The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 361: Mock Draft v2.0

Episode Date: October 5, 2020

Cam Robinson and Rachel Doerrie join the show to discuss draft philosophy, and how to maximize value when everyone is looking at roughly the same stuff. We make each of the 15 lottery picks based on what we think should happen given the talent available, not necessarily what we think will happen at the actual draft. We also get into the strengths and weaknesses of each top prospect, how their skills translate to the next level, and what a reasonable NHL comparable for their game is. The topics we cover include:1:30 Pros and cons of extra preparation time18:30 1st pick – Quinton Byfield25:40 2nd pick – Alexis Lafreniere30:30 3rd pick – Marco Rossi35:30 4th pick – Lucas Raymond39:20 5th pick – Tim Stutzle46:00 6th pick – Alexander Holtz51:00 7th pick – Jake Sanderson59:30 8th pick – Jamie Drysdale1:04:00 9th pick – Cole Perfetti1:09:00 10th pick – Anton Lundell1:11:00 11th pick – Seth Jarvis1:16:00 12th pick – Dawson Mercer1:17:30 13th pick – Yaroslav Askarov1:22:30 14th pick – Jack Quinn1:25:00 15th pick – Rodion Amirov1:26:30 High upside pick that could fallEvery episode of the show is available on iTunes, Spotify, Soundcloud, and wherever else you may typically get your podcasts. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated, especially the ones of the 5-star variety!See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich and joining me for a special three-way mock dress. It's my good friends, Rachel Dory, Cam Robinson. What's going on? How we doing, gang? Yeah, nice and early start for us this morning. And I feel like we're going to spit some fire, though. I feel like, yeah, there's a lot of fire about to be coming.

This is exciting. I like doing these three-way shows, although I feel like, like Cam, you and I did one with Chris Peters. We did the mock draft version 1.0 in the first week of May during kind of simpler times when we didn't know when the NHL draft was going to be. but we thought they might rush it to fill the sports void with no games in early June. But I felt like when we were doing that, the first like 10, 15 minutes are kind of like a touch and feel period where you're trying to figure out, you don't want to step on each other's toes and you're like figuring out who's going to speak.

And then once you get going into it, all of a sudden we're just like going back and forth and find a rhythm. So hopefully the three of us will be able to repeat that success this time around. I got a good feeling about it. Rachel and I have been doing some podcasts here recently too. so we're on a good vibe, I think. Yeah, is this an elite prospect staff meeting or something that I'm saying to? Like, what's going on here? That's pretty much what's going on.

All right. So we'll touch on a little bit of a draft philosophy or sort of methodology before we get into a mock draft. How are you, through you feeling about this? Because obviously it's a very sort of unprecedented year in terms of the scheduling and having an October draft. I know like Cam, you especially have been releasing so many different quote unquote final versions of your draft board, including one just before we went on the air today. But do you think it's kind of like a point of diminishing returns where at a certain point you're just sort of talking yourself into a pretzel because you're going over the same stuff over and over again and you're sort of nitpicking where nitpicking might not even be needed? Or do you think just because there is so much stuff to parse and so much tape to go through? that that extra period of time will actually benefit teams because they'll be more prepared than ever

before. I think I always talk myself into a pretzel personally, but whether it's extended draft season or not, but I saw an interesting quote from one of the top guys in Ottawa there saying that, you know, that the recent play over in Europe isn't impacting their board because their work is done. And to me, the work is never done until the draft pick is made. And so I'm happy to take all the information that I can glean, whether it's watching old tape through, you know, August, September, or it's watching these kids play this morning.

You know, I had a league of game up heroes. We were waiting to record. So take it all in that you can. And yes, you know, it does come down to a little bit of, you know, I've made this board so many times, you know, moving a guy up a spot or down a spot isn't really going to make a big difference at this point. And there shouldn't be any wild swings. But at the same time, you know, like a kid like Lucas Raymond's coming back.

he's getting deployment, he's looking bigger, he's looking stronger, he's looking a little bit quicker. That should be something that you take into consideration when you're looking at a draft big because normally you're picking them in June and you're hoping they come back bigger and stronger and faster. And so you get this little window. I think it's a real opportunity for teams that have scouting staffs that were working the video, you know, throughout the summer and not just kind of resting on their laurels and being like, you know what? I saw the kid 10 times during the season. That's all I need. Yeah, I think for me, I'm one of the, things I'm noticing is I feel like there's more galaxy braining going on now because we've had this

extra few months of work and I know that some teams have been definitely watching a ton of video and other teams less so but I think that I'm always of the belief that the more you watch a player the more you nitpick so I mean Cam and I are definitely the two most staunch supporters of byfield the EP and I've watched Quentin play since he was like six. So if anyone's going to overanalyze him, it's going to be me. And to me, there's just so much overanalysis going on that people are talking themselves into dropping Lucas Raymond to like eight or nine, which seems very silly to me. Or putting Jack Quinn at five, which is equally as silly to me. So I just think that, yes, watching tape is really good, but I think you need to be

careful to not try and find things that aren't necessarily there. Yeah. Well, the thing I respect about, Cam, and we're going to get into Byfield that at one on his board here soon, but like, you've had that since the very beginning. And I respect you sticking to it. I think when you have this, like, drawn out process, especially for people that have to keep either releasing updated ranks or have to go on like TV or radio frequently and basically talk about the same stuff over and over again, like, I feel like it lends itself to sort of eventually at some point you're like, hmm, like, man, you know, have we considered maybe that this guy should be going slightly higher than, uh, than other people think? And then you like lead to like, like, some sort of

like intellectual dishonesty sort of where you don't actually maybe even believe it, but just because you've been talking about this so much, you sort of start talking yourself slowly into it a little bit. I feel like part of that happens as well because you'd think that with this draft, considering everyone is sort of working with the same material and has been for the past whatever five or six months since games really stopped, you'd think that we'd all kind of converge to a relative consensus because we're all working with the same stuff. But instead, I feel like it's the opposite where you look and there's just so much disagreement even in like the top five or six in terms of where people should go.

And that's really, really interesting to me. And obviously it's going to lend itself to a great product of entertainment at the draft because we don't know what's going to happen and it's going to be fascinating to find out. But it's a bit of a surprising development for me because I would have figured it be the opposite. I think that's what makes this business so unique and so wonderful too is that, you know, we can sit down the three of us, watch the same game, focus in on the same players at the end of it.

We can see different things. We can see positives and negatives and look for projectable skills and, you know, to have that discourse and to be able to chat about it and, you know, bounce ideas off of smart people. you know, I learn a ton of things from other people chatting about this stuff. You know, our EP ringside Slack group is just full of great stuff that, you know, I'm constantly learning and, you know, someone provides a different vantage point. And I'm like, oh, you know, I go back and I reassess. But, you know, everyone's going to value different skills and different traits, different abilities,

and that's going to go into their list building. And so I try not to, you know, downplay other people's opinions, even if they go all Galaxy Brain and they want Jack Quinn at five or they want Lucas Raymond at 10, Befield at five, things like that. It's easy to be like, that is not at all what I think. And so I think you are silly because at the same time, you know, people might say the same thing about some of your takes too that you have personally. And at the end of the day, no one really knows what's right until we're five, ten years down the road. And then we can point the fingers. I mean, one area where I'll disagree with you is a one scout in Bob

McKenzie's final draft rankings had Marco Rossi at 18 on his board. Okay, yeah, that's wrong. I feel confident saying that person should have their opinions on hockey revoked. They're not allowed to talk about hockey anymore. I saw someone on Twitter that had Lafranier at four. So there was also that. That's bold. That's bold.

Yeah. That's one one for it. I don't know, maybe two. I mean, okay, so normally I'd say in a typical year, there's quite a bit of recency bias, right? Especially for big tournaments where if someone has a monster showing it either the World Juniors or the Memorial Cup, like everyone's watching and it kind of, it can do a lot for your draft stock. It's been so long for most of these players since they have played hockey,

I would have said that's going to kind of eliminate that recency bias. But Cam, as you're mentioning, now we're seeing games in the Swedish League and the KHL playing and when, like, you watch a guy like Yaroslav Ascarob all of a sudden come out of the gate with three awesome performances. Like, it's hard not to take stock of that, which is why I think it's, it's, It's incorrect to not be accounting for that if you're running an HL team at this point. Like you certainly don't want it to completely sway your opinion and throw everything you thought out the window before. But it's just new information and you need to be able to adapt to it on the fly. Otherwise, I think you're doing it wrong.

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I talk about that. Originally, it looked like we'd probably be the furthest thing from recency bias this year with no hockey being played and not knowing when the draft was going to be to having potentially the biggest recency biased opportunity for some of these kids because it's not. not everyone playing too, right? So we have all these North American kids that are sitting at home just being like, ah, watching these kids over in Europe and Russia have an opportunity to showcase their development. And, you know, so consequently, we see agents are really pulling for their players.

Like, I've gotten several texts from different agents being like, you should see the work he's done on his skating stride. And it's like, great to hear, you know, you might have a little bit of a vested interest in telling me all these positive things that I don't get to watch myself. But no, it's definitely, it's an opportunity for these players to, to build on their game and to give a GM or a head scout one last look to be like, holy smokes, maybe he's better than we thought while these other kids don't have that chance. So it's a really complex situation this year and unfortunate for some and beneficial for others. But, you know, that's just the way life works. All right.

