The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 356: Blue Jackets vs. Lightning 2019 Rewatch

Episode Date: May 21, 2020

Alison Lukan joins the show to help revisit last year's stunning round one upset of the Lightning, how the Blue Jackets managed to pull it off in legitimate fashion, and everything that's happened since for both franchises. The categories we cover include:2:30 The magnitude of the upset10:00 How the Blue Jackets did it20:00 What aged the best33:00 What aged the worst43:00 Turning point and Most Rewatchable Moment49:00 Biggest Heat Check Performance52:00 Biggest 'That Guy'58:00 The good and bad of Pierre McGuire1:04:00 Most Unanswerable Questions1:14:00 Apex Mountain1:21:00 Who won the gameStay safe, get comfortable at home, kick back with a beverage of your choice, and watch along with us. The full game isn’t available on Youtube unfortunately, but you can still see the broadcast in its entirety on NHL TV. You can also go back into the archives of the show and catch up on the previous Quarantine Rewatchables we’ve already done: Penguins vs. Red Wings 2009 Bruins vs. Maple Leafs 2013 Canucks vs. Blackhawks 2011 Flyers vs. Penguins 2012 Capitals vs. Canadiens 2010 World Cup of Hockey 2016 Oilers vs. Ducks 2017 See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theas, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl Defensive Inn, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and, of course, the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React. R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

These days, everything is go, go, go. It's non-stop hustle all the time. Work, friends, family. Expect you to be on 24-7? Well, sometimes you just need to reach for a Coors Light because it's made to chill. Coors Light is cold-loggered, cold-filtered, and cold-packaged.

It's as crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. He's literally made to chill. Coors Light is the one I choose when I need to unwind. So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. progressing to the mean since 2015.

It's the Hockey Pediocast. With your host, Dimitri Philo... My name's Dimitri Philopovich and joining me today is my good buddy, Alison, Luca. And Allison, what's going on? Not much. I'm glad you gave me an excuse to rewatch some good hockey. Yes. Well, today we're doing the, we're doing the rewatch of the, it's not necessarily a classic because it was only four games. And I think, you know, one fan base, particularly the Lightning will be very upset about this. But the Blue Jackets Lightning series from last year, and we're only a year removed.

But the reason why I thought this would be a fun exercise for us to do beyond just sort of the absurdity and the historically seismic upset that it was is, and I'm sure you felt this as well. well being so centralized in Columbus is like it just felt like in the moment maybe it was because there was so much going on in the entire round one around the league with all the upsets but this one in particular as it was happening there was this kind of like whirlwind nature to it where you couldn't even really take a step back and appreciate what was happening because it just felt like the punches were coming right like from all different directions and so I wanted to a year removed now see if we can make some more sense of it and maybe find some instructive takeaways for the future rather than just saying, you know, kind of shrugging our shoulders and just being like,

well, that's playoff hockey for you. Yeah, I mean, it is true. You know, you think back to that. I mean, it was literally a week, right? I mean, and it's, it was so surreal. Everything was surreal about it. The way game one started, the fact that the Blue Jackets come back to win any game, let alone one game one, the energy around the lightning. I mean, the whole thing is, It was just insane. You kind of had to ground yourself and say, I just need to pay attention because none of this makes sense. Well, I think what makes it,

I think honestly the most sort of staggering upset that I can remember, at least like as an adult, is I did the series with the Canadians and the Capitals when Yarrow Halak was just out of his mind for a couple games and just stole the series when Washington was similarly this offensive juggernaut to what this Tampa Bay Lightning team was. But in that case, it was much easier to chalk that up to, well, a goalie got really hot, and that sometimes happens in these playoffs series. What made this one so jarring was, I wouldn't say necessarily the Blue Jackets completely outplayed the lightning, although there were certainly stretches where it looked like they were the significantly better team.

But they were really like trading punches with them and going toe to toe and really weren't sort of backing down and trying to play this conservative style of hockey. And I think that was the most kind of eye-opening thing for me that they were able to not only get, get away with that, but actually just win all four games doing so. Yeah. And I think it's really interesting, you know, if you follow the Blue Jackets like I do, you know, this is a team that's evolved because to your point, I mean, you look at that Tampa Bay roster and it was obviously just stacked with talent, well-earned recognition for so many players there.

Not a lot of people know a lot of players on the Columbus Blue Jackets, particularly last season before the trade deadline. And this was a matchup that was won in large part due to strategy, which is so interesting to me because a few years prior to this, John Tortorello had kind of been outstratized by an opponent when the team lost to Pittsburgh. He was outstriaged by his friend Mike Sullivan. And so to see that evolution to realize there was going to be a talent mismatchup to accept that and then make strategic changes and then see the team.

execute it almost perfectly for the majority of the series, that was pretty cool to see. Well, and no pun intended, but it was a bit of a perfect storm. I'm certainly not saying that anyone predicted this. I remember I did a series-by-series breakdown before this postseason, and we did 15 minutes on the series of Mike Johnson, and we were going back and forth, and I didn't want to just do your typical well, the lightning, or one of the best teams we've ever seen, so they're just going to steamroll this. I wanted to sort of look at it from Columbus perspective and how they could pull off the upset and we sort of highlighted, you know, you want to slow down the pace a little bit and limit the events and the Blue Jackets that season. They didn't play that way in the

series, but they were one of the slower pace 5-15 teams for the year. Limit the number of power plays, the Blue Jackets, I believe we're either 30th or 31st in terms of penalties taken, and we saw that in this series where they were incredibly disciplined and, in fact, got under the Tampa Bay's skin and sort of flipped it on them. And then a hot goalie, and Bobrovsky certainly down the stretch after the All-Star break was a completely different goalie than he was at the start of the year and his season long numbers didn't do justice how well he was playing heading into this so the formula was there but i mean let's be real i don't think anyone uh saw this coming let alone just a bluejacket series win not even a sweep and it was just this whirlwind in

one week and i think sort of all the betting odds all of the models heading into the postseason uh highlight that and it's going to you know give a lot of ammunition for people who um think statistical modeling is silly they're going to point to the series and be like oh well you had the the lightning as this him a favorite and they didn't win a single game so why should we care about these numbers? And I guess that's part of what makes the NHL postseason fun is that randomness and the fact that anything can happen. But in some ways, it also is kind of, it feels a bit counterproductive in a way just because it sort of sets back the movement a little bit with people thinking that, you know, numbers

don't necessarily mean anything when you come to the postseason. I mean, it's a fair point. And it's funny. I mean, one of the quotes from this game four that I just laughed at, and this is classic Pierre LeBron, not pure. Carely, Ron, my goodness, Pierre McGuire. He said, you know, late in the third, he said, it's not an analytic sport. It's a character sport.

Yep. And then goes on to cite some of the analytical, uh, outstanding things that the Blue Jackets were doing, which was running a power kill, a very aggressive, offensive penalty kill and things like this. But I think it, it does, you know, look, people who hate analytics are going to hate analytics till they're done covering the game. But what I think it is, what it, does do is it takes us to where I think so many of us have already been thinking for a long time,

which is the system side of it, right? And there are things we can't measure. I mean, and there are things about executing and tactically perfecting a counterattack against the team like the lightning that, you know, one of the things I did find a way to do was measure that forecheck during that series. And the blue jackets won that battle. And the result was a surprise. And the suppressed offense for the lightning. So the models didn't work, but, you know, we know this too, that hockey still has work to do in measuring so much of the game. And look, I'm an analytical person and I didn't have the blue jackets winning this

series either. So it is the fun of it for sure. Well, one of my most unanswerable questions skipping ahead is what exactly does Pierre McGuire think analytics is? And it's this really, we're talking more about it when we get into the commentary corner. But for me, it's always kind of funny because in this game, he's like tiptoeing around so many concepts, as you mentioned there, that we all universally agree are very important. He's talking about the forjacketing. He's talking about all these things in Columbus's defense activating and jumping in.

And he's basically like alluding to a lot of these like more progressive, modern, aggressive concepts that the blue jackets are using. But at the same time, he's finding a backhanded way to bring down analytical. as well, even though those two things kind of work in concert. And that's why it's so silly. It feels like this pure, just like willful, burying your head in the sand and kind of, you know, being blissfully ignorant and just like a lack of understanding of what analytics actually is because in a way, he's sort of propping it up with his commentary throughout the game. Totally.

And it's like I said, you know, I think in anything, not just sports analytics, to presume that because we don't measure something means it can't be an analytical idea, like you just said is so short-sighted. There's so many things that, I mean, all of us who, you know, we do micro-tracking because we can't technically measure off gameplay, you know, entries and exits, but there's analytical work that's been done there. He mentions that too. You know, he talks about how the Tampa Bay can't get through the zone. They don't have a transition game. There are analytical concepts there. And just because those aren't stats that at least right now in the NHL, we can get in a publicly available way quickly, that doesn't mean that they aren't analytics. That

doesn't mean there isn't measures to be used or still to be developed that help us address these things that we know can make an impact on the game. Round number one, team four. It's the Tampa Bay Lightning and the Columbus Blue Jackets. Good evening, everybody. I'm John Forsland. As always, thanks for joining us this record-setting season for the Tampa Bay Lightning hanging in the balance tonight as they face elimination for the first time in this series.

