The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 44: Ageless Wonder Cats

Episode Date: December 31, 2015

We adopt the Florida Panthers, whose stars are either incredibly young or are defying age by remaining productive will into in their mid-30s and 40s. They're on a nice run right now that has them sitting atop the Atlantic Division, but will they be able to keep it up as the year goes along? Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show (www.hockeypdocast.com/donate). There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl defensive end, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and, of course, the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

These days, everything is go, go, go. It's non-stop hustle all the time. Work, friends, family. Expect you to be on 24-7? Well, sometimes you just need to reach for a Coors Light because it's made to chill. Coors Light is cold-loggered, cold-filtered, and cold-packaged. It's as crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. It is literally made to chill.

Coors Light is the one I choose when I need to unwind. So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey Pediocast with your host, Travis Yost and Dimitri Filipovich. Welcome to the Hockey PeeioC. My name is DeVitra Filipovich, and joining me is Travis Yost.

Travis, what's going on, man? I heard we're doing Florida Panthers today, so I am pumped. You are? Yeah. Moderally. Yeah, a little bit. I'm worried a bit about the tone of this conversation. There's a lot of hype about the fancy cats,

but I'm actually very curious to hear where you have them pegged by Game 82. Well, I guess we'll get into that and a whole lot more. I'll just dive right into it. I think that it's interesting because they obviously have been on a tear lately and now they're leading the Atlantic Division and that's a good story and I feel like people are kind of running with it. And I don't know. It's it's probably not going to be a very hot take here, but I feel like I'm right where I was with them at the start of the year. Like I think I was probably more optimistic on them than you were. But at the same time, I don't think that they're going to finish first in Atlantic. I think that they're going to finish first in Atlantic. I think that they're, going to be somewhere there in that fighting for a playoff spot and they very well could make it depending on a few bounces. And I don't know. This is like a nice little development, but I don't ultimately think that it's really changed much. That division, by the way, is comedy because there's like seven teams separated by like a point and a half. It's, it's going to be a knife fight the entire way through, which of course, you know the NHL loves. The thing about the Panthers,

I think that is really interesting is we talked a lot about in the Metro what team. What would take advantage of a couple teams slipping back and who would pick up those points over the course of the season. Ultimately, it hasn't happened as much in the Metro as it has as it has in the Atlantic. You can easily make the case that the fact that Montreal has just been dreadful in the standings for a month. I think they've collected like four points in the last few weeks or something ridiculous. They've taken a step back. Otto was horrendous. Boston has actually been playing pretty well, but they got off to a slow start to the year. Tampa Bay just has never really gotten it going, but they're still hanging in there.

But my point is this, there's not a singular dominant team in that division. And when you have so many, for lack of better words, coin flip games, you invite the opportunity for another team to come to the table and say, okay, we can play this kind of game too. And that's where I think Florida is because I never really come away impressed watching Florida. But I think that's, it's important to frame that appropriately because just because I don't come away and press, like they're not a bad team, clearly. I think their wins are masking a bit of the underlying performance, which I think is a bit suspicious, more than a bit suspicious. But even if they, you know, evened out, leveled out, I still think they're a competitive team. Like, they have some interesting pieces. They obviously have the goaltending with Thulango.

So it's, I don't see this team falling out of it. But I think partly it's driven by the fact that the division is just so mediocre this year. Yeah, I mean, who should mention the Longo a little bit here? I brought him up as kind of like a dark horse Vezna candidate when we were talking about it during midseason awards. And I don't know, he's like, he's like a 9, 26, 8 percentage this year and he's playing a ton. And we just haven't really seen guys who are 35 years old or older kind of really do this very often.

Like the gold standard is obviously that won Tim Thomas season. But other than that, we haven't really seen anyone do what Luong was doing right now. And it's incredible. I'm kind of a little bit worried about if he has to play like 65 to 70. any games this season, how he's going to hold up as the year goes along. And I think Al Montoya is a perfectly serviceable backup. But they clearly are relying on Luongo quite a bit. And he's an awesome goalie. And I think that as long as health permitting, he's going to stay at an over 920 level. And that'll help mask some of those underlying concerns. But yeah, it's crazy that he's still

so good. And I feel like people just, for whatever, for whatever reason, either it's because of the contract or because of the playoff stuff that happened in Vancouver or whatnot or just like, aren't willing to acknowledge that he's still like one of the 10 best goalies in the league? Like it's remarkable to me. One of the big reasons why I'm so optimistic that Florida won't fall totally out of it is they have like a lot, a lot was made about Aaron Ekblad season last year, but just him and Brian Campbell are just still so good back there.

