The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 45: Get Out While You Still Can

Episode Date: January 6, 2016

We discuss the recent Jonathan Drouin trade request, and where the Tampa Bay Lightning go from here with him. We also use that as a gateway for going over other trade rumours such as the best potential landing spots for Dustin Byfuglien, and whether the Nashville Predators should get out from under the Shea Weber contract while they still can. Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show. There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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And joining me is Travis Yost. Travis, what's going on, man? I am doing all right. How are you doing today? I'm doing good. I think this is the first time we've recorded in 2016, right? This, yes, technically, no, we recorded New Year's Eve, didn't we? Yeah, we did, yeah.

Okay, fair. That's, just remember, if anyone ever questions our commitment, we got a New Year's Eve recording in before the New Year came in. That's pretty tough to do. Yeah, we definitely did. It's a new year, but I feel like it's going to be much of the same. So let's get right into it. We decided we wanted to record the other day because of all this Jonathan Drew and stuff that's been coming up. And I think that we're going to spend most of today's show talking about that. So I don't know. I'm just like, what do you make of all of it? Because I know that you like myself are pretty high on the way the Tampa Bay Lightning kind of conduct their business from the top down.

and this is, I have a few issues with the way this has been sort of unfolding, but I'll let you start. So, as you pointed out, I am going to be more inclined, and maybe this is a character flaw. I'm not going to defend Tampa Bay, but I'm more inclined to hear both sides of a discussion when it is a team like Tampa Bay because they just do so much more right than wrong. it's what makes situations like this even the more curious. Like if this had percolated in Columbus right now, I would say, oh, really? Surprise. No surprise.

In Tampa Bay, it's much more interesting. Now, the curious part about this situation has been developing for, what, two years now? This is not, the only thing that's really changed is now Jonathan Joanne has went public with a trade request. So that's really the only development. Tampa Bay, at least from what I'm not. I understand has known about this, the front office for at least a few months. And let's be honest, they've known for way, way more, way, John Cooper has played him, or I should say not played him through long stretches of his career early in his career. I think it's important to say this.

This gets lost on a lot of people. When Stevie Y comes out and says, we wanted him down in the HL to get him minutes, I don't know that Stevie Y has a negative, outlook on the player, but I do know that he knows that his coach certainly does. And I think that's where the reason why he's in the NHL right now is John Cooper does not think he's good enough. And that is just it, point blank, period. He is not good enough to play in the NHL. Now, I think we both will agree that that's just not true. But I do find it interesting that a pretty sensible head coach is so averse to playing this particular player. And, you know, there could be like character stuff that we're not privy to at all.

I don't think that's the case here. I just think they don't think he's that good. And that's really the interesting part. Yeah. I mean, I just don't think we're really going to get the truth from, you know, both sides.

Like, it's just, it's going to be a whole lot of speculation and maybe some rumors will kind of trickle out and whatnot. And I'm sure there's going to be, especially if they wind up, wind up trading him, there's going to be a lot of stuff about Drewann's character and whatnot.

And I don't know. It's kind of silly to me because what he's like 20 years old or something. Like, what 20 year old doesn't have character issues? I'm 24 and I still have some character issues myself. In fairness, I don't think that's, I only posit that because it comes up, I would say, fairly frequently in these situations when you have a player that's this talented and this heralded, I guess, coming out. But I haven't heard a single shred of that here. So I don't think it's in play, but I guess I always put it on my radar.

Right. So I mean, this sort of kind of started to bubble under the surface during the playoffs when I think Druin played in only like five or six games. obviously it's kind of easier to shut up and look the other way when your team's winning and and they made that long playoff run but now that they're kind of struggling here in an Atlantic division and have looked pretty underwhelming for most of the year it's it's kind of taking a life of its own and I think it is a fascinating discussion about where the lightning are coming from with this like on the one hand it totally makes sense that they'd want to send him down to the HL just because he missed a bunch of time with like a lower body injury and you know

you probably want to get him back into game shape. And there definitely are some defensive side of things that he could work on. I mean, every single young player, that's pretty much the case for them. And I don't think there'd be much of an issue other than the fact that the lightning have been pretty underwhelming this year and there's struggle to score goals. And Stamco has struggled himself. And I know you wrote about this at TSN where he just like the team, the linemates he's been playing with are super just not up to his level, right?

Like there's a lot of, I like Alex Coloren fine, but I just don't. think. Ryan Calhann, most common linemate. Right. And like you would think that it would be a perfect marriage of talents because the thing Drew Ann made, did in junior that made him so special. And he's shown flashes over the NHL level is kind of his neutral zone play and his ability to enter the zone with possession and create stuff for his linemates.

