The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 58: Do It However You Like, Just Stop The Puck

Episode Date: February 11, 2016

Jamie McLennan makes his triumphant return to the show to discuss his preliminary Vezina trophy ballot, Petr Mrazek's ascension to being one of the league's best goaltenders, and how guys like Corey Crawford and Marc-Andre Fleury are in a lose-lose situation. He also shares a personal Miikka Kiprusoff story about having to deal with stopping Steven Stamkos' shots, what kind of preparation he puts into the games he's doing colour commentary for, and whether he's ever almost slipped up on national TV. Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. If you’ve been enjoying the work we’ve been doing please also consider chipping in to help support the show (www.hockeypdocast.com/donate). There are a handful of housekeeping costs associated with producing the show that need to be covered, and every little bit helps. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theas, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl Defensive Inn, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and, of course, the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

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but it's been way too long since we've had him back on. It's understandable considering how highly sought after he is and all the great work he does. It's one of the OG friends of the podcast, Jamie McLennan. Jamie, what's going on, man? Not much. What's up? OG, is that mean original? Yeah, man. We've had a lot of, you know, big personalities and people who are very tied into the game

in various levels on the podcast. over the recent weeks and months. But you were the first guest we had on this show. So no one will ever be able to kind of top that. There we go. Oh, gee, I like that. I'm not up to speed of my lingo, so there we go. I'm pretty proud of that.

Yeah, I'm trying to keep you hip. Yeah. Exactly. So since it's been a while since we chatted, I mean, there's many different directions we can go. But I did want to kind of bring you on the show just because it does feel like it's sort of the year of the goaltender, right?

Like, obviously there's been a lot of discontal. about how the same percentage keeps rising from year to year. And this year in particular, we've had you on the show specifically to talk about this whole debate about how we can increase goal scoring in the league and so on and so forth. But the interesting thing to me is when we had you on last time, we discussed how I think like just the general talent around the league at the position from the bottom up is so much higher than it's ever been, right? Like there's very few backup goalies that are liabilities at this point.

It seems like any goalie, each team has two guys that they can play on any single night to give them a chance to win. And that's why the numbers have increased. But I think the cream of the crop itself, like up top, has been just remarkable. I mean, I'm looking at a guy like Petter and Marazik, for example. And the numbers he's putting up this year are just like, I don't know, can goalies put up video game numbers? Like it feels like that's equivalent. Well, I mean, Marazik is a star in the making. it's interesting. Ken Holland told me, he goes, I've got two special players kind of coming.

You know, obviously he's got Dattoon, Zediberk and all that. He's there. But he raved about Marazik and, you know, obviously the other one being Larkin. But he just said, like, these are the guys that, you know, you're, I don't know if you call them generational, but they're guys that you just go, yeah, they, when you're a general manager, when you, even when you, even when you're in player or an analyst. If you have a criteria, these guys check all the boxes. And for me, Murazik has that. I watched him at the World Juniors in Evanton. He has that cockiness flare to him. I don't know if you, I mean, back then he was dancing around in between whistles and playing it up for the crowd. Like obviously, you can't do that at the National Hockey League level. But the way he

carries himself, immediately I knew this guy had a start. mentality. Yep. And he had the confidence to back up the talent. Yeah. And once he got the, you know, he got the opportunity at the NHL level, you're like, there's, you know, there's no way that you're holding this guy back. Yeah.

And that was what was really impressive for me is I just, I think he's a guy that has, you know, a real huge ceiling in the NHL. So, yeah, you talk about, and Braden Holphe's another guy. Like, I'm very, very close with Mitch Korn, his goaltender coach. And, you know, Mitch raves about Braden just on a lot of different levels because he's just, you know, Braden's become the consummate professional. And he wants to be the guy. He wants to be a difference maker. He works his ass off and in practice doesn't like to take days off. And what's interesting for me when I look at goaltenders like that, that reminds me to Roberto

O'Wango. Louis doesn't like taking days off, which is weird because you think the body would wear down a little bit. And, you know, when I worked with Kippersoft, Krippersoff had no problem taking days off and kind of staggering his work. Whereas the other way, you know, Louis felt that he would get rusty if he took a day off or he felt like it took a little bit longer to fight back. So, you know, I look at those two right at the top right now outside of the usual cast of characters, if you call it, you know, that are always up there, the Lundquist and all of that. Like, it's just those are the two that had kind of really caught my eye as far as, I mean, Nike, uh, uh, Morazik, I mean, is a guy who's turning the corner from me because he just,

you know, this is the year he's separating himself and now you just look for consistency and more workload, uh, you know, experience. And, and Braden is, it hasn't dropped off whatsoever. And that's, that's the thing that's, that's big for me. Well, I'm glad you mentioned the, the Marzic thing about kind of sort of the personality and whatnot because I do remember those world junior tournaments where he would, uh, he would, uh, he would sell, celebrate huge saves by doing the Alexoves where he'd like jump off the boards and like bang his shoulder up against it, which was hilarious. I think he stopped a penalty shot or something and did that. I remember sitting on the panel going like, what the hell is this guy doing? And, you know,

I'll be honest, being an old school kind of traditional guy, I'm like, oh, that's not going to go over well with, you know, other teams or his teammates, because his teammates are going to be like, hey, we're going to be in a line brawl here if you pull that garbage somewhere else. So, you know, I mean, over an 82 game schedule, too, I can see it in a small tournament because you're kind of like, all right, I get it. You know, like, you know, you're pretty excited. But like, you know, are you doing it on a Monday night and, you know, in Grand Rapids, a Houston game or something?

