The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 38: We Haven't Had The Fun Coached Out Of Us

Episode Date: December 17, 2015

Jen Lute Costella joins the show to discuss the tracking project she presented at the RIT Hockey Analytics Conference earlier in the season, and the main takeaways she gleaned from it about how different player types work together. We also look into how Artemi Panarin and his creativity have been a breath of fresh air for the league, and how the Chicago Blackhawks stack up against some of the other Central Division powerhouses. Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show (www.hockeypdocast.com/donate). There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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since really the day we started recording, but with busy schedules and sort of difficulty getting the timing down, it's taken a little while here, but the days finally come. It's Jan Lute Costella. Jan, how's it going? I'm, it's going great. How are you? I'm good. I'm really happy to have you on.

I mean, you've been kind of blowing up lately. You're on ESPN's most impressive people in hockey, age 40 and under, which was pretty cool. Yeah, I guess I'm just glad that I made the age Like cut off actually You know Yeah It's not like my last year of eligibility

Well, I'm 39 So you know Like it would have been Cutting it pretty close after that one So glad I got in while I could For sure We'll talk about the Blackhawks and stuff later on And some of the work you're doing

But before like The first thing I wanted to talk about Was this The presentation I guess you can call it, you put together for the RIT conference a couple months ago now. And I guess I'll just sort of open up the floor to you to discuss the kind of the, I guess, the outline of what you discovered in your project and what you talked about for those that kind of didn't catch it as it was happening.

And then we'll dive into it a little bit. Yeah. Well, basically, I had a bunch of volunteers helped me who were really awesome. And we tracked all the goals and assists for a big slew of players, like 73 players, I think it was. for the past three seasons of hockey to kind of see how those goals came about, how the players were scoring. And I had this idea that are there things that are in common when these guys are successful? Are there things that they're doing that we could kind of like start to pick out characteristics

or treats like, hey, this player tends to score a lot off the rush or this guy scores a lot with one timers or whatever? but we really I just like really expanded it it kind of went crazy with it and put in you know all sorts of different things that we could look at from you know what zone the second assist came from

to you know we used stop watches to time how long the puck was on the player stick before he shot it and you know ended up scoring or how long they were in the offensive zone before they scored and things like that and so it was really

fun and it came up with a lot of like really neat results and a lot that I didn't expect which was kind of interesting and you know kind of started me down a path of exploring different ways that we can

start to catalog like what different players are good at instead of just you know if you're watching the game and somebody's like yeah this guy always finds the soft areas in coverage you know and that's why you score so much well is that really true Is that really what he's good at or is it that he plays with this, you know, ridiculously creative passer or what is it?

And so I kind of wanted to start to be able to, like, put numbers and evidence behind some of the things we just accept as, like, a truism about certain players. Right. And you kind of, I like the part where you broke down the types of forwards in particular based on, like, all-around guys, finishers and do-it-yourself guys. And the name that kind of stuck out to me in the Do It Yourself category was Matt Dushain. And it makes sense because if you look at his kind of linemates over the past couple years, it's a who's who of aging, kind of slow, less talented wingers that he is, right? And it makes sense that, especially playing down the middle, he kind of had to shoulder the massive load there and kind of felt the need to do it himself. And I've always viewed him, especially in the past, I guess, year and a half or so, as the perfect microcosm for

the abs as a whole where he's like this really talented guy that should be doing so much more than he is and he just seems to be kind of spinning his wheels and being stuck in the mud and it makes sense based on kind of what patrick wall was asking him to do but i don't know i guess it just kind of illustrates the point that there's you know all these guys have these certain skills but then ultimately it comes down to the positions they're put in and and the system they're playing in that sort of helps them like utilize those talents and optimize their results Yeah, and, you know, I think I was joking the other day that I was going to write like a hockey manifesto, you know, and that's kind of a joke, but it's kind of like true, too, in that, have like theories on this stuff that, that project really helped me kind of put together. And, you know, a lot of times are thinking in the way we go about putting together lines or using players in hockey is really kind of burdened by.