And when you have, now they haven't played nearly as much together as they had a year ago. I think they've probably only played about half of their time together. without looking at it. I think it's probably close about 50% of their ice time they've played together. But both of them are having really good seasons. And this gets back to my point about the Brian Campbell career arc is fascinating because he was one of those players that went from good player, good player, whoa, good player, really bad contract. And now at the back end of it, it's actually good player on a good contract. It's been like that for a couple of years. But it's kind of funny how that's worked out, but he's been a blessing for that team because I don't really know where this Florida

team looks if they have, you know, if they don't have him in that lineup. Him and Ekblatt have been so reliable back there. And that's partly the reason why I guess I don't think this team's going to fall out is at least for half of a game. You know Florida is going to be very competitive. And in most cases, maybe a slightly better team than your team average. So those two obviously drive a lot of what they can do. I think I'm probably cooler on their forward ranks than you are. But I just think a lot of that's just undeveloped talent so far. I mean, there's a lot of young talents still in that rotation,

and they've got a lot of guys coming too. Well, so I just looked it up while you were talking. Eckblatt and Campbell have played like just over 50% of their 500 teams together. Look at this. No, they've been absurdly good together. They're 59% possession, over 60% goals, over 60% scoring chances. Like, when those two guys are out on the ice together, that is the Panthers are dominating. And you're right, if as the year goes along, if they, I think they've broken up up recently. But if the year goes along and they realize that they kind of just need to rely on those guys,

they can kind of, you know, limit the exposure for some of the other guys in that blue line. And it makes a huge difference. And I think that even stretching it a bit further, like if they choose to go power on power against whoever they're playing, like that top line as well, when they, when they have those, that five-man unit, they're ridiculous together. I mean, Barkov's returned to the lineup. I remember we talked about them while he was out there. I think it was in early November and they were kind of slumping.

And I was like, well, let's just wait to see how they look when he gets back. And of course, I mean, he's made all the difference in the world. Like him, Hubert O and Jagger together are just like, it's like a perfect combination. They're so fun to watch. Yeah, that's a, that's the unbelievably top-loaded line. I think last, the last game they play, I think it was Trocheque with Smith and Yokinen. And so, like, that's a top six that can get it done. Again, it's not a great top six, but in that division, I think it's going to be more than enough.

Are you concerned at all with the bottom six for a lack of, I hate describing bottom six as a bottom six? But like third and fourth lines, there's a something of a whole, I think it's fair to say. Yeah, definitely. I mean, they have a guy like Brandon Peary playing on the third line right now, and I think that he can generate a little bit of offense. But it's a lot of like Corbin Knight, Sean Thornton, Derek McKenzie. who managed to succor P.K. Subban into fighting him yesterday, because that's just an interesting decision by Subban. But yeah, I mean, they have a bunch of guys here that aren't necessarily people you want to be relying upon a lot.

But I don't know. Obviously, I mean, if they had four lines that they could roll consistently and not have a drop-off, then we'd be talking about them as one of the best teams the league. This is like a situation the teams like them face, right, where like their best players are really, really good. And then they kind of have to piece it together as they go down the lineup. and just hope that those guys can kind of hold the fort long enough for the top line to do their thing. And I don't know, I guess that remains to be seen.

And based on the underlying numbers, they haven't necessarily been up to snuff so far. But I don't know. I don't know what's the answer there? Like, do you think that they are a possible, like, candidate to make a little bit of a, like, a small trade at the deadline where they bring in a guy that they can kind of plug in there? I don't think that they're going to be a team that's going to swing for the fences and bring in, like, a star by any means and a rental player. but maybe they could be a little feisty there at the deadline. Yeah, and maybe it's worth pointing out too that at aggregate, Florida hasn't looked that impressive this year.

