The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 355: Mock Draft 2020

Episode Date: May 8, 2020

Chris Peters and Cam Robinson join the show to discuss the pros and cons of an early June draft, how the scouting process has changed this year under the unique circumstances, and what each of the teams picking in the lottery should do with their selections. We get into the strengths and weaknesses of each prospect, how their game translates to the next level, and what a reasonable comparable for their style of play is.3:00 Pros and cons of early June draft9:00 How scouting process changes this year23:00 1st pick - Alexis Lafreniere36:00 2nd pick - Quinton Byfield44:00 3rd pick - Marco Rossi52:00 4th pick - Tim Stutzle59:00 5th pick - Lucas Raymond1:03:00 6th pick - Cole Perfetti1:08:00 7th pick - Alexander Holtz1:15:00 8th pick - Jamie Drysdale1:22:00 9th pick - Yaroslav Askarov1:29:00 10th pick - Anton Lundell1:36:00 11th pick - Jake Sanderson1:41:00 12th pick - Jack Quinn1:47:00 13th pick - Connor Zary1:52:00 14th pick - Rodion Amirov1:55:00 15th pick - Seth Jarvis1:59:00 Personal favourites2:06:00 What's the right range for Hendrix Lapierre?See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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And I'm joined today by not one, but two of my personal favorite prospect evaluators in the game. It's my good buddies, Cam Robinson, Chris Peters. What's going on, boys? How are we doing, Tim? We're doing well. Chris, what's going on, man? You taking a big sip of your coffee? Yeah, things are great.

Sipping the coffee, not leaving the house ever. You know, it's kind of great. Not really. Well, the good thing is, both of you guys look like you're staying safe. You're looking healthy. that's the most important part. I hope everyone listening is doing the same. And, you know, the fact that we're staying home,

obviously it's changed from the way we'd be doing this in years past, but it's giving us a lot of extra free time to really deep dive the draft and get ready. And we're going to do a mock draft here today. We're going to work under some assumptions, basically. The league hasn't formally announced it yet, but we're going to assume that they're going to go the route of doing the three-team lottery to avoid a team winning the lottery and winning the Stanley Cup should they resume the playoffs.

And we're going to assume that they're going to do an early June draft, which is just about a month away. So I was telling you guys before I got on the call that I'm sure you guys feel this way for the full year. But for me, you know, I'm mostly an NHL guy, so I'm not really very well versed with these guys except for obviously the top couple names. But the past week or so, I've just been deep diving everything

and looking into the lower leagues and watching crunching tape and really, reading all your articles and stuff. So I'm really excited to get into this with you guys. Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. Like I was saying earlier, too, is that for Chris and I, this is an all-year thing, but it always ramps up in May and June. Pardon me, it's when you really have to kind of dig in and work through the minutia.

And so it's fun to have you join our little island over here. Yeah. And I think the speed, just knowing that the draft could very well be within a few weeks' time, it really forces you to kind of zero in on things and make final decisions. and I've always liked the pressure of the deadline of that final ranking. Man, we're both confident, you can't catch this over Skype, can you? No. Okay, good.

But yeah, so we'll see where it goes, but I love that extra pressure of speeding things up here. I do, I'm kind of of two minds of it because I do think that regardless of when the draft is, it is kind of like that human mentality where you're just going to keep sort of revisiting, And it's like, oh, I got another couple weeks. I'm going to look at this again. And you're going to keep sort of revising it. And you can drive yourself a bit crazy and talk yourself into circles. So I do think that deadline and having that set date really helps with sort of ramping up towards it.

But at the same time, and we're going to get into here sort of the pros and cons of an early June draft. Would we want to you guys want to take sort of the, the sort of unintended consequences or the ramifications of why it's an issue for the kind of scouting. in a prospect evaluation process to be rushing this and doing it before the intended date? Well, you know, I think first off, losing the combine, losing that extra interview time, just the sake of ease, that matters. I mean, I don't think the physical testing is necessarily going to be make or break for any player, but what it does is it allows players to get in front of, more players to get in front of teams. It gets everything kind of out in the open in terms of medical, which I think is one of maybe the,

the most important elements of the combine is getting some of that medical testing done, and finding out, you know, kind of physiologically where some of these guys are at. It allows those strength and conditioning coaches, those opportunities to kind of see how their bodies work. So that's a lost opportunity. You know, and then also, I mean, you look at what coronavirus has already taken from us, which is the World Under 18 Championship, the CHL playoffs, the Memorial Cup, things that really kind of, of allow players to elevate. I think that that matters less for teams and more for the players that are draft eligible

because that's lost opportunities to further prove themselves at a time of year where I think that there's a bit more value placed on kind of their performance and what they've done throughout the course of the season, assuming that they're healthy. So those are the things that I think matter a lot. But I think in talking to scouts, their evaluations are, you know, what they are based on what they've seen. They've had extra time to do video. They maybe spent more time zeroing in on guys that they wouldn't have had because

they've been on the road. And, you know, that kind of takes away some of the time that you can zero in on certain players. But, I mean, you know, it's difficult to not have a complete season. And a lot of these players have a disadvantage in that front compared to their previous draft peers. And, you know, obviously guys like me where, you know, I have to kind of, to focus on big events in terms of live viewings, and it really impacts things, and that also

impacts the amount of times general managers have seen these players as well, and that can factor into the decision-making process as well. Yeah, for sure. And I'll speak to Chris's point there a little bit, too, is that those lost tournaments are lost opportunities for these players, but there are also potential opportunities for teams that have, you know, strong scouting staffs that don't need to rely on a late tournament to find a kid, especially someone who maybe he was having a really nice second half. Maybe the production wasn't exploding,

but their game was coming along nicely, and they would have had that opportunity to really shine in front of some of these GMs and AGMs that go out to the big tourneys. But instead, you're going to rely on your scouting staff to be like, you know what, we saw this kid elevate in March. We didn't need to see him in May to know that he's trending in the right direction.

And, you know, maybe some other teams didn't see that. So there's going to be some opportunities to grab some really nice talent a little bit further down the board, I think, than most years, just because of all the uncertainty around the, the late season and where these kids are going, especially, you know, missing out on the combine and getting to see, you know, if the last time you talked or saw a player was in February or March and all of a sudden you see him at the combine and he's put on 10 pounds and he's maybe shot up a half inch or something like that.

Missing out on that, you're really going to have to trust the staff that have been watching them all year. I think there's, Cam, I know you sort of made this point when you released your most recent rankings for the draft, but it does, it might be sort of an unintended positive consequence, but it does remove potentially some recency bias where, you know, considering that there's an even kind of cutoff date here where pretty much for most the players involved, we all saw them at the same time. And then now the draft's going to happen a couple months since we've seen any of them

place. So there's going to remove some of that potential complicating factor of a team talking themselves into someone because they saw them look really good a couple weeks ago in the Memorial Cup or whatever as opposed to now where it's like everyone's sort of clearing the slate and you're just having to go back and watch. tape from earlier in the season and it might force you to evaluate things from a different perspective than you would have otherwise in an ideal season. Yeah, and I think that that's also one of the negatives against pushing the draft to after

whenever they do the playoffs in the summertime in September, you know, potentially, is that, you know, you've got a kid like Dylan Holloway or maybe a green NCAA kid that's draft eligible getting in there and having a big weekend right before the draft where 90% of the players haven't even started up yet and having that sort of recency. bias come into play too. So I think you're absolutely right that we're all on the same level at this point, but I think it's really going to come down to individual scouting staffs and especially organizations that really put an emphasis on on video scouting throughout the year. They're set up for this right now versus some other teams that maybe don't put that emphasis on and now they're

trying to teach their in-house scouts how to work the video as well as they can. And it's probably a little frustrating for some of these guys. And I've spoken to a couple of a couple of team staff members and and they're they're saying it's going to be it's going to be kind of a bum rush to get this list together that they're scrambling a little bit because a lot of people thought that this was going to get pushed and probably put the took their foot off the gas a little bit like even i did we have our draft guides coming out for dropper prospects and elite prospects and you know we're kind of the mind that we have extra time this year and now all of a sudden it's like we have less time we got to really get moving well when the nchel the NFL draft was um was about to happen

And there was this kind of belief in league circles that there was going to be more variance on the board this year, that the mocks were going to wind up looking horribly wrong because we're just kind of an unprecedented time. So we weren't sure how teams were going to approach it, what they were going to be doing, whether they'd be able to have all their proper meetings and all their proper gathering information. And what actually happened was the opposite where, for the most part, I think, you know, maybe Packers aside, Like most teams actually did pretty logical things and and there was this sort of general consensus of group think and maybe it's because they were all sort of forced to watch the same tape or kind of look at the same analytics and focus on the same stuff.

And so I'm really curious, what do you guys think for the NHL because we don't really have anything to compare this to? But do you think it's going to lead to more out there opinions and teams taking massive home run swings at least like from our perspective it looks like that because we weren't expecting it or do you think it's going to focus teams to really kind of refine their circles and all be wind up looking at the same stuff well i think that this draft in particular was already going to create a lot of variance i think that there are not there is not a lot of consensus and i mean i mean that from from really after one on down i mean that's that's kind of one of the things where

you know there's not not everybody believes that uh that quitting by field's number two or maybe it's Tim Stutzla or maybe it's you know you know maybe it's the goalie there are all these different kind of things and then really once I think the way that this draft kind of shakes out there is a very wide opinion of those guys from maybe 12 to who knows how far down you know like there there I think that there are going to be a lot of things where our mock drafts are not going to be relatable to NHL teams and like one guy that will I'm sure we'll mention today is is Marco Rossi and I know that's a guy that has a wide range of opinions

among scouts. He's had the leading score in the OHL. And, you know, I mean, like, a guy with his numbers is typically like a lock to go in the top 10. I think he probably will go in the top 10, but at the same time, will he be top five? You know, I think that a lot of us in the public sphere

have kind of locked him into a pretty high field. And I don't think that NHL teams necessarily feel that way. So, and I do, I think to your point about taking home run swings. I do think teams are actually going to do that a little bit more. I think this draft is, I think there's less pressure on this draft unless you are the Detroit

Red Wings or Ottawa senators that are going to have like, you know, no doubt situations where you're going to come out ahead. But I think there is less pressure on teams. And I think because of the way that this draft is set up, because you're not going to necessarily be able to make the trades that are normal of a draft, there are, there's more emphasis on going on that amateur side and maybe taking a chance on a guy that you really believe in. And I think that's kind of one of these things where these lack of consensus drafts really lends itself to. So I think it's going to be wildly unpredictable this year.

I guess the good news is that the coyotes can't get in more trouble for measuring prospect brain size or whatever they were doing. Allegedly, I should say, allegedly. Allegedly, that's right. It won't be trained up to take Victor Soderstrom 1. Well, I think it might be a bit of a blessing in disguise also. I'm trying to reach for positives here if you guys can tell. But, you know, teams are still going to, just like they did in NFL, they're going to have

Zoom meetings with prospects and stuff. And they're going to talk to players, obviously. But I do think it's going to make the homework they've done throughout the year in terms of talking to their contacts and doing all of their background on the player is more important because there's only so much you can learn from talking to someone for 10, 15 minutes, over a call like this as opposed to having a full in-person thing. But I think that might actually be a positive because sometimes I do think teams, while it is important that a player has good character and you can see that they have that internal drive and they want to work hard and they're

going to improve their game as they as they grow, like you have cases like the Matt Barzal thing, right? Where it's like he meets with teams and he's like, teams like, oh, we're off put by how confident he is and all of a sudden he falls to 16 or whatever. And you find silly things like that. I think teams can sometimes, especially when you have like a bunch of 50, 60 year old men meeting with a teenager, you have this like clash of the worlds and there's this big time divide between that. So maybe it might save teams a little bit from actually focusing on on what matters and just watching their tape and looking at their production as opposed to all of these other kind of nebulous tangential factors that they otherwise would have considered more heavily.

Yeah, and you can get that information from talking to previous co-tebrose. from talking to trainers, from talking to the kids throughout the year in the room, too, as your scouting staff will do, right? You get an, you get an indication from those, those experiences with the, the players, and from watching them play. You can really often tell who's got that swagger, you know, who's got that drive. You can see that on the ice. And then you can get that information, too, from talking with those people around them. And then, you know, having those Zoom meetings is get a couple of new school guys in the room, too, that can be a little contrarian and say, no, that's okay.

We like that in a player, you know. It doesn't matter that Matt Barzell had a knee injury and he's overly confident. He's going to be good. What type of music does he like? The other thing I want to say, too, into that, to more just kind of bouncing off Cam's point, is this really increases the value of the area scout and the work that they do throughout the season. These meetings are taking place over the course of the year. They're not just happening at the combine, but that's when the general manager gets there.

So now the general manager has to trust the opinion of his area scouts more than being able to have those meetings on his own, whether they're from Skype or whatever else, you know, or Zoom or whoever, whatever system they're using, they talk to these guys, but those things are still happening. But I do think that the person to person, the face-to-face meeting is a lot different than what they're getting over Skype. and I think that that's It's going to be interesting to see kind of how that impacts it and how many teams are really going to be taking the advice of their area scouts which they should be Often anyway because those are the guys that have the best information on those players Are you guys are you guys pro doing the draft in early June or would you rather see a bump back?

I think it's there's a lot of logical flaws to pushing it to early June, but then there's there's a lot of monetary reasons to do it now. And this is a business and that there are a lot of reasons to do it. Like obviously they want to, the TV deals, they want to give their, their partner something to run with and something to talk about for the next few weeks. I get that, you know, scouts don't have contracts past July 1. So are you going to bring in your head of amateur scouting in September who doesn't have a deal? Is he going to want to work without a deal? So there's a lot of issues to go with it. I think that it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, silly to renegotiate the lottery and you're really gifting some nice, some nice benefits to some teams that bottomed out.

