The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 304: Money Talks

Episode Date: June 28, 2019

Andrew Berkshire joins the show to help preview the free agent season by looking at the players available, the teams that figure to be active, and the best possible fits between the two. 2:00 The market for Joe Pavelski 10:00 How the Avalanche will spend their cash 15:30 The Hurricanes recent activity31:00 The Tyler Myers sweepstakes 42:00 The most fun Artemi Panarin landing spot 48:00 The goalie carousel 53:00 The glut of middle six wingers1:06:00 Game of ‘would you rather’See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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and joining me to help preview the upcoming unrestricted free agent class and all the movement that we're going to see on July 1st is my good buddy Andrew Berkshire. Andrew, what's going on, man? No much. Just glad we're doing this in the morning because it's going to be like 35 degrees here today and I got to turn off the AC so it doesn't make a bunch of background noise. So good timing, good timing. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I'm excited. Let's, you know, we've been kind of planning this for a while when you were going to do it. I thought it would be a fun way to go about. kind of trying to figure out how all the puzzle pieces are going to fit to look at all the kind of key players and all the key guys that are going to be involved and then try to find the most logical fits for them, not necessarily stuff that we think will happen because neither of us are insiders. We're not plugged in and we don't know which way a lot of these players are leaning. But we're kind of reading the tea leaves and just kind of from a stylistic fit and sort of, oh, this team has this need and this player is available. So let's put them together. I thought it would be kind of a fun exercise to try and do that with a lot of the main players that are available.

Yeah, it's going to be fun. I think we're going to have some creative ideas that probably won't happen. But, you know, maybe if we were NHL GMs, more interesting things would happen. Do you want to kick us off? Do you have one to start right out of the gate? I guess. I could throw one out there. You know, I want to give you the platform.

Yeah, steal one that you had just to make sure. I think one thing that I'd really be interested in seeing is a short-term good money contract to, I don't think he's, interested in any way. But since San Jose's in cap trouble, Joe Pavelski on the Montreal Canadians. I think he brings a lot of what they need, power play efficiency. He's still a pretty decent two-way player. 34 years old, it's a bit of a risk, but they've got the cap space to fit him in there and short-term fits with their timeline in, you know, they've got prospects coming up, and I think it's 2021. Their cap situation is going to be a lot tougher with a lot of expiring UFAs and

Coakini Emmy will be a restrictive free agent then as well. I like that fit a lot. I'm kind of curious. I know I had Arpan Basque on the podcast earlier this week and him and I were talking about the Canadians and sort of their needs and where they're at as a franchise organizationally.

And the whole thing I would worry about there is just what the term is going to look like. Yeah, exactly. What he's looking for. And if he's going to leave San Jose, maybe he does just go for like higher dollars but lower term and think that, If he has two or three productive seasons, he can probably squeeze out another contract from someone.

I think that's possible, certainly. You know, we've heard that the stars and the lightning seem to be interested in his services, and he's met with those teams, and that makes sense as well. I was looking at him closely. You know, he scored 38 goals last year, and he had a bounce back, and that was great because I think he'd only had 22 or so the year before. A lot of his shot generation numbers have definitely been declining for the past three or four years, which makes sense considering he's turning 35, I believe.

Now, you know, when you look at him and you go, oh, well, the reason he scored 38 goals is because he shot 20% or whatever. He probably will continue to shoot a higher percentage if he's going to be just hovering around the net and converting a lot on the power play. And so I'm not necessarily overly concerned about that. It is obviously something whenever a guy's advancing an age I came, it kind of is like a check engine light when you look at the shot generation numbers. And you're like, oh, this guy is creating less and less each year. That's not great. what happens when this fully dries up. But I still think he has a couple of years left in the tank.

And he would make a lot of sense for a team like Montreal from giving their needs on the power play and given their needs for a guy who can do some of that stuff and profiles like that just based on the other players they have. So I like that quite a bit. I'm curious to see what that term is going to look like though. Yeah, I think the term is the big thing. And like you said, like the 38 goals last year, there's no impetus for Pavelski to not like to take any discount. right like he you would think unless like you said he wanted to get a second contract somewhere in his late 30s like there's no reason for him to say well you know i only need a two-year contract like he should have a fair amount of bargaining power he hasn't put up less than 60 points in a

full season since 2009 2010 like this is a this is a really good player who's been good for a very a long time, you know, could approach 400 goals and a thousand games in the next couple seasons here. He's a heck of a player, but I feel like as much as it's probably not going to happen, it just seems like such a natural fit in Montreal. He's got, you know, he was a captain, he's got that character that Mark Bergevan loves. They need goal scoring desperately. I think they really did a good job in addressing playmaking in the last year or two

in adding Jonathan Drew and Matt. Max Domi, but I don't expect Max Domi to score at the same rate next year. I don't expect some of the players that had career years last year to repeat. Like Andrew Shaw, I don't think there's any chance he puts up the numbers that he did last year. So they need to add goal scoring somewhere. And I feel like just Pavelsky makes much more sense to me for what they need than Matt Dushain. Yeah. Where like I know that Matt Dushain is supposedly very interested, although I still think he's going to end up in Nashville.

I just don't see the fit there. I think that he's the same kind of center that they already have failed to work into the lineup very well. He's a bit of a defensive liability. He had a great offensive season last year. But again, I don't think that he's going to be the Matt DeShane of last year for the next two, three, four, five years. I think he's a guy who's going to get really overpaid this offseason. Yeah, he will. The term on him is definitely going to be bad.

And also, he's also not much of a power play guy. I guess you can never have too much 5-1-5 scoring, but yeah, you're right. Just in terms of looking at what the Canadians would need, that would be a very logical fit. You know, from the Sharks' perspective, I think they'd obviously love to have Pavelski back, and he's their captain, and he's been on that team for whatever all 13 NHL seasons he's played. And I was thinking, like, if there is a GM that will be able to sort of emotionally distance himself from the situation and think with his head over his heart and not give him some crazy contract this summer, it probably is Doug Wilson considering what we've seen him do over the years and how

you know he drew a pretty hard line with Patrick Marlow after he'd played 19 years for them and meant a lot to that franchise and he was like we're not going to give you that third year Toronto swoops and gives him the third year and it's funny enough how that worked out and how that being the sticking point was such a big deal considering now the leaves really had to get off of him and trade him and give up a first round pick and he got bought out and now he wants to come back to San Jose so history is clearly borne out that Doug Wilson did a good job there. I think it's sort of a similar thing because they don't have much in the way of resources left and they kind of need to prioritize. And if it's him or retaining a guy like Timomeyer,

I think the choice is pretty obvious. Yeah, especially with the season that Timel Meyer had last year, I think he's going, like, he was already, I think, their best forward last year. And I think he's only getting better. And then after that is like Thomas Hartle. Like, it's amazing what San Jose's been able to do with the resources that they've had in the draft to constantly find little like inefficiencies or whatever you want to call them diamonds in the rough and you know late to mid first round draft picks and find these excellent players that they keep fitting in the lineup and just extending the cup window because it feels like it's been like 10 years that we've been saying that the cup window for the san Jose sharks is you know slowly closing and you know

the window for the Thorntons and the Pavelskys is starting to close off and maybe it did close last year but this team as much as they might be in trouble for a short amount of time I think has a very bright future once again they do they do and Meyer I believe you know he scored 30 goals or whatever but his kind of stats are suppressed by the fact that he was like I think he was 10th on the team and power play time per game he didn't make it onto that top power play and he was top 20 in pretty much every five-on-five category so at 23 years old like the sky I feel like he's only scratching the surface. And so it's funny seeing his name brought up as like the trendy offer sheet guy

where it's like, oh, you know, forget about Braden Point and Mitch Marner. The guy that could really be had this summer is Tim O'Mire. It's like, no, unless he goes for the four first round pick salary, which is like over 10.5 million, which I can't see anyone doing. The sharks, it's like a no-brainer, just retain him and then try to figure it out. Even if you have to cap dump Brendan Dillon or move some other stuff around or lose Kevin LeBank to a double offer sheet. Like you worry about that down the road,

but they're not going to let Meyer go unless it's just like an absolutely insane price that he signs to. Oh, no, not Brendan, Dylan. Yeah, what will they do without him? Yeah, it's one of those things where it could make things difficult, but you sacrifice the players that you can find yearly for the player that comes around once every five years or less. You know, I have so much appreciation for Himal Meyer. Only one player in the entire NHL had more high danger scoring. chances in all situations in Timel Meyer even with his low power play time as John Tavares.

