The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 292: Round Two Chess Matches

Episode Date: May 2, 2019

Rachel Doerrie joins the show to help dive into some notable round two matchups that have caught our eyes and captured our attention. Hurricanes vs. Islanders (1:40) Sharks vs. Avalanche (34:00) Adam Fox, College Free Agents, and the Rangers (50:00) Remembering Jason Botchford (1:02:00) See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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joining me is my good buddy Rachel Dory. Rachel, what's going on? Not much, Dimitri. What's happening? What is happening is we're deep into round two here. I'm excited to do the show with you. I know I had you back on a couple weeks ago, and usually I rotate the guests a bit more,

but I had such a good time diving into the X's and O's and some of the numbers for certain matchups that I figured we'd do it again. And, you know, round two isn't necessarily that kind of like seemingly never-ending roller coaster throw ride that the opening round is, but I do feel like it gives us more time to sort of sink our teeth into it, actually appreciate and focus a bit of the chess match that is going on in some of these series

as opposed to just kind of just like sitting back with our eyes, peel wide open and just watching the game. So there's like it's not as much quantity, but I feel like the quality is a little bit better for us as analysts. Oh, absolutely. I agree. I think like when you're watching the first round, there's so much going on. It seems like multiple things happen every night. And then once the second round kind of hits it, it gives us a chance to really do. dive in and kind of say, okay, what happens?

Because realistically, there's really only one game on at a time unless a game goes to double or triple overtime. And so I think I definitely agree with you in the fact that as someone who watches the game from an analyst standpoint, it's a lot easier to digest everything that goes on. So have you been watching? I wanted to start off with Hurricanes Islanders with you today because when I previewed round two on the most recent episode with Justin Cuthbert, we still didn't know who the Islanders we're going to be playing, so we kind of stayed away from previewing that

matchup. So I haven't talked about these two yet, especially not as in depth detail as I have the others. So have you been watching this one? What are your kind of initial takeaways? Yeah, I mean, I've watched every game of this series just because I think there's a unique sort of storyline there in terms of the fact that the Islanders this summer made some signings and everyone said they're kind of anti-analytics and they kind of go against the grain

and obviously the canes have Eric Tulski and well they're known as the bunch of jerks which they have turned into a great sort of marketing campaign but I think it's kind of a clashing of playing styles and belief systems almost and so for me it's been a really interesting series and I think the series has probably been a lot closer than the 3-0 score

but I mean we talked about Robin Lainer potentially having some regression to the mean. And I think that's exactly sort of what's happening here. I don't even know of necessarily Rebel Lenters regressing. I mean, he's not stopping like 95% of the shots as he was in round one. But I think he has a 9.30% percentage in this series. And I think in game three, he gave up three goals on high danger shots against, which exceeded his entire total for the postseason prior to this game.

So I guess from that sense, like he's finally starting to give up some goals. But it does feel like I think it's kind of like lazy analysis. I've seen people on Twitter and I've seen people on TV going like, well, Robin Leonard just can't win against the hurricanes over his career. And now that they're losing, should they switch over to Thomas Grice? And it's like I get like the psychological element of maybe kind of signaling to your team that it's a dire situation and you have to change something. So you're doing it just for the sake of being able to show your players. and your fans that you're doing something. But I think if you're pinning any of the blame for this 3-0 deficit on Robin Lennar,

you haven't been watching the same series that I have. Yeah, no, I'm not blaming him by any stretch of the imagination. I think that I think the Islanders have been also incredibly unlucky at the other end of the ice. I mean, I think it was in game two. They hit three posts slash a crossbar in the third period. Like Jordan Eberley had one go off the corner of the post and crossbar. and it bounced down instead of bouncing in. I mean, there's been some luck definitely on Peter Marazig slash Curtis McElaney's side of the ice.

And so it just hasn't been bouncing that way for the Islanders when you really think about it. And that's sort of been the difference. Like when I look at the numbers, they haven't been as lopsided as I thought they would be. but I mean Carolina is still winning the territorial battle as we all expected it's just not as lopsided as I thought it would be in the islanders last night had more rush scoring chances and I actually thought that their first half of the game was very good it was I think in games one and two you know the hurricanes were certainly lucky to go be going back home with both those victories I think if anything it should have been a one on it you could even make the argument to dial on very easily if you replay those games, however many times would be up to nothing in quite a large percentage of them. It's, you know, the shot, the high danger chances in those first two games were 21, 12 to

Islanders and they were actually sub-50 percent, sorry, north of 50 percent in five-on-five shots. So they were really holding their own, and you mentioned some of those unlucky breaks and even the, I know technically by the letter of the law, he kicked it in, but that gold, Devon Tave scored, they got called back, that would have made it to nothing in game two, towards the of the second period was just like a remarkable feat of physical capability that he pulled off. I feel like just based on child. That should count. You should get, yeah, you should get some type of reward because if you can do that, I mean, we don't want to encourage players to be kicking the puck like that.

But to be fair, I mean, he was just trying to get it to the net front. And you can, if you can do one of those things, like I've seen soccer players, I can't do that properly. So. Yeah. I think it's a very niche rule. I'm not sure how many times it would come into play. play, but if you're behind the goal line and you kick it with your heel through your legs,

through the goalie's legs, and then let's just count it. I think, uh, yeah, like, let's just use discretion. Yes. Um, no, but that's why I think, you know, if we had this conversation before, uh, game three, it would have been a little bit different because I think we would have both kind of been lamenting it from the Islander's perspective and going like, man, they really are lucky here. I think after game three, we got back to, I think, what we would have expected. based on their individual track records,

which is just a clinical 5-1-5 performance by the hurricanes. I know the Islanders did play better early on, but as the game went on, especially after they went up 3-2 in the third period, it felt like the Islanders just completely fell apart, and they couldn't really string two passes together. They pretty much didn't enter the offensive zone, and it was just all hurricanes for the final 15 minutes or so.

And it was kind of got back to what we'd expected, and I think it was kind of like a little bit of a return to normalcy. And I don't know, from the Islander's perspective, how much of this do you chalk up to just kind of it happens. And I think maybe just because of how the regular season went for them and how round one went for them, maybe it's a bit jarring to their fans, but this does happen in the postseason.

And it's just, I guess that's the ironic part of this, considering the track records of these two teams with the hurricanes being this team that always dominates a 5-15, but couldn't get any bounces, couldn't get any goaltending. And then the Islanders kind of playing above their heads and not necessarily having great shot share numbers,

but still winning anyways. And especially in the first two games, those roles were completely reversed. Yeah, it was interesting because I didn't think Carolina played badly, but they certainly weren't getting the scoring chances. And like you said earlier, the Devon Taves goal that got called back, you kind of saw the Islanders sink a little bit after that,

and the Keynes really kind of came on and played their game. but yeah like in game three when we saw the rules kind of return to normalcy it isn't what i expected because i mean i don't think anyone expected the islanders to sweep Pittsburgh um i think i had been beating Pittsburgh in six but at the end of the day i mean when you have a clash of belief styles and playing styles to this degree um it's going to come down to bounces and goal tending.

