The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 298: Hockey in June

Episode Date: June 11, 2019

Justin Bourne joins the show to discuss the Stanley Cup Final, how we got to this winner take all Game 7, and what to watch for in the final game of the season. 2:30 The Blues forecheck, cycle, and O-Zone pressure10:50 Uncharacteristic struggles of Bruins top line14:00 Colton Parayko’s rise to superstardom22:30 Alex Pietrangelo thriving under different usage27:00 Ryan O’Reilly’s defensive wizardry37:50 Tuukka Rask’s Hall of Fame resume43:20 Game 7 X-factors, potential big winners, and picksSee acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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joining me as my good buddy Justin Boran. Justin, what's going on, man? Well, you know, not a whole lot. Just basking in the misery of a Toronto Rafters lost here, but surviving, having a cup of coffee, the sun came up to the typical day. Yeah, yeah. No, it was quite a game, and we're going to, you and I talked a bit before we went on the air about it, and we're going to stick to hockey on today's podcast because there is so much to get to. I haven't recorded in a while, and I'm excited. I mean, obviously just the idea of a Stanley Cup final game seven, we haven't had it in so long, and really with all on the line in that one game

the drama and then entertainment storylines kind of speak for themselves but I do think it's fitting that the series is going seven because maybe the individual games haven't been all as close as we'd like but I think by my count it feels like the Bruins have been the better team three times and the blues have been the better team

the other three times so it feels like it is kind of fair that we're going to be deciding this in a winner take all it does at the same time I get the vibe back in 2011 and the Canucks beat the Bruins or sorry, the Canucks lost of the Bruins. When they would win their games, they would win like 1-0-0-0. I believe they were multiple

you're probably there. I think they won 1-0 twice, maybe 2-1. It was always like they escaped by the skin of their teeth and then when Boston won, it was like, oh, right, like that was supposed to happen is 8-1 Boston, whatever the scores were, they were very lopsided in Boston's favor. But at the time game 7 rolled around,

it kind of felt like Boston should win the series, even though I was pulling for the Canucks there being a BC boy, but you know, sitting where I sit now, it kind of feels like that in this series. When Boston wins, they win by a few, it feels like they should. When St. Louis wins, it feels like they're just squeaking by. So yes, I would say 3-3 is a pretty fair score of a situation right now, but it certainly feels to me like Boston is a team that should and probably will win

the series. But it's weird because just from a stylistic perspective, and we can get into why this is, and I know you've written about a little bit as well, and it's kind of come up to anyone that's been watching, but just when the blues do get going, it's weird because the Bruins usually do this to other teams, and we've seen them do it to them throughout this postseason when they're really playing their game, especially at 5-on-5, there's this kind of like avalanche effect where they just keep the puck in the offensive zone, and all of a sudden there's a flurry of shots and you feel like a goal is inevitable. With the blues, it seems like they've kind of turned it on them where

they get that offensive zone cycle going and they get the puck moving in the offensive zone, and all of a sudden it looks like the Bruins are just running around and looking like the inferior team and so when you watch the blues and they are playing at their absolute best, they look like they're the best team you've ever watched. Yeah, no, you're 100% right. And for me, you know, I love, you know, one of my favorite situations to watch in hockey is five-on-five offensive zone play and to see what teams can create off that. And the blues are really good at, you know, for lack of technical terminology, what I used

to call it, the Marquise was having it. Some players are just good at having it. Some teams are good at just having it. They have the puck for a long time, you know, it wears down their opponent, it tires out their legs. You know, there's great benefits to having it. But they don't seem to have those guys that, you know, score those quick strike plays, those that seem to come out of nowhere, that exciting creation play. They've had some success, you know, generating goals off those extended cycles in this series. But, you know, the three best offensive players in the series, you can argue might be all in the Marchand line, you know, depending how you feel about O'Reilly and Ter thing.

but still so those those yes those bluen possessions are fantastic um and they are certainly good in doing damage to the bruin's but i i just feel like they don't quite have the guys to turn those into goals quite often enough or at least they haven't often enough in this series yeah i think that's fair i mean it just has been surprising i do i want to get your take kind of from a tactical perspective about how the blues are pulling that off in terms of that sort of not necessarily even the prototypical or traditional forecheck that we think of, but sort of just when they dump the puck in and then how they're so good at retrieving the puck more often than not, it feels like, I don't know, like is it, it seems to me just from watching it that it's a lot

of, they're activating their defenseman a lot and getting really aggressive in terms of the pinches and getting them involved in it as well and causing turnovers from the Bruins defensemen and obviously not having Matt Grisleck hurts the Bruins quite a bit there in terms of having a guy who can go back, retrieve it, and exit the puck cleanly. But how are they, like, pulling that off? And is it more of a personnel thing? Or do you think it's more of a tactical thing where Craig Brubay has come in and tapped into something that's made them so effective?

Well, I think, you know, when you coach your roster, you basically look at what you have and you assess, you know, how do I get the most out of this? How do I make this group the toughest group to possibly beat? And whether Brubi has done that or just his style happens to mesh well with the personnel they do have, it's impossible to. say, but for whatever reason, his style and the blues style is perfect for one another. It's just that physical, go get it.

