The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 334: It's John Marino's World, We Just Live In It

Episode Date: January 14, 2020

Jesse Marshall joins the show to discuss how the Pittsburgh Penguins keep winning games despite losing players, how they've gotten the most out of young contributors like John Marino and Jared McCann, and how Sidney Crosby's injury has taught us that Evgeni Malkin still has his fastball. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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and joining me is my good buddy Jesse Marshall. Jesse, what's going on, man? How's it going? Good. It's good. We're going to try to record this podcast while staying healthy, staying off the injured list,

which for the Pittsburgh Penguins players these days hasn't been an easy task to do. But I'm excited to do this. People have noticed that I've been tweeting a lot about the Penguins lately, and I think for a good reason. I mean, for my money, you know, I think it's the best story

going on in hockey right now, just the sort of idea that they're losing all these guys, key contributors are just dropping like flies, but it's not mattering. They just keep racking up wins and doing so in impressive ways that are completely legitimate and sustainable at that. And so I think there's no shortage of storylines. And I'm excited to deep dive the penguins and get into it with you here today.

Yeah. To your point, I mean, you tweeted out a list today, I think, of players that had missed five or less games. And most of them had played in the American Hockey League at some point in the last year. It's kind of unbelievable. I'm driving the Mike Sullivan for Jack Adams train as hard as I can because I just don't think he's getting enough credit for the work that he's done. I know that people will point to Tristan Jari, for example, who in and of itself is a story and has done a phenomenal job and goal.

They'll point to, you know, of Gennie Malkin and Brian Ross to have in great years. But the fundamental behavior of this team, the way that they play, I guess, you know, quote unquote, intangible buy-in that they have to this system, et cetera, et cetera. That's all real. The behavior, the peripherals behind the scenes here, you know, the most predictable stuff that we have available to us says that this is not going to be an easy team to beat in a seven-game series. So I think people in Pittsburgh are kind of like coagulating around that finally and saying like, hey, it's okay to not be terrified, you know, given the sheer number of man games lost, things,

things might actually be okay here. Yeah, no, I mean, that list that you mentioned that I tweeted out. I mean, I'm not going to go through it because there are a number of names. names there but it's basically gotten to the point where you're you're better off just or it's easier to just talk about the guys who have been healthy as opposed to the litany of players who have missed time because it's gotten to be so extensive and you know with all due respect to you know that third quote unquote checkin line they have which has been playing remarkably well and john merino who are going to get into who were the drivers of the fan club i mean

those guys are playing well but i think if you came into this year you'd say that like the top six forwards basically they were that they were counting on and and the top three defensemen have all missed extended and significant periods of time and you know going from malcon missing the start of the year and then as soon as he comes back crosbie goes down and then okay malcon then gensel out this chemistry and now gensel's out for the year and and it always seems like it's something but the fact that it hasn't really resulted in any dip in play for them and and they kind of have this next man up a mentality um it's both it's both a cute story and it's something that you know penguins fans but also your casual observer can latch onto and really relate to and enjoy.

And at the same time, I'm glad you mentioned that, you know, those underlying numbers as well, point to the fact that there is something special here. It's not like one of those rag tag groups where, you know, the goalie just gets really hot and they're rattling off these wins, but we're all kind of keep waiting for, you know, the bottom to fall out from under them and the list of injuries to become so insurmountable that the winning is going to stop. Like in this case, I mean, clearly if they don't have Malkin and Crosby at the same time in the lineup, I think that's a different story. But as long as they have one of those guys in there, it seems like they can kind of make it work with all the other moving parts.

And part of that is the depth and the team and the assets that they've assembled. But a lot of it has to do with the fact that Mike Sullivan, as you mentioned, is just doing a great job of kind of pushing all the right buttons. Yeah, and let's think about John Marino for a second. who was having a phenomenal year and as a rookie looking like a you know, Paul Martin in 2013

I just think that you know, you have a situation now where Brian Dumlin who, you know, for my money, bar none, is the best defensive defenseman

on the hockey team night in and night out generally underappreciated around the league. I think we talked about it the last time I was on the podcast is just generally being you know, an underappreciated guy. He's out.

He's been out for a while. John Marino's, you know, not quite, you know, quote-unquote filled those minutes, but make no mistake without that trade, without John Marino on the roster right now, this thing may have gone off the rails at some point. I know it's big praise of a kid who's played 44 games in the National Hockey League and he's fresh out of college and it's still fairly raw. But that's the kind of poise you're talking about. I mean, the ability to step in, you know, for a guy like a Brian Duman and take that time and not sink.

You know, Jack Johnson's not an easy guy to play with. He's having his best, his best year analytically the last three years. But you watch the trends of this year and who he's played with in the way he's bounced around. Despite, you know, the difficulties, I think, that come and being paired with him in terms of, you know, his limitations on the breakout. John Marino is like the only player on the Penguins roster that's like. not anchored by him. And I think that alone, the ability to play with a guy who maybe forces you to have to be the one to carry the puck way more than you're used to even in that environment to not be

able to not miss a beat. That depth is, you know, that's the point of making here. That depth is throughout. And the penguins have gotten those contributions when somebody's gone down all the way through the lineup. It's been branded 10 of this last week. That's the flavor. that's the flavor of the week for him right well let's get into this marino thing i was going to save it for

later but um i can't contain my excitement and i think that uh we'd be selling the listener short if we didn't really devote uh the full amount of time to it i mean i really don't think that you can overstate his effect or sort of uh be be too hyperbolic about it i mean for me right now he's a clear cut top three calder pick uh you know clearly he doesn't have sort of the flashiness to his game and he's not going to put up the counting stats that Kale McCar and Quinn Hughes are going to have and I think that's ultimately going to limit his upside in that race but at the same time I mean just watching him from the eye test it's obscenely smooth I mean from the stick work to the positioning to sort of just the poise with the pocket and tight

spaces and the awareness of kind of where everyone else on the ice is I mean it's something that I know he's a bit of an older rookie he's 22 years old he's turning 23 this summer but given the the limited experience at an age level it's something you don't often see especially from a player at that position. And I think the interesting question here, because all of that seems totally legit, is sort of what the, as he grows more into his game, and as he becomes more confident and more empowered,

what sort of the next step for it is in terms of the offensive upside. Because I think that from watching him over the past couple weeks, I've noticed that he certainly become more willing. I'm not sure how much of that is the coaching staff sort of allowing him to do it, how much of it is like him feeling more secure in his position on the team, and the fact that he's getting all these reps under his belt, but he's really opening the game up and kind of trying new plays in terms of there's a play the other night.

