The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 85: And The Winner Is..

Episode Date: May 4, 2016

With the league steadily announcing the finalists for the various individual awards up for voting this season, Chris Johnston joins the show to help shed some light on how he filled out his personal ballot. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 0:30 Methodology for filling out ballot 2:21 The Selke Trophy 7:00 The Calder Trophy 13:30 The Norris Trophy 19:18 Kris Letang's suspension 23:20 The Jack Adams Curse 26:30 Bruce Boudreau's next job 31:30 The Vezina Trophy 37:10 The Hart Trophy Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Stitcher and can also be streamed right here on the website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave a glowing review. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theas, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl defensive end, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and of course the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

These days, everything is go, go, go. It's non-stop hustle all the time. Work, friends, family. Expect you to be on 24-7? Well, sometimes you just need to reach for a Coors Light because it's made to chill. Coors Light is cold-loggered, cold-filtered, and cold-packaged. It's as crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. It is literally made to chill.

Coors Light is the one I choose when I need to unwind. So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the HockeyPEDEOCast.

My name is Dimitri Filippovich. and joining me is someone who I think honestly at this point should have his own intro music because it just feels like a bit redundant for me to keep introducing him considering he's been on a million times now it's our good buddy Chris Johnston Chris what's going on then I am happy always to field your calls to be back all right I know it might seem a little bit silly to be doing this right now considering we've got some fantastic playoff series going on we're in peak playoff playoff season but I think uh the other sort of

subplot that's been going on in the hockey world right now has been these daily releases of the three finalists for each individual award and seeing as you're a pro hockey writer's association member and you had a ballot and you voted on some of these guys. I think it could be a fun exercise for us to go through the ballot and see if we can either come to an agreement or if we disagree somewhere, have a good discussion about it. I'm sure we will disagree. I've been doing this probably six or seven years now, maybe even a bit longer. And, I found this to be one of the tougher years just with a few awards where, you know, I really had to go over and over my thought process and refine it and just, you know, try to make the right decision. But I do think that this year did present some interesting choices and, you know, I'm sure we'll find some disagreement on those.

Well, we should preface it by saying, like, I think having a disagreement is good because if everyone just agreed on everything, there would be no point of this stuff at all, right? it should be like you just do common sense stuff. I think they're definitely, for most of these awards, you can make a very strong argument for a couple different guys. I think as long as you can actually make an argument that's based in reality and not just some sort of wild intangibles or if you haven't even really thought about it, you're just throwing around names,

then I have an issue. But as long as anyone out there has an argument for a guy, and I'll listen to it and I'll respect it, even if I disagree with it. Exactly. And, you know, I just see a lot of commentary on this stuff on Twitter. So I'm sure we'll have a bit more of a civil discussion, but that doesn't always happen out there in the social media universe. We'll see about that.

You know, I get fired up about these awards. So I know no promises. Let's start with the Selke. And the three finalists or the three nominees that were listed by the NHL were Bergeron, Copatar, and Kessler. And I think it's fair to say that no one should really have an issue with the first two names. It seems like they're sort of mainstays on this ballot. it, but I think the third one in Kessler was incredibly surprising to me because it's such a divide between what I think that I just wonder, like I had to take a step back and think, did I miss

something big here? Was I just not watching the right sort of stuff because it just seems so out of left field to me? Well, I'm missing it too, to be frank, if that is the case, because, you know, it's not that I didn't consider Ryan Kessler, but I just, especially in the top three, you know, I don't know how you make the argument for him this year. I didn't see it. I actually had Joe Thornton in addition to Bergeron and Copatar is my top three. I just thought that Joe had such a tremendous season. Obviously drives a lot of possession when he's on the ice and controls the puck for the sharks.

And, you know, really hasn't gotten over the years a lot of attention, perhaps, you know, for an award like the Selke. But, you know, I felt deserved it. And, you know, with Kessler, you know, he had a decent season. But, you know, to put them in top three here, you know, I'm not sure what I missed that the other voters did. That one for me was a bit of a tough one to try to put my mind around. Well, the thing that I love about Thornton, I completely agree. I have him third on my list as well, is that, or in the top three, is that when you look at it on the surface, it seems like a weird fit because you'd think, especially a guy this late in his career, you'd think that portion of his game would have deteriorated by now and he'd be more of a power play specialist or something like that. and he's still dominant on the power play.

But it's just a good reminder that there's different ways to be successful at defending in the NHL. And one of them is just having the puck way more often than your opponent because then you don't have to do a lot of chasing. And he's just such a master at whenever he has a puck, it's just like I feel like I've been saying this all year now. If he stays health permitting, I feel like he could be doing this as long as he really wants for another couple of years at least. Just because watching some of these defenders trying to get the puck off of his stick when he protects it with his body is just, he just puts on a master class pretty much every time he's on the ice. Well, and it's making me think that I greatly miss, I guess, didn't give the sharks enough credit heading into these playoffs because of that.

And I thought Joe had a great year, but I didn't see coming, you know, what's happened where they're, you know, looks like they could, you know, possibly make a run all the way to the cup final just based on the way they've played through the first, you know, round and a half year so far. And Joe is such a big part of that at his age. I mean, I don't know if he's found the fountain. youth or what, but, you know, he's been good, don't get me wrong, the last couple seasons, but I feel that this one was special and, you know, I'm a little disappointed.

