The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 426: Goaltending Does Not Exist In A Vacuum

Episode Date: January 28, 2022

Kevin Woodley joins the show to discuss goalies, notable performances at the position this season, and how defensive environment can affect things for them. Topics include: How easy Igor Shesterkin makes it look His value to the Rangers, and goalies in MVP discussion Juuse Saros' movement, and how fun he is to watch Freddy Andersen, and Carolina's defensive style Ville Husso vs. Jordan Binnington Low shot environments vs. staying busy If you haven't done so yet, please take a minute to leave a rating and review for the show. Smash that 5-star button. Each one counts, and helps us out greatly. If you're feeling extra generous, you can also leave a little note about why you recommend people check the PDOcast out. Thanks for the help! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

On a beautiful run through the park, on a pleasant day, you can easily get lost. No, no, no. She didn't kill him. Huh? In your true crime podcast. It was the pool guy. So obvious. Whatever motivates you works for us, it's all about letting your run be your run. And Brooks is here for every runner. Doing the research and sweating the details to create gear that works for you.

It's your run. Brooks, run happy. Progressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast. Post, Dimitri. It's our hockey PDOcast. My name is Dimitra Philpovich, and Joyneemie is my good buddy, Kevin Woodley. Kevin, what's going on, man? Not much, man, not much.

We're at the midway point of the season. So what are we going to do? We're going to talk, like, some awards. We're going to break. Like, can we rewind? You know, we should have done this on December when save percentage was like, at an, like, not quite a historical high, but it was trending that way. Yeah.

And like in the last month, the bottom has fallen out of gold. goaltending and everyone's scoring goals and there's like nine a night and it's just like it's crushing my soul here, Dimitri. Well, it's crushing it. This is going to be a good bookend for the PDO cast because my most recent show was with Daryl Belfre. And we spent like an hour talking about how to improve offense, how to maximize scoring chances, how to like do all this stuff that's going to get more goals.

He's brilliant. And he's awesome. Now we're going to go on the opposite end of it. And you're also brilliant, but we're going to talk about the guys responsible for taking the fun out of the game. Okay, far less brilliant, like so far down the brilliant spectrum. But did you know, it's my understanding that Daryl is a goaltender. So it's an inside job.

You are going to have to check that out. But he has done some camps with Eli Wilson. My business partner at In Goal Magazine, David Hutchison, has been part of those at some level, I believe, on the ice two. And somehow it came up in the conversation that at some level or at some point, maybe in junior, Darrell was actually a goaltender. So a little off the top of my head there, hopefully I don't have wrong information there. But it wouldn't surprise me because as a fly on the wall,

of those discussions hearing about them through my business partner, like the back and forth, like a lot of what they're doing to figure out how to score is figure out how the goaltenders are trying to prevent it. Like there's a big cat and mouse game. And I've been at camps where, you know, not Darrell, but we've had skills coaches, guys like Tim Turk out there with the goalie coaches, NHL shooters like Justin Schultz and Andrew Ladd, Tyler Myers. We'd have like a half a dozen NHL shooters at a goalie camp. And they're all going to school on guys like, you know, we'd have Devin Dubnick and James Reimer and Connor Hellebuck.

And the interplay in the back and forth has always been a fascinating thing. Like Doobie sitting there watching Reimer in a drill down on one knee at the hash marks as they're doing sharp angle stuff and him and Andrew Ladd having discussions about where is a shooter the exposure is on these types of things. We're trying to stay ahead of the Belfries of the world, but we're not doing a very good job because his clients have just the level of deception that he's put into the game, showing one thing, delivering another on goal tenors. Like, the cat and mouse game is getting a lot harder.

Yeah, it is. I'd recommend, you know, obviously biased, but that was a really fun show. So whoever hasn't listened yet, I'd recommend that. Hopefully we're going to touch on some equally insightful stuff here. I'm going to try. Other end of the spectrum. Let's just bounce around. I've got a bunch of topics here.

It's been a while since we chatted, and I want to get through as many things we can. Let's start with Igor Shostrcan. And here's the interesting thing to me. Because I think award stuff is, we're still too early, right? Like we're at the halfway point, as you said, there's going to be so much of changes between now and the end of the season. So it's silly to even kind of broach that topic. But he is having such an effect on these Rangers games at this point that I do think it's almost transcending the conversation of, do we, is he going to be a Vezna candidate because he obviously is and is a heavy favorite at this point. my mind to can you make a case for him for the heart because he's been that valuable to his team.

And I think we're going to have differing stances on this because I say no simply from the perspective of I usually don't consider goalies for the heart. And the reason I do that is because as soon as you include one of them, you kind of worms where goalies are inherently the most important player in the team and the most valuable position. So you could make the argument that the top three heart candidates should just be the top three goalies that season. See, I'm going to give you this one because you, you, the caveat that

goaltenders are the most important part, like you gave me that. So I'm going to give you that on the awards. Because I agree with you. Like, it's so hard. How do you measure, you know, and actually, you know, frankly, there are people that do it, you know, in terms of, you know, the way they rank players and the way they rate their contributions. I know there are, um, analytics people in, in, whether it's, you know, in the public

sphere that are doing that work. So I, I shouldn't say, how do you do it? They do. But I just find it difficult to compare a goaltender's contribution to a player's, you know, whether it's Schistierkin with the Rangers or UC Soros with Nashville, like, clearly you can see. Like, those are both guys that are Vesna candidates. And clearly you can picture how much worse those teams would be without, like, how lost those teams might be without that level of goaltending because of how much they rely on them.

But how do you wait that compared to a dry sidel of McDavid? or a McKinnon. You know, again, people are doing it, but it's beyond the scope of my brain, so I'll just say we're content with our Vesna Award. If you want to give us the heart every single year, I can probably find you a goalie that deserves it, but I'll live with your standard of Vesna only. Yeah, goalies undoubtedly have the biggest impact on the team's overall results.

That's no question. You can make the argument that, all right, if, especially as we're transitioning away from Warnikor's goalies, if you're saying, all right, this guy's only playing like half the team's games, then you have to factor that in as well. But I think this might be an extreme example where we do need to consider it because you look, and the Rangers are currently playing at a 114 point pace. I think they're like, they're number one in the metro right now, but it's because they've played more games,

but they're like right there with the hurricanes and the penguins. And every single 515 metric you look at otherwise suggests that they're not only more of a fringe playoff team, but they've been one of the worst teams in the league. They're 30th in shot share. only the Sabres and the Coyotes are worse. They're 32nd and expected goal share. They're 26 and high danger chance share. And none of those metrics was suggested this is a team that should be competing for their division lead.