these artificial constructs, these like the rules, you know, this is how this certain player is to be used. Right. So if he's a center, he's going to take all the face off and he's going to play this, you know, in this area of the ice in the defensive zone. And he's going to play, you know, here are his responsibilities in the offensive zone. And I think Matt D. Shane is kind of a perfect example of why that doesn't work and of why we need to unburden ourselves of this kind of like really limited thinking and how we can use different

guys. You know, Dushain is so fast and he's so creative. I mean, if he gets the puck anywhere near his defensive blue line, he's gone. It's just, you're not going to catch him. He's, dude is like a speed demon. It's amazing to watch. But, you know, if he's not able to get the puck anywhere near the blue line because he's buried deep down on the boards in the defensive zone, you're setting him up to not be able to

succeed. You're setting him up to have to work that much harder just to get to the place where he can be successful. And so I think that's kind of the thing that this project was looking for is how do we figure out where the real skills are for each of these guys? And how can we then, how do we measure it and then how once we know what we've measured, how do we then, like, put them in the best possible scenario to really exploit those skills?

Because, like you said earlier, Matt McHashane, he's amazing. He's an amazing player. But, you know, he's been, like, trudging along with, you know, carrying the weight of a whole line most of the time. Right. When, in fact, you know, maybe a complimentary player here or there

who would really help out and really make him able to kind of be the score that he seems to be able to be, and just really hasn't had the opportunity to be. Well, so sticking with Dushain as the prime example here, so Patrick Gaw kind of made the adjustment of, I guess you can call it an adjustment, he just loaded up his top line where he put, he took Matthew Shea and off the center position and put him on the wing with McKinnon and Landisg. And it's no surprise that that line is doing a really good job for Colorado. I mean, they're over 50% possession, which for anyone on Colorado to be able.

over 50% possession is like a pretty important thing. It's an achievement. Yeah, exactly. So, and just watching them. I mean, I was watching the Blackhawks game yesterday. And it's, it's remarkable. Like, I was flipping back and forth from one game to another on Game Center. And every time I'd flip over there and Duchenne and McKinna would be on the ice,

like, it would take my eyes maybe 30 seconds or so to just like adjust to the speed they were playing at. Like, it's not even how fast they skate. It's the decisions they're making, like how fast they pass the puck and shoot it. and everything they do, it feels like someone's kind of holding the fast forward button down while they're playing. And it's fascinating to see that Duchenne and McKinnon, obviously they're two great players. But I think the thing that makes them so special together is they sort of can match each other

in terms of that pace they play with. And I feel like for a guy like Dushain, when you stick them with a player like a Ginnla, for example, he just like, it's not a Ginnla's fault. He's just in his mid to late 30s and he can't really keep up with Dushain. And I feel like people need to keep, keep that sort of stuff in mind where like there's limiting factors for players like beyond just oh his linemates his line mates suck they're not they're not good that that's why he's not producing

well there's more to that i think it's sort of like a stylistic clash yeah and you know like if she's going to set up again law and like you know a ginla loves to to score on the rush too but he's like the one-timer finisher guy who's going to you know he's going to join you on the rush and he's going to bury it when you give him a decent pass um but if he's nowhere to be found because Dushain's already like way up the ice and everybody else is like, oh, he's already down there. It doesn't really play the Ginnlostranks either. You know what I mean? Right.

So, you know, I think obviously that Landisg-McKinn-Duchin-Dashain line can do amazing things. They're all three really talented. And Landis-Gog is a very different player than the other two. And it's kind of similar to, I think, that the Enizumov, Kane, Panarin, or however you want to say his name. bread guy in Chicago because you have like the super creative speedy wingers who are going to make you know like bananas passes plays steals things like that and you have like the workhorse all around responsible guy in the middle who's going to kind of glue the line together to make it into what it really needs to be to be successful and I think Landiscagg is that for them

yeah absolutely um okay one final thing project before we move on other stuff. I noticed that you were very high on Gus Nyquist, and obviously, I mean, that's not a surprise. He's a great player. But I was kind of fascinated to see the note you made about how he wasn't really benefiting from very many assists from his teammates and looking at the guys he's played with. I mean, it doesn't really intuitively make a lot of sense that he would be sort of needing to do all the work by himself. Like, we just talked about what would do Shane. I don't know, like from watching some of the tape on him. What kind of stuck out to you about the way that he got the job done?

