The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 81: Live From New York!

Episode Date: April 21, 2016

Chris Johnston joins the show live from a New York Rangers practice at Madison Square Garden to go around the league and discuss the main storylines stemming from every series to-date. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 0:30 Penguins vs. Rangers 5:45 Evgeni Malkin's deployment 11:00 Rick Nash's poor luck 12:45 Panthers vs. Islanders 16:45 Lightning vs. Red Wings 19:20 Capitals vs. Flyers 20:30 Sharks vs. Kings 26:40 Stars vs. Wild 30:00 Playoff Seeding 34:10 Blues vs. Blackhawks Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Stitcher and can also be streamed from our website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave a glowing review. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Demetra Filipovich. and joining me is my good buddy, Chris Johnson. Chris, what's going on, man? Not too much, my friend. I am just under the famed roof at Madison Square Garden. Wow, podcasting straight from Madison. MSG, that's pretty good. Yes, sir. We're gone big time. So the schedule worked out pretty good for you, how? Would the Penguins, Rangers, and Islanders, Panthers, converging to play in the same area at the same time? Yeah, it's awesome. I've never actually had this experience where you can very comfortably go to two series.

and basically I'm going to do four games in five days between the two Islander games at home and the two Ranger games. It's kind of neat dipping in and out of series because traditionally when I've been out covering playoffs, it's only on one at a time. You can kind of, I guess, multitask a little better when you get to do that. Yeah.

Well, let's start with the Penguins Rangers because I think it's fair to say objectively that it's the higher profile series and justifiably so. I think there's a million different angles to approach it from. But I think the first thing we should start with is just discussing the Penguins goaltending because obviously we saw Matt Murray come in last night for game three and he performed pretty well. I mean, it's tough to put too much stock into it because the Rangers made life pretty easy for him,

just getting only 17 shots on that, of course the entire game. But what do you think about how he played? And more so what's the rumblings of Margotry's status moving forward? Do you think we'll see him at some point in the series or do you think it's kind of a longer term outlook? Well, it's almost going to have to be a game-by-game situation. I think, I mean, here's the issue with Mark Andre Fleury is that it's a second concussion this year, which creates even more problems than a traditional concussion. It's the playoffs, so no information, information is scarce enough as it is.

And then, you know, just the nature of that injury. I mean, I don't think the penguins know for sure that Mark Andre Fleury knows for certain when he can play. But the organization does feel very good about getting Matt Murray in there, because even though he's only 21 and we don't see a lot of goaltenders over time at this age, you know, be someone a team relies upon, the Penguins, I think, are quite comfortable with him. And, you know, he handled the first test pretty well. As you mentioned, it was a very complete game in front of him, which might not have been an entirely coincidence, you know, perhaps his teammates that were reacting to him getting in there

and, you know, knowing that they needed to buckle down. But, you know, let him here for a period of time. if Mark Andre Fleur's recovery doesn't go as well as everyone hopes. Yeah, well, okay, so for the Rangers, I think it's tough because I was going to say they've played better than I thought they would in this series, but that game three performance wasn't particularly inspiring, but the game two more so was promising at least. It looks like they could kind of hang with the penguins, and I think a big part of that was the fact that they weren't allocating 20 minutes or so to Dan Gerardy, and we're kind

of spreading that around elsewhere to more capable puck. movers. Do you think that there's an actual injury here that's keeping him out, or do you think the Rangers coaching staff finally kind of wise up to the idea that it just wasn't really going to work with him basically shadowing Crosby for the entirety of the series?

Yeah, it seems more of the latter, I think, than the former. I mean, they've been very unclear about what the injury is and, you know, I think that they're being respectful. And, you know, to be fair, he didn't miss a couple games late in the season.

with what they kind of described as, you know, just the wear and tear of a long year. And, you know, it's possible he's not at 100%. But certainly he struggled in game one when he played and, you know, was held out from there with little information. So I have to believe it's more of a healthy scratch kind of situation where in past years we would have seen Dan Gerrari playing through whatever he's dealing with in this situation. But just, you know, right now he's not one of the best six options for them. And you're right.

The game two performance was very impressive. It was surprising to me. There's nothing about the way these teams performed in the regular season, performed late in the regular season, that made me think we'd see games like that with the Rangers controlling wide swaths of play and able to generate a lot of time in the penguin zone. And that kind of casts a lot of doubt on the series, I thought,

because at that point, Jeff Zatkoff was in for the Penguins, which was a wild card. And if the Rangers can hang with them, you know, it would be a surprise. But, you know, game three was a little bit more what I expected coming in and that it was still a tight game. I mean, Hendrick Lundfuss is someone that gives the Rangers a real advantage even if they're getting, if they're not carrying much of the play. But, you know, there's still kind of a weird feeling I would say around this series in general because