But I want to say over the last 10 or 15 games, they're above average in 5 and 5 just on pure shot differential. So this isn't, I guess I shouldn't say that I'm cool on the team. It's just there are, when you look at the makeup of the roster, I think there are enough holes to give pause or give concern. because they very much feel like one of those top heavy teams where you're an injury away from, oh my God, it's going to careen south quickly. That's probably one of the big concerns I have with the roster. I have to bring this up, though. If we're doing Florida, I have to mention that UC Yokenan deal,

I think he's signed for like $4 million for like three more years. He's had a really, really good season. And I know it feels like he's 100 years old. I want to say he's like 31, 32. But he's actually scoring pretty comparably. to Yarmir Yager, who everyone's like raving over this year as just this unbelievable transcendent talent again doing it for like the 30th year in a row. And you know, and Yager deserves all that credit and he's been insanely good for that team. Maybe they're best forward for large

spurts of the season. But like Yokin's been pretty damn good in his own right. And I think he probably does get the pop because 32 feels like what, 19 years old when compared to Yager. But he's he's been very productive in the pure counting numbers. He's he's fit well into what Florida wants to do. And so far that contract is working out really well for Yoke. And they're going to be interesting to see what happens to 34, 35. But to me, tying it back to what you were saying about the depth move, I think they have to, right? Like, if you're in this playoff race here and you are a team that is competitive with basically anyone in that division right now, I feel like you have to kind of go for it here, right? Well, yeah. I mean, especially

since they do have guys like Campbell and Yager coming up as UFAs and their future with this team. is probably up in the air. I feel like we'll see how that plays out. But I think that it would make a lot of sense if they kind of, I think they have a lot of assets and pieces that they could move. And there's definitely a move to be made here to bring in, like, a guy they can just slot into the third line to give them another kind of combination with Piri. Maybe they can generate some offense.

And that'll be an inch. I can't think of any names off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's every trade deadline, there's a bunch of guys like that are just kind of kicking around. Like maybe like even a Lee Stepniak, for example, would look great on this team. I would like to see them snag and Eric Fair from Pittsburgh just because Pittsburgh might be wheeling and dealing big time. I don't think they're going to be a seller per se, but they might be moving a lot of pieces in and out. And Eric Fair would be exactly the type of player that I would like to look at if I was in Florida, because I think you could buy them pretty damn cheap and kind of bolster that forward group.

But ultimately, that's the one area they're going to have to address. The other area, of course, is, and this might be more of a long-term issue that they address, but the defense beyond what we've seen and what we've talked about with Eckblatt and Campbell, especially Erica Branson and Willie Mitchell. Oh, God. Yeah, they have been really, I mean, really bad. And this is kind of a common theme with it seems like that entire division, right? There's like these third pairings, some second pairings, some third pairings,

usually a combination of both that just are getting their clocks cleaned at five on five. And maybe it's anecdotal, but I feel like we haven't seen that as much in years, past and it just, maybe we're just focusing on a bulk of teams late in the past month on this show where we're focusing on teams that have similar issues. But man, their depth defense is, it gets him into a lot of hot water. Like, Erica Branson has not panned out to the defenseman. I don't think that they thought he would be. Well, dude. Eric Branson was drawing Chris Pronger parallels when he was coming out in the draft. So I think, I think saying he hasn't turned out to be what they thought it'd be is like the biggest understatement of the century. I'm also Eric Good Branson's, uh, player agent. So I'm

just trying to smooth out. I think Chris Bronger in 2015 might be a better hockey player than Eric Brinson. That's brutal. No, no, so do you put it exclusively on him? Or do you, I mean, because you have to apportion, he's played most of his minutes this year with William Mitchell. I know they've broken it up a bit, but I mean, I think when they were together, they were telling like 40% of five on five.

I mean, that's unspeakably bad. That's Atlanta Thrasher's bed. Yeah, and they were, we highlighted them when we were talking about Lucas Biza and Jared Cowan and those guys is like possibly the worst combination in the league. And it's funny. I don't know. Maybe it's the power of the podcast. But after that, they split them up.

