The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 57: We Have Until 2022 To Figure This Out

Episode Date: February 10, 2016

We discuss the NHL's laundry list of unconscionable missteps this year, which has most recently been capped off by a horribly executed in-season adjustment to the GameCentre Live viewing experience. We also sink our teeth into the 9-player trade between the Ottawa Senators and Toronto Maple Leafs, and break down the Dustin Byfuglien extension with the Jets. Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show (www.hockeypdocast.com/donate). There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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I'm hanging in there, but you should tell the people, you should apologize to the people, because there were a lot of Twitter folk who were aggrieved with the weak layoff. And tell them right now, this was not me to blame. Yeah, it wasn't you to blame. That's for sure. I was on vacation. I don't know whether, like, we should be humbled or a little worried about our audience, but like there were a lot of people who when I got back our mentions were just overflowing with people being like where's the podcast where's Dimitri?

Like I feel like we're like a day away from them putting together a search party to get things really going. Yeah, um, they were, they were crawling for you. I told them the only thing they got a break from with the, uh, the police sirens in the back. So I was waiting. I just told listeners,

I was waiting for you to finish up some errands around the house before we got going. And like right before you called me, I swear like three straight ambulances like pulled up past my place. So we've won it for now. Yeah, let's not waste any time, though, because I feel like we have to cover so much. I'm such a little window here. Okay, so we'll get to the Bufflin extension and sends Leafs trade in just a second. But there's a few things that we wanted to kind of hash out before we get to that kind of trending news.

Since it's been a few weeks since we've talked, so I don't know. Do you watch the All-Star game at all? I actually did watch. Surprisingly, I did watch it, and it was significantly better. better than I thought. So kudos to the NHL for getting that part, right? Well, I saw that the, the NHL, of course, was tried to take a little credit for it. Like, like they actually intentionally kind of stumble into a gem there. So I'm not talking about the John Scott thing. I'm talking purely three-on-three overtime.

That format, I was surprised that it worked. And the reason why it worked is, maybe I should have thought of this, didn't realize it. But, like, when there are less people on the ice, the whole five-on-five thing, the All-Star game, it's like everyone knows there's four other guys, loafing around the ice. So you feel like our responsibility to also loaf around the ice. But with three on three, there's just like literally, there's literally six people skating on the ice. And if you're not playing, it becomes so noticeable. I think that had some positive impact. Like, there were guys who were legitimately, I don't know, 70% skating. And I think that's ultimately all you can help for, but it worked that well. John Scott excluded, obviously.

Yeah, I didn't watch any of it, but I heard it was actually pretty entertaining. So, yeah, so yes, the thing that it did kill me was the NHL trying to take credit for the John Scott situation which I mean look everyone the fans built this up into a great thing it worked out really well for John Scott his family the fans the guy scored I it was probably like I don't want to put this up there but it was an iconic at least it was in an iconic iconic all-star game moment so I do like though how like some people reacted to me like oh the NHL's not trying to take credit for this Meanwhile, as they're saying that to me, I hear that John Scott's helmet and everything are going to the Hall of Fame. And I'm like, yeah, the NHL, this is the classic case of they finally realized which way the wind was blowing.

So then, of course, they piggybacked on to it. Of course, this all developed at like the end of the game because he wasn't even on the list for MVP voting and people write in vote him in. So it was an interesting, it was an interesting day. I did watch it unlike I did not expect to. But for the most part, I would say positive. Well, I mean, it's just another kind of thing that you can add to the laundry list of embarrassing kind of handlings of the NHL this season, right? Like, it started off in the summer with just how they were pretty much blissfully ignoring all the Patrick A and stuff. And then there's this all the whole John Scott fiasco.

And then most recently, I don't know we've talked about it in the show between you and I, but the Dennis Wydenin incident where it just like, it blows my mind that considering how much time you and I have spent on this podcast discussing the Colin Campbell emails and the lawsuits and everything that's kind of happening happening in the. the in the background while the season's going on. And, you know, Dennis Widman pretty clearly there's like some, at least some form of concussion symptoms involved there right after that incident. And they're just like totally ignoring it. Like nothing really happened. And it just, I guess it's status quo with NHL. Well, the, really, the, the story took an interesting turn when, so it wasn't even when Wyden said that he was feeling losey or something. And then he connected with the referee. And we knew that that was going to be his defense from like, basically, basically the day after the hit.

But it was interesting to hear in the follow-ups that concussion spotters who apparently exist, actually someone had, so I had no idea they existed. And I basically said serious question two weeks ago. I floated out. I was like, do these people even exist? And three people, all who work for teams in varying positions, basically told me, yes, they do. Within like a five-minute span.