You know, Nyquicks is interesting. And yeah, he's kind of like one of those players that when you find out more about him, you're like, I have to watch this guy play. He's just a fun guy to watch. And, you know, I think Nyquist is weird because I think there have been times in the past that he's so creative. And I think creative players, need to be handled in a way that's a little bit different than every other skilled guy. These guys who rely on just risk-taking and creativity and let their skills do the rest, they kind of have to be like, people put them in the peach tradition and make sure that they have, you know, a good base in there to kind of flourish with that creativity.

And I think sometimes when you get into a really disciplined, really structured environment, for those guys, they lose some of that creativity and they kind of, you know, lag off a little bit just because they, I don't know, like they're not being given the opportunity or the environment in which they thrive the best. And so I think with Nyquist,

sometimes if his line is too structured, if his line is too, like, too defensively responsible, I know that sounds silly, but then he doesn't do very well because that's, not how he, like, it's not how he flourishes. When he's given the ability to kind of play high in the zone and, in the defensive

zone and take some risks, you know, go for that like silly poke check that he's going to steal the puck and be gone with it, he does great and he does amazing things. And that's kind of the reason why he doesn't necessarily need a lot of assist on his goals because just the way he functions, the way he does best is by kind of creating opportunity on his own and, you know, taking these little risks that I'm sure may coaches pull their hair out, like crazy. Right. You know, when you miss that post jacket, the blue line, all of a sudden you're like skating around in the neutral zone, trying to get back in position looking like a fool.

But, you know, and somebody's got a great shot on goal as a result. But, you know, I think that's part of it. And I think he's a really creative passer. So I think he can still do well, you know, on those situations. where he's got the puck in the zone for a while and you're passing around trying to find that good shot or whatever. I think he can make it work, but I just think he really excels in situations

where he's stealing it where somebody else is stealing it and he's, you know, collecting it near the boards or something and going in to try and score. Right, yeah. No, he's definitely a player who I love watching. And I don't know, let's transition to the Blackhawks because another guy who I, whenever he's on the ice, I just can't seem to, to,

take my eyes off of him is Artemi Pernarin who just like obviously you know he's 24 years old so he's not your typical rookie and he's in a pretty nice situation in terms of the guys he's playing with and the role he has on a really good team but it seems pretty clear that you know unless macdavit comes back and lights the world on fire he's probably you know win the rookie of the year and it just like from the eye test i mean he just he's one of those guys that never really seems to want to relinquish the puck unless it's a prime position for him to help his teammates. And I think that that's a huge thing because obviously you need to have the requisite skill to sort of pull off that stuff and to even like dare dreaming of doing some of the things he does.

But I think it's like the mentality where I feel like there's this sort of like North American thing where you want to make the smart conservative play and get the puck out of your zone and get it into the other zone regardless of whether you have possession of it. Whereas you see like a guy like Panarin who comes across from Europe. and he just, like, he just tries to, you know, maneuver his way with the puck on his stick, out of his zone, into the other zone. He's trying to set everything up for either himself or his linemates, and it's just like such a, it's such a refreshing thing to watch, honestly.

Yeah, he is so much fun. I mean, and just watching his skating even is really a treat. I mean, he was one of those kind of jewels that all of a sudden lands in your lap, and you're like, oh, my gosh, where has this guy been all my life? Like, this is amazing. He's great. But, you know, I think the mentality thing is really right on because, you know, a lot of guys wouldn't have the confidence to come in as a rookie.

