The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 56: The Curious Case of Dennis Wideman

Episode Date: February 9, 2016

Chris Johnston joins the show to discuss the bizarre situation that resulted in Dennis Wideman's 20-game suspension, and how it raises bigger questions about the faulty concussion protocol the league currently has in place. We also look into Sidney Crosby's resurgence since a slow start to the year, whether Connor McDavid could (and should) make a comeback to win the Calder Trophy, and if the loser point will cause a gridlock on trade deadline day. Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show. There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl defensive end, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and, of course, the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

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Excellent. Yeah, that's quite a feat, man. I've only been in Montreal once myself this past summer, actually. And yeah, I definitely know where you're coming from with that. There's just not a lot of, what's the best way to put it? There's not a lot of people dissuading you from having fun there. I feel like, You know, even I attended both of the games that HABs played over the weekend. There's a lot of scouts and NHL people there. And I got the sense that everyone was having a lot of fun. It's just something in the air. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. All right, man, it's been over a week since we've done this show.

And I know that the listeners are kind of excited to, or chomping at the bit for us to be back at it. So let's just jump right into the content. And I think that we haven't really recorded the show since all the Dennis Wydman stuff kind of happened. And I don't know. I know that it's been, what, a week now, maybe even nearly two weeks, and it's been dissected from every single angle possible, but I figured we'd at least kind of touch on it around the show. And there's just so many,

so many ways to go with it. And I don't even know how to begin unpacking it, I guess, just like, what did you think of the decision to suspend him for 20 games? I was surprised that the league went that far. You know, typically, I think that the NHL kind of, you know, tries to give players a benefit of the doubt when it comes to supplemental discipline. And, you know, very rarely do we see them come down in a way that people would deem to be excessive. And, you know, a lot of people in hockey feel that this was excessive. That, you know, because of some of the mitigating circumstances, probably most notably the fact he, you know, he likely or did suffer a concussion right before, you know, he hit the linesman there. That, you know, maybe a 10-game suspension, which is kind of in the rulebook under the non-intent injure play was probably,

more appropriate and you know it might still get somewhere close to that through the appeals process but I was I was surprised the league came out hard but you know the one thing I do think is that you just can't hit an official and that's that that's part of the message I believe they're trying to send it's it's a it's sort of meant to be something that gets everyone else's attention not just Dennis widenman's right I think that's a really kind of astute point because the way I've seen people talking about it's not mutually exclusive, right? Like, you can punish the guy for, you need to send a message and you can't put your hands on an official. Like, that's a no-no in the league. But at the same time, it's sort of disingenuous to suggest that he wasn't at least under some sort of influence. I mean, if you

watch that replay, the way he kind of gets up and stumbles towards his bench, like, it's pretty clear that he was feeling some sort of after effects from that hit. And it almost certainly, based on what we know, was at least some sort of kind of incident of a concussion. And just the way all of it's been handle is kind of what upset me more than anything else, I guess. Well, and the biggest issue I think the league has with a lot of suspensions is establishing intent because, you know, occasionally I guess something is a direct retaliation to something we see and you can kind of infer what a player's thinking when he, you know, crosses the line. But in this case, it's difficult. I mean, I think it's plausible for us to maybe assume that

he was mad. There wasn't a penalty on the play in the corner and that he was on the way to the bench and probably seeing red. And the lineson was kind of in his path a little bit. And he just was like, get out of my way. I got to get off the ice. But, you know, really this case, you know, comes down to intent because that's the way it's worded in the rulebook that the 20 game suspension is based on an intent to injure the official. It's a 10 game for basically touching an official and you get the extra 10 if it's deemed that you were excessive in the way that you did so. So, you know, that seems to be kind of the crux of the decision to me. But, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, do actually feel a little bit of sympathy for Dennis White. I'm going to have to be honest, just because

you know, I actually had an executive from another team tell me, we asked these guys to play on the line. Like, like, the only way you can play in the NHL is if you're constantly, you know, you've got to be pushing the edge of what you're allowed to do of how you are. And when we cross, and when they cross it like this, they get, you know, kind of punished pretty harshly. And you just, I just think that given the circumstances of that game, it's a tough one to And as I said, I really wouldn't be surprised to see his number come down a bit, which might at least make, you know, Dennis Wybin feel better than the Calgary Flames. But, you know, a really tough situation for a guy who's played 800 games in league almost and really hasn't drawn any attention like this in the past. Right, yeah, that's the kind of weird part, right?