One final thing before we get into the mock. So I've been thinking long and hard the past however long about sort of ways to maximize, draft value in 2020 because it feels like for the most part people are getting smarter people are sort of reading the same work they're at least sort of paying attention obviously you know different teams are going to value different things but at least there's kind of like a general awareness more so I think now and and sort of a bit of a group think and especially when it comes to like draft pick value charts for example I think you're not going to see like completely outlandish moves where a team is just trading a king's ransom to move up. But in 2020, like, what do you

think is still kind of an undervalued or underappreciated tactic in terms of whether it's looking for player types, whether it is picking at certain regions of the draft, or do you think like picks in the middle of the first round are overvalued and maybe if anything, you should be moving back and getting more volume? Like, like, where do you think in 2020 there's still value to be gleaned. Okay, so I'm actually doing this as my master's thesis, so I started looking into this kind of stuff, and there's definitely like all the obvious ones. But in terms of getting actual value for picks, once you're basically past like 14, 15,

and even at that range, it's actually better to trade back and accumulate, let's say you can get a late first and a second round pick. That tends to actually have more value in terms of player performance. than getting a player kind of in the mid-first round because the drop-off, the average drop-off usually from like the top five down to 15 is pretty big. Now, I would say this year there's an opportunity to get some players who have star potential kind of in the teens, just because I think it's a top-heavy draft.

But I would say trading back is definitely an area that, team should look at. And I can't believe this still needs to be said, but draft the best player available because that is apparently being overthought and overlooked. There's underscouting that happens in certain leagues. So like the MHL and the VHL are severely underscouted. Even some of like the second Swedish and Finnish leagues are underscouted,

whereas you have the CHL being grossly over-scouted. So I think there's bias there. as well. I mean, I don't know. Don't you think that Canucks taking Oli Ull Evie over

Matthew Kichuk because they'd already drafted Jake Furtan two years prior worked out pretty well for them? I think you should... That's a home run move, right? I mean, it's hilarious to think that like

there's so much uncertainty. Like, I don't even know like what's going to happen next week. Trying to like map out what your organization is going to look like three to five years from now. It's so ridiculous. Let's just get as many good players you can and figure it out after.

Yeah, like it would literally be like the Ottawa senators saying, we aren't going to draft Jamie Drysdale, let's say, or even like Braden Schneider with one of their later first round picks because we already have Thomas Shabbat. No, if he's the best player available, please take him. There's no law against having too many good players. And I feel like teams might forget about that sometimes. I so there were actually two I maybe I'm kind of stepping on my own toes here because

everyone does have the same sort of drastic value charts but last year at the draft there were two trade downs that I really liked so the the flyers sucker the coyotes into a falling in love with victor soderstrum and they traded them 11 for 14 and 45 and then they used 45 and 65 to move up on day two and move up to 34 and I mean just like the two players they could have got for the pick they originally had is tremendous. And then for the hurricanes, they moved 37 for 48, 44 and 83. And they just basically got Antony Honka for free at 83, just out of thin air. So there's still, I think, opportunities to take advantage of it because as analytical as we get, I still think the draft is, you know, there's a human element involved where like you fall in love with prospects or you want to be

the person who's like commended for taking a certain player. And so, um, you can always kind of use that to leverage teams. I still think opportunities for trade downs are there. I think without a doubt, you nailed it on the headway saying you want to take advantage of someone who was falling in love with the player. And that's what happened with AZ last year. You know,

I have a good authority that they made a very similar offer to the Canucks to jump up to 10 to take them. You know, they had them as the third ranked player on their board. And they were just, they wanted him so badly that they were willing to do that and give up that value pick in the second round. And so teams are going to be out there.

There's definitely, yeah. That's going to happen this year. For sure. And I think we have an opportunity to see that as one of these, you know, consensus top 10, 11 kids slips. Because inevitable, it's inevitable. It's going to happen. One or two of them is going to be sitting there at 12 or 13.

And all it takes is somebody at, you know, 15, 16, 17 who's like, oh my goodness, we want them. We want them bad. Let's jump up and do it. And, you know, at the cost of an early second or a B level prospect or something like that. And so if a team can see that and they know they have a confident in their staff that, you know, we can slide back four picks and still get a guy that we really like,

that's a great opportunity. Well, I also think, like, the opposite can be true, too. Like, let's say there's a situation where you're Carolina or whomever, and Lucas Raymond is sitting there at 10, which he absolutely shouldn't be. But if he's sitting there at 10, I feel like, yeah, you know what? Maybe giving up a B prospect might actually work out for you in that standpoint because you have other teams who maybe don't value him as much. So I feel like the opposite might be true for,

this draft as well where a player consensus who should be at the top of the draft slips because you have teams taking the players that they've fallen in love with and then all of a sudden a team trades up and gets a player that definitely shouldn't have been there and maybe they get value out of that so I think we can see so many different scenarios play out just because there's so much disagreement in who should go where yeah I mean I don't know about you two will get into it here but I have a pretty clearly defined top tier of six players. There's a seventh that I could be talked into, and I think Cam will try to do his best to do so.

But I have six guys that I think are very clearly head and shoulders above the rest. And I feel very confident that those six will not be the top six in any order in this year's draft. And so I do think the possibility of someone sort of reaching and going off the board, similar to when Arizona, I know we're like really crushing the coyotes here, but when they reached for Barrett Hayden and it kind of forced Queen Hughes to fall down to seven when you thought there was no way he was getting out of the top six. I think there's going to be a similar element to that. So that goes to what you're saying, Rachel, where, like, you could easily move up a couple

spots there and pounds on a guy if you really like them. So, okay, let's do the mock here. We're going to divvy up the lottery picks, the top 15 between the three of us. We're going to go in snake order. We're going to make five picks each. I think it's important to note that what we're going to do is make the picks that we think should be made in terms of our evaluation of the players in the talent because that's ultimately all we can control. We're not going to try to crystal ball and figure out what the teams will actually

do. But I do think we should sort of mention or consider, especially in certain cases where a team has been linked at a certain spot to a certain prospect, we can kind of allude to that as well. But ultimately, I think it's more interesting for people listening to hear what we think about the players as opposed to what we think about what the teams will do. And then we can do some player comps as well. I know, I don't know how you feel about that as prospect evaluators, but I think it can lead to kind of like unfair expectations for players, certainly, and everyone's unique. But, you know, if you're kind of a casual fan that's trying to become acclimated with some of these names, I think it helps to sort of visualize what that player at least stylistically looks like in

terms of an NHO player you've seen. So, Cam, I'm going to give you the floor. You're going to pick first. Rachel's going to go second and I'll go third. So without further ado, it's been a long time coming here. We've been waiting for the first pick to be made. Then you're Eric Rangers are on the clock. I love it too because when we did it with Peters there, you wouldn't give me first because we didn't want to start off too hot and heavy. You know, I've been asked this by a couple of people on the team side of things that whenever I re-release a rankings and quitting Bifil's at the top, I get a little message

from someone being like, so if you're a GM, do you have the stones to go up there and make that pick? And the answer is always, you know, how much does the owner trust me and love me? But in this situation, I think the owner's got a lot of love for me. So I'm going with the big man with the Rangers too. I think it makes a ton of sense for them. I've been doing some Rangers podcasts and it's not as outlandish as you think. Even in that New York bubble is that to get a locked in top flight center who has the potential to be a matchup nightmare,

he's the type of player that when he reaches to ceiling, it could be so unique that, you know, teams are going to just try to get a game plan against him and have nothing to throw at him. So, you know, even the best defensive centers in the league will have a hard time matching up against a guy who's six foot, 4, 6-105, and he's going to be playing at 225. They just don't come along too often. You know, there are some knocks on him. What you see at the moment isn't what you get and what you're hoping to get. I think that there's definitely room for improvement.

He can clean up his posture on his stride, despite being a silky smooth skater. I think he can find ways to discover softer areas on the ice a little bit better, get a little more physically mean out there and use that body. At this point, he dominates Junior more of as a finesse player than as a real bull and a China shop. So there are things that need to come together for him to be that super elite rare package. But I'm banking on him as the New York Rangers to get me there. And, you know, they've got a top flight wingers on the left side already. And, you know, they don't necessarily need Lafranier. And so for me, this is the best player available. And could be a Gennie Malcon,

could be Eric Lindross, could be Rick Nash. We'll see what it's going to be. But he's going number one. Yeah, I'm in agreement. I actually have an article coming for elite prospects about byfield and Cam kind of hit the nail on the head. I kind of broke down how he can hit the potential that Cam sees in him and that I see in him. I think that if he hits his potential, he will be the best player in this draft. And to me, if you believe in your development system, and in this case you're the New York Rangers and you have money galore, there should be no reason why you're not investing in this kid's development.

and so if he can fix his posture, if he can discover how to play in space and how to use space to his advantage, if he can improve his puck retrievals in the offensive zone to continue and dominate, because that's kind of the hallmark of a superstar power forward is to be able to dominate in that offensive zone.

