The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 67: The World Cup of Hockey

Episode Date: March 3, 2016

With the preliminary rosters for the World Cup of Hockey being announced, Jeff Marek joins the show to help dissect Team Canada, Team North America, and Team Russia. Then we rang Jen Lute Costella up to discuss Team USA's roster and their chances in the tournament. 01:47 - Trade Deadline Day at the Sportsnet studio 05:29 - 'The Sochi Model' for roster construction 08:48 - Injury risk scaring off players from future participation 13:09 - Which Canadian goalie is 2nd in line behind Carey Price 15:19 - Shea Weber being picked over PK Subban 18:14 - The conservative nature of Hockey Canada 23:40 - Brent Burns' value as a defenseman vs. a forward 28:51 - The 3 remaining spots on the Canadian blueline 31:06 - The Canadian tradition of centers sliding over to the wing 32:51 - The biggest omissions from the first 16 invites 35:11 - The speed of the U23 version of Team North America 37:54 - Connor McDavid and Dylan Larkin 41:20 - Sean Couturier's inevitable breakout 42:56 - The disparity in talent between Russia's forwards and defense 46:05 - Players from the KHL being eligible 53:22 - Freshbooks Live Read 54:21 - Jen Lute Costella intro 55:00 - Team USA needing more goal scoring 59:50 - The divide between John Carlson's numbers and the eye test 1:03:43 - Jonathan Quick starting over Cory Schneider 1:09:40 - Handicapping Team USA's chances in the tournament 1:10:23 - How the Blackhawks have regained their form *Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave us a glowing review. *This episode is brought to you by Freshbooks, an online accounting service designed to save time and help avoid all of the stresses that come with running a small business. They’re currently offering a free 30-day trial to listeners of our show at Freshbooks.com/PDOcast (just remember to enter “Hockey PDOcast” in the ‘How You Heard About Us’ section). *Also sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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by providing various accounting tools that help save time and keep all your records in one tidy location. You can give it a try today using the 30-day free trial they're providing to our listeners at freshbooks.com slash p-docast. Just make sure to enter that the HockeyPedocast sent you, and you can start today. Also sponsoring today's show is Seatkeek. Have you ever been frustrated trying to buy tickets online? Most sites may get complicated and then try to sneak in huge fees at checkout that you weren't expecting. It's pretty much the opposite of that feeling when you find a $20 bill in the pocket of an old pair of jeans that you haven't worn in ages and didn't even know you had. That's why you need to try Seatkeek.

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And from what I've heard, seeing the Warriors play live is as close to a religious experience as a sporting event can be, so I'm pretty excited about it. But anyway, Seek essentially did all the work for me. They pulled the tickets available on different sites into one place and showed me the best values using their innovative grading system. They're

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Jeff, what's going on, man? Dibich, uh, things are good. Uh, was really happy to see a trade deadline around the store. SportsNet Studios darkening the doors and glad-handing with the executives of the broadcasters, the former GMs, the former players. It was, I was very proud of you at that moment, Dimitri. I'm not going to lie. It's kind of like when I brought Greg into the trade deadline for the first time.

It's like, oh, look, our little boys all grown up. Yeah, no, it was remarkable kind of, especially being in that green room with the super comfy couches, just listening. Basically, everyone was just having the types of conversations they're having on the air, except with some more colorful language. So it was fun to be part of that. The one thing that you'll quickly realize when you start hanging around a lot is everybody rips everybody else and everybody else in the industry. Especially when you get coaches together.

It's hilarious. I'll omit the names, but various coaches that I've worked with in sports in the past, when they get together, a couple of coaches will get together, they will spend the entire time ripping other coaches. But in public, all you hear about is this great fraternity of respect that every coach has for what. one another, dude, it's vicious. Make sure you're a fly on the wall when coaches get together. It's hilarious. We'll do. I'll pull out my phone.

I'll pull out my phone. Keep it in my hand, click the record button and have some good content for later. What did you, and I swear, I'm not going to hijack the podcast and host it this time. I swear, but I do want to ask you a couple of questions about your trade deadline experiences. Because I listened to your post trade deadline podcast today on the treadmill with Down Goes Brown and Elliott. And I was kind of looking forward. to get to hearing your thoughts of the whole experience like the whole from the from the behind the scenes at the at the sports net side of things not necessarily like all the trades and breaking them down and wow

ham use wouldn't wave and all that kind of stuff but just what your thoughts sort of being around you know a trade deadline in sports net yeah well i think i had a much different experience than most of the other guys there because i feel like i wasn't phased at all by the fact that there wasn't really anything going on for the first like five or six hours of the day i was kind of just like walking around just bouncing around and and trying to talk to as many things that pupils I could in introducing myself and then sort of just getting the hang of it and I'm sure a bunch of the other guys there that have been doing this for years now are like oh god this is so boring I can't wait to just go home and have a beer but where I was like man this day like can't like I wish we'll

just keep going I was so sad that it actually wound up ending eventually but no it was a lot of fun and I got to meet a lot of cool people and I think that it kind of gave me a little bit of an appreciation for some of the people that I've in the past poked fun at for some of the things they've said on air because you sort of realized that all of them are just like regular dudes who are actually really nice and you don't get

to get that sort of vibe from them when you listen to them talk about stuff that you might not necessarily be agreeing with hockey-wise so it was kind of fun it gave me a different little perspective but hopefully I'm sure for people listening don't worry I'm still going to keep a little bit of that edge when it comes to discussing

people personalities that are in the industry well I'm glad you caught up with I'm glad I'm glad you guys could have a conversation. That's fantastic to Dimitri. Hey, don't, no, me and Damien are great. Don't, don't try to drag something out of it. No, I know. You know what to meet you. You know what to meet you? The one thing that Damian loved that you did was put up that, that gift of Cliff Pooh of the London Knights. Yes, you love that. A couple of months ago. He's like, oh, wow, I got to find this. Where's this guy? Where's this guy? Wait a minute. I have this guy blocked. Why do I have this guy blocked? I'm like, I don't know. I have no idea. We're animated conversations on Friday night hockey. Anyway, World Cup talk.

Yes. So for those they missed it, which I don't know how they could have. I feel like everyone is on Twitter all day, and especially in the afternoons, no one's actually working. People are just keeping up with what's going on in the hockey world. And the preliminary rosters were announced today. It was a, I think every team announced 16 of the 23 spots. So let's try and not use the word snub because it's quite possible that most of the guys that are quote unquote snubs will wind up making the team eventually on June 1st. So I guess they're more omissions than snubs. So I don't know.

I think we're, let's start with Team Canada. I think that it's sort of tough to quibble. Like all of it's really nitpicking because they have just have such a wealth of, of talent to choose from that it's, it's not like, I remember when we were discussing the, we were previewing the World Junior tournament back in December.

And we were saying how, uh, in recent years, hockey Canada is kind of more so embraced, actually just bringing their best players and, and hoping that they'll all eventually, mesh and fit and work together just because they're so talented that they can't not do that. Whereas in past years, they'd sort of try and fit guys into roles where you'd be like,

well, this guy is more of a third line, fourth line type, so he'll fit in in this tournament more so kind of playing a role he's familiar with. And I think the interesting thing for me is for people that look at it from an NHL perspective and still believe that a fourth liner has to resemble a certain type of player and certain type of style. It's funny that in this tournament where, you know, you'd think that pretty much every player is in play that the guys are sort of assembling their roster this certain way. And obviously, every NHL team is not going to have the luxury of having, you know, Ryan Getslap be their fourth line center. But I'm saying that it's sort of the philosophy

is something that you can really kind of translate and take into account moving forward towards the NHL. Yeah, I think the last time you and I were on talking about that World Junior Tournament, we talked about the Sochi Mall. And that's what this is as well. It's, you know, Ryan Jankowski and everyone in Hockey Canada have this idea. And it's quite simple. And you nailed it too, or once upon a time. And the touchstone for this was 98 in Nagano, where you wanted a fourth liner to do what a fourth liner does in the NHL.

