always on, but you should watch their broadcasts because their broadcasters are hilarious. But at this point, it's like I was looking at tweets or something because I used to cover the Bruins, obviously. And I follow a lot of Bruins fans.

And they were like, yeah, when you beat it, they were praising the Bruins for beating the tough Carolina Hurricanes. And it's like, okay, here we are now. Now we're at the point where everybody knows. everybody knows Sebastian Ajo. He is a bona fide 1C, and he is scoring, I forget numbers. They're very good. But you should know him and you should know Jacob Slavin, and it's not Slavin all the people that make announcements in the press box every day.

Like, you should know his name. Yeah, I'll give you some of the numbers on AHA. I'm prepared. He's top 15. He's tied for 15th in points with Mark Sheifley. He's, I had him at 13th, I believe. in terms of offense creative for his team right there with Brad Marshawn and Jack Eichol. So he's right there in that sort of de facto superstar territory where everyone thinks of the top guys.

And I know you talk about this a bunch. And for anyone that doesn't follow you, I definitely highly recommend doing so. But you talk about his conditioning and how impressed you are by it. And I did notice that especially since the All-Star break, he's playing like around 21 minutes a night. And I make sense. I mean, he's a young guy. So you'd expect that sort of ramp up in his game and in his responsibility.

but especially with these games becoming to mean more and more. I love the idea of sort of relying on your top players and sort of living and dying with them. And if you lose and they're out there, that's one thing. And you're not kind of going to be going home disappointed, wondering what could have been if you could have gotten a guy like Sebastian Aho out for another shift or two. Well, you know what? It's funny because, yeah, he's a young guy playing him as much as possible. But Brindamore is his coach.

And Brindamore played like 24 plus minutes a night when he was like in his well, into his 30s, and I think he just sees the same type of fire in Aho, no matter how old he was, and that he had in himself and how much he hates losing. And I think that's what motivated Brindon put Aho on the PK and make him every situation. There was one game he scored a PK goal, it was his hat trick, a PK goal, an even strength goal, and a power play goal. And he leads the league, he's tied, but he leads the league and penalty. goal goals with four short-handed.

And it's just like, what? Like, I was asking him a few months ago after his, like, second PK goal, have you been working on the penalty kill? And he was like, actually, not at all. Like, they just threw him on there. And he's just so well-conditioned. And I don't think people are expecting him to capitalize on your mistake, but he'll do it every single time.

And he was, like, pushing Charra yesterday. And he was getting kind of physical, too. So I don't know. Like, he's very impressive. He is very impressive. I think he might actually, and this might be. be a bit to his detriment and sort of what we were talking about in terms of the whole underrated discussion. It might be he sometimes makes it look a little too easy and it sometimes it feels

like people can kind of like take that for granted or sort of, it looks like he's not even trying out there just because he is so effortless and so smooth in his game. But, you know, that and the combination of making guys better and whether it's been Michael Furland or Nino Niderot or Justin Williams or whoever's really played on his wings seems to produce with him. And that's sort of the high benchmark with a litmus test for me for when you've kind of reached that, top level of superstar. It's like anyone that plays with you is going to have a good time and produce. And that must be such a luxury for a guy like Rod Bindermore to know that even though he has that sort of set top line now with Williams Aho and Nieder Rider, he can rotate it if need be

and put anyone with him and they'll still keep chugging along and that must be such a luxury. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I was talking to Finland about it just kind of, God, we're all realizing how good Ajo is and how he hasn't even hit his ceiling and has more gears to go through. and he was like, yeah, it's just like playing with Johnny Goodrow. They'll hound you. They'll yell at you. Right after you even got a goal or something, they'll be like, get back, get back.

