The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 405: Mock Draft 2021

Episode Date: July 15, 2021

Cam Robinson and Chris Peters join the show to help preview the upcoming entry draft. Topics include: Mock draft of the top 15 picks What we think should happen vs. what we think will happen Realistic player comparisons for the top prospects Favourite talents that should be available later Risky picks that teams should stay away from The challenges of evaluating players this year Scouting using video versus in-person viewings What people mean when they say this class is weak What we're looking for when watching game tape How what we prioritize has evolved over time If you're looking for even more in-depth analysis of this year's draft class in preparation for it, the Elite Prospects Draft Guide is just the thing for you. It includes detailed scouting reports, projections, and breakdowns of every prospect that you need to know about. You can use the promo code DRAFTGUIDE, which gets your three free months on an annual subscription when you sign up. With it, you'll not only get the guide, but you'll get access to all of the great written content available at Elite Prospects Rinkside, which includes the musings of yours truly. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

On a beautiful run through the park, on a pleasant day, you can easily get lost. No, no, no. She didn't kill him. Huh? In your true crime podcast. It was the pool guy. So obvious. Whatever motivates you works for us. It's all about letting your run be your run. And Brooks is here for every runner.

Doing the research and sweating the details to create gear that works for you. It's your run. Brooks, run happy. Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dimitri Phil. Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Demetri Philipovich and joining me is my good buddy, Chris Peters. Chris, what's going on, man?

Hey, Dimitri. Not much. It's nothing going on right now, really, in my world. No, it's a very dead time of year for you as a prospect analyst. And also joining us is our other good pal, Cam Robinson, Cam. What's going on? Yeah, not too much. just gearing up for a couple of big weeks here. Chris is just slacking hard, I guess. I ain't

nothing to do. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, I don't care about the draft. So we're bringing the dream team back together by popular demand. We did a mock draft for the 2020 class, which seems like another lifetime ago now. I look back at the date. It was like the first week of May, which was kind of like the start of the pandemic and we didn't know when the draft was going to happen. We were talking about like we started out the show by discussing what we thought about an early Jude draft or something in case the league decided to go that route. So it's definitely another lifetime ago. But we also went two hours and 15 minutes on that show somehow, which I don't even remember because I had so much fun with you guys. It felt like it just flew by. But we're going to try to be more efficient

with our time this go around, but still sort of hit all the main topics and kind of do what we did last time because it was so fun. So before we jump into the actual selections, we're going to mock the lottery or the top 15 picks and we're going to kind of do a snake draft and go from there. I want to set it up with a brief discussion in terms of what we're looking for in our evaluations, the talent available in this class, the unique nature of this year's process in terms of how you're going about when the player is making sure you're getting all the viewings in, what you're prioritizing over the other in terms of league results. And you know, you see Brand Clark putting up numbers in the Slovakian League and what the

context is for that. So I'll open the floor for either of you here. You can take that in any direction you want. I'm just kind of curious in terms of where you're at with this year's class and sort of everything that's gone into leading up to this moment. Yeah, I'll jump in first. Yeah, this has been a fun year for sure. So not only has it been, you know, a pandemic season where the OHL was postponed, postpone, postponed, postponed, and finally canceled. And league started and stopped and started and stopped and kids are bouncing all over the place around the globe trying to get ice. But it's also kind of a unique class in the sense that it doesn't have that top dog or top two or three. It doesn't have a ton of depth.

You're going to have to go mine for talent. And so for us as, you know, independent scouts and for teams as well, it's that they're going to have to be, you know, working hard to try to find these gems more so than normal. So for me, it's, you know, get as many views as you can. For some of these players relying on draft minus one views is unique for me. I usually just have a few tertiary notes on these kids from their draft minus one as I'm watching the draft eligible guys. And then I can look back and be like, oh, look, you added some strength or whatever. This year, I'm like, okay, I guess I got to go back and watch tape from early 2019 and see what's cooking. So definitely a unique year. Definitely maybe not the year to hang your hat on people

in a definitive manner is because there's going to be so much fluctuation. We're going to see some development paths, be extra serpentine probably and guys coming out of this. And I've said this before. I keep saying it out loud and hoping that it'll actually sink in for me is that I want to give some of these kids a bit of a break too, especially the ones that are moving overseas at 17 and trying to find their way that way is that, you know, we should probably be giving a little more grace. I'm not sure if my personal list has reflected that, even though I want it to. But, but yeah, it's just a, just a funny year all around, hey, Chris. Yeah, it is. And I, you know, I'm really excited for the draft to happen so that I can move on.

You know, just you watch so much video on these guys. What is that? Chris, what is that? What is that attitude? I know. I know. I got to bring up the level. No, I'm just kidding. I really, I mean, you know, you spend so much time on it.

And, you know, we're all looking at the same video clips. We're all looking at the same things over and over again. And, you know, trying to do everything we can. And, you know, the same themes keep popping up. And it's just like, you know, I don't. there are a lot of guys where I think it's really difficult to read on. I think this is a year where you're looking for players that there are a lot of flawed players, guys that have one,

not necessarily a fatal flaw, but one significant enough flaw where it's like, man, I don't recall seeing this many and is it, you know, in previous draft years. I don't think, you know,

it's so interesting to me to, to hear from, from scouts who, you know, they're not, most of them really aren't concerned. Like, it's not,

it's not an amazing. year, but it's just kind of like they've been through enough drafts where they've seen it, where it has, there have been leaner years, years that didn't look as good. And a lot of them, you know, didn't see guys live this year, which for a lot of scouts was, was really challenging and frustrating. And some of them didn't necessarily know how to evaluate off a video, which is kind of interesting to think because most of us that have to do it on the public sphere do often have to rely on a lot of video because we don't have the travel budget or the ways to get to the the rinks as much. And I'll say after watching more video this year, I've, I mean, I missed the live

viewings a lot. And, and I've always done video. I mean, I've always had video as part of my whole thing. And this year, just trying to, you know, I did get some live views and I was lucky enough to be at the under 18 worlds and a few USHL games and college hockey games and things like that. But there wasn't, you know, you weren't getting the full compliment of the class. And so I, I, I just feel like some of the the weaknesses that we see in these players, I think show up a bit more on video than necessarily when they want to do live. I think it's a lot more difficult to evaluate skating off of video. You know, there are other things that just aren't as easy to do. And as, as Cam noted, and as you said, you know, these guys are going, we don't have a lot of context for what

certain things mean. Like how much does production in the Swedish third division really mean in the grand scheme of things? How much, you know, what would that have looked like if the player had played in his regular league in the OHL or if he was in the WHL or anything else like that. So the good news is that there was a significant enough season like in USHL where I think there's actually a good amount of prospects that, you know, you can, I'm sure increase their value. But I mean, overall, I think that there's a lot of things that, you know, as you look through this class, you kind of get a little frustrated with some of the things. But at the same time, there's value to be had. And I think the teams that have really done their homework.

and certainly those of us that are trying our best to mimic what they do, you know, there's certainly going to be some players there that really jump out that maybe even, you know, even us on this side or them on the scouting side never really anticipated seeing them pop off like they, like they have. Well, we've been hearing for a while about, you know, how this is a relatively weak class, even when you throw the context out the window, even a regular year, you look at the talent and you say, okay, you know, you're not getting a McDavid or a Matthews level talent at the top of the draft, but also even when we go further down towards the still in the top 10,

it's not necessarily as flush with talent as it might have been in the past. And I think we saw teams operate under that kind of commonly held belief at the trade deadline, for example, where you were just seeing first rounders move for players who probably in a regular year wouldn't have fetch the first just because they felt like, all right, we can probably get a first round talent maybe with our second round pick or a third round because there's so much variance this year and it feels like opinions could be all over the place. And that's kind of where I stand with this where I guess part of what makes it a bad draft for me is that at the top it's slightly less predictable or there might not be that talent

that puts it over the top. But I still firmly believe that we're going to look back at this draft and there's going to be a regular amount of really good players. We just might not necessarily know where they are. I know that's not very satisfying for someone tuning into the podcast right now to hear because they're coming, hoping that we're going to tell them who's going to be good and who's not going to be good. When we can make educated guesses based off of viewings and looking at the numbers and everything and putting it all together. But do you guys

both kind of agree with that perspective of it's not necessarily a bad draft in the sense that there's going to be no good players? It's just it's going to be tougher to sort of pinpoint who they're actually going to be. Yeah, without a doubt. I said that in my rankings too, is that, you know, is there going to be good players out of this draft? Absolutely. Is there going to be some stars? Yeah, probably. Is there going to be a superstar even? There might be. He just might not be at the beginning of the draft, right? Like, it's, it's going to take some work. And it's always hilarious after after every draft in the, and the GMs or the head scouts are up there. And they're like, we can't believe he was sitting there. We got our guy in the third round, you know, it's going to be

even more so this year. Like, it'll be demonstrative because teams are going to have players on their do not draft list that other guys are going to have in the 30s. Like it's, it's going to be wild too. So the teams that were able to adapt and move on to the online and, the video scouting efficiently and quickly and not have that pushback from their guys and have, you know, regional scouts in the OHL doing crossover work and, and scouting that Swedish third division and trying to figure out how to handle the tech and stuff like that, the clubs that were already in well positioned to do so will probably have an upper hand in that regard too. Yeah, and I agree with that as well. And I just think that this, this is a learning experience

here for us, for teams, for everybody, really just in in everything. I think we're going to have a better understanding of how to evaluate players at various levels coming out of this, this weird season. And especially, you know, when you're, when we're doing video, I mean, Cam knows this as well as anybody. You're dealing with the angles, the, the, oh, God, some of this footage is, it looks like it's like, I know, like, watching, watching, like the Mason McTavish footage from the Swiss division. It's just like, oh, man, not, some, some are fine, but there are other rinks where it's just like, okay, well, that wasn't, that wasn't amazing. But yeah, but some of them, yeah, I mean, even, even,

Even, I think it's gotten a lot better at the USHL level. It's gotten a lot better in the WHL as well. There's just a lot of better video out there, thankfully, now, because it was way harder to do even five years ago. So, yeah, but I mean, this year is going to be a learning experience. And, you know, I think, I think most teams probably deserve at least a modicum of leeway in this, in this year because I know that I'm hoping that people will give me some leeway in this weird year. but absolutely not especially especially on the team level you have to adjust and i'm not i'm not buying

any of those excuses on the team level i'm giving you a pass chris thank you i think i don't have those resources i'm going to give you some leeway but i mean i was going to make a joke there about how uh and i don't want to spoil it but but cam certainly didn't struggle with any of the mason mcdivish video footage he he uh he seemed to be seeing all the right angles i guess so yeah you know it boys I watched every shift of his this year. I'm a big, big fan. Okay, so on that note then, Cam, let's keep going with you here. When you turn on tape, when you're watching one of these players and you're really just kind of fully diving in and you're like, okay, I'm going to bang out a couple games worth of information

here on them, what are you looking for in particular? And I'm especially curious about, you know, the process obviously for you as a scout and as an evaluator, but also the development you've undergone yourself over the past couple years, having done this more and more, more in terms of either learning from swings and misses in the past or, you know, trying to keep up with the way that, you know, when you're projecting how this player is going to look like in the NHL. The NHL product itself has been changing so much that you're probably looking for different stuff now than you might have been five years ago. And also, you know, it just might be your own taste in terms of if you're watching something and you're finding yourself gravitating

towards particular skills. So whether it's like actual, you know, specific attributes or traits you can point to or sort of player types. I'm really curious for both your guys' takes about kind of what you're looking for on the tape. Yeah. So for me, it has changed over the last five, six, seven years for what exactly how I'm, how I'm looking at a player, how I'm checking for his translatable skills. But, you know, when it comes down to it, it boils down to, you know, whatever you want to call it, hockey IQ, awareness, processing speed is the ability for a player to recognize a situation quicker than everybody else around them, especially at the junior level, or be able to elevate up and think at the same level as a pro, you know,

as a 17-year-old playing in the SHL or the league or something like that. So if you can process quickly, you can mask some of your deficiencies too when you're 17 or 18 and you maybe aren't physically mature yet. You don't have that core and lower body strength to explode like some of these 30-year-old men you're playing against or some of these 20-year-old kids in the OHL is that you can get to Pucks quicker because you can see what's going to happen. you can change gears and shift and create a little bit of extra space to create a lane for your teammates so you can distribute through a fold. You know, I've said this before too, is that, you know, you can look at a player stat line and be like, oh, man, he scored 40 goals and 60 games this year.

