The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 341: Two of a Kind

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

Uffe Bodin and Jonatan Lindquist join the show during Sedin Week in Vancouver to discuss the impact the Sedin twins had on young Swedes, the Canucks, the NHL, and the sport of hockey as it evolved into the skill game it is today.See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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And the reason for that is because since we recorded this show that you're about to hear in a second on Sunday evening right after the Oscars, there was a not a monumental trade by any means, but certainly a fascinating one that could have deep-rooted implications down the stretch and towards the playoffs with Jason Zucker going to the Pittsburgh Penguins. And so without knowing when my next opportunity to talk about it on the show would be and risking that by then it would be outdated, I wanted to get into a little bit here. It's a great trade. It's very satisfying from the perspective that it makes sense for both teams given their directions and there's a bunch of different layers to it. So we're going to unpack them here.

I think the, you know, let's start with the Pittsburgh Penguins perspective because I think that's the more sort of consequential one, at least for the time being. And it all starts and ends with the fact that Sydney Crosby's turning 33 this summer. Fgeny Malkin is going to be 34. And, you know, both guys are at the top of their game right now, but the penguins know that eventually father time will come for them too. And that won't be the case forever. And I truly respect them going forward and trying to maximize this champion.

championship window and trying to get another one with those guys. And the fact that Jason Zucker is under contract for, I think, three more seasons after this one gives them a bunch of kicks of the can, as opposed to just going for a pure rental and putting all their eggs into one basket when both the metro and the east are so deep and top heavy this season. And it's kind of, you know, it'd be leaving it to a lot of fate because they could be really good, but they could just run into the wrong team at the wrong time with how many good options there are and they could wind up regretting it. So listen, the penguins have been remarkable this year, especially given all their injuries, but even, you know, if you just, if they had a full clean bill of health, the fact that

their fourth in point percentage, fourth and goal differential, at 5-1-5, their top 10 and shot share, expected goal share, and high danger chance share, their power play's actually been kind of the weakling because it's only 13th in actual goals per hour, but even then their fourth and expected goals per hour and now with crosbie back and all these weapons we'd expect it to be closer to that than what they've been so far so they're really assuming that tristan jari is something remotely resembling what he's been so far or maybe matt murray puts it together and turns his season around assuming the goal tend he doesn't fall apart it looks like it's one of the sort of deepest most well-rounded flawless teams out east and we do need to touch on the injuries because that is

clearly a big storyline here as well, the fact that Mike Sullivan has been able to make a work. I think he's right there with John Tortorella in terms of doing the most with the least, given all the injuries and all the question marks and getting great performance out of the personnel he has had in the lineup. And it's been quite the story. I mean, now that John Marino, unfortunately, people listen to his show, know how much I love him in his game. He's been the latest to succumb to that injury bug in Pittsburgh and the list of guys who either

haven't been on IR or missed an extended period of time. This season is basically like their third line, Marcus Pedersen, Jack Johnson, and then like Teddy Blugher and Jared McCann. And I think that's about it. And so that speaks, they've always had either Crosby or Malkin there to kind of serve as the lynchpin and work everything around them. But it's been quite the story.

And now they're adding to their current roster without really taking anything away from it. And, you know, I think Zucker is going to do wonders to, in the short term, help replace what they're missing with Gensel being out of the lineup. He's going to slot in perfectly next to Sidney Crosby on that top line wing. I think he fits stylistically tremendously well in terms of the pace they want to play with at 515, the 4-check, everything they do to turn the puck over and keep opponents on their heels. And, you know, aside from last year, he's historically been an above-average plus finisher. And you kind of think about the match between that and Crosby's playmaking,

the offensive zone and ability to get the puck to shooters right in their way. wheelhouse, I think it's going to be a match made in heaven. With Zucker, he makes 5.5 million for his age 28 through 31 seasons. And I think they'll obviously see how it goes the rest of this year. They'll presumably get Gensel back at some point. And I think the beauty of this trade for them is if they want to, Zucker is good enough of a player is well enough established in the league and is on a reasonable enough contract given the age and the salary that they'll be able to turn around down the road and

potentially trade them away if they need to clear up cap space to make other signings or other moves. And one thing we have seen over the years is that Jim Rutherford is certainly not shy about doing so. And, you know, when I had Jesse Marshall on the show recently to do deep dive the penguins, we talked about this. But on the one hand, you can kind of quibble with the fact that he has made a lot of mistakes and has had to kind of dig out of them. And you'd ideally like to see that him not have to do so that often. But at the same time, I do commend him for the ability to acknowledge when he's made an mistake and sort of pull the plug on it and move on as opposed to what many other gyms in this league do, which is double down and try to sort of make it work,

even though all evidence suggested it probably won't, just because they don't want to admit that they've made a mistake in the first place. And so whether it's been with trading for Ryan Reeves or Derek Brassard, Jamie Alexiac, Tanner Pearson, now Alex Galchenguk most recently, we've seen time and time again that Jim Rutherford basically within a year, has been able to sort of move on and get back something remotely resembling value for those guys. You know, from, and the other thing I should say is it seems like it's a pretty big cost in the sense that they give up their first round pick and a prospect people like in Kalen Addison.

At the same time, what I will say is that, you know, for the Penguins, they're clearly in this win-out mode. They're hoping that that pick is going to be in the high 20s and won't be a player of consequence. And they get Zucker for more than one year, so he's not just a pure rental. And also acknowledging that, I think if they do wind up this summer deciding they want to go a different route, they'll be able to sort of recoup, I think, some of those draft capital assets by potentially moving on from either Matt Murray or Tristan Jerry and trading their rights to a team that views them as their surefire number one. And so there's many different ways that the penguins can kind of recoup what they've lost here. I think for the wild, it's encouraging that they were able to get back to legit assets for Jason Zucker,

especially considering the rumors last year that, you know, they were looking pretty desperately to trade him for whatever reason. It felt like Paul Fenton was on a hell-bent mission to get him out of town. And it's bizarre considering everything you hear is that Zuckker loved it in Minnesota, that he was an upstanding member of the community, that he wanted to be there and people in Minnesota wanted him there. And he was a heck of a player on the ice. And so it was very bizarre. It felt like there was always something missing there. But, you know, now that Paul Fenton's gone, we can kind of look back and be like, okay, that was probably just the miscalculation on his part as opposed to some sort of indictment against Zucker as the player or the person.

And so the fact that the wild, you know, it's never great when you're trading a player that's as established and still in his prime and still is such a useful contributor as Zucker is. But they're not going anywhere anytime soon. And I think they're viewing this as their best opportunity to sort of maximize on the return for him. And they didn't sell low. And so I think, you know, kudos to them for getting at least relatively fair value for a heck of a player. You know, Galchaniac is a complete salary full in this trade. I think I wonder how much of it was, you know, the Penguins needed to move some money out,

considering they were taking money into their roster. But I think part of it was also like, it's sort of like, has that bit of a sticker shock appeal where I think there's a certain number of casual fans out there that probably aren't paying attention that see this trade and think that, oh, the wild god Galchernic. I remember when he was a top five pick. I remember he's been traded for Max Domi. He's been traded for Phil Kessel.