Like, they're yelling at you. And just, it's awesome to picture 21-year-old Sebastian out of my goal for a little. That just really makes my life. But, yeah, it's great for Brindamore. And, I mean, it's funny because they aren't doing much different, but we'd be having a totally different conversation about it maybe a month or two months ago,

because they just were unlucky and they couldn't they kept trying but to no avail and it's like I guess to me that really showed how the element of luck in hockey and I don't know what else I guess shooting selection whatever but they really bought in at the time I remember talking to one of them about it and I was just like you guys like after talking about all the bounces and stuff I'm like you guys really believe that and he's like no totally like I think we're just it's due and then they try to scoring all these goals. Yeah, no, I mean, they've been playing like this all year for people that have been watching, but I remember there was like a little bit of a road trip there early in the year.

I believe they went into Minnesota and then they went, I think it might have been a back-to-back. They played at Winnipeg the next night. And I forget, like, they might have won one of the games in overtime and lost one of the other ones, but they completely just dominated both teams and had like 50 shots on goal in both those games and just ran into some hard goalies. But I remember watching those games and being like, okay, like this is a team. We definitely need to take stock out.

just because even though the results aren't necessarily there yet, like just the way they play sort of passes this eye test where they're just this like, kind of like what Vegas played like last year, where there's just this relentless forecheck and they must be so difficult to play against because you can never really take a break just because they're never taking their foot off the gas pedal.

They're constantly coming at you, and eventually that will lead to goals if you keep generating that many chances they have. Yeah, that's what the Bruins were actually saying last night. But it's just funny because at the same time, like all that, and all that and all that, but the fans are like, we get it. Yeah, we're sick of this because they haven't gone to the playoffs in nine years.

Like, we get it. They could be good. They're just unlucky. Make it stop. Make it end. Like, it was starting to seem like they were cursed. And there was, like, conspiracy theories about, like, their stats and stuff. Like, I'm glad for, like, people involved in stats that this actually did work out.

Because I was starting to think, like, are stats broken? Is there some stats? all of that is going to like and I do think that they aren't the most not to insult them but they aren't the most talented team but they do outwork everybody and I was thinking maybe stats are right they just need more skilled players but I think it was kind of a regression thing and also a young team learning how to be confident and also Justin Williams deciding he's going to play like he's 27 yeah no he's been incredible it's remarkable to watch it's kind of this like fountain of youth playing alongside Ajo. But no, you're right. I mean, they clearly are, it does sound cliche, but it's,

it's true that they are outworking other teams and sort of playing that brand of hockey to make up for some of those talent gaps. But like, I do caution it because sometimes those types of terms can kind of just get thrown out willy-nilly. And in this case, it's like a functional hardworking system where like they're actually generating stuff with it and creating a bunch of loose pucks and really making it tough on opposing defensemen to get out of their own zone and stuff like that in the neutral zone. It's not just like throwing the body around for the sake of doing so while you're chasing the fucking giving up goals against. Yeah, exactly. Okay, let's take a quick break here to hear from a sponsor and then we're going to pick up this conversation on the other end of things.

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And obviously there's a ton of pros. We already talked about Aho. We already talked about the goaltending. I mean, they're 5-1-5 player. There's nothing really new to cite there. They're like a top three team and pretty much every single shot share metric. And I think they're fifth and high-danger shot. So it's not like they're quote-unquote gaming coursey and just throwing the puck of the net from Center Ice.

But one of the cons that I have, one of the cons that I have. is their power play. And I mean, I think they're like 20 second, I think in efficiency. I think they're slightly higher in terms of goals per hour. And it's not one of those things where it's like the Montreal Canadians are 31st. And it's like, man, come playoff series. If they don't figure this out, this is going to be a really big problem. But at the same time, when I do watch them, and I know you're probably sick of talking

about him and sort of beating a dead horse at this point. And he gets probably, you know, he takes, he's the whipping boy kind of. takes a lot of the blame even when he's not necessarily responsible. But there is a bit too much Justin Falk for my liking. There's, you know how people say there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen? In this case, there's a bit too much Justin Falk in the kitchen. I feel like I need him to kind of take a step back and, you know, miss out on a course or two here.