You know, if he's playing in the minor, those are types of things. But that's a maturity level. And like I said, I have no problem with it because, you know, some people call it Stone's personality. I just think it's, I like guys who have a little bit of flair. We all, you know, we all know that hockey players are vanilla and we're born and bred to be like that. And, you know, the minute we want to see more personality out of guys, but the minute we see more personality out of guys, we bash them. Yeah, we bash them. And, you know, but I still believe within, within the reason, I guess, here's my point is, is, you know, I don't know, like I, if I, if I, if I, if I,

supported like Evander Kane with the money stacks. Like that, that's something I get that that's Blair, but, you know, I also subscribe to the fact that, you know, there's a lot of people that really work hard to make a living, and they don't want that thrown in their face. You know, that's, to me, there's a line there, but I want to hear honest opinions. I want to hear somebody say, you know, I screwed up or, you know, I'm a better player than that guy. You want to hear some of that.

And, you know, it's, but, you know, to that point of society, I don't even watch football that much, but I watch the Super Bowl and Cam Newton's pissed off and it's presser, and people are all over them about it. But, you know, you want to see emotion, but then you get, you know, people get on you for showing that emotion. So that's why I think it's a fine line. I don't know how you feel, but I think it's a fine line sometimes because that almost would scare a guy away from showing some emotion because the minute that you do are showing some. player, you get judged for it on a lot of different levels. Well, I think particularly with in-game stuff, right? Like, you have to be kind of up at a certain level,

psychologically and emotionally as a player, to be competing at that highest level, which the NHL is. And, like, you can't really expect that these guys are going to be, like, you know, world-class gentlemen and shaking hands after every single play and, you know, bidding, bidding farewell and whatnot. Like, I love to see some personality and some excitement. I mean, it's supposed to be fun. Like, I'm sure playing at the highest level in the,

world at something you've been doing your entire life is really fun. So why not kind of express yourself in that way? Yeah, it is fun. It's very nerve-wracking on a lot of different levels. So, you know, I was a guy who kind of kept, I mean, I had a lot of fun. I enjoyed myself. I joked around with a lot of people, but, you know, you also know that it's, it is a job and it's such a cutthroat, you know, business. And as it's grown and the industry, as far as financially, it's grown so much. There's so much at stake now. So I think that type of stuff is

you know, it's just, it's kind of individualistic. You know, Alex Avechkin has no problem showing personality because he can back it up and he's not going to have a problem backing up whatsoever. But, you know, if you're a, let's just take me, if you're a backup goaltender,

you play very, in a lot of rare situations, but yet you conduct yourself in a way where, you know, you have a little air or have a little chip to yourself. People are going to be like, well, why the hell do you got a chip on your shoulder? Like, you know, you're playing once and then, you know, last I checked, your numbers aren't that great. You know, that type of stuff.

So I think you have to, it comes with the personality, but it also comes with the pedigree that you can back it up. Well, and I mean, if Marzic keeps stopping 93% of the shots he faces, I'm sure he can do whatever he wants and no one's going to really quibble with it, right? You know what? I'll bring a, exactly. And I'll bring another. goaltender into the mix. Timmy Thomas. Right.

I had good friends who played for the Boston Bruins and won a cup with him. And he could do, listen, do whatever you want, be, you know, vote for whoever you want, all of that, post things on Facebook. If you stop Pucks, guys don't care. Right. Well, you're making them money, right? Exactly. But the minute that you don't, that's the thing.

And it's like, that's like it is in pro sports. if a guy's an amazing player and he's an act like a jackass, people will make excuses for him. Well, if he's eccentric, he's, he's, you know, he's kind of on his own, he's, he's, you know, he's a recluse, he doesn't make excuses for it. But the minute that the player erodes, now it's, people line up to kick him in the nuts.

And that's the thing that, you know, it's funny because, you know, the minute that Tim Thomas, you know, he takes a year off, he comes back, he's not the same, he erodes, he ends up in Dallas, you know, in Florida, he's kicking around. And he's just not, I mean, the, he struggles to find his form. People don't find his type of behavior as, I guess, I don't know, acceptable, as funny, or, you know, same thing with Brze Galloff. You know, the Bears comment and, you know, the universe and all that.

Everyone loves it. But the minute, all of a sudden, you're like, geez, this guy's not stopping bucks, and he's more concerned about making comments, it soured. And I mean, I had a couple good friends play on that team. And they were like, dude, like we just, you know, don't do media. Just shut your mouth and stop puck. That's what we want. And then outside of that, you can do whatever.

