The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 54: Ménage à Pod

Episode Date: January 26, 2016

Jeff Marek and Todd Warriner both hop on the podcast to record not only the first ever in-studio episode in the show's history, but also the first one featuring three people too. We discuss how coaches have needed to adapt over the years, the reason why no one has been able to effectively counteract 'score effects' yet, and how Todd was bestowed with the nickname "One Touch". Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show (www.hockeypdocast.com/donate). There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl Defensive Inn, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and, of course, the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React. R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

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Welcome to the Hockey Pediocast. My name is Dimitri Filipolich. and today we've got a special show for two reasons. One, I think it's the first time since we started the show that we have in-studio guests. An apartment. In apartment guests. And the second thing is, I think it's our first menager pod. It's the first time we've had three people on the show.

I know. It's Dimitri Filipovich, who is your fearless host. It is a Todd Warner and a reasonable hand-drawn facsimile of Darren Millard. So how you doing? What's going on, boys? Well, yeah, what's going on? Well, you know, we're just in town for the, uh, let's get the branding right here, Todd. The Bimo, C-H-L, NHL, top prospects game from Vancouver, no Tyler Benson, lower body injury,

he'll be released by Tyroning. Right. So that's where we're here. And then we got the game in Surrey tomorrow, although you're going to get the Vancouver Canucks game. Yeah, I'm going to do the intermissions on the Canucks game tomorrow night against Nashville, and then we get ready Wednesday, combine testing, all that stuff, and Thursday's the game. Cool. Can we talk a lot about prospects?

Yeah, I know, Travis loves that. Yeah. His co-host, this has zero time. for prospects for the draft I had Jeff on I had Jeff on it was right before the holidays and the world junior tournament

was about to start in you and I previewed it for like an hour and Travis just messages me like what are you doing like you're rooting the integrity of our show your hockey magazine like what I do junior hockey come on dude so let's talk about the NHL and we can do some prospects stuff later just whatever get to Travis

I don't know it didn't really plan any stuff before we started recording. Well, why don't we talk about what we were talking about before? Yeah. We came on here. And that was the Stephen Stamco. Actually, you know, what was an interesting conversation before he came on? We'll get to Stamco's.

Trade requests. Right. I mean, it really is sort of like hockey audio porn now. Yeah. And the way that, you know, no one talks about Pat Marlow anymore. Remember the beginning of the year, Patrick Marlow was a big story. Wow. Patrick Marl.

Yeah. And then it was Travis Amnik. And now we've got, you know, Jonathan Drew Ann is the flavor of the month. Like, it really sort of reinforces, you know, how quick this new cycle is. Yeah. Like, how quickly we've, forgotten that Patrick Marlowe said, I'm going, I want to go to Anaheim, L.A. or the New York Rangers.

Not a peep. Plus he's in San Jose. Plus he's in San Jose, and I feel like that sometimes the California team won't get the press that if that happened in New York. He's kind of like a big. No, it is a big story. No, it is a big story. He's playing really well this year.

He's quite 30 goals. Well, that's just it. Maybe that's the blueprint now. All these guys are thinking, well, if you can make this request, we'll keep around and they play better. And he's one of those guys, too. Like, normally you see guys, I mean, this is a game now where you don't really age gracefully.

Yeah. And that's kind. And especially not his age, but I mean, his caveat has always been skating, you know, going way back to when he played, sorry, Travis,

junior hockey. And he's always just been a great skis. And you're right, he's having another good year for the San Jose sharks. It was a bit of a downswing there last year, but yeah,

just kind of turn around. I mean, the funny thing is he still skates. Like some of his other skills have deteriorated. Maybe he's not as good of a shooter anymore as he once was,

but like, once you watch him skate, it could be like 2005 and it's the same guy. The thing, he's not like, he's like a small guy. He's, he skates so great for a big...

Yeah. Put you on the fire. Okay. You usually say that about small guys. The game sort of changed. Yeah. The rules of it favored the small player, but for him too,

because he was, you know, so fast. Okay, let me ask you this thing. From a forwards point of view, what goes first? The feet, the hands, what goes? What went first for you, Todd Warren? I never had any hands.

You know that. Oh, that's how you introduced. You know, it depends. Like, uh, a guy like Marlow for instance he's so big that you know back in the day even when they could hook and they could hold he could get through like he was heavy enough that he could play it either way right but you know for me you know the knee injuries the ankle all the stuff eventually you lose some speed yeah and the game you know so as I got older and the game got sped up I was going the wrong way you know what I mean so I feel like that but you know because I always heard the hands go first that was always the old saying oh ask all the greats boys the hands go first. You know what? I play men's league. I played men's league now. We're all the same speed. And the guys that had good hands when they're five and when they're 15, they still do.

I don't know about that. I think like, you know, a lot of the levels, everybody comes back to a certain pace at some point. And then the good players are the ones with good hands. Well, I don't know if you want to use like extremes as examples. But like Jerome McGill, for example, like he can barely move around on the ice anymore. I feel like they, like they need like Nathan McKinn to like escort him to his spots. But once he gets the puck, it's still top shell, the same guy. One time or some half well. And he's dying to, I think Jerome's been, a lot of fans don't want to hear this. And I think a lot of coaches probably don't want to hear this as well. But Jerome's been really good at, it's going to sound weird, not playing 82 games, but playing 82 games. Right. Like, he'll suit up for 82 games, but how many games is he really going to play?

Like, whether it's like the game itself, I know it's like, say stuff like that's true, right? Like, hang on, it's an 82 game season. Like, is it real? Here's a question for it. Is it realistic to expect the play? player to give 100% 82 times a year. The best players that I've ever watched paste themselves the best. I mean, it's very true.

Like, we talk about the Mew on the way in. The Mew was so good at that. Like, he, you know, he'd watch him. He'd come back to the red line and wait for the power play to come up to him again. Like, he would hardly skate. Right. Harley skate. But that doesn't mean he's not a great player.

And when the chips were down, you wouldn't want him out there. Yeah. It's just, you know, you know, you have to be able to conserve some energy, take care of your body, especially as you get older. I think Gindwell probably does as good as any. but he picks his spots and he gets his shot off and gets his goal. It's almost as if, like, can you not imagine this conversation happening, like, let's say in Calgary. Jerome again, like going up to Daryl Sutter and at the beginning of the season and say, look.

I need a couple days out. I'm going to give you 35 good games. I'm going to give you 35 games where I'm not going to be there. And the other 12 will just see how I feel. Yeah, but I'll get 30 goals. But I'll score 30 goals. At the end of the year, I'll score 30 goals and every now and then I might win the rocker was hard. You know what?

It seems so sacrilegious because of this whole like intangibles, culture of hockey, right? Where it's like all these guys. They're playing 110% like you've got to give it your all. But in basketball we're seeing with like the San Antonio Spurs, for example, how they've sort of prolonged this run with these certain guys like Duncan and Genoblee and these guys that they have because they don't play them 82 games a year, right? Like it seems unrealistic to play that, right?

I think we're getting to that. Well, I think we're at that point now in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, the NHO with the speed of the game right now. Like, is it realistic? Even now more so than ever the way these bodies burn. Can you expect the way guys are going to get, like, I don't know, I think we're seeing the end of the 35 plus hockey player. Maybe even one of the 30 plus hockey player. Like, can you expect players to burn that hard?

Like, can that candle burn that bright 82 times a year? Like, realistically. Like, I know our ex-to-your-point to me, you're like, our expectations are like, leave it all on the ice, you know, be exhausted at the end of it. Play every shift, finish every shift. It's hard. It's a long season. Like, look at the Pacific Division or whatever in the American League now. Like, you know, the development, player development model, you go to the minors 20 years ago.

