The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 381: The Thrill of Kirill

Episode Date: January 20, 2021

Michael Russo joins the show to help deep dive Kirill Kaprizov's immediate impact, why the wait appears to have been worth it, and how he's helping the Minnesota Wild change the public perception of their franchise. Topics include: Why Kirill Kaprizov has captured everyone's attention Why the Wild desperately needed a talent like him What he does well, why he can succeed in the NHL What we can learn from his first couple games Wild trying to change public perception of them Goals for this season and questions to answer Kevin Fiala following up on his breakout Future contracts for Kaprizov and Fiala Lineup construction and team building theory Playing styles and helping stars shine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Amitri Philopovich. And joining me is my buddy, Michael Russo. Michael, what's going on, man? it's good to have you on for the first time yeah yeah very excited to be on it's funny we've been talking about this it feels like for two three months so it's nice to finally find some time here it is funny how like once the hockey season starts that's actually when it gets things almost like sort of chill out for me so well glad we have time to do it you're in high demand i'm sure now that you're covering the team that features kiro caprice off and and if you're questioning the immediate

impact he's had in his first three games in the league uh we're doing a full episode here on Minnesota Wild in the first week of the season. So you know it's the real deal. You're watching the NBC broadcast over the weekend, and they're just devoting full intermission segments to talking about the Wild. It's a pretty crazy time. It's kind of like an upside-down world. Yeah, no, it is.

Although that I don't know a lot of times is good for the Wild. I remember in Mike Yo's first year, we're out in California. It's like mid-December in the Wilder number one in the league, and it's like everybody, at the same time, the GM's meetings were going on out in like Santa Bar. or something like that. And so after the GM's meetings, all these like Pierre LeBron and Chris Johnston and all these national reporters swooped into San Jose to do huge features on the wild. And next thing you know, they win like their next two or three games. They stay number one in the

league. And next thing you know, they win like 15 games all year. And then so yesterday I'm getting all these text messages that Elliott Friedman was just going on and on about the wild during the Leaf's first intermission. And so I text them right away. I'm like, you just kiss the death now. So we'll see if the while could keep this up. I think it'll be tough. Was that the 2012 season when they like had through the roof PDO but we're the worst possession team of all time and just running. We're just like leading the way in goal tending and then quickly fell off.

Yeah, that's exactly. Yep. That was 1112. I believe it was because that would have been Mike Eos first year if I remember correctly. Yeah. That was a big year for the initial wave of analytics and hockey. They were a cautionary tale. I've had people ask me why I'm so fired up about Caprizov in the last.

while and I've been like tweeting out videos of his I know the first two games and I think you know the answer is pretty simple like there's more context to it and we'll get into that but I think if you just watch him play and and you've seen this firsthand it kind of speaks for itself and there's a certain infectious nature to it to his energy kind of the way he plays where when he has the puck obviously we know the scale and we saw especially in the khl what he's capable of I think we're going to see that shine through more as he gets more comfortable than hl but I think what's impressed me is is play off with a puck sometimes where, especially if a defender has it kind of loosely up against the boards or is maybe already engaged with another Minnesota wild player, he's just

attacking them and he's going kind of headfirst into those puck battles and he seems kind of fearless in a way. And I think just sort of the way he moves around the ice, I find it kind of mesmerizing. And so I just haven't been able to get enough. And I think it's when he has the puck, it's almost, it's kind of electric. I think I can't wait until the day that fans are. are allowed back in the rinks. I think he's going to be one of those guys that really benefits from that energy because he's one of those players where, especially on the power player or three on three, when he gets the puck and he has a full head of steam, there's going to be like these crowd reactions that kind of add to the theatrical experience of it all.

It's a great point. And that's actually what I feel bad most about him. I mean, you know, he's waited so long to come over here. He's been talking about it for years. He knew all along he was coming over here after his KHL contract ended in and he finally comes over and, and, you know, And we're all in a global pandemic where he can't even get the experience of going to all 31 arenas and playing in front of incredible hockey fans and really seeing what the NHL is all about and the United States and Canada is all about. And I think you make a great point, Dimitri, I think when all of a sudden fans are there sort of, you know, rooting him on, motivating, he's seeing how he's delighting them.

I think it's just going to make for a much, much better hockey player. And, you know, he's going to learn. He's going to get much, much better. but what you pointed out that I completely agree with is he's got defensive instincts that will continue to get better. And we've seen some mistakes here in the last couple games, no doubt. But I think he's going to be in future years in like sulky conversations. He's just got a great stick. He's got a hunt for that puck.

You know, I think he uses guys like Pavel Datsuke as inspiration. He doesn't just want to be the most skilled player in the NHL. I think he wants to be a completely, a completely. two-way type of forward. And the work ethic, we see it every day in practice. You know, he's first on, last off. He's got a lot of Zach Parisi in him, Demetri. I'm not really sure how to kind of frame this point most eloquently.

I'll just say, like, you know, it felt like for a while there, he almost held the organization hostage a little bit, or maybe you as a beat writer, because you'd watch these Minnesota Wild Games, and they were just so desperate for a star that's his dad. dynamic as he is and we're watching him put up these ridiculous numbers in the khl that compare very favorably to players like panarin and kuznetsov and terran and terrancinov and terran and you're just waiting but at the same time the clock does start kind of ticking where you're getting now into your mid-20s all of a sudden and you're wondering is this ever going to happen uh will it happen with this franchise are we going to be kind of uh screwed over here because he's

going to decide he either doesn't want to come over or he's going to come over and play for someone else. Like you're sort of wondering about that dynamic and kind of the timeline and the expectations. And I'm really sort of just curious about how all of that unfolded from the perspective of, you know, you're trying to manage your day-to-day running an NHL team and covering this, but you kind of have this backdrop of this star that you can't really ignore because it kind of factors into everything else. Well, and we saw it. I mean, last December, when it was really late November, when Bill Garron flew to Moscow to first meet with him. And at the time, his agent Dan Milcian, I talked to Bill Guerin the second he landed back in Minnesota.