there's a lot of kind of unknowns hanging in the air even more than a typical playoff series. Right. Well, I think the game two performance was the perfect storm for kind of speculation in people who like to throw narratives up against the wall and see what sticks. there was all this discussion about after the penguins looked so good in game one oh should they even insert of genie malkin back into the lineup if he's ready to go and i thought that was a particularly kind of laughable discussion i have in the first place i mean if you have one of the what five to ten best players in the world at your disposal you should probably use him and try and figure it out afterwards but of course you know the rangers played a lot better in that game and then all

a sudden people were like oh well see the the penguins shouldn't have messed with it i i don't I just, it's weird because I think Malkin looked a little bit rusty and maybe a little bit slower than he usually doesn't game to, but I thought the last night he looked pretty good. Well, and I've seen people almost suggest that it's a bad thing, that it's creating an issue for Mike Sullivan. And granted, I acknowledge it. Maybe not optimal line mates for him at this point, but still having him on that line, it has to catch the Rangers attention. And they have to worry about him at five on five. And then, of course, when you do get a power play, I mean, he, one of the main drivers of what they're able to do with the man advantage. And he had a secondary assist, I guess, on the Crosby goal last line on the power play. But to me, there's no question that they're much better with him there.

And he looked more of himself in game three. And after a five-week layoff with a shoulder injury, I think it's reasonable to expect we're going to see progression as each of the games go along. And then he has more time to get his feel back and even just more recovery time as well for his body. So, you know, with Melkin, I think it gives the Penguins really three pretty good lines, even the fourth line that they have. We saw Matt Collins score the winning goal. I mean, they're a fairly complete team up front now. And some people maybe are getting used to the Brian Russ a little bit more, Tom Kunackle or Connor Shiri.

You know, they haven't watched these guys play a lot. But they're pretty speedy, effective players in depth roles. And, you know, I like the Penguins attack. And I like it a lot better with 71 on the ice. Yeah. Well, we saw Sullivan kind of experiment and put him a little bit with Kessel there in game three. Do you think we'll see more of that moving forward, or do you think there's still the possibility that we might see Malkin and Crosby play together? I know it's been brought up a little bit, but it seems there's a little bit of a monkey wrench thrown into those fantasy booking plans of ours just because it seems like Malkin himself would prefer playing down the middle.

Yeah, I think that that's the interesting kind of subtext to it, is that my sense and just, seeing the way Mike Sullivan's made adjustments in the games is that he doesn't mind kind of really splitting his lines up and going with a couple of variations, which one of the interesting points of that after game, too, is that Alainvino said that that created issues for him, that, you know, how many different sort of combinations and the different ways that they deployed Malcolm in that game, but that the player himself doesn't really want to do that. And, you know, Malcon's been quite clear that he prefers to be a center and kind of wants a steady line. So the coach, I think, if he had a perfect world scenario, would probably just have all kinds of different variations that go out where Malkin is kind of fixed on a third line,

but he sees a lot of shifts on Crosby's wing. But I'm not sure the player himself is going to buy into that. And we'll have to see how it goes along. But I think it makes it more challenging. I know sometimes it's easier just to watch the same four lines. You get more continuity and you're less at risk, I guess, of losing a player or two that kind of falls out of the rotation. but, you know, I remember back to the series of Leaves played with Boston a couple years ago

that Randy Carlisle, one of the ways he eventually got Phil Kessel away from a hard Zadano-Chara matchup was just by throwing them out on all kinds of different lines. And to me, it's interesting. And this stuff matters in the playoffs. I mean, matchups are much more of a focus and, you know, much more part of the adjustments teams make from game to game. And, you know, this is when coaches make their money to me is the way they can find solutions to the problems that are presented by the other team and the other coach specifically.

Right. And I think that's why you mentioned guys like Brian Rust and Connor Shiri and Tom Kunako playing with a guy like Malkin doesn't seem like it would be kind of the greatest fit for him. You'd expect more talent to be playing on his wings. But at the same time, if you can, you know, roll with Kessel on one line, Crosby on one line, and then Malkin on the third line, it's pretty much impossible for any team to match up with that just because it means that they're going to have a viable scoring third on the ice

essentially every single second of the game. Well, and it's all about how you view these things. And one of my frustrations when we get to playoff time always is that you'll pick star player X and criticize them for not having a point total that you think is where it should be. And I get it to some degree. These guys are paid a lot of money. The backbones of the team they're on. But, you know, I like to take a wider view of how the whole picture is coming together.