But then you look at what Shisterkin's done and all of his stats. And I'll rattle off some of them for you here. And I'm curious how they line up with what you've got. But he started 25 games. He's got a 937 save percentage plus 21.1 goals able to have expected. He's given up one or fewer a goal against in 11 of those 25 starts. and he's given up two or fewer goals 16 times. I think the only two real blow-up spots he's had so far

are actually, ironically, enough, both against the flames. And they're both games where they were like, it's not, they didn't lose because he gave up five or six goals. It's because it was just a landslide. This is a problem for me because I have a weekly hit on Calgary Radio, and so every time I go on there and talk about Igor Shish Terkin as they run away, that trophy. It's like I've lost all my credibility,

because the only two times Flame fans have seen them, they've lit them up. Yeah, I'm with you on that. and, you know, the goal saved, and, you know, just the caveat at the top here, I have access to under the hood at Clearside Analytics. So that's the database I'm working off of. I trust the way they measure shot quality. I think they do it at a level that I haven't seen anybody else do. And so it really sort of helps measure goal tender contribution compared relative to team performance defensively.

And so Schiachirkin is at the top of that list with, you know, in terms of goals saved. He's 25 and a half. Interestingly enough, UC Saros has closed that gap significantly. Yes. He's less than half a goal down. But the big one to me, when I look at, you know, when we talk about jumps, is save percentage, like, you know, relative to expected. Like how much better sort of, like, take out the cumulative number.

Because Scherkin, as you said, hasn't played as much as some of the other top guys. There's a massive gap here. Like all the guys that are sort of in the Vesna conversations, Soros, Markstrom, Sorokin has worked his way in, Vasilevsky. they're all kind of between 2 to 2 and a half percent above expected on say percentage. Shistercans 3.6. So for folks out there, like if, you know, that's the difference between a 920 and a 931. Like that's a big gap.

And normally the gaps between the goalies half a season in are incremental at the top of the charts, he's got a huge gap, a huge gap. Now, there's another name here that has entered the conversation, and that is Billy Huso's music. Okay, like in a very small sample, but not tiny, like big enough to be significant, his adjusted save percentage is 5.4%. Right. And he's already up to 20 goals saved and half the work. So we can talk about him later because I don't think, I think he needs more minutes before

he enters the conversation completely. But the gap between, you know, the Saros's and the Markstroms, the Sorokens, and even Vasilesky and Igor Shishderkin is a large enough one that I think that's where, You know, we add in all the things you said about where they are as a team. I think it's reflected in his play, and that's where we start getting into conversations about heart trophies. Well, I think the interesting thing here is, like, listen, the Rangers have the reigning Norris trophy winner who's once again going to be a finalist for that in Adam Fox.

They have an elite power play that's helping fuel the guy who has the league leading goals scored and Chris Kreider. Like, they have certain elements of their game. I cited those poor 5-15 metrics. There's certainly other elements involved here in terms of why they're winning games. but we wait into these interesting waters for me as an analyst where I think we typically tend to discredit teams or devalue their legitimacy as contenders when they're so reliant on a goalie to this capacity right where we go oh they're just they're just riding the goal he just had another 40 safe performance you know this isn't sustainable and the reason why and I understand why we we do that it's because our confidence level in projecting how a goal he's going to perform not only night in and night out, but over the rest of the season is diceier than how I, like I feel pretty confident that Connor McDavid is going to be

awesome and one of, if not the best players in the world on a nightly basis every time he steps on the ice. For goalies, they're going to have off nights. And if they have an off night and you don't have a good team around them, you're probably going to lose because if they're not saving the puck, it's going into their net and you're giving it goes against, right? Yeah, on a team like that at the margin for error is much more. Of course, Nathan McKinnon can have an off night, and he's got Miko Ranton and Gabriel Landis called Kilmachar. Like, he's got reinforcements around him, right?

And on that team, Darcy Kemper can have a bit of an off night. Of course. And in Edmonton, they win. And in Edmonton, they'll win on a lot of nights where the goalie has an off night, right? Just because there's all that firepower. So there's different ways to do it. The reason why I bring that up is I know your pal, Steve Vallicad, likes to point out and remind us that the goalie is part of the team.

Goaltending never exists in a vacuum. And in this case, I would argue, and this could, we're recording this on Thursday morning. It's changed by Friday. The Rangers, I believe, do play tonight. Like, apologies in advance that this is a jinx. But my confidence level in projecting E. E.R. Shastirkin's performance on a nightly basis, based on how he's looked this season, is about as high as it can be in the sense that I feel like when he's on the ice,

he might give up a goal or two. And then there reaches this point in time in all of these Rangers games. where you can just tell, oh, okay, he's just locked it down and the other team will not be scoring from this point forward. And it's, it's an interesting viewing experience to watch it play out because you're sort of noticing it in real time. Like he makes a couple saves. And then, like, the level in which he makes them, it's like it becomes easier and easier to him or it becomes almost robotic in a way where, and I'm not a technical analyst in terms of goaling movement or anything. But like, it seems like so many pucks just like hit him squarely where he's

on top of it. Okay, now I get to geek out, right? So this is the why. And it's not definitive. Like, I can pull up, you know, where his results are for every different type of shot, where his strengths and weaknesses are. But from a style standpoint, he moves from his knees. Like, he skates incredibly well.

Like, his movement is exceptional in all parts of the game. He beats plays on his feet, his patience on his edges, watching him even in practice, the number of times when some of those players, You know, like Zabinajad, like Panarin, like Crider, are just walking in in practice. And there's no panic in his game. He holds edges. He'll make saves without dropping in those situations

because he's so patient and in controlling on his edges. But once he does need to go to his knees, whether it's to make a save or a play down around the goal line or something in sharp, he skates from his knees at a level that I'm not sure we've ever seen in the NHL. Maybe only Andre Vasilevsky right now is close. I had to write a story on it.

I was looking for descriptives from guys around the league whose opinion I trust. And the best one I got was from Ian Clark, the goalie coach here in Vancouver. And he just said he's like a hovercraft out on the ice. And so that's what you're... Like, it doesn't matter how, while they're crazy the sequence is in front of him,

it feels like he is moving around the ice on his knees without getting up to his skates, like almost like one of the goalies on the, you know, the old table hockey, you know, where you just, they were on a slide and you just moved them around. Like, it's effortless. There are things he does in terms of lead edge rotation to move around the crease. Like, it's not traditional in the way he grabs an edge and moves. literally skating from his knees and he does it in a way that allows him to not open

and close as much as other guys so you're not exposing yourself in holes and when you watch when he does it the Rangers tweeted out a clip from practice early this season that we just jumped all over at Ingole because again it was a there was an element of movement there that we hadn't seen before and literally within days

we had like junior goalie sending us clips of them trying this move like we're calling it the Igor And it was remarkable. He did it in practice. And then the next day he did it to make an incredible backdoor power play save against Nashville. And you're like, man, like we haven't seen anyone do it this way. And he's doing it in games, in live action. And the way he does it allows him to move like that, like the hovercraft, never be out of position, never look panicked, and still have access to his hands.

So he's not, as he moves, he's so in control and compact that he can still react with a block or react with the glove. Like, it's just, it's really fun to watch. It's fun to geek out on. Yeah. And when you start to see the results, broken plays, lateral plays, sort of low lateral plays through the slot line and see that all his numbers check the boxes there. And then you see how he moves and you're like,

well, yeah, of course, this all makes sense. It all adds up the eye test. What we're seeing that it excites us is actually playing out in real time in terms of his results on those types of chances, some of which other guys just don't get to. He not only gets there, he gets there in control with access to his edges and his hands.

