The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 52: Coming Down With a Case of The Flyera

Episode Date: January 21, 2016

Frank Seravalli joins the show to help unpack a thoroughly entertaining Flyers season, but for wildly different reasons than the ones we've become accustomed to in years past. We discuss how they've gone in a completely different direction building their team, whether we can finally buy in to Steve Mason, how fun Shayne Gostisbehere is to watch, and whether they'll be able to help themselves once they finally have money to spend again. Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show (www.hockeypdocast.com/donate). There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl defensive end, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and of course the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

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And joining me is Frank Saravali. Frank, how's it going, man? I'm doing well, Dimitri. Thanks a lot for having me. Yeah, absolutely. I hope that my co-host, Travis Yost, isn't jealous that I'm cheating on him with you because I know that he likes to talk about the Philadelphia Flyers quite a bit.

So I don't know how he's going to take not being part of this discussion, but hopefully we'll have enough fun without him anyways. I'm sure he'll manage. So I wanted to bring you a lot. on to talk about this team because it's just been an endlessly fascinating one for me to follow this season and I guess for wildly different reasons than they've been in years past and I guess you can speak to this as well as anyone since you cover the team but there was a period there not too long ago where they were essentially in that bill Simmons Mike Tyson zone where they built up

so much equity with doing hilarious questionable things with their decision making and whatnot that there pretty much wasn't a single story or headline that I could read or hear about them that I wouldn't believe. So I don't know. Like you don't cover the team anymore, obviously, but you're still pretty dialed in with the situation around there. Like, just how big of a, how big of a flip in, I guess, philosophy or just like a 180 in terms of the fundamental way they're running the team, has it been this year compared to years past? Well, it's incredible because, I mean, as you mentioned, look at some of the names that they've been involved in, even though they never ended up getting the player. Like, they were in on Zach Parise,

They were in on, I believe, Ryan Suter. They were in on Rick Nash at a certain point. Like, any player that has come down the pike as being available in the last, I don't know, six, seven, eight years, the flyers, you could invariably link them in one way or another. And I think it's funny because they're actually popping up again now in conversation with Jonathan Druland and possibly prying him from Tampa Bay. So that's another situation, but it seems like it's for an entirely different reason because he would be one of those pieces that this team could build around

offensively to go around with some of the nice defensive prospects that they've stockpiled over the last couple of years under Ron Hextall. And I think the other crazy thing, too, is, you know, the flexibility that Ron Hextall has had with owner Ed Snyder, because it's one thing to spend a lot of money and to get into the mix for all these players and obviously risk signing guys to terrible contracts. but it's another thing to have the blessing from the same owner to pay out all that money

and retain a lot of salary and pay buyouts for players that aren't on your roster anymore to try and make the situation better. So if you look at all the money that Ed Snyder is swallowing in trying to make this team better and put them back on track, like that to me is probably one of the things that isn't really talked about all that often. You look at Brze Gallops, buyout, and of course they had Danny Breyer's buyout in that same summer then they have this trade with Vinula Cavalier where they end up retaining some salary,

which might end up working out because he's tentatively scheduled wink-wink to retire at the end of the season. And then you have some other guys that they're retaining some money on too. Nick Roseman and Luke Schen, of course. So a lot of money in play with some buried contract as well, like Andrew McDonald and just a ton of money on the books for guys that aren't even playing for your team, which is a pretty wild scenario.

Yeah. Well, okay, I didn't want to cut you off there earlier, but I should mention that somehow while you were talking about all the free agents in years past that they haven't been involved with, you didn't mention Shea Weber, which I'm sure that listeners, they're listening to the show right now. We're just yelling at their phones right now, so I should mention that. Oh, I mean, how could you forget about 110 million?

I think you signed that offer sheet, like, at 3 o'clock in the morning. I'm pretty sure I lost, like, a week's worth of sleep that week. Well, no, that's a really good point you mentioned about the ownership and taking advantage of that luxury. And we're seeing a team in Toronto with the Maple Leafs kind of doing a similar thing where it's an advantage. But it's, you know, the teams haven't taken advantage of it in years past in those cities. And it's something to be said for actually kind of having the wherewithal to accomplish that. And I don't know, it's just looking at the moves they've made and how they've assembled this team, it's fascinating because it's, It's such a 180 from what they look like even a couple of years ago when they were competitive.