And sometimes, even if Gennie Malkin maybe doesn't, you know, contribute as much offensively, ultimately in that position. It doesn't mean it's a bad thing for the Pittsburgh Penguins. It means that the team they're playing against might have to use their defensive resources in a different way that frees up the game maybe a little bit more for Sidney Crosby or Phil Kessel on that line that he seems to have found

a pretty good home with with Nick Benino at center. And I like to view the whole picture. I don't think it's always important. I mean, it's great when the star guys are carrying a team. But when Matt Cullen scores a game winner for you, there's also a reason why that happens. and it's that he's getting easier matchups on the ice. And, you know, as long as when your top lines out,

they're not getting dominated by other teams' top line, sometimes that's a net victory. So, you know, myself, I don't have any issue with him playing with those players. I mean, one thing I'll say, I mean, Connor Shear, he's a speedy guy. He doesn't take it, you know, he doesn't show any sort of unwillingness to engage in the puck battles along the wall. And, you know, he can be an effective player, I think, with Hvgeny Malkin. And it's just not maybe the star stutter, the star factor,

we're used to seeing on his wings. Okay, before we move away from this series, I can already forecast Rangers fans being upset that we spent 90% of the time talking about the Penguins in this series. So I just wanted to give a quick little shout out to Rick Nash, who obviously scored a really nice shorthanded goal in game three. And I think it's tough playing in that market and sort of just the playoff, individual playoff performances he's had in the past, just not being able to, as you said, score enough to sort of, there was been a.

divide between how much he's getting paid and how much he's actually been producing in the playoffs on the score sheet. And I think it's a bit unfair to him because I've long been a proponent of the fact that he's been playing really well, even when they made the cup finals that year and he only had three or four goals, he was generating shots like crazy and they were controlling play whenever he was on the ice. So I think it was nice to see him get a goal. And it would eventually be nice to see more people kind of come around to the fact that he's such a uniquely gifted player and we should just appreciate him for what he is rather than any other shortcomings he might have. Right. I mean, he was a victim of low shooting percentage in that series, if I recall.

Yeah, 3.6% in that playoff run in 25 games. I mean, I'm with you on that. I mean, it just comes up every year with some player. I'm sure we're going to get it again by the third or fourth round. You know, there's going to be some story that just gets flogged to death with a guy who's just in a bad run of luck, maybe for just a bad way of putting it or an incomplete way of explaining it. But, you know, Rick, Rick did play well. I even thought

last night Eric Stahl was okay He was creating a little bit He's another candidate here I'm sure for people Because they had to give up some assets To bring him in And then he's bashed the point Where he's an elite offensive player

And I could just see that You know maybe the stars aligning Where he'll be a scapegoat at some point Okay let's switch gears And get to that other series That you're also covering And I apologize to our listeners If some of this stuff gets outdated

Because we're admittedly recording this Before Game 4 And you'll be listening to it afterwards most likely. So we're discussing everything through the first three games. And I think it's definitely fair to say that the Panthers should be kind of scratching their heads right now wondering how they're down in this series, considering how much of the play they've actually typically been dominating.

Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to figure that out myself. I mean, the Islanders are so loaded on their top line that the Panthers seem to have a decided advantage whenever you don't have Tavaa Sokpozo and Franz Nielsen out there. And it's showing itself in the games, but it's kind of been an interesting series for that matter. And, you know, I think some of this falls a little bit on goal tending. I don't think Roberto Longo's been horrible, but he hasn't been great. And, you know, a couple of turnovers, too, on the defensive side of things is where the Islanders have created some goals. And it's probably the least sexy series or certainly among the least sexy series,

but it's been one of the more intriguing to watch for me. And, you know, I didn't give the Islanders too much of a chance in this series at the outset, but there's a very interesting dynamic tonight. And again, sorry for the outdatedness of it. But heading into Game 4, I think, is a really intriguing game. And it's a very big one, obviously, for the Panthers. Well, it's sort of played out the way I thought, right? Because heading into it, we all went, okay, the Panthers have been playing significantly better since they made mid-season adjustments. And then especially after the trade deadline.

And sure enough, at 5-on-5, and look, at it. I mean, they've outscored them 8-2. They've controlled 56% of shot attempts, 58% of scoring chances. Like, all of this stuff should point to at least a 2-1 Panthers lead in the series right now. But then you look at the fact that Thomas Grice has just flat out outplayed Roberto Luongo. And I think it's easy to make jokes about Luongo this time of year because of the track record he's had. But I think a healthy amount of those goals were sort of breakdowns in a defensive zone that weren't necessarily his fault. I mean, you look at the OT winner by Hickey and he's just making a straight B-line down towards.

the net right down the middle of the ice and there's not much Luongo could kind of do on that play. Exactly. What he isn't doing is being superhuman and having one of those crazy games and stealing a game maybe when, you know, some of those defensive chances are five alarm scoring chances and he's stopping them. I mean, you're right. I mean, he's been a bit guilt, you know, victim, I guess, of the situations that the chances have arrived in. But, you know, it's an interesting time. He's one of the veteran players on the team. I think that the schedule might have played into it a little bit. I mean, not to give him the excuse, but he was pretty tired after that game three of the third and four nights. And, you know, was very much welcoming a two-day break in the series from that point along.