Yeah, that was a much more eloquent description of the way I view it is he just absorbs scoring chances Whereas just like it it looks like if you see the final result of the puck hitting him you wouldn't think it was a dangerous chance But it's because like he made it look that way because of his movie That's the ultimate compliment for a goaltender You know and I've written this story a few times over the years Highlight real saves goalies hate them right like one of the things we do at Ingoals we do something called pro reeds where we We actually do video sessions with NHL goals we sit down there and watch video with them and they walk us through what they're seeing and why they played it a certain way.

And they hate highlight reels. Like they want, that's the hardest part for me is to clip the right stuff. Because the ones that they like the most where they make the best read ends up with a, like you said, they make it look easy. Because they've made a read, they've processed something or they've moved in a way that allows them to be there, be set, B square and just take that thing right in the logo. It's not sexy, but it's got teeth, right? Like that's the best goal to heading.

And the other part, just to go back to our goaltending doesn't exist in a vacuum conversation that I've really learned and has really been eye-opening through the process of that pro reeds is that for all the information goalies gather about opponents, you know, handedness, looking off the puck to see what hand the guy on the other end of that pass is before the pass goes across because if it's a right-handed shot and it goes across his body, I have more time. If it's a left shot, it might be a one-timer moving that way. guys with Pucks come across their body shooting back the other way, they tend to funnel it to a certain part of the net,

like all this information that a goalie process is in real time, where everyone is on the ice, where the most dangerous threats are, it's incredible. Yeah. But as we've gone through it, we're two years now and then over 100 of them. I think we're 110 in with all kinds of names,

price, hard, like all the top names. The amount of times where the read is more about what their defense is doing and them trusting their defensemen to force a guy in a certain direction so that they don't have to worry about this and they can concentrate on that more so than what the attacking players are doing or at least as much as what the attacking, it's, it's been really eye-opening and it's just further sort of put me into this mindset that what's going on in front of a goaltender matters more than anything. Well, we've talked about this on the podcast before.

We call this Steve Mason from his days in Columbus where he just fell apart because he just didn't trust anything that was happening in front of it. Right. And it was, I remember having this conversation after he left, right? Like, it got better in Philly, right? Like,

and he had actually made technical changes. He'd improved his game while he was in Columbus. But he told me after he left that it never, it didn't matter what he changed in Columbus because it was broken. It wasn't just him not trusting what was going on in front of them. They'd lost trust in him a little bit. And so he didn't trust them to do their job. They didn't necessarily trust him to do his anymore.

And pretty soon everybody's trying to do everyone else's job and nobody's doing their own. And that, when you get to that point, it's broken. And I'll never forget him saying, like, I don't think it would have mattered. It never would have fixed itself in Columbus. I needed a change of scenery. Well, that decision-making process is interesting to me because we don't necessarily think of, like we think of like the shot pass option for skaters. We don't necessarily think of how, or I don't, maybe you do,

evaluating goalies, but I don't necessarily think of like, oh, the way this goalie chose to play this, right? But it seems like watching these games, like, you see sometimes goals that are scored from like either the goal line or from like a weird angle right and i think your your natural inclination is to be like wow like the goalie just like messed that up like he really just should have stopped that and a lot of times especially with how talented the skaters are like you watch what an akita kuturab can do or something in terms of how he disguises till the last second whether he's going to do a slap pass to the slot to brayden point for a one-timer or whether it's

going to go on net or it's going to go on a tip for a clon or something like that on the power play um as a goalie if if you if you think all right there's brayton point and on my back door and I don't trust my defenseman to stop it, you might find yourself leaning off the post a little bit to try to get there because you know the prevalence of these East-West passing plays, right? And if you do that, a guy like Nikita Kutrov can see that little window and hit it easily, right? And so, and when you watch the final result of the puck going into the net, you go, how did he score from there? Like, that was such a stupid goal to give up, but there's probably like so many, there's like an environmental factor and sort of like everything that led up

to this moment that caused the goalie to make that decision. And did the last three guys that peeled out of that corner get the back door pass through when I trusted my defenseman to take it away and he didn't. And those are things that as a goaltender, you can't cheat at this level. They'll all tell you as soon as you lean one way, these guys are too good.

They're going to spot it and they're going to burn you on the short side. So your job is to not cheat, is to not sort of, is to really trust what's going on around you. But I find this is where I've always had the theory, and it's a little tougher to sort of prove out. But my theory has always been that poor defense environments have a negative cumulative effect.

And the example I was used to point to was Edmonton, you know, before Tippett got there, although they're still really mediocre defensively with him, but they were so bad before. And for years, it was like that. It was just like, you know, when the first 10 that aren't supposed to get through that lane get through, you're going to lean on the 11th. And as soon as you lean in this league, you're dead. And so it's, yeah, but the job is to not lean. The job is to play everything straight up and everything's square.

And it's easier said than done. and that's why there's only what, 64 of them. But don't you feel like the job description has changed so much in that regard because, you know, it feels like every team now is aware of the idea of like if you just have a guy holding the puck and then shooting from point A to point B at the goalie, most goalies are probably going to stop that. Straight line attacks don't work anymore. You need to open that east west and you need to go behind the net and pass it out front

to affect the goalie sight lines, right? And so it has changed the description. for goalies in terms of you can't necessarily just focus on, okay, I'm going to focus on who has the puck and I'm going to try to stop the shot because you have to account for all these other variables that are becoming increasingly prevalent, like especially not to mention now, like the increased prevalence of rush attacks and stuff, right, where like every team is trying to get out on the break and try to create these two-on-ones, three-on-twos where they can increase that lateral passing. Like, it's just so much different than it was even five or ten years ago.

Yeah, when we saw, I think it was, like the penguins opened this door with their cups. I think they were really good at preventing the lateral plays. and really emphasized score in them. I know Washington won their cup, emphasizing both things, you know, like literally taking a look at the same numbers we're looking at today and sort of not dictating how they attacked or their offense,

but encouraging it, like, to the point where they had the attention of their forwards, and the cup final was always the example I go back to against Vegas and Mark Andre Fleury, because Flower played out at the edge of the crease, and was all about holding the edge, and they just felt like if we can just, keep, you know, and you had guys like, Ovechkin passing out of two-on-ones, but if he's coming

in a straight line and that goal he's not given, like, that's a low, like, we all see that shot, but a lot recently with the Canucks too, and it's got me banging my head against the wall. It may be the only downside of Bruce Boudros shoot, shoot, shoot mentality. The amount of times they're shooting off two-on-ones and don't, everyone in the, everyone in the building is like, oh, it's a great chance because it's a two-on-one, and he's shooting from the circles. That's, that's a low percentage shot. a low percentage shot if there's no lateral element. You need to make that pass and turn a 10%

shot into a 40% shot. And some teams understand it better than others, but you're right. More and more around the league, this is the trend. It's made it harder for goaltenders. We've seen some goaltenders who had success when their teams were able to defend it. Or when it wasn't as prevalent, I look at Matt Murray when in two straight Stanley Cups with a low, wide, locked in stance, and all of a sudden everything's going east-west and he can't play that in any way anymore and he's had to change his game. Now, I still think he's going to get there in Ottawa. I don't like the way they've handled it, but look at the way he's changed his setup,

his stance and his movement patterns. It is a direct reaction to the game becoming East West and a style that won him two cups no longer being able to work against these types of attacks. Recognized employees with Customsink, show customer appreciation with Customers, Inc. Outfit your teams with Custom Ink. Easily add your logo to your favorite products and brands at customink.com. Make Custom Ink your custom gear partner with great customer service, quality products, and all in pricing, along with personalized help when you need it, and an easy-to-use website when you don't. All backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Do it all today at customink.com.