I forget if it was against Arizona or against Colorado, but where he had kind of a shot, but then the shooting lane closed on him, and then he took the puck more short towards the net and showed off this kind of patience to let passing lanes open before he did something with it. And so if that continues to develop, I mean, the sky's a limit for him, but just the thing that I've noticed is, you know,

the ice time by month going from 17, 1919 per game in October to 255 to 2143 to 2212 here most recently in January Part of it is the injuries and the fact that without guys like Dumlin and Schultzter He's going to be asked to do more but I think part of it is also like he's playing so well that if you're Mike Sullivan You kind of can't help but just keep seeing what the sort of outer boundaries of his limits are because he's playing that well Yeah, so if you go back to camp and when he showed up to the team This is a post-trade and people started to get like you know a real good look at him in person It kind of was evident right out of the gate that there was something special about the way he

Carried and distributed the puck and sort of like his posture and I made note like I don't think he looked at the puck in training camp Like you know it's just never had to look and that's so important like to have your head up to survey the ice like that as such a young player It was really impressive and then the preseason one he started to get more time and more time and more time. And then Kevin Stevens was kind of run around being like, I told you so. And that was a big, Kevin Stevens is really the reason he's here in Pittsburgh.

You know, he was out east and he was doing the scouting. And obviously that team was chock full of talent, right? You know, Adam Fox, we know, John Marino wasn't necessarily the gem on display, but he's the guy that caught Kevin Stevens eye. You know, the penguins end up facilitating the trade. It goes through the preseason.

I think by the time you saw him the third time in the preseason, it was like, just play him. It was that evident to me at that point that he had at least earned himself, some kind of brief glimpse at the beginning of the season. They carried eight defensemen on the roster through the most, you know, first month until they could unload Eric and Branson. This is, you know, at the time right of getting him all kinds out, you've got an injury crisis at forward already. Brian Rust was out, right? He wasn't even in the lineup yet. And here the penguins are at a shortage of forward carrying 8D on the NHL club just so they can keep this kid in and give him ice time.

And to your point, when you look at the increase over time, I just think that he's got the goods of what makes a good two-way modern day puck distributing NHL defensemen. He can skate it himself. he's I think cognizant of when to take control of the puck and outlet it and when you know to force it out to afford I think he oftentimes hits the reset button completely and when he's in control of the breakout if he doesn't like what he sees he'll take a cruise back behind the net the forwards are just going to have to come back and try it again you know that's no skin off his back he's just that patience right that veteran patience and then I

think for me the most exciting part to watch the part that's been the best for him him is the way he controls the defensive blue line. And when forwards get to him, he's on them. He's got an active stick, a long reach, very rangy defenseman, and he attacks. He's not reactive. He's proactive. And he is a dog to get the puck around if you're an opposing forward because you know you're not going to have the time or their space.

Yeah, I really do think his game is pretty flawless from that perspective. And I don't know, maybe it's just I've been on hockey to whatever too long or I've and watch and broadcasts where when someone says like two-way, it always makes me think of like, oh, the guy's not actually that good offensively or whatever. We just kind of like say he's a pretty good player. For Marino in this case, I really do think that, you know, he's kind of been baby steps in this regard,

but both in terms of sort of the hockey sense and the awareness to jump in the play and also the physical tools with the skating that you mentioned and sort of the touch, I think he's got much more to his offensive game than he's shown so far. And, you know, it's easy for a young player when they're throwing. in and you know they're really their minutes are very well manicured and the coach is making sure to only get them out there in their most advantageous situations for them i mean you know whether it's playing 175 or so minutes with jack johnson and now uh paired with marcus petters and they're basically playing uh with that checking line as sort of the de facto shutdown pair like he's been

really thrown into the deep end and still has you know expected goals and shot shares in north of 56 and so for a young defenseman to have that type of a workload and and thrive as much as he has so far. I mean, it's crazy. Like I said, he's not going to be in the same breath as, as Hughes and McCar, but he's right there with, you know, Adam Fox in that next year.

And I think that people are slowly coming around to it. It went from kind of like a fun little story and all this guy's got a last name we're aware of to all of a sudden, like, oh, he's actually kind of good to now, like, holy shit, he's just, he's the real deal. 100%. And you made the comment earlier, you know, about some of the things he's been doing over the course

the last couple weeks. I mean, I can't even remember what game it was that he pulled a spin-a-rom on the It was the sun. It was the game, I think. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah. And so I do attribute some of that to Marcus Pedersen. I think if Ford's John Marino a freedom that he maybe didn't have with Jack Johnson,

the two of them are both really good at getting the puck up the ice. I think Marino may already be better than Marcus Pedersen in that regard. But Pedersen's no slouch. I think if Pedersen has a downside. It's maybe he runs himself headfirst into trouble one too many times with the puck on his stick. But watching the two of them work together has been awesome because I think if you're game planning, and this is for me, this is the problem with Chris LaTang right now. When you're game planning from an opposition's perspective and you have a pairing of Jack Johnson and Chris LaTang, who do you want as an opposing coach carrying the puck out of those two? Obviously, Jack Johnson, right?

So you're going to do everything you can on your forecheck to try to make that happen and to take Chris LaTang out of it, or at least if nothing else, make his job harder, right? Now, that's not to excuse Lettang who's had his rough patches the last couple weeks, but that, my point being, if you're looking at John Marito and Marcus Pedersen, we'll pick one now, right? Yep. There's really no good option. And I think the two of them playing patty cake with each other in the defensive zone and kind of working it up in a puck support fashion has really freed the Penguins' offense up in a lot of ways to find new and innovative ways to gain the blue line and start to attack. Really that engine being driven by those two on the back end. Well, I think especially when Charlott's and Dumlin come back, it's really going to open so many doors for them in terms of getting creative and mixing and matching and end. having enough horses on the on the back end there to play the way they want to play and that's what

stuck out of me watching this year it's really gotten back to very reminiscent of when mike selvin first took over in 2015-16 when they sort of made us all think about how different it is to be fast skaters versus play fast in terms like decision-making and moving the puck and and that's what's really stuck out to me watching this year it feels like they've really gotten back to those sort of roots of just this kind of like relentless wave the depth they have the forecheck the ability to just never allow the opposition to rest up and so um it's a combination of solomon obviously and and the personnel they actually have right now but having at least we know more than one uh reliable defender to be able to move the puck is gonna i'm sure be uh you know a really interesting wrinkle for this team

because that's not something we've been able to say about them in the past even when they were winning down the cups. Now they won't do this, okay? So let me preface what I'm about to tell you with the Mike Sullivan will not do this. What I would love to see though, I think you put with Heng and Dumlin back together, right? Because that's just, that's common sense. I don't see a reason to break that second pairing up. And I think that you could be, this sounds funny, but again, I want to be very clear that Jack Johnson has not killed the Penguins this year. And most of the performance, that he's turned in, if nothing else, has been at least average, which you can live with. The best performance the Penguins ever got had a Justin Schultz was on the third pairing.