And, you know, Roberto, I think they're going to live and die with him if they didn't go to Al Montoya in the back-to-backs to start. Because Montoya, much like Thomas Grice, had a pretty good season for a backup this year. and, you know, it's going to be, I'll be fascinated. I mean, if the Islanders win the series somehow, based on what I thought heading in, based on what I've seen through three games, I'll still be surprised. But John Tavares has been excellent,

and, you know, sometimes between a good goalie and you get a couple opportunistic goals, you know, the underdog can come through in a series. Well, I think it's Cardinals sending the playoffs to look ahead. You really, I mean, it's hockey cliche. You take it one game at a time and all that jazz. And I think for both of these, franchises, I mean, what, neither of them has made the second round in 20 years. So just winning one

playoff series would be a pretty big deal. But I think in the grand scheme of things for us, if you, if you look at the backdrop of the Eastern Conference, this entire portion of the bracket, and we'll discuss Lightning Red Wings in a second, looks pretty open, right? Like, I don't think any four of, any of those four teams are necessarily moving the needle too far in their direction for us to kind of think with any sort of confidence or certainty that they're going to for sure make the Eastern Conference Finals out of that bracket. So I think there's definitely like an opening here for all four of those teams. There is. You know, I'm getting fairly excited with Tampa Bay, to be honest. I've really loved how they've responded to the injury situations that they found themselves with.

With Stroman and Stamcoast. You know, we're really seeing that that Kutraub line be pretty darn effective. And, you know, Tyler Johnson even coming back to life after an injury plague season a year, that was certainly below what his expectations and our expectations for him would have been. And, you know, I think Tampa, with the experience they have with the fact that they're a little bit better defensively with Ben Bishop and goal. I mean, if we're handicapping it, I would say that they're the most likely of that bracket to emerge and play in the Eastern Conference final, but it's far from a certainty, right? And I would, in some ways, I'm intrigued by the possibility of a Lightning Panthers second round series, but we'll see

if Florida can get by the Islanders. I mean, it's sort of shaping up to me in the big picture is the playoffs where, you know, the unexpected is happening and where we're seeing some of the changing of a guard. There's a real opportunity for a lot of franchises to sort of change the view of what they are. So I guess that kind of answers my next question was going to be, do you think the way the series is unfolded, that has been a good sign for the lightning? Or do you think it's just more of an indictment against how pedestrian the Red Wings have been? I guess you're going with the former? Yeah, I mean, it's also the latter, too, though, because, I mean, I was that bullish on their their chances.

I mean, they took everything they had just to get into the last seed and, you know, keep that playoff street going. But, you know, they're at a point where their key players just aren't as big a difference makers as they used to be. I think that there's a changing of the guard going on. Obviously, they've had to play two goalies in three games. They're chosen to play three goalies, two goalies in the first three games is not a good sign for their chances.

And, you know, but I'm bullish on the lightning more just because. because I was curious to see how they would handle, you know, the losses of those guys. I mean, it's been a far more sort of physical series, I think, than I anticipated. Right. More bad blood. And, you know, I just think that they're playing a pretty good style of hockey right now, you know, early in the playoffs, even without some of their key players. And obviously, the longer they can keep playing and having games on the schedule, the more likely it is they're going to get those guys back and have a chance to make a run like they did last spring. All right, and to kind of close out the Eastern Conference here, I spent a lot of time with yesterday with Eric Parnais discussing the Capitol's flyers, so I don't want to spend too much time here on it. But what have you thought about that series? I mean, it's weird because it got out of hand there in game three, and I think it's easy to kind of look at that and be like, oh, classic flyers.

But I thought through the first two games, it was actually very competitive until everything just kind of imploded on them. It was. It was closer than it's going to look, especially if it ends up being a sweep. in the early games. And, you know, losing Sean Couturey was a huge loss for Philly, just even for the matchup games we're talking about in some of the other series. It really limits, I think, what Dave Haxthal can do and trying to, you know, stop, you know,

one of the most dynamic offensive teams in the league. And, you know, it's a bit of a shame the way that all went down. But you're right. It wasn't necessarily typical Philly. It just sort of devolved there in game three. and, you know, it'll be very tough, you know, from my eyes to see them and not, you know, to extend it to a game five, but we'll see how, we'll see what they've got, I guess. But to me, I guess we've just learned that the caps don't appear like they're going to get their mental test, their first mental, big mental test in the first round. But, you know, it's going to come at some point. Yeah. Okay, let's shift over to the Western Conormons here, Rapid Fire style. Sharks Kings, I think it's fair to say this is probably, the highest quality of hockey that's being played in this first round or probably I guess maybe the most compelling series just with all the different storylines and different players involved

yeah it's been awesome I'm I'm enjoying that and with with the late starts I've been able to watch those games even when I've been working somewhere doing something so I've I thought that that man the sharks have been great they've had a season I think some people including myself were a bit slow to pick up on on how well they they were doing this year and that You know, that last year that wasn't sort of the end of the era, whatever their era was with their players. And, you know, Joe Thornton at his age, it's hard to say much more about what he's been doing. And, you know, this looks to me like a six or seven game type of situation now. And, you know, I'm looking forward to watching them.

