The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 46: Mr.600

Episode Date: January 7, 2016

James Mirtle joins the show to weigh in on the job Mike Babcock has done with the Maple Leafs thus far, and whether it's more surprising that he's never won a Jack Adams Trophy in his career or that he's in the discussion this year. We also chat about Mirtle's story that got the ball rolling on Stamkos potentially leaving Tampa Bay, how fun the World Juniors were to watch, and what it was like to see Jarome Iginla in person as he was coming up with the Kamloops Blazers. Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show. There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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James, how's it going, man? Good, man. How are you? I'm good. We'd obviously been planning this for some time now, but let's just go with the convenient thing about how today's the marks the anniversary of Randy Carlisle being fired by the Leafs. So it's kind of fitting that we have you on. I guess so, yeah, for some reason, I've become, I became kind of the voice of it. But, you know, I think that anyone that followed analytics and believes in what the possession numbers state would have said the same thing about Randy Carlisle

and that his system just long-term wasn't going to produce results. And it's amazing that the debate continues even a year later over, you know, some people say they shouldn't have fired them because they were in a playoff spot and things like this. You know, I think that Brenda Shanahan saw that they were on the verge of going off the cliff and they tried to save the season by firing Randy Carle and ultimately didn't end up working. Yeah, it's funny. You mentioned that. You have been kind of linked as the anti-Carlyle guy. And I think that it's just because of the market, I guess you're in, right? Like, maybe it's changed a little bit now, but especially back then a couple years ago, like, I feel like you were one of the few Toronto-based media guys that was actually kind of pointing this stuff out as opposed to just spewing this mindless gibberish about how Carlisle had figured out, like, how to beat analytics and whatnot. So I think that has a lot to do with it. I remember that story really distinctly because I interviewed Eric Tulski about the Leafs

and asked for some of his conclusions for what he thought was going to happen with the team. And he said essentially that what they were doing was completely unsustainable and that they couldn't continue to win games like that. And the caveat that he had is that it was a shortened season and there wasn't a lot of time left in the year. So perhaps their collapse wasn't going to come until the following season, which ultimately would end up happening. But it was a very controversial article when I wrote it.

and, you know, I got a lot of stuff, you know, when you say I became the anti-Carlyle guy, I get accused by other media people and fans of having a vendetta or having something personal against Randy Carlisle, and that couldn't be further from the truth. I mean, I never had any bad blood or anything like that with Randy Carlisle. To his credit, he was always very professional with me and never singled me out or went after me or anything like that. and it was purely a result of the data and the numbers and what people like Eric saw in them, and what I too believed was there.

So it's been an interesting three or four years in Toronto trying to bring some of this data to light and bring it to the fans. And hopefully what's happened with the Leafs, hopefully there's been some buy-in from the fan base that, yeah, there is something to this kind of analysis. Right. I'm sure there is. But, okay, let's get into why they're interesting now and will be for the next handful of years to come.

And I think that a good place to start is Mike Babcock. And I know that you've recently written an article about how surprising it is that he's never, he doesn't have a Jack Adams to his name and whether he's in it kind of in the main discussion this year to finally get that award. and I guess, I don't know, like what's more surprising to you, the fact that he's never won one before, the fact that he's actually in the discussion this year where I feel like most people thought that it would be a very kind of slow transformation where the Leafs weren't even going to try to really win any games this year. Well, he should have won one by now. And I think what happens, and there was this debate even when the Leafs hired him, and the kind of detractors that are either the same detractors as always when you write something about the Leafs,

people in Ottawa or Montreal or West that they just hate the leaves. And they said, well, Mike Babcock had that suit and Lidsstrom and, you know, whatever, in Detroit, which is true. I mean, for a lot of his time, there he had some good teams. But there were years where he didn't, you know, there were years where he didn't have good teams in Anaheim and got results. And I think we're seeing very clearly this year that regardless of roster, Mike Babcock makes a difference. You know, and it's been a much bigger difference than I had anticipated. and, you know, on the face of it, if you look at it at the very most superficial level,