Damn it. The idea now is you put the best players on and you assume that skill is going to adapt. That you hope that, you know, Stephen Stanco is playing, I was going to say Stephen Stancoe is playing out of position. But he plays more a wing and he plays center with Tampa. I mean, that's a bad example. But maybe someone like, you know, Tyler Sagan, won't necessarily play center. He'll find himself as a wingary has played that, of course,

in Boston before, and he's on a little bit in Dallas as well. But that's the whole idea, because the one thing that'll jump out of you when you look at this initial 16 from Canada is, man, that's a lot of center. Man, that's a lot of guys that play center. There's your Bergeron. There's your Carter and Crosby and Getslop and Sagan and, you know, question mark besides Stanquist, but John Tavaris and Jonathan Taves. That's a lot of centermen that are going to be asked to adapt, but that's the same thing that they did in Sochi.

And so the model remains the same and the philosophy remains the same. Skill adapts. And that's what Canada is going to go for again this year. To me, one of the big questions is, too, and I'm not the only one to have brought this up. But if Kerry Price doesn't get into any games this year from Montreal, did they let them start in the World Cup? The HABS, I mean. Yeah. That's a tough question to answer.

I mean, I think that all signs point to he should be good to go by then. Like, even if he doesn't play in any more games this year just because the haves are out of it and they decide that it's not really worth it to risk re-injury. Like, he's going to have all summer to rehab and get it, you know, into game shape. So I think if anything, the habs might view that as sort of a, I guess, a more serious kind of preseason training camp vibe, right? Which I think is going to be something that's going to really, permeate into this tournament and I'm not sure for the better where when it's in season obviously guys are

sort of more banged up and there's a higher likelihood that guys will have been injured and might not be available for the tournaments like in the Olympics but it's you're sort of going 110% and going going full bore in that during the NHL schedule then you get into the Olympics and you sort of carry it over and it has a certain intensity and a certain vibe to it and I think that this tournament at least early on will probably not resemble that right like I think it's going to be much more more sort of a lackadaisical and really getting into shape as opposed to really trying to kind of kill the other team and win the tournament. Injuries are going to be fascinating to me because the last time we saw the World Cup was 2004.

It was the last cash grab before the lockouts, you know, where Ted Saskin and Bill Daly were trying to hammer out at the 11th hour, a CBA at Hurley's, you know, the Irish bar in Montreal, not that far from the Bell Center. You know, everyone knew that, you know, when that game was over, the next step was to shut the doors. So injuries really didn't in some ways matter. I just wonder what the reaction is going to be to the tournament this year if a couple of really key players are lost for significant amounts of time after this tournament. And Kerry Price is the obvious one from Montreal, as we've seen is, I mean, he's the franchise there. And where 2004, we all knew was coming.

So did it really matter that a player got injured? well, no, and the player would end up getting paid for the entire lock, for the length that he was injured anyhow. But this time it's different because at this tournament's end. I mean, I know you're going to bring up Olympics, but I think everyone says, well, it's worth it when it comes to the Olympics. I wonder if the vibe will be the same this time around. Let's say, you know, Canada ends up winning the gold,

but Sidney Crosby's injured and it costs the Pittsburgh Penguins the entire season of number 87. Well, Penguins fans say, well, you know what, it's the World Cup and it's a big deal. They're committed every four years, so it was worth it. I'm not so sure that it would be the same vibe as if someone was lost, like, you know, Hasch was in the Olympics and absolutely stung the Ottawa senators that time around. I'll be curious to see what injuries do with fan bases. Because right now, you know, everyone's going to go, yeah, tournament's great, international hockey. That's fantastic until your guy gets hurt.

And then maybe a change your perspective on this whole thing. Right. And I mean, along those same lines, like in Sochi, when John Tavares went down with injury, but the Islanders weren't necessarily as good as they were last year or this year, right? So it was a story. And obviously there was, I'm sure the Islanders themselves weren't very happy with how that transpired. But it didn't have the same sort of impact on the NHL season because it's not like the Islanders were going to win the Cup that year. But yeah, you know, you're right.

If a really good elite player on a contending team just, you know, has some sort of catastrophic. injury that causes him to miss most of the year, if not the entire year. Like, there's going to be a really interesting question how that affects 2020 and moving forward and whether they're going to have to rethink the structure for how, how, like, whether players will even deem it really worth it for themselves. It's going to be interesting, too, because this in a lot of ways is a victory lap for Bill Daly, because this is his portfolio. International hockey has always been the portfolio of Bill Daly.

Things like the Winter Classic and, and new media, was always the Baileywick of John Collins. That was his portfolio. But this has always been Bill Daly's baby. And I know he's got a lot riding on it. It has been working on this a ton, as you can imagine. So we talk about skin in the game and the NHL and the PA have a lot. But I'm guessing this one's pretty personal for Bill Daly, the deputy commissioner of the NHL. This is a big one for Bill. All right. Well, let's get into Team Canada's roster. So I think the goalies were pretty much no-brainers. Luongo's been great. And he was one of the notable omissions just because he was there in Sochi

and he's been so good for the Panthers this year. But I mean, it's tough to argue with what Corey Crawford and Braden-Holpsey have done this year. And Price obviously is the no-brainer. Even though it's a little bit of a wildcard, as you said, he might not actually be on the team if the Canadians decide that it's not worth risking it. But I think that...

But here's the question about the goaltenders. Who's number two? I think it's Holpey, right? Based on what? Not Stanley Cups? Not success. Not big games, not big games. That's true. That's true. Well, I mean... If you go to...

And again, we'll see what happens this year in the playoffs. But as of right now, would you not have to say, Corey Crawford, based on experience in big game situations, he'd be the guy? Yeah. Well, I think... I mean, it feels like Holti because we've seen him play out of his mind this year. He's been... He's already got 40 wins, and he's been fantastic. But if you look at the resume and what Hockey Canada would go by, don't you say Crawford's number two?

Yeah, I think also even just by his play this year, year, right? Or even the past two years, I think it's very easy to sort of dismiss Cory Crawford. It's a lose-lose situation for him, right? Because if he doesn't do well, he's the reason the Blackhawks lost. But if the Black, when the Blackhawks win, it's Patrick Kane and Jonathan Taze and all their other guys kind of scoring the goals and Duncan Keith and everything else. It's never, oh, Corey Crawford, who has a 928 safe percentages here, by the way, no one's really kind of talking about that. And yeah, no, he's been amazing. And I think that they definitely couldn't go wrong with any of those three guys.

I think the question is, what's Mike Smith going to be doing for this tournament? Do you think he's going to be kind of just like sitting at home really, really depressed, just eating a bunch of ice cream? Do you don't want a puck moving goaltender on your roster? What are you thinking? You just want goalies to stand there and stop shots? Who's going to move the puck?

Yeah. Well, I mean, with all Marty St. Louis around this time, they don't really need anyone to carry him around on his shoulders after during the parade. So the rule from Mike Smith isn't really there. Interesting, Marty St. Louis, comparison with then, we'll get to it maybe later with Peter,

Charlie and Ryan Newton Hawkins, but maybe more on that later. Let's do the defense because Dowdy and Keith were obviously no-brainers. And Vlasik, for the casual fan, might have been a little bit of a surprise. But, I mean, he's just, he's so good at everything, just doing it, like, very subtly. And he's never going to blow you away, but he's so effective. And Shea Weber being picked over P.K. Suban, for example, is something that, let's say it wasn't very well received online. And I poked fun of it as well. I don't know.

it's so tough because I think Shea Weber is still a good player He's definitely not better than P.K. Suban at this point of his career But he could Like, it's such a weird timing, right? Because if Suban's the fourth guy and then they announced Shea Weber on June 1st, I don't, as the seventh defenseman, for example, I don't think anyone is really taking that much issue with it

But just because of the timing this way, which might not necessarily even mean how Canada is actually going to deploy their guys or how they think about them it really just throws a monkey wrench into it. Let me play devil's advocate. Because you and I are on the same page about P.K. Suban. And he's on my team every day of the week. Let me play devil's advocate here. The one thing about P.K. Suban is he is prone to the turnover.

