The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 49: An Unquenchable Bloodlust

Episode Date: January 13, 2016

After having had a few days to process the career milestone that Alex Ovechkin reached over the weekend, we spin it forward by looking at his career as a goal scorer in the macro sense. By the time he's done how high up the all-time list will he have climbed, and will he have a legitimate case for being considered the best to ever do it when adjusting for different eras? We also discuss the curious decision by the Vancouver Canucks to publicly announce that they're looking to trade Chris Higgins, the interesting 48 hours the Florida Panthers just had, and why retaliatory hits need to stop being a thing. Plus, as promised last week we adopt the Boston Bruins. Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show (www.hockeypdocast.com/donate). There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl defensive end, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and, of course, the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React. R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

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Welcome to the Hockey PEOCast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich. joining me as always Travis Yost Travis what's going on man I am hanging in there how are you doing today I'm doing good

should we talk hockey or should we do making a murder or stuff I feel there was a lot of there was clamoring for that if people want it we're going to put it on the shelf but I still haven't finished it

so I'm sure yeah I'm sure by the time by the time I get to episode 10 by the time I get to episode 10 I'm sure we're going to have to revisit but for now we're all right yeah I'm like I've been stuck on episode 6 for a few days and I just can't get over, Ken Crats and his stupid mustache and all these guys

have stupid mustaches and I don't know, it just like drives me crazy. I can watch like one episode a week and then I just need to like just sit in the shower and just contemplate my life for like six days. Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at right now and I'm all of one episode ahead of you. So, uh, all right, let's talk about Ovechkin because you wrote about him today up on tsn.ca and obviously since we last recorded he scored his 500th goal which is pretty cool um i don't know i guess it's not really a hot take by any means he's a phenomenal goal score and i guess the point you raised is interesting just based on like kind of comparing him to guys from different eras and and how he stacks up that way because it's pretty clear that he's head and shoulders above any of his peers these years right

yeah it's not even close right um so the interesting discussion that i had yesterday with uh tywardello I guess a few other people, was to what degree or how far can you go when you compare a player like Ovechkin to a player like Gretzky and a player like How? Who played in just, you know, totally different errors and everything was totally different. The core component of my piece was, okay, if you adjust for the scoring atmospheres, each player played in, it makes you really appreciate more what Ovechkin's done because, you know, no one can score in the NHL right now. it just doesn't occur. Whereas Gretzky played in a time where he was scoring like a maniac, but you know, the league was high scoring too. And that probably partially, I don't know to what slice you want to call it. But yes, Gretzky would have probably been the leading goal score in any

era. But it's it's important to note that he also played an era where there was really high goal scoring. And we've seen that drop off by what? Like three goals a game now. So the whole point of it is to kind of at least push it into a discussion where you can say, okay, if we can normalize for the scoring atmospheres that each of these players played in, where would Ovechkin slot in compared to guys like Howe and Gretzky and Bosse? And I think you can make a pretty decent argument that, and I'm just talking strictly by his goal scoring talent, the ability to score goals. If he plays like seven or eight more seasons, And he just remains relatively productive and reasonably healthy.

I mean, I think you can make the discussion that he's one of the two or three best goals scorers ever. And depending on if he continues or sustains this degree of talent for a couple more years, he might expedite that conversation a little bit. But I just, I don't know. I find it it's very difficult to compare players from different eras. but at the same time, I think it's really going unappreciated how, like, just how dynamic he is relative to where everyone else is these days.

Yeah, well, I mean, it's twofold, right? Like, the goaltending is obviously just, you can't even compare them. That's the biggest thing. I mean, the game just in general is so different, right? Like, it's, it's just, it's tough to get around and, and create opportunities, let alone goals to begin with. So, like, it just, it really is apples and oranges. And when you kind of try to, uh, equate the two by adjusting them, it, it does, it does

paint an interesting picture of just like how dominant Dovechkin's been. So, I mean, let's say he plays seven or eight more years. He's, so actually, the one thing I found that was really interesting is, and maybe this is just the sheer volume play, but if you look

at adjusted goal numbers, they love Yarmiery Yager. I mean, the guy pops, I think he, and by sheer volume, I think he actually finishes second highest to Gordy hell, just based on the the time he spent in the NHL and when he played.

And it's a little different because I think part of the discussion is when you say who's the best goal score of all time, then it's, okay, there's two different discussions, right? It's like, well, how long did you do it for and how great were you when you did it? So, like, you'll have your guys like Lemieux and Rashard who were really peaked, but then they didn't have like the longevity of a how or a yager. So it's like, okay. Or even bossy you can throw in that conversation too. And it's like, you know, these guys at their primes were maybe the best, the best goals or goal scores we've ever seen.

But, you know, then there's like this longevity element to it. Like, well, how long did you do it for? And I don't really know. I'm not, like, super fascinated by that discussion. But I think at the very least, like, we need to push Ovechkin into this conversation. It's official. Well, and another kind of interesting, like, monkey wrenching at all is, like, as we, you know, it might be not Ovechkin's generation. It might come later.

But, like, just the longevity thing, like, how. how long these goal scores are able to continue, like, not necessarily at their peak, but close to it. Like, it'd be easy to say, like, okay, Ovechkin, like, he's already 30. Like, he should be, uh, his best days should be behind him, like, just based on kind of the aging curves that we know about. But like, he doesn't really have, like, he hasn't shown any, like, noticeable signs of decline yet, right?

