The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 47: A Good Ol' Fashioned Trade

Episode Date: January 8, 2016

Chris Johnston joins the show to help break down the surprising movement we see across the NHL this week. We discuss: Was another trade out there that the Predators passed up to pull the trigger on this one? How likely Seth Jones is to become the player the Blue Jackets now need him to be? Why did the Los Angeles Kings feel the need to make a desperation play on Vinny Lecavalier, and what happens should he go back on his word about retiring? Are we ready to live in a world where the Flyers are making prudent moves with the future in mind? Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show (www.hockeypdocast.com/donate). There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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hasn't been on the show yet already. I guess it's better late than never. Chris Johnston. Chris, how's it going, man? I'm doing well, Dimitri. How are you? I'm good. I'm happy to have you on.

We were planning this for about a week or so, and obviously, maybe even 24 hours ago, I was kind of wondering what we were going to talk about because there hadn't necessarily been that much happening, and there's only so many times you can talk about Stamco's and Druand and what's going on in Tampa Bay. And then we're blessed with what I'd call. all three at least notable transactions that we can kind of just dig our teeth into today's show. Yeah, I think there's a lot of people around hockey that were pleased with Wednesday just for, you know, something new to talk about the John Scott All-Star game controversy and

Jonathan Dren, even, which is a newer story, could only take it so far. And there's actually some meat on the bone here, I think, to carve through. Yeah. So, okay, let's start with a big one. Let's not bury the lead. It's obviously the trade between the predators and the blue jackets that saw Ryan and go to the Predators and Seth Jones go to the jackets. And it's interesting because on the surface, I mean, it's just one of those straight up good old-fashioned one-for-one trades that help both teams.

And we very rarely see them given today's kind of climate with the salary cap and whatnot and how stingy teams are. So I think that was just like my big takeaway that we very rarely see trades like this. And it was just, it was pretty fun to see one. Well, and, you know, the biggest thing for me is I'm still kind of shocked that Seth Jones is, was a player that Nashville was willing to move. I mean, we can understand that they're dealing from depth and all that. But even still, I mean, to me, that was the biggest part of, you know, surprise.

And, you know, in talking to some people around this deal, that was ultimately what kind of held it up for a little while. And, you know, Nashville being willing to throw him in eventually is obviously what got it done. I mean, I think the Blue Jackets felt that they were in a position with Ryan Johans where it was no mystery that he was going to be traded. at some point, but, you know, it didn't have to happen this week or even arguably this season. I mean, it could have been done over the summer. He's still, you know, under contract through next year. And I think that they were going to slow play this and they targeted a certain defenseman around the league.

And I think, honestly, Seth Jones was probably number one of the guys they thought they might be able to get. And as I said, I'm a little surprised and not even saying it was a bad move, but that the predators were willing to do that. I mean, it's a pretty bold move from David Poyle at this point in time, I believe. So you can provide us a little kind of dynamic here that we don't usually have on the podcast when it's just myself and Travis because I feel like you have a certain number of inside sources or whatnot. And maybe you can answer this for us. We've been long speculating that the predators should be trying to get out from under

that Shea Weber contract. And I was just kind of curious when I saw this trade happen. I was wondering, do you think the predators ever actually tried to offer Shea Weber for Ryan your Hansen, for example? and then the blue jackets kind of countered and said, no, we need a younger guy with a more team-friendly contract, or do you think that it was never even really something the predator has kind of explored? It's my impression that that wasn't ever a serious, you know,

angle that was pursued here. For Columbus, I think, well, they're not going to come out and say it. I mean, this is kind of a little bit of a rebuilding start. You know, they're in a weird transitional phase. I've heard Travis rail on about this a lot in some of your recent podcasts, about the heavy contracts they have on their books right now up front especially. And that's a legitimate criticism and concern for them. But I think that this is sort of, even though they're trading a younger player,