We're in previous years that isn't the case. And now some teams that would have had an opportunity to jump up don't have that. And then obviously the conditional picks just throws in a whole other muddied water. But I understand why they're doing it and I understand why teams are probably going to get on board for it. Yeah. And I kind of, I've kind of seen it both ways. And initially I didn't like it at all. I just thought that, you know, not having the the system.

in place that, you know, having to redo the lottery and all those other things. Like, I don't mind that it, you know, it benefits the Red Wings and senators a lot. I mean, they're terrible. They need the help. So, I mean, I don't really care. But on the, but one of the things that I was talking to a scout who kind of was like, you know, it was more just speculation, but he's just like, you know, I'm a little worried about what this early draft is going to mean for the guys that don't have contracts and maybe they don't

get the contract next. And maybe there are layoffs. And maybe they're, you know, you suddenly, your hospital. hockey operations budget, you've used it, you've gotten what you needed out of them, and then there are layoffs or furloughs or things like that, which I think, you know, it depends on the language of the contracts. A lot of them aren't going to allow for that kind of thing. But at the same time, I think it's a valid concern for hockey operations people,

especially those on expiring contracts. But I think in terms of logistically, I think that the general managers, the things that I don't love about it is given the fact that the salary cap is, is at worst not going to move. This is, the draft is a time where some of those general managers can make those kind of headaches either disappear or at least massage them a little bit.

You know, we've seen, you know, guys like different trades over the years where, where teams were able to hide money, whether it was, you know, trading Pobel Datsuk and all that other stuff

where you can make some of those headaches go away at the draft. I don't think we're going to be able to see as much of that this year. I think teams like the Montreal Canadiens that have a stockpile, draft picks and the senators as well, the stockpile of draft picks that you're probably thinking you can use in a different way. Now you can't. Maybe packaged to move up or down, you know, like those are the types of things that we're

going to see. And I think not having the trades, which is one of the things that is the most fun for casual fans of the draft. I think it's a reason that the draft gets more attention. It's not because of the prospects. I mean, I'm a prospects writer. I love the prospects. It's what I'm passionate about.

but I know that the interest in the draft is fueled largely by the transactional nature of it. So the room changes when Gary Bettman says I have a trade to announce. So those are the types of things that you lose. But I think also the attention, the opportunity for guys, you know, for whatever the broadcast networks are going to do with this, I'm fascinated to find out. I don't think it's going to be as expansive as what ESPN was able to do with the NFL draft. shout out company man um but you know like that's those are some of the things that i wonder and

obviously the ratings are not even going to be anywhere close i think they'll probably be the highest rated NHL draft of all time but not exactly a high bar to clear i mean i'm i'm skeptical i'd certainly think there's obviously an appetite and it gives people like us something to talk about and write about and do podcast about and and that's great and i think we all need that uh sort of distraction or that extra uh injection of content in our lives these days but at the same time, I think maybe they're overselling a bit how much it's going to inflate interest. Like, you're right. I think your casual fan for the NFL, you're watching college football and you're familiar with these guys for three years or whatever for the most part.

Whereas I don't think your casual fan who otherwise wasn't going to tune into the NHL draft is all of a sudden deep diving the 70 first overall pick and getting familiar with that before the draft and then tuning in just to see what happens there. So we'll see how it goes. I think I get it. it from a monetary perspective and from that attention perspective and kind of dictating the conversation the trades are the most fun part and especially a team like tampa bay for example i don't think anyone's going to cry about their ability to get better moving forward but i certainly think it caps what they can do because i think they were going to enter the draft this year and try to probably trade away either palat or tyleron or caloran or what have you so we'll see what teams are going to do

um i just think and we're going to do this mock draft now of the lottery and we're going to work under the assumption which i do think the league is probably going to do they've floated it all already which makes me think that they're just waiting for public approval to sway before they pull the trigger on it but it's going to be a three-team lottery based on point percentage from the regular season and we're just going to do it basically based on the standings right now for the top 15 picks and I think my issue with it is on the one hand the draft the whole point of it is for bad teams to get better but on the other hand the issue is that all the complaints people have about the NHL being kind of a Mickey Mouse League that's run

without any foresight or plan, all of a sudden they're just on the fly deciding to change things. I think that's an issue because I'm not sure how much publicly teams would have admitted to changing their game plan, but I think if you enter this season knowing that the lottery was going to work this way, I imagine there would have been a couple teams that probably would have tried to lose a few more games strategically knowing that the odds were in their favor of getting a top two pick. Like, do you think that's fair to say?

Oh, without a doubt, because, you know, I know that this isn't a generational draft, but, you know, it's not like the penguins and the devils battling it out for Lemieux, but it would fall in line, right? Because basically, this day and age, if you end up 31st in the league, you expect to draft fourth. Like, your most likely spot is third, but, but like that, that's kind of baked into what you're, what you're expecting is that, you know, I'm sure the Red Wings, this historically bad year, they were like, hopefully we can get number two. Like, you know, that their expectations were,

and I was, I was razing on them all year saying they were going to fall to four and they were going to take Ascroft. And it's just, this is working out so much better for them. And like Chris said, though, these are bad teams. So it's not the end of the world that they're getting juiced up for it, but I think some other bad teams probably would have tried to have been a little worse. Yeah. All right.

Well, Tim Murray is just, I don't know where Tim Murray's at these days, but he's just, he didn't die for this. Let's just say that. Um, okay, we're going to do the mock draft here. So I divvy it up. We're going to do snake draft. We're going to talk about all the picks. So really it's kind of like a communal setting.

But Chris, you're on the clock here. You're going first. And then Cam's going to go second. And then I'll go third and we'll do the wrap rounds and we'll do snake format. But Chris, the floor is yours. You're running Detroit Red Wings. Who are you going to take? Yeah.

You know, I think, I think it's, uh, pretty easy. Um, you know, it's, it's not, it's never as easy as we think it is. Everybody does their homework. But with that, the Detroit Red Wendings. are proud to select Alexei LaFrenier. I mean, you know, what more can you say? He really took off this year. I think one of the things that I love about Lefrenier

besides the skill level and just the, just everything, the whole package, the hockey sense, he always elevates. He always brings his best. In big moments, he seems to come up big, but he also is hits like a truck, you know, engages physically, uses his body position incredibly well, and then he scores a ton of points.

I think that he's a cornerstone player for the Red Wings for a long time to come. I think you could make an argument that they could really use another center down their lineup to go along with Dylan Larkin. And maybe you consider a byfield and they certainly can use an elite gold tender in their system as well. But I think that with what LaFrenier brings, he is a game changer for them. And I think that he takes them to, you know, obviously there's still a lot of work to be done, but he takes them to a higher level. Yeah, the Red Wings need a little bit of everything. So not that, I think the common refrain we're going to have here, like we're going to mention which team has the pick in our mock,

but we're probably going to take who we think is the best player available, because I think we all agree that at this point in your, in your franchise cycle, you shouldn't be trying to fill holes because you don't even know what it's going to look like two, three, four years down the road when these guys are ready to be game changers. But for the Red Wings, they've had 21 picks the past two years. They've got, you know, a bunch of picks this year as well. And so it's a real chance for them to keep moving in the right direction here

and getting a potential franchise player like this is huge. It's the reason why I gave you this pick, Chris, is because I knew if I gave it to Cam, he'd go the other way, and it would just lead to this podcast, just going off the rails right out of the gate. So I wanted to keep it on a smooth track. But at the same time, as any good podcast host, I'm going to let all voices be heard here.

Cam, what's your rebuttal? Yeah, so I'm probably the only public list to have Byfield 1. And, you know, that's not a knock on Lafrenierre. I have, he's a very reasonable, justifiable first overall pick. You know what? If you gave me one, I might have still taken Lafranier here too because I'd be picking for the team. Like Chris said, though, the Red Wings, they could definitely use another center in their organization and Byfield's the best of the bunch here.

But you know what? I think that's what's going to happen. I think Lafranier is going to go one. and I think he's going to be a terrific piece for them that will step into the league next season and, you know, make an impact. So, you know, he's going to be more impactful than what we saw from Jack Hughes or Capocaco this year. I really liked what I saw from him in elevating his skating. His agility came, you know, another step this year where he's so shifty. And then that shot, too, it's really come along.

It's heavy. It's quick. So, you know, he's whatever, nine, ten months older than byfield. But he did what he had to do to maintain that spot at the top of the board. he kept getting better and I think it's a good pick for Detroit. Yeah, he had just rattled off some stats here for those so inclined. He had 2.15 points per game this year, which was the 30th best 18-year-old season in the queue. The issue is, and he's like, he's like right there in the ballpark with like Drew N in 2013-14,

Brad Richard, Jonathan Huberto, Voracek, Eilers. The clerical issue here is that most of those guys were in their draft plus one season when they were 18 based on quant hockey stats. And so we kind of need to factor that in as well. I think, you know, when I was doing my prep for this, I was looking at all these different, even, I was looking back at the midseason reports and rankings because I wanted to see how much opinions had fluctuated

and how much the industry had changed on certain guys. And when I was reading Bob McKenzie's mid-season report and he had LaFranier there, he made, raised an interesting point. I think it was like a scout he was talking to, but they were saying this, distinction that you have to figure out how you want to approach in the draft between who are the best players right now and who do you think is going to be the best player however many years down

the road right and i think everyone is in clear unanimous agreement that lafranier is the best player right now right like he kind of showed it this season he showed it definitively again at the world juniors when he avoided that catastrophic knee injury and help canada win gold and won the tournament MVP. But I do think because of that year and how much we know that affects development and because of the positional difference, Bifield does have a very interesting case. Like, Chris, I think you were maybe underselling how big of a decision it is because I think it's much closer.

I'm still not sure if I'm ready to go down Cam's path of complete lunacy. But I do think it's very, very close. Like the margin between the two is razor thin. I think if you're a team and you're picking number one, you almost, most GMs would just have to take Lefrenier because they'd get like crucified if they didn't. But it's funny because if it works out this way and the Red Wings get it, I think Steve Eiserman is like the one of the few, very few GMs

that would have the stones to actually avoid that group think and just pick who he thinks is the best prospect. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think it's really close in terms of in that second factor of who's going to be the best down the road. I mean, we have to also factor in how. how much younger Byfield is than LaFranier. I mean, that is essentially a year difference of development in terms of where they are

physically, mentally. I mean, like, Byfield's obviously a physical specimen on top of everything else. And I think, you know, from what he is now to what he can be, I think there is a much more significant gap between those two things for him. And that's why I think it is a little difficult. But there's always risk in that projection. You know, I think one of the things, the reason that opinions have shifted more favorably towards Lafranier, more significantly towards LaFrenier over the course of the year is that we saw different moments

and it has nothing to do with the World Juniors because Byfield was in a completely different role and was not utilized necessarily in the same way. He was utilized much more similar to Nathan McKinn and Jonathan Druent in their own draft years at the World Juniors. but it's just there I think there were times this season where you started to see the season where on Lafrenia more I feel like that there were there were a little there was a little less or sorry I feel more there was a little less consistency there was a little less game to game dominance I think that he would have those games where he really popped and I think that's one of the things where it's like okay well you know that that kind of speaks to different

mental toughness things of those nature like I I think that Byfield's a mature kid. I think he's a good player, a great athlete and everything else that he has done suggests that he's got a high, high, high ceiling. But it's hard to pass up what you can see now and say, hey, I think that they're going to at least be pretty similar in the long term as well. Yeah, I just think if people are having a tough time of visualizing this, basically if Byfield was born 26 days later, he would have been in next year's draft, right?

And if Lefrenia was born 26 days earlier, he would have been in last year's draft? Right. So that's a pretty massive, especially at such a crossroads point of development. Like it's, we're talking right now, part of the reason why the league wants to do this early June draft is so that it can stick with a schedule of getting players in to their kind of developmental team and program and working and not just wasting a full season. And we're like, this is such a key part of their development. They can't afford to lose a couple months here.

And we're talking about like a full year of that key thing where that's why it's so funny when people cite the World Junior production. And it's like, oh, look how much better one was than the other. It's like, well, yeah, don't look at it. But Beifield's numbers are pretty much identical to what Lafranier did last year when he was his age, right? So I just think we'll see. I imagine next year if Byfield does play for Team Canada, he's probably going to be the best player at that tournament. Right. So I think I'm not too worried about that.

But it's what's the, what's the realistic? I kind of want to do some comps here. for players and and i want to caution because i think people are generally pretty lazy with them they usually go with players who are like either from the same place or whatever or or just look the same or um they're unfair because they set these unreasonable expectations for people to live up to it's like oh this guy byfield could be the next uh getty market it's like oh well he let's let's be real here he probably won't be you know the second or third best player of his entire generation but um i do think for these purposes it's useful for people who

who aren't familiar with the players to help kind of visualize who we're talking about. So what do you see as kind of like a realistic prototype of Lafranier getting into the league, what he can do right away, how he's going to play? Because he doesn't have that necessarily blazing speed, but I think everyone, when you watch his tape and when you read about him, kind of raves about how he processes the game quickly, how he sees the field, how he can move the puck around, how the creativity and the vision as a playmaker.