I've heard of that guy. He scored a lot of goals as well. Yeah. You know the more I think about the Pavelsky thing, I like to fit with the avalanche a little bit. Oh, I like that too. You know, just because they do have the ability if he wants to play it this way to go like, we're going to give you a two-year deal at a crazy high salary and not take on any of that risk down the road with more years. And listen, you're going to play on a really fun, exciting uptempo team that's going to have a good power play for these next two years. You're going to score a lot of goals.

And sure, you're going to be 37 or whatever when you're a free agent again that summer, but you're going to have two productive seasons and we're going to try to win a cup. And you're probably going to get another contract if you stay healthy. So I think that could be a pretty interesting selling point, and that would be a player that I would be targeting because a lot of this free agent class is on the wing. And with guys like Panarin and certain other high caliber wingers, the fact that they're not a center isn't a big deal

because they control the play so much and they're such possession monsters that you can just run the puck through them offensively anyways, and they're basically like a second center out there. But for the abs, I do feel like, especially after they traded Carl Soderberg, there's a hole down the middle there right now where they're asking a lot of JT. Comfer and some of these other guys. And, you know, they drafted Alex New Hook, but he's going to be a couple years away. So I think for this team that does have aspirations right now, it does have just under

$40 million in cap space, I believe, like they can afford to overpay a little bit to bring in a guy like Pavelsky without taking on any of that long-term risk just because they have so many dollars to spend up front over these next couple of seasons. Yeah, I totally agree. And I feel like people kind of sleep a little bit on the avalanche outside of that McKinnon line. I think Alex Kerfoot is a much better player than people give them credit for. But you're right. Like they need some scoring depth, you know, their depth down the forward lines thins out quite severely.

So Pavelsky would be a great fit there. And like you said, short term that kind of bridges the gap until some of their prospects come up. I like that fit as well. I guess the thing about Pavelsky is like what team wouldn't benefit from adding him? You know, I mean, there's very few that don't need a guy like that. I guess like Toronto wouldn't need them. Right. But there are very few teams that do have the luxury of just how much money the abs have to play with right now,

where it's like you can take a bit of a hit from a value perspective and still improve your team significantly. Whereas for a lot of these teams, it's like it's not very feasible to give Pavelsky $8 million or whatever just because you don't have that kind of like disposable income right now. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, even if they wanted to be a little bit more risky with Pavelsky and, you know, bring him in like say if it's tough to beat the market on him and you have to give him four years which i would say is too much but that takes him to the end of the mckinon contract right so you can

essentially give him the money that you're not giving mckinin which allows you to like balance the books a little bit i feel like that could work out really well and then by the time he ages out you have to pay mckinin again it's it makes a lot of sense well it's always it's always interesting um i know that like after they traded soderberg for kinnadner and a third whatever like they were clearly just like selling high on the season Soderberg had and and they're like okay we can just get another asset here in this in this draft pick and and we can use that money else for it but when a team has like they already had like 35 or 36 million dollars in cap space and then they're creating even more I know a lot of people around the league were looking at that and being like what are

the avalines going to like it seems like you know especially with all the momentum they have with how everyone's talking about them now league wide and and how they were basically a goal away from making the Western Conference final and they have Nathan McKinn who's, you know, considered to be, if not the best player in the league, one of the best handful. Like there's a lot of stuff pointing to them becoming incredibly frisky here and becoming a market that actually does go out, goes out and becomes a big spender as opposed to just like towing that line of being like a fun hockey Twitter team that doesn't actually go for it fully and aggressively.

Yeah. And I think every time the avalanche have been in a space where they could go for it, they haven't been hesitant for spending right like back when they were the patrick wad joe sack peter forsburg trio that led everything uh they had i think after detroit the second highest salary in the league might have been behind toronto or new york as well it might have been fourth highest but you know they had three guys making ten million dollars a year back then so uh the ownership is not hesitant to spend as long as there's a chance of winning so you know especially when you've got mckenon at that ridiculous cap hit that they do

they can afford to play around a little bit and they have a lot of money to play around with I think there's something like 17 million below the cap floor so you've got to expect there's something big going to happen in Colorado coming soon because the only big time restrictive for agents they even have are Kerfoot and Rentonan is going to get paid

but Kerfoot's not established enough to get more than what maybe four you know to pay a premium for a center but outside of that Zadarov maybe, but I don't think he's going to get a lot of money either. Yeah, another way to put it is there's $17 million below the Ottawa Senator's cap ceiling. So, you know, they have a lot to work with here.

Now, you're right. They're being very interesting. And the other team that I'm going to lump them with him here is the Carolina Hurricanes. They're kind of like the East version a little bit, not necessarily in terms of team construction. But, you know, obviously they're going to pay Sebastian Ajo quite a bit of money this summer and he's going to have earned it. but they are also a team that was kind of a bit ahead of schedule last year. They had playoff success. They've been building towards this for a while.

They're a very trendy team. They have a ton of money to play with. We'll see how much of it they actually use. And they've been very active so far. You know, they basically buy Patrick Marlowe's contract, and they sell off Calvin DeHan to come out at a net neutral cost. And then they acquire Aricala from the Vegas Golden Knights. So it's kind of, I'm very curious to see how they approach this

because both of their goalies are also likely going to walk. It doesn't sound like either of them's going to be back. And last year it was the first year they've had not bottom three to five goaltending in however long. And, you know, they clearly don't want to invest. They probably feel like with the structure they have in place and the team they have. They can squeeze out at least league average goaltending from some other cheaper source and not pay for that.

And I do get that. But I'm very curious to see how they use some of this money, how much of that they are willing to use and what they're. sort of target because it does still feel like you know with furland walking with justin williams leaving even though they have acquired ericalla um they i feel like there's still a few more dominoes to fall in carolina yeah there's got to be there's just too many spots open and too much money to spend uh were you surprised at the dahan trade i was i really really was because i mean it was a bit disappointing because i i know people after that happened similar to the soderberg

gas raid we're like oh this team already has caps base and they're opening even more could they be going big game hunting and i viewed that much more of it as a team that was like trying to appease ownership because they probably had to sell them on getting that first round pick for patty marlowe and eating whatever the four million dollars or whatever they're going to wind up paying them out in real cash over the next two years and so this way they're like oh you know we got this first round pick and we're going to now dump four million dollars or whatever in calvin dehan and you know from their perspective from a non-ice perspective i love him a lot as a player i think he makes a ton of sense for um for the black hawks and he immediately improves their blue line but from them it's like they probably

viewed him as more of a third pairing guy considering they have slavin pesci and hamilton all their locked up long term they still have falk for now and we'll see how that plays out and then they're betting on guys like jake beat and hayden flurry being ready to come up and play real NHL minutes for them and so i think from that perspective they're like you know it just doesn't make sense for us to pay four million And I'm kind of surprised that that's all they could get because it's not like they were one of these teams that had to trade to Hahn this second to clear that money. They could have played this out in the summer and waited and done something before the season. But it is what it is. It was kind of – it was a bit of baffling trade for sure.