He's still a legitimate asset. And I think that's certainly not the case. Perception of him is soured so much around the league that the penguins clearly couldn't get anything remotely resembling roster value for him and basically just threw him in to sort of even up the money and make it work financially in this trade. And we'll see. I think he certainly hasn't shown anything recently, especially this season, to suggest that he can be a useful NHL contributor still in any capacity really. Now it was kind of a terrible fit for him. And it sounds like he was hurt at the start of the year and just felt. behind and fell out of the mix and that could be an excuse it could be something to it we'll see

he's still young enough that conceivably he could have a turnaround and provide value to someone at at a discount value this summer but i just don't see it i think it's more likely that he's going to join the the list of top five guys from that 2012 draft in griffin reinhart and uh nail yakopov as guys who are in their mid-20s and out of the NHL uh sooner than we would have had any reason to expect at the time of the draft and just looking back at that sequence it's uh It's one hell of a draft. The other thing I will say is it's really important to remember with trades like this and this time of year, because we're going to see so many moves where a team that's not competitive this year

trades a useful player for prospects. And in this case, I think getting a first rounder and getting a prospect defenseman that people seem to genuinely like and has value and was a second round pick in his own right quite recently, like those are legitimate assets. But I think we tend to, as a hockey community, overvalue prospects and sort of the unknown and the magic bean component of it where it's like, oh, this prospect or this pick could be anything. But in reality, the success rate on prospects that aren't sort of surefire generational atop of the draft picks is so low relative to how we tend to think about and glorify it. And so in most cases, it's like this prospect could, if everything pans out and, you know, he, he was in the perfect spot.

He develops physically, mentally, everything works out for him. He could conceivably be as good one day as this player he was traded for. And so just thinking about it that way, I know that you get them at this cost-controlled price for a number of years and it improves your flexibility. And you're trying to get those prime seasons back

as opposed to a guy like Zucker going out who's already 28 and conceivably is going to be in his way down. But I think sometimes we tend to inflate the perceived value of prospects and picks. And we need to keep that in mind. and sort of remain level-headed about it. So anyways, that's all I had on this trade. I think it was a really fascinating one.

And yeah, we'll see. Hopefully it starts off a bit of a domino effect where we're going to see over the next couple weeks, more teams feel the impetus to make some trades and give us some stuff to talk about. With that out of the way, we're going to get into the actual meet of today's show. And, you know, the Canucks this week,

for those that aren't aware for every reason are holding a week-long celebration of the careers of the city and twins. And it's culminating in Wednesdays, Jersey retirement versus the Blackhawks were running this on Wednesday morning, so hopefully you guys will have a chance to listen to it before that happens. But I think the content will stay pretty topical regardless of when you get a chance to finally tune in. And I decided to take advantage of the large contingent of media from all over the world that came into town to cover the event. And so I had two of my favorite people in the industry on in Uveit Bodine and Jonathan Lindquist.

And we discussed for about an hour the careers of the city and the effect they obviously had on the Canucks franchise on the city of Vancouver, but I think even more importantly, and maybe more related to fans of other teams, the effect that they had on the league as a whole, the sport, and they're a homeland. And I think the two guests that I chose to have on did a masterful job of capturing or articulating all of that with a personal touch. I'm obviously biased because I grew up watching them closely and basically came into my own as sort of a hockey fan and really matured watching those guys and came to appreciate

them up close, but I think they were so important for helping curate this beautiful brand of hockey that we have and we get to enjoy on a nightly basis these days. You know, they were pioneers, they were innovators, they were largely influential. We tried to capture that and add a unique touch to all the coverage you're going to be seeing it written in audio forum this week about the Cidines. And so hopefully you enjoy it. I get that it won't be everyone's cup of tea. Maybe you don't care about the Cidines. They've been out of the league for a couple years now and you're wondering why we're doing this. But I just felt like it was important to do this and to talk about the sort of of ramifications the impacts of it all and and um you know if you don't take something from it for

whatever reason we've got two other shows this week we did a preter's deep dive with chris mason we've got a blackhawks deep dive coming with mark lazarus and we'll be talking about all sorts of other subjects on those shows so uh yeah that you have that to look forward to and then obviously with the trade line trade deadline coming down the road we'll have various other guests and exciting things to talk about hopefully so hopefully you enjoy listening to the show as much as i enjoyed recording it and yeah we're going to play it now and enjoy and we'll be back later this week with another show. progressing to the mean since 2015 it's the hockey pdio cast with your host dmitri

okay and then three two welcome to the hockey pdocast my name's demetri philpovitch and joining me a special three-man pod i wish the listeners could see this contraption we've got going on i've got my mic set on a bunch of books on a wobbly table. We just cracked some beers. I've got my two favorite Swedes in town. It's always a, I'm looking for a good excuse to get you guys on the show. And now that you're both in town for this special occasion for Sidene Week, I thought I'd get you guys on.

And we'd, uh, we'd just have a couple beers and chat about the Cidines and chat about hockey and have you on. So it's my good buddy Jonathan Lindquist, my good buddy, Uffa Bodine, both of you guys have been on the show, never at the same time. You guys have your own podcast. I'm excited to see if we can, uh, we're kicking Linus out here. And we're trying to establish our own little podcasting here. I'm sorry.

It's nice. I love that. No, it's great to be on. And thank you for hosting. Great beer, too, so far. I like it. Yeah. I'm not an IPA guy.

I've been in America for five years, so I'm kind of, I hate to admit it. I think a lot of cruise light. But this is good. Yeah, it's not bad. So here's what we're going to do. I remember, I guess it was two years ago now or whatever when the Siddeans announced that they were going to retire. I did a podcast with Chris Johnston, and we did kind of like a sort of not a memorial because

they obviously didn't pass away, but kind of other career talking about their effect. both on us personally and the league and Vancouver and NHL as a whole. But it happened, I think based on the way they were playing that season and their age and the fact that their minutes were down, their production was down, their contracts were up, I think everyone kind of had an idea that this could be the end. But they announced that I remember with like a week left in the season and it felt like everything was just happening so fast that it was kind of tough to gather all your thoughts. And now that we've had some time to sort of reflect on it and obviously the game itself has changed so much.

and we can talk more about how the Cidines would have fit in today's NHL. But I thought this was a good excuse for us to sort of just get together, talk about the Cidines, and sort of see where it goes. So I guess a good start for us is kind of just talk about like the effect. I don't know, any stories you have personally or anecdotes in terms of like stuff you remember about their career or whatever sort of personal effect that they might have had on you. Well, I'm going to be complete transparent right now because I'm going to be a big fan boy. So I grew up in Ovik, the city is hometown.