He doesn't need to be involved in everything. Sit this one out, mix in a water. But I agree with you. And I, like, but what is he going to? to do when they're like go out for three on three O T's going to be like uh no thanks um put dougie in instead like I like I don't know why I'm frustrated with that and I understand why fans who have seen folk play for years and now have a new Dougie hamilton who's supposed to be like their best whatever who's supposed to be doing what folks doing and they're like why the hell

isn't this guy doing the thing and they're probably mad about that which I I totally get but I think they're totally blowing it out of proportion. He got two back-to-back, I think, not game winners, but he scored in the power play twice in back-to-back games, and he was because he was using his wrister, but then he makes one bad play, which I think DeBreska, it's actually a matter of DeBres making a better play in overtime and it's the end of the world, but I do, I get it.

He's playing probably two many minutes, but what is he going to do? like sit it out no of course it's obviously not um i think sometimes i can kind of get misconstrued the criticism like it's not clearly his fault obviously it's like when a player signs a big contract and it's like i can't believe this player would take the money this team was just throwing at him and backing out the brinkstruck like it's of course obviously you're blaming the team and you're blaming the coach in this case but i think there there is i mean he's i think only sebachanoly plays more especially on the power play and it feels like the power play is kind of like come on I don't know, I don't think it's the solution if you switch him and Dougie,

but I don't think it will create a bigger problem. And at this point, like, but Prindamar's whole thing is like you're going to give a guy a chance or something, but then it's like why don't, Dougie was playing well defensively in like a few, no, I don't think he did it last game, but in a few games. And it's like, okay, give him a chance then on the first power play, but I don't think it's going to happen. But I think it's more of a matter of the way they set up. I don't like it. I don't like the umbrella system.

But I get it because they have so many players with the same shot. So it's a really weird setup that they have to do. But when it's on, it's on. When it's off, it's like, oh, my God, they're giving up another puck at the blue line. No, you're right. I mean, it's clear like his shot is a weapon. I'm with you. I think I'd like a bit more creativity there in terms of moving around

and potentially creating some different shooting lanes. because it's like this whole idea of having just the big canon from the point and just catering your entire power play set up towards like just teeing them up and trying to shoot from as far away as possible through a bunch of screens and bodies like seems like it's probably not the best way to go about it when you have especially a guy like sebashanoho who the power play really should be running through at all times and like falk is 14th in power play shot attempts which i which kind of blew my mind like i know he plays a lot but whenever you have a guy like Justin Falk ahead of Kuturov's, say again and dry-shead.

I feel like maybe the power play set up needs to tone it down a little bit and maybe direct the puck in some different directions. Yeah, I totally agree. But I agree with that. And I don't think it's really an issue of swapping somebody out for another one. But I get, why not just, if it's not working out, why be stubborn? Why not just change somebody? but I do think when he was using his, the last two that he scored in,

he was using his wrister and it looked effortless and it looked easy and, I mean, just let him do that. I don't really know what the conversation is, obviously with the PowerPlay squad, but it, I don't know, it's really hard to evaluate because they'll go zero for five in a game that mattered and they'll score like three for three.

And it's like, what is even going on here? Well, where are we at with Dougie Hamilton? We've kind of like, I think we've kind of skirting around this. We've been talking about him a bit. And I think people, especially at the start of the year, we're very upset with his usage in his ice time. And it's come up a little bit. And I think the fact that the hurricanes are winning and are so fun to watch and are in this playoff race now has sort of alleviated some of that kind of consternation.

And people are a bit more cool with it. I imagine if they were losing more, people would kind of be pointing the finger and wondering, again, allowed what's going on? But I don't know. Like, I, what have you been here? He's on the first defensive pairing with he gets to be of Jacob Slavin. That's an honor. Yeah, it is. I wish I could play with Jacob Slavin.

