The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 303: Marc Bergevin’s Workout Plan

Episode Date: June 27, 2019

Arpon Basu joins the show to talk about PK Subban being traded again, the Montreal Canadiens, and the upcoming free agent class. 1:30 The PK Subban trade8:10 The Player Empowerment Era14:40 The pros and cons of long-term contracts24:30 Last year’s surprisingly productive Canadiens30:30 Shea Weber’s aging curve38:20 The modern day powerplay 45:30 Montreal’s shopping list this summer 55:00 Marc Bergevin’s workout planSee acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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and joining me as my buddy, Arben Basso. Arford, what's going on, man? This is great to be here. I'm a big fan of the pod, and here I am, on the PDOC. This is somehow your first time on the show. It's ridiculous. I know we've tried. We've been trying to do it forever and never worked out,

but yeah, now I get to do it live and in person. Which is so much better than on the phone or on the air. I mean, you obviously have your own podcast with Athletic, but I'm sure you also do a ton of radio as well, and it's... Yeah, it's... This is much better. I'm like, I'm looking at you. I know, it's nice.

I'm looking at you and talking. This is great. So we're recording this. It's a Wednesday evening. We're going to run this on Thursday. So I don't think anything too crazy is going to happen in the meantime. But obviously this time of year, literally as soon as we click and record, you know, something crazy could happen. We're going to talk with the haves.

I really want to get into them with you, deep dive them a little bit. But I thought we'd start talking about Subeen, P.K. Suban. I guess now there's three. I'm not much of an authority on Malcolm personally. Jordan, don't get me started. I mean, I can't believe the leaves and qualify him. So, you know, obviously you call him. covered him very closely for, I don't even know, however many years.

Well, whatever, the first X number of years. His whole time in Montreal. Yeah, so many, many years, you got to know him very well. And obviously, now that he's been traded, I think it's just really interesting because I was trying to rack my brain around thinking I obviously haven't been covering the game for very long, and mine history in terms of hockey knowledge doesn't go back that far. I'm not an encyclopedia by any means, but I was trying to think of a player of his caliber that has been traded twice in, well, that.

what I'd say is his prime. He might be in the latter stages of it now at this point. He's clear turning 30. But he's still, I mean, what, two years ago, or I guess the year before this one, he was a Norris finalist. So I think even though he just had a down season, he still clearly can go. I don't know. He had a lot of injuries for the first time in his career.

I mean, there's a lot of mitigating factors in the season he just had for sure. But yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. I'm trying to think of guys back in the day. I mean, I don't know, Dave Andrewsuchak seemed to change teams a lot or more than you more than you would think. The NHL used to be a wilder place, for sure. Well, at first, yeah, there were a lot, it was a bolder place.

You know, GMs weren't scared, and the cap, obviously, handcuffs guys, but GMs generally now are very conservative, which is why when, you know, the original PK trade happened, it was such a shock. You know, you don't see, like, a one-for-one trade like that ever that had no cap duplicate. Like, there was no other reason to make the trade other than he wanted the player and the other team wanted that player.

This is obviously a different case somewhat. But, yeah, I can't think of another. guy who was really, you know, at the top of his game and, you know, let's say, conservatively top ten in his position, but maybe even top five arguably. Well, it's weird because, you know, this trade obviously has a different tenor to it because it seems pretty clear, like the predators. We'll see what happens on July 1st, but basically the fallout of this was like they're trying to clear space.

The Devils were the only team that was willing to take the full nine million per year, and they're doing so to probably get Matt Duchyne, or at least they're going to go for a big name for it. Right. And, you know, anticipating the Roman Yoseycock. Yes, exactly. Yeah, so that was kind of part of it. But it was funny because when I tweeted about it was like, oh, that's all it took for PKCBen.

Are we sure we weren't talking about Malcolm Redort? People were like, like, oh, like you're just like living in the past. Like he's no longer that type of player. And it is interesting. I mean, when a guy does turn 30 and he's coming off a bad season, a lot of it was health-related. But also when you start getting into your 30s, you're probably more likely to have more health-related down seasons. Yeah, for sure. So it's weird.

But at the same time, like we're talking about a guy who, what he has three years left and nine, million per. So if he was a free agent this summer and someone signed him to a three-year $27 million deal, but I don't want to be like, that is a ridiculous commitment. It seems pretty reasonable. Well, look at what Carlson just signed for, and he has the same health concerns. Tyler Myers is going to get $50 million. Yes, exactly. Well, let's not talk about that. That's been really the most interesting part of being in Vancouver all week has been listening to people freak out over the possibility of Tyler Myers getting that contract on the connector. But, you know, I mean, you look at the Carlson deal. You know, I think it's fair to say

Carlson and Suban being pretty similar type players in the sense that they rely heavily on their feet. You know, I mean, their feet need to be going. Their legs need to work. And so, you know, Carlson got the deal that he did. I have no problem with it, but it's a risk. You know, you don't know if he's going to be healthy very consistently over the course of that deal. P.K.'s got back issues, which is its own thing. You know, I mean, there's a lot more risk there because it's hard to predict kind of how it's going to react in certain situations.

But still, it's the first year he's ever had to deal with injuries in his whole career. And so, you know, I think the thing to me, there's two things that stood out to me. A, yes, the predators need to create cap space. Yes, he's their highest paid player. But if they really wanted to keep him, they would have found a way to keep them. You know, he was, the contract is one thing. And I think, you know, I think probably when he looked at his, when David Poil looked at his team and looked at all the contracts, you know, an argument could be made that they should have traded Ryan Ellis. Like maybe that contract's not going to age very well.

there were other options for him to kind of clear some money so you know this was kind of a one-stop shop if you will in terms of you trade to have been nine million bucks it's great but it's you know it's important to realize that there's there are probably other factors at play that David poyle can't just come out and say I mean it's if he was a really hyper-valued member of that team he would have made it work at nine million bucks the other thing is that the devils were the only team willing to take the nine million dollar and you just said it I mean three years $9 million a year for P.K. Suban, you would think teams would be jumping at that. I understand not every team has the cap space to do it, but the fact that the teams that do have the cap space

to do it weren't willing to, I think is somewhat telling as well. So it's why that is, I'm not exactly sure, but obviously we all know. Well, we all know. You know. I know. But it's, you know, it's hard to, it's hard to talk about, but there's, there's this really weird unsaid cloud around PK. Right. And, you know, it's pretty common knowledge that he wore out as welcome to Montreal. I can't say in any authoritative way what happened in Nashville. And so you just wonder from the outside if a similar thing happened in Nashville, and that may be in addition to the fact they had to clear space,

in addition to the fact that he just had an injury relatives, in addition to the fact he just turned 30, that maybe it would sort of help the harmony in the room over there, but I can't say, I can't say. say in any way authoritatively. But my first instinct was that all the other issues with him I think would have been, they could have lived with it because he only had one bad season. There has to be something else. Right. So it's been three full seasons since the trade, right? He was in that over three years. I believe in the Weber's been. Yeah. Yeah. So the first year they made the Stanley Cup final, him and Matthias Al Cole were one of the

best defensive players I've seen in some time. They were playing against everyone's other best players. they were shutting them down, dominating them. Then the year after, he's a Norris finals, and this year, injury plagued down season, and then he gets traded. Obviously, I think the fact that he did have that down season, probably from David Poil's perspective, if there was something going on behind the scenes

and they wanted to get rid of them. It's a perfect excuse. It makes it easier to do it now than a guy who finished third in Norris voting last two years ago at that time. It is. And I don't know, I don't know if, you know, I don't know if it had reached that point. Right.