It was kind of weird seeing the hurricanes come out on the wrong side of a deal like that. Like, it felt like universally everyone was like, oh, that was a nice trade by Stan Bowman. I mean, it's weird to see the hurricanes come out on the wrong side of a trade specifically with Chicago, right? It feels like they've hoodwinked Stan Bowman. Bowman several times now, but maybe it was just, listen, we'll give you this one to make up for the other ones. Yeah, it's surprising. It feels like maybe since the cap didn't go up as much as people were expecting, which really

it was only 1.5 below. Right. But it seems like every contract that's being moved with like a tiny bit of salary attached to it, the return is just abysmal. I mean, you look at the Suban trade, DeHan, even Hala didn't bring much and he's not making much. It just hasn't been a great trade market for guys who are making more than league minimum. So it's weird.

I guess everyone is looking at the RFAs that they have to sign. I think that's the big worry is now that the RFAs are actually getting paid, everyone's trying to like scrimp and save and prepare for the future. I mean, I think the one thing with Carolina that I'd actually be worried about, everyone talks about Mitch Marner being possibly a guy to be offer sheeted. I don't know if you saw the whispers going around that Carolina's trying to get Aho for like 6 million or something like that. I don't think that's going to fly at all. He's way too good for that. So if I was a GM right now and I'm looking to really improve my team, a 21-year-old possibly franchise-level center in Sebastian Aho, give him the money, lose the picks. I mean, I had someone, look at me doing some, you know, getting some scoops and doing some reporting at the end.

the NHL draft. This isn't reporting because it was off the record. Someone kind of, uh, that's not affiliated with the team in any way, speculating purely on what they'd heard and stuff around the league. But I was, I was talking about like what, which guy is most, um, easily attainable in terms of these big name RFAs and who could actually be had with an offer sheet. And, uh, when they said Sebastian, I was a bit blown away because I think that would be just such a slap in the face to that hurricane's franchise because they do have the money to, work with and he is a young star and it seems like they really embraced him and sort of built that

offense around him last year and for them to go like you know we're going to just let him walk and we're going to take all of this draft capital which we've had a ton of over the past couple years anyways and we're going to redo this rebuild which they would essentially be having to do because they'd be replacing him with draft picks um that would be just i i can't see them doing that that would be just such a tough sell. But I did hear a little bit of the draft and I was I was really surprised to hear it, but it's certainly out there that people are still skeptical that this hurricanes team is going to be willing to spend the type of dollars that it's going to take to both keep a lot of

these guys and sustain a legitimate winning team. It was funny because everyone, I remember when they made the conference final was like, oh my God, look at like how little money the hurricanes are actually spending compared to all the teams that have made the conference finals over the year. years and I was like that's not I know people are kind of making that out as like a cute cute thing and a cute story that's that's not that's it's sad that they are not willing to spend more and and they're not like I I don't think we should view them as being like oh they have you know 20 something million or whatever left in cap space to spend because they're not going to

spend up to the cap yeah one I feel like when you've been struggling with attendance for as long as they have I know this year they did really well as the team you know really took off and Hopefully that continues because honestly the team is so entertaining to watch. I really hope that market really embraces them and they start making a bit more money. But I could see why they'd be gun-shy to spend. But yeah, this is a team that has so much promise. It'd be nice to see ownership really get behind them. Then again, they are still paying Alex Semen for two more years.

Yeah, they are. You know, Scott Darling has two more years left on his contract and, you know, is he even going to play? it's a it's a tough situation I guess it's tough to sell ownership or to tell ownership to pay more when you're you got what how much are they paying Marlowe this year well six against the cap but I think like

three point it's like three and a half yeah yeah so like you're still you've got like 10 million almost in dead cap space between seven Marlo and Darling and Darling that's rough well you have to I mean that's dead cap space so that means

they're spending even less, really. They are. Well, and I think this stuff can change. Like, if you want to look at it for, like, a optimistic perspective, I was actually, like, I was looking at the Arizona coyotes recently, and they actually are funny enough, spending real money now. Like, I know people like to poke fun at them, and they still have that whatever five-plus million cap hit, or ghost cap hit for Marian Hosa, which is inflating the total a little bit.

But, like, they're legitimately spending. approaching and above 70 million in real cash on this team this coming season and we can quibble with some of the contracts and whether they're getting their best bang for their buck considering the fact that Brad Richardson was their leading scorer last season but at the same time like that would if you're a hurricane time be like oh you know for years everyone would make fun of the coyotes and be like oh they're never going to spend actual money they're always going to be a cap for a team and you look at them now and for whatever reason they actually are spending real dollars. So it can't happen and it can't change. It's just a matter of sort of changing

the perception and also actually going out and doing it for more than just one season. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, yeah, the coyotes are, they're such a weird team. I feel like they have a bunch of like middle of the lineup guys. They do. Well, I also think like it's possible that they're going to be better this year in terms of injuries. Like they were just such a mess last year and I felt like Rick Tocket did do a good job of like all these different lineup combinations and it felt like every night they were missing someone else and so it was a lot of like it was funny enough it was Darcy Kumpur just having the season that we'd always hoped and thought anti-Ranta would eventually have that carried that. Yeah that was crazy. They almost made the playoffs.

Like they were in it what the final couple days of the season and so um you know, Clayton Keller led the team with 47 points and and the lightning had seven guys with more than that. Um so it's yeah that's one of my favorite stats. So I mean, They've clearly bet on a lot of these young guys like Schmaltz and Dvorag and they sign them to what they assume, I assume thought were team friendly deals down the road that had a lot of term. And in a couple years, if they put it together, they're going to look like steals. And so they're clearly betting on that. And we'll see if it pans out for them. But they at least have an actual team with guys that are assigned to real dollars.

And it's not just sort of like this Mickey Mouse operation where they're just like taking on bad contracts. So I do like to see that and that sort of transformation of an image from them. Yeah, for sure. And I feel like the coyotes can really pull some marketing genius stuff this year and talk about how they didn't make the playoffs last year, but they won as many playoff games as the lightning. Yeah, that's so did you and I. This is true. I'm going to put that in my LinkedIn. Yeah, me too.

Let's tag me in it, please. Yes, definitely. I totally check my LinkedIn all the time. time you know what you know what's funny you know what else i uh i heard a lot about the draft um and it was funny seeing after the trade happened just because i mean i guess it goes against it feel like people turn on them a little bit with a dahan trade and everyone was like oh you know the hurricanes lost that one um but it feels like their twitter can be a bit of an echo chamber sometimes and and we we pick certain teams that we like because we either believe in the analysts that they have or the

people running the team or vice versa we think it's a joke and and anything this one team does were going to be very critical of it. And with the hurricanes, they clearly have, you know, they've carried the favor of a lot of people like you and I on Twitter and with some of the stuff they do. And so when they went out and traded a prospect for Eric Halle and basically just took him as a cap dump from Vegas, everyone was like, oh, my God, what a savvy move by the hurricanes.