And you'd think that with a guy who can shoot it as well as Stamco's can, that be just like a perfect fit. And I don't know if people heading into the year, he was sort of a sleeper for everyone. I'm like, okay, this is going to be finally the year where Drew Ann and Stamco's click and great things happen for the lighting and we just haven't seen it. And I'm kind of, I'm wondering, like, I'm wondering what happened there. And like I said, I'm sure we won't really find out until after he's either traded or we may just we just might never find out.

So this is an interesting dynamic too. And I think I tried to, I guess I glossed over it a bit. But when Steve Iserman says, we're sending him to the HL to get him more minutes, I don't necessarily know that Steve Eisenman agrees with John Cooper's assessment here. It's what I think could be in play, and I'm just throwing this out there. I have no idea what the case is, because we've only heard a few details here. But John Cooper, for the most part, has pressed all of the right buttons, and he probably has close to her as much wiggle room as you can have for a coach with that little tenure outside of, you know, I guess the Quinevilles and the Babcox. He's got a lot of wiggle room.

And he just signed an extension like a couple weeks ago, right? Right. So if you're Steve Eisenman and you, you know, you're obviously John Cooper's boss, but at the same time, he seems to have a really good eye for things and you put real stock into what he's saying. I have no doubt that John Cooper has spoken to that front office and said he's not ready in some way, shape, or form. I don't know that necessarily Steve Eisenman agrees with that, but it puts him in a

weird spot, right? because if you think John Cooper is most of the time right, and even if you disagree here, you're in the position of do I pick a fight with the coach that I really like over a dissenting view of a player? Or do I send him to the H.L. and get him his minutes because the coach just doesn't have any use for him right now in present day. And I think that's important to point out because I know the front office is going to get raked over the coals here, especially if they trade him for pennies on the dollar. But, you know, and maybe that's their fault because, you know, they're the ones who are John Cooper. I like John Cooper as a coach a lot.

So I'm not, I'm not written trying to pin the two against one another. But it's not, it doesn't scream that everyone is necessarily on the same page. They might be on the same page for the greater good. I think that's like worth pointing out because it was very interesting how guarded Iserman was in those quotes about the whole trade discussion and wanting out. And it was basically, it caught us by surprise, so we sent him to the AHA to play more. And it's, well, you didn't really say that you had this adverse outlook on the player. And, you know, most of the time, you're not going to get that because now guys on the trade block. But it just, I don't know, that definitely raised an eyebrow or two.

Yeah, no, I think there's definitely something to that. At the same time, I think that, you know, the lightning are a really well-run organization. And when you talk about organizations like that, it usually is because it's kind of everyone is in lockstep and it's all in unison. right and while there's obviously going to be dissenting opinions in terms of player evaluation you're not two guys aren't always going to see the eye to eye on certain individuals like i think that they're they're probably going to handle this the right way like i'd be pretty surprised if they if they wind up botching this boston bruin style and trading away drouin for like 50 cents on the dollar right like that i still see no reason i mean we need to answer this question though because look i've heard the boston thing brought up and and i get it The thing to remember about that Boston trade and a few of the other trades that have predated this is Tyler Sagan was extremely productive and then he was traded. Jonathan Duran has been okay. Well, you've been given a chance to.

I mean, his rate stats are fine. He plays like, what, 13 minutes a night? I mean, it's pretty hard to excel if your coach doesn't really trust you enough to play even 15 minutes. And to some respect, I agree. but in some respect it's not as if the guy has sat in the press box the entire time. And the point I'm trying to drive at here, and I don't know the answer to this, I don't, I just, I don't know how good he is. I know how good he was in junior and I know how highly touted he was.

And I've seen flashes of his game at the NHL level that are like, holy shit, why doesn't he play more? But beyond that, I don't know that he's been this, yeah, his rate stats are fine, I guess. but I feel like it's not a such a firm and decisive argument against John Cooper here that, yeah, he should be playing way more unless you think, yeah, he belongs on like a third or fourth line role because he's proven he's at least good enough or better than the depth options. And to that, I would absolutely agree. He's clearly better than some of the third or fourth liners that they're playing this year or last year.

But like for like top six role, I don't think there's a reasonable debate there. Yes. but I think that unlike last year, they're like in the, they're in the 20s in terms of five-on-five goal scoring. And I think that they need to do something, right? Like, it would make sense that you'd kind of give him a longer look and see if he can create some sort of magic with a guy like Stamco's or someone else, for example. Like, it just seems like continually going to these Killor and Callahan types, J.T. Brown,

like all these kind of middling bottom six guys and putting them in these roles where they need to play a lot and produce. Like, it's not working. And I think that we can't just keep saying, okay, it's going to be fine. The lightning will eventually figure this out because the year is progressing and eventually it's going to be a concern. Like I remember we adopted them what, probably nearly two months ago now. And we were like, all right, they've kind of struggled, but let's see a little bit more.