Champions aren't born. They're made. And the secret to make your business. reign supreme, Shopify, the all-on-one commerce platform to start, run, and grow your business. Forget the off-season work. Shopify makes it simple to sell to anyone from anywhere. Whether you're selling warm-ups or wall hangers, it's time to start selling with Shopify and join the platform simplifying commerce for millions of businesses worldwide. With Shopify, you'll customize your online store to your brand, discover new customers, and build the relationships that create die-hard fans. Shopify filled all the sales channels to grow a winning business from an in-person POS system to an all-in-one e-commerce platform, even across

social media platforms like TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram. Shopify is a secret to becoming a business champion by making it simple for anyone to sell their products anywhere, taking the guestwork out of selling. When you're ready to take your winning idea to the world, team up with Shopify, the commerce platform powering millions of businesses down the street and around the globe. Sign up for a free trial at Shopify.com slash bluewire, all lowercase. Go to Shopify.com slash bluewire to start selling online today. Shopify.com slash blue wire. Okay, well, so on the, on the wavelength of movement, let's talk about UCSarros,

we mentioned them earlier, who is, I've talked about a bunch in the podcast. my undisputed number one favorite goalie to watch. He transcends the position, in my opinion, in terms of, like, when I think of the best skaters in the league, McDavid, McKinnon, UC Soros, like his agility in terms of being able to go post-to-post laterally, but also come out and sort of decrease the angle very aggressively, like you were talking about Flurry,

in terms of just coming out and greeting shooters, at times, just watching him, I feel like he's exploding out so much that he's almost gonna just go flying into the boards or something because he seems to be like so out of control in terms of how he gets there quick. He's going. But he always gets,

he always gets set. I was going to say there's a power and efficiency. He gets that frame set. And then he can bounce back for a second and third effort if there's rebounds, right? And that's just, it's such an incredible viewing experience to me because like if you just watched it one time,

you'd be like, wow, this guy's all over the place. but then you do realize there is a method to the madness and a certain technique and a repeatability, I guess, of that motion. Yeah, don't confuse speed with a lack of control because he's, you know, what allows him to have the success he has is set square and patient, right? Like at that size, not moving, not overmoving. Like, it may look busy getting there, but it's actually quite efficient and it's the ability

to sort of stay there and hold there and not retreat, not sort of give that ice up, and not commit early to his knees that allows him to have that success. And it's another level that he plays at that way. I did a Zoom call with Curtis McElheny who just retired from the NHL this past summer where he was doing a video session with a bunch of goalies and with the goalie school that he's working with this called Mountain High Hockey in Colorado. And Matt Zaba runs that. And I guess they were talking about Soros on the call.

And they refer to him as the people's goalie. because like you, everybody just loves them because most of us goalies aren't going to be the size of Thatcher Demko or Jacob Marksham or Andre Vasilevsky and we're never going to be able to move

like them but Saros makes it like sort of like makes the... Well, you're not going to move like using Saras. No, but it gives you it gives you hope for the little guy because you know like you know what I mean? Like it just it sort of it provides hope to everyone else that I don't need to be six foot five to play in the national hockey league if I can move

if I could skate like that. I will say though, like, can you watch some of these, especially the national broadcasts that maybe haven't shown a Predator's game in a while? Like, obviously, the natural thing is going to be like, well, these guy's so small. Like, what an anomaly. And then they just kind of gravitate on that, right? And they make it seem like this kind of cool story.

And I guess it is, in a sense. But I think that almost does a disservice to how legitimately good he's been. That's fair. I pull this up. Since it's basically a full calendar year now of hockey, He started like taking the crease. He was splitting it sort of 50-50 with Pecoranay last year for the first like month or two. And then from February 26th on, so 11 months now, he's played 62 games, which is one behind Connor Hellebuck for the league lead to show you how much they've been leaning on them, especially for a goalie that had never really played more than like 35 or 40 games in the season.

943, 5-1-5 say percentage, which is the best in the league. 9-34, all-situation say percentage was the best in the league. 868 high danger save percentage, which is the best in the league, and plus 31 goals save above expected. And I think, if anything, from what I've seen, like you mentioned that he's clawed back to almost catch Shisterkin. I've seen other private models that even have him at number one. So the public models, if anything, are kind of doing a discrediting how good he's been, because I think he's a bit below in terms of the public stuff that we have. But, I mean, you talk about value to a team and sort of his.

ability to play this way consistently and erase a lot of high danger attempts is remarkable to me. So I think it's transcended going from, all right, he's really fun to watch and he's a cool goalie to he's full stop, one of the three to best five goalies in the world. And that's the way we need to frame and not, oh, what a fun story about this little guy. Like, no, he's, he's awesome. Yeah, and he's kind of changing how, you know, like, we're seeing this trend back towards like for the longest time. think it's probably still true of a lot of teams. Like, scouts not allowed to file a report on a guy who's under six foot two for certain teams.

I know that's the case with some organizations. I can even file a report if your goal is not six foot two. And we're seeing guys have six. Like Jonathan Bernier has had a hell of a career. I know he's hurt right now. And the year in New Jersey hasn't gone the way everybody hoped. I mean, maybe look at the coaching choice and how teams tend to not defend for Lindy.

But, like, had a remarkable. career and I've had this conversation with him like he doesn't even, he's the same size as UC yeah, he doesn't even get drafted by today's standards. He probably, do you think he probably doesn't get drafted? Look at the career he's at. Look at UC Saros. Like imagine

being the team that just would not take a scouting report on UC Saros. I think it's, we've seen other guys get opportunities now without being, you're always going to get more opportunity at 64, 65, we're going to get more chances to fail, but we're seeing other guys get an opportunity more

often, I think, at this size. I look at it like there's an ideal I think for goalitenders it might be six two it might be six three and I had a goalie coach say to me either side of that ideal becomes something you have to overcome so if I'm two inches or three inches taller than six three at six six six I have to overcome the fact that when I move I open up a lot of holes yeah or that when I'm in my post play the gap between my skate and my hips when my skate is on my post is so big do I have the mobility to lean into that post from that distance. If I'm six foot, it's all about I don't have the square footage.

