The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 392: Behind the Scenes of the Trade Deadline

Episode Date: April 22, 2021

Chris Johnston joins the show to discuss the moves we saw made at the NHL trade deadline, the behind the scenes of how they came together, and why teams made the decisions that they ultimately did. Topics include: What the market was actually like for Taylor Hall How much the Bruins improved at the deadline Steve Yzerman accumulating assets How Mantha-for-Vrana came together The Leafs motivation for going after Foligno  Why the Oilers and Jets were relatively quiet Huge decisions ahead for the Blue Jackets Colorado's patient team building approach Teams using LTIR to their advantage Teams that will be active this offseason If you haven't yet, please go take a minute to leave a rating and review for the show. If you're busy and don't feel like writing anything, it's all good. Just hit the 5-star button. Each one counts, and helps us out. If you're feeling extra generous, you can also leave a note about why you recommend people check the show out. Thanks for the help! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Dimitri Filipovich. and joining me is my good buddy Chris Johnson. Chris, what's going on, man? Have you had a chance to unwind and decompress a little bit after the trade-ed-line? Yeah, it's been a slower last week. And it's funny how that's always just a crush that time of year with responsibilities at work. Obviously, rumors and lots going on. And then now we get to find out who the winners and losers are,

what the real impactful moves were or weren't. And it's certainly been a little quieter week. I like it. So, yeah, it's been nearly 10 days or so now since the trade line passed. And I haven't really personally had a chance to cover much on the PDOCast. I did a show with Shana Goldman and Andrew Berkshire the night of. And unfortunately, we didn't record it properly. And so no one got to hear it.

So all of our takes were not able to be uncovered to the masses. But I thought it'd be fun to have you on to kind of discuss now that we have had a bit of time since then to. And the dust has settled for us to kind of just, you know, get into the behind-the-scenes machinations of it, of conversations that were being had, why teams made the decisions they ultimately did, because I thought that was sort of the most, I mean, I guess you could say this for any year, but it felt like this year, because of all the financial considerations, because of the upcoming expansion draft, because of all these sort of external factors, it felt like there was a handful of teams that were ultimately going for it and trying to acquire legitimate pieces to help them this year.

And then because of that, because there were so few teams, they kind of could go any number of directions to the way they ultimately went, I think, was the most fascinating part beyond just the players they actually got. For sure. And, you know, the cap probably played more of a role this year than ever. I mean, we've got so many teams now having to use the long-term injury provision to just make their roster's work on a daily and nightly basis. And, you know, you saw teams like Vegas, you know, to name one, I think, and all things being equal would have liked to have been more impactful than just getting Matias Yanmark at the deadline. But they just, you know,

just they couldn't find a way to do it that made sense because of their cat picture and they were far from alone around the league. So it was it was definitely a different deadline. I think so many of us want to look at this season through a normal lens, you know, what we're used to. But, you know, a lot of what's happening is a little bit different because of the conditions we're in. And I think the deadline, you know, really fell into that. So yeah, I thought the most interesting subplot of the whole thing to me, no surprise. It was kind of the biggest name brand player involved was Taylor Hall, but I thought that, you know, just following along with the discourse online leading up to the trade deadline and the way he was talked about and just sort of how he was valued as a player,

I felt like I was so just not in sync with the way people were talking about him. Like I understood that he only had two goals at the time and pretty much everything had gone wrong in Buffalo. But the way he was being discussed about was kind of this like player. the teams almost were happy not to go and get for whatever reason. And I thought it was totally missing the boat of how productive of a player he could be. And so for me, just sort of the market for Taylor Hall and the way he was being valued was, I thought, the most interesting part of the deadline.

Well, it was shockingly low. I mean, I think that that's pretty easy for us to sit back now, kind of remove from it and say that the fact that there weren't more teams lining up to get them, that Buffalo wasn't able to, you know, harvest more assets in exchange for them and then what they ultimately got from Boston and the deal they made. You know, there's a lot of pieces to this, you know, the cap hit that was attached to him is part of it. The fact that he had a no movement clause, and I think that there were certain places he didn't

want to play, probably factored into it. It wasn't a true scenario where they could put them on the market and just sell them to the best bidder because they had to work with Taylor and his representative in making this deal. but, you know, I think people are colored by the last year. And maybe they should be, you know, I don't know. At the time, Arizona made the deal for them. There was certainly a lot more interest that New Jersey received. They paid a premium.

They got what they got out of them. For agency comes and goes, he doesn't get the kind of contract there. You expect tough here at the Sabres. And so he's kind of a declining stock in the way the market views him, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's any less effective of a player, especially put in the right circumstances. And so, you know, all that to say is I don't see how this isn't a win for Boston just because they really didn't give up a whole lot to get them. And, you know, we've already seen them score a couple goals for them since the trade.

But even if that hadn't happened, I would say that kind of the process for them. I mean, it almost seems like a no-brainer given how many assets had to be traded for lesser players that moved at this deadline. Well, I'm really curious about the reporting behind it because I feel like, you know, the opinion. varies on it. From what I gather, the no movement clause was obviously a factor, but I don't think that it necessarily actually precluded the sabers from using other teams against each other to build up the asking price just because he only wanted to go to Boston. I think the market certainly shrunk on them, but it was because, like, I think the Islanders were very interested in him, but then they went and paid a first for Kyle Palmieri and Travis Ajack, and that basically put them out of

the running, the Leafs and the abs, which are two teams that have been linked to him in the past, even when he was a free agent in Colorado's case, I don't think we're genuinely that interested in him for whatever reason. And we can save that more when we talk about the Leafs. But the Vegas was the one team that I kept circling back to as a team that made sense in terms of them, well, you know, you and I talked about in the preseason, like, they are always looking to increase their risk profile in terms of trying to go for the highest ceiling possible with their roster construction.

and they certainly needed to do something to match what Colorado's done in terms of their roster. But they obviously couldn't make it work financially. I think the cap hit you mentioned was huge there where they had to get a third team involved just to fit Matthias Yanmerk's deal on their books. And he only had 2.25 as a cap hit originally, I believe. So it felt like they were out of the running because of that. And so then you look around and Boston was really the only team left that had a need and a desire. And so I think that kind of played a bigger role in it than anything, which makes me feel like

I don't know how many teams were actually that interested in Taylor Hall. And that's why I framed it that way in the sense that I can't necessarily be mad at Buffalo for making the trade they did because I feel like the NHL as a whole just didn't value him the way I think other people do online. Yeah. And I think you've done a pretty good job there of representing what happened. I mean, my understanding is that you're right. It wasn't as though Buffalo came into this trade deadline a week out and Kevin Adams knew it was Boston or bust. They had to get the best deal for there because that's the only place Taylor wanted to play. I think, you know, the message from Taylorner's representative was you go survey the marketplace.