Maybe only 10 of them are NHL goals. You know, someone else might have scored 22, but 15 of them were NHL goals. And so looking for those stackable, translatable skills, how is he scoring? How is he skating? How is he disrupting play? So hockey IQ, awareness, and then speed and skating ability. And it doesn't even have to be perfect right now. We're lightning quick right now, but it has to have the ability to improve.

And so there's some things when you're looking at a skating posture or at their stride length and their recovery is that these are easily correctable skills with added lower body strength and added core strength and some practice on it. These are going to be a little bit more challenging for a player to improve on, especially if they're not a player who plays with a ton of pay. who doesn't work all that hard defensively. Those are kind of red flags for me that maybe this guy isn't, isn't going to be someone who's going to really break down their deficiencies and try to improve on them off the ice. Maybe they will. And that is one of my limitations as being basically a pure video scout.

I will hopefully get to some more games here when the world wakes up fully. But, you know, I don't get a chance to sit down and talk to all these players and really kind of derive into the minutia of their psyche and what really drives them. So, you know, for me, I'm constantly looking to improve myself. I'm picking the brain of every smart person I can get a hold of and trying to steal all the information that they have and, you know, looking at other public lists and being like, you know, if a whole bunch of other lists have a player way different than I'm seeing them, you know, I can go back and question myself and go back and look and say, you know, what am I missing or

what are they missing? You know, maybe I am right in this situation. But it's always self-reflecting. It's, you know, assessing talent and building a list, two different jobs, two completely different jobs. And I am very much still in my infancy for list building, I would like to say, even though I've been putting these together for since 2013, it's difficult, especially once you get out of the top 10 or 12, it's really hard to lock in on a player and be like, you know, this guy's better than this guy for this reason. What's going to be more beneficial in the NHL level? Is it going to be, you know, a third line center?

Is it going to be a kind of tweener, top six winger? Those type of things that, especially when you get on the team side, it becomes, you know, for a billion dollar franchise or something I have. The stakes are super high for me. just a couple of tweets and articles. So, but always working hard to try to better myself. Chris, where are you out with it? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a constant of evolving, you know, evolving process.

I, you know, you used to do a lot on video than I was when I was at ESPN. I was doing a lot more live, but still doing video. And, you know, it's just been, I think that, you know, I became a much, because of the base that I had on video, I became a much better live scout, just, you know, where, you know, I usually don't refer to myself as a scout, but it's just that's the process of what you're doing. But, you know, like, that's, that's, I do feel strong, pretty strongly about the live views at this point, versus the other, you know, going the other way. I still think there's so much that can be gained off of video and that you can absolutely do the job on video and everything.

But, you know, this year was almost exclusively on video for me as well. So that was just getting back into that rhythm of trying to spot things, you know, being able to go back. And a lot of the things that Cam said are really the same things that I still go through, you know, now. And I've been doing it for about 10 years. I've probably only been building lists, though, since about as long as you have, Cam, you know, where I'm actually going through and building lists. I was more just doing player e-vals and not really, not really building lists because it was never really part of my assignment or whatever. And then I started doing that when I was at CBS.

I think that first, that 2013 may have been the first draft that I did with a full list. So, yeah, so I mean, I think the list building element is really the thing that continues to be a work in progress. I obviously talk to a lot of scouts. I try to be, I try to talk to them later in the process, too, when I've formed some of my own opinions. And I try to stay strong on those opinions unless there's something that I catch that I definitely missed about a player. And some of these guys that have 15, 20 years of experience in the business, they see things at a different level than I. I do. And so I always do pick up things from that. The thing that I definitely missed this year was that player interaction. When I was at ESPN, I was getting pretty good access in terms of being

with, you know, able to talk to pretty much whoever I wanted to going to events and being able to do like scrums and other things like that where I was able to get their, you know, get, get, kind of get in their heads a little bit. You know, I used to go to the combine every year and I would have an opportunity to talk to just so many different players. And then, you know, you get a lot of the same canned answers, but the ones that I get more thoughtful answers for, those are the ones that I really like. One thing that I used to do a lot is I used to talk to their individual coaches as much as I could. And I started to find that I wasn't getting enough value out of those conversations just because I think that, you know, usually when you talk to people that have a vested

interest in the player's success, I don't think that, like, they don't talk to me the way that they talk to scouts because they know that what they're going to say is going to be public, whereas they can be a little more honest with scouts. So sometimes I'll ask scouts what the coaches said to them. And sometimes I'll also ask opposing coaches what they think about a player, how they prepare for a guy. Those were different things that I folded into coverage when I was able to do it live. But I think this year, it's just much more been watching a lot of games,

getting as many views as you possibly can, taking advantage of the time that we have and the tools that we have. I mean, having things like Instat and being able to watch shift-by-shift videos and being able to watch things when they're broken down, you know, to the various things, being able to watch up players every single shot where they're shooting from, how they're, how they're getting it off, how many times they get it through, you know, and then also watching full games as well because I think the context of games remains important in evaluating players and how they're utilized and things like that.

But it's a constant evolving process, but, you know, the same things that Camp said. Hockey Sense is a huge thing. That's why I called my site Hockey Sense. The first thing I look at in a player. But how do you, how do you, how do you, not quantify, but what do you, what are sort of performance indicators that tell you that a player has good hockey sense? Is it like positioning? You just see their constantly in the right place.

There's a lot. I mean, it's obviously it's a catch-all term, right? There are a lot of different things. Some of the things that, that CAM said are really important, the processing speed. Are they able to make decisions at the pace of the game or ahead of the pace of the game? Are they able to, you know, spot? lanes. I think, you know, like Cole Coughfield is an example of a guy who has unbelievable timing, unbelievable spatial awareness, knowing how to get to areas and how to, you know, evade

defenders. He's he's got hockey sense away from the puck and with the puck. And then he's got the physical skills to finish those plays off. The other thing that, that I think really, you know, when I started, I used to have hand skills way higher on my list. And it's important. You have to have skill. There's no question about it, but you have to be able to finish play. So how many passes are they completing? How many good decisions are they making? Are they dumping the puck when they should or are they just doing it because that's what they're what they're told? Those are the types of things you have to try to sort through. You know, shooting lanes are how do they open up space? Do they take advantage when there is more time? Those are the types of

things that you see. And for a lot of these guys, the hockey sense is going to be the thing that actually improves over the time more as they gain more experience and they understand the game at a level. So that is one of the things that can improve over time, but it's so important that they have it now at the level that they're at so that as they progress, it will progress with them. Right. The game will only get faster. So if they're all right behind it right now, it's not encouraging. All right. Well, let's jump into it then. Let's get into the draft. And we're going to make a very conversational. So whoever makes the pick, we'll just open up the floor and we can discuss whether we agree with it or not. I think it's much more interesting for the purposes of

this exercise to do who we think should go in certain slots as opposed to trying to project who we think the teams will take because whatever, who cares, they're going to make mistakes. We're going to make mistakes. It's more interesting in terms of just how we think about the players. And also, I'm going to ask you guys, I usually hate player comps because they're generally lazy. It's like, oh, this guy is Swedish and he reminds me of this other Swedish guy who also played in the league 10 years ago. And that stuff is pointless.

But I think there is value for the listeners in terms of trying to visualize kind of what type of game we're talking about, trying to familiarize themselves with these players leading up to the draft. So if there's a, you know, especially if it's like a particular skill that you think reminds you of someone who's had success in the league, we can we can do that as well. So we're going to do a snake draft. Chris, you're picking for the Buffalo Sabers here on the clock first at first overall. Wow, man. Do you want to trade down? You need a lot. Yeah, yeah.

No, I will not trade down. I will go ahead. And, you know, he's been number one for me the whole way. I'm seeing progression in his game. Owen Power, big defensemen from the University of Michigan, even though Rasmus Dahlin is there and I still have full faith in Rasmus Dahlene to continue to progress, maybe not reach the level that we all expected, but to reach a level that is acceptable for an NHL, you know, top four NHL defensemen.

I think you can have a great foundation of your blue line. if you have own power. The things I like about him, you know, very smart player. He's he's smooth. He's poised. He has that great size, but, you know, he's a good skater. He's a good passer. Does a lot of things well. Did not have a great statistical profile this year at Michigan, but I did feel that he got better from the beginning of the season to the end. And if we're talking about comps, I would say, you know, I know that a lot of people have said Victor Headman because of the size profile. I think he's a little closer to Seth Jones for me in terms of just the smoothness, the poise, the confidence, and not necessarily a burning skater, but I think he's got really

improved his defensive game as well. So I think Seth Jones is probably a little bit more of a direct comp than Victor Hedman, though, you know, there's their similarities there too, just not quite as offensive. Are you saying more of Seth Jones back when he was actually good at hockey or or present day, Seth Jones. I think Seth Jones is still good at hockey. I think, yeah, I know. I know the numbers say otherwise, but I disagree. All right, Cam, I know you're going to disagree with this,

but I also disagree with. I think I have power fifth on my list. Yeah, I think you guys are nuts, but that's okay. Here's, sorry. No, go for it. Go for, Kim. Here's the thing about own power is that I really like them too. And I've had him one on my board for like weeks at a time without publishing.

And I like them. I like them a lot. like Chris said, I think he got better as the season wore on. You know, he did that with Chicago two years ago too, right? He started out. He was great by the end of the season. He started out in Michigan, you know, there was some issues and he just progressed. And by the end of it, I thought he was very good.

As a freshman, he went to the world championships. He was a little overwhelmed by the level of play. He got a lot better by the end of that tournament, just like a microcosm of the player he is. So I do have some reservations about where I put him on my board at number four is that I think that that could come back to bite me a little bit. he could very well be the best player of this group. I think he has the highest floor in the,

in the whole crop. And so him going number one to Buffalo, I think that's fine. They're going to get a minute muncher, if that's who they land on someone who's going to be a really great stopper. You know, opposing teams are going to try to game plan to not go down his side when they're trying to enter the zone.

