The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 359: Unstoppable Force vs. Immovable Object

Episode Date: September 24, 2020

Mike Johnson joins the show to discuss the first three games of the Stanley Cup Final, the adjustments Tampa Bay made after a slow start, how dominant the top players have been for the Lightning, and what the Stars can do to counter. The topics we cover include:1:00 Empty arena games4:30 Lightning offense vs. Stars defense10:00 How Tampa Bay broke through offensively18:00 Adjustments Stars can make30:00 The good and the bad of John Klingberg37:00 Acquisitions of Coleman and Goodrow46:00 Best Conn Smythe casesEvery episode of the show is available on iTunes, Spotify, Soundcloud, and wherever else you may typically get your podcasts. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated, especially the ones of the 5-star variety!See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Dimitri Filipovich, and joining me is a guest who, over the past couple years. It's been an annual tradition I have them on. We deep dive playoff series and I'm glad we finally got the sneak one in this post season as we're winding down here in the Stanley Cup final. It's my good buddy Mike Johnson. Mike, what's going on? Not too much. How are we doing? I'm in Edmonton. Nice. And I am in

I'm not in the bubble, but I'm in the arena so I get a firsthand view. I've not seen any games in person until the final here. So trying to absorb what it feels like to play games of this magnitude in arenas that are empty. But it's been it's been interesting. It's been, I give players a lot of credit because it's probably not been

an easy couple months run here that they're coming to the end of. Yeah, your bubble adjacent. Well, I'm really curious for your take then because you obviously got to see the first couple rounds of the postseason at home watching on TV and then now you're actually in the building. What's the vibe like in terms of the differences between sort of the broadcast presentation we're seeing as the final product on TV versus what you're actually hearing and seeing on the ice? Is it dramatically different or is it kind of a similar experience? I think for the experience of the game, the broadcast on television feels really quite normal.

I mean, you get used to seeing the tarps over the stands or the video boards that aren't usually there, but the way they cut it, the way they directed, it comes to look and sound quite normal. You know, in the big moments, some overtime games where, you know, if there are fans and the fans, it would have been something special, but for the most part, it felt normal. Even, I'm in three games in here to the final, and it still doesn't feel quite normal.

Now, they do play a sort of ambient background din of crowd-tight noise throughout the entire game while the game's going on. So it's not dead silent, where you can only hear, you know, sticks, sitting and skates and pucks banging around the ice and the voices as well. I think the guy, whoever's in charge of the ooze and the ah button, he's actually quite good. or she or she. Like, they time it really well, and they don't oversell it for things that they shouldn't in.

And there was a little bit more, and we've kind of read some commentary on what guys are saying on the ice. You can hear that a little bit, but not too much. It's just when they come up for warm-up, I harken back to, like, my days in Tampa and Phoenix when we play an exhibition game in Fort Myers, and you go out for warm-up, and there'd be 200 people there.

Like, that's kind of what it feels like, except, you know, it's for the Stanley Cup. So that part is different, but it kind of sounds similar, except in the big moments, when the crowd would take over. Right, yeah, especially I imagine with big momentum changes or if a team is making a comeback and they were in front of their home crowd or kind of lead to a different result.

It doesn't play for seven months and walks off the bench and scores a goal. You can imagine if that would have happened in Tampa. It would have been glorious. It would have been a soundtrack and visuals forever for Stephen Samco is in Tampa. But, you know, it was a great moment, but it would have been it would have been something pretty special if it was done in Tampa.

Right. Yeah, to tackle your point, though, just watching from at home, there's certainly been moments where I've forgotten that we were playing bubble hockey during a pandemic and there was no one in the building. Like, you just kind of get the tunnel vision

and you just, the sounds sound fairly similar. So I haven't experienced it really. But, okay, so MJ, today we're going to talk about this series, stuff to watch what we're seeing, what teams should be doing differently, adjustments. I love that we've already seen

sort of that back and forth of Dallas coming out and winning game one and sort of stifling the Tampa Bay Lightning offense and then the Lightning making adjustments and now heading into game four, it's up to Dallas to see if they can kind of counterpunch there. And there's no one in the entire world. I'd rather be talking X's and O's and nerdy matchup details with you. So I'm really looking forward to getting into this. So as the guest, I'll set the scene here for you and I'll just, I'll give you the floor. So what's the sort of main matchup or, you know, stylistic component or, you know, X's and O's thing you're seeing through these first three games, it's really caught your eye and how it impacts the sort of outcome of these games.

So, well, there's quite a few to digest, which is fun, which is fun. But the main one that I've seen, and it kind of reared its ugliest head, certainly in the second period of game three, was that what Dallas has been really good at in the playoffs so far is that they will concede shots, but they will concede shots that they want you to take. And they will not give you the shot that you want to take. And they'll give you a point shot, and they'll give you possession on the outside.

You can ask Vegas, they piled up shot after shot at the shot, but they never were able to create scenes, lateral passes, slot plays, and give kind of Anton Hudobin, who's played really well, give Hudobin and the defensive zone coverage system of Dallas much trouble. and I watched the first game in the series and Tampa did the same

and they didn't give them much trouble either and I was very impressed on how organized Dallas was in their own end how they could withstand 30 seconds of pressure and not break down like it's easy to play defense when you get to your spot for five or ten seconds but once the fuck starts moving around a little bit

and you got to switch and you got to communicate and make some read that's when bad things happen to defensive teams and Dallas hasn't broken down very much at all in the playoffs. And what I see happening in where Dallas, and I, you know, it was really bad in the second period.

But, you know, there's been moments in the game where it's happened where Dallas doesn't look as organized when Tampa starts to roll, especially the first line. And I think their ability to maintain speed off cycle and broken play. So it's like, you know, defenders, they want to get your face in the glass.

They start pushing and shoving and the puck's in your skates, and you're kind of kicking along. But nothing really is happening, right? It's very stagnant. And when I watch Tampa play that first line, Kutraff and point, a lot's quite strong at it as well, is that even when you think you have them, they kind of spin out of the defensive zone checking with pace. And so you don't really ever get a slow thing down. I think also Tampa started to implement activating the defense, So the defense are sliding further down to the hash marks.

They're going in behind the net. They're switching sides. They're going laterally. And it is causing Dallas problems in how to defend, and especially defend that first line. And I didn't know if a team would be able to do that because Vegas is a good offense of the team, and they could not do that.

But Tampa is, and that first line, is almost doing it at will. And that, to me, is going to be a problem unless Dallas sorts it out. I don't know how you do. I mean, I can ask John Klingberg or Hayskin and, you know, a sticking pin Kutraoff. They're trying. They've been told that before.