Like, it's just, like, the pure volume is just so immense that even if the, like, the, the true talent comes down a little bit, he's still going to score so many goals just based on how frequently he fires a puck on the net. I saw the Department of Hockey analytics chimed in with a, he's a power play specialist yesterday. And I don't know why people still take that bait. That bait is so 2013 that I just saw it,

I saw it float through my timeline and I was like, yeah, I'm not doing this today. I saw someone else go, or I think it was when I was talking about Brent Burton's last week. I was mentioning how he's on a ridiculous pace for a goal scoring by a defenseman and then someone was like, oh, well, look how many times he shot the puck as if it was like a negative thing. Like they were kind of implying that he's being selfish.

And it's like, I don't think you understand how like this sport works. This, uh, this gets back into the larger point of like maybe sometimes Twitter isn't the best area to hash these things out. But I am vehemently opposed to expanding to 10,000 characters because you're just going to get paragraph upon paragraph. Let's just not go down that route. Think piece tweets. Yeah, pretty much.

Okay, so, Ovechkin, I mean, he just turned 30 before the season started, and obviously he just crossed the 500 goal mark. So let's say, like, he has around 40 games left this season. He scores 24 goals just for the sake of kind of having round numbers. That leaves him with 525 for his career at the end of the season. That's 33rd all time. Like, how high do you think is, like, a reasonable expectation for him? Because, like, you floated it out there, like, seven or eight more years. And I don't know, I mean, you can never really just take for granted just seven.

to eight healthy seasons, right? Like, it's one of those, regardless of whether the guy's going to be in his mid to late 30s or even if he's younger, like, it's just like, it's pretty tough to stay healthy for that long. But, like, I don't know. So the interesting thing with Ovechkin is he might be one of those players where you just have to ask, well, how long is he going to play, right? Because his contract, so I figure he could play seven or eight more years realistically. I think I said it at like seven in my article, but I think that put him around 37.

And once you start getting out of the mid-30s and 37 might be stretching to bit, You really are throwing a dart at that point, but I will say this. I don't know. I feel like no one mentions how durable Ovechkin has been in his career. The guy does not miss time. I mean, he's just never injured. And it's weird because we've seen, like, finesse players kind of be really durable. Like a very simple player, like Jay Bow had this, like, ridiculous Iron Man streak.

And, you know, he took his fair share of lumps, but he wasn't an overly physical player. And I think that lent itself well to staying on the line. up basically every night, but Ovechkin's like a train. Like the guy literally looks for contact and he just doesn't miss games. And when I say going forward, you just need reasonably healthy, I don't know, 70, 72 game seasons. Like that's understating what he's done for almost a decade. Now, yes, it's harder to get into the lineup every night when you're 35 as opposed to 25. But I don't know, how many games is it?

And again, you can't account for like the fluke ACL terror that randomly happens. That's just kind of there. But like the guy has just, I think it's probably fair to say that the guy handles minor injuries really well. He doesn't seem to miss much of any time. And that bodes itself well to your question of where can he actually finish? If he's 33rd-ish all time by the end of the year, how high can he go? Like I think there's a reasonable mountain. He can get inside the top 10.

I think like Messier, like in that group. So it's like 700. Yeah. Like I mean, think about it. Just kind of, if you kind of just do some quick math here, you say 20, 25 goals over the next seven seasons. That's 175 goals. I would put him right around 700. I'm doing this quickly on the fly.

But like he's in that, he's in that group. And I don't think anyone would say if a Vetch can play seven more years, he won't score 25 goals a season. Like, yeah, maybe it'll be like 45. 40, 35, 35, you know, it'll stepwise down. But, like, I don't know. I think that's a pretty fair assumption or assessment or forecast to make. And I think he could definitely get in that top 10. The question is, how high can he go?

And there's, like, this insurmountable Gretzky mountain that, like, you're never going to get in playing in this NHL. But, you know, he can get into that top 10. Well, okay, to your point about, like, his durability, I mean, he's missed 27 games combined his entire career, which is nuts. And a bunch of those are like suspensions. And like this year he missed one for like not not coming to the morning skate or whatever. Right.

Like it's he's probably, I think it's like probably 10 to 15 games. He's actually been out for his entire career. And it's he sort of reminds me of like LeBron James in the sense where it's just like these two guys that are just like different physical specimens than pretty much anyone else we've seen. Right. He's just like built like a tank. I mean he's like he really is like a huge heat seeking missile. He just goes around on the ice trying to hit everything he sees when he doesn't have the puck.

And it's remarkable that he hasn't like taken like a, an uncomfortable. spill and like broken a bone or something like that. It's kept them out. It's all been like sort of these small nagging injuries. And I think that's remarkable. It's really a testament. Obviously, there's a lot of luck involved, but I remember people used to kind of question his commitment to the game and how he would spend his summers and his party lifestyle. It's like, I'm pretty sure this guy's preparing himself pretty well. He's never injured. Thing to watch with Ovechkin. And the NHL is a little bit different. But I really think this is a pretty similar argument. Well, Bronn James, first of all, LeBron James does what LeBron James wants, and that's because he's the best player in the world, and you pretty much get all the leeway in the universe if you're in that position.