If he can add some more snarl, I don't think the offense is going to really translate to get that Victor Hedman comparable or a John Carlson or anything. You know, maybe Seth Jones, that's not a bad one. a really, you know, big guy who smooth skater. I've seen, you know, Colton Perra go a little bit in him, too, where, you know, maybe he's more of a 30-point guy, especially if Dahlene's playing on that top power play and it chewing

up all the fun minutes is that's obviously going to limit his upside. And that's okay. He's going to be a good player. I don't think he has the highest star potential. I don't think he has the highest offensive potential. But like I said, I think he's going to be a very good NHLer. He's who I expect to go number one. And I'm not really going to fault them for doing it.

I think at this, especially in this draft, is that there's value in safety. and he is an extremely safe pick at the top. Yeah, I was going to say, Victor Hedman has elite offensive instincts and tools. I'm going to defer to you guys because you've obviously had many more viewing some than I have. From what I've seen, it's very obviously visibly apparent,

like the physical tools that people fawn over and why he's like so projectable to be an NHLer. I just find that for each of those tools, there's a question for, for me about his ability to utilize it effectively. So, like, he has great, uh, great reach, right? Because, because he's so big. But then you see he can burn sometimes in terms of outside speed where someone

makes a quick cut. Like it seems like that gap control is only really good when this guy's coming directly at him. He's very mobile for his size, but it's a lot of north, south, in my opinion and not as much sort of agility in the offensive zone in terms of creating in tight spaces. I know he instead had him at like really low turnover rate, but it looked like he was making a lot of very conservative safe passes. It wasn't like he wasn't really pushing the envelope offensively.

So I don't know. Do you think that's fair in terms of those concerns about the upside in terms of actually getting the most out of all those physical tools? It's obviously so tough to say about an 18 year old who's still so raw. But I think he needs to go to the right environment in terms of developing him so that he actually makes the most out of all of the, at that reach and that size and that skating for that size. Yeah, I think at the beginning of the season, it was, it was not good.

Like, it was really poor. I was concerned about his defensive footwork at the beginning of the season. And I thought that the pace was starting to eat him up a little bit. But as I saw him more through the end of the season and even to the world championships when the pace picked up, I felt like he was doing all of those things better. I thought that he was defending well, you know, keeping guys outside, pinching off plays, angling guys to the boards better. I did feel like he was killing those plays with a little bit more effectiveness.

I agree that, you know, he makes a lot of conservative decisions with the puck, but I also think that he has a real good sense of when to jump into plays and when they, when they need him to get moving up. I think that that improved over the year. I mean, this is also a guy that had, you know, really good production in his last season, the U.S. H.L. I fully expect that he does go back to Michigan next year to be in that 20 to 30 point range just because of the experience that he has, where he started,

and the fact that he's going to have so many weapons to get pucks to. It's, you know, that that's one of the things is when you play with a team like Michigan, the best thing you can do as a defenseman is get the puck into the hands of a Kent Johnson or Maddie Baneers or, you know, all those things. I think he did that especially effectively this year. So, but I definitely see the concerns, I think, over the course of the season. And especially in the defensive zone, I thought his positioning got better. I thought his awareness got better.

His urgency defensively got better. So I see him as a guy that has the intelligence and the awareness that he needs to improve in those areas. because if he didn't, I don't think that we would have seen the progression that we did over the course of the season. Cam, do you think he's going to be able to go back and retrieve pox and handle, handle opposing for checks effectively? I do. Yeah, for sure. He's, he's an excellent skater. You know, he's, because he's so big, it doesn't always look like he's, you know, he's skating all that hard, but it's a long and powerful and fluid stride.

He's not going to be shimmy and shaking like Quinn Hughes or Kail McCarr, you won't be that elusive type, but he's going to be able to get back in a hurry. He's big enough to withstand the pressure and the physicality. If he does, you know, if someone's right on his hip pocket like that and protect the puck and make those quick, smart outlets. I think that he won't have a problem making quick, smart outlet plays. Like maybe he's not going to make the more creative hold onto the puck and make a high energy pass.

But that's okay. You know, he doesn't need to do that. It would be awesome if he could. But at the next level, he's going to be very, very efficient. I think he's got top pairing upside. I think he's an extremely safe second. pair type of guy who's going to play on your second power play and play on your first penalty kill. And like I said, I think there's a ton of value in the safety that he provides.

And, you know, I've, I've kind of doubted him a little bit for that offensive upside. But the way that he has shown improvements year over year in the year in the short, you know, tournaments is that there's a chance that he could find, you know, another level offensively too is, I don't think that we can discount that completely. I think at this point playing your freshman, your draft eligible season as a freshman And college doesn't really offer you a ton of opportunities to go out there and be overly creative. That's not supposed to be your job, especially as a defender. So, you know, if he goes back to Michigan next year, which I think he should,

and I hope he does, that maybe he's going to have an opportunity to kind of showcase that added element of offensive upside. And if he goes back and he puts up a point of game, you know, then we're talking. Then there's something to build on there. But, you know, that's still yet to be seen. Yeah, you got, Chris, you mentioned Rasmus Delien's there. I wonder if he can beat out Rasmus just the line in. who hopefully will not.

Okay, let's man, I got nothing for that one. You guys, no, you guys, you guys comforted me there. I, I was a bit more worried, um, but it sounds like the skills are much more projectable than I was giving them credit for. So maybe, uh, maybe I should bump on my list. Um, all right, Cam, you're on the clock here for the crack in at second overall. Yeah, so they, they need a lot.

This team is, yeah, it needs, they need, they need, I. I think they need everything, Cam. They got some holes, hey? They got some holes. So I like that we're doing this on how I would pick too, right? Because I have absolutely no indication of what Seattle is going to do, right? I got no fingers in their pies. So, you know, for me personally, I think they would have loved to taken power if he was sitting there to have someone to chew up the minutes for them.

I think that, you know, when you're building a team, you're looking at, you know, building down the middle, building on the blue line, getting yourself a strong goaltender, getting all those pieces. And so, you know, I'm not going to get all crazy and go, yes, for Volstad here, but I am going to go a little bit crazy and I'm going to go Brant Clark. And so right side D-Men, there's only one of them in this crop that's got any real value. They are hard to obtain. And when you get a good one, you hold on to it for dear life too. So, you know, he's not probably going to chew up the minutes that power is. He might end up, but he's going to be a different type of player.

So six foot two, he's playing at 190 pounds right now. He's with a gross spurt this year as a draft eligible kid. So, you know, going over and playing pro hockey, he was really good. And we talked about power improving throughout the season. So to Brant Clark. And I think when he first showed up there is that his teammates were used to their defenders not getting them the puck quickly and efficiently. And I had a chance to actually sit down and chat with him a couple of times this year.

And he's a really good kid. But, you know, he said it took some time for them to trust him that, you know, go and I will get you the puck, whether it's with my feet and we'll move up together or I'm going to hit you with a long bomb. And once they started to believe in that, you know, the points started to flow for him as well because he was getting those primary assists, those secondary helpers running the top power play unit in a pro league too. So I was very, very impressed with his season. I like him a lot. I also value him as the smartest player in the entire crop. I think that the way that he can read plays, the way that

he can manipulate his body, he uses kind of every inch of skill that he has in the right situation to get the most of a play. And so he's not the most technically. sound skater. He does have that where his knees collapse in a little bit, especially on the back pedal. And I do have some concerns about, you know, Connor McDavid coming down on the wing on him. He's going to get turnstall a couple times unless he improves that. Those puck retrievals, you know, he's going to have to be able to get back quicker and make those plays. But I think that he's going to have the, he has the wherewithal. He has the effort level. He's a very intelligent kid. I think that he's, he recognizes that that's his, you know, the limitation at this time. And that's what he really needs to work on. But

defensively, you know, he's got a great stick in the defensive end. He doesn't need to be overly physical, even though he has good size, but really great mind for when to lean in. When he does take the body, he's taking the stick first. Great outlets, loves to jump into the rush as that fourth guy high or, you know, lead it himself. I think, I think there's another one here that's got top pairing upside. If you can clean up that skating, you know, he could be someone who could play, you know, first power play minutes for you as well and have those gaudy point totals that you want from a player that you're taking this high up the board. So he ended up being number one on my board

just because I couldn't shake the feeling that this kid has the highest upside on the right side on the blue line, which is, you know, it's becoming almost unicorn-like these days. It's so difficult to get those guys. I love them. I love them as a kid.

I love them as a player. And I think the crack him, you know, they could do a lot worse than him. I love the, in your interview, he mentioned that he sort of wants to model his game after John Klingberg. And I thought that was very encouraging to hear as a fat long time,

a supporter of Klingberg's game, especially the offensive, creativity and into decision making with the puck. Yeah, I guess you kind of answered my, I, I think he's the most projectable, uh, defenseman for, for today's game in terms of his skill set. I, I am a bit worried about when I hear that, you know, the skating's fine, but especially like the agility or the explosiveness, uh, in terms of dealing with defending off the rush, no one's really going to effectively other than maybe like Jacob Slavin occasionally

could be able to defend McDavid off the rush. So that's like obviously an extreme example, but, but you do need to, especially if you're going to be a top barry guy, be able to at least not be a complete liability when when speed is coming your away. Chris, how do you feel about that pick? And what do you think about Brancler? I think that like the, I have no problem with, with Ham's analysis. I think that all the offensive elements of the game there is is absolutely true. I think that where, where it gets murky for me is when it's that if he can clean up the skating stride, I think he's a bad skater for north South. I don't think he is a, I don't think that, I shouldn't say a bad skater. He's below average for me.

And especially backwards. I mean, defensive footwork, if he's not, you know, if you're coming in on him on the rush, I really, I have concerns about his ability to get in front of anybody. So it happened multiple times at the world under 18s when he's playing against his own own age group. You know, I, and I, so yeah, so bad is too harsh a word. I don't want to say it that way. because the other things that he does well, he's got some good, some good edge, he changes direction pretty well, you know, and had some elusiveness in his skating, which is really good. But, but I also, you know, watching him at the World Under 18s and seeing, being, having the chance to see it live, it was, it was more apparent to me than it was

even on video, um, that, you know, that his, he can still play the game fast because he thinks the game at such a, a high level. I think the hockey sense is outstanding. But I, I, I don't see, how he could be on your top pairing if he skates that way at the NHL level. I just, I don't know many other defensemen that move that way that will, you know, I think, I think he does have the smarts. I think he can be a top four guy for sure.

Just with that offensive ability, I think he's going to be great on the power play. And he, and yeah, but I mean, I have real concern about that. And, you know,

he's still a top 10 pick for me, you know, in this draft. And with, because there are so many guys that have skating as a deficiency. I just think that if you're going to be a relied upon defenseman in this game today, it is really difficult to do it without that quickness, north-south speed, and explosiveness. Okay, let's take a quick break here.

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Shopify.com slash blue wire. All right. I love, we're getting some good debate here in the first two picks already, right out of the gate. This is going to be a long show at this rate. But, you know, this is your chance for your rebuttal. Yeah, Chris and I, we go way back on doing these things, too. Remember a few years we did that draft debaters pod too? I do remember that.