They know they're supposed to do that, but sometimes those players are just so good. It's hard to do. And I see that, I just, when you watch it up top and you see it and the amount of motion and the continuous motion and the fact that it's also interchangeable and seems like Tampa is growing in confidence

and what they're doing with the puck in the offensive zone, that is what Tampa is loving to do, and that's where Dallas has to figure out how do we counter that. when that first line's on the ice where we're not putting ourselves in spots where asked our goal to make great saves. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. I think heading into the series,

the thing that I was most interested to see how it would play out. I mean, with all these matchups, it's really kind of this chess match of who's going to dictate the terms of play and who's going to make the opposition uncomfortable and make them play something that they ideally wouldn't. And it was like this perfect matchup of Tampa Bay and their slot offense. I think they're the best team in the league at getting the puck into the middle of the ice into those high danger areas versus the stars who essentially are probably the best team in the league

at completely erasing that middle of dice and forcing everything to the perimeter and everything to the points it really was hockey's version of the kind of like this immovable force versus this unstoppable object and just tracking it through the first three games you know in game one which the stars won and kind of held the Tampa Bay lightning offense in check even in that third period where everyone was citing the shot on goal disparity and how the entire game was played yeah It was 22 shots on goal. There were only four high-danger attempts there for Tampa Bay. And Dallas has shown, like, they're comfortable playing that game, especially with the lead all night long.

They don't mind it at all. And then you get the game two and three. So in game two, Tampa Bay is all the way up to 14 high-danger attempts as opposed to just the six they had in game one. In game three, they only had eight total, but pretty much all of them were in that dominant second period. And they sort of just were content playing out the clock in the third. But that's really been the story to me here where Tampa Bay has been able to, to break through and get into the sort of interior of that star's defensive shell. So you talk about a few things there in terms of what they've done and the adjustments

they've made. Let's specifically key in on that because it's so fascinating to me because you know what Tampa Bay wants to do, right? Just watching Kutjav, and I'm sure seeing it from up above in the press box live is really hammers that point even more where he's just so good at kind of getting lost in the offensive zone and moving around. and all of a sudden the puck comes to him, and the defense doesn't really know where he's going to be at any given point,

and that makes him so dangerous because it's so unpredictable. And it feels like that entire offense now has reached that highest level of hockey chemistry, where they're just all constantly moving, and they're running this motion offense, and they know where they're going to be, but the opposing defense has no idea where they're going to be. So it's a pretty special thing to watch. But what's Tampa Bay doing to kind of break through and get into that shell?

Is it as simple as sort of just playing their game and kind of maybe shortening the passes and trying to make it easier and simplify it that way? Or is there something else? Because it seems so obvious that it makes you wonder

how the opponents before this series weren't able to do it to Dallas, although obviously it's easier so than done in Tampa Bay has a special level of skill. Well, if we're talking about in the offensive zone, I think that line specifically

that we're focusing on, I think you have to appreciate that a couple of those play. Plott's a really good player, and he's playing a lot of confidence. But, you know, Point, I think, there's so much for that offense because, you know, when you initially get the puck in the offensive zone, when teams have numbers back, there's always going to be a moment of confrontation.

And there's always going to be a moment where, you know, the defensive team usually wins those because it's harder to control the puck than kind of knock it loose and make nothing happen. And Braden Point wins so many of those moments of confrontation, mostly with his leg. He doesn't stick handle around guys, but he's very good at kind of getting hit and sliding by guys and kind of rolling off check. And for the initial stick and pin, it kind of ends there. It rarely ends with Bradford Point.

So I think that's how he is different than, you know, Paul Stasi. You know, he can keep plays alive, even though he's being a check and start the motion office, before that's what we're going to call it. Dean Smith would be happy right now. You look at Kutrov, he's awesome to watch because, you know, he's a, he's a, King of getting lost and you think, well, he's just floating around and skating around and not really engaged. But there's an offensive genius to what he's doing and that he's timing it so that he pops in the right spot at the right moment with a little space, with a little time, a little speed to create something different. Now, he has the great vision and a crazy hands to pass it.

And the one thing he does really well, better than most and better than Max Patcheretti, is when the puck comes to him in a tight spot, he's really good. good at one, two quick moves to create space. Now, he doesn't skate through checks as a point does, but like, you know, an inside cut tivet off the wall, you're not expecting, like, where'd that come from? But all of a sudden he stepped in the middle of the ice and got space. Or he knows the guy's coming. He gives you a shoulder fake, one quick little toe drag, and he's shaking him to give himself.

He's better at that than most. And then Andre Palat, you know, he brings a weight to his game where when he bangs into you, it's heavy. When he, like, leans on your stick, it's heavy. and he forces a lot of loose pucks where those two guys can kind of swoop in and then start doing their stuff. Then you put in, so those guys are doing all that. And I think, you know, point skating ability while being checked and Kutuross, kind of vision in hands to never really ever get checked tightly are things that most teams don't have.

That's why they're special players. And Dallas is struggling, handling that. That you put Surgachev, headman, even Kevin Shattonker, who play like they have free reigns, in the offensive zone. They've got to go wherever they want. Because they trust the guys who have the puck and they trust their ability to skate back and get back in plays. And all of a sudden, Dallas is on their heels where they haven't

been in series past. Yeah, I mean, that movement in the offensive zone, I actually saw a really interesting sort of charting of it, Sean Ferris on Twitter put together. He's kind of mapped out the 5-1-5 shot assists for both teams and sort of where the pass is coming from and where it's setting it up. And for Tampa Bay, it's so clear that you see

in game one, Dallas was doing such a good job of basically making them go low to high and get it to the point, and they're going to live with that all day. And then if you go to game two and three, game two especially, so many of those passes were all of a sudden going into the middle of the ice in high danger areas. And so I think not to discredit what Anton Hudobin has done this postseason, because it's clearly amazing that he's been able to handle this workload in terms of the volume of games and also the quantity of shots and done it all in his sort of a dramatic flare that's been so fun to walk. watch and he's so easy to root for, but behind this defense, if you know where the shots coming from and you can just focus on the shooter, most NHO goalies will stop it. In this case, if all of a sudden

there's a pass going laterally, as we saw, obviously with that highlight real power play goal in game two where Kuturov's bread and butter cross seam to plat and he basically had all day to shoot it into an empty net, all of a sudden that is much more difficult. And so that's something that's really stuck out to me too. And it's cool to see that the data actually backs it up, where Tampa Bay has all of a sudden done such a good job of making both the defense and Hudobin move much more while getting the park closer and closer to the net. Yeah, and I think, and you're absolutely correct, the numbers back up exactly what you're saying, you're trying to appreciate that why in game one, especially the low, like the, the wingers for Dallas,

were so much better position to kind of prevent those, those theme passes, those plays in the slot. and I think it's because the activity of the defensemen, like in game one, a lot of shots were from the point. Like the tempo was stationary. They're guys who get their defensemen, we get the puck of the blue line, and they bomb it in on net and take their chances. Games two and three, that's not been the case.