So they were, my favorite players growing up, they really were. And I remember playing street hockey or whatever. We always wanted to play life, and me and my buddies. It was never cool to score goals. You just want to have those quick little give and goes, the passes. That's what it was all about. And that was so affected by them. And it started there, and it's been, I think, for them, in Sweden, as in the U.S. and Canada,

It's been a long journey in terms of getting that recognition that I think they've gotten the last few years, and even more so maybe even post-retirement. And we're going to get into that. The impact that had on the World Championship when they won in 2013 was really big in Sweden, and we're going to get to that. But first off, just my favorite players to watch, hands down, just because the way they played. I kind of miss that in today's game in terms of it's so speed-based now. so a lot of the smartness and the passing and all that gets lost a little bit

yeah so i remember i'm actually as old as they are so oh there you're up here you should retire yeah yeah it's about time actually no but the thing i remember i did my military service uh where jonathan grew up basically and we went when we had like our nights off we went into ovik to watch basically we wanted to watch them play like they had a pretty decent team at the time but moto But all we wanted to see were the Zedians because they were so special. It was because it had been a pretty long time since Sweden had produced like players of that, you know, caliber talent-wise. Well, at that point.

Yeah. Peter Forsberg or Getsundstrom or someone. Not even that, honestly. Because if you go back, I don't think you had any Swede except Matt Sandim being that drafted top three at that point. That's true. When Dan and Hank was selected second and third. So they were so talented and I remember the buzz growing up. And obviously they lost that finally 99, which is for sure kind of like the 2011 of Motto.

Were the riots just as explosive? I remember I was 10 years old at the time and I just remember the feeling of I was too young to understand it. But the building, it was so empty. They lost at home just to add another power off to 2011. and it was a surreal feeling. It was such an upset too because they were the team. They were like destined to win. They were even more dominant than the 2011 connects.

They were so good. And I think that haunted them too, Dan and Hank too, that they got to lose that final and the one in 2011 too, which made the world championship in 2013 even more important. Minofa was talking about it walking here that from a Swedish perspective, their legacy in Sweden winning that title in the world championships at home in Sweden, 2013

was way more important than a cup win would have been that's how big the world championships are in Sweden Yeah and much bigger like the fact that they won like back to back scoring titles which which is a huge thing because there's not too many Swedes that have done it's only Peter Forsberg

right? Yeah Yeah so that that should be like something it's pretty unique but in Sweden all people you know the casual fan, they will talk about how they came home for the world championships and basically it turned a crappy team into winning team. And let's talk about that because I think that's something that people over here deserve to know in terms of the leaders and the winners they were because everyone will remember 2011

over here. But when they came back, the team Sweden had in 2013 wasn't good. They were like playing, I mean, they had a tough time beating teams like Italy, Norway. Yeah. A cocky powerhouses. They were just playing awful. They did not have a whole lot of big names on that team, not a whole lot of NHL guys. And they came back and it started right away.

I know I would cover that tournament. And I know when they landed from Vancouver, mind you, this is what, 16, 17 hours of flying to get to Sweden. They called like an informal meeting right away as they got to the hotel to just assess the situation. And I remember talking to a guy on the team and saying that kind of changed everything. And then they went on to just be so number one series. I know they did extra video on top of like the coaches, video meetings. They came to ring 45 minutes early before any other teammate. So they kind of set the bar there.

And also they had something you may be, or word you won't associate with the scenes, but they had swagger. I remember they came in, they played Canada. And before the game, I remember Hendrick talking about Mike Smith being a flopper. And everyone was like, you didn't associate. that with the Cedines because they were always so nice. But they had that confidence and they more or less demanded to play a lot. They'll play the PK.

Yeah, I mean, that was the thing. Like, they came in and the coach asked them if they wanted to come and play. And they were like, yeah, but we want to play PK. We want to play. Like they said the mark they high. Yeah. Which didn't work out at that level either. No, they wanted to play so much.

And on the ice, they were dominant. So I actually went through the numbers. They played four games. So one in the group stage and then the quarterfinals, semifinals. else. Henrik had nine points, Dan had six, and even more so,

the city in effect. Lou Erics, and he played six games before they came, scored two goals, zero assist, and mind you, against teams like

Norway and Slovenia. Yeah. And he had three goals and five assists, the last four games when he played on that line. Right. That led to the contract

that I'm sure. Yes. Some, he's still reaping the road. Yeah. So they were just so dominant. They had both of the goals in regulation

in the quarterfinals against Canada, all three, goals, 3-0-0-0 win in the semifinals against Finland, and then half of the goals in sort of a blowout of Switzerland in the finals. I think it was 6-1. So for me personally, again, I'm a little bit younger. I'm 30 now. So that's, I want to say maybe the single most dominant, or single, there were two, but most dominant performance I've seen in the national team in at least the last decade, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, for me personally, I mean, in other words, sort of doing story time here,

Like, you know, I obviously immigrating to Canada in 96, I was four years old, you know, hockey and Serbia wasn't a real thing. So like my father was much more a basketball person. And so that was something we bonded over. And first, it was that kind of West Coast Express team with Marcus Naslin and Bertuzi and Morrison. They really captured the attention of Vancouver, got them back in the playoffs, got people talking about it.

But ultimately that team kind of fizzled out and never wound up reaching the playoffs success. People hoped for them. And then after a bit of a down period, the Cidines came in. And that's when I really got into hockey. And I honestly think if it weren't for them and, you know, Mike Gillis and Lawrence Gilman and Ellen Vino and that sort of 08 to 2011 Canucks team, I don't think I would have gotten into this industry in terms of like just being interested at hockey at this level because

I never played, you know, even amateur hockey. But just the way that team played, how they were sort of going about like trying to chaperone this new skill era of the NHL where it's not all about fighting and physicality, but you can win in a different way. and, you know, especially like that management group that's just such a smart job of utilizing them. Like, I remember for a couple years, their offensive zone start rate was like over 70, 80%, and they were trying to maximize their skill and they built around those two guys. And so, you know, they have a special place in my heart, obviously, from that degree.

But, you know, in terms of that skill conversation, you guys talking about their effect on Sweden and sort of everything involved there, do you think it's fair to say? Because I always think, we always used to think of Swedish players being more kind of like workman-like. and defensively solid and kind of two-way players. And now it feels like, I mean, you're seeing an NHL draft where, like, Swedish forwards are going higher and higher and we're going to see two guys in Alexander Holtz and Lucas Raymond go in top five maybe this year.

Do you feel like that kind of also like... I did this reflection a few years ago when the Swedish World Juniors team were really good. And, like, the thing I thought about, like, how, you know, the players protected a puck, how puck possession was such a large thing like it was the pinnacle of Swedish hockey at least at the time we had some tougher tournaments after that

but the thing that hit me is like this is they watch this deans like this is like the Swedish hockey program is kind of based after what they did so I think that's maybe the biggest legacy actually in Sweden and then it might be a thing that people don't think about but like if you watch Swedish national teams or junior national teams like there's so much sedin there just by the way like puck possession the importance of that and just how you know playing along the boards and you know the small finesse place and stuff like that so

i think i think they've had a much huger impact than than we might think about and i think something i got two things on that number one it's something i actually i saw uh dan an hang two days ago and we talked about uh well basically everything we had to sit down for for my broadcast company back home in Sweden, VSA, which is his rights holder, back home. And we talked about everything. And Henrik said that he felt, he honestly said, like, we should be proud of what we fought through

in terms of sticking to our game plan and playing the way we believe we should play, even though everyone on the outside, fans, media, even coaches wanted them to play a different style. And what we're seeing now, it's not people playing just like them because we will never see that again. Right. But something similar to that.