I still think that this is a move made with an eye on the future. And I don't believe Shea Weber would have been something that would have interested the bluejackets. I mean, what maybe is a more interesting thought, though, that is if Nashville had decided they were willing to move a defenseman in one of their big names that they chose to do, Seth Jones, rather than maybe looking elsewhere to see if a Shoe Everdeal could have been done. But, you know, I do think that with Ryan Johansson, they just didn't feel that there was anyone close to his skill level, you know, where he's at in his career, and obviously being a centerman that they could acquire with any players. So I think it was just a very specific

circumstance here that brought these teams together. And, you know, as much as they kind of danced around it for a little while, you know, my impression is this was quite on again, off again. they it's almost like they knew they were going to date eventually and consummate the marriage here and finally it happened right they were just kind of eyeing each other from a far away and in waiting you know for the right circumstances i think you know david poyle watched this team this year and and you know they actually scored you know fairly well kind of as a group last year right it's been an issue for them and and you know right now as we're speaking they're holding down the last wild card spot in the west obviously they have to go through the murderous central here for the second half of the year and you know i don't think he felt that he could wait much longer in terms of trying to, you know, add something that's going to change his mix offensively. And, you know, this, this to me anyway, just because of where Seth Jones was using their lineup is going to improve them, you know, as of this moment. It's over time that that will tell, you know, if this was a wise deal. Right. Yeah. And I think that's a very important point to make where the predators are kind of not necessarily all in right now. I mean,

they definitely have some young pieces to work with moving forward. But it ran your hands and just kind of inserting them into the lineup and just bumping everyone down into probably spots they should have been playing into begin with, right? Like Mike Ribeiro now becomes a second center, Mike Fisher becomes the third center, Paul Gostad stays in the fourth line and you kind of have the construction

down the middle that makes a lot more sense and this Predators team desperately needed a guy that could kind of help put the puck in the net and add a little cachet to their forward group and I think that it's a massive win for them just because as you said they're taking a guy from their third pairing and while

I think Seth Jones probably isn't a third-faring defenseman at this point of his career. I mean, he could easily be playing in the top four, even on the top pair for most teams, and he will in Columbus. I think that for the predators, I think they ultimately won this trade just because of kind of the position therein and how much it helps them. That's an interesting, you know, I'm not willing to give them that just yet. And one of the sort of under-discussed things, at least as I've seen it in the last 12 or 15 hours, is Ryan Johansson's contract status. And, you know, in talking to some guys who work for other NHL teams, you know, one of them called it a, what was it, a contractual time bomb that he has. And, you know, it's a reality. Beyond this season, he's only got two years till restricted or unrestricted free agency. Next year he gets paid $6 million.

So it means the year after he would have to be qualified at the same. And at that point, he could essentially hold the predators hostage theoretically that, you know, with the UFA year looming with him making pretty good money, you know, it's possible. they're only buying him for two and a half years here. And obviously we're really forecasting out. I mean, it's impossible at this point to say how the marriage is going to work, how the fit's going to be. But, you know, there is the potential that they're not getting him too, too long a term, whereas, you know, the Blue Jackets have four more years of Seth Jones under team control.

You know, obviously he needs a new contract this year. I'm coming out of his entry-level deal. But, you know, there's a chance for them, say, to do a seven-year deal with him right now and, you know, kind of control him a little bit longer. And, you know, he is two years young. younger than Johansson, which isn't a lot in human years, but in sports years, that's a lifetime. I knows what, you know, what kind of player he'll develop into within these two years. So I think there's still considerable risks here for Nashville just because, you know, there's

no guarantee they're going to have Ryan Johansson for a long time. But again, I do think a lot of the move was motivated for the short term and they'll kind of deal with as his time goes along. Yeah. Well, I think I saw someone mentioned, I might have been Craig Cussons or someone like that, that it was kind of a double whammy for the predators because the, wild were also a team that was kind of going heavily after your hansen and and preventing them from getting him and getting him instead is surely going to help them in this playoff race and that

central is just insane i mean running that gauntlet where if you have to potentially beat three of those teams to make it to the cup final just seems like a a very insane proposition to me right and you know they're not obviously at the level of a chicago l.A. down the middle but you know you you you can now start to see where they'll match up a little bit more favorably and you know that black hawks predator series last year was fairly close, I think. And, you know, it kind of gets forgotten because the Blackhawks go on and win another cup and it seems like it was preordained almost. But, you know, I think the Predators came out of that playoff series feeling as though they weren't that far necessarily, maybe not from winning a cup, but getting by one of those teams. And you have to like their chances

better now, whether they end up, you know, potentially facing the Blues or Chicago in the first round, you know, depending on things unfoldier, I think that this gives them, you know, lots of reason to think that they're in a better position to try to win that series. And let's face it, I mean, there's always that kind of awkward balance in sports where you're forever looking ahead and you want to manage your future. But, you know, they do have a pretty good team right now. And it's worth maybe, you know, throwing the dice on the table a little bit and seeing what you get here because I think Ryan Johansson has shown already. Even, I mean, for all the sort of discussion about his issues and all that. I mean, this is a great young player.

