The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 40: When The Stars Align

Episode Date: December 22, 2015

Friend of The Podcast Mike Johnson joins the show to gush about the Dallas Stars after having just called one of their games for the first time this season. We also discuss whether the perceived 'East Coast bias' is a real thing, where Drew Doughty stacks up in the Norris discussion, and the psychology of what's going through a player's head when there's a coaching change. Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show (www.hockeypdocast.com/donate). There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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And joining me is a guest who's been on the show before. It's good to see that his first experience with us wasn't bad enough that it wouldn't stop him from coming back. It's Mike Johnson. Mike, how's it going, man? It's going well. I'm just trying to do anything I can to get friend of the podcast status. That's all I really want. Oh, you're right up there.

I know Craig Custin is the only other guy who's really been on the show twice. Him and Jamie McLennan. So you're right up there. You're definitely in the Mount Rushmore so far. Well, that's some good company to keep, so I'll take it. Excellent. All right, I knew I had to get you on as soon as I saw that you were calling the Stars Habs game this past Saturday night because I figured you'd be the best person possible

to kind of after getting an up-close view of them to talk about just how remarkable this Stars team that's been put together is. And I know that listeners to the show are probably maybe tired a little bit at this point of us just kind of talking about the Stars over and over again. but I feel like it's worth pointing out just how unique they are in the sense that I don't think there's any other team in the league right now that's just capable of going, you know, from zero to 100 just so fast in terms of you make one little mistake where you have a little lapse in judgment and all of a sudden they're gunning back the other way and the puck's probably going to wind up in the back of your net and it can snowball in a hurry there.

Like I don't know. Like how impressed were you just seeing them up close? Very impressed. I was the first time I'd seen them live this year. I've watched them play beforehand, but I think that's the most important thing when you watch them, you realize how unusual, how rare it is for teams to play that way.

And for a lot of different reasons. One, having been down on Dallas, I came to respect even more of their skill because Dallas being Dallas, the ice is not very good there. And it does not lend itself to a fat, puck-moving, skill-play kind of game. It lends itself to dump it in,

get to the net, and get a bounce kind of game. and they don't play that way at all. So you have to give their players credit to be able to make the plays that they make all game long on that ice. So first off, that was impressive. Watching it firsthand, handling it because Montreal,

who is a pretty skilled team as well, was beating the heck out of it. Just right. You know, just puck bouncing everywhere and go over the glass and you name it. And you have Dallas, you know,

not just the top end guys, but Jason Demers is throwing 80 foot off the passes on the tape and Alex Hemsky and Vern Fiddler and guys that are not necessarily just on their top two lines. So that stands out for sure. The other part is just that, that they take any loose puck, and everybody's going.

And everybody's heading up the ice, all free forwards, certainly at least one should be, sometimes two-dey, they are all moving forward very quickly and then have the skill to make plays in the neutral zone. And you need the right mix of players to play that way. obviously guys that can skate past and score off the rush and they certainly have some of the very best and we saw it against Montreal firsthand.

But maybe, almost as importantly, you need to like coach. And I don't know if Lindy Ruff gets enough credit for what he's done down there to empower those guys. And it's not easy because when you get the NHL, more often or not,

you get the skill coached out of you, not back into you. You're taught to dump it out and whatever skill you had in junior or college or growing up, you lose it because you don't play with it. And he lets his guys and demands that his guys play that way. Great little story about the way they run their video sessions.

So, of course, we do our video session on any other team I've been on. And it's like, Mike, turn over at the blue line. You try to force in the middle, don't accept, you've got to get that fucking deep. You kind of feel shame. Everyone looks at you. You start sweating. You feel awful. Right.

And if you're 20 or 30, it doesn't matter. You still feel bad getting pointed out in the, in the, in the video session or you'd be, you know, at your own blue line, you can't make that play through the theme to the underneath the fence and you have to get that over the blue line, get in the neutral zone, get the check further up the ice.