We were down in South Florida, actually, the team. And I asked him point blank on that phone call, are you going to have to trade a winger to make room for Carrillo in the lineup? And he basically on that call said yes. And so you knew all year long that a guy like Zooker was probably going to be out of here. And eventually he was in February. But it has been that way. The wild have been preparing. It's been three GMs trying to get them.

I kind of feel for the kid too. You know, he was, he was sort of held hostage over in Russia from everything I understand from, from talking to people that know him really well, both his agents, things like that. You know, he made promises during the world championships three or four years ago where they put him on the team and he didn't even play a shift. And next thing you know, he resigns in the KHL. And I think that he, the promise from the mutual promise from both his team over in Russia, people higher up than that and Caprisoff was that when this contract ends, I am definitely going to the NHL. And both sides lived up to that promise, at least here.

So the wild am awaiting a long time for him to build around. But to your other point, what's a little concerning is that they only own his rights for three years. Because he's so late, because he was drafted in 2015. team because he's 23, he can become an unrestricted free agent in, you know, in 2023. So, you know, that's the one thing that's going to be interesting is that, you know, I don't know him. He seems like an incredible kid. He seems like he absolutely loves it here in Minnesota. You know, I think that it's going to be probably incumbent on Billy Garron here in the next

three years to show Caprice off that this team has the ability to win, that there's not a, you know, that the grass isn't greener elsewhere, like Tampa Bay or somebody else. And that might be one showing him the money this off season, you know, maybe already committing a long, long, long term deal because you can't really sign him to a bridge deal in my mind this summer because he's got to, he can become UFA in three years. But the other thing is, you know, showing him that this team has the ability to go either get a number one center or develop a number one center. I mean, right now, Carrillo Caprisoff's playing with Victor Rask. You know, I mean, a guy that couldn't even play in the bubble, a guy that was been in the two years since he was acquired a total disappointment with the wild. You know, it is an indictment with the Minnesota. I'm pretty alarming that he's the number one center on this team, on the power play, and things like that.

And while Carrille might not think that right now, I mean, eventually you're going to have to show him some sort of excitement of somebody that's going to be able to get him the puck and scoring positions. You're hitting all my talking points there. You just jumped ahead and teased everyone. Yeah, no, that was great. We're going to get into all that much more closely. I just, you know, on this point of sort of the impact he's had right out of the gate and people talking about it, I think I was like thinking back to it. And really, it's been since the first couple years of Marion Gabrick, I think, where the wild have had anything remotely resembling this kind of talent. And I look back and it was kind of jaw dropping a little bit to see that Gabrick's 83 points in 0708 are the only time this franchise has ever had an 80 point score.

And, you know, so as a result, they deservedly get labeled as kind of this most boring, uneventful franchise in the league for years. And I think a perception like that is really hard to shake, especially on a national level where once it sticks, people are very picky with, you know, who they're going to watch or who they're going to talk about, especially on a Saturday night when you've got 10 games going on at once, people are going to be picky about, you know, devoting their attention and their energy to watching who they watch. oftentimes that's not going to be the Minnesota Wild.

And I think that's been the most eye-opening experience of this, where, especially in the first two games of the late comebacks and the dramatic overtime wins, all of a sudden you've got people watching Minnesota Wild Games talking about it. The entire timeline is filled up with it. You've got intermission segments the next day just devoted to it. And I think that perception of the franchise

and the lens it's being viewed through kind of ties into this organizational philosophical shift that they've tried to shift towards the past, I'd say a year and a half, maybe two in terms of how they've devoted their draft resources to high upside skill players and they're really trying to embrace this new modern NHL. But this is sort of the firsthand glimpse. So I guess maybe, you know, we don't want to give Kevin Fiala the short in the stick because I feel like he started that towards the end of last year where he almost became appointment viewing himself. But seeing this now kind of unfold the way it has in the first week of the season has been the biggest storyline to me

just because, I mean, my God, for a rookie to make a team this watchable is really quite the accomplishment. No, you make great points there. I mean, and it's not just perception. I mean, it is real. The NHL and NBC, this is the state of hockey, but they didn't give the winner classic to this franchise until year 20. Why? Because they weren't marketable. You know, you've got to have people that national folks are going to turn on NBC

and want to watch the Minnesota Wilde play a New Year's Day game. And we're starting to see that now, some excitement here with Caprice have coming, with hopefully Marco Rossi eventually, with Kevin Fiala. It's been a long, long time. I mean, Gabbrick left here in 2009, and the wild haven't had a true star. Obviously, Eric Stahl had a great year a couple years ago with 42 goals, but that was still at the tail end of his career, Parisian Souter. Great players turned his franchise into a contender every year with six great post seasons. But I don't think anybody would say that they're absolute superstars. You know, that is the hope now is that Bill Garron, who has played with tons of stars in his career,

is trying to add to that type of mix right now. And it is exciting. I mean, you know, this is my 26th NHL season covering, and I've basically covered two stars. And I don't know if I'd call Marion Gavrick a true star. But, I mean, I covered Pavel Burry in Florida. I've never covered anything like that ever since. And Burry was, you know, electrifying. And in a clutch-and-grab error, he scored 58.

and 59 goals on back-to-back years in the earlier, you know, 2000s. So that, you know, he sort of was an aberration, but you think that you're going to at least cover that, you know, every now and then, get a star on your team. And Minnesota Wild fans have lacked that. And so the hope now from Wild fans is that Caprice can develop into that. Now, it's going to still take some time. You know, luckily they're getting him at 23, not 18. But the hope is that he gives them, you know, he gives these fans a reason to watch every single night and turns them into somebody that Elliot Freeman and Pierre LeBron and Bob McKenzie and Duren Greger could talk about on a nightly basis and make this team sexy.