Now, I still maintain that he creates more than he costs. And ultimately, I'll take that. He's like, what, 57% hockey player. And I'm going to take that every night of the week. I'm good with that. But if you have someone that's prone to the turnover in a short, short tournament, given that, you know, one of his main assets is creating offense. If you have a forward group that has zero problem creating offense, like, if you run down those names, you know,

Jamie Ban and Sidney Crosby and Tyler Sagan and John DeVarres and Jonathan Taylor, they go right down that list. Like, there's a lot of names. There's a lot of guys that can create offense. If your hockey candidate, are you saying to yourself, do we need a high-risk defenseman whose main caveat is creating offense when we've got a forward group that can do that, and we can leave P.K. Suban off and leave the turnovers at home. Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely not the right person to ask this question, because I understand, I understand the thought process you just laid out, and it makes total sense.

But I'm the type of person that, like, I hate when NHL teams, when they're up 4'1 heading into the third period, they just go into that defensive shell where they turtle and just basically stop playing their game. game and let other teams claw back into it and then everyone's like oh my my coach is is you know so conservative it's like no it's just the way hockey's played every every team does this every team's prone to it and so i'm always of the belief that you should really just be trying to uh to play your game and create as much offense as you can't regard like you can't have too much offense so i think that

it's one of those things where i don't think playing shea Weber over pk suban is suddenly going to submarine team canada like they're so deep and so talented that it won't make that much of a sort of tangible difference. But if you're just trying to optimize the roster, that's where I sort of take issue with it. Yeah, let's not forget to hockey can. I mean, this country is so conservative when it comes to their sport.

You know, we think that, you know, Americans are conservative about football. No, they're not because they're always, you know, always, you know, changing things and the way they approach the game and the way that they attack. Hockey gets dragged, kicking and screaming into innovation into new ways of thinking. You know, I think we've been blanketed by history.

I think that we, as Canadian hockey fans and as hockey entities, I think we have so much that we're dragging with us that it's hard to do anything. I mean, we have the weight of, you know, decades upon decades upon decades of how the game was supposed to be played and success at it. Like, nothing forces you to change more than losing, which is why I still maintain the worst thing that could have happened to Canada is what happened in 1972. They beat the Soviet Union. Now, had they not beaten the Soviet Union, it would have forced hockey, would it force Canada to really have a hard look at itself and perhaps change the way that it played. I say that more than halfway believing it, but another part of me says, well, our country just would have come up with excuses instead.

But, you know, as long as there is, you know, as long as there is that success, I mean, look at the program of excellence. I mean, the program of excellence is sort of hot house that is hockey Canada now. I mean, that came after, you know, internationally, Canada kept getting starched, right? That's what that came from. So when things are going good, and maybe this speaks to your question about Shea Weber, when things are going good with Canada, we don't like to change things, even though, and this is part of the success of Glenn Seather with the Oilers, I mean, he always maintained every year, even if you're winning, especially if you're winning, actually, you need to change your roster 15%. Just to keep things fresh and keep some hungry guys in that room

because once complacency sets in, you're dead. And look what happened after Salt Lake City. I mean, Canadians, Canadian hockey people are loyal, and they will bring back those that had success with them before. And we're seeing this on this roster. And ultimately, if, listen, if Shea Weber is nowhere near the same, Shea Weber we saw in Sochi will point to the same reason. It's a Canadian loyalty they have with their hockey players that bring home gold medals.

That kind of keeps them away from making some really hard choices sometimes. That's my thought. It really moves very conservative in this country. And let's not forget to, if I can get even more sort of artsy about this thing, one of the main differences in Margaret Atwood would always point this out, where you look at our neighbors to the United States, I mean, their mentality is conquer, conquer the land. You know, go West Young Man, tame the land.

It's all about conquering. We're at an overcoming where, you know, we live in a country that has four very distinct seasons. Geographically, we're really spread apart. You know, there's about 30 million people, 35 million people in this country over a geography that's only rivaled by Russia. We have an aesthetic of endurance, not conquer. And you see it in every element of our society. And you see it in hockey as well. Right.

There's like a little bit of a possessive nature where it's like it's our sports. so we're trying to, I guess, not lose rather than trying to go out and win it, right? It's sort of like a little bit of a foregone conclusion or a little bit of an attitude where it's like, yeah, like Canada should be winning this tournament, so let's not do it to rock the boat and mess that up. Which is bizarre too, because one of the things that we bitch and moan about here in Canada so often is how the rest of the world doesn't appreciate the game the way we do and how come the rest of the world isn't playing the game that we do.

But then when another country has a nerve to pick up a hockey stick and get better at then us, we get very defensive about it. Well, hang on, Canada. You can't have it both ways. If you want this game to be exported internationally, there's going to come a time when someone is better than you. And you know what? It's going to be the people to yourself right now.

It's going to be the United States. Right. Well, it's that old hip strategy, right, where you keep, when there's like some local band that no one knows of, you keep telling your friends to listen to it. And then as soon as your friends start listening to it, you're like, hey, man, that's not cool. like like i was listening to them way before you were you can't adopt them like i used to love i used to love

you right tuned out after boy man after that he stole that man uh so let's okay so that we named the four defensemen um i assume they're going to bring three more on june first um so the names obvious names are pk there's letang there's uh petrangelo brodie gerrano brent burns berns brian campbell i mean the list goes on and on there you can really choose from anyone. Did you put Seabrook? Who were the three guys? Did you put Seabrook in there?

I didn't put Seabrook in the list. I don't know. I just think there's better options. I think so too. But don't forget, I mean, we were even saying that, I mean, we were at orientation camp in Calgary before Sochi and we were saying like, and they really bring Seabrook. And, you know, the feeling was in a short tournament like that, you want to, if you have players that have instant chemistry with one another, you know, as opposed to

spending a whole tournament looking for it, it's best just to say, you know what, these guys play well together. Let's keep them. I'm not saying it's the right thing, but again, going back to a very conservative-concerted country. Just let, just let Shea Weber and Brent Seabrook do rock paper scissors and whoever wins. Brent Burns is an interesting one, though. Yeah. No, I like that.

He's at a remarkable year. He's having a great year, and no one's talking about a lot for Norris Trophy. I mean, he's taking so many shots. His shoulders are going to fall off. I mean, I, listen, I love Brent Burns. I know that, you know, we talk about, you know, prone to be, when he was a winger, I mean, he was a wild man. And it was, like, so hard to play with. fun to watch and he does have sort of some of that element as a defenseman but i i think he may be

as far as like elite level d men go he may be the most underrated guy in the nchl nobody talks about brent burns and there was a time like you remember the little championships when it was in quebec city in alifax like that was a big coming out party for brent burns and that was oh man now all of a sudden that's the next great canadian defenseman then there were concussion issues and various injuries and he sort of never achieved that but i i i still don't know that but i still still see that defenseman in Brent Burns. I got all the time in the world of that guy. Yeah, and I have to admit I was a little bit wrong on him because I thought that he should

have stayed a winger, just because he was so good with Joel Thornton. And obviously, I mean, it's one of those things where I guess you're trying to maximize value because you could really put anyone with Joel Thornton, and they'd probably wind up looking really good. Oh, hi, I didn't say, like, yes, exactly. It just, the list goes on and on. But no, like, he was so dominant for that. I guess it was a full year or a year and a half where, uh, they were.

They were playing on like 16 minutes a night, but basically for each one of those shifts that he was taking in those 16 minutes, it was like the ice was so heavily slanted in the shark's favor. And it's the opposite of Bufflin because I've always thought that Buffaloan is so much better as a defenseman and just kind of freeing to do a lot more. But Burns has been really good this year. And I think that he's on my, he's on, on that list of like the top 10 guys or so that are in that in that Norris discussion. I mean, Carlson's going to run away with it. But he's been just just the volume of. offense he's been generating is really kind of a stoutening. Yeah, it is.

And I remember when he was a winger, I mean, because you're right, the rink would tilt as he skated along the ice wherever you went because, you know, defensemen didn't know what to do with them. Like there's, there are very predictable things that a lot of players do in the NHL. And the only thing you can do is hope you're quick enough to react to them. But with Brent Burns, like, honestly, I'm not kidding. He was a wild man. Like asking him of his line mates are like, wow, man, it's so hard.

It's hard to play with him. He's great. We love him. He's fantastic. He's got so many skills. Man, sometimes we don't know where he's going. Because he was a defenseman for so long,

even though he had flip-flop before, the point where I thought that every now and then San Jose would be kind of well-served by playing him up front for a game or two here and there, just to throw defense's off because he is so unconventional as a winger. And that, to me, made it just so much fun to watch. because, you know, normally wingers, although it is changing now, you know, are kind of like table hockey and just sort of patrol and go up and down the boards. And that wasn't Brent Burns. Well, he was, he was out there.