And also, there's been a way greater degree of high roles, like high movement by the forwards, where they're coming out across the top of the circles, and they're coming out to the blue line, and they're making those wingers, which I used to be one, you're like, okay, am I going to step down into the scene and take, you know, Kutraff cutting through here? Am I going to hang on with my point man? And then my point man's going somewhere.

I think willingness to exploit the top half of the offensive zone by the forwards has opened up so much of the room to make passes into the slot. And it's been really well done. It's been really well executed. And it's not, you know, we're talking about the first line primarily. But even, you know, you see the third line, you know, they get. at Pucks and Millie Ice like that, theirs is mostly borne off four checks and turnover. It's not so much rush plays or controlled cycles. But, you know, they've also done a better job of moving around the offensive zone to create

the chances that they want to take. Well, the thing is, like, I think for Tampa Bay there was certainly, you know, the easy thing to do is just point to the rest or how quick the turnaround was from the end of the Eastern Conference final to game one of this series. But I think part of it was also just kind of a recalibration where the stars and the islanders both do a lot of things similarly and have great defensive results to match. But I think especially with how the stars sometimes play when they are firing on all cylinders, when they are getting the puck in and forechecking, and Rupa Hints and others are just tenaciously winning puck battles.

I think there was like a bit of a speed element there to sort of recalibrate and it's helped in that regard. But I guess, you know, because the lightning, no matter what, they've certainly made adjustments, especially on the power play where, you know, they moved circuit chip off of that, basically left flank, shooters spot and put Palat there. and it opens up some easy goals for them in that regard. But beyond just those little kind of adjustment, X, as the Lightning will ultimately sort of unapologetically play their game no matter what. And they should because it's gotten them this far and they've had such great results

and they have the horses to do it. With this Stars team, they have that bread and butter of theirs defensively, but we've also seen three different approaches depending on their opponent where they played Calgary differently than they played Colorado, then they played Vegas. And for me heading into the series, I was so curious to see how they would choose to attack or defend or however you want to phrase it, the lightning, because it's a very tricky proposition to get into that sort of track meet back and forth with them because you probably don't have the firepower to match them. But the problem with that for the stars is most of their easy offense does come from that transition game where they've done such a good job this postseason and credit to Rick Bonas for allowing guys like, Jamie Alexiak and Joel Hanley and obviously John Klingberg to just activate and become that fourth guy in the offensive zone where I mean how many times have we seen in this postseason where

Jamie Alexiak has randomly been right in front of the net in the offensive zone and you're wondering what the hell is you doing down there and I'm sure the opposing defense is also wondering what he's doing down there and then he scores a nice goal but so for the stars how do you sort of find that balance or decide how you want to play this lightning team because I don't think there's necessarily a right answer, just a matter of kind of what you're comfortable with. Yeah, exactly. First off on Alexia, he makes me laugh every game because it's about three times a game. I'm like, you're not good enough to be trying that.

But he does, and he's got the, like, you shouldn't be pinching down there. You shouldn't find yourself on the lip of the crease or on a breakaway. Like, what are you doing up there? But he's got this kind of, you know, you would joke, like, misplaced confidence in the ability to do whatever he wants out there. And that comes from the coaching staff and support from my own. underneath, but you're exactly right. He gets themselves in the spots.

You wouldn't expect a guy with his style and his history to get into, but it's worked for him clearly. You know, what Dallas can do to try to counteract what, you know, Tampa is doing. I think it's twofold. I mean, I think you saw in game one, they first attempt was, we want to forecheck you. And I thought they did a really good job for checking the heck out of Tampa in game one. Like the three forward, not really with active defense and defense,

pinching, but just the tenaciousness of the three forwards and the speed that they were closing down gaps. And I don't think Tampa was ready to kind of deal with all these passes they thought would be open, these lanes that would be there, were getting tipped and turned over. And that was allowing Dallas to kind of reload and reset and attack again, even if it's just within the offensive zone and not a full counter from the neutral zone. Tampa, I thought, made the adjustment to that by saying, if we don't like a play, we are just going to flip it in the neutral zone.

They went hunting field position football style in game two. I don't know if you saw it, but I thought they, every time they weren't sure of themselves in their own end, out to the far blue line. They were just moving the battle out of their own end and further down the ice. And so I thought that was an interesting decision I would have maybe thought you might pass it out of there and try to create rush chances. But they're like, no, no, we're going to flip it out, we'll trust our NutraZone, and we're going to trust that they can't break us down if we don't give it to them. Right. And it's work. And that's what's happened.

And they haven't given them cheapy turnovers, you know, bad decisions, you know, three on three is trying to make something happen with a guy jumping in. All of a sudden it's a two-on-one and Rope-inth and Gereon off are taken off and you can't catch them. Tampa's really limited that. So you can't get them on the four check and you can't get them, you know, once they have in the office zone, then you've got to do a really good job with trying to turn them over at your own blue line. When Tampa has the puck and they're trying to attack off the rush and possessing it in, whether it's, you know, good gaps, good sticks, good back pressure, that's where I think Tampa or Dallas have to try to turn pucks over

and let themselves go the other way. Now whether they can, whether Tampa will become undisciplined and try to create plays that aren't there, I'm not so sure. This Tampa team feels like they might be willing to just kind of chip it in for the most part and go get it and not give up those easy ones. But that's where I think Dallas has to try to get better, but in some ways it's not always in their hands.

that some parts might be in what Tampa is willing to give them. Yeah, I mean, you totally saw it in game one. I think this lightning team and especially defensemen are kind of programmed or wired to try and make that skill play, right? And kind of make that higher leverage or tougher to play. And they were kind of getting eaten alive in that. And so that's a really good adjustment and really good point by you. I think for Dallas, like we saw so much in, you know,

to an extent for sure against Colorado, but especially against Vegas where they were opportunistically turning the buckled with the blue line or limiting how long Vegas was cycling the offensive zone. So they still had the fresh legs to quickly counterattack on the rush and all of a sudden get a potential three on two if Vegas was trapped down low. These past two games, especially with that top line out there for Tampa Bay, when you've got like, it's been really interesting watching these broadcasts on both Sportsnet and on NBC where all of a sudden with the player tracking stuff,

they've got these tickers coming up where it's like, oh, Jamie Lexiac has been out there for a two-minute shift already. And it feels like we've been seeing a lot of that where Tampa Bay is keeping them in there. So even when Dallas does eventually get the puck, they basically all they can do is kind of get it out to the neutral zone and quickly change while they still can. And so that's been really interesting to see how they just had no answer for that Tampa Bay cycle game, ironically enough.

