The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 302: Draft Weekend Winners and Losers

Episode Date: June 24, 2019

Chris Peters joins the show to discuss the winners and losers of the 2019 draft weekend, the few impactful trades we saw, and the overarching themes to take from the extravaganza. 1:20 Teams with extra assets to play with3:30 Forwards falling, defensemen rising10:40 The Coyotes draft board13:00 A goalie being taken in the lottery15:40 Best player available vs. organizational needs18:40 The Avalanche add even more speed and skill23:30 The Kings continue to hoard forward talent27:50 The Hurricanes ridiculous pick volume31:10 The Red Wings loading up on defensemen34:30 The PK Subban trade45:00 The Canucks trading away a future firstSee acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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and joining me on this beautiful early Saturday evening right after the 2019 NHL draft. If you can tell, I don't have no preparation for an intro here because I'm running on fumes. My brain is scrambled. I've got a million names circulating in my head. But it's Chris Peters. Hey. My ESPN colleague, we're going to be chatting about the draft. We're going to be chatting about the draft.

Sure. Maybe, yeah, let's get right into it. Let's get around the bush. I was going to ask you some stuff about how long you've been covering the draft, all of this stuff, but you and I are both so tired right now. I think we should just get right into this. Let's start with the winners. Let's be optimistic.

Let's be glass-half-full kind of guys. Let's sell fans on hope. Oh, I love it. That's what I do for a living. You know, I think it was a great year to have two picks in the draft. So that's one thing right off the hop. You look at what Colorado was able to do. You look at what Los Angeles was able to do.

and even with their early second round pick and getting Arthur Kaliyev, there's so much value to be had in the first two rounds of this draft. I think the teams that were able to collect multiple picks there did really well, one of which being the Carolina Hurricanes, who really loaded up on picks by trading back a lot. They also got great value in the first round with Ryan Suzuki, who I really like. I think the reason that he dropped is that there's some concern that he's,

a bit perimeter player um but you know you look at carolina and they take they take them and then they continue to load up on skill i i kind of felt like they may have been peeking at my draft board just because they kept picking guys that i really liked a lot like carol slept at slate um patrick puistola uh they they had some really really good picks and this is a team that was in the eastern conference final this year i mean like they're not supposed to have this kind of draft hall so for me, the Kings, the Avalanche, definitely the Carolina Hurricanes, those are some of the big winners right away. Well, let's get into all of those.

I think the overarching theme here for the entire draft weekend, which encompasses some of the trades we saw, which we can get into as well, the actual picks. Even before it, some of the stuff the Rangers did with getting Adam Fox and getting Jacob Truba, it's this idea of like accumulating assets, whether you use them as actual draft currency, whether cap space is an asset. Right. You know, you can look at it any different way, but a lot of these teams, and you mentioned that had two first round picks, just based on the way the draft shook out, in a lot of

those instances, especially with the second picks being either in the late teens or early 20s for those teams, there were a lot of very skilled forwards that fell in this draft and slid. And for those teams, they probably went into the process on maybe they were optimistic thinking they could get them, but basically they just kind of sat back. and waited and these guys fell into their laps. And so whether it's New Hook at 16 for the abs with their second pick, whether it's Brayton Tracy at 29 for the Ducks,

whether it's, I'm trying to even think right now. I mean, there's any number of teams. There was just so much forward depth in this draft that was falling and falling because there was such a rush for defensemen. So I guess that the other theme, where whether it's because teams realize that maybe trading for defensemen

or signing defensemen is such a sort of losing, proposition because you're going to wind up spending so much either money or trade assets to do so a lot of these teams are trying to draft young defensemen and then stash them and then have as many of them as possible to have them playing on eLCs for them eventually and so we saw a lot of that we can get into those individual players but the result was it was a good time to be picking in the 20s because there were so many good forwards yeah everybody you know I think I look at a guy like Philip Tomasino as well as a guy that I thought would go higher I heard a lot of buzz that he was going to go higher. I went 24th to Nashville and he's such a tremendous fit for that organization.

And Connor McMichael, same type of thing with the Washington Capitals. And then Ryan Suzuki is the prime example, I think, of a guy that dipped even further. And, you know, talking about some of those defensemen that went high, I mean, Detroit really threw a wrench in the entire thing. It was cool because I haven't covered a draft live in a while since the one in Philly four or five years or whatever, but it was cool just being on that sort of draft floor with all the rest of the media because it was just like a, oh, like it was, there were gasps throughout the arena. The loudest gas was more at Siders, by the- Exactly. I mean, he looked like he was going to pass out. And I, you know, I've interviewed him before. He's one of my favorite people to talk to you

in this draft class. I was so happy for him. I thought it was a bit of a reach for, for the Detroit. It's a risky pick because he did not play power play penalty kill. He was like averaging about 11 minutes a game, bottom pairing defensemen in the German elite league. And that's not us. You know, that's probably where you should be when you're 17 years old in a lineup where you've got former NHLers and top pros. But oh my gosh, I mean, the sound in that building from the fans, from the media, I think even from the draft floor, no one saw that coming. So everyone that I talked to on Friday night, and a lot of these people were actually pretty plugged in, much more plugged in than I am as insiders and as people that have been talking to these teams, I was like, I actually like Sider quite a bit as a prospect. Yeah.

I think he's the right type of project to be buying kind of low on or whatever or investing in for down the road. The problem is they didn't buy low because they drafted him at sixth overall with a bunch of really big name forward still available. And so my point was, I felt like they could have got inside or later if they were just like, if they really wanted him, which is understandable, just trade down, recruit future assets. And what I got back a lot of was they felt like if they traded back, they might miss out on him. Because as we saw, I mean, what the coyotes trade up from 14 to 11 to take Victor Soderstrom. Broberg goes eighth. I mean, so we saw this run of defensemen. And then there was that other run later on with Hinole and Lassie Thompson and so forth.

