The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 43: Singing The Blues

Episode Date: December 30, 2015

Craig Custance, who was a Friend Of The Podcast well before it was cool to be one, makes his triumphant return to the show. We adopt the St.Louis Blues, who are approaching a fascinating crossroads with regards to balancing making a run this season while keeping an eye on the future financially. We also discuss the compelling case Cory Schneider is making to be be Team USA's number one goal at the World Cup, whether Braden Holtby could conceivably sneak into the Hart Trophy debate, and the general glut of high-end talent between the pipes at the NHL level these days. Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show (www.hockeypdocast.com/donate). There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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It's Craig Custin's. Craig, what's going on, man? Oh, nothing. Congratulations on the huge success. Well, you're a big part of it. This is your third appearance on it, and you're the only person that can lay claim. I feel like we need to get you some, like, personalized intro music at this point. I think I'd be into that. Or at the very least, like, the, you do with Saturday Night, we should have, like, jackets.

If I get up fifth appearance, I could be like, like, I'd be like, Steve Martin and have a cigar in the back room with my maroon coat on. Yeah. Well, if this podcast approaches Saturday Night Live levels, we'll consider that. But for now, we'll just, yeah, we'll go with the nice words. Anyways, I'm happy to have you on because you've written about a few interesting things that I figured we could talk about on today's show. And let's start off with this idea of Corey Schneider potentially kind of laying claim to being

team USA's goalie at the World Cup. And I kind of understand that some listeners might be like, why are these guys talking about the World Cup? That's so far away. There's so much season left to kind of process who should be on that team and whatnot. But I think it's an interesting debate purely because for a while there just sort of seemed like Jonathan Quick would be the guy. I mean, his GM in L.A. is running that team.

And it makes sense that with all sort of just the way he's thought about as this kind of big game goalie who stepped it up in the playoffs and has all this. all this postseason success when it matters that he would be their guy. But I don't know, you made an interesting argument that kind of maybe we should recalibrate and Corey Schneider should be that guy instead. Yeah, well, I mean, I wrote it now for a couple of reasons. One, it's a way, doing a story this way is kind of an entry point just to have an examination of season guys are having, right, other than just to write a typical, you know,

Corey Schneider's been really good. Here's a thousand words about it. it's just a way to kind of package it in another format so people can examine the year Corey's having why he's had the success he's had in New Jersey and then what it means kind of if you pan out to the big picture and then the other thing is the World Cup is the ESPN property so I can't write enough about it in my building up the momentum going in the next year so yeah so Corey I had a conversation with him right before Christmas the Christmas break and really was kind of

what I wanted to get at with him was just the value in his consistency and and just have because when you talk to managers or you know kind of people putting teams together and attacking the goaltender position but the one thing we'll say you know I think the goalie is voodoo

I had an assistant GM used that phrase for the first time like I thought that was only a Twitter and analytic thing and he kind of said it and laughed and said, you know, I guess we're realizing this. But, you know, one thing those guys will point out is you'd rather have a guy, you know, you don't necessarily want a guy who gets hot and has these great games, but then it's also, you know, can go cold and it's all over the board. Ideally, you have that goaltender that's posting a 9-20, you know, month in and month out,

or 9-25 or whatever. And then looking at Corey Schneider and going month by month since he's joined the devil, he's, I think I'm remembering the number, right, he's only been under the league average in three months, which is 915, and above it 12 months and really way above it with a 924, save percentage with New Jersey. And it's just that consistency. And Corey credited two things. One, he said, it's his style of play. And it came from kind of being groomed as a backup in Vancouver. He said, you really couldn't be, you know, a rhythm goalie and scrambling and coming in on coming in,

cold, right? He had to find a style that suited being a backup and could be easily repeatable and consistent so that if he jumped into a game, he was able to perform well. And it served, and then I asked him so naturally, the follow-up is so did he change once he became a starter and he got this heavy workload in New Jersey. And he said, not at all. So he said that kind of that style that he developed in Vancouver has served him well as a starter. And then the other thing he said is, you know, New Jersey's kind of always been a good system team. And he credited a lot of what John Hines has done and before him, Pete DeBore, and that he knew what to expect of the team in front of him.