I think he's already better defensively than most star players coming into the draft, and so I have no issues with Bifield going at one, and I would love to see it. I think, like, the risk is a bit overstated. I think maybe a one just because we probably agree that Lafranier's is more an HL ready to make an impact, like right out of the gate. Correct. But he's also almost a year older. Of course, but I think there's a reasonable likelihood that whenever then HL does get

going again, we see both of these guys playing in the league, Lafranier makes a more immediate impact that if you had gone ahead and picked by field at number one, all of a sudden you're kind of sitting there for the first six months, having to answer a lot of questions. right so i think that's where the risk is i think in terms of the actual evaluation of the player from everything i've seen in red about byfield like sure the ceiling is through the roof and he could be at getty amalkin but i think even more realistically like the worst case scenario is still a really good player because he has the skating right like most times if if you're saying about the risk reward of a big center like this the only way they wouldn't pan out is if they're kind of stuck in mud

and they can't move around and they get to NHL and all of a sudden that's exposed. I think for Byfield, like people might get irritated if he doesn't use his physicality enough, I guess, but ultimately in terms of the actual skills, it's like very translatable to the NHL level no matter what. Well, that's just it, is that we don't see this package of skills come together really ever.

And so his size with his skill and his skating, it's just there's no real examples of a player like him not working out. And so the question just is how high can he go? is that can he reach that true ceiling or is he going to middle out a little bit, but even still the middle part of his upside is still, you know, extreme. Yeah, like I would say worst case scenario, he's a second line winger. Maybe he doesn't pan out at center. But if you told me, okay, you're potentially drafting Evgeny Malkin 2.0 here.

Like, I'm sprinting up to the stage and screaming his name and then we're leaving. He's got the jersey and we're heading to New York because Evgeny Malkin, like Cam said, how many players are there like if getting malcon in this league who are that big that good and have that set of hands like there's there's maybe two or three yeah i think i don't want to compare him to malcolm i feel like it's unfair to buy a field because malcolm's a generational talent but i think like a reasonable worst case scenario is like kevin hayes what do you think about that yeah that would be that would be the bottom the bottom expectation kevin hayes just made 50 million dollars on a contract It look good doing so for the flyers, I must say.

Yeah, he's a good looking guy too. Yeah, good players. So, yeah, I mean, if you can get like a 6-5 passer who can move around and do stuff, like that's a pretty good, pretty good bottom floor there for him. But I think it's kind of a blessing and the curse of being, of having that kind of bigger frame. Like we've seen it time and time again where it looks like compared to a guy who's 5'9 and has to make three or four steps compared to one step that Bifield makes, it looks like he's not working as hard as that other play.

or like you just you always think that oh he's bigger and stronger than everyone he should be using that physicality at every shift and so i think sometimes players like this um get very unfairly knocked for stuff that isn't actually true or um isn't like in their control and and that's why i kind of feel for them because we see it time and time again where big players just have these just unrealistic expectations of what they should be doing with their size and speed pretty much every time they're on the ice yeah i think that's spotting on too. And, you know, people look at the size, they look at the stats, and they just expect a certain type of player. And then you, you actually watch him play in that long, fluid stride

generate so much power in the hands. Like, you know, I always say kind of like prime Jason Spetsa the way he can handle the puck. And so, yeah, obviously I've, I pumped him up enough here for today anyways. All right, Rachel, well, you're on the clock then at number two for the L.A. Kingsen. So in no surprise, I'm going to take Alexie Laffer and I think that two is basically the floor of where he's going to end up if the Rangers decide to go by field at one. I think Lafranier goes to two and I think L'A. is going to be very happy with that. Immediately steps in, immediately an impact player, probably playing on the top line in L.A. Could see him definitely fitting well with Kopitar and kind of inject some youth into that lineup.

I think that no matter where Lafranier goes, he's going to have a positive impact. I mean, there's not much that this kid can't do. And so I've enjoyed watching him since his first year in the queue. And I thought he was terrific then. I think he's terrific now. And I think if anything, he's become a bit of a victim I've seen of people over-analyzing and nitpicking his game just because they've had so long to evaluate this player. I think it's hilarious that he had 112 points in 52 games in the queue this year.

and there was questions raised about how motivated and stimulated he was playing in a league that was so far below his talent level, right? Like, it's like, oh, he could have probably been a bit more engaged. It's like, he had 112 points in 52 games. What is that going to look like if he is engaged? It's going to look like a lot of points. I mean, I guess if, yeah, when you have 105 points in 61 games the year before, it's fair that you should feel like you've all grown that level.

But it is important to note that if he was born 26 days earlier, he would have been in last year's draft, whereas if Quentin Byfield was born 26 days later, he would have been in next year's draft. So something to consider for sure. But let's talk about, because I do think we, Lafranier probably will go number one to the Rangers. I kind of want to talk about that fit a little bit because obviously if you look at their depth chart, wing is their strong suit. Whereas down the middle, they basically have Zabinajad, and I think they're hoping he'd will can develop into something more, but he still hasn't shown that he can take that leap in that HL level.

So what do you, obviously, I think if you're looking for fit and it's like very close, you'd say, okay, Bifield makes a bit more sense sort of positionally. But wouldn't you say that just watching Lafranier play, he sort of plays like one of those wingers that basically is a center just because the puck will probably be going through his stick anyway. So he'll be kind of dictating the play regardless of if he's on the wing or down the middle. Yeah, I think so. And that's what I've always said to. He's one of these rare wingers that the play will run through him.

You know, you see it. The guy like Paneraan does it. Hall has done it in his prime. These guys who love to carry. Yeah, Patty Kane. They love to carry the pock. They love to have it on their stick. They can do everything.

You know, a guy like Kane is probably a little more playmaker than Lafranier is, who's got this devastating release. And, you know, talking about how he was maybe a little under-motivated in the queue, while he still just scored so many NHL goals there where he just shifts it a little bit through the D-Man's legs and by the goal he's ear with so much velocity. So, yeah, I think he's going to drive play for what. whatever line he ends up with, whoever his center is, because it'll be really interesting to see.

You're absolutely right, you know, like as it stands right now, Ryan Strom is their number two center. And long term, I think you could do better than that. So maybe, you know, with Panarin locked up there and him and Zabinajad as, you know, a potential one too, it's, it's going to be interesting to see what they do to fill that hole and try to get both their top left winger as an elite centerman to work with if they, when they take Lafranier at the top. But, you know, his game is predicated on, you know, he's got strength, he's got skill.

and I've been really impressed with how he's improved to skating over the last two seasons. It's something that I projected as kind of slightly below NHL average. And as it stands right now, I would call it slightly above NHL average. Yeah, and his skill level, like when it's that high, those players typically tend to kind of make people play at their preferred pace anyways. So as long as you're not a complete liability with your skating, like, I think average is perfectly fine with that skill level because you're just going to be bringing everyone down to your level anyway. So you're going to control the flow of the game. What's a reasonable comp then? Because I was thinking,

because of the playmaking and the passing, Jonathan Hubertoe, and maybe that's a lazy one because of they both played in the queue. But you seem to think that, like, his shot is much, much more of a weapon than Hubertos is. Yeah, I, you know, and a really not a perfect comparable.

I've called him Huberto on steroids, too. I think he's an improved, Huberdo, but, you know, a guy like David Pasternak. That's what I, that was my player comp. Yeah. Yeah, not crazy. Not crazy to see that. type of potential there.

Wow. All right. I like it. Okay, is that enough on Bifield and not from here? Can we move on to number three or is there any other things? I feel like that people are interesting. I feel like, can we all agree that they're the top two prospects in this draft? Is that kind of the discourse in this room right now?

Oh, yeah. Okay. Perfect. Okay. So I've got number three here, picking for the Ottawa senators, who we should note have in the top hundred. they're picking 3-5-28-33-53-52 59 61-64 71-95. That's a lot.

Yeah, a lot of options there. Okay, so I'm picking number three. I think when Cam and I did this with Chris Peters last time, I had number three as well, and I took this same player. And I'm going to take Marco Rossi. Yes, short king. I've been on this island since the start of this process, much like Cam has with Byfield, and I'm sticking with it.

I'm just going to make a couple points about Rossi here, and then I'm curious for your take on it. But I really do wonder if he were, I wonder how many people knocking him and having him at 18 have even watched Marco Rossi play as opposed to just maybe looked at his height. Because if he were six foot, I guarantee the consensus opinion on him would be as a lock for number three, maybe. And everything I've watched from him, his height makes absolutely no. difference. He's 185 pounds. He's built like a tank. He's so strong on the puck. We just watched a postseason where five-foot-10 Braden point put on like a Sydney Crosby level of a puck possession clinic where no one could take the puck from him because he was so low to the ground and was so strong with his lower body. And he was just making people look silly basically playing keep away with it. And I see a lot of that with Rossi where he's going to win a ton of puck battles. It's not going to be an issue at all. It's 20-20. At 5. I'm not worried about him going down the middle of ice and getting hit by a head hunting defenseman.

No one's really doing that these days. So I just think you look at the complete package, 120 points in 56 games. I mean, what am I missing here beyond the fact that he's 5 foot 9? I think the question that some people would raise is that how many 5 foot 9 number one centers are there in the league? And, you know, we give a little grace there and call Braden Point, you know, who's not, he's a little bit bigger. But, you know, there aren't a ton. And that's okay. I'm with you.

Is that, you know, does Brad Marchant being 5 foot 9? Does that impact his game? Not so much. And we're looking at a similar styled player without some of that nasty. And so, you know, he's, like you said, he's built strong. He's thick. He's strong down low. I was just looking to see if I could find a clip because I can't remember who it was against.