Like, he's been in the league for over a decade and without any sort of real past track record of incidents like this. And then all of a sudden for him to just kind of snap and just take out all of his frustrations on an official just seems like a very weird angle for me to view it from. it does. I mean, it would be a lot easier for everyone's minds. I think if it was, you know, one of the players that's frequently suspended just because, you know, everyone could just go, yeah, well, that's what this guy does. But, you know, this is actually what Dennis Widman doesn't do. And, and, you know, I think that that that kind of raises some more complex questions. And, you know, the concussion angle is interesting, given kind of what's going on more broadly with the lawsuit that the league is dealing with and that more players continue to keep joining with what's happening in other sports. And I think even just, with the protocol, which clearly wasn't followed correctly here by the flames. And that's kind of its own separate issue. But it's all, you know, when someone's hearing an appeal on this or trying to make that decision, it's all got to be weighed, I think, you know, when you're doing that. So the first appeal, as far as I understand, it's going to be Gary Bettman on this week on

Wednesday, right? He's going to be hearing his appeal and deciding where they go from there. And then eventually, if it's still over six games or something like that, then they can go to a neutral party? That's correct. Yeah. And that was added the neutral party option. was added in the CBA that was done in 2013.

And interestingly enough, it's never been used. It's never, you know, been seen through. And I would think in this case, it will just because, you know, this is going to remain more than six games. If, you know, if Gary Batman reduces the suspension, I don't think he's taking 14 games off of it. You know, it might take 10 at the most. But, you know, I would, you know, just think it's likely that that's where it ends up. And, you know, if that happens, I mean, that neutral arbitrator has the right to make it more than 22. I mean, basically, it's almost like a new start, you know, with the various sides.

And in this case, there's a few different parties making their points and that person coming to a ruling. So, you know, from seeing how the CBA works kind of standpoint, it's going to be an interesting couple weeks because, you know, I think we're going to see something new here. And it could establish some precedents. But, you know, as it stands right now, Gary Bettman's the next line. But I'd be very surprised if it ended there. Right. Well, I find, you know, he could obviously prove me wrong after this appeal process goes through, but like, based on everything we know, I find it hard to believe that Gary Bettman's going to kind of,

for him to reduce the suspension in any meaningful way, he's sort of going to have to concede that the concussion protocol and how it was used here was just horribly off base, right? Because that's what, that's that angle Wyatman's going with, that he wasn't like in the right frame of mind and he was influenced in some way by this, right? So for them to reduce it by, let's say, if they reduce it down to 10 games, for example, he's going to have to be like, okay, the NHL's sort of messed up here and the flames messed up in the way they handle this whole situation and we're going to have to look into it. And the NHL just doesn't seem like that's the way they operate. Well, and the weirdest part of all is that now essentially Gary

Bettman is evaluating the job Colin Campbell did in coming up with this suspension. And he's, you know, he's basically his top lieutenant on the hockey side of the way the league works. And, you know, it's kind of a strange process, you know, for that. But, you know, Gary Bettman was not involved in any way in the original discipline hearing. He didn't attend it in Toronto last week and presumably wasn't consulted on, you know, that 20-game decision. I mean, maybe, I don't know if it kind of goes by him in a informal way, but he certainly wasn't actively involved in it.

Now this is where he gets actively involved. And, you know, one of the main guys he'll interview is Colin Campbell and try to determine whether he went about sort of assessing the situation correctly, which, you know, I find the notion of that a little bit awkward. and I think that's why the NHLPA did fight to get the neutral arbitrator, you know, option into the CBA just, you know, for cases like this one. Right. So from a more kind of macro perspective, moving forward, like, is there any sort of, have you heard any rumblings or any potential plan moving forward to, I guess, adjust the concussion protocol, especially with regards to the concussion spotters? because it just seems like a horribly flawed system from my perspective where

the team and the player are never going to really willingly do the right thing and send a player out of the game to actually be evaluated properly, especially here as the year gets going along and the games are all with more importance and whatnot. Like it just seems like there's a real conflict of interest here. And I haven't really necessarily heard much about plans to make any sort of fundamental changes moving forward. but I don't know, maybe I just haven't been talking to the right people. Well, I think that this is going to be a hot topic come the general managers meeting in March, which is where a lot of these type of changes come up.

And, you know, at this point, you haven't heard much because I don't think there's much in the works. I mean, they haven't even officially decided, you know, how the flames themselves will be dealt with. I mean, the league has said that they've fined teams for breaching protocol in the past, but obviously those fines have been kept quiet as opposed to something that's announced publicly. And, you know, I would think that there's just going to need to be a little bit more of a clear directive here and a little bit more transparency about how it works and when teams do cross the line and how they're dealt with because, you know, that this is, you know, probably the most important issue in sports, really concussions, especially high impact sports like football and hockey. And with the litigation that's going to be held in court, I would just think that we're going to see more sort of open dealings with these things. but I almost feel as though they have to get through just figuring out with the widened suspension and move forward with that before kind of tackling some of the bigger