I mean, even, you know, in your case, obviously covering the team on a full-time basis, but I'm sure for the fans as well, that kind of sort of malaise or cynicism has to seep in after a while. I think especially after the damage that was done there for a couple years, just to the image of the franchise during the Paul Fenton regime, where you'd have people around the league just texting me like jokes about whether it was the Victor Rask trade and sort of what happened behind the scenes with that or whether it was his comments comparing Zuccarello to a lizard, or you had the great quote where the prospects at the 2019 draft coming to the draft table and he's just describing their size in this weird way.

And so that kind of became the main time. talking point for the wild and whenever that happens for a franchise and it becomes a bit of a side show that's a major issue so for the fact that you know we're kind of focusing on the on ice stuff and focusing on the positives of a player like a presov I think is huge and you can't kind of overstate the value of that and it really ties into I guess that overall general point of you know what Bill Guerin's been trying to do here ever since he came in in terms of changing the image of the franchise changing the perception of them and also you know hopefully as a result also changing the on ice product and the success of it.

Yeah, exactly. And I think that's the thing here is he's trying to add to actually what the Fenton regime did. I mean, the one thing I'll give Paul credit for is one. Actually, two things I'll give him credit for is one. He acquired Fiala when a lot of people were sort of rolling her eyes that it was another, you know, kind of Paul Fenton. I really, really liked the guy from Nashville type of trade. And Paul, the thing that we all forgot is that Paul Fenton knew Kevin Fial a lot more intimately than any of us did. And so he believed that he could be a game breaker, and we'll see if he could still become that.

He's gotten off to, you know, a lot of volume, hasn't gotten a point yet. But, you know, the one thing that Paul really did and his son, who was one of those years, the co-director of scouting, he wasn't the first year. So it was two drafts of Paul Fenton, one for PJ Fenton. But the reality is that they didn't trade draft picks. And so they had more bullets in the chamber. and they went out and they loaded up with prospects, and now the hope is that you can hit on two or three or four of them. And it looks like the Wild have really done a much better job there.

So Bill is trying to continue to add to that. And the one thing I've got Bill on a podcast later today, and the one thing that I want to figure out is we're in a flat cap era. He's got to re-sign Fiala and Caprice off this summer. And then you, you know, but they've got to eventually get a number one center. So are you turning Marco Rossi into that, Alex Holvinoff, who? Or do you still have the dollars and cents in a flat cap era to actually go out and acquire one? That's the one thing that I think they're trying to determine inside the organization is when do you make that move.

But to your other point, you're right. The last year and a half, the Wilde publicly took a big time hit with their acquisition of Paul Fenton, when I think a lot of people thought that he had this type of ego that might be difficult to sort of in here, the internal morale inside the team was destroyed for a year and a half, and it got to the point where finally Craig Leopold had to make a decision in July as embarrassing as it was. And, you know, but from a hockey standpoint, it is sort of interesting that, you know, a year and a half later, it is looking like, all right, now we see some of the things that Paul Fent was trying to do. And if he could have just been a better person off the ice to his staff,

you know, maybe it all would have worked out. And, and that's a lot. why he lost his job. It was, you know, Craig Leopold said it at the time. It was, it was everything else to do with being a GM, the managing of a department, the leadership that Craig Leopold finally just had to admit a mistake and make that type of move. Yep, that's well said. Well, so, okay, one, I guess one kind of bigger point on Caprizo before we move on and talk about some other stuff. I, you know, so we talk about, I didn't honestly have much to go off of other than, you know, you watch tape of them. You see generally the highlights and it's going to make the player look as best as possible because it's going to kind of

highlight their main attributes. And so you see with Caprizov, you see, you know, the quick release, you see sort of the creativity and you go, okay, you know, this player is very skilled. But, you know, the KHL wallet is the second best pro league in the world for men's hockey. It is also a kind of an entirely different animal in terms of how much space there is on the ice, generally the flow of the game. And so it's dangerous to sometimes assume that a player is just going to be able to come over and succeed. Now, you know, with his production, it was so similar to a Panarin or a Kuznetsov that you felt more comfortable, but you kind of, you need to see it to believe it, right? And so just watching him from these first three games, you don't want to necessarily make any wide sweeping conclusions because it is just three games. But

what really has stuck out to me, and you hit the nail in the head there with the sort of Selky thing, and I think that would surprise some people is the stuff he does off of the puck and also kind of like the little things with the puck are things that are going to really end up to anything. HL coaches, whether it's Dean Evanson or someone else down the road. And that's going to guarantee more opportunities. And I think that's something that is enormous for a player like him, because oftentimes when we see a skill player come over, we kind of bemoan the fact that they get buried. Oh, they're only playing 12, 13, 14, 15 minutes a night.

They're not being kind of fully unleashed. And with Caprizov, we've already seen partly it's out of necessity because they've been behind and they've been trying to score. And also, you know, this isn't exactly the most talent-filled roster. but he's playing heavy minutes right out of the gate, and it's because he's earned it, and because the coaching staff clearly feels very comfortable putting him in all these different situations

where they don't feel the need to kind of shelter him. And I think that is the biggest takeaway from these first three games beyond everything else. Yeah, well, opening night, this is pretty cool. Opening night, just looking at it up here, he played 21 minutes, 52 seconds to lead all wild forwards. What rookie steps into a lineup like that that's not a number one overall pick? I mean, that's crazy to me.

And it shows you that the trust that Dean Eveson already has in him. Now, the last two games, there have been some definitely some warts that they're going to have to work on. And he's going to be a great defensive player. But like last night, it's a great example where, you know, he needed to probably recognize on the one back check on the one goal that Nico Sturm went to the wrong area and that the center drive by, I think it was. Carter Rowney pushed Jared Spurgeon out of position. So Capricev's got to pick that up. And the game in L.A., there was also a back check where if he just stayed with his man, I think he was asked him to see you, you know, he would have been there.