And for the second time in this series, they will play without injured defensemen, Victor headman, but they should get a boost. The NHL's leading scorer, Nikita Kuturoff returns from a one-game suspension. They'll look to make an impact tonight. Okay, well, let's get into the categories, and we'll start with sort of the legacy of the game, and I wanted to set the scene a little bit for here, and I know everyone is aware of how big of an upset is, but I did want to sort of just put a bit of a few numbers to it and kind of try to quantify the magnitude and sort of the proportions of this

option. It was funny because heading in during the regular season, the lightning had certainly dominated pretty much every single team they'd played. I mean, they won 62 games for crying out loud, but particularly against Columbus, and this was a different Columbus team by the time they entered the playoffs after the trade deadline for a lot of these matchups. But in the regular season when they played, it was 8-2 Tampa Bay, 4-0-0-0, Tampa Bay, 5-1, and then game 1 starts 3-0. And what age the worst was at the time when Tampa Bay went up 3-0, I was like, the season series so far is 20 to 3-0. that's probably not a good sign for Columbus. And they basically like inverted it within the next three and a half games or whatever.

So it was funny to see sort of how quickly you could just throw the regular season stats and the season series out of the window. But when in preparation for this show, I was going back and I was kind of trying to watch as much as I could of the three games that led up to it. The reason we chose game four was because I thought it was a really exciting back and forth tilt. But it also captured the essence of, you know, sort of how excitable the Columbus fan base was. in the arena, but also just sort of what was going on in this series with Tampa Bay looking like they were going to get there, but not being able to figure out what was going on. But in game one, and that was sort of probably the craziest game of this series, I kind of forgot just how ridiculous it was because we know that Columbus came back from being down 3-0 after

the first period, but re-watching it, it easily could have been like 5, 6, maybe even 7-0 at some point in that game. Like, they were really flailing. There was one moment where a puck just basically went through Sergei Babrovsky and Marcus Nudovara cleared it off the goal line. He made a couple big pad saves on Kuturov and Stamco's himself, but there was a post in there. And it really felt like it was like basically going along script with what we thought it

was going to look like. And then all of a sudden it flips and they start playing completely different. And in the moment, what was going on there? Because Pierre throughout the series was talking about how, you know, Tortoella went into the locker room and gave this. motivational speech to his team about how they couldn't play scared and how they needed to be more aggressive particularly with the defenseman how they needed to kind of jump in and be and we saw that with david savard and the goal he scores and seth jones and so on and so forth but what was going on there

in the moment like is it just sort of this uh benefit of hindsight thing where we can look back at it and go like oh there was this one magical moment whereas if the comeback hadn't happened we just never would have talked about it because i'm sure coaches give motivational speeches that don't lead the results all the time. So like what was what was going on in that moment? Yeah. I mean, and to add on to kind of your context, I mean, for people might remember, it was in Tampa where Sergei Bobrovsky gets pulled and he walks out on his team and gets suspended after. I mean, the storylines between these two teams, like you said, the script seemed to be written. But the irony about that narrative of the speech is so what happens is there's that first period.

And after that first period, you know, I was I was with you. I was like, you know, people with the jokes were flying, oh, the series can be one in one game. Ha, ha, ha. And, you know, I was just, I was just hoping for the organization not to feel embarrassed by their showing. I just wanted them to make it competitive at that point. And then after the team comes back and wins, this speech of John Torterell, like, just driving his team hits the airwaves. Well, the irony is the speech was actually before the game. So he gives that speech and the team comes out and basically lays an egg the first period.

And after everything said and done, the guys would kind of joke saying they were perhaps almost too amped by the speech. But, you know, I think that what turned it around is that these guys really bought into everyone counting them out and using that as motivation. You know, even before this series started, that was that was Torts line. He's like, I'm sick of everyone asking me about Tampa. If you want to talk to me, ask me questions about my team. And I think that this group perhaps just got pounded so hard that first period that maybe something unlocked for them and said, you know, what do we have to lose now? Just go do it. Just give everything.

And they come out for that second period. And within the first few minutes, Bob makes a huge save, I believe on Kuturoff, a blue jackets are on the penalty kill. And I think for the team to see him respond that way, we all didn't know if Bob was even. going to come back out for the second period. And so to see him make that save gave his team confidence because a huge narrative for this organization has been that Sergei Bobrovsky couldn't perform in the playoffs. And it sounds like I'm over-emphasizing one save, but I think they needed anything right at that moment to hang their hat on. And then the team kind of steadies, they defend the penalty kill, which had been their calling card all season. And then they hold the line

and then their captain, Nick Folino, goes on this insane break. This is not Nick Filino's forte. God bless Nick Falino. And scores the opening goal. And, you know, again, I'm a believer in analytics. We talk about analytics all the time. But everyone I've talked to has said that the intangible value of seeing your captain do that can be that kind of final mental lock to make you dig into the system. And then the guy started to see how they'd been asked to play pay off.

And I think that's what tilted the ice. Plus, like, I still don't understand what happened to Tampa. Like, it just, I remember even when they were in Columbus, I mean, you'd talk to Stamcoast, you'd hear John Cooper and just, we joke about being annoyed by hockey cliches, but you would hear, there was no fire. There was no urgency. There was no frustration. It was just kind of like, well, yeah, I mean, it was shocking to me the energy that that group was giving. off too. So Columbus circles, we point to the save and the first goal and then the ice kind of tilts from there. Well, and this series was this great sort of like psychological exercise and sort of how, you know, these existing maybe biases or expectations that you have getting into it, how they can cloud

because as a series goes long, and especially once you start getting into game three, let's say, and, you know, the crowd's buzzing and Columbus just comes out out of the game roaring and they're just dominating. There was still this like nagging thought in the back of my head where it was just like, and I'm sure I wasn't alone where you had this feeling in the moment of waiting for Tampa Bay to figure it out. And then as soon as they would and they solve Columbus in whatever way that was, they would just all of a sudden turn on the jets and never look back and look like the Tampa Bay team. We were expecting the regular season and just keep outscoring them and just get back into this. And it was to the point where it was really funny following the betting odds throughout the series

because, you know, you enter it, and Tampa Bay is just prohibitive minus 340 favorite. They're 2 to 1 to win the cup. And I think the Bruins were second best at like 9 to 1 or something. It was one of the biggest gaps that we've ever really seen. And even after the Lightning lose Game 1 at home in such a demoralizing fashion, they still enter game 2 minus 175 to win the series as a prohibitive favorite. As the series goes on, like the Lightning were still favored in every single game, even on the road. and I think part of it was people just expecting that, listen, we still think they're the better team.

And so they're eventually going to do this. And eventually you just get to game four. And you have this kind of aha moment where it's like, oh, it's just not going to happen, I guess. Like they're going to run out of real estate here to do so and to figure it out. But when was the, for you watching this and following alive, like, when was the point where you really started to actually believe that this could happen? And Columbus was either the better team at the moment or had the, their number for whatever reason or just was eventually going to be able to get over the top. And Tampa Bay wasn't going to be able to figure it out.

Was there a certain aha moment for you there? Or was it just like you actually had to wait to see game four end with those three empty netters or whatever before you could finally believe it? You know, I think when we realized how effective the four check was going to be, that was when I, and you could again, see the frustration. You could see the tangible on ice results of that, the suppression, the suppression, nature of that on how Tampa Bay's offense was built. I started to have confidence, but I'm not going to lie. I needed the final score to hit on the series clinching game because you just never know. And this is, you know, I know we'll get to this, but one of my most unanswerable questions is what if Tampa Bay had won one of those first four games? Because I'm with you. I, and Columbus people might hate me for this. I don't. I don't. don't know if this, and we were talking about it going into game four. If the series goes back

to Tampa, will they win that? And, you know, to come at game four was when Tampa came back, remember? So as opposed to, you know, we talk about the importance of game one. Game four is when Tampa finally comes back and ties the game. If they win that game, does the switch flip in their favor? And now they go to home ice. Who's to say, if Tampa Bay could have won one of those first four games is Tampa Bay the one that continues on to the second round. Columbus is still searching for their first series win. I don't know the answer to that question. I think they could have turned it around, like you said. You just hit the nail on the head. You perfectly summarized why I wanted to do this particular

game. There's this like five-minute stretch in real time where Braden point scores that goal and they make it three-three coming back from a three-one deficit. And if you told me at that moment, the Tampa Bay was just going to come back and never look back and win this series, I would have completely believed it. And Columbus literally scores on the next shift and a delayed penalty and it's over. And it was just surreal to follow that in a moment and sort of need to finally wake up to the fact that this was actually happening because the improbability of it was just so extreme. So we're going to get into all that. This game unfortunately isn't on YouTube, but if anyone has NHL TV, they can fire it up. It's there. They're broadcast in entirety. We're going to do the NBC feed with

John Fawson and Pierre McGuire. And so hopefully people enjoy. and watch this back with us and stay safe in the meantime and use this as a bit of a distraction for themselves. So let's get into what age the best. What do you what do you have for this category? Yeah. For me and you know, particularly when you look at the changes to the Blue Jackets roster from the end of last season to this, what age the best was that the Blue Jackets took that forecheck, that key to success against Tampa and really made it part of their identity this year. And that's how they won this year. That became their calling card. So that coming into Columbus's identity, and because they knew it worked against the best team, arguably last year, I think it gave the team a really quick buy-in period.