And we haven't necessarily really seen that much more from them since then. Yep. So would it be fair to say, because I think you can make some assumptions here. I think it'd be fair to say that if John Cooper is probably, concerned about his off the puck defensive zone play more than anything else. So this is the part where I'll pick a bone with John Cooper because I get it. He's not great defensively. Few people his age are.

And even the forward to are great defensively at his age. Usually they can't score worth the hell. So it's kind of a necessary tradeoff when you're that young and I guess undeveloped and experienced. But, Dave, getting back to your point, the thing I could not agree more with is that they need to start looking for ways to reshape or recraft what they're doing because the status quo. And that doesn't necessarily mean like a complete overhaul, but sometimes just tweaking things a little bit. And I wrote about this about the Anaheim ducks today.

And it's so, it's so funny how it comes together. But like that Anaheim team is just steamrolling of late. And so much of it is just simple, to me, simple tweaks of giving younger guys more ice time on the back end and taking minutes away from guys like Clayton Stone. and like it seems subtle because you don't you don't necessarily notice Clayton Stoner playing two or two and a half minutes less a night, you know, over a couple of games. But after 10, 15, 20 games, the effects become more pronounced. And I don't know, like it's sometimes it can be just something as simple as, okay, let's put Jonathan Drew in and in a role where he could succeed. And we're going to play him 16, 17 minutes a night. We're going to give him some rope to work with.

And we're not going to staple him to the bench if he makes a defensive zone miscue. And, you know, that's kind of the part where I think John Cooper is, I think it's fair to say he's going to try and burn some of his equity here because I feel like he is pretty convinced that he's not ready for the NHL. And that, that to me is just so, so fascinating because he's clearly better than some of the depth. And that's a pretty good team, pretty talented team. There's some depth options there. And I still, I still would pretty convincingly argue he's better than at least the depth options they have. So that's where I think, like, it's interesting to. see Cooper really digging in here because he is.

Yeah. No, he definitely is. I don't know. I guess we'll kind of see how the story progresses and touch on it a bit more once. We kind of have a little clarity. So one other thing we should talk about is in the, well, actually, there's a couple of things. So now we know that Jonathan Drew Ann wants out and he's requested to trade. Right. You know, every jam in the league, I'm sure, has pretty much called the Tampa Front Office to find out what the price would be. I think it was Jim Benning came out and said the asking price was

ridiculously high, which you would expect. I mean, that's why would Tampa Bay say anything else? But I can't remember if it was Elliot Freeman's 30 thoughts or it was somewhere very reputable that what Tampa Bay was one of the things in that entangled in that price was a right shot defenseman that could play in their top four. And I found that almost. as interesting as even the whole Jonathan Joanne situation because to me it screams that Tampa Bay feels like their problem right now could be remediated or at least partly addressed

by bringing in another defenseman into the fold. How do you feel about that? I think that's a pretty fair concern. I mean, headman and straw when we've talked about this are one of the, what, five best pairings in the league, I think. But then after that, like, it's just a whole lot of disappointment and I'm kind of curious to see if they do wind up trading Drew,

and I think ultimately they're going to dump at least one or two of these kind of contracts that we've circled back to us saying are going to be issues when they have to re-sign headmen and the triplets and whatnot, right? And if they want to bring Stamco's back, of course. So like Matt Carl, for example, has two more years at 5.5 mil per, and he's just not very good at hockey anymore. And they're asking him to do a lot. And guys like Garrison, who doesn't really have it anymore,

and Braden Coburn. and there's definitely a need there for a guy that can come in and give them 20 or so minutes reliably, so they're not just kind of relying on headman and straw men as much as they are. So I think that's definitely like that. And I guess finding someone who can help them score some goals are the two biggest concerns. So I was going through the millions and millions of trade proposals that people were floating out on Twitter. and I have to say one of them intrigued me because they want a right shot defenseman and they would probably, I'm assuming, like a guy who's got many miles in front of them

and not behind them. The idea of a Tampa Bay Ottawa swap is curious because these two teams have traded in the past and Ottawa, I believe in the same 30 thoughts column had talked about clearing up one of the players on their blue line. Apparently they were trying to trade Patrick Weircotch like Mad Men early in the year. Now they're trying to trade Jared Cowan and it's like, no one is going to trade for him. So don't even waste your breath. But Cody Cc is interesting, right? Because he qualifies almost exactly to the type of defenseman that Tampa Bay I would assume would want. Now, I have some reservations about how good Cody Cici actually is. He plays a ton of