I think that's where Jack Johnson, you know, kind of ultimately is going to give you his best performance. You can babysit those two a little bit, kind of deploy them and whatever strength you feel would be necessary. And all of a sudden, that's a really good third pairing. I do think Marino and Pedersen get split up is ultimately what happens. I don't know where Jack Johnson lands after Brian Dumlin comes back. But I just, to me, I think the penguins feel very strongly about not railroading Justin Schultz.

He's not going to resign in Pittsburgh, probably. They're probably not going to keep him. But I know they also feel very strongly about, you know, probably not wanting to ruin his opportunity to make money somewhere else. So I think that's one of the drivers, I think, behind, you know, maybe wanting to showcase him a little bit more. And he's perfectly suited for that sort of sheltered third pairing role. I like that a lot. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's been so fascinating. We're like 20 minutes into this show almost,

and we haven't really talked about Crosby and Muckin yet. And I guess that lends itself to the special Penguins team this year and all the different players that you can latch onto and discuss and sort of highlight their contributions. But, you know, with Crosby out, I mean, this Penguins team going 19, 6, and 4 with a very positive goal differential. then, you know, kind of exemplified with this tricky West road trip they just had, which was, which they had a clean sweep and played some really strong games, I thought, against

some pretty significant competition. And just watching Malk. And, I mean, it's not, not necessarily any surprise that he elevates his game on Crosby's not out there. They flash some stat on the most recent broadcast where he has like 198 points and 146 career games without Crosby or something I've seen like that. But for him to do it this year, I feel. like is a slightly bigger deal just because of how I thought he sort of looked pedestrian relative

to his obviously his own lofty standards last year but I thought that you know given the mileage the age the sort of injury history that it kind of totaled itself over the years I did think it was fair to wonder how much of that fastball he had left and like when he needed to reach back what he could ultimately get to for an extended period of time and I think he's certainly whatever happened this summer in terms of the motivations from the year past or whether you have mixed with his training or what have you. It's clear that he's alleviated a lot of those concerns, a lot of those questions,

and he's really sort of kind of went super sane and taken his game to a next level without Crosby in the lineup. Yeah, I think, for me anyway, it's been a much more cerebral of Gennie Malkin in terms of the way he distributes the puck. I think that you've seen a level of creativity from him in the offensive zone.

zone that we didn't see it all last year. The extended offensive shifts from his line have been again a hallmark that, you know, didn't really appear last year. I just think that people are going to hate me for saying this. And that's fair because everybody loves Phil Kessel. And I'm not here to spin you any tale about how bad Phil Kessel was defensively because that's not true or, you know, blah, blah, blah. I just think that Phil Kessel and Hivgeny Malkin were like oil and water sometimes. Phil Kessel being a guy that really wants the puck all the time. And Phil Kessel loved to shoot the puck as well he should given how good he is at it.

But a lot of times Phil misses the net and it goes off the glass and you got to regroup. And there's an element. That's what, I mean, for me, it was never surprising to see Phil Kessel consistently, despite all the goals he scored and everything else, have just bad possession and expected goal metrics. because he was kind of like a one and done score in terms of how he generated his chances. And I think that that ultimately, it just didn't jive with Evgeny Malkin. It didn't.

And they tried it. It didn't work. I think it frustrated both of them. It was nobody's fault. It just works like that sometimes. And I think that Malkin right now is kind of like realizing I'm not going to one on four this anymore, right? I can't come across the blue line with speed

and go through three guys like I used to. So I'm going to go in and I'm going to change the pace. I'm going to speed up. I'm going to slow down. I'm going to use my body. I'm going to create space for myself and my teammates and then we'll go from there. And I think that's the biggest difference. It's kind of like this sort of focused control and a little bit more of a mindfulness that you just, you know, again, not to say he was awful last year,

but I think those were elements that he was, they weren't on display and it hampered his game and they're gone. Well, you've seen it all across the ice. Like he's so talented as both a passer and a shooter that he can get away with kind of being lazy or just kind of focusing on the offensive side of things when he's in the attacking zone and still be a net positive. But what I've seen from him, especially over the past like 15, 20 games, is just what you alluded to. They're kind of that relentless, you know, engaged game where he's really been just hounding the puck. There's been countless examples in recent games where he's going back. And, you know, either in the back check or sort of in the neutral zone,

just basically dislodging a player from a puck and taking it back for himself and getting it back in the offensive zone and playing that full-ice game. And so that's been really fun to see. You know, you can obviously always have the penalty minutes with him. And he's going to take sloppy penalties and he certainly has done so again this year. But that's kind of been the story of his career. You take the good with the bad because the good is so great. And the offense is one thing.

I think what's really stuck out for me is, is how he's translated his game to those other levels that I just discussed. And so I don't know, it's, I think the combination of this vintage performance of him and him showing that he still has it, plus all of those kind of end of decade reviews, kind of got me thinking, how we'll remember his career and sort of how differently it would have gone

if he had had his own team from the jump. And if he'd always got to play with the best wingers, I don't know, it might be sort of an old or kind of a story that we've beaten to the ground because every year this kind of happens. We bring that up again. but the combination of those two things and sort of the recency of it really made me just wonder whether because i know i'm sure people in pittsburgh appreciate him but i think league wide even i mean you look this

year he's not getting any real buzz for the MVP lists he's not going to make the all-star game the top hundred player joke thing aside like it does feel like he does kind of hang in the shadows and not get the love he deserves league wide for a player that's producing both offensively and just territorially as he has this season without Crosby in the lineup. Yeah, I mean, and you've talked a lot about like these different elements of his game that, you know, he's just been lights out on. And I'll just point to another one real quick that's always been sort of like an area of criticism. This is his work in the faceoff circle over recent, you know, last couple of early since Crosby's in the lineup, you know, it's never been better

for him. This is like a career good run. So even down to something meta like that, I think it's you know it speaks to the leadership that he's gotten and sort of the you know in the same way as Crosby does it you know it's not raw Ross like you know let's go get him boys it's I'm just going to get it done on the ice and you just follow me you know we'll just you know do as I do you know type situation so I don't get the whole lack of hype thing because he's got such like I don't first of all I don't think he minds it how about that and then the other things his personality is huge you know i don't know if people may not know this and i'm going to mention it only because if you haven't seen it it's worth looking it up um when crosbie went out of the

lineup that you know malcon's got his press scrum and talking about he's ready to lead the team you know he needs to be he needs to be on fire um and the fire alarm like went off in ppg paints arena and um you know malcon's in the press group going don't worry it's just me it's me i'm on fire It was my analogy. It's my analogy, you know. Like, he's hilarious. So, yeah, I don't know what it is, but, you know, I can tell you that, you know, that sort of hypothetical, you know, what if is not something anybody in Pittsburgh is all that worried about. There's no shortage of appreciation here.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of those, speaking of, like, the comedic side of it, I think one of my favorite low-key YouTube videos of his is, I forget what the milestone was. but like Mark Andre Florea was going to set some sort of a Penguins record or something for like games won or I forget what it was exactly. But then like they asked walking about it and he's just like, I just don't get how he's done it. Like I score him in practice so much. And obviously it's kind of tongue in cheek as well. But just I feel like we have.