I'm sure he'd make me look competent. He's that good. Yeah, but I think, no, he's been playing awesome lately. He has, like, it's just, like, clockwork with him in the first half of the season. Maybe he struggles to find his game a little bit, but second half he plays well. But I've been noticing it on defense, too. it's all clicking for him at once. But I think he does the same,

he makes the same defensive mistakes as folk. That's why I think they're very redundant players. Like I think both of them would benefit being away from each other, like on a different team because you only want one. But it's kind of awkward, I think. But I think he's doing great and he's coming up pretty much when he needs to. But I think they would both thrive more in a situation where they get to be that. guy. So I think, like, one of them has to go in the offseason. But, I mean, Dougie fits, I hate when people talk about his character. Like, they know. Like, you don't know him. You can talk to him for one minute every two times a week and act like you're going to judge his character. But, I mean, I think he likes it here. I think he fits in and it's not an issue. Like, none of that might have been an issue somewhere else. I think he, for whatever reason, is not an issue here.

Yeah, I think part of it is also just kind of like balancing expectations too, and I think I'm guilty of this little bit myself because I remember like when they traded for him this summer, I was like, okay, finally, like he's going to play like 24, 25 minutes night, he's going to be the top defensive defenseman on this team. His points are going to explode all of his offensive production. And if you look at it, like he's been playing the same as he did in Calgary. His underlying numbers are still through the roof. He's scoring a ton of goals just because no one shoots the puck like him. He's an absolute madman shooting it from the point. And so. Oh my God. I have a story for you. Yeah, give to me. You know how he has like 200 something whatever the largest the longest streak of shots in the NHL like it takes a shot a game he almost didn't do it a few games ago and like everybody was on the edge of their seats and then he did it with like less than two minutes to go and the whole bench was giving him like stick taps and they were like he got his shot that's amazing that's like those like sellout streaks for teams that aren't actually like selling out they're just like filling the seats with like random like towels and stuff. It's like Douggy Hamilton just shooting it with two minutes left.

Keep the street going. No, I mean, obviously like he's a great offensive weapon. And I think his defensive game has certainly come along quite a bit, especially as the seasons are going along. And I think it is some of that, like people will just like, I guess if you prorate as stats on a permanent basis, that they're just as good. But I think it's kind of people who are just expecting more from them.

And I imagine this summer, uh, we'll see how these chess pieces sort themselves out. But I imagine if a falk does get moved for, especially for a forward this summer all of a sudden, I wonder how what the, the scuttle butt's going to be like about him and whether people are going to let themselves kind of get super duper excited about it again and think that he's going to be in the norah's conversation and putting up 50, 60 points a season.

God, like, I don't know. I think it's time to just temper your expectations. Like, I don't think, I think he does his job, but I think I get why maybe he doesn't play a million minutes a night. Like, I think he does have, I've watched some plays where he kind of collapses on defense. and somebody like Rod Brindamore isn't going to play a guy like I'm writing a I've been working on a story that he how are they making it work because Dougie's like an offensive-minded defenseman and Lindemore was like the poster child in the beginning of like

a defense first forward so it's like how are they going to make it work and I get how the situation is happening and I don't think like he's just going to do brindamore's going to do what he's going to do. And I think Dougie's fine with it. Like, I, I think he's okay with it. Yeah. Well, we'll see. I think, you know, we mentioned Slavinder and I, uh, I feel like if we're doing this podcast, we have to talk about him at least a little bit just because he, he actually does feel like one of those guys that, you know, I was talking about how Ajo's not actually that underrated because everyone should know about him at this point. It feels like Slaven probably is still underrated just because the stuff that he does well isn't necessarily sort of this like conventional,

amazing highlight real stuff. But then there was like that play last night where he does make a mistake and he turns it over with a shot to Brad Marchand. And he chases him down and he strips him with this beautiful poke check on this shorthanded breakaway he was on without taking a penalty. And it's like, I was just wondering like how many guys in the league could have executed that without taking him down without it being a penalty shot or at least like a hooking penalty. And it just, he does that time and time again.