minutes, but beyond that, I don't think he's very good right now. He's a very average defenseman, I would say. But it's an interesting trade theory then because it's like, okay, underperforming Jonathan Drewann versus underperforming Cody C.C., both guys, really high draft picks. C.C., at least to his credit, is playing a ton of minutes. And you know GMs value that a lot because GMs perceive a lot of ice time as the other team finds the guy really reliable and productive. And the Andy McDonnell. Yeah, it's exactly the case. So I have to say that was one, because I know, I know, I'm assuming we're next going to talk about potential landing spots. The other part of that is what Ottawa has screamed about for three years, and that's a need for another forward.

I wonder if there could be something there because the whole, that Cody Cici makes a lot of sense for Tampa Bay. Jonathan Druin makes a lot of sense for Ottawa. I doubt, you know, it's not going to be a one-for-one swap. There would have to be more pieces involved for sure, especially on the Ottawa end. But that is one interesting theory that I came about that I did. not immediately say, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. I was like, yeah, it might be something there. Well, I mean, I don't know how they, like, I feel like Ottawa would have to make a few more concessions there. Like, I feel like, Cody Cici is probably not enough. I don't know, like, it's interesting

that you say you're not a fan of Cody Cici because I know that people are sort of divided on him. Like, I don't watch as much senators as you, I'm sure. But when I have watched them, like, you can definitely see sort of like the physical tools there that jump off the screen where you're like, okay, I can see why people have liked him, but he sort of reminds me of joltz in a way where it's like he's just out of position a lot. And I don't know, he's a few years younger than joltz. So maybe it's something that can be ironed out. And I don't know, maybe someone like Steve Eiserman looks at that and goes like, okay, well, with our coaching staff, we can like use these tools that he has and put it all together. But yeah, I don't know. He definitely leaves a little bit to be desired,

especially if you're going to rely on him in a big role. Yeah. So on the positive side, he does have the physical tools for sure. He's a pretty decent passer. He's obviously a mobile skater. Those are all huge benefits because you can't really teach those. The negatives, I would say, are certainly skates and plays a lot harder than he is effective. He's the anti-Anton-Strauman in that case, right? Because Anton Strzman's made a career out of doing as little as humanly possible

and just being unbelievably productive in the rare, in the rare. instance that he actually has to move, right? It's like that he does everything that's simple really well. And that's how he's reduced his game and really made an unbelievable NHO career out of it. Cici's kind of the opposite. He's just constantly going everywhere on the ice as much as humanly possible. And maybe that's a lot of young defensemen trying to make an impact everywhere. But I almost seem like he skates himself more into trouble than he does anywhere else. I will say this, he strikes me as extremely fixable. Like I don't even want to say he's broken, but I just don't think he's a very good defenseman right now.

Two, three years from now, I would definitely want to reconsider that. Because there are some young defense, and I'm like, he doesn't have a chance of ever being good in this league. I look at Cody Cic, and I'm like, he could absolutely be a solid number two, number three, if everything goes well. He's just not that right now, and that's how he's being played. In a trade between these two teams, I would think, and by the way, I think Elia Freeman also, mentioned Ottawa as one of the potential landing spots for Drew. And that was another connection that I thought was curious. But I do think that Ottawa would have to include something else,

even if Tampa Bay perceived CC as a player with high value today and tomorrow. My issue with Ottawa as a trade partner is they'd probably have to eat some salary coming back, like in a Ryan Callahan or Matt Carl type. And they've been kind of on the record as being fairly stingy with how they spend their money. So I'm kind of curious how that would work in a deal. So one of the ways that they could get out of it is if they were willing to part ways with a player whose term was set to expire. And they had intentions of extending because that's dead future money then. He's off the books and there's no money going to be committed.

So they might have to bite a bullet for three months. As far as I know, they are more than up against it dollars-wise. they more than anything else would like to shave salary right now. I can't even imagine how bad it is. But so to your point, I think that would be a very big hurdle. I don't think Tampa Bay would trade Ryan Callahan, by the way. I think they like him and I don't know why. I mean, I can guess.

But that's like their one move. I'm just bobbing and weaving on. I'm like, I don't get it. I don't get it. No matter how many ways you spend this, he's just not very productive anymore. But yeah, I mean, like, he's a fine enough player. Like, you know, there's worse options. Like, it's not like he's completely useless.