I mean, they still have some flashy talent up front, but a lot of it is, I'd argue the backbone of the team right now is the goaltending, considering they have the best 5-1-5 performance net when you combine the starters and backups. And the blue line, if it's not one of their strengths right now, it certainly will be in a year or two when guys like Proverrobb and Sandheim come up and join Delzado and Gostis Bear. So I don't know, just like, you think this is kind of Hextal's vision, or do you think this has been something in the works for a while and he's just executing it? No, I think this is Hextal's vision because I think along the way, maybe even with Paul Holmgren, too, there was a recognition that this team had a lot of dinosaurs on defense and dinosaurs that were making a lot of money as well. Yeah, I mean, Pimo Teeman was an All-Star defender here for a long time, but it was pretty clear even that two or three years. ago that he really couldn't keep up with the way that the pace of the game was changing. And even Chris Pronger, for as well as he played at being a Hall of Famer, you could tell that he was starting to slow down a bit too.

And like, even when he retired, he said it was one of the first things like, man, the game is getting so fast. Like, he's like, you know, it was hard to keep up at times. And he could still make those great passes and keep himself in position with his efficiency playing. But still, you know, I think this team realized that. probably in failing to get Shayweber that the only way to really get a number one defenseman is to grow one through your own system. And I think, you know, a lot can be said about the fires not drafting or not even having a first round pick for a period of three or four years

and how much that damage their system, but also even in terms of the picks that they made and some of the college free agents that they signed, I'm not sure that the development system was in place in order to really get those players to the NHL once they picked them up. So sometimes the draft is a bit of a crapshoot once you have them. But there's other teams that have made some picks that they maybe were off the wall a little bit, but did such a better job growing those players and putting them in a position to succeed in development and spending a lot of time of them. And I think that's another thing that Ron Hexel is really focused on. But you're right.

I mean, the composition of this team has totally changed. And I think the interesting part about the Flyers possibly being in the mix on Drew at is like, you know, it's pretty clear to see the blueprint and where this team is heading, but, you know, what, what are Claude Giroux and Jake Warcheck going to look like by the time this team gets to where they want to be? Are they going to be, you know, still serious impact players in this league? I would imagine that Girou would be for sure, but again, he's not a big guy and takes a beating. So, like, you wonder how long can their bodies keep up. He's 28, turning 29 in a bit. So, you know, it's a really interesting

scenario moving forward how this team shapes up offensively to try and keep up. And because even with those guys that they have now, they've still really struggled to score. Well, that's a good point. And speaking of Juru and Vorechik, I did want to ask you while I had you here about kind of the combination that they finally put together with Vorechik, Zeru and Simmons all playing on the same line at 515. And for years now, it's been one of those things where I kind of looked at that dynamic and thought to myself, okay, this is an obviously devastating combination. The flyers should just be rolling these guys out every single, every single opportunity they can and taking advantage of the opposition. And it's one of those things where it just

didn't work out for whatever reason. And from what I gather, it's that Vorichick and Simmons both kind of wanted to play on the right wing and they couldn't mesh that way and the chemistry wasn't working and so on and so forth. But this year, Vorichick's kind of, at least recently over the past, I guess a handful of games, Vorichick shifted over to the left wing and made that adjustment. And they've taken off. last I checked they'd played around 100 minutes together a 5-on-5 and they were controlling something absurd, like 57% of shot attempts and 60% of scoring chances or whatnot. And it makes sense from what we're watching with our eyes where there's just absolutely destructive together. And I'm sure that the other team, once they see those three guys jumping over the boards together,

it must be thinking, oh, crap, this is this again, this is going to hurt. And I don't know, just like watching them, like it felt like it should have been something that happened a long time ago, right? but I guess it just kind of needed some time, I guess, or an adjustment by Warwick to make it finally happen? Yeah, I think you hit it right on the head, though, when you said that there was probably an unwillingness there on either Wayne or Jake's part to play on the left side. And it's one of those things, I think, you know,