I mean, you're much more of a hockey historian than I am, so maybe you can answer this. but do you ever remember a guy sort of doing that where even if it's like in game where the team just decided like listen he's going to spend like half this game playing up front and then the other half of the game on the blue line and the other team is it must like sort of just it would probably drive the other teams coach crazy right because you couldn't really account for like what was happening on the fly you'd be like you'd be like looking at the guys on the ice and he'd be like wait a second is burns what is he doing right now who's he playing with like what's going on right i feel like it'd be it'd be a nightmare at least until teams kind of caught on to if you had a pattern or something like that. Red Kelly won four Stanley Cups as a defenseman with two different teams, Detroit and the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's the answer to one of the great trivia questions of all time, which is who holds the record for the most Stanley Cups with eight and never played for either the Oilers or the Montreal Canadians. And, you know, Red Kelly was one of those guys who could play both positions, could play up front and could play defense and could bop back and forth.

But I always thought that, you know, a couple of things that I've been pining for. One, defensemen that can take face-offs in their own zone. That used to be a thing. Alan Stanley would do that. Ray Bork used to actually do that with Boston. And if you look at it from a coach's point of view, it actually does line up a lot better when you can have a defenseman take your face-offs. I know it's not a skill, but defensemen necessarily work on anymore.

So that day is probably gone. And the other is the guy that can play up and back. does so in the same game. Like we've seen, of course, we've seen defensemen, you know, oh, you know, spot duty, oh, we need just a winger on the fourth line. You're a seventh defenseman. We've seen that before. But there's still some things that I think we're all sort of waiting to see happen,

that next sort of evolution of hockey player. And it's for me, the guy that can play both back and up front. Yeah. I mean, it must be such a tough thing to do. That's, I guess that's why guys like Bufflin and Burns are such a rare breed. They're just such unique specimens, right? That they can do both very effectively without any sort of noticeable kind of, kind of growing pains or bumps along the wood?

Well, Mark Strait. Mark Strait was that guy, right? I mean, Mark Strait was that guy with Montreal. So there are some of them still sort of out there, but no, yeah, none of them to the excellence that is, you know, buffalo or Brent Burns. Okay. So do we think who are the other three guys then? P.K. Latang has to be on there.

Assuming he's healthy, which is a big assumption at this point. I mean, there's so much time for him to get injured between now and now and then. Of course. Let me throw a wild name out of you maybe. What about T.J. Brody? Yeah. Well, I know you love to Jay Brody. Well, it's my two kids' names, and I swear there's name before that before he, before he popped, although I did see him play in the O.HL.

See, Hockey Canada likes to always sort of bring someone. You know who you don't sort of expect to giving Jonathan Dave's to the World Championships, right? It wasn't true, Doughty, the seventh in Vancouver as well. He ended up being, like, the best defenseman. on the team. So they always bring one that kind of makes you go, really? And you kind of look at it sideways.

I do wonder if T.J. Brody could be that guy this time around. Yeah, no, it's possible. I mean, there's a long list of guys they could pick from. Like, I don't know if Mark Giordano, his own teammate, for example, might be ahead of him on that pecking order. And like where does a guy like Petrangelo, who's sort of not in the forefront of our minds right now just because he's been injured,

but he's also a really, really good player. Yep. And they wanted him along with Jay Bowman. Mr. for Sochi. But the thing about Giordano, that would be working against him would be his age.

Like, if hockey can is going to kind of go off the board, generally they bring someone younger into the elite level program at the pro level, as opposed to like, hey, it's the last hurrah

for Mark Giordano internationally. Alex did the old guy of favor and bring him on. He's still got some game. Well, another guy, similarly, like, he's not going to make the team under any circumstances,

but a guy like Brian Campbell this year has been so sneaky amazing. Like, no one really realizes it. Obviously, the Ekblad sort of gets all the hype on that blue line, but he's just been so good at, he just does everything well, right? It's that sort of thing where he skates so well that he's able to disrupt offense without necessarily being overly physical and has a really

good stick and is very active. And he's so good at moving the puck that everything just comes together and he's the perfect two-way defenseman. And I think that every time Tom Gilbert gets paid, he should send a portion of his paycheck to Brian Campbell. Because in Florida, as you all know those two are outstanding yes uh okay let's move up front i don't think there's very much argument like i saw the biggest omissions were guys like matt duchayne and and corey perry and that's fine but i i love the line you were mentioning earlier where doug armstrong went on tv and he was like it's kind of this tradition of slide centers over to the wing i mean you have got when you have crosbie bergeron tvers daves get slaff like someone's going to have to move to the middle and i think

that i say again and stamcoes are the two most obvious candidates to just sort of move on to a wing and basically be hired guns to score goals, right? Yeah, that'll happen. I mean, Jeff Carter's played something in his past as well. So that wouldn't, I don't think, surprise anyone. Actually, you know, one of the more fascinating things for me to watch, I remember being at Team Canada orientation camp before the Vancouver Games that summer. And the forwards were being run through, like, these really elite level, like, really hard drills.

They're all playing different positions, too. Like, they really, like, the coaching staff really wanted to get the guys thinking. and that guys were making mistakes, like big-name guys, at Crosby's making mistakes, and Mike Richards is making mistakes, and Rick Nash is making mistakes and getting called back. The only guy that nailed it, like every single,

every time he was out there on every single shift was Jonathan Taves. Whether they played him on the wing or they played him in the middle. He was like, it was blowing all of us where he was like, yep, there's another excellent one by Jonathan. Like, it was remarkable. So I don't think that he plays the wing,

but I don't think that he would be out of place playing going if they wanted Jonathan Taves to do that. Like every drill, honestly, like, to me too, it was freaking uncanny. Like, every single drill, he was like the best player on the ice at every position. So who's someone that's not amongst the list of guys that was named to the team today

that you think has to be on this team? I think Corey Perry does. I think that in a tournament like this, You need someone that can score an easy goal. Like you know those games where it's like, oh, it's two to one and the pressure's on and we can all feel it. And if you have to grind for every single goal in this tournament, it's going to be agony. You just need someone that can snap one in out of nowhere. It's always made someone like Phil Castle, like a really valuable guy because he can take pressure off.

Like I know Phil's got his drawbacks and those are well told, but he can score an easy goal. He can just come out of the wing and it goes in the net. Like you just need someone like that. that and I think Cory Perry's that guy. Someone that can score the easy goal to take the pressure off because in a tournament like this, if you have to grind it out for every single goal, that is exhausting both physically and mentally as well. And if you have someone that can just come down the wing and bing, it just goes in the net

because that's what you do. I think that's one of the most valuable things you can have. So to me, Corey Perry is the guy. Yeah. No, that's fair. I think for me, for me, for me, it's Brad Marchon. I think that, yeah, and obviously some of it. But he can score an easy goal.

too. He can score an easy goal too. He's going to score like 35 goals this year. And it's one of those things where I can, I know, understand that some of the shenanigans kind of rub people the wrong way, but he's just such a good player. And you were speaking about the chemistry earlier. I think it's a no-brainer to put him with Patrice Berseran and basically have them blanket the other team's best line.

And just looking ahead, like when they have to play team North America, which has a ton of speed and we can discuss that in a second, I think that having Marchon and Bergeron to try and kind of keep up with those guys and slow down their top players is is going to be a really good strategy so i think that i'd be surprised if marchion doesn't make this team yeah i'd also be surprised if taylor hall doesn't make this team um you know there's you know if you want to talk about speed too i mean i think you have to have him on the left side um and you will need to have i know jamy benz but you do need to have some natural wingers i think on this thing i think there's only so many

sentiment you can have to fly away. It's kind of ridiculous. Should allow traits, right? Hey, we got a lot of sentiment here. Anyone want to, anyway. Yeah, I would say that Taylor Hall is probably in that mix as well. Okay, let's move over to North America, as we mentioned the U-23 team, which isn't technically, like, as far as I understand it, kind of growing up and playing sports,

when you say you something, it means under that age, right? But 23-year-olds are actually on this team, so it's technically a U-24 team. Exactly. Exactly. They call it the U-24 then because it's 23 and under, so as you call the U-24. I'm with you. That's why you look at the World Junior Championships

every year is the U-20, which means under 20. Also, how did they come up with the distinction? I think 23 is just seems like a very random number. That's a really good question. I don't know how they came up with 23. You know what? CJ would be all over that.

