The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 73: Aging Like a Fine Wine

Episode Date: March 30, 2016

Chris Johnston joins the show to discuss Jimmy Vesey's decision to leave the Nashville Predators at the altar, and where both parties go from here. We also dive into how likely the Oilers are to make a big trade this summer, why Eugene Melnyk is the person to blame for the Senators struggles, and Vinny Lecavalier aging like a fine wine. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 2:20 Jimmy Vesey's decision 12:00 Nail Yakupov's trade demand 22:00 Eugene Melnyk rant 31:45 Vincent Lecavalier provides Dimitri joy *Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Stitcher and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave a glowing review. *Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theas, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl Defensive Inn, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and, of course, the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

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C-KKK is a service which makes buying and selling tickets easier than it's ever been before. They pull all the tickets available on other sites into one handy location for you, even going so far as to ensure that you're getting optimal value by alerting you once the prices fall. The best part of it all is that they don't try to sneak in those random fees at the checkout, which means that you know exactly what you're paying for when you're choosing your tickets. Seek's providing my listeners with a $20 rebate off their first purchase today, and all you've got to do is follow a few easy steps. Just download the free Seekek app,

then go to the settings tab and click add a promo code and type in PDO. Once you've done that, Seekek will send you your $20 rebate. Download the free Seek app, enter the promo code PDO, and you could start saving yourself a bunch of time, effort, and money as you get your hands on whichever tickets your heart desires today. Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PDOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to our Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Demetri Filipovich.

And joining me is Chris Johnson. Chris, what's going on, then? I'm excited to be back because since we've last, spoken. I've had a few brushes with fame with the listeners that have said they've heard me on here. So it's quite an honor to be invited back. That was exciting, man. When you told me that, I was like, wow, I get to for once kind of give Chris Johnston the PDO cast bump. It's usually the other way around. It was great, man. There's even a guy who just heard my voice and it came up and asked me if he had heard me on the PDO cast. And that's a true story. So I hope you're listening

out there. I didn't catch the guy's name. But anyway, good to be on with you, Dimitri. Well, I mean, I'm not surprised that you recognize your voice. I think I'd have to go back and do an official headcount, but I'd imagine you're probably the most frequently appearing PDOC guest at this point. I think you've been on like, what, five times, maybe four or five times? Like, that's probably right up there. We're in that range, and I guess I have the whiskey and cigarettes voice, even though I'm not a smoker, so there we go.

Okay, so you were on last time about two weeks ago, and we made the point of how this period and time in the league schedule is pretty boring because we just had the trade deadline and the playoffs are still a bit away, and there's not that much going on. But since then, we've had about four or five kind of newish developments that happen in the recent days, and I kind of wanted to pick your brain about what's going on behind the scenes. So I think the first obvious one is the whole Jimmy Vessy thing, where officially it came out

yesterday that he's opting not to sign with a team that drafted him, choosing to become a highly sought after free agent this summer instead. I don't know. What do you think about the entire situation? I guess it's a very open-ended question, but there's so many layers to it. So I'll just start with there. Well, there's a couple aspects that interest. I mean, one of them is how public David Poyle's been and discussing the situation.

And, you know, to me, I think I read into that in part that he recognized that this was a possible outcome. Obviously, last year when they were unable to sign Jimmy falling his junior season, rather, at Harvard. But, you know, really, this is a player that, to me, is making a decision that has nothing to do with business. In fact, there's a good argument we made that the best thing he could do in terms of making, money and getting things going on his career would be to sign with the Predators now. He would only have essentially a one-year entry-level deal because the first season would be burned immediately and next year would be the last one where he could get beyond the entry-level restrictions on the salary he can make and would sort of more quickly advance through

the NHL system. But it's clear that there's a personal aspect of this about where he wants to start his career and Nashville obviously isn't that place. Well, I mean, on the surface, I'll always side with a player, just in the sense that, you know, you got to look out for yourself. It's your career. It's your money. Like, these big organizations will be perfectly fine. They'll find the next Jimmy Vessie. But I think in this case, it is fascinating to David Poyle, who, I think it's fair to say. I mean, you've interacted with him more than I have, but he's a pretty fairly mild-mannered, kind of quiet and thoughtful GM who picks his spots. And he absolutely went off to the media last night. He did. And you're right. He's been around basically. either assistant GM or GM for, you know, our entire lifetimes for 30 plus years. So, you know, he's someone who's seen it all. And as a result, doesn't tend to react too strongly to things. But, you know, clearly at the heart of his words, he feels a bit betrayed here. And he feels