And so I guess they just thought that we can't really afford because we really want this player to move down at all. So we're just going to take him and get our guy. And there's from like a money ballish value perspective, you can quibble with it from like stick to your guns and just like call your shot and sort of be like we want this guy. So we're going to get them. I kind of admired in a way. I can definitely see both sides of it. Yeah, I can too. And I mean, I get it.

And I also want to just give a quick shout out to J.D. Burke too because he had that he tagged like a 24. hours in advance. And so I say when nobody saw it coming, J.D. saw it coming. So good on him. I want to give him a shout out for that because, I mean, aside from that, there was just not a lot of buzz that that was going to be the way that they went. And, you know, it's Steve Eisenman's first draft. You know, he wants to make, you know, the right picks. He's not going to just make a splash for the sake of making a splash. But I think in his case, in John Chica's case, the, the decision to go for those defensemen, both right shot guys, both, you know, there's a lot of value in that. I think a lot of teams are looking for right shot defensemen.

I really think that, you know, I give them credit for that. I think Moritz-Sider probably would have been there later. I just don't know how far you would have wanted to move back. Right. But at the same time, if you have a guy, if you're high on them, you just take them and you don't care about anything about who's around there. I think there were more value in the forwards that were available. I mean, Cole Coughfield was still on the board there. Trevor Zegress was still on the board there.

Matthew Boldy, you know, Peyton Krebs, who slipped even further. I mean, there was a lot of value to be had there, but if you have a guy and you like them, you're going to do whatever you have to do to take them and you don't care how high. Well, it's funny you bring up Coughield there because I was going to point out, I think, in the pre-draft process and a lot of these mock drafts

For whatever reason, Cam York was a guy who was really linked to the Montreal Canadians at 15. And it's approaching there and you think, okay, it's going to work out neatly where, you know, it's telegraphed, but it's going to happen. And then the flyers just take him at 14. And so it's one of those things where I wouldn't, I didn't think Cam York would go that high. I thought he would land them at 15. But you never know. And I'm sure the Canadians are very happy getting cold call field. But it just goes to show you that you kind of can't just like sit back.

And if you really like a guy, you need to actually go and get him because you can't just bed. on it happening anyways. Right. And I'm pretty sure that Philadelphia would have taken them if they kept their 11th pick too. Because I, you know, I think Cam York is, is, you know, he plays such a, such a great brand of hockey. He's the modern defenseman, really. I mean, the way that he plays. And I thought it was a really smart move by Chuck Fletcher to make that gamble and say, okay, well, if we don't get him, one of those guys is going to be there for us. I think everybody, you know, I'm sure it wasn't a big secret that, that Arizona wanted. Soderstrom. I certainly thought that maybe they were going, I had heard some rumblings that they were

looking goaltender. And so I wondered if it was for Spencer Knight, but he ended up going two picks later. So yeah, it was, it was a wild, like that whole segment of the draft there was pretty crazy, but I did want to give Chuck Fletcher some credit for getting an extra asset, which he then used to get Bobby Brink. To get Bobby Brink, which is like, and that, the, the, the, the jumbling of picks in this draft was one of my favorite elements of it, because. I thought that the teams that traded back just crushed in a lot of situations where they got two options as opposed to one of a guy that could provide some value as a late round pick. Yeah, two options that could have been one. And in a lot of those cases, like the guy they got later on, if they would have just taken him with their initial pick, it would have been justified.

Right. That's the way it kind of shook out. And yeah, that's a great point. I was going to bring that up as well because I've been critical of Chuck Fletcher with some of the recent moves and signings he's done leading up to this. but that was a great value proposition he made there. And I had a question for you, before we move off of this run of defensemen, this report came out that John Chigah had Victor Soderstrom as the third overall player on his draft board.

When you see stuff like that, are you actually buying that? Or do you think it's kind of like, it seems like too convenient. It's like justification, like pumping his own player up where it's like, we love this guy and that's why we took him where we did and trade it up for him. Because it seems pretty far-fetched, even though they did trade up to 11 to get him, that they would actually deem him to be the third best prospect of this class. Given the amount that Arizona invests in scouting and, you know, the amount of time that those guys have to put in on that staff, I buy it. I buy that they had them there.

Now, the other thing that, the other factor that at play there, you know, I certainly, he was actually my fourth defenseman on my board, you know, so or fifth, I think, because I had him behind Sider in Broberg and York. Yeah. And so, so, so yeah, so it's kind of, it was all subjective. obviously this year we knew that there was no consensus after two and that meant that there were going to be the more at siders and the and the victor soterstrums that teams had that high now john chenka also said i'm not leaving this draft without victor soterstro right um and i still think if he would i still think you would have been there but that would have been a gamble you know but yeah it was a gamble either way so yeah but it's it was pretty fascinating to kind of see the shuffling that went on uh and i i don't doubt it

that he was the number three guy on their board. Well, it's funny because I guess the Panthers aren't as much anymore now that Dale Tallon is back running the ship mostly. But I guess in terms of the draft, they still have a lot of their, you know, analytical draft experts there. Oh, the computer boys? Yeah, the computer boys, exactly, helping run their draft. And so it was funny because back to back with the coyotes and the Panthers,

you see the coyotes trade up to get Victor Soderstrom. And then the Panthers take a goalie at 13. And it's like those are like two of the most kind of anti-analytic strategies come to draft and they did it and I'm sure there's a lot of elements to go into that but sometimes this stuff is also it's not necessarily like going uniformly in a straight line sometimes if you see an opportunity to pounce you might lose from a value perspective but gain long term because you got the better player if you right right and I I wonder how I wonder how hard Dale talent swallowed when he saw Arizona move up and in like are we going to not get our goalie because I'm pretty

sure that Dale Tallon was was really into getting Spencer night at whatever cost and you know, those are kind of the anti-analytic moves, but at the same time, you know, you, I think with, particularly with Spencer Knight and getting into a goalie picking, you know, in the first round, the risk is high. There's no question. It doesn't matter how good the goalie prospect is. He's the highest drafted since Jack Campbell. And then you bring up the name Jack Campbell.