The problem is that he's making $5.8 million a year for a couple of years now. And they're going to need that space to lock some of these other younger guys up. Like, that would be a huge benefit to them if they could get that or Matt Carl's 5.5 off the books. So I think they would like to get Matt Carl's contract off the book. Especially they're getting a defenseman back. Yeah. So maybe there's your, uh, all right. So, you could spin this a number of ways, but I either, macro level, I think there's definitely

something that could be there. I think St. Louis could be another team that would be involved here. I don't know what the necessary return would be. I just feel like they are a team that's earmarked for we need to get more talent. Well, I talked about this with Craig Custin's on the show before the, before the new year, and he was throwing out the idea that they might want to get ahead of the curve and get max value. out of Kevin Shattankirk now while they still can before they have to pay him. And he has another year left on his deal after this one.

And I mean, she'd look pretty nice on Tampa Bay. And that'd be an interesting move because St. Louis is also a team that's kind of up against it financially. And getting a guy like Druan who's still cheap on his RFA deal would be a pretty enticing proposition. I feel like that's a trade that would be fascinating. When does Drouin expire? I think he's till 2016-17. But then he has a lot.

He has a bunch of RFA years after that as well. Okay. So yeah, that'd be fascinating. I think two other teams that don't necessarily have the, you know, win now defensive options to give the lightning. But if they kind of wanted like a package of prospects or whatnot just to turn back the clock, I guess, a bit would be both the coyotes and the hurricanes. Like those are two teams that can eat contracts coming back the other way and are of the mold. They just kind of need to take these chances on a potentially elite young talent. Well, you got Chris Pronger who's still suiting up for the coyotes, getting eight part ways with him.

Oh, and don't forget, Nicholas Grossman, too. That was another one. It was Benick McCollock, yeah, these guys are. I guess in any forward that gets on the market that has value, just by the nature of the way the league is set up right now and the way Nashville is situated, any instance where you have a forward on the market and the request is any sort of defenseman, you can throw Nashville into that discussion as well. because, again, the Predators are a legitimately good team. They have this unbelievable luxury of a bunch of really good defensemen, and then Che Weber at the end of that. And they have a pressing need for a forward.

I think they would like a center, a true established center. But I think you could include them. And we talked about Nashville. One of the first podcasts we did is like one of these teams that just seems so, like almost a guarantee to make a really big trade in the, the coming bumps. And I, more than ever, and I kind of got into a mini rant about this last night, and it wasn't, it wasn't by intention or design, but, man, they can really do something great. If they can trade, if they can get Shea Weber off the books and get a very serious asset in return or two,

because you know the way Shea Weber is valued around the league. You could replace Shea Weber with a defenseman in a deal and still get an impact forward because there are, GMs, I would bet most of the GMs around the league value Shea Weber as a top five defense. Yeah, I was going to say top 10 for sure. Yeah, absolutely. I think they would go as far. I think you could, I think you could get 20 of 30 GMs on record today putting him in the top five. I think you could do that. And then that's, I think you would get Carlson, Suba, and Dowdy to a man in that in that top five. But I just don't know that you would get anyone else consistently above Shea Weber after that. And in some cases, is the way some GMs think or have spoken in the past. I'm led to believe that Shea Weber might be above all three of those guys, which is, I mean, it's just total insanity. He's just not even close.

He's not even in the same world as those three defensemen. And if you're in Nashville here, you can, you're, you are so well situated to make a really, really big trade and, and basically you can put Shea Weber up, get that. And let's be honest, too, that contract is horrific now. Right. Because now you've lost, you're losing. I don't want to say loss, but you're losing the years where he was supposed to be this really impactful defenseman. His numbers just keep sliding year after year after year.

And now you're starting to get into the years where the contract is poisonous, right? Like he's getting older. And look, it's easy for me to say to trade Shea Weber from, you know, a Skype phone call. But so I don't give away our secrets, okay? Yeah, right. I get, I get why a GM would be very gun shy about trading Shea Weber, especially if you think he really keys that team's success. I just don't think there's any evidence there that he does. And if they could get a situation where they could do a one for two deal to get a forward,

forward back or a forward defenseman back, how do you not do that right now? Yeah. I mean, I don't even think, like I understand that, you know, they take sort of a PR hit if they did that deal. And he's probably super popular in Nashville and there's a bunch of Prederers fans that own his jerseys and, you know, know all about him. And he's been there since the beginning. But like, I'm not really sure.

the team would be much worse at all if you just replaced him with like a generic replacement level defenseman and then added a forward in that deal. Like that is that's a no brainer to me, but I kind of understand that it would be tough. And I'm not like people have pointed out when we talked about potential trade, Rishie Weber trades in the past that the recapture penalty on his contract might kind of be a monkey wrench in a deal like that. That's it's a very fair point. And it's probably the biggest consideration in any deal, right? Like the financials behind that, it's not like Nashville's Toronto. Dude, Travis, he makes $24 million combined over the next two seasons.