that if this was the way that Jimmy Vessie was going to go after his career ended at Harvard, he felt he should have been notified a little bit more ahead of time, perhaps, to plan differently at the trade deadline, you know, even possibly trading his rights. You know, before February 29th would have been an option available if they had a clear indication he wasn't going to sign there. And, you know, that to me seems to be at the root of it. I'm sure deep down once time passes and motions cool down a bit, you know, David will recognize that this is the player's right.

And, you know, it's hard to argue with them, really. I mean, he sat through four years now of college where he's made no money where even under the rules when he attended Nashville's various camps, he would have to fund those trips because it would be in violation of NCAA rules not to do so. So the organization's invested a lot

of them in the sense that Matt Nicol, their director of player development has spent a lot of time in Boston, working with Jimmy and trying to build that relationship and make him feel part of the Predator's organization. But at the end of the day, contractually, he doesn't know them anything. And

he can now wait until August 15th and sign with any of the other 2019. It's a bummer for the Predators in Poil in the sense that they made a savvy pick in the third round. He's the guy that fell in the draft and started off his career a bit slower in Harvard, but eventually developed and got significantly better the past two seasons. And now they're not really going to have anything to show for that investment, right? They're losing him for nothing.

And maybe it's a little bit of a flaw in the compensation system where the Blackhawks, for example, when they lost Kevin Hayes, they got a compensatory pick. but that's because he was a first rounder. So because he's a third, the predators basically are just having him walk for nothing. And I'm sure that's kind of a little bit of a kick in the pants for them. Yeah, and I would think that that's where we're likely to see a change, if anywhere. I don't think that this will be written out of the CBA in any way,

shape, or form. But, you know, you might see the compensation system expanded where, you know, I think we'd all agree it at least makes some sense. If you're going to give a first rounder who's lost, the compensatory pick in this case, why not give it to a second or third rounder, or even fourth or fifth or sixth or seventh, really. I mean, to me, I don't see any real reason to argue against that. And, you know, I doubt illegal either, you know, if and when they revisit this.

But, you know, it's a very tough situation for the predators who, you know, let's face it, or trying to get everyone they can to try to, you know, make a run in the playoffs. I think they've been a very model franchise in terms. of not spending to the cap and always being, you know, relatively competitive. But, you know, I think that there's got to be some urgency and push, especially as we saw in the Johansen Jones deal, to try to get a little bit more over the hump. And we don't yet know exactly what Jimmy Vessy will be, you know, as an NHL player,

especially immediately. But, you know, they feel that they would be much better off having at least that option in their lineup immediately. The Predators are an interesting team for me because for years, they were all about the blue line and the goaltending and don't get me wrong obviously with uh with weber and and yosey and ellis and echolm they still have a really good blue line and that is their foundation but if you look at the forward group particularly the young guys there's a lot to be excited there with forsberg and johansson and even a craig smith and then you have guys like arvidson and fiala and caminev coming up

and and you can definitely see the makings of a really intriguing group there and i like what they've built but the interesting question for a guy like jimmy vese is you look at that and on the one sense you can go, well, it'd be enticing play with all those guys and kind of grow with them and build something special. But at the same time, I mean, maybe it's kind of a daunting task where obviously he's confident in his own abilities, but maybe there might not be as much opportunity as other places. Like that must have kind of played into a little bit, right? I think a little bit. I mean, really, though, when I've examined this from all the angles, it was the best, if we're just looking at it purely from a financial and career standpoint,

I still think that this is an excellent situation for him. I just believe for whatever reason he doesn't want to commit to living and playing in Nashville right now. And then, you know, he still can't turn UFA until he's 27. So he's 22 right now. I believe he turns 23 before July 1st. But still another four plus years, essentially he would be committing to being with the predators. And he's choosing to go somewhere else. I mean, it's hard to, and again, this is, this was.