Another thing I would like to add, just a small detail on the influence that I don't think people over here think about is someone that they really, really affected. I can say that coming from the same place as Victor Hedman. I think they were huge role models for him in terms of a lot of stuff in terms of just pushing away the outside noise because obviously he was drafted second overall as they were if we put them together and being serious turning away all the distraction

outside noise and also being very tried to be as serious as possible about school because that's something that Dan and Hank with a lot of pride in being young and something Victor Fault's suit and so I think even though they play a completely different style and I don't think he

obviously didn't take too much from them on the ice I think as a person and how you handle being a player of that status and just how you take care of yourself in the summers because they used to work out in the summers on ice every now and then. I think they were really important to ask role models for him.

I think they kind of like redefined this idea of toughness, right? Because you usually used to think of it as like, guys, you fight and that's the way you exhibit your toughness. And I think early on in their careers was sort of misunderstood because the game, especially pre-Locko when they came into the league, was in such a different place. And I think it was interesting to see

you know this happens when someone ends their career when someone passes away and when we sort of get kind of nostalgic and reflective on them but you saw the outpouring around the league of even non-sweetish players that when they announced they were retiring we're kind of coming out and talking about their impact on the game and how much they respected like them as competitors and as warriors and it's funny to think back that this was ever a discussion but like you watch some of those tapes now and like i mean their bread and butter was like this quote unquote gritty like cycle behind the net where they're just taking like cross-checks in the back and never missing games really. Like that was a crazy thing to me.

I know Henrik Sidon had that Iron Man streak, but I think he played all 82 games like 13 different times in his career. And so for them to sort of have just like the fencemen just leaning on them every single night and taking that punishment and never really like retaliating, just playing their game and still kind of doing their damage on the scoreboard, I thought was kind of the cool. I guess they were ahead of their time. They were. I mean, because obviously they struggled for the,

I mean, the first few years, as we talked about, like they had a really tough time, you know, living up to the lost expectations after being drafted so high. But I think they were ahead of their time. And, you know, when the hockey changed, especially after the lockout in 2005, was it? Yeah, 0405. Yeah, exactly.

I think that's really when, you know, the game finally was in the right place for them to shine. And that's what we saw later. they were able to dominate in a very special way. One thing I think we should remember when we talk about the fact that it took a little bit longer for them is if you look at players of that status drafted at high winning scoring titles, it would be hard to find players that are less physically gifted. Right. If we're honest. Like they weren't big.

They weren't naturally strong. They weren't naturally quick and explosive. They really, and they did. They had to work for it. To get that, get the skating to where it needed to be, be strong enough to play the cycle game. Because as you said, you're going to make herself a target if you played a cycle game. I have a question for you. I don't mean to interrupt you.

But do you think that was always, or do you think that they realized eventually as they got going in their careers that had to be that way? Because towards the end of it, like, I mean, now Daniel Cedine's like running, they're doing marathons. I remember like in their final season, they were age, whatever, 37 or whatever. And they were like at the top of the Canucks fitness testing for like every single thing. I think they still would be. It's funny, it's funny to say because I asked them like, what's a normal day? Yeah, and then Hank told me, yeah, we dropped the kids off in school. Then we meet up and run a half marathon and shout a little bit.

Yeah. And that's like a typical day. And then they go home and take care of errands and then they have the kids have sports at night. So they're still at that level. I think it was something from my understanding that they had to kind of learn and figure out that this is something we need to work on to be able to. I think actually Michael Samuelson called them shabby. the other day when we had our talk the first few years

there are some photos left I think it's out there for everyone to see that they weren't in the shape that they are even now when they're retired so it was definitely a process for them learning how to take care of themselves but as they kind of did

they really really did that so I think that's but that's something we have to remember but if you look at take a guy like I don't know anyone take OV or Crosby they're just specimens

Right. They were either so strong or quick. Yeah. And Danny and Hank never had that. So they had to rely on two things. Number one, smartness, which we obviously all saw, but also just really working. And the game they played, they worked out a little bit different. They ran a lot.

I mean, we see they doing marathons and stuff now. And they had to, the way they played was so different. It wasn't explosive. Right. They wore teams down. Yeah. So I think they almost, in a way, almost worked out differently, too, because they played so differently. Whereas a lot of guys, I mean, what's an average shift?

Yeah. 35, 40 seconds or whatever. But we all seen the shift. They had that different stamina that I don't think a lot of hockey players have. And that was also something just to clarify, we had Michael Samuelson. We were here with a Swedish group of 50 people that are here to experience this great weekend in Vancouver. And we had Michael Samuelson at our hotel when he answered questions and talked a lot about the sedans. And he said something interesting.

Like, I don't think he had, like, statistical evidence to back it up. But it was, like, he, at least the two and a half years he played in Recru, what he felt was, like, they scored a lot of goals late in their shifts. Just by wearing, as you said, wearing the opponents down. And I think that's where the stamina parts of it comes in. Like, they were really, you know, just cycling. And the other team had to, you know, hunt them around the ice.

and eventually, you know, they get too tired and the score. The headline from this podcast is going to be Michael Samuelson, body shames the Cedines. No, but so here's a question I have for you guys because I don't know if you guys have heard this podcast. So Bill Simmons has his podcast on the ringer. It's the book of basketball. And he basically, he deep dives individual players now and kind of goes back over their careers.

And so one recurring sort of question or theme they have on those shows is, did this player come into the league at the right time? too early or too late, just in terms of where the league was to sort of maximize their abilities. And with the Siddines, I think it's such an interesting question because obviously,

after the lock, like they had those four or five years and the game changed so much after the lockout and they really came into their own. But on the one hand, like I think they came in at a good time for themselves because they were so ahead of the curve in terms of like some of the skill passing.

They were doing like the stuff. I mean, every team now is working like one guy behind the net passes it out front and you get a much easier look or so. or the East-West passing they were doing. And so they had an advantage in the competition. But on the other hand, I think it was kind of like wasted in the sense that if they came around now in 2020, like, think every night they played, there'd be just gifts being

passed long on Twitter of like this crazy passing play they had. And I felt like they came around too early from the perspective of like the internet kind of appreciating all the ridiculous stuff they did, even when they didn't score. Yeah. From a gifting standpoint, sure. Right. But from a playing standpoint, I don't think I fully agree. Maybe a couple of years later.

But I think what happened is in a lot of ways, had they been like 22, 23 post-lockout, because they were 26, correct? They're born 80. So 25, 26. So they're kind of in their prime. But I think that was the perfect storm because the league was still slower.