So I was like, okay, well, at least they do exist. But it was definitely the second part of the question was, what kind of impact do they actually have? And that's really been my main concern. And the answer, of course, is they have zero impact, right? So apparently in this situation, the concussion spotters saw that Wyden was obviously, for lack of better word, traumatized by that collision. And he was exhibiting signs. And when he got back to the bench, I guess at some interval or at some point, they wanted him checked out. And Wadman refused to be checked out.

And basically, my understanding is the team obliged with Wyden's request, which that's ultimately the biggest thing by miles. It spans way above and beyond what actually happens with Wyden. Truthfully, I could care less if he's suspended 20 games, 10 games, 5 games. This is far more, this is much bigger. That's a better way to describe it. Because if this is an explicit case of a team ignoring. some advice, medical or otherwise, regarding the health of a player. Like, this is exactly what goes right into a concussion lawsuit and will become another exhibit

in the instant action in the instant concussion lawsuit. I would, you know, dollars to donuts, this is going to be an exhibit that a player was concussed. He refused treatment and the team obliged, which is like, you know, I do not have a medical degree. So I will not offer medical opinion on this podcast. But I do believe that this is breaking a founding or basic or guiding principle here, which is players or anyone who has experienced some degree of head trauma,

there's a grave concern that these people can make well thought out, clear and concise decisions because of their current state. And this is kind of why the concussion protocol in all leagues basically says, if you see a player exhibiting symptoms or something to that effect, They're immediately pulled out of the game and put in a protocol, and it's very cut and dry. The player can't, it's not, the player can't go through an appeal process. Like, no, I'm actually good. I'm going to keep playing.

And that's, that's really the way, way bigger development because we've suspected, and it's, I mean, it's clear as day for years that players have been playing with concussions. And I'm sure this is not the first time that a player has turned down a 15-minute window of treatment. But it is, it will be, it will be immediately pushed into the concussion lawsuit. You guarantee that. Yeah. And then obviously the wrinkle. It kind of cracks me up that Gary Bettman's going to be hearing the appeal. And he's going to interview Colin Campbell and kind of try and try and be an objective party

here and come up with a ruling on whether the suspension should be dropped or all. And like basically if that happens, he's going to have to admit that, you know, the league and the flames both messed up here and using the concussion protocol and that it's all flawed. And they need to rethink this and this and that. It's just like, does anyone really think that's even, there's even a little. remote chance that's going to happen. No. It's, and the real, the real thing to me is I almost wonder why fully understanding of the,

of the mechanisms that guide this process, at least as it pertains to if someone can basically recuse themselves from this spot. But considering what just leaked two weeks ago, right, about Colin Campbell and the emails and his explicit comments made about trainers and their medical opinions and concussions in general. This literally happened two weeks ago. You would wonder if this would be a spot where someone said whether he decided it or the league decided for him to basically step aside and say, actually, I'm not going to rule on this because at the very least it's bad optics and more likely I am not an independent party. I am also interested to see what are all he and Gary Betman and the others have in deciding

Wyden's fate. But again, it's it kind of sucks if you're Widman, but I got to be honest, it goes way above and beyond Wydenman now. And that's why I understand why Flames fans have a vested interest in hardcore hockey fans in general want to see what happens. But this is much bigger than Dennis Widman now. And it became much bigger than Dennis Wideman as soon as it was. reported that people said, hey, this guy might have a concussion. And the flames were like, do you

have a concussion? I was like, nah. And they're like, I'm good with that answer. And that was it. So that's, that's perplexing. Yeah. Okay. And then going along with this theme that we started, kind of, we opened this kind of where it was kind of how the NHL's been handling their business, how they've been messing things up. And obviously, it's kind of on like on the lower end of the scale in terms of importance. But since it applies to you and I personally. I kind of, you know, feel like this has outraged me more than anything, really, this season. And it's, it's this system they've implemented during the, during the break with the new website layout and with the new Game Center Live system. And I don't know, it's just like, it's been driving me up the wall, just how poorly thought out. And it just seems like they had

no foresight in planning this or executing it. And it just, it's been a disaster. I don't understand. I don't understand why they did it midseason. So I, I, I, I, I, I, I guess to some degree I understand that you want the product out as soon as possible because you believe it's an upgrade. And again, I even said this before it was released. MLB TV is really good. NHL Game Center obviously is atrocious. So I envision, and I still do, that the end product will be a significant upgrade to what NHL Game Center offered. The problem is they, for a variety of reasons, were not ready to have.

handle the load capacity. They were not ready to handle the demand. They rolled it out in the middle of the season instead of, I guess, testing it in the offseason and maybe rolling it out. Pre-season preliminary during preseason intervals, which is what I would have done. I think that they were just trying to get a product out the door and it collapsed on them. The only thing that kills me, though, is the feedback that some people were getting. So I didn't reach out to like the actual support line, but I understand a lot of people contacted like their official support thing, and they were spending hours and hours on the phone or through email communications with this company trying to fix their problems.