And maybe it was just going to eventually happen anyways. But they've been a much better team since they did that. So it's funny how that works. Almost every pairing that we talked about on that PDO cast was, I wanted to say podcast, but almost every pairing on that PDO cast that we talked about as being just nightmarishly bad, Colorado, Florida, Ottawa, they were split up within like a week. week. And I'm sure that was totally coincidental, but it doesn't make me feel like a total jackass that we actually pinpointed potential issues. And the coach was like, yeah, maybe this

isn't working. They split them up. But regardless, though, so this is a thing like when you have Branson and Mitchell, I think both, I think it's fair to say both have struggled individually and collectively, obviously. But just by merely breaking them up, that doesn't solve the problem, right? Because now you have, for a very simplistic way to put it, half of the problem on two different pairings. And really, this is this is the exact area that gets Florida into trouble. And when you're talking about a playoff caliber team, you have to nitpick. You have to nitpick in roster to say, where can we improve? And right now, beyond what, what Echblad and Campbell offer you on the back end, like it seems like there's a big jump from those two downwards. And again, we've seen

this on a lot of teams, but I think Florida is very, very in this mix as well. Yeah, the Mitchell thing is kind of distressing. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he retired after this season. His contract's up, and he's clearly not anything resembling the player he once was. And I don't know, I guess, I mean, for the Panthers, it's probably the type of thing where despite the fact that he hasn't been very good at hockey for a couple years now, like, they're probably perfectly happy with that transaction they made with him because I remember like the Katie Baker article where she was talking about how Eckblad was staying with the Mitchells. And I'm sure that there's like some impact there that we can't really quantify that

that made sense and worked out ultimately, right? So it's kind of, you got to keep that stuff in mind. But I think pretty much any defensemen they could bring in at this point would be of help just so they give them a few more options. And there's like a little tinkering moves here and there that this front office can pretty easily make without necessarily kind of mortgaging the future by any means. So they really should be pretty active just purely because this Atlantic division isn't very good at all.

It's so wide open, right? I think are the Bruins playing the best hockey out of anyone in that division right now? I would say yes, right? I mean, look, I hear the screams from Canadians fans that the team's not playing bad. They're just not getting the goaltending and how they can't buy a goal. But look, that is just not, when that team does not have carry price, they are just not the same team. They do not have the same bite. It speaks to how big carry price is for that team, obviously.

But they just are not remotely the same team as they are on one you have. Dustin Tarkersky and I think Ben Scriven's going to get some burn here now in that and so That's going to be an interesting side trade to maneuver it to watch as well, but you know one of the other things Maybe a final point on the Fort of Panthers, but I was going to write about them a couple weeks ago from a From a cap perspective and I still actually might revisit this depending on where things play out But I was looking at their their contract situation a couple weeks ago and they have like I want to say either 13 or 14 players on expiring deals. And it's like there's a lot of talent there.

So a lot of people will point to, oh, Yager's expiring. And you know, you've got Brian Campbell expiring. But obviously, William Mitchell's expiring. Erica Branson, I think, is an RFA. I want to say, Brian, Peary, Sparkoff. There's just an unbelievable horde of expirings. I think they need a backup goaltender next year. That makes them an interesting trade team, regardless of whether

they're buyers or sellers and I presume they're going to be buyers, but they just have so many players on expirings. And even if they're committing to most of them, I don't know, there's the opportunity that maybe they flip one of these RFAs for some forward depth or maybe for a second pairing defender. I think it could be in the cards, especially if that specific player was signed beyond, obviously, he was not a pure rental. If a hypothetical trade target was maybe two or three years signed out, maybe you see one of these RFA's shuffle because there are so many of them. Yeah. Well, okay, so

one final point on the Panthers is like if you're running them right now, like what do you what kind of contract are you giving Barkoff? Because I feel like you just give them like a blank check and just be like just write down whatever you want. Like he's probably going to get the Tarasenko eight years, 7.5 million per, right?

I don't think he's going to be that high. I think, yeah, I think they'll probably go seven or eight years. and I think they'll probably try and come in around maybe six and a half, which I think is pretty fair. I mean, you're talking about $50 million for a player who's been really, really good. But I don't know that he's been as dominant as maybe that first cut of talent. But let me just say this about Barkoff.

He is so fun to watch. When he's on his game, you can't get the puck from him. He reads the play so well on both ends of the ice. One of the things I've been most impressive about him is he is so steady defensively, just reading the run of play and getting into passing lanes a half second before even most guys would even think to get in the passing lanes. He's become such a disruptive force, and it must be that pure international player development that's got him to that level.