They just got this guy who had scored 30 goals or whatever the year before. And, you know, they're going to get a cheap infusion of offense off the wing with him. And it certainly, I get it from like a, you know, calculated, risk perspective. But what I'd heard of the draft was some very alarming stuff about Holla's prognosis and coming back from that brutal knee injury he had and, you know, speculations that he, whether he'd even be able to skate at full speed again and stuff like that. So it was just really funny because as we become immersed in this industry and as you talk to more people that actually have sourced information and you hear some of this stuff,

you obviously need to weed out what's important and whatnot and what's kind of a smokescreen. But obviously your opinions do get mold. a little bit compared to some people online that are just like instantly reacting to stuff from a completely biased perspective yeah and i think part of that's also you know getting older i think you know when i was younger i definitely reacted to things more instantaneously and now i kind of like tried to take a step back and not to say that younger people are wrong because i love the younger people on twitter that are already smarter than me but uh yeah i think that's definitely a maturity thing and and you as you know more around the league and like you said a few sources you you hear some of the behind

the scene stuff and why things went on like i don't know anything about the draft anymore i just don't have time to like get into the prospect so when uh she's now forgetting his name the russian guy russian american guy who fell uh is that calyev yes calyev i was like why the heck is this guy falling he scored like at will last year and then like so many people dm me and were like this this this I'm getting why he fell a little bit. Apparently he just like does not give a crap at all. So we'll see if maybe falling out of the first round has a bit of a wake-up call for him and hopefully he makes it.

But as much as I think our default is always like to trust in the kids that put up great numbers that the hockey people don't trust. And you know, we've seen it with Kirill Kavanaugh, Josh Hossang, and part of it is always going to be, there's people who gatekeep those kids out and they never really get chances, but how many of those guys actually pan out in the end? It seems like it's very rare. Yeah.

No, you're 100% right. And yet it's still, you know, at some point, like with a Cali of example, the draft, if you're in the second round or you're a team like the Kings, like just from an upside sort of risk reward perspective. Oh, yeah. It makes sense to take that risk. Especially that was like their third draft pick, I believe. And so it's a certain point for certain teams.

It makes a lot of sense. And I do think there is like there's some unfortunate, you know, you mentioned the gatekeeping. There's like kind of like a confirmation bias in play as well. Like if you're a team that hears this stuff about a certain player and then, you know, even you even, you're, you wind up taking a chance on them, which means you're better than the rest of the league in terms of being open and willing to embrace the fact that you were wrong. But then you still have this like kind of a. bias or subconscious feeling that like oh this guy doesn't try this guy doesn't care and so as soon as a little thing happens where would have happened to another player the profiles differently you wouldn't

care about it at all but in this case you overreact and you suspend him or you bench him or you demote him down the lineup and then it kind of like there's this trickle-down effect where you're basically ensuring that that prophecy comes true and so it's it is what it is but it is it is disappointing and so hopefully as we see um you know there be a turnover and in terms of of the people that are in the front offices of these teams and some of the thinking that goes on, maybe we'll see that change a little bit and players be actually given a real chance to succeed in some cases. But yeah, it is what it is.

You know, we're half an hour into this podcast and we've literally talked about one player on my list. The first 30 minutes were devoted to Joe Povellsky apparently. A lot of other stuff too. I think we're having fun here. We got on some tangents. I think we got to talk about the biggest free agent available this summer. Tyler Mark.

Yes, Tyler Myers. $8 million, seven years. Who's doing it? Who's the team that's going to make the mistake? Well, so it's funny because, and I'm very curious to see if this pans out this way, but there's this idea that in 2019 now with how prevalent Twitter is and the fact that all of these executives, I imagine, are either on Twitter with a fake shell account or have some. someone who's updating them on what's going on.

Like the vitriol behind the idea that Tyler Myers would get $50 million from a team, especially the Canucks who were linked most closely to them. Like for them to then, not that I'm saying that you should always listen to what your fans are saying and let the group think dictate all of your decisions by any means. But when it's such a unanimous, like, oh my God, this would be such a disaster. is it's got to give you a little bit of pause. It's the most common reaction. You've got to be like, huh, that's interesting. What are we missing? And it kind of makes you at least have certain discussions. Like just when it's this strong of a visceral reaction from your fan base and from everyone in the league as a whole and like laughing at you being like, oh, that would be so Canucks.

Like I don't understand how you could possibly just have full ton of tunnel vision and go like, no, we're right and everyone else is wrong. Like I just don't get it. No, I don't either. And I feel like, I understand. what people see in Tyler Myers, because there's shifts where he just has, like, when his confidence is high and he does everything right, he looks like, you know, prime Zedinochara out there, right? But Zadinochara was a better skater. And then every other shift, it's terrible. It's real, real bad. But like, there's, there's skill there. There's, like, Obviously, GMs are attracted to the size of this lad. Absolute unit.

He's an absolute unit. He is. His neck is like a friggin Brontosaurus. You know, like, he's a big man. But, like, most of the attributes that you would expect from a big man to, like, give them an advantage, Myers is actually quite bad at. One thing that he is quite good at is his neutral zone defense is okay. He's got that big wing span, so he forces people off to the side.

He is okay at defending off the rush. But once it gets in his own zone, it's like those long legs just give too much space. He's not good at blocking shots. He's not good at blocking passes. So he just gets lit up off the cycle. He's not great at breaking out four checks. So the defensive attributes don't exist.

And the offensive attributes, like his shot is kind of Dionne Finoff wild. But when it's on target, it's dangerous. But I don't know. He just doesn't get it off as often as you expect. He's not a great playmaker. So you look at him in Winnipeg the last couple of years. Last year he played mostly third-paring minutes, except for stints where Buffalo and Troubo were both injured.

He still had terrible numbers. And, you know, you could look at the positive plus-minus if you're 80. But if you just take a cursory look at the stats, I don't see how you look at this guy and think, well, you know, at almost 30, he's going to put it all together. Like, after 25, I think if a guy hasn't put it together, it's super unlikely that he's going to put it together. And I think a lot of executives look at Zadano Char's early career and mistake his time

in Long Island when he was kind of like goofy looking and didn't put it all together as like his entire 20s. And then they see his Boston career as like his prime. but he was great in Ottawa as well. Yep. You know, so, like, people forget, like, Zadino Chara's prime started before people were paying attention to Zadano Chara every day. It's a tough sell for me.

I don't understand how any executive could look at Myers and think this is a top four guy. He's just not. Yeah, it's been a decade since he won the Calder Trophy. Yeah, which is crazy to think about it. But we don't have to get into that. No, but I mean, I think at that point, obviously, we're just with the season he had and all the points he put up, I think people were expecting better. Oh, for sure.

It takes so long for us to detach that type of a career arc or that type of an accomplishment from a player. And so you kind of keep citing that. It's like, oh, well, see, he did this. And it's like, oh, well, a lot of time has passed and send. You know, you mentioned Zinocara. I think the best thing that happened for him was all of the love that Colton Pereko was getting in terms of, like, the reach and how, like, he physically looks.