Let us know kind of what the options are and maybe we'll choose at the end. And, you know, I think he was inclined, given the interest. I think, to be fair, he would have loved to go to the island. If the islanders had to made the deal for Taylor Hall a few days before the deadline, instead of getting Palmieri and Zajak, you know, I think he would have happily waived his no movement clause there. I think there were players on that team that were reaching out to them that were saying they wanted them. There was definitely a potential fit there, but that door closes. And then you're right, the other sort of main buyers, if we want to call them that, are teams that were looking to really

augment their forward group and had first round picks to trade. You know, the Leafs being primary among them, just Taylor Hall wasn't at the top of their wish list. And so when they went elsewhere, you know, Buffalo was kind of left to make the best deal they could. And ultimately, it's not a great deal. but I guess holding Taylor Hall paying the full amount of his contract the rest of the season and not having a second round pick, you know, that would be a worse outcome, all things considered. So you're right. It's probably a case of this strange year too, but it's just kind of confusing or, you know, why more teams that have a chance to win wouldn't view him as an upgrade on what they have.

And, you know, especially if it was only going to take a second round pick or even a late first rounder. I mean, what's the true value of that, especially with the upcoming draft being such a crap shoot as it is. I mean, that that seems like a pretty low price to pay for, for what Taylor Hall can still be. Well, that's why I found it head scratching and why I just didn't get the way he was being valued because I wonder how many people actually watched him in Buffalo or even Arizona, right? Because it seems like, yeah, if you're expecting a former MVP and one of the leading scores in the league, yeah, you're probably not going to get that at this point. I thought

I was very telling his comments about how like he just wanted to be one of the guys and he doesn't necessarily want to be the focal point. And he obviously gets to be that in Boston. But, you know, when you look at the additions the Bruins made with him and Mike Riley, without necessarily having to give up any top picks or prospects or even roster players that they truly valued, I felt at the time that they were the team that improved the most at this deadline. And, you know, we're only five games in. You don't want to necessarily draw any huge conclusions. But they've looked pretty good. They outscore the Islanders and Capitals 13 to 4 and their three games between them. Rask is back now and playing well. And it feels like Taylor Hall

is kind of giving them exactly what I think Taylor Hall believers thought he would give, which is that secondary scoring. He's playing with Creachian Smith now, gotten that line going. And so I just thought it was a no-brainer from the Bruins perspective. So maybe it was one of those situations where there's nothing to necessarily be that mad about. I'm sure that, you know, Sabres fans would have preferred to get a first round pick. But just because of the way he was valued, I feel like for Boston, like, they came out of this looking really, really good with him.

they did and look they have such a great top line of course gotten tons of attention over the last number of years but they have struggled to kind of get some secondary offense on their team you know you just fit such a need i like the mike riley acquisition as well and he appears to have kind of slotted in nicely in their lineup too with some of the injuries they have on the blue line and the like and you know that's that's probably what a deadline should be i i suppose is you're just looking for value and small upgrades you know if you're trading for a first line center at the deadline, you're probably not good enough. You know, you probably have larger issues that need to be addressed in other ways. You know, and the thing with Taylor Hall I don't quite get is, like, what team around the league couldn't immediately put them in their top six and realize some degree of uptick in their lineup? I mean, pretty much everyone. And so I don't know if it's like I hate to use the word character concerns or the fact that

he hasn't played a lot of playoff games and that, you know, things have. seem to have gone his way. I mean, there's two ways of looking at that. I mean, I look at some of the organizations he's played for. I don't think he's been put in the best situations as a high-end player, you know, in terms of the teams built around him, the infrastructure around him, you know, you put him in on the Bruins, which is a pretty established high-end organization. He doesn't have to be the guy. You're right. He can just fit in and do what he does well, and he does it better than, you know, 90% of the league or higher that plays his position. You know, he should have been more of a commodity. But I fall on this the same way you do. I'm not criticizing this

Sabres. I don't think this was a GM overplaying his hand or misplaying his hand. I just think the marketplace was not a good place to be a seller. And for whatever reason, Taylor Halls, you know, I think he's going to, look, he's going to probably author a pretty big redemption story here. And all he has to do is just be himself and regress to the mean and be on a good team. And everyone's going to say, wow, why didn't this team and this team and this team go trade for him? The thing for me is I just feel like it's like a branding issue, right? Like I feel like if you look at the league, it's one that falls all over. This was just drooling on players that are like role players who have a bit of skill but can do all the little things.

And that's like exactly what Taylor Hall is. Like he moves the puck up the ice. He's a great puck retriever. He gets the puck into dangerous areas. He's not going to score a ton of goals. I'm not expecting a shooting percentage to regress back to above the league average, but he's also not a 2% shooter or whatever he was for the Sabers. And so you see him with Craichi and Smith right now. It's exactly what you kind of expected. And I think it was so huge for them to get a guy who could move the puck up the ice and get

into dangerous areas because the static I kept citing was that they were 31st in terms of five-on-five high-danger chance generation. And obviously it's been a much better since then. And I think it also unlocks options for them moving forward for the rest of this season as well where they can kind of dial back the usage for their top line a little bit and preserve Marshaun and Bergeron for the playoffs. They also, I think, have an interesting. option in the back pocket of just playing Hall with Pasternak at some point and sort of trying to juice the shooting percentage that way because there's almost no one better in the league than Pasternak at it and get Taylor Hall just basically being like the Zach Hyman version of

just going and retrieving the puck and creating chaos and getting it to him in scoring areas. And so, yeah, I just think it's the dialogue around Taylor Hall was bizarre. And I wanted to talk about a little bit here. But I don't know. Is there anything else on the Hall situation or the Bruins or should we move on to the next big topic? yeah there's not a whole lot i mean i i'll finish with like you though i i don't get it i think that you know people have they're missing the boat on taylor all i think you know i i don't

understand where all the hate came from there's so much on twitter i shouldn't read twitter or judge anything based on that but i i just don't understand all these hot takes that that he wasn't worth spending a draft pick on at the deadline i mean this guy could go down as one of the better deadline picks ever if boston goes on a run here yeah um all right right, the next big topic that I had was Steve Eiserman. And in classic fashion, he was very visibly involved. You know, we saw him at the start. He facilitated David Savardtrait, gets a fourth out of that.