Who was awesome last year for the game? He was great, you know, but it took him a long time to get there and, and he needed the right coaching and everything. but, you know, anything can happen with these guys along the way. But Spencer Knight was so far in a way the best goaltender in this draft that you wouldn't, if you weren't going to get him, you probably wouldn't want to settle for anything less than that. So I understand why so many teams were interested in picking him in the top 15. Well, it's funny when I did a mock draft with Cam Robinson here a few days ago,

and we talked about how just with the development in the draft and how teams have realized that, you know, goalies are a bit of a crap shooting. You don't want to invest super premium assets in them. Usually what happens is come the second or third round, one GM finally pulls the trigger. And then all the other GMs out there are like, oh, well, he did it. So now I can do it.

No one's going to make fun of me. And we saw that this year where the hurricanes take Kachekov, what, 36 or whatever. And then all of a sudden you see Sogaard go off the board. You see a couple teams trade up to get goalies. And all of a sudden, it just an absolute free-for-all. Right, exactly. And I thought this year that the top end of the goalie class was pretty tight.

outside of Spencer Knight. I thought, you know, Kachikov and Sogarde were my number two and number three goalies and the only other goalies that I even ranked in my own in my own ranking for the overall draft. But yeah, I mean, that's the thing. And you don't want to be holding the bag if, and especially if that's a position in need. And I think the teams that did go and get goalies addressed a position of need within their systems, like even Hugo Alenafelt going in the fourth round to Tampa Bay.

and they just traded away Connor Ingram. They had the spot, and that's a really nice ad at that range to have that. So, yeah, this was a really interesting class. There were guys that picked, you know, all the way through. There were a couple that didn't get picked that I thought would. But, yeah, it's kind of amazing to see the way that the goalie class kind of shook out this year. And then next year, we've got, we've got Ascarov, the Russian O2 goalie, who could go even higher.

than Spencer Knight. Wow. I'm looking for it to that. I mean, the tricky thing with goalies is, I can't completely what you're saying, coming from the perspective of organizational need and feeling more comfortable that you at least, like, have someone in the pipeline

where you can point to and be like, as bleak as things might look for us now, Annette, down the road, this is going to be our answer. But the issue with that is like, especially with 18-year-old goalies, by the time they're generally ready to compete in your, full-time for you at the NHL level, who knows what your organizational needs

are going to be? example for me of this is like the new york islanders recently where i imagine when they drafted ilia sarokin and stashed him and they probably view him as the goalie of the future and i'm sure they still do he has done nothing overseas to make us think that he's not going to be dominant when he comes here right right but then all of a sudden you just get robin lennar randomly and he just goes off and has this amazing year and he's still in his prime and they could sign him this summer long term and he could basically be in the way of ilia sarokin coming over and being a full-time goalie for them and so that's just like you never really know three projecting three four years down

the line what's going to happen what free agent you're going to sign who's going to randomly develop that you weren't expecting to and so that's always when teams are like going out of their way to draft purely for need as opposed to just best player available that's always kind of when I become like I'm not sure that that was the right thing to do right yeah well the one thing that I also want to point out about the whole goal tending situation is teams are investing more in goalie scouting now right there there are dedicated goalie scouts on a lot of teams not all the teams the the goalie coach in a lot of cases is involved in that process. But, you know, you look that they have guys that are specifically watching the goalies and they're watching them all throughout the country. They're,

you know, throughout the world. And, and that's their sole focus. And I think that that's leading to better decisions, for one. It is also making GMs more comfortable because they're not taking people's word that, that aren't an expert in the, in the position. Most of the guys that are goalie scouts or former goaltenders themselves, former goalie coaches, So they have the nuances of the position And I think they also have a good feel For the temperament of the players And so I think that that's leading to better decisions

I think that was a market inefficiency for a while Like we're just going to use our scouts And they're going to be able to pick out goalies And that doesn't work And you need somebody to pump the brakes for you So I think when you have guys Where that's their sole focus And they're not also the goaltending coach

That's when you get better decisions So I think that that's that's helping things In terms of the risk that's involved But yeah, I mean, it's amazing to me that, you know, the goalies have gotten so good at, you know, at the NHL level anywhere below. It's kind of amazing that you can't, you know, you would think that it would be easier to make that decision. Right. But it's a mental position. Yes.

And now you're, you don't know what a kid's maturity is going to be like. You don't know how he's going to grow up. It's, you know, there's all sorts of outside factors that play into it. And, I mean, you have to have somebody that has a great feel for all of it. Yeah, no, definitely. It's risky, obviously, if it pans out, you're going to wind up sitting pretty. But, you know, a team that we haven't talked about yet that I thought absolutely killed it at this draft was a Colorado avalanche.

Yes. And one of the big questions I had coming into this when we were trying to kind of forecast how the top of the draft was going to go. Obviously, the Blackhawks were kind of the pivot team there. When you knew what was going to happen to one, two. And then it was, okay, whatever the Blackhawks do, I guess there's a guy. going to be a guy that falls into the Aves, Lappado, to make a decision easy.

And a lot of us thought it was going to be Turcotte going number three, and then the Aves would just go Byron. But when Dak went off the board of three, I think there was an interesting debate to be had there where if you're the Aves, considering that you have recently invested in Makar, you still have Sam Girard, Tyson Berry's still there. We'll see how long he'll be there for.

But you have young defensemen already in place. Connor Timmons, are you better off maybe just going with a guy like Turcott and trying to lock down that number two center behind Nathan McKinnon to fill the role that Tyson Jost, I guess, was thought to be, which hasn't panned out for them. And funny enough, they went Byron and four, they took the defenseman, and then they got Alex Nehook at 16, who quite possibly could very easily just be that number two center for them and is a massive value at 16.