Despite the fact that he's 24, yeah, but to come in as a rookie on a team like Chicago and be like, hey, I know I'm going to plan a line with, you know, these two other really good players. But this puck is mine and I'm going to skate around with it for a while because, you know, I'm going to confuse some dudes and they're going to try and get it off my stick and I'm going to pull him down below the goal line, and then I'm going to make some really stupid pass, you know, that's like sickly, disgusting and awesome.

Right. And somebody else is going to score. Plus, you know, then I think Enizumov is kind of like perfect on that line because he's like the grinding, talented guy who creates chaos in front of the net. He can be the workhorse for that one. He can try and back up the other two when they, you know, do something silly and somebody has a break going the other way or something. He's like the level-headed one out of that line, I think,

and the other two just get to, like, go woo-hoo! And float around and do their thing that is, you know, really cool and amazing. But, yeah, he's really fun. He's just a real treat to watch. I agree. Yeah, I think the mentality thing is definitely an important distinction because a lot of guys in the NHL are skilled enough to at least, like, try some of this stuff, but they just, like, probably,

I think it's a confidence thing, and it's just like a thing that he's been allowed, given that freedom probably his entire career, and it's a common sense, intuitive thing for him at this point. So it's really fun to watch. I don't know, like, the Blackhawks? Who was it that we're saying like a while back, darn it, it was a Russian player who was talking about kind of how the modern NHL has taken so much of the creativity out of the game. They say it's so structured that, you know, it's hard to, allow creative players some creative license because they're so worried about the risk associated with it. But I think that's something

Panarin hasn't had coached out of him at this point. And I think a lot of other players who are capable of doing that probably have it coached out of them so often in a North American game because it's just so so structured that they just don't leave a lot of room for that kind of

the really fun stuff. Right. And I think you particularly see that with defense I feel like because they're sort of expected to be these reliable, safe guys that don't let pucks into their own net. And then when you see a guy like Eric Carlson, for example, just try to do all this fun, creative stuff on the odd chance that he kind of messes up and it winds up looking like a glaring mistake. There's a lot of hand-wringing and people are saying that, you know, he's a defensive liability. And it's easy to see how it could be like coached out of a player because the spotlight is on you very negatively when it doesn't wind up working out, even though people sort of gloss over the fact that he just did like seven great things that helped his team a lot more than a guy who just dumps it out would do, right?

So I don't know. Right. Yeah, I agree. I think that's the same way. You know, it goes back to like kind of like these artificial construct we have for players. Like we know we think that safe defensemen are specific things, but they're really not. You know, like, safe defensemen should be guys who are really good passers. who always make a, you know, always, well, almost always,

make a good play out of their zone to get their offense going. And, you know, kind of think about it, like pinball, you know, the defensemen are like the heck do you call that thing where, you know, you like pull it back and it hits the ball and it goes out and stuff. Right, right, yeah. So that should be like the defenseman, you know, like they can just kind of spring the offense into action. And then you've got your forwards that are like your little paddles

of directing things. things and the defensemen can be that too once they get into the neutral zone or the other zone. But like, the defensemen are not just there to like clear the puck out all the time. It's so annoying. Yeah. When we talk about a stay at home defenseman, oh, bull, blah, I'm like, stay at home because he doesn't do anything. Right.

He stays at home because he's constantly in his own zone. That's why, you know? And the thing people don't really ever like pay attention to it is like it's really hard to actually defend in your own zone at the NHL level. Most times, if you're kind of stuck defending for a sustained period of time, you're probably either going to wind up giving up a goal against or you're going to take a penalty or something like that. It's really hard to be a super effective, efficient defensive zone defender.