He moved a couple of rental defensemen for mid-round picks. But then he was also lurking in the shadows. And he pulled off arguably the biggest move of the deadline in the brand of Vermantha swap. And I don't know, were you hearing stuff about it? Because I feel like just following along, I didn't even really hear a whisper of it until after the actual deadline had self passed. And it was like, wow, that was such a Steve Eisenman move kind of coming out of

left field and making the biggest trade of the day after the deadlines actually passed. Yeah, that was a stealth trade. I mean, I think that there was a notion or I know there was a notion that that Manto maybe wasn't working out great with the Red Wings, that he wasn't totally happy and they weren't totally happy with things. But, you know, that's not unusual. Look, that's a team that's done a lot of losing the last few years. It can be a tough spot for someone like him who's getting, you know, to the midpoint of his

career. You know, I didn't, I didn't translate some of those kind of conversations I've had in the last year, too, he's going to get traded at 259 Eastern time right before the deadline passes. And what, you know, amounts to a modern day blockbuster. It's maybe not a traditional blockbuster, but certainly a significant trade with more to it than just, you know, a future asset for an expiring contract. Well, I'm always curious with those trades, how that comes together. It feels like, you know, on the surface, when I saw the details of the trade, it felt like, you know, from my perspective. Both players obviously could benefit from a change of scenery. But, you know, and there's stuff involved in terms of the capitals wanted to get out from Richard Panix's contract, which they

waived earlier and had no takers. I think they certainly were dreading the idea of walking into arbitration with Yakubrana, considering the way he's been used. And I felt, I think, the kind of feelings between the organization and him. But it feels like Eiserman was able to squeeze extra value out of here with the draft picks because he had the leverage of not necessarily having to make a trade here, right? Like, it's not like, man, though, was an expiring contract or someone that they had to move right now, even if there were rumblings or they were under one with his play, he's still under contract for three more years after this one, whereas the capitals with the Vrana situation,

but also with the timeline of trying to compete for a Stanley Cup now, I think felt like more desperation to do something like that? So do you think that kind of explains it from that perspective of why maybe on the surface it feels like the capital's overpaid a little bit here for Manta, just because ultimately, Eisenman could easily walk away from this trade, not having to make anything if he felt like the price wasn't right. Exactly.

I mean, if you're in Washington shoes right now, I mean, look, Alexander Ovechkin isn't even signed beyond the season. I'm not suggesting he's walking out the door, but I mean, you have a pretty clear and present idea that every year that your team is good could be the last year you have a true chance to win.

And what they needed probably more than anything was a little bit of certainty, and they couldn't have that in the brand of situation because you're right, it was setting up for a tough contract for them to negotiate after the season. And they needed to get rid of some money. And so they could accomplish all of that in one trade

while getting a player they like in Manta, who's big and has some of those intangible assets that you're talking about teams valuing, plus, you know, can put up some offensive numbers. And all they had to do is trade away some draft picks. And the draft picks right now for a team trying to win the cup are just not that important. And, you know, I think that,

you know, Detroit did a good job of using the leverage they did have by not being compelled, not being forced in any way, shape, or form to make this move, but being interested in taking on some extra salary and ridding them of kind of a contract headache and giving them at least a player that you could argue as equivalent, you know, in exchange for taking on those, you know, for taking those draft picks kind of as the price for all that. And so I think that's what makes it a compelling trade. It's, you know, by NHL standards, that's very, basically 3D chess of a trade. I don't think it's actually all that complex,

but it's more complex, I think, than the typical NHL deal. And it does speak to where the teams are at. I mean, the capitals reasonably, you know, they weren't going to go to Ottawa or, you know,

any of the other teams that are way down that have tons of cap space and make this kind of move. I don't think. I just don't think those teams were in the market for that. Whereas Detroit was the rare team that had tons of cash space, was willing to take on salary to,

to extract some future assets. And, you know, at the same time, deal a player like Anthony Manta, who's, you know, he's had an impact. He's obviously been scoring a lot of goals since going to Washington. But I think, you know, he's someone that the capals could look at and say, wow, this guy might make us better today. And we get some more freedom vis-a-vis the cap, you know, at this point in time. And all we have to do is

get those draft picks. Sign me up. Yeah. Yeah, he's got the four goals and four games playing with Ocean Backstrom looks good. I think he's one of those players where, I mean, obviously he had better defensive impacts than ran up. But just because he's so big and kind of lanky sometimes I think it's labeled as being lazy or not moving his feet enough when it's like, he's just a bigger player and it kind of looks different than when a five, nine guy is working his ass off to cover the same ground as he is basically. So I think it's kind of a blessing and a curse for players like him. But, you know, from the Red Wings perspective here, that flexibility with the cap is something that I keep coming back to where, like, listen, they were historically bad last

year. They're really bad this season. I think it's going to be a while before they're good again. But this is exactly what I want to see a rebuilding team doing, which is acquiring a bunch of assets. So they made 11 picks in 2019, 12 last year. They've got 12 picks this year. They've already got 10 for 2022. And I think financial flexibility is huge here where they currently have three capits on their books beyond next year. Dylan Larkin's 6.1 million, which is expiring after that season. Richard Panics 2.75, they acquired here, which is also expiring.

And Justin Hidalcators buyout. And that's it. And so obviously you need good players, but at the same time, I think for them, it's going to change with RFAs and ELCs coming up. But the point is they're maintaining that flexibility where if everything goes right in a couple years, they're going to be able to nail the timeline where like those young players get paid and they're able to build around them as opposed to, let's say a team like the Canucks right now where it's like, okay, they need to pay Patterson and Hughes their two best young players. and they can't really supplement around them because of all the bad contracts they acquired along the way. And so for the Red Wings,

that's exactly what I like to see for a rebuilding team, which is if you're going to be bad, at least have a purpose behind it as opposed to just kind of middling along and having a bunch of old players taking up a bunch of gap space. Right, which is, what's such a great spot for Steve Eisen to be in?

I mean, so few GMs could ever have kind of the buy-in from their ownership or their fan base to truly go down this road, I think. There have been a couple over the years, but very few teams truly embrace where they are at the way I think the Red Wings are. And it's smart. You know, they're not that far from becoming a good team, especially if they draft well and maybe get a little bit of luck with the draft lottery and, you know, which they didn't get last year. But if they, you know, draft first or second overall in the next few years, they're probably going to add some more elite talent to the more outsiders and Lucas Raymond's and other players they already have. And at the same time, they have a really crafty GM.

and all these draft picks you're mentioning. I mean, look, those can become players for them. Those can become future assets for them to trade, you know, when they're on the upswing and starting to build towards a cup. I mean, I just think they're starting to look. It's sort of like the incremental games theory, right? They're starting to do these little micro wins along the way. And yeah, they're a long way from being at the top of the standings.