So what's he going to look like at the NHL level when the game does? does speed up. I think he's he's kind of a hybrid of, you know, Taylor Hall, David Pasternak. He's got, he doesn't have the speed of Hall, but he's going to be one of those rare wingers who can dictate everything. And then, you know, he's got, he's got maybe not as high a goal scoring ability as Pasternak has, but he's kind of right in that middle zone there. So he's going to be a front line player. And, and like you said, these, these comps are, I have to do them all the time for draft guides and I hate it. It kills me trying to try to do it because it is. Sometimes it's so hyperbolic or it's just you're reaching a little bit to try to find comparison because all these players are

so they're individuals and they're so unique especially when we get down to byfield too but for me lafranier is going to be that that high end goal scoring player who can also set up and make his teammates better which is so key for my winger yeah and you know like this is i promise this is not a regional bias thing but i feel like he's huberdue plus like he's he's he's he's he's more I think he's more physical. And you look at the way that Hubertos' development went. He was on a bit of a longer track. I think that LaFrenier is on a much more immediate track

in terms of the way that he plays. I think that he sees the ice similarly. He engages physically. He can protect the puck in a similar way. And we've seen now Hubert O has grown into one of the top wingers in the game right now over these last two seasons, I feel like, where he really popped. I see him playing more that style.

you know, in a much more immediate way than Hubert O could have because the physical development is further along than where Hubert O was. And that's the kind of, those are the guys when I kind of see them play body type similar, different things. There are a lot of similarities there. But I think that LaFrenier tops out as a better player than Huberto long term. There's a lot of players that, I actually thought I saw a bit of Willie Nealander when I was watching his tape because I would.

necessarily say he's like the fastest skater but he makes these plays on the move that allow him to look like he's moving faster than he actually is because he's sort of like processing him more quickly than his opponents and he's not the biggest guy per se but like everything you see he's like not afraid to get into those dirty areas and score it's funny because the knock against kneelander was the exact opposite but this year I think he led the goal in terms of led the league in terms of goals from the inner slot so he clearly bucked that so I think like that it's very interesting because there's so many different players you could you could point to him but I do think and why he's such a safe number one pick here like i really barring some sort of a catastrophic injury

and knock on wood that won't happen i think like the projection for him is fairly safe in terms of visualizing what that skill set he already has is going to look like in the game right even if he's not able to be as prolific and as dominant because of the skating i just think the skill set and the tools that he has are very projectable to just drop them right into an hl and have a well above average player right out of the gate Yeah, absolutely. I think the work ethic, too, is so key and his ability to play down low. And he's just not afraid to go anywhere.

And he asserts himself. And I think that that's one of those things that separates him from a lot of these most recent, you know, top picks is that they haven't had to play that way because they either had the speed or they had, you know, had different tools. And I feel like he has really separated himself because of the way how aggressive he is, how physically he plays, how strong he is. there's just a lot to like about his total package of skills which is why i kept him at one cam you uh you're up at two here and keep in mind i've got picks three and four here in the wrap around so be careful oh i know yeah should i go off the board already hey uh you know it's a it's a it's a layup for the sends uh they get themselves the number one center in quitt and by field uh i think that as we've been talking about is that you know with lafranier that

There's there's value in the safety that he projects to have, that that floor is very, very high. Whereas with Byfield, his floor is a little bit lower because when you're dealing with someone as young as he is, we don't know what he's going to look like in 10 months when he's the same age as Lafranier. I expect it's going to be much better. But these developmental curves aren't always linear. But what you're swinging on is a player so rare, so unique to have that size, that skating, the skill, the shot, his vision. it's it's it's almost like a unicorn we see it come around so infrequently and so if you can grab something like that you you do all you can and and you know there are people out there that mostly public lists that are talking about him sliding down to three or four something like that

and if that did happen which i would be very very surprised if it did if that did happen it would mean that teams were were afraid to put it out there to to draft a player second overall who might be back in junior next year and if he is if byfields back in subbury next year that's fine because as we said, he's going to go to the world juniors and everyone's going to see what he is on a big stage. He will dominate that level. He'll dominate the OHL. Maybe he goes over to Europe.

I don't think he can probably with the CHL player agreements. But, you know, there's going to be opportunities for him to grow as a player next season and then step into the NHL or step in the NHL right away and kind of work his way up. He won't be a plug and play on a first lane like Lafranier is. And I think that's fine, especially for a team like Ottawa, that they need everything at this point. but that number one center who can anchor around with Brady Kachak, and then he got Shabbat on the back end with it, those are pillars that you can really build around.

And so for me, that's a layup for the sentence. Yeah, he 82 points in 45 games a season, 1.82 points per game. It's the 19th best all time in the OHL for age 17, just ahead of guys like Stamcoe, again, and Svetnikov. I've heard of all of those guys. A top five in the OHL for age 17 seasons. Can you guys guess who, who's in the top five all time for age 17? Lindrauss number one, right?

Yeah, 149 points in 57 games. It's not bad. 17. I mean, I've looked at this like how many times and I can't visualize my elite prospects board right now. McDavid. McDavid second, yep. Yeah. Tony Tanti, third.

Yeah, I was going to say Tony Tanti. I knew his name was on there. Sam Gagne, fourth and Mark Savard, fifth. That's right. Yeah. Mark Savard was the one that always. always was like really and then he's like oh and then you look at his NHL numbers you're like whoa he was good she was amazing the thing with byfield it's tough for me is like um if we're trying

to do uh sort of how playing out two scenarios of like what it's it's easy to visualize what it's going to look like if everything comes together and he just explodes in the NHL because of that size speed and the shot but when we're talking about like okay what's like his realistic floor in NHL. There's so few players who profile like him because typically when big players fail in NHL, it's because they can't skate well enough. With him, I don't think that's going to be an issue. It's more so sort of seeing the game and thinking it two, three steps ahead like Lafranier does so well. So is there even a player you can think of in the league right now that's like, oh man, this guy's so physically dominant, but unfortunately he's not great because of whatever limitations.

Like there's so few examples that I can think of like that. Yeah, they don't make it anymore. Yeah. Yeah, like Brent Burns as a winger back in Minnesota maybe. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. His ability and the cool thing about him too is that he's 6'5 and he'll probably play

at 220, 2.30. Right now he isn't physically dominant in the OHL. Like he obviously uses that reach. He uses his balance. His balance actually could improve yet still, but that physicality. that nastiness that we saw from Eric Lindross when he was in junior and brought to the NHL, that's not there yet. And I think that that's something that's going to come with him as he continues to mature as an individual,

both physically and mentally. And, you know, he's going to have, his coaching staffs are going to be all over him to be that type of player. And I think that if he's back in junior next year, we're going to see a lot more of that. And so oftentimes when we see these monstrous prospects dominating in junior, it's because they're physically bigger than everybody else and stronger, you know, Jonah Gajevich was just a horse in junior there, and you couldn't touch him in front of the net, but obviously the rest of his skill set doesn't translate up

when you're playing against 30-year-olds who are also physically dominant. So what Byfield has, I think that really plays into his upside, is that when he adds that ability to just hold you off with one hand and walk right around you, is that he's going to be borderline untouchable. Yeah, and I think it's an important distinction because I think sometimes people get carried away

where they think like people who are into analytics or into this new modern way of hockey are like against size or just think it doesn't have a place in the game. And I always push back to that because I just think where I have issue and where I think teams get in trouble is when they target size purely in isolation just because a guy's big, but he doesn't really do anything else. And that's clearly not the case here with Byfield. If you can, I think if anything, with the way the game's headed and with teams being more willing to use smaller undersized defenders, if you have that size, but you,

you can also skate and play a skill game and do everything else, it gives you an even bigger advantage because all of a sudden now you can sort of be more versatile in terms of winning matchups physically, but also still using your skating like Bifield can. So I think he unlocks so many different ways to play for teams. And if he does go to Ottawa number two here, just this idea of him potentially playing with Brady Kachuk and just keeping the puck away from opposition and just being able to play physically

but also fast is so enticing. So I really I think it's a slam dunk pick I think he's pretty clearly going to go number two I think any mocks that have him not going number two or a kind of overthinking it a bit or or just trying to you know get extra clicks or something because I just think it's a it's a basically it's it's it's a borderline lock here. I don't it's always easier to pick two yeah I feel like it's always easier to pick two and you know the decision is you you know the other team makes the decision for you. And yeah, and you're right.

And I think the things that Byfield does well, the things that he does the best are things that are much more difficult to acquire than that toughness that, you know, you have, it takes a mentality and that takes repetition. I think that's a reason that he could potentially go back to junior. I think Lefrenier is the only lock to play in the NHL next season. You know, just lock, complete lock. I mean, there are guys that certainly could. but there are elements of his game that can continue to develop in a way that I completely agree.

He could be an untouchable player if you put him with Brady Kachuk. That line is going to have the puck all the time. And it's kind of fascinating. I'm sure Pierre Dorian is already fascinating about it right now. And otherwise those mocks that are not putting them at number two, obviously have no faith in Pierre Dorian. So here's an interesting thought exercise for you guys. I don't think it's mathematically possible for the senators.

to pick first and fourth because if they did the three team lottery like the worst they could fall is number one if they did win the first pick so they'd have one and three or whatever but if you were in the center position and it was possible and you had the choice of having the first and the fourth pick in this draft or the second and the third pick which way would you go i guess cam would go two three for sure because you think by feels a best prospect but chris if you had the choice yeah i'd go two three as well yeah yeah yeah i think so too well i'm excited because I have the third and the fourth pick coming up here. So I control the board.

If you guys have any offers, if you want to move up, move down. Now I'm just going to make the picks. Okay. Okay. Here's my third pick. I think Marco Rossi is my third best prospect in this class. And I get all the concerns about him. He's a September 23 birthday.

So similar to a lot from year. He's even a couple days older. He's listed at 5-9-180. Now, my pushback to that would be he's built different. Like, he is thick with three C's. Like, think about it this way. I'm, I'm, you guys are looking at me right now in video. I'm a reasonably built, I've hung out with you guys in person.

I'm a regular person, right? Like, I look normal. Yeah, you look good to him. Yeah, you're good. So I'm, I'm 6.3-180. Markle Rossi's 5-9-180. so he like when you when i watch him play i just i'm i'm so like mesmerized i can't look away i think this entire concern about him being undersized is just totally missing the point because

my bigger concern in the nchel when translating and sort of projecting prospects with size is much more kind of like a width and a strength thing and ability to get pushed off the block as opposed to an height thing which rarely ever comes into play play. So with Rossi, like, I just think he's going to be so strong and as such a low center of gravity that I just, I don't really, I think he could probably plan in the NHL next season to be perfectly honest. And I'm really, I just think I might be a bit over or a bit too high on him, based on you, Chris saying earlier that you think, you know, he's probably not going to go top five. But I've seen Mox where he's like seventh or eighth. I think like Craig Button and a couple

others don't have them very high. But I just think with the profile and with the tape perfectly matching it where it's not like he's, you know, kind of flukally getting these totals, like everything matches up when you watch it. I just think the concerns about him don't really translate to actual NHL-NHL-level problems. Yeah, you know, it's interesting to me. I think, you know, one of the things I hear constantly is how many 5-9 number one centers are there?

Because that's who you're trying to draft at number three. And I think that. And I agree completely. He is built differently. His lower half is solid. And he is very difficult to get off the puck. He protects the puck well. He does not shy away from contact. He gets involved. He can get under players. I think that he does those kinds of things well. I think that, you know, at his, I think his foot speed, his size is a net is, is, is a, is a reason to hedge a little. I think that it doesn't bother me. I don't think it's necessarily like this, this, you know, it's not bad. It's just just one of those things where, you're a smaller guy, you do have to be a bit quicker. You have to be able to escape a little bit better. And I don't necessarily see that all the time with him. And I'm also, you know, I still have him pretty high. I mean, I like, you know, I don't know that he's necessarily, you know,

going to go top five based on, you know, kind of who's there. I think if we were also using this kind of draft system where, say, the senators had the number three pick, I wouldn't necessarily view them as, taking, you know, him. So I think that that's another thing. But he's an interesting player. I mean, you obviously look at the production and different things and the way that he plays. And I'm fascinated by him.

But yeah, but it's a tough thing to do. I'd be interested to hear kind of where Cam is on him. And, you know, just think that for me, there are just a few better options there. Not many because I have them really high on my board. but I still think that it would be tough for me to pick them three. Yeah, for me, I love Marco Rossi. And he, as you said, he is 5 foot 9, but he's 180 pounds. He's a fire hydrant.

He gets in there and he will not be denied at the junior level. So he loves to engage and get into that home plate area. And, you know, his goals aren't from the outside. His plays are designed to fight through. And now that brings up the question, pardon me, is that is he going to be able to do that at the NHL. And, you know, speaking with, speaking with scouts who know him well and the people that are closest to him is that his, his will to be the best is among the top in this class. And he plays that Brad Marchant's style of game, you know, without some of the licking,

which is nice. And so, but he, he's got that talent. He's a similarly built player. I think the skating's very similar. I think the shot is very similar. I think the, the, willingness to get in there and muck it up is right in line with that too. And so, you know, You ask the question is how many number one centers are 5 foot 9. And I can't think of anything off the top of my head. But, you know, maybe he slides over to the wing. And for a team like Ottawa, if they took him number three, that would be okay because they just took by field at number two. And they have Colin White.

They've got Norris. They've got some centers that they can, you know, hope to be a number two center for them. So if Rossi is their guy, he can, he could be a number one winger. But I think that we touched on this at the beginning is that the variance between, everyone's lists, including all the NHL teams, starting at number three there to all the way to probably not. And so I think you will see teams, especially someone like Ottawa, who are picking two, three, and they're going to go by field, they're going to get that center, is that you look at filling a positional need at number three.

Do they say, okay, let's take the best winger available? And if you're talking about the best winger, then that's probably not Marco Rossi, because right now he's a centerman. Do you take the only true, you know, potentially number one defense? and Jamie Driesdale there to kind of fill that cupboard for you too. So I love Rossi. Pardon me. He's number three on my board the last time I released.