Yeah, I call that the spin cycle, where you kind of get stuck plenty, your own end and you can just kind of get it out and then you change and then they come back at you and the next line gets in there and does the same thing and you never really find your way to the offensive zone with energy and i mean if you think about a lot of dallas's top players right um joe bavalski and you know ben and segan and ragelof those are guys who are not necessarily young and super quick like guys that i would not like to i don't think they can attack after 45 seconds like they got to go and they got to go early in their shifts.

Geriano offense, they're younger, they got those kind of legs that, you know, 45 seconds in, I'll put them in a foot race. But I'm not putting Joe Bevelsky to foot race 45 seconds into a shift. He's not going to ever win it. Neither is Corey Perry, neither is Raduloff, neither is Ben.

And say again, I'm not sure if he's 100% healthy team. I mean, he looks like he is slow to the spot he needs to get to to score. And so that will be a problem to die a quicker strike off that they're looking to create.

They're having trouble, they're having trouble getting the loose puck they need to to get up the ice. So, you know, the one thing that Dallas has shown, and I do believe it's that they are resilient. And I think they do believe that if they stick with it, they will be fine or certainly better off than game three. And I think they'll get back to playing better and more organized in their own end. And I wouldn't be surprised if Rick Bonas tries to push his entire

unit further up the ice. Like try to engage Tampa further up the ice. I can hear his bones coached me for like five years, right? So I know his voice very well from when I was in Arizona. And I can hear him saying, tighter, get up. Get up. I can hear him from the press bar where I'm sitting. I can hear him yelling at his guy.

He wants his guys to gap up and not let Tampa, even get the red line, like try to create some sort of challenge in those areas on the ice where he's. if you are successful, something positive will happen to you. If it happens behind your own goal line, well then you got 200 feet and at least four guys to go through. That's not ideal. If you can happen at the red line or your own blue line,

you give yourself a better chance. So I imagine they will try to do that in game four. Yeah, I was going to ask you. That was on your next question, sort of what the adjustment would be if you were running the Stars team because I think, you know, certainly if they push the envelope and get more aggressive, if it's going to potentially lead to more stuff coming back the other way.

That's sort of the trade-off when you play that way. And Tampa is skilled enough where they can certainly make you pay. But I think it's not really a palatable option for me if I was running the Stars team to sort of sit back and double down on this because what we've seen from these past two games is that Tampa is just too good. And if you give them that extra space on the ice, they will take advantage of it. And so I think you're right. Like it could lead to disaster results and they could lose 7-1 if they play that way.

But I don't think that they're going to win. ultimately playing this sort of more laid-back conservative style. So it's interesting that you say that. And like at some point, like, you're going to have to trust your goal to be good. Right. And while we love the story of Anton Houdobin and, you know, he stops like all the shots he's supposed to, you know, the last whatever, four, five, six periods, it's not been as good. And he's going to have to be really good if he wants to try to help his team beat Tampa. So, you know, that's the reality.

Tampa's probably, you know, they're a better team in many ways than Dallas. Like, who's got the best goalie? I mean, Tampa's got the better goalie. Who's got the best defenseman? As great as Haykinen is, and I love Haykinen. I love him. You know, he's probably not going to Victor Hedbin, not just yet. You know, who's got the best forwards?

I mean, Tampa has the two best forwards. So, you know, it's going to be a tough challenge for Dallas, but I think, you know, they're going to give it. And the other thing that they need to do, and this is not a real X-and-O thing, it's like you can't be taking penalties the way they take penalties. And if your strength is four forward lines that all kind of play the same, that are relentless and can play with pace, and we have three games and four nights coming up,

let yourself play five-on-five. Give yourself your best chance. Don't let their skilled players see open-ice and free chances and puck touches that make them feel comfortable, and they're not, you know, Rick Bonas has talked about it, players have talked about it. These are not, I'm hooking you to stop an empty net goal or a breakway. You know, I'm taking a bad angle. I'm tripping you.

I'm hooking you. I'm interfering with you where I shouldn't. That will give them a chance to kind of stick with their system. The more guys on the ice, the more five on five, the better chance Dallas is going to have. Yeah, and I certainly don't want to, you know, proclaim this series over because as we've seen, as you mentioned, like, they are a resilient group, and they've been through this with, you know, especially the Ave series, but even against the Knights,

where it's like, the other team is probably more skilled and has more firepower and more talent, but they're doing something right and they have a system in place. And for as sort of, as a visually apparent disparity in terms of skill as it's been the past couple of games

for the series, like the expected goals, the high danger chances, they're all still there. Like, it's beyond just that disastrous second period last night in game three. For the most part,

like there's been sequences back and forth that have been lopsided on either end of the ice, but it's been a pretty competitive series. So I think you don't want to completely just throw everything out the window and try to panic. But this is obviously the point in time where you do need to make those adjustments if you see them. Yeah, I wonder, and you know, maybe some of the expected goals are taking it in like score effects. But like both teams seem pretty comfortable with the lead. And when Dallas got up, you know, in the first game, they just sat back and did

nothing. And when Tampa got up in game two and in game three, you know, they sat back and did nothing. The games never really felt close enough for both teams that continue to play the same way for the full 60 minutes. One team has been in the lead enough where they think that they're going to be able to milk it all the way home and they have. And so I'll be curious to see, you know, while somebody to stats, you know, feel quite similar, how much of that is related to, you know, Dallas creating stuff maybe after Tampa's jumped out to lead in games two and three and evening up some of those numbers. We'll see what happens if they play a close game the whole time

and can Dallas generate enough chances. I think that's really going to be the bottom line. Can they generate enough chances because it seems almost inevitable, especially with that first line, that Tampa will get there. Well, the only time we really saw for an extended period of time in a high leverage moment

where both teams were kind of going for was that third period, I thought, in game two where both teams are certainly kind of trading chances. And Dallas was down two goals. And then they got that beautiful assist by Klingberg to bring them within one. And then, you know, Blake Holman was offside. But it felt like both teams were kind of going for it and trading back and forth. And it felt very competitive.