You get on the bus. You can be gone for 10 games over 13 days and eating pizza and not getting any sleep. Like, that's not really how you want your prospects to develop. So a lot of these teams are buying into it too. Play less games. Yeah. Get in the weight room. Yeah.

Take care of them. Like, all these kids know how to, you know, take care of their bodies now. Yeah. I mean, if you have, if you have, like, three games and four nights and it's on the road, just send the guys home for, like, the last game and just, you know, conserve it that way. And obviously, I mean, there's like, you know, hardworking fans of the game, the average Joe that pays $80 for a ticket. He wants to see the star.

That's where it's tricky, right? But at the same time, like, overall, as a fan of this part, you kind of, it's for the greater good, right? Like, you take some, you lose some battles, but you're in the war. I don't know. I agree with you, but if you're a fan, you're looking at you said, well, hang on, second, why is this guy looking in the envelope and mailing it in? Yeah.

Like, I paid a lot of mine. I've been waiting for this game for two and a half a month. I've got my five-year-old son here is crying. It's all the rest, especially in the Western Converse. The way you can say the Western Conference, they played with pace and speed for as long as I can remember. Like, it's been a different game coming up West. And then you travel more. So, like, I can remember when I played here, it's like, you never practiced.

The second half of the year, you never practiced. So you can be prospects that are in the minors, you've got to look after them, teach them how to play. Well, you know what, look at Dallas, for example. Like, I'm convinced, like, the main reason why they're spending $10 million on goaltenders is because of the travel. Yeah. It's because we've seen Dallas Netminers. And I know Lettnan hasn't exactly. been Mr. Workout.

But I mean, you've seen him really fall off. And I'm convinced, like, one of the reasons of the team and said, if we have a shot, you know, we need to be, you know, we can't be tired down the stretch.

Like, we can't just, we can't lose like five of six down the stretch and cost a playoff spot. So much of it's... Because they're travel, maybe the worst. Recovery.

They're the worst in the NHL, Dallas? I think it is Dallas. Like Nashville is pretty up there too. I think it's Detroit. It used to be Detroit. It used to be Detroit. It used to be Detroit. Yeah.

It was brutal for Detroit. Right. And that's why they were promised to go. Actually, Chicago, maybe. Yeah. Well, I think Detroit was actually, or even now, they were kind of, I think they came to a year of viewing it like, okay, we have two goalies here that can be number ones, and we're going to keep both of them rather than trading one in the way.

And Razik's just played so well that they don't really have a chance of play out. Has she been, like, the quietest great story in the NHL? Like, I was looking, even this afternoon, I was looking at Mercad stats, and I'm just like marveling at Peter Marzik. I'm just like, and consistent, like, every time Nick puts another one up, I'm just like, oh, yeah, Marzik. Number one. And on Saturday I was watching the game against the Ducks where they lost like four two or four three, I think.

And all four goals were like right in front of the net where there's three Detroit defenders just like kind of enjoying the show. Right. And it's like Jimmy Howard's first game in three weeks. Speaking of Detroit, they just scored even. We're watching a house. Just an outlawfulgator. One of your favorite contracts. No, like Howard first game in like three weeks, right?

Finally he gets his opportunity to show that he can still play. And it's like, oh, come on, guys. Like, help me out a little bit here and then everyone's burying him. But, you know, I really wanted, I always wanted that guy to do well. Because the Jimmy Howard story is an interesting one. And I don't think it's, a lot of it is his own fault. So I kind of like congratulating someone for cleaning up their own mess. But I mean, he was like, when he started in the NHL is, like, horribly out of shape.

Yeah. And maybe he's just one of those guys that, for whatever reason, like some guys can, you know, just thought, can get it right away. And, like, they work out a couple of times. And all of a sudden, you light matches off their abs. But it took him a while to get there. Like, that guy worked his balls off. Yeah.

To get to that. spot and now he gets there, he gets his payday, and here comes Peter Marazek, who, you know, the last visual a lot of people have of him is bouncing off the glass in Ottawa at the World Junior's for the Czech Republic as they beat Russia. Right, right. Who's been flat out out. That may be the quietest great story in the NHRA. Yeah, there's like a 930% is right there behind Hopi and Crawford.

Not a peep. Yeah. Not a peep. Well, and the fascinating thing they now face is so Howard's under contract for, I think, two or three more years for pretty good money. It's like over $5 million. And Marzick's an RFA, right? And they can't possibly keep both.

Like they're already up against them. cap. So I'm always reluctant to give a goal. And Edminton's signed Camtalbis so that closes that door. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that's a good one. Well, I mean, Calgary has both of their guys coming up. Yeah. Calgary would be an interest. But so the thing with Razak, and you can speak to this more because you follow the OHL pretty closely, but he's one of those guys where I'm always reluctant to reward a goalie after like one or two good years with a big deal because you just, there's so much volatility with the position, but pretty much wherever this guy's played,

whether it's the OHL or the HL, he's been one of the best goals in the league, right? And He's been really good. Eventually, you just buy in. Ottawa, right? I have a question, yeah, 67's, yeah. Brian Coler is old team, your favorite. We'll see him on Thursday. Here's my question about goaltenders.

It may be the toughest position to get a read on when it comes to it. Sorry, Travis, the draft. Right. Like, that's why now this is the domain of the second round. And it's funny, too, because once one team bites on a goalie, every bit, there's a run on goaltenders, right? Detroit scores again, by the way. So then there's a run on goaltenders.

And it's the one position that general managers consistently miss on. Like all the time they miss on. That is a truism in the NHL. So why is it the GMs that vote on the VESA? The one group of people who consistently miss on goaltenders, by their own admission, are the guys that vote on the VESA. Well, they know what not to look for. They know what not to look for.

So they go out of their way, right? Well, the positions change the most. Yeah. It's hard to predict now. Like, now they're going big and then you've gone better. there, right? You never left your feet in 20 years ago. You wanted everybody to stand up and yeah, you know, the positions changed the most. Yeah, you know, I had an interesting conversation this afternoon with someone about Peckereney. Right. Now, here we are in Vancouver

and tomorrow the Vancouver Canucks face off against Nashville. Right. Had an interesting conversation there about someone about Peckerman. So I'm trying to figure out like, what happened. Yeah. Like, why has he, he's an awful season. Yeah. It's had a really bad season. And the theory that was put forth to me today and see what you guys are at on this one. It makes some sense to me, specifically when he comes to the goalies that come in cold. When Peter Lavillette to go over the Nashville Predators, they were just content to trade chances, Nashville and whomever. Like, let's do it.

And it gave, you know, and then Renee was in the Vesna trophy talk in consideration for the Vesna. But that's because he had a good chance to feel a lot of pucks and get into the game. He's one of those goaltenders that needs that. Right. But now Nashville is like defensively so sound, right? You look at, I think is that home still number one, a shot suppression?

Yeah, probably. And like Barrett Jackman. Right. And Jackman's having a, right. Out of nowhere, Barrett Jackman all of a sudden. Former Calder winner. Right?

Beaterham. Beenhamenrysetterberg for the Caldham. And shot suppression. Yeah, yeah. Shot suppression. Really? Very. We're going to talk about,

though. Todd and I had an interesting conversation about analysts. Yeah. Anyway. Anyway, but the theory that was put forward to me was that he's a goal tender that needs the puck a lot. Right. And because he's not getting a lot of action,

he's not making a save. that that's why Pecoranese numbers are down because Nashville doesn't trade chances anymore. Like it takes a lot to get a shot on net with Nashville, and that's why Pecoraneda is suffering. That was put forward to me today. Didn't they have a similar team last year where he was really good? Well, that's it. Last year they were training chances.