I do not see him slipping outside of the five, the top five for me. It'll be really interesting to see what Ottawa does with that second pick, though, because I could see them getting a little fancy. Yeah, especially if they have two, three, I could see them. It's not necessarily galaxy breeding because I think the third slot is wide open enough where they could justify taking someone else. But I do think they could potentially take a defenseman there. I think with Rossi, part of the reason why I'm not really concerned about the speed thing

is because of that sort of tenacious playing style where he's so aggressive, and I think he's going to learn how to use that lower half of his to box people out and to leverage bigger players. Marshan's a really good example of that. It's funny. Actually, it's a cross-positional comp, but what do we've seen Ryan Ellis do in the NHL where he's obviously diminutive in terms of his size in terms of his height, but he constantly just wins physical battles against 6-2-6-3 forwards because he gets low, he basically takes out their legs

and he just boxes them out and they can't do anything against it. So if this was the 90s and I was like, oh man, Marco Rossi at 5-9 is going to go into the middle of the paint with his head down and Scott Stevens or Chris Pronger are there, I'd be a bit more concerned about it. but I just don't see in today's game that being as big of a concern of him being 5.9. So I really think the skill itself translates so well. And I mean, the fact that he led not only the OHL, but then CHL entirely with his 120 points and 56 games,

it's just so impressive. So I think I have my number three, and now I move to number four. And with the LA Kings pick, I'm going to take Tim Stutzla here. What do you guys think about that? Fine by me. okay with that cam

i'll explain yeah i think i think stizzle is you know right in the mix and in l a it's disgusting how deep their prospect pool is they have they have it all stacked up pretty well there and so to add a a dynamic skater i think that you know they don't have they have everything really really well versed

and stock up but they they don't have a ton of really supremely fast skaters and someone who can add that mix you know they obviously grabbed turquat last year who's a cerebral and very talented center prospect. I actually see Stutzler as being a winger at the next loan. I think that's okay, especially because they have Turcotte, they have Valardi, they've got JAD, they've got a bunch of centers in their system, and putting Stutzla in there and adding a dynamic potentially top line winger, that's going to be just fine on the left side

for them. And I think that he's a guy that could go earlier than that. I think he's a guy that could go pushing 9-10. But for L.A. in a system that's just... right for the pick and that he's a really nice shot there. Yeah, I just, I think that in their system right now, they have guys that are similar, but they don't have a lot of players that are as skilled. And I think that he's, he brings an element in terms of his playmaking ability, his,

his, you know, his ability to make those around and better. Those are things that, that I think will, will matter. I think he projects favorably more like a top line wing or a top. six wing. I agree with that. I don't think, you know, I don't see center for him. And I think, you know, he's definitely, he's not Patrick Kane, you know, but I think that like he kind of, he plays in a similar fashion. I love the way that he plays off the rush. I like the way that he can kind of create with time and space and, and, and his ability to extend plays. But, but he's, he's such a, he's such a unique player. And I, and it's kind of been fascinating to watch the

growth of, you know, kind of the German player and, and him being kind of at the forefront of it now on this, you know, this, this, this current wave that also includes more at Cider. And obviously, you know, Leon Drey Cytle is the Pied Piper, but I think that Stichla is, is a guy that is going to make a team better. I think he could could also go to the HL immediately next year, which would be an interesting, I think that's not a bad thing for him. I saw Cider this year. I thought it was really positive for his development to, to come to North America. I think that, you know,

Raymond was actually supposed to, or sorry, Sitzler was supposed to come to North America this year. He was going to play in the U.S.HL, and then he was going to go to the University of New Hampshire, or he could have potentially also gone to the W.HL. He chose none of those options, stayed home and, you know,

became one of the best 18-year-olds to ever play in Germany. So it's really fascinating to watch him. I think that he's a guy that should go in that top-bile range. He's number three for me. I'm a big fan of his and I think he's going to be a really good player. Yeah, I mean, listen, like the DEL, I'm not sure how much people view that compared to the other pro leagues, but it's still a pro league playing against a grown man. He had 34 points in 41 games there, look great on the international scene,

and was really good at the world juniors. And I think he's definitely been sort of the biggest kind of riser here and becoming this sort of trendy pick where it has become a discussion, especially with some of the limitations we talked about byfield and him falling a little bit, where, people are starting to talk about Stutzla potentially getting into number two here and it's like yeah, byfield's good but have you seen Stutzlo? Like it's kind of becoming this like trendy hipsters sort of thing in circles to prove that you actually follow prospects and you know you know some of the stuff but I think the modern skill set is great. He's going to be super dynamic. Everyone

talks about him being very high octane. I definitely view him as more of a winger than a center. I think he's going to be an electric neutral zone puck carrier and when I watch him I see who do you who do you guys see as a most logical comp because I see a lot of Nick Eelers in terms of that sort of dynamic puck carrying ability. The other one that I thought of was I'm not sure how similar they are in terms of other skills, but I think one of the knocks against Stetsla is sometimes he can be try to do like a bit too much because he is so fast and so dynamic that maybe he forces it a bit and gets himself into trouble. And I see a lot of like young Kevin Fiala with that where like he's so fast and he's such a good skater and he's so fast and he's such a good skater. He's so dynamic. He's

dynamic that he'd kind of, I think he will eventually figure it out as we saw with Fiala and the NHL this year, but it might take a bit of time for him to figure out the sort of geometry and dimensions of how best to attack using that speed. I think that's pretty, I think that's pretty adept for him. I see Nikola's Yidders as well because he gains the zone with such frequency and he's an elite transitional player. And I think that's what Sitzel is going to turn out to be as well. I think coming out of the DEL, which I've actually, you know,

I'd be curious to know how many people who have number two, how many games of the DEL they watched, and especially because his rise kind of came after the World Junior Championship. I actually thought he was better in the first half of the year in the DEL for the most part for the games I saw. He became more comfortable, and then he started to do a little more himself, and that's where I think he got him a little bit

where he has that initial blast of speed through the neutral. And he's thinking wide almost every time, and then he'll do a little overhandle. And there's not a lot of back pressure in the DEL. So he has a little more time if he doesn't get that first DEC off or if he doesn't get to cut straight to the home played area. If he has to go around the net, that there's more time and space there. So I think personally that coming over and playing the American League next year is the right move for him. I also think that transition is going to be a lot more difficult for him than it was for Mo Sider,

who was more of a well-rounded player and more of an intelligent thinker of his awareness is a little bit better. Obviously different positions, but it's more challenging probably to translate that as a top. defender. So I think Stutzel has that big, big upside to be a dynamic, speed-driven, transitional player who has good hands, his shot, you know, add some strength to it and it's going to improve as well to be a number one, you know, a top-line winger, which is something great to get. But I think you're going to wait a little bit longer than a lot of people think with him just because he's putting at points in a pro league right now. Well, and he's an interesting fit for the Kings. I remember Chris, when you and I did our, we did like a post-draft winners and losers last year at my place. And I mean,

the Kings are just adding Callia Fagamo, Turcotte, obviously, to, you know, Kupari, Akil Thomas. They trade and get Tyler Madden this year. They've got 11 picks. Three seconds, two thirds, two fourths, two fourths. And they already have 10 for next year. And considering they're probably going to be sellers again next season, whenever that happens, they'll probably get even more picks for the 2021 draft. So they're doing a kind of sneaky great job here of all of a sudden just embracing this

youth movement and properly rebuilding. So I really like this pick year because he adds that. kind of dynamic skating element to them that they could really use in that group. Cam, you're on the board here at number five, the Anaheim Ducks. Let's keep this going. We're an hour in and we're four picks in, so we got to blast. We got rapid fire. Here we can go.

The Ducks, I'm just going to keep it. Lucas Raymond. For me, Raymond, he has been challenged a little bit this year because he wasn't gift-wrapped a top six job in the SHL. like his buddy Alexander Holtz was. If you flip those guys, if they were playing on opposite teams, and Raymond was playing in the top six all year, I think he'd be a locked-in number three in his class

and maybe pushing by field for two because he's that good a player. He has the speed that Stutzler has, but he also has the IQ, the awareness, the shot, the distribution. I like a lot more of what Raymond brings than Stutzla. I think he's basically Stutzla plus for me. And you just didn't get to see it because he just wasn't getting the opportunities in the S-HL. you know, we saw him dominate the J20, the super lead as a 16 year old, just ferociously dominated.

And that's being physically immature. You know, he's at this point, he's 510, 511, 165 sort of thing. There's a lot more that's going to be packed onto that frame. And it's not going to slow him down. So for me, I think the ducks need a little bit of everything. I think it would have been, you know, I think they'll take a long look at Dreesdale here because, you know, they could definitely use something on the back end. But, you know, go best player available because you're looking at a guy who probably has more

center qualities than Stutzla does, but I still think he kind of washes out as a top line winger, but he does everything so well. So, you know, Alexander Holtz has the better shot, but then I think Raymond has everything else a little bit better. Yeah, yeah, I got to agree with Cam too. Like, I, Stutzla and Raymond are neck and neck for me. I think they're super close. And, you know, I think that absolutely Raymond, if you've, you know, you look at his full body of work, it's incredible.

I was actually just for fun, I watched his U-18 highlights from last U-18 worlds, and I was there. I got to see it. It was unbelievable. And, you know, especially in the gold medal game, he scores a hat trick. This kid has so much skill.

And his one-on-one skill was especially on display in that tournament. I think it's going to take a little while for him to show that against older, stronger competition. But he makes plays. He is super smart and he competes every single shift. And I think that you can't go wrong. I think that's a fine pick right where he is.

Yeah, it's very rare that you get a player like him where it's so projectable that you'll be able to basically run your offense through him, whether it's as a power play quarterback or whether it's at 515 in the Ozone because he sees the ice so well, he moves the puck so well, he's going to make the right decision, but also defensively away from the puck. Like, you could argue the best part of his game is just that, like, with that forchick and just how smart he is. He's not the fastest skater, but I think I like the analogy of, like, he's so smart that

he gets that much faster because he makes his decisions faster than anyone else. So he, like, gets out of the gate more quickly. So he's already beating you to your spot before you even started moving there so he can get the leg up on faster skaters. And so I think his two-way play, his neutral zone work, is going to be a magnetism. And it's funny to see that people are like, oh, you know, his work in the SHL because of his bottom six role left a lot to be desired. 10 points in 33 games for a 17 year old puts him right between Willie Nealander and Daniel Cedine for like one of the 20 best 17 year old seasons in that league of all time. So it's pretty good considering the ice time.

I think the sky's the limit for him. I strongly considered having him higher. I know that Chris you have him, you had him a number three on your list, right? Like, so I was considering, mid-season, yeah, yeah. So he's not much, he's not much different now. Yeah. So I definitely considered it. I think this is a great spot for him. And now we're up to number six.

Chris, you're on the clock. The New Jersey Devils with their own pick here. Yeah, I mean, I think the devil is obviously a team that need a lot. And I'm just going to go, you know, best player available for me on that, you know, as opposed to any sort of needs or anything like the devil's I mean, I think at this point, you know, if you were to get Cole Perfetti in this range, you'd be pretty happy. I think that he's a player that has great ham skills. He's not an amazing skater.

You know, I think that the devils have good, you know, some good, some really good skaters. Obviously, Jack Hughes, you know, Nico Hesher, guys that can move up pretty well. But Perfetti, for me, has been interesting to watch this year. I think he's, you know, he played a little bit of center. For me, I think he's a little bit better on the wing. He's a lot better on the wing if he can produce at a higher clip. I like his, you know, his hands are outstanding. He had a great Holinka Gretzky Cup, which put him off on the right foot.

But then I think that he really developed into a go-to guy for Saginaw this year. You know, he got some help with Ryan Suzuki getting moved over there as well. Would have been fun to see kind of those two guys together for a longer period of time than we got to see him. I did get a chance to see those two live against Windsor this year. You know, Perfetti is another one of those guys where, you know, the size, you look at, across the board the size in this draft is not you know there aren't a ton of big guys and so you know i think that that kind of plays into to his hands pretty well and uh you know the hands are and the brain uh for me his vision is outstanding i think he's got a killer release on his

shot um you know he he's he's a great pass shot threat you know i think that's one of the things that all players need to be at this point is to be a guy that's not you know i don't be pass first. Don't be, just be, take the play that's given to you. And I think that that's one of the things that Perfetti can sure, he surely can force the, his, the odd play. But for me, you know, aside from the skating, I think all the other tools are there. The skating is not so, is not a huge downgrade for me. It's just, you know, against guys like Stutzlo, Raymond, those are guys that are, you know, quicker than he is, and can get up and down the ice better than he can. But aside from that, I think Cole Perfetti, uh, exceptional talent.

with the puck on a stick. Yeah, I think that's pretty reasonable. It's that intelligence is like Chris, you mentioned there, is he's probably the smartest player in this group that we've been talking about so far is that I love his ability that, you know, he really put himself on the map as a goal score as a rookie in the OHL and then with that great HALENK tournament where, you know, he scored all the goals in that in the one game, all the goals. All of them.

And then he came back to Saginaw and he became an elite playmaker for them, like one of the best in the OAHL, and I thought that was a real boon to his game and to his draft stock overall. I think he's great on face-offs. I actually see him as a natural centerman. I think the only thing that might hold that back is if the skating doesn't continue to rise up, that that might be a little bit of an issue for him. But, you know, he's so smart and he has that great passing ability. And obviously, then you add that dynamic shot that he has, too.

I'm a big Colpherty fan, too. I think that if he had a quicker gear to him, you know, we'd be talking about him with Rossi and Raymond. And right at very top of us, he's that good. Yeah, I mean, 111 points in 61 games speaks for itself. And I think as an offensive player is such a well-rounded package of, you know, he's got the shot and the scoring ability, but just the intelligence and the hands and everything. I kind of, I had him seventh on my list and it was a pure hedge because I can see the argument

for why he should be higher. I am when you watch him and when you read about that kind of nagging in the back of your head of, is he going to have that explosive gear in his game to, translate and be a legitimately great point getter in the NHL. I'm a bit concerned. We've seen a bunch of prospects in the past, however many years, have those concerns and come into the league and start working with better skating coaches, refine their diet, really kind of put all their resources in that and certainly get better.

So I'm not going to rule him out because I do think his skill set is good enough to make that happen but I do have some slight reservations which is why Adam seven but I see all the arguments you guys are saying and clearly his his work in the OHL speaks for itself Chris you're still on the board here yeah got the Montreal Canadians at eight or sorry you've got the Buffalo Sabres at seven sabers yeah you know and this is the one where where I actually I decided that I wanted to at least think about the team a little bit in terms of because I mean for me like I have Ascaro Escaro very high still among, you know, guys that I like in this range. I don't think that that's the right play for the Sabres, however.

You know, I think that they have some guys in their pipeline that I trust to kind of grow with their game over the next few years, including Ukupeculukinen. So I didn't want to go goaltender, but, you know, and I'm very tempted to go defensemen, very tempted, but I'm not going to do it. I have decided not to. I think, you know, for them, they need to continue to build that forward core. You know,

I think they have Dahlene as a cornerstone defenseman. So I actually am going to go and grab another swede here, which they've had a little bit of trouble with, you know, aside from, you know, like I'm thinking Alexander Nylander in this similar range. But I think Alexander Holtz is the guy that has, you know, the ability to play, you know, they drafted Dylan Cousins last year.