So they went right to it. They knew it could work. And I think that the other thing that age the best was the very quiet ascension of Oliver Bjork Strand. This is a player who, I mean, he gets the series winning goal here in game four, but this was a player who would always. always surge late in the season, still was kind of trying to find the other half of his game. He was obviously offensively talented. But this is a guy who, and we learned this this year, talking to him, really paid attention to what made Artemi Panarin so elite, brought what he could of that into his game.

And this season, he has become, John Torterale said it, the most consistent forward on the team and probably one of their most valuable players. Yeah, I had, um, Columbus is just. forward group in general in this game. It was kind of, it was a bit, you know, I knew what they had, but it was just seeing it, again, where you have this top line, Panarin, playing with Dubois and Bjork Strand. And kudos to John Torrella, because throughout the year that Panarin, Dubois-Atkisson trio before the trades had been one of the most dominant, offensively potent forward lines in the entire

league, and they'd played like 700-some-odd minutes together at 5-on-5. and for them to kind of switch that up and try to make all of these new pieces fit where you bump York Strand up, but then you have the second line that's just flying out there with Doucher and Atkinson and the Zingle. And then the third line with Polino, Anderson, and Texier.

And then you have Riley Nash and Boone General on the fourth line, and those guys are overqualified, obviously, for those roles as well. Sort of that depth. And, you know, we talk about the star power that Tampa Bay has. And obviously, when you have Kuturov and Stamcoast and Point and Headman, those guys are brand name household stars.

But Columbus in this series, like this forward group is not too shabby itself. Like they really could. It's a bit of a cliche, but they really could just roll four lines and play fast. And sort of all four of those lines could play the way that's four checking uptempo style that the team wanted to play, regardless of who was out there. And that must be such a luxury for a coach to be able to do that without having to sort of plug their nose and not look for a couple minutes and hope that their fourth line doesn't all of a sudden give up a goal against or take a dumb penalty. Absolutely. And I think too, you know, and this was something that Pierre did note that there was a, and this was, you know, this was the last season that we may see Brandon Dubinsky play. And that, that fourth line of Riley Nash, Boone Jenner, Brandon Dubinsky. And that identity, that line was an identity line in the right sense of the word. And that that was the heart of getting the forecheck, of executing the forecheck. I mean, Riley Nash's defensive performance. is so subtle, but so important. I mean, there are so many just little breakups and little denied entries that he has,

even in just game four, that I agree. I mean, when that's your fourth line with last year where each of those players was at with their game, it was huge. I love also with these playoffs series, sometimes the chess match nature of it or sort of coaches adjusting on the fly and moving certain pieces around. And in this game, you already alluded to Bjork Strand and how he was playing on top line and what age the best in terms of his ascension and what he would do this year. But similarly for Tampa Bay, John Cooper goes into this game.

Kutrov misses game three because of his suspension. He's back in the lineup. And Cooper just stacks his top line with Kuturov, Stamcoz, and Sirelli. And he bumps Stamcoz to the wing to play with those guys. And then he has Point, Palad, and Johnson. And it was really fascinating to see, you know, both Sirelli and Bjork Strand on opposite sides playing these huge roles on their individual team's top lines. and then heading into this year where Bjork Strand is, you know, top 20 in 5-1-5 goals and on a

permanent basis one of the best goals scores in the league. And Sirelli is, you know, for my money, the SELCI winner and really develops into this great two-way player. And so it was kind of cool to see these young players playing bigger roles and they probably had throughout the regular season and sort of what it would mean for them heading into this season. Absolutely agree. And, you know, on the Sirelli point, I wanted to get into this a little bit with

you where from sort of a line building perspective and I'm so fascinated by this idea of because there's very few perfect well-rounded players it feels like each player has their own strengths and weaknesses obviously and so with soorelli he's this type of player where he may not have high-end skill per se but his positional awareness and his particularly ability to forecheck and cause turnovers and retrieve the puck for his team and we see it at actually on Tampa Bay's first goal in this game where he hounds someone on the blue line, causes a turnover,

goes to Kuturov, who flips at the Stamco's and they score. And I'm so intrigued by this idea of putting complementary skill sets together where Sirelli doesn't need the puck on a stick. So he can play so well with a guy like Kutjarova or Stamco's

because he can just get them the puck, get out of the way, and then once they lose possession, go back and retrieve it and basically give them added opportunities in the offensive zone. But I understand why coaches sometimes would maybe look at a guy, like Sirelli and go, well, he provides too much defensive matchup value for us, so we're going to keep them in the bottom six and have him play against other team's best players with, you know,

a 35, 40 percent offensive zone start rate. But I just love that idea of maybe taking a guy with not your conventional first line caliber offensive skills and putting them with your highest skilled players to be able to retrieve the puck and get it. Similar to what like the Canucks were doing in their heyday with Alex Burroughs playing with the Siddines or something like that. And I mean, to your point, that turnover, he takes the puck away from Seth Jones on the blue line. That's Seth Jones. And it's, I mean, that's, that's a flub by Seth, but that's also, like you say, good play there. And I think that, you know, that was one thing, too. It's, it's, I do consider it a pleasure to have been able to cover a player like Artemmy Panarin because he's an elite player,

but not exactly in the same vein, obviously, but what makes Panarin special isn't because he scores goals, right? It's his, even that Bjork-Straing, game-winning goal, it's Panarin that makes that goal happen. And watching a player who selflessly, as we say in the hockey circles, create for others, to me, that's more fun almost than the goals themselves. Yeah. I know. Panarin has this play.

He doesn't get an assist on it because they don't want up scoring. I forget what the exact moment of it was. I should have dropped it down. But they have this, like, impromptu, kind of like a three-on-one break almost, or it's a three-on-two. And Panarin's an offensive zone really close to Basilevsky, actually. And he does this, like, a little edge. work. It's so small that you almost wouldn't notice it if you hadn't just watched the replay a couple

times. But he kind of sucks the defender over to him just a little bit so he can pass it into the middle of the ice to Bjorkshire or whoever. And they get a great scoring chance. But it was this little detail where he just holds onto the puck for a split, not even a half second, like a millisecond longer. And it just causes the defender to lean a little bit. And at that point, he's got him where he wants him and he gets it for a better scoring chance. It's just like, it's brilliant. It's so fun to watch that type of hockey. Absolutely. And again, that's why I say, you know, and oh, you know, when it is, I actually did jot it down.

I think this is the one. It's second period with 1455 to play. Yep, that sounds very right. But it's, yeah, and, you know, I think, too, that's what gives, it's been really interesting to hear Bjork Strand talk and show what he learned from Panarin, because you can see little wrinkles of that from him. And there's even that chance, the odd man rush before Panera. and's empty net goal where he drives down and does a little duke two down there.

I mean, there's just so many little things that it's so fun to watch him that go beyond just when you talk about the top elite players. It's so much, we need analytics to measure what is that makes Artemipan so special because it's different than the traditional stats that we look at. Yep. What age is the best? The Columbus home crowd, just because, you know, we don't have live hockey now, unfortunately, it's probably a while until we have fans jammed into an arena like this.

But, man, it is just, it's so fun. And this is playoff hockey, right? We talk about, like, the league trying to get back, obviously, some of the revenue and playoff hockey games at some point here in the summer. And I totally understand why. And we're going to watch it because we're so starved for live sports and we're certainly going to enjoy it. But it's this crowd where there's just like entire game. I mean, the broadcast opens up and as John Foresland just sitting in the booth by himself and you could just hear them just chanting CBJ in the background the entire time. and basically any time a single thing happens,

Babrovsky makes a save, they draw a penalty, anything, they're just like every, it's like a standing ovation, everyone. It's just a raucous crowd. And you can't really replicate that type of intensity and energy artificially. It's just such as like a beautiful, organic thing of playoff hockey. And so just rewatching that,

it kind of had like a slow tear dribbling down my cheek, just remembering how beautiful playoff hockey can be. I love the, this was one of the quotes I jotted down from Foresland. He said, the chant is simply CBJ. that just so encapsulated what that crowd was all about that night. And they come up to in my TSN turning points. So I'll save my comments for that one. My final, what age the best,

and actually have more what age the best than what age the worst for this. So for people that think we're a bit too pessimistic on the video cast, this is why this game was so fine because there's so many beautiful things that come from it. But how both teams responded to this result in the offseason that followed. Now, for Columbus, maybe it was out of their hands because, you know, the two high-price-free agents decided to walk anyway, and if they could have had their wish, maybe they would have overpaid them.

We're not sure about those details, but especially with Broowski. But, you know, for Columbus to have this magical run and then appreciate it for what it is, but also not kind of delude themselves into making some sort of crazy decisions to kind of double down and try to keep that going. And instead strategically,

basically just turn over the keys to Corpusallo and Elvis for a significant. significantly reduced price and, you know, bring in Gustav Nyquist to replicate 60% of what the skiller, a Gemma Panarin gave them. Like, I just thought that was really well done and navigated coming off of the high that they had from their first postseason success. And similar with Tampa Bay, where it's so easy after a failure like this to just talk yourself into, oh, we're, you know, fundamentally flawed.