And these problems span days. It wasn't just like a one game. I missed the game. You know, tough luck. What I've seen is that the NHL at the very least, they're offering, if you remember, it was like a free game of the week that they were going to, basically promo is part of their NHO. Oh, was it a rival?

Was it a rivalry game? Was it a rivalry game? Probably. But if you've noticed, and this is something I caught yesterday, I don't know if it's still effective, because I have the package and I have NHL centerized, so it doesn't really phase me one way or another. But I noticed that they have mentioned a free game of the day now. I wonder if that's kind of a piece offering as a way to kind of smooth over how bad this went. But yeah, the NHL TV package was bad, and it was bad for a number of days. And I understand some people, people are still having issues because it's not compatible with whatever system they watch through, whether it's the Roku box or the PS4 or whatever. And I also understand that everyone is complaining about the website. And look, I have one thing to those people to say. I don't use the website. I mean, there's no reason to go on that website. It's terrible.

It always was terrible. Any information you're looking for can be found independent property website. And if you're like just curious about like the actual hard data for the shift charts or for for the event reports. There are direct links from websites that will take you right to that game. So you literally do not need to navigate through NHL.com. I think it's a nice time on ice. There's a couple other sites you can navigate right there and they'll give you the direct

link. Yeah, but the hilarious thing to me is the one thing that I did use that site for was kind of being able to sort by dates in terms of records and stuff like that for teams. And they just like for some reason decided that was way too useful. Obviously they needed on their own website. Well, they've also I'm not, I promise I'm not doing this again But because people were complaining about the site

I had checked it out to see what was going on And I looked at the I don't know why I looked at their face off data And there's like I don't know I didn't go to page two Because I just knew it was so comedy That I didn't even want to But page one had a list of wingers

Who had taken faceoffs And boy, they are like 85 to 90% on the draw in the offensive zone, and they haven't won a single defensive zone face-off. Patrick Kane, Shane Dane, Neilah Malik, all these guys. They're like, it's amazing. They're like 990 in the offensive zone collectively in draws.

And then in the defensive zone, they haven't won one in 53 games as like a 50-man group. I'm sure that date is correct. Sounds about right. Yeah, I mean, I really don't want to be taking the position of kind of yearning for the old game center live format because like the 90-second. and delay and the blackouts and the skipping on occasion was obviously all horrible, but like just using

the system right now, I mean, the most egregious part to me is that, uh, I can, I mean, speaking for myself personally, I know there's many other kind of segment of, of whether it's bloggers or, or fans or whatever, that paid specifically for the product, thinking that they'd be able to use their archived system and go back and watch old games to track it and whatnot. And now they've made that unavailable. And apparently from what I've seen there, there's no plan to kind of restore that anytime soon. And I don't know, it just blows my mind because there were so many people doing kind of innovative, great things with that information, and instead they've just completely squashed it for no apparent reason.

Well, so I am hopeful that that rectified. I'm hopeful that they will restore that. But I'll add to that because that is, I think, a terrible, I don't know what I call it a feature, a non-feature, I guess. But how about this? And this is something I noticed. So primarily I use NHO Game Center for two things. I want to go back and track games on my computer or I'm not at home, but there are games that I want to watch.

So I'll watch via cell phone, right? So I feel like that probably is a commonality for a lot of people. The NHL TV app for your phone does not have fast forward or rewind or any feature. It's literally you click a game and you play and that is all you can do. But yeah, you can get to the stats page. Great feature. Fantastic. Great feature. Unbelievable feature they've got there. So no fast forward, no rewind, but I could see that

Shane Don is a 100% face-off guy in the offensive zone. Yeah, that's good. Well, listen, man, I think the good thing is that Gary Bedman has until 20-22 at least of kind of iron this stuff out and figure it out, and hopefully we'll get there eventually. Anyways, let's just move on. I feel like I could just go on for like an hour about this stuff. It's also infuriating, but they just know that they have us hookline and synchron. They can pretty much get away with anything at this point. So we're in fairness. I did say they got the All-Star game format right, but too much surprise. Fantastic. Yeah.

Yeah. Great. How long did it take them to actually like institute the three-on-three though? After years of people clamoring for it. Yeah. Yeah. They're always, the NFL's slogan should be day late, dollar short. And they broider that wherever they want to.