I think Thomas Grice does have good numbers against Carolina so I'm not saying that it's Robin Lainer's fault but is that potentially something Barry Trots looks at going into game four? I know I would at least look into it. I'd be shocked if the Islanders weren't at least looking into it considering how they split the goaltending all year.

And I mean the tandem did win the Jennings trophy So they're both imminently capable of stopping a hockey puck and maybe, I don't know if Wainers may be tired or maybe he just has a mental block against Carolina. I know some goalies have that. So I potentially look at throwing Thomas Grayson because of the success he's had against Carolina Hurricanes. And I mean, at this point, what do you have to lose? Well, I think from the Hurricanes perspective, I think they've certainly looked into who they're facing here and just acknowledging that in any other series, like if McElady and Brassick, weren't out of their just dominating so far maybe this be an entire different story and we'll be be talking about how robin lender once again has a 930 say percentage but i think you know something

that has been pointed out by uh the point hockey on twitter which is which is uh i keep mentioning on every show now is my favorite twitter account but uh one place where lner has been susceptible has been on the blocker side and once again we've seen the hurricanes exploit that a little bit and that's kind of one of those things that especially as you get more tape on a guy in a postseason like this and you see him time and time again every other night you can sort of kind of key in on that a little bit more and instead of just throwing the puck at him it seems like there's been a bit more of a concerted effort to uh you know switch move the shooting lanes and and sort of try to negate how well the islanders do in terms of blocking the shooting lanes and just kind of making life easier

for leonner and so they're they're changing the angles quite a bit and also working uh you know the tips a lot we've seen a couple of the goals they've scored kind of off weird net front bounces and deflections that have clearly been a point of emphasis for them. Because I think regardless of whether Leonard's tired or whether he has a certain area of his game that can be exploited, like if he can see the puck and if it's down low, I feel like he's going to stop it more than pretty much any other goal in the league. So you need to do something else, which is great to see because I think for a long time, kind of an argument against the hurricanes and them being an actually dominant five-on-five team was kind of some skepticism about the shot share numbers and how much of it was that. just throwing the puck on net from wherever and it not actually being a good indicator of how good

they really are and we've seen them adjust that in this series and actually use some of that kind of advanced pre-scouting to swing the series in their favor and take advantage of where they can on Lennar's weaknesses as they may be yeah i definitely i can recall a few goals that they've gone to the blocker side on that maybe you generally would have shot um to a different spot depending on kind of where you are on the ice and the lanes that are available and the rebounds that you're trying to create. But I think that I've noticed with Carolina a concerted effort in terms of getting to the net front, getting in front of him, taken away his eyes, and then getting sticks on pucks because even if you get a deflection, if it doesn't go in, there's more than likely going to be a rebound.

and when there's a rebound, I believe the percentage of a rebound chance goes up by something like 40% in terms of whether or not it's going to go in on the shot. So when you can create rebounds because you take away the goalie's eyes or you're deflecting pucks, which Carolina has done a terrific job of through the first three games, that's sort of how you're going to score and whether or not your expected goals show. that or not creating rebound scoring chances i mean you've got the goalie out of position at that point and there's definitely been more than a few goals in this series where the carolina hurricanes have capitalized on on that and i think getting schmachnikov back is absolutely going to help them

because i mean not only is that guy a sharpshooter but he's certainly not afraid to plan himself at the net front yeah and i thought he had a couple great net drives where he took it out wide and then brought it back in towards the net and created great chances in game three but You're right. I mean, in a series like this, especially where there's so little wigroom and it feels like, I mean, obviously games one and two were both one goal games. And game three, even though Carolina scored a couple empty netters there late was still pretty tight for most of it. Like one little goal, one little bounce here or there is ultimately going to make the difference. And, you know, in game one, we see the hurricanes kind of, I don't know if it was a pass or if it was just a fortunate deflection, but it bounces off the back wall and it comes right to Jordan Stall. And Leonard's not set and he can score on them there. You know, the need of it. rider, beautiful tip, but still kind of goes to what we're talking about to give them the game winner in game two. And then even that Tara Vinen early goal that gave Carolina the one-nothing lead in game three was kind of just like a weird little bounce where he was at the side of the net and it

came to him and Leonard just wasn't set. So a lot of this stuff ultimately, like you don't want to critique the Islanders too much because it is pretty clear that this is a point of emphasis for the hurricanes and they're executing a game plan and that's what these playoff series do come down to. Exactly, and I think that the bounces in the playoffs are so much more per announced and prevalent just because the mistakes are so few and far between compared to regular season hockey. And so when there is a bad bounce that leads to a goal, it's like, oh, my God, that could decide the game. Whereas in the regular season, it's a little bit more open.

And so you don't really have that. But I've noticed that even the Islanders have been getting their chances. Like Nick Letty has had a lot of rushes. The Islanders are getting their chances off the rush, and they're successful when they do that with the exception of their identity line, which interestingly enough has played a little less. And that's Barry Charles just recognizing I've got to get my skill out there and just kind of hope that the Barzelles and the Baileys and Andersley kind of carry me.

But I think that if the Islanders get the bounces, I mean, a few might go by Curtis McElagney and then there's kind of it's a reset because if the islanders get their confidence back it could turn rather quickly yeah unfortunately they dug themselves quite a bit of a hole here but yeah I don't think we're necessarily breaking huge ground here by saying the team that gets more more balances is going to wind up winning a playoff series this is a pretty common thing it just I guess it's kind of interesting seeing the shoot put on the other foot because it's just like with Islanders fans all of a sudden lamenting this and citing PDO and being like oh this is so unynolds.