But as Rossi is a D minus 1 kid as a 16, 17 year old, going into the corner with a guy six foot five, you know, who's got 40 pounds on him. And he just bends low and he looks like Sidney Crosby out there. the guy just flipped right over him, he came out with the puck, no problem. I don't think his strength is going to be any issue when he moves up to the NHL. Yeah, I don't either. And I don't think I would not have taken Rossi at three, but if I were Ottawa, I probably would have taken him at five because I think he's going to be there.

I completely agree with the fact that the height thing, Cam mentioned, there's not a ton of tall centers or of short centers. But I think that we're starting to see a shift in the fact that, height doesn't necessarily matter as much. And the one thing that Rossi does that the hockey men love is he is extremely competitive on the puck. Like he wins his battles. He goes in. He's an absolute nuisance. I think he can play the PK because he's so smart. He could definitely play the P.P. So he's in all situations player. And I think that's also really important. To me, there's not really a doubt that he's going to score. But I do think he has,

up as a winger as opposed to a center at the NHL level. But I still think it's a highly talented player and definitely a player for me that I wouldn't have outside the top five. Like I think that taking him at three would raise eyebrows, but I don't think that it's necessarily an error. I was watching the scouting video on him and he brought up some stats from the games he tracked where 32.5% of his shot attempts were from high danger. he had an 82% offensive zone carry-in rate.

I mean, he was just a monster on the puck. And you're right. I think the senators can probably get him at five. And if he's available there, I think you don't think twice about it. I'm really curious to see it's projecting down the road. But the thought of pairing him with Brady Kachuk on a line is very interesting to me because Kachuk can kind of insulate him a little bit in terms of the size. but both guys love to play in tight around the net.

Cachuk led the league in high danger attempts this year. And I just think that would be a really fascinating combination. And then obviously, I mean, he played his junior in Ottawa as well. So I just, I don't know. I love Mark Horacee. And I think, in my opinion, he's the third best prospect. And maybe it's a bit overcompensating just for the people who knock him because of the size. So I'm like, no, you know what?

I'm sticking to Markorasi here at three. But that's just how I feel. And he's a short king in my heart. all right what are we doing with four then all right well i'm up at four for the detroit red wings um i'm going to take lucas raymond here um i think the biggest question work about him was there was there was just so little sort of uh meaningful data to work with because he was playing less than 10 minutes a game last year and we talked about this a bit of the start but the early return are very promising.

His season high last year was 1258 already this year in his three games. He's played 1248, 15, 13, 13, and his most recent game, 1808. He's got a goal and assist so far. I just, I love his game. I think he's one of those players where you could sort of just run your offense through him, especially on the power play. Just give him the puck and let him make decisions,

and he's going to make the right ones. And those players are incredibly valuable. So I don't know. What are the reservations beyond last year's sort of data? to a hundred rating managers. Because watching him, he looks like the complete package. I have very few reservations on Lucas Raymond. Yeah.

You know, he's not overly big. So he's 5-11 and 170, 175 sort of thing. So he has some filling out to do to handle the smaller ice when he does come over. But, you know, I've been saying this about him for 18 months is he has that rare trait of escapeability. And so he can find himself with possession amongst two or three guys closing in on him. And somehow he comes out of there unscathes with possession and sets up a teammate who's now obviously open. So he has that gravitational pull where he can pull defenders and yet still come out successful with it.

And so I don't think that the transition to the smaller ice, even at his size is going to be that big of an issue. You know, I'd love to see a little more speed. Like we could say that, but every player basically, though, is that, you know, crank up a little more two-step quickness on him. And now we're talking about a guy who could potentially have breakaway speed at the NHL too. So the reservations are very few. I don't think there are any, but he has a couple things to work on. But like we said, we've already seen what he can do now in a small sample with proper deployment. And he was in a situation last year where if him and Alexander Holt switch spots for their

SHL teams is that, you know, no one would have been, no one would have been talking about it even an issue as him not being a locked in top five talent. And that's exactly what he is. And he should absolutely go in the top five. Yeah, like I think what's likely to happen is that like Ottawa will take Stutzel at three and that Detroit will take perfetti at four. Just because that's kind of who they've been linked to. But I also think that with Lucas Ramon, like Cam said, there's so many few, like there's

so many things he does really well and so few things that he needs to work on. I think the path for Ramon to have success in the NHL is maybe a little bit easier than some of the other players in terms of his development because realistically I think it's just getting stronger and that's our very much the easiest thing to do well yeah and so I think when he does get stronger yeah he's an 18 year old he probably will get stronger exactly so I think that um taking raymond here uh is a great pick because I think he's going to be um a very very good talent to come like I think he's a top line winger um for the majority of his career.

Yes. Yeah, I think so too, which is why I took him forth. All right, so five on the clock, Rachel, you're up. Okay, so I just said that they're going to take him at three, so I'm definitely going to take him at five. Tim Stutzler, and I have my reservations about this player. I just think that there are some things that don't necessarily translate about him, but he's highly talented.

He's got a ton of skill. He plays on the perimeter a little bit too much for my liking, but I thought when he was against his own age group at the World Juniors, he did a better job of playing in the middle. That's definitely something he's going to have to develop, but he's a dynamic skater, dynamic skill. He shoots the puck well. There's a lot to like about him,

and I think that he also has a very, very high ceiling. It's just, I think his path to get there is a little bit more difficult than some other players at the top end of this draft. Yeah, I think it's kind of crazy to have him a second on the board, which is what Bob McKenzie had based on talking to scouts. I do too. I think, I think that's a classic example of trying to sort of think differently and kind of like the trendy pick.

Like, certainly you could feel that as the process was going along where it's like, oh, yeah, well, yeah, Byfield's great, but what about Stutz's a lot of easy and him? And I get it. Like you watch him. He's such a dynamic skater and it lends itself so well to the 2020 game. I think watching some of the tape in when he was playing the league games, it doesn't look very comparable or translatable to what you'd see on an NHL surface. It looks like that he's got a lot of empty space to use his speed and skate into.

And I'm very curious to see how much he'll be able to transfer that in terms of cutting in tight and getting into the dirty areas on the NHL surface, but I don't know, like at worst, he seems like he will be a dominant sort of neutral zone player similar to a Nicholas Eler's type, a Nikola Euler's type, right? So that's kind of the high end for him, but just in terms of the talent, the skating, I get why people watch that and are enamored thinking what he could do in today's NHL game. You know, I think that someone told me a few years ago that the litmus test for a scout is whether they look at Jake Frattagnan and Jr. and saw a star or saw a third-line player. And I think that we're we're maybe looking at a similar situation here, maybe on a lesser degree with Tim Stutzla,

is that, you know, I see all those skills too that he has. He has the dynamic speed. He's going to be a transitional player that's going to impact the game and gain possession of the zone, and that's going to be beneficial. But like you said, when you watch him in league play, it's easy to see him do all these highlight real moves, you know, deacon around defenders and having all this room to go behind the net and set up guys is that he's not going to have that time and space. And so maybe he can adapt to it when everything shrinks down and he's closed down. But I don't see him setting up his deeks well enough to pull any of those off in the NHL.

I don't see him assessing two, three options and making the correct decision. I see him missing passes in the neutral zone by three feet behind or in front of players. I see all these habits that I honestly, like, it's disappointing for me because I was one of the early champions of him. I think I had them eighth overall when I released a year ago. for the first time when he was probably looked at more of as a teens or in the 20s pick. And then the hype has just grown exponentially. It's like a train that doesn't stop.

Right? And I'm not used to being a wet blanket. And unfortunately, I've had to throw it and douse some of the flames on him a little bit. It's that, you know, he's going to be a good player because his speed is going to allow him so many opportunities. But at the same time, it's just, you know, I saw Mark Edwards said that he's a lot closer to Lafranier at one than Byfield is to him at two. And for me, that's just, I'm not sure what players were watching to look at that. It's because, you know, not every play is going to translate to the NHL. And that's a huge part of this business is assessing people as that, you know, yeah,

that's a great goal in the DEL where the back pressure is like, you know, men's senior league level versus. I was going to say it's non-existent. Right, exactly. You see that in beer league sometimes at that level of back check. And so, you know, I think Stisla is going to be a player. I've got them seven or eight or wherever I put him on my final board. I have him eight. Yeah, and I think that in that top ten is fine.

Yeah, like the reason I took him at five is because I think Ottawa has two top five picks. I think they're going to take him at three anyways if he's there. But I think that I talked about how high his ceiling is. And I think it's okay to take someone that has that high of a ceiling if you think he's going to hit it. And I really do believe that Ottawa thinks he's. he's going to hit it. I personally don't, but I think that Ottawa does.

And so when you have two picks in the top five, you can afford to take a swing like that, where at least like the players within range, a lot of people have them at two, most have them at three. So I think it's going to be okay that Ottawa takes that swing. But I personally, I have Stutzel at eight on my board.