A lot of guys that weren't as fast was still in the league, but the game was more open. So they had the space to play their game. Whereas today, it's so much about having that, foot speed. I think we see, I mean, to me,

there are really two playmakers. Danny scored out of necessity, but he's also a playmaker at heart, I think. Yeah.

And that is sort of a dying breed. I mean, we still have Joel Thornton playing, we have Nick Baxter playing, but that, correct me if I'm wrong,

but we don't see that many pure passers and Adam Oates or or in Hendrik Sidin or a place like that. It's sort of dying out. You have to have

that speed. So I think in a lot of ways, I mean, they would have done well in the 80s too. Yeah. Well, I think they would have adjusted today's game just in terms of like their positioning and their smarts were so good. They would have made up for that lack of one speed. For sure. And we got to remember, because I love having conversations like that.

Because I remember people always telling me another Swedish player, people always say, like, in Maddie Forrestberg would have played today. Right. He wouldn't kill it, like with no hooking. Yeah. I go the other way. I say Forrestbro was so great because he was one of the few skilled guys who could play that way. But we got to remember with that is obviously if Forrestberg would.

would have had great numbers. Obviously, the Cidines would have been great in any era. Yeah. I really think so. Even if they came in in 95, they would have added the strength necessary to be able to play their game. Yeah. Maybe not to a point where they would have on scoring titles.

Or had iron streaks. Or had iron streaks, for sure. But they would have been effective. I do believe that. But on the other hand, they got a couple years to build themselves up. So I do think maybe one or two years later. Other than that, I think it was kind of good timing. But here's the thing that's interesting to me.

like so I was thinking about this you know the game has changed so much beyond just like the on ice in terms of like the business side of things in terms of how we view prospects right and like it feels like the game is younger and younger now kind of out of necessity because obviously it's such a speed game and you're trying to get young guys in there but also like if you have a guy making 700k and he can perform at an hl level you want to get him in there because you're probably paying if you're the leaps you're paying three guys 11 million dollars or whatever right and you kind of need to fill those roster spots but with the sidines You mentioned that first year they really broke out and after the lockout, they were 25 or 26 already. At this point, if a prospect had the career arc they had, think about how much people would be freaking out in the internet era where like they were like having nice 30, 40 point seasons, but they were playing 12, 13 minutes a night. They were like second, third liners on the team and they were drafted second and third overall. Like just think about a guy like, that's the equivalent to right now, Jonathan Druand, for example, who's already been traded. It feels like he's been in the league for 20 years and might retire any. day now. That's like him basically at this point if he just all of a sudden became like an

80 point guy. But I think a lot of that goes into that the game was different. Right. And it was more of a, it was more of a physical game and a lot of guys had to add strength necessary to play in that era. So, and that takes time. It takes time to build muscle, right? So, and also to learn how to

handle the punishment. Now where it's more of a speed game, you'll be at your quickest at, what, 22? Yeah. I don't know. Like when you, I'm not a physical performance. whatever. I think we also learn more that like guys,

peaks are younger than we thought, right? But I think peaks do come earlier now. Yeah. But I also believe that they were so different in the way they played. And also the tools they had.

Again, I go back to that. Like, if you look at, I mean, name any superstar except Wayne Gretzky. That didn't have like a physical trait that was either like size and strength or explosive skating or something like that.

It's really hard to find. So it made them so different. So I think a lot of times when we talk about the typical development, it's hard to apply it to them. But obviously, had they played, I think on a different team, because we're talking about a team that had the best line on hockey. So are you going to take the power play minutes away from the West Coast Express? You're not going to do that. And you shouldn't if your goal is winning. Because at that point, there's no denying that that line was better than the Zedines, even though they may have earned a couple more minutes of ice time.

But how they play for a different team, maybe would have seen them produce more pre-lockout, for sure. But it's also interesting to see what players they played with a lot of times. I mean, Trent Clatt, Alex Burroughs, I mean, no disrespect. But it's like... Every player that played with them had a career year, right? Like Anson 5, I scored 30-something goals with them. I mean, yeah, Steve Bernier, Michael Samuelson, you know, like, you go down the line. They pretty much every single person they played with had their best season.

But I'm also, I'm going to go against that. Because what I think is they had each other. Yes. I mean, how many star players have... They were each other's best line-knit. How many star players have two great line mates? Yeah. That's not like we're talking about Nick Backstrom and OVN, the third superstar.

Yeah. Or Crosby and Mock and don't play on the same lines. Right. But it's always the two of them. To have three guys on the same line, yeah, we see it with the abs now every... Quite often. But for the most part, you don't see three great players on the same line. Yeah, but I mean, we're not talking about great players.

We're talking about probably like third liners. Yeah. And that's what I think you should expect because that's what I, that's how good they were. I mean, the same thing we're seeing with a guy like Connor McDavid. I'm not saying that they were Connor McDavid. McDavid is better. Yeah. But the thing he's doing with Sacassian, that's kind of what you should expect from a player

of that status. Like if you're that good, you should take your average third liner and have him make him a 20 goal score. If he's smart enough to just find open space and get the puck out of the corner. that's what I do think especially talking in this area when we have the cap that's what you need yeah yeah of course I mean that's the point of having a superstar they're going to make whoever they've better of course yeah I think I mean we can kind of move towards we talk about like sort of the personal effect they've had I think in terms of the effect on the league we talked about like redefining toughness and stuff but don't you like when you watch today's game you see so many things that

now like guys are so skilled and they're practicing this stuff in the off season together at all these camps and they make it look so easy but I remember at the times like when Henrik would just like at center ice just take a slap pass and it would just go off the boards and you'd be like, oh, why is he like icing this puck? And then all of a sudden, he'll go like directly to Daniel and he'd like work the angles or they do obviously like the tip pass, the slap tip passes and stuff like that. Like everyone's doing that now. But at the time, there was like, holy crap, these guys are playing a different sport.

Yeah, and that's something we've got to remember here because I always hear to talk about the uncanny ability to know where the other one were. It wasn't that. It wasn't the twin superpower. No. This was mechanical. Yeah. And thought of.

they practiced the slap pass the bank pass all of that it didn't come from oh i feel that dan is going no it was like geometry he's like i'm going to hit it at this angle this is something they worked on and they played together since they were 14 they actually played on different lines up until 14 because they were both centermen's uh but they started to playing together at 14 and have been playing together ever since and if you look at i think you have a hard time finding anyone at this level who played together with the linemen for so long so they just had an ability to work on And I think that's something that really set the standard. And I think we're honestly just seeing this day and age.

I mean, the first step in off-season development was guys starting to actually work out. Right. Like going to the gym. Yeah, stop smoking cigarettes and getting in the gym. Exactly. And then the next step was get on the ice earlier. And then we had that was mostly skating. And now you have actual skill stuff.

