The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 323: The Rising Stars

Episode Date: November 15, 2019

Sean Shapiro joins the show to discuss the Dallas Stars, their two extremes to start the year, whether they're playing the right way under Jim Montgomery and how far it can ultimately take them.2:00 The turning point that saved the Stars' season6:30 The pros and cons of Jim Montgomery's system 17:00 Seguin and Benn struggling... again26:00 Joe Pavelski's early impact in Dallas 31:30 DENIS GURIANOV! 42:00 How 2016 changed everything53:00 Matching up with Nashville and ColoradoSee acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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The hockeypedio cast. My name is Dimitri Philpovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Sean Shapiro. Sean, what's going on, man. It's good. It's good to do this in person. Yeah. Oh, man. If people saw what we went through to make this happen, we were going to record at the first location. Then it was too noisy because of downtown Vancouver Construction. And we went to a second one. Couldn't make it happen. Now we're here in your hotel room. It's nice and quiet. We're actually doing a video version of this as well for people to check out on YouTube. So we have to get the lighting right. We had to move around some jackets, some stuff all around the hotel room. So we're finally here.

We're finally recording. It was a big production. It was a big production. People will there just listen to this on their phones regularly as podcasts and iTunes. They're just like, what, what is happening right now? Why are they being so weird about this? But it was a whole ordeal. But I'm excited to do this. You know, we needed to spice it up because I felt like we've set such a high standard with having you on the show where the first two times, the first time was, I believe, the summer of 2018 when we were in the peak, like, Miro Heiskening for Eric Carlson trade rumors.

And we talked about that for like an hour. And then the second time I had you on was after the CEO went out and completely roasted. the two best players in the team, and then we, like, debriefed. And I think that was, like, just before New Year's, 2018 last year. That would have been, yeah, that would have been, whether we did it before New Year's Day or not, I'm not sure. But it was right around that time where it was, because December 28th was the, or the famous Jim Lights comments from last year. Well, the best was the first, like, the first headline that came out from it was like, I don't know who did it, but it was like, it was F and then it was like blanked out of I and G. And then it was horses and then a bunch of, like, misplaced.

Astros, and I was like, what did they do to those horses? Yes, effing horses. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. This is a big story. So I guess in a sense, the stars are, if you just look, missed the first month of the season, and you just look at the standings page now and you're like, let's check in with the stars. You'd be like, all right, they're slightly over 500.

They're pretty much even goal differential, maybe underwhelming, considering our preseason expectations, but certainly not a disaster. There's many teams that are disappointed much further. but then if you actually been following along for the ride as you have covering this team and as I have been from a distance it's like it's just been up and oh I guess it was yeah it was down and then it was a big up

and now we're on this stretch where we're recording this on a Thursday afternoon 8-1 and 1 and so it really kind of balances out that horrible stretch to start the season but man it's been it's been quite an interesting path they took to getting here it's I mean so stars they started the season 1 7 and 1 their first nine games and it was there was a legit point this season where I was at and during that stretch

and even kind of past that stretch where we're thinking, am I about to cover a coaching search or GM search in the middle of the season? Like that's what it felt like. Yeah. It was, and it actually wasn't during the one seven and one that it felt like this was the end actually. Like the one seven and one was bad. But they came back, they won a couple games, and then they lay an absolute dud in the third period against the Pittsburgh Penguins, where they actually play pretty well for the first two periods, and then zero-zero game in the third period, and they just don't show up at all in the third period. And then the next game is the game makes the Minnesota Wild, which is the game where people will remember the Starz scored six goals in the final 21 minutes.

but with how the first 35 minutes of that game's going, when you combine it with the end of the third period from the Pittsburgh game before and how things had gone before, you're thinking like, this is the type of effort and this is the type of game when you combine these six straight periods of hockey,

one, Pittsburgh, two versus Minnesota, that somebody is making a call and saying, okay, we have to change something, we're changing something, whether it's a coach getting fired, a GM getting fired, because those were the things that those are the people who ultimately can get ex.

Like, we all know players can't get fired. It's just not possible. And realistically, I mean, I'm sure there's ways we can. Well, in the NFL, they sort of can. But, yeah. So then Alexander Radulov, with a little bit of help from Devin Dubnick's play in the final 21 minutes of the, of that Minnesota game, stars score six unanswered. Radulov has the hat trick.

And then everything just kind of switches. And it's, there's a lot of credit that's due here. For one, the players as a whole kind of bought into more of what the coaching staff was asking them to do. And the coaching staff also was willing to make adjustments to it, which is something that I think it's funny in Dallas right now. I hear there was a time where I kept hearing on Twitter that, oh, well, the players revolted against Montgomery in those 21 minutes and decided to score six goals against the Minnesota. Yeah. That's not what happened. Like that's not how this works.

These players, these guys aren't organized enough to do that. So what happened was the stars, they realized they kind of found an identity that actually works in the last 10 games down. They're obviously 8-1-1. And there was an acceptance from the players and the coaches that you can be tough defensively. And there's also room to create offensively and use that aggressiveness to actually create chances. I think the biggest thing you notice with the stars is the forecheck. It went from a forecheck that was based on defending 200 feet from their net to one that was actually trying to create 200 feet from their net. Like I think we saw a real change where we're going to do everything we need to keep the puck 200 feet away because we don't want them to score to a switch of, oh, if we force a turnover here, we can actually try and create something.

And that was the biggest switch. And I think that's kind of been, it created a lot of confidence for a lot of those depth players who need to play that way. to have success. Well, so on this 8-1-1 stretch, they've outscored teams 29-16. In seven of those wins, they've given up exactly one goal against, and they did so last night against Calgary as well. And that's kind of became their M.O. or their trademark last year, where it was, you know, they might be disappointing offensively.

They have big names that aren't producing the way we'd expect from the caliber of their talent. But when you are so stingy defensively and you're pretty much just like, all right, all we need to do is score two goals tonight to weigh. or even the regular season won and then get to a shootout and potentially win it there. Like your margin for air or the bar you have to clear is so low. Now, I don't know how you feel about this, but I had high expectations for this team heading into the season.