And so, I mean, it goes to our point of having those assets, having the two first rounders, but for them, it fell perfectly into their laps and a team that certainly has plenty of skill and skating ability already, just added to prolific skaters and playmakers who very conceivably within two, three years could be big time factors for them and will still be right in line with this timeline of McKinnon, Randon, and Landisog, and so on and so forth. It's scary to think about for other teams. For us, as analysts, it's very fun because I can't wait to watch all those guys play. Yeah, they, they, I think Joe Sackacki deserves a lot of credit for the, the strategy that this team has

kind of undertaken since the crazy Patrick W years. And I mean, it's all about let's get faster, let's get more skilled. And they've done it the draft. This is a team that's actually really struggled to draft outside of the first round. So it was actually really valuable that they had two first rounders this year. And I really like their second round pick, Drew Helleson, a big defenseman who moves the puck pretty well. But they got so much better on their D-Corps within a year.

I think Byram needs another year, junior. I could be wrong. I mean, I think there's a chance he could step in. I think it would behoove them to give him one more year to just, you know, he was dominant this year, but I think there were elements of his game that still need refining. And then Alex Newhook is going from the BCHL to college hockey. There's always kind of a little bit of a rocky start there, but he's going to be an impact player for B.C. And they've got, so with that, they've got two guys that they can kind of allow to develop and maybe have a,

I think Byron's got the shorter timeline of the two. But they draft to type now. And I think that's a lot of teams are doing that, where it's not just about best player available. It's about fit. It's about how does this guy do the things that we need in our system? And I think it's leading to better decisions. And the interesting thing is you know,

you think they have Kail McCar already. Connor Timmons hopefully will be healthy this year. And he's a really good player when he is healthy. it's very interesting to me to see that they're like, hey, why not just get the cornerstone defensemen and have two of them? You can never have too many. You can't have too many. McCar's a right shot. Byram's a left shot.

You know, you're feeling really good about where everything is heading for the avalanche. And again, I think it's just because they have focused on this long-term strategy of getting faster and more skilled. and it's already paying off for him. Yeah, and even I think Boccage in like the third round or something, I like him as well. Yeah, no, they drafted really well. Yeah, I liked all their late stuff. I mean, even like Luca Burson is another guy that can fly.

And Trent Minor, so a lot of people had said had the avalanche pegged as Spencer Knight's destination at 16. Well, they go ahead and they wait until the seventh round to get a goal. And I think Trump Miners got a lot of upside. I mean, it's a seventh round pick. Yeah. You know, you hedge a little bit. But at the same time, you know, they filled out their prospect pool pretty nicely here with, with this draft and last years as well.

So a couple of other winners I have here. I have the ducks because I really like Trevor Zegris, I think. Me too. Like I, he was probably like my third favorite prospect in this class. I really loved him a lot. Bradent Tracy at 29. I like him quite a bit as well with the Golden Knights, getting Krebs falling to them at 17. Huge.

four or five at 79. You know, they didn't have the massive pick volume by any means, but they just kind of fell into their lap and they got a bunch of skill and they drafted very well in their very short time in this league. And so that was cool to see. But from a volume perspective, I think my number one winner might have been the Kings. And it's funny because they're one of the teams that had the two first round picks. Yep.

And I actually didn't love their second first round pick. I think Gornford's fine. Yeah. There were other guys. You know, we mentioned Tomasino, I think, went up to pick after. There were a couple other forwards that I like there. But Turcott fell to them at five. And if he went third overall, I don't think anyone would blink an eye.

Kalia fell to them at 33. I don't care if he's born in 1999 or if he's born in whatever year he claims. That's good value at that point. And they got Samuel Fagamo to follow them. I forget where, but in the 50s, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. And so this kind of continues this trend, which I've been pointing out recently of, you know,

they took Kapari, I killed Thomas. Jared Anderson Dolan You traded for Carl Garnstrom All of a sudden We think of it as this slow Plotting team With just an aging core And they still are that

At that NHL level Don't get me wrong It's going to be a slow burn here But at least like This is how teams are constructed Where you can't just have Two guys at any position And be like

Oh we're set now Right They just are going like Using a full host and they're just like, we're just going to, like, get like 15 of these guys, and a couple of them pan out were set. And so that's what they're doing here, and I really like to see that. Yeah, I think this is a very similar situation to Colorado

is that Rob Blake and their staff has said, we need to get faster. We need to get more skill again. And that is what they've been doing. And I think, you know, Tiberius Bornfoot is not an offensive juggernaut. We know that. But he is a good skater. He can make plays.

He's a great defender. Kaliev is not a fast skater, but he's actually pretty agile. He's good edge work. He can, you know, he can, you know, turn pretty well. You know, he's, he's lighter. He's got a heavy stride when he's going north and south, but he actually has some agility east-west.

And then, yeah, Fagamo, Jordan Spence is a really nice skater. So I think they put a premium, and all the previous prospects that you mentioned, they put a premium on speed, and that is going to help them in a big way very soon. I mean, the value they got with Akiel Thomas last year. Yeah. It's just outstanding.

He had an awesome year. A huge year, over 100 points in the O. You know, even going down to their seventh round pick, Andre Lee, I think that could be a really sneaky one. That's just Anders Lee with a fake mustache. Yeah, it might be. It might be. Yeah. But this one's Swedish.

So he's, yeah, he's so. So he very well, he could be Swedish and honestly. But I just think that the kings have, you know, they've kind of moved past. Unfortunately, they've had, you know, the why am I blanking? Valardi. Yes, thank you. Gabriel Valardi, you know, who hasn't been able to play.

And again, it was a skill player there. Yeah. And he fell to that because he was like one of the big followers. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think that they did such a good job. And I agree with you that they're a winner.

Calli Ev is like having a third first rounder. I mean, the goal scoring that he has is, is unbelievable. And, you know, you look at the two guys. guys they picked before him and character is way high on the list for Alex Turcott and Tobias Bjornfoot. And then it's maybe not for Arthur Kelly. Well, on average it works out. That's been that's been the knock.