And I don't think that should be lost on anybody who's looking at this trade. I mean, immediately, this makes the Predators better. And that central division, I can't wait to see them go through the playoffs because it's going to be awesome watching those series. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. People sometimes kind of forget because of everything that's unfolded this year with Tortorella and whatnot and his benching and maybe some of those health issues and all the kind of clouds surrounding him in Columbus. but Ryan Johansson's just been a guy that consistently produces at a really high level and scores a lot of goals, frankly, and that'll be a huge shot in the arm for the predators. Is there anything, is there any other angle that we kind of are missing from this trade, or do you think we kind of covered it all? I think we covered it.

I mean, I'm just fascinated that more teams don't attempt to do trades like this. I mean, we always hear that same thing trotted out about how hard it is to make trades. And, you know, it's true on some level, but I think a lot of it is a risk of version among decision makers in the sport. And I do wonder if that's going to start to change a little bit more with a lot of teams adopting a more analytical eye. And I think really evaluating how they make decisions in general. I do believe that there is a groundswell of that happening around the league.

And maybe we're going to see some more creative type of deals. Because I love a trade like this. Frankly, both teams, I'm sure, the minute that they signed off on this are feeling a little bit queasy and a little bit excited, right? and, you know, I just, it's very interesting to me. And just, it's not, you know, like, you always think that they're going to throw in, like, two sort of second tier guys and they're hedging their bets, that those guys, you know, that they're going to regret it and all this.

In this case, there's high possibility on both ends for a deep amount of regret, depending on how these players develop. And I think that that's just awesome to see you now to watch how it, you know, unfold here of these teams. Well, you kind of have to manage that way, right? Like, if you're just taking all these conservative moves that have very little upside, you're ultimately not going to get anywhere. And to potentially get over the top like the predators are trying to do, you sort of have to, as you said, but like roll the dice and try to make something happen.

And if it doesn't wind up working out, I mean, that's going to be an issue moving forward. But at the same time, like, I don't think anyone is necessarily going to fault David Poil for kind of trying to go all in and bring in a young guy here that can kind of fill a massive need for them. Exactly. And I think, too, with so many young players making such a big impact on the sport now, that trades like this have to happen. But, I mean, if you're really going to change, you know, make a meaningful change to your organization. Because, you know, there was a time when, you know, the Vinnie La Cablee news or Mike Richards, you know, these guys with big names from the past would be huge news. And, you know, in reality, it's not with the other moves that came on Wednesday just because, you know, these guys really are relegated to, you know, there's some hope there that they'll provide a team with depth.

But I almost feel that, but by the time we realize the guy's a star, it's almost too late sometimes now. And then, you know, you really have to go after young players. I think it's the key in getting them usually in their cheaper years under the salary cap, but also just the rate of production seems to be, you know, strongest among the youngest. And those tend to be the guys that don't get traded very often. And, you know, that's what I really liked about this move and trying to, you know, pick my way through it and analyze it. Okay, well, let's move on to the Cavalier trade as you just so expertly brought up in transition for us.

it was an interesting move in the sense that I spent like 15 minutes just staring at my screen trying to figure out from the King's perspective what there was necessarily to gain here. For those that missed it, it was essentially LeCavillet and Luke Shen going over to the Kings. And in return, the Flyers got a third round pick and Jordan Whale, who's a fairly highly regarded prospect, and they retained some of the salary on La Calais' deal. And obviously one of the big sort of monkey wrenches in it is that La Cavillier was still owed quite a bit of money. and apparently he's promised the kings that he'll retire after this season because he's so desperately just wants to have one more run at a cup and he's willing to fork over that much money to make it happen. And I don't know, like from talking to people around the league or just from your own take yourself, like what do you make of this trade?