issues that clearly this incident brought attention to. All right, well, let's move on. Travis and I are planning on recording kind of a mega show about all this stuff tomorrow, so I don't want to kind of keep repeating the same stuff over and over again. But let's talk a little bit about Crosby because obviously he's been kind of one of the other main storylines around the league and deservedly so. I mean, you look at the kind of standings now, and he's ninth for points with Wheeler, Goddrow, and Malkin, and he's basically back to a point of game, and it just seems kind of like a remarkable transformation

given where he was for the first, I guess, two months of the season or maybe even a bit longer than that. And I don't know, like, has there been any sort of, what have you been hearing or seeing yourself in terms of, has there been any sort of fundamental changes, or is just something that's sort of, like obviously his shooting percentages kind of jump back up to what we'd expect from him And maybe it was just something that was going to happen eventually, or is it some sort of actual change that's happened from Johnston to Sullivan that's kind of spurred this change? Well, he certainly seems to be generating more shots, you know, which is, you know,

even with the shooting percentage going up, he was going to be producing more offense with that. But, you know, I think there is something about the coaching situation. I mean, I know that's a tougher one to measure, but, you know, he certainly had his lowest production over, you know, about 100 games under Mike Johnson. Johnson than he ever had before and what he's had since. And, you know, clearly there's been some positive transformation there with, you know, I think the way that the team plays, it's a little less conservative. He's being encouraged and the whole team is being encouraged to produce more offense.

And, you know, I don't think that they're having to button things down quite as much. And that's obviously benefited Sid. But, you know, I do think on some level that he was going to get back to something close to what we were used to seeing. I mean, it was just such an outlier performance. over the first 20 or 25 games of the year. And, you know, he didn't play well. I was in Pittsburgh a couple games in October, and it was just, it was weird to see him that way.

It was way, you know, he was ineffective, basically, in a couple of those games and not looking like himself. And then you watch the way that the Panthers game unfolded on the weekend. And you could just sense it coming again. And he was just generating so much offense. And it felt like, you know, hockey is such a team sport. But when you get those special players and you're just, drawn to them and you're just constantly watching them. And, you know, he's, you know, single-handedly

with Chris Lathang helped Pittsburgh a race a 2-0 lead late in the game and win the game in overtime. And, you know, it was great. I mean, for me, actually, Demetriette, like this week, first week out of the All-Star break was probably the most exciting week of the season for me, just as watching the games, you know, between McDavid coming back and having Crosby on this level with this 10-game point streak and Eric Carlson. And it's just, it just feels like there's an energy around the league and obviously we're getting closer to the trade deadline but also to you know the the the playoff chases and you know it's it's great i think to have some of these great individual performances going on well and i mean speaking of great individual performances you were also in montreal this weekend

so i'm sure that helps with uh how you're perceiving this week right it does but you know it's like i i wouldn't say i was never skeptical about connor macdavid but there's just something about when you go there and you get to watch them and and really interact with everyone i mean what's amazing to me is if you look at, you know, the way this year started, I believe Peter Shirelli did an interview just before the season, and he said 20 goals and 40 points would be a good season for McDavid. And, you know, it was a pretty clear attempt to try to, you know, relax expectations and just have him play. But, you know, he's, he'd only played 15 games by the time he got to Montreal just because of, you know, what's happened with his injury. And by this

point, you know, you have Todd McClellan saying he's worth three quarters of a goal to a goal game for our team. Like all of the players, you know, I was kind of like, you know, I was kind of Like my thought going in was, you know, when I go in that room, are they going to be tired of talking about them? Are they kind of going to be rolling their eyes? Because, you know, he's still not an established player in a sense, you know, in this sort of hierarchy. It was like everyone was conceding his greatness and P.K. Suban after the game.

And it just, you know, I don't know. It feels like we've gone very quickly. I mean, it was a lot of time that elapsed, but not a lot of games from, you know, kind of trying to keep, you know, expectations in check to everyone just so like, yeah, he's going to be the best player in the league in very, short order. Right. Well, I guess it is kind of a testament to just how overwhelmingly great he, I guess he is, and his

potential is that he has been sort of accepted by the other players like that, because I feel like hockey's one of the main sports where it's like you kind of have to earn your stripes, right? And like the old guard is going to kind of be wary of giving you too much too soon, and they're going to be a little cranky about it, but it just hasn't really been the case

with McDavid at all. It's true. And, you know, like F. K. Suben, who is arguably, certainly one of the top you know, personalities, but one of the top players in the league was, was like literally glowing because he said that he found this article where Connor McDavid said that he was his favorite player, an article that was written when Connor was 17. And he's, you know, he's kind of saying, well, if the next superstar in the league says that, you know, I'm going to, that's a feather in my cap. But it's sort of like, man, you're eight years older than him, far more established

than him, but you're just excited that he kind of knows who you are. I mean, it's, I don't know, there's a special energy around, you know, what's happening. And I do think that, you know, a lot of the expectations and things that have been said about McDavid are objectively true. If you just, if you just watch the games, I mean, he does things that you don't see other players do. And he's, you know, just turned 19 and, you know, just come back from a three-month injury and still doesn't, you know, know, how to find the visiting dressing room at least half the buildings in the league, you know?