That's insane. Even beyond the cap hit, it's just madness. Again, I don't even think he's a top 20 defensemen in the league anymore. He's a fine player, but he's just not in that same quality as a lot of the guys I named. Last thing on that, as I'm discussing this yesterday, and let me be clear to. I know we talked about this briefly in the past when we did the Colorado podcast, and we said that they might be a team that would be willing to get Shea Weber in a big trade. But the big reason why people are so divided on Shea Weber is when you're an elite high-end first-cut defenseman,

and we've seen this from as long as the underlying numbers have been readily available, 2007, 2008, you drive play. It doesn't matter how good or how bad your team is. They are always better with you on the ice, whether it's from goals or scoring chances or shot differential. Right. Shea Weber had the goal aspect for a few years. The shot differentials were never really kind to him.

They were when Ryan Suter was there. But as soon as Ryan Suter left, they've started to slide. Really, the first season, I should say, would be that 2012-2013 season. I think he's been a consistently negative shot differential player and an increasingly negative shot differential player for like three or four years now. And you just, again, people point out to me, well, it's because Nashville's, you know, so well-rounded. It's, okay, find me another defenseman, another first-faring defenseman on another good, bad average team, whatever you want to call it. Dowdy, Keith, Carlson, Subon, whoever you want to go to, you're never going to see them outshot relative to what their team does.

It just never happens. And the only times it happens is when a player is basically starting to lose his touch. That's the big concern. And I get that Nashville knows, I look, I, look, I. recognize that there's a lot of defensive talent back there more so than what you see on a team like in Ottawa or a Montreal. But it doesn't justify being like four or five points worse than shot the French when you're on the ice. It's just stop with the quality of competition stuff. Stop. It's just not. It doesn't hold up to any kind of argument. And again, I'm more than willing to entertain a, hey, here is a, you know, a logical reason as to why Shea Weber's are terrible relative to where other defenders are.

But I just haven't seen it. The justifications are very anecdotal. total to me. Right. Well, I think luckily for the Predators, like, I think they're going, if they do wind up going down that path and eventually trying to trade them, like, I think they have plenty of time before perception kind of and reality match up, right? Like, I think we're still at least a couple years away from people being like, oh, wow, maybe Shea Weber is not as good as he used to be and as we thought he was anymore. Like, because just the way some people defend him these days, it, like, it just leads me to believe that that's still far down the road. Like, I don't know, he's such a polarizing figure and I don't really understand why.

Like, just purely from like the high test, right? It's not even like numbers. The numbers are, as you pointed out, one thing, but like just watching them. Like, guys like Roman Yose are just so much better than him. Like, I don't get it at all. Yeah. So some Predators fans I was interacting with a night ago, I would say at least half of them are very receptive to the idea.

Actually, I would say more than that. Maybe some of them wouldn't act upon a trade right now. And I recognize that you're in a very tough position. if you're trying to trade Che Weber as the legitimate playoff team because he's still a good defenseman. Here's the thing. I would say more than half of the people, brothers fans that I spoke, you know, was reading the mentions on Twitter to the discussion about. We're saying something along the lines of, yeah, he just doesn't look as good as he used to. And there were two separate tweets, and it's very easy to remember from two different people who pointed out that he probably plays the most, quote, safe, end quote, game on the team by Amai.

It's a lot of pucks off the boards and out and really just trying to suppress goals against, I would say, and playing that very safe brand of hockey. And to me, that's how often the case with a lot of these defensemen who bleed shots and scoring chances is they turn the puck over. It's just not recorded as a turnover when you go up the boards and out. The puck still comes back in your defensive zone and you're still trying to play the same sound structural hockey. And look, if you're driving the puck in on Shea Weber, you're going to have one hell of a time because he's a mule. It's so hard to get around him. He's so physical.

I just think that when the puck is on his stick or when he doesn't drive much offense, and I think that's probably the reason why you're starting to see those numbers slide. It's such a big, it's such a big discussion to have, though, because he is really the one player, I think the stats community is really driving against lately. I think there have been other cases like an Andrew McDonald's in the past, but, like, even he was never really impactful. It was just like people thought he was okay and he was horrific. And, you know, a lot of those, like, you know, the Clarksons and the Bolins, like, everyone was like, eh, they're okay.