Holtz is a sniper winger. He's a guy that I think could fit in with a Jack Eichel or a Dylan Cousins and could be a dynamic talent for them. I think throughout the year, he ebbed and flowed a little bit. You know, I think that his, the fact that he did get so much given to him early on, I feel like he could have risen to that a little bit better and maintained a level of dominance over the course of the season. But I think that his one, you know, he's got good hand skills, elite release.

I think that one of the things that he really has focused on over the course of the year plus is getting stronger. He protects the puck really well. He has that physical strength. I think we saw that more like the World Juniors, where he's playing against his peers, where he can actually impose his will a little bit more. He's not necessarily going to run anybody over. That's not his game. But I think, you know, for me in this range, you can look at the defense and you can look at the, you can look at the goaltender. But if I'm the Buffalo Sabres and I say, hey, I'm starting.

to put together a pretty nice little core of forwards here, I would want Alexander Holtz to be part of that. I love Alexander Holtz. I think he's a tremendous talent. I think that this year, I really liked to see the effort that he, you know, when he was playing in the Super League, he could basically score at will from the outside. They just couldn't touch him.

He could just let it rip and it was bar down. And that took a little bit of a transition when he moved up to play in the top league, that he couldn't do that as much anymore. And so I really like to see him getting some grease. see goals working it and getting down low. And then as you said, when he plays against his peers, he still has that dynamic shooting element to his game. And I think that that's going to transition up with him.

I was hoping he was going to be there for my next pick. So you rob me up him. Yes. I think this kid's, you know, if we're talking about best peer shooters in the draft, you know, it starts with Alexander Holts. And if there's anyone in this crop that has legitimate, you know, 40 plus goal upside, 50 maybe if things get right, it's Holtz for sure. And so for Buffalo, you know, to have an idea.

look at him and go Eichel down the middle, Dahlene on the back end, and then Holtz working your top flight winger sort of thing, is that those are three nice pieces. And Buffalo needs a little bit of everything. And so I think that's a great pick for them. Yeah, he scored goals at every single level he's played out. He had nine and 35 SHL games this year in terms of historically U-17 seasons there. Patrick Erickson, in 86, 87, Marcus Nauze, 9091, and Peter Forsberg,

19901 are the only three players to score goals at a higher rate than him. I had him at number six on my board, and that was cheating a little bit because I know it goes against my thing of not wanting to draft for need, but I just think the fit of putting his shot next to either Jack Hughes or Nico Hishier as playmakers and puck carriers is really intriguing for me. I'm not sure how long he's going to take, but you, Cam, you answered one of my concerns or one of my questions a little bit here, but everything you read and see about him is clearly one of, if not the best peer shots in this class. and I think at lower levels, it's easy to sort of trick yourself and they're just getting away with that. And so he was doing it. When you start talking about transitioning to the NHL, playing against world class goalies, but also against defenses that kind of push you out and are much more difficult to get your ideal shot off against, do you think the shot selection is going to be there when he's not good enough as a shooter to consistently beat goalies from far out?

because I think you can count on one hand the number of forwards who are actually able to step into the league and do so on a consistent level. And even we've seen Patrick Linnae over the past couple years regress and come back down earth and he's got one of the best shots ever. I think we're probably going to see a similar type of thing that we're watching from Line A is that it's going to, there's going to be adjustment periods. There's going to take a couple of years for him to really be that threat to score, you know, a massive amount of goals. But the thing about Holtz, too, is that he's great in flight too. Like he can get that shot off while at top flight. And his skating is quite good too. He's not an elite skater, but I think he's a very good skater.

And then on the power play too, when he's got a little bit more time and space and can move around and find those soft spots, those quiet areas of the ice, that's when he really becomes super, super dangerous. But he has that in-flight and that at a standstill. Those shots are both there for him where I think line is better from a standstill. When he's teed up, I think he can let it rip on the fly too. But I think holds probably at the same age has a little higher. ability at that in that regard well when you're talking about prospects and skill sets and

maybe personal preference but also sort of projectability to the next level you have two types of goal scorers right like you have uh your your traditional like the holts right now where it's like the shot is so good they like he can just clearly beat a goalie but then you have guys like i think maybe a jack quinn is much more of like a sort of cerebral score where he gets to the right place at the right time he scores in different ways um how how do you kind of compare and contrast those two when you're talking about a guy who's scoring a ton of goals doing so at a lower level. And then when he all of a sudden has to play against world-class goalies and defensemen and everything becomes much more difficult. And the opportunities are few and farther between.

Which one are you kind of leaning towards more as your personal preference? What you're talking about sort of goal score types? Yeah, for me personally, I like the kids that have that more dynamic skill set. So I think Jack Quinn is a more, maybe a more well-rounded player. He's a guy that plays on the PK right now in junior. You could probably see him growing into that role in the NHL as well. I don't think that his shot is as powerful, as quick or as accurate as Holtz. I don't think he gets it off on the fly as well.

So he's going to be the guy that's going to need a little bit more help. He'll need a premier distributor to set him up because he is smart and he can get to those areas. And if he can find a little bit of room, he can let it rip. And it is a good shot for sure. But for me, Holtz, I think can create his own offense. Yeah, I think that's actually. that's what I was thinking. I think that Holtz creates a bit more for himself.

I think Quinn started to show that a bit more this season where I think his hands have really come along and he can make some good one-v-one plays. But yeah, I'm in agreement with Cam on that one. All right, well, Cam, you're on the board here at 8 with the Montreal Canadiens and not to pat myself my own back, but we're through seven picks and we're through the first seven guys on my own personal board.

So it seems like we're doing something right here. So what are you going to do at number eight here with who's left? Yeah, so this is a tough one because, you know, I think Montreal would love like that, that really dialed in number one center that they've been trying to draft now for a couple of years. And it just hasn't, it hasn't necessarily worked out yet. You know, I think Nick Suzuki has the potential for that. Kockenemi has the potential for that.

But maybe they're not quite that true elite guy. But there's not one sitting there on the board. So they could go after a kid like Anton Lundell here. And it would fit similarly to what they, have already picked. I'd love to find them a really elite winger, but they're all gone now too. So I don't think they're going the goaltender here, Ask Graff. So I think the best player available is probably Jamie Drusdale.

And for them on the left side of their blue line, you know, they got Romanov coming over this year. They got Jordan Harris, who's a nice player. I think Struble has a lot of upside as an athlete. But, you know, I think Drusdale is that one defenseman in this group that you can really see becoming a top pairing guy that can play a ton of minutes. The way he transitions the puck with his feet and with the pass, it's pro level. I've been going back and watching a little bit of his tape recently, just for fun because he's so much fun to watch, too, is that he doesn't make that obvious play in junior. He takes his time.

He'll draw in that oncoming four checker. And then he makes the second or third option that guys wouldn't have the stones to do because, you know, they're afraid they're going to cough it up and get stable to the bench. And he makes those plays. And those are the type of plays that you see happen in the NHL on a regular basis. And he's doing it at 17 years old right now. So for the HABS here at number eight, I think they're getting the top defenseman with a bullet

and a kid that isn't going to be too far off playing in the NHL. I would not be surprised. You know, I think they are going to go D this draft. I think that just if this is the range that they end up in, I think it just makes sense for them. I think it'll come down in Drysdale and Jake Sanderson, the two guys that I think are in that mix.

And the thing about Drysdale, it's this is not necessarily, like I love Drysdale too. I think there's a lot of things there. but one of the things that I wonder, just with the way that Montreal drafts, you know, he's a little bit like high risk, high reward kind of guy. And that's kind of where I wonder if a team like Montreal just kind of given their history if they do that or if they go in a different direction.

But I think that in terms of this range, it's a perfect range for him to go in just because, you know, I think that for, I think Cam and I are in agreement, like a lot of these forwards, we just have a higher value, we have a higher valuation on it. It's not that he's, you know, well, often you're going to see a defenseman go earlier than this. But I think he's the most likely of the defenseman to go higher. And I see all those things. I think he had a great world juniors where he showed he could defend a little bit better than I think most people would have given him credit for. But yeah, I think there are still very, there's a lot of learning for him to do yet.

And I think he's got, I think he still has a, you know, a year or two in junior before he's, he's able to make that jump. And so I'll be interested to see kind of where they go. but it makes a lot of sense for me in this range. I don't, I guess it depends on the way you view it. I don't personally view him as a hugely risky prospect, because I just, like, maybe if you review it from the perspective of, oh, it's a bust if he's not a top pairing stud for us. But I think just with his skating, like in today's modern game,

um, his basement of like just being able to move the puck and create with his legs is going to be enough for him to be like at least like a, a sheltered second pairing guy, don't you think? Yeah, and I don't mean to say that he's a high-risk, high-reward pick. I think he's a fair pick here. I think he can play a risky style. And I don't mind that. That doesn't bother me.

I think that he gets, I've seen, I saw one of his worst games of the season where he was a disaster defensively, but still had four points in the game. So it's kind of amazing to me to see his kind of development. And I think that you're exactly right on the skating. The skating is exceptional. His ability to make plays with his edges is awesome. And the space that he creates for himself. I don't think he's as good as Quinn Hughes at that,

but I see some of that in his game where he can make that turn, make that guy miss. I think that that's something that he's added to his game more this year, and he's gotten better at it as the year has gone on. So those are the types. I 100% agree that his feet are a huge reason why he's going to have success. but you know i just i just think they're there's just a maturation process that he needs that you know all young defensemen do in terms of you know especially when it comes to distributing the puck

and uh some of the plays that i saw him forced this year that made me wonder a little bit about the the hockey sense at times but i think that he feels pressure and absorbs pressure well which suggests that he is a pretty smart player and that he's a good read and react player as well but here's the thing that i'd say about that like he was on a pretty crappy area daughters team right oh yeah like they were 26 26 and 11 they didn't really have any other sort notable top talent and i think i have this theory especially with like c hl defensemen where if you're on a team and you don't have forwards who can sort of think and act on the game as dynamically as you can you can either like sometimes force it a little bit too much because you're trying to take on

too big of a burden or your talents get lost in the shuffle because you're making all these brilliant passes, but it's not leading to the finish that you would otherwise, once you make it to the NHL and actually start playing with really good players. So I think with him, I see what you're saying in terms of that, like, a hockey IQ thing in terms of sometimes maybe doing a bit too much. But I do think those concerns are quite alleviated for me just because of the context of who he's playing with. And I think once you surround him with better players, as we saw with team Canada, that all of a sudden it can kind of allow him to maybe a bit, kind of less is more approach with him where he can just use his skating more selectively and all of a sudden his

entire game blossoms. That's how I see him too. And I think when you put him in situations, as you said, at the World Juniors, you know, at the Halinka where he was great to just, I just love his transitional play. The skating is so, so good. I think that there's a lot more to pack on to him physically that he's going to need to stack on 20 pounds sort of thing, 15, 20 pounds. But that's going to happen, right?

He's a younger player for this group. I don't even know if he's, I think he's. I think he just turned 18. But, you know, the shot's going to come. A player that we've already mentioned, Quinn Hughes, he didn't have the shot. And it's slowly coming together for him now. And they're, you know, he's a little bit taller than Quinn, but he's a little bit lighter than him. So I think that we're going to see a, I don't think he's going to have that dynamic of offense coming that Hughes has, you know, the guy who could put up 60, 70 points in the league.

But I think he has a realistic shot at his ceiling being a 50 point top pairing, top power play defenseman. I'm up here at number nine with a Black Hawk's pick. And I'm going to pull the trigger. You guys have been sort of beating around the Bush. You guys have been talking about it. I'm going to take a Slav Ascarov here. And the way that I modeled my board was because I'm typically, you know me. Like I'm against drafting, committing heavy resources into goalies.

I think they're pretty replaceable. I think the volatility of the position and the uncertainty and especially with drafting a goalie this high, like when Spencer Knight went, wherever he did for Florida last year, it's like even with the best guy. you're probably looking at a time frame of four or five years before they're ready to take on a meaningful burden at the NHL level. And if you're a GM, chances are you might not even be around to sort of reap the rewards of that. So I'm not sure about using a top 10 pick on a goalie. At the same time, the way I viewed it was there were about eight guys. And I strongly considered lumping Anton Lundell in here and having nine guys. But I viewed the concerns about his offensive upside enough to bump him down a little bit where I thought,

listen, the upside and the reward of what Ascarov could be warrants him having consideration right here after these top eight. And so I'm just going to go with it here, Ascarov at nine. I think it's weird to me that consensus soured on him so much in the industry after poor performances at the World Juniors and the Five Nations tournament because I remember him coming into the year generally considered to be the best prospect to come into the league since what, like, Kerry Price maybe in 2005. I remember having discussions with various people

of the draft last year, and all anyone could talk about was, oh, man, is Ascarov going to go top three, top five next year? Like, what's the ceiling for him? And last I checked, like, all the stuff that we loved about him with the athleticism, the elasticity, the competitive is the size, that's all still there. We're just basically saying that whatever five to ten games worth against on a bigger stage obviously against better players but didn't live up to it and so we're

bumping him down i view that as flawed logic and so considering how we viewed him before and the fact that all the things we loved are still there in him i just think his upside of being a franchise changer once he comes into the league and matures is high enough that this is the range where we seriously start considering taking a goalie yeah i get i yeah go ahead cam oh yeah i was probably going to echo the same thing you're about to say i think it's i think it's a really nice pick for Chicago at this loan. I think that if a team jumped on Ascroft at 3, 5, 7, it doesn't

make a ton of sense for those teams. And it makes a lot of sense for Chicago. They have some nice assets coming up in other positions. They don't have a long-term plan for goaltender. And Askeroff is, he's so good. He's got the size. He's got the pedigree. He's got that elasticity.