I think Crosby is a guy who kind of started pushing that too. But just working on the skill side of things is something. thing I kind of, at least from a Swedish perspective, kind of got lost a little bit up until the last few years. It was mostly about your physical fitness in the summers. And I don't know how much they actually worked on ice stuff in the summers, but I do think showing, they show that if you work on place, you can have a lot of success because they worked in all those plays that we thought were just magical.

That's hard work that goes into that. I mean, yeah, you can talk about like twin magic and all the own, but in preparation for this podcast, I was going back and watching some of their highlight reels and some of their best plays. And obviously, my favorite is still the goal. It was like the last game of the season against the flame, is that famous one. Yeah, against Keper Software. I mean, that was one of those where it's like, you know, I think it was Air Hoff, like kind of like pass, like slap shot. And in full speed, Henrik Sidene, through the legs, no look like behind the back tips it,

in stride to Daniel, who then in a tight space goes through the legs to be. beat a great goal. I can say twin super power for that one. I'll buy that. But it's also like skill from the perspective of like the touch to like execute that. And that's something I feel to get into a more philosophical discussion about it. I remember me and Henry had a long conversation about this a couple of years back. Just playing street hockey.

They played so much street hockey. And that's something I found out like going to the US. I don't know. When I grew up, even when I play, you know, just pick up hockey or whatever, for a ball back home, the best player always passes. The best player always tries to move the puck, and it's cooler. Again, like I said, it's cooler to throw a nice pass than to score it. And that's something that I found, it's a little different in terms of mentality

when I came over to the U.S. where it's more about scoring. But going back to that, I remember, Henry told me about they practice and all that, But everything they, or he did, but same goes for Danny, obviously. All the passes we see him pulling off was stuff he tried playing on the streets or at the pond with his friends. That's where he tried all the stuff that turned out to be magical at the NHL level. So that's something I think, again, like for people that are involved with Utah or whatever, you got to remember that that's so important to have kids just play the game. and just have fun.

And without, I think, honestly, without any supervision. Because all those games were played with no parents, no coaches, what have you, just two nuts on the street, whatever, and go out and have fun. So that's something, a lot of the stuff, yeah, a lot of it is hard work, but a lot of it is just creativity from playing the game for fun as a kid. And it's so cliche, but that's the way it is.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I was going through some other numbers, and, you know, obviously each guy had a thousand points. they both won back to back. Art Ross, I feel like they both should have won the hearts. I still feel that Corey Perry stole that heart from Daniel the second season. But, yeah, I mean, they had some crazy numbers I was looking at. You know, like they're 5-on-5 especially. You would think that, and they always, the Canucks always had a good power play.

And they were always, like, the puck would be moving and they were humming. I think that's kind of where I think, in a way, they came in a bit too early to maximize it. Because I was still watching some of those. And like the shift against the Oilers, you look at it, and it's like, Matia Solan and Lucas Craich are on the ice with them and Kessler. And it's like at this point it'd be like their best offensive defenseman and then another forward. And like think about if you had another skilled player on the ice on the power play at all times to like benefit from their passing as opposed to like Lucas Kriichick randomly roaming.

And also the way it just looked, they just moved the puck around and the shift obviously I've watched it the other day too. And it's just moved up to a point and then you take a slap shot. And it's not even a one timer. Yeah. Like it feels like every shot on that shift was a slap shot that wasn't a one timer. and you never see that today. So how you maximize that and how do you maximize

coaching of the power plays? Yeah, I do agree. They would have been way more effective at 5-on-4. Man, yeah, so my favorite stat, in 2009, 10, Hendrik Cedin, on the ice for 90-5-1-5 goals for, 49 against.

So, yeah, and then I had like 40 or whatever power points. It was ridiculous, but... Yeah. I actually checked it for the two years that they won the art draws. Yeah. During their time together,

they were on the ice for twice as many, more than twice as many 5-on-5 goals. I think it's 167 to whatever. But they were more than twice as many goals scored at 5-on-5 when both of them were on the ice together. So they were that dominant. Yeah, I get the zone starts. Yeah, their usage was nice, but yeah, I mean, they were killing.

But that does not give you that much of that advantage. It's just so, so impressive. Yeah, so the other thing I was looking at was, I was listening to this interview with Brian he was talking about how, like the day of how they got them in some of the trades. And kind of revisiting that was sort of crazy. I think that's sort of the most, like, the least repeatable part of this. Like, it's like, we're going to see two linemates where this go, but it's like two twins

who also get drafted like that. And you see all the stuff that had to happen. And like, the league was in such a different place. Just listening to Brian Berg talking about you don't know how much of it is true and how much it's not. But it's like, I remember he made a trade with, I think, like Tampa Bay. But Tampa Bay had already made a second trade with New York expecting Vancouver to make. It is like all this stuff

He's ridiculous And somehow obviously Atlanta was the one Who got the short end of the stick Yeah agreeing to take Patrick Stefan instead But I mean that's something they talked But they were I mean they were

They were pretty much set That they were not going to the same team Yeah In their mind It was like they were going their separate ways And it would Like as a thought experiment It would be interesting just to

Like what would they have been able to do on their own I think they would have been fine players but like it's like together it's like a completely different package so um i mean hendrick sidine in atlanta or here's a thought for you i'm going to go ahead and say that danny would have been a center had it been drafted to a different team yeah i can see it and you think he would have played like more of a playmaking he would have been played more of yeah i mean he was

always as you said like he was a shooter out of necessity i think he was helped it was funny because when i sat down we talked about he gave him hacked a lot of a lot of crap He chirped him a lot about his shot. Henrik was going on. We were having this serious conversation about how they kind of defied the odds and like, we were never the greatest skaters, never had the best shots.

And then he just interrupted him. It was like, speak for yourself. Because he felt that he had a better shot. And when I asked him about their best highlights, Hank said, he said a weird backander against Minnesota. I'd never seen it. I'll post a link later or whatever. and daddy said that every single goal to Henry scored

it was always a highlight because they were so rare I always used the joke that Henrik was just passing the fucking their back of the net when it was what happened but I was going to say one thing that gets lost in that is that Daniel's just left-handed and for the most part I find I don't have the numbers my impressions is that guys that have their bottom hand as their strong hand like if you're right-handed and you're a right-y

you'll shoot harder and it's so rare to see a right-handed guy or sorry, a left-handed guy be a lefty. So I think that helped his shot too. It's something, little detail that I think matters.

But I do think he would have been more of a playmaker had he played on different teams and I think he would have been a center. Yeah, it did feel like yes. And obviously, you know, like the shift, for example,

like he's shooting, it feels like almost like to put the other team out of his misery to like end the shift and just let them go back to a bench because like he'd like to pass it again back to Henric but he just knows to do

he'll get it back anyways. Yeah. Okay. Dimitri, I'm going to put you in the spot here, because Minofafer, we're having a conversation here, walking here. Swedish forwards, all time. Right.

We're in their discussion area. Off the top of your head, where would you place them? Okay, so who's in the discussion here? Peter Forgeberg is going to be number one. Yeah, Matt Sandine, probably number two. Sundin is in there, Zetterberg, Alfredson. Backstrom? Backstrom, maybe, I think that's it.