I mean, that he doesn't at least find his way into the top three, you know, as a finalist for that because, you know, I think it would represent a different understanding of, you know, the value in his skill set that, again, hasn't necessarily been part of the conversation during his career too much. And, you know, if he can do it again next year at age 38, then I'll be banging the drum for him again as well. Yeah. And I think the, the, the, the, the, fourth name we should include here is Sean Couturey, and I understand he missed nearly 20 games, and for some people, that's a big no-no when it comes to these awards. But it's just endlessly amusing to me that you, for this award, you really need to have a requisite amount of scoring

to your name, even though I checked and the description of the award says the most skill in the defensive component of the game. So I think it's fascinating, especially since like a guy like Cucurier just, you know, significantly outperformed Ryan Kessler when you look at 5-on-5 production, particularly when you rate for the amount of minutes they actually played. And I just think, I don't know, I thought that the discussion had changed a little bit about Okachari, people had finally begun to appreciate just how good he is. But I don't know, maybe just the missing 20 games was a bit too much for other people to overlook. Yeah, and I guess each voter brings their own criteria to this.

I mean, as we'll find out as we go along, I'm not one. who necessarily penalizes you for missing some amount of time. I mean, it's obviously part of the consideration. Because if you do it over 62 games versus 82, you know, maybe there is some difference in how you're looking at that. But to me, that shouldn't disqualify anyone, you know, from being considered for these type of awards. Well, I think that's a perfect segue then.

I was going to do the Norris next, but, I mean, I think we have to discuss the Calder now because you just, you teased it so expertly there. And I was in the Connor McDavid camp this year. He got my number one vote. And, you know, I discounted, I didn't look at, you know, whether Artemey Panarin played those years in the KHL or his age, because it frankly isn't part of the award. I take the descriptions that are given out by the league very sort of black and white, you know,

who is the most proficient rookie this season is essentially what it is. It doesn't say 18-year-old rookie or 19-year-old or certain amount of experience, but I still believe even as great as Artemian's season was, you know, I had McDavid first and him second. and simply because, you know, the best points per game, to me, the most impactful rookie, not only for his team, but around the league. And, you know, to me, it's difficult because he missed almost half the season. And I know some people won't like that. But, you know, I just think that even the fact that he missed that time, excuse me, man,

and then came back and the way he played almost immediately, I just, I couldn't overlook, you know, how special that year was, even though we only saw 45 games. Yes. I think he was just, it's not that he was really good in those 45 games he played, it's that he was arguably like one of the best players in the league, right? Not just for a rookie, just anyone you consider in the pool. And that's amazing for a guy, regardless of his age, to be that dominant when he was on the ice.

So I think you have to account for that. And I don't know, it's tough. I think the way I view these awards is I like them in the sense of being a time capsule, right, where we can look back at this five, 10, 15 years from now and get a good picture of what happened in 2015, 16. And I think there's very little argument that we're going to look back years from now and, you know, and anyone's going to disagree with the fact that Connor McDavid was the best rookie to come out of this class. Well, and, you know, part of the process that I do when I'm doing these awards is I make phone calls to people around the league. And obviously, I don't

just defer to their opinion, but I'm trying to get a sense from people who see the game differently than I do what they see. And there was an overwhelming, you know, almost surprising to me, a sentiment that it should be McDavid from people who work, obviously, for other teams. And, you know, it's not all Canadians or anything. It's not there. I don't think there's a bias there. Just a feeling in general.

Because I know that that always creeps into the conversation, whether it's West Coast, East Coast, or maybe in this case, some might claim because Panarin's a Russian and, you know, the other candidates are North American, that maybe that would enter into the thought process. But really, I just mean to say that, that, widely across the league, people that work in front offices, you know, just viewed him simply as the best player, as did I. And, you know, that's why he did get my number one vote. Yeah. I think that's perfectly fair. I think the other names are interesting because Gostas Bear obviously sort of took the league by storm with the nickname and the emojis.

And obviously just being such an exhilarating player to watch. It's, it's the point production is one thing, but just watching the little things he does. know he has that patented little twist of the hips when he's trying to fake a guy out when he's coming out of his zone, which is just so fun to watch. And he does all these subtle little things that give him and his team an advantage. And he's a remarkable player. The one question I had was, did you give any thought to maybe having Colton Parico ahead of Gostis Bear on this list? I gave it thought, but I didn't end up putting him. I had Colton Fifth, even, and I had third was Gossus Bear with Eichel and fourth.

But there was some thought to it, for sure. You know, one thing that I think stands out as well about Gossus Bear is just how much the Flyers season started to change when he was playing, when he was called up and then started playing big minutes for them. And, you know, he really made an impact on that team. And, you know, it was, I think, a revelation. I mean, there was a little bit of hype around him from some of the Flyers fans I follow on Twitter.