Like where you excel as a defender is kind of limiting that exposure you have in your own zone and making things happen in the transition game and in the offensive zone to kind of shift the balance in your favor, I guess. So it's an interesting just way of thinking how people view defensemen and evaluate them. And I know that that's something we've talked about on this podcast a lot. And I saw on Twitter, you were kind of interacting with people about that recently, too. Yeah. And I think the other way it ends up, I mean, other than like, goals or penalties is that you finally dump the puck out of the zone enough that everybody else is tired too. Right. And so, you know, they go regroup and you hop over the boards. And then

your teammates are left to hurry up into a line change and then defend against yet another offensive attack. Right. You know what I mean? Like it just kind of is a cycle that goes on and on. And, you know, people want to say like, oh, these safe defensemen and they stay at home guys, you got to have them up and off the glass and all that stuff. Well, all they're really doing is hanging their teammates out to dry and letting them

finish the job. So they don't understand why we've kind of prized that aspect in them. if anything, I would be like, hey dude, try making a decent path so that I can go on office. You know what I mean? Like, because that would be way cooler, then you're constantly making me have to clean up your mess. So I'm guessing based off the past 10 minutes or so, we just talked about the defensemen, you are not a big fan of the Rob Scuderi trade. I'm not kidding that when that popped up on my Twitter the other night, I thought it was

somebody like messing around. Right. You know, like, people like, take a tweet and they screenshot it and they kind of like mined to make it look like something and then they post it. I saw this what someone was doing because I was like, you jerks. You know, like, yeah, nice try. I'm not believing that. And then it was real.

I was like, what is happening? What are you doing? I don't get it. Like, basically take everything Travis said on the podcast yesterday about that deal and make it come out of my mouth because there are times. you just make a bad deal. And then that's what that is. I don't care about a million dollars in cap space.

That's great. It's wonderful. Okay, good. Yeah. But, you know, everybody that was arguing with me and being like, oh, no, no, no, no. They're going to turn this into something else. And I was like, I will guarantee that that dude's going to play. Right.

That's a thing. She's going to, like, be buried somewhere. All right, I guess. Whatever. It's not a great deal. But do what you have to do to make the next three moves. Well, Jen, you know what's going to happen. The Blackhawks are still going to regret.

regardless of how bad Skuderi is, they have so much talent and so much structure across the lineup that they're probably still going to be a very effective team. And then we're going to start seeing these articles and comments pop up about how Rob Scuderi's leadership and like accountability is, is what's what's helping spur them, right? Like, it's inevitable. Like you can, you can take that to the bank. It's going to happen for sure, just a matter of whether it's kind of towards the end of the regular season or after they win the Stanley Cup or it's going to happen. Like, I saw some guys the other day, I think it was last night or something, being like, oh, yeah, where are all those people saying, like, you know, the defensemen, you know, these, like,

old defensemen that the Blackhawks pick up hurt them so much, you know, and, like, where were those people when they were winning the cup last year and all that stuff? And I'm like, did you look at how many minutes team had during the playoffs? Like, are you legit saying this? Like, Dunkin Keith, like, set, like, superhuman records. They played four-ish defensemen for the entire playoffs. I mean, most of the time, it was like three dudes out there, you know, taking turns of if they weren't superhuman,

there's no way that they could have ever done that. And, I mean, they've been doing that for a while, right? Like, like, I remember even back when Nick Letty was on the Blackhawks, he would sort of, like, just fall out of favor in the playoffs and play very little, and they would just, like, ride Keith, and until he basically was, like, on the, Like, you just like can probably play another single minute more than he was playing. And it's obviously, it's kind of sketchy when, uh, so you have so many eggs in one basket.

Like if Duncan Keith either slows down or gets injured again or something like that, like there's, there's the Blackhawks are screwed. And I guess you can see that for really any team. Like if they lose their top defensemen, they're probably not going to win. But it's kind of fascinating that I don't know, like the Rob Scuder is obviously not a good player. And no one's going to, no one's going to kind of make that argument. and this, well, this is like a bad decision, I don't think it's going to, you know, be the,

I'm doing it for the Blackhawks, but like it would be a nice kind of asset to have six defensemen that you could at least rely upon to play like 10 to 15 minutes without completely caving you in, right? Right, yeah. And, you know, I mean, I get their business decisions and there's a limited, you know, market for moving people. But this is, I think, more to me kind of symptomatic of a,

friend we've seen for a while between Bowman and Cuenzo that, you know, Bowman has somebody in mind, like a younger defenseman or somebody that he picks up, and he brings in, he says, hey, you know, I really think we can make this guy work. And immediately, Cuenville hates the guy. You know what I mean? Like, he's immediately in the press box or he's, you know, ultimately shipped out of town despite being a really good player and, you know, all this kind of stuff.