people look at the standings and they say, well, the Leaves aren't good, therefore, Mike Dobcock's not making a difference, which I don't think could be, that's totally ridiculous. I mean, if you look at some of the underlying numbers for the Leaves, it's very, very clear that with a weaker roster than they had last year, he's making quite a big difference, and the Leagues are tracking right now, based on how they've played since early November, for about at least a 20-point in the standings. I mean, that's pretty substantial given that no one expected anything other than this Leaves team coming into the year. Yeah, well, and I think that even just looking at the player personnel, right, like you mentioned that the roster is not very good itself.

I mean, he's put guys in positions to succeed, whether it's Tyler Bozac, kind of giving him minutes that are more suitable for a guy with his skill set and more offensively oriented role. And Dionnev, for example, making his life a lot easier. And guys like Leo Komarov and P.A. Parento, and the list goes on and on of how, he's done a he's kind of put together a masterclass of just how to make your talent look as best as it possibly can and that's going to definitely benefit them come to trade deadline where they're possibly going to be able to move some of these pieces for picks and prospects and whatnot but I don't know it's interesting I know that you noted it in that column where maybe the like the jack Adams is just sort of a flawed award in the sense that usually the guy that wins it is is the guy

that has a lot of luck and and balances his way and it's usually you can basically just sort by PDO and go like, okay, well, this team kind of came out of nowhere and surprised people, so their coach is probably going to win the Jack Adams. And Babcock's teams have generally been regarded as a very consistently successful bunch. So I think those two things go hand in hand where there's probably a reason why he hasn't won it. Yeah, and it's great now that we have more statistics so we can measure things like coaching, and what exactly does a system impact? What does it do?

And, you know, part of the reason why, and, you know, analysts are excited about what Babcock's done with the Leafs are some systematic things that we haven't really seen show up in our results yet. You know, first in the league in shot attempts permitted on the power play, I think they're second in the league in shot attempts against on the penalty kill. I mean, these are indicators that the lease are going to have, especially when the roster gets better and they have better players, the least you're going to have elite special teams. And that's very, very linked to coaching, especially in the NHL now.

you know, it's very system-based how your power play or your penalty kill succeeds. And at even strength, we've seen that coaching changes can have a huge impact on puck possession numbers, and the Leafs are up almost 5%. So, you know, you add those things together, and we can tangibly measure the effect that a coach can sometimes have should make it easier to vote for the right kind of coaches, as opposed to just picking guys like Patrick Waugh or Bob Hartley that I don't think. think really had that big of an impact on their team's success those years.

Yeah, for sure. Well, let's talk about that roster getting better. It's interesting. I feel like there was a lot of murmuring and whatnot about this topic, but your story sort of broke it wide open in mid-December when you wrote that article about how what Stamco's future in Tampa Bay. And the one big takeaway I had for me, I guess was the most surprising thing to me was, I don't know if this stuff just flew under the radar or whether it was being discussed

and I just wasn't paying attention at the time, but that nugget about how the sabres and the lightning were talking about an ICO for Stamco swap. I thought that was fascinating. Like, by your sense, how close was that actually to happening? Or was it just sort of one of those, like, surface rumors that never actually had any traction? That's, I mean, it depends, you ask.

I mean, some people think that that's absurd and that it shouldn't have been reported. And some people, the thing that I'm pretty confident in saying is that Buffalo and Tampa had some, some kind of a discussion. And if you go to the next level, I mean, what would Buffalo had to have given up

to get a Stephen Stampcoe in a trade like that, assuming that they were going to be able to resign him long term, which was what I heard was the hurdle in getting a deal done is that they wanted an extension and Stamcoast wasn't willing to do that.

