The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 382: Winning Hab-its

Episode Date: January 26, 2021

Arpon Basu joins the show to help discuss the strong start to the season for the Montreal Canadiens, how their playing style and depth has helped them take advantage of a wide open North Division, and what we can learn from their early results. Topics include: Their hot start offensively How much stock to put into early season data The competition in the North Division How they're taking advantage of opportunities How they're creating those opportunities Balancing offense vs. defense, risk vs. reward Nick Suzuki's impressive start  How and why he played them out of PLD talks The team's forward depth The future of the center position Phillip Danault's value and next contract Protecting investment in Price Future questions they'll need to answer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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What's going on, man? How are you, man? It's been too long. It has been. When it was last time we chatted was the 2019 draft when we had some beers on my place and talked about the Canadians. Yeah, it was a different world back then.

A lot has changed. It has. We're doing this remotely. But no, this is going to be fun. We're going to hear a deep dive the Montreal Canadians, as people would expect when they see the year the guest. And you know what?

They've become the talk of the league. last week I did a pod with Michael Russo and it felt like it was very topical because Kirill Caprizov sort of took the league by storm and everyone was talking about him and now through the first two weeks it feels like the team that has really kind of generated the most attention or you know has really kind of opened people's eyes the most has been the Canadian so it feels kind of fitting to to give them a little bit of a deep dive here after the start they're off to yeah it's it's you know I mean it's honestly it's kind of hard to to try to judge, I guess, because the one thing I'm struggling with is like, does this say more

about the Canadians or does this say more about the Oilers and the Canucks? Because basically, those are the two teams they've played, right? They played the Meek Police once, but the other five games were against those two teams and they're two, you know, exciting teams with talented players, but they have their flaws. So it's hard to judge, but just from the, just from watching them so far, it just, it just appears that they don't have many glaring holes. I mean, obviously they don't have that kind of top end talent that both Vancouver and Edmonton does have and Toronto actually their three opponents so far but you know there's no there's no there's no weak link like in the sense you know I've always made the big strong link sport versus

weak link sport thing with hockey and and the Canadians seem to be like on a mission to prove that hockey is a weak link sport because right now the further down the lineup you go the more the advantage tilts to the Canadians and I feel like they're taking advantage of that well it's easy to see why people are excited. You know, when you start a year off on a six-game road trip in which you go four and two, you take 10 of 12 possible points. You score a league high, 29 goals. You're sporting a league best plus 12 goal differential just from the eye test. They really steamrolled, especially, you know, the Oilers and the Canucks for large stretches of play. I think part of why people are excited, though, beyond just the fact they've been fun to watch and they have good results is

we entered this season kind of looking at this depth chart, as you mentioned, with the weak link aspect of it and saying, listen, this team looks really deep. They have, they're prepared for whatever uncertainties are going to be thrown their way this season, especially with the condensed schedule. I think it's going to come into play. They're going to play really fast. This could be a problem and it could be really entertaining. And they come out of the gate looking exactly like that, kind of like the best case

scenario. So I think early season confirmation bias is a real thing where especially for this team, they were such like a trendy sleeper pick because right out of the gate everyone picked Toronto to come out of this division. and then there was a bit of a pushback of, oh, well, you know what? The Canadians look pretty interesting, and people kind of zag when other people are zinging.

And it feels like, I think, I think there's a bit of that confirmation bias where you're just watching, and you're like, oh, yeah, like we were onto something. It's kind of like that Leo DiCaprio pointing meme where you're just watching it, and you're like, aha, that's it. That's the thing.

And so I think part of that it does have to do with this where if this stretch happened during the middle of the season, I think people would certainly point to it and go, oh, wow, this is a great six-game run for them, let's see if it continues, but just because it's the first six-game sample right out of the gate, I think people are going to latch onto it that much more. Yeah, I agree with that to a certain extent. I mean, I think that the one thing I think is that the people who were who were sort of touting the Canadians before the season began were some of the more old-school type, some of the people

who liked that they got bigger on defense, that they got bigger in general, that they could play a heavier game, that they got more playoff ready, quote-unquote, you know, and, you know, the one question that I had, and I think a lot of people had, is that with a short training camp and no exhibition schedule, how is a team that made so many changes going to look coming out of the gate? So that's why I think that that early season confirmation bias comes in, because the expectation was that it was going to take them some time to gel and come together and improve. And honestly, that's still the case. This team is not playing as well as they could be playing. they're playing actually pretty poor defensively, which is kind of Claude Julien's, you know,

kryptonite, like it drives them crazy. And so that's going to, that's going to change. And that's where the jelling sort of comes in. And you look at guys like, you know, I once, I've spoken to several actually NHL scouts who always, you know, with Shea Weber gets off to a slow start or Ben Chirot or bigger guys who get off to slow starts, NHL scouts tend to write it off. They're like, you know what? Bigger guys, it takes them longer to get going. And they'll be fine. don't worry. And I've always kept that in mind. So, like, Joel Edmondson has a terrible night on opening night, and people spent the entire offseason ripping that signing. Like, it did not look like a smart signing at all. And then he goes out on opening night and

kind of proves that, proves that. But as every game has gone along, he's looked better and better than the other night, you know, listen, I'm not a, I'm not a code guy. But, you know, for him to go out and do what he did the other night with Tyler Myers, that plays big in the room. whether I like it or not is irrelevant. His teammates likes that stuff. And so, you know, there's little, we're going to see these little moments over the coming weeks and months, I guess, but I mean, definitely over the coming weeks,

where I think you will see, you know, some chinks in the armor, if you will. The Canadians are going to look like a new team. They're going to look like they're not, they haven't been playing together for years. But there are also going to be other elements of their game that are going to steadily improve as some of the players who just came in, get used to the system and the environment and everything that comes with being a member of the team.

Well, let's get into the in the six games. And I think, you know, there are the sort of the normal early season disclaimers and caveats where it's like we're only talking about six games. I think ideally would be looking at 15 to 20 games at least to really have any sort of major conclusions, especially with the numbers. But listen, like, especially in this weird season, this already accounts for over 10% of the schedule. So it's certainly not an insignificant period of time. I think the natural pushback and you raise this at the top was it's come against some, let's. Let's be generous and say loose defensive structures. Half their games have come against this Canucks team that's just completely unraveling before our eyes. I think their defense in particular has been disastrous now that they don't have as a caliber goaltending to bail them out. I think there were stretches during that three-game series where it really looked like it was like all-star game level setting where there was just so many two-on-ones. I felt really bad for Thatcher Demko, man. That night, like he couldn't come out because he needed Holpey. it was like it was verging on like a patrick was

a wess scenario like i mean it just there was one there was one goal that went in and you could tell he was really angry to still be in the game and i felt bad for him i mean clearcite analytics had them as uh had 13 expected goals for the canadians in those three games which is like just an astronomical number i know you really don't see that because usually like you know a team can have a strong three game stretch where they score a bunch of goals but you'll usually see that their actual goals are significantly ahead of the expected goals and in this case like the amount of chances, especially high-danger ones that Canucks were conceding, was alarming to say