Yeah. All right. Let's get into, uh, let's get into the news. So let's do the trade first. I guess the big piece was Dionne Fun of moving to the senator. let's go, let's go instead of saying, okay, who won the trade? Let's break it down for each of each of the two teams and let's start with the senators. Well, so Ottawa's perspective here is plain as day, which is their blue line is a train wreck.

And there was an obvious need for a top four defenseman. And though I am suspicious that Dionne Finoff, first of all, I think Dionne Finoff is not nearly as good as the defensemen that Ottawa thinks they're getting. Right. But by that same breath, I am not as pessimistic as some of the stat-driven, some of the other stat-driven people, I would say. The consensus around Fennuf from the people I talk to is that maybe he's, you know, anywhere from a three to a five even. And I probably, at this point in his career, I probably lean towards the three end of that. I definitely think he is a second- pairing defenseman at this point in his career. the most interesting question with Ottawa is, so apparently they're going to play him with Cody

CC and they think this is what's going to remediate their depth issues by restoring their second pairing there. But I don't think a finity pairing is going to work at all because I don't think Cody Cici is very good. My whole thing about this is I know you wanted to create some balance by way of this trade, but now that you've got them, I know they're going to roll FNFCC for an extended period of time, and I don't think it's going to work. But I would be really curious to see him play with Eric Carlson because I went through Eric Carlson's paramedes. And you can go down the list. I tweeted it out yesterday if anyone's curious. Two-thirds of his time has been spent playing with guys like Jared Cowan, Mark Borvietzky, Chris Phillips, David Hale, Andre Benoit.

You know, I'm not even making these, Matt Karkner. I'm not making these names up. These are the guys that he has played two-thirds of his career with. So, it is, I think he would be the best player that Eric Carlson's played with. I think they could, in the best case scenario, create a very top heavy team that could compete for a playoff spot. But more likely, I think this is chasing a, just chasing period, right? Like I, they are last check in there are what, 7% to make the playoffs. I don't think Dionne Finoff is going to cover that gap.

Yeah, it's rough because, I mean, looking at it right now, there's basically seven teams competing for those two wild. card spots. And I mean, even the flyers are just a point behind them with like two games in hand, right? So it's like it's best case scenario they're going to kind of sneak into the playoffs. And you're right. I don't know how much Phenof is going to move the needle. I mean, you personally like the methought Carlson pairing though, don't you? I do. But the, so the thing about that is I feel like I, I feel like I'm very much an insider. This is like the third time I'm saying on the podcast, people have told me. But yes, people have told me with, with Mark methought that he is really banged up.

And I don't think that's too much of a hot story because he's been in and out of the lineup pretty frequently. But my understanding is that he's laboring quite a bit. And if that's the case, then if you're talking about a 60% Mark Muthathad with an Eric Carlson versus a healthy Dionnevonov on Eric Carlson, that kind of changes the dynamic. So yes, I do think that pairing ultimately works. But at least for the extended time, if Mark Mothad is really hard and really laboring, and this is going to be a thing that, I don't know, spans the next 15, 20. 25 games, Deon Finoff, I would like to see get a shot up top because I think at least at the very least they could become a six-man group in that top rotation where they look very good. And their depth is still going to be terrible.

But at least when that group is on the ice, they should be. And I will say they should be very good when you have guys like Stone and Hoffman and Taurus and Carlson Finoff out there. That's a very good group. It's just everything else is kind of terrible. Yeah, I mean, when this trade initially got announced, I mean, at first blush, I thought it was kind of a disaster. And then as I've thought about it, I definitely understand, like, where the centers are coming from with this because they're basically turning a bunch of spare parts into Dionne Finov, who's pretty clearly the best player in the deal. And the replacement value, as you said, just putting him into the lineup instead of some of those other defensemen they've been trotting out there is a massive upgrade.

But like, the question for me is, is what does it really accomplish for them? Like, what's the end goal? And I think I know the answer to that question. It's try and sneak into the playoffs and make some playoffs. Correct. And I don't know. Like, I understand that I have talked to some people in the league as well. I'm pulling a line from your script there where, like, I think some people don't necessarily understand that how much there is to gain financially from making the playoffs in that regard.

Like even if you get those two guaranteed home games, you're not paying the players to play those games. So you're pocketing quite a nice, nice chunk of change there for yourself. and for Eugene Melnick and the senators, I'm sure that's a pretty desirable kind of option. But it just like, it seems like a flawed way to run your business because I don't think anyone thinks that if the senators get into their playoffs,

they're suddenly going to get hot and, you know, win a couple series and potentially make things interesting. Like, it's just such a short-sighted move. So their mantra for at least the last four or five years, really since the budget has become an overwhelming, overarching part of everything they do, has become, yeah, we're going to try and sneak into the playoffs and see what happens.