But the teams that have like good cultures. Right. And good leadership, like the, like the San Jose Sharks last year taking Ryan Merckley in the first round, I still don't know if that's going to pan out for them. But either way, you get those guys and you say, hey, we can, we can get. him to where he needs to be. And I think that's what Arthur Calliav pick says to me. And it was smart for them to not let him drop much further in that second round. And yeah, at a certain point of the draft, like when you just get a guy with that much

raw ability, it's like it might not work out. But if it does work out, it's just worth the risk at that point. It's not like you're burning a high first round pick. It's like, whatever. And that's, again, the value of having two first rounders. That was their third year for the draft. Right. And then they also had two second rounders. So you're like, we've got a cushion. We've got a cushion. We can take a swing here. Well, volume-wise, the Hurricanes made 13 draft picks. And I was going to do some research, and then I just don't know when the last time a team made that many picks was.

But it might have been Montreal last year. They had a tonne last year. Yeah, yeah. It's possible. But so in a matter of minutes during the draft, I love this. They flipped. So they took Kuchetka out 36. And then they start, it's like they like Jedi mind trick the other teams because they took that goalie.

They kind of started that goalie run I just talked about. then Ottawa is like, oh, goalies. So then they trade 37 for 44 and 83. Matt Sogard goes with 37. Then they flip 59 for 73 and 99. And they just wind up getting all these guys that everyone loves. They just keep falling. Antonio Honka, Pistolas, you mentioned, Dominic Fensor, Slepets, who I love watching

and world juniors. And it's all this pick value, pick volume. I don't know which of these guys are going to pan out, but they took so many of them that I'm sure a couple of them will. and that's that classic Eric Tulski effect there where there's a lot of teams that just still, I feel like you know, you get very enamored.

And I know this kind of goes against what we were just talking about with some of these other teams that trade it up in the first round. But I think especially once you get into the second, third, fourth round, the difference between a lot of these prospects is pretty minimal.

So unless there's like a massive faller where you're like, okay, we have to take this guy because he should have gone 30 picks ago. Right. You shouldn't, it's always dangerous to get super enamored with just the one name. You kind of need to just like take a cold-blooded business approach and be like,

we're just going to get the pure best value here at some point. And for them, they just got such an array of picks and then kind of got the best of both worlds because a lot of the guys they probably would have taken with those original picks wound up just falling right into their laps. Oh, I mean, I could not love their draft more. I mean, I'm just going to count them. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, seven guys for my top 100, went to the Carolina.

So obviously I'm going to like what they did because it makes me feel like I know what I'm doing. Blake Murray was probably was listed as one of my favorite sleepers of the draft. They got them in the sixth round. I mean, it is incredible that this is a team that was in the Eastern Conference Final and here they have this hall

with Ryan Suzuki at the very top. He's one of their top prospects outside of, you know, Martin Nettches. And they won the Calder Cup. And they won the Calder Cup. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, some of these guys, you know, who knows, it won't take them terribly long. to get over here.

You know, they, I just, they didn't think about the size or the risk factor. And like, when you have those multiple picks, you can take the Antonio Honka, who needs a lot of work defensively. You can take Dominic Finsori, the, the, the, the 5 foot seven defensemen. I mean, how many 5 foot seven defensemen are there in the NHL, but he's an elite skater and a good, good offensive player. And then we both love Carrel Slefitz, who is just a 5 foot eight missile. Yeah.

So, I mean, like, it's, it's, it's really fun to see when a team does, this and does it this well. And yeah, I agree. I'm sure that there is an Eric Tulski effect there. And it played beautifully. And even their seventh round or Massimo Rizzo, high-end skill, you know, I don't know if he'll pan out, but you're betting on skill. And that was a theme throughout the draft for them. Well, I think I saw Manny tweeted out.

He has like a projected like 40% chance of becoming an NHL regular and with a seventh round pick. Yeah. That likelihood is very good. That's pretty good. Yeah. You know, I think the team that had the second most picks was the Red Wings, and we talked a little bit about more at Siders so far. But obviously a theme for them was getting defensemen. Big time.

They took five of them. They took three in the first two rounds. You know, speaking of organizational needs, as you look at their current roster, and it's a lot of Cronwall, Erickson, Daley, Mike Green, there's very little there in the way of youth. They got Jared McIsaac last year. You know, Dennis Chalowski started off last year really good for them. He was a former first round pick. I think he has upside. Philip Honek, who I love a lot, was a second round pick that same year, I believe.

So they're getting some pieces here. As much as we sort of questioned taking cider as high as they did, it's clear that they at least went about addressing their biggest area of need or biggest priority for them in this draft. And so I thought that was interesting that, like, they just went so all in in that one facet of the game. And I guess we'll see how it pans out with the next couple years. Yeah, I was so surprised, too, just because, I mean, really, they're in a position as an organization where they just, they need to continue building up young talent, regardless of position.

And, you know, when you're at number six, you just figure, oh, well, there's, there's Dylan Cousins, there's Cole Coughfield, there's Trevor Zegers, there's all these guys that potentially could provide more long-term value than more at cider. But, yeah, I mean, that did feel like a need-based kind of pick. I'm sure that Steve Eisman would bristle at that. I think that they probably just had more insider there. Antito Misto is another really interesting one. I think he's super raw. I didn't love him in games I watched this year. I thought that his short distance quickness to, you know,

in closing speed was not at a level that was going to be, make his size effective. But I do know that there's a rawness to him. And I think, you know, it's kind of worth taking a chance on. I did, however, really like the value that they got in their middle range. picks, especially like their later second round and third round picks, like Robert Mastro Cimony, who I really liked is, you know, he was in my top 30, he was in my top 40 this year. And then Albert Johansson, who, you know, I thought that there were some people that

thought he should be a first rounder. I never saw that, but I love him as a third. You know, and then, and then Albin Gereva, who is an unbelievable body checker and, you know, he kind of lacks offensive sense, but he's got some skill and he can skate. Yeah. You know, they kind of got a good diversity of talent, I would say. And then they also got one of my favorite sleepers in the draft, which Almer Soderblum, who is a 6'7 winger, and he can actually skate. Right.