And it felt very evenly matched, I got to say. So I don't know. It's going to be really interesting to see what they do here. I don't know. Like, is there any other sort of matchups or X factors that you've been noticing in the series? It feels like we've been talking about point Kutcherov. Platt so much, but it's because it's the freshest thing on our mind where the past two games they basically haven't left the offensive zone, so it's kind of hard not to talk about them.

Yeah, for sure, but a couple guys that stood at one. Okay, John Klingberg, when he has the puck, is just a treat. Like, to watch, and I imagine to play with. Like, he would be a guy I would have loved because, like, you know what? Nothing better than an offenseman who you can trust. You'll shake the first four checker. I don't have to, I can worry about getting open. And I'm not going to be worried about you turning it over against the first guy.

I think his patience, maybe because he plays for Dallas, the right shot, but remember Sergey Duboff. He would just outweigh you and bring you in and just wait for you to turn away and then just go the other way. And I see some of that in Klingberg with some happier feet going forward and great patience with the puck. So I think he's been a standout and a guy that can tip the scales when he is able to, you know, jump up on the rush. and there is a turnover that they can go with. And the decisions he makes the puck are usually so clean and offensively, really fun to watch.

So I think he's a guy that when you play against him, you've got to skate right through him. You can't get close to him and turn away and get thinking about defense or try to pick the puck off in the air. You have to just go right through the middle of his chest because otherwise he's going to make it look silly. And even if you try to do that, it might not work. I think he's been really, really good.

But on the flip side, Amir Hayskin in it is piling up, you know, whatever, that 20, 24 points now or something like that. I know he had the one really bad giveaway. Yeah, recounting that to as a assist total? Yeah, Pat's Pad to Satt, man, Patty Satt. He's a threat at both ends of the ice. I think he hasn't been, like I know he scored a goal, but he hasn't been quite as noticeable with his legs as he was previously.

And then Eric Bonas touched a little bit, maybe his little fatigue of the grubes. and being a focus and taking the hits and all the rest of it. But he's one guy that, you know, if he can catch his second wind here for the tail end of the final, that could be really important because we know how good he is. He's already one of the best defensemen in the world. But he hasn't had the kind of – and I know – I understand he's more subtle than maybe Klingberg. You know, like maybe not quite the highlight real stuff. Like just he kills you with a thousand solid plays in a row.

But just he hasn't connected quite as often on some of the last. assault played as he was previously in the playoffs. No, you're right. I mean, it is important to remember he's 21 years old and he's human and he's playing against the best team in the league. I don't want to hear 21. No, you're right. Listen, you're in final. You're playing

27 minutes. You got 24 points. No one was saying you're 21 and you got 20 points after the, you know, whatever the last round. So like, 21, 31, 41, whatever. Like, you are what you are. He is really good and they play them to be really good. And I don't think he's over

overwhelmed or nervous or anything like that. I think he may be a little bit tired. They play these games every other day and then some. But, yeah, he can just, and it goes both ways, like not just jumping up, but like if you can get a little bit tighter in its, you know, and it's gap closures and it's sealing off cycles, and he plays against Kutraffin point. If you can do a little better job there,

then we're not talking about them being in the offensive zone the whole time, and Dallas does a little bit more with it. So it's a lot on anyone's plate, whatever they just, But, you know, he's capable of it, and that's why we kind of look for it from him. It's interesting that you brought up Klingberg. I think he's one of the most polarizing players I've ever seen on Twitter, just the way he's discussed. Like, I don't think there's anyone that has no opinion on John Klingberg. It's either people that love him and think that he should be in Norris consideration

or people who just think he's an absolute bomb and can't do anything. And it's so bizarre to me because, I mean, I get it. Like, it's such a human element sort of where when he makes a mistake, especially defense He gets turnstiled or he looks really bad, and it's very easy to kind of laugh at it and be like, ha ha, this guy is not an actual defenseman. But he does so much subtle stuff with the puck with those breakouts. It's funny you're mentioning kind of taking the body and going through him because Patrick Maroon tried to, on a for check, just go lead with his stick, and he got sort of embarrassed

and deaked out of his skates there. And so the puck skills from him are just so through the roof. It's just always bizarre to me to see the discourse about John Klingberg, how negatively he's thought about it in some circles. But I guess, you know, with guys like him, it's, it's that to a lesser degree, obviously, because I don't think the highs are nearly as high. But back during the heydays of Eric Carlson, you'd have this sort of pushback of like, oh, look at these mistakes he made.

And it's like, well, you take the good or the bad because if he makes five awesome plays, it's sort of, it's a net positive compared to the one negative play that sticks in your mind and makes you kind of wish that he had done something better. Yeah, it's amazing. Like, you know, I would be out of saying he made, but you got a defenseman who will do nothing but kind of shoot the puck off the glass it out of its own and and they'll do it three times and they'll change and

you know they'll cross-check someone in the back and fans love them like we need more guys like that he never I'm like he never makes a mistake but like you're never going to score a goal of the ice either and like when you go out there on the ice with guys like that you're like you're just doing laps you're just kind of like doing not even having a puck on the ice

so you know there's a time in place for everything you need to understand score and the time in the game and who you're out there against and all those different things which Klingberg does quite well. And when you make enough good plays, occasionally one will go bad. And over the course of a season,

you'll live with that because the bad outweighs the good by a considerable margin. You know, if the guys you worry about is when the good is not as often as the bad, that's when you're like, hang on, we might have to reevaluate who you think you are as a player because you can't make plays like that. Maybe you do have to dumb it down a little bit,

but that's not the conversation with Klingberg. So I don't know how full, rising is. All I know is I like watching them and I think if I was playing, I would really like to play with him. Yeah. I mean, listen, Iceken is their best offenseman and he's their most important skater. But, um, yeah, Klingberg is, is their engine in some ways where when he's flying around like he was in that third period when they were trying to make a comeback in game two, they're just a completely different team. And it feels like they actually have like a dynamic element to their game with the puck. And then when he's not doing it, it's, it's very apparent how, uh, how kind of an

uphill battle it is for them just to generate any sort of off. offense. But I'll give you, I'll give you a couple of X factors that you, that you didn't mention. So I'll go with them here. And it's, it's that Yanni Gord, Blake Coleman, Barkley-Gudrow line, because, you know, when they made those trades, I think they were thinking this is going to be a nice defensive third line for us when they were kind of mapping out their depth chart. And then ever since Stamcoast went out, and we can get to Stamco's a little bit here as well. It's weird. There were 40 minutes into the show, and we haven't really talked about them. But they've only gone four five-on-five goals. from that Alex Collor and Tyler Johnson line all the season. And they've been quiet. And it hasn't really mattered because that other line, which is now basically their second line, has been so good. I mean,