So I better be able to beat everything on my skates and be set and be square and be patient and all those things. So I think there's more guys at least getting consideration and getting a shot. And I think they can thank Uzi Soros. Because to be a team that wouldn't have even considered him now when you talk about him in those terms should make you think twice. Oh, well, you're missing out on, of course. Yeah, let's tie all these concepts together then because we're talking about the

defensive environment, the effect it has on goalies the decision-making. And the podcast that I did with the Belfry earlier that we mentioned. So he brought up this concept of what percentage of goals in today's NHL are scored within two seconds of being on the shooter stick in terms of they get the puck and it's off their stick and into the back of the net. And that's the most likely way you're going to score as opposed to if you're holding the puck and the defense and the goalie. can set and it can know that you're shooting right and so we typically think of when we're

constructing or thinking about theoretical expected goals models and sort of evaluating goalie play you know we think about pre-shot movement and like going lateral or what the goalie has to do to account for the past right but I think what we don't do enough uh or don't put enough stock in or maybe don't think about enough is that time and space element of what the defenders are giving the shooter and I bring that up to talk about the hurricanes, and I want to talk about Freddie Anderson and his numbers and his season. And I believe you and I, the last time we spoke, we did a full podcast just before our free agency and we were talking, because we had already found out they were

moving on for Ndilkevich. We didn't know that they were going to bring in Ranta and Anderson, but it was clear they were going to make changes in that, right? And the results have been through the roof so far for Anderson. I think he's got like a 926 or something. The public models have him as either the, I think the second or third highest goalie in terms of will save a lot of expected. And I don't want to diminish how good he's been because he's clearly been fantastic. I think most importantly, he looks healthy. Like, I think he was worn out and not himself physically towards the end of his tenure in Toronto.

And it's nice to see that he's back to being the goalie that we've come to know him to be. But if you look at the public models, I believe Natural Static has the Hurricanes as giving up the seventh most expected goals against it five-on-five and 13th across all situations, right? And I think you told me a fun stat about the breakaways they give up in terms of what clear site analytics is telling you. The shots they're giving up might be, you know, if you look at on the map, it's like, all right, they gave up a shot, the hurricanes gave up a shot from here,

and we assign an expected goal value to it, and Freddie Anderson made the stop, and we denoted it as a very valuable save. But what doesn't jive with me is when you watch the hurricane, we think about their reputation defensively, but when you watch them play, like they're so aggressive in terms of how they pursue the puck as a team that I do believe there's an element that we're not necessarily fully calibrating for in terms of how little time in the offensive zone opposing teams have

to make their decisions in terms of shot pass than make it easier for Freddie Anders and because he knows that the best player on the other team isn't going to have 2.5 seconds to make a decision with a puck on their stick, they're going to be rushed and he's going to be able to just know that, all right, this is where the play is going. So that's a long way of saying, Freddie Anderson's been really good,

but I think the hurricanes are better defensively than we're giving them credit for. And I think that is slightly inflating the goal save above expected model that he currently has. What do you think about that? Well, I mean, the one, One thing that's not accounted for here is defensive pressure, right? Like in terms of the models, I'm looking at it with clear sight.

So the fact that you're under pressure and you don't have time to make a decision or to pick a spot or whatever, that's not accounted for in here. But one of the whole premises of the reason it's called clear sight, and to go back to Belfreys, what he told you about getting it off the stick quickly, like everything changes, and I believe it is 0.3 of a seconds that they have here in terms of, if a goalie has clear sight on a puck for that length of time, the expectation of a save goes up significantly versus something that's often on a stick.

And I mean, we've seen it. Like one second in the NHL is the difference from a play at the blue line to a play is already at the bottom of the circles, like off the rush. So the speed with which the game moves. So it's sort of accounted for in a way there because, but the defensive pressure doesn't get at. At the end of the day, in this model, Freddie's still having an excellent season.

Of course, yeah. But we're top 10 than top three. But he's ninth, yeah. Like he grades out around 8th or 9th. Ninth in goal saved, eighth in save percentage above expected. But even in the save percentage above expected, what we can look at is, where is that expected? Right. Like, his expected is 896.

Jordan Bennington's is 871 right now. Like, that's a 25 point difference in expected save percentage. Like, that's how much sort of easier the environment is. Now, again, Freddie Anderson's outperforming it at a. significant level, but just as bad defensive environments can become cumulative. Yeah. Because you're waiting for the mistakes. You're waiting for the plays.

The scene passes to get through that shouldn't. I think good defensive environments can build confidence. And so, you know, 896 expected. I'm looking just sort of quickly, like, it's about 10th. That's the 10th easiest quote unquote environment in the league right now. You know, it's up there. Look at it with names like Jack Campbell. and Brayden Hopi and Jake Ottinger have had really nice, you know,

goalie-friendly environments in Dallas this year. Dan Vlodar and, you know, quite sort of insulated in Calgary and his starts. So, again, like, but that's the beauty of this. Like, we're measuring his performance relative to that. Yes. But it still becomes hard to compare the accumulative effect of playing behind that, which I, like you said, anecdotally should breed confidence versus, say, Jordan Binnington and St. Louis,

where things are brinked. breaking down far more regularly and what, you know, the Edmonton example I always use, right? Like when 10 straight get through the seam that's not supposed to get through, you start to lean towards the guy on the other side eventually. Well, the thing that got me thinking about this, I think you actually mentioned it earlier as well in passing, but, you know, Belfrey was saying that, because I brought off the point of like my one concern when I see sorrows, especially like in the playoff setting last year where the hurricanes clearly got to prepare for them and did a lot of pre-scouting and then

we're like trying to execute their game plan over a seven-game series was how, aggressively they were targeting the top of the net on him when he'd go down, acknowledging that they might be able to score a goal on him that would otherwise just hit Andrea Basilevsky and the chess protector because of the size difference, right? And he was saying that there's also an element of the defensive stick in terms of the decision-making process of what you as a shooter are going to do in terms of your placement based on exactly that concept of time and space and sort of where the sticks are in the lanes and stuff. And watching this hurricanes team, it is anecdotal, but there's no way that the senators and

Blackhawks are better, stingier defensive teams than they are compared to these public models. And I think that element of the defensive pressure in terms of the sticks and sort of what they're allowing in zone isn't being accounted for properly. Now, with that said, and you brought this up earlier in terms of, I guess before we were on there of how some of the best teams that we think of are giving up, you know, breakaways and stuff like that. And that's where I think that might affect the expected goal models, because all that pressure up ice creates odd man rushes and breakways and that's where that'll pump up your expected goal models. But when it's in the end zone, you're right. Those factors you talk

about the sticks, like they're not measured. And just like we're never going to see, like there's only so much we can do, right? Like I, this data to me is the most robust stuff that I've seen. I trust it, but it can't tell me that the defensiveness was supposed to have his stick here. The best example actually is on the PK, and we've seen this a lot in Vancouver, so it's fresh in my mind, where when a goaltender has to pick a side on a screen and you've got a center screen, the goalie, like this is a system thing. Goalie is going to default to the short side of that screen to find his, first your priorities to find eyes wherever you can.

but if you've got to pick a side, middle short side, you're going to go short side for a couple of reasons. The puck reaches, like if you draw a straight line between a puck and the short, the two posts, the one to the far post is a lot further distance. So it's going to get, it can beat you on the short side in a quicker, shorter path. So we're going to hold that short side looking for ice.