But it's funny because if you watch around the NBA, like, teams like the Spurs, like they're constantly sitting guys. And, you know, their lineup is older and they're transitioning a little bit now. But guys like Duncan and Genoble, William Parker, they'll sit. It almost feels like one of every four games. And it's just Greg Popovich constantly says, we're keeping them rested for the point. playoffs. Like, we're good enough. The regular season doesn't really matter. We're going to win enough games to make sure we get there. And in the playoffs, we want a full, healthy lineup. However, LeBron James does not miss games. It can be a November road game in New Orleans, and

he's going to play, and he's probably going to play 35 minutes a night. And this has been the LeBron James thing for, I mean, a decade plus, right? He's getting into that situation now where LeBron James is not young anymore. He is in, quote, older territory. And there's a lot of discussion following him around now. Is this the best way to optimize LeBron James? Because you want a fresh LeBron in the playoffs. And there's always a concern that when you play so many minutes and you refuse to come out of the lineup, it's kind of like, well, are we running into more risks than we really need?

Cleveland's going to coast into the playoffs. And the reason why I think this is important is like Ovetian's in a very similar situation, right? Like, he doesn't, you know, hockey, you know, hockey's a little more random, a lot more random, really. But like, Washington has such a stranglehold for a playoff spot right now. And I know it's important to get home ice. Like, I'm not saying they should sit Ovecgen at all. But I'm going to be watching to see how they handle his minutes, especially in March and April. And how they do that not just this year, but in the coming years.

Because, I mean, there really is no real, like a season like this, if Washington just keeps dominating. and you get into March and April or Washington has like this 10, 12, 14 point lead on the division. Like you probably can get away with playing Ovechkin like 14, 15 minutes a night. And you know, you got him out there. He's going to score his goals still. But, you know, the idea is to keep that body ready for the playoffs. And like it's an important consideration, I think, because he, even though he's 30,

he's got a lot of miles and it's the same thing with LeBron. Well, I was going to say, I mean, with the whole loser point and just like how tight all these races are, I mean, most teams don't have that luxury. but if there is one that does have it, it's Washington just running away with the metro. And maybe they don't need to go as extreme as like fully sitting him out. But yeah, I mean, if he doesn't really, there's no real reason to be playing him like over 20 minutes at any point in a game,

like at this point of the season. I mean, they've got it in cruise control pretty much. So Greg Popovich is, he's always been like talked about for his ability to manage minutes. But part of his minute management is just sit a guy occasionally. And then, you know, you'll have a game against Golden State or Houston, and Duncan will play 34 minutes. And I think it's like, you know, there's a balance. Like, you don't want to sit guys frequently, but a day off can mean the world for a guy who's, you know, most of these athletes, by towards the end of any season are dealing with some minor lumps and bruises and injuries.

And it's probably a far larger discussion than what Ovechkin, than what is just Alex Ovechkin? But I just think it's funny that you brought up O'Brien because it, like, ties almost perfectly. to Alex Ovechkin right now in the situation in the capital. Yeah, no, it does. Okay, let's move on to a less exciting and optimistic topic, but an interesting one, nonetheless, and it's the whole Chris Higgins situation in Vancouver, which, for those that missed it, basically what happened was over the weekend, I think it was on Sunday, there was like a town hall meeting here in Vancouver, and Trevor Lyndon told a bunch of people attending

there that they were going to look to trade Higgins, and then a few hours later, the teams official Twitter account actually tweets out a story about how they're looking to trade them. And I honestly can't really ever remember this happening before. Like, it's funny because it's with the same team. But I remember a few years back, Mike Gillis famously sent out like an email blast to all 29 other teams saying that Dale Weiss was available for peanuts. But this is a totally different one. Can you remember this ever happening before?

I've heard a couple times of the Dale Weiss thing happening, like GM basically, email. everyone and says, this guy's available. There's like a group thread on Facebook. Yeah. I haven't really ever recalled this happening. I find it odd that people think that this is the reason why a trade didn't get done. Because like no one was going to trade for Chris Higgins. First of all, let me point out, we're not going to slander a good Long Island boy on this podcast.

So Chris Higgins is off limits for the next half hour. But I will say this from the front office perspective. Like their whole, yeah, we're going to try and trade him in the next couple days. I don't, that wasn't the reason why a trade didn't happen. Like, I'm sure the team called around and realized that no one was going to trade for a player who hasn't really produced, especially recently on a fairly decent-sized contract and massive contract compared to what he's doing right now, I should say. But the other hand, I think the one oddity in this is,

I don't know Maybe this is just like a PR thing But the release It was just kind of weird It was like we're looking to trade him And then and then two days later And then two days later you put him on waivers Because there's no trade

And like I have to imagine that Vancouver realized That that was probably the likely outcome That they were going to issue this release And say we're going to trade him And then two days later Oh yeah we can't trade him We're going to put him on waivers I don't know

Maybe it's just probably better to If you really feel the need I obviously don't understand why they felt the need to do this, but if there was some reason, which I'm not privy to, that they felt like they wanted to get out in front of whatever story, do you make the core of the story we're trying to trade them? Because then you're self-indiding yourself, right? Like you're saying, we failed, we couldn't trade them, so we waived them.