And that's just because of the things that Cam just talked about. but like the habits are are very concerning. And I mean, Cam can attest to this. There is nobody in our EP ringside chat that backs the Germans more than me. But I just think here, like, it's very difficult to ignore some of the very poor habits that he has. But I just see Ottawa taking that swing because if he does pan out, it's a home run at 5. Well, it's also like you zoom in on it. Like if you're watching his tape and you go on like ISO cam, it's like, wow, that is.

such impressive skating and then you like zoom out slowly and then you just see there's no one around him at any point on that ice surface and in that league and you're like well that's literally never going to happen at the NHL level so what's he going to do and all of a sudden that space shrinks and you just can't go unabated from one end to the other now what I will say I have him at six on my board just because I think that the skating talent is dynamic enough that even if like the scoring doesn't reach an elite level he's going to be a very useful transition player and I think that's a very undervalued thing in the game. But Michael McCurdy was tweeting about this recently about how much the game that the NHL level

has shifted over the past handful of years where a shot off the rush is like twice as likely to go in as a shot not on the rush, basically from a stagnant offensive zone possession. And so with the game transitioning so much towards just, I mean, we saw it in the Stanley Cup final where that was basically the star's entire offense, they were thought of as a kind of grinded out, a cycle team. But in reality, they were just trying to score off the rush whenever the opportunity presented itself. Having a guy who can get you the puck there and move it across the ice is going

to be incredibly valuable. So I think his particular skill set lends itself very well in that regard. I'm just curious to see, like, whether he'll be able to achieve that ceiling. So I agree. I think at some point it's worth it. I think having him in the top three even is just way too rich for my blood. it's definitely too rich for mine okay so cam you've got six and seven here so you're picking for the ducks at six

and you're picking for the devils at seven the ducks are going to trade this pick aha you think so hey no we should do some trades that'd be fun anybody want anybody want six no all right no you have to take holes here i am you know i am too i'm taking i'm taking the shooter uh he's got the top top release in the class he has so many ways in his bag of tricks to beat you. And so whether that's in flight off the rush,

which he is excellent at finishing, even at the men's level of the SHL right now, he has that shot. He can employ it in different ways. So he has that big, long whipping wrist shot that generates a ton of power and he can be staring the goalie dead in the eyes and everybody knows where it's going

and it still whizzes by his ear and under the bar. He has the ability to keep his hands in the same position to be that triple threat where am I going to deek, am I going to pass, am I going to shoot, and still get off a quick, quick release and hit his spot. You know, obviously he's an assassin on the power play. Honestly, I see this kid as being a legit threat to score 40 goals in the

NHL with that, you know, rare chance of hit in 50 is that he's that type of player. I lend it. His shot is, you know, as impressive to me as Patrick Linae was when he was a draft eligible player. He has, you know, the difference between those two players right now is that he has a fire in his belly. All he wants to do is score goals and win games. And I've heard that from people in the.

Sweden for years now, but especially when he transitioned up to the SHL last year as a 17 year old that he was welcomed with open arms because it took about a minute for the rest of that team to figure out like, this kid is going to be one of our best players in a hurry, but he's not afraid to just, you know, assimilate perfectly into the group. He wants to win. He wants to compete. He wants to work hard in practice. And you can't understate how valuable that is in a player transitioning up. And when they run into a situation where it's going to be harder to score goals, he's not going to step into the league in score 40. and there's going to be some hiccups.

There's going to be long droughts like there is for any goal score. But he's one of these guys that I think is a good bet to push through that and find a way to get his goals any way that he can. And just a really fun player. Anaheim needs right winger. So it's perfect for them. They need high octane offense. And how about him and Trevor Zegra's playing together? That is going to be just filthy.

So hopefully Anaheim hears this. And they're like, you know what? That's a really good idea. Yeah, because they just love taking defensemen. Right. And when you have Drysdale and Sanderson sitting there, like part of me think that's going to be so hard to overlook for Anaheim, but I'm totally with you.

Like if Holt gets the six, and I think he will, I think Anaheim, A, I think you could make the argument that Drysdale might be the best player available, but I think it's the argument between those two players. And I think that at that point, the ability to potentially score 50. Like, I think there's a potential he scores 30 in his rookie year.

whenever that is. And I think that when that lends itself to success, and so you want to take the goal score because scoring goals is the most difficult thing to do in this league. And I think if you can put a potential 40, 50 goal score on your team, that's something that you have to do. Anaheim loves drafting defensemen. They also love drafting Swedes, though.

So maybe they could have balance out and work in its favor. They could take holds here. but Helga Grons at number six. I think I hate to sound like a like a sort of like a hockey guy here, but I love that the goal he scored so far this year. It was just like a greasy rebound around the net. Like I love to see that because that was one of my concerns. Remember last time we recorded Cam like a lot of what I saw last year was like it's a lot of like perimeter stuff and shooting from far out. And when you have a shot like he does, I get it.

But I'm just worried when you translate at the NHL, like how often, how many guys can consistently, we've even seen with Line A where he's sort of regressed where it's really tough to consistently beat goalies from far out. And so if he's going to be scoring from all over the ice, all of a sudden, that makes me much more confident that he's going to hit those goal scoring lofty projections to both the U-Line for him. Yeah, I think the really cool thing is that when he was a 16-year-old in the J-20 in the Super League, he could literally score at will from anywhere on the ice. So he was unloading bombs from just inside the blue line in flight. and he was and he was putting him in too and that's just like barred down right and that's not something you can do as you move up and that took him a minute to figure out uh you can't do that in the shl and he has figured it i saw him getting into those dirty crease areas more often as i get a coffee

brought to me how about this thank you uh um yeah i think he's i think he's going to be one of these guys that finds a way to score goals whether it's in a slot whether it's out high on the the pp at the top of the circle he's going to get in there and he's going to get those rebound goals and you're absolutely right you know his first of the year he gets in there on a greasy loose pock and he buries it gets down you know on one knee and puts it home with a with authority and i we're going to see that often from him cool well okay you're up at seven now uh so do you think the devils or who would you take if you were the devils yeah this that's who would i take if i was the devils and who are the devils gonna take is the other question i know right

that's the big question for sure is that i think that i think they just go bpa is is what they should do they have three first round picks and so if they want to get weird go get weird at 18 or at 20 and I project that they probably will take a big swing on someone later but you know I I it's a tough one here I think they're going to go with Jake Sanderson

they're going to take Sanderson here at this spot you know yes it's tough it's tough because I can't see me but I'm shaking my head and kind of Jake Sanderson is a very good player a very very good player and to be honest with you I just kind of flip flop between him and Perfetti at this

thought. I love Cole Profetti for his intelligence, but I think that we're going to see a D jump. And so I'm playing a little bit, I'm hedging a little bit what I would do, what they would do. Jake Sanderson, guys, I think that people are sleeping on him a little bit while other people maybe are really championing him, maybe too much getting him into the top five. But he's a player. At three. But he's a player who didn't have a ton to work with offensively in front of him at the program this year. And we're going to see that change when he moves up to the NCAA. You're going to see him work with some real talented players. and you can be like, oh, he has a lot more offense than I thought too,

because he's another player, you know, like Raymond, he's got the escapeability. He has, he has that skating ability that he can shake pressure and get it out in a hurry with his feet, with his pass. He's going to chew up minutes defensively. He's, you know, we can talk about Braden Schneider, but he's probably the best defensive defenseman in this group too and arguably one of the best skaters in the whole class too. So he has a lot of good things going for him. D comes at a premium.

Center comes at a premium. and so at this part of the draft, you know, it could have been, it could have been Dresdale, it could have been Perfetti, it could have been Sanderson, and I'm going with the American D-Man here. Yeah, I think there's going to be, if the draft plays out in this manner,

which I don't necessarily think it will, but if it gets to the devil's pick and both Drysdale and Sanderson are available, I think there's going to be a legitimate argument and yelling in that room, because there's definitely some people, like some scouts within the, level's organization that love Jamie Driesdale. And there's definitely some scouts in that organization

and some management that love Jake Sanderson. And so I think it's going to be really interesting. What I don't necessarily think is up for debate here. One, two of the best players available, or two of the three that you just mentioned are defensemen. And if you look right now at New Jersey, if there is a team that needs defensemen, it is them. And so I think you can't really even I wouldn't have perfetti here, but I think it's got to be one of Drysdale or Sanderson. I would take Drysdale, but like Cam said, I think the devils are going to take Sanderson because I think they have him high. I think they have both defensemen highly rated, but I think they have Sanderson higher.

I need to hire Jake Sanderson's PR team. The job they've done. I mean, wow. Since he last played a game, I feel like it's like, it's the meme. it's like no one, no one says anything, and then all of a sudden, Jake Sanderson's moving up the board. It's like, it's like the wire where when it was on T-Live TV, no one actually watched it. And then it had this kind of like second shelf life afterwards where people went back and started watching and they're like, wow, the wire is the best show. It's like, that's what happening with Jake Sanderson here where six months ago was like, yeah, I mean, he could be like a mid first round pick, maybe the third defense went off the board.

And then all of a sudden now it's like, is he the third best prospect in this entire draft? Like, it's crazy. I get it. I see the tools. The tape looks, especially as the year went along, very enticing. I love people talk about defensemen that can skate and rave about it. I love that he actually functionally uses that to gap up to defend the blue line. Like, it's a very useful skill.