We need to completely change everything. We need to get tougher. And they did, but they didn't pay a premium to do so. like they bring in pat maroon on this discount price they certainly paid some draft capital to get um blake coleman and berkeley good drod during the season but that was kind of more nuanced because both guys have term on their deal and can still sort of kill penalties and actually do functional stuff beyond just being gritty and so i love that uh this was such like an emotionally charged postseason series for a variety of reasons and there was so much going on yet both teams kind

of walked away with it obviously um with different reactions but similarly not allowing just one postseason series to completely change the trajectory of their franchise. Absolutely. And I think it was interesting. We, Joe Smith, who covers the Lightning and I looked at this before the two teams met before the season was paused. And what I appreciated too is Tampa up their, to your point, up their defensive play. They were more suppressive of their opponents with, again, some system stuff and really attacking zone entries against. and really closing down kind of the most dangerous areas for them in their own zone. And again, to your point, they didn't just blow everything up and go with a bunch of grinders and huge defensemen.

It was a tactical choice, little areas of focus that yielded results. And I liked to see that too. I mean, good on them for saying, how were we beat? Okay, let's bring in the right parts of that to make us more defensively strong as well. Mm-hmm. Yep. All right. Any other what age the best or should we flip it and get into what age of the worst? We can go into what age of the worst. All right. What do you got for this one? Well, I mean, again, this is very niche for people who follow Columbus.

And we should say that it's tricky because we're like a year removed from it. It's not like a half a decade ago. So it's a bit of a different category. But yeah, go for it. Yeah, I think what aged honestly the worst is that the Blue Jackets Power Play has been dismal for years ever since Sam Gagne left. And they were 50% in this series. And they actually were pretty okay against Boston as well. And I think there was this feeling that, aha, they finally figured it out. And no, it was still bad this year. So I think that that age the worst. And I think also, of course, I mean, we already talked about this, but all the takes.

of, you know, this is Tampa Bay's to lose. They're going to sweep. Will Columbus even win a game? I mean, to look back on that. And it's something that stings, I know, some around the organization to this day. And you hear a little bit of this, not so much by Game 4, but it is still kind of there. The onus was so much on, well, Tampa Bay is losing as Columbus figured this out and won this. And I think that that's aged poorly is really looking at what Columbus did and why it worked. I mean, there's certainly fun and joy in the Cinderella story element of it all, but there's also some really tangible hockey lessons and what they did too that I think kind of get swept under the rug. Well, especially since they did lose significant talent this summer, but basically found a way to be successful playing like a similar structural way. right like they they kind of still kept a lot of those core elements just with different names and and uh yeah so

i think that's a great point you know the power play thing the special themes thing and so often postseason matchups do come down to this and it was crazy because tampa bay had i think one of the best power plays we've ever seen his regular season and and we talked earlier how columbus had been so disciplined throughout the year despite playing you know john tortarella kind of grittier tougher hockey but it was remarkable where in game one tampa bay has four minutes and 52 seconds of power play time, game two, four minutes, game three, not a single second of power play time, and game four, just a minute and nine seconds that they score that point power play goal, which is their only power play tally of the series.

But yeah, that was kind of crazy to see that Tampa Bay just really couldn't get anything going there, whereas Columbus had this like five-man unit. They were just flinging the puck around. It felt like it kind of like pinball sort of watching it. Maybe that does lay a bit of credence to kind of this being like a bit of a short sample-sized aberration and the fact that they couldn't really replicate it where like they were getting so many wild bounces off the backboards and stuff and and coming to out in front to boric strand and panarin and and dubois and so yeah i mean but that was that was ultimately the difference maker i mean

Columbus had five power play goals and just 17 minutes of power play time in this series and they were they were killing like tampa bay really had no solution for for what they were what they had going there but um yeah i guess when you strip sort of a power play quarterback like paneran there it makes things a little trickier to navigate. Yeah, for sure. And I think, you know, it's, I'm not going to say it was just the talent that came into because the power play was really bad regular season before. But it's, you know, and it's, but they did.

They, you described it perfectly. They found that zip. They found that puck movement that we know is essential to getting the penalty kill off their assignments of getting the goaltender moving. So it was, this is as much as we joke about this earlier, you know, it's a hot goaltender or this or that. This was definitely the magic and the bottle element of it that worked for Columbus for sure. This isn't specific to this game. It's kind of more of a serious thing, but rewatching some of the highlights at the end of game two, Victor Headman goes to the Columbus

bench and says, you guys are up to nothing. How did that wind up for you last year? And then Pierre McGuire says, he was saying that to Riley Nash. And Riley Nash's response was, I was in Boston. So good. That was pretty funny. So yeah, Victor Headman, just like me, had a bad take. but the other thing I had was, so what really stuck out was Tampa Bay was using J.T. Miller as this kind of like bit player who was on the third line. He played 14, under 15 minutes a night through under regular season. He played 9.20 in this game.

And he was for all intents of purposes, their 9th or 10th forward this year. And I get it. Like they were so deep and gifted up front that not everyone can play the big men as their skill set would probably allow them to. But it's what age the worst just because we flash forward a year and he's playing 20 minutes night on the Canucks. He's on pace for 32 goals and 86 points.

He's found this beautiful chemistry playing with Elias Pedersen. He's one of the most impactful possession players in the league. And so I guess that what age the worst for me, Tampa Bay certainly got compensated nicely with that future first that they used to flip for Blake Coleman. But just looking back at it now, it was like, wow, like J.T. Miller was playing such a small role considering how impactful he's been this season. that's a huge take. And to that point, too, it's, you know, and this is, this was one of my, my what-ifs,

but what if Victor Hedman was healthy this series, right? And so the choice to, and I get it, I get you want him in there, but is a broken Victor Hedman more effective than, you know, whoever you're going to bring in next? And because that's, that's who David Savard skates around in game one to score his goal. And, you know, I know that particularly in this moment, there was a lot of, head scratching and you know they bring in mcdona and this and that and a lot of head scratching from the tampa side of some of the lineup choices yeah there's a lot of brain coburn yeah a lot of brain coburn but listen i mean you're right so headman got injured towards end the regular season i think

he missed the final four or five games for them right to close the year and then he certainly wasn't himself in game one and two and and he doesn't play in the final two games and and and that's a big one obviously kutraov sort of losing his mind and and and delivering what was a really just like indefensible hit on Marcus Nudavara there and kind of just like letting his frustration take control of it gets suspended for game three and so those are two big pieces that are in the lineup for that but i think like the craziest thing like game three was a very close and it was three one um the game two in hindsight was was stunning because columbus comes out and they get this early lead and sort of back up exactly how game one had ended so it to prove that it wasn't just this

one game fluke or aberration and and rewatching that the craziest thing to me was just how how insanely good Matt Dushain was in that game, where we're going to get more into him when we talk about Apex Mountain, but I think he had like, what, four or five points in that game, but he was just, he was creating on pretty much every single shift, and Tampa Bay had no real answer. And the luxury to be able to have Panarin on his own line

and then have Matt Dushan come out and do that, as well as sort of a plan B. Like, game two really stuck out to me where that was the one where I just had no explanation for it because it was just so one side. And clearly Tampa Bay at that point with Kuturov, how he acted at the end of the game, had no answers themselves either. Yeah. And I think, you know, to that to that point, too, another thing that just felt out of character. And again, misdirected energy was, you know, Stamcoast's soccer punches, Nick Folino in game three.

And, you know, particularly when you're looking at, you know, the reputation I believe Stamcoast has and fans have of him and what wasn't happening on the ice, to do that. that's a guy that doesn't need that to happen to him right i mean that's that you can make better choices there absolutely um is there uh do you have any other what age of the worst those were mine i think one like borderline one for me was and i get why but Tampa bay had this shift towards the end of the game where they were in the offensive zone and they kept vasselowski and net and then they wind up pulling them with two 13 left i thought they maybe could have been a bit more aggressive there just because totally totally they had columbus hemmed in a little bit and had a couple good chances prior and it felt like they just wasted a 30 second span there but i guess when

columbus comes right back and scores so quickly and then empty net and then do so another three times or whatever like maybe uh maybe it's understandable why john cooper like just because of the risk reward of one goal here against and that series is over i understand why they were a bit more hesitant to do so but tampa bay is generally considered to be a pretty uh you know progressive and modern franchise and think about this stuff and i think in hindsight maybe they would have liked to pull the goalie a little bit earlier there Oh, for sure. And I mean, we know from analytics that you can pull a goaltender earlier is going to give you a better chance. And the interesting underlying theme there, right, is that you would think a team like Tampa Bay with six skaters in that moment with the momentum would have had an easy chance to at least control possession, if not get the goal. And if your coach isn't believing in you to do that, I mean, you've already lost the game. So there's a lack of a vote of confidence there a bit, too, for me. Because I wrote that down here. Why not pull the goaltender earlier?