Oh, you think? Yeah. I don't know if the numbers actually reflect that. I'm just passing. I threw it on the table. Yeah, that's interesting. Because I don't have an explanation for it. If I were a goalie, I'd want to have more shots.

Like, I guess that's what warm up is for. But still, I think if you get standing around too long, and I don't know, how old is René now? How old is René now? He's got to be approaching Thuring. At some point, like, you know, is the volume really necessary? You just have to get your, it's a mental thing. You have to be prepared for less or more. But that is an interesting theory.

Talk to goalies about that. And then some of them like it. Some of them don't care if they get to see a shot. Well, it's like, you know, Carolina always warms up. You know, the course of the first 10 minutes of every game. The other team's goal tenter looks great and is getting a feel up for. a puck. But let me ask you this, Todd.

Okay, let's say it's a second period and you're playing against the Islanders and Yaroslav Halak gets injured and the backup goaltender comes in. Do you, do you know, everyone always says, oh yeah, take a lot of shots, volume shooting, does that make more sense? Or you say to yourself, hang on, this guy's cold. Let's go east west. Let's not let him warm up on the puck here. Right.

Let's keep them standing. The thing was to get, you know, let's test them. Let's get in there see if he's ready. But, you know, I hear you. I guess, see, this is where you're... Like, what's the point of throwing in a pillow is, right? I don't know. Yeah, like, if we're going to just dump it in and let him feel it, then that's probably not smart.

But, yeah, quality of chance. I mean, yeah, I don't know. You'd have to talk to a goalie, but I would think if you go in cold, any kind of movement. Don't want to move, man. Right. Because it's not like, in the old days, like, I'm going to date myself here, but I remember when there was a goalie change, like, out came a bucket of puck. And we all stood around. I got, well, the guy got him.

then coaches are using this like quasi-time-out. Watch the first injury. I think it's one of those things where it's just like, it's on a case-by-case basis and it's usually used like post hoc where it's convenient, right? It's like, oh, this guy, like, I just couldn't get into the game, you know. I didn't feel the puck's early and often, but then like the other way, it's like whatever is convenient, right? So I wasn't getting my touches. I don't know.

I don't think there's any definitive thing and I'm not, I'm not a goalie by any means. I don't know. I just, I'm, I played a goal until I was, here's my little story. I think it's just confidence. You think so? It has to be anything else. You know what? The goal is...

But where do you confer? You get confidence from feeling the puck a lot? Okay. Or having success on the way? I'm sticking to it. I'm just like... Wouldn't you feel super confident

when you haven't had to do anything for a while? You're like, yeah, watch my team killing it on the other end. Yeah, this is fantastic. Then, you know, two on ones, one time and then all of a sudden the red lights going off. Yeah. Like, oh, okay.

So, okay, one shot, one goal. Okay, I'm not feeling so confident here. Yeah. I don't know. I'd want a lot of time. I'd want to feel the puck. I'd want it off my... the pillows, you get me going down low, a little butterfly.

Hey, I'm feeling good. I'm in the game. Well, all I can relate to is when you sit on the bench too long, like, let's say, like, remember, I didn't play a lot, some games, like, there'd be half a period. I don't know what you're going to shift. And then I'd go in and ride the bike. Like, I would ride the bike. Sometimes they'd take the pedals off, and I put the bars from the pedals

in between my skates and ride the bike. Yeah. Between periods. And guys did that all, Ken Baumgarner told me that. So if you're not playing, I mean, I don't know, I can't speak for goalies, but I think it's more psychological with boys. I would say all the goalies I played with, if they're not feeling confident and they're not, you know, maybe feeling the puck enough, then that's part. And that's, and that's what makes the goalie so unpredictable, right?

It is such like a mental thing where you never really know until after the fact. It's like they're all so different, right? But when you have to skate, then you need to stay warm. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. All right. Todd Warner's story, number one.

You mentioned Kemmarn Gardner. You want to go for it? You want to tell the Baumgartner's play with the sticks? First of all, I love this guy, Ken Baumgartner. Smart dude, too, eh? So bright. So intelligent. He used to have conversation with Bomber, and without fail, every other sentence was a word I'd never heard.

But Bomber was pretty meticulous about its craft, and we know how Bomber played. So he'd come in, I'd get to the rink at 5 o'clock for a 7.30 game, and without fail, bomber would have his four, Victoriaville, old school wooden sticks, all taped up, all perfect, right in the rack. First guy, you'd be there at 3 o'clock some days. Nobody else would come to 5. so so Dougie Dougie Gilmore was always up to something he'd come in and he'd take one of Bomber's sticks off the rack

and he put it down on the trainer's table in the middle of the room and he'd sign it right right so everybody as they roll up in for the game they think well that's an autograph stick well I'll put our name on there right it turns out of that would be Bombers game stick right Bomber and you don't want anyone to touch a stick right

Dougie yours doggy you know and then we get dressed and every game every game every home game at the old Maple Leaf Gardens that old on the old tile flooring Be out there stick handling on the tile floor on the tile floor with a tennis ball. You see kids do that all the time now, but this is, you know, in the early 90s. So we'd be getting dressed in the room and all of a sudden, Thud, Thud, you hear this noise off the wall.

And that's Bomber, warming up his hands. And we'd always think, well, bomber, you're going to have the fuck for about three seconds. What are you so worried about? Right. And so he'd tease him about it. He said, I'm just working on my stick handle, you know. So he'd be out there for a half hour before every home game. You'd get there three hours before the game.

Right. Sure. Yeah. And he'd be working on his hands. Is that like Mark Bergeron? I always got to be prepared. Like, Burgeman had some of the stories of him.

Like when he played, like he'd be on the bike with like snorkel and flippers at the game. He'd go, what do you do? It's all got to be prepared. You never know. Anything going to happen. Always got to be prepared.

Burge is always up to stop. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, the bomber was great, but he, he, uh, he wouldn't think it,

but he worked at his, his crap and he'd sit down. And we'd call up, like, I remember Ken Blanchee got called up or, you know, another tough guy got called up. And they'd have,

like the little powwow in the corner and Bomber knew all the players. Like he knew guys, he knew this guy played this guy's from Saskatoon, he had 300 minutes last night he knew. Left hand, it's 6, 3, he'd go over with all the guys. Who do you like? So he'd line them all up. He was like, he'd orchestrating the fights. It was awesome.

You know what that does underscore though too? Here's one thing that that's always been a plank for me. Like I've always believed that hockey's the sport where you have to be so freaking good just to be shit. Yeah. Like just to be like players, 750 in the NHL, you have to be so good. I remember playing a game once.

Especially now. Especially now. But, you know, I was playing a game. We used to be this game in my local rank in McCormick in the West End of Toronto. And you're like, I never really played, like, outside of playing goal until I was 16, at any sort of high level of hockey. But I played with, I cut onto this game for a bunch of years with a bunch of guys that played in the coast, played a bunch of guys in Germany.

And one time, actually, Camilleri came out to a couple of the games. But one time Pete Sarno was out there. Did you guys remember Pete Sarno? Remember Pete Sarno? Oh, did you play Sarno play like Syracuse? Like Hartigan and Motsko. Windsor Spitfire. Led the H.L.

I think with Manitoba. He was good. Yeah. Oh, little guy. Little guy and great hands and wheels. And no one could do anything against him. Like you couldn't get the puck off him. You couldn't lift his stick.