At that point. But, I mean, honestly, this could, You usually don't do this on the pediocas. I kind of focus on like on ice stuff. And also this could be like a full summer podcast here. He's talking about like the NHL and where it's at in this regard. But it is so funny because I obviously follow like the NBA very closely, for example. And it's booming now and fan interest is higher than it's ever been and it's succeeding and all this stuff.

And it does feel like the disparity or the economy between the NHL and the NBA in terms of like player personality and also how it's embraced by people who cover it, people who follow it. It is just it is very very stark. It is and I think there are a few reasons for that. A, the NBA is populated largely by Americans. I think there's a different American mentality to it. I mean, you just have to look at the controversy after or the reaction after that, you know, the US women's teams game against Thailand and like how in the US, everyone was totally fine with it and here people were completely outraged what happened.

I mean, I think that's classless. Yeah, that really, sums it up, I think that difference. And B, being that in the NBA, you know, you had one player and you go from, like, I mean, LeBron James in his prime, you could be the worst team in the league. You add him, you're a playoff team. Like, that's it. You just need one guy.

He could play 42 minutes a game and score, you know, a 30 or points himself. It's so it's just the nature of the sport itself. Like, you can't do that in hockey. So the nature of the sport in basketball is it tends to gravitate, towards the, you know, the star-making machine, if you will, you know, television and everyone, it's, you know, when, let's say, if the Lakers are playing the Warriors, it's LeBron against Steph, you know, and they don't care about when it really bothers, like Sidney Crosby and Alex Heschen when it got played up as Sid against OVeyer, kind of thing, it bugs the hell out of them,

because that's not what hockey is. And so I think that difference is what you're talking about here with Piquet. I mean, it's just, it's just a different mindset. And it's, you know, it might for us, straight fans and everything, but I just feel like it's just not something that's going to be changed. It's not going to something that's going to change anytime soon because it's so ingrained in the game. And these guys learn it from such a young age that you are a part of the team and the team is so important. And so it's, uh, yeah, I mean, look at Jack Hughes's, uh, interviews after he, uh, got picked first overall of the devil's. It was a lot of like, like deflecting like attention and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, try to do my job.

Absolutely. It's just like, oh, my goodness. I know. It's just a totally, totally different mindset. I don't think Zion Williamson would ever have dealt. Even though Zion Williamson for a basketball player is the most hockey-ish kind of, he's very humble and he doesn't like, but he knows. He knows what he is and what he represents, and there's that knowledge there, and it just makes hockey players uncomfortable. I think Elliot Freeman put it as, like, he called it like an adrenaline infusion or something

in terms of the devils going out and getting P.K. Sue Ben, and I have seen already, like, their fans online are excited. Well, I guess we'll see maybe two, three years from now. now if those same people turn on them. But there's no doubt that even though it is a team game and even though an individual can only do so much, like a personality such as his and the flair with which he plays

and what he brings to the table, I imagine there's much more fan interest from Devils fans right now in terms of buying jerseys, going to the games, tuning in next year. Yeah. And obviously it needs to translate the online results, but it's also, I think, I mean, for them, it was kind of a no-brainer to take on that contract.

Yeah, I think they're at the right time. You know, I mean, they've got to get Hall signed, and so this probably helps with that, I would think. You know, with Ray Sherro seeing that he spoke to Taylor Hall about it and he endorsed it and everything. And you look at the right side of their deal. Like they got P.K. Severson and Battenen right now. Yeah.

That's not bad. I would take that. The infusion of Jack Hughes, the rest of their draft, Heeshier kind of coming into his own at some point. I mean, they've just fast-tracked their journey to, like, relevance. Well, and they also have, I think, like, over 12. 20 plus million in Caps race, I think, so they still have room to get frisky. And also there's an interesting thing here going where I feel like the Metro division

now is kind of wide open a little bit. Like the Capitals and the Penguins last year, I'm not going to write off Sydney Crosby and Alex Hoveitchin, Dave. Yeah, but there's been an arms race in the Metro. Like, I mean, this off season already. We're not even at July 1st, and that whole division is loading up. Right. And we haven't even hit free agency.

It's pretty crazy when you look at all the moves that have been made in that division specifically, you know, with the Rangers getting Truba. So that's kind of a sign that they're going to. start to, you know, might be active on July 1st, but in any case, they're, they're ramping into sort of a contending mode, Philly doing everything that they've done, you know, I mean, it's going to be a really tough division, is those teams that you just mentioned, and maybe the devils who can sort of slip in there. Well, and the Islanders and Hurricanes were playing for Metro Division Supremacy in the second round last year, so. But then, yeah, again, I don't,

I don't see how you can look at that division. It's funny, you know, like everyone's going to forget that I feel really quickly just because of everything that's happened around them in the division like I bet you when the playoff predictions come out in the fall you know they're not going to be on that many people's list depending on what the islanders do here on July 1 but it's there's you know those teams and that's exactly goes back to what we were talking about like they were better than the sum of their parts you know both of them and so but when you look at it from the offseason perspective and just looking at it on paper it's hard to see them competing but that's kind of the beauty of this game.

You know, you can't really win it on paper. Yeah, no, that's true. Is there anything else on Suban or this trade before we talk about the Canadians? I don't know. I don't know. There's one, you know, I guess the one aspect of the trade that from a Montreal perspective is, you know, P.K. is still an extremely polarizing guy in Montreal.

And so, you know, you have people who love them unconditionally and people who hate them unconditionally, and they're not willing to receive any rational argument on one side of the other, they're entrenched on their sides. So, you know, obviously, you know, and I even made a joke like, oh, Shea Weber announced the Canadian pick yesterday and whatever. Like, it's just like that trade came in the forefront. Everyone's like, oh, Canadians won the trade, which obviously is not necessarily true.

But, you know, I think I really felt bad for Shea Weber when that trade happened. Because, and I kind of, you know, I kind of got the sense, like, when I heard all the J.T. Miller talk here in Vancouver, I got the same sense. Like it's not J.T. Miller's fault that Canucks decide to give a first round pick for him. He's still a decent player. It's just not worth a first round pick. And so now he's going to be kind of tagged with that bad trade sort of label. And that's what Che was labeled with until Canadian fans not in play.