I guess another what age, and it kind of leads to that point of if you have six of your best skaters out there in your Tampa Bay and you can't score, then maybe you don't deserve to win this game. But what age the worst for me was, I remember at the time, and I think kind of the narrative still when you talk about Nikita Kutrov these days, is that he's kind of like this playoff choker just because he's Tampa Bay,

he's considered to be Tampa Bay's best knows impactful player, and they haven't gotten over the hump. But he was remarkable in this game, like we have to say. and he struggled early in the series and then got suspended for game three. But in this game, rewatching it, it really felt like every shift, him, Stamco's and Sorelli were out there. Tampa Bay got some sort of a scoring chance. And so, yeah, if you can get him added opportunities with the puck out there,

with the game on the line, like that would have probably led the good things for Tampa Bay. So those two things kind of tie in neatly for me. Here comes point. Aiton. Boyne is heard from. Tampa Bay Lightning, 208 left in the second period. We're tied. The TSN turning point.

Oh, yes. So this is the moment that you already spoke about, which was the point game tie and we've had the luxury because obviously in the Columbus market, they've reared this series a couple times. So we've gotten to watch it. And what I don't know that conveys and you talk about, you know, what this meant to Columbus and it being their first series win, there has always been kind of this, oh, no, when does the floor fall out? for this team, for this organization. They can't get over the hump.

Something always gets in their way. And even with free agents leaving, that's always the narrative. And I'm sure it's for a lot of fan bases that don't, haven't found their way to a winning, consecutive wins or a Stanley Cup or what have you. And when point scores that goal, what happened was instead of, and we've all been in arenas, the arena kind of sucks itself in, right? You go, oh, no. point scores and every single person in that arena stands up and starts cheering.

And it was the most insane sense of like, we know we've got this. It's really hard to describe. And then as you said already, 54 seconds later, the blue jackets go down and score on a delayed penalty, Bjorksdram puts the puck in the net. That moment was probably the coolest sport moment I've been a part of because the energy of it, the volume of it, the reaction by the team in that moment with the crowd support, that's probably going to go down in my top 10 experiences in terms of covering the game. Well, there is such a human element of like, oh, if you've been burned times before,

regardless of what it is, it's like, oh, here we go again. And it's understandable that you would feel that way as a Blue Jackets fan. So that's pretty cool that that happened. I mean, this game was filled with turning points. I think that's what made it such a rewatchable. an entertaining game. There was certain things that I kind of forgotten as well. Like, you know, Columbus goes up 3-1,

and they eventually do wind up actually holding a 3-1 lead. But the first time they go up 3-1, John Cooper challenges an offside was Zach from Zack Wrenzky. And they wind up. It's so close. Like, I'm actually a bit surprised in hindsight that they overturned it because there's very few definitive angles that the puck actually was out. And the call on the ice was that it was a good goal.

But they wind up getting it overturned. And John Cooper has this, like, weird kind of reaction of like celebrating by just yelling at everyone on the bench to get it going. And then Pierre McGuire doubles down and has an even a weirder reaction to John Cooper's weird reaction. Get into it, man. Yeah, of like berating him for being emotionless, which is kind of a weird take to have. But so that was a turning point.

You know, there were times actually where Vaselowski struggled throughout this series and clearly was the second best goalie, but he kept them in it with a couple big sort of typical Vaselowski athletic sticking his leg out and kind of making an unpredictable. save to keep Tampa Bay in it before point tied it but yeah I mean that it has to be that sequence of especially point scoring such a it was like such a Tampa Bay lightning goal too where it's on the power play it's this beautiful display of skill where yeah I think Kucharov brings it into the offensive zone he flips it over to Stamco's two defenders go to Stamco's he somehow threads the needle to point and then he makes this ridiculous deak and then goes backhand top shelf basically

and you're thinking that's the Tampa Bay lightning we know unless love and they're going to get this figured out. And then for Columbus to score on literally the next shift right after, it was just stunning. I remember when Bjork Strand scored that in the celebration after, I just kind of couldn't believe that it was happening. But that was finally the moment where it felt like, okay, maybe Tampa Bay really isn't going to figure this thing out.

Yeah. You know, it was. And then from there, you know, as all good goaltenders do, you know, Bob basically shuts it down. He has two huge stops in the final five minutes on Stamco's and then on Paquette. too and I think that like I said the energy around that moment the response of that moment because it you know again the narrative around the blue jackets was their strength was panarin hopefully bob and their penalty kill and Tampa Bay had just broken their penalty kill that was the first time and

you know this all could have completely flipped and for Columbus to to stand their ground and score just it it's as close as i think Columbus has gotten to a storybook moment in their history so far Well, and, you know, I'm glad that this happened because it made for such an entertaining game, but it felt like this one really could get out of hand quickly where Columbus came out on fire and they're up to nothing less than five minutes in. And Pierre-M-Rigar is talking about how everyone on the lighting bench has this thousand yards there and they're completely checked out. And the fact that they were actually able to claw back and make it three-three,

considering all of the, you know, obstacles that were in front of them and the raucous crowd and everything, you know, credit to them for actually making a game. of this and not just completely folding the way they probably could have. So I think we did, I think we basically cover the most rewatchable moment. It was that sort of the point goal and then the Brooks aren't goal right after. So we can, we can skip that. Let's do the biggest heat check. Who was like the player that really stuck out to you and rewatching where you're like,

oh, I kind of not forgot because it happened so recently, but the kind of the player that had the most unpredictable impact on this game? Yeah, I mean, there were so many, obviously, when a series goes, like this. There are so many guys you can single out. But as I rewatch this and thought back to the series as a whole, David Savard was just, I mean, this is a guy who's usually second pair, penalty kill, a big physical guy. He comes out and scores that goal in game one. And then he just completely turned up his game for this series, for this postseason. It's funny, he came from the queue, right? So he comes in being known as this offensive defenseman and then

comes and is just basically meant to be a shutdown guy, but he was all over the place. And particularly when you look at what happened to the Blue Jackets defense, I mean, they come into this playoff without three guys on the blue line that they thought would be playing. Ryan Murray, Marcus Nudevara, goes out after he gets hit. And Adam McQuaid, who was playing actually quite well for the Blue Jackets, is out with a concussion at the time. So for Savar to help anchor that defense down behind Seth Jones and Zach Werenski, He's one that, and I think unsung is the perfect word for it, right?

Because you don't talk about it a lot, but he was a huge part of this for the Blue Jackets. He led the team at Ice Time in this game, too, I believe. So, yeah, he was relied upon quite a bit. And his partner in this game, Dean Kukin had quite a game as well. He was flying out there. And yeah, you're right. This Blue Jacket seems certainly you think of, when you think of their defense, you think of Seth Jones, and you think of Zach Rensky.

But, you know, Newtivaral wasn't playing in this game because of the injury, but had him this year and all these guys. they have quite a bit of depth there. For me, it was Alex Taxier, where he scores the first goal in that beautiful power play tally, kind of rister from the circle. But his story as well, I think I had a really high expectations for him this year and because of injuries and just because Columbus wasn't this sort of offensively dominant team. Maybe he under-delivered a little bit in terms of just my sky-high priesties and expectations

where I thought he could really be a candidate for rookie of the year this season. but him coming to America as a teenager from the French League. He's a second round pick in 2017. He goes, he dominates the finish league. And then as soon as the finish league season ends, and he led his team in scoring as a teenager, he gets seven HL games under his belt, scores five goals, plays in the final two regular season games

just to kind of get his feet when NHL scores a goal, and then jumps right into the playoffs. And they're talking in this game where people were wondering whether he should even be playing, whether or whatever should be going with him. more sort of veteran experience in that in that spot. But he's playing a key role here with Anderson and Flino in the third line and on the power play. And he scores two goals in this game. So I thought he was a nice little heat check candidate here for me. Yeah, no, I think that's a

solid choice. I probably have the detriment of studying him too hard now for the past season as well, right? So I, you know, I could see, and this is certainly not a thing on him, he was outstanding in this series, particularly under the circumstances. You know, you could still see the things that he had to continue to work on through this past season. But yeah, I mean, what cracks me up, too, is he scores that second empty net goal. And you can tell he's still jacked because it's like his third NHL score of his career. But the team's now, it's like embarrassing. So he kind of goes to celebrate and then he's like, oh, maybe I should just be quiet about this. But yeah, an outstanding debut by him. I love it. Biggest that guy. Do you want me to give you mine?

Yeah, mine are kind of sad and depressing. Adam Clintonning for me because I'm a huge Adam Clintoning fan. I remember just back in the day he's a second round pick. He basically puts up huge offensive numbers everywhere he's played in the NCAA

and the HL. It's crazy that he's still only 27 years old because he's played for seven NHL teams and he's never played multiple seasons with one NHL team. He's basically just every single year moved along.

He's played it. nearly 400 AHL games for his career, he's bounced around. But he makes these two brilliant passes on the second goal, where one is like kind of unintentional bank pass off the backboards, and then he threads the needle cross seam for a tap-in, or leading to a tap-in on the second try. And you sort of see that, like, beautiful puck-moving ability that you thought you were going to get with him

when he was putting up these huge offensive numbers and the lower levels. But for whatever reason, there's certain guys like that where those traits just don't translate. to the next level and he's never been able to have a sustained NHL run with a team. And I don't know what the explanation is, but it just hasn't happened for him. And if you would have told me, you know, five, six years ago, that was going to be the case. I wouldn't have believed you because I thought he had a really bright future in the league. Yeah.