But he's just so steady in every zone. And he's like the dream player to coach if you're a head coach and you want a guy who you can throw out in any situation in any game state. and now you're seeing the scoring numbers starting to percolate a bit. It's a very good spot for Florida. It's just going to be expensive as all hell. Well, good luck getting the puck from them

when him and Yager are on the ace together. It's not a very enviable task. It's ridiculous. When those two, I just want to see them play like a down one minute and a half left playoff game seven stretch where him and Yager get into the offensive zone and the puck, you know,

you know they're just going to work like Mule to get to the puck in front of the net. You know how teams defend like maniacs in those situations. I want to see if in that spot of attrition, if Yager and Barcoff can just get it there. Because first off, I don't even understand how Yager still does it. Like, you can't move them off the puck.

It's bizarre. Well, I think that when I, like, look at what he's doing right now, I honestly feel like a guy like Joe Thornton and to a lesser extent, Henrik Sidney. And like, these guys are, if they want to and, like, health permitting, I have no, I have no reason to believe that they won't remain as effective. offensively at least into their early 40s right like it's just like they're so good at protecting the puck with their body and just waiting and keeping their keeping their eyes in the play until someone opens up and then finding that open guy and it's it's remarkable like i honestly don't i'm sure it'll be just at yager'll reach a certain point where he's like i just don't really want to take this like physical pounding anymore and he'll just hang him up by like there's been no real discernible drop off in his play and like he's basically been the same player for a couple of years now and it and it and It's truly remarkable.

I will say this. I think the Yager thing, you know, it's talked about basically every single, in every single direction of how much value he has. The team and his scoring ability and his ability to possess the puck and, you know, just the fact that he's just such a mule and he's so durable and he can play 18 minutes a night still at his ridiculous age of 75. The thing that I think it's understated is he has been such a positive impact. on Barkhov. It's kind of ridiculous. And, you know, it's funny because we talk so much about how young talent drives success in the NHL. And Barcove's obviously extremely young, but like it's the rare, maybe not even a rare instance, but it is an instance where a really, really, really, really veteran player actually elevates the game of a young, you know, blue chip prospect who's really come

into his own. And now he's this dynamic force that teams really can't guard. And it's like, it's like the perfect unison, right? Like you have both guys benefiting from one another, but I think it kind of gets, like, I think you could dress Yager up and down that lineup and he'd still be reasonably productive. I wonder how good Barkhoff would be without Yager. And I still think he'd be pretty damn good, but I think Yager certainly impacts his game. And I think a lot of that's a testament to just the work that they can do in the offensive zone together. Like it's, it must be so draining and stressful to try and guard both of them. It's the amount of boardwork. they do the ability to recover pucks.

Again, they're just staying on the puck and not forcing the puck into bad areas. They both have this innate ability, shared ability. And when they're on the ice together, it is extremely fun to watch. Yeah, yeah, that certainly is. All right, let's hit one more topic, I guess, while we're still here. I don't know, like, what are you going to talk about? Do I want to, I feel like we've- I got one.

I got one, because I'm writing about this tomorrow, and I actually have had this discussion with a few different people, just to kind of gauge. I kind of went on a ran a couple nights ago. I'm actually, I didn't ask you, so I figured I'd save it for, it'd be a perfect podcast topic. Excellent. If you had to name right now, and it's a very tough question because you have to kind of strip away the player talent aspect of it. It's an issue I deal with all the time.

If you were, you know, let's say you were owning the, you own the Vegas team or the Quebec team and you had a choice of any single coach in the NHL. They were all free agents. They were available. What three coaches would you hire? Like, who do you think are the three like truly sharp coaches in the league? Because I don't, I think a lot of people, like, I feel like everyone's just say, oh, Babcock, Quantiville. And like, I think they're obviously there.

But I think the discussion becomes interesting at like three, four, five. Yeah, that is. I mean, obviously, yeah, the Babcock, for example, is going to be huge. I mean, both of us are pretty on the record being the big Bruce Boudreau fans. I think Dave Tippett is also a really kind of sharp guy who does a good, did good job of mixing in the kind of like old-fashioned and tangible stuff with actually not. kind of burying, burying other things, other components that you need to do

to be a good coach. I think that, I don't know, I like Mike Yo a lot. I think he's come a long way since he started off with the wild. You go on down the line, like,

I don't know, Dan Bilesmo, for example, seems like a pretty sharp guy. I think Peter Laviolet has done a remarkable job in Nashville, for example. Am I missing anyone that should be saying?