You know, we can't control everything necessarily, but we can control our effort. And the blues on the forecheck, you know, you can see the Bruins scrambling to get back on pucks because they know once they get out of the zone, once they even get it past the first forechecker, they've usually been pretty effective at doing something decent with it and moving to play the other way. It's just the blues have been so good to get it. getting in on them. And, you know, they have a lot of those guys, you know, not even necessarily the big guys, even the guys like David Perron who aren't big and, you know,

Jayden Schwartz isn't big, but some of these guys that still manage to get in there and get on the forecheck and be annoying, really compliment the guys who are bigger, you know, a guy like Sanford who gets in there and lays the body. So Barberchav and Sunfist and they just happen to have the right personnel with the right mindset, I think, for that style of play. And so for the Bruins, it's pretty black and white, you know. You go back on that puck and have your first touch be quality. your team's probably going to be doing pretty good. If you turn it over after that first touch, good luck.

You spend on the next 45 in your own zone. Yeah, I mean, the point hockey tweeted this out the other day, but the slot shots in this series of 515 are 82, 68 for St. Louis, and the offensive zone possessions 33 minutes for St. Louis and 22 for Boston. And that kind of shows that how effective that sort of cycle and that offensive zone pressure has been for them. And obviously, it's, you know, as we look ahead to game 7 and try to figure out how this is going to go and who's going to

win and what the sort of X factors are going to be. I mean, it's typically going to come down to, you know, whichever goal he plays better or a couple of bounces here or there. But I have noticed that as this series has gone along, and maybe this is just kind of a random thing, maybe it is because it's ridiculous that we're playing games this late into June, and it's getting hot and humid and the ice conditions aren't as good as they were once. But the puck has been bouncing quite a bit, and it's been all over the place.

And I do wonder whether a more kind of volume-based approach where you're just keeping the puck down low and getting it on net as much as possible might be the advantageous way to go compared to trying to thread the needle and make one skill, precise play to win the game. Yeah, you're right, you're right, absolutely agree. I would say that at this time of year, when you're the more skilled, more talented team,

you want everything to go in your favor. You know, that favors true talent dictating the outcome, right? You'd like nice, cold, hard, fast ice, everything nice and smooth. You know, you'd like no weird bounces. You want that puck frozen, right? you know, every opportunity you have for things to go as you intend them to go, it would be ideal.

This series, you're right. That ice has been bad. The blues are probably more volume-based approach. So certainly, you know, I would say if luck is going to rear its ugly head in game seven, if anything, that probably plays in the blues favor. Well, you know what? It's such human nature, no matter how well it's going and how good the hockey is, we have to find something to latch onto and complain about it.

And at this point, you know, there's nothing really new to say about the officiating. I think it's just been uniformly bad and inconsistent, and both teams have reasons to gripe about it. But I think for me, the new fascination is just like how ridiculous it is that the season is stretching this long. And I know there's still basketball going on as well, but it feels like the fact that we're going to be having an important hockey game on June 12th. Like, listen, I love watching hockey.

I love that this is going to game seven. I love all that. But it just seems like, I don't know. This is going on forever. Like you and I are obviously still very tuned in and interested, but don't do you feel like based on fan interaction? and maybe people kind of like checking out a little bit and doing other stuff, it feels like it's probably not the best way to market your sport

on like the most important game of the season. But it's the stupidest thing too, because like, you know, for me, September is the turning point on the calendar. Like summer's not over. You still get to reap the benefits of some decent weather. But things are turning. Kids are going back to school. NFL football starting to come back.

Like it's, you know, you're starting to get to wear scars. Oh, everyone looks good in a scarf and a mock turtleneck even for you. if you're feeling weird. You know, it's that time of year. Everything turns, and that's when it should start. It would be the perfect time of the year to get things going September. I'm ready to get back in the rinks. I've missed it.

I've had my fun at the lake. You know, I've been on the golf courses and I'm ready for hockey. So the fact that we don't trip the puck on the season until October 8th, I think it is, most years, somewhere in that ballpark. It's ridiculous. We don't need a month of preseason. You know, you're totally right that the fact that we're talking hockey here in June 12th, you know, there's no reason to try to have the season run concurrently with the NBA,

if anything, staggering it from the NBA would be more advantageous. So, yeah, this seems a little late in the season to be, late in the year to be talking hockey. Well, and it feels like the players' bodies are certainly feeling it too. Like, I guess you could make the argument that may be a little additional rest here and there with an extra added day off between games four, five, six, and seven or whatever is doing them well. But at the same time, like, people are always wondering right now, like, what's going on with Patrice Bergeron? Why isn't the Bruins top line producing? It's like, I guarantee when this series is over,

we're going to hear that Bergeron was playing at like 40% functional capacity and had like four surgeries and his limbs are barely hanging on to his body at this point. Like it's ridiculous. Last time they won the cut, they were like, yeah, he had a punctured lung actually. It was like a punctured lung. You can play with that?

I know. It's so obscene. And I don't know, but it is good. I mean, for the Bruins, obviously the fact that it does come down to this one game and that they have, I mean, I think their first 5-1-5 goal created by that top line was Pastor Nax's goal that made it 4-1 in game 6, and Bergeron wasn't even on the ice for that. And when you see a stat, like Bergeron's line's been outscored 5-0 so far in this series, you'd be like, oh, my God, there's no way that they could have won three games so far.

And I guess considering that they have had their chances and they have been generating stuff, it feels like eventually they're going to break through. It might not come in time. Maybe they don't break through in game seven, and they lamented all. summer, but it does feel like there's something percolating here where they could break through and score a couple big goals in Game 7. Yeah, and this is, you know, I kind of wrote about that a little bit today. I alluded to golf when talked about the Masters and how they're playing in tournaments

where this random tournaments in like February where a no-name player kind of pokes their head in them a Sunday and they managed to win a tournament. It's a nice surprise and all that. On Sundays, you don't tend to see those guys survive. They wilt, they fade, they can't hang up to press. pressure in the big boys in the moment. To me, the Boston Bruins are the big boys. They've been there.