And those are the types of things. It's a fine line. So I guess my whole point with all that is do whatever you want when you're backing it up with your play. But the minute that your play struggles, you're going to have to answer kind of for it. I don't know if that's the right thing to do or society just dictates it. But that's kind of the thing that I've noticed. Yeah. Well, no, especially, yeah, if you're kind of not backing it up and you keep showing off that personality,

then everyone's going to be like, oh, this guy's a distraction to the team, like he's hampering the play and stuff like that, right? It's like, well, anyways, but it's funny you bring up Tim Thomas because I was going to kind of point out that the only goalie since 2005 to have a better 5-1-5-safe percentage in Razick this season was Tim Thomas during that cup season when they won in 2010, 2011. So, yeah, it's kind of a nice little parallel there. There you go. Yeah, I mean, he's.

He was, you look at that season, and actually I was at game seven, and I'm close friends with Greg Campbell, who played for the team in Boston. I obviously know Luchy's pretty well and a couple of the other guys, but I got tickets about 12 rows up to Tim Thomas's right in the first and third period. and I remember thinking that night they could play 12 periods and weren't going to get a pee by him he was so dialed in and I was fortunate I went to games 5 and 7 in that series

and he just I mean he was so dialed in that whole season you know it's to a point where you just get a feeling like you know they're just not going to beat this guy like there's not a and I remember them being down uh you know Boston was down in the series

and talking to some guys from Boston, not Campbell or Luchich, but other guys that were around the team and kind of with the team, and they said, you know what, we've got a feeling we got these guys. And it was weird because they were down in the series. And I'm like, well, you know, easier said than done, you know, like Louis's playing well. And it was just a weird dynamic, but they had this quiet confidence about him. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't they weren't throwing it out there. But it was because Thomas was playing so well,

they knew they could feed off that, and if they could get some, you know, get some goals past Louis, they, you know, they felt like they could win. So, you know, it ended up, you know, you talk about Tim Thomas. He was, that game, he was so aggressive and so, I mean, he was unbelievable. I couldn't believe some of the plays he made where he was 10 feet outside his blue paint when they were coming down towards him and he'd work his way back at the net. It was almost like he was like, I dare you to try and shoot and score on me. Like it was, the aura that some goaltenders carry when they're playing at the top of their game,

it was, they're literally like, I dare you to come and shoot on me because there's not a chance you're going to beat me. And then, you know, it's funny when a goaltender struggles, you can see them wear it and wear the non-confidence where, you know, they're almost thinking, geez, you know, don't get this shot away. I don't know if I can make this save. Right. You know, and that's a type of thing. That's called, you know, that's what made a guy like me. a Kipersoff so amazing to me is he never wore anything he never wore a goal against he never

wore a shot out like he just you looked at him and you couldn't tell the score of the game which is very tough to do on on some goaltenders because they you know they they they ride the emotional roller coaster throughout a game yeah yeah no for sure and so okay let's kind of spin it forward then what you mentioned a bunch of guys earlier on marasic holtby uh luong so on and so forth let's let's paint like a rough Vesna ballot here. Like who, what's your, what's your top five looking like?

Who? I mean, to put you on the spot, but, no, no, like, I mean,

you know, just, just offhand, like, um, I think Holtby, if it's chosen today, it's,

it's Holtby. Um, you know, Maraza could have to be in there. Um, I, I think Corey Schneider is a guy. I mean,

I was looking at his goal support today. Like, I think each, they're 30th. the league and scoring it, New Jersey. And he's a guy that has to play a lot of two-one games. And I think he played his 46 game last night. So I look at a lot of, see, for me, I look at games played in because, you know,

for example, I'll take it to Toronto. James Rimer's had a really good season and he's putting up some numbers, but he's played in half the games that all the other guys, all the starters are playing in. Right. Now, that's not his fault. He's been injured. and, you know, that's, I never judge a person for injury, but what I do judge is workload because, you know,

if you have a nice spaced out schedule where you're playing once a week, you could prepare for that game and you can kind of maybe get the most out of yourself. But, you know, these starters that play, you know, halfway through the season, they're already at 40 starts and 42 starts and stuff. Like they've had to play three games in four nights and back-to-back situations. and, you know, we all know how we feel during a, you know, even watching as a fan, you get a cold, you get banged, you know, these guys are banged up, they don't feel good, like it, and they're still fighting through it and playing it and, and finding a way. And for me, I think a guy like Schneider's in there. Hold on, let me think who else.

Let me help you up. So you've named three guys there. Crawford. Crawford, for sure. Yeah, Luongo. Yeah, and Louis. Those would be my five, I think, that I hope be. Obby, Schneider,

Marazick Longer and Crawford. Marzick Longer Crawford. I'm sure I'm missing. So I think, unfortunately, I thought the flower was close. He's had a couple. And it's not fair for me, Judge. Everyone's had rough patches.

He had a couple rough patches here this past week. I did one of the games. But he, in talking to people in Pittsburgh and even talking to, I talked that day to Latang, Crosby, even Jeff Satkoff, and people in the organization. and they're like flower has been ridiculous this year.