It's a good thing to ask Chris Johnson. I think maybe you sort of looked at it and said, okay, so how young can we make this team, but still, you know, allow them to be competitive. Like, we want to have as many guys who aren't just first-year players on this thing. I would imagine you'd say to yourself, okay, we need to have guys that have at least played three years in the NHL.

And not everyone's making the NHL right at other draft year. And you could have as many as, you know, five years, six years. If you're on this team, if you're like, you know, Brandon Saud or something like that, you need someone that has some type of experience. We just, Sean Guture is an even better example, someone that's been in the NHL or players that have played in the NHL more than just, you know, one full season. So I think that's probably where they set it and said, we need guys that have had at least a few years of NHL experience just so they don't get trounced.

And I think everyone's expecting them to get trounced. But man, if I'm picking a dark horse, like this is the most interesting team to me to watch. This going away, and already it's my favorite team, right? Like I'm not someone at all my passport says Canadian. I'm going to cheer for Canada. I'm cheering for Team North America. So it's fascinating, Dimitri. What about you?

Yeah, no, well, there'll be the funnest team to watch just to see how they kind of adapt and hang with some of these other older, more experienced teams. But there's just so much speed, right? Like, you look at guys like McKinnon and McDavid and Saad, as you mentioned. You go on down the lineup and it's just, it's crazy. They're going to be very difficult to play against and very fun to watch for us. I think the funny thing for me is that assuming we're still doing this thing in 2020, McDavid is still going to be on this team because he's not going to be 24 yet.

So it's funny that he could very well be the best play. See, here's the thing about McDavid to me in this team is I am hoping for one thing and one thing only from this team. Like, I'm just going to watch and play. I'm going to have a lot of fun. This is a team I'm going to be cheering for. I want Team North America to do really well, knowing full well, they may not. But I just hope that they play two players. And you know who I'm thinking of here too, right?

Connor McDavid on a line with Dylan Larkin. I don't care who's on the left side. I just want to see that kind of speed. I just want to see that kind of performance. Because whether it's playing with the Uriotters and guys couldn't keep up, I can't tell you how many times we saw Connor McDavid make incredible plays and throw a pass to Nick Betts or Alex De Brinket or Nick Babette, or Nick Baptiste and they weren't ready for it because no one thinks and plays at his level.

Ditto with the Edmonton Oilers for the linemates that he has. Like guys are just like, whoa, like I wasn't expecting that. I get the sense that, you know, Connor McDavid and Dylan Larkin could really be something special together. And here's the other reason. As someone that follows junior hockey, I remember specifically in Philadelphia when Dylan Larkin was drafted by the Detroit Red Wings, I sort of threw my papers up in the air and said, well, they're going to be. goes that dream and you know what that was demetriam he gets drafted by the detroit red wings he's committed to the university of michigan there's no way that detroit is going to encourage a player

to de-commit from michigan and go to junior hockey if it were another team you say yeah you know what dylan larkin's close let's get him into the ohh lichel for a year maybe two but probably only one because this guy's close to the n hl guess who held his rights in the ontario hockey league The Erie Otters. He would have played a full season. Connor McDavid and Dylan Larkin could have played a full season together in junior hockey. They would have destroyed the O.H.L. But it was not to be, right?

Because he ended up going to Michigan and good for him. Detroit wasn't going to pressure him to do anything other than go to play for Red Bearers and squad. So I'm just dying to see Connor McDavid and Dylan Larkin play together. This, even though it will never make up for not being able to see them play with the Erie Otters together, this will go a long way to sort of satisfying my what-if question. what if two of, if not the fastest players in the game, got to play on the line together. Yeah, just put a radar gun on the wing with them

and have that it. No, that'll be remarkable to watch. That would be great. Who would you put on the left side, Johnny Goodrow? Yeah, you couldn't go wrong with that. You definitely want to put someone that's not going to be like just absolutely overwhelmed by their speed. You need someone that's going to be able to at least kind of keep up

and think as fast as they are at least because they're probably not going to, You're probably not going to find anyone else that's going to be able to move as fast as they are, but you need someone to at least be in the right spots. Hey, do you think this tournament like this, because, listen, I've been, you know, banging on the drum for a while, I'm sure you have as well. Do you think this could be a coming out party for Sean Couturee? Yeah, well, I was amazed that he's still eligible for this team. Like, I was like, wait, he's still only 23 years old.

It feels weird. Him and Brandon Saad both just feel like they've been around forever. Well, Sads, I mean, because we've seen Sot in the postseason so much, right for so long. You just think like, wow, this guy's, oh, well, no, he just been watching him for a lot of months. He doesn't vanish in April, like some of the other young players. He's still playing on into June. I hope so, man, because I, I mean, there's two guys from that Drummondville team that I'm getting my junior hockey on here now.

There's two guys from that team that I really loved, and the other was Andre Palat. And I still think that Palat is sort of that, like, poor man's hosa slash Zetterberg kind of player who, you know, fell so late in the draft because everyone just thought he was a product of Sean Couturier with his team. But I've always loved Sean Coutureate to, like, I've been knocking on everyone's doors saying, like, this guy is better than you think. And this guy is offensively better than you think, too. And somewhere down the road, this guy has to be in the conversation for the Selkees trophy. Well, just, I mean, it seems like sort of an old added, but it's true that it's so tough for a young player to instantly come into the NHL and just be handed all those tough defensive minutes. And he's never really looked out of place. and, you know, some people have been critical of him, like, oh, this guy was a top 10 pick.

He should be producing more offensively. But, like, if you look at all the five-on-five production numbers and sort of his rate stats, it's like, it's pretty clear that he's, if he's not a star yet, he's a burgeoning star, where it's just a matter of time and opportunity where he's going to absolutely explode. And people are going to be like, whoa, where does this come from? And it'll be like, he's been dropping breadcrumbs here, letting us know that it's eventually going to happen. And, you know what? Sometimes like that, it happens when, you know,

you play best on best and you have, you know, players around you that are at the elite level. And so you sort of, you know, look every year in a tournament like this, like that'll be one of the big questions. Like, who is this tournament going to make? Like, who's going to arrive at this tournament? Who are we going to say like, wow, this guy just planted the flag in the moon and he's there? Like, who's that guy?

I wonder if that could be Sean Coturier. Yeah, no, very well could be. He's probably going to be given a massive role playing against the other team's best players. So he'll have to really handle a lot of that pressure. All right, let's do one final team before we wrap this up, and totally unrelated to Team Canada and Team North America, but it's the Russian team, which is interesting to me just because the disparity

between their forward group and their blue line is as dramatic as you could possibly make it be, right? Like, they have three or four of the most, just dynamic, prolific offensive players up front, and then their blue line is like, what, Andre Markov, who's approaching 40 years old, and that's about it. Like, I like Dimitri Orlov as much as the next guy, but I don't think he's ready for this sort of a role that he's going to have to handle on his team.

And there's just a lot of, it's basically going to be Semyon Rolamov, which he's, I guess he's used to during his time in Colorado trying to stand on his head with no D in front of him, or whether it might be Sergey Babrovsky, who's also had some experience during that in Columbus. and basically they're going to just hope to, I think they're not going to, they have a very small likelihood of actually winning this tournament or even kind of competing up there

with some of these other better teams, but they're going to be really fun to watch just because whenever you can get guys like Malkin and Ovechkin in the same team, it's must watch. If they can get the puck out of their own zone. And this has been the unraveling of Russian teams now. I mean, the long gone, I mean, you go back to the Anatoli-Terosov era

and, I mean, they were like juggerna, on the blue line. Like Russia produced, you know, elite level defensemen for a lot of years. And that just stopped. Like, for whatever reason, I'm sure someone a lot smarter than me can tell me why. But Russia just stopped producing defensemen. Everybody wanted to be a for it. All the elite level guys became forwards. And you got, you know, Datsuk, and you got Malkin, and you got Ovechkin, and you got, you know, Kuznetsov. And, like, though, that's what Russia was producing. And, you know, when all the Finnish goaltending instructors started, you know, heading over to Russia, all of a sudden. you started to see the Russian goaltending, that top-down information program like we saw in Finland,

like we saw in Sweden, you started to see Russia developing elite-level netminers. But the one area that's been sorely lacking is on the blue line, and that's what undid them in Sochi. Like, you go right to ask anyone what happened to Russia. And let's say the same thing. Bad blue line. That they haven't been able to produce elite-level defense in the way they have forwards. Now, you can say that's changing, and maybe it is. And Ivan Proveroff might be the beginning of that, the Philadelphia draft pick, the kid playing with the Brandon Weekings.