I don't consider myself a goalie whisper by any means. But you know, you can see what's right in front of you. And he's a kid that, you know, as people knocked him for being a 17-year-old starter in the World Junior Championships, you know, I did the, I crunched the numbers on it a little while ago.

There's like four 17-year-old goalies who started for contending teams at the World Juniors in the last like 30 years. Like it just doesn't happen. And then same with you can, you know, people are like, oh, he had a 9-20 in the VHL. You know, the average save percentage in that league was 9-20. Yeah, there's 17-year-olds don't play in that league.

They're all in the NHL. We just don't see it happening. So, no, I think that that's a really nice pick for them and someone that you know unless you're card or heart you are looking at three four five years away but askeroff is a guy that you know in in the right situation he could be on that low end you know maybe maybe we're three years out from him pushing for an nchel job maybe he's not the number one but he's he's pushing for it and then who knows what happens you know and going back to november before the world juniors and everything i mean there were people that were saying

if you if you look at it right now and this was really when the the lafrenier byfield debate was hotter than it is, you know, than what we had. There were people like, oh, yeah, but then there's also Escarov. Like in the conversation for number one. And while I think that would be a huge risk and I never had him that high, you know, he's still a guy that I see as a top 10 goalie prospect. I think you look at kind of Andre Vasselowski had some similar opportunities to Ascarov and I always want to ask him.

in these you know in those big tournaments and you know I look back at his that that Russian team that won the Ivan Holinka the Halinka Gretsky Cup they don't win it without him that wasn't a great team

I don't think I mean I they obviously didn't do as well at the five nations either but I think that that's you look at him at his best you know he did that he essentially willed Russia to a silver medal at the

at the World Under 18s last year as an underager as well. Every stage that he's been on, he has, you know, for the most part, excelled except for a few minutes here and there on these other ones. And to me, you know, the best goalie in the draft since Vasselowski, you know, I'm a huge Spencer Knight fan, but I view Ascarov as a better long-term goaltender than even Knight. Yeah, well, Ascarov, he outduled Knight as an underage, not that only right. Yeah, my final. Yeah, that's right. That was a hell of a game, too. Yeah, he stopped five.

Here are the guys that he stopped in the shootout just before we move on. Jack Hughes, Cole Cawfield, Matt Boldy, Alex Turcott, and Trevor Zegris. I've heard of those guys. I think all those guys went top 15 if they're top. Yeah, so kind of good. Yeah. Well, and I think I wonder, you know, we've talked so much over the past couple years about how obviously the league changed in terms of younger players are making a bigger, bigger impact.

It started with forwards. It came to the fencemen recently, obviously, with McCar and Hughes now. And I think we're going to see that happen with goalies eventually. I just want to say, like, this year, these are the full list of goalies, U23, that started over 10 games. Blackwood, Hart, and Sampsonoff. That's it. And I think if you're taking a goalie this high, I know we've seen in the past

teams, even like the caps, obviously they had Holpies so they could be more kind of progressive and slow with Samsonov, the lightning with Vasilevsky, but I think that's going to start the change over the next couple years, and I'm really curious to see if Ascarov does go into top 10 how quickly he gets to the league and how much

of an immediate impact he can have, because the physical tools are obviously all there. So number 10 now, the New Jersey Devils, with their second pick, I'm going to take Anton Landel here, and I strongly, as I alluded to earlier, considered having him in that top tier of skaters before I got into the goalies.

But I think at 10, he's a really sort of safe pick. And that's sort of the key word with this guy. I do feel for him because we talked at the start of the show about how, you know, with these unique circumstances, various key tournaments were obviously canceled. And so certain players were robbed of the opportunity to shine and improve their stock at high leverage big platform games with him he misses the world juniors with injury and then now his league of playoffs get canceled and so i think he would have had a chance certainly if he if he shine there to potentially alleviate some of the concerns about his offensive upside but i don't know

like is it where do you guys stand on him because it seems like he's certainly going to be a good nchl center but when you're talking about top 10 picks um acknowledging the boomer bus potential and how sometimes we tend to inflate the security of the impact these guys make and how sure we are, how good they're going to be as prospects. You'd like to think that this could be a legitimate game changer if you're spending a top 10 pick on a guy like Lundell. That's not the type of guy you're getting there, as you alluded to, but I think he is a pro through and through it.

I watched him now for the last couple years. I was at the World Juniors last year. Unfortunately, he wasn't there this year due to injury. But, you know, as an underage player, he just makes all his subtle, plays are, you know, I don't want to say Sedeen-like just because when you, but when you watch the Sadiens up close and personal, those little soft touch

plays, those little tiny dishes, little saucers over sticks. It's just everything, he touches the puck, you know, can't give him a bad pass. He just sucks it right in. So he makes all those things that are going to transition so quickly, so nicely. He has the size. He has the position. I think that right around that 9-10 spot is perfect for him because

he doesn't have that elite offensive upside. Now, a lot of people really, I think, squash what he does have. And I think that, you know, he put up a very nice season in the Liga. You know, he had a great, he's a little bit older for this crop, but I think he had a great U-18 season year before that. And he showcased that he does have offense, enough to be a legitimate second line center that can be a match-up guy that can still contribute, depending on the team he's on. Maybe he's on the first power play, maybe he's on the second. But, you know, he's a guy that you can really, you know,

almost chisel into stone that he's going to be a really nice 50-plus point player. Yeah, he, nothing that he does. jumps off the page. It doesn't jump off video. Even when you see him live, but it's just, he's always making good decisions. He's playing tough matchups. I mean, you look back to that, they win gold, and he was an underager on the U-20 team.

He was getting tough matchups against that U.S. team in the gold medal game. I think he was one of the top minutes among forwards in that gold medal game, where that finish team doesn't win that gold medal without a guy like him that can play those kinds of minutes and give you a really

good feel for things. I mean, you know, you look, the finish league is obviously one of the leagues that tracks Corsi as well as a league. And he was up over 61%. Very similar numbers to Yossi Puli Arvi, who was, you know, a blast from the past. But I'm talking about Yossi Pooley-R-V this year, not Yassie Poo-Yarvi back then. And that's an interesting thing. Like, you know, I mean, he obviously, I think he was probably sheltered a bit more than we, you know, I didn't track enough games to see exactly how.

that usage panned out. But I mean, that's obviously a number that's, that's nothing to sneeze at in terms of his ability to control the puck. And, and, and I think, yeah, I just think he's a good safe guy. You know, we look at guys, like, you think about Brady Kachuk a couple years ago, and I'm not trying to compare the two players. I just think he was a guy that had underwhelming numbers, doesn't exactly have the skill that pops off, but he is so smart. I think, I think Kach has higher in hockey sense than Lundell, but he has, Lundell has excellent hockey sense. And, you in such great two-way value that that's where, you know, the lack of necessarily jaw-dropping skills doesn't really bother me that much.

And he becomes a really intriguing fit for teams in this range that have been bad for a couple years and I've already had the good fortune of drafting, like top skilled players, especially centers. So like I had in New Jersey taking him here at number 10. He's really interesting. His profiling is a guy who can like eat up a lot of those dirty, tough minutes. and allow Jack Hughes or Nikolishir or whatever to produce more offensively and to do less of the dirty work as opposed to talking about taking them in that 5, 6, 7 range. If you're a team that doesn't have a top center already and being like, okay, we're going to build our entire team around Anton Lundell.

That seems like that could be an issue, whereas more of a complimentary player that slides in and makes everyone around him better, all of a sudden I feel like you're really cooking there. Yeah, I think I got spot on. All right, Cam, so you're up here. we're out of the top 10. Minnesota is on the clock and you're picking that 11. Okay. So I'm trying to get into the mindset of the Minnesota Wild here.

And if it's me personally, I'm probably taking a big swing on some high-end talent, someone who can maybe be dynamic and join, you know, get in there with Kappersoff and get in there with Yala and really start to make things happen for them offensively. But it's the Minnesota Wild, so they're not going to do that. So this is a team that has a team that. has long been building from the back end and I think that they have a player sitting there and Jake Sanderson that will slide in nicely

for him and I get to steal Chris's pick which makes you good. So the Wilde will take Sanderson who's a player that is extremely good defensively and he's another one that can really shake pressure well and I think that that has elevated throughout the season. So if you watch

some film from him from last year or early on in this season that he was good but you saw him more as like, oh, you know, like this good. He could be a legitimate second pairing guy if things break, right, sort of thing. And then after that All-American game and pushing on through the back half of the season, I started to see him exude some more confidence. He would shake and bake a little bit.

He would draw that four checker in and around the net. And then all of a sudden he'd curl back and he'd have the space and he'd make a nice outlet off the wall sort of thing. And so you start to see a little more creativity. But defensively, great stick, great gap control. He has the mind for when to when to really lean into a guy and when to stay back. I think he projects super safely as a second pairing guy that can eat up a ton of minutes. I think the offense, we're going to need to see that grow a little bit if we want to see him be more than a 30 point second power play type of guy. But there is the potential for that, especially because we're seeing that trajectory just rock it upward.

So I think for the wild, they love their deed there. They develop them well. I think he's a good pick for them. Yeah, I obviously, and you made that because I think it is a good pick. And I think it's a good pick specifically for that organization because it's something that they have a bit of a hole in in their in their current prospect system. They do have those higher end offensive guys that are coming in, Caprazav, boldy. You know, I think we saw a great Adam Beckman had a breakout season, the WHL this year. So they have some talented forward.

They don't have a ton on the back end. And I think what Sanderson brings is, I think as North-South speed is outstanding, I think his ability to close gaps is incredible. I think it's the best in this draft by a large margin. The physical nature of his game, he steps into guys and he separates them from the puck. He's not looking at head hunt. He's not looking to get guys off their feet necessarily. He wants the puck, and he makes those plays really easily. I know of teams that have him higher than Drysdale.

I personally don't, but I know that there are teams that are out there, and I think there are teams that could pick him earlier than this in the draft. And I think part of it is because he has the NHL, pedigree for sure. That's obviously something that's always attracted to teams and it's fair because his dad was an absolute burner and he can skate like the wind too. And, you know, I think that there are another thing, another thing about Sanderson. We talked about, you know, building throughout his career and you picked on it there, Cam, where he had that great, you know, he had the nice All-American Prospects game. The Five Nations was, I feel like his

coming out party where everybody was like, there it is. There's what we wanted to. there's what we wanted to see. I think his number profile, like in terms of stats, it's not thrilling, but that is a low-scoring U-18 team against a lot of other, you know, historically at the National Team Development Program. So you have to take that into account as well. Not a lot of weapons up front, not a lot of guys for him to get the puck to, you know, good team, but I think that his numbers would have looked better on a team.

Like, you know, I think back to Jacob Trubis season, and there were a lot of questions about his offensive upside, and they didn't necessarily have an incredibly, gifted offensive team in front of him. So I think that Sanderson is a guy that I rate very highly. It's not just because he's an American, which everybody's going to say. Love all the American boys, which I do. But I think that Jake Sanderson has the potential to fit a need.

And they can let him go to North Dakota, where he is going to get great development from Brad Barry, who has a track record. He's coached in the NHL. he's got a track record of developing defensemen. I think it's a great fit for the organization. And it's also, I think, a great fit for Jake Sanderson. I think that's a place where he could find a home relatively, you know, in the next few years. I mean, the thing that I'm really intrigued and tantalized by and obviously I'm not alone,

considering how much he shot up the ranks as the years gone along is, is how functionally he uses that skating ability to defend, like, as you're talking about the gap up, to take the puck off of people to actually do something. that is getting increasingly more important in today's NHL game because of how talented and how fast skaters are and how much they're attacking off the rush and how, what are my constant sort of things that I keep coming back to is it feels like the NHL as this offensive boon is happening, it's showing that there aren't nearly enough good skating defensemen to actually defend and keep up with the forwards. And so Sanders would certainly give a team

the luxury of doing that. I guess if you're talking about taking them even potentially higher than this though. I am slightly concerned about those questions about the puck skills and the offensive IQ and how much that is going to come around. But the fact that he has shown to be kind of this lay bloomer who has constantly been getting him better, better and better, I guess would sort of comfort you a little bit there. Like how many, what's a realistic comp do you think of like a guy with his build and his skating that is so good like gaping up and being defensively responsible like that without being able to sort of dominate on the other end though like i i feel like there aren't that many guys in today's game like that there are and and i i tried to make a comp up

for him for one of the guides that i was doing and i was struggling with it but you know what i actually landed on truba which is interesting chrisa you got him up too is that you know i think they're not it's not perfect but i think that that's a reasonable sort of comparison for the two i think truba plays a a little a little heavier game but i think sanderson can grow into that too absolutely yeah Trubba's meaner for sure. But I think, you know, one of the ones, this wasn't mine, but I heard this before. And I felt like it was, I felt like it was fair with a little bit, potentially maybe a little less offensive upside. But Ryan McDonough was one that came up.

Maybe it's the US-US thing again. But I think physically the way that they close, the way that they defend, I feel is very similar. They're both really good skaters. You know, physical profile is close. and yeah but I think that he's he's the kind of guy that his offensive game will continue to grow. I think he's going to be on an amazing college team next season, assuming we have a college season at North Dakota. And there are going to be a lot of weapons for him to get the puck to. And I'll be very interested to see the kind of minutes that he gets.

He'll be over there with like Jacob Bernard Docker, who's a first round pick of the Sends. You know, they need guys. They've lost a couple guys off their blue lines. So they need a guy like Sanderson there. So I think he's going to get some big minutes and he's going to play. I think that offensive game will continue to grow. All right. Well, Chris, you're back on the clock here, number 12 for the Winnipeg Jets.

Yeah, this is a tough one because, you know, the Jets have, I think in this range, you're starting to really get a lot of wide-ranging opinions and guys that, you know, kind of go all over the board. So I'm just going to kind of stick with the guy that I feel is the best available at this point. That's Jack Quinn. You know, they have enough goal scores there, it seems like. but you can never have too many goals. And I think one of the things, it took me a long time to come around on Quinn.