But, you know, I don't think too many people forecasted that that kind of year he had. and, you know, I'm with you. I just think he was a fun story. And, you know, in my eyes, you know, very worthy of, you know, being a finalist for this award. Well, I think it's safe to say that the NHL is in pretty good hands with the amount of young talent they have here. I mean, just look at guys like Jack Eichol and Dylan Larkin aren't even getting any attention for this award. And I think that is a testament to just how much the game has changed in the sense that all these young players are immediately stepping into the league and contributing at high levels where I, feel like in the past that was a much tougher thing to do. But the game is trending so much more

to a faster game that's featuring younger players than I think, I think it's pretty fun for us. It is. I mean, and look, even Matt Murray wasn't even eligible for this. He could help the Penguins to the Stanley Cup for all we know the way he's playing. I mean, you're right. We've never seen in history of time when so many young players made such a big impact. And, you know, it's, it's funny because I wonder if it would have happened sooner if the thought process was different. But clearly one of the things that spurred it in general is that teams need players on entry-level deals in their lineup to be successful in the salary cap. And I think as a result, you've seen more players get an opportunity sooner than they might have in the past.

And obviously, with some of these special talents, they're making good use of it. I even remember just anecdotally earlier this year, the Leafs played a game against Detroit. And afterwards, I was just chatting with Geoffrey Lupal, who was, I believe, a seventh or eighth overall pick in his draft year. And he was blown away by Larkin. Like he said, I can't believe. how much confidence that guy has when he plays. He basically acts like he's a star in the league already,

and he's got 20 games or whatever he had at that point. And he was saying it in awe, not in a negative way. And, you know, it's pretty cool that, you know, every year I get excited to learn about the new rookies because there's always a guy or two you haven't, you know, considered too much entering the league who can come in and really make a pretty serious dent on their team. Yeah.

Well, I mean, you never want to sort of take this stuff right granted, and it's very possible that we'll look back a few years from now ago. this rookie class was, you know, exceedingly special and it wasn't necessarily the norm moving forward. But I do think that just the way the league's been trending that I fully expect next year we'll be having a very similar discussion at the end of the year, just kind of raving and ranting about all the remarkable young talent that came into the league. Well, there's certainly a lot of excitement as we look ahead a bit to the draft with especially the three picks. But, you know, even some people believe there's going to be more impactful players there. and then, you know, guys that are playing in the HL this year. I mean, there's lots of options, I think, for us to find excitement, you know,

when we get to next year's called or vote. Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right, let's move over to the Norris. And the three finalists were Carlson, Burns, and Dowdy. And I think it's tough to take issue with that. I think those were my top three as well. I think the order might be something that's going to lead to good argument amongst people. but I think those three guys sticking out from the rest make a lot of sense.

Yeah, and this is one I know for a fact, you and I are lined on because I've been in Eric Carlson-Admire for the season. And, you know, it's amazing. This conversation is still cropping up just, you know, with the reporters at a bar during the playoffs here, you know, that so many people believe in Dowdy. And, you know, I haven't done any even informal polling. But I won't be surprised if Drew wins. it just seems that there's a pretty large sentiment that think he deserves this for some reason. And, you know, I saw Sean McIndo, our buddy did a pretty good piece going back year by year, kind of dispelling this notion that, you know, he's somehow been robbed in the past. That really there wasn't a season where he was overwhelmingly the best defenseman.

And I would include this year in that. I drew, had a very good year, but what Eric Carlson did was special. And it was, it's deserving of the achievement. And I don't know if it's just that people are tired of seeing the same guy win. or what it is or just maybe something about the way he plays. But, you know, I've been a huge admirer of him for seasons. And I think with that senator's team to put up the points he did, the assists he did, to drive possession the way he did.

And the effect when he wasn't on the ice, it was pretty clear to me that he's the guy that should win this trophy this year. Yes. And I think the one argument against, or I guess there's a couple arguments, but one of them is how can you vote for a guy whose team didn't even make the playoffs? and I just wonder how many of those people that are making that argument are still going to vote for Patrice Bergeron in the Selke. Exactly. And I just don't see it as being part of the conversation.

I really don't. I mean, maybe with the heart because of the way it's worded player adjudged to be most valuable to his team, you know, you can argue, I guess, that he didn't propel his team far enough or something. Right. But, you know, I personally, again, I don't hold a playoffs versus non-playhouse. I mean, he's not responsible for the owner of his team who, you know, isn't spending as much. money as other teams to give them a chance to win. I mean, I just don't see that as being a criteria that should be heavily weighed. And, you know, to me, he's the clear winner of this award. And, you know, I'm going to be very curious. That's probably the most interesting reveal we'll get

that night because, you know, as I just sort of taking the temperature from people that vote for these things, I sense that Doughty had a lot of support out there. Yeah, well, so what's the, The way it's determined is by you tabulate everyone's votes and then it's the guy with basically the highest average, right? It's not the most first place votes? No, we vote one through five for each of the awards we're talking about here. And there's an inverse point structure. I believe it's like 10, 8, 6, 4, something along those lines. We can look it up afterwards to be sure.