So those are the type of things he's going to learn. He's a rookie. The other thing that he's going to have to learn, Dimitri, is that, you know, you don't always have to defer to Kevin Fiala. I know, you know, this is my concern about Fiala, by the way, not getting a goal yet, is that I think that the wild players know how important Kevin is to this team and how frustrated he has a tendency to get, that now they're trying to force plays to him just to get him off the Schneide here. I know we're only three games in.

And I think we saw that last night with Caprisoff, trying to just completely set up Fiala, where they were almost from a penalty kill standpoint. The Ducks were doing the old Mikhail Granlin trick where, hey, if we don't think he's going to shoot, we're just going to let him have the shooting lane and just cover everything else. So that's one thing he's going to have to do. But, you know, the kid is so smart. He works so hard. And the one thing we haven't talked about yet, Demetri, I don't know if you've been on any of his Zooms yet, but he is like the most affable of kids.

Like he's just got this infectious personality. He's always smiling and laughing. And you can just tell that he is going to transition wonderfully to the National Hockey League and his teammates. You know, he's got for a kid with his type of skill and talent, he seems to have very little ego. And again, I know this, I'm picking this up from Zooms, but I've talked to a lot of people about him. He's played with a bunch of Minnesotans over in the KHL. I've obviously talked to, you know, other people that know him really, really well. And you could just see it.

Here's a great story, you know. Like he first moves to Minnesota and some people were trying to set him up to get a car. And he thought the car that he might have got set up with was too flashy to go drive around. He didn't want his teammates to get the wrong impression of him when he showed up at practice in this flashy car. So, you know, stuff like that, like a 23-year-old. normally wouldn't think of I just think it's awesome and that's why it's like I can't wait to get to actually meet him and I can't wait till you know he feels comfortable like his English I think is very good it's certainly better than my

Russian and and I can't wait till he feels comfortable that he could go on camera and feel like he could do without a translator because I think that just getting to know him and learning some of the funny things that he's that he says I think is gonna be you know really cool and you know one player that I know one player that I covered again that I mentioned is Pavel Burray. And I know that he's got a lot of respect for him. He's gotten a no-Berre over in Russia as well. And I'd love to just almost swap stories like that with him.

And, you know, the other thing is about him is that I just think it's so cool how many of the great Russian players in the National Hockey League like him and respect him. You know, he works out with guys like Kutrov and, you know, Panarin, Surgich. He obviously knows Kovych and Datsuk and those type of things. You can tell that there's a relationship there just from following Caprice off all these years of social media. And so I just think that's the type of thing. So once we get back to a real life where we could actually go into the locker room and get to know this kid and write proper stories and give the fans here in Minnesota even more of a sense of what this kid is like, I think that fans here are going to really fall for him.

And now that's another reason why it's going to be up to Billy Garron to figure out on a second contract what you could have comfortably afford to sign this guy long term too. Well, his play with the puck, so you can tell it's very sophisticated in terms of just like the little things he does to open up and kind of receive passes in transition or whether it's, you know, when he has the puck behind the net, his head's always up and he's kind of trying to guide the puck to where he wants his teammate to be as opposed to where he's currently standing. And he's kind of trying to like spoon feed them a goal basically.

And so the thing that I've been curious watching these first couple of games is I have notice the puck has been bouncing on him quite a bit and there haven't been a lot of clean receptions especially when he's been firing at the teammates and i don't think that's a reflection of like him lacking touch because he clearly doesn't have any issues with that he's a highly skilled player i wonder how much of it is a combination of sort of nerves and the fact that these are the first couple games for him in this league how much of it is just poor california i said the start of the season i was just going to say that to me sure yeah there's clearly something going on because there's been some opportunities where he's clearly making the right read.

And, you know, I think on most occasions it would lead to a much higher or a cleaner look. And for whatever reason, it's kind of bounced on the teammate he passes to. And a part of it might just be, you know, as he gets to play with better teammates more frequently as well, that's going to help. And kind of had him having a higher skill to match his own. But yeah, I think that's really stuck out to me that. And it probably is just the ice surface as simple as that. But we'll see how that sort of works. out over the next games and weeks and months to come because if that irons itself out,

that's going to be huge for him in terms of creating. I agree. I can't wait to actually see him on better ice, you know, potentially here in Minnesota. He might not get to see a lot of it this year because we're going out west a ton, but, but you're completely right. I mean, you know, I remember you could almost count the minutes before we'd go to a game in Anaheim and wait for Marion Gabbitt to pull his groin. I mean, it just always happens, right?

It's just not the ice in L.A. looked on TV to be terrible. And the ICE in Anaheim last night, you know, I think that's the one thing that, you know, he will learn as he comes is that there's certain times, certain places where you can't try to make that perfect pass because it just doesn't work. And last night, I think we saw it because we've learned so far that Karel Kaprisov is a fabulous passer. It's probably the most underrated part of his game. And yet last night, three different times, he tried to, you know, hit Fiala on the far side for one-timer. and all three times, Viala was not able to corral that puck in a perfect shooting position. And I think that, as you say, could have been the ice.