I feel like he has like one or two plays a night where he provides. a goal or does something ridiculous where you're like, oh my God, this guy is an absolute freak. He's like a poster child for what a shutdown defenseman should be. And he also has kind of a bomb of a shot sometimes. But I think my favorite thing about him is when he slows down the game, like it will be getting too feisty. And then he takes it the puck out back. And he just is kind of like walking around. And everyone's like, what is he doing? But like, I think people are like, they're catching their breaths and then he kind of just runs it like a quarterback. I haven't really seen anything like that and he can do the stretch patches. Like everything also when he makes a mistake rarely, he will go

like you said with the poke check. He'll immediately go make up for it. Like he's guilty or something. Yeah. And how he gets away with like obviously just like any defenseman he's going to make mistakes and he's going to pick over, but like how he recovers from them is is so remarkable to watch because I think in his career I was looking this up, he's like he's taken under 12. He's like, he's taken under, 20 penalties at 5-1-5, even though he plays top minutes against the other team's best players. And there's not really any comparables of defensemen who do that. Like the other guys who don't really take penalties who play defensive minutes are, you know, Ryan O'Reilly and Sasha Barkoff, but it's an entirely different set of responsibilities for them.

And I love that. I think, especially in today's day and age, I think once upon a time, people might have got on him for being soft because he has these low penalty minutes, but it's like, no, he's just so good and so smooth that he doesn't need to hook and hold and take guys down. Yeah, and when he does get a penalty, he doesn't swear in the penalty box. He doesn't swear on TV because kids could be watching. He's just everything you want your kid to watch to grow up and play defense. Well, I mean, obviously he doesn't want to swear with with Svetnikov around.

Obviously, that would be a very bad influence. No, that's like Martinuk's son. Like, they were fighting together like two games ago, and I was just thinking, don't talk to me or my son ever again. That's amazing. It was Spetsnikov sticking up from Martinuk. I'm just like, you're 18, but he has like forearms of absolute glory in steel. And he like, he is just, he's huge for his age.

And he, I mean, he's not having the season maybe like you'd expect over it out of that draft pick. But he is on a line where he has been making plays and he's been doing his thing. But they might not be able to capitalize on it. And that's just where they're at right now. but next season when NACIS comes up and can be his center, like, or he, whatever happens in the lineup, he'll move up in the lineup. And Brindamore has really been working on his two-way game with Svetnikov, and Svechnikov wants to learn so, so bad.

And Brindamore can teach him everything. He's the first one on the ice and the last one off, like every single day for like hours. Well, and I think we've seen that. I remember there was that one game against like the Rangers, I believe, at MSG where Brinda Bore entrusted him to be out there with the empty net and when they were defending a lead and we're like, we see these types of, you know, flashes or, uh, responsibility divvied out to them that you don't typically see from a, from an 18 year old. And you're right. You have a member, he's 18. It's hard because it looks like he, like, I don't even know, but

well, he looks like a grown ass man. He looks like he should, like he looks like he should, like he looks like he definitely belongs. And I think that, you're right, once he starts playing with more skilled players that can take advantage of his net drives and what he creates around the net. I think the numbers will come there. I think the shot generation numbers are very encouraging. I think if there's one thing, he's been a bit sloppy with the penalties.

But I mean, that's kind of the norm for young players. I remember there was a year where Sidney Crosby in his rookie year, I believe, had over 100 penalty minutes. And, you know, he's toned it down. And he learned how to play. And he learned, you know, some good things who came to Cindy Crosby eventually. So I think there's a lot to be positive. about, yeah, I know, who is that guy?