You couldn't get body. Nothing. I remember sitting there on the bench. I'm watching this. And I'm like, this is the best player I've ever shared the ice with in my life. And he's never going to get a sniff in the NH&A. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, how good do you have to be to play in that game? Well, my favorite little nugget is Tom Sistito and Jared Bull absolutely dominated the OHL, and obviously I think they were both over-aiders. Plymouth Whalers. Tom Sistito, 40 goals, and then you watch them in the NHL, and you're like, I know, I know. I'll say this, like, you know, in my time, or at least early in my NHL career, there was a lot of guys that sort of, you know, had this image in their career

crafted this sort of persona in their career and they hung in for a long time. A lot of them weren't great skaters. Some guys were like face-off guys. Some guys were shot blockers. There was a different time. I went to Europe and I played against a lot of guys who maybe played it, you know, three weeks in the NHL. Right. Career minor years.

Old I H.L guys. And there were some really good players over there. Yeah. So as the game changed and I went over to Europe, I thought, look at this guy. You know, I've never heard of them, but he's a hell of a player. You know, like, so, yeah, like now, though, you don't miss. Like those guys can go back and forth, like even like the Glen Metropolites of the world and players that went back and forth. Like it was, once you went to Europe, you were done.

So there were some 30-something old IHL guys over there playing when I first got there that were really good players. That's got to be, for a lot of those guys, like I think of Darren Haydard, Eric Westrow. Brett Sterling. Brett Sterling's had a great one Chicago, right? Kirby Law would have been another one. Like guys that were... Would be playing now if they were younger. Or the idea is like too good for the American League

but not yet good enough for the NHL because the first they had to play. God, that's got to be frustrated. And the rules though, all those smaller guys, I always like in a guy like Steve Sullivan for him, but he had a good NHL career. Brian Wiseman is a guy.

I played Junior B with and Chatham. And he was one of the all-time league scores at Michigan. He was 5-9, 180 pounds. And he played about a week and a half in Toronto with me. is all he ever got 100 points like five times in the eye and they had a concussion had to retire but a guy like that like you know this is a guy if he'd gone to europe and stayed healthy you know he might still be playing you know like yeah so there's there's so many of those guys like in the in the 90s that i that didn't get a chance in the nchel should have maybe but the game was

different the game was different you know there was a lot of older players who took spots and forged a career for different reasons and there was a lots of skill that you never knew of you know Who leads the KHL in goal scoring? Of all time? No, right now. Justin Acevedo. Yes. Justin Acevedo does?

Really? Yeah. You know who else? It's right up there? Nigel Dawes. And for like the past three or four years, he's been like an elite goal scoring. He's been an old-eachan of the KHO. Ossevedo is a good example.

He's a little guy. He doesn't skate real one, but he's a heck of a player. He's a heck of a player. I thought Nigel does going to be can't miss in the NHL. And, okay, here's something, here's something that I found really strange, although this is a real sort of thumbs up to scouts around the NHL. We're going to talk about prospects, turn it off tracks. Oh.

You guys remember the show Making the Cut? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Making the cut, right? So, for those that made up, it was during the Lockout of 2005 and CBC in association with Bell put together the show where the basic concept was, there are some good hockey players out there that may have slipped through the cracks. and this is their chance to get back into the game.

Now, the radio station that I was working for, we did a promotion. I was doing a hockey show called Leafs Lunch with Bill Waters. And we did a promotion with the group from Bell and CBC. And we put together a bunch of guys that went and tried. Mike Rice. You know Mike Rice in the OHL? Rice tried to make a comeback.

Yeah, yeah. So we put together like four or five guys. So all had like decent OHL careers. But for every reason, never caught on. And so I went and did it as well. Kevin McGuire was my honest instructor. Peter Zuzzle. the late great, was a friend of mine.

Was that guy that cut me in. Oh, he loved doing it. He came in right away with the sheet. First name. Merrick. Merrick. Oh, it's awesome. But Nick Stajdahar was on the ice with me.

I'm like, is that my stash to hear? Holy smokes. But remember when that happened, I got so many phone calls from scouts around the NHL that were pissed off at the concept of the show. Because essentially the concept of the show is you guys are doing your job. You guys aren't identifying. Here's a you missed. Exactly. That's the concept.

Here's who you missed. Right. Did anyone else find a remarkable? And because a lot of scouts really got, were pretty chuffed about this and got peacock about it. Right. None of those players made it. They did this big cattle crawl.

And for all those guys, and they all had shots and they went to the American League and had their chance. Right. Not one guy. Like this is a really, really well-scouted league. But is it sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy where you constantly see guys that were drafted with pedigree or drafted early on or having catmiss prospects since they were 16 years old

are given so many chances. Like the Kenne Barker's the world where his play never warranted it, but like five or six teams were like, well, he went in the top five. Yeah, when you're that high, you get a lot of breaks. The old saying is still true, what's the old saying? A small hockey player has to prove that he can play

and a big hockey player has to prove that he can't. Right. That's still, in a lot of ways. Yeah, you invest so much in the high prospects as well that it's in their best interest to give them. full opportunity to do it, but I'm not sure it's changed. I'm not sure it's any more than it was before, though. Don't forget GMs are still in love with the reclamation pride.

There's still a GM's arrogance. Like, oh, yeah, well, you know what? Minnesota couldn't do anything with them, but wait till we get them in our program. There's still that there. Well, which is all amazed, the guys like Brendan Gormley and David Rundblad weren't picked up by anyone, right? Like, those guys went super high in the draft and have shown potential over early in their career. And Arizona, right?

Yeah. And I thought Gormley coming out of June was going to be good. Man, I've missed on a lot. Well, he looked amazing. For Team Canada, I remember as best players in the ice. Yeah. No, I know. And Morocco, like, he's, I thought he's going to be a little good.

It just goes to you. Like, there are so many things that could possibly, even just on your, on your, like, when you look back to your career at Todd, like, are there benchmarks that you look at and you say, you know what? It was one way or the other. Like, I look at it, even in my career. Like, if I would have made this choice instead of that choice. Like, you know, like, when I left CBC, like, I was either going to TSN or sports,

and it was back and forth with the contract off and stuff. And then ultimately, I, um, and then ultimately, I, I ended up going to Sportsnet. A lot of that was because of Scott Moore and my allegiance to him. And then I think to myself, like, well, if I would have gone to TSN and then Rogers gets the 12-year-M-H-L-Caunt, like, there's just some things that along the way, it causes you. Well, if you're with TSN, is T.S.N. Is T.S.N. Oh, yeah.

They're America away from getting there. Merrick swung-man. Oh, yeah. I'm sure that's what everyone's clamoring for. So many. Considering today's news, I may be knocking on the door again soon. Yeah. You know, there's so, yeah, there's so many, like, um, most of the most of them. of them as a player, they're out of your control, obviously.

But there's some things. You know, I had a no trade clause in junior. And you waited to go to Kitchener, right? And I said, no, I'm going to, I got traded while I was at the World Junior Camp. And I got home and I said, no, I'm going to honor it. I'll go. Right. And they were in fifth and Windsor was an eighth.

Like there was, you know, every first and second place team. And it made an offer. I could have waited and got to like a team that was building to win. So I did it. And I had the best time. You've met my billets. Oh, yeah. I was my song friends.

So, yeah. I'm glad I did that. And then I got, you know, I got traded out of Quebec. That was sort of, you know, a turning point for me to come to Toronto and, you know, had you traded for Wendell Clark, right? Yeah, right. Yes, Jeff, I was. So, you know, being part of that deal, you know, it changed my life.