part of why David Poyle was so frustrated is it's hard to make a case against Nashville. I mean, if he signed that contract yesterday, he would get a $92,500 signing bonus. He would earn about $50,000 in salary, give or take for the two weeks of this season. He would get a chance to play in the playoffs. He's been promised to roll on their top line on the left side along Ryan Johansson. And then he can negotiate a second NHL deal at the end of next year. I mean, that's a pretty nice situation to step into, especially on a competitive team, albeit not a Stanley Cup favorite, but there's not a lot of downsides there

unless there's something else gnawing at him. And I think that that's partially why there's at least a feeling in the Predator's organization that there might be some tampering going on here or at least an idea that other teams are getting in his ear a little bit. And that's obviously not supposed to happen. And I think that that will be the next stage of this. If he does, in fact, stick to his guns and wait until August 15th and sign somewhere else, you know what do the predators do at that point is do they pursue potentially tampering charges against the team that signs them

yeah that's that that'll be interesting to follow so who do you think is on that short list then of of potential destinations for him because obviously the the connection that jumps to mind is the Bruins because of his Massachusetts ties and but we thought the same thing maybe about Kevin Hayes a few years ago and he chose the rangers instead I don't know who do you think is in on the mix for for vese services right now editing one you talk to we'll tell you it's going to be Boston or Toronto are the two teams. I would say, though, that part of this process, too, is maybe he'll hear something when he is able to talk to the other teams officially that, you know, you wouldn't expect. I mean, for example, if we were handicapping, had we known what Artemie Panarin is now,

last summer or when he was signed last spring, we wouldn't have thought Chicago was a natural destination for him. But they promised him a pretty good role among their scoring forwards, and that gave him a chance to earn a massive bonus this year, which, you know, currently he's just a little bit below the threshold to earn, but there's still a chance with a strong finish in the next 10 days that he's going to earn about a $1.7 million bonus on his entry-level deal. I mean, maybe a really good team will jump into the mix and convince him to come play with, you know, some of their good players, which, you know, could be a situation.

But, I mean, really, the Boston, the connection goes very deep. He was a Bruins fan. I grew up about 25 minutes from TD Garden. Don Sweeney, the GM, is a fellow Harvard, a line. and so there's connection there. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And I think we can all understand perhaps wanting to play for your childhood team. And, you know, with the Leafs, it's a similar kind of heartstrings situation where

his brother Nolan was drafted by Toronto on the sixth round in 2014. And his dad was, you know, made a part-time scout by the Leafs. And, you know, there would be some ties there. So I think those are the first two. But, you know, I don't think we can rule out the possibility. Someone else creeps into this, you know, as time goes along. long and he can talk to other teams. Okay, so let's move on and discuss something else that came up a few days ago.

I forget which day exactly, but it's the Nail Yakupov saga, I guess you could call it, where he had an interview with a Russian publication, I believe, and basically it was revealed that he and his camp had asked for a trade from the Oilers, and while that wasn't necessarily a surprising revelation, considering what we've been hearing around the trade deadline, it's kind of, I guess, sped up that process, or really kind of brought it back. up and it's making me wonder what the oilers are going to do this summer from an even bigger picture perspective because they really seem like a team that's primed to make some drastic moves, especially if they get another high pick and take another forward. It feels like there's

going to be an incentive there for them to kind of make a splash. Well, I mean, really, if you were scripting this, the timing is awkward and unusual. But, you know, the one thing from the Yakubov camp that they've said is that this was an interview with a respected Russian journalist that was wide-ranging and touched on a number of different subjects, including whether Jakobov will play at the world at home this year in Russia and what level of interest he hasn't ever playing in the KHL. And as part of that conversation, the trade request came up and that sort of helps explain the timing. Because really, to have this come out now and have to answer questions about it and have the organization have to potentially address it, it doesn't make sense because they can't really deal them until after the Stanley

Cups handed out a few months from now. But, you know, it is an interesting situation with Nali Yakopov where, you know, clearly he's going to be one of the number one picks gone. You know, I would suggest that he's not guaranteed to be the only one. I wouldn't be surprised if they moved one of Ryan Nugent Hopkins or Taylor Hall this summer. Obviously, Jordan Everly would be another player that would, you know, garner some interest and I think that they would entertain trading. But, you know, no. one should feel comfortable in Edmonton, other than Connor McDavid and probably Leon Drysiddle among their young players, just because, you know, a year into this now almost for Peter