There's another who's going to go in the top 10 this year, Mikkel Sargatchev, who plays with the Spitfires. I mean, he may even sneak into the top five. This guy is fantastic. So there are some good young Russian defensemen on the horizon, but there's a whole generation there where they just didn't make defensemen. And they're still paying for it. Like, sure, there's a guy, Kulikov sort of sneaks to who he ends up in the queue playing for Drummondville. hey, they got one through. You know, Orlaa shows up, and he's been really good for the caps this year,

and we all know about Andre Markov, but they have spent a lot of time not developing defensemen, and they're paying for it still. And they'll pay for this tournament as well. I'm with you. Like, it'll be exciting to watch when they have the buck in the offensive zone. Just don't expect it to be easy to get it there because they just want to have the defense when they can hang. Yeah.

It's kind of a shame that no KHL guys are going to be playing for them because I always sort of. Are you sure about that? I thought the decision was going to be made after the little championship. Yeah, I guess that's possible. I thought I saw a headline that said that they weren't. But, I mean, I hope they are just because I always like these sort of tournament just because I get to see guys like Radgilov and Kowchuk

where we don't get to see them on a daily basis. And it's kind of fun to have them in our lives for a couple weeks. You want me to feel really old? You want me to sound really old right now? Demetri, here goes. Here's one of my issues of international hockey right now. And I love it. I'm bought and paid for.

Like I'm sold. I'll watch this stuff and I'll love it, right? Because it's best on best. It's cool, man. It's great hockey and sign me up for that any day of the week. But what's lost is the mystique. Like 72 had that. There was a mystique.

76 had that. There was a mystique. Even though 81 had that. There was still a mystique because we didn't see these guys before. You know, we only, you know, we only heard of the KLM line. Every now and then they, you know, show up as the Red Army would do a barnstorm and tour of the NHL. And we get a peak of them, 87. Oh, the KLM line and their full powers.

What are they really like? Like you never saw that. I remember in 1970s was a big tournament for me in my youth. And I remember, you know, my father telling me about the Stasthenes, you know, these young kids playing for Czechoslovakia and, you know, what they were all about. Certainly we had Boris Salman playing for Toronto Police, and there he was playing for Sweden. And man, did that look weird seeing him in the Trey Kroner jersey? There was still a mystique about these players.

I remember talking to Peter Stasi, years and years later when I was a, working at a radio station doing a noon hour hockey show. And we were talking about 1976. And I was like, you know what? As a young kid that was really, you know, cool. Like my dad would tell me about, you know, this young kid, Peter Stasney, playing for Czechoslovakia, who was this amazing talent. And he said, oh, that tournament was hard.

That tournament was hard for me personally. He said, why? He goes, because the dressing room was split right down the middle. And there were Slovaks on one side and checks on the other. And he said it was nasty. Like the fact that we got to the final against Canada was a miracle. Vladimir Zirilla, you know, the refrigerator repairman turned gold tender stood on his head and was remarkable the entire tournament and in that final game against Canada until Siler won in overtime. But he said that was, that was tough because as political as you might suspect it was, it totally was in the dressing room.

So, but there was that mystically, and that's a part of that I think is the attraction for the World Junior Hockey Championships, the U.S. Because you hear about these guys, you read about them online, you get some YouTube clips and a couple of gifts, but you never really see them play. And then at the U-20, you know, that mystique comes down because finally, you know, you get to see Panarin and, you know, Teresenko and Kuznetsov, that great line from the Buffalo tournament. Think about that for a second. Terenceko-Kisnets up in Panarin. On the same line in Buffalo, you look back on a night, like, Jesus, holy smoke, suddenly, anyone able to get the puck away from them. But that's, but part of that's lost now because I think a cynic would look at this and the Olympic hockey tournament as well and say,

it's nice, it's great, it's fantastic hockey, but it's a bunch of NHLers mixed up with different jerseys right now. Yeah, no, you're right. I think that, wow, you really just bummed me out a little bit there. That's a... No, listen, dude, listen, Shira. Sure up. Wonderful thing, because the hockey is going to be fantastic.

The only thing that's missing now in international hockey is the mystique, because you just, at the pro level because they're all playing in the NHL. That's why, to your point, and I'm with you, it would be nice to see some players from other countries pro loops playing in something like the World Cup. Because you do see that at the Olympics. Not necessarily sure you're going to see that at the World Cup of hockey. Yeah, I mean, especially with teams like Austria and stuff, right,

where you get Severn, Blindenbacher and all these guys. You're like, wow, this is amazing. Like, check out some of these names. And then you go hockey DB, for example, or elite prospects, and you look up the numbers these guys are putting up and where they've been playing for their careers. And I don't know, it's like I've always found it to be sort of a fun rabbit hole to go down. What I would like to see this thing turn into as well, I know that come into this every four years is have it, you know, have it in different places where there's a unique flavor to the hockey. Like, the way hockey is presented in Germany is different than the way hockey is presented in the USA, which is different than the way hockey is presented in Latvia, which is different. that it's presented in Russia, which is different than it's presented in Sweden or Canada or

go right down the list. I just hope that we get to a point where this is popular enough that you can take it to strong hockey countries that have a great and very unique way to present the game. And front and center to me is Latvia. To me, there are no better hockey fans in the world than Latvians. Latvians will sing and cheer and have fun and get drunk and have a great time. And vote for Zemgus Gorgensens. That's right. And vote for Zemgus Kiergensens. And everyone will say that's fine, as opposed to those ogres that voted for John Scott,

who were destroying the All-Star game. More on that on another podcast. But the Latvians just don't care. They think hockey is great. They think it's a lot. They have, to me, the Latvians have the best perspective on the game, period. No one loves it the way that the Latvians do. And I'd love to see something like this in Latvia.

Yeah. Well, and if you watch just that one game against Canada, you think they'd also have the best goal in the world. and Chris was a goodleskus. Oh, man, you scared the hell out of everybody. Ted Nolan, what are you doing? I'm scared Canada like that. It was fantastic, wasn't it?

It was great. Yeah, no, it was fun. I always remember stuff like that. All right, yeah, we just did like 50 minutes on the World Cup of Hockey, and the Hockey Pee-O cast will have a part two coming tomorrow where we're going to look at some of the other rosters. So I don't know. I know there's going to be some of those bad apples out there.

They're going to go like, I can't believe you guys devoted this much time to a World Cup of hockey. Who cares about this stuff? It's so far away. I mean, it's fun. It's sort of fun, kind of fantasy book this stuff and discussing different combinations, as you said, even though guys are ultimately just kind of wearing different jerseys and mixing it up all together.

Like, it's fun seeing a little something new like this. But it's okay. You know what it's okay, too? Because it harkens back to a, whenever I see tournaments like this, I'm always curious. And, you know, General Fanager always sort of puts up the salary cap stats. It harkens back to, you know, what could you do with the best players in the world? role playing against each other without a salary cap. So never going to see that again in the NHL.

Just this idea of putting juggernaut teams together, which you can't do in the NHL anymore. Yeah. And if you do, it's going to be like one year and then you're going to have to black ox and trade, and I'll trade a bunch of no way. Yeah, that's it, right? Like, listen, I don't want to bum you up, man.

You're my buddy, Demage. Come on, we're colleagues now. We're in the same shop. I want to cheer you up a little bit here, pal. Come on. We hung out in Vancouver together when I was here. When I had a Mexican food meal, you hung out with me at sports center for trade deadline.