They're five players who won the Stanley Cup in 2011. They're five players who are their most important players beyond a shadow of a doubt. So to me, their core is still those guys. The Blues haven't been in this situation. They haven't had to answer to the moment or anything to that effect. So when it comes down to Game 7 in Boston, spotlight on, you know, I'm not saying the blues are going to wilt. I expect the Bruins, those guys, they have to show up at some point. They're too good to go through this series, which is just sort of a whimper,

and that's really all we've seen from them. So that would be focused, number one, if I'm the St. Louis Blues. We've got to keep them quiet for one more night, and we'll take our chances with the rest of the team. Well, the other thing is, you know, we focus and latch on to their offensive production, and obviously they drive so much of that for the Bruins throughout the year, but I think it's no coincidence that this is happening while they're basically being tasked with going out against

Terrace and going towards as much as possible. And clearly the Bruins have identified that as a big sort of sticking point for them where they have to make sure to limit what those guys are doing on the other end of the ice. So there is that kind of fascinating matchup in your play as well where it's like I'm sure that sometimes the defensive responsibility is coming into it a little

bit as well. And I'm not making any excuses for them because we've seen them time and time again play against the other team's best lines and still generate their five on five offense. But I'm sure that's having a little bit to do with it as well. Yeah, I just think you look at every team in the playoffs or, you know, every team that had to play, maybe Carolina is a bit of an exception, but there's always a great line on the other team. At this time

of the season, there's always a great line. And certainly, you know, they, they would have some defensive responsibility in that regard. But I don't think that top line will lose any better than anything else they've had to see throughout their career. So that's not to say that they're not doing a good job or not, you know, facing a tough matchup and being handed tough assignment. But as you mentioned. That's something they're familiar with. And I think we're within our rights, given their stature, their salaries and the rest to expect them to do better than

they've done thus far. Well, here's the thing. I thought that after game six, my like hot take or thing I was going to really latch on these next couple days was going to be, I think Duke O'Ras should be the cons might, regardless of if the Bruins win or lose in game seven. And obviously that's dependent on him not getting blown up

and giving up six goals in game seven or something like that. But I do think he's probably been objectively the most valuable or most dominant, consistent players throughout this postseason. But my next one is, if the Blues do win, because we so rarely see a team from the, a player from the losing team win it, I think Colton Pereko has actually been the Blues most valuable player. What do you think about that?

I think it's great. I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to bring up. I get frustrated because, you know, you see some of the biggest names in hockey, put, like, Twitter polls out there or write articles, and they're saying, you know, Who's going to be? Is it Rask or Bennington or O'Reilly or, you know, it's kind of where it ends for the most part, the conversation. I've seen Jaden Schwartz's name get brought up, which before the series is reasonable, but at this point to be, isn't. And, yeah, for me, if St. Louis does win, it's maybe Bennington, if O'Reilly has a big night, you could talk me into O'Reilly.

But does any of this happen with so cold Pereco? Like, Jay Bowleyster's been headed the toughest minutes of maybe any defenseman in the NHL playoffs, and the only reason he hasn't gotten eaten alive like a frozen corpse on the, you know, like in a crass of airplane or something, is because Peraco has dragged him through. This guy gets not nearly enough love, and he's the ultimate testament to the fact that we really love goals and assists and goaltenders and all that more than we should because I don't think the Blues have a prayer of doing what they've done without Paraco. He might honestly be the perfect player. Like if you went into a lab and constructed a defenseman, I think it will be a person.

would have his attributes. What's so crazy is there, like a year ago, I don't remember the date, but Tyler Della wrote something for the athletic to the effect of that the Toronto Maple Leafs should offer sheet Colton Pereko. And, you know, it comes off as one of those things that you read and you're like, oh, yeah, that's a neat idea. But in retrospect, it's like, no, that should have happened regardless of the cost, given their needs.

You know, the fact that the league just lets guys like him go to RFA, sign new deals, and move on without any sort of, you know, flinching. at or making a push for him. It's ridiculous. You're right. He's, he's damn here a perfect defenseman. And everyone was like, yeah, yeah, you guys just sign him cheap. That's fine. Well, it's like the size and the reach and the mobility are obviously awesome and great attributes. And if that was alone, what he brought to the table, you'd be like, oh, you have Brandon Carle. That's a really good valuable player. And then it all of a sudden has like a massive shot, actual, like, creativity and, and just sort of like this kind of offensive hockey sense

where he jumps into the play when he needs to. And I feel like maybe if we were in a different situation playing for a team that was a bit more lenient in terms of their structure and maybe he was willing to trade chances they go back and forth a bit more. He could probably even put up bigger offensive numbers and really be more on the mainstream or forefront of the top two-way defensemen in the league. But yeah, what he does is just so good. So sorry to interrupt, I'm just going to say, but if you asked GMs around the league, if you could have Pareko or Carlo, who do you want?