He said exact quote to me, every time I shoot goal. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And the funny thing is, is like just because of his tone, I guess, and some things get lost in translation, like it comes across as sort of very serious. but he's clearly, you know, poking fun at his teammate, but we haven't really, I think, fully either embraced or gotten the full scope of that sense of humor and personality nationally for a variety of reasons compared to a guy like Ovechkin, I think, where it's much more sort of out in the open

and in your face, and it feels like both because he is so much the face of that franchise, but also because of other things, it's everyone's kind of familiar with it, whereas Malkins is a bit more subtle, I think. Yeah, yeah, it is. But I, you know, I think back to, you know, how earlier this year, you know, it's just Alex Gauchinochino shows up. He just got traded, you know, this whole, you know, blockbuster deal has gone down. Guys are finally getting in the rank and starting to work out with each other.

And Gauchenuk only had four sticks. That was it, right, four sticks with him. The Penguins don't have any of his gear. We just got traded there. It's still summer. And he and Hivgeny Malkin are working out together. and I don't Gauchana, it's like very particular about these sticks, right?

So it's going to make these things last until everything else gets there and can be set up for him. And, uh, he'll get any Malkins like, can I try these sticks out? And he's like, I mean, I guess, yeah. And then, uh, he liked him. He just took two and just left.

And then Alex Gatchez, like, now, like, like, I have half my sticks, you know? And everybody's like, what happened to your stuff? He's like, I guess Malkin liked that stick. He's just left. How is it? So, you know, it's just, it's just one of the things, man. It's like, I guess as time goes on, you know, I think you're finally starting to

think rightfully see like to your point earlier. Some of the, you know, bad tropes about him get shook. You know, I, especially from the defensive perspective. You know, this is in a situation where he's just, he's putting up numbers defensively because he's got the puck so much. I think you can watch it on tape. I think there's a legitimate, you know, legitimate growth. there for him that's been a necessary contributor to the team overall. It's translated all, whether it's, you're looking at the shot share, the expected goals or the chances. I mean, it's through the roof with Malkin on the ice and it checks out when you watch it.

All right, as the guest, I'll let you, because I've got a number of things I wanted to hit on here. I mean, whether it's McCann or Jerry or the checking line. I mean, I guess we can hit them all in order, but is there any of those three that you want to get to first in terms of talking points? I think we got to talk about Tristan Jari All right, let's do it Yeah It's tough because

You know, he was clearly a highly regarded prospect He was a second round pick So I think it's a bit overblown to say This is kind of like completely coming over I don't know where at the same time When a guy comes into the season with 29 career games And it does feel like I don't know how much merit to it was it

But certainly he could have been had For a pretty reasonable price If someone had thought he had anything resembling this in his game is it simple enough to be like this is just the latest reminder that goal tending position can be incredibly wild and unpredictable or is there some more to this not to diminish his performance obviously but when a guy kind of comes out of the blue like this and has a 932 save percentage 940 at 5 on 5 and his third and goal saved above average behind darcy kempra and ben bishop you kind

of raise your eyebrow clearly it wasn't something that i think even the penguins were probably banking on heading into the season. I think it's a great example of how pedigree sometimes takes time to grow. And that's pedic... We live in a world where like so many young players are so good right away, right? That's not true for everyone. Not everyone's development path, I think follows Zara out. Tristan Jari is so highly regarded that people forget that when the Penguins drafts at him

in his draft year, he was the backup to Laurent Braswa. He wasn't even the starter in Edmonton. So the Penguins felt so strongly about his pedigree that they took him, having only seen him for basically a quarter of the games that season. Didn't even have evidence of his ability to take a full workload at the CHL level. And then the next year they won the Memorial Cup. So it was like, okay, you know, that investment, that was the right investment. Like, good job. And then I think what happened was it was out of sight, out of mind.

Well, there was no chance that Tristan Jari was breaking into this team early on as a pro with, Mark Andre Fleury and Matt Murray in front of him, right? That's not going to happen. And then even after that, you know, with Matt Murray's kind of like injury situation and struggles, you know, Casey DeSmith was really good for a brief period of time, not this good. But he was okay. And I think the penguins were really just, were like, we just got to let Tristan Jory play, right? But there's no point in having him come up here and be a backup.

He's got to take, you know, these three games and four night trips down in the American hockey. And he did really well down there last year. He didn't post numbers. I think the problem was, is he didn't post numbers to pop off the page to you and scream like, oh my goodness, this is some kind of generational performance, you know. It was just really good. But it was out of sight, out of mind, right? We didn't see him.

And unless you had HL TV and you were sitting down and watching Wilkes-Barre Scranton, you didn't see him either. So it was one of those things that when he showed up to camp and he looked so much better, people thought that maybe there was something to this, like they were showcasing him for trade still. No, I think the Penguins just really felt that he was the second best goaltender on the roster at that point and had a chance to, you know, grow his game this season. And my goodness, I don't think anybody could have predicted this.

But, you know, it just, again, I think it's, for me, it's a good reminder of how long term some of these investments in the draft can be. You know, I mean, remember, like I said, the Penguins felt so strongly about him. but they took them basically blind, and it's paid off, but not overnight. And that's just the reality of how it works sometimes. I think that that patience is something that I think we've all sort of lost sight of, I think, in some ways as far as development, it's concerned.

Certainly. And I think it's obviously a good problem to have where you can, as long as it keeps playing like this, you just ride the hot hand. I think it was similar to last year, actually. I don't think Casey DeSmith had these highs per se, and it felt like it was much more unsustainable just because it kind of burst in out know where even more so than Jerry is so far but um even at the time i remember it was like all right well you know affords them the luxury to bring murray along slowly let him figure it out i i still think

he's going to be heard from and and that certainly played out in the second half now the fascinating thing here is i think the penguins are very clearly um you know had their eyes on the prize this season they're one of the better teams i think they're going to focus on whatever gives them the best chance to win this season and go far in the playoffs. But it just spinning it forward and thinking ahead and kind of viewing the big picture with the fact that both of them, both Jerry and Marie, are coming up as RFA's looking for new deals this summer. I think let's say this keeps going the way it has so far.