Because it just seems like a very bizarre decision by Dean Lombardi. It is. I mean, it's kind of dipping into his past bag of tricks and trying to, I guess, take on another reclamation project, so to speak, or a player that has had their, reputation sullied a bit. I mean, to me, I mean, I don't know if I want to call it desperation, but it doesn't seem like a smart allotment of that cap space, especially for a team that doesn't have a lot. But, you know, I did have someone tell me again, a neutral observer from another team that they actually believe even O'Shen and La Cablee are both slow skaters, kind of lumbering players at this point that they believe with kind of the unique way the Kings play and the way

that their system works, that they might actually be okay in that. system. And, you know, I'm no expert with that. I mean, it seems still a bit of a long shot to me, but, you know, there is at least that opinion out there in hockey circles that maybe, you know, these guys will pay off just because the Kings, I mean, I was speaking to Ken Hitchcock last week, he came through Toronto. And he was just saying that the Kings to him are as good or better than the old Kings, so to speak, the ones that were winning the Cups. And he was saying it's amazing that whoever they plug in their lineup, it just seems that they're able to, to, to, adopt to that system. He said no one tries to do anything fancy. Everyone is just committed to playing

the same way and it's relentless when you're going up against it. And, you know, maybe these guys can be blended into that kind of, you know, I guess mindset and not stand out in the way that they were in Philadelphia where, frankly, both guys were repeatedly healthy scratches, especially La Cavilliers, and they weren't of much use to the flyers. So the fact that they were able to get out from under half of their contracts and get a little bit of futures in return, I mean, it seems like a real win for Ron Hextall to me. Yeah, I think with the Shen thing, while he was being healthy scratch and whatnot, I still think, like, it's kind of tough to separate the fact that he was, like,

a fifth overall pick and he was traded for JBR and how disappointing he's been based on that. But I think he's still a pretty serviceable NHL defenseman, and he's still fairly young. I think he's in his mid-20s, and he can probably contribute to them a little bit, for sure, and they have, like, a mobile blue line around him, so it's not necessarily a disaster in that end. but I just think watching La Cablea over the past couple years, like it's just, it's one of those things where I'm sure his mind

is telling him to do certain things, but his body just can't keep up with it. Like he just physically based on all the injuries he's had and whatnot. And he just can't really seem to move around anymore. And it's sort of a little depressing for me to watch him play just because I remember growing up watching him be one of the most dominant players in the NHL. And he just like such a shell of himself that you just kind of hate to see guys

that were once playing at such a high level kind of stooped to those, stoop to those new standards, but I guess that he's just so, he's craving, winning, and hoisting that cup against so much that it's kind of worth it for him. Right. And, you know, I think it's entirely possible this is going to be a guy that's playing eight or ten minutes a night and then, you know, potentially even getting scratched for the Kings even as time goes along. I'm sure, you know, sometimes, you know, this is a trade that there still isn't a ton

of risk in it other than the fact, as I said, that they've now allocated cap space and, in their case, valuable cap space to these guys. and especially in La Calvier's case, you're not really sure how much they're going to be able to use them. They're hoping that they're going to be able to get something out of them, but it's certainly not a guarantee. And what's kind of interesting to me is that there's nothing, well, I certainly take Vinnie LaCalvea and his agent, Ken Hughes at their word.

There's nothing contractually that says he has to retire at the end of this. And that could linger. I mean, let's imagine just for fun that, you know, he has a good second half to the year here and things go well and he feels revitalized and he is playing. I mean, what happens if he wants to continue on? I mean, that'll be sort of an interesting thing to follow. But, you know, at this time, if he is actually retiring and the Kings don't have any commitment beyond this season, you know, I can see from their perspective, I guess, why they're rolling the dice on it.

I just would think as we get closer to the deadline here that there might be, or there certainly will be rental players that are probably more impactful at this stage of their careers. Well, Chris, I mean, we've never seen a player go back on his word and decide that he wants to keep playing. I mean, it's never happened in the history of sports. I'm sure it wouldn't happen here as well. Exactly. I mean, why would we, I mean, again, I'm not even saying that there's any, just people change their minds, right? It's not even, it's not even that I think he's lying or that he has other plans right now. It's just, let's say he does play well. I mean, why, why would he retire then? If let's say he gets to the cup final and loses and feels like he's so close, I mean, there's just a lot of things I think that could happen, whereby he still is under contract and isn't signing his retirement papers and letting him off the hook for those final two years. Well, I mean, the key term there you mentioned is, is the desperation angle. And I find that curious just because the kings are in such a perfect position here where the rest of the Pacific around them is such a wasteland that they can really just kind of walk into the playoffs as the number one scene in that division there. And I'm all

for kind of making moves ahead of the deadline because I feel like sometimes you can box yourself into a corner if you wait till those last few hours and you wind up kind of paying prices that you wouldn't have paid otherwise because there is that desperation. You're kind of running up against the clock. But I just don't really see from from their angle why they never, necessarily had to make this move right now. Like, let's say they're approaching the deadline and nothing else is on the board and they can go like, okay, I guess we'll kind of settle for Luke Chen and see if Vinae Calvia has a little bit of left.