And particularly this season, I mean, Columbus was besieged by injuries and he did not, he got called up, but never saw a second of ice time, which again, you know, you perform like he did, particularly in those playoffs and then not to get a sniff, it's, it's a strange, it's a strange one, but that's definitely a good, that's a good call. Mine are, minor, minor a little bit more depressing from a Columbus perspective. Right. First, and this is more on the series as a whole, but Josh Anderson basically did not play this year for all intents and purposes due to injury. And to see how dominant he was in this series. I was just kind of, I was sitting here with my husband. And I just looked, I'm like, my God, was Josh Anderson just impressive in this postseason?

So that was a guy that stood out. And Brandon Dubinsky, too, for me, because we haven't seen them literally since the preseason. So those two, and this might have been aged badly as well, but you know, Ryan Zingle, perhaps the only thing that fizzled in all the decisions that the blue jackets made. And I don't know that he's necessarily blown the doors off in Carolina either. but they showed him late in the game before a faceoff. And I was like, oh, oh, yeah, Ryan Zingle was out there. It's true. Yeah, with Josh Anderson, I had him for Apex Mountain, Josh Anderson's trade value.

Because at this time, like, I mean, he's flying in this game and this series. He has 27 goals this year. Yeah, this year, just the season from Melli plays 26 games as the one goal shoots 1.6%. And he's in this weird spot. There's so many, you know, more impactful things to consider in terms of when the league, when the NHL is going to come back and what's going to happen with the CPA and how much money there is going to be and how they're going to figure all that out. But for him, he's an RFA, but I think he's entering his last year of RFA.

And he had kind of contentious reported negotiations with the team the last time. And he wound up signing his deal into October at the time. And he was underpaid. And I think he certainly is going to look to recoup some of that money at some point. but he has basically no leverage at this point and it's just such a weird he was a highly talked about name around the trade deadline in terms of potential

guy who could be moved but it's just so tough to figure out both with his health where he's at right now especially considering the circumstances but also what's going to happen what his future holds how much he's going to get paid it's kind of a strange spot for him to be in but in this game I mean he has that one short-hander play

where you just see that net drive and he literally takes the net off and he similarly scored a short-handed goal that was huge in that rally in game one. And so, yeah, it's kind of the past year. It certainly didn't go the way you would have thought of based on how he was playing in this series. Yeah, I mean, then that's, you know, you see it even in this game. I mean, he was doing it all series, but his role on the four check. And then, you know, he does, he has that huge short-handed chance, even in the second period with just over three minutes to go in game four.

I mean, and that's he and Cam Atkinson are what make that power kill, that aggressive, offensively minded penalty kill sing. And so to watch to watch them be at the height of their powers are just like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, those guys. I'm glad you brought up Dubinsky because my biggest that guys were Ryan Callahan and Brandon Dubinsky. Because there's this late 2000s, early 2010s, Rangers symmetry there. And they're both fourth liners in this one. neither guy played this year. Callahan's not going to play anymore. Dubinsky will still see what the future holds for him.

He still has one year left on his deal. But yeah, and Callahan only played in the final two games of this series and wasn't really a factor. It wasn't really a factors. They're clearly laboring physically. But yeah, both guys were so fun to watch earlier in their career. And then it's kind of sad to watch at this point.

It just kind of reminds you that father time is undefeated, but especially it's a kind of a cautionary tale for players who play that more physical brand of hockey, how it can take its toll on your body. Absolutely. Okay, Doc and Eddie's commentary corner. I have the most notes in this category that I have of any for this podcast. So the listener should strap in. This is going to be a long one.

But yeah, so we did the NBC feed with John Fawson and Pierre McGuire. We've already alluded to some classic McGuire comments. I thought the one, when you get to this point of the series, it's not an analytic sport. It's a character sport. It's a classic one. Pierre has his volume and energy cranked up on this one. to, I don't know what level it is, but it's beyond maximum where I didn't know a human

being could make that type of noise. But I think, you know, part of it is, and I guess I think it's a testament to the Columbus crowd where I think he literally has to yell because he can't hear a single thing because the crowd behind them is so loud. So he's just like, he's yelling to try to match it. And I will say, it adds to the theatrical experience of this game. I think a more subdued commentator might not lend itself to this because it was just such a crazy experience. And I think it's a nice little time capsule of where we're at at this point.

Oh, yeah. And you know, you mentioned this already, but I was just laughing when Cooper challenges that power play goal by Cam Atkinson for off sides. And Pierre is losing his mind. And he literally yells, get into it, man. I mean, it's he was, but it was true because, you know, that, was that energy that was lacking around Tampa the entire time. And so to finally see anything from that bench was just insane. But I think Pierre was like ready to like get out of his skin. He was so jacked up. And I had from him to classic Pierre trench work, heavy shifts. Both teams were doing that according. He loved that. He had that the Tampa Bay can't get through the structure. That cracked me up for some reason. Go ahead. No, you go for it. My favorite though. And we talked.

about this off the start is towards the end of the game, he finally says it's a credit to the adjustments by John Tortorella. I'm like, John Torrella didn't make hardly any adjustments here. I don't know what you're talking about. But that was why the Blue Jackets won the series. I love it. Yeah, I think it was early on. He goes, if Tampa Bay can't figure out this forecheck, they're going to get pile driven tonight. He's like so adamant. I mean, it's and, and, and, and, he has this moment where um you know boon jenner has this like zone entry and then kind of like a shot from the perimeter but it's a tricky shot that vasselovsky barely fights off and he goes that was a one on two there why would they let him get in the line step up like he's like he's like he's like just he's yelling at the lightning like i love it because so often the criticism of pier is like he has these uh you know bonds with people in the game and so he never wants to kind of hurt anyone's feelings. And so instead he's just citing all these irrelevant stats. But in this game, he's like, he's really going after the lightning. It's, it's kind of, it's kind of startling to watch.

I mean, he was really just letting them have it. If Tampa doesn't figure out this four check quick. They're going to get piles driven tonight. They have no answer for the Columbus fortune. Look at Columbus. They're coming 200 feet. A great short side shoot in by Riley Nash. Create a foot race situation. That's a one-off two. No communication between Chernats and it. Buteran, Panera keeps the play a line. Back to the point, boom, shot on goal. That's not good enough from Tampa, not nearly good enough. They knew the adjustments they had to make.

And I will, as much as we pick on Pierre, deservedly, I will give it to him because after Panarin scores that empty netter that basically seals the series, his quote, I actually did think encapsulated why this whole thing went down the way it did. And he says, Columbus had the will, Panarin had the skill. And that's why Panarin was so important to Columbus. And that quote, for all the other stuff that Pierre says, I do think he nailed it with that one. We're being too positive.

Let's bring us back to reality here. He has a sequence where, and I forgot this one. I remember I tweeted at the time and it was just so good, but he goes, people forget Ryan Callahan had 50 goals playing in junior for the Guelph storm. Now, for context, he's talking about a 21 year old overager at the time. And this was in 2005. Like, it's, it's such a, it's such a hilarious blend of an outdated stat that doesn't have context, but it's like major junior and it's, it's great. I love it.

It's somehow supposed to convince us that Ryan Callahan at this point of his career is actually more skilled than we're giving credit for. Yeah. Well, and then he says to your point of like just trying to will Tampa Bay to win. And Vasilevsky was so good in this game. And he says, don't forget the Vasalesky saves. And Forreland goes, we won't. Yeah, yeah. You're going to remind us.

I mean, on a related note, I don't think I ever want to hear him say that one had some odor on it ever again. There's something about it that is such an off-putting way to say that it was a bad goal. But, yeah, no, this was, I mean, it was a good commentary crew because obviously Foresland is one of the best in the game. But we talked about Pierre's energy. And they kind of, they had a nice little rapport here as well. I felt like they were kind of like feeding off of each other. And, you know, at one point, Forsland makes a comment. or Pierre makes a comment about how, like,

they're talking about historical upsets or whatever, and they're talking about, like, a game, a series from, like, the early 1900s or something. And then Pierre says, oh, like, you called that one, didn't you, John? And then John goes back and says, oh, it was a tryout. And I didn't get my real shot until the 90s or something.

I'd have to pay my dues. And they had, like, a fun little rapport there as well. It was a nice little while John's great as being kind of like a straight man where he's just calling the game, but he also has a bit of charm and fun to him, and whereas Pierre is just, like, completely going forward with his piercedic. And I'm, and I'll give this to Foresland, too, because I'm always a fan of this in key moments.

You know, Foreslum basically shuts it down for the final 35 seconds. He says, let's just take it in. And even more credit to him, because there is an empty net goal after that. And he calls it, but then is quiet again. And I just, I love when significant moments happen that way, even like you said, now that we know we may not have crowd experiences for quite some time. I thought that was really neat, particularly when it got upended by there being something happening in the game. I appreciated that he and Pierre both handled it that way. Absolutely. Yes. There's

something to be said for just letting the action kind of speak for itself and letting it marinate. Most unanswerable questions. Oh, well, I shared a couple of mine already. What if there had been a game five? You know, I again, Tampa Bay could have come back. What if Hedman's healthy? that could have been a game changer. Does that Savard goal happen? Does he even try that move? I don't know. But my biggest, what if my unanswerable is,

what if Panarin had stayed? What if this series and the team doing what it did had swayed any of those free agents? And Panarin being the key one for me because I think, you know, this team needs offense as it's built right now. Panarin's obviously a game changer. he's elite. They need someone like that now. And what if he had stayed? What if this had changed

one of those players' minds? Especially with the year Panarin had this year for the Rangers. For sure. Deserved to be in the hard conversation. It's kind of the opposite, I guess, in a way. But how close was Yarmou to going the other direction and trading Panarin and or Babowski leading up to the deadline instead? That's a good one. You know, we're never going to know that for sure, I think. I think it's a fascinating question. And, you know, you look at it because we kind of forget now, I guess, but I was looking back at it.