Yeah, yeah. I can't remember we were really battling on someone. But, okay. I think it was Alex Vlasic and I think you were right. Yes. All right. I'll take the win. I'll go for it here too.

I mean, it's early yet, but no, no. It's too late. You gave it to me. Okay, so really quickly, I agree with what Chris says about north-south skating and with being, you know, backwards and turning and, you know, defending speed along the outside and those puck retrievals. And when I said that, I, you know, I do expect him to improve his skating. And so I actually sat down and chatted with two different skills coaches about the issues that

he has. And, you know, both of them said that it's fairly easily corrected with added leg strength. With adding that corn leg strength is that he's collapsing in is that you, he needs to, he needs to obviously work on the form. And that takes, you know, added strength to keep those legs nice and straight and keep that, add that footwork. And so, you know, I talked to him. about it too. And like that's that's going to be his life is going to be working on his footwork and

working on that skating posture too. So I am putting some faith in him, um, finding those gears. But you know, I did that because, um, I was questioning it too. Right. I was like, you know, I like, I love the way he can open up into a Mohawk. He can be elusive. He can be shifty. And that's why I mean by he uses kind of every skill that he has to put the best foot forward in a play, even if it's, if he's limited in that regard with the skating. And so I, that's why I reached out to, you know, a former one who worked with a team and who's now not, and then one who is currently working with a team right now. And they both said, you know, like, this is something that we could, we could correct. You know, give me,

give me a couple, you know, an offseason with this kid and then put him on a program and we can get that sorted out pretty quickly. So I am hinging that upside on that. And if he can do it, which, you know, I say with playing defenses, are you smart and can you work hard? You could probably play defense. Do you want to improve your skating? Are you smart? Can you work hard? You can probably add some stuff to your skating as well, too. So I think he has those, those two elements and spades and that I am taking a bit of a risk. I said that I'm taking a risk putting power at four on my list. I'm taking a bit of a risk by putting Brant Clark at one on my list and picking them here

at two. And, you know, it's why not, right? Have a little fun with this and take some risks. I like it. All right. I'm picking third here for the Anaheim ducks. And I would just like to say that I got the third and fourth picks here coming up. And my one and two on my board pretty comfortably are still available to me.

So I'm going to run to the podium here. And I'm going to take Maddie Baneers. And I just, you know, you were talking earlier, Chris, about how, or I guess, Camille, you might have mentioned it about how, like, Owen Powers is very safe in terms of, like, he's going to be a good NHL defenseman. Like, I'm not worried about him playing in the KHL four years from now. I just, I don't see a path for Baneers to not be an impact an HL player, at least at some capacity. You just, from the motor, the pace he plays at, his involvement in the play, The puck pressure he puts on wherever it is, pretty much all over the ice, the retrievals, the defensive instincts.

The knock I've seen on him is that he doesn't necessarily have, you know, elite scoring ability or questions about whether he can score to the level to be a legitimate top line player. And I think with the complementary skill sets he has, you know, it's not necessarily ideal if you're taking a guy first overall to be like, okay, he can be a great supporting player here. But most teams generally have already some really good players and really good. a talent on their rosters to work with. And I think Baneers is going to be very successful, especially put him with a good offensive player, just helping get them the puck. And I think his own playmaking ability is quite underrated by some of the reports that I've seen, at least from watching

his tape. So I don't know, how do you guys feel about Baneers in terms of what his actual ceiling is here and kind of everything I just said about him? Yeah, I love him. I mean, he's number two on my board. And I think that to have the level of detail that he has, his puck retrieving, is his puck pursuit. Just, I mean, just incredible in those regards. I think his speed really challenges defenders. He's got good footwork down low. He fights for puck's.

The, just the battle level is huge. You know, I think that his offensive game is fine. It's just that he's often given really difficult assignments and has to play against tough, you know, tough opposing teams top lines. You know, they let Thomas Bordolo and Kent Johnson kind of handle the, you know, try and get the offense going and they really focused on veneers being the guy at Michigan to go up against top lines. Then he still managed to be a point per game player in that regard. And, you know, I think what we saw at the World Championship was that there's still some things

that he's going to need to work on and just, you know, to get to the pro level, didn't quite always meet up to the pace and the decisions weren't as crisp as they were at the college level. Man, I think that he has all of the tools to be a leader on a team, a top, you know, top two for top two center, a guy that does pretty much everything you need, uh, still to win and, you know,

just has, has, has, has, has enough offensive upside to really make, make a difference, uh, as a,

as a guy at that end of the ice as well. So I think the fact that he's probably, for me, the most complete of the forwards. Um, and I think that, that really is what separates him from the pack for me. Well,

I don't, I don't really see a path where he won't be an excellent NHL player, but I think if anything, he profiles for me as a type of, player that's really going to benefit from everything that goes into playing in the NHL, which is he's going to get a lot stronger. And I think that's going to help his game a lot in terms of making his defensive impact

even better based on all the tools who already talked about. But also just like I alluded to, just playing with more talented players. I think it's going to, he's going to be one of those like connective players where he just makes everything happen for those around him. And I think that's an incredibly valuable player to have for any NHL team. And I can't. really, I wish I could debate some more of this, but no, I agree with everything. Basically what we're saying, I don't think he's a top line forward on a good team anyways or center

on a good team. And that's okay. If he's on a good team, then he's going to be a hell of a second line center for them. And like, like you guys said, he's going to be able to play on both special teams. He drives play as great speed. You know, I've grabbed a clip of them early on in the year where he rags the puck on the PK for like 55 seconds, just, you know, showcasing the hands and the speed and the awareness. And he's a really strong player. For me, this group kind of shook out as a top five in that top tier. And I honestly could have, I could have rolled them any which way. I had, I had Baneers as high as two for a long time as well. He ended up five just, just because I like a couple of these other guys upside a little bit more. But another player who, the power has got the

highest floor in the class, Benares probably has the second highest. He's going to be an excellent NHL. He reminds me a lot of Dylan Larkin. And yeah, they both played at Michigan and American centers. But, you know, it's this one, I think is fair. They got great speed. I don't want to say limited it upside for offense, but it's, it is a little bit. It doesn't have Superstar upside with offense. And I think that's going to be okay. He's, he makes players around him better. He's, he can go and retrieve those pox for those skilled, you know, players that he's going to end up playing with now a really good player. And someone who I also hope goes back to college for another season and maybe ups that offensive potential even more too by, by having some reps in a

league that he's, you know, comfortable with. All right. Well, I'll keep up, uh, with my picks here and fourth for the New Jersey Devils. I'm going to go with William Eklund. And for me, it was when I was putting together my list for preparation for the show, I was really struggling with the two forwards I just mentioned in terms of trying to figure out which one I preferred more. I think I certainly feel much more comfortable in terms of projecting baneers out at an HL level. I think Eklund ceiling is incredibly tantalizing. And if you can get him at fourth overall in this draft or even later based on some of the mocks that I've seen, like it's a no-brainer.

I would be running up to the podium. um it's like everything i've seen and read in terms of like his dual threat ability as both a shooter and a playmaker is is going to be such a weapon to any team that has him like well what what what are the limitations in terms of why people still seem to be kind of divided or why he's not in that top three or four for everyone as it seems like he should be i'm going to do for to cam so start on this one sure sure i mean i i mean i i like him a lot. I agree that I think his upside is very, very high, probably the highest pure point potential of this group. It's funny, though, that, you know, some of the Swedish

base scouts are lower on them than the rest of us. And that was a little bit of a red flag for me early on in the year, you know, his coach kind of threw him under the bus there in that one interview saying that he doesn't, you know, he's, he's not first overall material. And it's like, oh, good hype job there, buddy. But, you know, I think that he plays with terrific pace. He's not an electric skater. He's not Nick Eilers, but he plays with just really great pace all the time. He has that great vision, too. Like, he hits a trailer with that soft touch better than basically anybody in this class for my money.

And that's maybe his best tool is that playmaking ability. You know, he outplayed Alexander Holtz and Lucas Raymond this year as, you know, he's an 02 kid. So he's not a year younger than them, but, you know, different birth year, different draft year. So outplaying those two guys is pretty damn impressive for me too. So I think he's, I think he's probably a pretty. safe second line guy with that first line upside. If he can add maybe a little bit more quickness to add some more meat to his shot, he's got the good hands, but he's got the great IQ. And I love

the pace that he plays with. And yeah, I think he's going to be a really nice player. Yeah, he was top 20, I think historically for 18 year old seasons and the SHL in terms of goals, assist, points per game. So very impressive. Chris, what were you going to say about Eklund? Yeah, I was just going to say, elite vision, love that. I think that the big concern outside of, you know, I have them very high as well, but I think the big concern, the size and the strength. You know, he's gotten injured a few times this season. And you just wonder, you know, is he going to have the physical profile, you know, physiologically to not have that happen?

I think you heard some of the same concerns about Elias Pedersen as well. So, but I, for me, you know, I think he is, like Cam said, the vision is one of his standout traits. I agree. I think it's the best in this class. some of the plays that he made this year at the pro level as a young guy were so far advanced and looked like NHL plays to me, a guy that has NHL decision making. So, yeah, I'm not sure exactly why he's kind of had that reputation.

But, yeah, getting hurt a few times at key moments of the season didn't exactly help him. It's just strange because it seems like everyone's complaining about how this class doesn't have supremely high-end skill or super star potential. And it's like, well, what about this guy? And then people are like, no, well, not him. Other than that. All right. Well, Cam, this is lining up perfectly for you here with the fifth overall pick for the

Columbus Blue Jackets. Yeah, this is great, too, because I did a mock draft for lead prospects a couple weeks ago. I'll do another one right before the draft too. But my guy's sitting there who I took at CBJ on that one, too. So it's Mason McTavish. So, you know, the kid ended up jumping up and being number two for North American skaters on Central Scouting.

And once I saw that, I was like, oh, no, I was supposed to be the one that was super high on them. And so guys, they jumped out in front of me. But, you know, a kid who plays a heavy, heavy game, you know, 6-1, 62 already playing at close to 210. I wrote that deep dive on him just last week. And I was getting some quotes from scouts. And, you know, one of them sent me at the end of it.

He said, and he can shoot it through a car door. And I was like, oh, that's lovely, because he can. The kid has just a monster shot on him. Playing as a 16-year-old for the Pete's in the O.HL. Two years ago, he was, you know, I think he was second only to Shane Wright and goals and points for kids that weren't draft eligible or older. He reminds me a little bit of Pierre-Luc Dubois or Anton Lundell, you know, these big power centers that can do a lot of good for you.

I think he's going to develop into just an excellent defensive player in the NHL, like someone who's going to be a matchup nightmare who can also turn it around, and move the puck in the right way. He can play the bumper on your top power play and pop into the slot like that. And the puck is in an office stick and in a heartbeat physical. You know, when he was over there playing in the Swiss League, like I have a dozen clips of him just taking three hard strides and plastering pros against the glass.

I love his, I love the way that he looks at the game and assesses it and makes those quick decisions. He has nice hands. We saw that the U-18, like he was making guys, you know, look silly out there with some of his, his hands and his way to manipulate his body. Not an electric skater, you know, more of a north-south driver of play.