I mean, like, it's, it's, you know, I haven't seen anything quite like it. I mean, it might even, the problem is we're not going to get a full season, so it's going to be tough to measure kind of historically. But, you know, based on what I'm seeing, had even healthy, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was in the top five or so of scoring this year. Well, what about Crosby's rookie season? Was that kind of comparable and just the way it's being handled? Or do you think this is kind of, even how large a degree,

just because of where we're at as a community and kind of with the information era here with all the technology and whatnot, just kind of being digested differently? That's probably part of it. I mean, you're right. Crosby and Ovechkin both had a hundred. points in that 05-06 season. I mean, that was, there was a spike in scoring league-wide that year coming out of the lockout

with a lot more penalties being called. And, you know, that was a pretty, you know, those are pretty good days too for the NHL. But, you know, I just think, I guess, as much as anything, I can't, and I don't think even if Connor plays the rest of the year and we get a 45 games of them, you know, it's going to be still difficult to make that comparison because, you know, one of the adjustments all these guys have to make is playing 82 games. It's a long year.

it's a grind. There are even more ups and downs than I think they face in junior hockey and other areas. So it's going to be tough to say this was objectively better than Crosby or Vetchins' rookie years. But it's certainly, he warrants a place alongside those guys based on just how big his impact has been on the league and on the team. And, you know, I think he can certainly, I mean, one way make a pretty strong statement is if he continues producing over a point of game for that period. I mean, he's going to be top 10 in a league, at least in points per game. And that's still pretty significant if he does get those 45 games in. Yeah, that's not bad.

One final thing on Crosby, and then let's actually kind of dive deep into McDavid season because I did want to talk to you about that. But I don't know, for your money, do you think that that 2010, 2011 Crosby, like right leading up to the Winter Classic was the best Crosby we've ever seen? And I guess we probably ever will see, right? There's 100% no doubt in my mind. I mean, that was the best, I think we've seen anyone in a long time in this league. And, you know, he had that 25-game scoring streak that ended the game before the Winter Classic, a game against the Islanders,

which, you know, funny enough, is the team he's torched the most throughout his career. It's kind of where he's gone to get his four-point and five-point nights. But he was just on a completely other level. You know, he still finished pretty high in the scoring race, given that he then set out the second half of the season with the concussions. he suffered first at the Winter Classic and then the game after against Tampa Bay. And, you know, he just was, he was totally on another planet at that point. And it makes sense.

I mean, based on what we've seen with all great scorers, I mean, he was right at that age where, you know, he was, you know, kind of his moment to have his great seasons. And I think, unfortunately, with Sydney, even as great as his career ends up being and wherever his numbers are at, I think it's always going to be a bit defined by, you know, what he lost. And the fact that he ended up sitting out, you know, the second half of that season and most of the year after that with the various, you know, concussion and neck issues he had. And those were the seasons where he was going to have his sort of years where he won a scoring title by 40 points or whatever was going to end up being. And, you know, so part of kind of his legacy will be a little bit incomplete in our minds. And, you know, I guess it's a fact of life.

I mean, Mary Lou Mew dealt with that a lot, been missing a lot of seasons with, you know, those types of things and didn't end up as high on the list as he would. otherwise but you know i think for for sidney that'll be something that has to be taken into account that he didn't just miss time he missed the time when he was without he was you know head and shoulders above everyone else in the league right and obviously there's a you know a ton of luck in that but it just kind of also is another notch for for ovechkin just the fact that he's missed like what 10 games over the course of his entire career due to injury like that's just insane and obviously he's been fortunate to stay healthy but it just kind of like speaks to the freak of nature that he is yeah he's a beast and and it's actually been kind of cool that

year to see, I think a lot of the Ovechkin hate is gone. I think, you know, people, almost seem to have a healthy respect for, you know, what he is. And part of it, I guess, is because, you know, it was pitted so long about Crosby versus Ovechkin, where, you know, really, I think we should look at it as two different types of players that are both extremely special at the same time. You know, it's not a, this one is better than the other. You know, I don't think it has to be measured that way. And obviously with time and with, you know, kind of, I think people viewing it a little bit less in that light, we can acknowledge, hey, that these guys are both great and, you know, Vetchkin.

I think now people are saying he's the greatest goal score ever, certainly in that conversation. And given all the stuff he dealt with, you know, about three, four years ago, that's a nice place for him to be in. And I love to me in the Washington Capitals, to me, are among the top three teams, I would say, are going to win the Stanley Cup. I don't think I'd be surprised if it wasn't LA, Chicago or Washington still. And, you know, that's pretty cool for him that maybe he'll get, some of that individual team achievement that people sort of question him for not having.