A big number of them, say Brandon Carlo, because one thing Farreco does, is he doesn't hit. He doesn't play physical with that big body. He uses his big body defensively and to get body position and to do all sorts of amazing things. But the quote unquote hockey man love the physical play. And for his size, like Victor Headman, he's not a physical player. Yeah, but here's the thing. He's like he's yeah, he definitely doesn't use his body that way. And I think people probably watch that and leave a bit disappointed because they're just like, oh, he could be doing so much more with that frame. But we talk about why are on marshan and pastor knack have struggled at 5-1-5 and how they haven't scored yet and it's like

they're seeing a lot of bohmeester and parakeko and just watching and i know throughout the year like when pastor knack is coming down the wing or marchand's coming down the wing there's the best in the league carrying it in with possession and then creating something off the rush and just watching them like either completely avoid parakego's side of the ice or kind of they get these like footsteps sort of that they're hearing kind of like uh with a great uh shot blocker in the NBA where it's like he might not even block the shot or he might not get a stick on it, but you're getting rid of it a second or a fraction of a second earlier than you would ideally like to just because you have that in the back of your mind

that he could probably get to it. And so you're kind of panicking. And watching that and you're playing that kind of cat and mouse game has been really fun to watch in this series. And so, yeah, you're right. And the physicality, I mean, people view that as a negative. He's drawn more penalties at 5-1-5 this postseason that he's taken, which considering the fact that he's playing against other teams' best players

is one of my favorite stats. and his D partner, Beaumaster, is just a complete opposite. He's taking the most minor penalties of any St. Louis Blue and drawn zero. So in the same matchups, you can tell who's hanging on for Deer Life and the other person who's not having any trouble, threading water. So, yeah, he's certainly a special player. You're right, it's kind of the Joe L&B theory of defense in the NBA where people are like, I'm just not going to go to that part of the court

because that's where he is. and Pareco is that for the blues. The tough thing is a forward in hockey. You're never exactly sure if the G have switched, who's coming to get you in the corner, you know, who's where on the ice. Of course, if you get your head up and check, you will, but you don't always know.

So when you're out there against that pair, you have to assume you're against the better defender. So Bowmeister, in that regard, he gets the benefit of the doubt of guys rushing some plays, thinking it might be Pareko. You know, it's just kind of another way where Pereco's numbers wouldn't have as much of an effect to show how positive he's helped Boomsder,

but it's certainly pretty evident to watch. Absolutely. Justin, let's take a quick break here to hear from a sponsor, and then we're going to keep going on the other things. Sponsoring today's episode of the Hockey P.D.O.cast is Seek. Everyone can obviously agree that going to the event is the fun part of the process, but the act of actually getting there and procuring your tickets shouldn't be as complicated as it's been in the past.

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you know, you kind of brought up this idea of sort of the quality of teammate, right, or the effect that of who you play with affects your underlying numbers. And that kind of ties into the other end of the coin, which is the quality of competition or who you're playing against. And I know that's been a hotly debated topic over the years in hockey Twitter and in terms of our analysis. And I bring that up because of a guy like Alex Petrangelo, where I felt like there was this kind of mismatch over the years

in terms of how sometimes people would talk about him, he'd always be in a hockey Canada. People would always talk about him for the Norris and as one of the top players. And then you'd actually look at his underlying numbers and you'd go like, he's not really doing that well. Like he's okay. I think he's fine. Like he certainly passes the eye test when you watch him.

He's very smooth and prolific out there. But there was always something missing there. And, you know, I've been giving this a lot of thought and I was looking at it. And for years, they would rely on him and Jay Beaummeister to just play always against the other team's best players. And I'm sure that had its effect. And I don't think it's any coincidence. now that as Pareko has kind of stepped up and taken that mantle from him and is eating up all those

tough minutes, Preiko is, you know, they're still playing him against that Berger online, but not exclusively. So he's getting minutes against the softer players. He's getting some easier breakouts. He's getting some more offensive zone time. And then all of a sudden, I don't think it's any coincidence that he looks as good as he does. I think that game four he had in St. Louis was probably as flawless a game. I've seen a defenseman playing sometime.

Yeah, actually, you know, I forget when exactly was. I went through their minutes that they had matched up five on five. But I believe it was after the fourth game. And Petrangelo had basically not seen Bergeron. It was like a minute and a half of five-on-five time in that fourth game. And you're right. All the sudden, you're looking at all right. When you're going against another team's third line.

And that's great. That's the best of the guy like Perico. That's why you and I are talking about them is that you free up somebody to do so much more. You make your teammates better in ways that are really not measurable. Um, well, I guess they're miserable, but they're difficult for measure. So, um, that's, that's certainly one, you know, another point for Pareko. But yeah, I'm with you. Pietrangelo, he's a guy whose contract is going to be, you know, he's going to make a lot of money here.

And I'm not sure that he has the type of effect that's, uh, that can back up the dollars and sense he's going to see. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, either. I mean, certainly it seems like a good opportunity for them to eventually cash it. I know that he means a lot that I franchise and has been there for some time and had some great moments for them. But just based on sometimes. the way you hear people talk about them and write articles about them. You're like, are we watching the same player?

Yeah. It's like once your name gets elevated to a certain level, you know, we're not allowed to like look back and reassess how things have gone since. It's like Mark Edward Vlasic or, you know, once you're on Team Canada, the way people talk about you and look at you, it certainly changes. It's something that's never going to go away in professional sports and in life, really.

You make your reputation. people start to think of you a certain way, it's really tough to change their mind after that first impression. It is. It is. Well, that's just like when a guy gets drafted, especially high and like the, especially as a lottery pick, it's like you get a healthy dose of chances bouncing around the league before people finally go, like, you know what, we can't salvage anything from this.

