The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 66: Trade Deadline Aftermath

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Starting point is 00:03:07 And joining me in studio is one of my coworkers, I guess I could say now. It's Sean McIndow. Sean, what's going on, man? Not too much is going on. Not too much at all is going on today. True words have never been spoken. We're recording this at about 5 p.m. Eastern time on Monday. So the dust is sort of settling after the.

Starting point is 00:03:29 the trade deadline and at least there was a little bit of a flurry there towards the end where trades started trickling in even though if there were relatively minor ones in terms of the magnitude they were going to have in settling playoff races and whatnot but I don't know like what that's such a weird trade deadline wasn't it like it was it was super weird it's uh we've never seen a deadline where all the bubble teams basically sat out huh yeah all the teams that are outside of the playoffs looking in uh I don't think a single one of them made any attempt to get better today or even in the days leading up to it. It's, you know, normally this is the type of year where you get the teams that are

Starting point is 00:04:07 four or five points out, they make their run. At the very least, they say, okay, you know what, we're going to take a swing at it. And really, I mean, if you're willing to go back that far, the senators kind of fell into that role with the Dionne Finuf trade. Right. But other than that, there's been nobody, even the Minnesota wild, two points out of a playoff spot. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:31 And they really don't do anything. And that's, you know, I, if you had told me that a few teams were going to sit this one out, that would have made sense to me because I think there's, you know, there's an element where you got to smarten up a little bit and realize what you really are and let reality sink in. Right. But when everybody's sitting it out, that's, you got to think that that would drive the prices down a little bit.

Starting point is 00:04:54 And you wonder if anybody maybe tried to jump back in at the very end and just, just couldn't get it done. Well, it seems weird to me that it kind of felt like we kept waiting for like one big domino to fall and then everything would come into form after that. And I think it was like around 1 p.m. The Bodker trade got announced and I was like, okay, finally this could be something. And then I think the Russell trade came out shortly thereafter. But then just nothing else really happened. That was really it for the big ones. And there were, I mean, because he always felt like there were certain names that you figured almost had to go. I mean, Louis Erickson, okay, you could understand the Bruins made the decision not to not. to move him. But you had to, I mean, you thought for sure the Canucks were going to move some of the veteran guys. You thought for sure the Leafs were going to make some further moves. And, you know, other cases like that where you thought, okay, these guys have to go.

Starting point is 00:05:41 So it's just a question of where. And then, you know, even the deadline, three o'clock hit, you think, okay, well, we've been through this before. We know the deals come in afterwards. And they did. But it wasn't the big ones. Well, I think the Bruins actually might be, well, we were just saying that there weren't very many teams that did it.

Starting point is 00:05:56 I think the Bruins might be an example that did sort of circle back. And I think they were for a while, we're legitimately shopping Louis Erickson. And maybe they realized we're not going to get anything that's going to really move the needle for us here. So why don't we just keep him and we'll actually be buyers instead. And they picked up Lee Stepniak and John Michael Isles. I don't think either of those guys is going to necessarily put them over the top. But it definitely seems like they on the fly sort of recalibrated and readjusted their. And maybe they did because the Bruins were, you know, out of everyone,

Starting point is 00:06:23 they kind of had the old school trade deadline. where they went and threw a bunch of picks out there and added a couple guys who are going to maybe give them some marginal help. They don't make them all that much better. But you know what? If one of those guys scores a winner in game seven, then we'll be talking about what a great move it was. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:43 Well, I don't know. I think the big loser for both of us when we were talking earlier was the lightning just because it seems like they were one of those teams that really just didn't know what to do. and maybe it's unfair to criticize them because maybe there just wasn't anything that was really worthwhile on the table from anyone. Maybe teams were just like calling their bluff

Starting point is 00:07:02 and being like, well, let's see you keep Drew-in. You know what? I said in the piece that I wrote on SportsNut today, I said, Jonathan Drewan is a loser here. Clearly, if you're doing winners and losers, he gets the bail because he tried to force a trade and now the trade isn't going to happen. Steve Eiserman, I'm not sure what category I put him in right now. I mean, this seemed like a great opportunity