the least. Now, what I would say to that is, listen, like, this is kind of what we expected from the North Division. I think we're expecting a lot of sort of track meet, open-ended, high-scoring games, and these are the teams they're exclusively facing this season. So we kind of, that's all we have. To judge them on, you can't go like, oh, well, this division is poor, especially like, I think most people projected Vancouver and Edmonton to be playoff teams in this division, and you're thinking, okay, well, these are the teams are going to play a bunch of times and they haven't even played

the Jets in the sands yet, and I think you could argue that those are even more poorest defensive teams. So this is kind of, I think, going to be the standard. We're not necessarily going to see seven goals every night, but I do think more often than not,

we're going to see some pretty open-ended games. And I also have a theory on, because the one thing that struck me against both the Canucks and the Oilers and even the Maple Leafs in that one game is how many breakways the Canadians are getting? And this, and I've thought about it, because you could chalk this up to early season,

you know, defensive lapses and that's probably a big chunk of what's happening here. But I do think that the way the Canadians are structured and the way they play, they play an extremely high pressure brand of forechecking. They do not give you any room to breathe when you have the puck. If you have the puck, you're going to have a Canadians forward on you very, very quickly. And you need to make a quick decision with that puck or else something bad is going to happen. So I think the further along you get in games, that becomes somewhat mentally exhausting. Like it just becomes, it becomes difficult to perform under those circumstances when it's line after line after line, after line doing the exact same thing.

You know, a lot of teams have good forechecking lines or maybe two good forechecking lines, but not many teams have four lines the way the Canadians come at you in that way, in a forechecking style and in a style that is constantly hounding the puck and press. pressuring it and just making you think and making you remain sharp. And so as the game goes along, I think that that style kind of lends itself to creating those lapses and creating those mistakes. And I will see if this is proven right as we go along. I mean, you know, the Canadians are welcoming. They have a little stretch here where they have no games. Thursday night, they finally play their home opener and they're welcoming the flames.

And I think the flames are probably the one team in the division that is not a defensive tire fire. You know, I mean, it's their team that can actually defend and has a good group on defense. So let's see what happens. I mean, I'm really curious to see how the Canadians fare against a team that has as good of a structure and as good of a personnel or a group of defensemen as the flames do. I think it's going to be a really interesting sort of measuring stick for this team. I'm with you. I think that's the thing that I've highlighted as worth most monitoring moving forward is how they've

been creating these scoring opportunities specifically. I think, you know, certainly they're skating and sort of this relentless pace they play at, helps like the forecheck i think generally tends to lead to higher frequency and just higher event hockey at both ends of the ice because it kind of stretches out the ice surface you're not necessarily just spending a bunch of time just kind of stuck in the neutral zone it feels like something's happening at one end to the ice or the other i think the other thing is what i've noticed is they've really been aggressive and by design it looks like in terms of um leaking out in transition kind of especially pressuring and contesting the blue line in the defensive zone and

And the reason why I bring that up, I think is notable is because I think it was the other day, Claude Julianne kind of highlighted it in one of his pressers where he was talking about how they've been leaving a lot of unattended ice in that kind of home plate area and the slot area. And that's been a point of concern for them. And that's going to happen. I think that's kind of the drawback. It's just the geometry of the ice where if you have two of your players up near the blue line contesting and looking to fly the zone, that's going to leave a lot of room open in the middle of the ice. I do think ultimately it's a net positive. I love the mindset. I love playing aggressively that way.

I think the rewards outweigh the risks in the long run. But we know how NHL coaches feel. And you mentioned how Claude Julian feels about it. I think I'd imagine that's going to be something they're going to look to tighten up. And I'm curious to see how that's going to impact those results, especially offensively, because it seems like they're kind of using that to their advantage to create a bit more than they normally would. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I would agree that Claude Julian eventually is going to want to, is going to want to, is going

want to tilt that that risk balance, if you will, in terms of I'd rather not risk giving up a goal than risk getting one. It's always been his natural instinct. The Canadians do have, you know, when you looked at them before the season, you saw Philip Denno elite level two-way centerman in the sense defensive play and not a great offensive centerman, but a really, really good defensive centerman and good enough offensively that he can sort of serve as a facilitator on his line. So you have that, you know, Salky caliber guy, and then you have three really young centers. And so what's happened so far is that two of those young centers, at the very least, have shown to be extremely competent in their own end. You know, Nick Suzuki and

Jake Evans can play in their own end at an NHL level. They're not necessarily a liability defensively. Nick Suzuki's definitely not. His hockey IQ and intelligence is off the charts and he can figure it out. And Jake Evans, who's a rookie, but is a 24-year-old rookie who played two years in the American Hockey League and has been groomed for this role for two years by Joel Bouchard with the Laval Rocket, gets it as well to a level that I did not expect him to get it at right now. So that allows you, I think, to leak a winger out from time. to time knowing that you have that level of depth in terms of of defensive competency at the

center position and the amount of speed they have on the wings so like you know Suzuki has johnson drew and josh anderson josh anderson who is way faster than i knew like i yeah i had seen him play and i knew he was fast i did not know he was this he's almost too fast for his own good i think yeah sometimes i mean i anticipate many goaltender interference penalties coming to that guy just because he can't he won't be able to stop in time but he keeps fast and he goes to he takes the puck to the net like it's there's no he has a wide enough frame that he can shield off a defender and go to the net and he's done it at least four or five times this season already and so so with that kind of speed on the wing um you know you have tatar and galgar on on on the deno line as well

and even leckenin and byron on the evans line which is the fourth line uh they are two extremely fast wingers and Arturi Lekinen said for the first time in my career I feel I'm the slowest guy in my line which is something because Lekinen is a plus skater like that's he has his faults but skating's not one of them so with that

combination I think that I think Jolien eventually will be able to find a balance there like I think at some point he's going to clamp down he's going to be like okay that's it we're taking care of our own end and then once they get that figured out then maybe he can start incorporating the stuff we've seen so far and find a better balance

between the two. Well, they've also been, you know, able to kind of capitalize and take advantage with the opportunities. I think while it's easy to point at, like, what, they're shooting nearly 14% overall and like 12.2% at 5-on-5, that's clearly not going to continue because, as we know, like last year, no team shot 10% at 5-on-5 and the Lightning led the league at 11% overall. Like, that's going to regress with more games, obviously, regardless of what the defensive environment is like. But I imagine for this team, you know, part of it is infusing the lineup with more skill and young players getting better. But part of it, I imagine, is also like they're relishing the fact that finally this is a team that historically, especially over the past couple years, has been

near the bottom in terms of converting on those opportunities. And now like it's, it's, I guess, a well-deserved little stretch, kind of like a respite for them where they're actually, like, turning that volume into actual results as opposed to being one of those analytical darlings, like the Carolina Hurricanes, or example, where it's like, oh, look at all the shot volume and they're like bottom five and shooting percentage for the full season. Yeah, but there's, you know, I think these two things go hand in hand that we've been talking about is that they're generating better opportunities. Like, that's really what's happening here.

They're getting more two-on-ones, three-on-ones, breakaways. It's a lot more, you know, I think a lot of that shot volume in the past came from their ability to play in the offensive zone, to cycle the puck, to play, to, you know, to kind of own the walls and maintain possession for long stretches of time and put a lot of puck's towards the net, but they weren't necessarily the most dangerous shots. You know, I mean, they have good expected goal numbers. Everything was good, but, you know, they had trouble getting to the middle of the ice in the past couple of years, you know, other than the Dano line, which did a decent job

of that because you had Brendan Gallagher, and Brendan Gallagher just lives in the middle of the ice. But, I mean, there was trouble, there was no depth in terms of being able to create opportunities from that home plate area. And now you have players on every line almost that can do that. I mean, maybe not the Lekon and Byron Evans line, though Byron's pretty good at it. But, you know, you have Tio Tifoli on that third line with Kakiniemi and Armiah, who's also pretty good at that.