Which you need, if you can't skate, you can't play. And then you also have, you know, he's got good hands. So, I mean, I thought that having as many picks as they did, they did address the key near, area of need effectively. Like I didn't ding them too badly because of, you know, the first two picks that I thought were reaches because I feel like they made significant strides in building out their prospect pipelines. Okay, let's get into some losers. I feel like we've been too optimistic. We have been too nice. I'm going to give you my first one and it's not necessarily as my, I mean, we're lumping this draft weekend together. It includes trades. Yeah, exactly. I'm

going to give the Predator is a bad grade here. Obviously, whenever you turn P.K. Suban into Steven Santini, Jeremy Davies, and two second round picks, we'll get into the ramifications add a little more here and sort of the actual nice NHL effect. But the thing that really bug me was, and I know this goes against what we just talked about, the Carolina Hurricanes killing it with the volume-based approach, but that one second round pick they got was the 34th overall pick. Right. And Bobby Brink's sitting right there, and they're making this trade so that I understand they're in kind of win now mode so they're making the PKK-Benz trade so they can probably sign Matt Duchenne because they feel

like their forward depth isn't up to snuff and they need more high-end skill. Yeah. And Bobby Brink clearly won't factor into anyone's 2019, 20-20-20-main roster anyways. Right, right. So that's kind of besides the point. But at least just like take the guy there with that 34th pick. I feel much better about the return if they got a guy who I think really should have gotten in the first round.

Yeah. Instead, they trade them for two picks where I didn't really think they got anything of necessary, like, anything of note. Like, I love Bobby Brink there, and we just commend to Chuck Fletcher for going up and getting them. Yeah. And I just wish the Predators did something more with that pick. Yeah, it was interesting. I mean, obviously the Suban trade was, you know, a shock to the system for all of us for a second there. I mean, and they're, you know, and I will say, I think Jeremy Davies, he had a bit of a, he's a pretty good prospect.

I mean, he's not, he's a middle range prospect, but he's still a thing. and then also he's a physical and he is he is he is a person yeah um i i also didn't necessarily feel like bobby brink was a was a stylistic fit for the for the preds because of the skating situation with him um i do think that they they did still have another second round pick and they got igor affanasiev who right is a power winger you know really he's going to play at Windsor next year. He dominated in the USHL this year. I didn't mind that.

And I thought their draft, the actual picks that they made in this draft were quite good. I wasn't super high on Alexander Campbell. I know a lot of people are. He was Alex New Hook's line mate at Victoria this year in the VCHL. But they did get some defensemen. Mark Del Geys owns Semion Chistakov, who I like both of those guys.

Del Geys are more of a sleeper, and Chistakab was actually in my top 100. And so, yeah, so I mean, you know if you if you do lump in the Suban trade for sure that's what I'm doing and you have to yeah and you have to and I say that's that totally fair but but I mean I think that they can at least be happy with their draft yeah if not necessarily entirely happy with the return for me give me give me some losers then come on I know I know I know well that well not everyone can win they can be a loser for you that's fine I'm giving I'm giving yeah you you can do that I mean I didn't well I mean

poor Columbus only had three picks. I mean, you know, so that's just a bad, they've lost. But they've drafted so well in the past. And they're prospect pipelines. They have in the past. And they're prospect pipelines. It doesn't really hurt them that badly. And the kid that they did take with their first pick, played like six games all year.

And he, I don't want to, I don't think I can pronounce his name. So that's why I'm not saying. But I had heard kind of later on or earlier in the season, or not early in the season, later in the season that there were a lot of teams that were hoping that nobody knew about it. Right. So, you know, of course, of course Yarmot and his staff knows about him. So, yeah, but I mean, still, it's only three picks. You can't make much of an impact.

Beyond the first round, Dallas, I didn't do much in terms. They only had four picks. I like Thomas Harley as a first rounder. You also know what is Harley Thomas? Yeah, also Harley Thomas. That was great. Yeah. We did miss out.

Can you imagine, like, you've been working so hard towards this for your entire life, which is, I guess, only 17 or 18. years at this point but this is your dream you're going to be looking back to the tape you're going to be watching this you're going to be telling your grandkids about it and then your name doesn't even get no no yeah that was that was that was i was like wait a second what just happened yeah who is that like i guess like for like claude jeru for example when it when you know they got his name wrong i forgot about it i guess like it's it's kind of funny especially if you wind up turning into an nchel star of course yeah then it's part of your story yeah of course it's like oh that's an

amazing story but it i imagine at this point it's a little bit like i just want to hear my called. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I also, I didn't love Calgary's draft. And this is the second straight year where they, I mean, last year they just didn't have picks. This year, like Jacob Peltier, I don't know how you feel about him. I, I've watched them enough where it's like, I think I see it often. You know, he's got skill. He's got talent. I just, I just don't see him as a real good fit for Calgary in terms of the way that they play. And I think he does have some tenacity and things like that. and I'm I the size is one thing I don't I don't think it's that big of a concern um but you know they just didn't have a lot of picks and I felt like there was better there were better options available

them at that slot than than Peltier um and then after that you know Ilya a pretty good value in the third round I do like Josh nodler and and Dustin wolf is is a is a pretty good goaltender in the first round um but still I I feel like you know you got to make your money in that first round and I didn't love that one for them. I think it's a it's a it that was a risk of your pick. Has there ever been a statement with more damning with being praised and pretty good for a goalie with a seventh round pick? Well yeah. I mean, you know, he's he had a great year in the dub this year. That's a lot of disclaimers. Yeah, there's a lot. Pretty good for a goalie as seven. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I like Dustin Wolfe. I he was a ranked goalie I you know in the separate goalie rankings I did. Um,

but he's, you know, he's, he's, he's undersized for the goaltending position and, and there's still some work that needs to be done, but he's a really interesting player for sure. Well, let's, you know, what a winner is teams that maintain cap space. And let's lump the devils into this, obviously, whenever you get the best player in the draft and have the first overall pick. You're just by default, I guess, a winner. You got the best player. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. And, you know, you can speak more to the rest of the draft picks they made. I know they had decent volume, but what I really loved was, and I guess the volume plays into this where they could go out and they traded one of those seconds for Suban, and they still had a couple more picks to play with there. And, you know, with Suban, what's interesting is that I know he just turned 30. He's making $9 million a year for the next three years. And he was struggled this year.