You know, I had to do a lot of work on just kind of figuring out, you know, what was it, what was it that I liked about him? And the more that I watched him, I think the more that I saw, you know, he does benefit, he would benefit from a playmaker on the other side of him. I think that he's a kind of guy that needs to have a playmaker with him. But good shot, you know, I think he gets to the scoring area very well. I think that he started to show, you know, better, quicker hand skills where he can make plays. I like the way that he gets his shot off in traffic.

You know, I think Cam alluded to earlier, he doesn't necessarily score off the rush as easily as some of these guys, but he's got a good, shoots off the pass pretty well. So, you know, obviously, you know, high score and one of the top scores in the CHL this year, you know, I think the goals are going to continue to come for him. You know, he is an older player in the draft for sure. that you have to take into account. But I think there are probably about four or five guys that I have here that I could easily see going in this slot.

But for me at this point, I just, I have Quinn a little bit higher than some of those guys. And I think that the Jets don't shy away from guys that can score goals. What do you think about that, Cam? Yeah, no, I think that's just fine. I looked at him at the pick before, too, to inject some offense into the wild there. So I think that that's right. I think that some boards that have him pushing into the top 10, I think, is a little too much. And, you know, it is, it's quite uncommon for us to see a draft eligible drop 50 goals in the OHL.

You know, there's been a half dozen or so in the last 20 years. But he's older for this crop. He also had the, you know, the luxury of playing secondary matchups because everybody and their dog was focusing on Marco Rossi. And they only played together at even strength and a little bit early in the season. So I think that had helped him a little bit. But at the same time, when you're playing away from Marco Rossi, you're leaving some points off. the board off your score sheet too because you would have got fed some more. So I think that that's fine.

I think that because of his well-rounded game too, he's not one of these guys where, you know, you look at Arthur Calliyev where it's like if he's not scoring goals, he's not playing on your team sort of thing. And Jack Quinn can score goals, but he can also, he's intelligent, he can play defense, he can kill penalties as we mentioned earlier. So yeah, no, I think that that's a pretty good spot for them. And do you guys agree that his skating definitely got better as the year went along? because I feel like that was like a massive concern coming in.

And the more I've been reading now, people are, it's still obviously not like a massive strength. But I think, you know, you talk about how if he's not scoring, he's not doing much else. I think the fact that his skating hasn't proved at least gives you a bit of confidence that he's going to be able to add value in different areas of the game beyond just putting the puck in the net. Yeah, I think that's fair.

I think, you know, certainly it was a concern for me. I think that's one of the reasons it took me a little bit longer to come around on him. I didn't necessarily see it as a, I, thought it might hold them back a little bit. And I think that the other thing, too, that has been mentioned to me a bit about the numbers that we've seen coming out of players, you know, is specifically in the Eastern Conference of the OHL is that it is a fair amount weaker, you know, than the Western Conference, and you're playing worse teams more regularly.

So I think that that has caused some people to hedge on guys like Rossi and Quinn and maybe some people underselling what Nick Robertson did in Peterborough this year. But really what I've found is that, you know, the skating is fine. I think that he, you know, he has the physical frame to handle an aggressive game. I think that he protects the puck well. So, you know, and then also, as I mentioned, you know, the ability to find those areas, to pop into areas, to anticipate plays, to get, you know, is like, you know, pre-shot movement is pretty good. And so I think that that kind of helps you when you're not necessarily a burner like some of the other guys here. but I like what I've seen from Jack Quinn

and I definitely think there has been growth in his game over the course of the season. Yeah, he screams Jeff Skinner to me, you know, a streaky goal score that, you know, can play on a top line and can do well there and can go cold and can end up on your third line for a while, but, you know, he can play all around, which will help him to.

Skinner is really dynamic, though. Do you think Quinn has that element in his game at the NHL level? I think more along the lines of his production, the type of the type of player that you're going to be getting versus that elite skating, the lead hands. But, you know, the shot is similar. But then you're looking at just a streaky style of goal score, I think. I mean, talk about timing, though.

He was like four days away from being in last year's draft. God knows where you would have gone an hour talking about him, potentially cracking the top 12 years. So pretty good. Chris, you're back on the clock here again with the Rangers at 13. Yeah, this is another tough one. I mean, like, there's a lot of different ways that this could go. You know, obviously the Rangers have one of the D-Rangers.

deeper prospect systems and a lot of upside. And I think that, you know, there, after, after you go Driesdale and Sanderson, I feel like there's a pretty significant drop off to the next defenseman. So I don't think that's necessarily a way that I would go. One of the guys that I, to me, this comes down, comes down to two guys that I have. Actually, well, I should say three. But the guy that I'm going to go with is just, for me, best player available is Conor Zarari. and I know that there are people that he's a bit of a polarizing guy,

but I think that he's another guy that I, you know, really popped on my radar after the under 18 worlds last year where I thought he was excellent for Team Canada, you know, good vision, good physical profile in terms of just his ability to protect the puck and his aggressiveness. I think there's a hockey sense, is a high-end, vision, high-end, not necessarily a super dynamic guy at all times, but he just makes a lot of good smart plays.

I think it's in this range, you know, you look at guys, I think you got Seth Jarvis, Rodion Amarov, Dawson Mercer. They're all guys that I can easily see going here. But for me right now, as I've been making my board,

I've had ZAR, I keep coming back to Zari and, or Zari or, you know, I always feel bad about pronouncing names because these guys haven't been on an HL broadcast for like 50,000 times. But, you know, I really like what Zari brings.

to the table and uh you know he he played on a a team last year that wasn't great and you know he he let his team this year by i think 30 points or 40 points like somebody you know so he was he was the engine that drove the bus for camloops this year and uh he's he's one of those unique players that i think teams are going to have all over the map from you know i don't even know if everybody's going to have him as a first round grade who knows but uh but i like them i had him at a 15 on my list and And, yeah, 38 goals and 86 points at 57 games in WHL. I thought he might have pound for pound the best highlight reel of any draft eligible player in this class.

Like, his highlight reel is amazing. And the one thing I took away from it was that he has a lot of swag. Like his celebrations after he scores. And that doesn't mean anything. I'm just adding that as a personal anecdote that I enjoyed it. And I do like, I do like he's got a bit of spunk to him. Like, I think, and you read that his skating could be better, but he can maybe make up for it because he competes so hard.

And I think you do see some of that where like he plays with so much passion that the skill is obviously there in the highlight reel on the hands and how quickly he can move the puck. But the fact that he's got like that drive as well, I think would help me bump him higher up the board. So it's an interesting pick where you took him. I'd have him a bit lower. But I think the industry consensus is maybe a bit too low on him based on what I've seen.

Yeah, I think he's a smart player. I do like that little bit of gusto that he has. too he's a lot of fun playing there in the loops um a player that i was maybe a little bit higher on early in the season and some other guys have overtaken him for me but still right in that range and i and we've said this a few times you know once you're getting into this 1112 all the way to you know 20 something it is a mismash it could go anyway there so i think zari is a fine pick at that spot yeah it really falls off after like nine or 10 right like these are these are interesting prospects that have upside but certainly like you can feel the security definitely kind of going out the window

little bit. Yeah, I think that's true a lot of drafts. I mean, I think we talked a lot about this draft being super deep and it really, that tends to be a commentary on maybe the first couple of picks. You know, because it really in the end, I think that there's a most drafts kind of are pretty similar. There are obviously years where it's different, like the McDavid draft year and things like that. And I think even last year, you know, there were a lot of, a lot more guys that I saw as like first round grade players that went in the second round. So this is kind of an interesting class in that regard. And that's why I think, you know, we mentioned that lack of predictability, you know,

there's really not much consensus. I mean, even the guys that we've had, you know, we agree on a lot of these guys in these, in our, in our first 13 or first 12 at least picks where we all have them similarly graded. But I know for sure that there are a lot of teams that would not agree on on our, on kind of where we are on those guys. And I've always fascinated to see the difference between the public opinion and the teams. and I think that this year it's going to be maybe as wide a golf as we've seen based on the conversations that I've had. And I think that, you know, it'll be interesting to see.

But yeah, I totally agree. There's a lot, you know, like I mentioned a couple different names there. And guys, I'd have no problem going at 13. So it's crazy. There's an NHL executive listening right now and he's like, when are these guys going to talk about Brayden Schneider? I know. That's true. He's a little further down for me.

Yeah, I feel like he's not going to come up here. but Cam, you're on the clock number 14. So I don't know, we could go Calgary Flames here because by point percentage they're the 14th team where you could go by Florida Panthers if we did the playoff system because they'd be on the outside. So it doesn't really matter.

Just who's the next guy in your board and who do you think should go here? Yeah, Chris mentioned a few guys and I'm sitting here struggling looking at it as if it were the flames. It might change me a little bit if it was the Panthers. But, you know, Rodion Amaroff, Dawson Mercer and Seth Jarvis.

Those are the three guys that I'm really, I think a guy like Noel Gunler could sneak in there as a high, high upside kid who another kid who's got a whole bunch of swagger and if you want to bet on big upside. But for me, a player that I've really, I've fallen in love with this season is Roddy on Amaroff. I think he is a really sound two-way winger that's going to, that's going to transition nicely full-time to the KHL next year and kind of work his way up similar to a silly pod

Colson where, you know, the offensive skill set doesn't jump off the page all the time. But that's because he's always in the right position. He's he's the third forward in. if that's what he needs to be and he's coming back, falling down, falling back into a defensive zone, or he's quicken on the forecheck and he's pressuring, he's supporting his guy as the second forward in. I think the offensive skills are higher than what they have shown necessarily,

and just a sturdy player that's got a really solid floor. What do you think about that, Chris? I love Amarov. I do. And he's a guy that really popped last year at the under 18th as well and was just probably the most consistently threatening forward for a Russian team that had the Sili Pad Colson and a host of others. And, you know, I think I'm always going to like guys that have that down low skill where they

are, they can play down low, but it's not necessarily that it's the board battles. It's their ability to switch and turn and, you know, change directions, make things difficult on defenders, make them, you know, force them to try to find a way to pin them against the boards and they don't have that ability. And I think he creates space for himself well. I think his hands are exceptional. I think he's one of the more skilled guys in this group. And yeah, I mean, he's right in that mix for me as well, Cam.

And, you know, I mentioned that Jarvis Amarov Mercer mismash there. Those are the guys that I, you know, kind of have in that range. I have zero problem with Amarov going at 14 just because I think he could even go earlier. You never know. And he's Russian. So he could go much later. But, you know, it's kind of like one of those things. But I think that he has, he has, you know, jam on top of the skill.

He's not afraid to go to those tough areas. And I like, every time I've watched them, I've liked them. And I was, you know, at least a little bit surprised that we did not see him at the, at the World Juniors this year. So what a lot of course seeing that. Yeah, it's rare to get those underage kids for the Russians. They don't, they don't bring him too often. But him being in 01, I thought he had a good chance to kind of come in as a 12-1. up there as opposed to him you know like that was one of the ones where it's like eh but that's bragging

that's bragging for you yeah i hope you're listening gallery he probably is he probably is um all right at the 15th pick um so this could be either the Columbus boojackers but i'm going to go with the new jersey devils with a Canucks pick because i think it's more interesting to talk about them and and what they would do with the third selection here and i'm going to go with my 11th ranked prospect on my board which you guys haven't touched well you two touched on them, but you haven't picked them yet. And that's Seth Jarvis. Yeah. 42 goals, 98 points and 58 games. Only Rossi Lafranier and Perfetti had more in the CHL started the year in the bottom six, ended the year with 65 points in his last 31 games.

I think he probably has the biggest divide between kind of more quote unquote traditional scouting and I guess this younger next generation of analytics. outing who are looking at the numbers in production. I don't know. Is that fair to say? I feel like because he kind of came out of nowhere, because he's a bit undersized and not a blazing skater, if you're not looking at the production and you're not valuing that very highly,

I can see why you'd bump him down because of those kind of mitigating factors. But I think just purely based on sort of skill in production, what we've seen already, if you're getting into this range, I think he provides quite a bit of upside as, legitimate maybe not a top flight score but definitely middle six slash second line guy no for sure i've spent a great deal of time watching him i did a deep dive for him uh for elite prospects and i i think he's a really good skater like he's not a yeah he's not maybe truly elite but he has uh like a really clean stride that generates a lot of power a lot of quickness um and another one of those guys

that scores his goals at a high rate because he gets in there is almost like a you know power forward or a center getting layups is it's almost like a you know power forward or a center getting layups is going to click at a higher rate than shooting threes because he gets down and dirty. And, you know, he's not the biggest player. So that is going to be a bit more of a challenge when he moves up. But, you know, he has that will. He has good hands. He can draw players and distribute a big, big Seth Jarvis fan.

But it's really interesting because, like, I was just talking to a scout last night. And they've got him outside the top round. And so that, you know, I just, for me personally, I think that he should be a guy that should definitely be in the top 20. You know, it could go in any order after 10 sort of thing. but the way he came on in the second half of the season, when he was given the opportunity to do so, it can't ignore it.

And it wasn't, they weren't cheap points. They were doing it. And he was creating offense for himself, for his teammates. And he's got the speed. He's got the drive. I think he's a real player.

Yep. I can't disagree. I mean, I think, but he is. Like, I think at mid-season, I had him outside of my first.

And he's moved up considerably since. And I think he's moved up a lot of different places. and I'm not surprised to hear that there are teams that don't have them much higher. I mean, you think about, you know, going back to doing all the video work. And I think sometimes he's a guy that can be a guy that, you know, it can go either way on video. I mean, you never know. It's just kind of one of those things. I think that, you know, there's not necessarily a huge defensive value there.