That's the plays that are highlighted every single team from every single coach I've been on. Lindy Russ video sessions, he does the opposite. He puts on the video when you shoot it away. When there's a play to be made and you dump it in blindly because that's the safe play,

he puts that on the tape and say, no, you've got to do better. You've got to make a play. You've got to get your head up, find someone in play. And that I've never even heard of anywhere else. So yeah, they're a really fun team to watch. Now, of course, the worry

always is, can they play that way come playoff time? When things get tighter, more physical, maybe not the same kind of standard of penalties so the game slows down a little bit, will they have success? Because they're a high event team. I mean, they get a lot, they give up a lot. I mean, they get as many great scoring chances than anyone in the league,

but they also give up almost the highest amount of the high quality scoring chances. So it's a riskier way to play, but so far, so good. And it is so refreshing to watch. First hand, fast, skilled, I loved it. Yeah, so, I mean, that's kind of the point in that I don't think we're breaking any new ground here by saying that the Dow Stars are good. I mean, you can just look at their place in the standings and their goal differential and what they're doing to see that they're, kind of lighting the world on fire. But the more interesting questions are, I guess, A, like, how good are they compared to the other teams in the West? And B, I know that people are still

kind of skeptical to fully come around on them as contenders because that sort of style that you just mentioned doesn't necessarily lend itself to postseason success, or at least the way people think about teams that are successful in the postseason. And we've sort of seen that a bit this year where they definitely limited it compared to the last season, for example, but you still have those odd occasions where they do some very Dallas Stars thing in the sense where they're up three nothing and then all of a sudden you kind of talk to Calgary yeah you look away for a second and then you look you look back at the scoreboard and it's like three three or they're down four three and you're like what the hell happened there and and they still have a little bit of those tendencies but i guess

it's just a matter of kind of limiting the exposure to that and and and all teams are obviously susceptible at every once in a while but i don't know like when you look at them do you think that this is a team based on how deep they are and how well coached they are that they could make a long post season run or do you think it's one of those things where they're just taking advantage of teams in this 82 game regular season but when things kind of tighten up and teams have a more a longer opportunity to kind of game plan for them and dissect them that they're going to be exposed a little bit that's a really good question okay one i hope they have a long playoff run because you want that style to succeed right coffee cat cat league you want teams that play fast and creatively to do well

the issues I would have one I think the goaltending while better this year goals against their way down Niami has gotten in there I don't know if if they get into a series

if you trust their goaltenders enough to be a difference maker because oftentimes in playoff series that's the case so I think that is part of the concern about whether or not they have that long run in the playoff available to them and and probably the other part is

in a physical series that you can game plan and you're well-rested for every game and you're not going to get caught on back-to-backs and decision-making should be cleaner.

Can their second defensive pair and third defensive pair if you're going to have you know Johnny O'Duia and Jason DeMeres are your second pair and your third pair

is going to be Jordy Ben and Nemith or Yokoaka or whoever it's going to be you know if they're up against a St. Louis or Chicago and a Minnesota

of those central division teams are going to have to play likely in the first round and the second round, that's going to be tough. And so for all those reasons, you wonder, you know, you believe because the numbers are the numbers. They are where they deserve to be because that's where they play. But if they play Chicago in the first round, I don't know if I'd pick Dallas to win. Yeah. And if they played even Minnie or St. Louis, I don't know if I'd pick Dallas to win, despite how well those teams are playing.

So it's, they're in tough. You know, they don't probably get the respect or the trust that a team in their position in the standings that have done what they've done to this point would otherwise get because of the way they play and maybe some of their personnel. But they're going to be right there, especially if they get home ice because they're good on homeite. Yeah. No, and then did they. The one thing to consider, too, is it's a long season, right?

Guys get tires, guys, energy rains. And I had only one year. in my career in Toronto early in 99. We played for Pac- Quinn. We had Cujo. We played a style very much like Dallas was playing now. We kind of would trade chances, trust our goaltenders and our scores more than the other team would trust there.

And we had a great year. Went all the way to the conference finals. But there's no better way to find energy in the dog days than when you're allowed to play. Right. You know, if you're going out there and I've got to grind and hit and block shots and structure, structure, structure, that's tiring. And that's hard.