I think that's pretty valuable. We've seen it, it seems like Edmonton in the past, or some, that these goalies, even Dallas last year, I think, I really heard Kari Letton, where he just didn't know what the team was going to perform like in front of them systematically. And so then you start cheating a little bit, and when you start cheating, it looks like you're giving up this bad goal, like short side, when really you're kind of anticipating. something that maybe isn't going to happen and it gets ugly. And so those two factors that led to Corey Schneider being really consistent and consistent

on the team that isn't great. So you don't hear a lot about Corey Schneider in that conversation. So that was a long way of saying that was the genesis for the story. Go ahead. Well, it's also one of those things that, I don't know, it's an interesting debate just purely because he's pretty much the exact opposite of Jonathan Quick, right? Like, as you said, his hallmark is this consistency and he's not necessarily, or really flashy, even though he is a very athletic guy and he makes remarkable saves that

kind of drop your jaws, just like Jonathan Quick does. But maybe he doesn't do them like as frequently or as evidently just on the eye test. But like he just consistently is just remarkably efficient and effective. And he hasn't had that playoff success and he plays in New Jersey on a team that people don't really necessarily talk about that much unless it's the hockey pediocas where we talk about them pretty much all the time. But it's just like, I don't know, he, he, he, he, he's a remarkable goalie and it's fascinating to see people sort of start to finally come around to that much slower than it probably should have taken like wake me up when he doesn't have a 920% in a given season.

Right. It's pretty much a lock at this point and he's sort of in that prime of his career right now and it's kind of fascinating. I think that personally for me he's kind of cemented himself in that top tier of there's four guys for me. It's Price, Holte, B, Lundquist and then Schneider in any given order depending on where we're at in that week or month or whatnot. But I think those four guys are sort of head and shoulders above everyone else for me. Like how, just in terms of the NHL hierarchy, like where, how do you feel about Schneider

against some of those other best guys? Well, I mean, and so that becomes, that's what makes this debate with Quick. Interesting because Jonathan Quick's not in that equation for you. And I don't, and I think that's fair. I mean, we're talking about a guy with a stay percentage over his career of 916. And so now it comes down to, if we're going back to the world, cop framing it in the international tournament, do you want this guy that's won cups who can make the big save

and maybe star in a very short small tournament? But, you know, over the course of we stretch it out a little bit longer, isn't as consistent as the other guy, or do you want a guy that you just know what you're going to get night at night out? And, you know, I don't know. That's a tough call because if you're the Americans, maybe you feel like you need a guy that can steal a game if you're playing Canada, and I guess

that's how you get to look at how your team is built. But in terms of the league, I think Corey Schneider's probably on that cusp of maybe just below the guys like, you know, you carry price for sure. I think Holbeath definitely is in that conversation, and then Longquist, I think those to me

are the big three, and then maybe Schneider, a hair below that. Well, that's a good... I still put Tuka Raps. I don't know two Tuka Rass necessarily, but I think he rounds out that top five. along courses. Yeah, I would put him in that conversation. Yeah, no, he's amazing. What about Peckin René? Like, what do you do with Pecker René? Yeah. He hasn't been that great this year. Yeah, he hasn't. And I know some people that are sort of kind of a little bit skeptical of him and the situation that he plays in,

maybe making him look a little better than he actually is. But I don't know, he's like a perfectly fine goalie, and I think it just speaks. Like, we could go on and on here for a while, right? Like when Travis and I were doing our mid-season awards podcast and we were talking about the Vesna, and we're like, well, a guy like Corey Crawford is kind of quietly having this amazing season that no one really talks about because Chicago has all this forward talent and guys like Duncan Keith and whatnot, but he's probably been their second best player this season. And then like Ben Bishop's been Tampa Bay's best player this year. And you just go on and on down the line and there's like 15 guys. You could say like, is this guy sort of vaguely in that top five to ten conversation? And it's just, I don't know, there's such a glut of of goaltending talent. And I guess that's, uh, it's people that want more goals might not necessarily like it, but it's pretty fun to watch, and it makes the product just kind of better as a whole. No, I think, I mean, goal settings right now is as good as it's ever been in the league.