But all those wins start adding up and building momentum for your organization. And, you know, that's what I see them doing. And, you know, I'm a big believer in Steve Eisenman as a general manager. he stepped into a pretty good situation in Tampa, but he unquestionably made it better and found creative ways around the sort of the alleys he found himself in at times. And I suspect it won't be long really before we're talking

with the Red Wings being a team to watch, being a team on the climb, and potentially becoming one of the best teams in the league again. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. The small wins versus big wins. I feel like just making yourself available to capitalize on the big wins along the way is such an underrated aspect of this where, you know, you can kind of keep your

door open to pounds on opportunities like this Ranafermantha swap where you can get extra picks and maybe a higher upside younger player, whereas teams are so often like locking themselves into situations where it's like they need the best case scenario possible to come through for them to actually succeed. So yeah, I'm with you on that. And let's highlight one other thing because I think what's interesting in that David Savard deal where Detroit was the pass-through is that, yes, they take on the half retention of the half, basically 25% of his salary in flipping them to Tampa. But they also traded an HL player to Tampa, which basically offsets the actual amount of money being spent, and Tampa loan that player back to Grand Rapids.

Meaning they didn't actually, they're not even spending much more money. Like, it's a negligible amount of money. They basically just laundered this, this player through their situation, didn't change anything about their farm team, didn't end up spending any more money and added a fourth round pick. I mean, look, a fourth round pick is nothing more than a lottery pick, but that's smart business. We've heard tons of speculation about this stuff happening in the past. This is the first real deadline where it became, you know, multiple teams did stuff like this. But, you know, I think that it's smart moves like that that probably go under the radar. But the Red Wides didn't even take on more salary while doing all this.

I love it. Okay, so let's do the Leafs. Leaves are next. on my list here. I'm proud of us for saving them till third. That's restraint. Yes. So I wanted to get into kind of the motivation for them of identifying Nick Folino as their big target at the deadline and paying what I think we can agree is a premium price to get him in a first and two-fourths, obviously at 25% of his cap hit. And I guess we can lump the third that they gave up for David Riddick and the fifth for Ben Hutton as well into this and sort of the idea of them going quote unquote all in at this deadline and basically, you know, giving away all of their draft capital for this coming draft.

I don't know. What's the entry point for us in this conversation in terms of like just why they did what they did? It's kind of what the process was there because, you know, on the surface, it would seem like there were other ways they could have gone, but they clearly were pretty proactive in terms of identifying Felino as the guy they wanted to add. Well, for sure, they could have got Taylor Hall for less than probably than what they paid here, or at least if they had a similar offer to Buffalo on the table, I imagine it happens, you know,

with Taylor Hall. So at minimum, we can say they chose Nick Felino over Taylor Hall. And there are other players on the market that we could lump into that. You know, there's a lot of ways to go. I think that it marks an evolution in their thought process on team building, which has been underway, in my opinion, you know, since before this season with some of the moves they made in the off season. You know, some of it was cap related, but trading away Casperi Captain and Andreas Johnson and trying to add sort of different types of players, not just having sort of pure offensive players on their third line and sort of playing in their bottom six.

You know, obviously with Nick Folino, they've, they value some of the things that don't relate to his ability to produce offense. You know, at this stage in his career, I don't think anyone expects him to really produce much offense. frankly, it hasn't been there. But, you know, he kills penalties. He's obviously can play physically. He can be a net front guy for you. He can forecheck and do some things that they think maybe can help some of their more skilled players.

And, you know, clearly they've got him here with the playoffs in mind. I mean, he's just now joining the team out of quarantine. They've got 10 games left in the regular season. So they're really not going to get much out of them by the time he's comfortable and integrated in the lineup in the regular season. And this was all about, you know, being a better team in the playoffs. And, you know, part of me wonders, and I don't truly have an answer to it, is how much of just watching him play them last year in the bubble, you know,

put him to the top of the list. You know, again, in the context, there's only so many forwards that were available. It's something they could go trade, pick any guy around the league they wanted to acquire. They're dealing with what was available. But they certainly prioritized Nick Folino and they were fairly aggressive in going and getting them. Yeah. Well, okay, so I guess on the one hand, I think it's important to note that, you know, they didn't subtract anyone from their obstra like we were saying with the Bruins and Hall. You know, they didn't par with, I think they clearly covet a number of their prospects they already have in house and they didn't have to give up any of them.

And I feel like they valued that more over the draft picks. And I think they certainly feel like they'll be able to uncover talent at this draft and moving forward, whether it's through European free agents like they've done in the past or whether it's jumping back into the draft at some point or using later picks to kind of creatively. fine talent and I think they're right to believe they can do so given their resources and the staff they have and what they've shown us over the years. I guess the question for me is, like it's indisputable that on paper they got better, right? Because they basically just added without necessarily taking anything off of their roster. The question is, did they get, did they optimize the way they got better in terms of their approach and what they could have done, right? Because it's not necessarily the value of first versus Felino to them. It's

the value of Felino versus someone else like a Taylor Hall, they could have gotten an approach. And I think that's the most fascinating component to this for me in terms of the process, because I think you hit the nail on the head there where it's, you know, I think they, just because of the past, there is baggage involved. And I think they do want to be able to have more versatility in terms of the ways they can play based on the game state or the score. I think just because of some of the past playoff outcomes, they have an added incentive to get better at putting the clamps on teams

late in games and limiting the events and feeling safe and confident in their leads that they might have leading games. And so I think that was sort of the biggest motivational factor driving force here, right? It's adding a guy like Felino who they can play with Nielander and Tavares at the start of games if they want to as their winger, who can kind of create havoc around the net and create more space for them. But then late in games,

if they need to preserve a lead, they can potentially play Folino with, let's say, Makehaev and an Engval or something like that and have this more sort of defensively oriented bus saw line that keeps the puck in the other half of the ice. And so I think it's dangerous to overrate a player like Felino

in terms of the leadership and the toughness and stuff like that. But I think functionally on the ice, I can sort of see the logic in terms of why they identify fight him as a player that unlocks different ways for them to play depending on the opponent and the score. Right. And so I think if we're evaluating the move in the context of the moment, it's really Falino versus Palmyari versus Hall because those were the three players, essentially they could have got for a similar type of asset package. I don't think Paul Mary wanted to come to Canada and he did have a limited no trade clause. So I mean, he might not

have truly been available to them. I know they certainly had interest in him. You know, Hall, I'm comfortable saying they could have made happen if they wanted to in Felino. You know, they checked in on Connor Garland, Michael Granlin, you know, ultimately those players weren't traded.