It's a tough one to handicap. It's been so close. And, you know, even the last game, going to overtime for where the Kings got a big victory. and you know where the black hawks to me look a little bit like their their their moment at least for this year is not upon them i'm not ready by any stretch to write off the kings i think they're still a very good team and the sharks still have their hand fully series lead yeah no heading into the series i basically said i my prediction is it's going to go seven uh the big winner in this series is going to be just the all the hockey fans out there and i'd flip a coin and decide who wins that way because it's it's so tough to tell and I think the thing that's been eye-opening through the first couple of games has been just how much faster the sharks are than them. I guess it shouldn't have been a big surprise because the Kings, you know, that's not their game.

They're going to choke you out in the neutral zone and slow it down and really throw their body around and kind of wear you down over time. But it's just been eye-opening, I guess, a little bit to see how good the sharks have looked over the course of 5-15 play, and then, of course, their power play as well. Right. And to go in and win two game at Staples Center. I mean, that's, that's not an accomplishment that means anything if they end up fumbling it away from there. But, you know, that, that to me was a real signal that there's, there's a strength to their game.

I think they do have some confidence that they can compete with this team. And it's shown in the play. I mean, they're, again, I felt like they're a bit forgotten at the points that, you know, I sort of thought their window had come and gone by them. But it would be quite something if they can come back and finish this off. and knockout basically, potentially Chicago and LA, the last five-cup champions, would really create an interesting dynamic

around the Stanley Cup tournament in general. And, you know, the sharks deserve credit for being able to open up the game against the Kings and not get ground down to a pulp, at least through three games. And we'll see how it goes because the Kings aren't dead until they're dead. Yeah, that's for sure. We've seen that in the past. I think, yeah, I feel bad because for a while they're in the second half,

half of the season, I was like, yeah, I acknowledge that the sharks are playing really well, and it's been impressive what they've been able to do. But I just thought, like, this Ducks King's second round series was just, like, you could write it in Sharpie in your bracket. And now it looks like maybe neither of those teams might make it to that second round. Yeah, I mean, who would have thought? I mean, that's what makes the playoffs great, though. I have to say, I mean, whether it's the islanders or the predators or these teams that were overlooked, I mean, good for them. I mean, it really comes down to two weeks of hockey and as good as teams as an opponent can be, there are times that the team that everyone views as unanimously viewed as unilessly viewed as weaker

can rise up and handle that challenge. And, you know, the predators have played well. I view, view the ducks, though, a bit like the Kings that I'm not willing to make too many predictions or assumptions about their status just yet because they still have a strong team and their benefit, I guess, is that they can go to a second goal. I mean, Frederick Anderson did well after getting in for John Gibson. And, you know, that's another one that could go to the distance and we might still end up with that Southern California series or something entirely unexpected. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned earlier the Lightning Red Wings has been a chippy series.

I think the Predators' Ducks so far has probably been the chippiest of the bunch. It's been crazy, especially that game too, where the referees were definitely letting them play a little bit and they were just taking shots at each other, whether it was during the player after the whistle. And I don't know, it was pretty fun. I think the breakout stars for this series for me have been the Fox Sports West team, the Ducks local broadcast team, which has just been losing their minds at some of the officiating going on so far. I haven't actually been hearing their call on it. Oh, man, it's amazing. You have to listen to Hayward. He's the best. It's like he's on the Ducks himself. He's just losing his mind every

time they don't get a call. You know, I don't always hate that for local broadcast. I mean, just a matter of personal taste, but, you know, if, you know, I remember when I was young and I was a fan, you, you kind of sometimes like that. And as I get older, even if I didn't become someone who works in the industry, I probably prefer the more measured approach. But, you know, sometimes it's fun to hear that the people calling the game care as much as you do when you're a fan. And you're right, that's been an emotional series, very physical, big boy hockey, as it's called in some circles. and, you know, been quite entertaining. I mean, the West has been, for me, what we would expect.

I mean, the highest quality teams through the regular season, for the most part, we're playing out West. And, you know, I think that that's shown a lot in the hockey that's been played in those series. Yeah. Well, I mean, just to wrap it up on that broadcasting team, I definitely agree with you. I think it's all pretty funny and understandable, considering how much time they spend around all those guys.

But it's also funny that in the playoffs, this sort of national audience gets exposed to some of these local teams sometimes, and it's funny to see how they react. And all this stuff's going on the entire year. It's not just a playoff thing. But let's quickly discuss Stars Wild because I feel a little bit bad for the Wild just because that lineup is so decimated. I mean, you look at it.