So maybe he's a close, you know, in there. I'm glad you brought up Flurry and Crawford because they're the two guys that I kind of circle back to it. And it's like, I don't think the kind of casual fan that only tunes in an occasion realizes how good both those guys have been this season because they're sort of in a lose-lose situation, right? Like they play on these teams with all these name brand star players up front. So basically, if the team wins, they're not really going to be credited for it, right?

it's going to be, oh, these guys had scored the flashy goals. But then if they lose, instantly the blame is going to be like, oh, Mark Andre Fleur, you just can't get it done in the playoffs, right? Like, it's just like, they're never really going to get the credit, but both guys have been remarkable this season. Well, with all due respect to Chris Osgood, is it the Chris Osgood syndrome that people say, nah, you know, he played on a great team, you know,

so he had goal support, he had this and that. You know, I grew up with Chris. I know him very well, and I know he was a really good pro and worked really hard at his craft. not his fault, the team that he was drafted to and won some cups with. Good on him. Cory Crawford is interesting for me because he's a guy, I guess, sometimes it looks ugly, but he gets it done.

And that's, I think sometimes when you look at players, we judge because, you know, you watch a player in the league, let's just say out, an out player, and they don't say they have a skating style that isn't as smooth. People will say, he's not a great skater. Well, you could still get there. And, you know, we find, we pull kind of the negative things instead of saying, you know, I talk to guys in Chicago all the time. They love Corey.

Corey wants to play every night. He drives on it. Joel Quinville tells me he's, you know, he's the type of guy that, like, gets mad when he's not starting type of thing. Like, he wants to be the guy. And I think he's found a level of consistency this year that wasn't there in past years. And not in playing because he's been very durable, but it's the level of, you know, some goalies get painted with a brush. Like you can, he can play great, but he gives you one bad one a night or one suspect one a night.

So you kind of get that locked into your mind where, you know, you may not watch Chicago every night, but you watch the highlights and geez, that one was not good on Corey. But, you know, he stopped 27 for 29. He's got good numbers. but yeah, I didn't like that goal and you're sitting there. And you're right. We're going to focus on Patrick Kane, Jonathan Taze, you know, and Duncan Keith and in years past it's Sharp and Hosa.

You know, so he wins. Those guys got him the goals. Yep. They lose. We look on the highlights and one of those stinkers is going in and you're like, there it is. So, yeah, I think he's found a level of consistency where you're not seeing that bad goal go in as often.

And that is, you know, has stemmed to the cost. confidence of the group, and obviously the group is playing well, and Joel's a great coach. But he's a guy that that's, he's kind of a polarizing guy. And then you're right. With Mark Andre Fleury, I think the last three years, he's been really good in regular season. But what people say is, yeah, it's regular season. Yeah. It means nothing.

Wait until he gets to the playoffs. And if you actually look at his playoff performances, his last couple, they weren't awful. They just, you know, the team, I mean, Sid's, struggled. There was a lot of different factors that went into it, but of course, we look at the goals that go by Mark, not on, not, you know, Jesus La Tang was banged up, or Malcolm did nothing, or, you know, we kind of tie that. So in our minds, I think there's that preconceived notion is, yeah, he's a good regular season goaltent. So you kind of, you, you don't give him as much respect, maybe that he has earned or has worked to get back. And I know his goaltender coach,

Mike Bales, very well. And he says, he raves about Mark on a lot of of different levels because he's a real natural athlete. He works really hard. We see, he smiles a lot in net. He has a lot of fun. He enjoys himself and the guys really love playing for him. And, you know, I think he's one of those guys that always, I don't know if, until if Pittsburgh ever did something, he'll be on the cusp of being outside that super elite

just because of a lot of, you know, preconceived notions and the fact that, you know, they haven't won anything lately in the playoffs. Yeah. No, that's totally fair. think there has been sort of a turnaround there recently, right? Like I think for a while he was sort of overrated because they did win the cup and his numbers weren't necessarily that good over that such a time. And then recently they haven't had the postseason success, but during the regular season,

he's actually been really, really solid and reliable. And it's funny to see how people have been slow to sort of adjust to that. Well, and you have to get in his respect and do. And the one thing that people forget is, yeah, he had success. He had at 09, I believe. And they were all young guys. You're sitting here sitting there saying, hey, here's a dynasty. And the minute that they don't win a Stanley Cup, it's a massive failure, a colossal breakdown, right?

And then you start to look and say, you know, maybe they weren't that good of a team. The supporting cast really wasn't that good. And, you know, I thought it, I think it was your tweet maybe today or yesterday, talked about, you know, it's amazing how star players get blamed, but the supporting cast. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that was funny and bang on, too, because, you know, it's funny how we get, we give heck to the guys who were actually the stars on the team, but, you know, we never ever talked about the fourth line or the, or the, you know, second or third pairing

defenseman who is red rotten and aren't getting the job done for the organization. And it's kind of funny. But, you know, going back to Mark, that's the, you know, that's the, I think it's a situation that, you know, he was young and won and the expectation level was high. And secondly, people forget that goaltenders, they're like a wine. They get a little bit better with age and experience. And he's a different goaltender now

than he was six years ago. He's really changed a lot of things from a technical standpoint. I think his post play is a lot stronger. He's not overactive in the net. He doesn't go chasing pucks. Like his reads are a lot better. He identifies things coming towards him.