Not nearly enough defensemen do that. And then at the NHL level, I agree. I wouldn't evaluate him based on points because for defensemen, that's so much about sort of just like opportunity and chance in terms of who's playing in front of you. And if he was playing with last year's group of forwards at that for the U.S. level, I'm sure he have a lot more points like Cam York did. But it'll be really interesting to see just like how high he goes. And at this point, I'm willing to believe that he will go anywhere in this draft because

why not? He's got the best PR team in the league. Yeah, he grows on you. You know, he's like, uh, Stanza. It just gets stuck in your. your head a little bit, the more you watch him and you see. And, you know, another thing is, he's one of the younger players in this, in this crop too. So there's a lot of developmental path ahead of him too. But I also think he's one of the more NHL ready players. He's obviously

not going to step in next season. He's going to go to school. He'll probably play two years at school realistically. But I think that he's going to be ready to come in and play a real role for whatever team takes him within a couple of years. And, you know, six foot two, he's already 185. He's probably bigger than that at this point anyway. So, you know, you're getting yourself. a guy who can skate like that, who can already play just suffocating defense, and I think the offense is going to come. And at that point, you're looking at a number one defenseman. And I think that's his upside.

And again, you know, nothing's a certainty in this business. But I think he's got a very, very good shot of being a top pairing defender. Do you believe he actually has a skill level for that, though? To be a number one, you know, I don't know if I see 60 point upside from him. I don't know if the creativity's there. But at the same time, you don't want. need necessarily need all the goddied point totals i think that you know yeah i think the ceiling of being a number one d would be more of a two-way impactful guy that can chew up 25 26 minutes a night uh you

know he's not going to be ryan suitor but you know you consider a guy ryan suitor as a number one defenseman despite never putting up monstrous point totals and i think that he's he's gonna be a better jacobtruba he's going to be you know in that mold a player maybe not as mean but with the same ability to impact the game i think that the a couple of couple things, especially with the devil should be pointed out to. One, they love NCAA players, and there's a reason for that, and I'm not going to get

into it, but they love their NCAA players, specifically their NCAA defenseman. And two, the one thing that's kind of come out, and Tom Fitzgerald has talked about it, is they need to have somebody on the blue line that isn't necessarily like a mean, mean

tough guy, but like Cam said, can get the job done, can shut it and makes life difficult for opposing players. And Sanderson does that. He's not necessarily the meanest, but he definitely cross-checks people in front of the net. And he makes life difficult in terms of he closes people down at the blue line. He has a good gap.

He wins his battles in the corners. And I think that all of those things are going to be really enticing, not just to the devils, but to any team. I think he's probably more of a two-three defenseman. But I think the fact that he can play top pair minutes because he plays a good gap and is a very good skater, I think that's going to be really enticing to the devils. It's going to be difficult for them to ignore. It's just a matter of are they taking Sanderson or Drysdale? Yeah.

I definitely agree that as the year went along, you started seeing more of that sort of offensive, creativity or freelancing where he was like doing spin moves to keep the puck in the zone and kind of walk in the blue line. But I do wonder just like, sometimes sometimes we maybe take for granted kind of those. offensive instincts or that creativity and not everyone has it. So I'm curious to see how he develops and playing with better players this year in the NCAA will be really interesting to see if he flourishes offensively. But Rachel, you're on the board now at 8 for the Buffalo Sabres. Okay, so this is an easy no-brainer for me. We're going Jamie Drysdale here. Yes, they have Rasmus Dahlene. They also have Rasmus Sirste Linen, who isn't very good. And Rasmus Aspland, all the Rasmai.

Yes, they have all of the Rasmai. I'm taking Jamie Driesdale. Getting Driesdale at 8 to me is incredible value. You want to talk about a player that is just terrific. He actually works out with somebody that I know. And I spoke to his assistant coach in Eerie about him. And just like all situations moves the puck well. he's an offensive dynamo.

Definitely can work on his gap control, but that's something that pretty much every single defenseman in their draft year needs to work on. And most defensemen in the NHL actually need to work on it. But I really like him the way he manipulates the power play, the way he moves the puck, his ability to get out of traffic, just all of it. It's such an enticing package.

And Buffalo can use all of the good players they could get right now, and Jamie Driesdale at 8 would be terrific for them. Yeah, I mean, so he played on a pretty crappy team in Erie, right? Yeah, they weren't very good. They were 26, 26 and 11 or something, and not very many notable talents around him, so I do wonder. And then he went to the world juniors and was really good. Look great, yeah. So, yeah, just for defense, when you're playing with lesser players like that, we touched on

of Sanderson, but it's like, it's really tough sometimes when you're dependent on getting the puck to someone and them doing something with it. A lot of times plays can just die in defense and can look worse because of that. His tape is is very enticing in terms of how sort of smooth and effortless everything looks, maybe effortless to a fault sometimes. But I really like his ability to just cover a ground. And I think he's going to be, you mentioned Souter with a, with Sanderson. I think of Ryan Suter's ability to just like eat up minutes because he expends so little. energy getting around the ice. I see that a lot with Drysdale where I think he's going to be able to just play out there as much as you want him to, similar to a Souter or Dowdy, just because

he's so sort of economical, I guess, with his movements. So I really like Drysdale. And I wonder what he's been thinking during this entire draft process, watching the opinions shift so much between him and Sanderson without anything really, like not by any of his fault by any means. Yeah, it's interesting for sure, because It's funny. I wrote a big article on him for EP Ringsside too, and I went into it thinking that it was going to be this glowing report on this amazing, you know, he's such a terrific skater and he has so much offensive creativity and he can walk the line and he can set up players and he can shoot it himself. And at the end of it, it ended up being a bit more of a critique than anything else because he's almost frustrating because he could do so much. He could. Right. You know, he has that ability at any given time on the ice. He's probably the best skis. He's probably the best skis. and so it's like get up and go like every time every time let's just go and then you know he he can sometimes miss better options that are available to him and so that i don't i'm just wondering if he has that that quick enough processing speed to assess and and realize that okay i got three options

number two is the best let's go um versus being like i'm taking first option here and it still might be fine but it's going to limit the effectiveness of that plague moving forward in in some instances so uh you know, I just, I really like them as a player. I often gravitate to guys that are, you know, not, not huge, but just have that insane skating ability on the back end. You know, I had Quinn Hughes, he was at number three on my board back when and, you know, Miro Hiscan, and I had it number two. And so I usually elevate these guys up my board.

But this one, this time, I've actually slid him back a little bit because I think the questions about his decision making, while they're not glaring to a fault, I think that they are reasonable to ask the question is that when time and space is, becomes even more limited in the NHL is his ability to process and make quick and decisive decisions going to get any better. And I think that that's a valid question and a valid concern. But at the same time, the physical tools, despite it being in not a huge package, are very, very enticing and very tantalizing. And I think a team will jump on him, you know, maybe earlier than we have here too. All right. I'm on the clock here with Minnesota at 9. And I have to take this player just because

he's the best player available. I don't personally love the player. Well, I'm concerned, but I have to take Cole Profetti here, right? Like, it's crazy that he's still on the board and the two defensemen went ahead of him. 111 points in 61 games behind just Marco Rossi and the OHL, 244 shots on goal, which was top 10 amongst names like Calli of McMichael and Nick Robertson. Bob McKenzie on his board, Adam 5th, ahead of Rossi and Raymond, which is a big, too rich for me. But I don't know, like, Cam, I know you had them really high on your recent board, and you seem to think that you're not too worried about the actual foot speed just because that processing speed we talk about will allow them to play much faster than skate fast. So it might

not be an issue. I don't know. Like, we did talk about Stutzla and how much teams are attacking off the rush now. And it does worry me a little bit because players who like just create an offensive zone is valuable. But, But if you're one dimensional in that regard, I'm concerned about what the offensive upside really is translating to the NHL. Yeah, you know, I liken him to a player like Nicholas Baxteram, who, you know, didn't have and never did have elite speed. But he had, he always had an elite brain. And, you know, he was obviously one of this generation's top passers. And having Olbechia next to him didn't hurt that one bit for his point totals.

But he was such an impactful player. And like you said earlier, Dim, is that, you know, the very best players, they dictate the pace of play. And so for Perfetti, I don't think his skating is all that bad. It's just average. And I think that that can still be improved upon. He's a player that is highly, highly intelligent. And I think that guys like that can break down their skill sets and figure out a way to improve them. And, you know, he's a hard worker.

He's one of these kids who had just an elite shot as a 16, 17 year old in his draft minus one, you know, blew up the Holinka, had a great season. And then came back in his draft eligible campaign and just added this layered distribution. game that was arguably top three in the CHL as a draft eligible kid. And so you put that together is that we're looking at a guy who's going to have that, again, that gravitational pull where everyone's going to come around him, but they're going to have to sag off to respect his past. They're going to have to close out to respect his shot.

And it's going to cause headaches. And I think that I value processing speed and intelligence and awareness, however you you want to dictate that or put a term on it is above all else. And I think that if you have that ability, you can overcome some flaws, including maybe not being the fastest skater. But that's really the only flaw because he does have an incredible shot. He plays well in the small ice with his puck skills. And then, you know, the passing division is right up there too. So I think this would be a home run for Minnesota to get themselves a future top six center who's locked in who has that one C upside as well.

Yeah. I think that processing speed is really important because it's much easier to sort of just look at a player and moving fast. and fall in love with it. But if you know where the puck needs to go or where everyone knows going to be before they're there, it gets you a long way. And it's kind of a bit of a cheat code. So I don't know.