And it's just kind of funny. It's this, like, repeating pattern again and again between the two of them. I don't know how it's sustainable over a long term for the health of the organization, but what do I know? I don't know. Maybe they just, you know, mis-evaluate defensemen and that's how it ends up. But it seems to be that defensemen are like a real trick for them to try and get. This has been kind of crazy.

I think every, even like the smartest hockey minds have these like little blind spots that they just can't seem to shake. like you can go down like up and down the list of the best coaches and and gms and they all have like one player type generally that they just seem to have like a either a soft spot for or they just like inexplicably can't really stand and get get around to trusting and and I guess the key is limiting the exposure to it and and kind of making sure that you're not like burning too many assets in the search of that so I think it is one of the instances where it's kind of easy to make fun of and whatnot, but ultimately it's

something that won't probably wind up costing the Blackhawks that much, I don't think. Yeah, I mean, I think they'll be fine. Whatever, they have a lot of talent, and they have, you know, some good systems in place and everything. And as long as Skidari can kind of, like, slot into a role where, I mean, I doubt that Quenville's going to let him just keep dumping the puck out constantly. At some point, he's going to be like, no, no, no, no, no. You see, we actually make passes to get out of the zone.

and you're going to have to try and do that. Right. You know, I mean, that'll happen at some point, or it won't happen until this constantly get dogged and his minutes will go down. I don't know. But, yeah, like, it's not going to be like an organization breaker. It's just, you know, it's just oddly reminiscent or fitting into this pattern that we've seen over and over again for the past few years.

Right. So, okay, let's wrap up with this. I was kind of hoping for your perspective as a person who watches the block Hawks more closely than I do. Like, what's your take on them this season? Because I'm looking at the, almost of their numbers and where they sit in the standings. And I don't know, like, from what I've seen from them this year, they've, it's tough to say. Because, like, it sort of looks like they're, like, walking through the motions at times. Like, it doesn't, it seems like they're sort of, like, pacing themselves and not trying to, like, burn too much energy or, or, or whatnot as the year,

like, I'm sure they'll ramp up as the year goes along. But at the same time, like, that central division is so loaded and they really need to make a conservative concerted effort, I feel like, not to finish in that four or five slot because it could potentially mean playing the Kings in the first round. And that's something that I'm sure they'd like to avoid. So I don't know, like, where do you think they stack up with the other teams in the Central and I guess like what's their outlook moving forward for the rest of the season? Yeah, I learned a very valuable lesson last season because I was kind of one of their biggest critics constantly all season.

of, you know, really dogging out there the way they were playing because it was garbage compared to, like, the seasons before that. And, you know, anybody who tells you that they were like perfect all season is just flat out lying because they were at points just really not good. But, you know, and I spent all this time, like, kind of trying to figure out what was going wrong and what was wrong with their breakouts and what was this and what was that. And then, you know, and blowing off the people saying they're going to flip the switch in the playoffs because I was like, come on.

You can't just suddenly turn this on and like make it work. Right. And they did again, again. I mean, they've done this before where they kind of just, you know, coast through. And they're like, hey, we'll stay good enough to make the playoffs and then we'll worry about like playing some hockey. And I thought that was maybe just like some sort of weird narrative. And then I started hearing like all these all these quotes after the season. of them saying like other guys who had come in,

like Richards and teaming in and stuff. And they were like, man, these guys basically, you know, they do what they have to do to get through the regular season. And then they play real hockey, like when the playoffs come around and that's it. And they, you know, they take like the first round to really kind of crank it up and get it flowing where they want it to be and then they just go. And it's kind of wild to think they can even do that. Like how good do you have to beat it?

suddenly just be like, hey guys, we say we played some hockey this would be cool, you know? I honestly couldn't seem like that. Right. So I don't know. I'm guessing they can do it again. Hell, they've done it before.