And I think more and more the people started to come around once he started playing. Well, I mean, we talk about Tyler Myers. We'll see what he actually does wind up getting. But I imagine that he's going to have that time. Everyone's going to be like, oh, my God, it's the guy who's getting paid this much. Exactly. If someone puts that contract in front of you, you should probably sign it. You sign it, you know, and it's not your fault.

Someone wants to give you that money. And when they do, well, Carl Luzner, we have a case in Montreal. It's not his fault. He's signed that contract, but it's ruined his career. Yeah. Like, it really has. Yeah, no, professionally. I think fiscally, I think.

Yeah, no, fiscally, he's quite happy, but I think if he could tear up that contract, he would. Really? You think so? I really do. It's he is, it hurts him to not play in the NHL. He's convinced he can, and he probably could, but you just can't play at that ticket. Right. And he can't play in the Canadian.

system like that was just a horrible fit for their defensive you know scheme right uh but yeah i mean it's kind of you know i think of luongo and he's you know he said his contract sucks you know and so speaking of the NBA NHL kind of parallels and i don't think uh you know at the next cba carl ulzner is going to be kind of the sticking point for this but i doubt it but it was a great example in terms of like the nuance in in uh player contracts with like the opt-out clauses and the length of term and stuff Some of these NHL deals, it's like the owners and the GMs kind of need saving from themselves where it's like the reward structure is so off where players get drafted. And for whatever, six or seven years, they're horribly underpaid and the team wields all this leverage on them. And these are like their most productive years, as we know, but now based on aging curves.

And then these guys like 27, 28, 29 years old. And then they get rewarded for what they had done in the past. And it's sometimes by a different team who has no emotional. emotional attachment to that and then this guy just comes in and is an absolute albatross for the rest of his career right he's getting passed around buried in the minors and that seems like that can't possibly be the best way no and I think operate as a as a company I think it's gonna change I mean we see it we're seeing it in baseball how free agents are left to linger into the season you know

and I've talked to a few people who are convinced like hockey that's that's coming to hockey like they're gonna you know I think that the second contracts being signed now are are a bit over the top, but that's what they deserve. Like, you're paying for a projection, but they've already given you three years to show what they will do in their prime years, and those are their prime years.

So it makes sense to pay for those prime years. It makes everyone in hockey uncomfortable because it's, you know, it's messing with a system that's favorable to the teams. But it's going to happen more. I mean, you know, this is the year to see that shift in full bloom with obviously, you know, Marner Aho, the glittery RFA class,

but it's going to keep being like that, you know, as these players get drafted and produce on their entry-level contracts, which wasn't the case in the past. You know, you usually got to the end of your entry-level deal. You'd have played probably a season in the HL, one kind of crappy season in the NHL, and then maybe had shown some signs of promise in the third season, and then you sign a cheap deal.

But now, by the time, you know, Austin Matthews, Marner, like their top 10 scores in the league, and they should be paid as such. Yeah, I completely agree. Well, in the Austin Matthews deal was a great example of that in terms of people who were up in arms. Like, oh, I can't believe. Like, they weren't even buying up UFA years, this and that. And it's like, well, he's one of the better players in the league.

And he's also, like, already producing as a 40 goal score. Yeah. So I think it's safe to project. And he was smart on that deal. I'm sure if the Leafs had their way, he'd be signed for eight years at that number. Yeah. And so that was a really good use of leverage by the Matthews camp. And I'd be curious to see how many of these RFA's goals.

the same route because I think that's the way to go hit uFA at the youngest stage possible so you can cash in again but still the leifes get you know probably the five best years awesome as he's going to play so it's a win-win whereas before it used to be a win for the team only and the player kind of got screwed well the tricky thing is I remember someone was telling me this when like the predators signed victor arvinson to whatever deal he's on now he had like one I think good NHL season yeah really good NHL season as a goal score and then they signed him to like one of those like classic predators like six years and like four point something per or something like that off the top of my name.

Yeah, it's a steal of a deal, yeah. And so people were like, if you're a Victor Robertson agent, like what are you doing advising your client to do this considering if he just has like one or two more good years like this, he's going to like almost double that projection in terms of per year of dollars. And then someone came back and was like and told me off the record, I mean on the record but not, didn't want to be named. I was like, I mean, he came from like a pretty, let's say humble upbringing.

and this is like literally life-changing money for him and his family. And when the predators are like, we're going to wield our power here as an RFA to give you this, take it or leave it. Of course he's going to take it because he's not going to risk getting a concussion and being out for a year. David Pasternak had a very similar reaction. You know, now he's grossly underpaid for the player he is, but he doesn't care because he came from abject poverty in the Czech Republic and is just thrilled that he makes

whatever it is he makes, it's in the fives or something, or maybe in the low sixes. But, you know, never could have imagined making that. You know, he wasn't even a high first round pick. The Bruins got him in the 20s or something the year he was drafted. The Canadians had two cases like that. You know, Gallegar is on, Brandon Gallagher is on that deal right now, where he's a tremendous bargain at 3.5 or something like that, 375 maybe. And Max Patcheretti was on that deal for a long time where he was one of the best goals

in the league at a 4.5 clips. So there's something to be said for the... the added security when there's a lot of uncertainty in your career. And in both those cases I just mentioned, Pat Reddy was coming off that gruesome injury where Charo threw him into the stanchion. And Gallagher was coming. Well, actually not coming off,

but he had, just after signing that contract, actually broke his hand twice in the span of the year. So that just, I think that just makes players wake up and be like, you know, this could end any game you step on the ice, it could be over.

And that way they have that money for sure. Well, I mean, yeah, so I'm looking at right now. Gallagher's making 3.75 for this coming year and the next. 30 goals score. And it'll be, what, 29 or 30 years old at the end of that contract? And he will probably then cash in and make up for that on the back end.

Exactly. It'll be funny to see if Canadians are the ones left holding that bag or if it's going to be somewhere else. Well, you know, I mean, if you're looking at the cat friendly page, you know, they have their D-Day is summer of 2021. Right. When him, Dano, Petri, Tatar, caught Kenyemi-Mee pailing, they have all these guys all up at the same time.

And it's funny, like, you talk about Windows to Win. Like no one would think the Canadians are in a window to win right now. That would be ridiculous. But they are because that's coming. And so like they have to do things to sort of optimize their team right now, you know, not to mention the fact that Shea Weber and Kerry Price keep getting a year older every year. But that summer of 2021 puts them in a position where they have to, they really have to sort of take advantage of Kotkenyami being on an entry-level deal and providing meaningful minutes.

If paling, if Suzuki, they have all these young kids who are going to be coming. their contract set up forces them into a window that maybe they're not necessarily ready for. Look at you, just transitioning so smoothly to the Canadians. Let's take a quick break here to hear from my sponsor, and then we're going to dive fully into the Montreal Canadiens. Sponsoring today's episode of the Hockey PDO cast is Seek. Now that we are so, so close to the offseason, obviously there's no games going on right now, but we had the NHL draft.