Like, if you just watched him, if you just put him side by side with Perico, you'd be like, oh, like, you know, wow, they're the same guy. And then you watch him playing. It's like, oh, he, like, looks like, it's like the after version of. of like uh of space jam when he just gets like all the corn breako gets all of his talent suck from him and you just watch him and you're like oh that's that's tyler meyers looking him just uh he's just kind of moping around there on the ice and it's he's certainly like with the size and and the skating you're right if you catch him on the right shift or right couple shifts you're like oh my god

this guy could be such like a overwhelmingly dominant presence with all of these physical tools but if you're just not using it and if you look at the numbers and which clearly indicate that whatever he's doing is not translating into on-ice results. It's just a tough sell. And especially with the money, he's going to get paid, I mean, even if it's not eight times seven, which would just be true lunacy, even if it's something less,

like he's going to get paid like a top-paring guy. And he really is like a decent third-paring defenseman. And that's why it's like, from the Canucks perspective, it's so tricky because we already saw this with the J.T. Miller trade. And we can get into that little bit if you want. They pretty clearly have, you know, Jim Bennings entering the last year of his deal. He's clearly incentivized to get this team into the playoffs

after missing it for the past four seasons. And Tyler Myers will, in theory, make their team better because of the blue line they have and the fact that he's better than a lot of the guys they have. But considering the resources, they're going to be investing into it, just even for this season, let alone for the future years when you have to pay guys like Pedersen and Quinn Hughes bigger money, it's just such a short-sighted, disappointing,

decision and I'm very curious to see how it plays out whether they finally do pull the trigger on and considering the feedback they've gotten on it and if it's not them who it will be because it will be someone like when you look at this class of defensemen it is so thin in terms of unrestricted guys beyond like Myers and Jake Gardner like then you really started getting into like lower term lower salary kind of like dark throws hey now Nicholas Cronwall is available I mean is it fair to say that even if you don't love Colin Miller as much as certain people love him, just considering, you know, what you mentioned with DeHan in terms of some of these guys with salary, that they're basically getting cap dumped. Like for Vegas, they had still, even after the Hall of Trade, have to make a certain move.

And I can't imagine you would have to pay premium assets to get a guy who signed for like three something million for the rest of his 20s. Like going that route and going out and trading for him as opposed to signing pretty much any of these defensemen seems like a significantly more palatable option. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like Colin Miller is like pretty even keel with Jake Gardner in terms of what they bring. A little bit different styles, but like overall impact fairly similar. So I think Gardner is going to get more money. But even Gardner, I mean, with all the focus on Tyler Myers, I think whoever gets Gardner is going to pay a lot less, probably less term and get a much better player. Like he's going to be an underrated player in this offseason. just because I don't know, I haven't heard anything about Jake Gardner.

I think Montreal should probably be interested because they need left-handed defensemen. I think it's just, like you said, there's not much. Anton Stralman, but he's, you know, on the wrong side of 30 now, probably still a really good top four defensemen, but I don't think he's as impactful as he was when, you know, he went to Tampa Bay. So there's very diminishing returns on a lot of guys. that are available. There's Dan Gerardi. Oh, God.

Like, a lot of the guys that are available are the trap guys, you know, like the guys who you really don't want to get caught spending on. Yeah, there's a couple interesting, like third pairing guys like, like Jordy Ben, like, Yep, decent. You know, Tim Heed and Joe Kim Ryan from San Jose and some of these guys who it's like, oh, you know, if we bring them in for really low term and salary and just put them on our third pair and shelter the hell out of them, they could provide us with a little bit offense and be useful players.

Like, I'd go that route. But yeah, it's interesting with Gardner because, you know, you'd think that coming from the Toronto market where so much attention is placed on the team and the players and everyone's talking about them, that typically leads to guys being overrated. And it feels like because of a couple bad games against Boston with everyone watching, Jake Gardner has become like super underrated by people. Agreed. He's still going to get paid fine. Like I think I'm not worried about his bank state. I think he's going to be okay this summer, but clearly, especially compared to a guy like Tyler Myers, it will be really interesting seeing the disparity there between the two contracts, those two guys signed,

considering that I think everyone would agree that Gardner is the superior player. But Tyler Myers, just because he doesn't have those kind of blemishes on him, because I guess people either weren't watching him as closely or just because he is very tall, is going to get significantly more, I think. Yeah, I'm assuming that Gardner is going to get like 5.5 to 6, right? Like, that makes sense for the market and the limited defensemen available. But, yeah, I'm really interested to see, like, what percentage of the Carlson cap hit that Tyler Myers brings in and who signs that contract. Because I feel like that's, like, whoever signs the Tyler Myers contract, if it's got heavy term, heavy dollars, it's like, that's the target for the next GM being fired.

Well, it's also such a BS when it's like the devils are the only team in the league that could soak up P.K. Suban's contract. And then it's like all these teams are going after Tyler Myers for nearly the same cap hit. Yeah. And New Jersey gave up very little for Suban as well. I guess Davies is a pretty decent prospect, but like a second tier prospect, right? They got magic beans. Let's be real. Come on.

Yeah. Two seconds and two prospects. And we could say that Nashville was desperate. But man, unless they weren't even negotiating with anybody in the Western Conference, I don't see how they could be that desperate. it like even with an off year for Suban and turning 30, you would expect that some teams would want to pay more than that. It's crazy, you know, maybe his reputation is really that bad in the NHL circles, but

I think he's still quite the good defenseman. And especially when you've got Tyler Myers being rumored to get this much money, I don't get it. But maybe that's why we're not in hockey, Dimitri. We're just covering it. That's true. Okay, well, let's start going through something. of these players and just let's quickly go what we think is the best destination.

From like a fun perspective, I guess the most aesthetically pleasing outcome for Artemian would be the Rangers, right? Just in terms of like adding him to all of that young talent they have now and just watching them not necessarily be very good, but just be incredibly fought and generate a lot of offense. Yeah, their rebuild has really looked good to me. I think it's been fast-tracked way quicker than I expected. I thought it was going to take a lot longer, but yeah, Pernarren Aaron would fit in really well with that team.

You know where else he would fit in real well? New Jersey. Slot him alongside Taylor Hall and P.K. Suvan. That's the transition team now. That would be super fun. With Hughes as well. I mean, and then his year, like that's a lot of talent. Yeah.

And a team that really has not had that much offensive talent for even, you know, going back until their cup years. You know, they've been the heavy defensive team that they've kind of tried to change that image since Lou Lamarillo's been out. That would go a long way. And, you know, it's not the glam of being a ranger, but Panarin would still be near the ocean. I think I'd even rather watch him play on the islanders than the Panthers. I think the Panthers are my least favorite For him Which is a shame because it sounds like that's what's going to happen

Yeah as much as I want Tom Drance to have success down there I just the Panthers I don't know what it is about them They bore me You know and especially now that Luongo's retired And I don't want to go too much into a tangent on Luongo But I found the way that that went down Very

Unsavery He got pushed out He did And as much as like yeah sure Luongo is going to be happy in retirement and he's made his money but the fact that he wasn't allowed to go on LTIR when you hear behind the scenes all the injuries he dealt with last year and it was just because the Panthers didn't want to pay out the like three million left on his contract come on and I feel bad for Vancouver that they're the only team that seems to get stuck with

this cap recapture penalty well every other team has worked around it I'm genuinely curious like which who does this look worse for in terms of like negligence and incompetence. The Panthers, or I guess it has to be the Canucks in terms of like, how did these two teams not negotiate a trade where the Canucks give up some sort of an asset to get Luongo's contract

and either put him on LTIR themselves or just buy them or like do something with it? Like for them to just accept this penalty is pure, just insanity to me. Like if maybe the Panthers were just, you know, Dale Talon was just like, you know what? I'm not going to do them any favors. I'm just going to stick it to them.

and something behind the scenes happened there. But like, if the Canucks are like, we'll give you like a fourth round pick or something. How are the Panthers not like, all right, well, it's, you know, we have literally have nothing to do from this. So we're just going to take that asset and just take Luongo. It's like, it's so wild to me that this conversation didn't happen between TGMs. Maybe it did and they couldn't find a resolution. But man, it just seems like it's too obvious of a fit for it to not have happened.