Whereas if you're like an undrafted guy or a guy drafted in the later rounds, you really need to make an impression right out of the gate or you might just never get your chance. God, it's so true. And it's such a painful thing for undrafted players who just sometimes never, you know, really get that shot. Because not to mention, if you are the drafted player, the organization stands to benefit from looking smart. So they put you in situations with easier quality of competition, better quality of your

teammate. You know, you're fighting an uphill, you know, swimming upstream as an undrafted player. So, you know, I don't know how many teams Anthony Duclera can end up playing for by the time this is all said and done. But at some point, you're like, wow, if everyone sees the same thing here, maybe there's not a ton there. So it's just the reality of the draft. versus undrafted life.

Yeah. Well, you know what? I've been thinking, so when we were talking about the cons mites guys, and obviously we have to see how Game 7 plays out, but if the Bruins win, I would be absolutely stunned if anyone other than Rask wins. For the Blues, I mean, we've talked about Preco so far. We can talk about Bennington more here in a second, but I don't know, you think, I feel like Ryan O'Reilly

is kind of building up a resume here, especially with, like, it is a postseason award. It really should be the cumulative effect, but it feels like obviously recency bias, and especially with this. Final, yeah, of course. So the fact that he's really elevated his game here where he's got four goals and seven points in the last five games,

it feels like if he has a big game seven effort and he leads him to victory, I think there's going to be a lot of momentum there just because of how good he's looked at both ends of the ice. Yeah, what I wrote about him this morning, basically, was that if you took one player off this blues roster and asked him to go to this playoff run again, like who hurts him the most?

We've talked about Pareko, he's a good vote. Bittington, obviously, it would hurt, them, but like I could construct a scenario in my head where Jake Allen comes in and two years ago, he was a 935 and 11 playoff games. It's conceivable that that could happen. You know, I can see how the Blues could survive without Ben and Kenneth, you know, Val went on a run. I can't see a situation where they're here without their number one center. Guys put up points in whatever, seven, eight straight games.

I just, I don't know how that hole would be filled, and I think they would be run over and not playing hockey right now. So that is a huge vote for me of a guy. who's probably been the most important to his team on this run or one of the two, three guys anyway. So I certainly expect he'll see him both. And a good game would probably put him over the top. Well, the thing that I love about him and watching him is he makes it easy for us as analysts, because sometimes when it comes to evaluating defensive playoff forwards,

it's so difficult to, like, distinctly point to stuff and be like, oh, I get it. That's what this guy's doing defensively that's driving the numbers or that makes him talked about as a Selky candidate all the time. And with him, what he's been doing in this series in terms of, like, especially on the penalty kill. And I know the, I think Elliot Freeman brought us up on the broadcast and it was a really astute point. But, you know, the Bruins have been given up so many, uh, chances on their power play.

It's the nature of how they play and how they want to trade chances and create off the rush on the power play, which is obviously benefited them greatly. But the drawback is that they give up quite a bit going the other way. And, and O'Reilly's been doing such a good job of kind of sitting around the blue line and using that active stick to create deflections and he's had a couple of odd man rushes or breakaways on the penalty kill himself and and so just like little stuff like that and how active he is in the defensive zone and how he comes back all the time to get the puck and then transition it himself as opposed to relying upon the defenseman like it's that stuff that

makes it so much easier for us to look at and be like yeah that's that's why he's considered to be one of the best two-way forwards in the league yeah i think he's got um he's pure hockey IQ to me You know, he certainly work ethic as well, but he's hockey IQ and that. Like, I don't think he's particularly fast. I don't think his shot's particularly great. He's not, you know, the biggest guy that meanest guy, the anything. He just knows the flow of hockey. And I'm reading an interesting book right now just about how generalists tend to prevail.

And, you know, general versus specialists just in life in general. And it talks about how with specialists, like chess players, like some people think they have these crazy memories, photographic memories for being able to look at a game board and know all the potential moves. The reality is that their memories don't back that up in other areas of life. It's just they're so familiar with the patterns

and the flow of the game and how it moves in general, what the typical patterns are, that they know we can look for what's going to come next. Ryan O'Reilly, to me, is that grandmaster chess player of hockey. He knows how hockey moves, where it's going to go,

what the most likely options are. just always in the right lane, in the right spot. I don't know. He just strikes me as a guy who basically had skates on since when he came out of the womb. He just seems to understand the game so well. He may be one of the smartest players in the league. Yeah, he's really fun

to watch, and it's remarkable to think. And we're going to talk a bit about sort of the big winners, potentially of Game 7, and Doug Armstrong is one, considering what he paid to get him this summer. I understand there was a lot of other stuff involved there as well, and the Sabres didn't want to pay his bonus and all that. But, man, he talked about a player coming,

in and making an immediate impact. If you were the buffalo sabers and you're like, what do we need to get us where we're trying to go? You'd be like, someone like O'Reilly. If only we could get like a number one center like that, we'd be laughing. So it's a little bit sad in that regard. It is.