Then you obviously have Anderson and Drew Aft, playing with a facilitator and a smart player like Suzuki, which has been their best offensive line so far. And Josh Anderson lives in that middle area of the ice. And then you have Gallagher. So you have a guy on every line that can kind of create those opportunities, those higher leverage, those higher end opportunities. that I think they've been creating in the past, which has resulted in the higher shooting percentage,

which will go down. But if they continue producing breakaways and these rush opportunities every game, that I don't know how far it will go down. Well, it'll go down somewhat, but I think they can maintain a pretty high shooting percentage, definitely compared to their prior years, if they continue creating the quality of opportunities that they've been creating so far. Yeah, certainly. There is a regression coming in that regard, but I think they're well-seeded to absorb it

just because of the volume, but also, as you mentioned, I think playing off the rush and creating your offensive 5-1-5 off the rush is kind of a life hack in hockey where it's a much different expected outcome than, you know, just cycling in the offensive zone and then getting it out to the point and kind of throwing it on net as we often see teams that lack that sort of dynamic skating have to resort to. But yeah, I mean, I mean, there's a lot here to consider. I want to talk more about Suzuki, it feels like you've mentioned him a little bit and we're 20 minutes in here and we haven't fully talked about it yet, which I commend us for. But I think the most impressive thing about him so far for me is that he's managed to somehow exceed his expectations that I had

for him, which seems almost impossible given the market he's playing in and how hyped he was after the playoffs. I did a season preview with our friend Andrew Berkshire before the season and we kind of highlighted him as a breakout player. And it felt like cheating a little bit because you could argue he'd already broken out, but I felt like the case was there because it felt like he is kind of the key that could help unlock a different type of ceiling for this HAB's team, especially offensively with his skill level. And we've sort of seen that already through the first couple games, whether it's on the power player, whether it is at 5-15 with Druin and Anderson, where their ability to create

all of a sudden takes this team from being, you know, a good, feisty, fast team that is deep to potentially having a player that actually can match the skill level and the, you know, the ability to create that some of these other thinner teams have with their star players. Well, I think the thing with Nick Suzuki is that you watch him play and if you watch his highlights, let's say, you're just like, you're wow, you're like, wow, that's a really, that's a really crafty, skilled player. But, and I admit that I'm sort of cheating. I got a piece coming out this week on sort of the little things in Suzuki's game that really make him very effective. They happen almost on every shift.

They're little sticklifts from behind that creates sort of a bad pass or like, or, you know, the way he angles guys off when he foreshacks, the way he's, he's become surprisingly more physical. He's, you know, he's 5-11 to 10, something like that. Like, he's a thick guy. And so he, and he's starting to use that. I mean, there were two or three times against Vancouver when he was in a confrontation with Pedersen, who's not the strongest guy in the world, but still,

it was a physical confrontation, and Suzuki's the one left standing. It's, you know, I don't think he deserves a medal for out-muscling Elias Pedersen, but still he's showing that that's an element of his game that he's willing to use at a relatively young age. It usually takes players a couple of years before they feel confident to physically assert themselves at the NHL level, and he's doing that this season. And so what I find so interesting for him as a prospect is that, or as a young player, I should say, is that, yes, he has the high-end skill and he has the vision and the IQ and everything that will make a great offensive player. But he has all these other layers to his game that most young players don't. That takes most young players many years to develop.

And, you know, I feel, you know, it's not right. Like Jonathan Drew on the other day said he's a mini Patrice Bergeron. The comparison has been used many, many times already. I don't think it's all that fair because Patrice Bergeron is Patrice Bergeron. It's Patrice Bergeron. He's almost a perfect hockey player. I mean, there's really no fault in his game that you can really find except for maybe his footspeed, which is the same criticism that Nick Suzuki gets.

So it's not fair, but then the more you think about it, the more you think like, okay, maybe he won't be a Patrice Bergerard, but he has a lot of the same qualities of a Patrice Bergerat, maybe a little bit less on the defensive side, but maybe a little bit more skill on the offensive end in the sense of his deception with his shot, the way he can deceive, he's a deceptive passer, he uses the angle on his blade

to really make defenders and goaltenders look the wrong way very often, and has a really acute understanding of how to do that and does it intentionally. It's not, it's not something that just, that just sort of happens by happenstance. It's, it's really an element of his game that he works on

and that he implements, uh, consciously. So the more you think about it, the more you, and Patrice Burson was obviously, was his idol growing up. He wore his number in junior.

It was, he was his favorite player and the, and the player that he kind of patterned his own game after. I'm not saying he'll be that player, but it's, it's great to have a player who, who, who looks to a player like Patrice Bergeron as a model.

Like that's what you want in your organization. Yeah, I think normally when those player comps get thrown around for young players, it's natural to sort of roll your eyes and be like, okay, come on. But it's because I think fans typically overhype young players on their favorite team. I think player comps are generally kind of lazy because you just latch on to one thing. And especially in this case, you're right, it seems a bit sacrilegious to compare anyone to an all-time great like Bergeron, who has so few flaws in his game.

But you do watch it. And I think stylistically, what stands out to me, you know, you mentioned the stick work. I think the positioning defensively, which allows him to compensate for the fact that he's not necessarily the big, as strong, or fastest guy. He can just kind of get it done through smarts. What really sticks out to me, and it's a very Patrice Bergeron-ish quality, is this kind of innate ability to be in a crowd and come out of that crowd with the control of the puck and then instantly be able to make some sort of a positive play. and we've seen it time and time again where there's a lot of players in this league who can on the rush with open space and a bunch of ice in front of them do really high level skill stuff and make crazy passes and shoot the puck but for him he's constantly time and time again

finding himself in these areas where he's got a defender or two on him and he just comes out of it with a puck and instantly hits someone in stride and that's like a really rare quality i think that is difficult to find in players and the list of guys who can do that is really low so that's where the comparison kind of gels for me where they get it done in a similar way but that particular area is something that I think is a very rare quality yeah and the one thing I would say about that as well is that notice how often he puts the puck in an area where his his teammate can skate into it like he puts he passes to space a lot um Kotkin amy does this actually really well as well um where you know like a quarterback almost where you got to throw to a throw to a spot

where your receiver is going to be. And it seems simple because that's just a basic tenet of passing. You want to pass the puck to where your teammate will wind up being. But not everyone is able to do that at this kind of a level. And in areas of the ice that are as dangerous as Suzuki tends to do it in, you know, he had a couple of situations against Vancouver. You know, well, when you made that little highlight package of them, there was that little backhand saucer to Petrie like coming down the middle of the ice all alone.

he did that in a crowd and then the one where he sort of dangled you know he sort of well he did something to quinn hughes but he basically left him in his wake and then sets it on a t for jonathan drew in the slot for a high for a really high scoring opportunity and he does stuff like that all the time and the thing is he does stuff like that in his defensive zone as well like that's what's crazy is that he'll wind up like you watch him in the defensive zone and he's always and he's done this since junior is he's what i call a lurker he he lurks he he goes he swoops around on the ice and he always seems to know when to arrive in an area of the ice at the right moment and we'll and then he'll and then he'll swoop and he'll give like two quick strides and now all of a

sudden he has the puck and not only as he have the puck he knows what he's going to do with it and it's on a teammate stick going the other way before you know it and so a defensive situation turns into an offensive situation very quickly with him and that's something Phil Donneau does really well as well and so it's you know to for him to have the combination to be able to do that specific thing that you mentioned, but do it in both zones is what I think makes him a really special and effective player. But it's, let's see.