We've also seen like instances where players who skate really fast but can't think that quickly aren't successful. And I think a good example of that is potentially Andres Athanasiu, where he's one of the fastest skaters in the league. But his brain doesn't necessarily keep up with, his speed and that hurts him, whereas you see maybe some slower skaters, but have great processing speed, they're a little bit more successful. And so with Perfetti, I mean, I don't think he's going to be there at nine.

I really don't. And that's just a testament to the fact, like, yes, he's small, I don't care. He's, like, it's really hard to ignore the fact that he has scored at every single level that he's been at and not just scored. he scored at an elite level. And so to me, like, that's just, it's too difficult to ignore. And he's really shown the ability this year to make passes. So he's not just a one-dimensional player.

And I think that that evolution shows me that he's kind of on a really good development curve. And I think if he gets himself into the right position where he's playing with some good players, he could develop into a player that scores 40. goals. Like that that really wouldn't surprise me and and maybe be that that 80 point player. Like I'm I'm high on perfetti and I think that Minnesota getting him when they are notoriously known for not scoring anything at any point in time. I think it'd be great for them because I think that he would inject some punch into that lineup that really they need. So at 10 on the board, if it goes this route and the jets are up, like, it's pretty much a slam dunk that they would take Anton Lundell, right? Yes.

Considering any of the center? It's too easy. Yeah. I don't know. Like, it's funny because he's kind of considered this like safe, boring option. But in terms of me picking him here at 10, I feel like I don't have too much to say about Anton Lundell. I feel like it's already kind of been covered and discussed. Is there any sort of like kind of more nuanced to this discussion?

Like clearly doesn't have the flashiest skill, but everyone seems to agree that he's going to be a really good player and very realistically be like one of those two-way second centers, which are immensely valuable at the NHL level and there aren't nearly enough of them to go around. And if you can get that guy at 10, it seems like a pretty good pick. I don't know. Is there more to it than that?

It seems pretty simple. I love them. I wish I could get him higher up my board, is that he's such a complete player. And watching him at the World Juniors two years ago is that he was, he was just doing things out there just so effortlessly, as a 16-year-old, just chucking sauce, getting in retrieving pucks,

being on the right side of players defensively, and then producing offense as well. He was leaned on in a big-time role for that club. And he's doing the same thing. He's wearing an A in the league this season. They just had their first game, and he scored himself a goal so far that I saw. he's a player and I think he's going to be one of these guys that just quietly goes about his business and impacts a game.

I liken him to a, you know, Pierre-Luc Dubois, a guy who rose quickly in his draft year because he had such a monstrous development arc that last season. But for Lundell, it's just been this steady progression of he is good. And what I wanted to see from him is to unleash that shot more often. And we've been seeing it through the preseason a little bit now early on in season two is that, yeah, I think he's got one C upside too. just maybe not elite 1C, but you know, on a depends on what team you're playing on, that he could be a top line center, but otherwise on a contender, he'd be a very, very good second line center. Especially behind Mark Shifley.

That seems like good combo for him. All right. So 11, the National Predators, Rachel, you're on the clock. What are you thinking? I'm going to go with Seth Jarvis. I was debating between him and a scoffer. of. But I'm going to go with Seth Jarvis. I think that there's a potential he might not even be there. And that's just a testament. The guy is so skilled. Mitch Brown in our EP chats, like, he loves

him. And I've started to watch him just because there's, like, not really a ton to watch. And I love all the same things Mitch does. He's well-rounded. Like, 42 goals this year, 56. assists. He's a facilitator. He's a scorer. And it's just kind of one of those things where he was not high on everyone's boards kind of going in, but then I think everyone sort of realized the impact that he was having in Portland and just how much of an offensive facilitator and bus driver he was. And if there's, A, he's the best player available for me right now. And B, if there's something Nashville needs, it's someone who can score. And so I think, first of all, I think John Hines would love this player because he fits right into the mold of the type of player that Coach Hines likes.

And so for me, Nashville taking him at 11 is almost a no-brainer. Yeah, he's so nifty and elusive kind of just dancing around with the puck. I think he's not the fastest mover for a 5-10 winger, but what I did see was he's one of those players that shifts gears very easily. so like he looks a lot faster than he actually is straight line because if you're defending him you're kind of on your toe like you're not really sure what he's going to do and so he can speed up or slow down really quickly and so that helps him get the places and like I think it's fair to wonder as a five-ton winger whether he'll be able to do offensively what he did last year in Portland because he actually was attacking so much around the net and in tight areas but I like that

he showed that he's capable of that and it wasn't kind of just like a one-trick pony so I don't I just think the volume of having 65 points in his final 31 games and how good he looked from the eye test, I get why people are a bit hesitant to fully buy in just because it kind of did come a little bit out of nowhere in terms of the production. And he is a bit undersized, but man, like the actual skill set itself looks very legit. Yeah, like I think it's super hard to ignore. And I think Cam will agree. I think he's seen Jarvis a little bit more than me. Yeah, I've watched a ton of Seth Dervis this season,

and I've had him as high as 10. On my final board, he ends up 14 just because, you know, I fell in love with a couple other guys. He's another one that I wish I could find a spot a little bit higher up the board. What kind of knocked him down is that he's such a high conversion finisher because he just gets into those greasy areas. Like he finds a way to get into the paint and muck it up and get the puck up and hurry into the back of the net.

And so the only question is that at 5 foot 10 at 175 pounds, obviously he'll pack on some weight, but is he able to get to those areas in the NHL as effectively as he does now? And so I think you're absolutely right that he's not a traditional speedy winger, but he's creative. He changes gears effectively. And he can let it rip. He can get burning and let a shot out from out high and beat a goaltender. So I think there's going to be some avenues for him to be a really impactful top six winger.

And at this spot, like Rachel said, I could see him going a little bit earlier than that, too, that he might find his way into that top 10. Or, you know, I know, you know, definitively one club has him in round three. So there is a wide range of opinions on this guy. And so I always see. This is where it gets silly. Yeah. Right.

And, you know, every team's going to have a different board and they're going to, they're going to value you guys differently. But I cannot see you thinking that he's not a top 75 guy in this group. you know, let alone like... That's a Braden Point situation there. Right, exactly. And that's what we might see. And he doesn't have the same speed that Point did or does, but you know, neither did Braden Point when he got drafted either.

So it's something that we'll have to look for. Cating is the easiest thing to improve, quite literally, other than strength. But strength is an off-ice thing. All right. Yeah. I think that's, yeah. Seth Jarvis needs to be in the top three rounds for sure. I like him.

I like him here. I add him a 12 on my board, so I think it's a very reasonable pick. Cam, you're up. the 12th pick for the Florida Panthers, which would be hilarious if you took Ascarov. You took my joke, yeah. But then, sorry, I apologize. But he's going to go at 13.

Just repeat, and then 13 with the hurricanes, you're also making that pick. So give me the next two guys. Let's hammer through this lightning round style. All right, for sure. All right. I won't lean into the askaroff here for Florida. And then they might sign a new goalie.

Maybe they'll go get Markstrom, too. No, for them, for the Panthers, I'm going to go with Dawson Mercer. And so I love this. he's an intelligent play creating forward maybe the best hands in the draft you know jeremy poye might give him a run for his money but he can just work the small small ice situation so so well and embarrassed players um not the speediest guy not the biggest guy six foot 180 but he's to me he's he's going to be a fun pro he you know made the world junior team as an underage player last year and played a

bit role for them and kind of moved up and down the lineup and whenever you see that that's that's a testament to a player's overall game when they come to Team Canada and they make it as a 17-year-old. I guess for him he would have been 18 already because he's an 01 birthday, but even still, that's kind of a feather in his cap. And you can see that coaches love this player. He's going to put up a ton of points this year playing with Hendrix Lapierre. If Lapierre can stay healthy, he's going to be a good one. He's got versatility, center, right wing.

I think the Panthers could use them all over their lineup. And he's going to be a fun one for him. And then, yeah, you guys nailed it. Yaroskov's going 13 to Carolina. I tweeted that out as soon as the lottery balls saved the Leafs from getting first pick and they ended up giving there as a way to Carolina is that ask her off. Can you imagine if he goes there? He's in my mind, it's, you know, it's debatable whether he's a top five talent in this group.

It's just whether or not, it's just whether or not you want to invest that much draft capital into a netminder because I've never. Could you see Ottawa doing it? I could see Ottawa doing it. I could see Detroit doing it. Like it's, he's so, so good. I've never scouted a goalie. who didn't look like a sure thing as much as he does.

Like he just looks like a sure bet to be a number one, maybe Vesna level quality netminder. And so, you know, you put that in Carolina with what they're building there is like, watch out. The East is going to be pissed. I spoke to someone who said that they think Askeroff is going to be better than Vasselowski.

And that is an astonishing comparison given how good Vasilevsky is. Yeah. I mean, I could definitely see him going nine to the wild. if he gets the 13 here, I don't see him moving past 13. Maybe Carolina doesn't take him. Maybe they trade that pick, but I do think he probably will not make it past 13. Yeah, I mean, he kind of checks all the boxes, and I think we talked about players that have benefited from getting that D plus one tape out there now for a couple games.