Starting point is 00:07:24 to load up. This was a case where I thought going into today, I thought that by the end of the day, we're going to be talking about the lightning based on what they got for them, Jonathan Drentrae, as the clear number two in the east. I don't think they were going to catch the capitals, but they were going to be the clear number two. And instead, they don't get those reinforcements, with the caveat that now you're starting to hear Steve Eisenman say that maybe the door is open and maybe you can come back. And I have a hard time imagining that. weird. But then again, at the same time, if you're Jonathan Marin, you need two more games to get a year to words your free agency. Maybe you can swallow the pride and do it.

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Starting point is 00:08:45 and you don't even have to go through the hassle of entering your credit card to sign up like in most other places. All you have to do is go to freshbooks.com slash P.D.Ocast and just make sure to enter Hockey P.D.O.cast in the how you heard about a section. And after that, you can immediately start making your life easier today. Well, sort of impromptu. We're joined by Elliot Friedman hopping in to make this a three-man podcast. Elliot, thanks for joining us.

Starting point is 00:09:09 My pleasure, guys. Happy to do it. So we were talking before you joined us about how it felt like the Bruins were one of these teams that recalibrated on the fly, maybe based on the market. And I don't know, it felt like You can speak this better than I can, maybe, but Louis Erickson felt like he was on the block for sure. They were trying to sell him off, and then maybe the return just wasn't good enough. And then they decided to pick up guys like Stepniak and John Michael Alas instead. Like, do you think they went into it thinking they might be sellers if the opportunity arose? And instead, they decided to be buyers just because of the market?

Starting point is 00:09:39 No, I never thought the Bruins were going to be sellers. I always thought they were going to be buyers. You know, they missed the playoffs last year. They made a GM change. I don't find a lot of teams who think they're decent, or especially if they're in playoff spots and a new general manager comes in or there's there's a different regime. They don't like to go backwards unless they're intentionally trying to go backwards like some organizations we know.

Starting point is 00:10:03 So I never thought that the Boston Bruins were going to go backwards. And the only way I thought, the only way I thought that they were going to trade Louis Erickson is if they got something else to come back in that we keep them equally as good. So at the end of the day, I wasn't surprised that they held Erickson. and I also wasn't surprised that they added a bit. Why do you think it took so long for any of these trades to really materialize? It was like 1 p.m. until the vodka trade fell in. Well, don't forget the people play poker, right?

Starting point is 00:10:30 Right. Like, you sit there and you say, okay, where do this guy's cards? And, you know, is he or she going to, well, I guess there's really not too many she's right now. But I guess you say, is he going to fold? As we get close, is he going to panic? Is he going to worry about losing this for nothing? Like we saw a situation tonight where Chicago and Dallas went in right at the end on Ham Hughes and said, okay, let's see if we can try this another time.

Starting point is 00:10:58 And so you're sitting there and you're saying, is this person going to crack if we make them wait? And that's kind of what all these teams decided to do. Right. So related to that, I saw an interesting Brian Burke interview he gave with Sports Night where he was saying that a few years ago he goes criticized a little bit for not moving Mike Camilleri at the deadline and he felt like the return. turns he was being offered just weren't worth his time.