Well, at the same time, though, I mean, as great as all of this is, and I do think people have sort of generally turned a corner on him, like, assuming they, let's say they run into a hot goalie in the first or second round and lose, and even if he leads the team in scoring, it's still going to be, oh, Vetchkin didn't have what it took to get his team over the hump, right? Like, you know people are going to circle back to that narrative. I hope we just don't read them, you know? I mean, it's just clearly so dumb. and I mean look we do know it individuals have a difficult

time making an impression on a sport the way they do in other sports basketball in particular I mean I guess beyond the goaltenders you know it's tough to on a night in night basis I think to to gauge and you know one thing that I think of every year

it literally happens every year Demetri when I go to the Stanley Cup final there's going to be the star on one of the teams who's not producing at that point in the playoffs and everyone's you know kind of questioning them but, you know, while sort of willfully ignoring that they played every other night for two months, and they face, like, insanely difficult checking assignments and all those sorts of things. I mean, it's just not a sport design for one guy to dominate it.

It really isn't, and, you know, you can't blame one player in a loss very often. Right, particularly after, like, a guy dominates for 82 games, and then he struggles for, like, seven games, let's say, and it's like, oh, we're going to completely throw out everything else we've seen and just solely judge it on his seven games. Well, it's the biggest time of year, and those players rise to the four. Yeah, it must be. It must be, because they weren't trying hard enough beforehand, of course. Exactly.

Yeah. Anyways, it's kind of cool just seeing what Crosby's doing these days. And look, I know the kind of fans of the sport, there's a certain segment that are kind of sick of the way hockey media covers Crosby, and it could be a bit much at times for sure. But there's no question the league's just a way better place. And it's just so much more fun when kind of Crosby's doing Crosby things like he is right now. And I don't think anyone can really argue that. So it just kind of, you're right. It is kind of the funest time on the season so far. just because guys like Carlson and McDavid and Crosby are playing at the highest levels,

and that's what the sport's all about. Well, and you feel like you have to watch their games because you might miss something. And, you know, to me, that's what the sport's about. I mean, sometimes it's hard to watch hockey in January. And, you know, the season gets to be a slog at that points. But, you know, I'll tell you this much, if I'm not out covering a game, I'm going to watch every Oilers game the rest of the year, even though they're going to miss the playoffs by a mile,

because, you know, I want to see what McDavid's doing. And similarly with the Penguins, you know, I think that they're a team you should be watching right now too. Just if you just kind of appreciate, you know, special players and the fact that that Crosby's doing it after, you know, a lot of people were rightfully, but kind of questioning where he was at and what the future was for him, he's authoring kind of a different story now where, you know, maybe he's not expected to be the best player in the world so much anymore,

but he's still showing that he's kind of worthy of the conversation. Right. All right, McDavid, let's do this. So he's had six points in four games since he got back. Obviously, kind of the main highlight real was that goal against the blue jackets he scored, and it was otherworldly no doubt about that. But I honestly think that the one he had against the Havs, where he nearly scored. I think it was against Jeff Petrie when he went through the legs was probably –

I think for my money it was actually a better highlight. It was, and if he had a scored, like, that's his sort of version of Ovechkin rolling around in Phoenix and scoring years ago. I mean, like that – I'm not sure that could be topped. I mean, I've literally never seen that. I was thinking I've probably been to 500 NHL games live. I've certainly watched thousands more on TV, and I just happened to be at the end of the press box where I was sitting.

And I, like, I jumped out of my seat. I've never, I'm telling you, it was unbelievable. I've never seen anything like that. Gila Point was sitting beside me a long time ago. Habs, Habs good player. And he was like, he was just marveling at it. I mean, it was crazy. And then to go back and hear Bob Cole's call on it,

and he just went, whoa! I mean, it just kind of summed it up. I mean, you know, most players obviously, you know, he had his path to the net being blocked, essentially by Petrie and his stick and would have simply went to their back hand and tried to make something of it. And that's why Ben Scrivens was cheating to that side of the net. And then he pulls it back through his legs and has a shot at the opposite corner and narrowly missed it. I mean, I've just never seen anything like that at that speed, you know, in a game situation. Lots of NHL players can do something similar at a morning skate when they're not being covered. but to pull it off in that moment, you know, even PK, he gave such a great interview, I keep talking about

him, but he said, you know, at that point, I looked, there's three minutes left, and I just hoped he was done, you know, because no one wants to be on the other side of those highlights, you know, the way Justin Falk and Jack Johnson were in the game against Columbus. Yeah, well, and I know the kind of Crosby-McDavid comparisons aren't, we're not being original with those, but when I watch him play, like, I don't know, do you agree with this, that he just sort of has that unique ability to do these ridiculous things with a puck at a high speed where it just seems like he's kind of operating at a different baseline than anyone else. And I don't know, just like watching him do that.