And so the final week of the season, there's two wildcard spots up for grabs. And Montreal, Carolina, and Columbus all have played 80 games, so they have two each left, and they're all right there with 94 or 95 points. And Columbus winds up winning out. They beat the Rangers and the Sends in the final weekend. And that Rangers game in particular was highly sketchy because Pichnevich ties it up late and then they wound up winning in shootout. But, you know, that certainly could have, that's a great sort of what if where that certainly could have played out differently, potentially in those final two games. And imagine if this team misses the playoffs.

Not only do we miss out on this entire series, obviously, but it winds up being this like highly talked about sort of colossal mistake by Yarmo where he trades a bunch of assets, keeps these two high-fires free agents, trades a bunch of future assets for Matt Dushan and Ryan Dzingal and doesn't make the playoffs. And it becomes this whole other historical anecdote for an entirely different reason. So I think that's a great what if. Yeah, absolutely agree. And I was thinking too, particularly at the trade deadline this year, you know, what if other teams had bought into the approach? What if another GM had just said, you know what, we're going for it? I would have loved, you know, we talk about trends that take off for the wrong reasons in this league all the time.

just for the sheer sport of it and the spectacle of it, I would have loved for another organization to say, you know what, we're going to try it too. Yep. Yeah, I completely agree. I'm all for that. I have another one.

So it's about Tampa Bay. It's part A, like how and when will they get over the hump? I think it's unfortunate for them, obviously the history of, you know, back-to-back game seven, Eastern Conference losses, the Pittsburgh and Washington, then this collapse, before the quarantine, they were, for my money, the best team in the league,

and I would have had them as a favorite again heading into the postseason. And you can make a case they're the team that's kind of the most, the hardest hit by this uncertainty. They're going to get Stamco's back if the games ever resume. But the potential ramifications of flat cap and not going up the way they thought it would. You know, contract decisions, they have to pay Sorrelia and Surgachev. We don't know when the draft is going to be, and we all assumed that they would make a couple, you know, trades at the draft for picks,

similar to what they did with J.T. Miller last year where they would trade a couple guys and clear up that money. And so there's so much uncertainty hanging around them. And then part B to that is when do the lightning reach that sort of Washington Capitol's point of us just being like, this team and organization has been through so much that we all kind of want to see them win in a way, just because it's like anyone. that has an ounce of mercy in their heart is like they've been through so much already. They deserve this. Like historically, they're an important team in the grand scheme of things for the NHL.

They deserve a title. And I think little capital certainly reached that. I think everyone other than maybe I guess Penguins fans and Golden Knights fans were happy when Ovechkin won the cup, finally lifted it, had his celebrations after that summer. And I wonder if the lightning, maybe they already are at that point. And if they're not, when that's going to happen? Yeah, I mean, you know, these are these are the teams that you talk about 10, 20 years from now. The best team is never to win a cup, right, potentially.

And that's, it's one of the big things about this season. I'm with you. I mean, how many, how many last games have we seen? How many last performances as a team have we seen if this season doesn't resume? And it will be insane if this core, this Tampa Bay Corps, doesn't come away with a championship. because they, even this year, last year, they've been on the cusp and they've been one of the most talented. They've been on the cusp, rightly so, for so long. If they don't, it's going to be very, very interesting.

Well, yeah, and it's like, how do we remember these historically great teams? Like, a great example of this is in basketball with the Warriors when they had that 73 win season, and then they lose and blow the lead to the calves in the final. Similar to this, like, for all intents of purposes, this lightning team should be remembered as one of the most dominant teams ever. Kucharal, 128 points. He has 64 of 171, 171, first place, hard votes, and no one even questions it.

Vasilevsky wins the Vesna. John Cooper finishes second in Jack Adams voting. Headman finishes third in Norris voting. They have 340 goals scores, 62 regular season wins. I mean, all of it is just unheard of, and ultimately they're going to wind up being remembered

for one bad week of hockey. And that's kind of crazy to think about. Absolutely. It is. I mean, and that's as much as it's that, I mean, this is what Columbus will hang their hat on for, hopefully they're bound for better things. I'm sure the organization wants this not to be the biggest accomplishment, but it will be, I mean, Columbus fans are never going to let Tampa Bay fans forget it. That's for sure. Yep. Okay, here's one final unanswerable question. Maybe it is answerable, but just why aren't Seth Jones's underlying numbers as a, as we clearly see him to be just watching him, but also if you break it down on a more, you know, individual level in terms of individual skills with micro stats and with tracking, he comes out as one of the best defense in the league.

I think he should have been a Norris finalist two years ago. But since then, there's been this kind of strange divide where he's not a bad player by any means, but it's not nearly as elite as you think it would be based on how I think we generally think of a misdial. as being like one of the best, whatever, 25 and under a defenseman in the league? This is such a good question. You know, I do think, and you saw it, I think there are some numbers that can point to what makes him so good.

And this goes back to the original discussion we had about, are we truly getting good comprehensive measures to measure any player, regardless of position, but particularly defensive players? There's a couple wrinkles there. His transition stats, particularly for this team while he's been a part of the person. of it are top-notch. And you saw that when he went down with injury, that was when the blue jackets, the whole transition game fell apart for them.

So he's got the transition stats. He's got good retrieval stats. He's huge on the blue line keeping the puck in. Coach Brad Shaw has, he had developed this before Seth Jones came to the blue jackets, but he has a tool he calls the puck touch sheet. And Seth Jones continually is off the charts in those measures and how he calculated. that. So I think there are some things that we're looking at, excuse me, that we're not looking at because we're not able to quickly all the time that might lend itself to a deeper discussion there. And I also

think it comes down to his role. He plays with Zach Wrenzky. Zach Wrenski is one of the most offensively minded defensemen in the league. And Seth, and this isn't, he says this not in a bad way, but if Zach's going to jump, Seth is going to stay back. And so Seth is going to happily accept a more defensively responsible type of play. And you see it when he doesn't. When he's sick of things, there were a couple times this season where he was just like,

you know what, screw it. I'm going to score the goal because nobody else is. You see him turn it on. But I think it's also in part the role that he is accepting for himself to ensure that the team as a whole will succeed on the ice.

That's really well said. Yeah. I mean, this could be an entire podcast of its own. Oh, yeah. I didn't mean to open up a whole can of where I was but it's such a, it's such an interesting, uh,

conversation because I think we'd all agree that he's an amazing player and, and does so many things as well. But it's, it's, it's one of those, and this is, this is the beauty of, of,

um, having different metrics to look at and have these conversations, rather than just being like, oh, this player sucks and he has bad numbers. Everyone agrees. Right. This player is great and has great numbers.

Everyone agrees on that. Like, it's, it's good to make you think about why certain things are, are happening and sort of what goes into, uh, our player evaluation. Apex Mountain.

Yes. I'm going to comfortably say there's no one on Tampa Bay that is under Apex in that series. It's easy for that side. But let's rattle through Columbus. Who do you have as like your most Alibi as Apex Mountain players or management people or coaching? Oh, that's a good one. I didn't think of that. My most, my Apex guys that I listed, you mentioned one of them, Matt Dushain.

We talked about Josh Anderson. We talked about David Savard. and I also had here, particularly, again, it hasn't been a long time, but it's been a year, Sergei Babrovsky. I thought he was excellent. I thought he turned a corner that was important for him from a narrative, from a career perspective. And he struggled since. And there's a million reasons for that besides just him. But those were the four I had on my apex list. Yeah, Matthew Shane, you know he comes into this with the worst possible rep in terms of Colorado after he leaves becomes this like up-and-coming exciting team

they hand over the keys to Nathan McKinnon they never look back Ottawa when he arrives completely falls apart becomes the laughing stock of the league they wind up having to reconcile the fact that they traded a future unprotected first for him and then he comes to Columbus and he has four goals and 12 points in 23 games in the regular season with the Blue Jackets. And for him to rattle off a stretch here in the final three games where he has three goals and seven points, just dominates. He's the best player on the ice in game too, which is, as we allude to, a pivotal game

in this series. And he winds up getting paid $56 million by the creditors for it. So I think Matt Duchyne is clearly at his absolute apex. I think the Bobrovsky one is more nuanced because he's won multiple. Well, for sure. that Vezna's deservedly, and I think he's been a better goalie than he was at this point, but for him to bounce back after a shaky start-threat year where there's all these questions about him being in a contract year and what's going to happen, and he's 31,

and whenever players at that age and their performance dips, you start thinking whether their best days are behind them. And he rattles off a stretch after the all-star break here, where 26 games, 9-30-sa percentage, seven shutouts, and then he is a 9-25-sage percentage in 10 playoff games here. and he gets rid of a lot of sort of playoff demons where in a very small sample size he had never been able to get the job done for his teams dating back to his limited time with the flyers so um and he obviously similarly got paid as well by the uh by the panthers but yeah he was awesome in this series especially if you just remove that first period of game one where i think there was a lot of jitters

and i don't really know what was going on he was on top of his game for the rest of the series and and I think he's a really good candidate for Apex Mountain here. Columbus is a franchise, the Blue Jackets. Yep, yep, good call. You know, zero playoff series wins in franchise history, and then they get this done. I have, I think John Tortorella is an interesting one here because he's won two Jag Adams trophies,

and he won his cup in 04. But this feels like this sort of, I wonder if this is honestly the job he's the most proud of, if you gave him truth serum and you talk to him because he comes from this place where you and I have talked about this in the show before where things go so poorly during his one year in Vancouver and then he takes a year off and he's kind of a joke in hockey circles where things went so poorly and you're wondering whether the game is passed him by whether he can adapt whether he's got another run in him and I remember at the time and I'll completely confess to being wrong on this one

when they hired a mid-season in 2015 or whatever, I thought it was a pretty uninspired choice. And I thought it was a classic example of the NHL, just sort of recycling coaches and not trying something new. And instead, he comes in with this, like, fresh energy. He certainly can be grumpy at times and have that sort of a John Tortoella to him to become a trademark. But he also gets this team to buy in.