Shirelli and Todd McClellan, and they just, they feel that there's a, almost an institutional issue with the organization and that some of these guys that have been around, you know, are part of the problem and, you know, that might be best suited with a change in scenery. And, you know, I do think there'll be one of the teams that are very, very active or we'll attempt to be, you know, come the draft and into the summer. The Yakupov situation is fascinating to me just from the perspective that we heard around the deadline that he was being aggressively shopped. And I think I saw somewhere that the Oilers were basically like, listen, give us two second

round picks and he's yours and no one was really biting at that, which is a little surprising to me considering that the Lightning basically got that for Brett Connolly the year before. And I think that as disappointing as Yakopov has been for a first overall pick, like there's still, he's shown that he can be a goal. score in the NHL and he's still what 22 years old like it seems like there's plenty of teams out there that with goal scoring drying up across the league and it being really tough to find cheap cheap scoring that you'd take a gamble on him and i don't know what do you think as a potential

landing spot for him because i think like looking at a team like maybe a carolina or a new jersey where they could definitely use some forward help and have a lot of defensive pieces to part with that that would be an interesting fit there yeah i think those are fits i mean Montreal It always goes back to that. I mean, he and outscale Chan Yak were once teammates and, you know, could potentially, I think that you'll see some changes with the haves. And, you know, even Anaheim, I believe, had some level of interest in Nail Yakopov. And, you know, what's kind of unique about this situation is they gave Igor Laryanov's

agent the ability to talk to teams ahead of the deadline. And I believe there were six or seven teams that, you know, he was basically encouraging to get in on the bidding and that were showing some interests. and I think that that will be renewed. I mean, we had kind of a unique set of circumstances around this trade deadline where teams are very, very reluctant to part with even, you know, the kind of picks that they used to just throw out on their way to go into work.

You know, I mean, it always just seems that you kind of go through different rising. I guess I just try to think of influences in this industry, and there is times when draft picks are not as valued, but this deadline more than ever, it seems that that wasn't the case. and, you know, I think that that's a big reason why the Oilers weren't able to get anything that entice them to make that trade because, let's face it. I mean, this guy, there's a reason he was picked number one overall, even if it turns out, you know, that he is a bust. I mean, I think that it's too early to say definitively that it can't be a useful NHL player and over stretches, I think that you've seen that.

But, you know, perhaps getting away from place where there's expectations and, you know, you know, starting fresh. I'm actually sympathetic to the point that he's played for a lot of different coaches, a lot of different GMs, a lot of different philosophies in a number of years in the league and, you know, just hasn't fit. He was also one of the last guys in the door there among their, you know, constant, you know, rejuvenation of high-end skilled forwards. And, you know, maybe that that's contributed in some ways to his lot and where he's ended up with the oilers. So, you know, I do believe that he is going to have interest for other teams, and probably the conditions around the draft will be better time for Edmonton to make that deal,

because you might draw in some of the teams that this year's deadline that didn't consider themselves buyers that are more willing to add that kind of piece at the draft table. Yeah, I mean, I do feel bad for him because he was playing really well at the start of the year with McDavid, too, and then McDavid goes down with injury, and then he has that freak accident with where he gets tangled up with a referee, I think, in Carolina, actually. And he just hasn't been able to bounce back since then. And I don't know, there's a big divide there, right? Because at this point, we sort of need to toss out the fact that he was a number one

overall pick. Like, it's going to be, it seems pretty unlikely that he's ever going to wind up matching those expectations. But at the same time, there's a big gap there between that and still being a useful NHL player that I still think it's too early, as you said, to kind of erase from the realm of possibility that he could be. So he'd definitely be a guy that I'd definitely be a guy that I'd. would target if I was a team that needed some young scoring.