And we were like, they're terrible. This isn't that case. It's really like they're saying he's unbelievable. And we're like, yeah, he's okay. And that's kind of, again, it gets back to your point, I guess, if perception meets reality. And when they actually act on that. But either way, like, I think that is like the, it's a thing in Nashville, whether the front office wants to admit it or not. Yeah.

definitely um okay let's let's let's let's hit a couple more things before we get out of here um in that in that eliot friedman 30 thoughts that you referenced in the whole druan thing did you see the uh the anecdote about dust and bufflin and and the panthers and the caps potentially being two landing spots for him so i mean dust and buffling on washington oh my god yeah we're gonna have to move to washington man that's the fit that i need to see because if i'm watching him t shots up with alex ovechkin on his side and oh that gives me the warm feelings just how about how about coming across the ice when you've got ovechkin in bufflin just trying to maim you in the neutral zone how about that yeah screw it man just put just put them on the right wing with backsterman ovechkin and just go with that

top line just that's what i want to see that'd be amazing um florida i i don't know i i get the connection right is that the best fit though right now another expiring deal no it's not it's not it's i think the washington one is fascinating and obviously see a lot of it hinges on Brooks Swarpick going on LTIR and apparently that's not really going to happen like he should be back sooner rather than later. So I don't know how they're going to be able to make that work money-wise. Again, I would echo the Washington thoughts. Another team that I would like to see him on if Dustin Bufflin is eventually moved away, I'd like to see him in Pittsburgh. I think that could make a lot of sense. They would have to get a bit creative with the cap. But look,

for as bad as Pittsburgh has been the first half of the year relative to our expectations, and for as messy as everything that's gone on from October through, I guess, today about, they are very much in the playoff hunt. They have their window is now. Like, this is the chance. You only have so many more years of Crosby and Malkin. They have a obvious pressing need for a defenseman. This is another connection.

And again, I've heard, and I think I've said this once before, that Penguins fans are concerned about their futures and rebuilding the stock. But look, the Penguins at some point are going to have to rebuild anyway. I don't know why they're concerned about trading future draft decks, even though they've already traded some. Their window of intent is now. And let's be honest, that Eastern Conference, Sons, Washington is just not like that impressive right now. The window is very open still for them. Right.

Yeah. I mean, this is like hockey. It's not the NFL or the NBA. where you're going to get a guy in the first round that's going to immediately step in and make your team significantly better unless you're picking in the top couple picks of the draft. And based on how good guys like Crosby and Malkin are, the penguins aren't ever going to bottom out like that while they're still there. So it makes no sense to me to kind of freak out about trading those mid to late first round

picks if it's going to get you a guy that can help right now. Like definitely there is no future after these guys. Like you can't even think about it that way. You kind of just have to try and win another cup while they're still around. Yep. Yeah. So I think that's kind of much. There are probably, other than Washington and Pittsburgh,

there probably at least another handful of teams that would make sense. Well, I mean, every team. Yeah, yeah. Relative to, I guess, the other teams, I would put Florida pretty well there. I don't see why Florida should do anything more than Tinker with the current situation. I think that's a plus plus situation for the most part. They're going to have to pay Alex Barkoff like 200 bill to keep. him around. We talked about that a couple weeks ago. One of the thing, though, getting back to, I forgot to mention this when we were talking about that Tampa Bay, Ottawa theory. Jared Cowan? You want to talk about Jared Cowan? Yeah, right. No. Interesting thing I heard today, and I've heard this for a couple weeks, and I know it's kind of a few people have, I guess, kind of reported on it, but I don't know if anyone's really given this any attention nationally. The Clark MacArthur story is pretty dark.

It doesn't sound like he's coming back to hockey anytime soon. He's been out now for about three months without a shred really of national reporting or any kind of better at all. Yeah, because there's no, they're keeping, for lack of better phrasing, unfortunately, they're keeping it very in the dark because I don't think any real progress has been made. That's obviously there's cap ramifications there. There's roster ramifications there depending on what they do with. him, but the way people talk about his injury status is not good. It's not good. It's very guarded and it's very, very long term. And I guess that's a fairly easy thing to point out when a guy's three months out with a concussion with not a word about it. But I feel like that's been

lost in the shuffle. And that's really unfortunate because Clark MacArthur like two years ago was the prize to steal a free agency. He was super productive still. Him and tourists were awesome. together. They were a great one to punch. Yeah. And he never really, at any point, even, and that's, I never understood why Toronto, there are a lot of things I didn't understand about Toronto back then. But, like, he was, you would think he's the player that hockey people are drawn to, because he's, he's a productive score. But when he's not scoring, he's a smart defensive player. And, and I think you saw that in the years he was signed out of Toronto. And with, you saw it in Toronto, too, but you saw it with Ottawa especially.