You know, what would Buffalo have had to give up an elite talent? And you look at that roster last year and there's not, there wasn't a lot of options there. I mean, I think that realistically,

if they were going to try and pull off that trade, that Eichol would be the guy, they would have to move. So some people think that that was discussed. But neither of those GMs is saying anything, and that's why there's been kind of this, I don't want to call it confusion. There's been a hesitancy in the media, I think, to report strongly one way or the other on what's happening here

just because of how quiet that Tim Murray and Steve Eisener and have been able to keep it. And on me and too, you know, Stamco's agent, hasn't been out in the open saying what's going to happen. And it's going to be really, really interesting here what happens. Yeah, well, and the other big takeaway I had, and I guess it wasn't necessarily a surprise because it's something that we'd heard about in the past,

and it had to do with the kind of impasse between Stamco's and the head coach John Cooper in Tampa Bay, where they have a fundamental difference in opinion in terms of where they think Stamco should be playing. Obviously, he wants to play down in the middle as most guys do, and Cooper thinks he's better suited on the wing. And I don't know, it's like an endlessly fascinating topic. for me just purely because we've recently seen it kind of surface again with this whole

Cooper versus Jonathan Drewann Rift and how they're not seeing eye to eye. And I don't know, it's interesting. Like I obviously think Cooper is a legitimately bright progressive coach. He's one of the one of the guys that can really move the needle in the league where there aren't very many of them. And the lightning clearly agree with me in that regard considering they just gave an extension. But it's just like where there's smoke, there's fire. And it's interesting that the lightning seem to be siding with the coach over the player talent, which is an interesting thing to do to say the least, considering it is a players league and obviously kind of talent wins out.

Like, what do you make of that entire situation with how Cooper has been handling his players and if there's any actual validity to it, I guess? I think that this is the Lightning Organization and Steve Eiserman saying that, you know, we decide who the coach is not the players. And, you know, that it's a top-down, way messaging to the players that, you know, we're not going to, if you're not happy playing

here, you're not happy sitting out, or you're not happy going to the minors, you're not going to the minors, you're not going to affect change with who the coach is. So it's an interesting message. You know, it's, it's, maybe Steve Eisener to pick some of that up from playing under Scotty Bowman and, you know, some of the kind of disciplinary and types that, that ran the teams that he played on. So that's, that's my take on that. I'm with you. I think John Cooper's a very good coach. But it's a tough pill if a very good coach costs you

some very good talent because it's hard to find that talent and puts the pressure on Steve Eiserman to have to make perhaps not only one good trade with Duran going somewhere but potentially too if they have to look at moving Stamcoast either at the trade deadline or maybe try and get something

for him before free agency if that's the route that Stamcoe decides to go. Yeah, not for sure. I guess a logical way to wrap up this Stamco's discussion is with the Leafs angle. And I was recently having a chat with someone in the league who I won't name. And when I brought up that there's sort of this pushback, there's a segment of the fan base, the Leaves fan base that doesn't want their team to go after Stamco's, he was just baffled that someone would actually think that, that you wouldn't jump at the chance

to bring in a superstar like he is. You have a better sense of this. Like, what's the appetite like in Toronto for Stamco's? Because obviously, when the Lightning were there. recently, the media turnout and sort of how that was covered was insane. But I don't know, like, it's an interesting roster construction debate. And I know you've written about this. So I guess I would, I'll leave the floor to you here. Yeah, it is really interesting. And I tried to look at that, the sort of cap implications of bringing in, I mean, I think that if Stamco signs here, it's going

to be a 10 and a half, $11 million a year contract. And, you know, the leaves have some, some bad deal like De Anfinoff and Joffrey Lupal, uh, sort of guming up there. It's a their cap situation for the coming years. So, you know, they could afford to bring in Stamco's. They do have the cap space, but it's not going to leave them with much maneuverability to do anything else. And, you know, it makes you wonder if

they bring in Nielander and Marner and Stamco's next year, is that enough? Is that enough for the team to take the next step? And I don't think it is. So that doesn't mean you don't go against Stamco's. That just means that it's a more complex discussion than

just saying you've got to go get the guy. And that's what a lot of people in Toronto have been saying for a long time, you know, anyone in the media, a lot of the fan base just says, yeah, if you can get TAMCOs, you got to do it. It's like, well, what if he wants $12 million? What if, you know, you need to project out what he's going to be, certainly