unfair like it just it's it's it's funny how uh people can sometimes use narratives to uh or kind of use the numbers to shift it however you want to justify their narrative you're coming into things with well it's not even just that it's just like using things to switch their narrative so i mean islanders fans using pdo to sort of justify things is just about as rich as boss and bruin's fans saying that any other player in the league is dirtier than bradmarshand like it's like come on guys Well, we're going to get into Brad Marchion later when we talk about that series, and we're going to talk a bit more about narratives with this one. But I did quickly want to get into, you know, when we're talking about the goaltending of the hurricanes

and how well Marzick and McElany have played. I mean, they've given up only the one five-on-five goal on 70 shots so far that they've faced. And the Islander is kind of being snake-bidden. I think if you just look at some of the numbers for them and their forwards, the one that I keep really coming back to is Anders Lee because he's had so many chances around the net and he's been just so unlucky so far and that's kind of the one where you can point to him and be like ah man that that's really a tough break because he just based on what he's generating and how he profiles as a high efficiency shooter and from those tight areas he should be scoring more

goals here for a lot of the other guys i think this is just ultimately you know kind of coming back coming to roost a little bit where for the longest time we were talking about how despite the team despite the fact that this team kept winning games would be like uh you know they're full whereas just the talent on guys like Matt Barzal just really isn't there. I'm not sure if they have enough scoring ability to keep up with some of these better teams come to postseason and ultimately didn't matter against the Penguins just because they weren't giving up anything and the penguins were so loose defensively. But now when they're playing a team that is a bit tighter and a bit more difficult to deal with defensively,

they don't have nearly enough of the game breakers that can kind of take things into their own hands and create stuff. Like we saw Barzal have a couple inspired rushes. that one beautiful move where he split the defense and nearly scored in game three, but beyond that, it does feel like at the end of it, we shouldn't necessarily be shocked that this is happening.

Like they've been unlucky, but just based on the true shooting talent, I feel like it's not necessarily that wild of a thing, as opposed to some, you know, previous historical matchups we've seen when like a dominant, a dominant capital team gets shut out by Yaros Lappalak and we're like, okay, like this is just ridiculous.

Yeah, or JSG gear shutting the red wings down. Like it was, that was a mismatch in talent as well. And I think that you're definitely right in terms of how the islanders kind of gave up nothing defensively against the penguins. And that's how they were able to limit what the penguins did. But Carolina kind of comes at you in waves and consistent waves. And they've got someone pretty much on every line that can do some damage. Whereas with the islanders and you think about it, their shooting talent, it basically rests on their top. line and maybe with one guy on their second line.

And so you become, when you got defensemen like Slavin and Pesci and Dougie Hamilton, you become a little bit easier to defend and keep to the outside when it's just one line really that you have to worry about. Well, I'm glad you brought up that Islander's fourth line a bit earlier because when we think about some of these playoff matchups, I think so many times it comes down to, especially when you have two teams with very different, you know, styles or ways they want to play, it comes down to which team can kind of execute their game plan more

and get the other team to play how they want them to play. And it felt like for large stretches of the first couple games, like there'd be little breaks here and there where we'd see the teams go up and down the ice and trade scoring chances and it would open up. But for a lot of it, it felt like the Islanders were kind of dictating to terms of play in terms of getting,

the hurricanes to play a bit slower and dumbing the game down a little bit and really, you know, playing that more defensive brand of hockey that we've come to know from them. And for parts of game three, even though they did create a couple chances and, you know, Bailey scores a goal there and they create some turnovers, it did feel like their hands were kind of flying off the wheel a little bit there with the hurricanes really opening it up. And that ties into the fourth line because, you know, in round one against the penguins, we saw trots go to them a lot against Crosby. line and feel confident with that matchup and sort of acknowledge that doesn't they might not be our

most skilled guys but if they can help us control things territory a little bit here in five-on-five and really play physically and slow the game down the way we wanted to be played it can lead to a positive domino effect for us in this series they've played them less they felt the need to kind of overcompensate a little bit by playing their skilled like guys more and especially that second line with brock nelson has just been absolutely caved in and that's what i keep coming back to in this where at the end of the day, goaltending aside, bounces aside, you just look at it and the Hurricanes top players

have dramatically outplayed the Islanders' top players, both in terms of forwards and defensemen. Yeah, I totally agree. And even the Brock Nelson, like Warren Fogel, I mean, he's having a terrific playoff, but he's vastly outplaying Brock Nelson in this series. I mean, Sebastian Ajo has been really good. Tevoterovine and has been very good.

We haven't even gotten at Jordan Stahl yet. and they just got Schochnikov back and he's not even close to the top line. So when you're getting contributions down your lineup and the other team really isn't getting the contribution that they need, from whatever perspective they see that, whether it's like you talked about with slowing the top line down. Like I don't think that Trots would feel comfortable throwing their identity line out against this Carolina top line because they don't play the same style that the Pittsburgh top line does. I mean, Crosby will get it down low. He'll cycle it.

He'll use his body so they can lean on him. Sebastian Ajo is very slippery. He's very difficult to deal with. And so you can't play that style with those players because defensively that's a nightmare of a matchup. And so I think not only are the top players getting outplayed, but the secondary players and guys like Warren Fogel are vastly outplaying the league. likes of Brock Nelson. Well, and if anything, you know, where the Islanders really, like their

bread and butter in round one against the penguins was just dumping the puck in, going in the forecheck and exposing those penguins defensemen and creating a ton of turnovers and really executing there. And the hurricanes are one of the few teams that has the horses on the blue line to counteract that and actually go back, get the puck, avoid contact at least for long enough to make a play moving out of the zone and that neutralizes what the islanders really want to do in terms of both slowing it down and creating a lot of their offense through defense. And so I think from that perspective, it just is a really bad matchup for the Islanders. And we've seen a lot of that from this Hurricanes Blue Line.

And they're one of the few teams that has more than a couple guys that could really hold their own there. So I think that's also part of this as well where just from an X's and O's perspective, the way these two teams match up is also favoring the hurricanes quite a bit. I think that's a great point about Ajo and his line. And just watching how well they move and how they're always in the right place at the right time and sort of the stickwork and the hand eye and everything. Like it has really been a joy to watch.

Oh, absolutely. And you make a great point that the Carolina D. I, for my money, in terms of puck moving, up and down, all six can pretty much move the puck with significant effectiveness. And so even then, like, they all skate well, for the most part, they're pretty big. So you're not going to go in and be physical and win that physical battle because they're just, they're as big. And they're not afraid to take the hit, but they're good enough skaters that it's very rare that they even have to take the hit to make the play because they're just so mobile. And the penguins weren't, and most big D aren't.

You're seeing Brent Burns and Eric Carlson kind of get shut down a little bit by, like, Colorado and with the islanders team speed is not their strength but they have really leaned on that forecheck and I think that this is probably the one team in the Carolina hurricanes that can really counteract that just because their D is so mobile. Yeah and I don't want to get ahead of ourselves because obviously both these teams need to take care of business but just kind of looking ahead to a potential conference final between the hurricanes and the blue jackets like that would be such a fascinating matchup from just two teams just going power versus power and and it's kind of doing the same things really well in terms of just that endless team speed and

the forecheck and how those things match up. And, you know, whereas I think like a Bruins, uh, hurricanes matchup would be similar to this one we're seeing so far. Obviously the Bruins have more scale, obviously. And they can maybe capitalize a bit more. But I think ultimately it would be stylistically very similar to this one, whereas blue jackets would add an entirely different dynamic. And I think just watching the pace of that series would be remarkable.