I mean, you know, he's going to, you know, I want to give him some time. He's looked great so far. But, you know, last season, you know, 50 or so games in or 60 games in, he started to slow down a little bit. I think he's more physically ready to face the rigors of a season this year. But, you know, he's 21 years old. So it's, he's going to have some.

bad things happen to him. I just, it's hard to see right now what that will be because he's playing so well. That sounded so ominous. He's going to have some bad things happen to him. No, I mean, listen, there's going to be stretches obviously where he goes three or four games without a point and people are, I'm sure in Montreal are going to panic about it. But that's kind of what happens over the course of a full season. You know, it's interesting you bring up that lurking though, because I was thinking as a thought exercise watching these games where sometimes I wish they'd kind of center him more. on their power play scheme in terms of just funneling the offense through him because he's such a smart player and his touch is so perfect that you know you'd think that he could really create more for them and maybe they'd be better suited not just seemingly kind of catering everything to to webber bombs or kind of passing it around the point but I think maybe part of the value there is there like if you don't have the puck on his stick all the time he can kind of lurk like that where he gets lost in coverage he can create our broken plays with the with the uh penalty kills crambling.

We've already seen it a couple times, whether it was when he set up Tyler DeFoli for that easy tap in, or whether it was him bouncing on that rebound in the opener against the Leafs, where I think a player like him kind of benefits maybe from not necessarily having the puck the entire time because he's sort of crafty enough to get around the offensive zone and make it count, even though he didn't have it, if that makes sense. Well, to be honest with you, the Canadian's intention is to have him quarterback the power play. what I think you're seeing so far is teams are are recognizing his his threat value

you know I mean they really don't what the teams have done that the canines have faced so far is they don't want the puck in his hands and he's good enough with the puck and good enough at recognizing that that if that's if teams are going to do that then he's going to get rid of it and try and find an opening that way but but the canadian's intent is really to have Suzuki be, like the Suzuki

drew a combination on the half wall and at the goal line with DeFoli in the bumper, that triangle is what the Canadians are trying to exploit on the power play. That's where they want the puck to be and have Weber be there as a guy who can get lost, as a guy who maybe penalty killers will eventually forget about if that triangle can be dangerous enough and have Petrie up top as well as the same threat level.

That's two right-handed shots. which are one-timers that both Suzuki and Drew-en-set-up for shots, Webber on the back door, Petri up top. And Suzuki, with that cross-scene pass that last season, he did very effectively with Tatar, which was weird, a left shot in that left circle, but he scored a ton of goals from Suzuki setting him up from the right circle over to Tatar in the left circle, and then he would shoot it not on a one-timer, but obviously because he was a lefty, but still would get some really great shot. That's where his, Suzuki's deception comes in, is so many of those came on, on passes that looked like shots. So the goalie was late getting over because he was anticipating a shot from

Suzuki. All of a sudden, the puck is clear on the other side of the ice, and Tatar had half a net to shoot at. So we haven't really seen that happen yet, but I think it's because teams are coming at Suzuki as soon as he gets the puck and forcing him to get rid of it because they're recognizing that he is, he has, there's multiple threats when Suzuki has. the puck in terms of who he can pass it to, what he can do with it, and the different, and just the level of imagination of the player, I think teams have already recognized that they don't want that. They don't want to face that on the power play. Well, and it will make them so interesting or tantalizing of the talent is so, it's so kind of counter to what you expect from a

Canadian's player over the past couple years, where he has done a lot of his damage on the power play as opposed to five on five. And I think, listen, like, I wanted to be clear that I, I, I, I want it to be clear that I think the sky's the limit for him. I've been wildly impressed by him. And I think that, you know, he can only go up from here. I mean, he's still only 21 years old and he has a point in every game. I do think, you know, when we talk about how dominant he's been or where he ranks in terms of the league centers, I think some perspective, though, in terms of the five-on-five production does need to be accounted for. We're early in his career. He hasn't necessarily, you know, he's got only, I think, eight five-on-five goals so far in the NHL, 24 points now.

you know like you alluded to there's been certainly been opportunities so far this season where he set people up in the slot with beautiful looks and he could easily become a primary system 5-15 and and that profile would look different and I think the skill is certainly there I think the eye test matches the underlying production in terms of how well he's been playing with Anderson and Drew N is all there and they're going to get their goals if they keep generating the types of shots and chances they have at this point of the season but that is still sort of the last layer or the last wrinkle to come here because in his own zone defensively as we talked about he's excelled on the power play he's a really dangerous threat now when he if he starts adding

that five-on-five production to his resume as well then all of a sudden you're talking about him being in that tier with the top centers yeah and you know i think his well a lot of his underlying numbers of five-on-five last season were not good they're actually among the worst on the team and that's where it really didn't match the eye test you know i mean that was really you watched him play and all you saw was good. But, you know, his goals against numbers were very high. His shot numbers were not in his favor. There were a lot of things that went against him at five on five last season. But the thing about that, that line is, you know, Drewane's working on it, but we'll never be a plus defender. You know, we'll never be a player who was all that great without

the puck. He's gotten better. And he's made a point of getting better at it, but he'll never be great at it. Anderson's a little bit better, but, you know, that so far the season, we have seen moments where they do get stuck in their own end, where they're not able to create a, you know, to create a change of possession and get going on offense. There's been entire shifts that they've spent in their own end. And that's only normal, and it's going to happen. They do have the skill and the, and sort of the, that line has the components in Drew and

Suzuki and Anderson that really seemed to mesh well together that you know three components that you would want on a forward line but I think the beauty of this for Suzuki for Kotkinemi for Drew and for some of the guys who who have been maybe not Suzuki but definitely Kotkinemi and Drewie who have been sort of magnets for criticism even though Kotkinemi is only 20 that's actually the case because this is what my city is like but the way that the team is made up is that you can sort of hide, you can hide that stuff. As long as the other lines are doing well,

or as long as someone's producing, the Canadians are at least going to be in games and in a position to win games, so that, you know, like Jonathan Joy has scored his first goal of the season the other night, you know, in his sixth game. I think in normal circumstances, if Jonathan Drouye went five games without a goal

to start the season, it would be a thing. It would be a topic of conversation in Montreal that Jonathan Drew is not scoring. he's a bum he's never going to be good they never should have trade to surrogachev blah blah blah blah blah it no one was talking about it it was really i mean he had a lot of assists he had those three assists on opening night and you know he but and it was a minor talking point that that line after that opening night game against toronto had gone a little cold in edmonton and so it became a minor thing but like jonathan drew it was not the focus of attention which i think is for the first time in his

in his life really but really definitely since he's been in montreal um where that's the case, where he can just be one of the, one of four or five really effective forwards on this team. So if one of them's not going, as long as two or three of the other ones are, not that big of a deal. And so, you know, the inevitable slumps that Suzuki will have and Kokanyemi will have and Drewane will have and anyone will have, I think will be offset by the fact that their scoring depth should be significant enough that they can absorb any kind of slump that they seem to hit. As long as those slumps don't coincide, they should be okay. Yeah, they've currently got three of the top eight lines in a 5-on-5-expected goals year in the entire league.