the underlying numbers are through the roof. They're up 115 with them on the ice. They're like 58% of the shots. I mean, it's ridiculous what they're doing. And beyond that, beyond the 5-15 production, you got Coleman and Goodrow out there,

both as their top penalty killers. It was really interesting to me to see. It's very telling. And you know this as a player. Like coaches, there's a lot of coach speak and coaches can say a lot in the media, but they're sort of the way they use players and deploy them, especially in high leverage moments,

speaks volumes about what they actually think of the guys they have. And at the end of that game, too, with one minute left, they were trying to kind of salt away the clock. And Barclay Goodrow was out there with, I think, it was Sorrelli and Cologne, and then they loaded up Headman and McDonough as a super pair defensively. And he was out there and he got the job done. And so it's been really interesting watching these guys play

because I know that at the deadline, a lot was made of the price they paid and how much draft capital the lightning gave up for them. But given the context of sort of the financial situation they're in as a team, how it opens their window up again for next year, and we can talk more about that as well. But just on the ice, the impact they've had,

it's like a home run, just slam dunk situation where Juliet Breesua identified a clear need on their roster and brought in two guys that fit perfectly, and I think even in his wildest dreams he couldn't have really seen this sort of impact happening this postseason. Yeah, you're exactly right now. I'll throw some, some, my thoughts

on those guys. K, one, you know, a lot of people talk about this newfound identity that Tampa has and when it got gritty players and Blake Coleman and Barkley-Ga-Gadro are that. Grit in and of itself does not kind of ever make a player good. Right. It's when you comply grit with other skills.

Grit is a skill, and people who watch me play would say I could have used more of it. It's no question. But I think you know, you can't get so hung up on like any guy who kind of runs into people and is kind of grimy and talks a little bit, whatever, like it's not just that. It's, you know, the defensive

awareness of Clarka Goodro, it's the speed of like Coleman, it's ability to produce and finish on occasion. It's, you know, their understanding of the game. Like, there are other parts to their package that go along nicely with the grit, which make them really good for each other and for the team and for the moment.

So there's that. The other part of it is, you know, and I don't want to diminish their impacts, but, like, Victor Hedman, if you're on the ice in any capacity with Victor Hedman, and they often are because they check the other team's best line, like everything and everybody looks better when 7-7 is alongside of them. Everybody, even good players, like these guys are, and everyone's numbers get a boost by being anywhere remotely near Victor Hedman when he's on the ice.

There's that. And the other part of it, which, you know, there was moments in my career where I was, you know, I played in a checking role. And in some ways, I kind of liked it because you knew that if you did a good job, you could get chances. Because most good offensive players are not as concerned playing defense. They're kind of like, you know what, you can have a chance because I'm going to get a chance. And I'm better at scoring them than you. So we'll trade. If we end up with 10 each in the game, we probably get two when you get one.

we're happy. And so there's this element of like if you do the, you know, you play them hard and you're physical and you're responsible and you do the right things against the top players in many ways, you will get better chances than you would against a third line. Right. Or, you know, more inclined to think defense first. So you put all that together. And Yanni Gord rediscovering, you know, his rookie form. I don't know if it's the contract, he's feeling some pressure to live up to. But, you know, I think he adds the element of skill, you know, kind of making plays in and around the net. with those guys.

And it's been, and it's been a perfect fit. And, you know, it's always easy and here they are in the final up to one to say, you know,

what a brilliant. Because I was the one like, yeah, Barkley-Git-Joe, first-rounder, that's a lot. That's a lot. I mean,

you know, good player. And even Blake Coleman, and I think Blake Coleman is signed for another year, so that makes it be more valuable because they want guys that they can afford.

But there's no question because they are the third line, but they're kind of getting played like the second line. Right. You know, like, they love Sorrelli and Kup loves Kloin, but, you know, they start every period. They get big matchups. Their minutes are, they're five-on-five minutes, I would almost imagine would be as much or more than that second line.

I don't have it in front of me, but, you know, they trust them implicitly. They play, as you mentioned, all these high-leverage situations, and understandably so. They have been huge difference makers for Tampa, for sure, especially with Stampo's out and that second line being as quieted as it has been. been five-on-five. Well, it feels like whenever Cooper needs, like, it's like there's like a stagnant moment in the where Tampa has had three or four bad shifts in a row. He kind of sends those guys out there and they make something happen. And it's really important that you mention sort of the grit component of it, but also, you

know, when you're going up against other teams' top guys and how they'll give you chances, the sort of one underlying assumption there is that you are able to actually go and get the puck yourself. Otherwise, you're going to just be trapped in your defensive zone at all times and kind of getting suffocate. And so in this case, like when you have Gord and Coleman and even Goudro to extent, like, they're just so good with their legs at winning battles and chasing down the puck. And then as we saw with Coleman with that one goal, he scored that in the Islander series where, you know, it was kind of this like loose puck in front of Arlamov and he chased it down.

And then in tight made this move with his hands to actually capitalize on it. They have the requisite skill as well to certainly take advantage. So, yeah, one thing I will say about, you know, there was a lot of sticker shock. And this was something that I was pushing back at a lot of deadline because people were like, wow, they give up two first round picks if you include the former first round pick Nolan Foot for Coleman. They gave up a first for Goodrow. And it's like, well, really, they gave up the 30th or 31st overall pick to get the- Not all first rounders are created equally. Yeah. But also they get back San Jose's third in that it's like this is probably going to be like the 65th pick or whatever. And knowing Tampa Bay,

like they're probably more likely to get a quality player at 65 than most teams are at 31. So I'm not too worried about that. And the other door it opens up for them is both Goodrow and Coleman are under contract next year for combined 2.75, I believe. And so if you have to, you know, because they're going to have to pay Sargachev, they're probably going to have to move at least two of those medium range contracts. And I think based on the way things have been going, it looks like it'll probably be Clorin and Johnson because I think Palat and Gord have sort of played their way into almost untradable territory based on this postseason. All of a sudden, you're looking at that scenario where it's like, wow, we have. this Gord Coleman Goodroll line, which is basically our second line

under contract next season for very reasonable salaries. So it was kind of a double whammy for Julian Breezwother. So I just wanted to to kind of reiterate that because I know there's a lot of people kind of laughing at how many sort of quote unquote first round picks were traded for those two guys. Yeah.

I mean, I was one like, oh, first rounder, but I mean, when you understand the finances, when you forecast forward and they know Sir Gerev and Sorreliazschev and Sorrelia are coming up, and the Vasselowski's extension kick in next year too maybe. Like, they need more money. So they need guys who are assigned to affordable deals

add extra value beyond what they just bring as players. So, yeah, those guys have been full value. They've looked great and given Breeze Blonde's have exactly what they were hoping. And the other one, like, you know, shut out this one line. I thought, so in game three, you talk about momentum. They put that line out there. So you can check it. Go to 235 on the clock in the first period left.