So he's not going to be this, someone who's going to probably be causing a bunch of highlights in the NHL, but he can, he has a good offensive upside. And I like this small area of manipulation game, powerful stride that has improved greatly, I'd say, over the last 18 months.

And I love to see that in a player, especially one who's already physically mature, probably not going to be playing too much heavier than he is. If anything, he's probably going to add more lean muscle and lose a little bit of that, that kind of, you know, 17, 18 year old muscle that he has right now. I think for Columbus, you know, building down the middle,

especially what's happened there in recent years, that he's a pretty easy pick and the top center left on the board here after Berners goes. What do you think, Chris? Yeah, I mean, I'm a big Mason McTavish fan as well. I think that the skating is the one thing that had me keep them out of my top five personally, but at the same time, I think that all the things that Cam just said are accurate. And I actually, I had a guy that scouts for, you know, for a CHL team,

who was telling me, he's like, he's like, everybody's way too low on McTavish to start this. This is at the beginning of the season before anything. And he's like, I'm telling you, man, this kid's going to, you're going to fall in love with them. And, you know, really, where he really popped for me was at that World Under 18 championship and just seeing the level he was, I voted him on the All Star team because I thought he was that important to team Canada. And, you know, a big reason why they won a gold medal.

He was great in matchups. And then he also shows this incredible playmaking ability is the great shot. You know, just the, the defensive. capabilities and just a physical menace on the ice. So, you know, I think that he's a guy that could go higher than, you know, I think Cam is right in line with where the trend is in terms of where Mason McTavish is going for NHL teams. I think there's a really good chance. He does end up as a top five pick in this draft. But I think that the one thing that the only concern I really have about him at all at this point is the skating. Yeah, the lack of sort of true explosion

is going to limit him a bit in terms of pushing the pace up the middle of the ice. But it's seems like by all accounts he's going to be a monster in probably both the offensive and defensive zones. And, you know, we focus so much on, and I'm going to talk more about a rush player here sometimes soon down the road. But, you know, the game's obviously so predicated on attacking off the rush and scoring in that way. But like we just saw the Tampa Bay Lightning, for example, I thought one of their most underrated attributes as a team in terms of both the way they play, but also clearly the way they wanted their players to play was like the board work. and winning all those battles and just retrieving an ungodly about of loose pucks around the net and rebounds and everything like that. And so, like, yeah, being able to skate fast is obviously very important,

but also being able to reliably be good in both zones is also very important as well. And it seems like at least with McTavish, he's certainly an imperfect player, but it seems like there's a lot of upside, especially if you can improve that skating to the point where it's even above average. For sure. All right, Chris, well, you're on the clock now. You've got back-to-back picture. You're picking sixth for Detroit and seventh for San Jose.

Yeah, so I don't know if Detroit would do this, but since he is the best player available on my personal board, I've got to go with Luke Hughes. And, you know, I'm obviously a big Luke Hughes fan, have been for a while. And I think that, you know, especially with more at Sider coming down the pipeline, the right shot defenseman, why not add an elite left shot defenseman? And Luke Hughes, I think that the skating ability, you know, I know there's concerns about his injury, but he's been skating for the last five weeks. He had, you know, a tendon injury, a laceration. And by all accounts, it sounds like things are looking really well. He's ahead of

schedule from his recovery. And there's full expectation he'll be pretty close to 100%, you know, in the next week or so here so that he can play in the World Junior Summer Showcase. You know, obviously you see some of the similarities to Quinnies in terms of, you know, his edge work, his ability to open up his hips and his deceptive skating, great on puck retrievals, really strong in moving the puck up the ice, has some offensive creativity, not quite as dynamic with the hand skills, but he does have some of those elements. Defensively, he should be, you know, there's still work to be done there. I think that he needs to be a more consistent defender, a little more aggressive defender,

and as he gets stronger, because he's still a pretty lean, he was six foot two, so he's a lot taller than Quinn and Jack, but he's, you know, he's got to get get a little bit stronger as he attacks on muscle. I think he'll become a better defender, have a little more two-way capability. Not just a pure offensive defenseman, though, I think that he spots passing lanes extremely well in the offensive zone, really good on the power play, gives you a lot of confidence in everything that he does. I think that what I, what really stood out to me is at the World Under 18s was how different that U.S. team looked without him, not having him and a guy like Sean Barron's who can move pucks as easily as they as they do.

Only having one of those two guys available for the championship really impacted the way that that team was able to play. So I just think that Luke Hughes, while, you know, I guess the other thing that I would say about Luke Hughes, I think he has among the most potential of anybody in this draft, the highest ceiling, just because of the fact he's so young, he's born just days shy of the cutoff. and then also where he's at now compared to where his brothers were and where I see him going just based on the work that he's putting in personally. I think that that's going to be a huge factor in his success.

I think if you're the Red Wings, you're going to be happy to have a blue line that has both Luke Hughes and more cider on it. You've got a pretty dynamic and physical and all sorts of other things, you know, potential top pairing for years to come. Finally, the Red Wings draft a Hughes. it's the first time, but at least they get the second one. Cam, got him. How do you feel about that one?

Yeah, I couldn't believe that Detroit fully told Quinn that they weren't going to take him even if he was there at six that year. You're like, what? You play in your backyard. Yeah, they blew that one. So I actually, I think Chris is, you know, you were saying that he's the highest guy on your board. You're not sure if Detroit would do it.

But, you know, it does seem like a decent fit, as you said, with Moe Sider coming up on the right side there. And he plays that just, I love Mo Sider, but that physical brand, who's going to probably be a little more. at home in the NHL, not a quote-unquote say at home, but have that responsible nature, where Luke is more of a freewheeler. I don't think he has nearly the elusive, shifty edge work that Quinn does. I think he's an excellent skater, though, regardless of that north-south, this long, fluid stride that can really get him up the ice in a hurry. I do question his,

his awareness on the ice, which is why he's more at the tail end of my top 10. But, you know, part of that could be attributed to being so very young in this crop. I, you know, he's a full year younger than Owen Power. So, you know, he's going to have an opportunity to get more reps and try to figure that out, too. I find that he can skate himself into trouble a little bit when he goes on the rush and he can miss some better passing options. But at the same time, he can also make a quick play and then sift in a backhand sauce into the slot area for an A1. And, you know, I have a lot of clips of those type of place too. So I think, like you said, the upside is quite high with him.

I think that he's probably another player who's going to end up as your second pairing guy in a probably a safe prediction. And if things break right and he can come along and add some offense and some more creativity and some shiftiness that maybe he does end up being a really nice pairing foremost either on a top pair for the Red Wings for a lot of years. So I don't think that's a bad pick there. He's right in that next tier of guys for me once we're getting into the six to 10, 6 to 11 range. So yeah, Luke Hughes, you know, he's a Michigan kid. It makes sense for Detroit. I'm not too mad about it. Chris, let's keep it going. Who do you have at seven? Well, I still, he's still on the So he's, he's, this, this works well for me.

Um, I've got Dylan Gunther, uh, going at, at number seven, just as a best player available situation. I think that, you know, one of the more dynamic players, I think the concern that I have about him is that, you know, he, he is, he is more the finisher than the driver. And, and, you know, I, I'd like to see him handle the puck more, um, especially, you know, with team Canada, he was in a situation where it was like, hey, you know, we've got Shane right here. he can do that, you know, let him do that play driving, which is a good decision. But, you know, also with Gunther, I just think that, you know, in terms of his skating,

his shot, his passing ability, the offensive skill set, if you're outside of Eklund, I think that that's a guy that, and Kent Johnson is another one that's right in that same mix where I feel like those are two guys that I would, you know, feel really comfortable with as an offensive performer for my team. I think they have top six upside. Hunter also has good work ethic. I think he gets engaged physically. He doesn't always, you know, lay the big body check, but he gets, he gets battles for pucks and, and he's able to make plays. He's got some good ability right in close to the net, too. I'm not afraid to get to those hard areas. And I thought, you know, the things that stood out to me was just the fact that he is so often, you know,

the other guys are driving play and he's the one that's just kind of there to make the last pass, the last shot kind of thing, you know, not always going to be necessarily the guy that brings pucks in, as much as some of the older players that were on the oil kings this year. But he obviously has a tremendous finishing ability as showcased by his production at both the WHL and World Under 18s this season. So I like his ability to finish. I think that's a good fit for him, really anywhere, if you want to have some offensive upside.

I think every single mokstrave seen has had Dylan Gunther, seventh overall. Not even because he's linked to the sharks. It just seems like people are very comfortable with having. in his second prospect in this class. Could be. Cam, so I obviously I think goal scores are incredibly valuable. I think sometimes we even underrate them, if possible,

because everyone is so focused now on having puck possession and doing all sorts of, you know, doing all the little stuff. But then especially come the postseason, you realize how valuable it is to have elite finishers who could put the puck in the net and finish off these passing sequences. Do you think that Gunther's shot is good? enough that he's going to be able to step right in.

No, no, not obviously next year, but just down the road and beat goalies cleanly with it. And do you think that's enough to have him this high in the draft? I do. Yeah. So we talk about NHL goals. This kid's goals scores a lot of NHL-style goals than junior. So, you know, he can release it off his outside foot in flight, like some of the best finishers in the world do.

And so that is something that you can look at and be like, what's he going to do in five years when he can already do this right now? So, you know, he's got the two touch. she's got the wrist for, I like his one timer on the power play too, you know, his inside game, he can get into that bumper spot, he can drive the net, he can look for rebounds and battles in the D in front of the net, so he can score in a myriad of ways. He's not just an outside finisher.

You know, a couple of the things that I'm looking at that I want to see improve and something that he did better as a 16-year-old than he did this year was, you know, some of the playmaking through the neutral zone. Yeah. Adding a little more east-west to his game so that he can, you know, work, that give and go and get himself into a situation where he can get it back and finish it because he's, he doesn't have that solo creation skills where he's not going to be able to waltz a couple of guys and get his own space probably in the NHL. He's going to be a little more

reliant on getting the puck and moving it and then getting open and finding that quiet area to finish it off himself or get it in flight with a little bit of space and get it off in a hurry. So, you know, as far as goals scoring upside, I think it's the highest in the class. He definitely has 30 goal upside. If he ends up being on a top power play unit, that's only going to bolster that too. And so, no, I think he's, I think this is right, perfect spot for him. I've got him six. And, you know, if, if he goes three or four, that wouldn't surprise me either, because like we said, you know, goals are a premium and you pay for it too. And so a team really might fall in love with how he can finish. And I think he's going to be a high conversion type guy

at the next level too. And, you know, again, it's, I don't think the, I don't think the floor is like a quad A guy that if he can't put it together, he can't be in the show that, you know, he has enough to his game that he could adapt probably and become more of a tertiary. score for you and still help out in other ways too. So I like him a lot. I, you know, he probably was who I was going to take for L.A. next if he was still sitting there. So it makes it a little harder on me now. Okay, well, let's get right to it. You got L.A. here at 8th. It's your pick. What are you going to do? Which means I got to have fun, right? If the guy I was going to take isn't there anymore, then we got to get weird. So, you know, Seattle, my first pick there, they had a few

holes in their organization in the pipeline. L.A. has virtually no holes in their pipeline coming up. They are just a sleeping giant. So what do you do with the sleeping giant? you give him a number one goaltender. So let's go at Yasser Valsad here to L.A. You know, they took Lucas Perry, I think it was two years ago. He's there, probably their top goaltending prospect right now, is 6'4-Kid who was playing for Dubuque this last season.