Like I think he's grown as a goaltender. kind of like Schneider, what we've seen him. You know, you watched him, I'm sure, up close and personal in Vancouver. And, you know, everyone was like, oh, it's just a matter of time for Corey. Well, he needed that experience, and he needed to play 70 games. He needed to get all these things underneath his belt before we knew he was going to be that good. And, you know, Mark got better and has gotten better as he's gotten more experience and kind of more maturity underneath his belt.

Yeah. Well, it's one of those things also. He came up during a time where, I mean, he was obviously taken and incredibly high in the draft, right? And it's one of those things where there's a certain set of, I guess, different expectations or a different sort of pressure when you are taking that high in the draft, whereas if he came along now, like, we just don't really see goalies taking that high anymore.

And if he was a second rounder, I feel like the process of him coming along more slowly and more patiently would have been significantly different. Oh, yeah, you know, you don't jam them into your lineup at 18 or 19. And, you know, and sink or swim. I think those first couple years where it was really lean in Pittsburgh, like he was on his last legs there. He was so aggressive. His goaltenter coach, Jill's Milosh was, you know, trying to slow his game down.

But you're learning on the fly and giving up four goals a night. And, I mean, there were times where you wondered if he was ever going to turn the corner. And, you know, as opposed to, you're right, if he's the second or third rounder, probably sees some HL time or for sure sees some HL time. And you don't even think about him until he's 22, 20. and, you know, I tie a lot back to a guy like Kerry Price. Keep in mind, there was a massive argument whether you liked it or not in 2010 in Montreal as to do you keep Halak over price because Halak had given them, I think, a win or two in the,

a round or two in the playoffs that year. Yeah, well, they know they beat the Penguins, right? Yeah, that's right. They beat the Caps and the Penguins and they lost the Flyers in the conference finals. Correct. So, you know, it gives them a couple rounds and played very well. But, you know, you're sitting there going, well, we've got this young stud, but he still has to grow up on and off the ice. And, you know, you're at a crossroll, and they make the decision to stick with Price.

And it takes a little bit for him to become a mature goaltender. And, you know, you watch him evolve and become better and better as he gains more experience and confidence in his game. And, you know, that's what's interesting is, you know, I like watching guys kind of grow. and, you know, because in our minds, kind of like the Mark Andre Fleury thing, you sit there and you think, ah, he can't do it in the playoffs, but that actually was quite, you know,

it was three or four years ago when he had a couple meltdowns where, you know, you put the, I think it was the islanders, you put the one in his net from behind it, you know, there were some real, real struggles there. And, you know, those are the ones

that you couldn't, you know, you're, for me as a goaltender, you're grimacing watching because you could feel for him. You can feel him struggling mentally. and trying to fight through. And so if you can get that out of your mind, I like seeing guys evolve and kind of turning a corner.

And he's certainly, you know, a guy that has done that and other guys throughout the league as well. Yeah. All right, Jamie, I have a goalie theory question for you that I was hoping you'd be able to answer from your experience, playing the position. And so let me set the table for you, the scene here. Okay, so you're inette and you are facing a guy like Stamco,

or Ovechkin, for example. And you know, especially, let's say, on the power play and you know exactly what the team wants to do. Ovecichkin's going to be in that one spot and he's going to be camping out there and eventually they're going to want to get the puck to him and he's going to one time it and try and get it past you. And as a goalie, like what's going through your head? Because there's been a lot of discussion recently with people kind of focusing in on

power plays and whatnot and especially with the capitals going, okay, our team's better off kind of shadowing Ovechkin and forcing the caps to beat them in other ways or should they just play them straight up and hope that the goalie makes a save? as the actual goalie, what are you, what are you hoping? Are you hoping your teammates are going to kind of help make life a little bit easier for you by just not letting Ovec can beat you and you get to face other guys? Or are you kind of hoping that you're going to have at least a clear kind of lane to try and make a save against him when he gets the puck?

Well, in theory, are you just praying, honestly, that the puck just hits you. No, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you exactly how I feel, and I'm going to tell you a great story, too, about it. Because in theory, you're right. Like, in theory, okay, let's take away that one-timer and, you know, we're in pretty good shape of a vetchkin has no clean look at the net or stamp goes. Let's just say both of those elite one-timers from that, you know, that face-off dot area on the blocker side. So in theory, great, no problem. So then you play a four on three.

But, you know, the problem is you have multiple weapons on the power play. So you're saying, okay, I'll take my chances, you know, Nick Baxter on the half wall. He's not really a shooter or Marty St. Louis when St. Louis when St. goes get 65. But what they do is they'll create a lot of deception. So regardless of what you think, what they'll do is, is Marty St. Louis will walk off the half wall and he'll actually shoot. So, okay, the goaltender can front that. But then he establishes a shot.

So a player will almost get mesmerized by the puck. and they'll migrate over and say, I've got to force Marty out a little bit wide or do something because the coach is going to yell at me, and he'll create a little deception like he's looking towards the net, and then zoom. He'll saucer it over a stick or through a lane or between the legs to Stamcoasts, who's standing there with a stick cock,

and he just hammers it home. And as a goaltender, you've got to, what happens, then I call it all the time by creating deception, you've got to front the shot that's in front of you, not worry about the shot that is potentially that you know is there, because the minute you start to cheat in the national hockey league, guys are too good. And what I mean by that is every guy, every elite player has that.