Starting point is 00:11:20 And instead, he thought it might be a good long-term play to sort of show other teams that if you're going to try and make a trade with him, like, you better have a serious offer. Otherwise, he's not even going to entertain it. Do you think there's actually some sort of merit to that? Like, he made it sound like some of them, like the Glencross trade last year, for example, and maybe even the Russell won this year, he was able to get better returns just because he'd sort of set that baseline. Well, I think, I don't know if it's that specifically, Dimitri, but I think there are teams

Starting point is 00:11:45 who believe that. Look, Ham Hughes didn't get dealt today. and I think Benning at the end looked at these teams and said, no, I'm not going to let you embarrass me. Right. And, you know, I'm sure that Toronto had some offers for PA Parento,

Starting point is 00:11:56 and, you know, they didn't do it either. I thought the interesting one today, the one that really surprised me was Brandon Perry, who went for a sixth round draft pick. And, you know, I think Florida is a team that they did it. They got criticized. They did a lot of interesting things. They got criticized for it,

Starting point is 00:12:10 but obviously they didn't care. They're like, you know, we're going to make the move anyway and get something for them. So, you know, I think that depends on the person, some people are definitely like that. Like I'd rather you not get it than you fleece me. But especially now, the one thing people forget is not the cap's flattening out, flattening out.

Starting point is 00:12:28 Cap room matters. Right. And, you know, maybe not so much for a team like Florida that's not necessarily at the cap. But if you're going to be there, like I can understand you letting people walk and taking their cap space and doing stuff with that. But from the Canucks perspective, do you think they actually approach it that way? No, I think in this particular case, Dimitri, Benning at the end said, I'm not letting you make a mockery of a deal for me. Boy, I don't think that's going to go over really well in Vancouver,

Starting point is 00:12:55 just based on how desperate the fan base seems to be to sort of start this rebuild. And they have no kind of young prospects or picks now to show for these veterans who might walk this deadline. Like Amniews might come back. He might come back. You know, he read it right today. I was just watching his media conference and he said that he still wants to come back. Like, that's his plan. You know, I kind of look at it this way.

Starting point is 00:13:14 And no offense to the wonderful people of Vancouver. But they don't like anything. I'm from Vancouver and I can vouch for that. I know you are, Timitri. They don't like anything. Like anything that that team does. I honestly believe that it takes, like, I think Quebec, Montreal is the toughest media market in the country.

Starting point is 00:13:35 Because Quebec is different. Like, they really make stars out of their media people there. So they are, like, and it's just a different culture. Like, it's really funny. Like, I watch these shows on RDA. and TVA and it's constant yelling. Like, he just don't see that as much in English Canada. And their media guys are such stars that you've got to really have a thick skin.

Starting point is 00:13:56 I think the toughest English market is Vancouver. Right. Like, Pat Quinn always used to joke with us. When he was coaching the Maples or the GM of the Maples, he'd look at us and he'd go, you guys are awful, but Vancouver was worse. Like, he would always say that. And I just think, like, I watch, I watch the social media trends. I watch everything goes.

Starting point is 00:14:15 You cannot be the GM of the Vancouver. Vancouver Canucks have a weak constitution. You have to be, this is what we're doing, and we love your support, and without your passion, we wouldn't be the Vancouver Canucks, but this is what we're doing, and we can't let you run the team from your coaches. And I think that's the hardest thing. I think that's one of the reasons that the Canucks have had trouble winning is because the pressure of the market forces changes in directions that shouldn't happen all the time. Right. I mean, just look when they fired Alan Vigno, for example, and bring in a guy on John Tortorella, and then, you know, recalibated on the fly and bring in Benning and Linden.

Starting point is 00:14:52 And they just seem to sort of be all over the place where some of these other organizations have a better infrastructure that's been there for longer. Well, Vino had a good run. Yeah. I think even Alain Vino will tell you it was time. It was time. Like, it was stale. But I think the problem there was their search went sideways. Right.

Starting point is 00:15:10 You know, they looked at Dallas Aiken's and it didn't work out. and they looked at Lindy Roth and it didn't work out. And I think all of a sudden they were kind of in a situation where, like, the story I always heard was when they, when the Rangers called the Canucks to ask them about speaking to Alaino, the Canucks said, sure. And the Rangers said, you want to speak to John Tortoella too? And they were like, you know, I don't think we're going to go down that way. You know, a week later they were calling and saying, can we have permission?