Well, and let's face it, if he's getting you 50 points, I mean, there's a value to that in this league. And, you know, he is still, I agree that he's so young to, you know, we're getting excited with Jimmy Vessi. He's the same age as Nile Yakopov, taking on the same draft. And, you know, that's not a knock on Vessi, but it's just that perception sometimes governs the way people feel about these things. And I think if you strip away and then really look at it, that, you know, there's a lot of incentive, I believe, to go out and trade for Nali Akapov. Of all the things, no one's ever said that I've heard that he's a bad guy. I think at times he can be a bit of a loner and, you know, maybe a little bit misunderstood.

But, you know, I don't think that this is a case where he doesn't care. He's not putting the work in. It's just that there maybe isn't the best fit for him with the oilers. And, you know, I do, I'm kind of interested to see, you know, what he can make of himself when you you remove him from that situation and, you know, maybe give him a better environment. environment to show his best. We started talking about Yakupov. He were like he might not be the only first overall pick that's moved.

And we hear this all the time where it makes sense that the oilers have just been losing for so long and don't have anything to really show for these picks that they would want to make some sort of big splash and make some sort of like foundational arrangement to their core where they just just for the sake of, you know, saying, listen, we're trying something new because clearly the path we've been going down hasn't worked. but I feel like that has a massive potential to blow up in their face because making it move just for the sake of making a move almost never is a good idea. But like when you start talking about Taylor Hall as being the piece that you're going to move when he's one of the best, what, three or four wingers in the league in my opinion? Like that just seems crazy to me because I can't imagine that they're going to get proper value for him.

Well, and I should be a little more clear too that I think the reason those names went to the conversation is that they feel they're not. need defensemen. And the question becomes, how do you go and get those guys if you're not able to draft the impact defenseman? And that, you know, the sort of internal belief seems to be that one of the best ways to accomplish that goal is by, you know, putting one of these pieces on the table and seeing what you can get. And you're right, there's tremendous risk in that deal. But, you know, I think standing pat is not something we're going to see from that organization. I mean, And it's pretty typical that a GM after being hired, you know, takes a little time to look around and get his feel for things. But, you know, my sense is that Peter Schrelli is getting much closer to his point of action where he's out, you know, really actively changing what they have going on there.

And let's face it, he might even be armed with another number one overall pick. You know, as we're talking right now, they have the best odds by points percentage to finish 30th again in the NHL. So, I mean, there's a chance he's bringing another six-foot. two centermen and Austin Matthews into the organization whereby I think, you know, at some point, you're going to have, you're going to have an excess there of players to deal from. So I do think it's partially culture change motivated, but also, and perhaps even more importantly, about trying to find a way to add an impact defenseman, you know, get a young player. And I think that's where the Ducks connection comes into because with Sammy Vottenen,

and needing a new contract this summer, Hamas Lin, home as well, that there's a feeling that the ducks are probably going to have to move one of their D's. It might even be Cam Fowler, who's under contract already, you know, following the season. And that's maybe where the fit comes in if you're the Oilers and you're trying to target, you know, another young defenseman from around the league. Well, don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining. I'm sure that the Oilers are going to be providing us with some nice fodder during the offseason for podcasts and articles. They'll be great for a PDO cast.

Speaking of great for the PDO cast, Eugene Melnick and the same, senators. You like that seamless transition there? We've got a large contingent of senators fans to listen to the show. And I think, I guess I'll just leave, I'll throw out this question to you. It's very open-ended to get us started and just like, what's going on over there? Because if your owner is going on a wild kind of unprovoked and unsolicited rant to the media during the season about just all sorts of incoherent topics, like, I think it's safe to say that things aren't necessarily going very swimmingly for your organization. So like, what's going on over there?

Well, Eugene is a unique owner in the NHL. We don't have many like him in that he doesn't mind the attention and he doesn't mind putting his front office on blast. And clearly that's what happened here. I mean, again, I think if you were trying to script it a little bit better, you would have waited until after the season was done and had that kind of conversation because it's made it uncomfortable. In some ways, I would imagine, especially for Dave Cameron, the head coach,

you know, when you have the owner coming out and second-guessing six months later, your decision to start a goalie in a game. I mean, that's highly, highly unusual and pretty indicative of where you stand in the organization. And in fact, where you're likely to stand, you know, come April 15th or so after the season's all wrapped up. And, you know, it's been disappointing, obviously. I mean, they rely on making the playoffs to make money or to attempt to make the bottom line a little bit better. And, you know, their team that there's a lot of focus on that. I mean, even among Eugene's comments was the fact that they went over budget this year on payroll,

which I kind of sort of threw in as an aside. But, I mean, I think that they're very concerned about the bottom line and Eugene specifically. And he also doesn't mind get in front of the cameras and performing. And he certainly did that last week. Well, I imagine Matt O'Connor wakes up in the morning and just opens his Twitter. He's laying in bed on his phone. He's like, oh, what the hell, man? What did I do?