But actually, especially God with the penalties, he, Brindamore's kind of not doing that on purpose, but kind of letting him play through it so he gets to see, like it's hard, especially in international hockey. Like, he's playing in Russia, and then he did play in the USHL, but it's like he,

it's hard to adjust to that at the NHL pace. And also, like Crosby, the refs will actually call way, way more and way less against you if you're a star rookie like in the top draft picks and that's actually the true thing so they're keeping that in mind but it's like it's super frustrating it is but it'll come i'm i'm still optimistic um is there anything else with this team that we haven't really talked about yet like i guess we can kind of look ahead to the postseason race and obviously like it's it's pretty jam-packed there right they're sitting currently third in the

metro but there's like four points either way they're they're just behind washing and i but then they're tied with Pittsburgh and Montreal and then Columbus is right behind them. So it seems like someone's going to get... Yeah, someone's going to miss out that is a good team and it might be the hurricanes. But I noticed like, you know, I think Dom had him at 85% to make the playoffs and I think Micah has them at 81%. So it seems like especially with their underlying shot profile, like people are very encouraged by them, even though I did notice they have a pretty tricky schedule with back-to-backs

coming up to end of the year. Yeah, but as Brindon Moore said, the other day. That's a myth that back-to-backs are harder to play against. He was like, that's a myth. Somebody made up. I don't know where it came from. And then somebody else was like media.

And he was like, yeah, maybe you guys get tired with your traveling schedule and you can't stay on your game, but we're fine. And then I looked up the stats, and I think they're 8-3-1 on the second half of back-to-backs. Like they are now maybe nine. I don't need, like, I'm actually writing a story about that. So check it out on the athletic in maybe front.

Friday, just about how they deal with their back-to-backs on the road. But that is one thing that doesn't worry me about them. I also think they're a young, hungry team that's like they thrive in those situations. I think they do worse when they have like a few days in between. Yeah, I think back-to-backs are definitely probably overblown. I guess the one thing that we do have the numbers on is that like goaltenders struggle in the second of back-to-backs, but just considering how they've been rotating

McAllenia and Lasick, that seems like they're. pretty well suited for that not to be a problem as opposed to some other teams. It might be relying on their starter to play like 70 games a year. Yeah, it's a good college hockey tandem. I haven't seen anything like this since college hockey where they played back-to-backs every weekend. And I'm like, I do think this team reminds me of college hockey and like not to insult them. They're like elite talents.

But in some ways, it reminds me of college hockey where they take a million shots and like kind of hope for the best and also the back-to-back goaltending and stuff. And I think, obviously, Rod played college hockey, and I think I like to think that maybe he also doesn't rate lines, like, for second, third. And that's what they did in college hockey, too. So I like to think that there's some Michigan state influence on that man. That's going to definitely be the title of this episode. Take a million shots and hope for the best. I like it.

It's just a Friday night. Yeah, exactly. Well, the thing is, then they also do kind of, I guess, kind of control their own destiny, right? because they have two games against the penguins, two games against the capitals. They play both Columbus and Montreal. So it's going to be a, uh, controlling your own destiny. It's going to be a lot of, uh, a lot of tense moments, I feel like. But this is, this is the, uh, you know, I think Hurricanes fans are going to be excited.

Like, they haven't had this type of, uh, sort of stimulation and excitement in their lives in a long time. So it's pretty cool to, to be having it this year finally. Experience came to hockey. I love the fan base so much. I think they are so self-aware. Like, there's not really, I, I, maybe because it's a relocation team that hasn't been in an area for 500 years.

So it's like the fans are maybe younger or like, I don't know, but I have some older senior subscribers to the athletic. And they're just so, they just get it. I don't know what it is, probably years of existential dread. But I just shout out to them because it's the best fan base by far I've ever dealt with. Do you find that covering a team and, I guess, like a smaller market or quote unquote non-traditional hockey market. Like, do you feel like you're getting better access or sort of they're a bit looser

with the rules in terms of letting people talk to you and sort of what comes out and how much they have fun with it as we've seen in the postgame celebrations and all that sort of stuff? Well, I think also the PR, Mike Sunhine and Pace Sexter are always in like the running for, there's like a PR award at the end of the year and they're all, like that's for a reason they're the best. but definitely it's different, right? Because there's like three or four reporters for the hurricanes and there was like 70 Bruins reporters.