And I can't tell you how many times that the reference has been made to, yeah, well, the LA Kings 2011-2012. And it's like, all right, stop playing with me. You can't be serious about this. But that is very much the thing. The idea is to not spend as much as possible and try and get into the playoffs. And they genuinely, I don't want to say they because I don't know who specifically, but there is a thought in that organization in that if you do get into the playoffs,

anything can happen. Meanwhile, we watch Chicago and L.A. Buzz saw every team, every year. Same story. I concede that playoff are a bit, coin, flippy with certain matchups, but a crappy team is never going to win the Stanley Cup. And that's what they're trying to opine, that these seven, eight teams that aren't very good. That's the important clarifier there. Right. That these teams can win three or four series in a row is laughable. Yeah, you can maybe pull off a big upset in one series, maybe even two. But, you know, you can. your runway is going to run out, and even then the probability of that happening is pretty small. So, yeah, I do have to say, though, I think the funniest part of this trade was reading the three or four, you know, local media guys with the back and forth, like, man, Toronto killed this deal. And guess what? If they rehabilitate Jared Cowan, and I'm like, they clearly, clearly do not know what kind of player they're getting here. I would, we talked about this a few weeks ago about Vinie La Calier, and I was like, I'm pretty sure he's toast.

You know, he actually has not played well, but he's kind of got this hot scoring stretch. I wouldn't be more surprised if Jared Cowan developed into any kind of defensemen, more than even what we talked about with Vinnie LaCavalier long term. So that is, I don't have the idea or belief that the Maple Leafs traded for him. For any other reason, other than there's that cap credit and they had to take the contract and moved enough. Yeah, no, I definitely saw that where people were like, hmm, maybe Babcock can work some of his magic and turn him into. I'm just like, stop. No, we've all seen enough with Jared

Kyle and he's like 25 at this point with however many NHL games under his belt. Like, it's just not happening. It's one of those things where it's not even kind of comical to watch him at this point. It's just sad. It literally makes me just sad to watch him play hockey. And I just, it's not going to happen for him. So to be fair, though, I mean, our friend of the podcast, Frank Sarvelli, has been all over that story where his contract is unique in the sense that there are like, I think six or seven teams out there that could benefit from from trading for him and buying them out this summer and and that you know Toronto's in that kind of asset collection business and they're probably going to get like what like a sixth round or seventh round pick some like that for what for him so it's not it's nothing it's a wash but I think let's let me interject here because let me remind you that there was talk like legitimate talk that like a year or so ago they could have gotten a first or second round pick for Jericho on so So this is, let this be a lesson, let this be a unbelievable lesson in, yes, you can hold on for an asset too long. This is a textbook example of this.

But I did want to ask you your thoughts on one thing, because I was talking to a couple people about this, and I found it interesting from Toronto's perspective, kind of jumping gears here. Milamahalik's inclusion to this deal is curious, because while I concede that his contract is a bit murky, I think he could still play. And I think he is a, I think he's earmarked for a flip before the trade deadline. Like, Toronto can't hold on to him, right? No. Well, okay, so you read that Ian Mendez post, right?

Where he basically says, there's like one line in there and it's sneaky and he goes, initially, Emilian McHolic said no, he didn't want to waive as no trade clause. And then the, the senator's brass spent the next 48 hours convincing him. Like, how did they, how did they convince him? Like, I kind of want to know more about that. What was said there? It's like, come on, come on. You got to do it, Melan, you got to do it.

Come on. And eventually he's like, okay, fine, I'm going to do it. Like, well, how did they convince him? I assume that this is me throwing a total dart, but I assume part of it was, look, we don't think Toronto's going to keep you. So be a good soldier in the room and wait for the inevitable trade to a contender because that's your inevitable route. But look, if I was Milamah, I would have said, how about you just trade me to a contender

instead of the Maple Leafs, right? Well, he's injured right? currently, right? Yeah. Big up to Milo, though. He's had a good career. He's kind of been sidetracked for years with unbelievable luck with poor luck, I should say, with injuries and he's been banged up.

But you know what? He's one of those guys where even though the injuries have slowed his game down, like he hasn't washed out of the league because of it. He's still pretty functional. Like maybe he's not worth the contract he signed to. But he seems like the type of player, not to get all locker roomy. He seems like the type of player you would want on a good deal. team because he's functional and he can play on your third and fourth lines and he can float up

if necessary and he doesn't make a lot of defensive zone mistakes. I think Dave Cameron actually at one point in the season said he was the player he trusts most in his lineup and I don't know he's number one, but he would probably be up the list if you're talking about guys who play a responsible game and aren't going to kill you with that big brutal defensive zone turnover. So I do think if he's looking for upside in this, I do think he will be traded again. and I'm sure at least one team will find a spot for him and a roster spot and maybe he can chase down the Stanley Cup. Yeah.