And so that's why, that's why, I mean, it comes into, like, what do you pay these guys? And, you know, what do you pay a guy who's the 10th best goalie is? Or maybe there's not a that huge difference between 10 and 15. And it makes for fascinating debate. But it comes down to when you do have a guy that, that you can say with confidence is in that top three or four, that's a huge advantage for our team. Yeah, absolutely. And that's an interesting segue because I think that this, the Holt B. Price thing is

fascinating to me because when I was, when we were doing that midseason awards show, Travis went on the record saying that he thinks Lundquist is his Vesna frontrunner still, even though he's kind of struggled in December. And I disagreed with him at the time, but maybe I wasn't necessarily emphatic enough because I've just been looking at it more and more and pretty much all across the board hope these numbers are either as good or better than the ones price put up last season. And I don't know, it brings up the question of like, is there a outside possibility that we could have a goalie win the hard and back-to-back seasons? Because we hadn't seen it in so long, but it's gotten to a point where if you are sort of

this game-changing goalie on a nightly basis, it really is probably the most like valuable thing. you can do as a player. Yeah, for sure. But the difference to me between what Braden Holby is doing this year and Kerry Price did last year is the team around them, I just felt like Carrie Price, if you'd subtracted, and that's

and I've talked about this few times, but that's the big part of the equation for me when I'm voting for heart. And everyone has different, you know, things that they factor in and kind of personal idiosyncrasies when they're voting. But my thing I've always done is like, subtract that guy from the team and what do they, you know, what does that team look like?

Right. And with Kerry Price last year, I mean, it would have been ridiculous. Well, we're seeing you right now. Yeah, right, right, exactly. And so, you know, Braden Holpey's been awesome for the Capitals, and this is not a sleigh to him, but I still think that that team overall is better than Montreal was last year as a whole. Like, I love that Capitol's team. They were my season to pick to win at all, and I feel good about it right now.

So, you know, that to me, like, so I think he's a lock right now is your BESNA choice. To me, I'm not sure he would be at the top of my heart ballot. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, it's just one of those things where if he sort of keeps up on this pace, and that's a huge if because he could easily just have like a bad week or bad month, as we're seeing with Lunkwis right now. I mean, early on in the season through October and November, people were like, oh, well, Lunkwis is pretty clearly the Lillig MVP.

He's doing everything for the Rangers, and then no one's really talking like that anymore. So it's kind of important to keep that in mind. But, yeah, I don't know. It's fast. The whole Vesna thing is fascinating and just how many good goalies there are. once again we're seeing another pretty special season from a guy so that's fun um let's move on and talk about another thing you wrote about fairly recently and it's the this kind of playoff um format that that the n hl has going right now and it's it's an interesting thing to kind of

just dissect because as you noted it the first two years that we've had this alignment there hasn't really been any issues with it but this could be the one year that sort of uh exposes it and and brings it into question. And apparently the NHLPA and players have kind of been talking about it internally for a while. And I don't know, like from your sense, if things play out this way and we see maybe not the best A teams in the, particularly in the West, make it. Do you think that we could see a change as soon as next year? Oh, no, I'd have to go look, and I should probably know this, like what the agreement was in terms of how long they were going to keep this current format. And because, you know, they'll say, okay, we're going to do this to the whatever season.