I'll just say, so here are the names that I threw out there. So let's just exclude Babcock and Quarlet plentiful for a moment because everyone agrees that they are two extremely talented coaches. But they've also been blessed how to have two through really good rosters, at least up until this year. So let me, the three that, the three or four that I would say, Mike Yo, for sure, without a

doubt. Dave Tippett, for sure, without a doubt. I would again echo Bruce Boudreau, who I really like. And we've talked at length about his coaching abilities. And I would also say, Dan. and Bilesma, who I think you also mentioned as well. That group of four, there were a couple others I mentioned when I was going on this mini rant a couple nights ago that would obviously be in that mix.

But like a lot of it is, so I got a few messages on this topic. And a common refrain was centered around two coaches. Barry Trots, who I like, but I just, I don't really know. He just seems to be a very big impact on his teams. But I guess maybe I don't have as good of a read on him as others. because when I say, like, I think a coach is really sharp, like I can ascertain that he and is in control of the things that he can do on the ice. He's getting the better matchups.

He knows when to pull the goaltender. What's a good example? His team don't take so many bench minor penalties that are so obvious and avoidable. You know, just the things that you can observe qualitatively in game without even the availability of data. And then, of course, when you have a coach with hundreds of games of experience, you can say, he obviously makes his team better or worse. The other coach I got pushed back on, and I just don't really have, I'm very on the fence

about him. I don't know if he's good or not at all. I just, he's just been on a very good team, and that's Ken Hitchcock. I just don't have an opinion on him. What do you think about Hitchcock? I think he's a pretty good coach. I mean, his track record sort of speaks for itself, and he definitely has had the benefit of being on some good teams, but I think there's like something to the idea that he, his

system is very goalie-friendly and defense-oriented. did. And I also think that the thing I like about Hitchcock is there was definitely that period of time where he was known as like the Mark Crawford type where he would like just like yell a lot and and people would tune him out after a while. And I remember there was that great story where he took a little bit of time off and then came back. And when he came to St. Louis, he sort of realized that, you know, the NHL was transitioning to this more modern style of coaching where you kind of need to be the player's friend and have good communication skills. Otherwise, guys these days just are. aren't really going to respond to you and they are going to tune you out. And I think that his longevity and his ability to sort of adapt like that. And we're seeing a little bit of that with Lindy Ruff in Dallas where that's a pretty commendable thing to do because we always get on guys for being kind of stuck in their ways and being passed over, pass by over time, right?

And these guys are examples of people who have sort of adapted and taken their craft to a whole new level. So the last name I would throw in that mix and I forgot him when I was going through my three or four, I would mention as well. But I think Daryl Sutter obviously is in that mix as well because his teams, again, there's a coach where you can point to with hard data and say his teams benefit from his just being there. And you know, you can say what you will about, you know, still having a very dump and chase-heavy team. And in an NHL that's starting to move away from that to some degree.

But look, since Babcock's Red Wings of like the 2007-8-9 era, he's probably had the most dominant 5-on-5 team for years now. So, I mean, like, that's not nothing. You don't get there. It's not exact. And he's done it with, like, everyone can be great with Angea Kopitar and Drew Dowdy. But, like, if you ever looked for years and years now at LA's like third and fourth lines, like, it's just not really talented. They just dominate the run of play. And it's, and it's, I think it's a testament to his system. And, you know, there might be, there might be elements of that system that there's negatives to it. I don't, I think it suppresses their shooting percentage a tad bit.