He gets a big contract, but I feel like this has not been talked about at all. And it's like, to me, it's a pretty big story because he is not some like third or fourth line guy who's just going to quietly, you know, fold out of the league. And then he said, oh, what happened to him? Oh, you had a really bad concussion, bad post-concussion symptoms. And you never really saw him again. But like that, like, that's the vibe. I don't want to say that that's what happening, but that's the vibe I'm getting with him. And that's a huge blow to him.

and the team. And it was just funny that we had mentioned that, I guess, Ottawa in any potential trade briefly, because that was something that in the past couple of days I've been talking to people about, and I think it was worth at least mention. Yeah, no, that's a bummer, man. I mean, he was really fun to watch, as you mentioned,

and a very productive player. And Ottawa is definitely a team that could use his help. Like, they don't have any depth at all to speak of. And obviously, there's more important life ramifications then what he can contribute to the senators. So hopefully he recovers and lives a long and productive life before even thinking about hockey. Yeah. The last little note before we get out of here, I saw that Rick West had a TSN reported that the NHL,

just on the same line of concussion stuff, that the NHL is going to some committee for a concussion discussion. And I'm just, I'm so amazed by this whole thing that the NHL is. is actually actively participating in concussion treatment and whatnot when like have you by the way I've been meaning to ask you this for a while have you seen a single instance this year seen or read or witnessed whatever of a concussion spotter at a game identifying a concussion and that player getting pulled out of a game no not not a single time wasn't that supposed to be the big thing this year that these concussion spotters who by the way are not medically qualified they're just

random guys because the league doesn't want to pay doctors they have no power. They're kind of like project managers in a big corporation who have, you know, no, no one reports to them, so they're just kind of useless. That's the vibe I'm getting. And I feel like with all the lawsuits floating around and all of the discussion about concussion awareness in this movie obviously out now that I guess glosses over much of the concussion problem, but at least puts on the radar for a lot of people how big of an issue it was for

the NFL. It's like a, to me, it's a major thing. thing, right? It's going to be something that appears in a future pleading. The NHL retained 60 concussion spotters. Two years to date, they've pulled zero people from the ice. Yeah. No, it's one of those things. It's definitely like an empty gesture where they're like, they're just doing this to kind of cover their asses where they can be like, look, we are doing something. We have these spotters in the crowd, but it actually hasn't led to anything and it hasn't really helped at all. And I don't know. It's a joke. I just, I just, you know, and again, I reserve the right here because I could be

wrong about this. It could be something that's done very quietly where someone speaks to a coach and that player is removed. I just highly doubt that that's going on because, I mean, how many hits have you seen this year where there's an obvious concussion or an obvious blow to the head, I should say, that leaves a player dazed. And it's in any spot where me or you or anyone, even with a totally untrained, unqualified eye, I would say, yeah, that player should probably come off the ice and be checked and he's out there for the next shift. Yeah. And especially if it's like a tight game and it's one of the teams more important players. Like, I find it hard to believe that some random guy from sitting in the stands is going to get,

get that player off of the ice and into the quiet room for a long enough time to actually see what's going on there. Like, it's, it's all just an empty gesture. Yeah. So we just ended this on a grave and dark note. Okay, let's throw the listeners a bone. Let's get them excited for next time we record. Who do we want to adopt?

Spin your wheel. Spin your wheel. I'm honestly trying to remember who we've actually adopted so far. I guess it doesn't really matter. If it's someone we adopted in the first month of the season, it's probably so much has changed that we can probably just do it again

and it won't really matter. But I feel like maybe a team like the Islanders or something. I remember we did a New York podcast where we did The Devils and the Rangers, but I don't think we used to talk much about the Islanders. Yeah, we can do a little bit of the Islanders. I heard they're delaying the push in Nassau Coliseum. That was the big news story, the Islanders for the past month.

So let's do Islanders and let's do the Bruins. we've definitely not done let's prioritize the Bruins I'm making an executive decision that the Bruins go to the front on virtue of we haven't talked about them and I think they're pretty good and Claude Julian's doing it again

yeah well have you seen them the past two nights without Brad Marjohn yeah in fairness hasn't looked very good all right yeah we'll save that for next time before we get out of here let me thank a couple of people who have donated to the show

Joe Wallington David Frescoes Chris Sharp and Brandon Gerschek thanks for your help and we will be back later in the week, Travis. So people have a lot of Bruins talk to look forward to. Yeah, I'm sure there will be no heated discussion about that from people in my mention. Cool, man.

We'll talk soon. All right. The Hockey PDOCast, online at HockeyPedioCast.com. Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and at Travis Yost.