Starting point is 00:15:35 Right. So I just think that whole, like, the toughest thing is, you know, you have Vino and you're like, it's time. And then you realize, you know what? it's sometimes it's hard to find the right person. And I do agree with you that I don't necessarily think that change was wrong, but I think the way it went changed the direction of the franchise. So we were talking about Ham Houston.

Starting point is 00:15:56 And before you joined us, Sean and I were discussing a little bit how... Do you want to talk here, by the way, Sean's still here? I'm listening. The way the Dallas Stars, Calgary Flames trade transpired with Jim Nill sort of giving up quite a bit for Chris Russell, I think even listeners of this show know that I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of Chris Russell. I know it's very analytic versus I test. But I think even people that think Chris Russell's a really reliable defender who can block a lot of shots, kill penalties,

Starting point is 00:16:25 and has a specific role in a team would still admit that that was a pretty hefty price to pay for him, considering just what other guys were going for. And I'm not sure if anyone else is really offering that. I mean, that could realistically turn into a first round pick they gave up with a prospect and a young defenseman. do you think they were between like him and hamus and they decided to go with russell or they do believe they made that conscious decision yes i think they did and you know this is this is the one thing like look i i i like the analytics i'm very interested in them but i'm moving more dmitri towards the player tracking like i i think and one of the things i'm really interested in the

Starting point is 00:17:03 player tracking is that they talk about how good russell is at exiting his own with the puck and I find this very interesting. Like, I am the kind of person who believes you should look at everything. Right. But I'm down on a lot of the shot compiling things. And so Russell obviously is a value there among Calgary Defans and for doing that. And the other thing is, like, Jim Nill is no idiot. Yeah. Like, Jim Nill is a really smart guy.

Starting point is 00:17:30 And if he says that's what Chris Russell is worth, I would tend to say, I believe in Jim Nill. Like, you look at the moves he's made in Dallas. Especially the trades. It seems super opportunistic. You know, he seems like, and plus the things he helped do in Detroit, like, I'm sorry, if it's a discussion between Jim Nill and the analytics community, as much as I love some of you guys, I'm siding with Jim Nill.

Starting point is 00:17:56 No, I agree. I think there's, sometimes you can get a little carried away and go a bit too far in extreme directions and trying to make arguments. But I don't know, it just seems weird that they would have picked Russell. over Hamme's. I thought that Hamus might have been a safer option for them. I'm just wondering if I agree with everything you said about Nill and how he's made, his track

Starting point is 00:18:15 record speaks for itself. But at the same time, I'm wondering if he looked at what the Blackhawks were doing, for example, and maybe felt a little extra pressure. I'm sure that, I'm sure competition always has something to do with it. There's no doubt about that but you also, too, like, don't forget he's got really good

Starting point is 00:18:31 he's got really good defensive prospects, two of them, and he didn't give them up. Yeah. So, And so, you know, I just think at the end of the day, like, I know everybody likes to rip executives. We all have fun doing that, I guess, but, you know, they're there for a reason. And I look at Jim Nell and I say, if that's what he believes, then I believe in what he's doing. Right. I think that's fair.

Starting point is 00:18:58 Sean, you have any of it? I want to throw one other team. It's a team that we haven't, I haven't heard talked about very much at all, but I throw it on Twitter. I said, who's the most disappointed fan base right now? And number one, no surprise was Vancouver. But number two was the St. Louis Blues. Right. Because we just watched Chicago spend the last week loading up.