They're playing Zach Dalpi all of a sudden, and David Jones is on their top line. And it's just there's only so much you can do with the hand they've been given. But at the same time, the stars have looked pretty good themselves. themselves. They have and you know it's been such a disappointing year for Minnesota. They've, you know, they've appeared to take some steps, you know, winning rounds the last couple of years. But, you know, this was a tough season and, you know, they lose their coach. They get to the playoffs finally after, you know, really scraping in at the end of the regular season and they

wind up there with missing some of their best players. So I don't think that we can call it a, it's not a failure so much. It's just, you know, it's kind of bad luck, I think, in part. And, and, And, you know, some intriguing questions going forward for that franchise with a bit of an aging core, a ton of guys with no movement clauses, you know, some salary cap ramifications. I mean, I don't know where you go from here if you're Minnesota, but you're right. And in this series, you know, I just, they haven't had a full chance. It was going to be tough against the stars, even with their complete lineup. But you take Zach Parise away.

And it's just a totally different team when you get into a series where you're going back and forth. Well, I mean, it's just been, their season's been sort of a masterclass on why you don't want to buy in too much to small samples because they were struggling for the longest time there. And a lot of it was the fact they just couldn't buy a goal. And Mike Yoll gets fired and they bring in a new coach. And I think in the first four or five games with the new staff, they scored a bunch of goals. And they were out west. And obviously they ran rough shot all over the Canucks and the flames and the Oilers. and people were like, oh, you see it was Mike Yost fault.

That's what was holding them back. And then all of a sudden, they obviously come back down earth. And it just makes you realize that it just brings up the interesting question of how much of this stuff really is coaching and how much of it is the actual player personnel itself. Yeah, there's a delicate balance there, though, because there are times where you see coaches that aren't deploying their lineup in an optimal way. And so, you know, coaches do have an impact. But there are cases that it's probably overstated. And, you know, Mike Yo, I don't know too many people in hockey that don't believe he's going to be hired this summer somewhere. It could even be in Ottawa with the opening that they have.

But, you know, he's not a bad coach. He didn't mess up. He just got to a point where I guess that they weren't able to squeeze any more out and they felt like they had to make a change. And you're probably right. You know, it's tough. I think coaches get far too much blame at times. And maybe in some cases, you need cases too much credit for a team success. because, you know, really, if you don't have the players to match up,

it's hard to expect to win four out of seven games against the same team. Almost exclusively, the right team wins a series. You know, when you get to the end and you evaluate it and you look back at one unfolded in the games, I mean, it's usually the best team that wins. That's why the playoff format exists as it does. Well, yeah, and I think it's, you know, I personally myself made a lot of the fact that the Capitals drew a pretty tough draw in the first round with the Flyers and maybe that doesn't look like the smartest opinion,

kind of looking back to it now in hindsight, but I was like, it seemed unfair to me that, you know, they really should have been playing the Red Wings, for example, because they should have been rewarded for having the best regular season, and they should play the worst team in their conference. And, you know, to be fair and to be transparent, in the Western Conference, it really has worked out that way where the Stars won the Western Conference,

and they got to play the objectively worst team in their conference, and it looks like it'll work out pretty well for them. and I think it's really good timing because if they can get through this in five games, let's say, and allow Tyler Sagan to get fully healthy before the second round and they watch the Blues and the Blackhawks beat each up, beat each other up a little bit here. That's kind of a win-win for them. Yeah, you know, the reality with the playoff formatting, I feel, is that unless the league was ever willing to go to a fully balanced schedule and then have a one through 16, that we're going to see these occasional mismatches built in. I just don't see any other, way around it and I realize it's all kind of scheduling and travel and logistical reasons why we're

not likely ever to see that that sort of schedule but it was a weird year seeing a couple hundred point teams playing each other and things like that I mean personally I thought at the very least the one to eight seedings seem to produce uh you know better you know better matchups more fair matchups maybe the best way to put it but um you know what we'll see how long they stick with this format because I I don't know off top of my head how long they've agreed to it, but I know it was not a long-term thing. I think that there's an agreement between the NHL and the NHLPA to review it after a couple seasons. And, you know, we might see yet another change depending on how the league views, you know, what's happened here. Well, the incredibly weird thing to me is, let's say we get a

second round matchup of Tampa Bay against the Islanders. Tampa Bay is going to have home ice advantage because they finish second in their division, whereas the Islanders finished some wildcard team. But the Islanders actually had more points in the regular season. than them, so that just seems odd to me. It is. And this year you had where Boston had more points in Minnesota and missed the playoffs as well. And

these things are going to happen. I think when you make it as kind of specialized as it is, it's a weird format. I still haven't put my mind around it. I mean, maybe we're seeing some benefits of it where you get like a Rangers Penguins three years in a row, but you know, I don't know. I don't know if the rivalry thing is real.