So, you know, that was a decision that ends up being made. And so that's, it's almost, especially when we talk with the forwards or that they're kind of, their process of this deadline, that's how it has to be evaluated,

in my opinion. You know, I'm with you. They've seen Sheldon Keefe has really wanted to have a more defensive line, you know, kind of a third line. It hasn't really manifested. itself this year, partly because of injuries and things that they've dealt with. It's been kind of a

strange year, but right from the start of camp, he was trying to create a line at that time. He had Hyman McKayev and Kerfoot as his third line, and his idea was to match them up against other teams best. Again, that line never really got a lot of run, but I do wonder, it's complicated because Hyman's just gone out injured as we're reporting this, you know, recording this rather for a couple weeks. But, you know, if they ever do truly get healthy with Felino and there, maybe with a Riley Nash. I wonder if come playoff time, we see them have a very traditional kind of checking line that isn't counted on to deliver much offensively but can stifle the other team. And maybe that's, you know, where they see filino fitting. I mean, it's an interesting set of decisions. I mean,

the problem you have to be feeling right now if you're in the Leaves front officer in the coaching office, coaching office is that, you know, do they have enough in goal? I mean, all these plans and everything, you know, could be undone by their goaltending situation, which isn't, you know, it's an analytical podcast like this one, it's not not too exciting, but it's just the truth. I mean, you make these set of decisions. And if you don't get enough saves, I mean, it might all be for not anyway. Yeah, I'd say that about pretty much every team other than maybe the lightning with Vasilevsky, though, right? Like, I guess like with Vegas, you can maybe say, like, okay, well, if flurry or Lennar falters, you have the other one and you can feel relatively confident

in them. But for the most part, like, there's only so much you can do in terms of ensuring that you're going to have the goal-tending because, especially over a seven-game series, any of these guys basically can wind up looking terrible and we can wind up micro-analyzing their performance in it. So I don't, in terms of the list of issues, like, it's obviously a huge one because it's the most valuable position, but it's also the one I feel least confident in saying with certainty, whether it is a problem or whether it's actually a strength, because all of a sudden, all, Anderson can come back and they could have three guys who were playing well. And then it's like, wow, they have so many options. And, you know, it was only, what, a week or 10 days ago that we were talking about Jack Campbell

is being incapable of losing games and stopping everything. And so that's just, kind of the nature of the position. Or you could have Ben Bishop and he could go down injured, and Anton Kudobin could take you to the cup final. Exactly. Yeah. You make a good point there. I don't want to be a prisoner of the moment. Well, okay, so on that sort of wavelength, I'm not sure how much do you think of the motivation here was

obviously the unique circumstances of this season where they're in this North Division and they don't have to play a Tampa Bay or any of these other teams that they might have otherwise in the past in the earlier rounds, and they feel like they have an easier path towards the top four or in the final four. And also how much of it is that past baggage of, you know, I think we can agree that their process has been sound. They've added a ton of talent over the past four or five years. If you look at where the roster is now, compared to where it was when they inherited it,

in terms of this front office, it's significantly better. And I think there's pretty much any franchise would love to be in the position they're in in terms of the players they have, but because they have no playoff success to show for and because we are prisoners at the moment and we evaluate this stuff based on how far you make in the playoffs, there's obviously, I think, an added motivation for them to feel like they can't really afford to have another super premature high-profile playoff exit where they're out in round one and we're spending the entire off-season wondering where things went wrong. Yeah, you know, look, this year for them, I think every year is going to be, they'll view it as

critical essentially at this point because every year they got a chance to win. It doesn't mean that next year they won't have a better chance that they might. But when they were when they approached this trade deadline, what? They'd seen 40 games, give or take in the North Division. I think most people would say they were the best team in the division at that point in time. They probably still are. And you know, you have this playoff structure where, you know, they have an ability to play through the division into the third round. I mean, why wouldn't you conclude? that this was a great year to try to maximize every effort you have to have that run at it, especially knowing in the back of your mind, you're right. We still don't know for sure if the Atlantic

division will be rebuilt in time for next season. A lot of that hinges on, you know, the Canadian border issue. And if, you know, if we're in a spot where Canadian American teams can travel freely back and forth across the border come next season, I still think that there's still an outside chance that we see some version of the North Division next year just because of the COVID pandemic. But that issue aside, I think that they are living in the moment, they see an opportunity. And the crazy thing that will happen here is if they lose in the first round, there will be legitimate pressure, I think, to fire, to make changes in the front office. And I think that would be absolutely insane myself, but I can already see how it's setting up and the conversation is going. And so, yeah, if you're in Kyle Dew as a seat, I think for all kinds of reasons, you're motivated to give this group,

the best chance for success now because he can't count on his own future necessarily if things go awry and because there is clear opportunity there. And I, you know, I still think they're well positioned in the division. But, you know, because it's an unusual year, man, like you don't get these rental players for too long and you're dealing with a lot more unknowns in terms of trying to get everyone acclimated and playing for you, you know, in a short period of time. I mean, the first round of playoffs will be over in like five weeks from now. It's crazy. Yeah. It's, it's crazy to me. just the moving with the goalposts because like, not that I agree with it, but I get if you lose early in the playoffs and you're all in on skill,

I understand where you can kind of quibble with that. But then if you just look at their most recent moves where they go and they get Brody and, you know, they add Bogosian and they add Joe Thornton and they add Wayne Simmons and now they trade for McFillino. And then if they lose early, I'm just very curious, like what the argument is going to be next? They went too far in this direction. Like I don't understand. You can't win with people sometimes in terms of their experience.

expectations and I don't know. It's just crazy to me. This is even a topic, but it is a real one. I don't think we're making like something out of nothing because it's a real thing in my opinion. Well, sports, I think more mistakes are made in pro sports because of impatience than anything else. I mean, it's really boring to say, but the best thing you could do is give them like five years from today, let them try it and rejig their approach and keep going and keep going. And it just might take some luck going their way or whatever at some point, but also, you know, just because they don't get past the first round, I still don't think it's an indictment on the decision-making process that's been made inside the organization. And I know how that'll sound like the old school

kind of like hot take newspaper columnist that someone's got to be held to account and all this stuff. But I mean, let's be real here. You know, they still have a great chance to win. I mean, Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner are 23, I believe, right now. Marner might be turning 24 soon, but I mean, they're still right at that point where their best players are just entering kind of their prime statistically. And, you know, we've seen Sydney Crosby win Stanley Cups at 30 and 31 and what have you. So to me, I think it's crazy to say it has to happen right here right now. Because, yeah, it's, I think we're going to be on the same page here. I just say, it's not. It's like, it's recognized employees with custom ink, show customer appreciation with

custom ink. Outfit your teams with custom ink. Easily add your logo to your favorite products and brands at custom ink.com. Make custom ink your custom gear partner with great customer service, quality products, and all in pricing, along with personalized help when you need it and an easy to use website when you don't. All backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Do it all today at custom ink.com. It's hard to really poke holes in what they've done. Honestly, it's not to say they've built the perfect team, but given their circumstances, they've consistently found ways to make improvements. If you look at the underlying shots against, chances against this year, I mean, they clearly made stark improvements in the way that they play and how much they give up defensively.