And I think part of it might have just been the most recent sample we saw from them was a team that pushed the eventual Stanley Cup champions right to the limit. They looked significantly better after Matt Zuccarello came back because he was injured after they traded for him and he comes back and really kind of unlocked Rupépe. hands and you saw the potential of that team. And heading into this year, I think a lot of people, myself, included, were like, you know, it's kind of boring to, like, pick St. Louis to win the Central or, you know, Nashville, potentially,

you could. But Dallas was such, like, an interesting team in terms of, like, oh, let's really mix it up. And let's, like, let's be trendy and let's pick them. And there was certainly some logic there because of the things they do well. But watching them, even though the results have been there, I still, like, leave games feeling underwhelmed or disappointed. I'm not sure what the right descriptive term is, but you just look at the players and you're like,

okay, even if they're not getting the balances, even if Tyler Sayaghan's been unlucky, he's going to be better. Just the way this team plays, is this the best course of action for the personnel they do have? It is the, I think it's the best course of action for certain players.

I think the biggest issue with the stars, with how they play, is it's not the, style. It's not that being aggressive and playing smart defensively, because I think that works. I think like Andrew Cagliano, Jason Dickinson, like the guys like that, you know what?

This system works for guys like that. They're loving it. Blake Como, he's loving it. I think the issue is there's a there's a gauge, right? And so I think there's a, there's a gauge between where hard work and skill kind of have to meet. There's a sliding level.

And I think the problem is right now, for the players that have the skill that should be allowed to work on that sliding level. They're treating like a switch as opposed to a sliding level. Like, I think we see too much of Jamie Ben and Tyler Sagan, Alexander Radulov. The shift they're going to work hard is not the shift where they're going to show their skill. Right. And vice versa, where you need them to work together. I think the biggest example for me comes on the power play where the power play, pretty power play goals don't happen because of skill. Just frankly, like they do, but they happen because you win that.

first puck battle and all of a sudden you turn a five on four really into a five on three for five seconds and during that those five seconds so i think for jamy ben tyler sagan alexander radjoloff it's kind of they haven't been able to find that sliding scale and john clingberg as well who he's hurt so he's kind of been kind of precluded from some of the criticisms lately right but um they haven't been able to find that sliding scale of okay skill and hard work can coexist and instead it's just a switch that goes okay we're going to work hard this shift we're going to we're going to do this as opposed to the next shift we're going to try and be fancy. Like there's there's a line that needs to be blurred for for those high skilled players.

I think it's a wonderful system for the guys who aren't skilled enough to need that line. Like there's, you look, your bottom six should be playing the way they are. And that's, that's fine. Yeah. Well, but it's, it's, I'm, I'm struggling with this kind of imbalance because I think so much of coaching is like stuff where not necessarily privy to, right? It's like behind the scenes. a lot of motivational stuff. It's a lot of, you know, things that you can't necessarily just from watching a game. And I think with big name players, just let's be honest, like, not even Dallas, top players don't, the only thing you can do with top players is overcoach them.

Yeah. Like, you can't, like, we'll just use Connor McDavid's in Edmonton. Right. Whatever, no matter what the coaching staff does, it's going to be, he's still going to be a great player. Right. And I think, and I don't think the stars are overcoaching. I don't think it's an over-coaching issue. I don't get the feeling that it is.

And maybe I'm wrong on that because obviously I don't know what the honest feeling of inside their heads are of those players. But I think it's more of, and this falls on both the players and the coaches. The coaches need to do probably need a better job of saying, hey, Tyler, you can create more. You're allowed to do that. You're allowed to do this. And on the flip side, the players need to be able to say, you know what, look, I'm paid 9.1.4. $8.5 million per season because I can put the buck in the net. And there's places you can do that without straying away and breaking the system. Yes. No, but that's kind of what I was getting at,

where putting players in a position to succeed based on their skill set. And I do think Jim Montgomery has done that. Now, obviously, for the lower half of the roster and the more kind of defensively inclined players, certainly, I think the system kind of goes better with them. But when you look at the usage, right, like you can't quibble with the fact that he gets John, Klingberg out there while he's healthy in offensive situations, offensive zone draws, getting him out there as much as possible. Same with the top line, really. Like, if you look at the split, I think the stars...

I think here's a really good example, actually. So there's one thing that I think Jim Montgomery kind of gets crap for on social media is people, and you know what, this has become an entire, this is a bigger issue for our entire industry, is people see the lines at morning skate and they assume that's the line for the full game. So we'll use the example for last night where... stars playing Calgary and Justin Dalling is with Jamie, uh, Jamie, Jamie, and Tyler Sagan. Right.

And my entire Twitter mentions throughout the day are, what the hell is Justin Dalling doing playing with, scoring sweet goals? He did score, he did score a sweet goal. That was a trend of story. But what the hell is he doing with Jamie Ben and Tyler Sagan? That was the reaction. Right.

And yes, they played together for a good amount of the game. However, there were shifts where two of their best, two of their best chances for Ben and Sagan where Joe Pavelski was out there with them. There was an offensive zone draw in the second period where Montgomery sends out Sagan, Radulov, Corey Perry, Miro Hishkin, and Nessalindel for an offensive zone draw. And that's basically taking three different lines and put them together. So I think as a whole, and this is not just stars related, this is everything, we get way too attached to, oh, this coach put these lines together for morning skate or rushes,

and they do make adjustments. And if I'm going to be critical of Jim Montgomery, it is fair to say, I don't know if he's done the best things with his powerplay units. Like that is to me, the Star's power play has struggled, and that to me is probably the area where you could say, I don't know if you've done the right things with that. Like you're trying different buttons clearly, but is Tyler Sagan at his best in the middle, for example? Like they've put Tyler Sagan in kind of that bumper spot. He's probably more effective in my mind on that half wall or the dollar. there. So things like that where maybe special teams could be more effective.

But that's usually not on the head coach, right? It is on the head coach now, though, because he took over the power. So Todd Nelson, that was one of the changes that happened this season. So he took over, it was, Todd Nelson was running the power play. And about seven games ago, I think. Seven games or eight games ago, he basically took over power play responsibilities from Todd Nelson, turned Todd Nelson into a spot where still had input in every. thing, but Montgomery is the one who's in charge of it, and Nelson is now the one, is now the,

we got moved to the eye in the sky. The stars didn't really have a full-time eye in the sky coached, and so they moved him to that role. So, so it does. So in this case, the power play here does fall on Montgomery, where moving around and things like that, and like they scored a power play goal last night, and it was, but it was a rush chance. They have yet to really do much of anything to create and generate from getting, once they're set up in the So, yeah, and I do think, I think, you know, the stars local broadcast team is actually one of my favorite local ones. I think they do a pretty good job of finding a nice balance between the two teams and not necessarily just giving you a perspective from the home team's perspective. But I think Razor has actually done a really good job.