And when you're tired, maybe that falls off. So I think sustainable for the whole year, they may not score because that kind of adds and flows. But as far as energy, it's a great style to play because everyone's invested because I don't care if you're on the fourth line or your title to say again, everybody loves being involved in goals. And they get the opportunity to do that in Dallas. Yeah. Well, I'm definitely hoping that I think, you know, all hockey fans, regardless of their rooting interests, should be hoping that this is a sustainable thing that leads to at least some postseason success just because it is. is a hockey copycat league as you mentioned and anything that encourages kind of creativity and a little bit of freelancing and giving the most skilled players in the world an opportunity to kind

of try new things out and have fun with it is is definitely an advantage and I think that too often we see kind of restraints put on guys because of this idea that you can only win in the playoffs or the defensive brand of hockey and that's that's the detriment of the product in general. So I'm totally with you on that. Let's move on a little bit to a different topic because I think that you're an Eastern-based media guy and I think that you can kind of speak to this concept and it's the whole Drew Dowdy thing where he recently went on a tour with his team out east and there was a lot of stories. It was a very kind of convenient time to bring up the fact that he's never really won a Norris before and this idea that players playing out West might be

sort of slighted either attention-wise or just recognition-wise by the media in general because of the fact that they play late and maybe guys don't see them as often as they would, guys in other time zones. And I don't know, like, do you think there's any real merit to that? Because for me, like, right off the surface, right off the bat, it just kind of strikes me as a little lazy in the sense. Like, I feel like everyone knows who Drew Dowdy is. I mean, he's a machine. This guy's played deep into the playoffs. He's won Stanley Cups. He's, he's, he shined at the Olympics. Like, who, who are these guys regardless? of the time zone they're in that don't know

that Drew Doughty's like one of the best players in the world. I feel like that's a little silly. That is, but, okay, first, that's kind of two different questions. One, does the East Coast bias or something like that exist in the media? Absolutely it does. Right.

The biggest markets are in the East, the time zone, the exposure, the television, all that in both countries is in East. You've turned on NBC and it's Philly, it's New York, it's Pitt, it's Chicago. used to be Detroit. Those are the teams that play, Boston.

And no teams in the West play in that. And in Canada, you know, the early games in hockey league in Canada. So absolutely that exists. Now, does that exist from Drew Dowdy to the educated fan or media member? I would, it can't. Because

he's too good. You appreciate that. And if you follow hockey at all, you know everything that he can do. So it's almost funny how it's always comes up when guys kind of roll through the old Montreal, New York, Toronto set

and all, you know, and the media picks up on it and starts to run. And what I love about Drew Dowdy, though, he owns it. He's like, yeah, I want to win a Norris. He absolutely doesn't shy away from it, said, well, you know, it's about team success, and I've got Olympic gold, and I got, he's like, no, I want to win it.

I want that award. So, I love that he doesn't shy away from suggesting that it matters to him, which is terrific. But I don't know if, I don't know if, I don't know the Norris is given for the best regular season defender. Got nothing to the playoffs, got nothing to with international. Right.

Areas where he has been the best, unquestionably. And I don't know if the way the Kings play in the way, and now I know he logs a ton of minutes, and I know he does, he plays hard a minute, he's physical, all the stuff. I mean, he's absolutely right there with the other top defenders. But I don't know if he has to deserve slam dunk on Norris just yet.

Yeah. Given his regular season, performance and the fact that the Norse trophy has become a very offensively slanted award. So, you know, if Eric Carlson is going to put up 85 points and play 30 minutes, you know, and Drew Doughty has a great year. And the Kings won the division and puts up 50 points. Yeah. I don't think he's going to win.

Right. And I don't know even if he deserves to win. I'm not sure if the award is, maybe there needs to be a defensive defensive award or an all-round. I don't know what it is. Maybe there needs to be an offensive event with an award plus an arm. I don't know. but the way that the award is kind of determined now with the offensive focus, then he probably doesn't win.

Right. I think it's, you know, it's worth pointing out that just because he, I mean, to say that he's not worthy of the Norris doesn't meet, it's not like slandering Drew Dowdy's a player, right? Like we're pretty... I'm okay with saying that he's in the top three, four, five, six players at his position in the world. That's not a slight.

Right. I mean, that's a compliment. He is in an absolutely the very big. very elitist and selective company, he's right there with him. I just don't know if he's had a year yet where he deserves to win. Right. Yeah, that's one of those things where you look at guys like Keith and Suban and Carlson and the list goes on and on. I mean, this really is the golden age for a defenseman where you just have these guys who are just such slick puck movers and skaters and they do everything well. And it's not a slight to say that one player might not be

the best player in the world as his position. And he's like the fourth or fifth guy. I feel like there's a middle ground there, right? It's not, oh, he's not the best. So he sucks, and I feel like sometimes things are interpreted that way, and that's kind of annoying. But I guess the bigger question then is, so based on the awards, like, do you have, you don't have a vote, do you? Not yet. No, I don't. No, they're probably smart. Keep it out of my hands, yeah, exactly.