and then, you know, the league and the PA will extend that. And I'm not sure where that stands with this. But here's what happens in this league, and it's, you know, good or bad is, you know, there'll be an incident or there'll be, you know, some very high profile, either a hit or, you know, something will happen to league. And if it happens to go down right around the time the GMs are meeting, it becomes a top of discussion. And if it doesn't, then it really, you know, we talk about it for two. days in the cycle and then it disappears. So for this to get any traction, I think at the GM's meeting, after the trade deadline, the standings are going to have to be really, really kind of lopsided

where, let's say, Colorado has, you know, four more points than the second place team in the Pacific and they're outside of the wild card. Like, it's going to take something where, where like it's it's you know going to become a hot topic if it if everything is kind of if it shakes out where everything lines up as it has the last couple years it won't you know there's not going to be motivation to change it's just going to take that kind of it becoming a hot topic and part of it will be you know how much are we asking these GMs going into it but it's funny just how that happens where where you know these things get on the

agenda because that's what's happening right now at that moment right and I think there's a pretty good possibility of that I mean As we look at the standings right now, the coyotes are in second place in the Pacific with 37 points. Right. Which is, you know, that's not a good team. The flames are like a point or two out, and they have like a minus 20 goal differential this year. Oh, my guess. They're at minus 21, and they're at 36.

So they win tonight or whatever. They're in second place. So there's going to be a really, especially, it's even worse if it's second. Like, it's almost like if the third place team, you could say, well, that's not going to happen every year. But if a team finish the second, and has home ice advantage against an even worse team that finishes third. And meanwhile, a good team like Colorado or even more. Or the Jets, or let's say it's Chicago.

Let's say it's some other really high-profile team. Imagine if it's like the reigning champs miss the playoffs. Meanwhile, Arizona's hosting it, you know, has home ice advantage. That's what it's going to take. And so going back to the story I wrote, I guess it would have been, week. I've already lost track. That kind of started with a conversation with Matthew Schneider with the PA, and I just, at the time, you know, I just was looking at the standings, and I asked, I said,

Matthew, is there any, you know, where the players at on this? And he said, yeah, this is, this is a discussion that we're having internally. Don Fear is in the process of gauging what he's really good at, which I know the players appreciated. He's always going, you know, team to team and getting feedback on a number of issues. and this is one of the issues that the players are being asked about and providing their feedback. And really, when you talk to these guys, it comes down to fairness.

And if players feel like that the cards are stacked against them in some way, whether it be an imbalanced, you know, the conference alignment or a playoff format, there's going to be some... And the point that Matthew Schneider made, and I thought it was a fair one, he said, this isn't a player's thing necessarily, because the GMs feel the same way. Like, we're all going to be aligned. on this. It's about having a fair setup. And I don't think if this happens that way, it wouldn't

be fair. Right. Yeah. I mean, you want to kind of reward success and it makes no sense to do otherwise. And beyond just like the best eight teams making it into the playoffs, I think that where I have maybe an even bigger issue with it is the just which teams are going to be playing, which teams and how the format shakes out that way. Because like the NHL seems very insistent on pushing this whole rivalry thing and I completely understand it like you can kind of it's a it's a whole marketing play or not but just like it seems like way to be going way overboard with that compared to other pro leagues out there and it kind of shows in this regard because like now we're going to get the potential where a team like the kings is going to play a really good central team in the first

round like it could be Nashville or Minnesota or maybe even Chicago and then on the other end the spectrum we're going to get whoever finishes second and third in the Pacific just basically throwing rocks at each other for a handful of games. And then we're going to see like we did last year where the flames make it the second round and just get served up on a platter for whoever winds up winning that other matchup. And it just like doesn't, it seems sort of counterproductive. Like it doesn't, it feels like it's not kind of generating what the playoffs are

supposed to do, which is finding out like who the best teams are in the league. So I don't know. That's the main issue I have with it. No, I agree because some team, it's probably going to be St. Louis because it's seven every year is going to get. So there's going to be a team that make, doesn't make a playoff that's going to be really good. Colorado potentially, or Winnipeg, I think Winnipeg.