So I think, you know, people make this argument and obviously it's a very silly one about how, you know, Carolina's not this traditional hockey market. They make fun of teams like the Blue Jackets and the Hurricanes. But at the end of the day, I think if anyone is actually tuning into these games and watching, like just from an aesthetic perspective, that conference final would be remarkable to watch. And it would really be highlighting like the best components of hockey and NHL hockey in 2019. So all sort of like attendance jokes and everything aside and fan-based stuff is. side, I think it's just two great teams that are remarkable to watch, and I would definitely sign up for seven games of that. Oh, for sure. I think it would be a track meet, and that might drive towards crazy, but I think it would be abundantly entertaining, even if you just

remove all the forwards, right, which, I mean, you've got Panarin and Ajo and Terrivine and Duchen and Dushain and all of this. Look at the back end. Like, Carolina's got a really talented back end, and then you go to Columbus, they got Werencki and Jones. And so your forecheck, this whole dump the puck in, is not going to cut it in a series that has defensemen of that caliber because they're just far too mobile. They're far too good. And so that's why I kind of think that Boston's having a little bit of trouble even now in the same way that the islanders are because they like that heavy forechecking style. And both teams in Columbus and Carolina just have really mobile D and they've got forward to come back and support the puck. and so it's very quickly turned around and going in the other direction.

And that causes problems for the islanders and for Boston, respectively. This is a really random thing, but I'm curious for your take. How do you feel about goalies who play the puck? I love it if you know what you're doing. So I don't like Ben Bishop in the most recent game. I mean, he was sort of out there and then he ended up flopping like a salmon. But, like, Mike Smith is a very, he's very good at playing the puck. It's just, he's got those blunders every once in a while.

But if you can go and you can confidently play the puck, then it's like an extra defenseman back there. I mean, when I played, I used to love when my goalie played the puck because she was really good at it. But when you're sort of not confident and you're just kind of adventuring out there, that's sort of when I'm like, well, you know what, just maybe stay in the net and let your defense can do it. But I think it also depends on the decor that you have.

have. So when you have Carolina, there is no need for Marasic or McAulini to come out and play the puck because they're mobile. But when you're maybe a team with not as mobile as defensemen, then you sort of hope that you have a Mike Smith type who, for all his mistakes, he's kind of like a third defenseman back there. I've seen the guy break the puck out for the flames many a time. and so for me as long as it's controlled and you're not being an idiot about it then it's effective. Yeah, maybe it's just confirmation bias on my part

but I felt like watching that game three especially like Lennar had a few adventures back there and then ultimately it wound up coming back to bite them with the Williams goal after Aho obviously made a great play to kind of knock it out of midair but still like I think that's kind of my irritation with it because I agree especially against the strong forecheck, if any of you don't have a great blue line,

like it can help quite a bit. But I do think sometimes the effects of it can be overstayed a little bit just because I feel like based on the series of potential things that can go bad as soon as a goalie ventures out there, whether it's injury, whether it's a turnover, whether it's shooting the puck outbacks and a delay a game penalty, what have you. I feel like those negatives generally outweigh, like,

a successful breakout every here and there that a defenseman probably could do, obviously, you know, contextual stuff aside. So I don't know, just stuff like that sometimes. Every time I see a goalie bench around, I'm just like, oh, God, please, just get back in that. Yeah, I mean, Peca René is actually another goaltender that just came to mind. He's pretty good at knocking the puck down. When teams rim it around, he's pretty good at knocking it down and just settling it down. So I don't need you to make a pass.

I'm not asking you to do anything. Just set it there. So, like, guys like Yosey and Suban can come back and pick the puck up. because, I mean, if the puck gets rimmed in, Renee knocks it down, leaves it there, he's back in the net by the time any four checker is within 10 feet. So that's sort of, I'm okay if your goaltender does that consistently.

But like you said, if it's an adventure like it was with Robin Liner, it's got to stop. You've got to stay in the net. I completely agree with that. I think it is one of those just pet peeves of mind that I keep coming back. Similar to how, like, I've really grown

the opposite way of when it comes to defensemen shooting the puck. I remember I used to like lauded a lot and praise guys like Brim Burns. And now when I watch it and I just watch like how much Justin Falk shoots from the point. And I know that he scored that beautiful breakaway goal coming out of the penalty box in game three. But generally like just it feels like that is where possessions typically go to die. I know it can lead to deflections here and there and rebounds and so on and so forth. But especially as we pivot towards this, you know, Sharks Ave series. they were going to talk about in a little bit here.

They have some defensemen there that could certainly shoot the puck a lot more than they do, but it seems like they pass up those low percentage opportunities for potentially much more lucrative stuff down the road. And I've certainly noticed that as I've watched more and more over the years, I've gravitated towards that from, and it's just a personal taste perspective. Like, I don't know analytically if it's necessarily that big of a deal, but I think just from a subjective sort of what I like to see from my hockey players, that's what I would gravitate a bit more towards. I definitely agree there.

And as we get into that Shark's Ave series, I mean, Carlson and Burns, well, Burns is a volume shooter. But I'm seeing a lot now from some different defensemen that whether they're passing the puck up, like you mentioned, or sometimes they're shooting, Seth Jones does this very well, you're shooting for the deflection, or you're shooting for a stick. So instead of shooting to get the puck on net, you're shooting either just to get it to the net front to either create a net front. scramble or you're shooting at a player's stick to sort of get that deflection. And I think that

that's very effective because deflections have shown to be impactful. And so if you're just shooting for the sake of shooting, I abundantly agree with you that that's probably not the best way to go about things. And you're better off making that pass down low, whether it's behind the net or to the half wall so that it could potentially get into the slot. Because the odds of you missing the net from the point versus missing the net from the net front are definitely different. Yeah, okay, let's see a quick break here to hear from a sponsor and then we're going to really get into that series and the other end of things. Sponsoring today's episode of the Hockey PDOCast is Seek. Seek is a ticket company where the customer comes first. With more than 50,000 five-star