So maybe you lose a few goals there, but they clearly win on volume basically every single game and have for five, six seasons now. And I think the key distinction here, though, is like the whole dump and chae style. Like I think we've heard from various quotes and interviews with Sutter where, like, he seems to understand that, like, what that entails. And he's sort of modeled it and catered it to the roster he has. Like, he's not, he's not taking these skilled guys who, you know, should be carrying it in. and forcing them to dump it in

because he thinks that you have to play this bruising style of game to win in the Western Conference. It seems like it's a very kind of perfect marriage between roster construction and the system. Yeah, and I obviously completely agree. And I feel like I'd really like to track some Lle games and really pin down if this is just totally me

thinking it up or if it's true. But I feel like certain players on the roster are given way, obviously, way more freedom to do certain things inside of it. system. Like Tyler Tofoli and Jeff Carter, those are two players that immediately come to my mind as players, at least in the past or present time, have had the luxury of like they can put the puck on their stick for extended periods of time. And again, so I guess my point is this, he doesn't suppress talent. Like if a guy is capable in talented in terms of carrying the puck through and

generating for his team, like he lets them do that. It's not like a, you must dump the puck in in the neutral zone kind of thing because I think that's where you start to see offense being suppressed and teams start to struggle and LA's obviously never been like that. So I think it's very, what's a word, adaptive or flexible to the roster as kind of as you said it. Which is the best skill you can have as a coach, right? Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's probably at the top of the list. I guess my last follow-up question to this, because this kind of gets more into my article, but who would you, the reverse of that? Like you, again, you own Vegas or QC and you, you, would not hire these three, four, or five coaches, no matter the situation, who would they be?

John Tortorella is number one, I feel like, right? Yeah. So that's going to be the crux of my article tomorrow. I won't spoil it then. I won't give you my two and three. I'll let you. He's just such, the whole Columbus situation just stinks. It's just awful.

And I actually don't, again, we've went through this. I don't blame Tortorella for it, but he's just such a massive drag on his team's performance and has been for years. And it's like, it's not like you're. hiring a guy out of the minors and he's had some success there and you have no idea what he's going to do with the NHL but you want to give him a shot. A guy like John Hines, for example, in New Jersey, you haven't really seen NHL experience, but you feel confident what he can do and it's kind of a dart throw.

Like, Tortoil has been around for hundreds of games and he's constantly the same, he's a one-trick pony. His teams get buried in the defensive zone. He distances himself from a premier player on the roster. the team just their sole commitment is to hitting and blocking shots and great fine like hitting and blocking shots you know in a vacuum are great but are you doing it functionally or are you just living in the defensive zone and just piling up the numbers because his teams consistently lose on volume and that's he's like the anti-daryl's John Torre you're actually that's the best way to describe him he is the anti-daryl Sutter yeah who's two and three just to round this out oh that's a

that's a top I'm going to make you pick two I'm going to make you pick two and three Hmm. I think that there's a guy like Dave Cameron is like I just don't really know what to think about him. I don't know if it's like a roster thing or like some of the stuff that he says and some of his lineup decisions make me think that he's not a very good coach. Oh, he is moving. He is moving quickly and at the right. I don't know if I have him in my top three yet, but he is knocking on the door of top five for sure. I mean, anytime anytime you dress a defenseman as a forward and move him onto your top line at a point in a game, I'm sorry, you're just never going to see Mike Yo do that. You are never going to see Bruce Fudrow do that. They have their weird oddities in their game,

but they just don't do those things because they're insane. And that's, I think, the mark of a desperate coach. But I still wouldn't put him, are you going to put them too? I wouldn't put him in my top three yet. Would you have Michelle Tarion in there? Oh, he's another one that is so cool. I actually don't because I think what I would do. Well, I'll tell you my two.

My two is Paddy Waugh. Okay, see, I have a count. counter to that. I think I'd have Bob Hartley and Michelle Terry and ahead of Paddy Wah. No way. And maybe even John Tortura. And listen to this. Because how you phrased it was if you're starting up an expansion team in Vegas or something, right? Like at least I wouldn't give those guys like a five year contract or anything. But like I feel like at the start, maybe in the first or second year when you're not really expecting to be good, I feel like at least like, like, a guy like Patrick Wa would like legitimately sort of be the face of your franchise. And it would be,

entertaining at least. Yeah, yeah, for sure, man. I'm not buying this at all. I don't want a face of the franchise head coach. I want to face of the franchise center. Like, I don't know, Sidney Crosby, Anzee Coptor, and I want a coach who can make him the best. I have no confidence in Patty Waugh. And I'm not getting into Patty Waugh because we've done it 18 times, but his defensive zones are such a nightmare. It's comical. He is too. He just needs better assistant coaches, honestly. Like, I don't know. I think that... Again, though, if you need better assistant coaches, then maybe the assistant coaches should be the head coach. Yeah, that's fair.