I mean, to me, the playoffs themselves are a rivalry in general and you know you see emotional games the matter who plays and and you know as I said earlier maybe Tampa Detroit as a result that they played last year it's it's tough for me to say I mean I guess maybe we have to see it over five or six years and see what we feel about it but you know my my sense and even talking to some players is that they prefer to see it change back to the way it was done previously yeah well I mean my sort of if I was running the NHL fantasy booking scheme and obviously this will never happen because it just goes against so many things the Chal likes to believe in, but if you just let the best teams pick who they played, like, that would

make for just the most riveting entertainment possible. Wow. Yeah. I hadn't even thought of that. Just think about that. You could sell it as like a TV special and the guys have to go up to a podium and pick who they want to play. And then all of a sudden, you know, there's all this, like, the Panthers owner got in

trouble for saying that he'd prefer playing the Islanders, right, in the first round. And everyone was freaking out about it. And imagine if just that happened every year with every series where you're really, you're If you're the worst team, you're essentially kind of using it as fuel and feeling slighted being like, oh, yeah, they wanted to play us. Well, we'll show them why they were wrong to, you know, be careful what you wish for us. So that would be amazing. But of course, you know, the NHL is all about being classy.

You can hashtag that. So it's, it'll never happen, but it's just sort of my pipe dream, I guess. Well, it's funny, too, what that Panthers owner thing is he said it in the most respectful way possible. Like, he didn't come out and say, oh, we're definitely beat the islanders or something. you know, it was, anyway, you're right. Well, the question was posed to him, who would you rather play one or the other? And he obviously picked the islanders,

and I definitely agree with them. I think it was like, what was it, the islanders or the penguins or something? Like, of course you'd rather play the islanders. Exactly. And I don't know. Sometimes we take everything so seriously. I just feel like good on him for being honest.

And he said what everyone else would say if they were the owner of the Panthers. So it wasn't exactly front page news, but I guess honesty sometimes gets people worked up. Yeah. Okay. Let's finish this off. with Blues Blackhawks. And before we get into the actual play,

we need to discuss Andrew Shaw's comments at the end of Game 4 just because they were so inexcusable and reprehensible. And I don't know, just I guess we'll see how the NHL acts. And I'm not sure what the right answer is here. But it's pretty clear that they need to do something. They do. And especially because they've been a league to their credit that's been very supportive of the gay and lesbian community. They've been doing initiatives in large part due to Brian Burke and a son Patrick who works for the league office. But they've been progressive and gotten a number of teams on board.

A number of players have taped messages for You Can Play and supported that initiative. And we saw the Black Hawk team as far back as 2010, I believe it was Brent Soppo who took the Stanley Cup to the gay pride parade in Chicago. So, you know, I think because this is an issue that is obviously gaining more attention in pro sports widely, with the NBA, having had this come up this season, but also because the league has been so supportive of that community, that it's important. They do the right thing. I do think that I've seen some hot takes this morning,

that they should have basically suspended him on the spot type of deal. And really, I think what's important is that they have the audio, that they can prove what everyone thinks was said. And it does clearly look that way on the video. And I remember Adam Silver saying with the Rajon Rosh, situation that he had that it took a couple days to get it verified with a voice specialist so that they could prove it if there's ever a challenge and you know I think that maybe taking their time in this case isn't the worst thing but you know they do have to

react and then you know I think that's to have make a statement that this is unacceptable in the game because we all know that it is yes and I know in the past in sports it's been a bit more of something that that was just what was done but I don't think there's too many people under a certain age now that believes that there's any place for that in the sporting arena. Yeah. The only like arguments defending Shaw I've seen so far, like, oh, people say stuff worse all the time. And that's just not an excuse. And either is the heat of the moment argument where obviously he was very visibly frustrated and upset that the Blackhawks were both losing and that he got penalized for a pretty soft call. But that doesn't make it right to

revert to that sort of garbage. So I definitely think that NHL needs to do something here. Right. And I don't want to, I don't want to villainize him too much. I have to be honest, because I think it has to be more about teaching than punishing. And, you know, like, I can't say in my life I've always said the right things in situations, but, you know, I want it to teaching moment than anything. And that probably means giving him some punishment, but it's not to say that he's the worst guy in the world or that other people haven't said worse. I think it's more that when we see it, we have to correct it and remind people that it's not

acceptable. So, you know, I don't want to be too holier than now on it either because I do think it is a, not maybe common anymore. It's certainly not unique. And he's not the only one to have said it. It's just that we all know about it. And as a result of that, the NHL, I think, needs to make some kind of statement on it. Yeah. And I think that I saw someone make this good point online where, you know, if you give him a really significant punishment, whatever that may be, you don't really like, it's short-sighted. You're missing the forest for the trees if you're getting these players to, you know, try and watch what they say just because they're scared of the ramifications of it. You more so want to educate. and make sure that they understand why you shouldn't do this sort of stuff, why it's hurtful and harmful and you need to act more civilized and just better. Right. Well, I mean, in some cases, it's just literally thinking about it for five seconds. Yeah.

Some of this is just, you know, behavior that, you know, maybe from the environment you're in, you've just heard people say that and you end up just saying it. I mean, I just think there's just an opportunity for everyone to put a little thought on it to think twice about what they say. and to make sure it doesn't happen. You know, we're not far off a day. We're never talking about this. I don't believe.