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Yeah, okay, so the Aves, it's funny because, you know, they're down to one in this series right now, and they're playing tonight. So by the time people are listening to this, maybe it's 2, 2, maybe it's 3.1. It's very conceivable just with how offensively gifted the Sharks team is. and now that Martin Jones is at least playing competent goaltending for them. It's very plausible that this is just a five-game series and the sharks wind up winning it and it doesn't ultimately matter. But even if that happens, I feel like I'm going to come away from this experience,

just feeling so positive and excited about this abs team. Like it really feels like they've kind of captured people's attention and interest and become sort of appointment of viewing just based on the personnel they have or the playing style. they're executing, like, for whatever reason, and we can get into some of those individual players here, but I just, aesthetically, I just, I've really, it's been an eye-opening experience just watching them

on a nightly basis this postseason. Yeah, I would say that the abs are probably, for my money, the most entertaining team to watch left in, in the playoffs, and that's probably because of the personnel, but the way they move the puck through the neutral zone, I mean, they come at you, speed. Everybody comes. You've got the D jumping into the rush. And it's just, it's so much

fun to watch because it's scoring chance after scoring chance. And as a hockey fan and someone that watches the game, that's what I want to see. I don't want to see you pass the puck around and get a shot every two and a half minutes. I want back and forth, track meet, and it'll give your coaches heart palpitations. But that's the kind of entertaining hockey that people want to see we like scoring. We like scoring and we don't care who knows. Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, I mean, especially with McKinnon. And I don't want to get into too much again because if you want to hear Rachel and I discuss

him, just go back to two episodes ago where we spent like 20 minutes singing his praises. But I mean, just both numerically some of the numbers he's putting together, but also just watching him play. Like, it's just, it's insane watching him move through the neutral zone and how he's able to combine this speed and power. the sharks have actually done a very admirable job of kind of creating this just like artificial wall of human mass to try and slow him down and upend him as much as possible and make him get rid of the puck before he enters with speed but you can only do it for so long and

as we saw in game three you know one bad pass by brem burns on a breakout gets picked off by Ian Cole and all of a sudden you look up and Nathan McKin is just coming at you full speed and he snipes it by both burns and the goal lead it's like you can play well for pretty much every shift and you have one bad one and it's in the back of your net and that just speaks to the greatness of this player yeah and i also feel like on the like when mckinan's rushing obviously nobody is as fast as him on that team um but the d do a great job of getting into the rush so i mean i have loved watching kale mccarr and um sam gerard um and when bednar puts them out together and like yes yes please keep doing that because they move so effectively with and

without the puck so when mcinnon's rushing or landisogs rushing and they're on the ice they're joining the rush and so that's sort of now you don't have maybe two or three players coming at us speed you've got four or five and you have to back up at that point because if they get by you that's a big problem And that support is a great point. And watching them at 5-1-5 has been such a cool experience because I think typically as much as we like to think that the league and sort of playing styles and, you know, roster construction and thought processes and stuff has evolved and adapted over time and we've become much more progressive. You do typically see that when you have sort of your kind of traditional puck-moving defensemen, especially a guy who might take a, a few more perceived risks. Coaches still typically pair that type of player with your more traditional stay-at-home

conservative defensemen. And watching these two guys together has been very instructive. And if teams are paying attention, they will learn from this because they're playing off of each other so productively. And obviously, you know, this might just be a case of these two guys are just unique specimens and you can't just put any two similarly profiled defensemen together and expect same results. But just watching how that interplay in the offensive zone where, you know, people should go and check out this gif I tweeted out of them from early in the series.

But it's a lot of like they're just constantly moving in the offensive zone. And one of my issues with how teams sometimes attack in the offensive zone is it can become very sort of stale and stagnant and easy to defend because if everyone is just in your staying in your traditional position. Like it's very easy for the other team defensively to know where you're going to be where the shots are coming from and position themselves accordingly. In this case, they're like switching spots left and right. They're doing spin moves. They're constantly probing and passing out. And it kind of reminds me much more of like a basketball offense where you're trying to like penetrate and attract attention and then kick it out to a shooter. And just watching them

execute that was just the thing of beauty. And they've done it time and time again in this series. And I hope to see more of them moving forward. Yeah, and I admire, I mean, let's just say this, that the odds of a coach in any game, never mind a playoff game, putting a player with a grand total of, I think, six games of NHL experience with another rookie defenseman are slim and none. So kudos to Bednar for recognizing that this could potentially be a money pairing for him and trying it because, let's face it, the stakes are really high. and how we talked about one bounce could decide a game. When you're willing to put, I mean, two guys that are barely 21 years old out there, it says a lot about the trust that you have in them and who they are as players. And I like where you're going with the basketball offense

because teams are trying to find new ways to create offense. And when you have defensemen who can skate the way that Gerard and McCar do, you can have them go down, you can have them kind of rotate around, whether it's they rotate with each other or maybe they rotate with a player playing on the half wall that can then come up and come down the pipe but get a pass and get a shot from the middle of the slot at speed in the way that you talked about kicking it out to a shooter.

It just creates so many more options when you have five players on the ice that can consistently move, consistently get themselves to positions where they can make passes or receive passes. and so you can build your offense around that kind of playing style. And that's not really a playing style that has been introduced into the NHL quite yet. So it'd be interesting to see how teams defended that on a more consistent basis just because there would have to be some type of adjustment for that.

You just wouldn't expect the need to be that active. If you have all five guys engaged and involved in the play, all of a sudden for the other team that's defending, You sort of have to account for that, especially as guys are just, you know, entering open space. Like, you sort of need to react accordingly. And that can lead to all sorts of kind of miscommunications and defensive breakdowns and mistakes, as opposed to if you just have your two defensemen on their respective points, just waiting to get the puck back to them so they can fire it into traffic.

It's like that is a much more desirable alternative if I'm the other team just because I know exactly where the fuck's going and what I need to do and where I need to be. Whereas in this case, it's it's so unpredictable, like, especially. with the spin moves and the crossovers and how willing these guys are to put the puck out there and try to make some moves to make the defenders miss. It really does feel like they're playing a different sport and it's like next level hockey and I've been blown away by it. I'm not sure how replica what it is, but I hope to see more of it.

Yeah, I don't think any defenseman can kind of do that. But I do think that when you've got kind of mobile defensemen, like P.K. Suban's shown that he can do that. I think Morgan Riley can do that. Definitely Eric Carlson can do that. You know who's the best? But it's pretty few and far between. So.

Like one of my candidates to be amazing at this is Mikhail Sergachev. His crossover where he has it at the point and he looks like he's going one way. And then he kind of just brings the puck over and tempts the fenced the fencedman to reach out for it. And he got caught leaning a little bit. And then he takes advantage of that. And then being off balance and blowing by them, like he is one of the best of that. Yeah. He's very good at catching.

catching guys off balance. And so when you have defensemen that can do that, that's sort of what is tantalizing because you can develop it. But unless you inherently have good skating ability, it's very difficult to get to the level that the guys that we just talked about are at. And so I think when you're looking towards the future of a modern day defenseman, the ability to sort of get up in the play and use your body. and the crossovers and maybe bait defensemen and get involved in the play is going to be something that scouts look for because you have to I think that hockey is eventually going to go the way of like a five-man unit for offense as opposed to just like three forwards and two D and they all stay stagnant because I mean it's becoming kind of boring and teams have learned how to defend it so there's got to be another adjustment and that's potentially it where your D are active and it's not about the big booming one timer anymore. It's more about kind of creation and moving around.