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. And, you know, maybe Dale Tallon really hates the Canucks still from his Chicago days and that rivalry still alive somehow. But it doesn't make any sense. I don't get it at all. Yeah, he definitely, I mean, with all the, especially with all like the Bobroxki rumblings and how, you know, they've been telegraphing that and then, and then drafting Spencer Knight, not that he's going to be ready in the next couple years anyways, but it's like

investing all of these resources and goaltending when you still have long with after one down season. You're right. I think unsavory is the right way to go about it. But we'll see. Yeah, I think the reason why I said it just wouldn't be as fun of a fit is like, I guess they already just have, you know, the certain forwards there in place with, with Barkov and with Hubert O and with Dadanov and Hoffman and Trojek.

And so there is a bit of a surplus there, whereas if he went to the Islanders, like, maybe, I guess, you could argue that Barry Trots would really dumb it down and they would try to take away a lot of the super fun stuff that it is about him in terms of holding on to the buck for an extra second and being incredibly creative and trying out certain things on the ice but i would love to see him and and bars out play off each other even if they would play full time at five and five that would just be kind of like a fun wrinkle and you look at that islanders team they they they so desperately need talent wherever they can get it whether it is at center whether it is on the wing i think their blue line's fine but he would just like be such a godsend

for them so that's why i would like it more than than the florida fit even though you know florida's offense would technically be better be better with him and it'd be nice to see the islanders get a win right in terms of like acquiring a player who's already established. It seems like it doesn't really happen that often. When it does, it's like Alexei Ashen. So it'd be nice to see that fan base get rewarded a little bit, especially after the promise that last year showed. And, you know, Trots has done a real good job

whipping the worst defensive team in the league into one of the best. Yeah, there's definitely some creativity issues with Trots' system. I feel like he actually let Barzal go a little bit last year, though. it seems like if you've got the high-end talent he's like okay you can take the risks he kind of did the same with ovi uh in in in washington so maybe it would be okay with panarin and the thing about panarin is he's fantastic defensively as well so i think he earns a lot of uh leash from his coaching staffs that he's he's worked with just because he's so good in every zone uh what about bobarovsky well he's going to go to the panthers right yeah but where do we want to see him go because again the panther

answer is boring um well seem in carolina solve that goaltending issue i know they won't spend that yeah i think that would be a good fit well who are the teams that need a goalie right now i mean there's a lot on corey crawford's health for chicago there's well there's not a lot of these teams like like the oilers and the flames have um either don't have the resources to to do it or they like have someone that can feasibly eat 35 to 40 starts so they're just looking for a guy and maybe like a Curtis McAulaney or a Cam Talbot type makes more sense as a 1A 1B than signing Bobrovsky to a premium and starting him 65 times but there's very few

teams and that that's why it's interesting and also we so rarely see goleys of his caliber switch teams and get paid massive money like I was looking at this I talked about his podcast like Ben Bishop's really the only guy over the past however many years that kind of fit that bill and even he didn't get paid supremely like he got long term i guess but from dallas but it's very rare though we see this situation happens so we can't even look at like historical precedents and be like oh we think this is going to happen yeah it's it's definitely super rare um yeah there's lots of teams that need goaltending but not necessarily like you said the the big

star goaltender and it seems like there's more and more push towards having two good good goaltenders in one plays like 50 games instead of one guy playing 65 because it's pretty rare that not only can the goaltender last 65 games and not get injured, but maintain a high level of performance for that much time and then still be an impact player in the playoffs. There's very few guys that can do that nowadays. And, you know, even like if you consider like Bobrovsky, Price, Longquist, those guys are all 30 plus now, I think, right? Maybe Maybe Barovsky's not 30 yet, but... I think he is.

I think he is too. So all those guys are aging out of their primes already. So it seems like the future is more two good goaltenders than one star goalie. But, you know, that could change pretty quickly as well. Yeah. Well, Bobrovsky does make a lot of sense on the Panthers, I think, just from the perspective. I mean, I wouldn't pay any goalie what he's probably going to get. But, like, they were, I think they were 30th in both 5-1-5 and overall save percentage last year.

And so some of that speaks to the, the, offensive stuff going on in front of them clearly but um you know getting above average goaltending would help go a long way considering that they're once again going to have a top power play and should be able to generate five one five offense now i don't know how far is going to take them in that atlantic division with the three teams up top and even the Canadians probably ahead of them on the pecking order there but um you know they clearly i mean they've been positioning themselves to spend this money with all the trades they made in season dumping a lot of contracts and creating in they've been telegraphing these moves so i'd be i'd be stunned if they didn't at least get bobrowski and i think

it does sound like panarin and him are kind of like a package deal so i imagine uh that's gonna happen although i guess we'll see i don't know it's the goaly market is weird because beyond him i guess you have like varlamov as the next tier and then maybe mrazic yeah ben hunton no well we're talking about we're talking about goalies or sorry not not not ben hutton i was the name of the guy that was and I was thinking of the guy who signed in Buffalo. Carter Hutton. Why am I blanking?

Yes, that's the one. He's under contract, though. Yeah, he is. I just saw Ben Hutton and I was like, that guy, the goal. Yeah, yeah. Ben slash Carter. Yeah, Ben slash Carter. It's a two for one package.

1A1B, goal hunting situation. There we go, 40, 40, 40 split. Ben's like, why I didn't sign up for this? Yeah. No, but I mean, it is. It's like, I mean, I have seven names written down here, and it's like Bobrovski, Volamov, Lennar, I guess. We'll see what happens with him if the Islanders are willing to pay him and whether they if they can get like Panera and Bobarovsky as a package deal whether they're just going to let Leonard walk but then beyond that I guess Marazik is the interesting name because of the age and because of the potential upside like if you're a team that can't afford Barowski but you actually are uncomfortable with whatever goaltending situation you have right now he seems like he'd present the most like home run approach because I don't know like what what are Cam Talbot and Mike Smith really going to get you at this point.

No, and I mean, and outside that, it's like, Cam Ward. Oh, my God. No, he, I think he's retired. No, like, yeah, you think so? Come on. We can't, we can't have Cam Ward playing in the HL in 2019, 20, 19, 20. That is insane. Somebody's, he was sub-bad-hundred last year.

I know, I know. He was really bad, but somebody's going to give him money. I don't know. Cam Ward has like this, the NHL loves him. I don't know why. He's a good guy. I guess it's like on Smyth winning. He must be a great guy.

guy. But another guy that kind of like Myers is coasting on something that happened in his rookie year. Yeah. Okay, here's a question for you because there are, I feel like there's so many, like the biggest volume of a certain type is sort of this like, you know, middle six winger type that can be a play a complementary role. And the Oilers clearly need a lot of that. What's the most interesting fit for you from a guy they should be targeting realistically or a guy, or a guy, who they can get for a reasonable price or maybe even two or three names they can come in and play with McDavid and Dreis Heidel and put up much bigger numbers than they have so far.

Like it feels like Brett Connolly has been the name that's been kind of linked to them so far. Yeah, Brett Connolly is definitely one that has been thrown around. I think Anders Lee could be a good fit there if the Islanders try to go somewhere else. He might be a bit too pricey. I mean, Edmonton's cap situation, I haven't looked at it. It's probably pretty tight, hey, with all the big contracts. Oh, geez, they have the first. fourth least cap space in the league that is nuts yeah but they can probably i think he doesn't have

no move calls so they could probably pay ottawa to take milan luchitch's contract i'd imagine after they pay him his signing bonus he's only owed like 13 a million dollars in real cash over the next four years with a six million cap hit so like that's actually like a reasonable assets for ottawa and and that's six million in cap space would go a long way towards adding an underslie type for sure yeah i still can't believe the Miko Koskinanin contract is a thing that it blows my mind that that happened right before Chira really got fired. Yeah, for Edmonton, I mean, if they can afford to spend a bit more money, I feel like Gus Nyquist would be a really interesting ad there. I feel like he adds some good scoring, some good playmaking.