I just like, I think the timing of it was just kind of bizarre. Yeah, I mean, and, you know, Dean Lombardi's so big on second chances, so to speak, that I'm, I'm wondering if there's an element of that here. I mean, he was, you know, talking about Vinila Calvier going back to the summertime, even about with the flyers, with the possibility. and, you know, maybe it is hard to say. I mean, I guess the best way we can put it is that these guys don't have to play. I mean, the Kings didn't give up anything off their roster.

Jordan Wheel wasn't playing at all and would have been lost likely on waivers. You know, had they put him on waivers and he was kind of an extra guy. And a third round pick, you know, there's value to that. But they didn't pay a huge steep price here. But you're right. I just feel heading, you know, as we get closer to February 29th, that there's going to be a lot more useful players, maybe even cheaper capits available that they could have went after.

But they went this route. Maybe the connections there, you know, sometimes we forget the connections between Ron Hextall and Dean Lombardi. I mean, there's a lot of sort of different elements at play. And, you know, I guess the worst case scenario, if neither of these guys are contributing much, the Kings still have a great chance of winning the cup without them. Yeah, for sure.

Okay, from the other perspective, I have one question for you, I guess, to kick us off. are you ready to live in a world where the flyers are making kind of cap conscious future, future conscious decisions where they're actually thinking about the future and being logical as opposed to kind of just closing their eyes and throwing haymakers? Well, it's opened my eyes to a new set of possibilities in the universe because, you know, since the salary cap was brought in and I'd have to fact check this, but I'm nearly certain they've been used the long-term injury provision every year,

meaning essentially that they spent more than the cap money on their players. and now they're in a position where they're actually legitimately under the cap and not because they have loopholes or Chris Prongers or whatever on their roster and you know that that is amazing I mean really and if you look you know project a season

out providing they don't do anything too stupid I mean they're going to be actually you know in a position to to really be well positioned I would say under the cap and to be aggressive in the kind of trades that they're able to make and it won't be just about dumping salaries and and doing those sort of of moves. And, you know, I think Ron Nexthal

deserve some credit for that, frankly. And going back to the draft with the pronger slash Nicholas Grossman deal to Arizona. And, you know, he has freed them out from under some things. If you can ever get rid of Andrew McDonald's contract. Right. That'll be the final piece of, you know,

cap management glory, I guess, for him to obtain. But, you know, this is a different, this is a different Philadelphia mindset now, clearly. And, well, the results haven't been great so far on the ice. I do think that they're poised to to sort of act differently than we've seen in the past and that is proof that everyone could change, I guess. Yeah, I know. I think that the

past I guess year and a half or so has been just a 180. Like I pretty much liked all their moves and it started the draft where I thought they kind of obviously Provera was a very logical pick where they were picking, but getting their hands on a guy like Travis Keneckney that laid in the draft after he slipped was a no-brainer and they've just kind of refrained from making those classic flyers decisions where they just give a guy way too much money and way too much term for no reason. And everyone on Twitter is just making fun of them. And it's been fascinating to see that.

Like them and the Leafs are suddenly two of the franchises in the league that are actually like thinking critically and long term. And it's just like something that I haven't really experienced in my lifetime. So it's a pretty, it's a pretty new, unique feeling for me. I'd love to know what Ed Snyder makes of it all because he's kind of hovered over everything, right? And it's his impatience. I think, you know, he's, he's, he's,

He's actually said himself. He's into his 80s and he wants to see the Flyers win the cup. And I think he's put a lot of the pressure on to be in wind now mode perpetually no matter how bad things were, no matter how stupid the moves were. But it seems that Ron Hextall had a little bit more patience and a little bit more of an eye for the future. And that's clearly made a difference. This is the same thing in Toronto where I live and I spend a long time around the Maple Leafs. I mean, I've never seen this level of organizational discipline.