Starting point is 00:19:18 And today we see Dallas go out and make a big move. And the St. Louis Blues, I feel like they've almost been a forgotten team in the Central. Because they're the one team that's doing exactly what they always do. Dallas was a bit of a surprise. Chicago, obviously, you know, when you're the champs, you get the attention. St. Louis has been right there. this is a real good team and they've got the injuries and maybe

Starting point is 00:19:38 they're that team that says we're getting our guys back and that's our deadline is that, you know, that's our acquisitions is the guys who are going to be healthy but it just seems real tough when you're in a three-way race in the toughest division in hockey. I mean this team could finish fourth overall in the league and start on the road in the playoffs

Starting point is 00:19:54 and you see the other two teams go and make big moves at the deadline and you I mean you're adding a backup goalie from the Oilers you know were they on the verge doing something? bigger or was this the plan all along? And just to further that point, I think I was actually watching

Starting point is 00:20:10 you and Damien Cox were on Saturday night at one point a few weeks ago, and this was before the petrangal injury, and one of you guys reported that at least they were sort of entertaining the idea of maybe moving Shadenkirk ahead of a year ahead, kind of like the coyotes did with Yandel,

Starting point is 00:20:24 instead of waiting until he's a rental next year. Do you think that that petrangul injury might have sort of thrown a curveball in and then decided, listen, we can't really afford to move a guy like Shatink? I think there was a lot of that. You know, I really think that what happened there was that they got all those injuries screwed up their cap situation. Right. And there was no way they were going to be able to add because of all the injuries.

Starting point is 00:20:51 Like they're going to have steam coming off injury list. They're going to have Ot maybe coming off the injury list. They're going to have Petterangelo just got off the injury list. You know, and then, you know, the injuries just, Brian Elliott. coming off the injury list. I just think the injuries kept on mounting. And, you know, unless you can stash these guys to the playoffs like Patrick Kane last year and like the Kings are going to do with Marion Gabrick this year, you're stuck.

Starting point is 00:21:15 Like, you're really stuck. And I think that was, I think that was a problem. I think the other thing there, too, guys, is that, you know, they've given up a lot of picks. You know, they did it for Ryan Miller a couple years ago. You know, Minnesota is another team that's given up a lot of picks. Eventually you reach a spot where you've got to sit back and say, we can't do that anymore. And I think St. Louis was in that spot. I think they would have loved to have done things, but they would have had to give a contract back.

Starting point is 00:21:45 And nobody's really wanting to take money right now. Yeah, and the Blues don't, because I looked at it. They don't have the Brian Bickle contract that you can say, all right, if we unload this, this guy isn't contributing. I mean, anybody they have that's at a high number is somebody that's helping. But the thing I just come back to is the Ken Hitch, extension, the one-year extension, I mean, that does not sound like a team that's patiently working towards a plan. This has always struck me as a team that is kind of in that final

Starting point is 00:22:12 stage of saying, we've got to figure out what are we going to be when we grow up? Is this a Stanley Cup contender right now, or do we need to maybe take a step back? And I really thought, you know, if there was a way, maybe there wasn't, to get aggressive, that they would have been one of the teams. And you just never really seem to hear them associated with any of those bigger names. Well, I don't think, now, do you go by your name or do you go by DG on this podcast. He goes by Sean Mackey. Okay, okay.

Starting point is 00:22:35 I don't know. I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to say that like your Clark can't, Superman's Clark can or Batman. He's just on TV. I mean, he's bonus color. That's true. That's a good point. You know, the one thing is, I remember last year, Doug Armstrong talked about the two

Starting point is 00:22:49 cores. Well, one core is probably going away now. Like, David Backus turned, David Backus turned down a contract extension this year. Wasn't the biggest contract extension. I know locally they reported. it was three years at 5.5, and he said no. And that's one deal that could have made this year. I think there would have been a lot of interest,

Starting point is 00:23:08 but they decided they weren't going to do it. You know, I think, but last year, Doug Armstrong talked about the summer, we had two cores. There was the veteran corps and there was the young core. And the young core is Teresenko. It's Jaden Schwartz. It's Petterangelo. And they hope it's going to be Jake Allen, among others.