Right. And he's a year after, you know, he had a few different free agent offers, you know, coming out of college, the NCAA last year, and he chose to sign in Ottawa. And, you know, I still think that there's a good opportunity for him there. But you're right. It's like, why is he getting dragged into this? And, you know, really, why is the team having to deal with it with two or three weeks left in the season? It seems a little silly.

But, you know, I'm very curious to see what goes on there. I mean, one thing we should note about the senators is they literally have probably the smallest front office in the league. And just in terms of actual people that work for the team, It's very much a small town environment. And for them to kind of have the laundry thrown out on the lawn there and have everyone sort of looking at them, it creates an interesting dynamic because, you know, what is kind of the elephant in the room is, you know,

who will succeed Brian Murray as general manager when the time comes that Brian, you know, no longer wants to hold that position. And, you know, there's a couple candidates internally, including Daniel Alfredson potentially. You know, I'm not sure that he's ready for that. even himself just yet, but, but it's kind of one of the lingering long-term questions for how they, they sort of transition out of the current period. And when the owner is sounding off, I think it raises even more questions and gives answers. Well, he's, I should say,

he's entitled to do whatever he wants, right? Like, when you're signing the checks, you, you can really just have free reign to, to say whatever you want. And, and he gets a lot of flack for sort of being stingy as an owner and not willing to, to spend a lot. And I'm definitely responsible for that as well. I like to poke fun at him for it. But at the same time, like, it's easy to spend someone else's money and there's a reason guys like him get rich in the first place and it's not by throwing it around recklessly. But at the same time, like, he had these comments about analytics and somehow tied it into horses, I believe, and I kind of lost track of what was going on there. But the Sends are notably a team that isn't very progressive.

And it's surprising to me because it's one thing to be an internal budget team, but I feel like that would give you even more incentive to be on the forefront of kind of exploring ways to get ahead of the curve and use this sort of stuff to try and find hidden gems and avoid latching on to bad contracts. And the senators just haven't really done that in the past few years. Right. And, you know, that might be part of the next phase as well, that whoever does come in and sees control, you know, we'll focus on that because clearly a number of teams around the league in the last even just two or three years alone have taken that. direction and you know Ottawa from at least what we know of doesn't appear to be one of them and and

you know it makes a lot of sense I think for them I mean they should be on a budget I mean Latwa is a relatively small market in the NHL they they suffer at the gate when the team isn't doing well and if you look at their games now that players don't you know people don't go just just because you know they're having a hockey game 41 days a year in the suburbs of Ottawa I mean there's there are legitimate market challenges there that I can understand if you're the owner. And, you know, some teams do make it work. Really, Ottawa has, they've made the playoffs a lot. And sometimes with teams you wouldn't expect to make the playoffs,

but, you know, over their recent history here. But, you know, I guess in a bigger sort of question, I know a favorite of the PDO cast would be Eric Carlson and should be hockey fans in general. And for them to have him in his prime years and, you know, not be able to maximize the talent around him, you know, to me is a real shame if that's, you know, what continues to happen because, you know, he's a special player and, you know, has really carried a lot of what they've done offensively throughout the year, driven their possession. And, you know, it just seems it would be a shame if these are, if he's not

able to sort of be surrounded by better players before, you know, his prime is, is come and gone. You hit the nail on the head there where they do have these foundational pieces with Carlson and I love Kyle Turus. you have Mark Stone and Mike Hoffman on the wing and even Craig Anderson's been a perfectly serviceable option for them in net, but they haven't really supplemented them with anything on the peripheries. And I think that's sort of the actual use of a more progressive approach to building your team using analytics in the sense that you can find guys for cheap in the bargain bin that can

really help you out and provide value in that regard. And that's where a team that's not going to spend money with other big, big spenders needs to be incorporating into their decision-making, and they haven't at all, and pretty much all that's resulted in that is, like, the top end is so good that it's gotten them to the playoffs, but then when push came to shove, they just basically lose in the first round,

and it's really, really disappointing to see that happen because people misguidly just wind up blaming the stars instead of everything else around them. Well, and if you wanted to take the optimist view, they still have all those guys you mentioned, although the Hoffman situation will be one to chart this summer with him being restricted for agent again and having another good year and, you know, kind of a difficult negotiation and subsequently an arbitration hearing with him last year.