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So download the SeekyCap today and use the promo code PTO for $10 off your first purchase. That's promo code PeeC. for $10 off your first purchase. Now let's get back to the show. All right, so the Montreal Canadians. You know what's funny? When I was with SportsNet, I was, you know, not contractually obligated, but recommended,

advised the focus of it. So do the Canadian teams? You know, to cover them a bit more closely than I would at Columbus Blue Jackets, I'd say. You know, now that I've been freelancing and now with Yahoo Sports, I'm kind of just, I can do whatever I want realistically. So I haven't talked that much about the Canadians on the podcast, other than when I have Andrew Berkshire on, and he kind of gives me his, uh, his,

home or take or whatever it is, uh, take of the day. Yeah, he is, he is, he is, he is, he certainly is. Um, no, I love Andrew. I'm going to have one on Friday to preview the UFA class, but, um, they were kind of like a weird, like, a pet favorite of mine last year, where I remember in the summer, last summer, I was looking at their roster. And it was very easy to kind of make fun of them and poke just,

jokes and be like, oh, this team's going nowhere. But what I saw was a lot of guys who were just coming off of like historically bad shooting percentage seasons and seemed very unlucky. And then this past year, I mean, Max Domey's kind of like the poster child of that where like he almost had as many empty net goals as actual goals before that. And then last year he goes off, regresses. I mean, even Drew Ann might not necessarily be what he, we hope he would be coming into the league, but he had a better season.

So on and so forth. All these guys kind of stepped up a little bit and scored more towards, what we'd expect from them. And so there was really fun to watch them kind of live up to that. Obviously, they fell short of the postseason, but it's weird because I came out away from that year thinking, all right, there's something here to build off of and kind of project forward positively. Now, as you said, with the window coming up here to make some really critical decisions

and figure out what this team's going to look like in the future coming up sooner rather than later, there isn't too much time for moral victories here for a team that hasn't made the playoffs and back-to-back seasons. And I imagine wants to and has feeling quite a bit of pressure. from their local fan base. But, you know, heading into next year, it's really tough because you look at that Atlantic division. We talk about how the metro is wide open now.

The Atlantic is basically the opposite where until proven otherwise, there's going to be those three teams at the top in some order. So if you're Mark Bergevan, knowing that whatever, summer 2021 or whatever, you have to make all these decisions, you don't necessarily want to fully commit right now to this roster and then kind of, you know, bind yourself contractually. But at the same time, you do have a good team. Yeah. want to show some results and who knows if you're going to be around by 2021 if you keep losing

and missing the playoffs, it's a really tight, kind of tough tightrope for him to balance in this, especially this summer, I feel like. Yeah, and it will be next summer as well. I mean, basically, you know, I mean, his sort of like abject refusal to sort of tear it down and go at it that way, which I was pretty critical of at the time, but I think it was the right way to go because I don't think tearing it down in the NHL works quite as well as the NBA or even in baseball, where teams do it regularly. it bears fruit. Whereas in this case,

you could tear it down. Like, Ottawa might be stuck in this mud for a long time. You know, like, it could be argued, Edmonton's still not out of it. So, I mean, it's, it's not so cut and dry. And so the way he's gone about it, like just because, and basically he's been forced to do it because of Price and Weber, because they're there, he can't really get rid of them,

or get rid of his not the right term, which was, I think, sort of poorly used recently. But, you know, he had no desire to trade them. even if he had a desire to trade them, he's not really able to. I mean, Weber, he could if he wanted to, but I don't see him doing that. They just named him captain, and he's a good player. So, I mean, I really don't, I really think he's a type of guy who might age well. And so it's a tightrope because you're adding all these young players.

You're going to have to make calls on guys who are hitting an age where you don't know what they're going to give you. You know, like they're all hitting that, that high 20s, low 30s number. Like Jeff Petrie, we were talking before about defensemen who need their feet. Yep. Like, Jeff Petri's a guy who needs his feet, you know? And so when his contract's up, I think he'll be 32. That's in 2021. Tatar will be in his early 30s.

Gallagher will be around 30. So do you keep those guys? Because you're going to have to pay Kotkeny. I mean, if everything goes according to plan, by then he should be their number one center. who knows what his ultimate ceiling is, but like Andrew Shaw at the end of the year used a really good, really interesting comparison I hadn't thought of,

and he compared him to Ryan Getslap. And I sort of looked at it, and I could kind of see it. He's the past first kind of guy. He's going to be a pretty big guy when he's that age. So does he hit it big contractually that summer, probably, if he goes on that progression?

Yeah, I think that thing is, are hoping he hits that. Yeah, absolutely. And then you'll have like you'll have paling that same year. So if he turns into like a high end two way guy, like I mean, you know, when Berserjave was was talking about Ryan O'Reilly last offseason and the Sabres wanted paling as part of a much larger package, you know, I could see him reasonably saying, okay, well, by the time my team is any good, I might already have Ryan O'Reilly right here. Yeah, like this guy. Yeah.

So if that's the case, if Suzuki kind of hits his ceiling, then all of a sudden you're looking at all these bloated contracts and they're going to need to be given way sooner than expected. just like what Toronto's going through right now. So it is a tightrope in the sense that you want to develop guys properly and you want to slowly integrate the young guys, but you have to win soon. You have all these contracts coming up. You have a goalie who's getting older. You have a number one D who's getting older.

There's all these variables that he has to manage. And to me it's going to be fascinating to see how he does it because there's no clear path to making this team competitive. But so far, you know, after one year of probably the worst season in franchise history, pretty much everything he did turned out good. But the next few weeks here are going to be critical. I mean, there was news today of the Canadians meeting with Matt Duchesne. I'm of the mind that if they signed Matt to Shane, that puts everything I just mentioned,

it puts it out of whack. And so I don't know what's going to happen there. I doubt Matt DeShane's going to sign with them, but still the fact he's actually looking at guys like that, I find very interesting. I do want to circle back to, you know, you mentioned, Weber there and sort of how he's going to age and keeping him as the captain of the team, the leader of the team, and still expecting him to be a good player in years to come. I think, like, my concern is when he's been on the ice, he's been good, and we haven't

necessarily seen a deterioration of play. I think, you know, you mentioned Petrie and, you know, Carlson and these guys that rely on their speed and their skating and elusiveness. Certainly as you get older, that's going to dry up, and then if you don't have anything to fall back on, whereas with Weber, he was never necessarily the most fleet of foot guy anyways. No, that's it. So, you know, he kind of focuses more.

on like his positioning and his physicality and obviously his shot from the point. The thing that does worry me is, well, he played 26 games in 1718, 58 games last year. Right. And it does feel like he's starting to like physically deteriorate a little bit in terms of, like the injuries he's been having, right? I think the knee thing is whatever, but then like the foot stuff and that does kind of concern me. And it's fair. I would say that prior to that he was remarkably healthy. It was ridiculous.