I went back in preparation for this podcast and just watch like the last however many games of theirs. And I think he does a good job of like actually calling them out for like being way too stagnant on the power play and a lot of standing around. Power play is really stagnant. And that's, I mean, and that's partially on the coach for clearly. not getting the message across if you need to do this. And it's also on the players of move your feet. Well, and it's funny because, like, it seems so obvious, like, oh, you want to score as quickly as possible. But I've talked about this in the podcast many times before where with the Bruins,

who are, by the way, the number one ranked power play. And certainly having Patrice Bergeron, Tori Krug. And they all play together. And they all play together. But that's another point, though. You look at they've got consistency that's grown. The Star's power play has been kind of a juggling of pieces throughout, which part of that's injury, obviously.

losing Klingberg changes things quite a bit. But obviously, once the Bruins have something that works and stuck with it. But here's what they have that works. They attack very quickly. Like if the puck goes out of the zone, they go back and they're quickly trying to score off the rush. Off a face off, as soon as they win it, it's quickly like, let's move this round and get it to pass your act. Rather than, right, let's pass it out from one point to the other and hold it for 30 seconds and then get a weak shot on it. And I have seen a lot of that where it's like, talent is one thing, but having an objective and sticking to it goes such a long way on the power player.

Well, I mean, I don't know if you've noticed it, so how many games with X amount of games you want to watch. You notice how often Alexander Radulov tries to force the backdoor pass. Yeah. Yeah. If you and I can notice that, and now, if you and I can notice that, every P.K. Coach in the league can notice that, okay, Radulov is looking for the guy cutting backdoor every time. He's not going to go anywhere else, and John Klingberg is looking for a similar play. Right. It's too stagnant. Well, yeah, and look at that power play goal. They did score.

I mean, it was Pavellski with like a greasy around. net thing but what started that was high skin and goryana up with a clean entry off the rush the flames couldn't set their penalty kill and so let's talk more about ben and say again then because clearly it's not as a tumultuous situation as last year when we talked about it but you know they did get some headlines i mean it led 31 thoughts this this week on uh leo freeman's article about um jim montgomery calling out the two players and apologizing to them um it's weird because last year i remember when we did this, I was very vocal in my defense of Tyler Sayaghan and just viewed it purely as like, this is a classic example of people not understanding shooting percentage and he had like 11 posts

he hit at that time. And it's like a couple bounces here or there. He's scoring more goals. No one cares about it. Yeah. This year, certainly he's shooting 5.1%. He's an 11% shooter. That won't continue. He's going to score more goals. He's going to score more goals. But much like Ben, his shot rates individually are an all-time low and he is a volume shooter. And he doesn't have the, that benefit of, oh, just a couple inches here or there and all those posts and they go in. And I think those are much more alarming trends for me where it's clear he's going to score more than three goals in 19 games or whatever, but he has not played as well as he was last driving.

No, that's 100% true. And the other thing that's the most kind of alarming for me when I look at it is, so Jamie, I really believe when I look at it and I try to break it down and I look back at the whole lights conversation, I really think it was more of a. missile aimed at Jamie Ben where Tyler Sagan was more grouped in of like... By association. Yeah, and this is what we expect of people who make close to $10 million annually and over $13 million in real money right now and stuff like that.

So, however, one thing that Jamie has happened with Jamie Ben and I'm not sure whether it's happened with Jamie Ben in the past couple of years now is Jamie Ben disappears. Like Jamie Ben will go one game, one shift, where. He looks like that 2014 version, that people like to use the word beast mode, which I like to use the word Sochi Ben, where he goes, he dials into what was Sochi Ben, the guy who was, you know what, he was an arguably top five player in the world in 2014. Physically asserting himself in like a functional way. Exactly. Yes. And so there are times he'll do that. And you're like, oh, wow, he still has it. But then the next game or the next period, he'll just disappear completely. And you'll forget Jamie Ben's even playing. Sagan, even when he was not scoring last year, even though he wasn't scoring, you would still notice him. You'd still see him.

He has had similar issues this year where Tyler Sagan will disappear. And that's been the more concerning thing for me, where Tyler Sagan shouldn't be disappearing from a game. Someone who's 10 game, 15 games into a mega eight-year extension should not be just disappearing from games like he has. um saying it needs to be better that's i don't really know how else to say that about his game like it's kind of like boring analysis it is it's just it's but he he is a better player who needs to play better and there's not a and there's not and if there was a easy way to break it down and say this it's this magic elixir or whatnot then i do think there is a bit of a magic elixir okay i mean i understand what jim montgomery's trying to do in terms of spreading the wealth getting other

is going. But if you just look at, and I understand the flaws with or without you stats because there's so many different things will take an account. But, I mean, it's pretty clear. And it makes sense logically that Sagan's a completely different player when he's playing with Rajolov in terms of.

Radulov is sort of, he's not the star's best player. But as we saw in that game that turned around their season against Minnesota, he's like the straw that stirs the drink. And I think his ability to sort of get the puck and be dangerous in the offense zone with passing all forced passes on the power play aside, like I think Sagan needs more.

more of that. Now you can be like, well, it's a bit concerning that your highest paid player and your best player needs to play with someone and he can't just carry to Joe Shmose. But I think that's the reality of the situation. No, I think him playing with Justin Dallin and Jamie Bent isn't a big deal to me. It's when, like, that line is not like, when people are overreacting about Justin Daly and Tyler Sagan and Jamie Ben. The line combinations have you exasperated, I can tell. I'm like, that's, those are I'm like, he's still playing with Jamie Ben.

Yeah. Like, it doesn't matter. He's still playing with Jamie Ben. Right. It's when he ends up with, it's when he ends up with not Ben and not Radulov. And he's with, and he ends up with a couple other guys where he's not having that player. Like Radulov, so Radilov to me is a, Radulov's like an exclamation point personified. Right. Like it is. In everywhere. And it is going to be wonderful for your team or it is going to be the offensive zone hooking. penalty he takes every third period. Yeah. You just have to live with it, though, right? It's a classic example of, like, what he brings to the table. He's incredibly entertaining to watch. Like, he is a person who, even with how the stars have played, stars have played,

with even how the stars have played, he is still entertaining to watch. Yeah. Yeah. He transcends that for sure. But, you know, with Ben, whereas I do think it's as simple as, like, Sagan needs to play better. You know, we talk about this last year. Like, it's concerning that fly.