He doesn't necessarily have to play with McDavid. He could maybe help the transition of Leon to his own line. Other than that, I feel like it's more bargain players. You can always try to get Thomas Vannick again, or not again for them. But Thomas Vannick seems like he's the little deal for every summer now and every trade deadline that he just keeps kicking somehow. Well, I want to see him play for all 31 in HL teams. Actually, 32 when Seattle joins the league. So that would be in the expansion draft.

Yeah, and we know that Edmonton really wanted Thomas Vannick over a decade ago. This is true. Although, I guess, is Kevin Lowe the one who sent that offer sheet? You must be, he must have been the GM back then. I think he's still. Maybe Steve Templini. He's still in an organization. I mean, once you're in the Oilers organization, you're there for life.

You're exactly, old boys club. Yeah. Or the red wine club, as some call it. So are we just assuming that Duchenne is going to go to Nashville? Yeah, I think so. For probably two and a half million dollars more than what I would pay him. I mean, in theory, especially for next year, if they do view themselves as, I don't me want to say a cup contender let's say like just a contender to to be in the playoffs and and

and to make some noise and to at least exceed what they did this past year um like he does add a certain offensive dynamic to their team like they they have a lot of names but really i mean when it boiled down to it in that postseason series against dallas it was like if forsburg or arvidson weren't creating for them no one else really individually could and so du shane could add an element of that that would certainly help. I'm not sure. I think his actual talent and name brand value exceed the actual effect that it would have on that team, but it certainly would represent an improvement in that regard.

Oh, for sure. For sure. It's just a very costly improvement. And I think if they do, like, if they were to sign Matt Dachain, I don't think the PK contract being moved out is enough for them to fit everything in. I think they've got to find a way to move tourists, which is going to be really tough. And they've probably got to find a way to move Nick Benino. Both those guys have been really big disappointments and are paid premium salaries.

It's like I feel like the Benino one was bad from the outset, but I thought the tourist contract would work out a lot better than it did. He just really cratered almost as soon as the extension was signed. It's too bad because he's a player that I liked a lot. but maybe he just didn't fit there. One interesting thing that I'd like to see outside of Matt Dachain is, do you think there's any chance with Jason Spetz like going back to Ottawa? Sure. Yeah.

It's just, you know, nostalgia. It's a good story, yeah. Yeah, and it'd give those fans like something to hold on to while that team craters itself into oblivion. Yeah, yeah, it'd be a fun story. I'm okay with that. I mean, I would love to see Ottawa actually. I mean, they still haven't gotten involved in this whole cap crunch, right, where a lot of these teams are struggling so bad

and trading away actual talent to make some room. And Ottawa has so much room to take on to get just to the cap floor. And I would like to see them actually use that in a logical and aggressive way as opposed to just paying Cody Sisi a bunch of money to get there. Like I'd like to see them take on other people's mistakes and get a bunch of picks, get a bunch of prospects, and actually a couple years from now when someone hopefully else is owning the team, they can go for it. So I'd like to see that. But I'm not holding out. I'm not holding out hope for it.

No, me either. Yeah, there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of wingers here. What about Matt Zuccarello? Ooh, Zuccarello is a good one. I mean, a lot of teams could use his skill for sure. We'll see apparently he's looking for five. years, which is alarming considering his age. But he'd certainly help someone.

I mean, the impact he had on that Dallas team playing with Rupert Hinson, giving them a legitimate second scoring line in the postseason was a bit of a revelation. It kind of like highlighted just how badly Dallas needs secondary scoring and how much just getting a guy who could do that instantly increase their ceiling. So if they let him walk because the term is too pricey, I would love to see them go and get a guy like Nyquist maybe or someone that can actually play with with hints on that second line but what about Zuccarello where do you what do you think is logical fit what about what about what about if he wants to go uh wants to go back to new york but the rangers don't want to

give him the term what about the islanders i mean that would make sense uh from what he's kind of said in publicly it seemed like the divorce with the rangers was not that happy so i would assume that he wouldn't want to go back there so signing with the islanders would be quite the uh the hammering home that he was not happy to be traded yeah but uh i don't know he seemed like he was pretty happy in dallas as well but they don't have a lot of flexing ability under the cap either. I feel like of the teams, like I could see him in Boston.

They've got a bit of room. Well, they should just bring back Johansson. They should. They should. He was a good fit. I'm just thinking of teams that seem to be able to make use of players like Zoccarello. He seems to be a guy that would fit there. I feel like he could fit in pretty well on the Predators as well.

He could add some power play prowess to them. There's a lot of teams that could use Ziccarello because I'm assuming that the term might be high but the dollars might not be too bad so he's the kind of guy that can fit into man like 20 teams he's a pretty versatile player um i think a lot of people kind of overrate him a little bit in terms of how much he brings offensively but he's a really good player yeah he is i just like i just like the way he plays yeah he's fun to watch yeah he's very creative very kind of like just involved um you know a team we haven't talked about yet that we can kind of close out on it here a little bit is the blue jackets who are going to lose a lot of these guys we've mentioned so

far but they have just under 29 million in caps base and i'm already buying all the stock i can the contrarian stock of i think the blue jackets are actually going to be decent next season i think they have a lot of talent that's going to be returning obviously losing i think paneran's going to hurt a lot because I think he made Atkinson and Dubois much better and more productive than they actually are and that they will be without him. But with those two guys

with Boog Jenner with Josh Anderson, with Oliver Bjork Strand, they have guys like Bemstrom and Texier coming up. There's enough forward talent there and they've been linked to, I think, Gustav Nyquist so far by Elliot Friedman. But there's a couple names here that are available that they could go and spend money on and I think they could actually be pretty

decent next year or at least fun to watch. I think people are, you know, writing them off or burying them for dead a bit, a bit too prematurely here. Yeah, they've got a good core. So I feel like oftentimes when teams lose a star player, like if it's a team like Edmonton, yes, it's a big deal. But if you're a team that has a lot of depth anyway, it's not like you're not going to be hurt by it. But there's a lot going on there that's going right. I wouldn't be surprised if Cam Atkinson doesn't score as much next year, just because there's a little bit more. focus on him. But, you know, I expect Wendberg to take another step forward. I really think

Riley Nash is going to have a much better year this year. He was so unlucky last year. And then kind of made up for it a little bit in the playoffs. But, you know, Bjork Strand's still young. I feel like a lot of these guys are like Pierlique Dubois has really had a coming out party last year. There's a lot of good stuff in that organization that I'd be surprised if they took a step back. like to be you know in the bottom tier of the league they might not make the playoffs especially without uh bovarski you know being there their last line of defense there but i think they're going to be in the mix for most of the season if not all the season yeah i mean we'll obviously see how they use all of this money that they have uh left over now that they're

not going to be signing those guys but i i think we can they're certainly underrate sometimes the effect the guy like panerran can have not just from his own production but how he makes that others better around him and soaks up attention and makes life easier for them so i'm certainly willing to buy that but i just i just i like the talent there and i think if you're you know a much was made of like how they put all their eggs in last year's basket and how they really went for it and it's like oh man if this doesn't work out they're going to be starting from square one it's like well you know with dubois um wrenski and seth jones they have like three cornerstone pieces there that are all under 25 that are going to be after

they sign warrenski this summer as an r f a they're going to have all those guys like locked up long term like they'll be that's there's much worse uh situations to be kind of quote unquote starting from square one with so i think there's a lot to build there and and yarmos shown that he's certainly not afraid to be aggressive so i'm very curious to see how this plays out and if they can go and get a guy like let's say they go out and get Nyquist and zucorella let's say or another winger as well like all of a sudden they're the forward group is going to be perfectly fine and with warrenski and jones the blue line is is pretty said as well so i like a lot there and they're kind of taking some risks with the goaltending, and they have a couple unproven names there

so far in Merr's-Lincoln's and Corpus Hollow, and maybe they're a destination for a guy like a veteran like McElaney, but I don't know. I think from their perspective, Panarin's the only loss here that really, really is going to hurt because they wouldn't want to pay Bobrowski's eventual contract anyways. I assume that he gets what he's going to get, and Dushain was always going to be a rental, and they probably don't want to pay his contract as well. So I don't know, maybe they bring back a guy like Ryan de Zingle as well. We haven't mentioned him, but I like him quite a bit as sort of a secondary score that will probably,