Rob Bowman wrote about it today on ESPN Insider, just about how the Jets and the Ducks, based on the underlying stats, are poised to have kind of be these breakout teams. And the Ducks, of course, I think we all feel that we were just waiting for it to happen. And, you know, he made a pretty good case on the Jets and why they are kind of poised to make a run. So if that happens, so you can have a good team miss,

then you're going to have a good team that's going to get bounced in the first. round. If the history is any indication, it's going to be St. Louis. And then we're going to have, like you said, then you're going to have that Pacific team that advances that's going to get the clocks cleaned by the Kings or whoever it's going to be. So, no, it's not good.

And it's funny, because you mentioned rivalries. I just, part of me suspects it just came down to travel. Like, you heard, and I'm based on the Detroit. So when Detroit was in the West, I heard it year and year out, like, they would get, they would get so frustrated that they would have to open an Anaheim and then, the second round against San Jose and third round. And so by the time the Cup came around, they were, you know, fatigued and they traveled a million miles.

And that was a concern for a lot of teams. And what this current setup does a good job of, from a team perspective, is it limits travel early on in the playoffs. Right. And then at some point you can't control it. And that, to me, probably was, and then, but that's a tough one to sell the fans, right? So you say, no, we want to build rivalries. Right.

Yeah, no, that's definitely fair. I'm glad you brought up the blues because we decided before we started recording that we're going to mix things up a little bit and you and I are going to adopt the blues. It's usually something Travis and I do, but I know that you've kind of written about them a bunch in the past and you're fairly dialed in with them. And it's a very interesting sort of situation for them. It's kind of a crossroads because you did a primer, a trade primer for each team in the league. And you noted that someone mentioned to you that the blues were. might kind of be restricted financially. And it's tough because they have guys like David Backus and Troy Brower coming up as

UFAs this summer and to a lesser extent Carl Gunnerson. And they kind of have to keep an eye on, they've already paid Teresenko. But I mean, they have a guy like Jaden Schwartz coming up soon. And Shaddenkirk's going to be a UFA in two years, I think. And there's a lot of kind of balls in the air that they need to keep in mind. And it's interesting because they are once again. one of the better teams in the league and you could easily be like okay well this team should be kind of going all in and and trying to finally break through and potentially win a cup but they kind

of are backed into this corner where they need to also weigh the the future while trying to win right now and it's i don't know like what do you do if you're them because with a guy like bacchus it's he's turning 32 and he has a ton of miles and just the way he plays doesn't seem necessarily conducive to being very successful into his mid and late 30s. But I mean, you look at a comparable like Ryan Kessler and it's fair to say that Bacchus should expect to get a deal like that where it's like around six years, 40 million or so. And the UFA class this year isn't very good, but beyond Stampco's, I think Kopitar is not going to make it. And then you have a lot of wingers like Ladd and Lodrich and Erickson and Bacchus is more desirable to a lot of teams because of the

position he plays. So I don't know, like if you're the blues, what do you do with that? Because he is your captain and he's like your heart and soul leader and he's still a very productive player so you can't just let him walk but it would seem so such a weird message was sent to your fans that they like traded david bacchus for like a young player who's not necessarily ready to fully break out just yet and like a couple picks or something like that right like it seems like a weird thing that even even even talk about but they definitely at least should be kind of kicking that around behind the scenes yeah well that was that was interesting so before writing that. So last week we kind of did a trade deadline preview, you know, with notes on every single team in the league. And so I made a few calls to try to get a sense of what teams were trying to do. And kind of independently, a couple guys mentioned

just watch the blues because of financial issues. And I don't know what that looks like. You mentioned Kevin Chatton, Trigg, and that's another interesting one because his price tag is about to really jump. And he still has another year left on his deal, but

maybe that's the guy you move also kind of preemptively. I think the worst thing the Blues could do would be, I mean, it's all due respect to David Bacchus, but it would be to sign him to a Ryan Kessler deal. I don't know anybody in the game that, other than I'm sure that Ryan Kessler and his agents that likes that contract. And what that, you know, 6.875 per year for, what was it, six years? Yep, no.