They have that little turn of the stick that opens the blade up, that, hey, the goaltender is walking the puck, but he knows the options. And he'll get you to freeze. And the minute that you freeze, it's a split second, and then they zip it back door, you're caught. and so it's easier said than son and here's the other thing I'll tell you a great story

so I'm the goalie coach for the flames Nika Kippersoff is our starter we go into Tampa and I talk exactly that I'm like St. Louis is going to walk off the wall he may establish a shot but I said you know where it's going so I said to Kipper like I mean Kipper at that point

had one of the best lateral lateral pushes in the league to get there I said you know where it's going I said Stammer's going to have a one-timer on that dot and he's going to go short side shelf. So I said, you've got to get across, but you've got to get across with your

shoulders pushed up so that you can cover the top of the top of the net, because he'll shelf it from there. Right. And so, you know, easier, send it down, we got it all laid out. I've got some video there for Mika, and go in pretty good shape. We think we've got

a good game plan. And I think Stammer gets, for sure, gets one. He may have got two. from that same spot. And I remember after the game saying to Mika, because Mika was there on both plays. He got across. And I'm going to see,

there's a podcast, I can swear out of it. I want to say, I want to say what Mika said. And so, St. Louis walks off the wall, rolls his wrist, fires it to the seam,

it touches Mika a little bit, but he gets across in time. And Stamcoast just hammers this. like top shelf and it's like barring in like ridiculous and i said to make it like you know how was it we prepared for it he goes he goes jamy and he thinks i'm mad at him and i'm like i'm not mad at him i'm just like he goes i'm like you were there and he goes yeah i'm there but he goes you can't make the save like he goes it's impossible like unless i stood there like you can't get across get set and and and then react to it because it's from a shot distance it's you either have to get hit or it's

net. Like you just, there's no chance to react on the play. So he was so mad because he said, you know, I'm, I'm there, but I'm still getting beat. And it's funny because these goalies, a lot of times, they're there. But the guy, I mean, if you look at, you know, we're actually, where they actually get the shot from, let's just say it's, you know, between the top of the circles and the face off dot. And they get all of it. Let's say they get 90 miles an hour or 95, depending on, you know, where it is. Like, and you're trying to get across, like, they're 20 feet away from you. Like, there's no chance unless it hits you that you're going to stop that puck.

So I see goalies all the time cheating towards it and actually being there, but not being able to react to it if it doesn't hit them because it's just the body can't catch up to it. So he was so mad after the game. And so it was funny. We had a little chuckle on the plane. and, you know, he was just saying, like, he goes, God, like he goes, I was there, I knew it was coming, but I still couldn't stop it.

And that's how it happened. So, you know, in a playoff series, I think you have to change your defensive structure towards that. The problem is if a power, especially like Washington, who has multiple options, yeah, would I, you know, will I take Backstrom on the Half Wall or Carlson, whether we're one-timer, a right-handed shot from the top of the umbrella ahead of Obie? Absolutely. The problem is, is guys get mesmerized, and all it takes is Carlson to fake the shot, and guys want to get in the lane, and they find a way that, like, Obi will start to get lost in the zone. Brett Hall had the innate ability to get lost on the ice,

and then all of a sudden reappear where he was most dangerous. And these guys have that ability. like they don't just stand there. They'll kind of move in and out of the play and kind of near it. And then when an opportunity towards that gets available, that's when they jump into position. And they're so quick to get into position and get the puck away, you have a tough time reacting. So, you know, in theory, it's a great theory.

But it's just the hardest thing is like easier said than done because I've been there, man. I've had OV shoot on me. I have Brett Hall shoot on me. when I played against St. Louis, I remember one time in St. Louis where Adam Oates fed him a one-timer from behind the net on his strong side, and it hit me before I even readjusted my head to try and find the puck. It hit me and was in the corner. And I remember thinking to myself, what the hell was that? And it was a shot. It had hit me so quickly. It had come off of his stick. So the pass from behind the net to

to hull stick, to off of my pad, to in the corner, and I was still readjusting my head to try and find the puck. Like, that's the type of stuff. So it's kind of funny, but you're right. I think it's a great, I think there will be always that argument is do you shadow guys, do you, you know, disrupt their momentum? Like, you have to find a way to get under OB-skin, get Stamco's pissed off, so that they're a little bit more distracted instead of getting available.

Yeah. And maybe you've got a chance at it, but I think if you find a way to, If you're a goaltender, you find a way to get in front of that puck and take a little bit of ice for yourself. Maybe you get an opportunity to get hit by it, but boy, it's tough. Like, that's a real tough option. Yeah, I think my strategy would be the close your eyes and pray strategy. Well, you know what, it's neat to see, though, because it's amazing guys like that who still can get it away so quickly. And, you know, there's no signs of him slowing down.