The only games he missed were games that. they sat him out because they'd already made the playoffs. And so the foot thing, you know, he won't come out and say it, but I'm pretty confident that that was just mismanaged by the Canadians. Like that, they found out after the fact, after treating it without surgery, that they were going to need surgery. Then he's still recovering from that surgery. He goes in for what was billed as a scope to just clean out his knee.

He goes under. He wakes up and he's, you know, he's had his knee rebuilt. It's like, this is a robotic leg. Wow, it's crazy. Like, I mean, just think of it. You know, I remember he couldn't freely talk about it, obviously. But imagine going under anesthesia thinking you'll be out for two weeks and you wake up and you're out for six months. It's crazy.

It's unreal. So what, to me, the Shea Weber question will be resolved this season because he will have a full off season to train, which you did not have last year. He was off for a full calendar year. And not only that, not only was he off for a full calendar year, he came back and he played immediately and was playing 25. minutes a night immediately. So in February, that caught up to him. He won't admit it, but it's clear that it did. He played, you had a very bad month, and it was visually obvious on the ice that he

was not able to keep up even for him. So this offseason, having a chance to train properly and train for his new reality, which I think Eric Carlson had to go through when he tore his Achilles. You know, Brenna Gallagher had to do it when he broke his hand twice. it's it's something that he's going to have to do so we'll know very pretty quickly I think like we'll know by like November what kind of Shea Weber is going to be right for the next little while but I'd say there are mitigating circumstances to two injuries we just mentioned in the sense that they were both kind of misdiagnosed grossly and so so I don't know if that's a sign of like a physical

breakdown if it is then obviously the canaaners are in trouble and she and she himself is in trouble, but if it's not, like I'm just, I'm just curious to see him after a full off season because I think that we'll see a much better version of him at the beginning of next season. Well, we'll see what they do this summer. And, you know, we can kind of spin this into a conversation about the unrestricted free agent market and what we expect the Canadians might do. And we talk about Dushain there a little bit, but unless they bring someone else in right now, and it's always tricky in terms of signing unrestricted free agent defensemen, as we talked to

talking about Tyler Myers and how much she's going to get paid. A lot of these guys will probably, you'll probably going to pay like, well, Jake Gardner being, $0.25 on the dollar or whatever, at least for these guys just to get them to come to your team. And so that's kind of always a tricky way to do business. But at the same time with the way. Plus Montreal has to overpay UFA. Yep.

That's just a fact. Yeah. But the way they're constructed, they're basically banking on Weber to be Shea Weber for like 75 plus games. Because otherwise, he's missing a bunch of time again. Like, I love Jeff Petrie, but he does not have much help beyond that. No, he wouldn't. I like Brett Kulak, but like, we're talking, you know, relative stuff here

and expecting some of these guys to move up the lineup is going to lead to a lot of the defensive issues that we saw last year. Probably, yeah. There's no doubt. I mean, but, you know, I mean, the same could be set of pride. Like, basically those two guys are they two oldest guys, essentially, you know, not counting Nate Thompson. Right. I mean, those two guys, they're two oldest players, and they are the two guys that they can least afford to have injured. Really.

I mean, Petrie would probably be. a pretty big blow as well. Yeah. But they can't, they can't lose price as we saw the result of that. And so, you know, they're both guys, you know, price was healthy all year last year, but hasn't been healthy of late. Could be argued that he, you know, the wear and tear of his career is starting to show on him as well.

And so, yeah, I mean, they are, they have put an inordinate amount of their eggs into the basket of two of their oldest players. So it's like it's I was much higher on the Canadian before you said that But having said that Okay the one I guess the one counter to that Is at the beginning of last season

Price wasn't all that good Weber wasn't there And they more than stayed above water You know they remained competitive Until Webb you know which was the goal Like the goal was to be in a playoff spot When Weber got back and they did that You know where it was back in the beginning of December

They were in the game You know they were still there They were playing remarkably well So they were overcoming a price that was less than his best version of himself. They were overcoming no Weber, and they were doing it because of the way they play. And, like, Clod Julian, I don't think got enough credit for what he did last year. He changed the way he coaches radically. The irony being that he changed the way he coaches to basically go towards the style Bruce Cassidy uses in Boston.

So he was replaced because he didn't coach that way by a guy who does coach that way. And now whenever you hear Claude Julian talk about his team or whenever you watch them play, you could take a Bruce Cassidy postgame explanation of his team and just plop it about the Canadians. They play a very similar style. So that style and the fact that they're so deep up front, no superstar forwards up front, but a lot of depth in terms of an ability to forecheck teams into the ground, use their speed in the neutral zone to completely shut it down, and just prevent teams from playing in their own end.

And they did that to great effectiveness. And that's how they overcame Carrie Price getting off to a slow start. That's how they overcame Weber's absence. So if they continue doing that and they continue inserting these young guys. Like, look at the guys who are going to be coming. You know, Suzuki is a guy who could totally do that. I mean, he is a decent skater. Skating is not, but his brain is tremendous.

And so if they keep incorporating younger guys who can play that style, maybe they could overcome having a bit too much reliance on those two, well guys because their style is sort of uh sort of trumping that in a way and you know you mentioned that's how they overcame all the injuries and all the question marks that's how they won my heart because i really as the year went along i really made a point of watching the canadian as much as i just enjoyed the way they play like it's like it is the epitome of everything that is beautiful both the modern nchel where it's like rolling four lines relentless speed pace like not just dumping the puck out whenever like actually trying to do stuff in the

the neutral zone transitioning back and forth like it was beautiful it was really fun to watch and obviously I mean they wound up finishing the year I think this would surprise people as a top five 515 scoring team I think they were actually yeah if then it was like the you know the usual suspects like lightning the sharks I think the flames and maybe like the caps or something where the leaps I finished ahead of them at 515 scoring right the problem was that they were 30th on the power play yes and this is the only thing that kept them out of the playoffs so I wanted to get into with you because obviously with them and I think with like the predators

it's these teams that like in theory have personnel like it's not like you look at them and like this team is devoid of skill I understand why they're not scoring on the power play but whether it's a structural thing or whether it's like a philosophical thing of what they're trying to accomplish or what is I don't know from watching it like what in

your mind was the biggest problem because from my perspective it did seem like that was one area where they missed maxed patch ready a lot where they didn't really replace him with a trigger man yeah And Alex Galchernic. That's true. Actually, more so than Patcheretti.