It could have been nerves. It could have been something. But that's where, you know, I think Caprius off will learn, you know what, I'm just better off. Just parisi station in front of the net. Just shoot it and let Parisi either try to tip it, beat the goalie clean. You know, whether it's Caprice up beating the goalie clean or Parisi scoring on a rebound, which he's so good at doing. And, you know, but I think the center.

issue is another is another thing. Like I think Billy's got to figure out here. Like there was obviously a plan that, you know, maybe this offseason go out and either acquire that center or just continue to be patient and develop some of their internal people. But you also want to make sure that Fial and Capricef don't get frustrated as well. And so that's the type of thing that I think that Billy's going to have to decide here is organizationally, do they wait or do they at least go, you know, do they try to make a home run type of acquisition now or do they just at least go out and get some help because I don't think it's sustainable for the wild to have these type of centers up the middle. We see it's almost ruined their power play, you know, because they're trying to,

you know, first they had Peresia at center, then they're throwing Rask out there. Last night on the second unit, they went with three defensemen. I mean, you know, when, like everybody makes fun of the wild for not using a forward, you know, four forward look and then all of a sudden the wild on, they finally do it in their second unit's three defensemen. Like it just, it's the type of thing that I think, you know, these players are human beings too, and I guarantee it frustrates them in the locker room. And so the hope is that Capri Saf's not feeling that I get it. I mean, the weird thing is I thought in game one, you know, they didn't score a Power Play goal obviously because they're still low for this season. But you saw that, you just like there was so much movement. The puck was flying around. The players were kind of

interchanging positions. And that's what I always want to see from Power Playes. I feel like in NHL teams are way too stagnant. It's like, okay, the five guys are on the ice. Everyone needs to man their position and just stay where they are. the puck comes to them, then you do something with it. And instead, you got, like, kind of guys weaving in and out, and they didn't score. And I guess, you know, there is something to be said. I think power plays are wildly overrated in general. But I think on the power play, I'll say, I can see, like, being able to establish

possession as quickly as possible and not waste time having to go back and retrieve it is helpful. But at the same time, if you're allowing that to completely dictate your decisions and throw your combinations in the blender, it's like, maybe you should be worried more about what happens after the draw as opposed to just specifically this one little event that's basically a 50-50 point coin flip regardless of who's out there. 100%. And it's not like you're fixing it when you throw a Victor Rask out there. So I totally think the coach has overreacted here. And the reality is that even when Preezy lost a draw in the night and they had to go chase the puck 200 feet, Fiala, you know, Fiala and Capriza

got that puck in the zone, you know, right after. So they fixed the issue. You know, all it did was waste 15, 20 seconds. Now, yeah, it gets frustrating. You're constantly having an essentially, you know, wait for the puck at the other goal line. But to take a power play that looked that good and immediately change it the next night by taking caprice off of all people off of the number one unit made no sense. And then to respond to that now last night and have a first unit that head four forwards. That's great. But one not being dumb as the defenseman, I thought was bizarre.

but then to have a second unit where, like, again, I don't know if it was a mistake or not, because even when I asked Dean after the game about this, he almost seemed confused by the personnel. But there's, I went back to look to make sure I wasn't envisioning it. And the Wild's number two unit, both the first period of power plays had Brodine, Souter, and Dumbah out there. So that makes no sense. So I agree with you. Just go back to what was working in the opening night.

I mean, the power play was dynamic. They had 11 shots on goal. They had, I think, 19 attempts. Capricev and Fiala were just absolutely buzzing. The penalty kill for the Kings looked completely confused. And the only thing we didn't see was the results. But it was going to come. And I just think they overreacted to a very small problem.

But I think that's a very small problem almost, you know, shows that the coaches know, that this center issue is one that, you know, they would never say publicly, but it's a big time concern. And we're seeing it every game is that Dean Everson's almost got to. coach every shift to decide who goes on the ice with who. And again, as I said, when Victor Rask is your number one center, you know, you champions aren't born. They're made. And the secret to make your business reign supreme, Shopify, the all in one commerce platform to start, run, and grow your business. Forget the offseason work. Shopify makes it simple to sell to anyone from anywhere.

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It's coming off back surgery and try to force feed him in the middle. He's there all camp. And immediately after one game, they changed that up. And next thing you know, it's Victor Rask in the middle. It just makes very little sense to me. And I think it's one of those problems that's going to be a constant. you know, constant probably topic all year long. Let's take a quick break here to hear from my sponsor,

and then we're going to finish up the show with some of the kind of big picture questions that I have for the while that I'm hoping you'll be able to help me answer. Feels like it's been a long time coming, but the NHL is finally starting to get into sports betting. It's only going to come a bigger part of the game as tracking data becomes publicly available

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code hockey. This offer won't last long, so go to actionnetwork.com to sign up for a pro subscription and use the promo code hockey to receive 50% off and start betting smarter today. That's promo code hockey at action network.com. All right, so you kind of were tiptoeing around this or even you mentioned it at one point, but I think this is the biggest thing for me with this wild season. I think there's, you know, there's clearly an opening here to make the playoffs this season because if you look at that division, you've got Colorado and Vegas, you've got St. Louis, And then I think the fourth spot is wide open. And I really, like, I'm down in Arizona, so I really think it's there for the wilds taking if they want it.

And at the same time, though, I think from a big picture perspective, this season for Minnesota should be all about trying to figure out exactly what you have in these two dynamic forwards in Fiala and Kaprizov. And the reason why that is is because Caprizov is an RFA this summer. He'll be 24 years old. now he's a 10.2c RFA, so there's no offer sheet risk, although I'd argue that there's no offer sheet risk for any RFA in the current NHL landscape. But, you know, that's a bit of a relief. And with Fiala, he'll be 25 in an RFA. And so you kind of have to figure out, okay, are these just nice players that are, you know, good to have their kind of luxury items, but aren't necessarily complete building blocks that you can center your entire franchise around,

especially as wingers? Or are we just going to be just good to have? going fully all in long term on these players. And especially with Caprisov, it's tough because you're talking about likely a 56 game sample and then it may be a handful of playoff games if he stays healthy. And that's really tough to make a full long-term big money investment on. But at the same time, I'd argue, and you also seem to agree with this based on your comments earlier,

that I think going a two-year bridge route, kind of like what Chicago did with Panarin would be a disaster. Because all of a sudden the clock starts, you're walking them right up to UFA and you're putting yourself in this compromising position. We're pretty much right out of the gate next year. It's going to be like, all right, is he going to be traded similar to what we're seeing with purely to ball because a two-year deal is really not a two-year deal in the sense that you're on the clock as the franchise immediately to avoid him being an impending free agent.