I think he had quite a bit of a down year. And now the year before, he was a Norris finalist. Obviously, the track record speaks for itself. I don't know how much you want to weigh more. The fact that he had one bad year, but he is turning is 30. So this might be the new norm for him or the fact that he has almost a decade worth of NHL dominance. We'll see. But for them, I just thought it made sense because, you know, you have to convince Taylor Hall that he wants to stay in New Jersey.

You have one more year to do that. And their biggest needs were, I thought, dynamic skill, but especially on the blue line. They have Severson, they have Will Butcher. But beyond that, it's a lot of question marks. It's a lot of holes. And adding a guy like Suban of that caliber, I think, and then you bring in Hughes into the mix as well. Hall will hopefully be healthy. You know, you got hisier.

You have all these speedy wingers that I really like that I actually think are a great fit. that'll help Hughes's transition into the NHL from day one. We talk about his NHL readiness, I think playing with guys like Miles Wood and Blake Coleman who are just able to keep up with them speed-wise and love to shoot and love to retrieve the fuck and all you just need to do is just like pass it to them and then they'll shoot and then they'll recover it

and pass it to you back and you wait and give it back to them. I think there's going to be a lot of fun interplay there. So I really like that the devil's just got so much more talented and part of it was obviously just winning the lottery and having the first overall pick. But the other part was like they haven't made a lot of bad contract mistakes. So they had the ability to take advantage of the situation that presented itself and cash in and take advantage of the predator's misfortune. And their team looks a lot better now than it did heading into today.

Yeah, it really does. I mean, I think it just changes the entire outlook. You know, obviously it's going to have to, they're going to have to get the goal tending next year. And we're not sure what that's going to look like, you know. And that's important. But then, yeah, they also have. So they get better in the immune. intermediate term. They also get, you know, Jack Hughes, obviously, but I love their draft, too. The

volume that they had in the draft, not just the volume, but the players they got. Graham Clark is a really skilled player, played for the out of 67s this year. Daniel Misuel is a really good defenseman, as is Nikita Okotok. I'm sorry if I pronounce that wrong, but, you know, they're both, that's good value. Same with Michael Vukovic, who's more of a defensive defenseman and a throwback a bit, but I still like the way that he plays. Um, you know, and Patrick Moynihan, who they got in the sixth round was a, was a top 60 guy on my board. I think he's underrated. Um, you know, he's in, and so they, they did.

So the future and, uh, and, and obviously getting P.K is crazy. So I mean, that, that was, that was just, I'm still kind of wrapping my head around that. I didn't really have time to, to process that today. Yeah. Because I was trying to get ready for the second round, but it was just like, whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Your big takeaway was what does this mean for the 34th overall? Yeah, exactly.

I was like, oh. Okay, well, this will be interesting. Yeah, but that was, that was fantastic. I mean, like, you know, I think that John Heinz is a really good coach, too. You know, I worked with him back in the day. I don't know, he's pretty short. Does he command the respect of his team of his team? I don't know.

He's short. Yeah, I forget where that came from. Friedman talked about how teams were scared to sign to hire him as a coach because he was too short. He's one of the more, like, intimidating. Yeah, that I've ever been around. I mean, yeah. So he's a fantastic. classic coach and and I think he's going to get the most like he's a good coach for jack hughes get more out of jack

hughes um it'll be interesting to see the pk suban uh dynamic with with john hines as well um but i mean he likes skill players he likes players to play fast yeah he wants to play fast that's the devil's like the devils right where it's like slow defense neutral zone trap yeah and it's like they haven't been that they just haven't unfortunately really had the horses they haven't you're right take advantage of that but now they're getting those guys and putting Hughes and Subban into that system. I'm really curious to see how it will. Yeah, it changes everything for them. So, I mean, them and the Rangers are going to be instant watchable teams next year.

And those games are going to be very fun to watch, very fast-paced. Fantastic. The Canucks are winners slash a loser for me. I like that they kept this theme going of making home run picks. I mean, obviously, you know, Pedersen worked out very well for them. Hughes fell into their laps a little bit, but already looks like an absolute. salute steal where they got him last year but cole's in at 10 um we don't need to kind of relitigate his sort of resume as a prospect but i just i i think it was a bit of a surprise the kinnucks went that route

and yeah i like it i'm curious to see how it plays out and then you know in the second round with their first pick today they got niels hoglander who was one of my favorites or yeah uh i don't know i want to say off the radar because in 2019 it's really hard to be off the radar with so much information out there it feels like everyone has the same sleeper picks but i love his game and i think if he was a couple and just taller people would be talking about him as like a lottery pick. Yeah. And so I like the upside there. And this is a team that needs as many of those upside lottery ticket picks as they can.

And then literally like minutes after drafting Hoglander, they trade a future first round pick for J.T. Miller. And I think everyone was just like, what just happened? This is like the Jim Benning roller coaster in a nutshell. It's a great draft pick. I wish we had more of them. Oh, now we have less of them. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I don't know. I think Miller could be a decent fit for them. But yeah, I agree. I mean, it's a pretty rich return. And then, but, but yeah, the whole thing with Pod Colson, I didn't think that he should fall too far. No. I don't think teams needed to be as nervous as they seem to be early on.