Some of that probably is on rebuilding the blue line. Some of it maybe is on greater commitment, coaching impacts from Sheldon Keith getting a full season. I mean, they're moving in the right direction. It's just who can predict first with certainty that it's going to, you know, bear the fruit that they want in the next few weeks. Yeah. All right. Let's take a quick break here, CJ, and then we're going to finish up this conversation. All right. A team that I had here listed I wanted to talk about was the Columbus Blue Jackets, because they obviously wound up being the big seller at the deadline in terms of landing two first this year and third and the fourth next year for Nick Folino and David Sabar. And I think we'd both agree that,

you know, those are pretty good values for them, considering they're both guys in their 30s that are both on expiring contracts. And it sounds like Felino might even be back with them this offseason. And it's basically the exact opposite of where they were at two years ago, organizationally, where they gave up all of these assets to get Matt Duchayne and Ryan DeZingle. And even like, I remember that I kind of forgot, but they like gave up a fourth and the seventh or whatever for like Adam McQuaid and Keith Kincaid just because they were like, you know what? Screw it. We're just going all in on this year.

We're going to try to win a playoff series for the first time in our organization's history. and they did. And obviously in glorious fashion, sweeping, the Tampa Bay Lightning. And so I think it was, you know, obviously a success story for them. But this year, you know, when I kind of kind of think ahead in terms of,

because I wanted to ask you for offseason topics, like teams to watch or what we should be kind of trying to project ahead. And they're one of the most sort of fascinating crossroads teams for me here because they've had such a horrific season, but they also have so many, you know, big name premium assets or decisions. that they're going to have to make as an organization from their coach to Patrick Lainey as a restricted free agent to Seth Jones, who will be entering his final year of his deal and will be a

UFA after, you know, even their goalies, but they're going to have so much cap space. I don't know, like it just seems like they're going to be a team that we're going to be sort of come the offseason really focusing on because it feels like they're going to be a swing team in terms of if they get super aggressive and make a bunch of bold decisions, they're going to be involved in a lot of this stuff. Yeah, and I don't see a set of circumstances where they aren't aggressive, honestly. I mean, you know, Yarmokeklin and showed at that deadline you're referencing two years ago that he's not afraid of that.

He's been at the helm of the organization for a long time. You know, for a number of reasons this season's gone off the rails for them. I don't think they were planning on, or not planning the wrong way to put it. I don't think they would have envisioned this kind of an outcome for their season. But it all kind of blew up on their face. They made some, they got rid of some deaf players in the off season, I think, to guard themselves against a possibility of a PR, Luke Dubois offer sheet.

You know, they end up signing Dubois at a time when he's, you know, asked for a trade. They make the Dubois line deal. You know, they make the Anderson trade for Max Dolmey and that really hasn't worked out too well. You know, they've just kind of been bleeding a little bit, some talent. And, you know, at the same time, they're coming to a crossroads. with their coach John Tortorello, who, you know, it appears to me anyway that he's unlikely to be back next season, given that he's playing out his deal as well. And there seems to be

some indication he might not even want to be back that maybe it's just a time for a mutual parting of the ways. So you're right. This feels like a massive inflection point because I believe in addition to Seth Jones, Zach Wrenzke's entering the last year of his contract. So there's a decision to be made on his extension along with figuring out the Jones, along with figuring out line A and a head coach. And they have all these draft picks. And they have all these draft picks. I mean, they can go in any number of directions. And so, you know, if we count cap space as sort of freedom to do things, you know, no one other than Seattle Cracken will have more freedom to do things this offseason.

And I just think given the GM's track record and the way they've got here, that, you know, I expect them to be in the middle of a lot, be it signing free agents, making impact trades, you know, perhaps changing kind of the shape of the organization with the new head coach. I mean, it's that. And, you know, I look at Edmonton. I look at Philadelphia as other places that I think will have pretty active off seasons. It's actually going to be, I think, a pretty compelling summer for those that are into the transaction game. Which everyone is, obviously.

Yeah, no, they've got, I think, like 50-ish million or so in terms of cap commitments, not including their RFAs, of course. They've got three firsts. They've got a GM who you mentioned Yarmel being aggressive. I also feel like in terms of like the power he holds organizationally and sort of how, how long of a leash he has. Like, it's right up there with pretty much any GM in the league. I feel like in terms of him being able to do what he wants.

And yeah, there's some big decisions. I mean, it's funny you mentioned John Turtorella and how he might not be back. Like, this is the ultimate playing out the string of a season. It's like just, it's one thing to be bad. I think it's another, like, it's been such a dramatic sort of side show in terms of all the benchings and healthy scratches and everything. Like, it's so clear.

You know, I mean, it's a loss season for them, obviously, but I think people would be surprised to see, like, how much of a loss season it is because I guess the Columbus Blue Jackets just aren't getting a lot of national attention, but they have the same number of points and goal differential as the Detroit Red Wings this year. Like, no team in the league has a worst expected goal share in all situations than them. Like, they've been truly horrible. And not that they have a super talented roster and they certainly have bled a lot of talent over the past however many months. but like it's clear that they should be better than they have been. And so I think they're going to get up to a lot of stuff. So I kind of just wanted to highlight them because when we're talking about the trade deadline, like they obviously got the biggest pieces back in return in terms of future assets.

And so I wanted to highlight them. But yeah, I remember you, so you mentioned the Oilers there. You were tweeting, I feel like at the time of the deadline where I think people were disappointed that the Oilers sort of stood pad and basically only traded for Dimitri Kulakov. And I think it was you that tweeted that you're expecting them to be based on Ken Holland's sort of breadcrumbs he laid pretty active this coming off season? Yeah, because they have contracts coming off the books or decisions to be made. I don't think that the Ryan Nugent Hopkins decision is 100% made one way or another,

but he's an impending, unrestricted free agent, which had discussions on an extension with the organization, but obviously that's either $6.6.5 million walking out the door that they can spend somewhere else or they'll make a commitment to him. They have the defensemen. And, you know, they just, they have more freedom, I think, to be aggressive than they felt they had in the past. I mean, ultimately, they trade for Dmitry Kulikoff at the deadline. But I think that they see some more needs on their team.

But they just felt that they were hamstrung by their cap position that they couldn't really get at what they want to do, which is, I think, rebuilding a second line, essentially, among other things. But also getting a goaltender, you know, a younger goaltender, I think, to, to, to, to, you know, secure things will be on their wish list. But, you know, I just know that they're gearing up to have this be a big summer. And so, yeah, I mean, look, you have the keys to Connor McDavid and Leon Drysiddle. And, you know, they're absolutely torching the North Division this year, probably to no one's surprise. I think we actually might have predicted that when we did our preseason pod that this would be. Yeah, you and I, like Connors. You and I went off the board a little bit and said that Connor McDavid was going to be good this year. So you heard it here first in the

pedio cast. Yeah, we really staked our claim to that. I mean, I'm kind of cheering for him. Cheering being the wrong word, but like to see him get 100 points, I just think that would be insane in this kind of season and he's got an outside chance at it. Either way, ridiculous season. So, you know, if you've inherited him as Ken Holland has, you know, there's pressure to build a better team around them. I know people want to see more at the deadline. They didn't do a lot. I think this is, this is the big summer. This is the true test of what you have in that management group because they they do finally have the ability to do some things. And I think, as I say, I see a fair bit of player movement coming this summer league-wide.