It's like, it's just remarkable. He is. And, you know, I noticed, like, he kind of had like a little Pavau Burry in him or something, too. Like, he kind of like lurks around the top end of the defensive zone. And it's like he's looking for those opportunities to, to intercept a pass or do something where he can get sent in on a breakaway. And, you know, I also kind of one other thing that stuck to me in watching him live is, you know, when the Oilers dumped the puck in, which, you know, they seem to do probably more than they should, he doesn't tend to waste any energy going to try to get it. I mean, part of that could just be his safety. And, you know, another aspect as he's playing with Benoit Pouliott now, whose job is to sort of recover in those situations or attempt to.

But he just, you can just see him thinking on a different level, you know, kind of moving around the ice in a way you're not accustomed to. and then when he gets it, he can accelerate so quickly, you know, to speed where, you know, I'd love to see him and Dylan Lark and do one of those All-Star game fastest skaters, because I'm not sure who would win that one, but he might be the fastest player in the league. And then he can, you know, has an array of skills, you know, at that speed that no one else does. And that, you know, really seems to be what sets him apart is that he can kind of go on those solo missions and make something out of them. Well, yeah, that's kind of the key point there, right?

Because we have guys like Carl Haglin and Michael Grave, A few years ago and guys like that, they're just like remarkably fast. You just watch them and they have this blazing gear that most guys don't have. But the fact that McDavid also has the hands and kind of the vision and the mind to pull off some of the other stuff he does at that speed is, I guess, what separates him from everyone else. Right. And those other fast guys you mentioned are just so frustrating to watch because you see the kind of brilliance in what they do and then they can't make anything come of it. And, you know, Connor McDavid can do that and then embarrass, you know, two defensemen and a goaltender and, you know, single-handedly.

And, you know, it'll be kind of interesting to see as time goes on and we get to see more of them, you know, how he handles playing with players that are slower than them, which is obviously an inevitability. And, you know, how he can, you know, become a more, you know, sort of useful part of a trio together. And I think it's incumbent upon those players, you know, more than it is him, obviously, to find ways to help him out. But, you know, we've seen Jordan Everly benefit in the early going here. The game in Ottawa, he played 12 minutes and he had seven shots on goal and I think two more that were blocked. and, you know, clearly there's some benefits to, you know, being played, you know, paired with McDavid because he's got a vision as well to pass the puck. It's not just goal score and we're looking at for him. Well, whoever winds up being his Chris Kuhnitz is going to be one lucky man.

Right, he's going to get on the Canadian Olympic teams and make lots more money than he would have and probably be given too much respect for what he does. But, you know, I mean, Chris Kudits, look, there's something maybe to that with Krosby is that, you know, he's slowing down a lot too. and for one reason or another, there's, you know, those guys had formed a successful pairing. And, you know, well, I do think a lot of it is Crosby. I mean, he did bring something that, you know, a whole slew of other linemates.

I think Crosby's had 50 or so linemates. Someone in Pittsburgh did an interesting story this year on all the kind of random guys he's played with over the years. But, you know, with Cunitz and Pascal Dupuy, he certainly had his most success. Right. And, you know, sometimes the Annalese community and whatnot likes to mock the idea of chemistry

and how guys fit together and whatnot, and everyone should, in theory, be able to play with Crosby because he's so overwhelmingly great. But there's no doubt that, like, kind of sometimes the pieces need to fit together and whatnot. And I saw it here in Vancouver with Alex Burroughs, where the Cidians had success with a bunch of other guys,

but Burroughs, for whatever reason, just kind of seemed to be able to think the game the way they did, right? Like, you'd get to the right spots, and he'd always have his stick in the right place, the right time, and stuff like that just sometimes fits together perfectly, and for whatever reason, Kunits has just worked well with Crosby. Yeah, and, you know, I think, you know, he's defensively pretty sound, Kunitz, or, you know, when he was at his best, and I think, I'm not sure old he's now 35, maybe, is he's getting to the point where he's clearly experiencing some, some, the downward spiral with age that comes to every NHL player, but, you know, I think that he kind of gave Sydney a little bit of peace of mind at times, and, you know, it is a weird thing, no, you're right, because everyone should be able to play with these guys, but, I mean, I just think with McDavid, we're seeing. him go on some of those one-on-two rushes because, you know, he's got the puck up ice and there's

no one that's going to be there with them. And, you know, at this point, I think he's trying to do some of it himself, which is not a criticism. If you can score goals like Mario Lemieux, you don't need me telling you what to do. But, you know, I just think over time, they're going to try to design ways to make sure that those guys are playing with them can support them better. And, you know, right now the Oilers are just, you know, they lost two games. What was it, 13 to 2 over the weekend? I mean, they're a disaster other than McDavid at this point. So they're just probably letting them go and let's see what the kid can do. So do you think they have 28 games left in the season?