I think it's kind of two-fold. I don't know how much this registered on, like, the national radar, but it was a big story here in Vancouver in the preseason where they pretty much just led Frankie Corado, who was like one of their best defense prospects, go to the Leafs via waivers for no real reason when they didn't necessarily need to do that to begin with. I mean, it's funny because Higgins was injured

and they could have just I-R'd him, but they chose not to instead. And that's kind of ironic, kind of twisting their back to this. And the second thing is, like, this team is just so PR-conscious and trying to, like, you know, appease to the fans and not get slandered by their fans.

And they've taken so many hits over the past couple years that I think they're trying to get ahead of it by being like, they probably realize they weren't going to be able to trade Higgins and then they could kind of circle back to this and be like, well, look, we tried. I mean, just check out our Twitter account. There's even a story here. Like, it seems ridiculous when you say it like that, but I legitimately think that's kind

of the thought process that was going through their mind. Yeah, the funny thing is how this has played out around the last night's game, which was amazing, the first fun Vancouver game to watch in like three years. So I have never seen, first of all, let me just say how great it is, that someone talked shit to Sadeen, and then he scores the game winner, and he goes by the bench. That is, like, if you want to be on the Travios, Mount Rushmore of favorite athletes, that's exactly what you need to do. I used to despise, this is very NBA-oriented right now, but I used to despise Paul

Pierce, mostly because he used to kill the Knicks. But when last playoffs, when they asked him, did you call bank? And he goes, I called game when he hit this game-winning shot in the playoffs. I thought that was the most amazing thing because I don't want, it's very hard to find something I enjoy more than a player who talks, talks, talks, and then backs it up and then let you know about it. And like the Sadiens don't really ever talk, but I'm sure you saw the clips of the exchange with Thornton and a couple other, a couple other Panthers players. And you knew Sadeen wanted to score that so badly. And the little flyby around the Florida bench was amazing. And then of course the whole scrap after. words it was uh you're bearing you're bearing the lead i mean the dennis pot fans rant on on the on the panthers broadcast was i mean we we had planned to do uh on thursday's show we're gonna kind of rank the top 30 local broadcast teams and i feel like that rant just like single-handedly vaulted them into the top 10 like that was first calling daniel sidina low life which is like remarkable

considering this how like just like graceful and widely respected the sidines are around the league and then the second thing like i've kind of still i'm still trying to wrap my head around it. It's been nearly 24 hours now and I still don't fully think I understand it, but like it was the moniest of all money quotes. Normally they only use those fingers to lick the peanut butter off their bread. I don't even, what does that even? If you, if you spread peanut butter on your bread, why are you licking it off with your fingers? What does that even mean? I'm not, yeah, that was that was, I didn't eat, so I was watching the Vancouver broadcast and I, I had saw someone had mentioned that like that quote floated out, but they didn't say who it was at all

or what broadcast. And I just remember I just retweeted. I was like, guaranteed this is Dennis Poppin because he, he's become like known for this. Like this is his, this is his wheelhouse, like saying crazy things. So I've mentioned this too in the past. But if you, and I think I uploaded the video, but a few years back, I think someone mangled a story to Dennis Popman about Eric Carlson being able to jump. It's like a standing one foot long jump, I think it is. And Poppin, the way he tells the story, the distance that, first off, no human can do this. This is like beyond Olympian talent. I can't remember the number. It's like 12 foot standing one foot long jump or something ridiculous. I don't know if the story got botched or the number got botched, but Popvin keeps saying

it over and over. So he's obviously the Ottawa color guy for a couple of years. And he mentioned the story two or three times. I remember hearing it first, I was like, that doesn't sound right. I heard it again on the next like the month later and I was like there's no way this is right. So I was checking the Olympic records and I'm like yeah, Carlson's beating every Olympian by like seven feet on this. So, so anyways, he goes to, you know, he works for Florida now and I've heard him iterate this story at least three or four times since they've played Ottawa. And every time he says it, he says it with like this like chuckle and like the hearty laugh that you know, you know from him. But I'm like, I don't know how many times you say there's no way this story's true. And it's just like this comical oddity. And like it's not the only thing.

He's just so entertaining. Like the peanut butter quote, I have no idea with them. I think he was like trying to make a reference. You know, like how people sometimes just like stick their fingers in a peanut butter jar and then eat the peanut butter off their fingers. Like I think he was making that sort of a reference. But then I don't get why he tossed in the bread component to it. Like it just like, I don't know. It was just such a convoluted thing.

And it's great. What I thought, what I thought it was, I thought it was some like old timey saying that like, you know, the 30, 40, 50, 60-year-olds would have understood. And I was like, maybe it's just our generation isn't getting it. No, I don't think so. But that clearly is not the case. And I don't want to spend too much time on this because we don't really know for sure, and it's all speculation.