And, you know, I think the next question, if we look at the Leafs heading into the second half, is how long they keep William Neelander in the American Hockey League. And I'll tell you, I was in the camp that I thought they'd kind of bring him up as soon as, you know, the period passed where he wouldn't account for a year towards his unrestricted for agency status once the Leafs got passed their 40-second game. But even in addition to the fact that he suffered that concussion at the World Juniors, I'm more and more leaning now to thinking they might keep him in the H.L. all year long.

And, you know, again, that's just not, that's not leaps like in any way, shape, or form for the way the organizations behave. But Brennan-Schanahan has a certain power, and that's his vision, and I think it's a smart one. Well, I guess it's one thing to kind of avoid making those big mistakes when you're digging yourself out of a hole and kind of trying to get your head back above water. But I guess we'll see how those two teams, for example, conduct themselves when they actually do have some newfound cap space to work. with. It might be a bit easier for them to kind of go back into those old ways. When Stephen Stamcoast becomes an unrestricted free agent, you mean? They're bidding against each other to seize 13, 14 million or whatever it is. But I mean, honestly, that's a distinct possibility. Remember, the flyers were preparing

an offer sheet for Stamco's a couple years ago when he stayed on the market for a few weeks past July. And then, you know, obviously the leaf ties are well known. I mean, who knows? These guys could, you know, be getting our praise right now and then blown their brains out a few months from now. Yeah. Now, it's amazing the fires have been able to avoid kind of going all in on Shea Weber if he really is available. I feel like that would just explode Twitter. Well, I mean, look, they were the ones who doomed Nashville with their contract and specifically the way it's structured with all the bonuses. I mean, the Weber is going to be an interesting one. You know, Johanton, if they do keep him, he's going to be a big money guy. I mean,

the predators kind of have a window now where they have to, you know, not necessarily win a cup, but really make their strides because I could see a position where we're talking on the PDO cast a couple years down the road about how saddled they are with with tough contracts. Well, that's nice of you to say that we're going to be doing this show in a few years. I think that's, that might be a stretch, but I appreciate the kind words. Come on, you're 40-some episodes in in the first season. I mean, I've been doing a lot of driving over the holidays and listening to you guys, so it's been fun.

Cool. Okay, well, let's finish it off with one final kind of smaller nugget, and that's the Mike Richard signing with the Capitals. And obviously, I mean, it's a one-year, one-million dollar deal, so it's very low. risk and ultimately I don't think that even if it doesn't work out it's not like it's going to come back to haunt the caps and and ruin their season by any means but I don't know like do you think he actually has anything left I mean obviously we haven't seen them this season and last time we did see him he was sort of a shell of himself and really just didn't resemble anything close to the player that we'd

come to know during his peak I mean he was still I should point out he was still a good penalty killer and that could be an interesting kind of little wrinkle there where we know how teams kind of like that sort of stuff towards the playoffs and whatnot where you can kind of ride a guy in a defensive manner and he can help you out that way in suppressing the offense. But I think that, I don't know, I'm just kind of curious. Do you think his role is ultimately going to be extremely minimal or are the Cavs kind of optimistic here or what's going on? I think that they're very cautious. And, you know, they're really not expecting a lot. And look, this could be no different than even the Alex Simmons signing for Montreal and that if it's not working a few weeks from now that both

sides could walk away or I guess in this case, Richards could be sent to their HL team with very little penalty against the cap. I mean, my sense is that Washington is just hoping this is a bit like found money. And, you know, there's probably only about five teams, give or take in the league that I think this sort of signing makes sense. And Washington's one of them. They don't need them. I wouldn't think. But there's hope there that certainly especially teams and the Pelme kill as you touched on, he can help with that he could be a depth player. And, you know, even just having a little extra wrinkle of experience, which I know we can't measure,

but I think they value the fact that he's been through it and that this is a team hopefully gearing up for a long playoff run that having him around might be of some benefit. And the Caps did a lot of due diligence on him. Speaking to Justin Williams, they actually met with Mike Richards a month or so ago to see where his head was at. And he wants to give it a go.