Maybe Jerry comes back down on Earth a little bit, but still has like a 925 save percentage by years. Andan has played slightly, you know, around half of the team's games. It's going to be super interesting to see how they handle that. this summer with the negotiations and how willing they are and i think the the dollar figures are clearly going to tell us where they stand but just sort of how they uh how they view both guys in the grand scheme of things yeah and then you of seattle knocking on the door um and the potential for the penguins to lose one of them again to an expansion draft so we've come full like time as a flat circle rust coal

true detective type situation here um yeah no i mean i i i don't think that i don't get the sense that the penguins have any concern about Matt Murray. I think the problem right now is trying to get him time while also trying to win the division and, you know, keep these games, these magnitude-type games, you know, without Sidney Crosby and without these star players, you know, as win a ball as possible. And the reality is that Tristan Jari gives you a better chance to do that. So I don't think the penguins have in any sense given up or are concerned about Matt Murray. I also don't get the sense that the penguins are concerned about Tristan Jari's sustainability. Again, I don't think they're thinking he's going to go through, you know,

post in 963, some bizarre C-percentage breaking shutout street records all year long. But I think they're very comfortable if they have to go this route into the postseason. And why not, given the sample size they have so far? Man, I want to get to McCann here for a bit because, you know, obviously seeing him, I was covering the Canucks full time when they drafted him and following the early part of his career. And I was talking to someone, I don't think it was on a podcast, I think it was kind of just like a private conversation with someone in the league. And McCann came up and we were talking about his career arc. And it's so fascinating to think about like the fact that this is a guy who's 23.

And, you know, you were just mentioning with Jerry how long it takes sometimes for a draft pick to realize their potential or live up to that pedigree. finally provide something of value to the team that drafts them for mccann he's basically already at this point of his career still being younger than jerry is now he gets one taken one pick ahead of david pasternak he gets rushed into the nchl as a 19 year old when he probably wasn't ready physically then after that one year where he kind of struggles as a teenager he gets dealt for ergoon good branson and then he gets dealt to pittsburg as essentially part of a salary dump trade so the panthers can open up as much room as they can to overpay a goalie. Who's not paying off right now.

He's not good. Yeah. Yeah. And so he goes throughout the entire cycle and now you got a guy who's 23 who's, you know, he scored 19 goals earlier last year. I think he's probably going to score like low 20s, maybe even up to 25 this year. Just a really good solid player who can slot into that kind of middle six down the middle and bump to the wing because his shot is that good.

And you've got him on this cost-controlled contract. And it's just like, it's not ultimate. ultimately, you know, a deal breaker in the grand scheme of things in terms of, like, oh, my God, teams that missed out on him or traded him away, this is going to completely undo their franchise. I don't think he's that caliber of player, but just like, because of that, it kind of gets swept under the rug. But I just wanted to shine some light on that career arc because I think it's one of the most, like, under-told stories from like, oh, my God, how did this many teams have them in their grasp and completely butcher it and just lose horribly in terms of value in the trade they made. I think the Penguins kind of, you know, this is one of the big reasons they've had such a staunch improvement this year. And it's not even a trade they made, you know, it's a trade they made, you know, last season, but we just didn't get to see it matriculate. I mean, there were flashes of it last year. But I mean, Jared McCann right now is like effective, extremely effective at both ends of the ice as a center. You know, they had him playing wing before that.

He transitioned smoothly over. He's played almost every forward position on the team since arriving here. Right now, rocking like what I think, 55% of expected goals, 55% of the shot attempts, every night out there creating scoring chances, really annoying, really annoying to play against. And I'll tell you what, I think, because it's so funny that you remind everybody that career arc, because people in Pittsburgh, it's like he just fell out of the sky, you know? It's like, how did we end up with this? I'll be honest, like, when he went in Florida, I didn't watch him a ton in Florida, and I kind of forgot about him.

You know, I mean, you forget where he was drafted in some of the hype that was around him. When he came to Pittsburgh, you know, you started to see him do things individually, you know, in a bottom six role where he's walking the puck out of the corner, putting it between somebody's legs and ringing it off the pipe. And you're like, whoa, where did that come from, you know? And now this year it's, you know, that offensive skill, it's just been on display and he's proved to be a really effective trigger man. A lot of his goals have been off one-timers or him in just prime positions where he can kind of get shots off from really compromised positions and situations. And that's been fun to watch. Well, I really thought heading into the year that he'd be the most enticingly used on Crosby's wing because of that combination we saw at times towards. into last year with Crosby's obvious generational playmaking and ability to get the puck to guys

exactly where they wanted and his finishing ability as a trigger man and a shooter from all over the ice and you know at the start of the year I think the penguins are a bit redis and do that just because he was playing so well down the middle and provided more value there but now with how well that third line is playing and walking firing on all cylinders I think when Crosby comes back in that might be something they revisit just because like it makes more sense to have them in the top six on a wing spot playing next to Crosby, then like playing third or fourth nine minutes as a center just

to basically just keep them down the middle. So I'm really curious to see what they do there when Crosby comes back in and how they make all the pieces work, but if you're Mike Sullivan, you must be just salivating of the thought that you have that kind of in your back pocket and you can do so when Crosby comes back. Yeah, I mean, you're

potentially looking I mean, Brandon Tenev has been as advertised you know, length. I think better I think, advertised, right? Yeah, probably. And I think people now are, like, can we add two more years to this deal?

Let's make it eight, you know, hell with it. You know, Zach Aston Reese for my money. I mean, you want a shocker. Go look up his numbers defensively. If he had any hands or any semblance of offensive skill, he'd be in the Selkei conversation. Yeah, I think the evolving wild guys have them. Yeah, they love.

Yeah, they have them in there. Yeah, the pure stats-based-only version, yeah. But, I mean, I think if you put Jared McCann on Alibn with Brandon, Tanna, and Zach Aston-Reece the way those two were playing right now, that's going to be a handful. And you think, again, and I hate to make all these, like, shouts to 2016, but that was the homework of that Penguins team was that HBK line, right? This is obviously a bit different. There's no Phil Kessel on the ice here. But a McCann and Tanna-Forcheck is going to be a real handful. And if you could deploy them in any number of ways, you could employ them, throw them on the ice.