Wayne mentioned the idea of it. And then I remember from asking these guys last year about it, I think Wayne mentioned the idea of it. Jake said, no, I'd like to stay on the right side. and I think that's kind of where the conversation died a little bit. But I think, you know, it makes perfect sense, like you're saying, and the numbers certainly back that up, what our eyes are seeing. But it's one of those things, too, and you'd be able to answer this better than I have,

because I haven't taken a very close look at the numbers, but do the flyers have enough firepower offensively at the bottom of their lineup if you're putting all three of these guys together on one line to really make the rest of the matchups work? Because obviously it's so easy to, you know, if you have won, definitely, line. It's pretty easy for coaches to play the matchup game and try and get a matchup that they like and try and take advantage of that and shut the flyers down as much as possible. Do they have

enough firepower to control some parts of the game with the rest of their three lines? Well, that's a fair point, just in the sense that we see certain teams kind of front load their line up up front and try to go power versus power and then just hold the fort with their other three lines. And I think Sean Kachurier is kind of progressive development into, he's obviously, you know, the defensive part of his game has always been rock solid. And the offensive part of it this year is really kind of come into form. And his 5-1-5 production is amongst some pretty elite company in the NHL. And I think people are slowly coming around to the idea that he's just a really, really good player in all facets of the game rather than just the one end of the ice. So that,

that emergence helps. And I don't know, they have guys like Matt Reed and Scott Lodden and whatnot. And and now they acquired Jordan Wheel, and he's playing on their third line, and I think they're kind of hoping that they're going to be able to piece it together and basically just, you know, keep their head above water long enough for the, for the top line to come back out there. So it's interesting to see whether it's a sustainable thing moving forward. I agree they might have to sort of split up the wealth, but it's just so, so dominant together that you'd think that you just ride it while you can, I guess. Yeah, I agree.

But, you know, the other thing, too, you touched on Ketiria, and he's one of the guys that I wanted to talk about because it's funny, like, why did it take so long for the rest of the league or maybe the rest of the fans to try to come to the sense that he really is an elite player? Like, I've gone through so many of his numbers, and, you know, I was probably one of the few guys that was driving the bus on his campaign the last year or two seasons saying, like, okay, like, if you look at what he's done based on the minutes that he plays in the offensive zone and the zone starts that he gets, his numbers offensively, even in your game. years past have been on par with a guy like Patrice Bergeron, who of course is sort of the model

all-around player in the league. And now finally we're seeing him put in a little bit more of a balanced role in terms of deployment. And he's got 19 points in his last 24 games. So, you know, he had a rough start with just three points in his first 14. But, you know, he's a guy that, to me, should be turning heads. And I think that's one of the other things with Ron Hexon. that he probably deserves a bit of credit for his signing to Trier to that deal that he did last summer, bumping him up to 4.3 million AAV for the next few years, sort of as a preemptive strike coming off of that tiny bridge deal that he had, kind of sensing that with the right coach and

deployed the right way that his numbers would shoot up, because that's something that Craig Berube was entirely unwilling to do over the last couple seasons. Well, and you can speak to this better than I can, but I feel like, correct if I'm mistaken, but there was a little period there where there was like, there was a tipping point was being reached where I felt like Kuchurier could have possibly been had for way less than he was actually worth. Like I feel like, I don't know if it was two years ago, maybe, but there was one summer there where there was a lot of rumors flying around about, I think Phoenix at the time was interested or whatnot. And it was, it was. Ghi And Ghi And Ghiando, if I recall correctly. Right. And Giacan was obviously

a fantastic player, but the kind of age difference there and the cost effectiveness is, is obviously heavily slanted in Kuturier's favor. And I don't know, I guess good on the flyers for realizing what they had and locking him up because, yeah, you're right. He's such a fantastic player and he moves the needle so much. And I think fans generally that don't necessarily watch him much or don't really appreciate all the context that his kind of resume requires to fully appreciate, don't realize what he's doing just because he might not necessarily have the total package in terms

of counting numbers, right? Like, his goals and assists are necessarily overwhelming, but that's mostly because he's not racking up and inflating those totals on the power play. And that's something that you kind of need to keep in mind when you're evaluating a player. So, no, Kuturi is amazing, and he really does just everything well. Well, I think it's also a demeanor thing, too. Like, I'm not sure, and, like, it's maybe like a posture thing.