Not to mention the fact that if your D are constantly active, it forces the defending players to really be on their toes all the time. And mental mistakes happen and that's when the physical mistakes happen, which lead to goals. So the more tired you can get the defenders in skating around and having to consistently look here, there, and everywhere, the more likely you are to get them to make a mistake. Well, it's a testament to this Aves team and sort of speaks to how exciting we find them that,

I think in any other instance, like any other opponent, we would be spending all this time talking and raving about the sharks because they do so many things so well and they have so many big notable players that can create offensively, certainly themselves, but it feels like they're being overshadowed a little bit from a talking points perspective by this Aves team, even though they are up right now in the series 2-1 and look good themselves. And, you know, just in terms of I was mentioning how they've done an admirable job of defending McKinnon and limiting his chances, he's been basically just getting a heavy, heavy dose of

Vlasic and Burns, whatever, he's out there and Kuture's line. And, you know, Kachar's quickly, I mean, he has the hat trick. He's quickly becoming sort of known as this playoff performer that elevates his game this time of year. And I think the one big takeaway from the Sharks for me watching this series, above all else, is I remember when you and I were talking last, the Sharks. sharks were down in their series to Vegas and we were discussing their defensive breakdowns and we were talking about how Eric Carlson's ice time was all over the place and how he wasn't looking

like himself and how he was looking like he was still hurt and as this series has progressed I think physically he has looked a lot closer to sort of that peak for him where he can really just impact the game in so many different ways and you know the puck movement is one thing but I think the ultimate litmus test for me watching him to determine how healthy he is is when guys are trying to enter the zone offensively against him with zone entries. His ability to, like if a guy's coming at him down his wing and then tries to cross over to the middle of the ice and take it to the other direction, his ability to sort of just latch onto that guy and hound him and ride him up until he makes a mistake and he can turn it over

is right up there with anyone in the league and he's been doing a lot more of that in this series. Yeah, I've noticed that too. And I mean, we don't have to get into whether San Jose should even be in the second round or not based on what happened in game seven. But I think that Carlson's definitely gotten better as the series has progressed. And for my money, he is, other than maybe Jacob Slavin, one of the best defensemen in terms of cutting players off who do come in and try and cut across the ice, because he's just his skating

ability and his stick on puck. It makes it very difficult for players to get. a scoring chance, let alone a good one, against him when he's kind of at his full strength. But when he's not, you can see that he has issues turning, and that's when sort of he gets exposed. But now that you've sort of seen he's come around a little bit, not only is he playing well offensively, but defensively, he's become much more stable. I mean, I still say that Mark Edward Vlasic is the best defensive defenseman on that. team in terms of shutting players down and that's probably why he's out there against Nathan

McKinnon all the time because I think quite honestly you could have Vlasic and Carlson or Vlasic and you'd be fine but the key point there is you need Mark Edward Vlasic just because of what he provides it's like a stabilizing presence but he can also move the puck very well and forces guys to the outside so from that perspective I think San Jose's whole from on their decor have improved in this series and they have had to because I mean their power play has been pretty dreadful and they their D was also pretty dreadful in the Vegas series and I think that they got a little bit lucky so it's it's good to see that they've sort of kind of come around because I mean I think you and I can both agree that

had they not come around McKinnon's line would have eaten them alive in the series and that was one of my big questions heading into it it was like we saw how much offense Colorado was able to generate just using that speed advantage against Calgary and the sharks have done a great job of neutralizing that and I think Carlson's health and I think also Vlasic coming back in the lineup and looking much more like himself than he did from large stretches this season goes a long way and you know I remember like in the past because the sharks and Pete DeBore would use Vlasic and Braun as their shutdown pairing for years and Vlasic was so good at defending the zone that I feel like other teams intentionally would go out of their way to try and enter the offensive zone on Braun's side just to stay away from

Vlasic and sort of his just his stick and how much disruption he could create with it and so Braun would get feasted on quite a bit and it was unfair to him and then now when you have Burns out there who's also a very aggressive guy in terms of trying to disrupt stuff with a stick and using his skating to get into offensive players sort of area to operate it's become more. much more difficult to enter the offensive zone against his team, and that goes a long way towards slowing down the abs in the neutral zone. And so kudos to them for sort of those adjustments and getting healthy at the right time and taking advantage of some fortunate breaks in round one and being in this position now.

Let's talk quickly about Adam Fox, because I think it's a natural segue. We've been talking a lot here about defense men, and we were talking about young guys like McCar and Gerard. And I know you wanted to get into a little bit here because obviously he just, he just forced his hand to the New York Rangers and we can take this any number of ways we can talk about, you know, defensemen, we can talk about college free agents,

we can talk about Adam Fox himself, we can talk about the Rangers. I mean, where do you want to start this discussion? I would say that Carolina got pretty good value for the fact that they knew that Adam Fox was going to be a ranger. It was no secret that Adam Fox wanted to be a ranger. And it's kind of this loophole.

that I'm not really a fan of in terms of if you draft a player that is going to college, if he decides I don't really want to play for your team. I can just go to school for four years and then I'm a UFA. I mean, I'm not really a big fan of that. But Carolina getting what they did and potentially being another second round pick if Fox, I think it's 40 games or maybe it's 60 if he plays next year for the Rangers. I think that's pretty good value. And of course, I mean, the Rangers are getting.

a terrific defenseman. He was over a point of game, and that hasn't happened in a while in the NCAA. And so I think that that's going to be big for adding to their blue line that's already got pretty Shea on it, not to mention that they're going to add one of Jack User Capo caco, and that's another terrific ad. So I think that the Rangers are going to be significantly improved next year, and they've made it known that they're going to be active as well. So it'll be interesting to see how many games Fox plays, because the NCAA is obviously, a bit of a different animal than the NHL. And we've seen McCar come in and do a great job.

But I don't think that Adam Fox is quite the defenseman that Kail McCar is. But I do think that he brings a dimension that the Rangers don't have. You're saying you're not a fan of that loophole from like a team perspective, right? Because you see a lot of like people going like, oh, like the audacity of this player. He hasn't even played in the league and he's already got this ego and thinks he can do this. And it's like, well, like players have. so few instances where they have the leverage and they have the ability to control their own fate and whenever a player has it and he decides to use it to his advantage, I'm all for it because

I know certainly that as soon as the team gets their hands on them and has the leverage, they will not think twice about taking advantage of any loopholes they can. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think you look down the road in New York and they've got the general manager who is the king of taking advantage of loopholes and he's very, very good at it. And so, I mean, for me, I think if the team spends as much money as they do trying to develop you and they invest in you and they're checking in on you, it's not great when you say, nope, too bad. I won't even consider. I'm not even taking the meeting type of thing.