at the midpoint of that deal, but even towards the end. And I think the management team, the Leifes have employees now, is going to do that. I think they're going to look at the long-term implications of signing his TAMCOs, and they're going to try and determine if he's worth that kind of a contract. And, you know, in the

salary cap era, it's all about trying to find value and trying to spend your money efficiently. And we've seen a lot of teams overspend on one or two or three big pieces. And that's not necessarily the way to win in this league. Yeah. Well, I think the one advantage the Leaves have in that regard is that obviously they have a couple ELC guys coming up with Nielander and Marner and Kaepinan and the list goes on and on. And you kind of need to have that to supplement superstar talent if you're going to pay them like we've seen with the Blackhawks with Kane and Taze, of course. Another thing is that we've seen this year from Babcock where he's been sort of able to optimize the edges of his lineup by putting guys in positions to succeed and kind of squeezing all the juice out of the orange with some of these guys that are getting paid the league minimum. So I think those are the sorts of things you have to do if you are going to pay a guy like Stamco's.

But for me, I mean, it just seems silly to suggest that, and I know some people are, that the Leafs would be better off kind of passing on Stamco's because five years from now they're not sure what he's going to look like. feel like based on what this team looks like right now, having some name brand recognition and some name talent there. And obviously Stamco's play actually backs it up. It's not just, it's a big name, would be a huge boon for that franchise. Yeah,

I mean, the thing, you look at what's happening now, and we can praise Babcock all we want, but the roster's not there, and they need elite talent. They need, you know,

they still need an answer in goal. They need, I think, a number one defenseman, and they need more strength down the middle at center or so. So stamp code certainly checks one of those boxes. And the thing that would make it a lot easier is if they can move a loophole or a funuff

or, you know, one of their other bad contracts, free ups and space, that gives them maneuverability not only bringing the stamp codes but bringing someone else as well. And the thing you have to like about signing stamp codes is you're not giving up an asset to do that other than the cap space. You know, if you're signing him in free agency, it's not like a trade where you're giving up a great piece to get a great player. You know, you can just bring him in for the cost of the dollars on the contract. So I think it's an interesting debate.

You know, and it's interesting debate, how high do you go on the contract before all of a sudden it's not worth it anymore? Right. Well, what does that figure to you? Oh, man. You're putting me on the spot. I mean, like, in that perfect world, I would love to get Stamcoast either on not, not give them the full seven years.

I mean, if it's probably one at seven years. If you can get a shorter term or a lower cap hit, that's what you try and do. But I don't know necessarily that you can do that. if there's multiple bidders in the process, then I can see, like to me, seven, eight years at 11 million is too high,

but, you know. Yeah, well, I'm sure he'll be able to get whatever he wants. Like, he definitely won't, won't be short on suitors this summer.

Right, right. And then it comes down to where does Stamcois want to go. And, you know, some people think that that part of his heart is in Tampa

and that despite his differences with the coach that he potentially could stay there. So, you know, it's, it's going to come down to him deciding how badly he wants to leave. He's going to have to give up that,

probably give up that extra year on the contract, unless we see a kind of sign and trade that we haven't really seen so far to get that extra, that eighth year on the deal. This is going to be, especially around the trade deadline, I really think that Tampa's going to be a team to watch because Eisenman is going to have a tough decision to make.

Yeah, for sure. All right, let's switch gears here and talk about the World Juniors a little bit. Of course, a lot of people were following them and watching along, and it had a thrilling conclusion yesterday with Finland beating Russia and Caspari Kappan and getting the golden goal. And I don't know. I just like, I have a few takeaways from it, but I guess the main one was just like how fun that was to watch. And I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that we see in the NHL there's a lot of overcoaching and it kind of bogs the game down and limits creativity. And it was just so fun seeing the back and forth nature of that product.