Right. You know, being part of that, that's one of the biggest trades in H.O. history. You ever be a train about that? Talk about that trade? Yeah. Sherry's got a great line. I'm sure Charry's got, this is the story.

but Sherry's got, this is the Sundeen Clark slash Warner trade in the Fave and part of that Garth pitcher. Who else was in that deal? Landed Wilson was the other. Landed Wilson the big tough kid at the first round. Oh, that's right. So Sherry's doing the trade on behalf of Quebec, right? On behalf of Pierre La Cois, right? So Sherry calls Cliff Ledger.

And I think the whole thing started as a trade with Solvian Lefev. I think because Quebec wanted French Canadian defense. advanceman, Lefebvre was going to be the guy. And then it sort of blossomed into this. That's how trades used to happen. You'd start with one guy. Next thing you know, it's an eight-player deal. Right.

And so Sherry says, you know, so now we start talking about centermen, and we've got Sackick, and we've got Forsberg. What are you going to do with Sedeen? Do you have Kamenski? And Sherry says he brought up the name, the name Wendell Clark. And he said, the other end of the phone, he said, Cliff Fletcher was really quiet. and he said,

Sherry, if we're going to do this deal, you have to make me one promise. And Sherry says, what's that? He goes, can you put me in the trade too? Because if I effing trade Wendell Clark, I'm going to be run out of this down. Can you please put me in the deal? And then there's conflicting reports

about who did that trip. Wasn't it, Bill Waters was involved with some way, and then there was other guys. Bill was Cliff Letcher's story about how that went down. Bill was Cliffletcher's right-hand man. So they sort of worked in tandem. And I'll build it all the, well, you know,

build it all the contracts too for everybody. But, I mean, that was a whopper. But you're right. There is that sort of, it's always interesting to hear the two general managers discuss Genesis of Trade, right? And how, well, look at the Eric Lindrae situation, right? And that was. The Rangers were in on that.

Well, Neil Smith was in, and he was offering, like, a ton. Maybe even more than the Philadelphia. Well, that was like, they reneged on the, wasn't, wasn't it? Well, originally they had it, as it alleged, again, I don't know, The arbitrator Larry Matusie ruled that it was Philadelphia, obviously, and they got Eric. But that was why they initiated the trade call. You know that story? Yeah.

The trade call, like, that's how they started the trade call because they had these two competing offers. They had to go to an arbitrator, figure out if you had them. And so. Tax machine didn't work. All of a sudden, that's the old Maple Leafs. So all of a sudden, you know, they need to have like an objective way of doing it. So now the way trades work is there's a number of the general managers have to call in. So the one side calls in.

says their side says the trade. And if the other side calls and they say the trade and they have a match, then you have a trade. Like, that's the way it's done. And it's all because of the Eric Lindrauss situation. But as the story goes, when they started the trade call, remember Ron Karan and the St. Louis, he talked like this, all traditional French can a d'I, that guy? So what the GMs in the NHL would do once they got this number, because these guys are goofs, they'd go out and whenever they get a few drinks in them, they call the trade line

and pretend to be Ron Karan. Hey, just Ron Karan, St. Louis, I trade the breath. Oh, and now I'm going to... So I guess Gary had to vent you're like, guys, can you just stop with the Ron Karan impressions on the trade line, please? That's awesome. Or Brian Murray.

Oh, Brian Murray. I've heard that story, too. Yeah, I forget how I know that. Yeah. Yeah, that too. I always wonder if these guys have like a, like a now in 2016, if they have like a group thread on their iPhones or something like that or on their Blackberries, right?

It's like, there's a story of how Mike Gillis, for example, when he was shopping, Dale Weiss a few years ago. He sent out a mass email to all 29 other GMs being like, who wants to take this guy off my hands, right? Players have it. I remember during the lockout, I was out one night with one of the guys in the Players Association with one specific NHL team. And they have like a group, they have a group email weighing in on the, like, the CBA issues. Right. And sort of taking sort of, you know, little sort of votes sort of amongst the guys and the one sort of team rep sort of starts the email and all the other guys respond so they have those groups and those can get kind of salty.

Steve saves a lot of phone calls. Okay. I do have a couple of topics I want us to head up. Oh, okay. First one. We've got to give more Warner stories too. Yeah. We've got to get the one touch story in.

Come on, we've got to get the one touch story in. Go ahead. Let's say that's the end of the show. End of the show. The coach's challenge. Yeah. You and I talked about this a while back. What's the solution here?

For offside? I think for offside especially. I mean, goal interference is also really starting to push the boundaries, right? I think you and I talk about that. We talked about this lot. It's still, like, goal interference, regardless of whether you have video review or not, it's still a subjective call. Right.

But I mean, the off-side is it just like. Or not? Like, some guys will say yes, some guys won't. I flip, I say this because I flip over to a game, and I tweeted out and you retweeted it where Charlie Coil makes his great play to score a goal. And then I turn it over to watch something else. I flip back to it like 10 minutes later. And they're still showing the same thing.

And like the telestrator, like the guys calling the game are like drawing arrows and like to put their puck how it's like gliding on the ice. It's just like it's like some like physics problem going on. I'm just like this this shouldn't be a thing. Like first of all, it's a nice goal and the NHL desperately needs those. So probably we should just let it go anyways. But like in Taoism, it's referred to as two things, you know, like the shady side of a mountain and the sunny side of a mountain. These things arise mutually. Yeah.

And I think that's what's happened because and again, I'll say, I keep saying it every time I'm near a micro-remoner. before and we talk about this damn you matt de chained because if matt de chain doesn't score that goal i'm not agreed right no one really cares then we're not even having this conversation and it's not part of it because someone in the nchl said we need to create a rule so that doesn't happen again but what mutually arises with that well the little sliver of ice and the puck like how close are we going to shave it down now for for off sides and when the puck's on edge it's like oh but if you tilt it Listen, I might be in the minority here. Yeah.

But I kind of like a lot of gray area in my game. I kind of like the human element. I don't expect to see it. That's because you're not a fan of any teams. Fair enough. If your team loses because of that. That's a great. Lose your mind.

That's an excellent point. Especially in the playoffs. I don't have skin in it. You're right. You're 100% right because I'm like, oh, well, the team offside. What's a big deal? Well, if I'm emotionally invested in the flyers and they just got, you know, screwed because of the call. And you had Snyder and you're calling up your area and you're screaming.

You're not paying the $50,000. I don't think it's going away. I think they have to just give them better material. Yeah. Well, I know. It's such a joke. You're on these little tablets. I know.

Okay, but the bigger issue is, I'm like, we keep talking about how this is, you know, a fast game and a flow game and it keeps moving. That's part of the excitement. This is a stop and start game now. Yeah. Like, we keep comparing it to football. Like, oh, it's what they do in football. Well, part of the lure of hockey is it's not a stop and start game like football.

Right. Right. I hate the football example. That's why they have to have better. They have to be able to. see it clearly right away and the, you know, the NHL office has to have more cameras or whatever they do. They can't wait, like you said, we'd flip to the other game, watch the end of the period.

Come back. It's still on? Charlie Coil sitting on the best. No, I can't happen. I agree. You got 90 seconds, make a decision, get out of there, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. To me, the solution is, you know, what, you just have to deal with some goals that

are offside. And you just say, you know what, this game is hard to officiate. I don't expect to see a perfect hockey player, so I don't expect a perfect referee. Now, good luck selling that now, because I think the barn door. It's not going away. The barn door is open. But that's the thing. It's like, you know, Rule 48 begets this and begets this and begets this.

And the Matt DeShane offside call because we had to fix it, although it's happened how many times in the history of the NHL? You can count it on one hand. It's like that American League game when the guy went to dump it in off the glass and there was two guys in the zone. And it was a, it was a. Oh, the series of Marley's a year. Yeah. Game winning goal. Yeah.