Like, I'm not sure that he passes the eye test necessarily for a casual fan watching the game. Like, if you're not really, really. taking a deep dive at the numbers and realizing what he's doing for your team defensively and what he's produced offensively, you know, given his limit opportunity in the past, people probably look at him and say, oh, look at this guy, he has some talent, was a pretty good player and a high draft pick, but he doesn't look like he's skating hard sometimes, doesn't look like he's always someone that's going to, you know, the corners and playing in pretty areas, and that's why he isn't scoring. But I think so much of his focus has been on posture

defensively in terms of being in a smart position high in the offensive zone that sometimes it looks like he's someone that's unwilling to be involved and really he's just focusing on making sure his team doesn't get scored on. That's definitely right. All right. Let's move on and talk about Steve Mason because this is something I've been kind of just, I've mentioned it in a line and whatnot, but even before then I'd been kind of mulling it over in my head and trying to make sense of it. And it's one of those things where we saw after his good rookie season, there was three and a half years there where he was sort of a punchline where he just couldn't stop a puck and he was a just everything was getting through him and then when the flyers

acquired him near the deadline I I remember making a lot of jokes just thinking it was a total match made in hell where it was this goalie starved organization that had fumbled that position for for so many years and then you had this guy who just couldn't seem to get out of his own way and I don't know what happened there a lot of it's been attributed to jeffrease and kind of some work he's done with him on the technical side of things or maybe it just took some time for him to click. I mean, he wouldn't be the first guy to have too much success too soon and kind of take a little step back and regress and have to put it all together again. But for whatever reason, he's been amazing. And looking at it, since he came to Philly, basically Rask and Price are

the only two guys that have a better 5-1-5% percenters than him. And it's 150 games worth of data now. So you kind of sort of have to start buying in, right? I mean, I've been bought in for a while, and it's funny, like, I actually raised the question maybe, I guess it was, the sample size obviously wasn't large enough when I raised it, but at some point, there was, you know, there was talk about who Canada's third goalie would be for the Olympics, and there definitely wasn't nearly enough sample size at that point, but I was, he had already started to play so well, like, I was literally, like, laughed off of Twitter when I said, like, hey, what about Steve Mason, like, take a look at his numbers, and,

now, like, I'm not claiming that, like, any sort of credit for, you know, being looking ahead, but, like, it takes sometimes, you know, like a fresh approach and, like, an open mind to look at a guy like him because you're right. Like, his stock, like, could not have possibly been any lower when they acquired him on deadline day, you know, maybe an hour before the deadline passed from Michael Leighton and a third round pick. And, you know, there's something to be said, I think, like you said, for having, you know, too much success too soon. And I think it was, was you that tweeted out the sort of roller coaster chart of his career in terms of even strength,

city percentage. Like, looking at that, like, that's an incredible, incredible chart to seeing how low he was and to where he is now. And like you said, he was really second only to price last year in most of his numbers and actually had a better season all the way through, obviously, than Devin Dubnick. So, you know, he's one of those guys that probably didn't get enough credit for how good he was last year and I think part of that is because he had a couple injuries along the way

and was in and out of the lineup and the Flyers weren't a playoff team but for now like you know to me he's been such an illegal even like look at the start of this year and how he had a couple really tough games to start and like even when you include all those numbers in the general

picture like not even accounting for that terrible start his numbers are still excellent and I think more than anything the work that he did with Jeff Reese there was obviously some stuff involved, but this was really a mental rehabilitation that needed to take place. And Jeff Reese was actually the guy that campaigned for Steve Mason to come here, to come to Philadelphia.

He was a guy that Jeff Reese and Steve Mason both had the same agent. Reese had tracked his career significantly and watched a lot of tapes throughout the years and thought that he was a salvageable goalie and pushed the flyers to make that move. So they did, and then he started to sort of rehab his game mentally, which takes a little bit of time. But, you know, if the athleticism is there and the right frame of mind is there, and you can impart a few technical changes, then you really see, like, the product that he has and the talent that Steve Mason has to carry a team. And the crazy thing is he's probably still not getting, you know, enough credit for how well he's played because Michael Neubert has been equally as good. And it's sort of been a 1A and 1B scenario for the flag. this year. Yeah, and it speaks to what we were saying about how they've been very prudent in the way

they've been spending their money and whatnot because Neuverth was available this summer for peanuts and they got him for really cheap and he's been a really fine acquisition for them. And I don't know, with Mason, it's interesting because it's one of those things where I myself fully admit that I was the one kind of making a lot of jokes at his expense and really not buying him even when he started playing well initially in Philly. I was like, okay, well, you know, this is just like a hot little start for him here, but eventually the other shoe is going to drop. And we're reaching enough of a sample size now where I sort of have to, you know, keep an open mind, as you said, and recalibrate expectations as new information presents itself because this stuff is so fluid. And