It is a little bit sad. Yeah, you mentioned Bennington there and sort of how you could envision a scenario where they could replace him with Jake Allen and still have similar results. And obviously, I mean, Jake Allen is, I don't think, a very good goalie, but he has shown in the past and we just know that any goalie can really get hot on a 15 20 minute 20 game run it's been weird we're talking about uh petrangelo and how there's a bit of a mismatch between

how people's always talk about and what we see it's with bittington so like some of the praise he's been getting this postseason i get it's a it's a it's a cool story from the perspective of a young goalie coming in and potentially uh you know leading a team that was in last place when he came to winning the stanley cup here but i mean just in terms of his numbers and in terms of his numbers and of some of the other other stuff and just watching him play like it does feel like I don't know what we project for him moving forward but he's in a pretty cushy spot here with his blues d because it seems like structurally they make up for a lot of the mistakes he makes or especially in terms of like preventing stuff going through the slot and making life easier for him where you can just

kind of key in on shooters I don't know are you as impressed as some other other mainstream media members seem to be with his play uh I'm impressed by him I think um first off I'd like to just clarify that none of my comments about Jake Allen or Jake Allen endorsements there more. Good, good, just to be clear. Goaltending in general, you know, that anyone could kind of go in a run there. But also, I think part of the phrase for Biddington goes, it speaks to the fact that people

recognize the Blues weren't a crappy team, even when they were in a crappy spot in the standings. It's just that they were being so badly let down by their goaltending. So Biddington came in and performed even average, but then above average, and was the rock the St. Louis team needed to stand on before they could show people just how solid they were throughout their whole lineup. I think it really elevated the status of Bennington and what he did. He allowed them to be the team they could be. So, you know, he got a lot of love for that, and he's certainly been riding that wave.

You know, overall, his statistics are not mind-blowing by any effect, but I will say, one, I really do like watching him. I think he's positional and, you know, he's busy enough and quiet enough. I like him. I'm confident with him and that. And a lot of that has to do with his own confidence. And you've seen the big talk right now, right, is what is bounce back stats. After the Blues lose, he comes back and his numbers have been fantastic. He's not ran by the moment.

And I know the tendency from the more analytical, those are the analytical bent, is to say, you know, to sort of not give any credence to those sort of theories. that it's just another game and he's happened to play well in those games, whatever. The fact that he's not shook, the fact that he keeps bouncing back and no matter of the moment continues to play well, that does say something to me about his makeup as a person. So I think there's another element of it for me where maybe he's only played average, but I, if you're the blues, you feel confident having a guy who's not, the moment's not too big for him. So I am a fan of his game.

I think that's fair. I still, I think if the blues do win and he doesn't have like a 70 save shoutout or something, and he wins the cons. My, I think I will be pretty annoyed because I do feel like there are a couple more deserving players on this team based on this postseason. Well, I just get annoyed how goaltenders just get this. You know, if no one does great and they win, they're like, I guess the goalie, the goalie was okay? It's true. I mean, in theory, we talk about this with a hard trophy, but like, I mean, technically by the letter of the law,

like, every goalie is their team's most valuable player. like I mean so if they win yeah I guess he was their most valuable but um okay we're gonna take a look at some game seven stuff and some X factors and make some picks here in a second let's hear from a sponsor one more time real quick and then we're going to wrap the show sponsoring today's episode of the hockey PDO cast is Harry's Razors it's fitting that we're talking about raises on today's episode of the PDO cast considering it is marking the end of the 2018 19 NHL season uh after this last final game seven For those you that have still been growing out your playoff beards, whether you're a blues fan, a Bruins fan, or just showing your love to the sport and keeping it out for the rest of the season. It's time to start thinking about what you're going to do for the summer now that it's heating up and it's hotter out there and you're going to be spending time at the beach. You're going to be sweating and you want to get it more breathable.

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So as a listener on my show, get in on this and redeem their trial set by just going to harries.com. Make sure you go to harries.com slash PDO to redeem your offer and let them know that I sent you to help support the show. Now let's get back to Justin Bourne. All right, let's go through a couple X factors or sort of predictions or what you're looking for on game seven in terms of what could decide this thing because I do think we both agree that it's going to be pretty closely contested. I mean, these two teams match up really, really tightly. Well, I'd like to first contradict myself.

I called St. Louis to win this series in seven before the series. That was my pick. And you often hear people say, so I'm sticking with that. And I'd like to say, I am changing my mind. I just everything I've seen in this series to me is again St. Louis hanging on in Boston probably being the better team. Rask has been so solid all the way through. We know single game outcomes there's just so heavily hinged on the play of goaltenders. And Rass just looks like he's on another plane right now that we haven't seen the Bruins top guys do anything yet.

And given the magnitude of the moment, I expect them to be better. I don't know. just everything in my mind, it being in Boston, there's just a little bit on the Bruins side. So I'm leading Boston. What do you got, Dimitri? Yeah, I think the Bruins, just because they are at home, and just because I do have more faith that even if they get outplayed,

RAS can win this game for them, I'm going to go with them. I think there's a very reasonable case to make that the Blues are the better team. They might not be the more skill team, but I think they've outplayed them. So far a 5-1-5, and a lot of that's to do with team health. But, I mean, Rask, we really can't sort of, of oversell just how good he's been. They've had five elimination games this here where they either could be eliminating the team or they were backs up against the wall and he stopped

145 out of 149 shots he's faced there. You know, 938 save percentage. It's just all of his stats are absolutely obscene and I was thinking in terms of the big winners of this and if the Bruins win like at this point if Rask wins this and wins the cons might he is, I know it's still early. He still has plenty of time left in his career, but he's like a no doubt about it first ballot Hall of Famer, right? I mean, I haven't really considered that before, but yeah, I mean,

let me throw some stats at you. Are you ready for us? Let's have it. Okay, so, I mean, we obviously discredit goalie wins and all that. I mean, we don't buy into it, but it does feel like if you have like over 300, it feels like this. It's kind of this, like, cutoff point where people like to see that. Be it noteworthy.

Yeah, I mean, it speaks to your longevity, I guess, if anything. But, you know, he has a 920 career save percentage in the regular season. Only Dominic Hachek and Ken Dryden have better over 200 games played. 928 playoff say percentage in 90 games with guys over 50 games played. Only Braden Holpey and Tim Thomas have better numbers. Wow. I don't even need anything after that. That's all the same.