So who's your three? Bob Hartley maybe? I'm not a fan. I think that some of the breakout stuff he's done has been very questionable. I think I would agree with Hartley three. But I have to say, Michelle Tarion is always hanging around there. I wouldn't put him in that group, but he's always hanging around there. Dave Cameron is just rapidly surging up this list.

He's doing his best. Oh, man. he is uh he i would say that after torterella i mean it's just it's pure comedy that he's in the league right now but beyond torterella i like cameron's decisions are mind blowing sometimes to watch and it's and it's almost it feels very much like the marks of a desperate man who's just looking for any type of answer and in some ways you can you can sympathize with that because you feel like you've pulled all the strings but like there's certain instances where he'll just keep going to the well of the same

terrible players constantly. And it's like, even though he's on a multi-year deal, I'm like, you know, you miss the playoffs here. I don't think his job, the reality is in the NFL, you miss the playoffs, your job is always on the line unless you are an extremely established guy like, you know, Mike Babcock

and Joe Quinterville. He is, he could be a dark horse fired in the offseason, especially with the new managerial changes that are expected in Ottawa. He could be actually, if this team misses the playoffs, he could be gone and that would be what how many coaches then of that brian murray list of coaches it is a it is a graveyard now at this

this point well i like this recent trend of like a hl and and college coaches sort of getting a chance because like i always i always thought the whole like recycling nature of just like getting these retreads torterella who yeah like you know who you're getting into bed with like at that point as you said it's not even really torturalla's fault it's like the guy who brought him in is responsible for the job john toronto I was doing and like I don't understand why you would ever not at least give like a guy that's shown to be a pretty progressive forward thinking guy in the HAL who's had success a shot like I like I like I'm very curious to see how guys like John Hines and Dave Haxthall like progress and and even Bill Peters who I think is a pretty pretty smart guy like it'll be interesting to see how those guys do and if we see more John Cooper's and stuff like that down the road one of my one of my I'm gonna make this one of my three hockey new year's resolutions but I really want to get a firm read on Dave Hacksdall in the second half of this year. I feel like he's another one where I'm just totally, like, I have no opinion. And it's not because I like him or hate. I just literally don't

know what kind of impact he has on his roster. I will, I'm going to make that a, we should have a hockey New Year's Resolution podcast. That would be in my, that's going to be my top three. It's going to be more, more Flyers games watching coaching. Just in general. Yeah. Yeah, that's actually this. I'm already regretting this because that means I'm going to have to watch more Flyers games, But no, we'll put that at the top of the Westland. Cool, yeah. Let's think about it. And maybe next time we record early in the new year, we'll kind of release our resolutions

and we'll try and keep ourselves on the right path. I think that's going to be it for this show. And I guess for 2015, it's the last time we're recording this year. So it's been pretty cool, man. We've been doing this for three months now. And it's been a lot of fun. By the way, we should have brought this up in the beginning. You kind of glossed over it.

one of our first podcast, you were pretty big on the Panthers. And they are cruising up through the standings. Hey, and you were pretty big on the Flyers. Yeah, that did not work out well. That did not work out. Not, wait, hold on. I was not big on the Flyers. You were huge on the Flyers.

I was like, they could comfortably fight for Fifth in that situation. I was big on Anaheim, and we can just burn that podcast. Right. And you saved me from the Blue Jackets, so that's good. Yeah. We're going to have to revisit Anaheim, too, because I feel like they're coming on very, quietly. I don't know. Maybe it's just me being hopeful, but I feel like they're not terrible anymore.

Yeah. Yeah, we can talk about them in the year. Yeah, oh, I should note, I'm house-sitting for my brother for the next month. So our listeners will be happy to know that there's going to be very few sirens in the next handful of shows. So that's a positive development. Although I feel like at this point, it's kind of become a trademark of the show. I feel like we should get the producer post-off to just like put in a few sirens here and there,

just throw people off. She put it in the intro. Let everyone know that the local coroner is picking. up. Excellent, man. All right. Have a good New Year's Eve. Be safe, Travis. And same goes for our listeners.

And we'll check back in early in 2016. All right, man. Cool. The Hockey PDOCast online at HockeyPedocast.com. Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and at Travis Yost.