Tampa is reeling. It's been all Dallas for about 12 minutes. And there's a neutral zone face-off, and John Cooper puts out Aquette, Maroon, and Coulorn. Now, I think notice of it because I'm like, where's Stamco? So I was trying to track what he was going back on the ice.

And that line went out there, got the puck in the offensive zone, and started banging around and re-energized the forecheck. And eventually they drew a penalty right at that, the end of the period, building off of that. And I thought, like, it was an out-of-sequence change, and it was a line that wasn't natural fit. And I thought it was another kind of good feel moved by Cooper, just like, we need, like, sometimes you need just like a little energy, a little physicality, even if they don't do a ton, like, creating an actual chance, but just maybe tilt in the ice a little bit more. And I thought that was something well done by John Cooper.

All right. We're going to leave on this one final question before you, and it's probably the toughest one I've given you so far. let's project forward and say that Tampa Bay will win this series in however many games as it's looking like it'll be the case right now and we don't want to jinx it and I don't want this come back to bite us because we do think that the Dallas stars are a very good team with at least one big push left in them here what's your cons my pick because this is one of those situations where it's kind of in the eye of the beholder it's also like it's very based on sort of subjectivity I really don't think there is I know you're probably

week and Aline Headman based on what you were just saying when I was talking about that second line. But I don't think there's based on the numbers and based on just kind of watching it. Like there's so many different cases to be made. Well, I think there's three. And I'm not including Vasilevsky, which is amazing to say because he's got a 929 save percentage, leads the league and goals saved above expected. And no other Tampa Bay goal he has made an appearance this postseason, which is probably the most remarkable stat. But between headman, Kutrov and point, how are you leading in terms of sort of trying to strip the parts away from each other? and determine ultimately which one is the engine, which one is moving the needle the most,

and acknowledging it's really tough to do so because they spend so much time kind of playing off of each other. Yeah, you're right. And I'll say I had Vasselowski as my favorite after two rounds. Right. So, you know, he deserves consideration. He's not going to win it, but he deserves consideration if this wraps up in five or six or whatever in Tampa Saver. So, I mean, I guess, you know, Poyt and Kucheroff are setting records for most points. he's getting close to 30 on the postseason.

You know, he's getting to some rarefied air. And, you know, you're looking at offense, which is hardest to come by in the playoffs, and he's doing it better than anyone else. And he's no, he's shown more discipline. He's not getting as frustrated, not quite as temperamental as he was, even last year. All signs that, you know, really good case. Braiding Point, I think even Nikita Kutrov would say, is the most important forward on Tampa. Like, he does so much for them, and Kutroff couldn't do what he does without point.

Point has scored more goals. he's right there in points with him. And he's done it, well, probably not, Kutrov might not be 100%, but point we know is not 100% either. And you saw what happened when he didn't play against the Islanders, they did not win. When he played, they won.

So, you know, pretty easy case for him. So I lead all that up to saying, my winner is Victor Hedbin. I mean, he's got, what, Paul Coffey and Brian Leach ahead of him right now on goal scored in a playoff in the history of the NHL. Those are two pretty good players, pretty good teams, and won Stanley Cups.

that he's double digits there he plays with Couture off a point he plays in the power play he plays everything and does every you know and make everyone better shut down the opposition's best players helps his own offense go

and maybe more than anything to him so who does he always who does he play with Luke Shen he's played with Jack Bogosian he's played with Jan Ruta he's played with Kevin Chappertrk occasionally they mix

in McDonner or Surgh but not very often and he has made those first four players like Luke Shen was almost out of the league Bogosian was on way was almost out of the league Shackler was a buyout and you know trying to find his feet Ruta has bounced around a little bit you know far from an elite level defender and when he's on the ice with any of those guys good things happen for Tampa plus the offense and you know the statistical case that goes along with it I just think he's such an imposing figure in every game in its outcome and what Tampa is doing that even with a gaudy offensive numbers of

Putraoff and point, I'd have to give it to Hedman. Yeah, I think it certainly seems like the common belief is that is leaning that way, and certainly the totality of his numbers. Well, I don't want to be common. I want to be right. You obviously don't like it.

No, no, I think it's, listen, okay, I'm going to give you the pro-Hedman argument here because there's a lot of points to be made in his favor. I mean, playing nearly 28 minutes a night and even if you strip that crazy 50-plus minute game in the marathon, O.T. versus Columbus, it's still over 26 a night, 10 goals, point per game. I think my favorite stat of all this postseason, and I've brought it up on Twitter a couple times, and I will keep doing

so until the playoffs are done. He's played 400 minutes of 5-on-5 since the start of round one. Tampa Bay's outscoring teams 24 to 6 in those 5-15 minutes. Headman himself has six five-on-five goals. So he's basically matched what everyone else he's played against combined, and then he's basically giving Tampa Bay an extra 18 goals. cushion there for everyone else to jump in on the fun. So you're right. I mean, those numbers themselves. They speak for themselves. It's quite a performance. He does have kind of that calming presence of he just gets out there and it's kind of like a good point guard where you can just give him the pocket and he'll sort of settle things down and you need that over the course of a game and a series

and a postseason run. I think like for me between Kuturov and point and maybe they sort of do kind of cancel themselves out in a way where it just leaves you with Hedman. It's really tough because on the one hand, I don't think I've enjoyed watching a player play more this postseason than Braden Point when he's been healthy in the sense that it's right up there with, I guess, Matt Barzala, sort of the most impactful transition player we've seen. The speed and skill is obvious, but I think what I've been blown away with most is sort of that power game of his, where despite his frame, he's kind of got that Crosby-esque ability to get low and stick his butt out and kind of use his arm to block guys, trying to take the

puck from him, and get to wherever. he wants in the ice and just absorb contact and people bounce off of him and he still makes plays. And it's been really, really fun to watch. So you got to give points on love there. For Kuturov, part of it maybe just kind of bit sort of sweet for me because the conversation about him after last year's sweep was so idiotic. I thought when he won all the individual awards and then didn't show up and got suspended. And everyone's like, oh, what a regular season player. Can't get it done when it matters most. And he's been with a puck just, I think, otherworldly. this postseason especially as this series gone along i thought game two and i know you did a little

video about this that i was watching where his ability to just sort of orchestrate the entire tampa bay offense and just pick apart dallas's structure with his passing was amazing where he had he's had three primary assists the past two games he easily could have had five or six if his players converted on some of those opportunities so i don't know it's it's basically this is why tampa bay is very good because they have three awesome very deserving candidates not to mention their goalie, but it's such a fascinating debate for me because I don't think there is a right answer. I think it is just a matter of sort of what you prefer

and what you value the most. Yeah, and you know, we've had in years past, like, you know, Phil Kessel could have won it, but, you know, there's kind of like the romantic pros we need to win it. Like, I don't know if any of these guys kind of have that, you know, we got to give it to Hedman because he desert. You know, I don't know if anyone has any kind of

sentimental reasonable for them, other than you think they're the most important person in the win if Tampa wins it. So, I don't know, you know, I know the media kind of put to balance is like second period of the deciding game or something like that. So I don't think we'll see anything but kind of rational voting. That should be all that matters in this one. And there is no wrong decision.