You know, I think that's a natural extension of an expansion draft. And that's sort of the cap squeeze that's on league-wide. And so I think Edmonton will be a major player there. And as I mentioned, Philadelphia is another one. I just think after this season and given that organization and Chuck Fletcher, you know, I think that they'll be swinging big too. Yeah, I guess one last thing on the Oilers is like, on the one hand, I commend, you know, not boxing yourself into a corner in terms of taking a patient team building approach because you do have McDavid and Dreisaitle under contract for the next four seasons after this one,

Connor for another one after that, I believe. But at the same time, like with the level they're playing at, I just, I felt like there was probably a more middle ground way in terms of improving their need, improving their team at least a little bit without sacrificing the future because they're playing at such a supreme level. and you see like over the past two games, I think Dreysidal played 27 minutes in one of them. And then McDavid played 27 the other night against the haves. And so you've basically got them on the ice for half the game and they're dominating when they're out there,

whether they're playing together or separately. And so I would have liked to see them be a bit more aggressive. I similarly feel the way that way about the Jets where they're a flawed team, no doubt, but they have Connor Hallibuck playing at a supremely high level. And they have a great power play. And they have players who can score. off the rush and Connor and Eilers and Shafley. And so I would have liked to see them add something, but it did seem like

Shevoldeuf was kind of disappointed in not being able to do so. It seems like it wasn't a lack of effort. Just there wasn't necessarily anything available that moved the needle. I know Elliot's been sort of linking Jamie Alexiak to them. But yeah, other than Jordy Ben, which I guess was their big move. I would have liked to see them address that need as well. But it's always tough to evaluate this stuff without necessarily knowing like what potential offers they sort of walked away from, right?

Right. And I think they were kicking around on Josh Manson, you know, in the early days and we thought Matthias Echo might move before this deadline. I think the Jets were certainly in there. You know, I think that they were around David Savard too. They certainly scouted them pretty heavily before the trade to Tampa. So, you know, they were looking at the market. I think Winnipeg's in a really interesting spot because I'm with you.

All things being equal, you want to see that team be aggressive because, you know, they've got a pretty decent core, but could use a little bit of help. You know, I think for them, they don't part with the draft picks quite as easily just because they feel like their market brings certain challenges that, you know, obviously, I don't think we're going to ever imagine them being a big player in free agency that they feel they really have to build things from the ground up internally. And so, you know, I think in some ways that that inhibits them when they come to these sort of decisions at times, although they have traded first in the past.

We saw them get Stastney and Kevin Hayes didn't work out in the Hayes case. but they have been aggressive past deadlines that I think that they're more conservative by nature. But I'm with you. The same reason the Leafs look at the North Division and think, hey, this is a great time to take a swing. If I was in Edmonton or Winnipeg, I'd feel the same way. I mean, you know, there's not one king in this division. The Leafs have been at the top of it for most of the season, but there's flaws there too. And, you know, you're talking about trying to beat them in a best of seven at some point.

So, you know, it did feel like there was maybe a little something left on the table here. but also those GMs, I'm sure, were twists themselves and knots about quarantines and everything. And, you know, maybe rightly or wrongly. I'm not sure on that one. The, uh, another team that was kind of patient. Didn't really do much, right? They, they brought in Jonas Johansson a couple weeks ago. They brought in Devin Dubnick more recently. And then they brought in Brock back Carl Soderberg.

But I'm always fascinated with, with the abs because in terms, we're always looking at teams in terms of like the blueprint. They're laying for the rest of the league. especially when you have success, other teams are paying attention. Oh, what can we take from them? What are they doing well that we can incorporate? And they're sort of reluctance to take on future money and commitments. And understandably so, given that they're going to have to pay Macar here soon, Landiscaug as well.

McKinn is one of the most team-friendly deals in the league for a star, and he'll get an exorbitant pay raise soon as well. You know, it was last deadline. I remember they were linked to like Chris Crider. and then this deadline or in the offseason it was Taylor Hall and then this deadline it was like, oh, like could we see them be aggressive and think outside the box and add some a big name player. And it's understandable they're very content with what they have.

Their big move was bringing in Devon Taves during last offseason. And we kind of saw exactly why they're going about this team building approach, which was they had the cap space to go and get him from a team that didn't. they had the draft capital in the two seconds they could give for Taves and then sign him to an extension. And now he's a rock star on their team as a number one defenseman that might even be their third best guy. And so for teams that are looking around the league, I always look at them as like the patience of their approach, but also with a specific plan, they're not just necessarily not doing anything, but they're doing it for a reason. And I think it's admirable the way they're kind of going about their business.

Yeah, and they're actually one of the teams they now have kind of an interesting expansion decision because you know, Taves has to be protected. You know, you got Eric Johnson's got his no move. Gerard, McCarre, and Graves as well. I'm not sure it seems evident

unless there's another side trade made that they're going to lose one of those defensemen to Seattle in the expansion process one way or another. And I'm with you. You know, they maybe don't do the obvious thing or what everyone's screaming about, but it doesn't mean they're doing it wrong. And it's hard to argue their underlying numbers,

a season the way it looks like they can go for it. And I suppose, you know, the one thing people probably will ask about them is their goal tending. We won't go too deep into that, as we touched on earlier, that they're far from alone in that regard. But, you know, it's hard to argue

with the team they've built. And I think that they're smart to preserve as much freedom as they have with the contracts they have coming. I mean, that's what every smart team always has to be balancing is what you can add for today, but then what it means for tomorrow. And certainly with Landis Cog and McCar and not too far in the distance, McKinnon,

they're going to have to go out some pretty hefty contracts just to keep the core of this team together. Do you know off the top of your head how many cap dollars, cap-friendly currently has the tap and Bay Lightning at as a team? I think it was around $99 million last time. Yeah, it is. That's a lot. So good. I don't mind this.

You know, I get why everyone out there has got their flashlights out and conspiracy theory hats on. But, you know, if you have such an oppressive system as frankly this is with the hard salary cap in the league and this moment in time where the cap basically isn't going up for years in the future, most likely. I think it demands a little bit of creativity or ingenuity or whatever we want to call it. And look, all these teams are trying to win within certain parameters. I recognize it's not a true salary cap the way the lightning are doing business, but I say good on them. I know that NHL Central Registry has got all the forensics files out right now and letting everyone know that they're going to look at injury timelines and this and that.