So that'll certainly help. But I think, yeah, you're right. Like with Suzuki Anderson and Drew, and I think they're hovering around like 70% in terms of shot shared expected goal share. And I think they've scored, they've generated five goals in 57 minutes, which you'll obviously do. I think they complement each other really well stylistically.

It makes sense. And I'm really curious to see. how things go for them because you're right the depth is there so uh the burden necessarily won't be on them and especially when you have a five on five line that's kind of as dominant as dano tatara and gallagher it allows them to not have to necessarily carry the burden every single night and for zizuki with what he produces on the power play as well um that's kind of something to factor in but i did just want to highlight it because i don't want people to you know listen to the first 30 minutes of the show and hear i was talking about zizuki as patrice berger on and think that we've completely gone

off the rails here and lost perspective. I do think that that is something that has, if you're telling the full story here in terms of the start of the season, needs to be said, but clearly for a player of his age and certainly the, there's just the skills in the process are there. So you'd think that those five-on-five numbers will come if they keep playing this way.

Yeah, and the beauty of the Den O line is, is really that to have a line that can stop momentum the way they do. You know, like they're, if the opposing team is gaining some sort of momentum where they spend two, three shifts in your end, you can throw that deno line out there. And frankly, they have not been fantastic through the earlier. They have not been up to their usual standard, I should say, in terms of controlling play and and hemming teams into the offensive,

into the Canadian's offensive zone. You know, they, you know, they could have some improvement on that level. but generally speaking what that line does for the Canadians is that they're a momentum buster. Like all of a sudden you're scrambling around, you're chasing the puck, you're unable to get the puck for a long stretch of time. And then that line comes out and spends its entire shift in the offensive zone. And all of a sudden the next line does it and the next line does it. And so that's a real luxury for a coach to have. You know, there's a few lines around the league that you could do that with, obviously.

most of them aren't as sort of I don't know how you say like vanilla I guess the way this line is you know they're not none of them are superstar players you know they're all good very good players but they're not star level players even though I think Gallagher should be but he's really

not considered an NHL star but you know again the three players stylistically fit so well that it works. And they're able to create that offensive zone time. And they're able to give the other lines on the team a little bit of momentum when they come on the ice.

But in the past, those other lines weren't all that effective. Like they needed that. Whereas now those other lines can take that and run with it. You know what I mean? Potentially. Like they could take some. Champions aren't born. They're made.

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Go to Shopify.com slash bluewire to start selling online today. Shopify.com slash blue wire. Some of the momentum created by a deno shift in the offensive end and really start hammering on it. And so, you know, we'll see how, we'll see how that tends to work. but it's the deno line's greatest value to me is is to just get the team to like just take a break in the sense where if if they're getting hammered by the other team that deno line is a way to counter that and maybe even flip it and so we have they haven't they haven't needed that yet so far this this season but they will at some point it's good to have in your back pocket when you

when you will yeah they're kind of like stabilizers like you yeah you know you won't go too many shifts in a row stuck in your own zone because you can can throw them out once in a while. Yeah, let's save down for a second because I do have a bigger point to make on him. But just one last thing on Suzuki, I think it is a testament to how good he's look that he, you know, just completely played himself out of any possible trade discussion. I know it didn't stop people from talking about it online, but just based on the conversations I've had with people that know a thing or two, like the haves were never really that far along

in the pure Luke Dubois trade discussions, especially towards the end. They were obviously interested where like as hockey writers were contractually obligated to mention the 22 year old number one centers don't become available often. Just a line you've heard quite a bit and certainly the link is there to his hometown team wanted to plan a bigger market. I get all that but it seemed pretty clear from what I gather that, you know, Columbus asked for Suzuki. Bergerand was like, yeah, that's not happening and that's pretty much it. I don't even know how far down the road they went entertaining Akkad Kanemi or some sort of other package. but it just felt like without Suzuki on the table because he had played himself out of it, the Canadians weren't going to beat Winnipeg's offer in terms of kind of present-day value.

And so that's what happened there. Yeah, basically. I mean, I think if Bergeriv had been willing to trade Suzuki, then that trade would have happened. He clearly wasn't. That's obvious. I think Suzuki and Romanov, Romanov, I should say, were the two real untouchables in the Canadians' eyes in that deal. I have not been able to ascertain one way or the other if Kokanyami was ever on the table. I would be surprised if the Canadians were willing to do that.

My guess is that they were hoping Columbus could come to an agreement on an extension with Deno and that he would be a centerpiece along with prospects, you know, perhaps even a Cawfield or a Kaden Gouli, some of their higher end prospects plus draft picks and what have you. but Deno being the guy to like replace Dubois for the now and then the prospects being the the plus for the future obviously if I'm Yeramo kick line and I don't do that that just makes no sense but I would insist on at least Kockiniemi and that I haven't been able to nail down for obvious reasons if that was ever on the table but you know for the Canadians to think you know well into Friday night that they were in it to some extent, you got to imagine that their offer was at least

somewhat attractive to Columbus. And I'm just, I have no idea what that could have been without either Kotkanami involved or a signed and sealed deno involved. And I don't know how, I don't know to what extent that would even move the needle compared to Liny and Rosovich. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure how, how close they were actually there. But I do think part of the calculus clearly with Suzuki was, you know, you can argue about Suzuki versus Pierre Loke-Wa in terms of present-day value, but I think clearly for the Canadians, the appeal of having him at some million, one million per year for this year and next, and then four more years of team control. I think, you know, like that sort of financial and contractual consideration

for this team is interesting, because I remember when you and I did our show, did a show together before we were talking about how they had sort of lined everything up contractually and how how they were trying to figure out, you know, what the next step was and what they were going to do. And now when you kind of look ahead, starting next year, they've got nearly 40 million, I believe, in cap commitments to, like, Price, Weber, Petrie, Gallagher, and Anderson. And they had Tatara and Dano coming up as UFAs. And I'm really curious to see what's going to happen there and how they're going to value Deno because I think, listen, like, for whatever reason, people just seem to really want a pencil,

Suzuki and Kakunyemi ahead of him, and I get that he's not the flashiest player. He referred to him as vanilla. But man, he is such a boss of a player. We heard McKinnon recently kind of single him out as the most annoying player to play against. In 1,500, 5-on-5 minutes together over the past two-plus years, that line is outscoring teams 81 to 48 and has north of 60% of the shot share and chance share. They've just been ridiculous. And I think for Deno, we get so preoccupy.

with just looking at goal and point totals and judging players that way. And it's easy to see when you look at him career high and 13 goals, I believe, 53 points. Most people that don't watch him closely would say, what's the big deal of that? But here's a fun stat for you. He's got 85 on 5 points the past two years. Eichl has 82. Ryan O'Reilly is 79. Barzal is 78.