That's not a great look. If you honestly don't believe that you have a chance to play in that lineup, then obviously exercise your options. But I think if the team is really investing in you and you're just not interested. did. It's not the best look, but I can understand why he does it because now he's going to be under team control for the next little while. And so the Rangers can sort of do what they want with them. I think players should never be expected to, you know, sacrifice for the team from that perspective because I know, like, I'm just like at Connor McDavid taking a team discount and then how the Oilers have repaid him with how they use those financial savings to build a contender around him. And so

I think, you know, as someone who has questioned the draft system as a whole and how silly it is that you're telling 18-year-olds to go play for whatever, seven, eight years, the fact that a player has this rare instance where he can choose where he wants to go play, I'm all for it. And, you know, I'm typically, I think we do this kind of annual dance where we get super excited about college free agents. And then for the most part, they wind up disappointing. and you sort of realize like, oh, maybe this guy who was 2021 and putting up big numbers in a completely different environment, all of a sudden is it as nearly as impactful as we thought they'd be when it come to this level. I think Fox is going to be good. And I think we shouldn't compare them to McCar, but I think just in terms of the Rangers

adding an asset like this for what they had to pay, even though it is a good deal from Carolina's perspective just based on how little leverage they had and how sort of sure a thing it was that he was going to go. I think from the Rangers perspective here, the ability to add a guy like Fox without giving up any super premium assets is huge, especially considering that they put themselves in this position where they have had, if you go last year, this year, next year, they have 30 draft picks and that's banned. And so for them to be like, okay, yeah, we can give up two more to make this a sure thing. We don't want to mess around for another year and whatever may happen, whether Fox changes his mind or whether someone else swoops in or we just want to add him to the lineup because

we think we're going to be kind of frisky next year. Like I'm all for the Rangers aggressively going out and getting their guy as opposed to sitting back and tempting fate. Yeah, more of that. Like we saw what Kekelinan did at the deadline. I'm like, yes, okay, more of that, please, because it makes it more entertaining. And when you think of who the Rangers have come into the pipeline, they've got Neal's Lundquist also coming through, I think he's going to be a good defenseman.

I think Fox is probably a top four defenseman on their team. They've already got Brady Shea. then you look up front and they've got the guys like first of all you've got zabanajad who is amazing um and then you've got edel and lea sanderson and and vatley craftstoff who is coming over as well i think that the rangers really trying to build the young core and then you have the vets like zabana jad who are going to sort of guide them this was great timing for the rangers and i agree with you kudos to them for saying no we want this guy and so what if we have to pay a pick or two to get the guy, but we want him here and we want him in our development

system. We want him in our lineup so that he can sort of get used to the Ranger way. Well, in terms of them, I mean, they've executed. Obviously, he will see, like, these guys need to be developed properly and pan out. And there's still a couple more hoops to jump through before it's a sure thing. But just from kind of these early stages of this rebuild perspective, they basically play this masterfully. And I think that's what any fan of any team that is wanting their team to just have like a coherent plan and execute it hopes for and just the fact that they've accumulated this many intriguing assets in like what a year and a half of this rebuild uh speaks to the plan and their commitment to it and i think a bunch of other teams out there could benefit greatly from

uh copying that and stealing from that a little bit because it's it's been it's been fun to watch and i can't wait to watch them next year i don't know how good they're going to be necessarily but just in terms of the young talent that's in place and coming over I imagine they're going to be pretty high up my watchability rankings next fall. Yeah, well, anytime like a team sort of has a bunch of young talent, there's so much fun to watch just because there are mistakes that happen. And kids want to take chances. They want to have fun.

That's the way the game is going where all these young players are, they take chances, and that's sort of what creates the track meet, and that's what makes it fun. And so, I mean, if all of these young players end up, playing in the Rangers lineup next year it's it's going to be a lot of fun to watch and and just I just remember they also have Keondre Miller in their system and he's not coming out of school yet but I think he's got a chance to be a really really good defenseman as well and so when you have like this kind of prospect pool that you're starting to inject in your

lineup I think like Edel and Anderson will be in there consistently next year these players start to come along and they start to develop and that's what makes you entertaining because let's face it i mean i think you and i both agree that the most entertaining teams are the teams with the high-end skill right we don't watch the oilers because we have high-end skill we watch the oilers because they have 90s we don't watch right and we watch um uh no we we don't we definitely don't but um we and we watch the abs now because look at all the skill in their lineup and look at the style they play i think the rangers are sort of going to be playing that style where it's it's speed and its skill and that is going to be it's going to be

hell for every team in the metro to deal with at some point because i mean when you're looking at a top six that features some of the best young players in the game that's that's terrorizing and definitely terrifying and i mean you mentioned they're going to add caco or hughes they're also potentially going to have two more first round picks to go along with that and they're probably going to get players there later in the draft that uh you know won't be stepping into the lineup and factoring into decisions next year, but it's just in terms of that asset accumulation process and names to get excited about Rangers fans should be pretty happy. Rachel, I wanted to get into Blue Jackets Bruins and we teased it a little bit when we're like,

oh, we're going to talk about Marshawn, but honestly, we should just save it for another time and we're over an hour already. And I feel like once we get into this, it can open a whole can of worms and we'd probably spend another 20 minutes on it. Oh, we could definitely. My mentions are literally littered with Bruins fans who just want to yell and scream at me. So maybe I'll just save Marshand for another day.

Except if not to say that punching dudes in the back of the head is not a good idea whether you're a Brad Marshall or not. John Shannon had a tweet about, when he was talking about how the NHL wouldn't be providing any supplemental discipline and then he just like casually tossed in a line about like the team

feels confident that it can rein him in after last year's licking episode and I was like, oh my God, just do you read this tweet that you just wrote out? Just the fact that you're stringing this series of words together and the fact that we just kind of gloss over it. Multiple times.

On multiple teams. Yeah, not even once. Yeah, pretty wild stuff. Yeah. Anyways, we can talk more about the Blue Jackets. And next time I have you on, who knows, maybe they'll have advanced and we can dive into them. But I'm glad we finally, we got to do this again.

I was going to say we finally got to do it. But we've been chatting quite a bit here the past couple weeks. Yeah, it's been great. and I mean, the more entertaining playoff hockey there is, the more there is to talk about. And I mean, God bless Brad Marshall, because if they make the conference finals, you know that there's going to be a story surrounding him. So hopefully next time we talk, there's more entertaining storylines, whether it involves licking people or not. There certainly will be. Then each other playoffs, never disappoint. Plug your podcast. Where can people check out the fine work you and Ian do?