I think we can say that, I mean, it's something that I think we can say is, Sagan needs to play better. Ben is a bad contract the stars are mad at. Yeah. Like that's just just the reality of it, where the stars are looking at, if you looked at Jamie Ben's game and the underlying things he's done

and the all-around game, if he was making $5 million, you'd be fine. You'd be fine. Well, if he wasn't a team captain. True. But it's still, it's the contract. Like the stars are mad at the bad contract

they have with Jamie Ben. And that's where all this comes out. I think part of it's mad at themselves, too. And I don't know if you would do anything else in hindsight when you signed it and everything like that. But it's a deal where when you invested this much into a guy and that much of your cap space, you need more goals. You can't have one goal.

And you have zero goals for the last 14. Like, you can't have that. I think that's such a salient point you made about how, like, on a given night or in a given period or shift, like, you'll see the flashes of the player he used to be. I think sometimes there's a misconception where it's a misconception where, people see that and then he goes stretches with kind of disappearing and they're like oh he's not trying and I don't think it's simple as that I think it's like

I remember this happened with the Cidines here in Vancouver where in their prime every single night they were just massacring teams yeah and then when they got older every other game they do it and then the following season it'll be like every third game and it's like you just can't bring your A game every night because you're just physically declining and

Jamie Ben's an old 30 yeah let's just let's just be honest about that like it's an old 30 A played this physical style that wears down on being that punishing also, you're also in the collision. And the other thing, too, is, and I'm not saying, like, his points didn't decline that much after the Ross season,

but he had double hip surgery after that. And those type of things just start to add up here and there and here and there until he's an old 30. Like, he is, he's probably, like, if you're going to put a real age, yeah. He's probably. He's the body of like a 38-year-old. Yeah, probably, yeah.

Like, seriously. I mean, go back and watch those highlights from those, peak Jamie Ben seasons. It's a lot of like he's just carrying along other players like physically for the right towards the net. And he was just so big and strong that we would kind of like be like marvel at it. Yeah. And referees wouldn't even know how to officiate it because like they're like, all right,

if he falls here, I'm going to call a penalty. But he's so strong. Is it, is the guy really hooking him in it? But it's like all of that kind of adds up. And, you know, when you look at the shot rates, it's kind of crazy to me. In 2014, when I agree, I think he was like kind of at his peak. Yeah. He was 19.4 shot attempts per.

for 60, 10.7 shots on goal per 60 individually. Those clips have fallen to 12.4 and 6.3. Like, it's like, it's almost cut in half. Yeah. And it's tough. I mean, he's 30. He has a contract, which I remember last year we were like, they're not going to move him because he's the captain of what he's meant to the franchise,

but could they still get fair value in the trade market at this point? It's like, he's immovable. Yeah. Like he's immovable. No one would pay. Well, okay, enough about his skating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The contract is also.

moveable. Yeah, there's no way, and I get this all the time from people of like, oh, well, someone should look into trying to trade him, they should try and trade him and see what the offers are. He's like a full no move, so he doesn't want to go anywhere anyway. And on top of that, no one's going to take a $9.85 million cap hit for some more years. Yeah, for five more years and has one goal in 18 games. Like, if this is the sample size of what Jamie Ben truly is, no one's taking that ever yeah it's tough um but kind of this is where they're at and and i guess the one saving grace here for them is like when i look at this team um i'm really fascinated to see what their future holds in terms of what they look like in like 2023 i mean who knows maybe the

hl won't even exist who knows what we're all going to be doing by then but yeah like the window for this team is right now and that's why um you know we can talk more about pavelsky in his place so far and where he's at in his career but i wasn't like i mean i thought he'd signed for more years with someone than he did. I thought the fact that the stars got him for the three years or whatever they did was a good piece of business. As far as I know, from what I've heard in just looking back on it and talking to people this year, what I keep hearing is that there were other teams that offered more, but they were, it would have been a deal with where Zuccarella went to a Minnesota, where it was like,

Minnesota is not really going to end that window to win right now. And there's other teams that offered less. Like I heard something along the lines where Colorado was really interested in Pavelsky, but only for two years. Yeah. But, and so I think I like the Pavelski deal. I think it's something that I really, I've liked it even more so in the last five, six games. He's played better. Yeah.

He's played better. And I think the other thing that is, the other thing this team needed, and this is not to rip on Jamie Ben, but the stars needed more of that vocal leader that can go and handle things. both publicly and in the locker room in a more public setting. And we've seen the mic'd-up clips where Jamie is very talkative on the ice and all that stuff. But just like little things I noticed the other night where it's like, so we go back to Justin Daly. He scores the really nice goal. He's playing in his hometown.

And he takes warm-ups without, he goes no bucket for warm-ups. And typically you're not going warm-ups, you're not going no bucket for warm-ups unless you've played like 100 games in your career. Like you don't get that right to go do that, where someone else in the locker room jokes to Dally and you're going to go, bucket and Pavelsky chimes in. He's like, heck yeah, he's going no bucket. Right. And then Pavelsky's like getting the kid all excited. And then the kid, Downing's 29.

Right. But he's getting... Young Joe Povowski and young Justin Downer. Yes, but he's getting him all excited in his hometown and everything like that. Things that were I think we see a lot of that with Pavelsky where he's more of that vocal leader where Ben's more of the, I'm going to lead by example, I'll talk when I need to. Sagan, I think, is kind of similar in that way, actually.