Kent Nelson has the highest scoring season, but I was back in the 80s. Well, you know what they're crazy? thing is so zetterberg was in that draft right and if you look at it brian berk actually called it the worst round first round of any n hl draft and like i think barton havelad at 26 was like the third best player in that first round i'mald brendles and yamil mon marks and then in the seventh round you had i wrote it down here somewhere like you had like zetterberg yeah like i think redeemed verbata um and then like ryan miller in the fifth round or something like it speaking of like generational divides and how much it's changed and all this stuff we've talked about i think like go back

drafting has improved significantly. Like you look at some of the guys who are being drafted in the first round there, and you're like, oh my God. That was a little nugget from our sit down that they mentioned too that, I think, for the Detroit fans listening, that they said that back in those days, playing, obviously, the Detroit games were out of out east. So they started three hours earlier. So they always used to watch Detroit because they love watching Zetterberg.

And that was like their favorite players to watch. Because they came in early at the rink, whatever, so they could watch a little bit before their game started. So it's just, and I can kind of see where they would, that was, I think, the only tandem that was close to them in terms of chemistry. Maybe Perry and gets off at the height of their powers too. Yeah, they're in that era. Yeah, I'd have to look at the number. I think right after you get done with Forzberg, I'd say, like, they're right there.

Like, you can kind of nitpick and go on personal favorites and stuff, but I think. And the other thing, you're right, it is so tricky because, like, you can't separate them. I think everyone agrees that Henrik was a superior player because he played center and it felt like he could really play with anyone, whereas Daniel was a, a bit more dependent on playing with Henrik just because of their positions. But if you put them together as one, like it's... Yeah, it is, it's so hard to divide them. But I think, as you mentioned, I think Henrik has like four top ten finishes in terms of the scoring race and then he's at two or something.

His numbers is a little bit stronger. He has the higher scoring season. Era adjusted, I think it's, or I know it's the highest scoring season by hockey reference, Eradjusted stats. So it's something that's worth. remembering too. But I think during the conversation, I mean, obviously you can look at a Sandino and Alfredson and say that they had a longer career and they obviously got going a little faster and played a little bit longer too. But in terms of the peak, I mean, it's hard to argue the

MVP's and the scoring titles. Yeah, that three years stretch there with like the Stanley Cup final and then winning those individual awards, like they were just, it felt like every night, like they were on every night, but then like they could crew, when they cranked up to their absolute highest level, like the other team was just begging them to stop. Like it was just, too much. Yeah. Or is there anything else? So, all these two guys you want to get into?

We kind of talked about personal effects, the effect on the league, the effect on Sweden, like. I mean, it is a cliche, or a cliche, but it's been talked about so much. But one thing that, it really, really stands out to me, getting to know them a little bit, and just seeing being here in Vancouver a couple of times, it's the people they are.

And it's something you say a lot. Oh, great players, even greater people. I'm not going to say that, but I'm going to say that they do stand out. There's a lot of good people in hockey in the world. But, I mean, the stuff they've did in terms of time they've given money they've donated. And just the way they've treated people, be it teammates, be it us in the media, be it fans. It really, really stands out.

And I think that's a legacy. When you talk to guys, If you talk to someone like Pedersen, to me it's very clear that what they did off the ice and their legacy in BC has more of an influence on him. It's something that he's really, I think, realized coming over here, and he kind of realized what's expected of a star in Vancouver and the high bar that's been set. And I think that's something that for every player, I mean,

no one can really play like them. you can take stuff in terms of the possession game but yeah we're not going to see that i think but the way they carry themselves uh i think is uh it's going to be their lasting legacy yeah they were at titans of the community i mean it's so rare now like to see two guys i mean see anyone be with one organization for their full career and especially for them for like 18 seasons right yeah and another thing i want to add to that is if you look at the way i mean they were treated yeah The stuff they were called during their first five or even 10 years. We can go back to...

Yeah, I remember Jamie Ben and Tyler Seagin. Yeah, I mean, that stuff was going on in like the mid-2010s. Yeah, and I'm saying stuff was said that people would get fined for today or I mean, you would get fired. Fire. Yeah. Yeah. Stuff that was said and not a single slip up. Yeah.

Nothing. Yeah. That's, it's pretty remarkable because I don't think, uh, I don't think, uh, I mean, uh, I remember the Brian Burke, he narrated a Sportsnet feature about them, and he said something about, like, had there ever been two players that caliber taken this much crap, basically? And I don't know if we've ever seen that. And they still carry themselves with so much grace.

So I think it's something, again, like, it's so cliche to talk about the people they are. But they were really remarkable. They still are. And I think they have, again, like being from where I'm from, if I go to a real personal level, it's something that I can be proud of. I can be proud of. I'm so proud of being over here, working here.

And I hear, like, my hometown is 30,000 people. And we have Forrestberg and Naslin and Hedman and the scenes coming out of there. But you can be so proud of having people like the city is coming out of there and seeing the way that they kind of set an example for someone like Victor to kind of carry on the legacy. because I also think he's one of those guys that it's a true class act in terms of being an ambassador for game. Yeah, no, that's a great way to put ambassador for the game ambassador for the city. And that's why I also think, like, selfishly, it was not cool, but it was kind of nice to not see them in their careers,

like wearing different uniforms, like trying to chase a cup ring. I'm sure, like, that thought at least crossed their mind at some point towards the end there. It won with Vancouver, clearly going out of the playoff race. But, like, just seeing them associated with Vancouver. And that's why you're going to see, like, this full week, like, it's dedicated to the Cidines, the Canucks as an organization are pulling out all the stops to honor them and eventually have retired their jerseys. And so it's no surprise.

Like they fully earned all of that respect. So Hall of Fame? Yes or no? Yeah. Oh, I mean, honestly, there's absolutely no argument. Like first ballot walk right in. I mean, it's also the international hockey Hall of Fame. It's not even that.

Like, like, we just spoke about the effect they had on an entire different country, but also like, you know, the world championships winning Olympic gold medal. Like, I mean, I think. it's not even an argument. You could make an argument that just based on the NHL alone, they'd be shoo in right away first ballot, but you'd take the totality of their careers. It's a no-brainer, in my opinion.

Yeah, I agree. I completely agree. Yeah, no doubt in my mind. So I guess I'm, am I going to see you guys at the draft? Like, I feel like now that, you know, it's a good tie and we were talking about all the skill and all the young Swedes.

Like, there's a lot to cover now. Yeah, finally. I mean, finally, but it's been so many defensemen. Yeah, it's like two years. That's true. Okay, we're going there. Yeah. I was going to say, finally a high Swedish prospect.

Two years from Dolly. I know. But it's been so many defensemen. This year it seems like the three highest guys are going to be forward. So that's actually a nice change for Sweden, I think. I love looking at the teams those guys are playing on too, right? Like they're both playing on like, you got like notorious teams in Sweden. But like some of the names of the players, like it's like throwbacks from like, I think like Brandon Gormley is playing on one.