But apparently, from what I've heard and read, the reason that whole kerfuffle kind of started was because Sean Thornton, I mean, obviously showing his worth by jumping on the ice between the end of the third period and OT where he couldn't be exposed as a bad hockey player because no one was actually playing around him, made some sort of reference to the Siddines about how they're still the same old sisters. And I don't know, I just like, we don't spend too much time on this, but it just, it's, this stuff's so annoying. Like, I, I, I can't believe that people still, like, find the need to get on the Siddines about, like, them being, quote, unquote, soft. Like, I just don't even know where this comes from. I mean, do you see that,

that picture from a few games back of, uh, of Daniel Sadee with, like, a bunch of teeth missing. It's just blood all over his face. He's just, like, sitting on the bench. And if he was a Canadian guy, I mean, that obviously probably would have led a hockey night in Canada and Don Cherry would have just been talking about our own coach's corner. So, I don't know, I just wanted to give the Cedines a little bit of love because they're just such remarkable players.

So the whole Cedean thing is, I don't know, maybe it's just me. I don't believe that, and I saw that, I think Jason Poschra wrote that it was something along the lines of same old Sadeen sisters, something to that effect. I just feel like that that's been iterated so frequently, and maybe it's not said so much on the ice anymore. I just find it hard to believe that that was what snapped Sadiene in the first play. You know what I mean? Like it just seems so, yeah, it's so lame and so beaten and so dry. But I just feel like the Siddins who never react to anything and have probably heard a hundred times worse stuff on the ice.

I don't know. I just, I don't necessarily believe that that exactly what was said because that reaction. Maybe there was a lead up to it And then that was like the tipping point It just feels like there was so much more to that Because I don't know The whole like Siddine says I think I've read that on Twitter every day

For the last five years Can we just can we just like retire that I mean just purely because like It just It sort of implies that it's like an insult To be a woman as if it's like Some sort of downgrade like Oh you're not a you're not a strong manly man

You guys are sisters It's like I don't understand Like that misogy has like no business being around in 2016 in any capacity. Yeah, it was just terrible. It's unfunny. It's, it's, you know what it is? It's not even funny. It's not even good. It's not even a good comment. It's just not funny, not entertaining. I remember the first time I heard it, I was like, wow, it's pretty weak. Yeah. And that was like seven years ago, eight years ago. Yeah. So since then, since, so since 2005, let me tell you what I've done with my life. It's pretty much been that

way. So I, uh, it's extremely exhausting. Every time I hear it now, I'm just like, oh, we're still on this. We're still on this. Still doing it. So, um, and I guess that goes back to my point, though. I just feel like it's, it's such a thing and it will never die that I find it hard to believe that two guys, maybe the most mild minored guys in the sport are just, they just lose it because some guy who can't even play hockey mentioned this in the middle of a game. And I don't know. Probably more to it. I'd love to know if there was. Yeah. Well, the, I mean, the Panthers that are pretty interesting. think 48 hours there. I mean, obviously that game happened last night, but the night before, they had a game in Edmonton where they won with 14 shots on goal. And the result, more like, result aside. I think the thing that kind of struck me was just like Edmonton's desire. And I guess it's like a media thing. It's not even the Oilers themselves. Just like, this is kind of like bringing out the pitchforks and like just like a lust thing for blood. Like I don't understand like what like, okay. So the, in your opinion, the Taylor Hall, the good Branson Taylor Hall hit in the neutral zone.

That was just like a good, clean, hard hit, right? Like, it wasn't dirty by any means, in my opinion. Yeah, I think it was a pretty, obviously, amazing, like, violent hit. I didn't think it was dirty per se. I watched it a few times. Hall got his clock cleaned. But I don't find anything, like,

objectively wrong with that, but, and this is something I mentioned. I think Dave Losa wrote about it, and I was the Edmonton media, the local media is so rock hard for any type of fight or physical violence. Like, you would think that they want guys to attach bayonets to their sticks. In the case that a potentially objectionable hit is thrown on the ice. It's just so played out.

You want to hear something more played out than, quote, Sedeen sisters. It's the Edmonton media's lusting, as you put it, for just violence. I think there was one person in particular who was he wasn't even calling for retribution, which is dumb it up in its own right. He was just calling for just some form of violence. And, you know, I don't get it. Why don't we just attach, you know, handguns? Why don't we holster handguns on the ice? Just a little fashion shoot out? Yeah. Yeah, why not? I mean, you don't have to shoot them in the head. You can shoot them in the thigh,

get it. It's just a flesh wound. Like, no big deal. I don't know. It's just, it's such a comical thing because it comes up basically every single game. And every time the Oilers lose, it's never because they have a lack of talent. It is always because they have no team unity. They don't stand up for one another. They don't fight. They don't kill. And that's basically, I think I've read that in every possible form since, I don't know, the hobby boolean years. Yeah.

Well, I mean, speaking of things that are just like tired and played out and we really need to get past, it's this whole idea of retribution. And for anyone that hasn't checked it out, I'd recommend Cam Cole in the National Post wrote this really good article where he basically just teed off on the idea that like an eye for an eye exists in hockey still. And like, I just don't get it because, okay, Taylor Hall takes this clean hit and even if it's like slightly borderline, I don't understand why now all of a sudden Aaron Ekblad has a target on his back and needs to watch out because his teammate did something. Like it just, it's so silly to me.

and then you see Ekblad just take a completely unnecessary hit where he just gets stapled up against the boards. And he has that thing where his helmet flies off and his hair is everywhere. And he's trying to get up, but his legs are just basically noodles. And of course, you know, the concussion spotters allow him to stay in the game and have a few shifts after that, of course, which is always great to see. And then he scratched the next night and, you know, I guess we'll see what his prognosis is. But I think that's the sort of stuff we need to get out of the game. Because, like, if you're really serious about head injuries and kind of toning that stuff down, like these sorts of Retribution acts are just so uncalled for.