But, you know, going with the goalie here, he's also the highest on my board. I think he has the highest superstar upside. I think that he could be the one guy that, you know, ends up being a true star from this class. He's been on the radar forever. no two kids who's a little bit older, but you know, he's outduled, Ascaroff in international tournaments.

He played terrific in the SHL this year. Yes, he was playing on a good team, but so you don't put up a 920 as an 18 year old in the Swedish hockey league without having a lot of skills. I trust goaltender people. I don't claim to be a whisper in that regard, but there are some things that I look for when I scout goaltenders and at the top of the list outside of obviously having good positional ability and having some athleticism is that unflappable nature is can you recover after a.

a bad goal, a tough goal. You know, do you, even if you don't let another quick one in, do you look a little shaky, or you're making mistakes, you're not looking at as calm or confident? And he has that unflappable nature. He has that starter feel to me at six foot four, has the pedigree. It's not like Ascaron said he relicism to an extreme degree. He sounds, and I think that that could help him long term, too, is that that that's going to be, that's going to be beneficial is that he won't need to clap some of those things.

He doesn't have to make a dramatic second, third, fourth, save all the time because he is in a good spot and he's sucking up those rebounds. So for L.A., you know, he's a goaltender of the future. They got Cal Peterson right now who can kind of backs up him. But, you know, this kid's good enough. I think he could step in and be an HL backup in two seasons and be pushing for regular starts. Chris, how do you feel about Walsh State?

How would you compare him? I remember last year when we were doing this mock, I think I wound up pulling the trigger on Askorov by like 10th or 11th and it was pretty similar to where he went. in the actual draft, but it was always, is we've been so conditioned to, to stay away from making those decisions because of the value perspective and the uncertainty with the position and all that. But is Wallstead good enough of a prospect in your mind to justify being a top 10 pick here, acknowledging that it is a pretty weak draft? And also, how do you feel about the gap

between him and Sebastian Koso or any other goalie prospects in this class? Yeah. Yeah. So I think I think it's a good pick for, for L.A., especially as a team that has so many things everywhere else. I think that that makes a ton of sense to me. It also gives them the chance for the biggest splash potential, getting that number one goalie. Because I think you're, you know, at this range, you're starting to look is it second pairing defenseman, middle six forwards?

You know, like that's where you're even in this draft. That's what you're starting to view as some of these guys. But in terms of how he ranks compared to COSA in particular, I think they're pretty close. Like, they're really close on my boards. I think that COSA's end of season performance, It's just all the whole season run in the WHL, even though you do have to take the numbers with a slight green assault just because of the quality of competition and also the way the WHL season was set up and how it was compact.

There is a lot of a lot of people out there that really like Kosa's physical package because of the six foot six frame, the quickness. I mean, he's one of the fastest big goalies that I've seen. And we'll probably, we'll talk about him later when he gets picked because I think he'll go in the first round. but I think for Walsett, what I, what I value so much is that hockey senses, his, his pre-shot movements, his ability to set up, you know, I think that some, he doesn't have the explosiveness of an escarov, he doesn't have the, the quite, you know, the, I don't think he's as technically sound as say as Spencer Knight is, but at the same time, he's got kind of, he's somewhere in between both in those very key things of the athleticism, explosiveness and the hockey

sense and technique that he has, you know, I think that he's one of those guys that, that is, is pretty special in the goaltending department. I think we've got a couple in this draft class, but I think that's a fine pick there, especially for the Kings. And as much as I like Cal Peterson and think he'll be a good NHL goaltender, there's a chance that you could have a real star here with Walsett.

I like it. All right. Well, I'm here on the clock for the Canucks at 9th. And you know what? I'm going to pull the trigger here on, I think, my favorite prospect on this class. Not the one I think is the best. but Fabian Liselle, to me, I just, I can't get enough of his game.

I understand this might be a bit of a reach and I understand the concerns, but I just watch sort of the pace he plays at, the motor he plays with, the fact that he actually uses it offensively as well, so it's not purely just a one-trick pony. He's just all over the ice. I think it's a very translatable skill set. We've seen players like that succeed and provide a minute's value at the NHL. I think his ability to attack off the rush and manipulate opposing defenders' feet is remarkable.

And that's such a valuable skill in today's game. And so I just, I have to pull the trigger on here because I think he presents the highest upside at this point for me in terms of like, I believe that this guy could really step into an NHL lineup and make a massive difference right out of the gate. Yeah, I mean, I'm lower on them than that. I'm not sure. I mean, for Vancouver there at 9, they do need speed. They need a whole lot of everything, to be honest with you. So I'm glad. I thought you're going to go KJ, Kent Johnson, for your favorite prospect in this class.

I don't love, I don't love Ken Johnson. No, you usually love the guys with the slick hands and all that fun stuff too. I'm, I've got enough concerns about his ability to, to pull off those plays against NHL level competition that I understand the upside. And I think he's going to provide us with some great gifts. but I'm a little bit more concerned than the optimist of his gamer. Yeah. Well, when it comes to Laisal, he's a great skater. The jersey is always flapping, plays with really great pace.

I wish he would actually change up the gears a little bit more to create some separation. You know, use that driving into the dotted line, getting into the middle of ice is still very much a work in progress at his size. He's going to have to force the issue to get in there. I think he needs to be better at recognizing some passing options. he can get a little tunnel vision on those rushes. But, you know, with that speed, there's going to be a ton of opportunities for him, especially if you can work hard and become like a really strong defensive player too, because, you know, guys with that have that great speed,

they have the opportunity to be great penalty killers too. If they can be smart and they can work hard. So, you know, I talk about a kid like Nick Eilers, who transition can cause fits against teams. You know, Lysel could have that similar upside through the neutral zone with the great speed. So I think you need to add some more creativity to his game. You need to add some more gear changes. needs to look for more passing options, but there is the raw tools there that he could have

some nice top six upside. I feel like we've seen good skaters who work hard, figure that stuff out. Sometimes it takes them a couple years. Like I think Kevin Fiala is obviously a great example. Like I remember when he came into the league, it was just literally going top gear all the time. And I was like, sometimes you can tone it down a bit and then you can get into the inside a bit more because the opponents are much more off balance than if they know you're just going to go full bore. So I think I'm optimistic that he'll be able to figure that out. I just think the two-way value in terms of if he can put that all together is immense. Chris, how do you feel about the player?

I like him a lot, too. I think, you know, I don't like him as much as necessarily passing over some other guys in this slot. But at the same time, he's so unique to the class, right? I mean, there aren't many guys that play the way that he plays. There aren't many guys that skate the way that he skates. Certainly not those left. at this stage, I think that there's a lot of upside in what he brings, and that uniqueness is what's intriguing. I think that there is a good chance, however, that Lysel is going to end up dropping on draft day just based on what I'm hearing.

I feel like there is some doubt about his overall, you know, just kind of competitiveness. his his his uh his you know i hear the word soft a lot um so that i personally it doesn't bother me as much but that's just what i've been hearing um and so i think he's one of those guys that i feel like we'll drop on draft day but end up coming through and and being a guy that that you know i i feel he has the upside to be an nchl player and and agree with a lot of the things that cam said in terms of things that he needs to improve on but man i i i think he's just so unique to this class so i have no problem with the pick. It's just I, I know that I think NHL teams have soured on him more than than I expected them to. Yeah, we're going to come to draft day and then all of a sudden,

we're going to look up and the Carolina hurricane somehow got him and he's going to wind up being a great player and I'm looking forward to that. So no issue there. Let's take one more quick break and then we're going to round out the rest of this top 15. All right. We're, we're finishing up the top 10 here. I'm picking for the Ottawa Senator as a 10. I need your guys input. So I'm, I'm, I'm between three names here. Kent Johnson is not one of them. I'll let you pick Ken Johnson, Cam. How about that?

I really am very intrigued by Fedor Svetchkov. My concerns about him are how projectable, because everyone seems to think either him or binneers are the best defensive forwards in this class, especially in terms of pure defensive ability. I how projectable that is when you make the talent jump in terms of quality of competition from the VHL at MHL to the KHL to the NHL, what that's going to look like. And then what kind of premium you pay for that skill set where if he doesn't develop the

offensive side of the game, do you really want to be spending a top pick on a one-dimensional player like that? Because we know in today's game, everyone always talks about, oh, like, like we want we want to be good defensively like come to postseason you need to be good defensively but then at the end of the day you look and the people who wind up getting paid and you need to pay a premium for are the people who put the puck in the net so I'm not sure if if justifying a top 10 pick on a player with his current skill set is enough but I'm interested enough and I think the other players involved or are flawed enough that I'm really uh leaning towards

taking I'm here at number 10 do it I'll do it I'll do it I'll do it Cam what do you think about that I'm not mad about it at all. I've been, you know, one of the highest onset, Scott, for a long time. You know, I think he ended up 11 on my board. Yeah, I had him as high as nine at one point. I thought that he really showcased the offensive upside at the U-18s. He always had that small area ice manipulation, you know, even at the VHL level, but in the, in the AM, like, one of these guys that you can't touch when he's standing still

on the blue line for some reason. So he's got the hands. I think he has the awareness when he plays with high-end offensive players that he has ability to make those quick plays and get them pucks into high dangerous spot. So I like that fetch off a lot. And like you said, he's the top defensive forward, probably pure defensive matchup center type of guy. So if the offense doesn't come, you know, you're still getting a probably a pretty, pretty solid NHL player. You know, I was listening to a former player talk about, you know, you pay a premium for these defensive guys, but you only do it if you're the best, right?

You're ready to make a serious cup run. Otherwise, you don't pay for that type of talent. So for the Sends, you know, I think they have a lot of talent coming up. And, and our, already on their roster right now, as is, a lot of offensive guys. So he would probably fit in really nicely at that group there at number 10. And I think that that's a totally fine spot for him. I know that some lists have him closer to 30, but I think they're sleeping on them. I like it. I feel a lot better about it now.

Chris, what do you think? Yeah, I like him, too. He's in my top 15 and was able to see the offensive game that he does have. I think his vision is outstanding. And that comes with the hockey sense and why he's so good defensively. He's just got great awareness and he's a competitor. He gets after it. He is not afraid to get in there.

He's got good physical strength. And I think we'll see him play some KHL games next season. And that'll give us a real good indication of how he handles himself physically against top professionals. So, I mean, I have no problem with it. It's not the pick that I would personally make, but it's also one that I think is well-reasoned. All right. Well, Cam, you're up at here at 11 for the Chicago Blackhawks. Just get it over.

Just take Ken Johnson. You know, I pretty much have to because I'm going to, I really kick on the best player available. And he's eight on my board and we're picking at 11. So I guess I'll go KJ here, but I am tempted to go Cole Cillinger. But I'll go Kent Johnson. You know, we talked about it. He's got the highest pure puck skills, slick, smooth play creator in the draft. You know, I loved him with Trail on the BC a couple of years ago.