And it's just basically the most number of points. And I believe last year, if I'm not mistaken, that Drew Doughty had more first place votes. then did Carlson, but Carlson won on total points. But I'd have to double check that, but it was very close last year. And as I say, I do, I mean, I don't want to criticize my fellow writers because I do respect, you know, that my opinion isn't the only opinion out there. But I just don't understand this notion that he's owed one or that, you know, to me, it shouldn't matter. I mean, he has plenty of time left to actually earn one on based on his play. It's not, we're not, you know, running out of time here to, to,

to reward Drew Dowdy for his career. I think there's still a few years left in the tank. Exactly. But even if he doesn't win one, I mean, I guess it will be unfortunate because he's clearly a great defenseman. But every year to me is a time, like, it's its own time capsule. It doesn't matter. You know, we're only voting on the 2015-16 North Trophy. But there seems to be this sort of legacy element floating around. I've seen people make in columns and stuff, you know, late in the regular season when we were talking about this more. And, you know, to me, it's just something I don't think should be a factor at all. you're voting. Yeah, I mean, for me, like, I've been on the record saying Carlson's just, since

pretty much the start of the year, I just been running away with this award. But as times gone on, the, like, I'm coming to terms of the fact that Drew Doughty might win this award just because it certainly feels like there's going to be at least a segment of the voters that'll just, you know, bump Carlson all the way down because they just don't believe in either the fact that he didn't make the playoffs so he can't win this award in the first place, or he's such a lot of I believe defensively, so he shouldn't even be second, right? Like, I feel like whereas everyone, for the most part, is probably going to have Dowdy either second or third on their list.

And based on that point structure, it's quite possible that he's going to win it just purely based on kind of hanging around the top of the highest number of ballots. Right. I think we should do the math that night when they release the awards to make sure that both of these guys run every single ballot. Oh, my God, yeah. Because given that you have five votes, a top five, you know, to me there's no case to be made that either of them would be the sixth best or lower defensemen this season. And then,

you know, I'm just very curious to see about that because, you know, maybe there is a bit of anti-carlson segment out there, you know, as well. So how'd you, uh, how'd you round out the top five then? What were the next two guys? Uh, just let me get over to my list here. I don't want to give factual information. I had Burns, Le Tang, and Suban and Fifth. Okay. Yeah. It was, was my, was my top five. Yeah, Sue Ben was fantastic as well. It's a shame that the Habs just plummeted so hard and then obviously hit the unfortunate end to the season with injury. But LaTang is a good pivot point for us because he had a questionable hit in yesterday's game game three. And I think the suspension might already be announced by the time we released this podcast. So we shouldn't probably

speculate too much about it. But I did want to talk a little bit about that hit because you were at the game. And I know, what was the sentiment from watching it live and from talking to people around the rink on whether it was really a hit that should be, uh, penalized for more than just the one token game or even a fine. Well, you know, one of my thoughts was it's too bad the referees. You know, maybe it was just late enough. They didn't see it in a good enough way in real time. But, you know, I believe it was about the 15-minute mark of the first period.

I mean, if he maybe gets ejected there and gets a five-minute penalty, you know, it might not rise to the suspension level. It's a little bit similar to the Brooks Orpick incident that happened in the series in game two where he knocked Oli Matt out and only got a two-minute penalty. and I feel that part of the Department of Player Safety's decision making was that he probably should have missed that game at minimum and, you know, probably ended up getting an extra game as a result. But, you know, to me it's a late hit. And, you know, I expect them fully to get a one-game suspension.

I'd be surprised if it was more than that just based on a few conversations I've had. But, you know, I've got no problem with that. I mean, I think it presents an obvious challenge for the Penguins in this series. And, you know, Chris Lathang, he's a feisty little guy, really. He's really competitive. I mean, that's part of his makeup. And I think he just crossed the line a little bit here. It wasn't certainly as bad in my eyes as the Orpick hit,

but, you know, it was still late and it was still an opponent in a vulnerable position. And, you know, I just, I don't like to see that. Yeah, I definitely think the hit itself is something that we really want to get out of the game when we talk about all the head hunting and the head trauma and everything like that, just because it's pretty clear that Marcus Johansson, couldn't defend himself on the play. And LaTang easily could have eased up on that play. It wasn't like he'd already committed to it, and he had to finish his check.

He pretty clearly made a point of making Johansen pay for being in that vulnerable position. And I think that that's sort of the thing people, when they discuss, kind of players having respect for each other and all that jazz, that this is what they're talking about, right? Where Latang doesn't need to do that, but he decided that he wanted to do it anyway. So he definitely should be punished for that. Right, and I was talking to a former NHL player last night, and he said, the thing that people might not understand is that when you're on the ice in that moment in this game, you know, there's so much intensity, obviously there's pretty high stakes,

and you see a guy like that, your eyes light up. He said, you just, you know, afterwards you feel bad when you knock someone out. But in the moment, it's hard sometimes not to go and punish that guy. And I agree that, you know, on some level, you know, I think this attitude is changing but needs to continue to change because those are the type of hits that see players miss a lot of time with concussions potentially doesn't appear that that was the case

for Marcus Johansson but it was a dangerous hit I mean there's no doubt there and you know I think that they need to send that message by or continue to send that message by suspending those type of plays even though you know I'm sure he wasn't actually trying to well I shouldn't say I'm sure but I don't think he was trying to put the guy

in the hospital it's just it's a fast game and I do have respect for that, that the margins are small for decision-making. But, you know, to me it's a bad decision. The Penguins are up to nothing. With taking such an important part of his team. And, you know, in that moment, I think he has to have a little bit more rein himself in because, you know, him missing time is going to be very difficult for the Penguins to make up for. Yeah, you know, he's been remarkable what playing.