I've always thought that, I don't want to go down this hole any further, but I've always thought that the whole, especially the Edmonton media thing and really just media, and I will include it to fans, but I don't know, it's just, I feel like it's not as a percentage as much affixed the fans as it as media, especially in certain markets, but like the whole calling for retribution and looking for violence, just looking for any reason to justify violence in the middle of a hockey game. And when I say violence, I don't mean throwing functional body checks and, you know, hits that like ones we've talked about in the past where I was like, that's amazing hit.

I'm talking about the ones where you're just trying to basically hurt a guy. I honestly think it stems from this massive inferiority complex that a lot of people have. You could tell that these people have never probably been in a fight in their entire lives. They think it's a great thing. And they want everyone to go out there and just throw bombs left and right at one another's face. and they don't really see, oh, this guy was out for 18 months with concussion symptoms because they cashed their check. They leave the press box. They go home and they return the next day. And they don't really care about what the after effects are. And that's to me is the one of the big drivers

or reasons why I think you see this so frequently. So, you know, I'm in a weird spot because I am technically media as weird as it is to say. But like there's certain things I just won't like, There's certain things I will let go, and there's certain things I just, I'm not going to let go, and I'm just going to keep reminding them. Number one on that list is forcing the public to fork over money for billionaire arenas corporate welfare, and number two on that list might be, let's fight for the sake of fighting. And I'm just not, I'm not going to let those things go. And basically, every time it's brought up, I'll probably retweet the person or persons,

and I'll probably make fun of them. And this is my little way of giving back, I guess. Yeah. All right, let's get to adopting the Bruins as we promised for, I feel like a week now. I don't know. Where do you want to start with him? Patrice Burson's good. Yeah, I've definitely heard of him.

Good podcast. Okay, we did it. We solved the mystery of the Bruins. I don't know. I think we should probably talk about the blue line. What is your read on that? Because I saw a couple things in the last few days that were eyebrow raising in their last two games. And I want to see if you kind of fall in line.

with that? Well, I remember at the start of the season, I think it was only like a couple weeks in maybe, and we were, we kind of pointed out that the Bruins were amongst the worst in the league in terms of giving up goals against. They were right in the neighborhood of Edmonton and Calgary and Columbus and obviously since then

things have gotten a lot better and rask rocking a cool 957 percentage in December. It definitely helps with that. But like, I don't know, it's one of those things where they're relying so heavily on Zadino Chara who is still amongst the league leaders in terms of usage, even though he's, what, turning 39 years old soon.

And all the other guys that are kind of on that list with him are all like in their prime in their mid-20s. And it's just remarkable what he's still able to do. And I wonder as the year goes along, if they keep asking him to play that much, whether the wheels are eventually going to come off there. But I don't know, like I like certain guys like Colin Miller, for example, and Zach Trotman's been interesting.

But then there's a whole lot of like Dennis Sidenbergh looks so washed up. And the other Miller, Kevin, isn't a very good hockey player. And they're asking guys to, to kind of step in and play there, then I'm not sure that it's a Esler necessarily a recipe for success moving forward. So the Dennis Seidenberg thing, I think we even touched on that. That is just not fun to watch when he's on the ice anymore. It's sad because it used to be a pretty effective player, right?

Really good career. Like no harm, no foul, dude. You put in unbelievable years. So this is the type of defenseman where you recognize what he's done many, many years ago and basically up to the last season or two. And you say, wow, this guy had an unbelievable. career. You don't hold this against him in any way, shape, or form. But as a front office slash coaching staff, he need to recognize that 2007 Dennis Seidenberg is no longer on your roster. It's

2015, 2016, Dennis Seidenberg, and he's not very effective anymore. The Zadano Chara thing is, like, I feel like we've been talking about this. And I think we might even brought this up, too. But remember, like, it felt like basically five years was Zan O'Hara, where it was like, oh, is this the year he tapers off? And he was like, nope, at the end of the year, I was like, nope, he was ridiculous again. And I think we are, we're at that point. I think it's pretty fair to say.

Now, the last, the last hundred or so games for Zadano Charra haven't been great. They've been good. And like, it's pure will at this point. Yeah, you can definitely get by with a good Zadano Char on your lineup. Like, he's still a lot better than a lot of other defensemen around the league.

But he no longer can basically single-handedly carry your back end, which he almost did for, it felt like a decade. It's, uh, it's really remarkable what he did as well. Um, but just there, there were times in the Rangers game, uh, the Rangers game last night. He just, he just looked slow at times. And like, you saw that like maybe one shift a game, um, in his prime and then like the other 20 shifts. He was just the hulking bodies around and no one would beat him. And it was the Bermuda triangle around his area in the defensive zone. And I don't know, it just feels like a little bit more frequently these days, guys are getting around him, and he's not able to use his size and strength

as effectively. And it was a sequence towards the end of that Rangers game where he was trying to touch up for an icing, I think, and he just kind of was like glacially skating towards the puck. And it was like, this is not great. But look, they just, at this point, Boston needs to recognize. Look, the guy needs some help. The guy probably would be better off playing a few less minutes. But then if that's the question.