And for a guy who's already 31, so that doesn't kick in until next year, and what that's done and talking to people is it's messed up expectations because teams GM see it as kind of this outlier among other deals whereas you know the the players looks at it as comparable I mean David Backus has been compared to Ryan Custer's whole career right I mean they've been I mean it's about as perfect as a comparable as you can get and it's not like Custer has a standard covering right like it's you know so if you're David Bacchus I don't I don't know how you can

say, I want anything that much less than Ryan Cuffs to get. And if you're the Blues, I don't know how you give them that deal as a team that's on a budget that has young players coming. And so you're right. Do you trade them at the deadline? You can't sign them until, I think the only way you sign them to that deal is if they went to Stanley Cup, and he's your captain, and he has a great playoff, and he said, okay, he's earned it.

And one of the things Doug Armstrong's been really consistent with over the years is he doesn't like to pay contracts necessarily on potential. But he also doesn't mind rewarding guys for what they've earned because that way he feels like that. So he doesn't like to project too much. So you look at his MO, it's typically bridge deals. Unless, and he said this, he'll make an exception for guys that he thinks are star, like top-tier players. Like Teresanko and Petriangelo. But other than that, it's, you know, it's bridge deals or it's rewarding success.

And I don't know how you reward David Backus as captain of this team with a huge contract without big playoff success. And so that's a tough one because the other, the flip side is they're a budget team that needs young talent coming. They went all in a couple years ago on the Ryan Miller deal. But at the same time, I don't think they can do that same thing this year. They need to save the first round picks and maybe they decide they want to acquire more. But how do you do that when you're at the top of standing? So I don't know. And the funny thing is, I mean, if you look at the standings right now, if the season ended today, they'd play Chicago again.

is just like this team can't really catch a break like they've won one series with the score in the past four years and the teams they lost to were the the wild last year and then the hawks and the kings twice and there's no shame in any of that but like it's just one of those things where you're maybe the best option is to kind of just like sit tight and see how it plays out but then you risk letting back his walk i mean if you don't pay him that i'm sure some team out there is going to give him that Ryan Kessor contract, if not even more, to bring him into the mix this summer. And then you kind of risk losing him for nothing.

And it's tough. It's a tough message to send your fans. And it's tough to sort of just let a guy like that walk. But I honestly don't really know the answer. So I think they're one of the teams where they could really go either way at the trade deadline. I guess maybe how the next month or so goes for them in the standings. And with their play, we'll probably determine that. I think a more likely scenario is then moving a dissentment.

I just, you know, looking at the way that they've got a couple good young options on D that they like. And maybe it's simply trading Carl Gunnorson at the deadline, you know, who's an unrestricted free agent. And I know there's some people that think that's going to happen. But if you're trying to solve a bigger issue financially, it's, you know, trading Chattonkirk before, you know, he gets that next big contract as an option. And you do it only if you get a return like the coyote's got for Keith the Andal. Like that's the only way you consider it. You sit there and go, look, this guy's not available. And I think that was Don Maloney's not strategy, but that was his staff.

Like we like Keep the handle, we want to keep them. But the Rangers came in and once, you know, DeClaire was in the conversation and that package, you almost have to do that deal. Right. And if the Blues get off, well, I don't even remember what the end of the deal was now. Two first and Declare or whatever was. Yeah. And yeah.