I think after the combine, most teams weren't really that nervous anymore. You know, he's... Do you think they were nervous about him coming actually over, like coming to North America? Yeah, that's what I mean. Or a lack of production. What do you think was a bigger concern? I think the contract was. bigger concern because I think anybody that saw him, you know, and saw the season that he had,

it was kind of a wild season. And we've talked about that a bit with, you know, where he's had, he played for three teams in Russia. He played half of his season in North America playing in tournaments, practically. You know, he was never really in the same spot. I don't know how, you know, so I didn't want to look at the numbers too much. And he didn't have a great under 18 world championship, but he's a good defender. He's, he really has great effort. And I think that he kind fits into what Vancouver is trying to do and gives them a guy that can be really difficult to play against on top of being really skilled. So yeah, it's going to be interesting to see kind of how that all plays out. But again, getting Nils Hoglander, I mean, he's got,

who's one of the most skilled guys in this class, one of the more dynamic talents. I mean, they've, they've been doing really well at the draft table these last few years. Well, I was interested about the Put Colson pick because I think, you know, you tie it all together. I think the reason why they went out and traded such a premium asset and a future first for J.T. Miller was, this is Jim Benning's last year of his contract. They haven't made the playoffs in however many years now. There's clearly, like, ownership wants his team to make the playoffs and become relevant again. And so you're trying to get ready-made NHL players to step into your lineup and help. And I don't even know beyond Brock Bess or like J.T. Miller is instantly their second best winger.

So it's clearly an upgrade for the present. And so I guess part of the rationale or part of the kind of confusion about the Bocolzin pick was like not that he's never going to come over, but we know pretty much for sure that it's going to be at least two years. Right. And so I think people are like, is Jim Benning, what are the odds that Jim Benning is even running the Canucks when Vassilii Piccolson makes his NHL debut? It's a kind of crazy thing to think about. But at the same time, pretty much all these guys that you would have gotten in that range, like I thought Alex Neuhoek would have been a great pick there. he's going to be playing college hockey. He's not going to be changing your lineup two years from now.

Like most of these guys are going to take at least two to three years. So that is not a concern for me. And I think eventually he's going to come over and how productive he'll be. We'll see. But I think the playing style is so unique and so interesting and so different than this kind of like stereotypical Russian factor that you think of. Right. Right. I think people are going to like really love watching him play.

I think so too. I think, you know, he just does a lot of. different things really well. And he always gives you the best effort. I don't think there's ever been an issue of him dogging it. I mean, he's always out there. The fact that at the world juniors, he was on, you know, one of Russia's PK units as an underage player for a coach that hates using underage players. I mean, that's the same guy that had the, like, Andre Svechnikov in a fourth line situation the year before. So it's really, you know, it's, I think that the Canucks and really give credit to Jim Benny because he probably had to know like hey maybe I won't be here when this

kid's here but he took him anyway and I do think that the value at 10 is still pretty high I think I had Vassiliate 9 on my final list and at one at midseason he was number three for me so yeah so it's just kind of an interesting an interesting dynamic to think about but I think ultimately the Canucks will be happy with the pick they made there is there any any other teams or any other situations that we should talk about I don't I don't I don't I don't know. I mean, I think, yeah, I think that basically, you know, I think we cover the big ones there. You know, Chicago getting Kirby Doc. I know that there were people that wanted a defenseman, even though they have four really good defense prospects in their system. But yeah, but I thought that they needed a forward more than anything. They don't have anything in their pipeline that's of like that level that Kirby Doc brings.

In your ranking, where did you have Rafael Lavois? I had him at, I had him at 18, I believe, 17 or 18. Yeah. What would you put the odds at Rafael Levois 10 years from now? We look back and he has had a better NHL career than Philip Brobert. It's possible. It's possible. I think it's much more possible than the Oilers would like to think about. Yeah, I know.

Considering where they took the two guys. I think, yeah, and I think, yeah, it's interesting because they did take a couple of guys that had a wide range of opinions on them. And I think that Broberg ultimately will be a fine player for them. It's just a matter. I actually like them a little better than Soderstrum, like them a little better than Mort's as well. And, you know, the fact that, you know, Ken Holland went and got that guy. I think he's a good fit for them.

But, but, yeah, Levois has such upside. It's just a matter of can he get the maturity? Can he bring it every night? Because when he's at the top of his game, he takes over games. But he just doesn't do it enough to where teams were comfortable to pick him in the first round. Yeah, yeah, I get that. All right, let's get out of here.

We deserve a little break. I'm, yeah. Dinner, maybe a nap. Yeah, a couple beers. Yeah, something like that. So plug some stuff where tell people about what you've done, what you've been keeping busy with this weekend, and then when are you starting the 2020 coverage?

You know, 2019 at this point is old news. It is old news. What's happening in 2020, which I have heard is an absolutely loaded draft. Yeah, it's going to be a fun draft for sure. Well, to answer that question, we'll have something next week on the 2020 draft and just kind of a look at some of the top names to know for that draft. Also, everything on ESPN.com,

Our pick-by-pick analysis, a lot of my stuff is usually on ESPN Plus. Our pick-by-pick analysis is not. It's right on our main site. So definitely check that out. That was more for the first round. We did do draft grades, which are on ESPN Plus. And then also we'll have the ESPN on ice podcast, competing podcasts. No, it's not competing at all.

Sister podcasts. Yeah. Brother podcasts. Yeah. Relative podcast. Yeah. Relative uncle podcast. Yeah.

But anyway, yeah. So we've got that. And there's some draft analysis on there as well. So yeah, it's just everything on ESPN.com, Chris M. Peters on Twitter. And yeah, just I, it's been such a fun year. Yeah. Like, I've loved this draft class. I've loved following it.

I love my job. And it's been, it's been awesome to be out here in Vancouver to see you and to see all the great people here. I mean, we got a really cool family out here with the crazy prospect people and everybody else involved. Are you doing a new, was that a new thing where it's like every team's last pick? They're like, we just like, thank Vancouver for being a great. That's pretty much what I was doing.

Stop dragging this seven on. Just make your pick. Can we, you know, we didn't talk about Ray Shiro and like the worst intro to a first overall pick in the history of the draft. That was insane. And he totally did it on purpose too. So got to love Ray Shiro. But anyway.

All right, Chris. Well, this is a blast. You've earned many, many days off. Thanks for taking the time. Thanks for crushing it. Really enjoyed your coverage. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. Thanks, Dimitri.