He played nearly 70 minutes combined in games one and two, and he once again came close to 30 again in game three. And it's not just that he's been logging a lot of. of minutes. He's been extremely productive in those minutes and really has been ever since Mike Sullivan took over. And I think this is a good transition to discussing the Jack Adams because, I don't know, do you think that Mike Sullivan coaching only, I think, 54 games during the regular season is too short a sample to reward him for being the coach of the year? Or do you have someone else in mind? Well, at least this one we don't actually vote on. So this is just off the top of my head a little bit more. but I do think that for me he deserves, he merits serious consideration. I mean, if you look at where the penguins were, the day, literally the day he was hired and Mike Johnson was fired, the Penguins were 27th in the league and scoring and all the different metrics and they've been first ever since. I mean, it turned right around and to me that's, I mean, he's got great players, so obviously he had the ability to do that, you know, more than maybe some coaches elsewhere. But, you know, it's, it's, it, it's, it, it's, it, it's, it, it's, it,

I don't know how you would make a case and it hasn't been a good coaching job that he's found a way to get more out of these guys. I mean, I think his influence is pretty clear in the number of young players they brought up that he was coaching in the American Hockey League with Wilkes-Berry and then, you know, his trust and faith in them

is a testament in my eyes to his coaching and, you know, getting the organization to put a Connor Shiri into the lineup and bring him up. Tom Koonakle, Brian Rust, you know, Matt Murray, even there's been a lot of change, actually, in Pittsburgh. I mean, the stars are the same, but the supporting cast, you know, has really changed in the time that Mike Sullivan's been here. And, you know, as a result, I'd like to see in general with this award, it more go to guys that are coaching good teams rather than kind of good stories. You know, I think that, you know, yes, if you have great players, you should be coaching them up.

But, you know, Barry Trots, it's hard to argue he didn't have a good year in Washington. I mean, you know, that's another guy. maybe you look at, you know, for this type of war, but it always seems to kind of be a comeback kind of story that wins it. Well, I mean, yeah, and then you get into the trouble of basically when you're just sorting by PDO for the season and picking the guy that had the best good fortune, you wind up with the past three winners being Bob Hartley, Patrick Waugh, and Paul McLean. And yeah, I think that that list of guys really sort of says it all because there hasn't been any longevity there. And they all look silly looking back at it now just because it's probably, you

You know, they should get a certain amount of the credit for keeping their teams together and helping them have those years. But at the same time, it's pretty clear that there was a lot of good fortune involved that they were the beneficiaries of rather than they were instilling some sort of fundamental changes to their teams. Right. And, you know, I think the attitude might be changing on this a little bit. But, you know, it just seems that the great coaches aren't the ones very often getting recognized.

It really is, you know, the teams that, you know, get that surprising run of success. I guess people get caught up in it. But, you know, I'd like to think even, you know, today with Bob Hartley being fired by the flames, I mean, and last year, you know, less than a year ago at this time, he was accepting the Jack Adams. You know, given what we've seen happen with a number of these guys, you know, I would hope that, you know, those that vote on the award maybe start thinking, you know, evolving or thinking on it a little bit because, you know, I think some good coaches are missing recognition as a result. Yes.

So that's a good place for us to discuss Bruce Boudreau, because, I think he should merit serious consideration for this award this year, which is funny, considering he doesn't even have a job with his team anymore, but he just did such a remarkable job in adjusting on the fly and making those fundamental changes to his team, you know, sort of turning them into a more defensively oriented neutral zone checking team because you realized that they weren't converting very many of their chances or they weren't getting great goaltending and he needed to sort of refine their game. I thought the adjustment they made in season was remarkable in that regard.

So I think he's on this list for me, Barry Trots, as you mentioned, Mike Sullivan, and Ken Hitchcock, just because the Blues had so many injuries throughout the year to key players, and they just really didn't miss a beat all season. Right. And, oh, man, I lost my trade of thought there. Sorry. That's okay. Well, okay, for Boudreau.

Obviously, there's a lot of speculation now that Calgary is going to jump in on this, because they just got rid of their coach. Do you think that sort of seems like an inevitability, or do you think that some of these other potential openings, whether it be Minnesota or Ottawa or even a surprise team, or could get in on it? Or do you think he's going to go to Calgary? Well, the early sense is that they're maybe not a huge rush in Calgary.

So that suggests to me that it's not a fait accompli that, you know, because the timing raises questions. I mean, it's been, what, three weeks probably since the flames have played a game. And, you know, for Bob to get fired by a press release at whatever time was, 8 in the morning, Calgary time, you know, today just seems, you know, like, you know, you do wonder. But, you know, I did reach out to some folks, and it doesn't sound necessarily that, you know, that Bruce is all locked up for them. And, you know, really, if you're Bruce Boudreau, I mean, I think you have options.