Yeah, I think so. It's kind of an unassailable resume. Like we don't think about it because obviously in the generation that came before him, it was Lankwist and Luongo. And then this one, it's kind of like Kerry Price. And then I guess Brayden Holder, be based on his postseason resume and maybe some other guys and rass kind of gets lost in the shuffle a little bit and people like to blame him a lot because this brun's team is always good so if they

lose it's his fault and if they win we just expect him to do well but man like if you just look at it just based on both the longevity and the actual compilation of the stats but also the highs he's had and especially early in his career when he came in and he was just an absolute phenom and how he's carried it on and sort of revitalized himself the season I do think that um the resume is is just like you really can't really pick it apart. There's also like a stylistic element though to like realizing of maybe worrying how like him doesn't get as much credit or isn't thought of in that life. And I think it's because he doesn't look like the prototypical, you know, big butterfly.

Like the past generation of great goaltenders have been large blocking goaltenders by and large. And we even know that the best goaltender in the history of the NHL, Dominic Hassett, never got his due, and a lot of that is because he looked ridiculous. He looks flat out ridiculous, but he stopped the hockey puck. And Tugour has a fair to his game where he will be disciplined within his save selection and all that, you know, that goalie jargon. But at the same time, he stops the puck. He will abandon what he has to do to make those saves.

So maybe he looks a little bit more flaley sometimes in other goaltenders, and you think he's kind of losing his battered out. control, but really he's just trying to stop the puck, and that's a great goal he's due. So I'm a fan, and personally, I'm a fan of anyone who throws milk crates and loses their mind and throws their sticks. Hockey needs all the personality and excitement it can get. Tuka has a personality. Right now they're doing, like, Finnish press conferences where they're asking him weird,

finished questions, basically just to make the people at the press conference beside him uncomfortable because they don't know what's going on. I think it's just fantastic. So I am a full, too-gar-ass supporter. I think at this point of his career, he's a bit Tabor. You know, I think he's a bit chilled out. But it would be amazing to see the Blues win, him win the Kahn's mite anyways, and then him absolutely freak out.

What's that? Sorry, sorry. I'm not trying to have a fire truck. Yeah, no, I heard that. Usually the sirens are coming from my end. This is a PDO-K's first. No, it'd be amazing to see the Blues win, Rask win the Kansk win, and then him just absolutely have a meltdown

and just, like, destroy the Konsmike up against the glass or something. Just pull a shooting. McGavin and just like rip across the ice and take it just like full on book it down the hallway I would absolutely be all for that that would be the best outcome for me in game seven here's uh here's one of my big x factors in game seven so in game six and and throughout the series we talk about the struggles of the top line for the Bruins but crachie and de brusk have really been quiet and they didn't have a point through the first five games and i i believe uh you know cradchey got an assistant game six but it felt like those two guys you they removed david bacchus from that line

they added some speed with Carson Coolman, and it felt like they were really buzzing in the offensive zone and creating a bunch of chances, and I thought it was the most dangerous they've looked in some time. And just based on the way we've seen these matchups go, we know that the top lines are kind of going to go head to head. We know that Ryan O'Reilly's probably going to go against that Charlie Coil, Marcus Johansson combo.

So it does feel like there's an opening there for Creation de Brusk to go in some softer minutes maybe against either the third or fourth line for the blues. And when those guys are going, they really make the Bruins so much more dangerous. and give them a kind of an added element with that secondary scoring punch. So I think for them to win, they're going to need another replica of the game six they had, as opposed to the first five games we saw from them. Yeah, I mean, on top of, you know, we're talking, it's kind of incredible that the series is 3-3. Well, just, you know, I've talked about how I think Boston has been the better team,

and they've, you know, come out on top fairly handily in the games they've won. The same time, we're saying that their top guys haven't played particularly well, and they've had next-to-no support scoring, really. you're right like creachy hasn't really been there and de brusk hasn't been there so at some point we need something to give here one of these guys whether it's the top line of their secondary scores or that line in particular

to step up because yeah crachy hasn't been very good you know who's been really bad is danton hyden hyden you know this guy he's a decent hockey player he can create something here and there and given you know he has good line mates and he's not playing tough competition he'd like to see a little something more out of a guy like that um for boston to step up

So those opportunities are going to be there, and it will be interesting to see if someone like that can find a way to break through. You know, the other big winner here, if the Blues do win, it's I guess even if they lose, we still need to command the job. He's on Craig Baroube. I mean, obviously, you know, he's a Jack Adams finalist, and everyone knows about sort of the difference he made coming in, taking in from Mike Yill, but usually, you know, when we evaluate coaches,

we kind of have to preface it with saying a lot of this stuff happens. behind the scenes and the preparation and sort of dealings with the players and we we aren't really privy to it but just in terms of sort of the roster management and the personnel and how he has coordinated this postseason i thought he's done a masterful job of sort of pushing all the right buttons and really uh it sounds like a bit of a cliche but knowing his personnel and knowing what he's working with and having a feel for it i mean whether like you know they had some suspension and injuries but he puts sammy blaze in um against dallas and he immediately gives him a scoring punch he puts in Zach Sanford and he's had a couple huge assists in this series and really felt like he got Ryan O'Reilly going a little bit in the offensive zone and Joel Edmondson who's a big name for them was really struggling and he had no issue just taking him out of the lineup and replacing him with someone else and so whatever it's been throughout this postseason he's been kind of one step ahead and everything he's done is worked out so obviously if they finish the deal here he's going to it's going to put a nice little bow on a really magical season for him yeah I mean it couldn't have gone any better

I don't know what he would look like behind the bench of a team if you handed them, Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, you know, like a team like that with like a handful of elite talents or even here in Toronto. You know, some young guys and some personalities that maybe are a little, you know, different in terms of what motivates them and how to get them going. But he just seems such a good fit for a team with enough veteran experience, enough youth in the legs. you know, that's just hungry enough. Everything is matched at well enough. And like you said, he's got a good sense of their depth players and who to plug in where and when.