So it's no disrespect to the amount of access you get somewhere else. But I think there's also an understanding. Like I'm not like somebody who's out to get you or something like that. Like I want to write about Calvin Khan's brewery. I want to write about like Sebastian Ajo Boy Genius. I will be critical and I've had conversations with some people in the Cains and they're like, no, like, yes, if we're going to be a legit hockey team, yes, we want to be covered. And that is, it's been great, basically.

Like, the access is awesome, but also I am kind of feeling more confident and being able to use that access to my advantage. And part of it's working at the athletic now and another part is just kind of being in a smaller market. but yeah, I mean, things like the storm surge, it's like they, that would not happen in Boston, but it's great here. Yeah, well, speaking of being critical, I'm looking forward to hearing from Eric Tulski about where we messed up and what we went wrong and sort of in our analysis. He likes to, he likes to critique me after the podcast. Listen, this is a blast, sir.

I'm glad we finally got to do this. As I mentioned, it's bittersweet that this is happening the year I wasn't super-duper high on them, but I'm glad it's finally happening. and it's a big win for numbers nerds everywhere and for hockey fans. This is a regardless of sort of this like pushback from curmudgeoning people about what they're doing after the game and stuff. Like the NHL needs more of this and the more teams that are having fun with it and enjoying themselves and realizing this is just the game, the NHL is going to be better off for it. So hopefully this starts a wave and if it really is a, you know, a copycat league,

maybe some other teams down the line will start doing stuff like this as well. We'll see. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, plug some stuff. What are you working on these days and where can people check out your work? I'm working on two pretty exciting stories right now. Basically, what it's like, I travel with the canes, obviously. So like on a back-to-back with the canes during this kind of like crazy time.

So I'm going to kind of give a behind-the-scenes about how they've managed to be so cut in the back-to-backs and also like what it's like because there are a lot of schedule changes and things like that. And then I'm also working on kind of a behind the scenes of the broadcast because it's a pretty interesting one if you haven't heard it.

John and Tripp, John is, they're just the best. They're, I don't think people get to listen to them enough because it's the Keynes and they aren't always on like on the prime time or whatever, but should check them out. Like there's one, Tripp Tracy talking about his ex-girlfriends, John Foresland being the straight man, and then he has a million catchphrases that he uses perfectly.

It's just a great time. So those are two things in the works. Yeah, I love John. Obviously, we nationally get him a bit on NBC broadcast sometimes, and that's a blast, and hopefully we'll get more of them in the postseason and maybe even for covering hurricanes games. So I'm looking forward to it. Sarah, thanks for taking the time, and we'll definitely get you back on down the road. Can't wait. Thanks for having me.

Cheers. Before we get out of here, I did want to ask for a quick little. favor from all the listeners. If you could take a minute out of your day to go and leave the PDO cast a glowing, positive rating and review on iTunes, that'd be greatly appreciated. There's been 417 of you so far that have left reviews, and a lot of them, most of them are five stars. And I love to see that and I love to hear from you guys. So, you know, you can just leave a nice little review there or you can reference some sort of an inside joke from the podcast or what have you. It all counts the same. It's all greatly appreciated. It all goes a long way.

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little spot to get all your podcasts so please go do that as well and with that said we're going to get out of here we're going to listen to the outro music and we will be back i think sometime early next week we've got a couple exciting shows planned there's obviously a lot going now with the playoff races and the postseason just around the corner and I've got some fun guests lined up and so I'm looking forward to that and until then thanks for listening to today's episode of the PDOCAST and let's get that outro music finally the hockey PDEOcast with Dim philipovic follow on Twitter at dim philipovic and on soundcloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey pdocast