So I'm really curious to see how they navigate that and whether they can come to terms on a big deal. I think the money perspective, I think they've got like a. 13 million or so clearing up in Dubnick, Bukstad, Johansson, and Bonino's contracts this summer. Now, the issue with that is those are, what, three, they're basically their top three centers that we just said there. So it's like, okay, yeah, you're getting 13 million off the books, but how are you going to replace that money? You're going to have to spend it on someone. So you can't necessarily fully chalk that up on just these two wingers. But it's going to be really interesting to see what Garron and the wild do here, because it's going to be a question that not only affects next season, but I

think just the viability of this franchise for the next five to ten years. Yeah, and that's why I think at some point Dumba is going to have to be traded. I just don't think he's going to be the guy that's going to get you a top center. But I think you're going to have to figure out a way to dump that $6 million and replace it in internally or go out and get some stopgap defensemen. But they're going to need some cap space. There's no doubt. And that's why I keep on telling the wild fans is that you can't just go out and trade for Dubois right now.

You can't just go out and trade Bark of right now until you figure out exactly. what Fial and Caprisoff are going to cost. And the only thing it concerns me about Capricef eventually playing somewhere else is that he's got so many friends in this league that are Russian players that, you know, you never know if there's going to be some sort of alignment like we all thought was going to happen with Panarin and Bobrovsky on long-term deals, potentially with Florida, which obviously it wound up not happening. So I think that's the type only thing I work.

And so to get to, you, you know, worry about. And so to get to your point, that's why I think that no matter what happens this summer, you've got to just trust your belief as an organization that you think Caprice-off is going to be this and go out and try to sign them to that long-term deal, five years or more, you know, even up to eight. And just hope that your projection turns out to be accurate. He's not 18. He's 23. We've seen him overseas. You've gotten to know him, you've gotten to see him in the gym. You've gotten to see his work ethic. You've gotten to know him as, as, as he's not 18. He's seen him in the gym. as a human being. And when I say, gotten a no, I'm saying, buy this summer when you've got to make that

decision. And even though he can't be off-fersheeded by anybody or anything like that, I just think you got to go out and show him to respect this off-season. Because if you only sign him to two years, we're just for the next two years going to create an anxiety in this marketplace that he's going eventually leave. And you just give him more time to make that decision. Like, you know what? Maybe I'd rather play here. And so I think that's the reason why I, if I'm the GM, I, I just don't know that you can go out and acquire that top center right now until you figure out exactly what Fial and Caprice are going to cost. So it's just going to be an interesting game of prognostication here by Billy Guerin. And, you know, I'll ask him a lot about this on today's podcast.

I don't know how much he's going to divulge. But, you know, the other thing here, and, you know, to get is that the wild, we're hoping to give Marco Rossi a real good look to start the season and then probably send him back to Zurich. Now I'd be shocked if we're going to see him this year because the wild world. always planning on, you know, potentially, I think, sending them back anyway because they didn't want to burn the contract. And now he's got obviously a significant health concern. He's not able to do anything for a while now. He's got to be real careful with what's going on with him. And so I don't think that we're going to get that sneak peek here. And I think the wild would have loved to have just seen, all right, you know what, throw him in the middle of Caprisoff

or Fiala or Capriza and Fiala and just see what they've got potentially down the line here. And that would also give them an indication of how pressing it would be to have to go out right now and go get that top, top center? Or do you just continue to be patient and wait for the Rossis to develop? The concern with being patient is that you're just going to continue to frustrate Fiala and Capriza. So by not having that upper echelon center between the two. Well, the Fiala situation is even a bit more trickier precarious for me because I've been a big fan of his ever since he entered the league. the talent is clearly tantalizing and I had a running joke where he was atop the list of breakout candidates for me for pretty much every single year.

And we finally saw it last year in the final 18 games where he ends the season with 14 goals, 26 points. He's shooting the puck like a madman. And now he gets out of the gate here with obviously heightened expectations after the run. He just finished at the end of last year. And, you know, he's pointless in three games. I will say I'm not worried because I think part of what was the big. difference for him in that offensive explosion was just he was so much smarter about finding pockets

in the offensive zone and being aggressive and kind of carrying himself like he's the guy and just shooting the puck every time he could and we've seen so far where he's got 18 shots on goal, 29 attempts in three games. Only Austin Matthews has more in the league in both categories. And so I think eventually the goals are going to come there for him and he's going to carry that over. Maybe he won't keep shooting 18% like he did down the stretch and score a goal again, basically. But I do think he's much more legit as a real star than not. And so it's tough, though, if he has a bad shooting percentage season and it doesn't come together for him, that could really hurt his case for getting mega dollars in that extension. But I think if the underlying numbers remain where they are

for him and he looks the part, I wouldn't have too many concerns about investing in him as not just a player but a legitimate building block. Yeah, it will be interesting for the wild to figure out exactly what his arbitration case is versus signing him long term. You know, the good news is that, you know, he now is represented by Craig Oster and Newport and Newport and the Wild have a really good. And I think Billy Garron, from what I can tell, just by some of the things they've already done, have a really good relationship with Newport as well.

So, you know, there are a real reasonable crew there, and I think that they'll figure out, and it'll be up to Fiala, too, on how much, like, am I? willing to stay here long term or do I want to go somewhere if I were him and seeing that he could become the face of this franchise and the electrifying star and be a dynamic duo with caprice up I think he's going to be willing to commit here and I think it'll be up to bill the one thing about Billy garren is he really is openly he's open in communication with his players you know he'll sit down with the Spurgeons with Felino and explain a long-term plan here and I think that's what he's going to do with Fiala is like look you know I want to center this team around you

But, you know, we need to have a give and take here in negotiations. You can't just, you know, on a long-term deal, try to get every single piece of dollar and cents from me forever here on a long-term contract if you want to win here. We're in a flat-cap era. Let's try to make, you know, some sort of deal on a, you know, a five-to-seven-year-type deal potentially. And it'll, again, take a lot of projection from the wild to try to figure out exactly what he's going to become and a lot of trust in him.