And it's all sort of come up aces for him so far. So you're right. This would be one of the, you know, is to the ability to weaken rate coaching performances, this would be one of the best we'd ever seen since he's taken over the St. Louis Blues. There's really not a chink in the armor. It's just been flawless.

Well, and speaking of flaws, I mean, and the blues, we mentioned Doug Armstrong and the Ryan O'Reilly trade. But I love the decisiveness with which this roster was put together. We don't typically think of the blues that way because they've kind of been hovering around, not mediocrity, but good regular seasons and then falling short in the postseason and losing to all those Kings and Blackhawks teams over the years. But what was it? Over the past two years, you know, they were kind of in that playoff bubble.

And then they traded away Kevin Shattonkirk first for a first round pick in Zach Sanford. And they traded away Paul Stazni the next year at the deadline. And those felt like kind of like lateral or backwards moves. but then I think that was just the GM sort of appreciating that his team probably wasn't good enough to win a Stanley Cup that year and he cashed in on those assets that were going to leave in free agency anyways and got future picks

and prospects and so on and so forth and then this summer he saw a bit of an opening and they went for it, they signed Bozac, they signed Perron, they signed Maroon, they trade for Ryan O'Reilly and all of a sudden you got this great team and it didn't happen the way we thought it would with their struggles early on in the year but I think he's done a really good job

in terms of how he's put this team together with obviously not, you know, an overflow of cash to work with. Yeah, I mean, at the same time, I hear you mention all the moves he made and like I hate almost every single one of them. You know, like I felt like they've had a good team. You're right, though,

he's been honest about who they are and where they're at, but I felt like they've had a good team in any year you can win in hockey, and I felt like by taking away, you know, Staston, Kirk, it's done the disservice to his team to the fans and all that but you're a great big pitcher it's the smart thing to do um you know sort of what are you building towards but then when you decide to okay we're going all in and you find tyler bozac and patrick maroon you know it's really easy to say way to go doug bozac and roo but it's worked out he's done a brilliant those guys have been good

they've uh they've filled necessary slots and um things have certainly panned out the way he wanted them to and now we'll look at how at the position the team is in, having recouped the assets from the trades that they made, now being a game from the Stanley Cup, all of a sudden things, you know, things are very sunny and rosy for Doug Armstrong. So it's all panned out for him. At the time, though, a lot of the groups may be skeptical. Yeah, no, I mean, you're right, obviously. I like them before the season, and then December, I think, obviously, people were seeing

a bit of a different tutor. I imagine Doug Armstrong wasn't patting himself on the back at that point. So, you know, with recency bias, it's obviously worked out in hindsight. but no you're right i mean and and you know you mentioned a maroon and bozac there and and pran's the other guy they signed and i think the commentators haven't done a good enough job in this series of mentioning how he's been he like he generally is and he has been in this series i think like the biggest shit distributor on the ice you know we talk about bradmarshine all the time about how he's like doing like little stuff here and there and and trying to get away with stuff and and poking jordan

bittington and so on and so forth but man it feels like perron is always in the middle of absolutely everything Yeah, and Farage really good at making it look like he just got tangled up with someone. Like, oh boy, well, the two of us were just going at each other. And I guess the two of us got cut off. But boy, the two of us are really going at it here. But it's always him. He's always one of the two. And that's great to be able to draw people into that stuff.

There's something to be written about that. And maybe that's something I should consider doing about that element of the game of what it's like playing against someone like that. He's just like, God. I remember playing in a junior hockey playoff series. At the time, unbelievably, I was actually one of the better players on my team. And one of the other teams had one of those rats. And all he did was slash my left leg. He would never slash the right one.

But it was the left leg every time. And I would see this guy coming by game three and four. And I would keep my distance. I wanted nothing to do with them. Wherever he went, I was trying to stay away from because the bruises so bad on the back of my leg as that series went on. and it's one of those things where like I didn't what do you do it just kept happening and that frustrating test of a player was affecting the way I played

and I think Perron and Marshawn deserve a little bit of loans because I'm sure there's plenty of times guys are going out of their way to avoid those guys I love that that's such psychotic behavior just working the one leg for one like I couldn't get a right leg flash not one one man that's so good um all right Justin well I'm looking forward to this It's obviously game seven Stanley Cup final It speaks for itself

And it's going to be a blast And I'm looking forward to go to the beach After the game And enjoying the summer And all that good stuff Plug some stuff I know you wrote a bunch about the series So let the people know

Where they can check that out And where they can catch you online Yeah generally everything I write I link to through Twitter It's at JT Bourne Otherwise all my work is at the athletic And if you have to be Toronto based Sportsnet Fan 590

I'm on the good show on Monday's at 3 o'clock. Awesome, man. Well, enjoy the game 7, enjoy the summer, and we will check back in with you sometime down the road. This is a blast.

All right, sounds good. Thanks, Demetri. Cheers. The Hockey P.D.O.cast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey p.docast.