I mean, I think that there's certainly some rumblings that he could be a player that might be dealt rather than signed to a big money deal in Ottawa. But, you know, they have pieces and they have with some good moves. I don't think that it's a stretch to imagine them, you know, making the playoffs even next year. And I'm sure on some level that's fueling Eugene's frustration is, that, you know, he understands there are star players there and they're not getting the most out of the team as a whole. And, you know, I'm not sure what the way forward is for them, though.

I mean, because, you know, as we're talking now, Brian Murray still hasn't decided what he's going to do. You know, if he returns for another season, obviously we hope that his health allows him to do that. But, you know, I think that they're kind of in a bit of a limbo mode in terms of what the big term plan is. and if it is, you know, going to be someone else taking over the GMC. We might see it, if not drastic, at least, you know, pretty significant change in direction

about how they do their business. Well, it's crazy to me that they're like, if they're not going to make the playoffs this year, just because the Atlantic is so wide open. And Carlson's having this transcendent season where he's pretty much, for all intents of purposes, playing half the game. And the other, and they're doing fine in those minutes. And then it's the other half of the game. that they're just getting completely pummeled.

And I think that, I mean, it should be a wake-up call to both Melnick and Murray and everyone involved that something drastically needs to change. Well, and I'd love to give him some true serum and know how he feels about it too, because, you know, he can be an outspoken guy. And, you know, he signed a long-term deal there about the time he was winning his first Norris trophy and, you know, obviously wants to do well in Ottawa. You know, he's committed a long time to that organization. and you wonder if he feels that they're giving him enough because, you know, he's certainly on the ice from what we can see is giving them way more than his share of the bargain.

And, you know, for a mid-first-round draft pick is, you know, one of the best players in the entire league right now. So, you know, I do think that it's going to be some interesting days there because on the one hand, as I mentioned, I don't think that they're totally lost at sea, but we have to kind of get a sense of what direction they're going to take and how they go about reacting. to this difficult year. And, you know, it certainly sounds like the first piece or seems like the first piece will be changing coaches yet again, which is, you know, kind of the standard operating procedure in Ottawa. I mean, coach usually gets a season, a season a half on average in the last seven or eight years there.

But, you know, I think that we should recognize that it does go deeper than the coach. Yeah, it definitely does. Okay, one final thing before we get you out of here. And it's something that I kind of wanted the two of us now that I have you on the phone to circle back to because we were immediately on the scene the day after it happened. And it was when Vinie La Calvilliers was traded to the Kings, we both, I remember distinctly, we had our eyebrows raised and we were kind of joking about this potential hilarious scenario where he played well enough where he was like, hmm, maybe I could just do this for another year. And then it really put the Kings in a bind. But at time, it seemed like a pipe dream because he just looked so bad in Philly.

And it seemed unrealistic that he would actually be able to play well enough and contribute enough to even have those thoughts creep into his head. but all of a sudden now a few months later he's got what 10 goals for the kings and I think even the 0.1% chance that a long playoff run here with them could potentially reinvigorate him and make him rethink that decision is honestly like my favorite subplot of the 2015-2016 season right now I'm just like anyone that follows me on Twitter just knows that I'm having so much fun with this I know you're basically live tweeting all those goals these days so I figure you you must have the kings like an alert that comes up every time they're playing a game and be watching. watching closely, but, you know, it's got to be on his mind. I mean, it would be impossible not to imagine it. I mean, the situation in Philadelphia was so difficult for him. He was scratched. He, you know, he didn't know what was going on. It seemed like kind of an inglorious end of what's been a pretty solid career. And then to go to L.A. and be on a team that's very good with Stanley Cup aspirations and, you know, score 10 goals in less than a half a season, you know, how could he not be thinking that he's got a little bit more in the tank? And, you know,