It's cool, man. Don't bum up. Hey man, it's getting fun, buddy. It's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. Now, just pay the receptionist on the way. You cheered me up. I'm back on board. All right, you got you.

We got you. All right, cool. Jeff, man, thanks for taking the time to do the show. It's always fun. Dude, always, man. I'm always here for you. Cool. Okay, well, we'll talk soon.

See, bye. As you surely heard of the top, sponsoring today's show is FreshBooks, an online service that's designed to help make life easier for small business owners and freelancers like URI. It can do. just that by providing tools such as automatically importing expenses from your bank account, or not having to keep hard copies of receipts lying around the house,

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and you don't even have to go through the hassle of entering your credit card to sign up like in most other places. All you have to do is go to freshbooks.com slash PDOCAST and just make sure to enter Hockey P.D.O.cast in the How you heard about a section? And after that, you can immediately start making your life easier today. Joining me is Jen Lute Kostela. Jen, how's it going? I'm great. How are you? I'm good. Yesterday I had Jeff Merrick. on and we previewed the team Canada, the U-23 version of Team North America, and I think Team Russia as well in part one.

And we just went so long that we decided to break this World Cup of Hockey preview into two parts and have you on to discuss the American team because it felt a little disingenuous with both of us being, both of us being Canadians, not having a red-blooded American on to discuss the U.S. team. So it's good to have you on. My red, white, and blue blood is here to help. So let's discuss this roster because, and we should note that it's the first 16 names and there's still seven people to come. So there's no, there's no necessary snubs or real, really omissions that we can kind of get too worked up about because they very well could wind up being on the roster. But I think the most obvious thing that stuck out to me was just an abdlocator being on this team.

What do you make of that? You know, I'm so confused. I guess they, you know, I was looking at Lombardi's comments about, he's not trying to pick the best players, he's trying to pick the right players. And, you know, like, I get it if he's talking about building a roster for a whole season. Right. But in a short tournament, I want guys who are going to go in there and, like, score their butts off. You know, I mean, advocator is great at standing in front of the net and getting, you know,

hit by pucks that Ben bounce into the net and stuff, not taking anything away from him. But I just, I don't get that one. I think there are plenty of other options that, you know, can play on either side of a center that are better. Yeah, well, that's the weird thing. Canada always used to do this and then sort of in Sochi, they revamped their selection process where they'd always try to pigeonhole guys for certain roles in the lineup and be like, oh, well, this guy is more of a grinder, third-run type, so he's going to fit in in that role

on this team. And they quickly realized that when you have such a wide array of talents that you can choose from that you should probably just take the best guys, especially when you never know when you're going to need to score a goal or generate offense. I mean, we saw that in Soshe, with Team, the team U.S., where they couldn't really score against Canada or Finland their last two games. And I think that having as many goal scores, whether they're guys like Phil Kessler or Bobby Ryan or whatnot, would be beneficial. But of course, those guys could wind up being on the team by the time they finalize it on June 1st.

Right. Yeah. And I mean, I just, I don't get. particularly in a short tournament, I don't even get it for an NHL roster, of trying to be like, well, this guy's a third line type of guy, and this is what we envision, and this is a hearth liner, you know, we're going to take grinders for this.

Like, come on, no. You know, particularly in a tournament like this, you can have four scoring lines. Easily you can have four scoring lines. There's a glut of players, you know, even for the United States, he doesn't have as many players as Canada, that you can just put, like,

four amazing scoring lines out there and be like, wow, this is awesome. This looks really good. Well, there's this weird thing going on with Justin Albuqueror where Dean Lombardi had had this quote where, and I quote, he says, this is a kid. He's very difficult to play against and he's only going to get better. And I don't think people necessarily realize that Justin Ablickator just turned 29 years old. It's like the whole, it's the whole like a young Joe Pavelski thing where people kept talking about how young applicators.

Yeah, he was going to take the reins from Joe Thornton and he was going to be the next wave of of kind of leadership quality star player for the sharks. I was like, Joe Polvelsky's turning 32 years old this summer. Like, I don't know where this is coming from. There are guys who I think, I think to myself, man, that guy's been in the league forever. And then I was like, wait a minute, why is he on the young guns team? Like, Brandon's sad. You know what I mean?

Like, I saw him on the young guns team and I was like, what the? Oh, yeah. He is really young. You know, like sometimes I think he's. get. But on the other hand, like, once a guy hits 30, okay, really once a guy hits like 27 or 28, you're no longer young in hockey. You know, like, I think of young as being like 25 and under, really. But yeah, it's kind of funny. I mean, there are several guys, well, at least three that I would just boot off the initial roster immediately and not even include them in the expanded roster.

but, you know, I don't know. Apparently, USA didn't seem to come to me your rosters together, whatever. Yeah, who are those three guys, if you don't mind me asking? I would get rid of Kessler, O'Shee, and Abilkator just, like, from the get-go because I think there are plenty of options

that would be a lot better. I mean, I know some people kind of freaked out about Derek Steppen being on there, but I kind of really like him particularly if they put like a Blake Wheeler on his wing because Stepan's a hellraiser. I mean, he just creates turnovers. He finds a way to spring somebody on a rush. You know, he's fast.

He can really like, he can really do some damage. So I could see, you know, like Stepan and Wheeler being together and maybe put a guy like JVR or somebody on the other wing. I mean, they could really, they could score it up. Yeah. No, that'd be a good line. All right, let's move through a blue line. I think that Buffalo and McDonough and Souter were no-brainers. And I guess in theory, Carlson would probably be on my top seven American defensemen list for this team.

But he's just such a weird guy to dissect and talk about because I have this theory that there isn't a single skater in the league, really, that has a bigger divide between his actual statistical resume and the way people discuss him. And also how he looks upon viewing, because he's like this really physically impressive. guy where he's big but he skates well and when he has the puck he seems to do good things with it but for whatever reason his underlying numbers just don't really reflect that he's a top flight defenseman i don't know like what do you what do you make of him as a player you know what i think it is i think physically speaking you're right like he is a specimen you know like he we expect a lot from him because of the way he looks and the way he seems to be able to perform i really think with carlson it's more of a uh speed in decision

making thing with him. He seems like he knows what to do, but sometimes he just doesn't do it quickly enough. He doesn't make that decision quickly enough. He doesn't read the play quickly enough in order to kind of live up to

what we expect him to do physically. And I think for defensemen, there's really nothing that's more important other than obviously being able to like skate and stuff. But I don't think there's anything that's more important than being a really quick decision maker and, you know,

and making a really quick decision that's a good one. And I think that's hard to do sometimes. I mean, that takes a lot of, I think, studying of how you're going to play the game and maybe just some inherent, you know, quickness of mind. And I think maybe that's where Carlson gets into trouble is when he just doesn't make great decisions. Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah, no, that makes sense.

Personally, I think, I think, like, Justin Falk would be good there. Right. And I'd put, like, Jig Gardner out there and stuff like that. Well, there's a lot of guys to choose from, surprisingly, right? I mean, you even have Shaddenkirk and Yandel who can generate a ton of offense for you. And then Nick Letty, Camfowler. I mean, Yandel, Shattonkirk, Lettie, I had all those guys, like, written down, like, you know, if I could take as many defenses as I want, what I put on here.

And so it is kind of tough, like, after a little while. of, so that's why I kind of think Carlson maybe should fall down the depths chart a little bit there because I think there are some other options, even right shots that are better options like Falk and Chatt and Kirk. Yeah, that's tough. There's a bunch of guys there. Maybe you can bring a Nicoletti and just put him on a fourth line wing instead of just an ablacator and just have him fly down. Seriously, I mean, like, if you're looking for zone entries, but, you know, I mean, one guy, I think,

for the forwards at least that I would love to see there's Kyle Parmette, Paul Mary. I think he would be fantastic. I think he's a really underrated player. He doesn't get enough attention. And I think he would be terrific there too. Yeah, I'm not sure how viable his candidacy is for this team, because as you're right, I feel like him playing in New Jersey sort of doesn't really do him. It doesn't a bit of a disservice where he's not on the forefront of people's minds,

but he's had a heck of a year. He's not. And he can play on either side. I mean, he has experience playing on both sides of the ice. So he's versatile in that regard because team USA has like this big giant list of right wings that, you know, they could like choke on. But the left wing area is a little bit thinner. And so if we've already got patch ready and Perise there, maybe you put JVR, put Palmeri over there or something, Bobby Ryan. I think they would be, you know, really well served to have him on there because he's pretty dynamic guy.