No, I've always been a fan of his game. Obviously, the question is, can he string together enough games to kind of make a difference for anyone? And I'm still skeptical of that can happen. But if I was a contender, you know, for peanuts, I definitely rolled a dice there that you could come in and help out. You mentioned kind of flipping him from the Leaps perspective for whatever assets. And it's interesting because kind of taking up most of the,

the storylines, the season's been like, okay, guys like Parentho and Boys and Grabner and those guys that they brought in hoping to flip them at the deadline for future assets, whereas kind of subtly, I love what they did with Finoff in the sense that they drastically just changed his minutes, right? And no one was really talking about it much, but they gave him way cashier deployment and they played him next to a shot suppressor and Jake Gardner, who's pretty much the antithesis of Cody Cici. And voila, of course, he looks better in this light. And I'm sure that that's one of the main reasons why they were able to make this trade with the senators because his numbers do look a lot better than they would have otherwise. And I still think Finoff, as you said, is probably

like a three or four, but it's one of those things where it's going to be hard for him to ever be discussed in any rational way just because of that contract he has. Yeah. And that's really the big picture here. The financial part of it was Toronto was dumping. You know, they were biting short-term bullets to trade off a long term as Ottawa was okay clearing contracts they're willing to swall a poison pill down the road and I guess from a financial

perspective it kind of makes sense from both both sides but I still think Ottawa's obviously I think they're punting a fair bit on this notion that like I you could tell it was well it works for both sides financially and it's like sort of like I get that it works

I get it works it works short and long term for Toronto. That's the difference. It only works short term for Ottawa. It doesn't work long term for Ottawa. And while I do think they can get a couple of good years, or at least decent years, at the very least, from the ups and up, it's like that contract, even if it's still, even if it is backdiving, which it is. So they're going to pay less out in real dollars towards the end of his deal. I mean, you're still talking about a 33, 33, 34, 35 year old guy with a cap hit higher than Eric Carlson. Like, this is not a, this is not an a plus is an expected value move here long term. And the other part of that is

where is his ultimately where is his game going to be a few years from now? Because he has a ton of miles on that body. Yeah. No, that's true. That's true. And I guess the real question is so Toronto saves what, 20 million or so moving forward in terms

of tied up money. And I guess what are they going to do with that money? I mean, they do have an opening for a captain right now, so I hear. Oh, Tommy. So anyways, we're not going to talk about Samco's right now. Let's just move on. To Bozac. Let's talk about Bozac.

Oh, God. Yeah, I think we did that, we did that trade justice. Let's do the, let's do the Buffalo extension. Okay. I think you're going to say Buffalo because when you said Buffalo. Oh, my God. I saw you on Twitter today. Let's not, let's not do that. No. What do you? I mean, I'm not getting to do it, but this guy is. That guy's a parody account, right? Like, there's no way that's a real person. All right. I rarely, I have to say, my ultimate, my, on the top of my list,

of things that I think are just unbelievably laughable is the notion that a local media guy who goes to the one game, the 41 home games that his team's at and maybe some of the road games and writes for a newspaper, watches more hockey than I do. I mean, that is just,

that is the highest echelon of comedy because these guys also have wives and families to take care of. And meanwhile, I'm punching the clock at, you know, 7 o'clock and watch it through the night. But let's, yeah, let's move away from the Buffalo News and move towards the Buffalo News. You like that segue? Yeah, man.

One final point of that. I mean, me and you literally did like, what, 45 minutes ranking the 30 different broadcast teams. Well, I guess. I don't watch any of these broadcasts. I just guess that's not. Of course. That's on our spreadsheets. Of course.

We have a number system that kind of sorts it out for us. Anyways, okay, the Buffalo extension. So it's five years, seven, seven point six mil per. It's important to note that the final year, I think he's only making like six million or something like that. And he's going to be 36 years old by the time the deal's up, I believe. So I don't know, listen, I know it's not a completely scorching take here, but I think it's a pretty reasonable deal for both sides where the jets are obviously kind of paying a little

bit extra up front on the AAV to avoid giving him those sixth, seventh, eighth years. And Bufflin's going to be rewarded handsomely for those five seasons. so I think it's a win-win. I think you're understanding it from one of the next percent. I think this is a more move, probably with a Winnipeg Jets. I think that deal is unreasonable. The number of defensemen who have outplayed Dustin Bufflin in the last couple of years, you can probably count on one hand.