They're clearly under-men. and playing, again, the underdog role, but they're just playing so fast. They're playing such a tough kind of swarming a brand of hockey. And I thought it was a remarkable job. So I know it's crazy to say about a coach who has had the success he's had. He has, whatever, nearly 700 NHO wins to his name. But this was one of his finest jobs, I thought, considering all the circumstances. Yeah, I think it's a solid, solid call.

And I would only not put this as his apex because I think he's, He's arguably more proud of this season to date, given then, I mean, look, this series win was amazing and incredible and all the narratives of his former team and so on and so forth. But he has said how proud he is of this year's group when everyone counted them out, when, you know, quote unquote, all the skill leaves. Then they have 420 man games lost to injury this year. And he's, I mean, granted it's the team I cover, but. He's my pick for the Jack Adams this season as well.

And, but I think, you know, there's a shot two of him on the bench when after Panarin's goal. And you can just see how proud he is. And he wanted it for his team. And I think for him to see that said volumes about just what that whole moment and what had led up to that moment meant for him last year for sure. Yep. That's certainly the case. And it's funny because I remember when I had you all. on earlier, we were talking about their success this season. And I kind of lumped this series and

then what happened this year into one and kind of this whole apex for him. But even if you look at the underlying numbers of this series where it was so close, you know, the expected goals for were 10-8 for Columbus. The actual goals were 19-8, but a lot of that is just the empty netters. They scored. But basically, if you look at like the unblocked shot attempts, Tampa Bay looks much better, then you look at the attempts that actually made it through. It's closer. You look at the shots on goal that actually made it through it's closer and then you look at the high danger attempts and they're almost like 50-50 it's like that is exactly what we talked about where this with this system where they're not necessarily just sitting back and blocking shots in your conventional

defensive approach but they're in a much more aggressive way accomplishing a similar result where they're clearly trying to get certain shots for and against and they've executed it perfectly both in this series and the success they had of the season so I think I think it's kind of a trademark job that Tortorilla did in the grand scheme of things. I'm going to clip that quote because you just said it perfectly. I agree 100%. Stanfos wants to make a play, but he makes the play right over to Panarin. And Paneran says, thanks for coming.

The friend man delivers the Columbus. Look at that reaction. John Tororella is coaching staff. The Columbus Blue Jackets with 153 on the clock. have a five-free leave with a chance to march on tonight for the first time in franchise history. Okay, let's do who won the game. This is a tough one because there's obviously it's such a kind of team effort, right? Like we've talked about so many different contributors.

It's really tough to single out one. But when you think about this and the accomplishment of winning this series and sweeping the lightning, who won the game for you? So when I got to this one, I tried to not make it. mention people we'd already talked about. And so this is where I put Columbus, as opposed to on Apex Mountain. I put Columbus here. I thought that the organization won, the city one, the fans won. And then at a player level, again, I didn't want to re-mentioned someone else. Oliver Bjork Strand was a runner up here. But this is where I really categorized Alexander Texier's game. Because I think, you know, for all the things we already talked about, his performance, the experience of it,

getting that trust and confidence from the entire organization really and using that to come we you know covering this team and then seeing him over the summer and then seeing him this past season you really saw an evolution in him as both a player on on the ice and a person off the ice and I think that this was just such a huge launching pad for him that if I have to pick one who I haven't already mentioned I will pick him that's a good one. I had Yarmel kick a line and for this one just because he really, like, they reached this crossroads heading up to the trade line. You're wondering which way they're going to go.

It's such a tough decision. It could go so horribly wrong as we talked about if they missed the playoffs. And he just stares down the barrel of gun, basically, and just not only keeps Panarin Bobrovsky, which is risky, but then doubles down and trades a bunch of picks for guys who wind up, mostly Matthew Shane, but play such a pivotal role in this. And obviously it's motivated by the fact that they hadn't had. the playoff success and they were so close that you kind of had to go for it otherwise what kind of message are you sending to your fan base but they executed it perfectly and it wound up working out

and hopefully it does lead to more sort of similar copycat aggressive moves by GMs in the years to come so i thought for him uh to execute this was was world class and uh he did a masterful job and for him um i think the most the biggest accolay for him is that he's uh he's won the uh he's won this game for the PDO cast. So, yeah, it's, no, this was a fun one. I'm really glad we got to do this. I mean, it was, I'm sure lightning fans won't want to rewatch this, but it's just, it's a really entertaining game.

There's so much happening beyond just the final scoreline. Like, there's so many twist and turns. I highly recommend anyone that hasn't really watched it, rewatched it or thought about it since to take a two hours out of the day to go back and go back and watch it at some point. Absolutely. It was even, even as someone who covered it and watched it. and watched it, you know, watching it, you know, knowing what we were going to look for and

really see what stood out, what were turning points. It was really fun for me, too, to take it in. And in a weird way, almost as an even more unbiased observer, if that makes sense. But just to see how this all went down, it was cool. And I think it's one of those moments that makes hockey the game that we love. And even lightning fans, maybe with time, can enjoy it a little bit. Yeah, maybe. I think similar to Capitals fans, once they finally get over the the hump hopefully and win a cup they can go back and kind of remember the dues they paid to get there. Allison, this was a blast. You're the best as always. Plug some stuff because I know you've been hard of work and been keeping really busy during this quarantine. Well, this has been a blast too.

Thank you for having me. You can find me on Twitter at Allison L. All my work gets posted there. I'm also part of the Too Many Men podcast, which you can find at 2 underscore much, Man on Twitter, and we try and post weekly. And then during this quarantine time, I'm proud to be working with Megan Cheika and we put on weekly hockey analytics night in Canada, where we focus on different hockey topics. We've even started to branch out to other sports, to learn things from those sports that we can apply to hockey. And you can follow that on Twitter under the hashtag H-A-N-I-C. Beautiful. Well, thanks for all the hard work. Thanks for keeping us entertained and educated during these tricky times.

And this was a blast. We'll hopefully get to do something again soon down the road. So yeah, thanks for chatting. And let's have you on the podcast again at some point here down the road. Sounds good. And this is great. This is awesome content you're putting out and keeping us all entertained. So thank you for all the hard work you're doing.

Cheers, Allison. I just wanted to thank everyone for listening to today's show. And to remind you that it would be really appreciated if you could go take a minute to leave the podcast, a rating and review. goes a long way these days and means a lot both personally to me but also to the health and status of the show moving forward so hopefully you're enjoying these rewatchables and hopefully they're providing a nice little welcome distraction i know that uh some of you aren't particularly keen on rewatching old games that you know the results to but i promise you especially with these

games that we've been kind of strategically picking for the show uh we're doing so because there is so many little hidden nuggets that you probably didn't really notice on the first go around that you'll really appreciate rewatching it. So whether you go back and actually watch the full broadcast on NHL TV like Alice and I talked about or just skim through the highlights on YouTube, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I'm sure there's going to be some stuff you didn't notice before that you'll really appreciate now.

For those of you who wanted to get ahead for the next rewatchables and prepare for what we're going to be doing moving forward, we've currently got Game 3 of the 2018 series between the Jets and the Predators scheduled for next week. So we've got that to look forward to, and we're going to keep doing these rewatchables. for the foreseeable future. So if you've got any recommendations for games you'd like for us to do, we'll definitely take that into account. I've got some fun ones planned ahead,

but we can never have too many options. And keep in mind, we're going to be trying to do games that are typically more modern, mostly just because some of the older games, especially with the copies that are up on YouTube, don't really make for good viewing because they're so great, and you can barely see the puck. And while it's kind of fun to be nostalgic and see some of the vintage games and some of the grades from past eras,

in terms of just sitting down and rewatching it for two hours, it's not the most viewer-friendly product. So just keep that in mind. But until then, hopefully all you stay safe. We'll enjoy and watch some old hockey with us. And we will be back next week. The Hockey P.D.Ocast with Dim Philipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at SoundCloud.com. slash Hockey PDOCast.