And I think that you have an ability to drive this process to where you want to go and to look at the rosters of the teams. I mean, he's in my eyes, by far the most qualified candidate that anyone could be speaking with. He's going to, I'm sure he's going to get a good salary. We've seen coaching salaries for the top guys, you know, really spike in the last year or two. And, you know, I think he can almost dictate his terms somewhat. So I would expect Calgary's in on him, but it's not necessarily done based on, you know, maybe the factors he's going to examine. But I'm uncomfortable, frankly, with his.

firing in Anaheim, to be honest. I mean, like, I know that it's hard to, I understand the frustration there. I mean, they've had such a great team and they've had consistently disappointing ends to their season. But it just seems a little too I'm just uneasy

with how great of a regular season team they've been. Even some of the playoff runs they made. I mean, they could easily have won the Stanley Cup last year. I mean, they lost game six and seven to Chicago and, you know, might have beaten Tampa. I know that that's like, coulda, what or should have, But they're awfully close to being there, to lifting the trophy. And it just seems to me, where are you going to find someone better than Bruce Boudreau?

And, you know, they obviously sweated over the decision and Bruce sought coming. But, you know, they tried to, you know, even by extending him more of a lifeline than many thought they would, you know, when they got off to that slow start this season. I just think we're going to look back on it as, you know, a regrettable decision by the Ducks organization to let him go. circling back when you were discussing the salary Boudreau was going to get. Was that whatever the verbal version of sub-tweeting is in the senator's direction? Potentially. I mean, but what I mean essentially is like that he doesn't just have to take the first call and job. I mean, it's no different than any of us.

I think he can consider what city does he what he live in, what team, you know, if we're looking at rosters and depth charts has the best chance to, you know, win soon. You know, where can I make the most money? I mean, the sort of typical factors that go into most jobs, but not always coaching jobs because there's so few of them. I think Bruce is the one guy, much like Mike Babcock last summer, that can talk to a lot of teams and figure out what's best for him a little bit. And he was, what was the unemployed, I think, between Washington and Ann Arnardt was about a day.

And we're a few days in now. And he said that I think he spent 15 hours on the phone the last couple days. I mean, clearly there's interest in him. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a team out there that hasn't fired a coach that would fire a coach if he was willing to go there. And, you know, I just see him as a guy with options. So, you know, Ottawa would have to step up and pay him big money to go there. It's just, it's a fact. What he does is in demand now.

Yeah. It comes with a price. Yeah. And, I mean, if you want to come and spend the summer doing the PDO cast with me, it's more than welcome to as well. I've already extended that invitation. So we'll see if you take that. First is a kind of guy that might do that. You never know.

All right. Let's do the Vesna. And the three finalists have already been announced in there, Holpey Bishop and Quick. And I think this is the award I had the most issue with so far. And I don't know. Let's go with your ballot. Who do you have amongst your top guys? Well, fortunately, this is another one we don't do.

It's the general managers. But I know that in your mind you have ideas of who you think are the best, whatever, handful of goalies this season. If I was voting, I think my toughest decision would come down to Holpey versus Bishop. And, you know, I think Bishop had a tremendous season. And in somewhat of an underrated season, I guess he's getting attention now because, you know, they're in the playoffs and, you know, having success. But, you know, there wasn't a lot of discussion about him. But, you know, I know from speaking with the Tampa guys that they felt that he helped keep them afloat at times, you know, in the early and middle part of the year when they were struggling.

They had injuries. They certainly didn't have the same mojo, you know, for much of the season. but, you know, he helped, you know, keep things afloat and keep them in the playoff race and obviously put them in a position where they can have success this spring. So, you know, I would have had Holti as a runaway winner at one point, and obviously with some of the records he broke on the number of wins he had, it was a great year. But for me, I think it'd be tough.

That would be the one I'd be sweating over between one and two, I think, if, you know, if I was making that vote. Yeah. I mean, there's a bunch of goalies around the league that fit into this category for me, know, guys that I was just flat out wrong about at some point in their career. I mean, whether it's a Steve Mason or a Brian Elliott, I was very skeptical of their abilities to even be league average goalies, and they've both really become very reliable above average guys. And Bishop, I still remember, I was definitely in the camp of, wow, the senator has made a good

trade here. You always trade a goalie you're unsure about for a guy like Corey Conacher who's doing doing good things and producing at the NHL level. And then what, Cory Conacher, like, led his team in the Swiss League in scoring this season. I think they even won the championship over there. So, yeah, I think that trades worked out pretty well for Tampa Bay. It has. And it helped make up for a poor one they made when they went and got Anders Lindback

prior to that. And, you know, there was a notion at that time that he was sort of the best guy who wasn't a number one in the league and playing behind Pecker-N-A. But that one didn't work out. But certainly Steve Arisman found a solution. that's allowed his team really to have some Stanley Cup hopes. And, you know, I would like to see Ben nominated for this word to win it. And, you know, I think that he's right there.

You know, Mark Andre Fleury had, in some ways, a bit of an underrated year. I mean, you're right. This was, I mean, sadly, it kind of goes in cycles. But, you know, with scoring where it was, I mean, it becomes a bit of the year of the goalie. There was a lot of goaltenders that had fantastic seasons and made, you know, a huge impact for their teams. And, you know, some of that is reflected in the fact where we don't have, you know, buckets full of 100 point scores as well. There's a sort of cause and effect involved there.