I think that's certainly something that can be said. But one thing that Cam brought up is his ability to drive the net. And, I mean, how many outside moves? moves like if you look at his highlight reel it's just like outside move cut to that you know like he he beats defenseman really well with his feet and um that's harder to do at the NHL level no question um it's harder to get to the middle of the ice but i was always impressed with his ability to drive the middle middle of the ice and at his size and the lack of fear and so i i think that he's a guy that absolutely could fit into this mix and very well could go outside of the top 25 you never know i i still think he's a first rounder i think in this draft there's it's it he's worth taking a chance on earlier i have him you know middle first round for myself so um yeah so i think it's it's totally reasonable all right well let's let's put a ball on this then we're we're done the 15 lottery picks let's do a bit of a quick rapid fire thing to end the show is there a a name we haven't mentioned yet that is a personal favorite of you guys

chris i'll let you go first uh personal favorite um i don't have a ton like there are I usually get like, you know, draft your crushes. I know, Cam, you know, you're familiar with that. Oh, yeah. I mean, I have plenty of those. And I feel like the weird thing about this year is I just don't have as many. You know, like I think Amarov is one of them, you know, like that guys like that who we mentioned. I do think that, you know, we didn't talk about Dossett Mercer very much, but I think he's a really good two-way guy.

Like, you know, I think there's, he's got some offensive skill. I think that he got put into a great role with, with Team Canada. And, you know, he showed well. but yeah but i mean i feel like this year there are a lot of very similar defensemen uh you know bray i do like braden schneider a lot he's my next defenseman on my board but it's still it's a little bit further down for me um you know so the guys like that um but yeah i mean it's it's hard for me like there's certainly not no guys that i saw that that we picked today that i thought didn't deserve it and there are no guys that were outside of it that i thought absolutely deserved to be in

there so that's kind of the weird thing about this draft and um there's going to be a lot of wide-ranging opinions. And so, but yeah, you know, I find this class very difficult to rank. And maybe it's because of the lack of not having the full season and not getting the last couple big events that I was expecting to be at and going off of video. But, man, it's been hard for me to find a whole lot of guys. You know, it's a down year for Americans.

It's a down year for pretty much everybody except for the CHL. You know, like there aren't a ton of outside of the top two Swedes, not a lot of great lock talent. So yeah, so it's a, it's a strange draft for me on so many levels, not, you know, pandemic aside. So I think that's another thing that I am as fascinated as anybody else to see how this is going to play out. Yeah, I think Chris has bought on there too.

And there's a few guys that we haven't mentioned that I do. I have my draft crushes, my adopted sons that I'll often take under my wing. So one that really jumps out is Emil Andre. that doesn't get talked about a lot, Andrea, I should say, and he's just this creative, shifty defenseman that, you know, has a lot of Quinn Hughes to his skating and his ability. He also has a lot to learn defensively. So it's not a big surprise that he hasn't come up in the top 15 here.

He's a kid that I have in, you know, hanging around that 20 mark for me. Just because once we get into that zone, it's the upside is it could be a lot of fun, but there's a lot of risk to him. Another player that I like that we didn't talk about is Maverick Bork, who I think is a really, really type of player. that sees the game a step ahead of everybody else. So he doesn't have dynamic skills, but he's so, so smart and he's really good across the board.

I really like him a lot. And then I thought I had one more two. Oh, Brennan Brisson, coming out of the USHL, playing for the Chicago Steel that was just unbelievable this year, just a gross team, so good. That one timer that he has on the power play is, it's going to be a threat at the NHL level.

And I know there's some scouts out there that see him as a potential number one center. So, you know, he might go number 20, he might go number 10 like he's he's he's one of those guys that's going to have a wide range on different boards i was teeing you up for a zion ibeck yeah my boy zion too you know i like the little guys too i i have him there he's you know he's a kid that i love and i've i've had him in my first round all year i've had him as high as i think like 14 i think the the unfortunate thing at five foot eight is that you know he's speedy he's competitive he's got the he's got the great hands um he's he's

he can terrorize on the forecheck at the j20 level but i I'm going to need to see him do that a little bit more in the men's league before you can really project him up that way. But I love Zion Neibach, obviously. So I have a guy, and I strongly considered having him my top 15. That's how much I love him. And I know it would have been a reach, and I know you guys probably don't have them that high. But Jeremy Porier, I honestly spent the most time in my preparation of this trying to figure out how I like the defenseman after Drys Day. and I eventually settled on Sanderson as my number two.

But I think when you reach a point of this draft, like when you start talking about the Braden Schneiders and the Caden Gullies and stuff, it's like, all right, like, yeah, if this guy hits his ceiling, he's going to be a low event, kind of nothing's happening, second pairing defenseman, that's fine, whatever. I think you reach a point where it's like, man, if Porier, like, if you can figure out how to teach him how not to be an absolute lunatic at all times, his skill set is so tantalizing for me that I don't know maybe it's easier for me as

someone who's not making these decisions and isn't accountable for it from a team perspective but just as purely looking at the raw tools like I think there's a case to be made that he's the second most talented guy here in this class and almost defenseman no he go ahead yeah no it's some of the best hands in the whole group like he's and and has you know somebody's getting a scoring opportunity when he's on the ice you just don't know which team it's going to be. Yeah. When we talk about high risk, high reward players, like that's, I'd say that that he's definitely

in that max. And I think in this class, he's a first rounder. He's a lock for a first rounder for me. But I think there are teams that are going to have him on their do not draft list. And that is, or they won't list him on their board. I shouldn't say the do not draft. But they just won't have him on their board. He's not in their plans.

And that's, that's, you know, the way it kind of goes. And we've seen that happen with plenty. the other guys in the past, you know, St. John was bad, you know, and the bad team, it's hard to see exactly how, you know, how does he do in a different setting? You know, I kind of wonder, but he, yeah, you're right, the hands. I mean, and all the guys at Cammensch, too, I think there are guys like, guys like Andre and and Nyback could go, they could go in the first round. They could go in the late second, you know, they could go in the third.

You never know. I mean, like, we saw guys like Nick Robertson drop into the, you know, the mid-second. or late second round last year that I you know guys that we had for a lot of us had first round grades for so I mean it's just it's just kind of the way that it's going to go but I I mean yeah what I think this is a year go ahead take a swing you know like we talked about very earlier at the top take a swing why not I mean only everybody's paying attention to the draft this year so you know they're going to actually know who these guys are but but yeah it's going to be interesting to see where

it goes I don't know I just think like maybe I'm being a bit naive but how many defense can legitimately move the needle and create. Like when you start thinking about it that way, I'm like, I would take a risk on this guy and if he needs to play in the most sheltered role ever, he's still going to be able to provide some sort of positive value for me, whereas a lot of these guys are like, you know, scouting, they're just a guy. Like, they're just literally a warm body. It's like, oh, he could be in an NHL lineup.

It's like, well, I mean, literally anyone could be in an NHL lineup, but what is he going to bring to the table? So the one name we haven't brought up at all, Hendricks Lapierre, where, at what point do you feel, and see, I guess last year what we had Peyton Krebs with his Achilles we've had like injuries in the past where it's like oh you're not sure what you're getting

you need to do all your medicals. This year obviously it becomes so much more difficult because you're not sure like what you're getting there and obviously with a head injury particularly the timeline is very nebulous now everything I read is that he was cleared to play and if there was hockey he'd be able to play right now

but whenever you're talking about three concussions in a 10 month span for a teenager that's obviously quite concerning, but there's certain people that I know in the industry that think that if he were healthy, he'd be one of the top prospects. So what point of this draft are you become comfortable with the risk being that he might like legitimately never play for you as opposed to a reward where if it really is past him, all of a sudden he's a top 10 to 15 talent? I think the interesting thing too is that recently it came out that he maybe didn't have three

concussions in 10 months, that it was a neck injury and that he was just, just re-injuring that neck injury, similar to what, you know, Sidney Crosby had all those years ago that they couldn't, they couldn't figure out why he wasn't recovering from it properly. It's because something was out of line. I had a terrible concussion myself, and part of that was going to Cairo and getting everything really lined up. That was a big step for me.

So if he was healthy, if he was cleared, he would have had an opportunity to play it in the back half there. I think we would have, we would have, we'd be looking at him a little differently, but at the same time, you know, it's, he struggled out of the gate when he was healthy, which is a knock on him. a little bit. He had obviously the terrific Halinka, which, which, you know, threw him up on buttons list at number three

and almost has kept him there all season. But I think I think you're right. I think right at the tail end of that first round is when we're going to see a team be like, you know what? If he hits and he breaks, we might have ourselves a first line player here. So, you know, the percentage that you're going to get an NHeller out of that 25 to 35 range

is pretty low anyways. So why not swing big? And so for me, you know, I've had him, Hendricks, right around that level between 25 and 30 for most of the season. But I think his skill set, I wish he was quicker and I wish he wasn't afraid to play in the middle of the ice a little bit more because he's not the biggest guy. He's not the fastest guy.

He's a premier distributor. But at some point, you're going to need to get into the middle of the ice and kind of assert yourself a little bit. So hopefully he's healthy and we can see that next year and you can see him kind of take a jump developmentally. And whoever pulls him at that point in the draft might have themselves a steal. Yeah, I think, you know, I'll echo a lot of ways. what Cam said. I mean, I think the risk is

is super high. And so, you know, for me, I, he's, he's just outside of my first round right now. You know, as I stand right now, I haven't haven't published my final rankings yet. And when I do, it could change. But, you know, I think you look back, yeah, you have to look at some of the tape from last season as well. And there's obviously

a lot of skill. I think there's a lot of talent in there. But, man, it's, it's just so hard to know. And I think when you're, you know, the first round designation on a guy can go a lot of different ways and I think it's okay to hedge you know like I mean I think it's okay to hedge

on a guy with that history and you know yeah if you if you I think you've been a team with multiple picks I think if you're a team that that is kind of in the later stages and you're you're comfortable with where your prospect system is I mean I have no problem taking a swing on them but you're going off of little information and

And I think that, you know, you're going to feel better about guys that you've been able to do a lot more homework on. And I know, you know, Cam, as you mentioned, kind of the health thing, you know, some of the scouts that I've talked to have expressed, you know, at least some moderate skepticism. You know, you always kind of take things with a grain of salt when they're coming from the agent and things. I think, you know, not having that opportunity at the at the combine to, you know, do a physical with him is probably another thing where you're basically taking the medical records as they're. provided to you. So that's another thing to consider when you're when you're thinking about Hendricks LaPierre. Yeah, his medical records are like, oh, don't worry. I'm fine. I'm good. I'm feeling good today. Redacted. Yeah. Here's a, here's a selfie, like in me smiling. I'm obviously in good spirits. I'm great. All right. Well, this is a blast, guys. We went over the two-hour mark.

We did it. I'm excited. This was really fun that we got to do all these picks and talk about all these guys and hopefully it was informative for people listening plug some stuff what uh what are you working on i know cam you've already come out with your list chris when is your final final list coming out yeah my final i believe will be out um next week so i think like around may 13th or so um somewhere in that range um and uh you know it'll it'll drop whether the the draft is you know at june 5th or whatever i mean i've kind of done it as much as i can do at this point um there's not much hockey going on, I've heard. So, yeah, but that's the main thing, you know, that's at ESPN Plus,

and, you know, certainly we'll have a lot more stuff kind of in the lead-up to the draft, you know, kind of working through some of that that we normally do, obviously an accelerated timeline with some of that. So hopefully we can get as much in as we normally would. But, yeah, that's the main thing. And then obviously on Twitter, I'll certainly be following along on the draft live and we'll have live coverage of the draft as well with, you know, live rankings and grades and all those other things that kind of come with the draft.

So keep an eye out for that on ESPN Plus. Cool. Cam? Yeah, I did drop a rankings there five or six weeks ago. I have reserved the right to put one more out probably the week ahead of the draft because all I'm doing is watching old game tape before the draft. I beg your part. Yeah, I should drop it a week after.

Yeah. Oh, man. Can't be wrong. Can't be wrong. Exactly. So all I'm doing is watching tape anyway. So little adjustments will probably happen. I'll put out a final one there too.

Yeah, doing the work for elite prospects and dauber prospects and then obviously all the fun stuff on Twitter. But I think the biggest loss here is that we don't get to all hang out at the draft this year and have all the fun on the floor and then have the pops afterwards and stuff like that. So now we've got to push it to 2021. So it'll be a big gap from hanging out. Yeah, especially in Montreal. It would have been a blast.

But listen, there's much bigger things. going on so hopefully everyone's staying safe and staying healthy and staying indoors and we're going to get through this and the 2021 draft is going to be a blast and I'm looking forward to do that in person with you guys but thanks for taking the time I really appreciate it I know the listeners do as well and we will we'll check back in hopefully if the draft is in early June or whenever it is we'll get you guys back on to do a recap sort of thing sounds awesome thanks to mey sure just wanted to say thank you to everyone who listened to today's episode of the Hockey-Ocast especially to those of you maniac

who somehow are still listening and sticking around well after the two hour mark. It was certainly the longest show we ever done, but it was a special three-way draft podcast, and we had a lot of stuff to get to. So hopefully you enjoyed it, and hopefully it's got you thinking about the draft and getting you ready for it, considering it could be less than a month away now.

So we're going to take a week off from the rewatchables. We're going to get back to them next week, and we decided to do that since the draft has been kind of the main talking point in hockey circles or the past handful of days. But in the meantime, you can go back in their archives and listen to the first seven rewatchables we've done, and all of them, except for the most recent one,

involving the ducks and the oilers from 2017, is available on YouTube. So we're going to keep banging those out starting next week. Next up, the next handful are going to be Kings Hawks, Game 7, 2014, which is on YouTube. Aves Wild Game 7, 2014. Well, Patrick Wacham, you know, that's on YouTube as well. And then we're going to do Sharks Nights, Game 7, 2019.

Bolts, Blue Jackets, Game 4, 2019, and Caps Nights from the Stanley Cup Final in 2018, game 5. So all that to look forward to. In the meantime, I'd really appreciate it if you would take a minute out of your day to go leave the show a rating and review. It's a small little thing. It takes very little time and effort on your apart, but it means a lot to us and it goes a long way. And especially these days, that love is really greatly appreciated by myself and the P.D. So thank you for doing that. And hopefully you stay inside.

You stay safe. And we're going to get through this together. And we'll be back next week with some more podcasts and some more rewatchable. So thanks for listening. And let's cue the outro. The hockey PDOCAST with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud. At soundcloud.com slash hockey PDOCast.