Alchenio was a guy who really thrived on the power play, you know, that right face-off dot, one-timer guy, that you could play opposite Weber. Really what happened was, you know, you look at the predators and you look at the Canadians. So two different situations, but the predators, for years, since Weber was there, have overly relied on point shots. And, you know, I think many studies have shown that too many shots from the point

is not a good thing. But they've stuck to it. They don't care. The Canadians, for most of this season, you know, from the time he came back to the time, I'd say, in March, we're waiting for Shea Weber to come and rescue the power plate. And it's, that's fine. His shot is a legit weapon on the power play. Absolutely. But, you know, they had him leading breakouts, not his strength. Right. They had him, it removed Jeff Petrie from the top unit, which last year, the power play turned around when Weber got hurt. I mean, last year being like two seasons ago. You know, the power play was pretty bad until Weber got injured.

And then the only good thing that happened that season is the power play wound up being pretty good. They, the only adjustment that Canadians made on the powerplay until March was just bouncing Jonathan Drouin into different spots. And so he never got comfortable in any one spot. And that was just the only thing they could think to do. And I remember talking to Drouin about it one time. time and I was like, correct me if I'm wrong, but basically the only adjustments this team

has made on the power play is moving you around. And he just kind of looked at me and smiled. He's like, I'm not, I'm not answering that question. So it's, you know, I mean, I think Kirk Muller is in charge of the power play. Clude Julianne as the season went on, started to get more involved. They brought in Dom Dusharm, who has a long history of being a good power play coach with both the Canadian junior team and in junior in Halifax. But they were just really slow to make adjustments and really slow to sort of embrace. But at the end of the season, they took Weber off the breakout. He was not allowed to touch the puck until the puck was in the offensive zone, and the power play got better. And like, you know, adding a guy like Jordan Wheel made a big difference

because he's kind of a savvy puck handler and makes quick decisions. Really sneaky good acquisition, by the way. But, you know, and really had an impact on the power play. So I think if they can carry that realization over to this season, or next season, I should say, where, you know, Shea Weber is good to have on a power play, but he should play in the OV spot. Like, that should be his role. Yeah, absolutely. Put him in the Evchkin spot.

Don't have him touch the puck when it's coming up the ice. Let him float around there and just crank one-timers. And all they need is the backstrum on the other side. That's the only thing. But you think, like, because I remember, you know, you're speaking of all the adjustments and how they were moving Drew on around. For a while, I remember I'd watch the games,

and they had Druon on the point, I feel like. And I was just like, this doesn't make a lot of sense. Like they should be having them closer to the net so that he can use it. And then they put him on the goal line. Yeah. They put him like too close to the net. Yeah, exactly. Like it's like it's, they used him literally in every spot imaginable.

Yeah. The other thing that I think could help is, you know, they were reluctant to put Kockenemy on the power play. But it is something that he did with great effectiveness. His only year in Liga in Finland, you know, he was 17 years old, but he was playing the half wall on the power plane was very, very effective doing it. You know, five on five, you had more trouble, obviously. Right. But, you know, they were reluctant to do that for any stretch of time. And when they did it, they used him as a trigger man.

And, you know, he does have a decent shot, but it's not his best tool. And because Drouin is the de facto quarterback, because all he's, you know, drawing, all he's really done in the NHL is be a really good power play player. You know, I mean, that's really been where the bulk of his production has come. And, and at five on five, really, he leaves you kind of wanting numbers, So, you know, they need to find a way to incorporate Khokaneh into that because everyone I spoke to about his time in Finland said the power play is he's really good on the power. Right. And make that realization about Weber. The thing about having Shea Weber on your team is that, you know, sometimes you get caught in the aura of Shea Weber. It's just kind of like, and he has an aura about him. There's no doubt about it. But, you know, it's hard to admit that, you know, you need to make decisions where he needs to. to be dialed back a bit.

Yeah. And that really, really was the case this year with the play. It's not even necessarily, like obviously, you know, the breakout and some of the specific stuff

is more specific to Shoe Weber. But I remember, like, when Jason Garrison during his prime, when the Knit's went out and brought him here, and everyone was just, like, so infatuated with a big shot from the point,

and you're just thinking, like, okay, like, the Siddines will just pass it to him and he'll shoot hard. That's right. And it's like, yeah, but on the power play,

you should probably aim for, like, those grade A slot chances because you have more space and you have, have the puck and the other team has one less defender out there. So why are you shooting from far away? No matter how hard you shoot and the hurricanes don't even get me started on that with like how many Justin Falk wild shots. Oh God. Yeah. And it's like it is a bit of a blessing and a curse because when it

when it connects and when it looks good and goes in, it's like, oh my God, like this guy can score 25 goals like that. But it's like no, the map actually suggests that he probably will not. Exactly. But you look at like the heat maps from from Weber's time in Nashville. You know, a lot of his power play goals were scored right at the top of the left circle. Like, but on the circle and, you know, a handful from the blue line, but usually the closer he crept down. Right. The more effective he was, which, you know, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. But the main thing being that they've never found a way, and it was the same problem with Subban, actually.

So we've gone over multiple coaches, multiple people running the power play. When Suban was there, teams would cheat over to him on the power play. So they didn't want to let him beat them. So they would basically play three on four otherwise. Never found a way to take advantage of that. One game, I want to say it was two years ago, they were playing the Bruins. Brad Marshall was literally glued to Shea Weber on the penalty kill

to the point where Shea Weber left the zone. And Marshall followed him into the neutral zone. So they never found a way to take advantage of that either. And that's, you know, a lack of other shooters. And that is a bit of a personnel issue, but it's also, to me, a big-time tactical issue, coaching-wise, that they've never been able to fully sort of monitor. monetize having one of the most feared shots or probably the most feared shot in the league on their power play.

Well, that's why the news that came out today about Duchenne visiting there, like, it seems like a bit of a weird fit because while he is, like he profiles as a skilled player who also has been above an average shooter throughout his career, he's also never been a guy who's really produced in the power play. And he's much more of a five-on-five score. And obviously, you can never have enough five-file-five scoring, but it just seems like- That's not the problem. Yeah, of course, of course. But it does seem like in terms of, especially, you know, if you don't have infinite supplies to tend to your roster right now, especially what he's going to cost, it just seems like a bit of a weird fit. Like I thought a guy like Ryan to Zingle or something at a much cheaper price would make a lot more sense. But you're right.

I mean, a lot of these guys are going to come. They're not going to settle for two-year terms, especially with the impending lockout. A lot of these guys are going to want a four or five-year deal with a bunch of signing bonus money up front so that they're covered. Yeah, and then that creeps into their window. but obviously, you know, I mean, there are other moves that can be made between now and 2021 to sort of accommodate for that. And frankly, you know, a lot of the guys I mentioned, you know, the Canadians might have already decided that they're just going to walk at that point. I don't know. So it's, but I agree.