And then they got John Moore. as well who they let walk but still but like if so if you're the blues and you could offer two first in a for that maybe you can plug in that's really good and young now for shatt and kirk who probably like better than the handle at this point so it's not unreasonable to say that's a fair offer i don't know i think you do it well that'd be a ballsy movement it's it's one that's a good example because we we rarely see gms kind of pull the trigger and a deal like that usually you like wait till the last minute and and then sink a guy's value because he's an impendent ending UFA, but if you trade, like, you'd certainly get more from a team if you traded him now

just because he does have that extra year left on his deal, right? So it's like... At 4.25, that's a very reasonable number. Yeah. But... And what if you keep some of that money? Like the coyotes kept half of Yandel's salaries. So let's say you keep half of Shattonkirk. So some team, like a squeezed cap team could get Shatton Kirk from the next two years at two and change. Like that has a ton of value. Right. But I mean, if they trade a guy like Shad for, I mean, let's say even Duclair, who probably won't be able to necessarily contribute at an impact level right now. Like, you're pretty much saying, like, all right, well, we're realizing we're probably not going to make it out of the Central Division. So we're just going to make the playoffs and be cool with losing in the first round again.

Not that Kevin Shaddenkirk is necessarily like single-handedly the difference between losing in the first round and winning the Stanley Cup by any means. But it's just like an interesting dynamic. I wonder, like, how that would play. Well, you have to go, so, you know, I talked to a GM and I said, do you guys, how much do you guys analyze the success of these trade-dustan moves through up to years? Like you try to quantify it and he said, yeah, we have. And it's not good. Like, they're funny because fans are like, oh, these guys are idiots and they do these moves, even when evidence is stacked against it. He said, but, you know, you still do it because sometimes you want to send the right message to a room and you want to bring it in.

And you just, you know, it's hard to sell a teleroom that's overachieving or they see everyone else is getting these players. And you're like, ah, we're going to stand pat. And the opposite side of that is, would be sending a guy out. So somehow Doug Armstrong would have to go into that dressing room and say, yeah, I believe we can win us to stand the cup this year. But at the same time, I just traded one of our best defensemen. That would be, so maybe what you do, and I always like, guess this. And I don't know if teams ever do this. I'm trying to think of an example.

but you trade Chattonkirk and then maybe you take that first round pick or one of the assets and you just flip it for a rental and just so you come out ahead ultimately but but I don't know if teams ever do that yeah well it's it's tough especially when you're a good team like they are and you are at the top of standing as you said to like tinker that hard with your team like we rarely ever see a team that's in this position that they're in kind of totally mix up what what they have going just to kind of look ahead, right? It's really tough to do. You know, who kind of did it last year, to some degree, was Steve Eisenman and the Lightning. And so they trade, you know, a first or whatever to get Coburn, but they also trade got two seconds for Brett Connolly.

So here was, you know, and I think that probably made them, and I remember, if I remember correctly, those happened on the same night, right? Like, weren't those deals that happened in like the middle of the night? We all woke up to them. And, you know, I wonder how much those were hand in hand were Eisenly. It's okay. I'm comfortable. not giving up a first round pick because I have two seconds or like I like I like I like it's just creative thinking where you're like we're not just going to go all in on being a buyer a seller let's you know and and and dog I'm sure he's a pretty smart guy you know I think it'll be you're right they're going to be past same to watch so once again I mean let's just kind of like

put a bow on on the blues I mean they're once again a really dominant possession team I think they're seventh in the league right now and they're deep they're they're one of those teams where they don't just have like the one line they obviously terranco is by far their best best and most impactful player but they can kind of roll a couple lines and and they're fairly deep and i think the the one distinguishing thing this year compared to the past has been the play of jake allen who has really kind of stepped up like people haven't necessarily talked about it much just because for a for a goalie in hitchcock's system to get the credit he deserves he'll really need to do something remarkable like people will just generally go like oh well it's hitchcock right he's he's making

look good. But Alan's sort of taken the reins over this year. And I think he started like two-thirds of the games or so and has a 9-27 save percentage and five shutouts. And he's been really good. And it's, I'm sure they're happy to see that after he kind of fell apart in that playoff series last year, especially towards the end versus Minnesota. But I'm just like, when you stack them up against the other teams in the central division, I mean, I think the stars right now are pretty like head and shoulders above the rest of the guys. That could change the year. It goes along. But just purely based on the day we're talking right now, I feel like that's the case. And then after that, there's just this big group where it's like, it's very subjective, I feel like. I mean,