I would not vote for Ovechkin on both left and right wing. That's what I would not do. Yeah. Oh, well, then, yeah, clearly you don't deserve one. Which had happened. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, so should we, as fans of the sport and people covering, like, should we really care about these individual awards? Because I'm two minds of it. Like, in one sense, I feel like it really

could be sort of like a good snapshot of what happened in that particular season, right? Like, you look back five, six years down the road and you look back at the 2015-16 season and you go, okay, that was the best defenseman and that was the guy who scored the most goals. This was the best defensive forward. Like, this was the best goalie. It can kind of paint a really good picture and and kind of preserve things in terms of history. But at the same time, like, when I look at it, I feel like only the players themselves really should get too worked up about it. And especially because, I mean, obviously it's a nice honor, but I feel like some of these guys are incentivized in their contracts. Like if they finish in a certain place in the voting, they make

more money and it makes sense that they would care about it. But like, I don't know, I feel like fans sometimes just get way too worked up about this stuff, which is ultimately just very subjective. it is but that's why fan what's the root word of a fan right at it right so i mean they're not always there and that's why we love them and that's why they matter to the game because they're not always there to think rationally and detach say you know what it doesn't really matter it does it really matter for a couple of different reasons one it absolutely matters for players whether you're drew dowdy or john the taves or they want to win those awards it's a really nice recognition uh of the of the year

and it puts you in the history books and for those kinds of the players, of which I was certainly never even close to being one of, you know, it ticks the box. It's Olympic gold. It's Stanley Cup. It's consmite. It's Norris. It's Hart. It's Hart Ross.

It's Rocket. These are things that they would like to try to achieve in their careers, both individually and as a team. So I think it matters to the players. So if it matters to the players, then it probably should and does matter to the fans. But back to the previous point, like if any subjective award, like the sales. or the Lady Bing or the Norris or even the heart. If your guy comes forth, is that a second or first?

I don't think that's a monstrous flight. It's just there's a lot of good players, and it's hard to determine a winner every year, unless it was Kerry Price last year. So, yeah, it does matter to the guys, and so for that reason, I think it probably should and does matter the fans. Yeah, okay, I'm with you on that thing. It's a reasonable take.

let's get your opinion on some kind of inside hockey former player stuff because the psychology of certain things like that fascinates me because I I spend a lot of time, you know, evaluating players and teams and thinking about the game critically, but I don't have this sort of backbone or I guess structural information of what goes on in the room that kind of makes players tick. And the whole coaching situation is fascinating to me just because, I mean, In Pittsburgh, we just recently saw a coach get axed for running a team that was underperforming their vast expectations. And we saw that happening in Columbus earlier this year.

And there's been other situations where, like in Anaheim, for example, with Bruce Boudreau, he's been, people have been calling for his job for months now. And in New York, if the Rangers' struggles continue, I'm sure that Elaine Vigno is going to get on a hotter and hotter hot seat. And I guess from a player's perspective, like, is there any merit to the idea that, making a coaching change will actually, like, fundamentally change things because obviously from the outside, like there's certain cases where a coach might not be doing a good job. He might not be putting his players in positions to succeed or running a system, which is flawed. But in most of

these cases, I feel like it's all this sort of like intangible motivation, so show people how serious things are now these days, things. And I'm wondering whether it can really actually change anything or if it's all just, it would have happened anyways and it's just a matter of time. Yeah, there's not an easy answer to say yes, that's the case or no, it's not. I mean, every situation is specific. There are absolutely cases where the coaches probably are not implementing the right system or using their guys the right way to maximize the success. And I think maybe Pittsburgh might have been one of those situations where Mike Johnson

didn't get his guys playing the right way and understanding what they needed and them understanding what Mike Johnson wanted. So there's a disconnect there. But that's rare. Guys are NHL coaches because they know what they're doing. They're smart enough to get that position because they can look at the team, they can look at the league and try to devise a game plan that they perceive to be the most effective and give their team the best chance of winning.

And generally speaking, they're going to be pretty accurate because that's why they're coaches in the NHL. They don't put people in those jobs that don't know what they're doing. So it then becomes the motivation, the personality, the interpersonal dynamics amongst the group. And that's where changing coaches can really change a team. It's not that the new coach, whether it's Mike Sullivan or if someone came in for L.A. Migno or Bruce L.UGro is going to completely revamp the style that they play, and there's going to be some, you know, earth-shattering.