The Duchenne thing is a weird fit because of that 2021 Armageddon date and because there are other needs to be addressed. You know, I would be really focusing my energy on on finding a left offense, someone to play with. with Shea Weber, which has been the eternal problem since he arrived. They've never had an appropriate partner for him, except for this little, you know, six-week window where Andre Markov was his partner. Right. They've never had someone appropriate to play with him. He spent a lot of time with Alexei Emlin. Victor Mette has been his most common partner for the last two seasons. There's no one on the UFA market, really, aside from Jake Gardner, and even Jake Gardner has a whole bunch of red flags attached to him. But still, he's the most

appropriate guy to put there but you know the trade market you know if if gossis spares available like i'd be focusing on that and everyone's talking about the rfas like no one talks about ivan provarov who's who's not signed philly has a lot of caps space you're not gonna you're not going to you're not going to steal him from them they'll match but man you know if there's there was word you know there's there are teams checking in our rfas that's an rfay that's i would check in on if i was if i were them i don't think they can get them from them but man would he'd be perfect to play next to she whoever well he would i actually do like the i I didn't even really think about what the Gosses bear fit, especially with how much, like, it seems like they've soured on him a little bit there, and then they went out and brought in a bunch of guys.

Yeah, I think I thought something, Chuck Fletcher's saying something today where he has, he has no trades cooking right now. So I don't know how sincerely he said that. Well, he's not going to be like a, you know, for sale sign. But, and especially, I mean, he excels at the breakout. Like when he came into the league ever, like, wowed about his, like, edgework and his skating and in a neutral zone. He'd be perfect. Yeah. Well, he's basically a bigger version of Victor Method.

It's kind of the case. I mean, like, Victor has the same strengths. That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about the community. I'm a big fan. Yeah. I really, I think he's actually a really good fit with Shea, but he's just not going to be, he's probably not ever going to be sort of an offensive difference maker,

you know, but his, I think his tools that everyone assume would make him a really good offensive player, actually serve him better in the defense event. And there were times this year where, I mean, I'm not even kidding, when Shea was not playing that well, when in his own end, Victor was the one carrying the water. Yeah.

Defensively. But the tough thing is, because obviously, I presume how much you're paying him and his stature in the league that you want to have Shea Weber out there as much as possible, which then if he's paired with Victor Mente,

it means like you must be comfortable also with having Victor META out there more than any of your other defensive. Sure. I mean, you know, he can make up some minutes on the penalty kill. Like, I mean, that's the real, I guess the real difference in minutes

that you get. with him. He plays a lot. He's still a very effective penalty killer, but, you know, that's always been the issue. It's, it's crazy that we're going into like year four of this, where who will play with Shea Weber is the number one question mark on this team. And, and there's no clear solution out there for the Canadians to acquire other than via a trade that we haven't really thought of yet. I mean, I have a long standing theory. There just aren't enough good NHL defensemen to go around. Yes. Or we're just horrible at evaluating, and there's like lost gems that are playing overseas and in the H.

There probably are because quite frankly, Brett Kulak was great when he came over. And so he was stuck in a log jam in Calgary, rightfully so. I do not blame the flames for what happened to Brett Kulak. But still, he has a skill set that fits, that fit the Canadians really well,

that fit the way the game is being played really well. And it's not like he was a tiny guy who got, you know, prejudice because of that, like a META or a gag or whatever. But, you know, he's a guy who just slipped through cracks and didn't have,

didn't have an avenue to a top six role in Calgary and the Canadians got him. So it's, and he's been, he was really objectively, really good, you know, numbers wise. Yep, he was. He was incredible. Yeah. Like, unbelievably good. I know, I don't know if he could do that again, but it was insane. Mark Dumont was all over a heel.

He loved him. Yeah. He wanted him to win the Norris. Yeah. Yeah. I went a little too far. No, I remember Kulak, because I think, I believe he played here for the Vancouver Giants coming up. So I, uh, yeah, I got to see a little.

little bit of them. Yeah, it's, it's tough. I feel like, you know, the, the tone of our conversation here is obviously it's kind of like a wait and see. And I think whether it is signing a Jake Gardner, whether it is trading for someone, I'd still like to see a couple more dominoes fall here. Right. At the same time, when I do, I, I, there is a bit of a glass ceiling. Yeah. With this team just because of those three other Atlantic Division teams. And we're talking about, you know, the Panthers might go out again. Forget the Atlantic Division teams. I mean, we were just, we were talking about the Metro earlier. The reality, the Canadians

reality because of those three Atlantic Division teams is that they're going to have to get in over one of those metro teams as you saw this year you know two metro teams got the two wild cards the Canadians were right there but will they be right there again with the way teams are loading up I mean you know Columbus realistically will be worse this year but otherwise you know Carolina will probably be better because their young players will be that much better and all the teams you know Philly missed last year and I don't know if they're going to miss again so it's going to be and this is why I imagine Mark Bruggeon is interesting in a guy like Matt Dushan.

I mean, he must feel pressure to do something that will allow his team to be comfortably in the playoffs. Because one thing, the schedule came out the other day. In March and April, the Canadians have 15 games. 10 of them are on the road. Six of them are in the West, like Western time zones, you know, either the Central or the Western. Right.

You know, they play seven Western Conference teams in that time. The schedule is really hard. So they have to be pretty comfy in a playoff spot by the end of February. And it's going to take or maybe, you know, I'm actually not convinced it's going to take this, but I can see Mark Bergeny looking at his team and being like, I need a difference maker to make sure that we are with those three teams, that we're one of those three teams in the Atlantic instead of one of those three teams, which logically thinking there's no way you can see that happening unless the least,

really take a dive and that this whole Marner thing kind of really messes up and losing Gardner and everything else that might happen this this off season. But still, that's what the Canadians have to do. Like, that's really what they have to do to make sure they make the playoffs. And I don't think missing the playoffs is really an option for them. Well, here's a fit for you that I like it. It involves an indivision trade, which we rarely see in which will, you know, that's a whole different kind of wherever.

But I remember at last year's trade line, I really wanted to see them go and get Mike Hoffman. Right. I really like that from like a shot power play perspective. It seems like as a winger would feel what he needs. Can't imagine the price would be too high. If the Panthers go and sign our Temi Panarin for $11 million a season or whatever this summer. They have so much investment in those guys. They have Hubert O. Dattanov.

They're already like they have a wing depth. Yeah. It feels like he could be had. I think he was on the block last year. He was on the block before the deadline. That seems like a group. I would actually rather him, especially for the acquisition cost than signing Matt Dushane to do. Right.

There's a bit of a PKK element with Mike Hoffman, though. There's a bit of a Suban-Nish kind of thing going on there. because as soon as I saw that the Panthers were considering trading it, I was like, what is up with this guy? Forget the stuff that happened with Carlson and his wife. Obviously, that was really messed up. And no one really knows all the ins and outs of that story. But, you know, A, why didn't the sharks want to keep him when they acquired him?