If you need that momentum shift, if you're looking for a goal, you could throw them on the ice if you want them to smother somebody and shut them down defensively. I don't think there's anything that line can't do. I think the question about McCann as a wing, which I'm fine with, is what happens with Nick Buegstad when he comes back. I think he's one of the likely candidates to potentially be dealt in a search for Jim Rutherford to try to find some goals to help report. place Jake Gensel's loss. I think Gowchenyuk's another guy in that bucket. Probably the more likely candidate. But I think if there's faith that Buegstad can get a job done at center, I wouldn't

be shocked if you saw him on Crosby's wing. Yeah, the tough thing with playing with Tannen Evan Aston Reese is that Bluegar has been playing so well in that gig with those three guys and, you know, their numbers. I mean, I think McCann would give them, you don't want to mess up a good thing. the fact that that line has like eight goals total scored in terms of a five-and-five when they're playing together, I think, shrew illuminates both their usage because they are getting such heavily slanted defensive minutes and being asked to do so much and, you know, all their shot share numbers and shot profile is through the roof and they look great and one of the best defensive lines in the league,

but potentially squeezing some more offense out of that line if you could bring McAnon there without sacrificing a huge loss on the defensive end would help a long way. But you know, with Tanna, it's it's such an interesting conversation, I think, because I was right there with the biggest critics this summer. I mean, the idea of giving a 28-year-old with 24 career goals, a six-year deal with a no-trade clause, and the type of money that he got with 21-plus, 21 million, I think, overall throughout the span of the deal, I was like, this is an obscene signing, and I don't know what the hell is going on, and now Taneves look great, he's drawing a ton of penalties, kills penalties for the... Kel, you know, the penalty killer for this team,

the defensive value that I just mentioned, and he's chipping in offensively recently as well. I do think, like, both things can be true. You can still be critical of the deal while also acknowledging that the player is playing well. I think similarly to, like, what happened with the Canucks trading for J.T. Miller this season, for example,

where it's like he looks great playing with Pedersen and Bessor and certainly is better utilized playing more minutes on the Canucks than he was in the Lightning last year and has improved the Canucks this season. You can still quibble with, the with the logistics of like from a supply and demand perspective it's like the lightning had very little leverage and you're giving them an unprotected first when you probably could have gotten them for less i think similarly in this case without knowing what the full market was like for tannab

it's you can say that he's been playing well and he's been a welcome addition and a net positive for the penguins this season while also being like i don't know if we should have given him the exact details of that deal that we did to get him in the first place yeah and here's the other thing too is I think Jim Rutherford has exhibited a pension for overpaying for players that he really wants when there may not be like this huge bidding war for them. Like he slaps down an offer that's so lucrative, nobody else is even like, yeah, right. You know, I'm not giving out that contract. And for better or worse, you know, and I guess there's something to be said for a guy who goes

out and gets what he wants, but I think maybe a little bit more of a frugal way to do it. But you know what? Here's what I'll say. Patrick Cornquist has been unbelievable this season. Been great since coming back from injury. And you know, you think about all the things that make him go and the beating that he takes on a nightly basis at his age. You're not really, I mean, he's out of the lineup more than you'd like. I mean, his last injury was a frequenter.

He literally just fell because the ice was too fresh. So this is like a bizarre, you know, typical penguins thing. But my point being is that I think there's faith that this, level of play, while you certainly aren't going to take it into your 40s, is actually sustainable for a while, because we've seen Chris Coonis do it, or seeing Patrick Cornquist do it now. So, I mean, I think for the Penguins, there wasn't a whole lot of hesitation to throw that deal out because he's filling the role that they wanted, and it's a role very similar to the players, you know, I'll throw Pascal Dubuiz name in their two that played

really critical roles for this team and played for a really long time. And I kind of think Tano's just the next guy in line for that. I mean, looking ahead for this Penguins team, I think between now and the deadline, they have two games each against like the lightning, the Bruins, the capitals, like pretty much all of the Eastern elite. And I think we're going to combine with Crosby coming back and fitting in and seeing how all these pieces fit. I think Jim Rutherford and the Penguins are probably viewing the return of all those players as kind of this like de facto trade deadline acquisition where you're getting all of these contributors back and all of this offense in internal ways. at the same time, you mentioned Gal Chenyuk there earlier and just thinking

about potential upgrades or ways they could operate or maneuver around the deadline. I have a trade idea to pitch by you and I want to see what you think. Who says no to some deal involving Gal Chenyuk and some draft capital? I don't know.

We'll want to get into details of that for Brandon Sado with the Blackhawks. Who says no to that? I mean, that's everybody in Pittsburgh's dream. Yeah. I think it's like It makes too much sense. Yeah, it's the hometown connection. I think there was a reticence at first with the injury situation that he was in.

Same said for Jason Zucker, who's a player that Penguins have coveted since June. They've been trying to get Jason Zucker. Both those players were hurt. The injury situation was so bad. Trade targets were going down. Unprecedented. So both those players are on their way back now. I mean I ultimately think

that Sodd is 100% one of the players that Jim Rutherford's kind of look at his chops at Yeah I mean Zucker would be Obviously an amazing fit and a heck of a player I think the issue with that just from like a fit perspective Is he has so much future money coming to him Not that it's undeserved I mean he's gonna earn that contract

It's just like from the Penguins perspective I think Saad has the rest of this year And then he has next year at 6 million And it's much cleaner of a transaction especially with, I'm really curious to see what the market is like for Galanganguk because I think he's clearly had a nightmare season and is almost unplayable at this point. I think for the penguins and he's expiring now with his 4.9 million cap hit and I think if you're just looking from like a financial perspective of where the penguins can offload some money to increase their flexibility and improve, making some sort of a deal with the Blackhawks where they're similarly not looking to take on future money because of they, you know, and after. they moved Seabrook and De Haan to LTIR. They open up a lot of space for the rest of this season.

So if you can kind of entice them to take Al-Chanyuk's money and improve at that wing position, like that would be a very interesting route for the penguins to go. And I think Saad would stylistically fit very, very well with this penguins. I'm not sure how much of an offensive shot in their army to give them. But when you're comparing them to a guy like Tyler Tofoli, let's say, for example, I just think, like, in terms of the skating and the tenacious war check, I think Saad makes a lot more sense. So I'm really here to see which route they go, but I do think there's ways to move some

pieces around there and get creative despite the fact that, you know, right now they're kind of up against it financially. Yeah, and I mean, they've cleared a ton of space through long-term Ender Reserve as well, which helps them out big time, a terrible way to do it. But again, any deal they make is going to have to include tangibly one of Gauchengi or Nick Beegstad. And I just think there's more of a market for Gauchampiq. I really think so.

I mean, just because of the contract he's on? Just because of the name power. I think it's a name power thing. I think there's that, oh, I know where he was drafted. I could fix that. I mean, I think that follows guys everywhere a lot. And I don't think it's any different in this state. And I think the penguins have done a lot, despite his struggles, to speak to how hard of a worker he is.

Anytime you hear them talking about Alex Giacen, because he's here every day, He's the first guy on the ice. So, like, they have a picture they've even, I think, kind of painted from some perspective of he just needs a different landscape and a change of scenery. But, yeah, no, to your point, I mean, I like Tyler Tofoli and Penguins fans like Tyler Toffoli. But the thing that terrifies me is his pension for just falling off the face of the earth for long stretches of time. And to your point, the Penguins are going to want somebody that can get out there and forecheck. Yeah. You're not finding Jake Gensel's goal production on this market.

It doesn't exist. The best you could do is get somebody who's going to still be able to contribute lower in the lineup with a solid forecheck and a buy-in to the system. And this is the hype level that comes from Brandon Sod being from Pittsburgh. Give me a break. And that alone makes it, I think, a good story. I just think he's like a perfect Penguins player. It makes a lot of sense. I think he can be high for pretty cheap.