Like, he enjoys that challenge. but, you know, there are goaltenders. For me, a guy like Marazik would be like bring it on. Like that's, you know, that's, I think that's how he treats things. And he would find a way he would cheat to get there and he makes him saves. But what will happen is there will be one or two squeakers where he'll cheat and somebody will look them off and they'll go short side on the glove and kind of catch him. Well, that's what we see with guys like Quick, for example, right, where they just get out of position because they are being so aggressive and you've got to take to go to the guy. you're right like i mean quick he's a prime example like he's he plays that violent style side to side so

you're gonna you know there's times where you're gonna get beat with a stinker because you're overplaying it or you're overlooking and and and uh you know like you say you live with it because you know that that's how they're playing they're not going to change and and your team adapts to it hey jami i got one final question and then we'll let you go um something i was curious about because you obviously do color commentary for uh senators games and i kind of i've always wondered like walk me through the general sort of process and timeline of what goes into the preparation for a specific game you're going to be doing the color commentary for. So like, for example, how much notice do you get of a specific game you're going to be doing?

And then what sort of stuff do you do leading up to the game in terms of accumulating information and kind of in your head going through like, okay, at this point of the game where if this happens, I'm going to kind of bust out this nugget of information that I've seen come across my eyes recently or something like that. Like what goes into it? Okay, so I know my schedule right at the start of the year. So I'll give an example. So I know exactly, you know, I think I'm doing like 36 Ottawa games. I know exactly which ones I'm doing.

So I can, you know, I've got the dates all planned out and my travel all planned out. So I'm in good shape that way. And I know the teams. For example, I'm doing Ottawa, Colorado tomorrow. So, you know, I'm watching the Ottawa game tonight. I will know all the rosters. I know the rosters of the Colorado Avalanche that they played last night. I know I've watched the game.

I've kind of made some notes and some mental notes to myself. You kind of go through. I mean, you have a general idea of the league. So you kind of in your mind for me, I keep an eye on Colorado anyways because I'm really close with Jerome. But I get, you know, the last three games I've watched them to kind of see a trend, what Patrick likes to do, you know, with his matchups and stuff like that. You know, who's starting and go, who's playing well, you know, who's eating up some of the minutes,

that type of stuff. What's their power play looking like? Their setups, all of that. So you kind of get a general. And when you do a team like Ottawa, I mean, you know, you know, you know, you know them pretty well because you see them every day. You watch most of their games and, you know, you're right there up in front, you know, front and close and personal and you can talk to them and ask players, you know, their thought process. And so that's a time. of like behind the scenes a little bit of prep. I make two game sheets for myself to actually hold during the game. And they're both prepared from a website that I joined up with

Broadcastersedge.com. So the guy is created basically like a chart for me. And then I used to write it out. Now I have a computer printout and then I make all my notes beside it. So, for example, it'll look like the layout of, if you go into a dress room and you look at, or you'll go on the website Daily Face Off and you see the lineups, you know, the three play. The first line is this player. So, you know, if it's Hoffman, Taurus, and Bobby Ryan, those three will be across the top of my sheet.

And then, you know, I've got their personal stats. I've got their age, their cap hit. When they've scored last, last assists, all of that, I make some little personal. notes, you know, Bobby Ryan is on a three-game winning, or, you know, three-game point streak, all of that. So you do all that type of due diligence. That's the prep just for your little game sheet. You go to the morning skate, you talk to guys, you talk to the coaches, you talk to players

that you have a bit of a relationship with, see how the guys are going, you know, have a little conversation with them, see where you're at, those types of things. That's the type of stuff that I do, you know, kind of that, that pre-exam. And then it's all the extra stuff, like the nuggets. The play-by-play, they're the ones with kind of all the nuggets. Like, geez, Bobby Ryan has scored on three Thursdays in a row, you know, those types of. Like, they come up with that. What I do is I, during the game, will be talking to the producer.

And the producer, I will, I have what's called a talkback. And I will just, I'm in between benches. and I'll say mark that play. That was interesting. You know, watch Eric Carlson jump back into play or lose a stick here, and you're constantly in contact. And so while the play-by-play guy is talking, you will have a conversation with your director or your producer,

and then you also have a conversation with the play-by-play guy live. So you're watching the game, but it's a lot of moving parts. And then, you know, a goal goes in, and right away I'll identify where I want the goal to be broken. down from. So I'll say go all the way back to Ottawa's end. Right. And then, so that, okay, got it. And I'll, you know, the play-by-play, what a goal.

And Bobby Ryan's 18th of the season. And I'll say, you know, this all started back in Ottawa's zone. Watch the, you know, watch the break out here. Watch this little play in the neutral zone. And so you go through it on the prompter. And then, you know, the producer will come in and say, I got another look of it overhead. And I'll say, okay, so that way you can make your point a little bit more. So those are the types of in-game stuff, but the prep, you can, I believe you can never have too much prep.

Like, and just, and the thing that I enjoy about it is, you may only get to 10% of the nuggets you write down. Right. Because the, the storyline of the game gets, gets kind of thrown out there anyways. But for me, I, I want to be prepared that if there's a broken pane of glass and we've got to talk 10 minutes, you know, with dead air. You've got lots of stories. She's, it was interesting.