And I hate voting for defense and over fours for anything. But, you know, and who knows? You know, who trophy won't get six points tomorrow night? I mean, it's not out of the question. So we'll see how the rest of the series plays out. But they've all been just tremendous. Yeah. Is there anything?

Do you want to touch on Stamikos? all or I don't know like what is there to say at this point well two more things one more thought real quick yeah we talked about the two fastest players in the series are hints and garyana like i love watching these guys skate in the neutral zone and like when they find open ice there's not a lot of it when they find it like Tampa has problem with those two players specifically yep because of the pace and trying to find ways to implement more spots for them to skate will be good for dallas so just when you when you're watching the game live you're like yeah those guys are moving at a different speed than anybody else

Even Braden Point, who's a great skater. You know, Victor Hedman, who's kind of long and smooth. Even he is not as fast as those two. So that's something to watch. As far as Damocos goes, I've watched a thousand games since I've retired. I don't get excited about, you know, about anything. I got a little buzz when he came up for warm-up. I'm like, this is pretty cool.

You know, wheeling around, buckets off and, you know, stretching it out. I'm like, you know, he's been through a lot. This bubble life is no walk in the park. And to be at it for two months in training and, you know, rehabbing and skating and without ever playing, that would be no fun at all. So I was happy to see him get back. I mean, I love the kind of simple brilliance of his goal, you know, the timing, the slide, the shot, all of it. But kind of left feeling bittersweet about the whole experience in that he's not able to finish.

I don't think we're going to see him again in the series. I'd be really surprised if we did. And, you know, I want his body to be right, but want him to get healthy because he's really good at scoring the puck when he is. and as amazing and as loud as that building felt with no fans in it when he scored, which was fun to hear in Tampa and see the reaction of the bench to their captain back and doing what he did,

you know, when he didn't play the rest of the game, you know, I kind of just felt sad that his body is not after, what, months and months and months of the core surgery and whatever he did in phase two, you know, I think it's a lower body injury, like he can't still get right for more than three minutes. That's sad because I like seeing the best players play.

and I wish he was healthier than he is right now. Certainly. And it was kind of devastating watching the telecast, of him kind of coming out of the dressing room late in the second period, and you could just sort of see how defeated he was based on what had happened over the past 15, 20 minutes or whatever. But it was good to see that he was having a good time on the bench, and certainly Tampa Bay winning and scoring some goals helps with that regard.

But he at least got sort of one vintage moment there with that goal. And you're right. I think beyond anything else, just hope, hope he gets healthy and hope he gets back to feeling good because, you know, you hate to see the best players kind of going down like that and not only being shells of themselves, but also struggling through it. And so, yeah, that's about it. I think that's a good little place to end this conversation here and put a bow on our talk here. So it's been a fun three games. I really enjoy this series. And just based on the sort of stylistic differences between the two teams and sort of the back and forth, I'm really curious to see how the next two to three games or even four games go here between the. these two. Yeah, and it's fun to watch chess match because a lot of times teams are given adjustments, but they don't really implement them very well. And so I give these teams and their coaches credit because they call for adjustments and the teams actually pull them off. So it should be fun to see what Rick Bonas and his coaching staff can come up with in the next couple days as they go back

to back for games four and five. All right, MJ, where can people check out? What are you doing these days while you're hanging out there, bubble adjacent in Eminton? I am with the NHL network, so we're doing our, you know, pre-and-post hits and what's going on with the T-Series. I'm dropping into TSN to do some stuff as well for that's hockey. I'm still on TIRUSXM, most every morning from, what is it, 10 to 11, some TSN radio as well while talking to you.

So I've got a full plate of hockey coverage for the next few weeks. Keeping yourself busy. All right, well, I appreciate you taking the time, considering that especially, and this was a blast, man. Hopefully we'll do it again soon. All right, we'll talk to it. That's going to do it for another episode of the Hockeypedo guests.

Thanks to everyone for listening. Thanks to Mike Johnson for taking the time to come on the show again. He's not even on the line anymore, so it's not like I'm buttering him up, but I honestly do believe that he is the gold standard when it comes to the media game and the depth of analysis he can get into and how he can discuss really important stuff and make it sound simple and easy to digest. And hopefully we did that on today's show and hopefully you enjoyed it. this marks consecutive weeks now back to back that we've done new shows and so hopefully this is a sign of things to come and we'll be able to keep the ball rolling here through the end of the cup final and into the off season and keep delivering new podcasts for you to listen to. So thanks to everyone that stuck with us through the dry spell on the four-month hiatus and hopefully we'll be rewarding your patience and your dedication to the show with new quality

shows that you enjoy. So one thing you can do to help us out and to keep showing that support is to go and leave a quick rating and review for the PDO cast on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcast. It honestly only takes a minute or two. It's really simple. You can get as detailed with it as you want. You can make an inside joke. You can just leave that five-star review. We really appreciate it. Either way you go with it, it goes a long way to where it's helping the show and showing future sponsors and and people that will want to partner with the PDO cast that you guys are listening, that you're enjoying it, and that we have a reason to keep these shows coming.

So thanks for your help in that regard. And we'll be back sometime next week with what looks like it'll be a wrap-up show of the playoffs and the Cup final series. And we'll get into all of that based on the outcome. And then we'll have a lot of future fun shows planned as well. I mean, we're going to do another mock draft before the October 6th entry draft, and then we'll do a ton of free agent analysis. And hopefully if the past couple weeks of kind of sneaky trades that have happened amongst teams

that have already been eliminated are any indication, this is going to be a busy and fun offseason filled with lots of player movement and we'll be getting into all of it here, as we always do on the PDOCAS. So thanks for listening. Here's the outro, and we'll be back next week. The hockey PDEO cast, Dimitri Filipovich. follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.