there's just so many of those things, as you mentioned, like the, generally it's post hoc, which is kind of, you know, you have to take it for what it's worth. But it's one of those things where like Steve Mason clearly something, whether it's physical or mental changed to result in this performance. And it's stuff that we're not. not necessarily privy to from the outside looking in. So as you learn this stuff, you need to adjust accordingly. And I think I'm trying to do that with Mason. And I understand why some people still are sort of skeptical,

because there is such a long track record there of him not being very good, that it's kind of hard to scrub that from your mind. And it's crazy. I think to me it's another example of how hard goalies are to analyze and kind of explain their worth. and like, to me, like, I'm glad that, like, I'm not the guy that has to sign goalies to contracts, because, like, it's one of those things. Like, it makes you incredibly nervous. Like, you look at a guy like Cam Talbot, like, he just signed his deal, of course, and, you know, it makes a lot of sense from a lot of ways, you know, especially with the way that he's played over the last 10 to 15 games, and that sample size is still crazy small. And even his career total track record, his sample size is really small. But yet he's going to be paid in the middle of the pack,

of NHL goalies for next season and beyond. So it's so incredibly hard to analyze goalies. And it's one of those things. Like I'm looking at it too. Like I just wrote about James Reimer today. And the sample size this year is again incredibly small, but now he's done it. You know, after him, he's been really good again,

935 save percentage there about, you know, one month after sitting on the shelf for a month. So it's one of those things. Like, is this a hot stretch for games rimer? or is this something that we could reasonably expect, you know, not maybe 935, but could his numbers be moving forward significantly better than his career average that he's shown so far? Yeah, that's a fair question. And I guess we'll, the only way we'll find out is after enough time passes

and we'll be able to look back at it and see where we went wrong or where we were right with it. But it's an interesting thing to follow. Let's move on from goalies and talk about a guy who's not even on the flyers anymore, but was once upon a time. and he's someone who I'm sure you interacted with while you were covering the team. That's Vinila Cavalier. And I'm sure he's a man of his word and has principles. And I bring that up because he agreed to retire after this season, regardless of what happened.

But now in six games, he has three goals and four points for the Kings. And he's being heavily featured on their power play. And he's playing in the second line with Jeff Carter and Tanner Pearson. And I don't know, I've been personally enjoying this quite a bit because every time he does something, I love going online and just seeing the reactions from people. and there's been this whole kind of campaign trying to, you know, I guess like Jedi mind trick Vinila Caliier into changing his mind and coming back next season just because it'd be kind of funny to see not only how the Kings handled that, but how the league handled it and kind of the backlash that happened to that. So I don't know, like, do you think there's any possible scenario under any circumstance that he actually does have kind of an epiphany and goes, hmm, maybe I can still keep playing? Because I wouldn't necessarily blame him for it.

I mean, he'd hardly be the first guy to change his mind. It's pretty tough to hang it up after it's the only thing you've really known for the entirety of your life. And I don't know, just like, how do you see the situation playing out with him? Well, it's the first thing I thought it was like he would not be the first guy by any stretch of the imagination to say, yeah, I'm going to retire and then decide, nah, I'd like to keep playing. So it's one of those things. And I called and I sort of badgered his agent Kent Hughes about on the night of the trade saying like, okay, like, was there an document on? like what happens if he decides that he doesn't and I think he doesn't want to retire and I think the irony here is that the Kings at least from what I'm told took him at his word with him saying

I'm going to retire because you can't sign any sort of note saying that you will because that would be circumvention it would nullify the deal so it's one of those things like Dean Lombardi is a really smart guy and he's also a lawyer like I can't imagine they're actually not existing some sort of document. And like the flyers, interestingly enough, are like, you know, they're obviously rooting for him to retire too because he would then come off their books. And if he kept playing, they would have to continue to retain half of that deal

for the next two years. So it's one of those things, too. Like, he's giving up $5.5 million for basically a 43 game shot with the Kings plus whatever happens in the playoffs. Like, that is a ton of coin, even for a guy that's made $125,000. million dollars in his career so how do i see it playing out like he's always remained uh first off he's been extremely classy in the way that he handled it his situation in philly he you know i talked to him a bunch of times he said i'm not going to the rink pissed off i'm not going to you know make my

teammates hate me for for what i'm going through here i'm not going to bring this on them uh he totally kept it to himself and and was professional in his demeanor and with his words and continued to work hard but he always kind of held really firm in his in his belief that that he could do more. And I think from my perspective, just watching the way that the Flyers and their situation played out, like,

for a team that struggled to score goals, like, why were they using Zach Ronaldo in the lineup versus the guy like Vinnie La Cavalier who has more than 400 goals in his career? Like, to me, the fact that he's now finding a home

on a team that many consider to be a Stanley Cup contender, like, what are they seeing that, you know, the Flyers were made? And also, like, is it just a matter of playing style and playing in the West and fit with a team that really isn't all that fast to begin with? You know, they have, the Kings certainly have their top skaters, but by and large, they're a much bigger team that plays heavy, a heavier style.