It's just like a fan favorite, just someone you can really root for and, you know, makes those great clips to put on Twitter. I did not expect his games to translate so quickly and so efficiently to the NCAA level. O2 kid, sure, but as an 18-year-old freshman, like, usually you don't even get the opportunities that he got. So it's hard to really kind of assess him versus some other players that will play as an 18-year-old in their draft year in the NCAA. But, you know, playing on a team with Brasson and with Bordolo and with Baneers and power and, you know, that Michigan team, they just get, you know, through all their young kids

in and instead go make some stuff happen. and, you know, he made some stuff happen. Like, playing at a point of game player as a freshman in your draft eligible season is nothing to sneeze at. Those, that type of production screams top 10 prospect, even, you know, in a, especially in a weaker draft, but even in a good draft. So, you know, the issue with him is getting to the inside at his stature. Is he physically going to be capable to force his way in there? Is he going to end up, you know, Mason Raymond like where he, you know, he skates around the perimeter all day.

You know, I know Craig Button has compared his game to Elise Pedersen. I compare it more to a Sven Berchi, who is a true. tremendous junior player and had all the top six upside in the world. It didn't necessarily break right for him in his career. But I don't think that necessarily means that Ken Johnson can't turn into a really productive top six winger. He's not a center as far as I'm concerned. But here we're picking for the forfeited coyotes pick. So it's actually Chicago. They need more. They need more skill in their system too. They went with Lucas Reichel who plays a hard kind of grittier game in the first round last year. Now they're taking a kid who's got that kind of sublime playmaking

skills too. So I think it's a fine pick for them at 11 year. What do you think, Chris? Are you worried at all? The two main concerns I've seen about him are his ability to, well, his skating ability and also maybe overplaying the puck a little bit in terms of, you know, getting too cute or kind of getting himself into trouble by sometimes not making the easy play. Yeah, no, it doesn't bother me. I have him really high on my board. Actually, I have him six on my board. I think that his, I think the upside is, is dramatic with him as he gets physically stronger. I do want to see him get inside more, just as Cam said,

I also agree he is not a center more than likely at the NHL level. I had Mel Pearson on my podcast not all that long ago, the head coach at Michigan, talking about how much he improved defensively over the course of the season. And I thought he improved as the season went on in all facets. It's not necessarily something that I would highlight in his game. It's not something I say, oh, this guy's going to be, but he's getting more, he's rounding out his game more.

And as he gets stronger, I think he's going to be tougher to play against. there are a few guys in this draft that I would be more afraid of coming across the opposing blue line than Kent Johnson because he has so many options available to him. And I think he's getting better at making those reads too, playing off of Thomas Bordolo, playing off of other skill players. He really showed that he can match skill with skill and improve guys around him. So I think ultimately there are just so few players that handle the puck the way that he does. I don't really, he can be guilty of overhandling it, but not to the degree where I think it would make me shy away from picking him.

All right. Well, I haven't 12 on my board, so I like him. It seems like you guys like him more. But that's great. This is why we're doing this podcast. Chris, you're up at 12 here for the Calgary Flames. Yeah, so this one's a little bit tougher because if I'm just going purely on best player available,

and I think it makes sense for them too, but the guy that I would have next on my list that's still available is Simon Edmondson. And I've been so up and down on him all season long. He's got a great physical profile in terms of the six foot five. He's got hands. He's got decent mobility. He needs to get stronger.

He needs to make some better decisions with the puck. I think his offensive capabilities are understated a little bit. Also did not love him at the world under 18s. Thought that was a poor showing for him for a guy that expects to be a top 10 pick. I have no problem with him going outside of the top 10 here. I know Cam is not a huge fan on the hockey sense, and I think that that is absolutely a concern. I do think that he's a very unformed raw player, and that is the thing that just excites me about him and scares me about him at the same time.

I think there is a lot that you can mold there. But when you have that hockey sense of the potential deficiency, that is where I get concerned. but I think based on everything that I've seen from him, there is room to improve. He has a good foundation of skills to play the position. It's something that I think Calgary would be happy to have more of in their system. They do have defensemen in their pipeline. They have a young guy like Valamaki,

but I think that, you know, Edmondson could be a real interesting pick as they try to transition away from their, you know, Brody being gone and, you know, I could potentially lose Giordano. You know, there's going to be a need there eventually, but that's the guy that just ends up being the best player available. So I would strongly consider Chas Lucius if I were them in this position. But if I'm going to go best player available, Simon Edwinson is the guy for me on my board. You will almost certainly go significantly higher than this is the actual draft, right?

it's possible i wouldn't say it's definite because i think that i think that under 18 worlds was not a good last impression right yeah so and that that that's come obviously more recently than this list came out but i believe at one point bob mackenzie had him second on his board of polling people know yeah yeah and his list are usually pretty accurate the biggest reason i think is because of that that rawness that teams just want to get their hands on a guy like that and mold him it's not an easy job, but it's one that would be exciting for a team to take on because if you get him to hit his ceiling, well, then you've got a pretty darn good defense. You got a guy that's going to play for you for a long time, but I understand the concern. So for me, the bet that I made on

in making my list was that, you know, similar, that there are things that he will be able to improve on as he gains more experience and he just gets more reps against elite players and playing professionally more. That's where I feel like he could potentially take the steps necessary to be a high-end defenseman in the NHL. Well, Cam, it's from everything I've sort of seen and read, there's a lot of the cop prevailing theme is worries about his hockey sense and kind of awareness. But usually when you hear that about defensemen, it's because they're kind of clueless in their own zone.

But for him, it seems like he makes a lot of mistakes with a puck, but he's generally pretty solid in his own zone in terms of actual in zone defensive play. Yeah, he's not bad. He's not bad anyways. And he held his own in the SHL level, which is nothing to. sneeze at, you know, at his age. You know, I agree with Chris. Like, he is a unfinished mold of clay, right?

Like, he's just this big six foot five, 205 pound kid who can skate very well. He's unbridled his enthusiasm to rush the pocket every single opportunity to a detriment. But, you know, I would rather light a fire under somebody than, you know, cool somebody out than try to light a fire under them. But I do have an issue with players who fit a statistical profile, a physical profile, I should say, but lack that awareness. So, you know, he very much reminds

me of Philip Broberg in the sense that when he goes on those rushes, he's trying to problem solve, and he's not the greatest problem solver. He's not a pre-planter. He's just out there kind of freewheeling it. I don't think he's going to be sitting there at 12. I think that we could all guess what GM would love this type of player who's sitting inside the top 10 right now. So I would be very surprised if he got past Vancouver at 9 unless, you know, someone jumped up on Volstad. And then that meant that Mason McTavish or Brandt Clark or someone who made a ton of sense for the Canucks Pipeline was sitting there with Edvinson. But if they're not, I very much expect that to be their guy.

You know, I had a scout texting me that back in like November that you watched Jim Benning's going to love this kid. And he might end up being right. You know, it could turn out to be a player because it just takes one. It just takes one team that falls in love with the potential there. When you have a defender that size and can skate that well, it's going to afford him a ton of opportunities to figure things out. but we've seen it time after time that it is very difficult to improve kind of holistic

decision making. So you can get more reps, you can get more experience and you can learn from your mistakes, but you need to learn from your mistakes, right? That is the key to this, is that you can, if you keep making the same ones over and over again, you're not going to, it's not going to work out for you very well. So I do have some time for them, you know, at this range at 12, absolutely. I think he ended up 13 on my board. I think that that's right around because of that potential there, that there's probably some safer guys out there. But, you know, like I said, that size, that skating ability. He's got pretty good defensive habits right now for his age.

I don't love him. Probably one of my least favorite guys in the top 15. And I think that's just because some people, especially public lists and, you know, Bob McKenzie's list too, have him really, really high. And so whenever that happens, I end up pushing back a little harder than I should maybe. I don't love lamb-baseding 18-year-olds on Twitter. But yeah, Edvinson, fine at 12, but I think he'll be going before that too. Yeah, he'll be gone before that.

And no, it'll be great. I mean, they can ask and take him. and then Tyler Myers can take him under his wing and show him what not to do out there. And it's a good combo. Perfect. I like it. All right. 13, Chris, for the Philadelphia Flyers.

You're up. Yeah. Best player available again going Chad's Lucius on this one. I think that he is. Wait, best player available or best name available? That's both. Both. And if you can get both, you'll be happy.

Not necessarily the kind of guy that I would normally expect the Philadelphia Flyers to take. But I do think that his high-end scoring ability, one of the better releases and just the ability to get inside, I think, is really improved. Had a weird season this year where he was recovering from knee surgery, missed a lot of time, but he goes 13 goals and 13 games playing primarily against the USHL and really just did a, you know, showed that he still has really good hands, that ability to get shots off quickly. You know, I like the way that he gets to the middle of the ice. And I think that, you know, he competes.

he's he's he's he's been a kid that you know has had a lot of good fortune in you know in his development and all these other things he's he's had a lot of coaching a lot of skill development over the course of his life and and it shows I mean it just it just does he's he's a he's a very gifted player with the puck on his stick and I think you know he is going to go to Minnesota where he's going to play for Bob Motzko and they're going to say hey you know there are things that we need to work on here and they will help him round out into a more of a pro style player. But I think that that skill level, his scoring sense, his scoring ability, those are things that you can't really develop too easily. So I think that those are the things

that he already has that will help carry him and why I think he has such high upside. Pam, do you have any, any Chas Lucius thoughts? Or if you want, you can just jump straight to your 14th overall pick for the Dallas Stars. I'll just say that I love the fact that Lucius has always been the number one threat, you know, that opponents have to match up against. And yet he still finds a way to be opened a few times in those pockets and then he finishes it. So I can watch a full game of his and just be like a sleep being like,

where is Tras Lucius? And then bang, bang, all of a sudden he's got two plus one. And it's just he has that ability. He's probably going to be a high conversion finisher. I wish he'd play with more pace. If he did, he'd be a top five guy for me. So the fact that he missed a whole season

and still came back and scored a goal game and looked pretty good doing it, I got a lot of time for Tras Lucius for sure. Cool. Okay, so who do you have at 14? Who do I have in 14? Yeah. So I kind of want to have some fun.

with this pick, but I'm going to stick with the guy that I got top on my board, too. So a kid that's still sitting there in the top 10 for me is Cole Cylinger. I like him a lot. You know, I went back and forth on Cillinger versus Lucius all season because they're kind of similar players, not really, but they're finishers, you know. I think, I think Cilinger has that snarl that you want to see with your skill players, too, that he's got a mean streak. He can play physical.

Another one who can really rip it too. So he's more of a probably an out high finisher compared to Lucius who can get into those pockets and finish. The skating needs a little bit of work still, you know, like he's maybe an HL average at this point. Moving over, coming from the WHL as a 16 year old where he was awesome, a dual threat offensive talent. I really liked the way he used his teammates through the neutral zone and in the offensive end. This year in the USHL, he lost that playmaking a little bit, but to be fair, he was the guy. He was basically the only one who was going to finish off play, so he was just saying, screw it. I'm just going to go do it myself. So I'm betting that he has

that skill set still baked into his game that when he moves up and he's playing with better players. He comes back to the dub. Whatever happens here is that he's going to have that element to his game. And so I think that he's one of these guys that if for some reason the offense didn't translate, which I think it would, he could be a very tenacious, you know, disruptive third liner. But in a better perfect world, he's going to be in your top six and he's going to be contributing. And for Dallas, you know, they probably need a touch of everything. They took Maverick Bork in the first round last year, you know, Thomas Harley the year before that, or should I say Harley Thomas? And so, you know, I think grabbing a kid like him, another one who plays the middle of the ice right now. But I think

probably is better suited on the wing long term. And I think he can fit a nice little role for them on the right side. It's a good pick. I think the statistical models love Cillinger. Like every projection system I've seen is very high on them. I had them higher on my list than this. So this is a good value. Okay, I'll round it out at a 15.