You know, there are certain players that you have to be careful at times, making them too comfortable by giving them a long-term deal. And that's the other thing that I think, the while they're going to have to figure out here, you know, with Fiala is psychologically whether he's one of those players. Is he somebody that almost needs the carrot every year of being in a contract year, or is he somebody that, you know, will continue to be motivated if you give him the job security of a long-term deal?

Well, I guess the big question, and it kind of ties this entire conversation together and brings them to the two guys we spend the entire show talking about together is can you play Fiala and Caprizov together because I think we've seen it on the odd occasion here or there for an offensive draw or late in the game when they've been hunting for a goal

to tie it up. You'd think it would make sense because stylistically they can kind of keep up with each other both from a pace perspective but also a talent perspective and there is something to the idea where if you're, it's all fine and dandy. to say, okay, we're going to have a star on each line and they're going to carry their teammates. But especially for younger players who still haven't been paid, there's a, there is a kind of

moral perspective to consider where it's like, we saw it in the start of that Anaheim game where Caprizo goes behind the net, he makes a nice little pass out to Perise, who swings it over to Rask and he just completely flubs a wide open net, whether or not Henrique got a got a reflection on it or not, you have to convert that. And I think if that keeps happening and it keeps adding up, that's not a good position to be in with a young star. And so you'd think, okay, well, let's put these guys together and let them play off of each other. But they do seem to, especially at this point, maybe it'll change when Zuccarello comes back, but they seem to prefer kind of balancing this top six. And it kind of gets only, the issue gets only heightened by the fact that, you know,

the centers, you've got Buestad, who can't really keep up. You've got Rask, who I just don't think is very good. You've got Johansson, who stylistically is a great fit between them. But is in a center and is uncomfortable playing there for whatever reason. You've got Benino and Joel Erick who are awesome players, but I think they're more suited for kind of middle six defensive roles. I'm curious to see if they ever give Joel Erick a longer shot there in a more prime time role. They haven't yet for whatever reason. But you've got to figure something out there because beyond just saying, okay, Marco Ross, he's going to step in here and he's going to make an entire difference for us. And I do think he has that capability. I thought he should have been a top five pick. He was a steal at number nine.

and he's immensely talented. That's a lot of sort of pressure to be putting on a young player like that to step in and say that they're going to fix all of your issues down the middle. And so figuring out how that top six is going to shake out, and whether these two guys as wingers can play together or whether they're better suited separately is going to be something they really need to iron out here because it could make the difference from, you know, for maximizing both of their capabilities, I think.

Absolutely. I mean, and to get to your first about Caprice, up setting up preasy for rest. I mean, that was an unbelievable play. I mean, that was one on three in the corner. And he just went after Shattonkirk, like a just a bull and just separated him from the parka. And it was just a tremendous play. And when he did that, I'm like, oh, this guy might get five points tonight.

And unfortunately, just missing that goal, you know, probably changed the collection of the game from Rast standpoint. I'm at that point where I absolutely think that they should at least try Erickson-Eck up top. I know that Dean doesn't want to do it because the one line that he could absolutely count. on every single night seems to be Felino Greenway and Erick. They're the only line that hasn't been separable right now. But to me, it's like, you know, try Ericksonek there with Parisi and Caprizaf before you have to do the old, you know, put Caprice off and Fial it together for an entire game. Maybe go with a second line where you do move Johansson to second line center. A third line where Benino's now between Greenway and and Felino and then a fourth

line where you either have Sturm or you have Rask or, you know, figure something out there, Bukestead or something. But, you know, they've got to change something up. To get to Capri, South and Fiala together, I was surprised last night that, you know, you're chasing a game, you're playing a goalie that is, you know, absolutely locked in in John Gibson. And, you know, the night before, the game before, we saw late in that game, Johansson with Capri, South and Fiala, and we just never saw it again last night. And so, you know, last night, as good a job as Dean did coaching the first two games, I thought there were a lot of peculiar positions. I was surprised that he didn't change any of the lines late in the game.

I was surprised by the three defenseman power play look. It made no sense to me. And Dumbus said he's never seen anything like it either, or never seen it before either. So, yeah, I think that eventually we can see these two together, but right now I get on a team that doesn't have a lot of pure goal scores, why Dean would Caprice up and Fiala want to keep them on separate lines and also take two guys that usually play right wing and put one at left wing. Well, yeah, at least with Eric Connect, we haven't seen it fail, or at least there's the idea that he could keep up.

And so I'm interested to see it. You kind of need to get a shot. Yeah. And, you know, you see the value of, I think it's a very, it seems like an obvious point, but I think it is one worth making where skilled players who can see the ice feed off of each other and make each other so much better. I mean, just look at that in the second game in the overtime against the Kings, just the sort of the weaving and the puck movement between Johansson and Caprizzav that led to the winner, that's just something that if you have a kind of more meat and potatoes center playing with him and you're asking Caprisov to carry him or Fiala to carry them, you're going to have a tough time having that interplay between those two because the other player just either physically can't get there or through their smarts can't see the ice the way Caprizo can. you're kind of handcuffing him or limiting what he's capable of if you're not giving him

the proper linemates that can actually kind of play off of them and maximize his skill. And just, yeah, keeping up. I mean, you know, Victor Rask isn't keeping up with them. That's just a fact. So I don't know. I just, you know, part of me is shocked that we've gotten to this point three games in the season, but part of me is not. Like, we've all thought that the center issue was a problem with the wild.

And that's just like, you know, I know Billy's probably going to poo poo it when I get them on the podcast today, but there's no hiding the fact that when Victor Rask, who goes from not even being able, capable to playing in your bubble, goes to your top line center and on the power play this early in the season, it shows a bigger problem. And it's not like the wild lost to center here. You know, I mean, they have no injuries from a center standpoint, other than Rossi, who the wild were never just penciling in to just put in the lineup forever. So this is the team that they came into the season with, you know, minus an injured Matt Zucarillo.