So does he just sort of fit in with their persona better than the Flyers? But, you know, I'm not sure that anyone would look at the Flyers as necessarily a really fast team either. So it's interesting to see and how do I see it playing out? would imagine that he's just going to take this for what it is. I think you also need to look at his situation with his contracts. Like they always dipped off, even the long-term deal that he had with the lightning that was bought out. They always trailed off toward the end. And this was sort of his sort of targeted retirement age the entire time. And even with his deal that the Kings have on the book now, it also dips off quite a bit. He earned most of it. It was front-loaded.

So, you know, I think he's going to retire and be a man of his word because, you know, that's one of those things like the Kings made it absolutely clear to him. We cannot afford you in any sort of circumstance moving forward after the season. Yeah. Well, and it's worth noting that regardless of whether he retires or keeps playing, he's still going to be receiving his buyout money from the lightning for another handful of years, right? Yeah, I mean, he's made a ton of money in his career. It's not even like an issue for him, but it's still. one of those things, like if he puts up a pretty significant amount of points,

like, how would that even be handled? Like, could he, is, is it possible that he agrees to terminate to deal with the Kings and he goes on unconditional waivers and then clears and is free to then sign with another team? Like, how would the league handle it then, as you

said, is that circumvention? Because the King went into it knowing that they couldn't afford to pay him in their salary cap structure for next season. Like, they're already trying to bring in Milan Lucci teach again for another year. And from what I'm told, they're going to need to move one of their current assets in order to make it work because I think they have 61.5 million committed to 16 players already. And we all know that the cap isn't going to be going up by much, if at all. So that's a lot

of spots to fill out, especially if you're adding a guy like Luchich had a pretty significant cap hit. No, I should point out, I mean, it's mostly tongue-in-cheek. Like, I don't think that Vindulacalvi is going to keep up anything resembling this stretch of play by any means. Like, it's a nice story and it's it's been a fun run so far but it's just tough to reconcile like how he look physically no absolutely absolutely and and beyond the money as you said it's it's one of those things where i mean if he still thinks that he can play and he wants to keep playing and has that desire then it's kind of tough to to tell him he can just because he pinky promised dean lombardy yeah i have a hard time believing like i said that there was no sort of you know wink wink

hush-hush document signed with Dean Lombardi being a lawyer that that he would retire eventually at the end of the season. Okay. Well, let's look ahead for the flyers. And I guess this is a two-part question that kind of ties in hand in hand. But looking at the season standings right now, it's pretty remarkable considering how they started the year and kind of the expectations that were had for this team coming into it that they're right there with the penguins and the devils and a couple of Atlantic

division teams fighting in the wildcard hunt. And I guess they're just approaching it from this point on as everything that happens being gravy because I look at their roster. And it doesn't necessarily look like they have any sort of rental assets that they would have otherwise traded if they were out of the race. And now they're going to keep them and kind of set themselves back misguidedly. And I also don't think that they're necessarily going to be an active buyer, regardless of how well they keep playing by the deadline, just because it seems like they do have a plan and they're thinking ahead for the future. But I guess the second part of that question is now that, they do have some more, I guess, financial flexibility as they've gotten rid of these contracts and has more space on their books opens up over time. Do you think they're going to actually

be, do you think I actually going to stick with this plan? Or do you think that it's going to be the same old thing where they're just going to be tempted to be like a kid in a candy shop where now that they have money to spend, they're going to want to bring in a high price free agent in the years to come? It's a hard thing to answer because like any time that this team has had any sort of money or flexibility, like they could not spend it fast enough. Like, seriously, within weeks, I don't even know if it was weeks, but it probably was within weeks of buying out Danny Breyer's terrible contract, the flyers replaced him with Vineo Cavalier in a situation that really seemed to make no sense.