Oh, my God, I've never seen we can play that way. There's nothing like that that exists. And there just isn't. So it's going to be how does the new person deal with the stars and the team and how does the team respond to them? And also, for guys that are not on long-term contracts, there is an absolutely snap to attention moment that happens when you get a new coach. And it's a new voice and you listen to it more closely because it is human nature

to occasionally tune out one you heard for several years and maybe that's happening in Anaheim because Bruce Lugel has been there a while. So there is that element for sure where it's, It does, any kind of comfort zone you may be feeling that may lead to your not being quite as focused or as engaged as you might be. That goes away, whether coach firing or big trade. They have a similar kind of fact. They upset the dynamic in the room, and that can be a good thing because it gets guys to focus and pay attention. And in many ways, that's why coaches do get fired because GMs recognize that.

They want to get guys attention and they don't want to, they can't or don't want to make a whole bunch of trade. So they fire the coach and hope that that works. Right. So, okay, on a similar vein then kind of in terms of the whole psyche thing, like, let's say you're a player on the lightning right now. I don't know, like, let's go with Alex Kaloren, for example. What's going on in your head, like, with this whole Stamco's media circus and all of this impending uncertainty as to whether he's even going to finish the year with the team or whether things are going to look fundamentally different? And, like, I don't know, like, it seems very convenient and sort of post hoc in the sense that, like, if, if the lightning season was going better in terms of health and production-wise, then people would be writing these stories about how, you know, Stamco's motivated in a contract year and how he's putting the team on his back, right? Whatever now to fix the results, yeah, absolutely.

It's never a, it's never a thing before the season where it's like, oh, I don't know, I'm kind of worried about Stephen Stamco's in the lightning because of all this uncertainty. everyone was pegging them as a favorite in the east and you know they could very well make it back to the cup finals and actually win it this year and it hasn't really played out that way and obviously there's a lot of season left but i don't know like is there anything to the idea that like it just guys are i don't know if they're playing differently maybe because they don't know what what their own future is going to look like in a couple months because the ways this whole stamp goes thing plays out could directly impact them them as well yeah Generally speaking, guys don't get too worked up about the contract status of their teammates. Everyone's aware whether you're Stephen Samcoeck and it's a monstrous deal or you're whoever, you know, Ryan Callahan or Victor Headman, you know, he's up in a couple years. Like everyone's aware of what's going on and who needs what. And especially now with the salary cap, I understand there's only so much pie to go around and so every little bit that Sancoast takes, that might be less for Alex Collin in your example.

And that's how guys may be related to themselves, but I don't think, and I don't find that any situation is that pressing that it would affect the way other guys play. It may affect Steven Stanco's, absolutely. I mean, everybody's human, and he's got a monstrous decision ahead of himself. You know, an $80, $90 million decision, and that's a lot for anyone to carry. So, yeah, it would affect him, but as far as anyone else on the team, I doubt it.

I really do. I don't think they're too worked up about it. And I believe John Cooper, like they're not out there on the power play and working on something and then it's going to be Colorn. Hey, Stammer, what's going on with your contract guys? That's not what it's like.

Guys just go out and play and understand that he'll do what he has to do. And guys will respect that. And if he doesn't want to resign, then guys won't even hold it against them. I'm like, guys get it. Guys aren't, I understand it's a business and don't get phased.

So I don't think it's a really big distraction for the Tampa Bay lightning players other than Steve Stamco's because, you know, and I wouldn't know you'd have to talk to him and get really an honest answer, but he has not played as well this year as we're used to seeing him. The results are not there, and maybe it is affecting him in some capacity. Maybe it is on his mind. I don't know, but the results are different than in years past, so that's something to at

least raise the question. But for the other guys, it doesn't matter. I mean, it really doesn't. I mean, it's amazing what happens when you walk on to the ice, into the room, the fishbowl, and everything else goes away. And whether it's a contract thing, like Stammer, or whether what happened in Chicago with Patrick Kane, I mean, it's just, you guys have a way once you're on the ice,

you're just on the ice and you're playing, and you kind of forget everything else that's going on in your life, in the real world, in your family. And I think that's what's great about being a player, because you can kind of go there and escape. But I think that's what's going on tap. I don't think it bummed anyone, except maybe Steve,