Peer Luke Dubois is 77. Like, that's pretty good company. And I think most people wouldn't typically think of Philip Deno as this guy that creates a ton of offense and doesn't put a big point totals. But if you look at the underlying numbers, you look at what he does at 5-1-5, he's been one of the best centers in the league for two-plus years now. And he's entering this UFA period where I believe he's going to be 28 years old. The team is kind of positioned for the future. We heard some rumblings about, you know, his place in the organization and how he felt about all of that a couple months ago. I'm really curious to

see what's going to happen there and how he's going to be valued moving forward. Well, you know, the interesting thing here is, okay, so do we, what gets benched on Thursday night, is that right? Yep. On Friday afternoon, La Press, Matthias Brunet at La Press, gets a scoop that Philip Deno, shortly after Jeff Petrie signed his extension in the fall, Philip De No rejected a six-year $30 million offer from the Canadians. This is according to La Press.

Journal de Morial later the same day confirms that and says there were two offers on the table, one for six times five at 30 mil, another for five times five at 25 mil. Both were rejected by Philip Dinoe, apparently. This comes out the day after Pierre-Luc Dubois gets benched by the Columbus Blue Jackets. I'm just saying. It's a coincidence. But it's a very tricky situation for the Canadians

because everything you just mentioned is 100% true. Philip Dainaut has every right to be paid accordingly, according to all the things that you just said and all the things that he has done over the last couple. a couple of years and he is a legitimate selky caliber center that's that's there's no doubt about that in my mind the question is to what extent the canadians value that and to what extent does philip dinoe think he's worth like what does he think he's worth and so when you look around the league and you look at john gabriel peggot's contract with the islanders philip dino has every right

to say well i am way better than john gabriel peggot like there's no doubt in anyone's mind that he's a more valuable player than J. G. Pajot. And if J.G. Pajos is signing for $5 million a year, then I should be worth at least six, let's say. And at that point, it gets really tricky for the Canadians because of all the other commitments that you mentioned earlier. And because at some point, Suzuki's going to have to get paid, Kakkanem's country is up after this season. He'll likely sign a bridge. But then he'll, but then he'll, he'll obviously have to get his big contract as well. Ramanov burned a year of his entry level last year by just by going to the bubble.

So Hill's contract will be up in two seasons at the same time as Suzuki's. So there's a lot of financial pressure points coming up. And Deno's going to have to fit into all of that. And so I don't know what's going to happen there. Honestly, like I have no idea if the Canadians can afford to keep him, if they think they can afford to keep him. And I don't think Dano should give them a discount in any way, shape, or form, if I may am. So it's going to be a tricky situation, but it's very interesting that the news came out that he rejected a six-year offer worth $30 million, which again makes you believe that he's looking at the Pajot deal and saying, I'm not taking the same amount as him per year.

But how Bergerivé navigates this whole thing, particularly with Dainaut. And not enough gets said about Tatar. Tatar's been a highly effective offensive player for this, not only for this team, his entire career. I think he's on six straight 20 goal seasons. I mean, you know, not a high-end score, but a very consistent, effective offensive player who is going to be hitting 30. And, you know, to what extent the Canadians need – and Canadians are really thin on the left side at forward. And again, this here he's proving that he's a vital player for this team. So how those two situations play out is going to be super, super interesting.

I think one thing is for sure is that they won't be traded at the deadline if things continue going this way. I'm not too worried about the Tatar just because we saw, I don't think the market's going to change that much this coming off season compared to last year because teams are still going to be up against it financially. And so, you know, when you see what Tyler DeFoli went, for example, and, you know, Craig Smith and these awesome two-way point producing centers that got woefully underpaid just because there wasn't enough money to go around for them, I think I'm not too worried about Tatar. as for Dano, like he's going to be turning 28. This is, you'd think, going to be his one chance to really strike big contractually, especially if it's a long-term deal that's going to take him into his early to mid-30s. And he has played like a guy that deserves to be paid for that. And so I think it's just a tricky situation to navigate for the Canadians because I'd really caution against overlooking his contributions and getting too excited about the future of Suzuki and Kalkanemi down the middle because that is still the engine that kind of makes this team operate.

and function properly. And if you remove that from the equation, I wonder how everything else would look around them. But it is a pretty good spot for Dan O2, because while he has been this good, I'm not sure necessarily that you could pluck him and put him into a situation where he's having to carry a line with two sort of replacement level wingers beside him

and what those results would look like. Like playing with Tatar and Gallagher is a perfect fit for him. And so it's kind of one of those situations where it's a match made in heaven for the player and the team, but just because of other factors, it might get complicated to the point where something kind of unfortunate has to happen for both sides.

Well, it's, I mean, the reality of it, and I don't think you would be unreasonable for the Canadians to think of it this way, is that, you know, when they are at their peak level in terms of contender status, Philip Deno would be the third center on the team. Like, if they become contenders, let's say,

That would mean that Nick Suzuki has become a legitimate top line center. Yesprey Kokanyami has become a legitimate second line center. And then you have the ultimate luxury of having Philip Deno is your third center. Then what is that worth? How do you properly price that if he's your third center? The other issue is that they have, currently they have Jake Evans centering their fourth line. I think Jake Evans is going to be a really great fourth line center in this league, maybe even a third line center.

And below him, they have Ryan Pailing, a former first round pick, who you could see in a not so distant future becoming a player somewhat similar to Philip Danoe in the sense that he's bigger than Dado. He can skate more or less at the same level as him. You know, whether he has the same, you know, sort of intelligence aptitude that Dano does,

remains to be seen and probably doesn't. But it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to say, well, Ryan Paling could become a very good third-line center, maybe not as good as Deneau, but would be paid like a third-line center and would allow us to fill our salary structure in a more appropriate way.

And so it's not necessarily discarding what Deno means to this team, but it's the reality that as he hits his 30s, his role is going to diminish naturally as these two young centers continue improving. And so, how do you price that? It's tough. I don't know.

It's a tough one. It is, but I will say I've seen plenty of teams in this league get themselves into trouble by building their team around the best case scenario of all their young players hitting their absolute ceiling because we know that unfortunately that just not always how the league works and things happen and players don't develop the way you'd ideally think they would based on their potential and how they looked in smaller roles and you can't necessarily extrapolate it to say, okay, well, this guy who looks good as a third center

is going to look just as good as a second center. That's sometimes not how it works. And so I think once you start sort of stripping that depth, which is what's making this team special right now, and asking players to take a step up and play more than maybe they're suited for, that's when you can get yourself into trouble. So obviously, you know, in a cap environment,

especially in a flat cap environment right now, there will be casualties and you're going to have to make tough choices. But I do think it's kind of, I think nationally, I'm sure I've been talked about in Montreal, but I think nationally it's kind of being a bit of an undertold story. Yeah, and I think that the actual finances of the league, like I could see Daino being willing to take a shorter term deal and maybe take another shot at free agency in two or three years if the dream contract he's hoping for isn't out there. And that's a real possibility. You know, I mean, the Canadians were the only team to offer Tyler Toffoli more than a two-year contract. like you know i mean and and tyler coming considering what he's done in l.a his whole career what he did in

Vancouver in the short time he was there that was a really attractive player and the fact that the canines were the only team that could offer him a four-year deal uh you know is very telling of what the marketplace was you know in the fall and what it will be in all likelihood uh this summer so deno has to really navigate that but i would imagine he's not thrilled about the idea that that it somehow got out that he rejected those two contract offers back in the fall. Yeah, but the wing market is different for guys like Tafoli and Tatar. I wonder, like, you know, a team like Minnesota, for example, that has Fiala and Caprizov now, it's like they need a center so badly.