Well, they don't really have that luxury. Exactly. The answer has to be, well, who picks up those minutes? And it's just not there right now. So right now you're forced to basically overplay Zanahar a little bit. Until they address that situation, that's what it's going to be. Yeah, no, that's definitely true. He used to be a just like the type of guy would pretty much erase every single mistake in front of them. And now the kind of room for error, I guess the baseline for him is significantly different. And it's just like it's all a relative thing, right? Like there's plenty of guys out there who sit there. On Zadero-Chara on his worst day, even in 2016, would still be, like, the best thing they could hope for. But it's just, like, the standard we're used to from him. It's not what it used to be. And I don't know. It's interesting because this Bruins team is under the 50% mark in possession and scoring chances. And it's been a pretty precipitous decline since what we saw from them, I guess, two years ago.

I mean, even last year when they didn't make the playoffs, they were still, like, nearly 52% or something like that. And I don't know, it's kind of been salvaged by the fact that obviously Rask has been really good lately. and the power play has been pretty much historically great. I look back and the 06-07 Red Wings is pretty much the only team in terms of shot rates and goal rates that compare to what they're doing right now in the past decade or so. So that's kind of helped them out. But at 5-on-5, they're just really not the kind of Bruins we'd expected from in years past.

Yeah, they just, their whole system was just forechecking like lunatics and no one never generated any shots and a lot of the stuff came from the perimeter. and I actually think they were probably one of two or three teams that probably had some marginal impact on shot quality in the defensive zone against. I will say this, though, it was great to read all those Tukaraski isn't good anymore comments. That lasted for a whole two weeks. The guys are really good goaltender. I don't know how many more thousands of minutes you need him to play,

but he is in that top tier. He's probably the big reason why they are in the playoff race. And the other big reason is that division, as we've mentioned, sucks. It's just not a good division. So we can talk about how Boston looks extremely mediocre. And I think that's probably the best way to describe them at this point. Can they get into the playoffs with essentially a Berger Online, which is always going to dominate, Chara, who can obviously still give you a lot of good minutes and a really good goaltender?

Like, can that be enough? I think so. I mean, there's five points right now separating second and six in that division. and they're kind of right in the middle, smack dab in the middle there. And I think all those teams, like, they're a one you definitely don't want to see in the playoffs just because, like, they can really shorten the game if they, if they play Bergeron and Marchand, like, 20 minutes, let's say, and Rask is on fire. And if Krati comes back, it kind of gives them that second score line that they can shelter.

And as I said, the power play has been amazing this year. And it definitely kind of has the recipe for, like, an upset if they play a team that might kind of on paper it be better than them, but they just pull it out. So I'm pretty sure no one really still wants to play them in the playoffs, even though they are mediocre, as you said. Are they better than Florida right now? I think so. Do you think Boston's better than Florida? It's a toss-up. I mean, they're both such top-heavy teams. I think I like Boston's top and more. I guess the better way to put it, and it's kind of silly because we just talked about how they're playing Zidino-Chara way too much, and we're wondering

if that can last. I think the Panthers have a lot of chips invested in three guys who are in their late 30s or into their 40s. And at least for the Bruins, some of these guys are kind of still in the prime of their career. And I think it's just like more feasible that they're going to hold up as the year goes along. The Panthers are getting unbelievable seasons from Yarmier-Yer-Yager, who's like 100. You see Okaninan who we talked about, who is no spring chicken. And Brian Campbell, who is no spring chicken either. And Roberto Wall of his 930s, say percentage.

Yeah, it's exactly. the case. I don't really know. It's just these two teams, they feel so driven by old-ass guys on the roster. And like, these old-ass guys just happened to be elite when they were in their prime and they're still very good. So we should maybe expect that to taper off. But I just, I kind of wanted to gauge where you're at because you were, you were pretty high on Florida coming into theater relative to where I was. And I think, I think we were pretty much on the same page with Boston. But I don't know, like, the reason why I ask is I feel like it's very hard to get a read on this Boston. Boston team too. Like I'm not, there's some teams we'll talk about and I'll be pretty passionate that they're good or they're, they're bad. And maybe it's the mediocreness, but I just don't really have, they're, they are what they are. They're like a top heavy one line, one pairing team. And occasionally their depth looks okay. And occasionally it's terrible. And Tugarask is a really good goaltender, even though no one likes them in Boston. And that's kind of where they're at. Like I even still, though, I think that might be enough because just of how that division's played out.

Well, yeah, I think that's okay. I mean, we don't necessarily have to have. a strong opinion about everything, right? Like, it's perfectly reasonable to be like, listen, and I feel the same way with the Panthers. So it's interesting, you brought that up where it's like, this team isn't very good, but they're also not terrible. And it's conceivable that they could put together a stretch that's going to have them winning more games than they lose. And I don't know, the landscape around them is also equally as mediocre, if not more mediocre. So there's an opening there. Like, that's where we're at with them. Is there any team we feel passionate about in that division, either good or bad. Oh, man. I guess the HABs, if Kerry Price comes back and he's

Kerry Price, like I... You are, you are confident they are a good team. I think so, yeah. Yeah, I think so, too. So I would jump on that with you. And I'm pretty confident relative to the rest of the division that Buffalo is fighting upwards. I obviously think they have tremendously improved from a year ago. Yeah. But outside of like Toronto, who's actually not playing bad hockey in the last like month or so. I don't know. They're relative to our playoff discussion, they are obviously punching way, way up and way out of their weight,

group right now. But beyond that, like Boston, Ottawa, Florida, Tampa Bay, Detroit, like, it's just this mediocre middle pool of just averageness. And every team has just obvious flaws. And every team has like very good top in talent. Like I hear this so much about like, not to bring this to an Ottawa thing. but like I hear so much.