Why did they have no interest in keeping him? Like, they traded for him and they instantly, they already had a deal set to go to the Panthers. It's just, you know, I don't know. I mean, it's Mark Berservain is not the type to acquire a guy who has, that perceived baggage around him. That's really not his way. Right. I would, because you're right, he's a perfect fit.

He can play in the right circle and he's got to shoot the hell out. Killer shot. And having him opposite Weber would be great. Yeah, it would be absolutely perfect for their power play. I just don't see it happening. Have you, um, that was a great sigh. I'm just trying to come up with constructive ideas that help. Yeah, I've thought about it.

And honestly, I even floated it before the deadline. I thought it would be a great fit. But it's just, I think there are probably character questions, let's say, that might impede the communities from doing that. I get it. Have you thought about or pitched the idea of like going for, like working out with Mark Vergerivant for a week and documenting your trials and tribulations? A funny thing with Mark Virgerivay. No. The answer to that question is no.

He was looking slightly less swollen at the draft. He was, yeah. And the greatest thing, so last year, we, Mark Antoine Goday and I, you know, my teammate at the Athletic in Montreal, so we had a sit-down with Mark Berger-Ve just prior to the opening night in Toronto. And so the Canadians were really good about it. They got us, they arranged for us to have like one of those platinum suites that are sort of under the stands in Toronto.

It was empty. Got him for like a half hour was great. So it was right after that photo came out of Mark Bergerand from the golf tournament. These massive pipes in the polo, right? So we sort of started by talking about that. And he's like, yeah, that was Photoshopped. And I was like, oh, really? Yeah, you think so?

He's like, my arms are way bigger than that. So there's a weird thing going on with the Canadians because he's built like that. you know, director of player personnel Marty LaPoint has jacked out since he stopped playing so he is in a similar build

Trevor Timmins their director of scouting who's officially the assistant GM similarly jacked out Shane Trilla obviously massive and so like there's so many prospects at the combine

who are like that is the most intimidating team to talk to is the Canadians because you got these massive jacked out dudes and you're just kind of this wimpy scrawny kid at 18 or 17 talking to these guys.

It's like, it's scary. But yeah, but anyhow, he had a sense of humor about that photo. And I thought that was a funny little way to start the interview. That interview was great. He was really open and frank. And that's where he sort of revealed that he refused a package, you know, built around Ryan Paling for Ryan O'Reilly. I was stunned.

I couldn't believe he said that. But it's, I think it's really a telling moment. of how he wants to go about building this team. And he even suggested at the draft that he had an offer for the 15th pick straight up for a player that he could have added to his roster. He said no. I don't know what player it was in a word team, but still he is committed to this building through the draft thing.

But as we've seen, building through the draft is not what it used to be because these guys get paid really quick. Yeah. Well, I mean, everyone's worried about Cole Calfield size and how it transits at an NHL level. I think if they just put him on the Mark Bird. You can let him just work out of my questions, man.

He's going to be looking pretty thick and swollen in a whole time. It's interesting that he mentioned the Ryan O'Reilly package and stuff. I do wonder about that because obviously, you know, sometimes a lot of these trades get bandied around for one GM to another in more like a hypothetical fashion. It's not like, you're not texting like, okay, this is what I would give you, this is what you give me, who says no. Yeah, no.

But it's like, but I always wonder, it's like, I guess if you like formally, not formally, but if you like put out an offer there, is it kind of like an unspoken agreement? from the other GM that he won't talk about it publicly to like not embarrass you. I think it probably is. I don't know what motivated him to reveal that, but, you know, we went. He probably wanted to prove that he's active in doing stuff. Sometimes when jams aren't making moves, fans are like, can this guy do something?

And it's like, well, he's probably trying. But when you ultimately look at the deal, like Ryan Paling is basically the Tage Thompson in the package they got. So it's realistic in that sense, like, because the Sabres went out and got a pretty similar prospect in Thompson. Right. So, but yeah, it was, you know, I even forget why it came up. I don't remember what we asked.

But I think it was probably something along the lines of, you know, how do you get this team back to relevance? I mean, because really, if you think of the context of that conversation, they hadn't played a game yet. They had a good preseason, but no one expected them to be any good. Realistically, I didn't. And so the tone of the questions was really like, how. How do you get the Canadians back to competitiveness?

And, you know, that was kind of its answer, you know, that it's kids like Ryan Paling that are going to get us there. Well, and they, I think they're kind of universally regarded as having one of the top, however many prospect pipelines in the league. A lot of it is just a value, volume perspective of like they're making so many. I mean, like, Paling was the MVP at the World Juniors. Alexander Romanov was named Best Defenseman at the World Juniors. They just added the best goal score in the draft.

Nick Suzuki was the MVP of the OHL playoffs. it's not as if, you know, I think, objectively speaking, you look at their prospect, the top of their prospect pool, it's pretty damn good. And so, and it has a lot of depth now because, you know, they've picked 10 guys in Vancouver. They had 11 guys last year in the draft. So they've increased depth. And the funny thing is, you know, the one hole they had not only on the big club, but even in the pipeline with left defense, they went on a run of five straight left defensemen in the draft.

Right. After Caulfield, they picked five straight guys. Well, I feel like they wanted, they were linked to Cam York. They're quite a bit, but obviously he wanted to pick before them. But Caulfield had 15 is great value, so I don't think they're too sad. It's really interesting what would have happened if the fires didn't take York. Yeah. Because I think the GM would have lobbied for York. Yeah.

And the scouting director would have lobbied for Caulfield. And so there might have been a timeout if that had happened. All right, man. Let's get out of here. Plug some stuff. What are you working on? What can people look forward to in the offseason from you? Well, you know, we're, we got, obviously, we had the, the expo stuff that kind of fell in our lap, so we're going to be kind of keeping an eye on that.

The reason why I'm still here in Vancouver is, you know, I spent some time with Brendan Gallagher. I feel like no one's ever really told his story in depth. And so, you know, I spent a lot of time with his family and some of his friends. So that was very valuable just before coming here to do this. I was with his mom for two hours. So that's, that'll be coming out, either at some point this summer or in the fall. and, you know, I mean, the one thing, and then, and now I'm heading actually to Colonna to watch

Josh Georges and Blake Como's big celebrity softball game. Nice. And so, you know, so I'm hoping to get some other guys, you know, Shay Weber and Carrie Price will be in that game, so I'm hoping to get some other guys. So, yeah, we should have some good stuff coming up, and obviously we'll be all over July 1st. So you could be like standing like by the first baseline

with a timer, timing, Shay Weber running down the line to see how. he's looking mobility-wise. I'm actually just there to make sure he doesn't blow his mouth. That's really my purpose. That's funny. All right, man, well, this is a blast. I'm glad we finally got to do this. It was years in the making.

Absolutely. It lived up to the hype. Enjoy the rest of your summer. And let's definitely not wait this long again to do that. No, I can't wait for the next time. The Hockey PEDEOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud. At soundcloud.com slash hockey.

PDEOCast.