Won the series. Walk off. Walk off. Dump in off the glass. That's very good about that. I'm all forgetting the call, right. and they just need to kind of iron out. And they just started, right?

I'm sure that by next. I'm kind of a... I don't know. Yeah. I'm kind of just like, if you get the call close enough, I'm fine. It's like a second base slide to me. If you're in the area,

I'm okay with it. But I mean, I'm someone that would listen to a conversation about getting rid of off sides altogether. What about the goaltenders? I think you should be able to play the puck? Oh, in what sense? Like outside the Travisway?

I think goalie should be able to play the puck wherever they want. I do too. I think you should be able to... And you know, That can lead to, and we've seen this countless times with Mike Smith. That can turn into scoring chances. That can make the year pretty exciting. Especially now that these goalies coming in haven't been used to it.

At least the scoring guys in both ways, right? Yeah, and now. Go back and forth every four or five years. I mean, once in a part of time, that was because of the two Marties, they put it in, right? It was Berto and Turco. I can remember going into New Jersey with Tampa, 2000. It would have been, and we had nine shots. Sounds like a gym.

Who's your coach, Dudley? That was torts then. Would you be screaming at you to get to double digits for shots? Get that single digit off? Just getting through the neutral zone in New Jersey was a victory in itself. Then you're dumping in, and then you run the gauntlet through can opener, cross-check, slash hook, whatever, and then Marty would be over in the corner, toe dragging, shoot out in the newspaper. Like, well, how are we going to get the hook back?

It was a nightmare. Nine shots would be his 5-0. That's amazing. I no idea you were coached by torts. Do you have any good torts stories? I love torts. You love torts? I do. I did. And all the guys that played in Tampa do, too. Do I have any good torts stories? Oh, my God. So many. Oh, he was, you know what? I said this to you before.

When I got to Tampa, I'd come from Toronto. Pat Quinn run Toronto, Maple Leaf team. And it was a little chaotic. There was guys, we'd call up guys every week. And Pat was one of these guys. Once you picked his team, it was his team. Lonnie Bohannis was his only call up one year. Right. And so we, you know, I went to Tampa, it was just, it was just a dysfunctional. They didn't really know what it should look like. Right. Staff, you know, everybody was a little bit out to lunch.

Yeah. So, so when Torch took over, he'd been with Buffalo, he'd been with the rain. He knew, you know, what should look like. Put a system in place. So we were ready for him. We were like, yeah, let's get this going here a little bit, right? And so he made people accountable. You know how he is. He's straightforward. I liked him. Like, he was honest about every day. And he didn't forget. I always. say that, say that to Jeff, like, he'd say to, hey, you know, you do these three things for me the next couple weeks, and I'll remind you. And he wouldn't forget. You'd come back and say, hey, that was good. Keep that, keep this, you know, keep doing this. Right. Anybody. Didn't matter. And I, you know, and guys would fight. I would say this, like, you know, I've seen him meet the guy at the door after a fight, you know, and they say what you want about fighting, but I like a coach that does that. Right. You know, like that, and the guys

go, yeah, that's good for him at the bench. Me at the door. And he comes to, comes off from his fight, hey, good job. Really? You know, like that's, you know, towards this whole persona has taken a life of its own a little bit. Right. I think he'd probably, you know, look back on it and maybe tone it down a little bit. But when I had him, I liked him and everybody in Tampa that won with him says the same

thing. And there's a reason he got to Columbus, Freddie Modine. I don't know if you know. Freddie Modeme was big in bringing him in. He's like, this guy could win. You changed the whole mindset of this team. You know, all those guys in Buffalo, he's an assistant, love them too. Now, it's different when you're in the assistant.

I remember saying that the good news to get him out here. I love them. Yeah. And I don't know that didn't pan out real well. Right. But I liked him. He's like this tall. Yeah.

You've seen him. He's right up in your face and say, yeah, get skating out there. What the hell? You know, like, I love him. I thought it was awesome. I just wonder if in 2016, like, that his coaching style is necessarily the best way to approach, especially like these younger players that are, I don't want to pull a whole millennials thing, right? But it's like, it's just a different mentality and a different sort of just.

See, I always say like, you know, I agree. I think, you know, the John Cooper's of the game are going to take over. These kids want feedback and they want to know where they stand. John tells you where you stand. It's not always pretty, but at least you know where you stand. I think it's different now. I always like coaches who, you know, obviously, I didn't need a coach to, you know, write out the power play breakout or go to the chalkboard and tell me, you know,

how to stick handle and skate. Like, you know, I wanted the guy that give you a reason to get excited to play that particular night. That's the kind of coach I like. That's the kind of coach I want to be. Yeah. Right? But you need both now. So if you're going to be the head coach, for me, a head coach is a guy in 82 game season in playoffs.

He needs to light a fire under people and getting excited about their opponent that particular night. That's a hard thing to do for nine months of the year. But also be a forward-thinking guy too. Sure, no. That's why you hire people. Like analytics. Right. And they design a team around.

Yeah, Rocky's a good example. We're just talking about Rocky Thompson and Windsor. Rocky motivates that team too. Like he's a guy that, you know. Totally. Times of your heartstrings. You don't get you. It gets you fired up to be excited to play.

I remember last year going out with Rocky when Edmonton was in town and Tyler, dealt. And I'm like, you know, blown away. Because my, you know, my last impression, my last thought of, you know, Rocky Thompson is that crazy guy on me. Yeah. Who wants to beat everybody off. And I'm, and I'm talking to him. And I'm like, this is like one of the most, like, thoughtful, like, curious, like, intrigue.

He's like really, like he's all in. Well, that story at the NHL draft when the guys, he's holding for him. It's great. Well, Rocky, you know, it's, uh, Sunrise Florida. They're having a coaching seminar. Very first guy at the mic, 300 coaches, you know, all levels of hockey NHL guys. They do it every year at the draft, and usually it's a lot of this. Yeah, yeah.

So he's first, you know, who's first. Right. So he's got an hour of whatever. And it's offensive strategy. Right. Who would have thought Rocky Thompson? and be teaching offensive strategy to NHL coaches. But it goes up there.

And Bob Boogner to tell it, and Warren Reichel would tell me, like, here's all these coaches and GMs. All of a sudden they got their folder out and start writing stuff now. To a man. Like, you know, and they'd rest. But his big thing, too, in the presentation was breaking the puck out up the middle. Yeah, possession and using different parts.

Yeah, yeah, they get swarming. Actually, I've learned a lot just being down there covering, like, Windsor on a TV coach and goes on a new color for this. So I go down and chat with the coaches every night. and I've just been down there when he's doing some video with things and we talked about this D-to-D and then a little bumper, little dump plays in the top of the slot,

if you see teams doing it all the time. He used to do it in Europe, but he's, you know, sort of, you know, he's an interview. He really thinks outside the box. The kids love it. Because, you know, again, these kids go in and you have a video session. When I was a kid in video sessions, we're like, oh, God, he's going to drag somebody through the mud.

It's going to be embarrassing. We're going to go home, right? Here, look at that mistake. Here's a reason. Yeah, right. But this is, he doesn't do that. He brings, how about this? try this.

Yeah. You know, and that's how you told me, right? You pointed this out on TV. Like, what he does, like with the D-to-D on the power play. Yeah. The way, the way he stretches them across to open up lanes. Like, okay, if you're going to chase, then you're the odd man, ice slip there. But if you don't, then all of a sudden, we're treating lamps.