The second part in the system, like, for example, in Vancouver on the PK, the defenseman that flexes out on that shooter, his responsibilities to be in the short side lane. And his responsibility, if at all possible, to block the short side lane. So we're watching in Vancouver where, you know, that doesn't get accounted for in models and you get these shots that look like they're from distance.

And yeah, they're screened. They go in, but within the system, that's not really on the goalie. It's on the fact they got a whole bunch of defensemen that don't like to block shots in Vancouver. Among the ones that can even figure out where they're supposed to be in the lane, some of them aren't even in the right lane.

no model is ever going to account for that. We're not going to see that, yeah, you know, it looked bad because it went far side and it looked like it was from distance. But everything in the system said the goalie was where he was supposed to be, he took care of his job and trusted somebody else to do theirs and they didn't. And so, and just like the pressure on the stick, those are things that are always, I think, even in, even in something that's tracked, you know, individually and not using sort of AI or computer or anything like that. And as carefully as ClearSight, I still don't think you account for that, right? I don't know that we ever will. Right.

Yeah, there's also, you know, not just thinking about it like a team like the hurricanes, they play at such a sort of frenetic pace, right? And when you play like that and you're pushing the envelope and you're that aggressive, of course, you're going to give stuff back. There's no mistakes. You're pressing in the offensive zone.

There's more events in general. So, of course, you need to factor that in. But I just, I think obviously it's a good tradeoff because you're banking on the fact that we're going to, as long as we don't, don't completely leave our goalie out to dry, and Freddie Anderson has been good, we have more talent than the other team. We're going to outscore them. Yeah, and the difference would be they're actually creating high expected goals now,

whereas in the past in the Bill Peters years. Yeah, it was a lot of volume, but from far out, yeah. And the goalies used to drive them nuts. So they'd be like, they'd talk to you after the games, and they'd be like, every night, I watch us warm up the other goalie for five minutes before I see a shot. And we call them 99 percenters. And there are still coaches around the league. Pucks on that, pucks on that. Listen, man, If it's an unscreen shot from the point and you don't have traffic and you don't have guys. Like you think a goalie's putting that right back in the slot for you? No, man, they're controlling that.

They're putting it on a teammate stick to lead a breakout or they're putting it into the glass or into the netting to get a face off. Like it just, and all you're doing is making them feel good. That's my favorite. There's my pet peeve for you. When you got a goalie, we've seen it quite a bit this year because of COVID and guys being out for a week or whatever. And so a goalie hasn't played in a while, right? And what do we always hear? Oh, a goalie hasn't played in a while or it's a new goalie.

Yeah, pucks on net, puck's on net. If I'm that new goalie, I'm like, if you guys want to throw a whole bunch of crap from the point and just let me feel it a little bit, and let me get some easy saves to feel good about myself, by all means, pucks on net. I'd prefer to make a goalie's, like, difficult early and make them find that puck through a bunch of moving bodies and traffic.

And I think the car, I hate to single them out, but hurricanes, to me, for years, they're not anymore, but for years, they were the perfect example of the team that created a whole bunch of possession and a whole bunch of shots and a whole bunch of good shot metrics, but didn't actually create enough goals and let their goalie sit there and wait and wait and wait

and then boom, two on one because of all the aggression, because of all the control. You make a mistake, it's an odd man rush. You haven't seen a puck in five minutes. The other guy's running a 975, say percentage in Euro for one, down one-nothing. Yeah. Well, you know, switching gears here a little bit, but you mentioned Husser earlier,

and we can talk about him here. I think there's a lot of valuable information to be learned from, how betting markets treat situations in terms of startupers backup or when a team has two goalies that are playing differently or maybe have different reputations, right? And I remember last year, smart betters were just actively hammering whoever was playing the blues.

They were favoring them. The second they would find out that Villi Huso was the first goalie off in the morning skate and that he was starting that night's game. And they were very profitable because he was not good. Now, obviously he's been significantly better this year. And I think also you need to acknowledge, I believe last year was his first year in the NHL after a couple years, just sitting, waiting for his time in the HL.

At one point, weird year, too. He was the guy in St. Louis in terms of the next guy, right? And then Jordan Benton kind of came out of nowhere and stole his shine and won the cup and got a big contract. But whoso was the guy before that. He's similar, not similar frame-wise to Saros, but similar results-wise where he dominated the Liga, he came over to the HL, he posted great results there.

The NHL is a different animal, but generally if you do well in lower professional leagues, you will probably have a good chance of repeating that in the NHL. And so people were high on him, and obviously it took a while. He's 26 years old now. But it's been crazy. It is only 13 games, I believe.

Let's not blow this out of proportion. He's almost at 20 goals saved in 13 games. I understand. The numbers are off the chart. It is 13 games. I've been covering this league long enough to know that 13 games does not make a goalie. So you want to know what the flip side. This is the other side.

This is where it gets fascinating. Because they obviously came through town here and Villy started his third in a row. Yeah. And played very well that night. Played very well. Again, listen, I would argue that when your best two chances for the Canucks are breakaways, breakways are good. When it's Jason Dickinson because he's your best option because J.T. Miller,

Bo Horvatt, and Connor Garland are all out of the. lineup with COVID and it's Jason Dickinson getting your best chances. That's probably a good night for the goalie. He was really good. They created a ton and they didn't finish it and a big part of that was Villahuso. So he's been incredible. But when I tweeted that he was starting for the third. I was a little surprised they're going with him three straight.

And he was coming off a shoutout against Seattle. So, but again, Seattle. Right. You know, offensively challenged teams despite what they did to Florida recently. I was a little surprised. I don't know if I put that tone in my tweet or not, but my God, people in St. Louis reacted.

Like, Jordan Bennington is trash, and they just, like, just ham. Like, it was just this hatred. And it's from his own market. Right. Because somebody in that market had retweeted, you know, because I was the only one live watching

sort of first off morning skate thing. And as good as whoso has been, that narrative and that dynamic is kind of throwing me for a loop. And I had a little tweet. thread this week. Hussaud's numbers we talked to are like off the charts, even better than Chish Derrickin in a very small sample

on a, you know, say percentage differential. But Jordan Bennington, no slouch. Like, he was seventh in adjusted save percentage. Seventh. And they're hammering him. Like, this is the part that gets lost in this. Like, Vili Hussaudsau is playing well, and he's out playing Jordan Binnington right now.