I'm kind of curious for your guys take. I think the next guy on your board is Oscar Olis and right, Kim? Yeah, which I'm higher than many people on. Chris, who's the highest player I left on your board? board. The highest player left on my board is Sebastian Kosa. Okay. Oh, I'm not going to do a goalie. No, I'm not going to do that. Yeah, I know you're not going to do. No, who, who in their right mind would. Oh, me apparently. So, uh, what do you guys think about, uh, Logan Stanko up in here? That's who I wanted to have fun with on the last pick, but I had him way down at 17. So I thought it'd be,

it'd be disruptive. But I love, I love Stanky. Yeah. I mean, what, he played like six or seven. games this year in a WHL. So I like what I see a lot in terms of the profile, in terms of a shot generation. I think it's very interesting. It's kind of a bit of a projection pick. But especially as you reach this point of the draft, like if you tell me that there's someone with that type of offensive upside left, and we keep talking about how this draft doesn't have nearly enough of it, like I think this is the range you get into where you can

kind of take a home run swing on a player like that. I like it a lot. I had a, you know, I was talking to Reese Jess up. I was on his pod there yesterday. you know, former Western League scout for the Florida Panthers for a lot of years. And his hot take is that, you know, he thinks Stanko was better than Gunther. And I was like, oh, damn, you know, I'm not ready to get that hot. But, you know, I've got him top 20, 17 on my board.

He's a finisher. He, you know, despite the size, you know, this kid's got dirt under his nails. He gets into those hard areas of the ice. He can work the corners too. It's going to be harder to do that at the NHL level at 5 foot 8, 5 foot 9 or whatever he is. But terrific, you know, I wish he was a little more electric with that skating. Again, then he could really, really project him as that score. but man, the kid knows how to finish.

Like you said, put up a ton of points this year in just a handful of games. I thought he was very good at the U-18s. Another one you just root for. A player to root for with high upside when you're picking at 15 or whatever, especially in this crop. Yeah, I got all the time in the world for Stankhoven in this range. All right. I agree.

Let's round out the list then. Chris, you can go first. Sneaky favorite players that we haven't talked about. There are still on the board, player who could rise, a favorite player outside the first round, or you think is going to go out of the first round, maybe a player you want to stay away from.

Just give me, throw me a couple names that you want to, you want to touch on here. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think I'm really intrigued to see where Nikita Chiburkov ends up going. Really interesting player. Love the offensive skill that he has.

You know, there were there were great moments and poor moments in the under 18 worlds, far more great moments for him where he was just, you know, an all out competitor kind of took the game over against the U.S. in the first game and disappeared in the gold medal game. unfortunately, which really hurt Russia, but that's just one game of, and you look at the different things that he's done this year, scoring a goal for St. Petersburg and in a KHL game and, you know,

getting some opportunities with the national team and performing well. You know, guys that I like that are later that will probably be picked outside of the first round. One guy that I've just really enjoyed watching this year that's grown on me throughout the season and really continue to with the under 18 was ProHore Poltapov. So another Russian that I think he's got a high compete level on top of having a really great skill. I think, you know, he can make defenders miss. He was the top scoring U18 in the MHL this year as well.

The skating is probably the one of the primary concerns. He's not a big guy either. But he gets into it. He is not afraid to take a hit to make a play. Just does a lot of things, a little things well that I think will allow him to reach the upper levels and potentially outpace his draft slot. So that's a guy that I like quite a bit. And then I'd say another one that's kind of in that mix of guys that are later that I like a lot that I think, you know, will provide value in that second round range is Matthew Nyes

from from Tri City and the USHL. I think he's got the power forward profile. He, you know, I'd like to see him get a little snarlier, but he's got finished. He did not have a good start to the season. This was a guy who came into the year. I felt pretty strongly was going to be one of the top first round eligible potential guys, you know, in the USHL this year and not, not expecting to see the explosion from Matthew Coronado. And, you know, knowing, obviously, had high hopes for Mackie Samiskevich as well after watching him quite a bit last season. But Nyes has been a guy that's really grown on me over the course of the season. And, you know, started high, went down, came back up. I thought that that was, that was really good.

for him. So those are guys that are kind of in the later, you know, I view him as probably, he'll probably go in the second round, I would imagine, based on what I'm hearing. There's a chance, the outside chance that a guy like him could end up in the first round if the right team is there. But, you know, I think that that's, those are a couple of guys that I really enjoy watching and will be very interested to see where they go because I really think it could be anywhere at this point. Cam, give me a couple names. Okay. Some guys we haven't talked about, I was going to say Samiskevich, but, you know, you briefly mentioned him a little bit.

So I've got a kid, Zach Dean playing in the QMJHL, some of the slickest mitts in the entire class. Like the kid's got handles for days, but he also has excellent skating posture and his technique skating is really, really good. He competes, you know, he's dynamic with his pace.

You know, he's, he almost can't resist contact. Like he loves to initiate contact, which is sometimes it isn't great for him, especially at his size. And I think that that's something he's going to have to adjust to at the next level. But he's one of these guys that I have earmarked. that the production didn't really come this year, despite watching him and being like,

look at all these chances, look at the skills, look at the effort level and the skating that I expect he's just going to blow up next season with monster point totals. Another kid who's, he's probably going to be there on the second round, maybe, or the tail end of the first, and we're going to look back and be like, what was he doing there at 30? So I've got him in my top 20, big, big fan of his game. You know, a couple other guys or another guy that I think, who I like more than most. you know, there was a lot of talk about Olin Zellweger and I talk about him in a different podcast too,

so young for this crop, great, great skater. I think he's got a lot of upside. One of these guys, he's not going to be Sam Gerard, but, you know, when we look back at Gerard going in the second round, it's like, you know, take a swing on someone with upside.

So he's very, very young. He's a week away from being in the next year's class. He stole that top power play game from Brant Clark at the U-18s. He's got, I've got a lot of time for him. And I'll mention one more guy here that I'm much higher than everybody else on, and that's Cole Jordan. I was talking about how Zellweger is young for this crop. Jordan is very old for this crop, but he just screams, like,

defensively responsible. Everyone's going to love playing with him and you're going to hate playing against him. That safe, safe kind of second pair guy on the right side too. So I got a lot of time for Cole Jordan. And you did say, who's a guy you're going to try to stay away from? And, you know, a couple of them, Scotty Morrow, Chica for me, these guys that have, you know, don't have great minds on the back end that have physical profiles that some people like.

those are the type of guys I'm staying away from. I like it. Well, that was funny, guys. That was pretty comprehensive. Hopefully people that are, you know, like myself, parachuting in after the postseason and getting ready for the draft are feeling a bit more prepared. I certainly do after chatting with you guys. So I'll allow you, you go first, Chris, plug some stuff.

Where can people check you out? How can they support the work? What are you up to you? What can they expect from you and do all that? And then Cam and I can talk about a contractual obligation. to prospect like that. Yeah, I feel like an infiltrator here. No, I really, I really appreciate the time coming on.

It's a pleasure to do this again. Great to talk with Cam as well. And of course, Dmitri, you as well, just a lot of fun. But to get my work, it's all at HockeySense.substack.com. You can also find it via chrispeter'shockey.com. And so that's where all of my written content is. All my draft rankings, mock drafts. There will be a ton of draft day coverage.

it will be behind the paywall and some of it won't be. So, you know, if you want to check it out, you can sign up for the free email as well. And that will give you some more information on the coverage that's coming up for the draft. A lot of post-draft content. I'll also be immediately heading. I'll actually be covering the draft from Plymouth, Michigan, because I'm going to the World Junior Summer Showcase. And I'll be there for the duration of that event, doing some broadcast work for hockey TV. So I'm excited to do that as well. And yeah, hockey and talk. And talk Hocking Hockey senses the podcast available wherever you get podcasts, particularly the Hockey PDOCast and other such such great, great podcast. But yeah, but I really appreciate the time coming on today.

And it's always a pleasure to talk in hockey and exciting time of the year. And great to be chatting with you guys. Well, this is a blast, Chris. Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate you. Love your work. So this is a lot of fun. Cam, let's get into it here.

So we've released a draft guide, which is, I think, covers 107 prospects, 750. pages. I have it on good authority that people that haven't checked it out yet or haven't subscribed to the EPIRNside. If they use the promo code draft guide, they get three free months off of an annual subscription. You get my work, my random musings about NHL topics. You get CAMS fantasy coverage. You get CAMS draft coverage. You just released a prop list of your own. We've got film room content there from people like Mitch Brown and David St. Louis. So there's a lot of good stuff. I highly recommend whoever listens to this podcast and enjoys it. goes, checks that out as well. But Cam, uh, give us a bit more on sort of what went into the

process of putting the draft guide together and kind of what you're working on these days. Oh man. Yeah, that draft guide is just a behemoth. So, you know, it, it comes with your subscription to EP Ringsside and to elite prospects. And so you get all the extra stats too on the website if you're just a stathead like that too. And then you get tons and tons of content. You know, I obviously completely unbiased, but I think we've got one of the best groups in the business right now too, that they've, they've really invested in getting some quality, quality people. And on the prospect side of things, you know, for that guide, we spent the entire season putting it together, right? You know, hundreds of game reports and thousand pages and stuff

like that. But even if you're just more of a casual fan, it'll give you the snippets that you need, right? All over quick little breakdowns. You don't need to get into the minutia of it. It'll provide everything you need for draft day for who you want to get. And then you can check it out on who your team actually got to. For me, you know, yeah, just dropped rankings. I'll do another mock draft. I like to do, you know, draft week, kind of a fun little five unpredictable things that could happen on draft weekend. Depends on when this podcast comes out, but there'll be a pretty fun announcement for what I'll be doing over draft weekend, too. So you'll be hearing a lot for me and Dim, maybe you and I can come and hang out actually because I'll be in your neck of the woods. Yeah, you can follow me, hockey underscore Robinson.

I'm stoked to Chris that you'll be doing some broadcast work there with Hockey TV. I love hearing you at the U-18s. That was a lot of fun. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, yeah. It should be a fun, fun sprint to the finish here and then free agency. And then, you know, maybe go dark for a minute and just have some fun summer fun with my family and get off Twitter. Okay.

Well, guys, make sure to hydrate. Make sure to enjoy the sun at least a little bit here before the draft. Take care of yourselves, first and foremost. Looking forward to this draft and all the covers. It'll ensue after that. Thanks for coming on to chat. And we'll have you back on. I mean, hopefully before then, but absolutely for the 2022 mock draft next.

Sounds good. Thanks, Dimitri. It's about. Mediocast with Dimitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud. At soundcloud.com slash hockey p-docast.