Minnesota and Nashville are sort of similar teams in that regard where they're fairly deep and maybe they have different strengths and weaknesses, but ultimately they're sort of in that same class as St. Louis. And then Chicago has been kind of coming along slowly, but I don't think anyone out there is going to bet against them. They're going to have to wait and see them lose once before you finally kind of pick against them. So I don't know, like, if you're kind of going from top to bottom in the central, where do you see St. Louis in that mix?

I'm telling you, like, you kind of breathed by Dallas in the playoffs. Amately, a St. Louis Dallas for a strong matchup, I'm not sure who I'm picking. Like, I love Dallas right now. Right. And everything's great. But, you know, get into the playoffs.

And with their goalies, the goalie situation, I'm not sure who you start there in the playoffs. Carleton's been kind of a history. historically bad in the postseason. Niemie's been up and down. I know he's got a cup, but he also has, you know, it hasn't always been good.

Right. And St. Louis is that kind of big heavy team that once, and you know how the style of play changes in the postseason, I'm not sure there's going to be as much open ice for the stars to do what they've been doing all year. That's a matchup I wouldn't mind for the Blues, I think. No. Like, I certainly like the Dallas-St.

Louis first-round matchup better for St. Louis than I would, like, some of the past they had against Chicago or L.A. I might pick them in that series. Well, it might be one of those things where especially if the stars just kind of keep this up as the year it goes along. Like, for this Blues team, it might be kind of a nice little change to go in as sort of a heavy underdog, at least by public perception, and then kind of have less pressure as opposed to these like 50-50 toss-up series they've played in the past where it's like it could go either way and then it just never goes St. Louis's way. Right. Yeah. Right.

And I mean, you mentioned the goal, like, I think Alam was playing really good down the stretch last year too. I mean, he's been better for a longer period this year. But again, we're talking about not that he takes playoff games too. So there's questions certainly with St. Louis and goal. But I think, like, if I was really pushed on that, I would pick St. Louis in a playoff series over Dallas. And the other thing is, like, Dallas may get to the point where they hadn't played a meaningful game in a month.

And so sometimes it takes, you know, a couple games for those kind of teams to get going in the postseason. And by then it could be due nothing to St. Louis going back to St. Louis. Yep. Yeah. I'm with you. That would be a fascinating matchup. Craig, let's

wrap it up, man. Thanks for taking the time again. What can people look forward to? Do you have any kind of bigger scale projects in the works right now, or what are you up to? No, that's a good question. I've got to hunker down and work on some bigger scale projects. But in the

short term, a couple things, getting Alexander Brockoff on the phone to talk about Florida. And I just think he's a player that has emerged. And people forget, you know, that was kind of a controversial pick by the Panthers

when Seth Jones slipped in that draft. And I think Barkoff has emerged this month as kind of one of the more interesting players league-wide and maybe as a potential, you know, star on the rise. And so you're looking at him. And then kind of building off, I don't know if you, I'm sure you saw,

Ali Friedman mentioned it as 30 things. Some of those players that sign one-year contracts that can come out of, can start negotiating extension come January 1st. I'm going to dive into that for tomorrow on the blog. So that's always fun to take a look at. And if people want to kind of interact with you,

they like what they've heard on the show and they want to keep in touch with you, they can get you on Twitter at Craig Custin's and can send you some Custin's correspondence, the alliteration of sweeping nation. The mailbag, the longest hashtag mailbag, just to make sure people can't cram in very long questions. But yeah, that's fun, every Friday.

Excellent. Cool, man. Well, as always, it's been fun, and we'll make sure to get you back on as the year goes along. Awesome. Thanks for having me. Cool, man. How good one. The Hockey PDOCast, online at HockeyPedocast.com. Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and at Travis Yost.