The fact that he's come out and stopped 76 of 78 shots in the KHL so far as an 18-year-old is immensely impressive. obviously has all the physical tools. I don't know. I guess the question for taking a goalie this high is because there's a misconception. People don't think that goalies aren't valuable. They're clearly the most valuable position. It's our ability to both project that performance and also for it to continue and keep up. If everyone believes that the talent in Ascarov is legit, then I guess the only question

is how long will it take for him to actually come and provide a meaningful NHL value while he's still a cheap asset before they have to pay him or whatever. And for Kerry Price in his draft plus three season, he basically played 40 games. For Vasilevsky, draft plus three, he was playing, and then draft plus five, he was playing 50 games already, and he was basically their starter. Varlamov, similarly three years after his draft. So I think that's kind of like a reasonable timeline. Probably it'll take a couple of years, but when he comes over, he'll probably be ready to

play a meaningful role for an NHL team, right? I think that's the kind of the perfect storm for him is that whoever takes him, they're going to know that we're going to expediate this train to the NHL because you can get him in in two years, have him playing as a one B situation where he's getting his feet wet. Then, you know, the next year again, Platoon may be stealing some starts and then year three, he's pushing for your starter. But you might still be able to extend him on a long contract at without paying huge money because he'll still be 22.

You know, you don't have to, you don't have to wait until he's a draft plus five. Ivan, he's a starter, and then he plays another year as a starter, and then you're paying him the big money that you might be able to rush this guy a little bit because he's ready. Like, he's, he could be playing full-time starter minutes in the KHL. The only reason he isn't is because he's playing for SCA, and they just jack up everything, and they're going to kind of baby him along a little bit.

But he's going to put up monster numbers in the K this year. He's going to do it again next year, and then I fully expect him to be ready to play 35 games in the NHL. Well, and if, let's say Carolina takes him, look at the goaltending in the Metro. You have Shasturkin in New York with the Rangers. You have Sorokin with the Islanders. You have sort of McKenzie Blackwood with the Devils, although I don't think he's at the level of Shasjurkin or Ascarov.

Then you have Carolina potentially with Ascarov. You have Philly with Carter Hart. Like, that is a murderer's row of goaltending in the Metro. That would be fun. Yeah, yeah. How about that Russian goalie factory? Vasselowski, Samsonoff, Shastrican, Sorokin, even a terrorist... Ascarov.

Kachetkov, Ascarov. I mean, it's looking pretty good. Yeah. I wonder, you know, it's really shifted where people don't really invest in young goalies now. And it went totally the other way where it was like 10 years ago. But I do think if the league does continue this movement of kind of getting younger and trying to find cheap ELC contributors, we've seen it with forwards. Defensemen have become a long bit slower now, but we're seeing teams rely on young defensemen.

If teams are actually willing to start playing goalies, when they're 20, 21 years old and kind of milking those cheap years, then all of a sudden they could kind of become more valuable assets. And clearly, with a guy of his talent level, and as Camp said, he seems to be pretty ready to go. It might not be the worst investment for someone to take, especially once you get to this point of the draft, there's going to be good players they go after this pick. But I don't think there's anyone with such can't miss upside where you can't justify

the lottery ticket that is Escarov at this point. Yeah, I'd agree. Okay, well, Rachel, you're up at 14 with Edmonton Oilers, who, it's like a 50-50 chance that they're going to trade this pick for someone who's probably not very good? I think Edmonton trades this pick. If they don't, I would be taking Jack Quinn here. He's a right winger, and you just plop him right next to Connor McDavid, and you hope that everything goes smoothly because he is.

is exactly the type of winger that Connor McDavid needs. He also, this is his range. And I think that with Quinn, I mean, if you look at his 52 goals, 89 points, I think only Nick Robertson maybe had more goals in that little amount of games. And Jack Quinn kind of grew on me. I wasn't a big fan of his at the beginning of the year, but as the year kind of went on, he was more consistent with his play. He was playing in more situations.

I thought there were multiple times I watched him and he scored a hat trick and all three goals were scored different ways and the one time he scored a shorthanded goal then he scored like a goal

kind of on a one-timer sort of thing but then the other one it was a greasy garbage goal driving to the net. So I think he's shown that he can score in a number of different ways that are transferable in the NHL it's not this outside shooter and he's got the speed

I mean, no one's got McDavid level speed per se that can think that quickly, but he's got good speed, he can think well, you can really tell that he anticipates well, and I think that the potential of him playing with McDavid or even Drysidal will be difficult to ignore for Edmonton. How do you feel about that, Cam? Yeah, I'm fine with it.

Again, he falls into that next range of forwards. You know, I think he's 17 on my board, but, you know, he knows how to finish, but he's not just that one-dimensional, like Rachel said. You know, he kills penalties for the 67s. He's defensively responsible. You know, I don't think he's as dynamic as many 50 goals scores in the OHL as draft eligible kids.

So I don't expect him to have that level of upside in the NHL, but I think he's going to be able to pot a ton of goals and be a consistent, reliable top six threat for them. And so, yeah, I'm cool with that at 14. Yeah, I think he's more of like a 2530 goal guy as opposed to Alexander Holtz or Cole Perfetti type. Yeah. All right.

Well, Cam, since you are our draft expert here, I'm going to trade you the 15th pick, the Toronto Maple Leafs for future considerations because I want you to just talk about someone here instead. I love it. Okay, so if it's the Leafs, I think that they would get, you know, they might get wet and wild and go for Bryn Schneider. I'm not going to do it, though.

I'm going to take my boy Roddy on Amaroff here, and I love this kid. And I've been higher on him. I've had battles with some of the team there in the slack for if you ring side on him all year. He's just a player. He competes. He's always on the right side of the puck. He has great balance.

He's got good core strength. He's not the biggest kid. And now we see he's seeing 20 minutes tonight in the KHL or even on the season. And he's putting up points. Like he let go of a beautiful wrist shot there on the power play yesterday. He's just one of my favorite players. I think he's going to be versatile around the lineup. He's going to kill penalties.

He's going to play in your power play. He's going to play in your top six. you know the leaps are loaded up there and they could go a bunch of different ways and especially on the on the blue line you know helga grons or brayden schneider or king ghouly um but for me i'm i'm going to take rhoda on ammer off in this spot and just because i don't think we talked about them in the last one either they're dim so we had to we had to find a way to fit them in this time all right well i gave you that pick for future considerations rachel i'll give you one here um i feel like every year there's a forward that somehow miraculously drops into the start of day two and they're like unavailable and they're like unavailable and that like 33 to 37 range, who is a name that you're thinking could be undervalued that you really like and might kind of fall either to late first or early second? Hendrix Lapierre, I think is my guy. He had a neck injury this past year, but he's dynamic with the puck. He's so good. And I personally, like, I think had he had the opportunity to play a full season. We're talking about this kid near the top 10, maybe not in the top 10, but I think

we're talking about him in like the Seth Jarvis range. But because of his injuries, I think that there's a potential that he falls into the 20s, if not right out of the first round. And if you've got a team that's willing to take a swing, like I could see a team like New Jersey or if Ottawa decides to keep their picks or not, who knows. I could see them taking a swing on this guy because there's a lot of tools there. And if you can develop and keep him healthy, there's a potential that you've got

a legitimate top two center there. Cool. I like it. All right. I think that's going to be it for the mock draft. I like it. I think we made some good picks. Hopefully Anaheim takes our advice and pairs egress with withholds.

That was our number one recommendation. plug some stuff. Where can people check the two of you out? What are you got in the works? What are you going to be doing during the draft? Give us a little couple teasers and a couple plugs. Yeah, for me, I'm doing all the work at Dober Prospects and EP Ringsside. We've got a lot of fun stuff coming up, just leading up to the draft.

You're going to see my name pop out on a ton of podcast here the next few days too. Hopefully not saying the same things over and over again. Yeah, you follow me on Twitter at Hockey underscore Robinson. And yeah, just out there doing the work. And now we can finally focus on the 2021 kids fully and completely. And I can put these other ends on, I can forget about them once they're drafted to teams. Yeah, I mean, I'm, there's no more staff and graph, at least for now.

So I'm just kind of on Twitter. I'm doing my stuff for EP Rinkside. Got a byfield development article coming out in the next couple days. but what's I guess maybe more interesting is over the next few months I'll likely have some academic articles coming out about some drafting and development inefficiencies in the NHL and so it's maybe just a bit of a different look at things and so I'm not as public as I used to be per se but there's definitely some some interesting research coming and so I'm kind of excited about that all right well this is a blast enjoy the draft it it really is the most wonderful time of the year and

I'm looking forward to it and we'll we'll catch up with both of you soon sometime down the road. Sounds good, buddy. Thanks for having me. Before we get out of here, I just wanted to once again thank everyone for listening to today's show and supporting the podcast and remind those of you that haven't yet for whatever reason you can help us out by just going and leaving a quick rating and review for the show. It only takes a couple minutes of your time. It's really easy to do just a couple clicks and it goes a long way to do. helping us and the show moving forward. So go give those five stars. You can leave a nice little personalized message or just keep it really simple, whatever you have time for and whatever you,

whatever you care to do. But really appreciate it. So thanks for listening. And hopefully you enjoyed the mock draft. Hopefully you enjoy the upcoming NHL entry draft. And we will be back very shortly to get ready for free agency and for signings and trades and looking forward to discussing all that player movement. So until then, here's the outro music. The Hockey P.D.O.cast with Dimitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey pdfast.