There's any number of teams that could desperately use a Philip Dend. I do wonder if, if we'd see some more aggressive offers for him just to land him because he's so good right now. So, yeah, we'll see. I guess one final thing to talk about. is the goaltending because it was such a priority this offseason for them and adding a second goalie they could reliably use to spell Price and not play them as much as they had in the past while still giving themselves a chance to win.

You know, so far, so good, two starts, two wins for Jake Allen. Getting seven goals in the second game of run support certainly helps. But listen, like, I think considering what they've been through the past two years where I believe they won 13 of 31 games, Carrie Price didn't start, this was clearly a very pressure point for them where they had an 888 percentage from guys like Niam E. Lingren and Kincaid.

So I know initially and myself included, I kind of had my eyebrow raised because, you know, so many goalies were going to be available this off season. St. Louis in particular was so up against it contractually that they had to move Jake Allen. So you looked at it like, oh, it's kind of weird that the Canadians are the ones paying an asset here or not the other way around to take this contract off their hands.

But just considering the cap flexibility they had, the fact that they had a million draft picks. And the one they gave for Allen was actually the one that they got for basically renting out Aaliyah Colchuk for like 15 games. They were uniquely positioned to do so. And I think I also imagined that part of the logic there was they were able to lock up Allen for two more years after this one at a reasonable cap hit.

And I imagine he'll be appealing to Seattle and expansion draft. So there was a lot of considerations. there, but I do think, you know, it was interesting that they clearly targeted this one player and we'll see what kind of a role he's going to have this season, because I imagine they're going to want to really scale back Price's appearances in these 56 games. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, they haven't said this bluntly, but I would think the target for Allen is somewhere from 18 to 20 games this year and have, you know, 36 to 38 for price. The thing about Allen is for a long time, the front office, their belief was that, and I think quite reasonably so, but a lot of people's belief is that, well, we've paid, we've decided to pay price $10.5 million a year.

We can't justifiably spend a lot of money on a backup because that throws your entire cap structure completely out of whack. But what they failed to realize, you know, I use the analogy or marketing. or Mark Antoine Godin is the analogy during the pause of someone who goes out and buys a really fancy car but then doesn't spend enough on tires uses regular gas

goes to like the cheap garage instead of going to like some expensive garage just basically does all the cost cutting measures you could possibly do on maintenance because of what they spent on the car initially to the point where the car no longer functions the way you wanted to function. That's really what was going on here,

was that they spent on the fancy car and they did not want to spend on the maintenance. So now they're spending on the maintenance. And this really came to light two years ago when the Canadians, you know, surprisingly were in the playoff race. The Canadians were in California, and they were in San Jose, and they were playing in Anaheim the next night.

Anaheim was terrible. San Jose was the real tough game there. And Claude Julien sort of overthought it and played Niemi against the sharks. He kind of gave that game away. And then he started Price against the Ducks. So the Canadians played amazing against the Sharks and lost solely because of Niemie. And then went to Anaheim and played like garbage and got pumped for like six or seven goals.

Price took his stick and broke it over the crossbar. And they lost that game as well. And Niami never started another game for the Canadians. Price played the last off top of my head like 16 or 18 games that season. so that even if they did get into the playoffs, Price was in no shape to actually play in the playoffs. Like, he was, he was so, he was so strung out at that point in terms of playing every night.

Even had they made the playoffs, there's no way they would have gotten through a round of the playoffs because Price would have been exhausted. So they saw that and decided that the solution was Keith Kincaid. Like, like how they thought that that was her thing. You know, and that was like Stefan Wade had a real hole. They're like their goaltending coach, who I think was big in that signing

was a big factor in that signing and who looked you know to be fair you know two seasons prior Kincaid had been lights out for the devil's really good been thrown into a starter's role but he got them into the playoffs I believe he got them into the playoffs yeah Schneider

was was a nightmare and he really saved them and so I think they were basing on that but the season that he had played just before signing with them he was he was terrible and turned out to be terrible for the games I think he played three games before they sent him to the miners So now they decided finally to spend on on to you know to buy the premium gas basically and and to buy it to go to the fancy European garage as instead of you know instead of Mr. Loub or whatever like you know like they basically decided to take care of their high price car and we'll see how it goes.

So far I mean yeah you're right the run support on Jake Allen but in the two games he's looked really solid and and they finally have a backup who plays the puck almost as well as price does. So it allows the Canadians to play the same way around him because of how good Jake Allen is at playing the puck. So there's a lot of there's a lot of upside there, but I think you nailed it. The real upside was the extension and was how attractive Jake Allen will be to Seattle, which will save them from losing a young defenseman

like a Victor Mette or a Kale Fleury or Jake Evans, maybe even up front. They have a lot of young players who are eligible for the expansion draft that they risked losing, that now they maybe won't because Jake Allen is really going to be an attractive piece to Seattle to form some sort of tandem with like Anton Hudobin or or some other goalie that'll be available. There's going to be a lot available to them, but Jake Allen might be the best one. Yeah, yeah, I would say like committing 15 million or so in your cap to goalies isn't a good long-term solution, but they clearly viewed it as a one-year kind of aberration or in a vacuum here.

And you're right, it is protecting your investment. I think they've got price for another six years, including this one. He's 34 this summer. No goal he played more than in the past two years. It was clearly something that they needed to do. So yeah, I mean, I guess that is my question with this team to kind of wrap up this conversation because we've talked about especially their forward depth, how good they've been offensively, how aggressive they've been.

We also did mention how that sort of leads to maybe some more high-danger chances coming back the other way. and I guess sort of how good this team can be defensively and keeping the puck out of their own net, which includes both the defense and the goalies, is going to be the thing that determines ultimately, like what the upside for this team is moving forward, because I feel confident that they're going to score a lot of goals. It's going to be a matter of what type of games they're going to have to be playing and whether they're going to need to be outscoring their problems

or whether it's going to be more sort of comfortable sailing. The one thing I think that they've done is, they've built a defense that they believe will be more effective in the playoffs than it is in the regular season. You got Shea Weber, Ben Chirot, and Joel Edmondson, just those three are guys that you can see once the whistles get put away in the playoffs, those guys will be more effective. You know, I mean, I just remember, you know, from a decade ago, Hal Gill was a terrible regular season defenseman, but you loved having them on your team in the playoffs because no one called anything. So he could hold guys, he could tug on guys, he could do all sorts of. the things that he wasn't allowed to do, then he becomes a lot more effective. And he can play against the Sidney Crosby and actually be effective and not look like a fool. And so I think that

that's the hope is that the defense they've built is, yes, they're going to have moments during the regular season where they look slow and where they look like they're having trouble keeping up with a lot of the sort of the high-end offensive players that are in the division. Once you get into the playoffs and the rules get sort of loosened a little bit, those guys might become a lot more effective. And so, and with Arrested Price, we'll see. He hasn't been great so far this season. I thought he was good in Toronto, even though he gave up, you know, five goals or whatever it was. He's been asked to make a lot of tough saves. He has, and he's made a lot of tough saves. But, you know, he hasn't, the numbers don't look good. So that's always the thing with

price is that, you know, this is why he wins the player poll every year for who would you want in Nets for a game seven. I think part of it is that no other goal he has really taken the mantle as world's number one goalie. But a lot of it has to do with the way he intimidates shooters. Like he really has an ability to get into the heads of offensive players and make them feel like they need to make a perfect shot to beat him. And having that is somewhat an advantage, but it's a real advantage in the playoffs if he's on his game. And I think we saw it in the summer when Pittsburgh couldn't get anything by him. And even Philadelphia didn't score that much on him. It's just that the Canadians couldn't score on Carter Hart. So what did that executive?