John Cooper, and Steve Eisenman. Right. All right. Okay, one final thing, and then we'll let you go. Last time we had you on,

I asked you which team you'd seen up close. We had been either underwhelming or, I guess, it was surprisingly effective. And we talked about the Red Wings who were having a bumpy transition from Babcock to Blasheel, and since then,

obviously, they've kind of turned it around. Dattoo coming back helps a lot. And they're getting back. back to that kind of puck possession brand of hockey. Which team would you answer that question with now? And you can't say the Dallas stars because we already spent 10 minutes talking about them. That would impress me.

Yeah. Or negatively, you've been surprised by how ineffective they were. Underwhelming now, obviously, this day, but I did about three Penguins games in the span of two weeks. Shocking. Shocking to watch that team up close. It really is. and you watch him close enough

and you realize that there are some issues going on there with the way that they play with Sid and the way that he is not being able to assert himself into the game like he once did, it's perplexing. And if you trust that everyone's healthy, which they may or may not be, I know he's injured as of today,

but if you trust everyone's healthy, then it's tough to understand that, you know, why it's not working. Because I don't care about the system that Mike Johnson was putting in there. Cindy Krazi was always good enough. Doesn't matter what system was going on. He would be able to assert his will and take over the game and get the puck and make things happen. They may not win, but he was going to make things happen with the puck.

And he just is not. He's just not. And it's very, not just him. Phil Kessel's there. And the whole dynamic on the bench, all of it is very underwhelming. is a good word to put it. I'm not surprised there was a coaching change, so we'll see what Mike Sullivan could do there,

which is an interesting hire for an offensive group, because Mike's all been as a player and as a coach is about as defensive-minded as you can get. Right. He's a torterly guy. I mean, I played with Sally. I mean, I played with him at the end of my career. I played with a row 10 games.

I'm like, we never got over the red line. I'm like, come on, Mike. It's not ring yet. We're allowed to cross the blue line. Let's go forward. He's like, no, no, let's just not get scored on. So that's where he comes from. I'm like, no, we're allowed to score too.

So they were underwhelming for sure. And you know who's been overwhelming and really good as of late? I know they don't get results, but I'm just going to throw it up. The dry saddle, Taylor Hall line. Yeah. I mean, really.

You know, I think Taylor Hall has critics sometimes with the way he plays, or there's kind of a noise around him and, you know, can they win with him? him, like, to me, he has been as good as just about anybody in the league this year. He has been amazing, just driving the offense, playing hard, plays a ton of tough minutes, and it's been amazing with it.

And then that Leon Dwight doesn't come up. And I guess if you're 30 games in and you've got 30 points, we can't keep looking at it. Maybe it's a flash of the pan thing. Right. And then I just, he has developed as quickly as he has to be as good as he is, has been really impressive. And I didn't see this. when I saw him play last year in the NHL and I talked to him,

I didn't think he could skate well enough to be this kind of player and to play with guys with the pace of Taylor Hall and to keep up with him and thrive. So I think those guys have been so impressive what they've done the last four or six weeks. And if they ever get McDavid back, and if they can get McDavid back and get Yakupov playing again because he only can apparently play with McDavid.

and Pooleyotte. And then you have that line going, you have Taylor Holland and Dry Seidel, and then you have Nugent Hopkins on Eberley. Then you have three legit. Pretty good lines. Right. Now, I know they can't stop the puck at times, and they don't defend very well, but still,

in that Pacific Division, which is going to be so fun to watch all these 500 teams down the stretch to see who gets in the playoffs, maybe there's something there. but I just think that the growth of dry settle and maybe the once again reaffirming how good Taylor Hall is has been really impressive to watch the last few weeks. I think it's the parallel you kind of draw there is fascinating between, I mean, you're just talking about how Crosby sort of doesn't look like himself in the sense that he can't, he hasn't really been kind of asserting his will in the game like he used to in past years. And then Taylor Hall, on the other hand, has been. And similar things plagued those guys in the sense.

that they don't really have very many defensemen that can kind of get them the puck and put them in positions to succeed. But a guy like, a guy like Hall is just like so physically overwhelming and dominant at this point of his career that it just like hasn't really mattered. I mean, you watch him kind of retrieve the puck in his own zone, deep in the zone. And he just has like a one man foray into the offensive zone by himself.