Yeah. Yeah. Now, Bishop and Holby were amazing. And I think maybe there's just no point really quibbling about this stuff because it certainly feels like Holby is going to run away with this just purely based on his absurd win total and how good the capitals were. And obviously, I mean, it's not like he was just, you know, riding the coattails of that team. He was very good himself and put up good underlying numbers.

But I think it's just tough to reconcile a guy like Jonathan Quick being amongst these three guys when it means that you're not. giving love to, let's say, a Roberto Luongo who had a remarkable throwback season or Corey Crawford, who, you know, we'll discuss this with a heart. Crawford's a good one. But there's a legitimate case to be made that Cory Crawford was Chicago's most important player this season, right? Like, so it just seems.

And then obviously, uh, you have a Cory Schneider, you have a Henrik Lundquist who also fits into that bin of a, where would his team be without him being just remarkable, pretty much on a nightly basis? Yeah, exactly. And I should mention Crawford, you're right to bring him up. I mean, he's another one that's been doubted a lot. I mean, there was, you know, a lot of sort of stories written and people talking that the Hawks were winning cups in spite of their goalie, you know, at times, you know, for Cory Crawford. And, you know, this was, to me, you know, maybe it's unfair, but it was a breakout kind of season.

I think he's opened eyes in a different way. And, you know, he should be easily, you know, put ahead of quick, I would think, on that list. and, you know, the GMs, for one, there's only 30 votes in that one. So the consensus of opinion doesn't have to be nearly as deep when there's, you know, there's more than, I believe, about 140 that writers that vote on the rest of the awards. So you kind of, I think, get a better consensus of what was the best. But, you know, Jonathan Quicken must have been a bit of a reputation call. Like, I can't think of, honestly, I mean, it's something, you didn't have an awful season.

No, of course. It's just he didn't have a top three season in my eyes among goaltenders. I don't know how you would make that argument, frankly. Yeah, I don't either. It definitely seems like a reputation thing. Or I guess he led the league in games played, and maybe people are just valuing a guy that shows up every night and gives his team a chance to win or something like that.

I don't know. I'm just trying to get into the mind of the people that would have thought that he was one of the three best goalies in the league this year. Well, and he makes a bunch of crazy saves. I mean, I get it. There are times you can watch a game and just go, wow. But, I mean, if you look, even a little bit beyond sort of that initial cover of the book.

I just, you know, there's too many players that are much steadier and more consistent performers for their teams and, you know, helping keep them afloat. I mean, you know, playing behind the Kings, I think, is a benefit to Quick as well. He's not tested and near the same way some other goalies are. And, you know, again, I don't want to be too hard on the guy because I don't have anything. I just don't see him as a top three for the time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, let's finish off this discussion with the heart and give me your top guys. Oh man

Well I went with Patrick Kane Number one And you know There's there's sort of no morality clause That comes with this either Much like Right You know some of the other things

That get discussed Whether it's you know guys being injured Teams missing the playoffs But you know For him You know one thing that wasn't discussed a ton About the Blackhawks this year Is you know

John and Taves didn't have Great offensive numbers Didn't have you know I don't think he had As good a season as he's had In the past And you know Kane really

Help drive that the engine of that team. And to win the scoring title by about 20 points, whatever it ended up being, I just couldn't ignore that. I mean, you don't see that happen very often in today's game. And, you know, I just felt from start to finish, he was the top player in the league and was the most valuable to his team, you know, in keeping the Blackhawks going this season. Well, and I think people were a bit slow to come to terms with it. It certainly felt like by the time the first round was starting and people had to release their predictions than more people had kind of come along for the ride in picking the blues. But pretty much for the entirety of the year, it certainly felt like

this Blackhawks team really wasn't of the caliber of the ones in years past. And there were many nights where they just looked very, I don't know, sluggish, a little hapless, honestly. And there were so many games where it was pretty much Patrick Kane and Corey Crawford. And if Kane didn't set up a couple goals and Crawford didn't stop. 35 or 37 shots, they just weren't winning it that night. And I definitely think that just just how significantly he ran away with a scoring race that there's certainly a case to be made for him winning this award just purely based on ice performance. Right. And, you know, I'm not saying he has to be the winner, but just I kept going over this one over and over and over

it. And I couldn't, not that you try to talk yourself out of it, but I just couldn't find someone that I felt comfortable saying was better and was more valuable to his team. I mean, I know there'll be different interpretations, but he had a fantastic season to Patrick King and really took his game to another level. And, you know, I just felt that he should win as a result of that. I mean, I don't know if other people would, you know, kind of the sideline stuff that, you know, started his year, if they'll hold that against him. But, you know, as I say, when it came down to actually making a vote,

I didn't consider or penalize him, I guess, for maybe some of the things that people don't like about his reputation. Right, for sure. Who else did you have on this ballot amongst the top five? I had Sidney Crosby, Jamie Ben, Joe Thornton, and Ben Bishop. Among my five. That's a good list. You know, this is a tough one.