I don't know if you can count them on two hands, right? So you're talking, he's in this top, I don't know, whatever you want to call it, 6, 7, 8, 9 group in the league, a $7 million cap hit for a guy who you are confident is at least one of the 10 best defenders in the league. I think that's pretty damn reasonable. And yes, as we echo with every one of these contracts where a guy signs when he's 30, he will look different at 34 and 35. But I think the purchasing of the years now, I think they are going to get that value in then some.

And ultimately, I also think they made the right move here as it pertains to Dustin Bufflin and Andrew Ladd. If you remember one year ago, this was, and we even talked about it on this podcast when we talked about Winnipeg was there was a theme or a consensus that they were going to really push towards signing Andrew Ladd first. And I wonder how much of it was Andrew Ladd going through this kind of tricky shooting slump to start the year. And the points haven't materialized as well as they have maybe in years past. But like, here's day, who the more valuable player was now and going forward. and again, I echo this many, many times. I really like Andrew Ladd. I think he is like one of those

prototypical players that you find out of a Stanley Cup team, but I don't think he's better than Dustin Bufflin. And Dustin Bufflins are also very, very hard to find around the league. So I think also the investment of where they put their money is also notable. That doesn't mean they can't still resign Andrew Ladd, but they made their priority clear here, and I think they made the right move. Yeah, no, for sure. And so I feel like Lad's going to be one of the kind of biggest names

is going to be rumored and eventually moved to the deadline. And the second follow-up to that kind of stemming from this extension for me is, like, what are they going to do with Jacob Truba right now, right? Because they have a bunch of money tied up to Bufflin, Enstrom, and Myers for the next handful of years. And I don't know. I think now it's tough because Truba does have so much upside. And he's kind of shown this ceiling that I think the guy that I'm going to mention they could

possibly trade him for doesn't necessarily have. But Travis Hammondick is also a person we've discussed in terms of he's expressed interest in playing for the Jets, potentially being moved this summer, I guess. And he's very cost control. I think he makes like under $4 million until 2020 or something like that. So I wonder if a trade like that makes a lot more sense for them now that they would kind of appreciate having a more cost control cheaper option back there. Yeah. The curious thing about that, I read this and you can correct me if I'm wrong because I read it pretty quick.

but it sounded like there was a credible story that the Jets may favor Tyler Myers on that side. And that actually Jacob Truba was potentially the odd man out in a theoretical trade. And usually that's not what we see. Usually we see the reverse of that. I guess the question, and this has been the question with Tyler Myers for years as well, how good is he? Like, is he terrible? Is he okay? And I, you know, this was a question, that range was very much applicable when he was in Buffalo.

I think we've mostly settled on, yeah, he's okay. But I do wonder if they are cool. I don't think it is much to do with Myers. I think they are cooling a bit on Trubon. Do you think that's fair? Well, I think it is. I mean, he's had sort of a rough year. And obviously a lot of that has to do with the fact that I think his most common partner has been Mark Stewart.

And I think also I remember Friedman wrote about this and his 30 thoughts a while back where the numbers that Trubber camp is asking for are apparently pretty ridiculous and you know when the negotiations you never know of course this camp's going to ask for a lot of money and they'll potentially meet somewhere in the middle but it does strike me as a potential where they just might want to kind of avoid having to deal with that headache and instead they'd take a guy like hammondack who they know what they're going to get yeah um and then if that if they can make that kind of rotation work plus they have buffling coming back you know i i mentioned this last week too i wrote about this last week but I think you can make a fair argument that Winnipeg is still the best team in Canada,

hockey-wise. Like, they kind of got screwed playing in the division this year. They also haven't had a very good season. But, like, I genuinely don't see a bad hockey team there. I see a team that's punching up in the division. So maybe you can say, yeah, they've taken a step back since last year. But, I mean, compared to, let's just go through the list. Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, they are no doubt better than all three of those teams.

Combined, right? If those three teams put all their best players together, I think, Winnipeg still might be better. Well, Vancouver would have two players on the entire roster. But other than that, they're definitely better than Toronto. I feel pretty comfortable saying they're better than Ottawa. Montreal would really be the only question. And then it's really a with or without carry price.

Is Carrie Price in my lineup or not? That's a huge difference between the two. But I think it's important to frame it that way because as much as Winnipeg sees, wow, we are struggling this year. It's kind of relative. And I bring that up because I genuinely think if they were in the Atlantic, they'd probably, I don't know, third, fourth, fifth in the division in that group very much in playoff potential, whereas right now they are looking way up.