Ottawa has this unbelievable top-end talent. Could not agree more. But like Boston as Patrice Burjohn is Dano Char and Brad Marchand. That's pretty good top-end talent in Tukaris. Florida, we've talked about it like they've got some pretty good top-end talent. Like it's pretty hard to have no, you know, first line. Every team has like three or four really good players. Yeah, it's just kind of how the, that's why they can put a really good all-star team together in that division.

But beyond that, like, I don't know. I guess I'm still optimistic about Tampa Bay, but I'm holding my breath. I've died like 40 times. I'm just hoping I don't die another 40 times. God, yeah. No, it's wide open. I feel like if we went, like, it's good we're kind of hedging our bet here because if we went like with a strong opinion either way,

we could definitely wind up looking pretty silly in a couple months. I know we're going to do this Thursday, but I have to say, since we're just talking about the Bruins, very quickly. Yeah. The NESN broadcast is not bad. I am going to challenge anyone to prove to me that that is a bottom three or bottom five broadcast anymore. Like, I used to be so cool on that team a few years ago.

I legitimately think Jack Edwards and Berkeley have improved. And again, I encourage anyone. If you think that that broadcast is bad, can you please watch some of the other local broadcasts around the league? Yeah. Well, it's not even that they're not bad. I think they're actually objectively good. Like, they're not great, but as you said.

So I can see that Jack Edwards could rub people the wrong way. And like, I'll say this. I'm more on the fence with him than I, like, I think Brick does a pretty damn good job of, like, teaching me things along the way. And yeah, so if you, it depends on how your scale weighs. And we'll get into this way more on Thursday. But like, if you are, if you really want a super objective broadcast, then that's not for you. But if, like, you grade, if you anticipate a little homerism and like, okay, yeah, maybe

they're a little over a little homerism, but you can still make the argument that like, it's, you know, I don't really care about it as much as like entertain me, show me what's going on. Teach me something. I don't know that I didn't know five minutes ago. They like, I feel like they're average to above average in that group. And when I said this, there was like this visceral reaction. Like, you're crazy. And I'm like, have you watched the Anaheim broadcast recently? I mean, I hate the break of the people, but every single local broadcast team is, is just a group of homers, right? Like, it's, they follow the team every day and they cover them. And they just, that's just the way it is. And you kind of have to go into it with that mindset. Like,

if you are watching a local broadcast, you sort of have to understand, yes, these guys are probably not going to be the most objective and impartial bunch. But I think, like, I just enjoy Jack Edwards, because going into it with that mindset, like, I just enjoy his enthusiasm. And, like, you can legitimately tell that he just loves hockey. And I don't know, it just kind of rubs off on me where I'm just like, okay, like, I'm kind of excited to watch this game now. Like, this guy's very clearly loving this game regardless of who they're playing. Um, I think it was, God, I'm terrible at remembering who points out things to me, but someone had mentioned that he could make like a November game against like,

I don't know, pick a random Western conference team. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he can make it entertaining, more entertaining than it should be. And like that's a huge testament. Like I feel like Mike Breen in the NBA is so good at that. Like he and I feel like he's probably the best play-by-play guy in sports right now or at least in that top two or three conversation. And that's like his staple too is like, you can be watching this is just random Pelicans game.

it's like, oh, Mike Brie's on the call, and it's like, I like it a little better than I did five minutes ago. So, yeah, fair enough. Okay, well, that's a nice little tease if people are like that past couple minutes. We'll do a lot more of that on Thursday when we, we rank the teams. We won't do like one through 30 because I don't have a crazy strong opinion about every, every broadcast team, but we'll kind of break them into tiers like we do with the watchability rankings at the start of the year. Fair enough. And we will, I also promise, we'll eventually get to adopting the Islanders.

I know we promised we would a week ago or so. And we haven't gotten around to it yet, but some of those trades kind of threw a wrench in our plans. And there was a bunch of random things to talk about today, so we'll get to it eventually. Yeah, Islandish fans don't kill us. And besides, we talked with them a little bit back in the end of October, November. So we got a little wiggle room.

Okay. Cool, man. Well, we'll check back in on Thursday and we'll go from there. All right, man. Before we get out of here, I'd like to give a quick shout out to a few people who have supported the Hockey Pideost over the past couple days. Aaron White, Addis Milden, Brett Lombarda, Artu Poikalinin, and Joshua Sokolovich.

Thanks to you guys for helping us out. And for everyone, for listening and all the nice words and feedback you guys have been sending our way. If you haven't done so already, we would greatly appreciate you take a, it takes a minute, two minutes tops to go and leave a rating and review on iTunes for the show. It's a quick little thing for you, but it means a lot to us. So thanks again for listening and we'll be back in a couple days.