Yeah, I know. And it seems it's that way every year. And it almost makes you, and then you go back to an NHL game. in the next day or the next week and it's like, man, it's not the same. It's not the same. You know, I was talking to a friend of mine in BC last night. We were chatting online and he was saying how boring he finds the NHL product and how frustrated he is with the way the Canucks play and how hard their games are to watch.

And, you know, it was hard not to disagree with him. You know, he was saying he's turned off watching NHL hockey and when you watch the world junior games and the way they trade scoring chances and the way that the number of goals, and the speed. I mean, the World Juniors is becoming the pinnacle of the sport, that and the Olympics. And I don't know what the answer is to try and bring that in at the NHL level. It's almost like that youthful enthusiasm kind of counteracts the coaching and the systems, you know, and they can't play the kind of lock it down hockey that we see so often in the

NHL. So, you know, it's a great tournament. I thought TSN did a fantastic job with how they broadcast it. You know, it's, I thought this year's event was, even though Canada went out early, I thought it was one of the better term, World Junior Tournament was to watch in the last four or five years. Yeah, no, that was amazing getting to see a lot of Ray Ferraro and Gordon Miller and, and Bob McKenzie, obviously, in the studio and whatnot. And I miss those guys. So, yeah, that was a lot of fun. And the product itself was amazing, as you said.

I think that from Canada's perspective, it's interesting because I remember a few years ago now, you wrote about how the rest of the world was sort of catching up to them and even passing them by. in terms of the way they were developing goaltending. And we sort of saw it this year, right, where McKenzie Blackwood was pretty clearly their best option in net. And even he wasn't up to par. And I don't know, it's interesting just because you could argue that two of the best goalies in the world are Canadians and they're both in their prime and Holby and Price. But the next wave after those guys hasn't necessarily kind of distinguished itself yet.

And obviously, given the volatility of the position, and uncertainty, easily if you guys could kind of come out of nowhere and become that next wave of Canadian goaltending. But it's interesting that as we stand right now, it's like that's the one big glaring hole in their developmental plan. Yeah, I think that's probably the right way to put it. And, you know, when I did the story, the thing that I found alarming is that the percentage of minutes in the NHL that are played by Canadian goalies is going down every year. And it's been going down pretty steadily the last 15, 16 years. And it doesn't look like that's stopping.

And if you look at skaters, if you look at defensemen and forwards, that's not the case. You know, it's kind of plateaued around 50% of the games played or 50% of the minutes or even the goals scored. I mean, the goal scored number. Canadians are still scoring 50, 53, 54% of the goals every year in the NHL. Goaltending, that number is down to about 40%. Some years is dipping under 40%. And I just wonder if it continues to go lower and lower. Canada has the advantage of having so many players,

so a great junior system to develop players, but when you talk to parents or you talk to former goalies that have come through the system, one of the things they always say is that there's just not that extra developmental support for goaltenders. Often they don't have their own coaches, even if you're playing at AAA level in Peewee or Bantam. And you go over to Europe, as I did, I went to Stockholm,

and they've got a club team system, them there. So I went into AIK. I met with some of their goalie coaches. I asked them how they do it. They have their goalie coaches all have, there's six or seven of them with just the one club with AIK in Stockholm. And they don't just deal with the pro teams or the junior teams. They deal with little kids, you know, and they have ice times once or twice a month where they bring in all of the goalies, you know, from age, whatever, six to 17. They all come in and they're all on the ice at the same time and they've got 60 goalies out there, and they're teaching them the same thing. So Sweden, Sweden and in Finland to a little bit of a lesser extent,

the goalies are getting that kind of almost professional level tutoring when they're six, seven, eight years old. And there's, along with having Henrik Wancliffe has become kind of the face of Swedish goaltending, you know, there's become this huge boon in the number of kids in Sweden that want to be goalies that want to play that position. So we haven't quite seen this hit the NHL yet. There's more Swedish goalies than there have been. ever before in the NHL, but I think it's going to continue to come.