Where normally, I mean, you thought like power play, it's, you know, on defense, it's like, okay, if the left he has the puck, the right, he's got to be in the middle. Not so much. Rock's got him at the other side. The wider the past, the better. Yeah. The wider the past the better because that spreads out their. right absolutely penalty killers they got to get over into the lane

way over by the boards and then when you do that a couple times you throw it in there's nobody around that guy can walk right in and maybe seen that's called the Sedeen bumper play bumper play no it's a really good point about the the video strategy whatnot

and kind of not necessarily just grilling guys all the time I had Mike Johnson on the podcast a few weeks ago and he was telling me about how Lindy Ruff is sort of the same way where instead of just like being like oh like you messed up here by trying to do too much clean it up next time he sort of calls out guys for making the overly conservative player.

He calls out guys positively for being like, you did this well here, right? Keep doing this, right? And it's interesting because I think that's sort of you need to do that. And I hear similar stories about Ken Hitchhawk, for example, who I remember earlier used to be sort of the same, used to be the same way. Really?

Yeah, no, from what I hear. Hitch is a smart guy. I remember when I was working at hockey night, I did, who was a corporate sponsor, Hyundai, I think. I did a bunch of coaching clinics that I hosted with Hitch. and I was blown away at how this guy thinks the game and what he was talking about. And actually it was funny too

a couple of times with a couple of the elite guys is like, I'm going to ask you to leave now, Jeff, because this is kind of coach his own. And I was like, oh man, not in the frat, not in the frat. Well, I remember towards the end of his Columbus stay, people were like, I don't know, he's rubbed so many people the wrong way. I think this could be he can hit truck last stop.

And then look how long he stayed in St. Louis now. And from everything that I hear, sort of toned it down a little bit, just a little bit of an on-off switch in terms of not constantly being 100%. I think I think I think everybody did, but I'm pretty sure. Towards maybe hasn't adapted as well as some, but I think Hitch is smart enough that he's like, okay, I can't be. You know where...

I can't yell at JR the whole shit. Yeah. Okay, you know what, though? You mentioned Lindy Ruff a second ago. You know what he's great at? He's great from what I'm told, because I'm out of the room. What I understand is he's great at understanding when guys are sick. of his voice and let the assistants come in.

You can talk about this as an idea. How many times is like, oh, God, this again. Oh, my God, this voice again. He's like good at reading the room and saying, you know what? They've heard enough of my voice. We talk about it with my 10-year-olds team. You do the meeting tonight. That's got that power skating girl in your own different practice.

That's all part of it too. These kids, again, they're, you know, short-term memory. They want to have a new, something new to think about. So I think it's good, even at that level, for sure. And, you know, Lindy's adapted to, you know, Lindy was difficult, too. Yeah. Back in the day. Like, he was, you know, so all these coaches that are still of that, you know.

Right. There's a reason why they're still. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I wonder if. You have to know, you know, how far can I push things. I wonder if getting that hockey Canada rub here in Vancouver helped them. Yeah. Right?

Because he was coaching. I remember going to Team Canada orientation camp. And at the end of it, I mean, and Lindy Ruff was the junior coach out of all those guys. And who was putting pucks in the bucket? right right right i'm like what is really rough like bucketing pucks here part of it is surrounding yourself with good people like i always think if i you know if i'm if i remember coaching i want you know i want smart people to help me like i'm not going to be uh you know so uh preoccupied but there are some my own opinions being you know the end all be all i want people around me to

but there are some coaches that will fill their staff with guys who are not a threat to their job right but we see that in the league all the time but not so much anymore you got to have a bigger staff of people that are proactive and ready to work. Yeah. All right. One final thing. And I'm glad Todd's here. So he's actually kind of can speak from experience about this.

But it's not even my time in the NHHF? It's this sort of idea of score effects. And I argue with people about this all the time. The which. Score effects. So it's basically when every single team when they're up. Yeah. Plays back.

And they get killed in shots and goals. And obviously the universe, right? If you're down three goals, you're probably going to be done. when he play, right? And I deal with this all the time with fans of various teams, and it happens the most with El Nvino and the Rangers, where people seem convinced that he's the only coach that plays a more conservative shell when he has a lead.

And it's like every single team does this. And I think it's a little bit of, and it's a problem, just in the sense that you can kind of lull yourself to sleep and you sort of unnecessarily take your foot off the gas pedal. I want to do this. And I completely understand that it's sort of, it might just be like how humans are wired sort of thing

in the sense that, like, it's natural if you're up 4-1 we got this when you have somebody conserved all of a sudden you're a conservative right exactly it's hard to just like

you're up 4-1 okay I'm gonna try to score this fifth goal really hard right now as opposed to if you're coming back but I think like the first coach that figures this out is gonna be a very rich man because no one seemed to figure it out yet

and it might be it might be when robots are playing in NHL or something I don't know but it's okay Todd I wish I had the answer that you know it's gotta be mental for me it's like

it's an urgent, like when you're, you know, when you, and plus you, if you're down and you're embarrassed and there's some, you know, fire and urgency to your game and, and it's natural when you're leading to feel some complacency and feel like, you know, everything's right in the world. I think the question, though, is that, is that deliberate? Is that okay, boys, we're sitting on, we're sitting on a puck here. You got five minutes left. No, I don't think, I don't think you can, you can, it's just, it's psychological. Right.

It's naturally, you can't, I don't think you can quantify why that happens other than, you know, If I'm losing, I'm upset and working harder than I am when I'm winning. You're still like, oh, I've got a chance. I've got a chance to come back here. But if you're up, let's say you're up two goals with five minutes left. Are you still taking chances offensively? Instinctively. Or are you saying yourself, I're up two pucks.

You know what? I'm just going to save it here. If I'm coaching, there's things I wouldn't do. I mean, that's my Ken Hitchcock story. I wasn't allowed to pass it towards our net. Oh, that's right. Tell that one. That's an interesting story.

So, no, because he's such a defensive might. I agree with it, Ojo. I learned a lot from him. He was really, really smart about system and how to defend. Right. So, you know, it was hard enough. He'd be on you for passing laterally. So if we had the puck in there end behind the goal line, we weren't allowed to,

we didn't want us throwing it out in the slot. Because then there's your analytics stuff. That's an odd man rush the other way. Yeah. So laterally was fine. Right. Right. But not towards our net.

Right. You don't pass the puck towards our net. Like never I remember looking at Marty Murray Marty Murray who's one of the best passers Great passer I was like So you're just gonna hold on that puck

Why would I get open? Right? Yeah But you know so Right That's my point Well I think it's a dual thing right Like players

You're just naturally more conservative I mean not in conservative But you might not necessarily be You got nothing to lose Right When you're losing Right So go after it

What the heck I think it's a cold. Turn it over. We get beat. We're getting beat. Yeah. Right? So,

it might as well try and make a difference. Yeah. Can I ask you a question? Okay. Ask you a question on your podcast? Yeah. When you're playing and you're on a power play and you hear, and you're at home.

Oh, shoot. Oh, my God. First of all, do you hear it? And second of all, what goes through your head? You say like, shut the hell up. Well, you know I never really made it on the power play. I guess you're on the bench and you're hearing it on behalf of one on the ice. No.

I don't. I didn't. You know what you hear, like, and it was for me, it was when I would do Europe. You would hear the crowd when they would introduce your team. But once the game started, like, I'm not sure. You don't do you. You don't do you? Really? That affected by the crowd and stuff like that.

No. I mean, scoring a goal and the crowd, that's like I never forget. Right. But if you're on the ice processing the game properly or invested in the game, then I'm not sure you hear the crowd. I did. We'll only turn it out, eh? What about playing in certain rinks and them having, like, specific goal songs for the other team?