You know, you were probably based on production, like the two probably would have put up similar numbers the next season, and then, you know, Breyer would have been finished with his deal at that point, I think. So it's one of those things that it's crazy. They've spent it like it's going out of style and, you know, they could end up by the time this is all said and done having $11 or $12 million in salary cap space. They've taken care of a few of their guys like Keturia, as I mentioned already, but they're going to need to pay Braden Shen. Michael Raffle will probably do a small raise and then you look at, you know, do you bring back a guy like Evgeny Medvedev? He's been okay this season. He's had some good stretches and he's also.

had some time where it looks like he struggled to adjust to the smaller rank, and he's, you know, at a pretty hefty $3 million salary cap hits. So what do you do with a guy like Radcoe Gutus? Does he fit in long term based on the number of bodies that you have and the guys you have under contract if he fit in that mix with some of the prospects that you'd like to add for next season? It's crazy to think of, it's still like I'm trying to wrap my brain around the fact that the Flyers are going to have salary caps based in the summer. But, you know, for the deadline, though, I think, you know, it really makes sense, like you said,

to look at this situation as being entirely gravy. Like, at this point, I think today, the Flyers would be in the playoffs based on points percentage since they have, you know, they have a few games in hand on other teams. So it's amazing, though, like, that they're even in that position, like you said, given both their start and the expectation but also like take a look at all of the league statistical categories. Like the Leafs are significantly better than the Flyers in almost every significant category.

Goals, power play, penalty kill, shots forward against, face off. Like go up and down the list and like the Leafs are way ahead of the Flyers in most categories. And yet the Flyers are a team that's right in the mix and a team like the Leafs are, you know, nine or ten points back of even really sniffing it. So, you know, whatever happens. moving forward. I don't see them being a buyer, but like I could see them making a trade, like I said, with a guy like Drew Ann, if they could get him to be a fit for the future, not really based on this year or not impacting this year at all. Yeah. Well, I don't know. It would be an interesting thing to

follow. I've been personally enjoying watching the team quite a bit, and I think that while there's a lot of pieces there to tune in for, the guy that's really stuck out for me as Shane Gosses Bear, where It's one thing that he's been probably like the funnest player to watch at three on three, either him or Johnny Goddrow this year. And on the power play, obviously, with more ice surface to work with, he's just so deadly. But just like, look, watching him at 5 on 5 as the games and kind of as the experience has gone along throughout the year, his ability to jump into passing lanes and really just kind of disrupt what the other team is doing and turn it into offense is sort of unparalleled. Like you see very few guys do that regardless of how long they've been in the league. And he did it against the Rangers over the weekend. and yesterday he did it against the Leafs where he picked off a pass from Morgan Riley, I believe,

and just took it the other way and showed a great deal of skill and scoring a goal. And I don't know, just like I haven't had a chance to watch him live up close yet, but I'm really relishing the opportunity to do that eventually because just sitting at home watching him on TV, it's remarkable what he's able to do out there. I think a lot of it, there's obviously some talent that goes there and then his skating ability is excellent, but there's a lot of it that's mental, I think, too. like the confidence to step into that lane and pick off that path from Morgan Riley and fly through the zone, create a three-on-one now.

He's got an $8 million, you know, a $66 million player in Jake Borchek to his right on this three-on-one and Chonkitturier behind him who has, you know, way more NHL experience and was a prolific score in junior, and he doesn't really even think twice other than to shoot the puck and beat Rimer through his five-hole for that game-time goal, as you said. and he is a treat to watch. And it's one of those things like just seeing that confidence, like it come out is really special because there's a lot of guys that are put into a situation where they have some of the same talent or same skill and don't really have the mental wherewithal to just jump in

and play. It's almost like he does it, you know, innately without thinking. And that's something that you can't even teach. And I think from the Flyers, too, there's been a lot of trust in that regard in terms of letting him just play. like there's obviously going to be mistakes that come with a young player like that. And I think that's the key is like having, you know, the stomach to handle those mistakes in the defensive end to get so much more from it on the front end. And I think that's something that we see a lot too with John Klingberg, actually.