I mean, one thing I don't necessarily like about this award is if I, if I'm a was going to change it. I don't like the idea of most valuable to us. Right. Because I think as an outsider, it's a difficult thing to gauge. I mean, you can tell on certain levels, but you know, we're not in the dressing, and we don't know, and I'm a little bit uncomfortable

with that description, although I think it's forever been thus, but, you know, if we could have it be considered more of a most outstanding player, I think it would be a little bit easier to make these picks, but, you know, I guess we're given the criteria and we have to follow it. Yeah, I think, I think Thornd

has to be in the discussion here just based on the fact that the sharks, what, scored 70% of the goals that were scored whenever he was on the ice. Like that's just such a remarkably dominant feat that he certainly has to be on it. I think it's interesting that you had Bishop on here, not that I necessarily disagree because I also think he should have been in the top three for the Vesna. But I would, if I had a goalie on this list, I would have Lundquist just purely based on how little supporting help he had this year. if you're going with the approach for valuable, right? Just because, what, they had 100 points this year and they won 45, 46 games. And we saw in this postseason against the Penguins that if Lunkwis wasn't completely on his game, there just really wasn't much to fall back on with that team.

Yeah, that's true. We certainly saw that in the playoffs. You know, with Bishop, he got my fifth place vote. So he was five of the guys I mentioned. But I just think that Tampa could have missed the playoffs in a year that they could potentially to win the Stanley Cup without him. I think that he, you know, based on, you know, what I saw, but also in speaking with people that,

that he really, you know, elevated that team and kept them going through some, I think there was a lot of drama there, not even just the obvious stuff that's been reported on. And I don't have a full sense of it. But I think that there was a lot going on with the lightning this year. And it was a struggle. And without him, you know, I don't, I, there's a chance. I believe that they couldn't miss the playoffs.

if he had been even average, you know, at some points during this year. So I elevated them based on some of that knowledge and thought. And, you know, I don't at all expect them to win. But, you know, sometimes I think it's important to acknowledge some of the guys that maybe aren't getting all the buzz, but that, you know, their team thinks he was the most valuable piece to them and has had a strong season. So that's why I gave him that vote there. Well, just like I said with Crawford, it's everyone just expected Tampa Bay to be so good because of how good they were last season. And we kept waiting all year for them to turn it around and just taking it for granted that they eventually would.

And while they were struggling and, you know, a guy like Tyler Johnson kept being in and out of the lineup with injuries. And no one in that team was really thriving that much this season. Ben Bishop was sort of holding the fort and helping guide them through that storm. So I definitely agree that he should get some love here. Right. And as we said at the top, I mean, it's one man's opinion. It would be interesting. Maybe I'm the only guy among the PHWA even gave him one vote.

in June there. I'm sure there's going to be some questionable homerific votes from local guys. I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's funny, I'm somewhat sympathetic to them, to be honest.

My job is, it's much easier to vote on these than my job where, you know, I'm obviously around the least a lot because I live in Toronto, but, you know, I really cover the whole league

and, you know, don't have any kind of natural affiliation because, you know, I think that the local teams put pressure on some of the writers at times to vote for their guys.

And, you know, I'm a little bit sympathetic to the cause. We're all reporters, but there's sort of different jobs out there. And, you know, being a local writer, you rely on the team a lot more. You rely on your relationships with those players to do your job more than, you know, where I think I can stand back and look at the big picture a little easier.

Yeah. Well, I mean, you should tell the listeners that you were emailing me earlier asking me if there's a case to be made for PA Parental to be fifth on this list. That didn't happen. Although PA was a great guy to talk to this year in Toronto. I'll say that. He's one of those, the players. I love the guys around the league that watch a lot of hockey,

and he's one of the guys that you could say, hey, what did you think of this team? And he'll tell you, you know, it's funny. There's literally two camps I find, and now I'm on the tangent, but some guys literally, this is their job, and when they go home, the last thing they want is hockey. Right. And then there's other guys that are in the playoffs right now

that every night their team doesn't play. They're watching every game and can break that down. And, you know, I like the guys in the latter pool because I find they help me understand the sport even better. Yeah, definitely. All right. So speaking of, what are you, we'll end with this. What do you, what are you watching these days? I know you're covering Penguins Capital, so you're obviously keying in on that series. But what sort of, what sort of nuggets are you looking for in these next couple days? Well, I'm watching literally every possible game that I, that I'm able to, you know, when I'm not at the rink in the Penguins Capital series. And, you know, it's a, to me, it's a fascinating playoffs. I know that there's all this talk about no Canadian teams or no original 16. teams, but the fact that the door has kind of been blown wide open and, you know, one of these

teams is going to kind of remake their story. I mean, the best teams, you know, the teams that I view is having the best chance to win the cup at this point are St. Louis, San Jose, Pittsburgh, and maybe Washington just off the top of my head. And all those organizations have kind of had the storyline that they've been, you know, unable to get the job done the last number of years. So, you know, I'm fascinated to see how that turns out. And, you know, I've been loving watching the Western games because those are the ones I've been able to see the most, just, with, you know, getting my work done and, you know, getting to a TV to watch them. Yep, for sure.

All right, Chris, well, I have no doubt that we'll get you back on the PEDEOCast sometimes soon. As you hear, the Puck's going on in the background, is practice starting? The capitals are coming on the ice here in Pittsburgh. There we go. Chris, it's been fun as always, and we'll chat with you soon, okay? Thanks, DimitioCast with Dmitri Philipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at SoundCloud.com. slash Hockey PDOCast.