Well, especially if they're not going to have to burn a bunch of games using Andre Pavlik moving forward, right? Like if it's just going to ride kind of Halliboy, I feel like that's going to make a pretty big difference. Yeah. So I'm actually curious to see where the goaltending starts go for this team too, especially if their incentive is to lose. Oh my God. we can't say that.

Their incentive might be to lose. Oh, no. I know we can't say that. It's sportsman-like, but in reality, you may very well be looking at that. And what better way to sandbag your team than starting a bad goaltender? But I still don't know if Winnipeg realizes he's bad yet. So that's the other tricky part. I think it's one of those things where everyone's in on the secret, but everyone's kind of whispering around them and they haven't necessarily heard.

Heard the stories yet. Oh, my God. All right, man, I think that's going to be it. Is there anything else we miss that we should frequent, like we should get around to right now? I feel like we've given enough here. So wait, let me just ask you, you said we weren't going to do who won or lost the Toronto Ottawa trades?

Who won that trade? Now I'm curious. Toronto won in the sense that I just think that, as you said, right, like it makes sense for them now and moving forward, whereas Ottawa definitely improved as opposed to where they were before this trade happened. But there's a lot of potential there for that completely backfire on him. So do you think how much of this trade was driven by the financials of the Nuffe's deal and concern about where that deal's going versus Toronto maybe thinking he's not as good as people think around the week? because I do feel that a lot of people are focusing on the financials, ourselves included,

and that's understandably so. But I don't know, and this is just me speaking out loud, but I kind of get the sense that maybe they are cooling or cool on FNFNF, relative to many of the other teams around the league, and they kind of saw an opportunity here. I think it's, yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. I mean, there's no doubt that they're a pretty smart organization, and they definitely realize that he's not worth what he's making,

and he's not a top-paring defense. I mean, they've shown that by the way they've used him this season. So I think that that much is clear. But I think the even more interesting question for me, and I'll pose this to you, is the senators were obviously not on Funof's list of teams he wouldn't accept the trade to. And do you think that might have,

I think there's any possibility that that might have been a miscalculation on his part where he was like, well, they're not going to move me to a division rival here. And he just like didn't even bother putting them on the list. Yeah. So the division rival thing, I've heard like, and we've read about this too,

that agents give that piece of advice when players have limited no trade calls because it's like a double bullet. You don't have to use it on that team because you don't think the GM's going to trade you in division. But one, first off, I think the non-trading in division thing is so ridiculous. Like if you are winning the deal,

you make the trade in the division because it hurts your team. It hurts your opposition. Well, particularly in this case where if you think like, okay, when we want to be good three years from now, if one knows contract is going to kill them, right? Like, it would just make so much sense to actually give them that point. is in pill, as you said. Yep. So that's one part of it. But I also, I also wonder if when Deonford

made this list, he was like, well, you know, if they trade me to Otto, at least I'll play with the best offenseman in the world. And it's like, no, he's not getting that either. Apparently, he's, oh, yeah, you're going to get to play with the best defenseman in the world. His name is Cody Cici. Yeah, there you go. Enjoy that, enjoy that rotation. So that, I wonder if also that was a part of it, too. I'm not sure which is what, but I'm sure a lot of thought that goes into creating these lists. And maybe it's also just like, I don't know, he's comfortable around that eastern Canada area. And he was okay with that. I don't know.

All right. I think that's going to be it for today. Hey, when we were right before we started, I guess not before we started recording, earlier today after the trade happened, I saw a bunch of people that listened to the show going like, oh, my God, we need an emergency pediocast to break this trade down and whatnot. And it got me thinking about what we're going to do for the trade deadline day festivities. Do you want to like do some sort of mega show or something like that? So here is TSN going to have you doing like a live blog or something like that? No, TSN will have me on Twitter making sarcastic remarks about every trade and every signing.

And I can be the guy who no matter what trade happens, I'll say it's bad. Oh, that deal is not good. That deal's not good. That deal is not good. No, we'll have to hash out those plans once the date gets closer. My schedule literally changes like 24 hours before, as you know. So it's very much on the floor. fly. So maybe we'll squeeze that in. If not, you might have to chase down one of a laundry

list of people who are more influential and probably more knowledgeable about that subject area than myself. If this particular show has taught us anything, it's that you have a lot of insider sources in the league. Yeah, I ripped off three of them in one shot. So I feel like McKenzie right now. Yeah, great. All right, man. We'll be back with the show in a few days. So until then, Travis, have fun, man. All right, man, take care. The Hockey PDOCast, online at HockeyPedocast.com. Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter at Dim Filippovich and at Travis Yost.