Yeah. All right. let's move on through goaltending because there's this interesting thing going on where I think in Canada we struggle to replenish the pipeline past this current generation of guys like Price and Holby whereas with the States I mean you have Helleboik and John Gibson and Matt Murray all coming up and I think those are actually the three goalies on that on that U23 North American team but that's something kind of toward think about down the road for now for this team I think they picked the right three guys ultimately because I don't I don't necessarily see any U.S.

goalies that I think got snub, but the weird thing for me is, unless there's some sort of unforeseen event, it takes place between now and then, I think Jonathan Quick is going to be the guy for them to handle all the important starts, which I think is a shame just because Cory Schneider is just better at stopping pucks, right? Yeah, I mean, honestly, if it was me, Schneider would be my number one, Bishop would be two, and Jonathan Quick would be a distant third. I mean, I think Jonathan Quigg is a tremendous athlete. He does things that I'm like, gosh, I can't even bend my leg that way.

Like, that's amazing. But I think that Schneider and Bishop are really good goalies. You know what I mean? Like they're positional. They don't have to make like crazy acrobatic saves because they're always in the right spot to begin with. And I think that's just a way better style of goaltending and more reliable and more consistent. then having to rely on, you know, doing all sorts of crazy gymnastics in order to try and make a save. I really think it should be Schneider starting the big starts, get Bishop in there too,

and whoever's hot, stick with them of those two. Yeah. But I wouldn't even bother to start quick during it unless there was like an injury or something. Right. And I don't know. I'm not sure how much say Lombardi is going to have in who actually plays. Like he obviously constructed the team, but he's probably going to leave that to his coaching staff. But at the same time, I think that regardless of how they approach this,

Quick has this stature around the league as a big game goalie, who's obviously had playoff success with the Kings. And I think that that's probably going to prevail here. Like, it just seems like the writings on the wall that Schneider is not going to play unless Quick gets injured or gets completely shelled in the first couple of games. And I don't, I don't know if that's going to totally submarine the U.S. chances because we've seen Quick be put together stretches. where he can also play really well and play out of his mind and win some games for his teams.

But ultimately, it's probably not the best usage of assets. Yeah, I mean, I agree that he should be there. He deserves to be there. I'm just saying for my purposes, I would much rather see a really solid positional goaltender like Schneider because I just think it's a way better game plan. But, you know, looking at the roster that they already have, it seems to me at least that Tortorella's already had his fingers in Lombardy's business when it comes to putting the roster together.

You've got these like the Kesslers and the advocators, like the gritty tough guy, you know, work hard, blah, blah, blah guys. I don't know. Maybe we should just beg Peter Lavillette to reconsider and come coach the team instead. Yeah, how did John Tortorello become the choice to run this team? And it's like Ron Wilson was running the US team and the juniors. It's like, couldn't there be a better thought? So many options.

I mean, yeah, there's just, I mean, obviously the U.S. doesn't have as many coaches as coaching options with, you know, pro experience or anything like that as Canada. But I just, I really dislike Tortorella's coaching style. And so, you know, from the get-go, you're going to have a disagreement. with me. I'd much rather see Peter Lovillette in there, but maybe he was too busy or something. You're telling me you haven't been impressed by the Columbus Blue Jackets this season? You know, oddly enough, I have not. I have not. I guess I'm just not big into like the only way to get your players to do anything is to be like this giant dictator who, you know,

benches everybody all the time. And I don't know. I guess there's just different. ways to motivate players that perhaps John Tortorella and I disagree upon. Right. Well, I think last time we had you on the show, you and I specifically discussed how a guy like Artemie Panarin, for example, and the Blackhawks is just such a breath of fresh air because he plays a different way than we're used to seeing from a lot of guys that have come up through the North American system over the years, and he sort of hasn't had that fun coached out of him.

And John Torrell is basically the antithesis of that where I feel like he had. Yeah, he's like the fun hater president. If he had to coach Artemi Panarin, I feel like he'd have a stroke or something because just like... Panarin would be sitting in the press box every night, like every single night. It would be hilarious. Yeah. It would be very funny.

Yeah. All right. So how do you handicap the chances for this American team? Like, I think they're pretty talented and pretty deep. But at the same time, it seems like I would like them a lot more if they had optimized some of these roster spots a little more. So I'm not sure that when they stack, how they stack up against a team like Sweden or Canada, know, for example, what do you think?

I'm not giving them a whole lot of a whole lot of chances right now to make it, you know, into one of the medals. I guess we'll see what they do with the other roster spots open. They've definitely got a goaltending for it. I think they can have the defense for it, but we'll see. I don't have a lot of confidence in the way Torterella coaches

and his game plan. I think Canada's pretty stacked, of course. Sweden's deep. defense is ridiculous. And actually, I really like the Russian team a lot. Yes. I mean, their forwards are sick. They're just sick.

Assuming they have someone to get them the puck, right? Right. Yeah. So assuming they can actually get the puck and go from there, their defense is a little suspect, but their forwards are pretty great. So it should be really interesting. I mean, I don't know.

I keep thinking that, like, team North America is going to end up wiping the floor with everybody and we're all going to laugh in the end and be like, well, later old dudes, you know, good job, good effort. Yeah, no, I wouldn't be surprised. They're so fast and is the way the NHL at least is trending towards with younger players and playing a faster game, so it makes sense that they'd kind of showcase that in this tournament.

Yeah. All right, but before we get you out of here, let's, I remember, I forget when we had you on it. They'd feel like it was maybe two months ago or something like that, and the Blackhawks weren't playing as well as we'd become accustomed to over the past couple years. And I think we didn't sound the panic, but like the panic,

we didn't hit the panic button or anything like that just because, you know, they built up so much trust with us over the years. We were like, eventually they'll sort of figure this out and, and turn things on. And sure enough, they've been playing much, much better lately.

And I think last night, they, they just blasted the Red Wings out of the water. So I don't know. Like, what do you think of their, of their deadline moves? Do you, like,

I'm generally kind of wary of giving up a bunch of picks for rentals, just trying to win it. But it seems like, If anyone's going to do it, they're definitely like one of the few teams in the position to kind of pull that stuff off. Yeah, I mean, I thought that they did a pretty nice job of bringing in, I mean, Andy Ladd, of course, you know, like he can't really go wrong with him. And when Tosa comes back, I think that first line will be pretty terrific. But yeah, I mean, actually, I thought the Aeroff acquisition was pretty good, just in that he's not Rob Skidari, A, and B, his style, you know, I always thought of him as more offensive-minded,

and I think that really fits with the Black Hawk system. And he looked pretty good last night. You know, he was pretty good at getting the puck out of the zone pretty quickly, and, you know, you have a million options when you're Chicago for who's going to be there in the neutral zone to take the puck from you. So I think Earhoff actually is going to turn out to work out pretty well. well for them. I think their system just really works with that much better,

which works with this style of play. But yeah, so I mean, and they didn't really, I mean, they gave up some picks, yeah, but I don't think they care all that much at this point. Because they, you know, they have a pretty nice system of forwards,

at least. Their defense is a little bit thin, but we'll see how it goes. I mean, like I, like we said before, I've harped and harped on poor play during the season from these guys, and then they go into the playoffs, and I look like an idiot because they all of a sudden are like, hey, guys, let's play some good hockey.

Okay, and they just go do it. Yeah, wake us up with the playoffs. And I last, like, right, and, like, February is just typically a terrible month for them. Like, halfway through January, all the way through February, they're just garbage. And then all of a sudden March comes, and they're like, hey, it's getting pretty close to playoffs time. We should, like, go win some games, and then they start looking like world beaters. So my guess is that's what they're going to do again.

Yeah, that makes sense. All right, Jen, well, thanks a lot for taking the time to come on the show and discuss the Blackhawks and Team U.S. And I'm sure as the year it gets going here, we'll get you back on and we'll discuss the Blackhawks playoff chances once we know who they're actually playing. Yeah, sounds good. Thanks for having me on.