Do you think there's any way that McDavid can conceivably put together a good enough run here to actually steal the calder away from a guy like Artemie Pernarin, for example? He's got a chance. I think he's got a chance. I mean, because we're probably going to finish that point where the thought in the mind of the writers that are voting is going to be, McDavid was clearly the best first-year player. but, you know, he didn't put up the same numbers, and I think some will make that decision to vote for him.

But, you know, I would never say he shouldn't because, you know, let's say he keeps doing this in this amount of time. He could get pretty high up the scoring list if he kind of continues on a similar point streak. And he's so clearly the Oilers best player already, I think. I mean, obviously Taylor Hall's, you know, having a decent enough year, struggled a bit lately, I think. But, you know, Conradiv is more impactful than Artemi Panarin. But, I mean, Panarin's having a great season.

And, you know, I think the other thing, too, let's face it, you know, not all the voting is done by, because there's lots of different viewpoints among the voters. There's over 100 people that vote on these awards. And some people are going to hold it against Panarin that he's 24 and that he played a number of years in Russia as a pro. And, you know, even though that is, there's nowhere in the awards sort of, you know, outlining what you're voting on, it says that that should be a factor. I think it's inevitable that some will view it that way and will therefore give, you know,

McDavid a little bit more benefit of the doubt in making that decision. Yeah. And Panarian has been awesome, you know, it's one of those things where you definitely want to reward a guy for the year he's currently having. But at the same time, the way I approach the awards is it would always be kind of cool to have them as sort of benchmarks to look back at history and be like, okay, in 2015, 2016, who was the best rookie, right? And there's no doubt that we're going to come away from the season thinking that

Connor McDavid was the best rookie whenever he was playing. So it just seems kind of silly to me to view it a different way than that. Right. And I think with the Calder especially, it's a different sort of award. I mean, like the heart, for example, is spelled out as the player most valuable to his team. So if you have a player that misses 40 games or almost 40 games, it can be harder to make that argument, I think, because, you know, the team had to play a lot of games without that guy, so they found a way to do it. You know, I think the Calder allows a little bit more subjectivity because it's, I think it's basically who's the best rookie.

And to me, it doesn't, you know, there's nothing in there that says he has to play a full season or, you know, look at it. It was a freak injury that McDavid suffered against Philadelphia. There was nothing, I don't know, there's nothing he could have done almost in that case. It just ended badly for him. And, you know, for him to come back, I mean, I think in some ways there's a really good argument that a guy sitting out three months in his rookie here in the NHL. and if he, you know, continues to take the league by storm after that, you know, long layoff and, you know, even the psychological difficulties that, you know, you went through just to have so much excitement for this year and have it taken away from them. I mean, I think that's even more impressive in some ways. And, you know, I, I in my mind, and I'm one of the voters, haven't at all ruled them out.

And, you know, I'm inclined already to start to think, I might as well just vote for them. But, I mean, there's a little bit of time here. And, you know, I'm sure that part of what we've seen this week is, kind of the adrenaline of getting back. And, you know, as I mentioned, it's a rigorous season. And I'll be hard to see him kind of every game doing as many standout things as he's done and the first four back from his injury. Yeah. All right. One final thing and we'll let you go, Chris. We're exactly three weeks away from the trade deadline. And I'm kind of looking at the landscape of the league. And there's maybe five or six teams that are out of the any sort of playoff race. And most of them are in the Pacific Division. And then you have Toronto, Buffalo, and Columbus, for example.

But there's so many teams there, like the Carolinas and the Philadelphias and teams like that that are just sort of hanging around. And even though they probably won't make the playoffs, they still, I guess, have an outside shot. And a lot of that is because of the loser point and just how it muddies the waters and whatnot. But I don't know. Like, do you think that's going to mess with the trade deadline just in the sense that teams might be less likely to sell off players that they would have otherwise just because they don't kind of want to send that message to either the other players in the room or their fans that they're giving up on the season? that's going to be a factor. I think the uncertainty of the salary cap is going to be a factor. And I think teams actually have started viewing contracts and what they do with their players differently, literally even within the last 12 months. And all of it to me suggests that,

yes, there's still going to be trades. There's going to be a reason to have 10 hours of live TV on February 29th. But I'm not sure that we're going to see the volume. I'm really not. And, you know, one GM I spoke with last week. We were just kind of casual. chatting and said that, you know, if you look at last year's deadline, Curtis Glencross got the Calgary Flames, a second and third round pick to Washington, and then at 32, he's done after that, and that no one gave him a contract. He went on a couple PTOs and he retired. And I think that we're seeing an acceleration of kind of different thinking about the way teams are built and older players in particular, which tend to be the players that are moved at the deadline, because usually

it's pending UFAs in almost every case. are ones that the teams are kind of shying away from a little bit more. So, yes, there's some of those guys out there that will still have value and will be moved, but, you know, I don't know if we're going to see quite as many as in the past. And, you know, I think the salary cap, too, is just a hard one to ignore. I mean, it's a factor in every discussion on contract and the Stephen Stamco situation. And, you know, even when you think of when, when Kane and Taves did their deals for 10 and a half million, And at that point, we were all thinking the cap was going to jump to $80,90 million in short order.