And, you know, here we are in a situation where your centers are rasping, you know, Ericksonek and Bukestead. It's just a glaring issue. Yeah. Well, we've seen, it's very rare. We've seen a team like the Golden Knights, I guess, would be the example that I imagine Garen would hang his hat on as a team that's built pretty much through the wings and the blue line. at the same time, like William Carlson down the middle is so much superior to anything that this wild team has that it seems ambitious to just, and, you know, we still as good as Caprisov and Fiala have looked. There are no Mark Stone and Max Patscheretti yet either. So I'd pump the brakes on that, but at least I do think it runs very, I'm interested by the idea, I guess, because it's very counterintuitive. We're so built to believe that you just have to be, to be successful as an angel franchise. You have to build down the middle and then build out for.

there and it's the toughest position to get premium players at and they're usually really expensive and you have to draft them at the top of the draft and so I'm really curious to see if there is a more kind of an unorthodox way to go about putting together a roster and whether it can be successful and this is an interesting test case although just based on the play so far of the center as I'd say it's not a great start through three games yeah and that's why I'm good you know they're off today but I'm really interested to see what the line like in the final game of the road trip on Wednesday because I've got to think that we're going to see something scrambled up and it wouldn't shock me if Eckler is moved up.

I know Dean again doesn't want to do that, but something's got to change here. Like Zach Parisi after the game looked like last night, like he was just like, are you kidding me here? And I know that Zach would never say that, but at some point you got to worry about the frustration level of Fiala Parisi and Capriza off here if you're going to continue to play them with centers that just aren't up to par. And again, players are human beings, right? I mean, if you and I are talking about, I can't believe that Zach Parisi is playing with Victor Rask, I can't believe that Croc-Khal Khrasev is playing Victor Rask. You can't tell me that

that mindset is not in the locker room in these guys' heads when guys like Porezzi and Fiala don't even have an assist on the season, let alone a goal. I mean, what do you think Zach Porez thinking when he set up Victor Rass for a entire cage to shoot at and he can't score? you know that early in a game against a team that should that you should easily beat so yeah it could have changed everything yeah it kind of we'll see how it unfolds i'm really excited it's funny it's funny it's somebody tweeted me yesterday you're like are you thinking of doing a story on the rise of victor rask and i'm i'm like was it was it a paul fendon burner again breaks right now you know like like it's just you know like yes he scored a nice goal the

first game um but let's let's let's pump the break series Just because he's on the Wild's top line doesn't mean it's the right decision. Was it a Paul Fenton-Burner account? It might have been. Yeah. It might have been. All right. Well, Michael, this was a blast.

I'm really glad we got to do this. I know you're a busy man these days covering these guys. Plug some stuff. What are you working on these days? Where can people check out your work, all that good stuff? Yeah, the athletic.com. I think people know we over, we over advertise it, that's for sure. But yeah, theethletic.com slash wild.

If you just click on one of the stories, you could subscribe. We always have great discounts. for new subscribers. I got a couple podcasts, one on Talknorth.com, the other on The Athletic, that people could follow. And just, that's really about it. I'm overexposed here in Minnesota.

I got radio and TV doos as well. Well, keep up the good work. I'm sure that this is going to be a much more entertaining season than some of the ones you've had recently. And I'm looking forward to getting you back on sometime on the road and see if we get some answers to the questions we pose here.

Yep, thanks. Anytime, Dimitri. Before we get out of here, I wanted to make a couple quick notes to tidy things up. So actually, funny enough, after Michael and I finished recording, the NHL announced that they are recalling the pucks they've been using so far this season that had tracking chips in them and will be going back to the game pucks they were using last season, it sounds like

teams were expressing concern about the quality of them and how they were performing. And the reason why I bring that up is because, as you probably heard during the podcast, Michael and I were actually speculating about what could have been the cause of some of the weird puck bounces that have been going on and misplays with Kaprizov's passes. And it still could be some combination of the ice surfaces, nerves, whatever else. But it is funny that we spend a bunch of time talking about it and speculating about it. And then without any knowledge that this was actually going on behind the scenes, the NHL comes out and announces that this is something that. that has been a concern and has been voiced and is apparently an issue. So it's funny how that worked out. So hopefully, as you're listening, now that you do know that news, you're not yelling

at your device about why we're not mentioning it. And the other thing is, I did want to bring it up. It is kind of sad just because this project that the NHL is undertaking with tracking all this data and then hopefully one day publicly releasing it seems to be unable to get off. without a hitch. So at this point, I think it's fair to be very skeptical and cynical about when we're actually going to see it and what format's going to be in and how viable it's going to be. We're just going to need to see it to believe it because we've been given too many false alarms up until now. But yeah, that's going to be it for today's show. Please, if you haven't yet already, take a minute to rate and review the show. Every five-star rating is greatly appreciated. If you have the

time and you want to leave a quick little note and let people know what you enjoy about the show or why you recommend listening that goes a long way as well but it's it's uh it's just the cherry on top just the the rating itself is fine enough um yeah it's it's hopefully you enjoy this show um i know it's uh doesn't it's a full deep dive on the minnesota wild uh it's a little unconventional i get it but capriza really has been the talk of the league over the course of the first week he was the first star of the nchl and his first couple games in the n hl and So I wanted to get into it and there was no one better to do so within the Michael Russo. So hopefully you enjoyed it.

It is a bit tricky doing shows this early in the season just because each team's played two or three games and there's no real data to really get into a deep dive and have new ones conversations about. But as we get going here and as the samples build and as each team plays a bit more, we're going to be able to do some fun stuff. So keep an eye out for that. Keep listening. Thank you for checking today's episode out.

and we'll be back soon. Videocast with Dimitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.