Like he's obviously been a tremendous player in Dallas. And I think it's for him, for Klingberg, if you look at his career path and how he ended up with stars, You know, he shifted around junior teams a lot over in Europe. And from what I'm told, a lot of the reason for that was finding a coaching staff that believed in him and trusted him to play a certain way. And that's something that, you know, Wendy Ruff has obviously harnessed. And, you know, he's sort of tried to, you know, teach as gently as possible to try and not change that mental composition to be able to go for it whenever you want or whenever you see a window or even the, smallest window that most players wouldn't see to jump into the play

and make those plays. So there's really like a trust level that goes on with that and you know to me like if I was voting today like Shane Goss's fair would be in my in my calendar trophy he would be a finalist for me. Yeah no I think that's

fair I think he's definitely right up there I think it's Panarans to lose at this point but he's right there behind that in that next tier and I don't know when I watch him play it's one of those things where I guess this is prospect writers like Corey Pranman, for example, when they grade a guy's hockey sense, I guess that's what comes to mind when I watch Gossesbury where he just has that instinct, as you said, where he jumps that passing lane.

And it's just like he's like he's one step ahead of other guys and he's thinking the game at such a high level that it works perfectly with those physical tools that he has. And that's what makes him so effective. Well, and the fact that skating didn't suffer at all from going through an ACL pair last year and missing 70-some games, I think. he only played six professional games last season to like jump right back in this season and not even miss a beat like it gives you a really good indication of just how you know off the charts his skating ability is like he has these little um like subtle i don't even know how to like explain them

but it's um they're not like they're obviously not head sakes because like he does this thing where he like pivots and and he does it with his hips sort of when he has it yeah and he like sort of turns and turns back and like to see like the fear and like the pause that puts in players like it's hilarious to watch because like there aren't too many people that can do that without even thinking about it and also you know put fear in season professionals as you're doing it so uh it's crazy to watch to see him like jump in like i actually wanted to ask mike babcock about it last night because it was his first time getting to see goss's bear up close you know just a sort of you know thought because I was kind of watching last in the arena. I was watching to see like a guy like

Babcock watching Gossus Bear. To me, like that's like a fascinating thing just to see, you know, his initial impressions and thoughts because he's a guy that hadn't seen him before only on tape. And I think anyone that sees him live, it's sort of like that head-turning moment where you're like, holy crap, this guy is really good. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. All right, Frank, I have one more question for you and then we'll let you go. And there's a reason I save this one until the end. It's because it's the best for loss. It's the most important one. And, and, and, and, and, and, Travis and I've been talking about in this show a lot, and you know since you cover the team and you interacted with them a lot. But there's no doubt in my mind that the Flyers fan base on Twitter is the best one I've come across.

And I guess I want you to sort of talk me off the ledge because as I've been thinking about it, I'm kind of becoming concerned that if the Flyers actually become well run and successful, that sort of trademark snark and cynicism that they have will dissipate over time. So kind of talk me off the ledge and let me know that everything's going to be okay and they're going to be okay. and they're going to remain as fine as they are. Yeah, I don't think you should worry about that at all. Snark and cynicism is like, that's like, I'm pretty sure it's in your DNA when you're born in the Philadelphia region. And like even for people that follow the team that I see like all over Canada that are somehow like grew up being Flyers fans, like they have it.

Like it's like you don't become a Flyers fan unless you have that innate, you know, sort of snark in your vocabulary and in your mind. So yeah, I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. like you should have seen my inbox throughout the years. And I think, you know, the funny thing is, too, like, I don't think Flyers fans get enough credit for being a really smart fan base. Like, they're a team, you know, for all the lunkheads and fans out there that were clamoring for the Flyers to get in on every one of these guys

that we've mentioned throughout the years, there's also been a really strong percentage of the fan base that's been mocking the team and sort of saying, like, when is there going to be a plan? and when is someone going to come in and try and execute a patient process that takes time to unfold, but could really be worthwhile in the end? And I think the benefit for fans that live in Philly that are also NBA fans is that there's like a tangible feel that you can get with this team at the moment, unlike the Sixers, that you can start to see some of those pieces come into place and fall into place.

And, you know, they're able to sort of have the best of both worlds for other team that's somewhat competitive, but you can clearly see the direction that they're going. Yeah. All right, Frank, well, thanks for taking the time to come to show and chat with me. Hopefully, we'll be able to get you back on later, and we can talk about other NHL stuff, not just flyers, but there were a few things that I kind of just wanted to get into an unpack, and I'm glad we got to do it.

Yeah, thanks all for having me. I've been a big fan of the PDO cast, and it's sort of helped me to get my fat ass through some workouts in the gym. Well, I'm glad to hear it, man, and hopefully we'll be able to keep, Keep working on your fitness. We'll talk again soon. Okay, thanks a lot.

The Hockey PDOCast, online at HockeyPedocast.com. Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter at Dim Filipovich and at Travis Yost.