But that's a good point. What did that executive say to Craig Cousins? He looks like he's going to stop the puck that was yeah that was funny yeah it just looks like he's gonna stop it did he stop it it made me it makes me think of the scene in money ball where they talk about the guy's girlfriend yeah he's got he's got an ugly girlfriend so he must be a bad he must have low self-confidence or something i know this is all these all scouting speak but but i you know speaking of players like there is there is carry price does have an ability to make a player think like I need to hit the top corner here or there's no chance and they wind up missing the net. And that's a real thing.

Like that actually exists with him. So, but we'll see. I think those, I think you nailed it. The big question marks for this team is how can they survive the regular season when I think the defense is going to have some issues from time to time. And I think the goal tending is probably going to be an issue from time to time. But up front, they look pretty good. Yeah, I think you're, you seem to be higher on Joel Edmondson and I am still.

Like, for me, watching that Toronto game, I get it. It was the first game. He's awful. I understand all of it. I think his ability to deal with incoming speed is not going to get better, unfortunately. And I totally get that, you know, it's a different climate in the playoffs. And at the same time, though, like that Hal Gilcom, it's, the NHL is different now than I was 10 years ago. And I do, for sure.

I do think eventually they're going to need to explore maybe bumping Kulak up to play with Petrie. And they had great success last year. So I'm kind of curious to see when that's going to happen. But I do understand, like, having Kulak and Romanov as sort of this, like, super-duper sheltered third pair is a pretty nice little luxury for Klajulian. It is, but it's also like the reason you would do that is because Edmondson's not being effective. So do you really want to anchor Romanov with this ineffective defenseman who's slow and is having trouble defending, frankly, and is getting caught up ice?

a ridiculous number of times like so far it's it's really weird um do you really want to hamper like your your stud rookie defenseman by pairing him with the guy like that like i think kulaq's perfect for him because kulak can skate and he can make decisions and he can you know he set up a great goal by sussuzziuki the other night he's a good defense like i like him as a mobile smart defenseman and and a good partner for romanov uh putting edmondson back there you know you don't want to be asking your rookie defenseman to start start cleaning up the mistakes of your veteran partner. Like, that's really not an ideal situation either.

It is, but I think the exposure is a bit different because especially so far, I think Julian's done a nice job of getting Romanov out against, like, fourth lines and a lot of offensive zone opportunities. And I think if you're going to have Edmondson with Petrie in that top four role, that's kind of exposing them to a much higher risk of what's going to happen in your own zone, whereas at least in the third pair and more offensive opportunities, like the damage can be kind of limited to an extent.

but I mean, if we're talking about this about a player you just signed for four years, 14 million, that's obviously not ideal. So I think they're still kind of holding out hope that that experiment is going to get better over time. Well, that's the reason why you think that I'm higher on Edmondson than you are is because I'm willing to give them some benefit of the doubt because I thought this exact same thing about Ben Chirot a year ago. And Ben Chirot proved me wrong to a certain extent. He didn't have a wildly successful season, but he was much better than I thought he would be.

and so I'm willing to give Joel Edmondson some time. I'm not, I don't think, I don't like, I didn't like the signing either, I didn't like the move. I don't think it was a smart thing to do, but because of, because I thought the exact same things about Ben Chirot, I'm willing to give Edmondson some time, but so far, let's say the results have been mixed. Yeah, Sherrod's certainly been much better than I thought he'd be. I guess you could also point to Carl Alsner though as a, as a potential thing that balances it out. So I think Carl Alsner is why people like every so many people so many people were saying that Ben Chirot is the next Carl Osner that I actually wrote a piece on even though I didn't like the signing I wrote a piece on why Ben Chirot is not the next call officer whereas Joel Edmondson to me. You know, it's not exactly like Carl Osmer. The thing about Carlisner is that they just they just failed to identify to what extent a change of system could have an impact on a player. You know like he played a man to man. his whole life. He'd never played his own system and he just wasn't able to. Like, he never was able to adapt to it. At least Edmondson played the same defensive system in St. Louis.

So they did learn in that way, but he did play man to man last year in Carolina. And, you know, he is a bigger guy, a bit slower, not the, not the fleetest, you know, he's not completely immobile, but he's not the quickest guy on Earth. He struggles with incoming speed. Yeah, he does. And that, which is why he is, his tendency to dive back door in the offensive zone so often is baffling to me i don't obviously he's being told to do that or else or he's not being told not to do that either way that needs to change like you like you you need to tell him to stop doing that or stop telling him to do that because it takes like a deficiency in his game and

and magnifies it when he's you know when he's being forced to get back uh when he's being forced to get back after being caught on on on a pinch or whatever like you see romano do the same thing And he's back because he can skate like the wind, you know, but Edmondson clearly can't. So we'll see. But I think you've properly identified the sort of the areas of their game that could become problematic. The thing that they have going for them is that those exact same areas are problematic on almost every team in the division. Yeah. So it works out that way.

Yeah, they don't need to be the best team. They just need to be the best North Division team or even the second best in the regular season and take their chances. in the playoffs. So they're well on their way there. I've really enjoyed watching them through these first six games. I'm really curious to see a larger sample, especially against better competition, which they won't get much of this season. But I want to see more games against the Leifes because that first one was really fun. The Pesos played out was incredible. And I think it's going to be, it's going to make for a heck of a matchup. I really hope, you know, the last two games of the season are in Toronto and in Montreal. And if first in the division comes down to those two games,

that'll be great. That would be great theater. Actually, the best thing would be if fourth in the division came down to those two games, but I don't think that's very likely. Yeah. So it's for drama's sake,

it would be great if the division actually came down to those two games. Yeah, just something on the line. All right, Arpin, well, this was a blast. I'm glad we got to do this. Plug some stuff. Where can people check you out?

What are you working on these days? Well, plugging away at theathletic.com, you know, slash Montreal if you want to see the Canadian stuff. But yeah, we have a lot of stuff coming out. You know, we're doing a weekly video review of a player this year. We're doing this cool weekly notebook with Mark Antoine Gooday and I are sort of gathering news throughout the week. And we sort of drop this sort of comprehensive package on where the Canadians are every Friday that we're really excited about.

The first one came out last Friday exploring their cap situations. So look out for that. But otherwise, you know, daily coverage of the Canadians at the athletic.com. Awesome. Well, this is a blast man. And hopefully we'll be able to chat soon. All right. man.

Had a lot of fun. Deocast with Dimitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud. At soundcloud.com slash hockey p.ocast.