And I think that if we go five, six, seven years down in the future, that Sweden is going to continue to make Enroads and goal, and it's going to continue to help them at international tournaments. Yeah. Well, I mean, and I'm a proud Canadian myself, but I think as a hockey fan, it's kind of good for the product and good for the sport to see this sort of parody and whatnot. And I honestly think that the semifinals and the finals were probably funner,

just because Canada wasn't in it, It kind of provided a different perspective and got to shine a light on a team like Finland, for example, where it's kind of awesome seeing how they're developing and nurturing these guys, right? Like, obviously they have the Patrick Leine and Puli Arvi who we're going to go in the top five in the draft this year. But then just in terms of the NHL, I mean, guys like Ristelainen and Mata and Vattenin and Barcov and Tara Vinen and Granland and on and on and on. And it's kind of fun to see how that nation is generating all of this. all of this NHL talent and what it'll mean for future international competitions moving forward. Yeah, and the way that that country embraced the tournament being there as well. I mean, so often you hear people talk about the world juniors as a tournament that only Canada cares about.

I don't think that's the case anymore. I think, you know, you talk to Swedes. They care more about the tournament than they ever have before. Finland has gotten really big into it. I mean, the ratings in Finland for the world juniors were astronomical. They had 25, 30 percent of the country watching that those. games on television in the middle rounds. You know, that's a much higher percentage than in Canada was watching on TSN.

No offense to the job that TSN does. But, you know, some of these countries are realizing that this is a great tournament to watch and that it's very, very important because if you do well at the World Juniors consistently, you're going to ultimately produce a lot of elite level players at the NHL level and at the Olympic level. So they've started to use it as a litmus test for how well each generation of player development is working. Yeah. And we haven't mentioned the states yet who I think kind of messed up in their decision to not bring their most talented and most offensively prolific players and obviously came back to haunt them when they were desperately down a goal and got eliminated. And I don't know, what do you think about the whole Ron Wilson thing? I feel like obviously there was a little bit of like trolling involved there with his comments about the Russians. I feel like there's absolutely no way that even if you think the worst of Ron Wilson that he actually.

didn't know any of their players, right? I don't know. I don't know what to think about Ron Wilson anymore. It's almost like a blast from the past having him come back because I stood beside him for four years and listened to a lot of his scrums in Toronto. And, you know, he said a lot of things where you just shook your head and it would it do. I don't know.

And, you know, credit to Mark Masters for going back and asking him the follow-up questions. I thought his follow-up questions were great in that, you know, why is it a good thing that you don't know who was on the Russian team, which Ron Wilson wouldn't answer? and he said, are you going to do some research, which is funny, but it also takes a quick wit to come back at Wilson with a question like that. You know, I think that he did some damage to the idea that he's going to get another NHL job. I mean, I think that that's pretty unlikely.

And, you know, he said he's not interested in going back to the world juniors. So, you know, I don't know where that's going to leave his career as a coach. Yeah, I'm sure he's going to get hired as like some sort of a kind of. consultant or special scout or something like that. I'm sure he'll find work. But yeah, if you're an NHL team and you're kind of wondering whether you should be hiring Ron Wilson, I feel like something like that definitely sort of just like says it all about where he's at right now in his career as a coach.

Before we get out of here, I did want to ask you one quick thing. And I'm not sure if you were actually around for this, but I know you're a Camloops guy. And obviously, Jerome McGinla just recently scored a 600th NHL goal. were you still around in Camloops when he had that ridiculous 79 goal and 79 game season back in the mid-90s? Yeah, yeah, no, we actually had season tickets. You know, I was going to all of those games, and they won the Memorial Cup in Camelwops in 1995, and Jerome was on that team. The funny thing with the Ginnla is that he was a little bit of a late bloomer.