I don't know if he's going to be a July 1 guy. He might even be July 2, but he's going to probably be a useful fit for someone as well. So there's certain stuff the blue jackets can do. And I'm already taking the contrary in point of view of I think they're going to be better than people think. Yeah, I like Ryan DeZingle too, but it seems like John Tortorella didn't that much. So maybe he'll go somewhere else. But yeah, I agree. I don't think they're going back to step one.

I think losing Panera and Bovrovsky is like a two-year setback kind of thing for the Blue Jackets and not a setback as in there in the bottom of the league. Just they won't be contenders, right? I think they're in that mid-range of teams that could miss the playoffs, could make the playoffs. And depending on what they do this off-season, they could be just fine. They could be maybe not quite as good as last year, but still decent. And you could be not as good as last year and still do better. You know, I mean, I think that the Washington Capitals, the year before they won the Cup, were a better team than the year that they won the Cup.

It's just that things broke right for them, and that's the way it went. You know, it's the same as like the Boston Bruins were probably better a couple of years ago than they were last year. But things broke right for them. They didn't have to face Tampa Bay Lightning in the second round. So that's the way the cookie crumbles. Sometimes things go wrong for you. Sometimes they don't. Are there any other names that we want to mention here before we get out of here as the sirens go off in the back?

As the sirens go, they're coming to get you? Yeah, the hot take sirens, yeah. This is the title of the show where we can really get after it. Yeah, exactly. Do you think Joe Thornton signs in San Jose? Yeah, yeah, I do so. I can't see him going anywhere else. I can't either.

Yeah, I don't want to see him going anywhere else. No, I mean, he's the shark now, right? Like, he's encroaching on so many records. and yeah i feel like there's maybe not too many other interesting names i mean so who are the stayaways they're wayne sevens pat haroon and just in terms of like giving term to guys who are going to age poorly i would i would lump well he i think he's the days of him getting any sort of big salary or he was so bad last year but yeah he was really bad last year like andrews leigh also like i like him as a player i think he's going to contribute but you know minnesota for example is

like I think he's from there and and they're like interested in in going out and getting him and making a splash it's like I could see that contract aging exceptionally poorly yeah I can see that as well I'm trying to think of who I had on my sports net list of like players to be wary of and I think it was just like Tyler Myers with a bullet Perry have anything left I think so it really depends on what like first of all whether or not his ego will interfere with you know what he is right now. Like if he still thinks that he's going to be Corey Perry of like 2011 and he wants big money and decent term, then it's going to be a disaster for whoever signs him.

But if he's willing to take like a show me contract or even like slightly below league average salary and play third line minutes with a bit of power play, as long as he's not, you know, the go-to player on his line, I think he can still score 20. Yeah. You know, he can put the puck in the net, especially from in tight. He's got the hands. That's like the last thing to go. I think you can utilize Cory Perry.

I think a lot of teams can. It's just the name value of Corey Perry is probably too high for this next contract to not be a bad move. You know what I mean? I feel like teams just overvalue him to such an extreme point that he's going to get something like four and a half minutes. million, five million for three years or something. And it'll be underwhelming to say at least. Yeah. Yeah, well, I'm curious to see from his perspective

because obviously, you know, he is making money off of his buyout from Anaheim. So maybe he does take a little bit less to put himself on a better spot. But, I mean, he's also had team success or I guess a lot earlier in his career, but I'm not sure what the driving force or what his motivations are there from whether he just wants to get as much money as possible

or whether he wants to win a Stanley Cup. Yeah, I mean, a pissed off Corey Perel with a chip on his shoulder, that's not a bad asset to have. Yeah. Okay, let's put a couple quick name games here. Would you rather have a, I guess it depends on situation, but let's say all things being equal, Eunice Don Skoy or Michael Furland? Ooh, I think Furland.

That's a tough one because I really like Don Skoy, and I feel like he's going to come cheap to a team. Buffalo makes way too much sense, right? Oh, yes, yes. They need, I mean, they need scoring help, obviously, but I think they need like good five on five possession players that can make sure that when Jack Eichl and Jeff Skinner aren't on the ice, they're not like a 44% shot share team. Yes. Like I think just like functional hockey players that can keep their head above water is their priority this this offseason.

And fortunately, especially on the wing, you can probably get those guys in free agency that would like instantly improve their baseline so dramatically for a fraction of the cost. So that's a good spot to be in in the theory because pretty much anyone at this point is going to be. be a massive improvement for them on the wing. Right. And Don's going to be the guy who's going to score you a lot of points, but he can stabilize a line with guys who do score points but are negative possession players, right? So he's a good stabilizing force out there. And like you said, Buffalo really needs that.

I like that. I think Michael Furlin is going to get maybe a little bit too much money, but I like him as a player who plays physical and also brings a lot of actual tangible things. to the game as well. I'm looking forward to the Oilers dumping the Lutche contract to Ottawa and then giving the exact same money to Michael Ford. I mean, at least he's not in his 30s. Yeah.

Well, it would be funny if they did that and then signed like Wayne Simmons or something. Oh, man. Yeah, it's like, oh, wow, you guys have clearly learned from your past mistakes. I was on the radio last night and they were asking me if overpaying for like previous UFAs, teams would like learn from it. And I was like, no. You expect NHLGMs to learn from past mistakes? No.

No, of course not. Not going to happen. Like, oh, this time's going to be different. Well, we have the infrastructure and culture in place to make this work. Exactly. And all you need is, like, to miss out on the one guy that you wanted most. And then all of a sudden, you're in panic mode, and you need to sign somebody. You've got to fill that hole, and you end up making a huge mistake.

Yeah. And we see time and time again that teams don't realize the cabs base is an asset. They want to have someone that they can trot out on July, on July 2nd or July 3rd in front of the media, hold up a jurors and be like, this is the guy that's coming in to save our team. Andrew, plug some stuff. What are you working on?

What are you keeping busy with these days? Right now, not as much. I've got some free agency stuff coming for Sportsnet. Might do something for the Winnipeg free press if the Jets make some signings. But for the most part, I'm ready for summer, man. I'm ready for some time off. Yeah, me too.

Well, I'm glad we got to do this. I think July 1 is going to be really fun. I think we're going to see a lot of money splashed around, a lot of teams that don't have gapspace somehow still spending money, and it'll be fun to dissect what happens. So I'm looking forward to having you back on the show sometime down the road. Maybe I'll let you take the summer off, and then we'll check back in with some season preview stuff come late September.

Sounds good, man. Offer sheets, please, NHL. Let's do it. Yes, yes, please, please, please. Have a good one, man. You too. Cheers. The Hockey PEDEOCast with Dimitri Filipovich.

Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovic and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.