I think that society in general has come a long way, as has sport. And, you know, this is just another chance to remind ourselves of where we're at and where we need to go as a community and a sporting league. All right. A few final things on this series on ice perspective, because I can hear there's shots being taken in the background there so no one can say that we, this podcast hasn't been playing the game.

Yes, exactly. Rangers are on the ice. Vladimir Teresenko, I think that there's definitely a significant portion of the hockey community that's been paying attention to this guy for the past few years and has realized what a prolific all-world talent he is. But it's kind of cool to see him have this breakthrough performance against the defending champions on a national stage where I think a lot of people are coming around today, the idea now that he's one of the best players in the world and definitely one of the best most lethal goal scores.

in the world. Absolutely. And he, for a couple of years running, has been one of my favorite guys to watch in the league. I mean, he's just, he has such a powerful ability to cut through traffic and still has a skill to handle the puck at high rate of speed. And obviously, his shot is, is his biggest attribute and his ability to score as many goals as he does. And, you know, Vladimir actually had some struggles this year. He went, went through a period, but, you know, midway to two-thirds through the year where he wasn't producing at the level he was happy with. But, you know, it wouldn't surprised me at some point to see him win a rock at Richard. It's always tough when he's going against Alex Ovechkin and his superhuman ability to score. But he is one of the absolute elite snipers.

He's what the Blues needed for years when they had a great team. They didn't have kind of a game breaker. And he's been a game breaker in these playoffs and has really performed well in his entirety of his postseason career. It's too bad he was healthy scratch, what, a couple years ago? No, I was looking back at that three years ago where they, that notable series where they scored like 10 goals and six games against the Kings, he was healthy scratched for five of those games, and it seems remarkable that that was only three years ago. Right, yeah, now there's no one saying the monster contract he signed was a bad idea.

There's no one that doesn't realize he's an elite player in the league. I mean, he's come a long way. He's a fun guy to watch. So the Blues are one game away here. Do you think that they can actually kind of seal the deal and slay the dragon and finally get over this hump, or do you think we're going to see the Blackhawks give one final push here? Well, it's not going to be going to get it done.

And I don't even think it'll count as a surprise. I mean, there's always an element of surprise because the Blackhawks have been the dominant team of this era. But I saw a lot of people picking the Blues and I was one of them. And, you know, the Blackhawks didn't play particularly well down the stretch in a regular season. They've been, you know, not scoring goals at the rate they had in the past. There's just, there's been, there was hints that this was coming. And, you know, St. Louis on the other side to give them credit, there's been a strong team that haven't been able to get it done,

but I think it is finally the year. And my goodness, as I mentioned earlier, if we have the Blackhawks and Kings out in the first round, which is possible, the opportunity now for teams like a St. Louis, like a San Jose, like an Anaheim, to sort of remake their image as teams that couldn't get it done. I mean, this is going to be the spring. I think that we're going to see a new team win

and sort of change maybe the view of what that organization and our franchise is. Yeah. Well, and I don't mean to get ahead of ourselves here, but I think if the Blackhawks lose here in the first round, this is a pretty big summer for them, right? Because they gave up quite a few assets to get rentals like Ladd and Fleischman and Dale Weiss. And, of course, with Panarin reaching all of his bonuses, they're probably going to have to get rid of some guys just because of that kind of salary cap bump that he's going to have.

So I don't know. And then you look at a guy like Hosa who still has a lot of years left on his deal at a lot of money, but he's nowhere near the player he once was. And depth is all of a sudden a legitimate concern for this team. And I'm kind of very curious to see how they approach her this summer. Right. And I'm curious in the big picture. It's not this summer yet, obviously. But when do they sort of acknowledge that they need to rebuild? And how does that look? Because, you know, I don't fault.

I mean, look, every job. GM's going to make some mistakes. I don't fault Stan Bowman for going all in. I mean, when you have three Stanley Cups, the way that that team does, you're like, you'll do anything to get the fourth. I mean, you're in very, very special territory historically in the league. And, and, you know,

I understand what he had to do and why the team has built the way it is, but you know, I would have to think, barring something unexpected, that they will have a precipitous fall at some point just because of what you mentioned. There's so much money tied up in a core that at some point isn't going to be able to get the job done for them the way they have

for so long. And you're right, there's already more challenges this summer. It's another summer where we're contemplating them removing pieces rather than really adding. I mean, they might add some young players on entry-level deals and hope to get something out of them as a way to handle their calf issues. But it seems like every summer there is intriguing because of all the maneuvering that has to go on. And this is certainly going to be one, whether they come back and beat the blues or whether their season's done in a matter of days. Yep, for sure. All right, Chris, I'll let you go to enjoy that ranger's practice and report on it.

I can't wait. Enjoy the, I guess you're going to Panthers Islanders tonight, so enjoy that. And we'll make sure to get you back on later in these playoffs, okay? Sounds great. On the train to Brooklyn tonight. Cool, man. Talk soon. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri

Filippovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey pdfast.