And I just think that they view it as about the lowest risk option they can have. And if there's one positive thing, certainly skating has always been an issue for for Richards and this is a skating league now is that he's he's not still that old. Is he 30 maybe? Yeah, I think roughly. And I know there's a lot of mileage there, but really they're asking for half a season or a little bit less out of them in a playoff run and, you know, not really paying a lot by the game standards to get it. So, you know, I understand the move for them. Yeah, I guess it's kind of tough to get too worked up about it because ultimately, as you said, it might not really wind up mattering at all.

and we're going to feel silly for devoting too much time to even thinking about it. But I guess it's a worthwhile gamble just purely because they are set down in the middle, as you said, with Baxter and Kuznetsov, and then they have other pieces there like, like like and whatnot. And they're playing Michael Lata as their fourth line center. And it's worth a shot to see if it is, I guess the found money angle is kind of a good one. Well, and, you know, I just don't, I think it's entirely possible, honestly, he doesn't even play a game for them.

I mean, I won't say that's likely, but, you know, I would think, you know, you're probably going to see them start practicing with the team here. The caps are considering the option of using a conditioning loan eventually to get them some games. In Hershey, you know, they couldn't send them down without waivers, but they can get them a couple games using the conditioning stint and sort of see where things are at. Evaluate where his games at because, you know, Brian McClennon, the general manager was open. He said they're not really sure exactly where he's at. They've met with them.

They've talked to people. They've done their homework. But, you know, they haven't seen them in a meaningful hockey game. I guess about nine months, no one has. And even Mike Richards himself, I think, is a little unsure what version of himself he'll be able to present. So it's a test. But, you know, for all the discussion, literally this guy might not play an NHL game for the caps if things aren't going well. And, you know, I think both sides would be open with each other.

I think that they recognize it's a bit of an experiment. And if it's not going to work, then I don't think they'll go too far down the road. I don't think it would be an ugly sort of split, you know, however they end up doing it. Right. Yeah, that's important to note. All right, I guess one final question, and it's just looking ahead, I guess. It's like we had this crazy day on Wednesday where multiple things happened after we hadn't really seen anything all year. And I'm kind of just wondering now, where do we go from here in terms of moves like this? Like, do you think it's going to die down a little bit here? And then maybe we hear more chatter as around an All-Star weekend when the GMs are kind of all there in one place? Or do you think that we're going to wait until the deadline until we finally see teams kind of try and make some moves again and get a little feistyer? Or do you think it's going to be a consistent thing? Now that the floodgates have kind of opened a little bit that we're just going to keep hearing trade talk as we progress towards February 29th.

Well, we're not going to get a trade today, but I do think that we're going to see fairly consistent action. I mean, that's kind of typically the way it works. This is probably a little bit early. You know, still what, seven, eight weeks from the trade deadline to say that it starts. But I think the tap's been turned on. And, you know, there's been a lot of frustration in front offices about, you know, what is a perceived inability to make trades this year. This has been a brutal year. And prior to the last couple days, really, for any amount of transactions, everything has been basically guys that don't play in the NHL, you know, switching addresses.

And, you know, with John and Duran being out there, I think that's a significant piece on the market. I think that, you know, and I know that some teams are very serious right now about trying to go get him. And, you know, if they fail to get them, they'll look elsewhere. And it does seem that, you know, once that trades happen and everyone's looking around their division, and trying to, I think that there's a little more urgency, I guess, is the best way to put it. And after, you know, everyone being so unable to get anything done in the first part of the season, I do think we're going to see a stream of trades here through January. And then, of course, in February, you'll be the typical rental guy for a sixth rounder every five minutes.

Yeah, that's going to be something to watch. Chris, man, thanks a lot for taking the time to chat. It was you're the perfect guest to kind of come on and provide some insight around what you're hearing around the league for these trades. So it kind of worked out perfectly. Yes, this is the best time of year. I love it the most when everyone gets chatting and things start moving. And who knows, we might still see some big deals. I mean, I think Eric Stahl still moves by the deadline. I mean, the Stamco's question will be floating in the air depending on what happens with Drew Ann. I mean, there's a chance to see kind of a little bit more name movement, I think, moving before this deadline than we typically see.

And, you know, that makes it a little bit more interesting as well. Well, if we get some more big trades, I guess we're just going to have that's our excuse for having you have you have you back on the show. Well, you have my phone number. I'll come on any time you want, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah, we'll talk soon. The Hockey PDOCast online at HockeyPedocast.com. Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter at Dim Filippovich and at Travis Yost.