Yeah, yeah, Jason Garrison. Yeah. And the goalies, the goalies for a. Cari Rama? Yeah, it's Cari Ramo and it's also what's his name? Nicholas Vedberg

who had a nice little couple coffee with the Bruins as well so there's a lot of names kind of flashbacks I saw like Nicholas I saw like Nicholas Forg first there I was like oh my God I remember that

Patrick Bergeland yeah It's yeah it's an inchel graveyard basically Okay Dimitia can I throw her another one since we're on This is a full on Swedish episode Yeah So I'll take it a different Different route here

So we're also discussing The best suite this season And I think our top three four maybe we'll say Markey Pedersen headman Sabatajad yeah who do you owe it

so far I think it's it's got to be I think Pedersen right like I actually have them in the MVP discussions yeah I read your story about it so I kind of based on that

I mean just look at the fact the tricky thing is the same is like I think people look now and some of these guys are putting up such hilarious video game numbers where it's like yeah you know like

Andre Settle already has as many points as Jamie Ben had when he won the scoring title a couple years ago. And so guys are going to get into like early mid, mid, on hundreds and points, but Pedersen's not going to get that,

but just like his effect, similar to the scenes you're seeing it at five on five effect, how like he's making others better, how he's so disciplined. Like, it's stuff that I think people sometimes might take a little for granted,

but just seeing him up close here on a day-to-day basis, like I think he's been the best. I think it's a tough one. I mean, Hedman and he's having a better year last season. I think, yeah, but okay,

but I'll throw Sabanajette out. I think, I don't think he gets a tough. It's enough love. Well, he only missed some time there, so I think that's why he's like scoring numbers. Yeah, but I mean, he's at a point per game. I think he hit 20 goals at game 36 or something, point per game, bleeds that rangers in Pernard in Pekh minutes. He's just a horse.

Well, and for him, it's been huge because I feel like the past couple of years, it's been so much on him and Chris Cryder, right? And now Pinarans come in and Perrin's playing into like Jesper fast and all these guys. But that's something we've got to say about Mika, too, is number one, he doesn't play with Pernarine at 5-on-5. So he's not benefiting from that other than maybe soft for matchups. On the other hand, he's their go-to guy defensively, so he still get tough minutes.

But also on the power play, he lost his spot at the left circle. So he's in less of a position, I think, to produce playing the slot position. So it's just someone I like to throw out there. As you said, he missed time, and he's in Panera in Shadow, so I don't think he gets enough love around the league.

He's having a heck of a year. What's going on in California, man? I feel like, you know, you're a position there for a while there. Both, like, the California teams are doing well, and now it's like, you left. Yeah, I left. Oh, you're going.

You're not there anymore. No, I'm in Calgary this year. Oh, wow. But, I mean, they're struggling too. Yeah. You're just following Rasmus Anderson on the daily business? Exactly. It's a good talk or something.

No, you're on a good role. And so that's because you're not telling us. Yeah, exactly. It occurs, eh? I wanted to have a change up. And I wanted to live in Canada just to experience World Canada. Oh, nice. I didn't even know that.

Working with hockey, you kind of want to do that. And it's been great. Now you're getting the authentic experience. Exactly. In terms of California, Yeah, I mean, it is what it is. We knew that the ducks. I actually had the ducks as my upset.

I always have to have upset making the playoffs. Just because I think that John Gibson could have, I mean, carry them to that. Yes. Had he played like last year, he hasn't, so that's it for them. The Kings, they are what they are. The Sharks, however, that's disappointing. Yeah. Hugely disappointing.

Yeah, it's just going to be interesting to see what they do ahead of the trade deadline because I don't know what they can do. It's just moving small pieces. you know, trying to recoup what you can. Brendan Dillon or, Walter Colson won't get you much. Yeah, they've got a lot of guys signed there for a long time and they're not going to get any better.

So, yeah, it's a tough spot. Where do you want to see Joel Thornton play? If he waves. I don't know, man. It's another one where it would be so weird seeing in like a different uniform. So go back to Boston? So it's an old uniform?

Yeah, I guess there'd be something a little comforting in that. I mean, I think you can still play. Like, you know, you're talking about like, we're joking how the city the city's would still be leading the conucks and all the fitness measurements if they played right now like similar like jill thornton with his smarts and his like positioning he's obviously got a bit more physicality in terms of his frame but like he can just hang out under the net there and just kind of like quarterback just sling the puck around the shooters all day so i don't know it'd be it'd be interesting i wonder if he what even wants to move at this point though right like yeah i mean i i mean i the sharks were in calgary the other week and i got so many i talked to as many as many as many as people as I could and I mean I got zero impression either way I feel it was like 50-50 people saying yes or no is you going to worry or not so it's it was it's interesting but it would be fun to see him go somewhere I love that like the old guy without the cup for me that's almost the most interesting storyline with

the playoffs see if if if they didn't have that run a couple years ago I know they lost the Pittsburgh but like it felt like in a way he sort of shed that kind of like for sure playoff choker like hasn't ever done it even though they didn't win like that meant so much to both sando Jose and him that I feel like now he's at the point of his career. He's probably just enjoying his life and he doesn't want to uproot his family and he's fine. But you don't have to. No, it's just a couple months. Yeah.

I don't know. Like would it sort of soil his legacy? No. Especially like, you imagine if he went to a team, he'd still be like the third line center or whatever, but like still probably playing power play minutes. He'd be a contributor.

It's not like he'd be like sitting at the bench cheering them on. And he also doesn't have the one team thing. Yeah. Because he already played for two teams. It's true. So it's, I think, I'm kind of hoping because it's always fun. But, yeah, we'll see where it goes with that. All right, guys.

Let's get out of here. Plug some stuff. What are you working on? I know you're in town doing a bunch of stuff. So where can people check you out and where can they? Well, it's Twitter and Instagram. I guess I got a Facebook page too. So that's that.

Unless you're your viewer from Sweden, so tune into our studio broadcast. Or if you have one of those illegal streaming services that I, I'm not allowed to acknowledge that they exist. But yeah, that's that. So I'm sure I'm not going to spell my handle here. Dimitri, you can link it, wherever. And we'll take it from there. Yeah, and I don't write too much in English anymore,

but I'll try to write more in English on Twitter just to get fans. I finally passed through and followers, so. Yeah, it was about time. About time. I'm just kidding. No, you're great. what's your what's your Twitter handle uh ufer buddine nice and uh all right guys well this is a blast I'm glad we got an excuse to do this and uh yeah it was kind of cool just chatting about the city

it is weird because like it's been a couple years now so they haven't people haven't really been thinking about them obviously because they're not playing on a nightly basis and um but I mean it just shows the impact they had on everyone that they're getting a full week uploaded to them here and that we were getting together to talk about them so it's exciting and well earned I mean amazing careers. Okay. All right, guys. Hopefully we'll get this do this again sometime down the road. Thanks. Thank you for having us.