I talked to Bobby Ryan this morning and said it was an adjustment to, you know, to play their left side instead of the right side. And, you know, Coach Dave Cameron said this to me about it. So you're constantly making mental notes to yourself. And I'll write a little scribble on my piece of paper like, you know, Ryan switching from left to right. And, you know, Dave Cameron, not liking pot possession or, you know, not managing their puck properly.

Right. And, you know, stuff like that, so that if the direction of the game takes you there, you can throw it in. And that's kind of what's been a good evolution for me. And I listen to it, you know, I'm pretty lucky. I got to be honest, because I'm biased,

like 100% biased, but I think Chris Cuthbert and Gordon Miller are amazing play-by-play people. So I think they're two of the best, if not the best out there. I mean, I know I respect everyone. but I think they're amazing. So they make it really easy for you.

I've told you this before, but I mean, Ray Ferraro, I think is a brilliant color guy, and Ray's been a mentor of mine. I played with Ray. I have a great relationship with Ray. So I watch him, Mike Johnson, is a good friend. I think Mike is a sharp guy.

And, you know, I watch some of the guys that I've been friends with and I get little tips on what they, you know, how they prepare, how they look for things and stuff. And then I, you know, for me, I'm a goaltender. So I'm always kind of looking from a different angle. So that's a type of way of how I shaped my opinion out of it. But, you know, from the whole process of that, that's kind of how it happens. And it's neat, but it's hard work.

And I think I'm getting better at it and I've worked really hard at it. But, you know, it's something that it is a work in progress. So I'd like to see where I'm at five years from now. And, you know, my prep, I think, will change a little bit here and there. I maybe get a little bit more efficient because I put a lot of time. Like, I put hours. I did two hours this afternoon of the game tomorrow. And then I'll do another two hours tomorrow afternoon after I've talked to everyone.

So, I mean, there's a lot of hours of prep where I think if you get into a groove, maybe you can be a little bit more efficient in that prep time. Well, I think it shows. I mean, the viewers at home can kind of tell. I don't want to name names or call anyone out. But sometimes you can sort of tell if someone's short on material or whatnot and they're just like recycling things they've said already three times before in the broadcast. And whenever I watch any of your games, I never hear that sort of stuff. You always kind of provide new insights. So I speak for everyone when we're just like appreciative of that. Well, that's good. Yeah, it's nice. Like I said, I've got some pretty good guys to work with. And the one thing is, is the people in the truck,

they don't get enough respect for what they do because there will be times where they'd be like, hey, Jamie, we picked up something behind here. Now watch this. So they'll show it in my little ISO monitor. Now watch, you know, Jerome again, fell off the bench here. Watch this, you know.

So we'll have a little fun with it. Like, you know, there's a constant story that I'm being built and everyone kind of contributes to it. That's a thing like, you know. Well, have you ever had any slip-ups like the, or any scares like the Ray Ferraro thing where he was making fun of Paul Martin and obviously he wasn't meant to be shown on TV,

but we caught it. Like, have you ever had any stories like that? Yeah, I mean, not, knock on wood in color. We've had a couple. There was one time where I was, I pressed talk back to my producer, and for some reason I may not have pressed it hard enough.

And I was like, yeah, let's show that. And his name was Sam Cicerole. And Sam goes, did you press button? I'm like, yeah, I press a button. He's like, I think we went on air with that. You know, like, so I was like, yeah, let's show that. He was like, hey, let's, you know, I've got this. And I'm like, yeah, let's show that.

And I didn't press, may not have pressed talk back hard enough or maybe press or, you know, something. So, you know, you go live. Like, it happens. But, you know, I haven't had, you know, I'm always fearful of that. Yeah. But I'm sure I will. You know, it's live TV. People make mistakes in live TV all the time.

And you hope that it's not an egregious one where, you know, people's feelings are hurt or you, you know, you end up getting your pink slip out of it because you, you know, swore or did something. I'm always cognizant. When you're mic, you always treat that you are alive. That's the one rule in TV is when you are, Mike, there's an opportunity of somebody pressing the wrong. button and you do go live and you know and and that's where people get hung up on it and jammed up yeah but still when you're you know you're gonna have to understand that if uh you're spending three hours talking about something like it's it's human to slip up occasionally so it's pretty impressive that hasn't happened yet well it it will probably tomorrow Ottawa

Colorado but uh that's me knocking on light yeah exactly I'm knocking on too but it you know what I miss speak all the time, but, you know, it's a past tense. The other day I said, it was Tampa. I said, you know, that's a big save. I met Craig Anderson made a big save at 4-1, and I said, big save at 4-1, Tampa. And what I meant was 4-1, you know, them beating Tampa. But I said it wrong.

And, you know, believe me, there's Twitter police out there that'll let you know. But for the most part, I get, you know, I think if you're positive, if you have some good insight and you deliver information that people may want to hear, I think, you know, for the most part, people are happy with it. Absolutely. Well, Jamie, keep doing the good work. Keep fighting a good fight. And hopefully we'll be able to get you back on the show as the year goes along. It was a lot of fun as well. Well, yeah, I am an original OG, so I better be back. Absolutely, man. We'll talk soon. Absolutely. Right on. Take care. Hockey PDOCAST online at HockeyPedocast.com.

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