And it's a one man offense. And Crosby, I don't know what it is, if it's injuries or like age related stuff or whatnot or maybe he's just slowing down a little bit, but it just hasn't looked like it used to in past years, and I wonder if, if Peek, Sidney Crosby would have been able to overcome this defense situation like Hall has been this year, I guess. Well, it's a great parallel you draw there, because it's not like, you know, Taylor's has great defenders around him in Edmonton that are turning fucks over and launching, sending him off with great outlet passes.

That's not the case. Right. So, yeah, you're right. I mean, he's done it with, you know, a week. defensive team there. So he's doing it on his own. And I never played against Mark Messy. I played against Mark Messier, but never when Mark Messier was Mark Messier.

But I've heard that kind of parallel drawn and that just kind of that physically imposing just bull that rolled along the ice and is just so fast and so physical and so strong, he's top to contain. And that's kind of where Taylor Hall is right now. And it's, and he's been really good. And on the flip side, it's Sid is not. He's not been that guy. And I don't think there's any question that he's getting slower. Or the game is getting faster. Right.

Or both. Yeah, both. Really, it's probably both. And I think there's no question that players' best years are not late 20s, like maybe we thought they were. Yeah. It's kind of more early 20s. Kind of, you know, 22 to 25 is probably players' best players.

less years and not, you know, 27 to 30. So, you know, I think there's probably that factoring into it. But maybe there's more, I don't know, the drop-off has been so precipitous for, for Sidd. Maybe there's something else there. But watching on the ice, you know, it's tough to identify, other than just showing why he's, you know, he doesn't, he doesn't push guys back with his speed anymore.

Right. When he attacked the blue line, he used to just terrorize guys of the speed. They'd give up the blue line, he'd stop, he'd create about a 20-foot gap because he'd stop quicker than most, and then do whatever he wanted with it. Now, he'd force the blue line, and the defense gave better, and they don't fear his speed, or his linemates maybe, and they hold the blue line. And they don't give him any space, and he's playing into the wings, and it's just a weird thing to watch. It's not what we've seen at him for a decade, so hopefully for him and for Penguins fans,

and really maybe for hockey that he can kind of find his way here in the second half. But, yeah, he hasn't been very good, or the Penguins, but Taylor Hall and Drys Title, it's, you know what, he's really good, he's really good. And you wonder if a guy like Taylor Hall

with all the hype that Connor McDavid gets and has received, as deserves, if he all, like somehow in the recess of his mind, like, hang on, I was also first overall.

Right. I'm also pretty, like, some sort of tweak, like I want to show that I'm not maybe as good as McDavid or whatever, but I'm also, I'm pretty good as well.

Yeah. You know, because guys will, latch on to anything to motivate themselves. Anything. The smallest nothing of slights. They'll, they'll, yeah, I got to prove him wrong. You're not proving anything.

You just, but maybe for Taylor, you want to say, you know what, I'm pretty good too, and I can get it done and help lead this team. And he has so far. So he's been really good. Hey, Mike, what game are you doing this coming Saturday? Are you doing the Cocks game or are you doing the Caps game? No, this Saturday, I'm actually, well, the Saturday is 26, so I will be spending Christmas with my family.

Oh, excellent. And then I am going to be doing the Sunday night game 27th, Toronto into Brooklyn, where I've never been. And I'm fascinated, well, one, to see that arena and all of the duances and the Lexus in the corner, I feel like I'm doing the World Championships again, it should be a Skoda, parked over there. But also to see the Islanders, because they're a team that has been pretty good this year, and they want to make some noise and try to get some traction in Brooklyn.

but they also have the Hammondick situation swirling around and they also have Kyle of Pozo pending UFA, two really important players that maybe will be dealt with it's a really interesting to see what the vibe is around that team with all that they're going through but also a pretty good team that maybe thinks that they can make something happen to the playoffs.

So I'm into there for Toronto Islanders on Sunday. Oh, excellent. Cool. That should be a good game. All right, Mike. Thanks for taking the time and hopefully as the year gets going, we'll be able to get you back on and discuss whatever, whatever's happening in the hockey world at that point. Sounds good. We'll do it again. Cool, man. Happy holidays. Yeah, to you as well. The Hockey PDOCast, online at HockeyPedocast.com. Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter at Dim Filippovich and at Travis Yost.