And the brakes have kind of been put on it in the two years since. So I think with all these sort of different factors swirling, it's a tougher landscape for the GMs to make deals. But, you know, there'll still be some because, you know, in some markets, just getting into the playoffs is reward enough and is what the goal is. And, you know, you'll see some of those bubble teams add players as a result. I mean, one, for example, I keep hearing that Arizona is going to be in the market to add pieces, which, you know, let's face it, they started the year. at a position where they were hoping for Austin Matthews, the local kid, and they've

exceeded some expectations, I guess, by staying in the playoff race. But, you know, reasonably looking at their team, they're not built to win at this point. But, you know, it sounds like they're probably going to be the one of the ones looking to try to add a couple pieces and get into the playoffs now that they find themselves here at this point in the season. Well,

and on the other than the spectrum, it's interesting that you brought up the Glen Cross comparison because the flames traded away a guy like that and still wound up making the playoffs. and winning a playoff series, and it didn't wind up costing them in any way there. And they extracted value from Glencross, of course, by getting, I think, a couple picks from him.

And when I look at a team like the Hurricanes, who I mentioned earlier, it's fascinating because they have guys like Eric Stahl and Christopher Stieg and some of these impending free agents that they really should be trading, but they also have a young team, and they're trying to kind of, I know their attendances at an all-time low,

and they definitely benefit from making a late playoff push here, but I feel like there's an opening just because of how few true self-exempts. there are to still make moves like that where you recoup picks and prospects and young players for some of these aging veterans that are going to be free agents and still not necessarily submarining your chances in the playoffs. Yeah, and then the stall decision in particular is fascinating because he's kind of been the heart and soul of their franchise since, you know, basically the lockout that wiped out

the entire season. And, you know, it's complicated because his brother's there. It's complicated because he has a no-move clause. and it's complicated now because they look like a pretty good team, certainly a team on their eyes, and one that, you know, if they got in the playoffs at this point, I don't think there'd be that much surprise around the league. I mean, they've opened a lot of eyes with their blue line in particular.

And, you know, some of these guys, it's not just the Noah Hannafins or Justin Falks. I mean, Brett Pessie and these guys have shown themselves to be pretty good players in their own right. And, you know, you're right. They're at a bit of a crossroads there. And I'll tell you, even just being around the hurricanes yesterday, everyone you ask about Stahl, it's like a literal, I don't know. Like I really sense that nobody truly knows except for Eric Stahl and maybe his wife about how he's feeling about it, but he's going to have a large say in that process.

And, you know, I do believe if he's willing to be moved, that they would move him, even if they're in that situation, just for the reasons you mentioned. I think that you kind of have to turn the page eventually. And, you know, it might not be the worst thing for him. But it's, again, it's very, that one's a complex decision. and I think it's a difficult spot for Ron Francis in trying to chart a way forward because, you know, getting in the playoffs now would have some value, I think, and, you know, exposing some of these young guys that you think are going to build a decent core down the line to meaningful games. And that experience is good. And look at the market they play.

Right. I think they're the lowest attendance right now in the league. And, you know, there's obviously the team's up for sale. There's been questions about whether they'll stay there. I mean, there's kind of the financial pressures that don't exist for every organization, depending on their wealth. But in Raleigh, those are very real questions. And, you know, I think Ron Francis is probably under as much fire almost as anybody at the deadline to,

about, you know, what decisions he makes and sort of the reasoning behind what he does. Yeah, no, for sure. All right, Chris, thanks for taking the time, man. It was a lot of fun. Hopefully we'll be able to get you back maybe sometime the week before the trade-down or whatnot. I mean, kind of preview it and go from there. Yeah, that'll be great. I think we'll have a clearer sense of where everything's at.

I find now when I'm bugging people around the league, they're still saying it sucks. It's three weeks away. We don't know. We could win five or lose five, and that might change what they think. Whereas when we get in those couple days before the 29th, I think we'll have a better sense of where things are going.

Yeah, for sure, man. Okay, well, we'll talk then. All right. Thank you. The HockeyPedioCast, online at hawkipedocast.com. Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter at Dim Filippovich and at Travis Yost.