But Jordan Binnigton is not hot. garbage. And part of that is he has an 8-71 expected say percentage. The only guy with the lower one in the league is Eunice Corpusallo in Columbus. Like, that is a, they are no longer the team that won the cup defensively, not even close. They're one of the worst teams that we have defensively. And for whatever reason, the narrative ever since Bittington won the cup has been one hit wonder, but the advanced numbers say that he's actually been really good behind a team that the true narrative is they're no longer, they're this great defensive team. That's the one that's wrong. Well, at 5-1-5, only the

Blue Jackets concede higher expected goals against even by the public models. So, yeah, I think people... Yeah, they're, you know, the blue jackets and the chances that matter, the high-danger ones, the only Blue Jackets in Montreal are worse. After giving up 62 shots last night, that probably inflate,

yeah, but St. Louis is the bottom three defensive team, no matter how you measure it. No, and honestly, as a goalie, you might not like this, it's a net positive, because I think people, people still think of the blues as this sort of slow it down defensive team when in reality on the fly they've completely turned the car keys over to Jordan Kairu Robert Thomas and they added Buchenovic and their high event and

and sod right yeah and they've completely modernized their team and I think for the better like they're more fun to watch they have a higher upside I believe but it's an entirely different defensive environment for their goalies now now but here's the one catch about them being better that way like they're fun and they're more injured I just said funner. They're funner. Good job, journalists. I think they're funner.

They're funner to watch. I think they are. Can we edit that? Listen, they are more enjoyable to watch for sure. The one caveat I'll throw at you is the statistic that has lent itself the most to playoff success over the past three years has been high danger five on five expected goals against. Right. And the fact that they're in the bottom of that, if they were to, like even the year they won the cup, they were one of the top teams. Tampa was the year they got knocked out in the first.

first round was 20th, the next year they were first, and they won their first cup. Like, that, as much as they, you're right, it's leading to more success and it's certainly more enjoyable to watch, even if it's tougher on the goaltenders. History says that doesn't work in the playoffs. So I'm kind of curious, maybe they can buck that trend. Maybe we're seeing the trend change. Only one team can win the cup. And I think, I think for the blues, having already won the cup, not that they're entering

any season being like, all right, well, we won our cup, we're good. But I think having a fun product in an entertainment business, you could do a lot of words. Like, there's a lot of teams that aren't going to win a cup and also are not fun to watch. Okay, I'll give you, I will give you that one. Even as the goaltender, it's probably not fun to play behind this team. Because, listen, who so is 12 points easier his save? But it's still the 10th lowest.

Okay, well, we need to answer this once or for all. Because watching these broadcasts, the number of times I hear someone say, oh, this goalie hasn't seen a shot in a long time. Like, I'm worried about them for their next shot. As a goalie, is that an actual thing? Like, I understand there's probably going to be differences. certain goalies are going to prefer different stuff in terms of workload. But some goalies can't play in low-shot environments.

Some goalies just, you know, and maybe the fact, maybe the fact that I go back to an example this old tells us that it's changed and maybe I should shift my thinking. But the easiest, the one that jumps out the most was always Curtis, Joseph, right? Like throw him in Edmonton behind 70 shots and he stood on his head. Sign him in Detroit where the expectations were high to win a cup and you didn't have to be busy and he wasn't the same goaltender. And so it's an extreme example.

But, you know, we saw it with Peca Rini in his career after La Vialette went there, and they became a sort of lower event team. As much as we think of trots as this defensive coach, his goalie stayed busy there. And I think probably is more because the personnel wasn't good for long stretches. And for Peca, it was a real struggle. Now, whether it affects every goal, it doesn't affect every goal the same way, but in his mind, it was a struggle. And the way he adjusted to it was to play the crap out of the puck.

Like, that was, I can't, I don't feel engaged in the game. He's an active goaltender who moved a lot, played a very active style for such a big guy. So his solution was, I'm going to get myself engaged by handling everything. And he became, like, phenomenal. And, like, goalies, I once did a story on, like, you know, one of those fun Christmas stories. Like, if you could put one skill set under the tree from another goaltender and add it to your game, what would it be? And Devin Dubnick says, I would like to be able to knock down rims behind the net like Peck or Renee. Like, Pecks would literally slide in a butterfly into the boards and crash in to, like, stop pucks.

just to keep himself engaged. And I share that story because for him not being engaged and not being busy was a problem to the point where he went to that extreme to solve it. Now it paid off in an empty net goal late in his career because he doesn't get out and stop that. Most guys don't and he scores. So it really is an individual thing. It's not a good thing.

Like if you are a goaltender who for five minutes it plays in the other end and you're thinking, oh man, like that guy's stopping all these shots, I better stop the next one. if your mind is going there, you probably don't have the strongest mind. You probably need to work with a sports psychologist because that's not what you want. But I'd be lying if there aren't guys whose minds do go there. Even Thatcher Demko. Like, he used to be busy all the time here in Vancouver. They still give up a lot of quality, but now they spend more time in the other end.

They're pressing, pressing through the neutral zone, forcing turnovers. There are long stretches where he doesn't see a shot. And he's adjusted to it pretty well. But as he said, like, it's a different vibe. It takes a different thought process. Jacob Markstrom hammered in Vancouver with shots. He goes to Calgary, first year under Daryl Sutter,

especially after the coaching change, he's not busy anymore. He's adjusted, but that's the first time in his career. He wasn't getting shot after shot after shot. It takes time. It's interesting that you bring up Markstrom because, so when you watch him play, to my entry and I, like, when he's economical and understated,

with his movements, he's, I have the most supreme confidence that he's going to stop the puck. Like, he's a brick wall. But when he starts acting, acting wild in terms of, like, just coming out of the net and trying to play the puck, like, near the blue line and trying to involve himself in those plays, like, we've heard that that's typically a sign that he's, like, you know, overworked or fatigued or what have you. And he's kind of trying to compensate, ironically enough, by expending more energy.

Yeah, that one doesn't make a lot of sense to me. but but it makes sense in the sense that when you're tired your discipline maybe decreases a little bit and that's what I see with him where like when he's going similar with him motion to Eric and always he different goalie but like he makes the saves look so easy like it's very just like calm and controlled but then when he starts like flying around I'm like oh this is well Marksham's got like Marksham's had like

there's an almost violence to his movements like he's so fast but he's so big like the whole key to him the big thing I got a two pad stack yes last night He throws those out. That's what I love about Jacob. He's got some different looks and he's not afraid to go outside the box, especially as a big guy. And that's always been a strength of his game.

But early in his career, he was way too active for a big guy. And so he opened holes. He, you know, he beats plays with early eyes and with really fast movement when he's at his best. And it can look busy at times. But the whole key is that he's getting the early and ahead so he can assess. Like it fuels the, It almost looks, like I said, almost violent. Same with Demco.

Like they move so, like there's so much power, but they get to their spots ahead of everything. That's their priority. And it allows them to see things early and then sort out where it's going next. And for both of them, it's kind of fuels. Like, it's not, Saros looks controlled compared to those guys. Like I said, violence is the word I keep going to

because it's just, it's powerful. It stops. It's controlled, but it's just like so, like, explosive. bang bang bang bang next spot and but it's all about beating plays beating pucks and being able to assess the next one because you're never behind on a play and so i think there are elements of jacob's game that's you know outside of handling pucks and getting outside the crease that's a different thing but i think there is always going to be a part of jacob's game that's going to look a little bit busy even when he's at his best well you know before the year uh my favorite bets were basically

all flames defensive bets. Like Markstrom's line, I believe, was like 9-10 for a save percentage. I was like, I don't see any plausible scenario where Jacob Markstrom has a save percentage below 9-10. Hammer the over. His Vesna odds were 25 to 1. He's probably not going to win it just because

Shisterkin and Saros is so good. How much action you got on that? We can start pumping that. I mean, I don't know. I'm kidding, folks, kidding. I don't have a vote, so it's fine. But even Daryl Sutter, 40 to 1 Jack Adams. I was like, people are wildly underrated. I guess they're sort of just kind of this blah team and their season ended in such

a unceremonious manner. They were playing those like random games against the Canucks, the makeup games while playoff games were happening. Hey, listen, I had to cover those games. So yes, that was very unceremonious. But I was like, man, this is like, and at least the league with six shutouts as an awesome, save percentage.