So Ian and I, we are hosts of the Staff and Graph podcast. new episode actually just went up Thursday morning and we talked about the value of scoring chances and nationality biases in the in the NHL and why maybe there aren't Europeans and is it time for that to change and so you can find that on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, Podbean, Stitchergate

pretty much wherever you get your podcast although it's not on SoundCloud But yeah, that's sort of what I'm doing. And hopefully this continues to go that way. And if you got questions or you want us to chat about something, then you just kind of send us a tweet. And hopefully we'll get it in the podcast. Thanks for taking the time to come chat. And everyone should go listen to your podcast as well.

And I'm sure we'll have you back on sometime here down the road. Thanks, Demetri. This was great. Cheers. Before we get out of here and end today's show, I did want to give a couple words. to Jason Bottsford in his memory. For those that have been following along on Twitter, you probably saw on Wednesday morning that he passed away and left us too early

at the young age of 48. You know, he did some great work covering the Knuck Knucks here locally for the province for many years. He created this really innovative and unique brand of recapping games with what he called the provis where he would mix in analysis with your traditional kind of quotes from players and people involved but also you know provide video and gifts and memes and he'd really uh had his finger on the pulse of what was going on in the hockey role then what was going on with the canucks and and

the fan base as a whole and he did a great job of blending all those things together and providing um kind of unique coverage than no one else is really doing like i've talked on this show countless times about how difficult being a beatwriter for a single team can be because you have this very fine line of you know you don't want to provide a sort of kind of cookie cutter just soft analysis where you're clearly being a homer and favoring the team but at the same time if you get too critical you're going to get the door closed on you people aren't going to want to provide you with access anymore and it's going to be awkward when you're bumping into the same people over and over again after having criticized a trade by the GM or a certain play by a player on a given night.

And so he, I think, did a masterful job as good as anyone out there of kind of playing both sides where he really didn't mince his words and he really didn't hold back. But it felt like he was fair and just and he was getting access than no one else was getting. And so I always admired him for that. and then he took his coverage over to the athletic and he did the similar thing and it was really must must read on a nightly basis and that's a remarkable thing to say because he was covering a Vancouver Canucks team over the past couple years that before Elias peterson came along was there was really no reason to be tuning into them or following them on a nightly basis but even if you hadn't

watched the game on that night you would be going and reading his work just to see what he had to say because it was just that good and that unique from anything else you'd find out there. So from a professional perspective and from his work as a journalist, I think it speaks for itself. But I think on a more personal level, and I was lucky enough to know Botch fairly well and across pass of them many times over the years, he really was a special person from how he treated everyone and how receptive he was to ideas and criticism and feedback, despite the fact that he had this high stature where, you know, he was already cemented and ingrained as one of the top people covering the team in this market and didn't necessarily have any reason that he needed to be interacting with bloggers, especially in the early days and going back and forth with fans on a daily basis and interacting with everyone. but he really treated everyone as an equal. And I think that's a big reason why you saw such an emotional outpouring since the news broke on Twitter where everyone was sort of sharing their personal stories with him and expressing their grief and how much he'd be missed.

And, you know, I'll share a quick story that I already put out there on Twitter, but I'll share it again here for the people that hadn't checked it out. my first time crossing paths with botch was back in 2011 i believe i just started uh getting into this industry i had i don't know 10 15 followers on twitter at the time um and i had this blog and this podcast called so you're an expert and no one listened to it at the time other than my mom and i would still would be cranking out shows uh with one of my best friends and we would just record as much as we could just to kind of get our reps and try to maybe make a career of this. And I remember we were huge fans of Bodchford at the time and really admired the way he covered the Canucks growing up.

And so we reached out to one time and, you know, just took a home run swing. We were like, hey, Botch, if you'd want to come on and chat with us for a bit, we'd really like it, we can talk about the team and we can, for however long you can give us. And he agreed. And we were just flabbergasted that he would want to come on the show that no one knew about and no one listened about. But that's how giving he was with his time. And so we got him on the line.

And, you know, we're definitely very nervous, but we're also super excited. And so we're trying to try to butter them up by going like, listen, botch, we really appreciate you taking the time. We are only going to be going for like 10, 15 minutes here, not very long. We just want to get you in and out. And we know that you're a busy guy, so we're not going to hold you up for too long. And, you know, in his typical botch tone that only he could really pull off, he goes like, 10 minutes, 10 minutes.

I mean, I don't know if I can give you guys more than an hour, but I can definitely give you more than 10 minutes and it was just something about the way that he would come across when he'd say stuff like that that was just kind of so infectious and inviting it would instantly bring your guard down and make you feel like you were his best friend and we chatted for i forget how long but it was a great conversation and it was kind of a sort of a building block or a pillar moment for me professionally where i really uh was proud of that and used it as a stepping stone to get where I am now. So, you know, he went throughout the years, whether I was still blogging at Canucks Army or whether I was a sports net or even now with Yahoo and ESPN. He had an

open door policy. He'd always be there if I needed some advice professionally or personally or what have you. And he was never afraid to tell you what he really felt. And even if you sometimes disagreed with him or you were kind of taken aback by his brutal honesty you knew it was coming from a good place and it was very sincere and I guess I just I just really appreciated that because it was very unique especially in this industry now where it's so competitive it can be so cut throw it can be so lonely at times because everyone is kind of fighting for themselves and there's so many different voices out there that people are very protective and people aren't very inviting and welcoming at times because you kind of want to make sure that if you're

already at a successful place, you want to stay there. And if you're working your way up, you're trying to dethrone those people and get a piece of the pie for yourself. And so, you know, battle lines can really be drawn and botched did wonders for changing that and changing that landscape where he gave a platform and he helped provide a larger profile for, aspiring young writers and aspiring young podcasters. And that was great. And hopefully, you know, we'll see more of that from other people moving forward. And I'd love to personally try to learn from that and help as many people as I can out there

with whether it's advice or, you know, with work or what have you. So anyways, I just wanted to quickly give a little love to botch. he's going to be sincerely missed. I really, really feel, and my heart aches and all my thoughts and prayers go out to his family that he left behind and all of his closer colleagues that he was working with on a daily basis. And I know that, you know, both people in the media and fans who would consume his work all the time are dearly going to miss him.

And, yeah, so rest in peace, rest in peace, Jason Botchford. And, yeah, a very somber note. end today's show, but I felt like I needed to be said because he certainly deserved it and warranted it with his actions in the way he was for all those years. So with that said, we're going to sign out of here and we will be back hopefully early next week with some more playoff analysis. The Hockey P.D.Ocast with Dim Filippovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey pdocast.