And they're doing their job too. But, you know, I think that when you got 31 teams competing for one championship and soon to be 32, you know, you're going to have to stretch the margins to give yourself the best chance to win it. Oh, I'm always all for it. Like, if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. And I, you know, the smarter organizations are always trying to push the envelope and while they can get away whether they should. I am curious, you know, when Stamco's was kind of ruled out for an extended period of time here, you know, the conspiracy there is that they put their hats on. they were like, oh, here comes Nikita Kutjav, kind of flying into the ring like Sting, but I really, I don't know, don't you feel like, and I know you've been on this talking about how, like, the league is watching very closely. I feel like they were going to be a bit more careful in terms of the optics of when Kuturav comes back.

I would be surprised if it was right now, although, I don't know. I don't know how I feel about it because I was talking about this with someone in the league recently, but while I'm all for the cap gymnastics, there is a weird human element of like everyone is trying to obviously add to their teams with the vision of having the best roster possible come to postseason, right? And there's a weird element of like a player might be out. And then you're essentially in a way sort of rooting for them to be out for longer so that you can add someone in the meantime and then they can come back.

And as opposed to just, you know, if they're ready to go, let's bring them back. it's more so like, oh, how can we put all of these pieces together so that we can kind of have our cake and eat it too? Yeah, and it's not pleasant. I mean, I don't know how it's gone in each of these cases. And I should say, like, I don't, I think that there's a little bit less shenanigans and everyone thinks, like, everyone thinks there's like a master plan for every one of these injured players and the team knows exactly on May 12th that he'll be ready.

You know, I don't know that it's, I don't think it's all just a giant scam the way that it kind of plays out on hockey Twitter, but certainly I think that there's some cases where it's gray and, you know, certain players might be told, basically, we can't activate you before the playoffs because of this reason. And yeah, it's, it's probably not pleasant, but I don't know. You're incentivized to do so. You are. And there's lots about this business that's unpleasant, if we're going to be honest. And we're going to pick up the rock and really look under it. There's a lot of aspects of pro sport that are a little bit unsavory. And this has just comes with territory. If you win a Stanley Cup, it's, it's worth doing so. And I think even for the players,

maybe that are put in strange situations, you get your name engraved on that. You get your share of the playoff pool, bonus money. I don't know. It's probably worth it in a long run for you, too, if that's how it plays out. All right. Well, I think that's kind of all I've got in terms of big deadline topics. Was there anything else in your mind? We can, we still got a bit of time here if you want to, if there was anything else you wanted to touch on or anything you found found interesting either in the days leading up to it or the actual deadline itself. Was there anything you can kind of tell us in terms of like, you know, something you were working on or tracking on a lead and it was close, but it never wound up materializing?

Yeah, I mean, it's come out a little bit more sense, but I thought the Ryan Getslaff stuff was interesting at the deadline just because there was definitely interest in him and he had interest in going to Vegas specifically in terms of waving as no move clause and they couldn't make that happen. But, you know, Montreal asked about him trying to maybe get back, Gets Laugh and Perry on the same team, which kind of just for sentimental, crazy reasons, would have been interesting. You know, I do think it was probably a quiet deadline in the end. I don't think that there was as much that got scuttled at the two-yard line as typically happens for, you know, reasons you really touched on off the top is it just was a strange year.

Not everybody was in a position to go for it or be in the marketplace in a meaningful way. you know, I think such that we would normally see in a typical year. But, you know, we still got a few fireworks. It wasn't all waste a day. Thankfully, at Sportsnet, we were only in the air for five hours instead of nine or whatever it was supposed to be originally. I like it. All right.

Well, CJ, this was a blast, man. I'm glad we got to do this. I'm glad you survived the deadline. And, yeah, looking forward to. I think it's going to be a fun off season, as you alluded to with, you know, teams like the Oilers and the Flyers and whatnot. We didn't even really talk about the hurricanes much. But with them, they've got Svetnikov as an RFA.

They've got Dougie Hamilton as probably like the top UFA. It's going to be available. And so they're going to, you know, I think it'll depend on how the rest of the season goes for them. But I imagine they'll be pretty involved as well. And they're obviously always looking for ways they can improve their team. So I think we're going to see a lot of activity, hopefully, this offseason that'll make up for this deadline.

And I'm looking forward to it and looking forward to having you back on the show to dissect all of it. Yeah, it's going to be fun. And I think the playoffs should be good too. I'm actually oddly pumped to see the third round when when everyone plays each other for the first time in the year. And we see how that kind of plays out. But, you know, I've enjoyed the hockey all things considered this year. It's still weird without having fans in a meaningful way, challenging in a lot of ways from my job. But I'm glad they're playing.

And let's hope we get a good playoff run before Seattle craziness starts in July. All right, man. I'm looking forward to it. Take care of yourself. And we'll chat sometime soon down the road. Thanks, Dimitri. All right, that's going to be it for today's episode of the Hockey PEOCast. I know we're a bit late with the trade deadline analysis pod, but I wanted to at least sort of get to it eventually.

And I thought that it was fun to have CJ on and sort of reflect on it and discuss some of the logic behind the moves we did see. And we're going to see over the next couple weeks how those decisions play out and how those players look on their new teams. And so, yeah, there's something to look forward to there. If you enjoy the show and you want to help us out, you can do so by going and leaving a quick little rating and review. Each one is greatly appreciated. It is super easy to do. It only takes a minute of your time. And it goes a long way towards helping us out. So just go click the five stars. And if you've got time and you really want to go above and beyond, you can leave a quick little note there about what you enjoy about the show and why you recommend people check it out.

And many of you have done so already. And like I said, I greatly appreciate it. And thank you in advance to those of you that are going to do so. If you want more of my work, you can go subscribe to EP Ringside, where I'm writing once a week at least, sometimes more doing a bunch of deep dives there in written form, similar to what we do here on the podcast. So if you wanted to give it a try, you can use the promo code I Love EP, all caps. That'll give you two free months off of an annual subscription, and there's a bunch of great young writers on that. site. We are cranking out new content there daily. And yeah, if you enjoy this podcast, I imagine it will be up your alley, so you won't regret it. Anyways, that's going to be

for today's show. We're going to be back next week to close out April with another show. And then the calendar is turning to May. We are gearing up for the playoffs. I am really excited because that I feel like is when this podcast is able to shine because we can really get into the nerdy X's nose of each matchup and break it down and we're going to be doing our uh playoff previews and then and all that good stuff so really looking forward to that thanks for listening and we will be back soon the hockey pdocast with dmitri philipovic follow on twitter at dim philipovic and on soundcloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey pdocast