that was always the danger and kind of the strange part of the agreement that Kent used as agent made with the Kings as part of that deal to Dean Lombardi and you know maybe there is some way out of it if L.A. is willing to deal him somewhere else but it's you know contractually I mean I don't think I believe it would be cap circumvention if he signed some sort of legal document that said he was not going to pursue the rest of his contract and well we have every reason to believe in Calvier is a man of his word I mean he can change his mind. And, and, well, maybe his word will change.

Right. Well, that's what I mean. I don't even, I wouldn't, to me, it's actually perfectly understandable. If you, if you thought you were kind of being shamed out of something you were doing, and then all of a sudden, you show yourself to be worthy of it again and want to keep doing it. I mean, you know, once he stops playing, he can't play anymore. I mean, I understand where that would come from. And man, with 10, again, with the 10 goals and the possibility of going on, and let's say, even if they fall just sort of the Stanley Cup, and, you know, that could fuel him even more to want to continue on. So I think you're right to have centered in on this as a potential storyline and to kind

of watch it blossom because I think we'll hear a lot about this once the playoffs get going and especially if he's still playing well for them. I don't know if it'll come in the playoffs or maybe in the offseason, but I really, really, really hope someone writes the article about how he's started running on the beach in L.A. and how he's hired a celebrity chef that's allowed him to adopt a gluten-free diet and how he's in the best shape of his life and it's going to allow him to extend his career for another, maybe even more than one year. Like, someone needs to write this article because I'm just going to, I think I might just print it out and like hang it up in my wall in my room or something.

Now, are you feeling that this is a PDO-driven good stretch for him then? Yeah, I definitely think it'd be misguided for him to come back for another season. I mean, it's a great story and I'm having a lot of fun with it, but mostly because I just would love to see kind of how the king's handle. all this and sort of the stories that come from it. It would be remarkable entertainment and offseason. But I don't think he's anything resembling what he used to be or even really a usable player, right? Like most of it's come on the power play and his possession stats are really bad relative to the rest of the team. And I just think it makes for a funny story, but some people don't understand that I'm actually sort of doing it kind of ironically tongue in cheek and they're

asking me like what my projections for him are next season and how much longer I think he can go. and I think I just God bless those people because they're my favorite followers, I think. Well, from the human side, though, I think we can agree on this, that if he does, in fact, hang him up, it's kind of neat for him to have a run like this where, you know, I'm sure he feels good.

Every player feels good when they're contributing and scoring, and, you know, they're not just some guy getting scratched every night. And, you know, it could end up being a nice story if maybe he does recognize where he's at and just retires after the season and at least went out with a little bit more of his pride intact and being a healthy scratch for weeks at a time in Philadelphia.

No, that's for sure. I mean, he was such a great player once upon a time that it was really just, it was just unfortunate to see it just like him lugging himself around the ice there in Philly and not really being able to even crack the lineup. So I agree from a human element, it's really nice to see. Well, it's funny. It's one of these things where now I'm, you know, a little bit more in 10 years, 12 years into my career.

And a lot of these guys that I covered initially that were the great players, it's been kind of sad in some ways to see some of these guys fade off, especially the ones that have done so in their early 30s, you know, kind of prematurely versus, you know, what you think. And, you know, so I guess maybe I have a soft spot for some of the players that were dominating in the league more than a decade ago that are still around because there's very, very few of them at this point. Well, I suspect this isn't the last time we'll be having this conversation,

so I'm excited to see where this Lecavalier journey takes us. We should buy a bottle of, wine and toast them or something at the end of this because I know you've taken to calling him Vino aging like a fine wine. Yeah, he has. Yeah, no for sure. Chris, man, thanks again for taking the time. It's, uh, it was, it was a lot of fun as always. And I have a sneaking suspicion that just like we'll be talking about the cavalier a lot moving forward, uh, we'll be having you on the podcast fairly soon once again. That sounds good. I'll have to enjoy my growing legions of fans from here. Okay, cool, man. Talk soon. Thank you.

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