Underlying numbers are well, are good too. But obviously the environment is leading a lot of that. Well, no, listen, like that, okay, so we say about environment because it's Daryl Sutter, but like, you know, we talked earlier about, um, about, um, sorry, some of the more difficult ones around the league. And we talked about how Shisterkin, how it feels like he has to carry them.

And again, he's outperforming's environment at a higher rate than Jacob Markstrom. But Igor Shisterken's expected say percentage is 891. UC Soros is 891. Jacob Markstrom is 890. So he's not as insulated. Like Dan Vlodar is. Dan Vlodar is got one of the highest expected say percentages in the league. Right.

But Jacob Markstrom overall, like, you know, he's not. right in that group where we'd expect them. Vasilevsky 890, Sorokin 890 and behind a trots team. So, you know, none of these guys is benefiting exclusively from this really easy defensive environment. I don't know here about John Gibson. We didn't necessarily talk about him.

I think he's interesting because we've spent, if you compare his numbers the past two years, to how many times you and I have spoken about him on this podcast and how he's been regarded, there was obviously a mismatch. But just watching him this year makes me feel good about the working theory we had of the soul-crushing environment he was in

in terms of like he'd start the years amazingly for the first 10, 15 games. And then as it went along, you'd like see the hope just sucked out of his eyes. Or I was like, all right, this year's not going anywhere. And then his numbers would come down to like a 900 save percentage. And this year, the two games he played recently,

one at home against Tampa Bay when they won, and then won last night against Toronto. on a win. They lost in shootouts, yeah. But the level of swaggy has is incredible to me. And the fact that the results are now more in line with that level of confidence is good, obviously. But like, he made the save on a two on oh, basically in the three on three overtime. Is it the glove set? He did the windmill save and then in one motion, flicked it on a breakout. He's got some swag. And it was like, come on. Like, like, 99% of goalies would obviously highlight like the Flurry style. Would highlight. the windmill save, but then they'd like contort their body and hold on to it for a whistle. The fact that he was like, he just like disgustedly, he's like, get this garbage out of here. Well, and go score at the other end, guys, because that's what's changed, right? Like, yeah, some tough nights defensively over the past couple of years, but like, you know, and this is where these things matter, right?

Like, we talk about not being busy, like how it affects a goaltender mentally. Of course, it's not supposed to, right? Like being a bad defensive team and 10 straight through the seam and not change. cheating. Like, you're not supposed to cheat on the 11th, right? Like mentally, you're supposed to stick with that shooter. Not seeing a shot for five minutes. It's not supposed to affect you negatively mentally.

Playing behind a team that can't score for you at the other end. Well, it's just a margin of there. You know if you give up two goals, you're done. They had none. There were nights where if they gave up one, they were done. Him and Ryan Miller the last couple of years. And I really believe that that war on him. So, I don't think it's a coincidence. Like, yeah, the defensive environment is a little, has

improved. His performance, relative to it has improved. You know, he's flirting with the top 10 in adjusted say percentage just outside it right now. But just the fact you have a chance that it can all be for something because you don't have to be perfect. You know, like one isn't one too many anymore for them. Like I think that's probably freed him up mentally as much as anything. And they're a fun team to watch right now too.

They are. They are. All right. Let's put a pin in it. We'll save some of the other topics that I have here. We could probably do another full hour. But we're going to save it for the next time. We have you in the P.D.O.

podcast plug some stuff um where can people check you out what are you working on uh ingolmag com is the best one i mean i do have a biweekly column at um nchl dot com we've we've taken the unmask goalie column to every second week um just access is harder right now so i don't i can't go into the room and just have the off-the-cuff conversations that sparked those ideas like i used to so we're doing that every second week but so check that out um but beyond that mostly ingolemag dot com is where i would suggest people go if you're not a goalie You'll learn something about goaltending. We are a subscription site.

We do have some free stuff up there. But if you're a goalie, like, we'll make you better. I don't care if you're a 10-year-old, junior goalie, beer leag. I get notes from professional goalies, you know, right up to the NHL, guys overseas that are learning things from IngoLMag and IngoLMag.com. We have drills with NHL goalies and NHL goalie coaches walking you through the purpose of them. the why of the drill, not just showing you drills from practices. The pro reads is our weekly staple.

If you're an annual subscriber, you get access to the entire archive. So that's over 100 one-on-one video sessions with NHL goalies explaining how they look at certain situations, how they read a PK, how they read a play coming out of the corner, what they're looking for in a two-on-one. We had one with Nadelcovic recently. What he's looking for in a two-on-o? Like, yeah, hey, for a beer leaguer, you need to know how to start. stop the two on O and Ned will help you do that. And then, you know, if you want just the free content,

every week we have the Ingo Radio podcast. I had a fantastic 40-minute interview with Peca Renee recently. I had of his jersey retirement next month. You know, we don't, it's really goalie geeky stuff. So again, if you're not a goalie, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you're a goalie, like Peca talking about his glove hand and the roots of it and what he learned from UC Soros, how a guy who is six foot five learn to play different

because he was watching UC Soros at, what's he listed at 511, but let's be honest, 510, taking less ice than Peca was at 6'5. So we get into some of the minutiae, the gear, stuff like that,

but we do it frankly at a level that nobody else does. So if you're a goal, check it out ingolemag.com. Listen, don't legally hold me to this, but subscribe and Kevin will help turn you into UC Sorrows. If anybody's ever seen me play,

I swear to God, Demetia, every time I come on, because I have a couple local radio hits, and they introduce me as the goalie whisperer or the goalie guru, and my phone just lights up with people from my beer league saying, you never sold you last night.

You suck. Do as I say, not as I do, right? All right, before we get out of here, please go rate and review the PDOCast, wherever you listen to it, listen to the recent shows, like the one I mentioned with Daryl. Subscribe to EPRingside.

I just put out a mega feature on Devon Taves there. and the success he's had in Colorado and his contributions, which go off and overlooked. And we'll be back soon on this feed with more shows. So Kevin, you will certainly be back on the PDOCAST, so I'm not even going to say we need to have you back on because it's a given. One of my favorite, one of my favorite shows to do and to listen to. So make sure, especially that Belfrey episode, highly recommend for everyone.

Thanks for having me on, Dimitri. Cheers back. The Hockey PDOcast with Dimitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich. SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey pdocast.