I'd better not say that you can't do it this year because, you know, I took a lot of grief for saying that last year. Right. And, of course, it looked like a fool. But, you know, like, I honestly think they're just into this thing where they're, like, so health conscious, they're so into nutrition

and taking care of themselves. that they do what they need to, and then once the playoffs come around, they do what they must. You know, like they really throw it into gear. So I don't know. They totally could end up, you know, really deep in the playoffs again this season. They still have a ton of offensive talent. It's not like they're missing out on like a really good shooter or something. They have lots of those.

So I think they'll come around. Well, I don't know. When we were doing the preseason prediction. It's where they do it to, like, fight me. Yeah. Well, when we were doing the preseason predictions, I was looking at the landscape and I was like, I really like the Preds. I really like the Wild.

I actually also really like the Blues, but I just like, I'm going to feel so silly picking anyone other than the Blackhawks at the end of the day. And basically, I'm going to have to see them kind of prove me wrong in that regard. And then maybe I'll readjust the my expectations. But like for now, I haven't necessarily seen anything that makes me think that they won't once again be there at the end of the day. So I'm totally with you. I think any reason, any people that are concerned with them.

I mean, there's like certain worrisome trends that, you know, you want to kind of keep an eye on and see if they, you know, progress and get worse as time goes on. But ultimately there's nothing there that suggests that, you know, they're going to, they have some sort of fatal flaw. So I think they're ultimately going to be just fine. Yeah, I mean, I think the only thing that would really think them would be injuries to key players at this point. You know, guys that then all of a sudden you don't have them and so you can't just. crank it up in the playoffs, you know, like Keith or somebody. You know what I mean? Or like TAVEs or somebody that can be really kind of central to turning it on

when you get into the playoffs, if you lose one of those guys, then I think you're in deep, deep trouble. But yeah, I think at this point, like, it's kind of a, you default to them turning it on and doing it in the playoffs until they show you that they absolutely can't do that. I don't know. It's kind of a risky way to go about it. It would make me really nervous, but, you know, but yeah, like you said, that Central is bananas. It's really good. Yeah. Yeah, that's really good. I mean, like Dallas and everybody, who are these guys? They're ridiculously fun to watch and completely bananas. I don't know if it'll last in the playoffs,

but they're a hoot. Yeah, no, they're a treat. All right, Jen, let's get you out of here. But before we do, let's plug some stuff. I saw that you're going to be speaking at the, uh, the Panthers workshop in mid-February and I know you've got some big things in the works with your company so I guess I'll just like leave you the floor here to to plug a few things and let the listeners know what sort of stuff they can expect from you moving forward. Well, now that our moving is done, which is like just craziness, I can get back to working on a lot of the posts I had going about the players, um, skill set, you know, project that we did. So that'll be fun.

Those are forthcoming soon. and then I've got, obviously, the whole business thing is still going. And let's see, yeah, on February 13th, the Florida Panthers are hosting their first analytics workshop, so they asked me to be part of that. So I think I'm going to moderate one panel, and then I think I'm going to be a panel on a different one. So that should be fun and interesting, and if you're interested in going, you should go, because I think they're kicking in game tickets, like getting a suite or something.

the night of the workshop so you could like hang out and go to the game. I think they're playing Nashville that night. Nice. So it sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun. Plus it's Valentine's Day weekend in Florida. What a shame, you know. Again, I'm really giving you. I'm really sacrificing to make this work.

It's going to be really terrible for my husband and I to go down there and hang out for a weekend. Yeah, definitely. We'll make it happen. Yeah, I'm sure you will. Yeah. Dorn. All right, Jen, it was a lot of fun having you on. Thanks for taking the time.

I'm a big fan of your work, and hopefully as the year goes along, we'll be able to catch up again and maybe discuss some more system stuff. Sounds good to me. Thank you for having me on. It was fun. Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, we'll talk soon. Okay. The HockeyPedocast, online at HockeyPedocast.com. Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter. at Dim Filippovich and at Travis Yost.