I mean, he was a very good player, but he was playing on these Camel's teams that were just stacked, and a lot of people thought Shane Doan was going to be the better player. I mean, he was drafted higher than a Ginnla. And, you know, I remember distinctly that trade that Dallas made sending a Gimlet to Calgary for Joe Newindyke. And, you know, people in Calgary said they had no idea who Jerome McGillow was. You know, they were shocked that this icon that Nielander was traded for Jerome McGillow. We all thought in Canell said he would have a good career. We all thought he was a great person and a great ambassador for Camloops and for the sport and everything.

but I don't know that anyone ever thought he was going to be, you know, one of the best goal scores in NHL history, but, you know, he's a great guy. And I think part of what it shows is that, you know, you're not what you are at 17 or 18 years old. You know, your growth in development continues after that, and that's certainly the case for a Gimlet who kept getting better and better in the years after. He first played in Kells on some of those stacked teams.

Yeah, that's quite the team to add. that Nolan Baumgartner and Brad Lukovic noted NHL defense standouts. And like those guys were so good at the junior level. Nolan Baumgartner won CHL defensemen of the year. And I know he didn't have much of an NHL career, but he was excellent as a junior player. And it shows it that, you know, that that next step is difficult to forecast sometimes

because that's another guy. We thought Baumgartner would probably be a star in the NHL and he didn't end up being that. Whoa. I'm looking at the roster right now, I honestly had no idea that Ryan Rishog was on that team. That's amazing. Obviously now he's a TSN employee and covers the Oilers in Edmonton. I had no idea about that.

He wasn't a major contributor for that team by any means, but that's kind of a funny. Ryan's actually, yeah, Ryan's from Camloup. So he's a couple years older than me, and he went to the same high school. And yeah, so it's a small world when you have two people in the media that are from the same place like that. All right, Ben.

James was a lot of fun. Hopefully we'll be able to. to do it against you. I'm sure that as the trade deadline approaches, there's going to be a lot of lease-related stuff to talk about. I guess I didn't have a chance to ask you. Do you still think that the Leafs are going to stick to the course? And even if they keep winning the rate at which they've been winning in the past month or so, or even a bit longer than that, do you think they're still going to come deadline and move away a lot of these pieces to other contenders that kind of value them more? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I don't.

think that the plan has changed all. And it's going to be, you know, I think it would be a more interesting story if they can get a little bit closer to the wildcard race as opposed to just fall out of it and just kind of coast along the rest of the way. You know, I think that there's seven points back now. If they continue to win, you know, whatever, three out of every five games, it can continue to claw up some ground. And if at the trade deadline, they're three or four points back and then they start unloading guys,

I mean, that would be, that would be unprecedented for a team to do that. but I absolutely believe that that's what they're going to do. Yeah. Well, I mean, the Atlantic Division is so wide open that it's pretty conceivable that it's going to stay this tight. And if they keep up playing like this and keep getting good goaltending and whatnot, it's definitely conceivable that they could and begin to creep closer and closer into that picture. But yeah, I think that based on everything we know about the guys kind of pulling the strings in Toronto right now, they're going to have a longer-term view and a more progressive approach.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I don't see them wavering from the plan. I think that Brennan-Schanan has put everything into the idea that he's going to be patient. They're going to build until this is a contending team. And I think everyone in the organization realizes, even though they've looked pretty good and they've beaten some good teams the last two months, that they're not going to rush that plan. Yeah.

Okay. Where can people find you on Twitter? I'm sure you don't need the HockeyPediocast Twitter bump, but we usually do that at the end of the show. So where can people find you? Is there any projects you're working on that you can tease for our listeners? Or what are you up to these days? Yes, but I can't talk about what it is.

So, yeah, I've been working on. That's the best tease of all. Yeah, I'm trying to work on some more longer-term pieces this year and less of the game stories and day-to-day stuff. So it's, you know, there's a couple of things behind the scenes that I'm pretty excited about. But, you know, it's different. It's different spending a couple weeks on different stories as opposed to a couple hours. and, you know, that's about all I can say.

But people can still find me on Twitter every day. It's just my last name, Myrtle, M-I-R-T-L-A. Cool. Okay, man. We'll talk soon. Okay, thanks, Dimitri. The HockeyPedocast, online at HockeyPedocast.com. Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter at Dim Filipovich and at Travis Yost.