And then you being on the ice and hearing that and maybe like a traumatizing effect. But that's a stoppage. Right. Like, hang on. So it doesn't care over. Luongo's grandkids are going to hear Chelsea Dags and they're born. Yeah. Poor guy.

Do you hear that? Like, do you know, like, oh, that damn song again? I'm trying to remember one specifically, but. It's one of those slaps like, never want to hear a lady of Spain again. While you're playing, like, I'm pretty, pretty surely. Like, you hear the voices on the ice and you hear what happens and the refs and everything else, the coaches sometimes yelling at you. No.

Which teams have the goofiest game ops? The goofiest game's out. You'd be like, I don't believe what they're doing. I mean, that was part of promoting the game in the South Phoenix. Maybe I'd do like fashion shows. Nashville, where they had the band in the end and they had some goofy stuff. They had like these big foam things where they'd be, reet, reet, reet, and the screech. Would you ever launch one up there?

No, no. to the band? That's good. I took it to go to a country singer right in the middle of the game. To go to the bass drum. We've got mesh up now. Oh, yeah. And no.

You want to tell you one touch story? Oh, yeah. Let's wrap it up. Let's wrap it up. Let's wrap it up. Okay. So Todd is legendary. Okay.

And so we're at the Memorial Cup last year in Quebec City. I can't really tell. Now, he was draft. You can tell you. You can tell us. Oh, we can just remove it post office. Okay. That's fine.

You can tell us story? I can't swear. Oh, you can swear. Oh, you can just wear. It's fine. It's fine. Hey, man, it's your career. Um, I'm already done, but.

Uh, so we're in, we're in Quebec City and the minute Todd goes into the call he say, people come up to him and they're not calling him Todd. Like, hey, one touch. Hey, one touch. One touch. What's up one? Like to a person. Like everybody.

One touch, one touch. Oh, Smitty. And, yeah. Smitty. Smitty, of course. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah.

We played with him in Europe. But like, everyone's like, one touch, one touch. So it's one of them. Because we always bemoan the fact that. nicknames now are just like vanilla cake with mayonnaise frosting. Man, this is boring as hell. And you had one of the more creative nicknames of all time.

One touch. Yeah. The genesis of that story was. I was a rookie playing for Pat Burns in Toronto. And we were playing in New Jersey. And so one touch is a term for a one touch pass. Right. It's like, you know, if you're teaching kids where they don't stick handling, you just, you get it.

You move it right away with a touch. like a little button pass. So I'm over on the half wall here in our end, and Todd Gill is carrying it around the net, and he passes it to me on the half wall. And I try to... So I got a couple guys closing on me. I tried to just one touch it back to him,

but it jumps over a stick. It wasn't a good one. Jumped over a stick. The guy who hits me actually goes right by him, too, and throws it out front, and hits Jamie McCown on the foot and goes into the net, right off the back of his heel,

into our net. One-0, Jersey. And that was pretty much game over at that point. the dude was New Jersey I don't remember so Bernsey comes in and New Jersey in the dressing room there was a

big island tall and had the tape and the gatorade on it and so Bernsey's walking around and because I'm a rookie I'm actually sitting right by the door which would go into the trainer's room and I'm right behind the door

like I'm literally like right in here behind the door but Todd's saying is he's hiding from the coach no it's just where I had to sit because I was a rookie so he's walking around the room and he's telling you know whatever happened and he goes and Todd and he's trying to find

So Mike Hudson, who's sitting beside me, he's tapping. He's looking for it. He's looking for him. So I was thinking I'd get up and face the music. So he says, and Todd, there's only two effing guys in this league who can make one touch passes. He says, Gretzky and Lemieux. And last I checked, you weren't one of them. So he comes around.

He figures out, I must be behind the door because he's been looking for him. And he comes over and I'll show it to you on the tape if you want. And he walked into the training room. So whatever. The guys were like, don't worry about it. The game goes, I don't even know what happened in the game. I was like, next week in practice, next week in practice, everything gets cooled down. I score a goal and practice.

I mean, he had this French guy named Benoit Hogue. You remember a Highlander guy. Benny Hogue, funny guy. So in his French accents, he goes, out of way, one touch. Right? So Bernsie hears that, you know, everybody's chuckling. Right. So then later in practice, Mike Gartner, same thing.

One touch. I just play one touch, you know? So I skate by, and I tell this story, too, and I skate by Bernsey, and he starts to come down to me. Like, I've been there now for four months. He has this word to me. Like, I would avoid him like the plague. Like, you know, Pat Burns, the young guy. Like, it was rare that I was even playing.

Yeah. I see him coming out of the core of my eye. I'm thinking, oh, I'm, I tell you, I think, I'm going to be in St. John's by Newman. He's coming down. And so I'm kind of leaning on my pants. He kind of shuffles in right beside me. And I'm like, what is he doing? Oh, my God, I was just panicked, right?

He goes, well, looks like he got a nickname, hey, kid. And he just skated away. He just skated away. So then it stuck. And then I got traded like four times. So I'd walk into dressing room and say, hey, one touch. It was like, it's a good icebreaker. Right.

Got it around the league. That's fantastic. That's a good name, though. I should be your Twitter handle at one touch. That's way better than the current neck names are right. It's the worst. Just add an EY or an ear or something. Yeah.

Or if your last name's Campbell, it's soup. It wasn't. Soupy. Super. Very glamorous story. I like it. I like One Touch. That's a good name.

All right, guys. We should get out of here. We're going to dinner. Mexican food, right? Yeah. Nice. So people, the game is on Thursday, right? Thursday, a prospect game, CHL, NHL, Todd Warner on the bench with Glenn Hanlon.

You have team O'R? Or, yeah. Bobby's bench with Glenn, yep. So who are some of the players we should be watching for on your squad that you will be shepherding? Shergachev. Oh, what team is he played on again? Spitfires. He's ranked eighth overall or something.

Yeah, a little low, I don't know. Gochay's on the other team, right? Julian Gocee. Yep. Yeah, he'll be able to. No Tyler Benson now, unfortunately. You have Logan? Brown?

Logan Brown's on the other team. I got Sir Cuthiervin Stanley on my team from Windsor. Now, Logan Stanley is someone you're going to notice right away because he's 6'7-7? Yeah, yeah. Six-seven defenseman.

To Chuck's on my team. Mm-hmm. He's our captain. Help me out, Jeff. He will bit him. A little firing forward from Flint can score. I like him. Yeah. I like him a lot.

He's something special. But Matthew Kuchuk's worth the price of admission. Yeah. Like he's... He's gonna go top five. Maybe two. Maybe two. I know if everyone loves the Finns,

but... Carter Hurton. Dylan Wells, I think I'm our goalies. So, yeah, it'll be good. Cool. I'm looking forward to seeing the combine, too, actually. Are you? Like the on ice part where they test them and they got the races and all the agility stuff.

It's funny. We were watching. We were with me last year. We were watching up in the stands. It was me and Damien. Were you there for the? No, we showed clips of them, but I didn't watch it live. You know what?

Because we were standing there and we're, Damien and I had to support sort of both look to each other and went, where did all the bad skaters go? Yeah. I don't know. They can all move now. Everybody. It gets remarkable. Yeah, that's right.

Everyone's good. Fantastic. It's the wave. Should be fun. Cool. Well, everyone's going to check that out on Thursday. And guys, thanks for taking the time to do the show. Yep.

Thanks for us. Cool. Sorry, we talked prospects, Travis. You have to listen to this one. The Hockey PDOCast online at HockeyPedocast.com. Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and at Travis Yost.