Starting point is 00:23:27 And whenever general managers does that, he's saying to me that he's got his veteran guys and he's got his younger guys. And the veteran guys are going towards the door and the young guys are entering the room. And I think you're very much right in the sense that St. Louis, over the next couple of years, is going to be a team in transition, but they're hopeful that between Petirangelo, who's an Olympian, Teresenko, who's an Olympian, Schwartz, who's a really good player, if you can stay healthy, that they are going to be able to stay reasonably close to what they are. But I definitely think the Blues are a team in transition. Yeah. Well, I think a similar

Starting point is 00:24:05 team just in regards that they've been a really good team for a few years now, but just haven't been able to get past the Kings and the Blackhawks is the Ducks, right? And we actually saw them pick up a guy like Jamie McGinn and they got Brandon Peary for cheap, as we mentioned earlier. Was there ever any sort of incentive or discussion amongst their group to maybe pursue trading one of those young defensemen or maybe they're not probably going to keep all those arms? F-A's, right? I think they talked about it this year and they considered it, but I heard nothing was ever close. Yeah. And so, you know, they'll do it in the off-season. I think what's going to happen is he's going to figure out, you know, how much is it going to cost them to sign Vatten,

Starting point is 00:24:43 and how much is it going to cost them to sign Linholm and, you know, who's going to be easier to sign? Not only the money, but the ease of signing it. You know, Shea Theodore's ready. And they've got another kid named Brandon Montoror is pretty close to being ready to. So I do think that we are moving towards the day. Like, I really thought that Cam Fowler, was going to get dealt. But when they were crap at the beginning of this year, they were really impressed with the way Fowler played. Like, he was one of the only guys who played well,

Starting point is 00:25:09 and he really improved his stock inside the organization. So he'll take a look over the playoffs and see where they go. But I do think he was asked. I do think he thought about it, but I heard that it was just never close. Do you have anything that had, Sean? I don't. I think, okay, one final question then.

Starting point is 00:25:29 Are we, by the way, live? No, we're not. Oh, okay, because I was, you know, I don't want to swear. No, we can do whatever we want. It's, anything goes. I guess to wrap it up is, do you think we're going to see more trade deadlines like this moving forward? We're just this quiet and maybe teams are being more active. You know what I hope this means, Dimitri?

Starting point is 00:25:46 Yeah. I hope this means that next year we're not on the air for 11 hours. Yeah. That maybe they say, why don't you come on at, you know, noon instead of, instead of 8 a.m. I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's the best news I could hope for. Yeah, but as soon as we do that, then it's going to be the busy thing. They all have 35 trades again. What you got to do is you got to get the NHL to throw mini trade freeze on it.

Starting point is 00:26:10 You got to get them late the weekend from Friday at whatever, you know, five o'clock up until Monday at noon, and then you guys all come in. You say you flip the switch. Just drop all the ball chow. And you drop all of them, and Sergey Plotnikov gets traded and we all pretend like weird. Huge deal. We're over hours talking about him. Yes, that's a game changer.

Starting point is 00:26:28 All right. I think we cover pretty. much everything. Was there any other sort of subtle plots that happened that we haven't gone to? Well, I think you always find out over the next couple of days what didn't happen. Like how close did things get? Like stuff will leak out. You know, I

Starting point is 00:26:43 think Minnesota tried on some things, but I think everybody wanted Brodine and they weren't willing to do that. You know, I'm sure Edmonton had some conversations about some of their guys, and obviously they weren't willing to do that. you know I I think what we'll do is we'll start to figure out like you know how what other things sort of were out there right and then we'll figure it out at the end I think this draft is sort of shaping up the potentially it's going to be crazy right yeah there's a lot of these teams we just mentioned that well the draft is the new trade deadline right like that's where all the action gets done like look what was done last year Ryan O'Reilly big deal yeah like there were some there were some big trades there cool well I guess we'll look forward to that guys thanks for taking the time to come on the podcast and hopefully we'll have you back on some time. My pleasure. Yeah, thanks. The Hockey PDOCast, online at HockeyPedocast.com.

Starting point is 00:27:36 Subscribe on iTunes, SoundCloud, or follow on Twitter at Dim Filippovich and at Travis Yost.

The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 66: Trade Deadline Aftermath

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