The Galchina question is in terms of whether he's actually even viewed as an actual asset by any teams around the league is. remains to be seen. I've seen some rumors that like the penguins are trying to get some sort of a either player they can play or draft pick back in return for them. I think it might reach the point where they might need to attach something for someone. I mean, the thing is expiring. So it's a lot easier to move it. And I think you could if you're a team like the Blackhawks, for example, you could talk yourself into like, all right, let's bring him in for the rest of the season and see if there's anything there. And maybe we can get him on, get him right. And then all of a sudden, you know, sign him to a bit more of a team friendly deal. But at the same time, I just, I haven't really seen anything to suggest that's coming. I get the pedigree. I get the flash as he showed earlier in his career. But, I mean, that game the other night when they went back to Arizona and Mike Sullivan was trying to make some magic happen and kind of playing on the top unit power play. And I just, I really just didn't see it. I mean, I don't know what happened to that guy, but, you know, combining the off-ice rumors about him and then also the actual on-ice results, it seems like teams around the league are souring quite a bit on them.

It's and here's the thing, like, it's just not there. I can't even give you something I think that has gone well for him this year in any, in any facet. It's not the forecheck. And I think Mike Sullivan's been hesitant to put him out, you know, in situations where the penguins need to generate momentum. And it's, you know, that's a big tell right there. You know, for as good as his shot has been, we haven't even seen it close to enough. it's the best asset he has and it hasn't come out of the tool bag all that much so to me I just he looks like somebody that is in need of a much deeper level of coaching to some

extent I've and there's just even been times where you know on the breakout you'll catch him floating you know maybe over into center and you know for a while I thought you know he's just trying to create something but I just think that it's just square peg round hole And I don't think he's particularly all that interested in playing hockey the way that this team plays it. It sticks out like a sore thumb. Yeah, I think he'd be well suited for at this point to go on a crappy team where he can kind of get back on track offensively and put up some empty calorie points. I think at this point that would be good for him. That's why I think the Blackhawks are a natural fit.

But, you know, if there's one GM who's equipped to make something out of this, I do think it's Jim Rutherford. and I wanted to end this conversation a bit by talking about, you know, Ray Sherrill recently got like, oh, by the Devils and he was, you know, got succeeded by Rutherford in, in Pittsburgh. And sort of this idea of, you know, GMing, both in terms of building a team up, but also then when that team is good, being equipped to surround the core with the right sort of pieces on the margins and make it work. And I certainly think Rutherford hasn't been without. his fault and he's made a lot of head scratching questionable decisions over the past couple years in Pittsburgh and that was largely why I thought heading into this year because I really didn't

like the way they approached the summer at all that things could really go off the rails this year for the penguins and boy was I ever wrong about that but he's one thing he has shown is he's certainly not attached to his mistakes and he's willing to get off of them and I think that's one of the better things you can say about a GM and certainly one of his biggest attributes now you could quibble with it and say well he's had to do it a few too many times for my liking and maybe it'd be better if he didn't have to do it so much but whether it was um you know capitalizing on that black hawk's desperation and moving olimata and getting back dominic kuhun who all of a sudden looks fantastic playing with uh rust and malkin or you know this failed erika bansan experiment and getting rid of that um he's

he's certainly shown that he's willing to do that and so whether it is uh with a guy like yal chineck or something else, I feel confident saying that he's certainly going to try his best to make something happen there. So I'm really curious to see what that market's like and whether he can find some sort of creative ways to improve this team and get that extra score. Right. Derek Brassard is another one. Didn't last very long and they moved him exactly when they needed to. I mean, it's a long list. I, I, I, Ryan Reeves, that's the other one I was trying to think of. What about renting Jamie Olexiac for the exact same pick?

That was one of the craziest trades. Yeah. He was only here for a cup of tea and then we just undid the, they just undid the trade. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so, first of all, it's always exciting. Let's get that out of the way. And never at all moment.

And Jim Brother Ver was probably like one of the most just blunt and honest guys. I mean, just tell you like it is and isn't afraid to kind of stir the pot, I think, from his seat up top, you know, just with some of the things he'll say about the team or the way he'll go about addressing them. You know, I think Jim Rutherford's a great example of not always having a swing for the fence, right? You know, let's think about the New Jersey Devils, okay? You go out, you get Wayne Simmons, right?

You go out, you get P.K. Sub-Band. But look through the rest of that lineup, right? Like, Blake Coleman, who's been great this year, is playing with Travis Zajack and Nikita Goosev on the second line, right? your fourth line's got like Kevin Rooney and John Hayden on it right like so you can swing for the fences all you want but if you if you don't have the depth right and you can't you can't and I think that race show I think you know in Pittsburgh got up at a part of that home run ball culture

it worked out great with Marion Hosa it worked out great you know it didn't work out great with Jerome McGinla for everyone that worked another two didn't and I and I think that that home run ball carried over into Sherro's business in the offseason this year and left that team with a lot of holes in it. Certainly. I think that, yeah, the end of Sherro's run into Pittsburgh was very strange. But, you know, like, it was tough because on the one hand, he inherited such an aging, kind of barren, talent-wise mess that a little Amarola left behind in New Jersey and kind of this aging veteran core that was on the way out. And so I think on the one hand, in his four or five years there, he did a really good job of,

making a bunch of like small victories in terms of squeezing value out obviously the tailor-haul trade and two first overall picks help but this year was the perfect encapsulation for me of that era where it was like we went into the year into the year and everyone was like the devils did a really good job they got a lot better this summer and then they actually hit the ice and for whatever reason and a lot of it has to do with the fact that the goaltending has been terrible but they just didn't have the results for it and so it's this kind of like promising yet ultimately disappointing run of play for them.

And so I guess the timing was the thing that was just the strangest because, you know, you essentially let him make or oversee the trade of your best player in Taylor Hall. And then less than one month later, he's on the way out. And, you know, the timing of that kind of didn't sit right

with a lot of people. But I think the way they're viewing it is they have a huge deadline ahead for themselves here because in a league where there's so much parity and there's like 25 teams that can talk themselves into hanging around the playoff race. They're one of the few sellers. And with guys like, you know, Palmieri, Simmons, you know, Coleman, Vatten and so on and so forth. They have all these guys where I'm sure they want to go a certain route.

And so the timing makes more sense from that perspective when you view it as like they're gearing up for a big deadline. But the combination of all of it is just kind of bit odd. I don't know if there's anything to this. But I'll ask you this question. Do you think that he waited too long to pull the trigger on the coaching change? Yeah, I mean, you certainly see that, you know, sometimes, you know, especially if the, if the GM will oversaw the hiring of a coach, like they can be their guy and they kind of are reluctant to do so. But I'm not sure what the story was there. Yeah.