Like, while he's good with the media, he's not really the stand up and demand the spotlight in the locker room guy. So I've liked the Pavelski contract more and more because of that. And I think his Uvindra Lion play, we've seen what he can do with him and Dennis Gourianov have found a really good mix, where it's, Guryanov is not an easy player to play with because when you're playing with a guy who goes mock speed every time, you have to know where to go and you have to know where to put the puck. Right. And there's been other players who I've watched Gurion of playing the HL. I've watched players who, like there was a time I watched Jason Dickinson, Senator Dennis Gurion, where they can't play with him because they don't have the passing skill

and they don't have the foresight to realize what the kid's going to do. Pavelsky's been able to read off that and say, okay, like the goal the other night, I know where to go. I don't need to be fast, but I know where I need to go. Sponsoring today's episode of the Hockey Pediocast is Seatkeek. If you feel like ticketing websites make getting to the event difficult on purpose, you're not alone. I've found in the past that it's a really stressful process. And honestly, it can sometimes be a barrier

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On my list, though, this is like the ultimate, like, kind of like hipster thing. Okay. There's certainly, I enjoy watching Connor McDavid. Yes, yeah. Okay. Nathan McKinnon. Yeah. But in terms of, like, random players that, like, I'd say 70% of fans probably don't know who they are.

Dennis Gariano is one of my favorite players to watch for exactly what you've said. Yeah. He is an absolute lunatic out there. Yes. And I understand that must be, uh, frustrating for the coaching staff at times, uh, frustrating for his teammates because, knowing when to take something off your basketball and mix in a change up here or there certainly goes a long way in this game but um one of my frustrations of jim montgomery has been

his usage because i think goryana of really gives this team an element especially with hints out of the lineup right now of like a certain level of dynamic play that a lot of the other players just unfortunately whether it's physically or whether it's talent wise can't bring to a table and so i love that like he provides this kind of curveball to keep with with this uh baseball metaphor I'm going with here where it's like you just throw him out there and you're just like who knows what's going to happen. But he's been playing really well this year. And maybe he's one of those players. It's a bit of a, this is one of the issues maybe with the just pure eye test or a kind of confirmation bias that comes with it because it's like when you notice him, you really notice him.

You really notice him because he's doing something crazy. Yeah. And then there's shifts where he's either doing nothing or doing something negative. And you don't really notice because you're like, oh, Dennis Gariana is not doing his. Dennis Gariano of thing. But the underlying numbers have been just as good. And now he's being sheltered like crazy. And I think Montgomery's doing a good job in that regard.

But he's also like their 11th most used forward at 5 o 5 or something. He should play more minutes. On this team, he should play more minutes. Yeah, I think that's completely fair. He should play more minutes. He's someone who, Denny's a great guy too. He's, he is the, Dennis Gurionov is the kind of crazy, actually this is a good way to put

Dennis Garionov is like the more refined crazy version of Alexander Radjulov Okay So like you have the Alexander Radjulov who Um is just loud

and boisterous and And you have He's the Tasmanian devil Yeah Guryano is like if the Tasmanian devil like went to prep school And because Dennis Garianov already has the equivalent

of a law degree Right in Russia and he already has told me that he's already is equivalent of law degree in Russia. He already plans to be a sports agent at the end of his career. The kid has two or three degrees already, like back in Russia. And when he came over to the U.S., he met with an English tutor like every other day down in Austin and still did recently. And he's like, he's the, like, you look at his play and you think, and you think of what he might be like.

And then you talk to him off the ice and you're like, this kid's really book smart. Like this kid is just a fascinating human, too. Like he's... Well, he's an interesting reminder of how perspective's important with prospects sometimes, right? Because he goes, he was a lottery pick, I believe, right? He was definitely first round, but I think he was like top 15. Yeah, was he 13?

13, 14, yeah. So, I mean, like, he was a pretty significant draft capital investment for the stars. And I think we've gotten a bit sort of spoiled by recent years, in recent years where the he's getting younger. Players are making an impact sooner. And so we just expect everyone to, as an 18, 19-year-old rookie, come in and light the world on fire. And then this guy, a couple of years, he's bouncing around, he's in the AHL, it's

taken a while for him to get here. He's still only, like, 22 years old or something. Yeah, there's only 22. And I think he's already proven without a shadow of doubt that he's too good for the HL, like just based on his production in the past couple years. And I just think, like, he might make his mistakes, but he provides such a, he, I think he elevates this team's ceiling where they have very few players. they can like just physically out of nowhere create something they don't have many game

breakers and exactly that's a great way to put it and i think he is he might not do it as often as you'd like or he might make some head scratching mistakes but it just it's it's kind of like it throws a wrench into things that i think this team does need yeah it's like the game where he had the he scored the two goals on the backhand where he comes down and that's a play that realistically on the stars roster maybe radjolov and hints are the only two that make that play like just really like just really like Like, you're looking at it realistically. Like, I mean, obviously Sagan and Ben at their peak could create in different ways.

But that dash burn the guy completely and wire the backhand bar down. That's not a play a lot of guys can make. Well, and the recent pairing with him and Pavelski is interesting to me because you mentioned sort of the savvy of Povetsky knowing where to go. It kind of balances them out. We generally think of like, you see a guy Gleronov and he goes so fast. You're like, all right, well, you need to play fast guys with him to keep up. but especially the game so much of it is like played in half like kind of like slow it down five and five on the offensive zone at least and it's like i like that kind of mix of like pevelsky's gonna be around the net

and then you like goryanov just retrieve the puck and create absolute mayhem for me i really like those two the key for the stars and if you talk about like building consistent lines and stuff like the key is figuring out who is that third guy that fits with them and they've tried to like nick kamano like kid and this is not to rip on a kid who just got called up from the a hl but nick camano should not be on the line with Dennis Gariano of and Joe Pavelski like he was the other night. More like Nick, come on now. Come on now. Come on now.

Here we go. I like maybe even like Matias Yanmark had a decent start to the season, but Matias Janmark is just speed. That's all he is. He doesn't really have the, like so it's kind of figuring out, to me is figuring out who's that third guy to play with Pavlowski and Gariano because I really like them together. and maybe that's, I don't know, there's time, maybe that's, I don't know, you can do Radjlov with them, or I don't know, there's a couple of things you could try, but I think you're trying to figure out who that third, because that could be a dynamic line if you found a third guy to stick with them and actually roll with it, because Montgomery is someone while he has juggled lots of things, he has admitted, he wants to find that consistency. That's why he has the, the, the Cogliano Faxacomo line. They're always together because they play the same game, all. always together. They're not jumbled in and out. So if they found the right fit, that could be,

whether you call it a second line, whatever you want to call it. It could be huge to this team's ceiling, as you kind of said earlier. Well, that's the thing I keep going back to with the stars. I think they know who they are in the sense that we've seen in this recent stretch, like they want to kind of grind it out and win these low-scoring games. But then they have these players like Gryonov, like hints. I think even Radulov, although he's, you could say in that kind of 5-1-5 game, he'll play fine anywhere. But I think even he benefits sometimes from this kind of like helter-skelter, unproductive nature where like he can just,

his talent shines through. And then obviously with Heiskenen and in Klingberg. So that's what I keep coming back to where it's like this team plays like a bottom 10 team in terms of team speed and pace. But I don't think they have that type of a roster. So that's kind of what we started this conversation. Yeah, no. And it goes back to the biggest issue.

you that Jim Montgomery admitted at the beginning of the season, and it's, it's turned into coach, I think it turned into coach speaking. Before the season started, he talked to me about how the stars were relentless without the puck last season, which is completely fair. And they just needed to be relentless with the puck this season. Relentless is the word he likes to use. That's his buzzword. Every coach has their buzzwords, right? And the, uh, they're not relentless with the puck as a group. Like, they're not. That's just, it doesn't, it doesn't fit in that way. Like, that's just not how they've played.

And while they may say they played a rather good, like, they talked about the game against Calgary their night where they played a rather good team game and the way they want to play and everything like that, it was still a boring hockey game. Oh my God, that game. Like, it was still, like, it was a rather boring hockey game. As soon as they went up, like, I could feel the life being sucked out of the game. And I'm sure Jim Montgomery was on the bench just, like, loving it because that's what he wants to see as a coach.

Yeah, they're playing. I mean, it's, they're playing every game, like, he's coaching every game, and the team tends to play every game like they're playing game seven again. Like, they're playing, like, we have to limit the mistakes to where we aren't going to lose, because the season will end. And it's okay to open it up a little bit more. Yeah. Well, yeah, I guess that was my question. And like, because it's easy for me to be like, I would open it up because they have exciting players and they should be playing faster and should be playing better. But it goes back to that thing where I kind of said earlier where there's your system's good for some guys.

And then there's some other guys who need to be able to live on that sliding scale. And the problem is their most important players are the guys you could argue the system is not good for. Like when you're like, oh, this system is good for Blake Como and Andrew Cogliano. It's like, well, you can find those guys. But you don't need you don't need Jamie Ben and Tyler Sagan to play the same game that play Como and Andrew Cagliano do. You don't need that.

That's not something that, like, you can have a system with multifacets. Of course. And I think that's the, and the other thing, too, is it's easy to just go say, it's easy to blame players because obviously the Starz Organization has done it quite a bit.

But it's, Jamie Ben has one goal. I mean, I know Rope Hintz is a completely different player, but Rope Hins has nine, nine, yeah, nine goals now. And it still leads a team in score. And Alexander Radulov has six. And, I mean, so it's not stopping guys from score. And like, so part of it, to me, still does fall back on,

you have got these start players who should be able to score no matter what the system they're in. Now, obviously, there's some systems that would unlock. them better than others, which is a whole other topic. But it's they, Tyler Sagan should be, should have more than three goals no matter what the coach is telling him to do, just frankly with his talent. No, I think that's very fair to say.

You haven't talked about the goaltending yet. I guess it kind of, it ties into this. And it's a big part of who the stars are because it is. It is. It is. The stars are a team who, we all know it. The goaltending held them back three years ago. In the year they won, they had the best record in the Western Conference.

It was Carri Lenton and Antonymi fell apart in the playoffs. And three years in the one Ken Hitchcock season, Ben Bishop's injury, Ben Bishop's injury led to Carlyton and falling apart and the stars missing the playoffs. And the stars are able to play the way they are because of how good their goalies are. You can't really jump around that. Ben Bishop is having some of his best years. He is having some of his best years, which is kind of impressive for someone who was a Vesna Trophy winner, not winner, sorry, Vesna Trophy finalists multiple times in Tampa.

And Anton Houdobin has been better than Anton Houdobin ever was. I think that kind of gets washed. I think that kind of gets forgotten, actually, when people take the 200-foot look from the Star's is because this crazy backup Kazagoli is one of the biggest, is maybe one of the team MVPs, because for the first time ever,

the Stars have trusted their backup. They don't need Bishop to play 60 games, and they don't look like when the backup's and they don't look like they're so scared to let up a shot that they can't play. So the goaltending is just a huge point for this team. And the defense has, and it's created assist. It's allowed them to kind of play this defensive system where they can give up. They don't give up much, but they know that they have the goaltending.

It's, it's, the goaltending is huge for this team. Yeah. Like it's, and I know that's huge for every team. Right. But for a team that scores as little. Dallas does because of how they play and because of player production and all that stuff. If not for the goal tending, kind of flipping a little bit of switch to around that Minnesota game, that's actually a perfect example.

So that game where they're down three nothing and come back to one six three gets Minnesota, Houdobin came in at the start of the second period. Right. He did, yeah. And then lights a fire under, it actually lit a fire under Bishop who comes out and plays rather well the next game in Colorado. Well, yeah, and it's huge because, um, You know, Dallas clearly, with the investment they have in Bishop for whatever three or more years, they have him under contract and his injury history and the fact that you know, it's different where like Boston, for example, or the Islanders, like the Bruins, the Islanders and the stars did this best last year.

I thought in terms of like this modern approach of like playing both your goalies, getting great results with a defensive system. Arizona did it well too, I think. They did. Yeah, they did. But when Anturanto went out, it was much more like Starzic Campers play every night. Right now they're going to do that. In theory it was before. They wanted to.

Exactly. But with the stars, it's a bit different where it's not like, you know, you're not playing Thomas Grice one night and then automatically Semyon Barlamov, the next night and going like that because while the stars will do that, there's also going to be a period of time the season where Ben Bishop's out for like two weeks. Like that's just, we unfortunately, you don't want to wish injury on a player, but it's just true. It just happens every year. Yeah. It happens every year. So having Hudobin there, where it's like for these two weeks, he's going to hold a fort and play well for us. And it makes it a lot easier playing behind Jim Montgomery's just a lot.

obviously, where I believe they're number one in both chances against and expected goals against. But making the stage is another thing. In one name we need to give credit to on all of this. It's the person who deserves a ton of credit for this system, and on the defensive end, it's Rick Bonus. Like, Rick Bonus is the, Rick Bonus runs the Star's defense. He is the, and he was the, he was an assistant coach in Tampa, too. And on the great Canucks team. Yeah, exactly.

And so he, he deserves a ton of credit. it for this too, where it is, like, it's Jim Montgomery is the head coach and gets all the, both the blame and the praise, because that's what happens with head coaches. Rick Bonas is someone who you look at what he's done for this team and you look at how he runs the defense, he deserves a ton of credit for helping create this from the back end. Yeah, no, he does, and it's sort of a concerted effort, but I don't know, I, I, it's interesting, it's a thought exercise because I think sometimes playoff successes or playoff failures can change

an organization so much right like it like overly so overly so but there's like there's as analytical as you want to be there is a human emotional psychological element where you react to whatever happened most recently right yeah so with this team it's like they went from being the most exciting high scoring fast-paced team under lindy rough to now this team that is the complete opposite

and they're pretty much equally successful I'd say. Yeah, and they, 100% thing, where they take a look at what happened with the year. So obviously, they needed better goal tending. That was after the, they needed the better goal tending, but they

that lost the St. Louis Blues. Not this one, not the one last year. The one from 2016 was one where they, and then the, obviously, the injuries start the next year and everything kind of falling down and falling apart. that led to the overcorrection of Ken Hitchcock. Yeah.

And Hitch deserves some credit for the things he did. The team, it helped some of the guys become better structured teams, but it put the team, it set up a template that Jim Montgomery kind of stepped into where the stars are still playing kind of Ken Hitchcock hockey with a little bit of a twist. And it was a template that was overly set because, well, we didn't, in the cup with this high flying back and forth style and then it exploded brilliantly the following season. So we have to completely go the other way. So how much of that do you think was Jim Nell? How much really think was ownership? How much really think is in between in terms of

that? In terms of that kind of reaction where it's like we cannot lose again with Carri Lennon and Antony and Nantemi giving up four or five goals against the game? I believe that I personally believe that ownership had way more influence on the Ken Hitchcock hire than the Jim Montgomery hire. Now, obviously, the GEM makes the hire, and if it went so far against Jim Nill's principle, we would have had, we would have had the story where Jim Nell would have stepped down or something like that and said, like, well, no, they're like. So, but I believe that Ken Hitchcock was more of a owner thought hire. I don't, getting someone to say that or ever proving that is very difficult, but it's a feeling I get.

And Jim Montgomery is more of the coach that, Jim Montgomery, the college coach, let's put it that way. Jim Montgomery, the college coach is way more of the coach that Jim Nill wanted to hire as far as someone untraditional came from a college route, maybe trust younger players a little bit more. That was the biggest issue with pitch, whether we can talk about the merits or demerits of defensive. The biggest issue was how younger.

player, he basically completely shelved younger players that, and he just didn't work. And so Jim Montgomery was supposed to be kind of more of that open voice, but Monty still has some of those key hitch elements in him. It's like he is, has that old school thought. He is, he is maybe a quote unquote young coach, but he has some old school personality about him where I laugh. Like, it's telling where, so I don't know if any,

People may have seen the clip where there was a game where Colin Montgomery is Jim Montgomery's son. He's like eight years old. And during the intermission, he's the goalie during the intermission shootout at the American Airlines Center. And I asked Monty after the game, I asked Monty after the game, hey, was that your son? And I'm just trying to confirm this fact for a story. And he says, yeah, was he horrible? I scoring him all the time at home. Like, like, we talk about different, like, if you just, it's a silly anecdote, but it's just to look into Jim Montgomery is, is, is blunt, he's brash, he's very from the old school style of coaching, old school style of parenting, it seems to. And that is very Ken Hitchcock like. Yeah. Like, I don't even know I made a good point there or not. I was kind of rabble. No, no, it is. It's fair because I think, yeah, sometimes, especially with college coaches, you know, and, you, and.

you look at their age and you're like okay well you know this guy's probably more more more modern more progressive and i'm sure he is than ken hitchcock but it's a lot of it comes back to like philosophy and sort of how you came up in terms of what you what you believe in or what you what you're comfortable with in terms of uh losing it i i think is the best way to put it because like if you i imagine for him it's like much more infuriating if they lose 5-4 than if they lose like 2-1 or it's like oh, you know, at least we kind of, we were responsible, we were reliable defensively. I think a lot of coached are like that, though. Of course.

And I think that's a big issue with hockey, I think, where it's a lot more conservative and a lot more like, let's try not to lose as opposed to let's try to win. And part of it is because winning is, winning is not important. Soul winning is not important until April. Right. Like it's if, and not that any team is going to make, no one's trying to go, oh, oh, and 82, but coaches are more concerned about getting points than wins. So it's, and that's a fundamental, I think, flaw.

And I don't know, I don't know if there's a way to change that, but it's just a fundamental flaw where coaches are more, coaches and the system looks at points versus wins. And as opposed to, like, the NBA, there's no point system. Right. You win or lose. Yeah. Like, if it goes to overtime, right. You win or lose. Yeah.

that's true well okay let's spin it forward then I think I think you know you mentioned April and I think that's a good segue here for us in terms of looking ahead where they're so stylistically different than I think two of the teams they are using as barometers in their own division

between the avalanche and the Predators where I think the avalanche are second and scoring the Predators are third or vice versa so they're both top five scoring teams so far as season and especially the Predators have had such a identity change this summer where they brought in Matthew Shane they get rid of PKK Sub-Band, I think they've opened it up much more, and they're playing that more kind of

aggressive, let's just try to outscore teams. David, David Poyle got crazy and gave out a second no-move clause. Wild times in Nashville. Wild time. But anyways, like, you know, we talk so much about how a style makes a fight. And as we look ahead to that, theoretically, they're probably going to have to go through at least one of those teams if they're going to advance in the playoffs in the first round. And last year they did so against Nashville, although Nashville was a much different team

in terms of the way they played. But I wonder if there's an element to that as well where they're like kind of, of looking ahead. It's like, okay, you're probably not going to beat the avalanche in a 6-5 game that often because they just have more talent when they're healthy. I just shook my head on a podcast, which is not a yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you're in agreement with me there. And so their path to victory against those teams probably will be much more sort of let's annoy the crap out of them and slow it down and try to win two one. Let's frustrate them win to one, grind them down. I think they actually have shown that. I mean, Colorado is sort of a shell of themselves at this point, regardless of how

But they beat Colorado twice. Yeah. And you could see, and part of it is McKinnon was frustrated by Miro Hishkinnan. That was actually the biggest dynamic of that game. If Dallas has a – now, it's going to be interesting to see when Colorado's fully healthy. Right. Because – because Dallas's not many teams have the defensemen who can skate like Heschkinnan to keep up with McKinnon. And that very much, pretty much, that frustrated McKinning-Quitty.

But it's going to be fascinating to see what happens when Randen and Atlantis Gagger out there and everything like that. But so Dallas has these pieces to really frustrate those guys. They're obviously, they're not going to outscore him 6-5. They're just don't have the. And the other part of this goes to just you look at the type of players that Dallas has built from within. They're not bad players, but they've overly produced middle six guys. Like, Radick Fox is a first-round pick. He's a good shutdown center.

Right. But he's not really much of an offensive threat. Jason Dickinson is someone who has been good on the forecheck recently, and I think can be a fill-in top six when somebody's hurt, but he's another first-round pick that's kind of more of a middle-six-spot-up guy. Matthias Yanmark is a guy who plays with good energy and stuff. Like, that's why Gariano. Actually, we talked about Gariana before.

like that's why Gary On of is such a revelation for this team because they have not found really any internal answers for for and created players that actually break games and it's I'm up hints in there as well oh yeah you know hints is definitely hints is a player I mean you want to talk actually it's funny you talk about foresight and giving the stars credit or something if they truly and I believe they did but if they truly placed the winter classic jersey orders last January when Rope Hintz only had five points, and the only orders they placed were Ben, Sagan, Radzlov, Bishop, Hins, and Heskinin, that's really like, that's incredible foresight by somebody in the front, by somebody in the marketing department.

Yeah. Well, they should have done Gurianov, is what I feel. Yes. Yes. Yeah, no, it's, so that's why it's going to be so fascinating to look ahead and look down the road in terms of when we reuse it those matchups in terms of how they line up with each other

and sort of, you're right, I think the stars play like a slow team, but they aren't a slow team. And on one hand, sometimes it works. Because I think there's times where Hince and Guryanov, the stars have slowed the other team into neutral so much, and then Hins and Goryonov go like that. And then it's like, where the hell did that I come from and the pucks in the back of your net?

So I think there's times where it's the old Ropa Dope. Yeah. No, but in terms of that foot speed, I think, if they do get dragged into more of a track meet, not necessarily high-scoring game, but in terms of like a skating game, I do think it's not the type of game where they're just going to be like a fish out of water. No, they could play it. Like they have the guys who could skate, like Ann Mark Cogliano. They can all skate.

They're not, they don't have the hands to match their foot speed, but they can skate. The defense, the defense skates well. Like, obviously, I think, obviously Hishkin and skates. tremendously well. Lindell is a better skater than people give him credit for. And obviously, Klingberg moves well. I keep thinking if, like, Stephen Johns was healthy. That would be a great thing for this team.

Now, whoever knows if he'll ever play again. Obviously, you hope he does, but dealing with the head stuff and everything. But he would have been the ideal, it's a minor tangent, but he would have been the ideal long-term partner for Hishkinen. Big right, big right-handed shot guy who moves well enough,

big heavy shot. I thought the Andre Secker signing was a nice little low-key one. I mean, obviously it was very low risk after he got bought out. They don't commit anything to it. And, you know, you know what you're going to get with him physically. He's already been banged up this season. But, like, just in terms of, like, getting a guy who could, like, potentially play on third pairing and, like, do stuff and not just be like,

okay, we're not going to just, like, we're going to do nothing for these third-paring minutes. So you can actually create something a little bit with the point. The problem is based on injury and necessity, he's played second pairing. Yeah. That's the problem. Yeah. Yeah.

Like he's, I think he's, I think for his contract, you know what, he's a very good player for his contract. It's one, I think it's 1.25 before bonuses and he could get up to two with bonuses, up to two with bonuses, I think is the total. But so he's a very good signing for the contract. It's just the question of, is he playing in the right role based on necessity? And right now he's probably elevated a bit higher. than he should be because of that.

Yeah. All right, well, let's get out of here. Wanna plug some stuff? What are you working on these days while you're in Western Canada on the road? Yeah, let's see. Well, obviously, Vancouver's a wonderful time to actually connect with the Starz Owner. So connected with actually before you and I met up today, I connected with Starz owner Tom Galardi. So I've got something on that coming out soon.

We're equally wealthy. We're equally wealthy. Yes, yes. What's your hotel chain named? We've got that. We've got that. I've got a fun Dennis Gerionov story to look forward to. Oh, I will be clicking the crap out of that. Yes, I have a fun Dennis Gurionov story coming out that's kind of off the beaten path. And yeah, that's what we've got going right now. And it's been, that's kind of things going in Starsland.

Yeah, well, I imagine they have kept you busy. Yes, very much so. For six, seven weeks. And yeah, we'll see. I mean, somewhere, it's what I said, like, the games they play and they want to play are boring. The actual overall results runoff. You look at them are so pedestrian, but the way they get there is very interesting. I've got a good way to compare the stars now that I've kind of used this comparison a couple times now. The stars used to be a team that they were your NHL TV, NHL-centered team or whatever.

They were number one for a couple years ago. Yeah, they were one that you went and watched because if you turned it on, in the third period, and it was six three, that game could end eight seven. Like, there was that. Now they're the team that you still pay attention to because I want to watch a close hockey game with five minutes left. They're going to be in a one goal game in the third period. And that creates its own drama. Now, that doesn't mean the first 55 minutes we're redeeming.

Right. So they've kind of gone from the reason to watch from being completely open in Crazy Town to, well, you know, it'll be close the way you watch a close college basketball. basketball game at the end. Yeah. Now, the 2019-20 Dallas stars, if you like close games, watch us. Yes, exactly.

All right, well, Sean, I'm glad we got to do this in person finally. This was a blast. You know what? If this franchise has taught me anything, it's that we will be having you back on the show to talk about

one thing or another. So I'm looking forward to that day. In the meantime, enjoy the rest of the season. And we'll chat soon. Yeah, happy to have on. Happy to be on. The Hockey PideoCast, Dimipovich.

Follow on Twitter at Dimm Philips Lopovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash HockeyPediocast.