I mean, that's kind of, I mean, Ray Sherro's, that would, he tied his anchor to that ship for better or worse. And when it didn't work out with Dan Basma, Ray Sherro went down with that ship. And I kind of get the sense that maybe we kind of saw something very similar happen there to him. Yeah, it could be. I don't know, man. This Metro Division is crazy. I was like that this morning. And, you know, the Penguins, Caps, Isles, and Cains would all be leading the Pacific

division. And, like, one of those teams is going to be, like, scratching and clawing for a wildcard spot. And, you know, you can lump the flowers in there as well who are playing, like, really good defensive hockey. It's just a murderous role team. So it's going to make for a really fun race down the middle, but down the stretch, but it's also going to, as good as the penguins have been,

and they've been rattling off and banking all these wins, it's like you can't really afford to take your foot off the gas pedal because where you finish in that grand scheme of things could really impact like your your blueprint for making a long playoff run. And the fun part is the Penguins and Capitals haven't played yet. Oh yeah. And we're getting in, oh yeah, and we're getting into, I think, starting January 2nd, I think actually is the first one. So, no, no, no, we have one coming up.

You just mentioned it this week. And then, yeah, again, in February 2nd. So the point being, you're about to sandwich a lot of Penguins Capitals games into a very short period of time. Man, the more I think about, the more I think about this penguin season is crazy. It is crazy. I mean, just think about it. Like, we just did an hour-long podcast, and we didn't really like, we kind of like tangentially

referred to him, but I don't think we actually talked about Cindy Crosby. Point per game player with a giant hole in his abdominal wall earlier in the year. That's the crazy. I had this conversation the other night with a couple guys. We were talking about, you know, what to expect, right? what do you expect from Sidney Crosby? And he played 17 games with this problem. This isn't something that's just like he had this issue at the beginning of the year.

And I was thinking back and like we were jokingly going back and looking at some of his points from earlier in the year. And you had no idea there was something wrong with them. You didn't even know. And it's terrifying to me to think the fact that he's about to come back into this team that's playing this well, having, you know, averaged a point per game in the first half of the year with a serious, serious, serious. problem that is now, you know, good to go. And the penguins have been so good that they've afforded him the ability to take his time. There's been no panic about this.

It hasn't been. We're going to rush you back. Everybody thought he was going to play Friday in Colorado. Everyone thought they were going to see him Friday. Everybody thought they were going to see him Sunday in Arizona. It was almost a sure thing. His sticks were taped. They were next to his locker stall.

But this team's been that good that they've been able to give him the time to make sure he is 110. percent ready to go. And my goodness, that's, that's frightening. It's a down-asite out of mind thing, but it wasn't that long ago that he was doing some amazing stuff, you know, at 50%. Yeah. But it's the most hockey thing ever, like, you know, from a logical, like, rational perspective, it's like, all right, this team is fourth and point percentage, third, and goal differential. They're right there into discussion for the president's trophy. And then, like, they're adding a guy who probably should have won MVP last year or was right there it's like all right like they're going to take it to an even higher level but then you know that like they're going to

have some like unlucky losses or something and they're actually going to come down off of that pace and go through a losing streak and people are going to be like writing somehow unironic takes on Twitter and articles about like whether he disrupted their flow and rhythm and whether they were better off without them like you just know it's coming there's no question about that let me i'll throw this one at you The Penguins right now are the best defensive team in hockey. I don't think that that could be debated. I mean, they limit shot quality, scoring chances, shot attempts. I don't care how you want to look at it.

I think the biggest part of Crosby's game, you know, outside of the obvious that he provides to you on offense is the impact he has on your game defensively. And I know that's such a sulky, Crosby for Sokey trope, Pittsburgh guy here, Crosby for Soge. It's just true. I mean, I don't care how you want to quantify it. Sidney Crosby is a massively positive impact on this team defensively.

So I think of it from that angle even. I mean, they've already are this good defensively. And now you're adding this other guy in who I legitimately feel is one of the best defensive 200, you know, quote, unquote, foot forwards in the National Hockey League. That's the thing that really kind of blows in my mind is what, where does this team go from here, from a defensive perspective when he gets back in the lineup and when Brian Dumlin gets back in the lineup? up. You know, we haven't even seen this thing yet at full strength. We don't even know what it looks like yet. We haven't gotten to that point. Well, here are the two things I'll say. One is, I think,

just, you know, the most obvious or natural fit is like we talk about how it's very reminiscent of that 2016 Penguins team in terms of how they play fast. And Crosby's just like superhuman ability to process the game and make quick decisions with the puck is certainly going to help. And that's going to reflect itself in those defensive numbers because they're going to be further away from their own net. But I think on the power play where, you know, there's sixth and unexpected goals and there's 17th and actual goals. So you could argue they've been a bit unlucky and that would kind of regress naturally. But having his playmaking and vision and passing out there for that, like we know their

5-1-5 dominance right now where they're basically top five in every single metric. If they can also get back to being a top 10 power play and they're just getting easy, cheap goals through that area of the game as well, then all of a sudden you're going to be kind of really cooking there. The penguins at even strength and on the power play have relied really heavily this season on low to high puck movements to open up lanes. I think that's a little bit. If there's one major difference, that's it. And to your point, Sidney Crosby loves that low corner goal line with this sort of like a low to high environment the penguins are in, I'd be keeping my eyes peeled for more insanity from him just in terms of his puck distribution.

on the man advantage. The stuff that we saw him doing earlier this year was like a telekinesis type situation. So that's one thing, you know, I think it may be, I don't think it's going to take them all that long to get back. I think he's going to have an immediate impact right out of the first power play that the Penguins have, especially with that focus, you know, being, you know, corner to point,

you know, open and closing the defense like an accordion. That's where he's at his best. I think it's in a system that accommodates him perfectly. And I think everybody should be excited to see what he could do in it. Yeah, that's a good way to put a bow on this episode. Coney Crosby's good, and we're excited to watch him, and we're glad he's going to be back in our lives. And, yeah, it's going to add another layer of intrigue

to what's already been a remarkable first 50 games or so for the Penguin. So, Jesse, I'm really looking forward to seeing the stretch run, seeing how that Metro Division shakes out, and seeing just what happens the rest of the way in Pittsburgh. so I'm sure we'll have you back on at some point. And yeah, I'm looking forward to chatting. Where can people check out your work and follow you online? Yeah, on the Athletic Pittsburgh via podcast at Dying Alive podcast,

which is now a part of the athletic. And on Twitter at J. Marsh, FOF. I got a couple of hockey's feature burners too, but I'm going to keep those to myself. Nice, nice. Nicely done. All right, man, well, this was a blast. I'm really glad we got to do this.

And hopefully we did this ridiculous penguin season justice. I'm looking forward to chatting soon. All right. Thanks, man. The Hockey P.D.Ocast with Dimitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypediocast.