The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 88: Becoming A Historical Footnote

Episode Date: May 27, 2016

Jeff Marek joins the show to discuss this year's Memorial Cup, how dominant Mitch Marner and the London Knights have been, and some half-baked ideas for how to improve the on-ice product moving forward. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 0:30 Former players as broadcasters 6:00 Memorial Cup Coverage 9:00 Mitch Marner's dazzling play 16:30 Draft eligibility 24:00 Rule change ideas 41:30 San Jose Sharks storylines 47:00 Viewing Junior Hockey differently Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Stitcher and can also be streamed right here on the website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave a glowing review. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Demetri Filipoic. and coming to us live from Red Deer, where he's taken some time away from being a big TV star to respond to all the fans that have been clamoring for him to come back on the PDOCast. It's Jeff Merrick. Jeff, what's going on, man? A couple of things.

All you did was pull me away from the end of a dinner with all of our colleagues here at Sports End and Red Deer for the Memorial Cup, where they all are in meat comas on the couch watching Sydney Crosby, a host of conference championship. And two, I'm only too happy, to be back here on the PDO cast.

And as for being a big TV superstar, I'm not so sure about that one. Well, I mean, I've seen you on TV, so I think that counts. I do. You know what, though? I really get a reality check when I come to a tournament like this and hang out with someone like Colby Armstrong. Because Colby played with the Red Year Rebels,

and then when they won the Memorial Cup in 2001, when it was in Regina. And trying to get out of the rink when you're walking with Colby is impossible. Like, you can't, every two steps, is another autograph, there's another picture, is another catch-up with an old rebel from the good old days, who came down to the ring to watch the game tonight. That is a level of fame that is very unique,

and I really like about junior hockey. The returning junior hockey superstar is a story that never really gets told, but it's a fascinating one when you see it. Well, I like the concept of the, I think it was on Friday night for the opening ceremony when he was down with his team, and you guys had them mic up, and you were trying to talk to him,

but it was just so noisy that he was like, yeah, I can't really, I couldn't hear what you said. So yeah, I'm just having a good time here with my boys. And that was pretty much right. Here's why I'm so proud of Colby, too, and he's come so far on television. Did you notice what he did? So he couldn't hear me, right?

So he would hear our producer give him a cue to start talking. And it takes a long time for someone to be comfortable just talking on television. Like, okay, I'm not taking any direction. So I'm just going to start freestyling. A, a lot of guys would either, A, freeze or B, just send it right back to the panel. but Colby starts freestyle and he starts to do like a scene set

and he's describing there and he's naming off guys. I was like, I was so proud of Colby like I'm this guy that really wants his broadcasting career is working really hard at it and it's one of those breakthrough moments where he just, you know, it's like

okay I've got the ball, I can't hear what's going on but I'm just going to start talking now for two minutes because that's what's in the script. I was really happy. Yeah, yeah, I think that's really bang on because I've said that about a couple former players where you can tell that there's like a little learning curve there because you can tell they have really great insight that they want to share from their playing days.

But then sometimes it takes it takes some some reps to kind of perfect getting those thoughts out in a fluid manner, especially when it's on TV and it's in such a time constraint. So no, he's been he's been, his transition has been really smooth. It's been really good. You know, he's such a charming guy. For whatever reason, and maybe you can explain this to me, Dimitri, for whatever reason, I find that people from Saskatchewan have like this now. natural charm.

I don't know that I've, it's, I can't even describe it. Saskatchewan is such a unique province in Canada, that people that come from there are really low maintenance, really personable. I remember talking to, I never tell you my agent story about Saskatchewan. There's one agent that I was talking to at the Top Prospects game in Colonna a few years ago. And I said,

how can we never hear any problems with any of your players? Like your players are, like, there's never like a whiff of a scandal, they're complaining, they're pouty, like none of it. What is it with, you know, what is it with your, uh, with your clients? He goes, well, my recruiting policy is simple. I call it the 2S solution. And I said, what's that? He goes, I only, I try to really only recruit from two places where the people are all low maintenance, Sweden and Saskatchewan. That's where I try to recruit from. Um, and that's, you know, that's, uh, that's, that's, that's cool of me, man. He's got a real nice charm to, and the key to all of it is trying to be able to find out

who you are. not find it, I shouldn't say that, try to as best you can replicate yourself on television. Like what I find a lot of guys, we've had like, I mean, the last few years at sports time, we've had a lot of guys wheel through and sort of audition. And the one thing that I notice when a lot of guys start is they're not themselves. They put on a performance, you know, they think that they're fulfilling a role. Like, okay, I'm a third line guy. Now I'm doing this role. I'm a fourth line guy. And they take that to television. And so they think they need to act. like everybody else that they see on TV and make those same TV points and make those same

TV sounds. When really, I mean, when you have someone as personable as Colby Armstrong, you just wanted to be a Saskatchewan Beauty. And I keep telling like whenever he'll like go into like TV guy, I'm like Kobe, you're being TV guy. I don't want TV guy Colby. I want Colby Armstrong, right? What's the old starkest tune in a line?

People don't want tuning with great taste. They want tune in that taste great. It's what you want, man. well I think also you don't necessarily want to you know I don't know if dumbing it down is the right way to put it but like you you need to explain yourself rather than just you can't just be like I played so you just have to believe me because I'm saying this like you sort of need to actually kind of get your thoughts out there and explain why you're saying certain things and I feel like sometimes there's that you're so right I think because a lot of guys come to it this is a really wide brush statement um this is a pretty wide brush tale a lot guys come to it thinking that their words will have gravity because they played. And they should be able to get a free pass on whatever they say because they played the game. And so whatever they say is, you know, I've come down off the mountain with these commandments about hockey. And damn it, I played the game.

So they're going to have some gravity to them. Whereas, you know, I know you're a big fan of MJ and so I'm like. I think Mike Johnson is fantastic because he is, A, the guy that played the game. B, the guy that's still curious and C, the guy that's really thoughtful with how we speak. and what he says. Yep. No, he's the best. He is.

He is. He is great. Yeah. Okay, let's get into the Memorial Cup. We're recording this on a Thursday evening. And tomorrow we're getting the, I guess, how do you describe this game? It's between the Red Bulls and the Huskies,

and basically they're playing for the right to get smacked around by the Lemon Nights. Is that a fair way to put it? Well, I don't know if I were hyping this. I don't know that I'd be for a pitchman for this. I don't know that I exactly do it that way. We are trying to encourage people to watch the program. for all. But it's going to be tough to beat London.

Like, I know, we were just laughing about this at dinner. It's like, okay, so the winner of tomorrow's game gets the right to get, you know, curb stomped by the London Knights. You know, London's playing at a different level. Like, it made the joke yesterday on Twitter. Wow, we're one day away from our dream Stanley Cup final with San Jose Sharks against the London Knights. Like, they're playing, like, at this level that's, the best way I described it is maybe,

you know when you have, like, a parent and kids game, and the kids are all, you know, like running all over the ice trying to get the puck off the parents. And the parents are just kind of standing there, passing the puck around. And the kids can't get the puck off of them. Yeah, that's kind of what London is doing. But this is what London is doing to league champions. Like, the beating they laid on the Brandon Weekings, like, nine to one. Like, I've seen them toy with, you know, the Saginaw spirit before.

But this is the Brandon Weekings, like the top team in the Western Hockey League. And, you know, they treated them like they were, you know, like a, you know, like a, a, Pee-Wee AAA team. It is remarkable, but there is a formula to beating the London Knights, and the own sound attack in the opening round of the playoffs were able to do it twice. In the regular season, they're able to do it twice as well. But it's a dangerous formula because it could end up costing you because you need to really be in the face of the London Knights, and you need to play them physically. But the key to that is, if you step over the line and the Knights go on the Power Play, it's over. You've seen it. Like that night's

play is a power play. It's dynamic. And have you ever seen a junior hockey team play the short pass game better than this edition of the London Knights? Like when they start to squeeze in like a constrictor, like all those like three, four, five foot pass that when they get like that really

short game, it's spectacular. And it's terrifying. Like if you're a team and you're trying to kill a penalty with the London Knights, like I wouldn't chase anyone. I would just, you know, stand in the box and hope that pucks go off me Because I don't know what to be.

One of my good buddies described the Rebels Husky semi here as playing for the right to be a historical footnote in the most lopsided loss in Mem Cup final history. And so I went to look back. And the most lopsided kind of finals that I can find are, and you'll probably remember this one, is the 2010 Spitfires over the Wheat Kings. They beat him 9-1. And then I looked at that roster. It's like Hall, Henrique, Ellis, Fowler. They acquired Cassian and Grubauer and Netman. mid-season and it's like a it's like an NHL team so uh it makes sense was it was was luck tianoff on that

team i think i think dale mitchell might have been on that team as well just unfair that was stacked yeah you know that was a stark winser spitfire squad and that was you know that was i think that was the tournament that brandon hosted right uh yeah because there was there was that uh opening night where Travis hammonick remember the opening play taylor hall dumps the puck in travis hamminick's zone hammonick hall goes in to give chase and hammonick hits him the boards from behind and I didn't think Taylor Hall was ever going to walk again. He just went like accordion style into the boards and then pop back up and like two shifts later, you know, put one between his own legs and scored a highlight real goal. Yeah, that was a remarkable tournament

for the, uh, for the winter spitfires, but you're right. We don't usually see a good starching in the final. We may, like last year with overtime, Anthony Sorrelli, uh, the Tampa Bay prospect scores in OT is Osher beats Kelona. Uh, I don't know that we're going to get, um, I, I, I don't know that we're going to get a two to one final. regardless of whether it's the Huskies or whether it's the Red Deer Rebels. Yeah, I mean, this Knights team is just like, you look at some of the names and a lot of these guys are going to wind up becoming household names in NHL, and it's remarkable.

I mean, what Marner is doing is, is this one of the greatest individual performances you've ever seen at this tournament? Yep, and here's what's frightening about Mitch Marner. And actually, before we get to Mitch Marner, I want to make one point two. This is how scary the London Knights are. Cole Sherwood, who's a draft pick of the Columbus Blue Jackets. Okay. He's been drafted into the NHL.

He can't make the lineup. He can't get in there. Evan Bouchard is a defenseman. He's a 99. He's a gold medalist with the U-17s and all-star at the U-17s. He can't make this lineup. Like there are like such a high quality of athlete on this London Knights team. You have a U-17 gold medal winner and an NHL drafted player that can't make it on the roster.

They are a healthy scratched. Every single night, it is stunning. But to the Marner point, you know the best way I ever heard Mitch Marner described, Dimitri, was a scout friend of mine who scouted in the O HL for years. And he's a big Mitch Marner guy. And I said, how would you describe Mitch Marner using like Scouts language? And he said, here's how I see Mitch Marner. Mitch Marner doesn't make the right play.

He makes the better play. Like when he has the puck, you know, a scout will say, well, here's what he needs to do. if they keep in this safe area and do that. And then he starts to do something different. And the skeletons go, oh, no, no, no, he's messing up. And then obviously go, oh, oh, right. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I didn't see that.

That's what he was trying to do. So it's like a complete reeducation on how to play the game. And we're seeing it night in and night out with Mitch Marner. And maybe the, I mean, that last game against Ruanda Huskies was fascinating. Because what's the one thing that we always hear about Mitch Margar? What's the problem Demetri Hill has? playing in the NHL next year. Will he be able to handle the...

Size. And physicality. Yeah. And if you look at how the Huskies went at him, like Timo Meyer is a big boy, San Jose first rounder. He went right out of running them all night long. Philip Myers, a big 6'4 defenseman for Rouen, who's a Philadelphia Flyers signed with the Flyers after camp this year.

He went at him all game long. You know what Mitch Martin did? I scored four points. And I keep, every time I look at Robbie Fabri, I say to myself, you know what, I'm just going to shut up about Mitch Martin not being strong enough because the NHL is ready for these guys. So maybe I'm just going to shut my mouth about another hurdle

that Mitch Martin is going to probably jump over. Well, yeah, to your point about making the better play, just watching him, like the thing that sticks out is, it's that all, like, the highest level a guy can reach at this, where the game is just going so slow compared to the pace he's processing it at that he's like, he's sort of just dancing around on the neutral zone, and then he gets into the offensive zone and he's playing with the puck and he's,

you feel like he could score at any moment, but he's just like waiting for, you know, different, more, like, tougher passing lanes to open up that he can make his teammates look good. And it really, it really kind of looks like he's sort of playing around, but it's, it's, it's, it's art. It is. It's, uh, it's beautiful. It's gorgeous to watch. And I think of the, uh, do you remember the Max Jones goal against the Husky? So the puck goes down into the corner, all right? Chase Marchand, the goaltender, can't play because it's in the no touch. zone and Francis Perron kind of gives a lazy back check-in to get the puck.

Max Jones is first on the puck and he feeds it out front to Mitch Marner who's curling around the net. 99.99% of hockey players, amateur and pro will take the shot, right? And they'll probably fire it in the goaltender's chest. They'll take that shot. Marner hangs on to it and draws Peron so he doesn't know what to do because he doesn't want to commit too far for the past, but he also knows he has to try to. to protect in case he takes a shot.

So Francis Pron ends up spinning. The goaltender, Chase Marsham, bites, and what does Marner do? Slides it back over to Max Jones. I'm telling you, man, every single other player in the world takes that shot. Not Marner. He waits. That extra tiny

little split second and feeds it over to Max Jones. It's brilliant. It's brilliant. Yeah. Yeah, I know. And then obviously you have guys like Kach and Wurak and ULAV and my boy, Cliff Poo. Isn't he the best? with the handshake. You made him famous on Vine.

It's funny because I know, because he works out of the gym that I work out at. So I see him every now and then, and I talk to him every now and again. I'm like, yeah, you know, my buddy Dimitri made you famous for the handshake. He was the first to Vineet.

And it went all over. He's like, oh, man, tell you a boy, Dimitris said, thanks. That was a really good. But you know what? He's another one that, you know, in that game against, yeah, it was the Huskies game,

which was like the parade of the penalty box. Game took like three hours. It was like an old school NHL game. Cliffy got on the ice tons because he's an excellent penalty killer and a lot of the scouts was talking to Winnipeg scout after that game and was like

holy smokes man that's like the I haven't had a lot of viewings of Cliff Poo but man this guy is a hell of a player I don't know if he's going to be offensive at the high end but as far as being like a solid NHLer who can kill penalties and can do a lot of things for you

and is versatile and is a good skater I think Cliff Poo is turning a lot of heads. Like, when you look at the team, like, no one's going to accuse Mitch Marner of being speedy. No one's going to accuse Kachaka being speedy or Dvorak. You know, Cliff Poo is probably the best skater on that London Knights team. Like, that top line moves the puck quicker and thinks at a higher level than anybody else in the tournament. But as far as just flat-out speed, Cliff Poo's got to be the quickest guy

on the team. Maybe Victor Mette, the defenseman, though. But as far as forwards go, Cliff Poo is it. It's great. Well, and that Jersey, I mean, if he actually makes an NHL. That jersey with poo in the back is going to be flying off the right. And you know the chance, right? I mean, it's going to be fantastic.

Now, here's a question for you. Both Todd and Colby, Todd Warner and Colby, Rumsbron, they think that he wears his pants too low. I'm like, guys, this style. It's what are those pants are too low. He's got to pull those pants up. Yeah, yeah. That seems like an old person thing to be complaining about.

You got the hip-hop hockey fans, man. It's cool. I think it's fine. All right. So I thought we'd transition here a little bit because last time I had you on the show, we discussed some sort of abstract big picture ideas about the draft and line changes and changes to the game we'd like to make. And people seem to like that a lot. So I thought I'd run some things I've been kicking around lately in my head and see what you think about them. And one of them is related to junior.

And I wanted to talk to you about Sean Day because it kind of sucks for the guy, right? Like, he's on this list with McDavid, Tavares, and Eckblad, which is cool, except he's, he's the, sort of, one of these things is not like the other. And, and, uh, and I haven't, I've been looking at all these mock drafts and all these top hundred lists and I haven't seen his name anywhere. Like, is he, is he even going to get drafted in this, in this class? Ooh, he'll be drafted. Someone will. Like, you have, when you have this, this skill that Sean Day has, it's like, you get drafted. There, there's no way. Like, I got, it's funny,

because I just talked to one scared a couple of weeks ago about Sean Day, and I said, where do you have Shandai on your list? And he said, I don't. You're not submitting Shanday on your list. He said, you know, someone may get fired for putting Shandai's name on a list and it's not going to be me. That's how polarizing this guy is. I mean, when he puts it all together, it's spectacular.

You know, he's got the size. Could he be, you know, a few pounds lighter? Yeah, probably. But the guy can skate like the win. Like, all, like, he has a lot of the skills that translate to the NHL like that, like next year. but the question about Sean Day is can he think the game at the

same level that he can play it like his skills are at a certain level but his processing of the game hasn't caught up to his skills he used to always say oh yeah wait till wait till this guy's hands catch up with his feet he's really going to be an excellent hockey player I think a lot of people are saying

is Sean Day's processing of the game ever going to get up to the skill level that his feet and his hands possessed and if so then all of a sudden you know, you have the best defenseman in the OHL. Well, it seems like a no-brainer sort of roll of the dice to take, especially since when you look down the draft, it's like, especially like the fifth, sixth round.

It's like, these guys have zero point zero percent chance of making the NHL. Some of these guys that are just taken sort of as, it seems like a no-brainer. But, okay, so the question that I had about it was, and I understand that it's a tricky situation because you could have kind of, I don't know, but you'd have situations where, guys would manipulate this rule and see if they're a top pick and they see a team that's probably going to take them. They don't want to go to that city. They would just kind of pull this card. But I was wondering, wouldn't it behoove a guy like Sean Day if he could theoretically remove his name from

this draft, go back to O HL next year, and try and sort of rejuvenate some of that stock? Let's say he believes in himself that he can put it all together next year and potentially become even like a second round pick or something like that. Wouldn't it make way more sense to him as opposed to getting drafted as a fourth, fifth, sixth rounder and then sort of being just crap out of luck. I understand if you give players this option, you're going to have those situations where a guy's like, oh, I don't want this team drafting me. I'm just going to, you know, go back to wherever I was playing last year and get another kick of the can next year.

But I think it's just interesting, right? Because, like, in other sports, these guys declare themselves eligible for the draft. And I don't know. It's never going to happen because you're never going to, the owners are never going to relinquish this kind of power to the players. But it's, I was just thinking about it, how no one ever really discusses that. Well, you can do it. I mean, you can just not sign, I mean, the CHL specifically,

you can just not sign your contract. You're similar with Dylan. But you have two years. Yeah, so we see like Dylan Sadoey now. I think the deal with Detroit is going to get done. And, you know, Dylan Sadoe is going to be like, I mean, he's got a really good shot. The skating could probably use some work. I love him as like a third line left winger.

You know, he's a really talented player. You know, Connor Bleakley, who plays with the Red Deer Rebels, you know, drafted by the Colorado Avalanche. Patrick Waugh made no bones very publicly about being displeased with the pick to the point where he fired the scout that made it. And as, you know, subsequently been shuttled off to Arizona. Now, if they don't sign him, he goes back in the draft as well. So you can, I mean, there are plenty of guys that have gone back in the draft. Jake Muson, who we all love, right? And there's another guy, you know, who got drafted, got injured, and didn't end up getting signed.

and then ended up, you know, not getting drafted again, but signing with the Los Angeles Kings. Well, who's the most notable guy that's done that? Is it like a Jack Johnson type or something like that? Who's gone back into the draft? Yeah, yeah. Who went back into the draft? Jared Stoll went back in the draft. That's a pretty high name. Jake Muson is probably the more, the most relevant one right now.

but it's rare I mean guys want to you know they just want to you know get drafted and sign their entry level deal and get on the clock as quick as possible I mean it's the race it's the race to get out of your entry level it's the race to get to unrestricted free agency

I should say before we get all the tweets coming in I realize Jack Johnson didn't go back into the draft his rights were just traded before he ever played for the for the hurricanes I and that was and that was interesting too I mean that was that was the vengeance of Jim Rutherford that was angry Jim Rutherford because Jack was

playing at the University of Michigan. And the Carolina Hurricanes wanted him to come out to join him for their Stanley Cup run. And Jack said, no, I'm staying here with Red Berenston and the University of Michigan. And as I'm told, Jim

Motherford was none too pleased about that decision by the player. And the next thing you know, he find himself in the hands in the loving arms of Dean Lombardi and the Los Angeles Kings. Yeah, yeah. All right.

Second one that I thought of. It is, hang on. Let me finish that, though, because that is, it is an interesting idea, the idea of, you know,

having to declare, you know, whether you're going to opt in or opt out. Right. The one idea that, I can't remember who it was, it might be Dale DeGray and Owen Sound.

I mean, I'm not sure who, but there is a general manager in the Ontario League, if want to bring it back to the junior, who has an idea that he would like to push through, which I can't see happening.

But for something like the OHL draft, or as they call it, the OHL priority selection, you essentially do two drafts, one for players who say they'll come to the OHL, and one for players who say they won't. Because, you know, it's always, you know, the big name teams like, you know, the London Knights and New Windsor Spitfires and your Kitchen Arangers that end up, you know, they're really aggressively recruiting. And they get players who say that they're, you know, committed elsewhere to a college. and not going the O.H.L. route, they end up playing, you know, more so with the London

Knights and they end up playing with a smaller market team like the Owen Sound Attack. You look at Mitch Marner. Like Mitch Marner had a verbal to go to Michigan. And that's why he went so low in his OHL draft year and he fell in the laps of the London Knights. And it's worked that well. Well, and behold, Mitch Marner became a, that was another add to the list of guys that become London Knights. And so that is the idea of having not one draft, but two drafts, the junior level, one for players who say they're coming and one for players that declare that they're opting out. I like that. Interesting.

Yeah. Okay, so the second thing that I was discussing was everyone, we had this discussion, it seems like, all year of ways to increase scoring. And the topic of power players obviously comes up because scoring rates increase. And I've heard the idea tossed around that, you know, if you really want to go an extreme route, let's say you take a two-minute minor and the other team scores a goal. 30 seconds in, they just get the full two minutes to stay on the power player

regardless of how many times they score or not, which is interesting, but I thought of another one, which I haven't really heard discussed as much. Let's do it. Let's say it goes to four on four. You have two coincidental minors or something like that. And one of the team scores, all of a sudden, the other

team gets to go on a five on four. Basically, it counts as if they scored on a power play and the other player comes out of the box, and but the other guy stays in and it remains a power play for the other team to just kind of try and increase scoring. It'll juice scoring. It'll definitely juice scoring.

The only, if we want to make this sort of philosophical discussion, I think the first question we need to answer ourselves, if we're going to go the power play route to juicing scoring, is I think we have to ask ourselves, of a 60-minute game, how much of it do you want to be special teams? Do you want 14 minutes of it to be special teams? Do you want 18 minutes, 22 minutes? Do you want half the game?

to be special teams. We all talk about, oh, this isn't hot with a lot of traditionalists, you know, whenever you make a role change, oh, this isn't hockey anymore. And that, there's always sort of,

it's a shifting target anyhow. It's silly to even entertain the idea. But I think we do have to ask ourselves, what is hockey? And if you have, you know, just, you know, if you have coaches saying, you know,

let's just play 50-50 on the 5-on-5 and then take our chances on the power play, is that really what, quote-unquote hockey is. And I know hockey's like artists, whatever you say it is, right? You know, I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it. It's like, yeah, so I can't describe it, but I know it when I hear it. I can't tell you what it is, but I know it when I hear it.

I think it's not maybe the first question we need to ask ourselves, how much of the game do you want to be power plays? And then we go from there. Yeah. No, I think you're right. And I should say, like, I'm just posing this as a kind of an interesting thought process as opposed to actually thinking we need to boost the number of special teams' minutes spend over the course of a 60 minute game because while it would increase scoring, like,

it's so, you don't want that kind of stop and start choppy nature where you're consistently messing with things. Like the best games are the ones where they're free flowing with very few whistles and you're trading chances and going back and forth and guys are getting to show off their skills. So I just purely, you know, if you really want to increase goals, but I don't think that would really solve. It would be like a sort of missing the forest for the tree situation where you're going to boost, you'd have more four or three games, I guess. but it's not going to be that much more kind of aesthetically pleasing to watch. No, it's true.

Let's go to the aesthetics route as well. Are you willing to snuggle up with me on this one, then, Dimitri? Give it a shot. Let's get rid of the blue lines, buddy. Oh, yeah, yeah. Let's just give rid of off sides. Yeah. Like, why are we so in love?

I mean, outside of holding on to the historical significance of the offside, which was really just a byproduct of the forward pass. What's the point? Yeah, I can't think of one, honestly. What's the point? Like, really? What is it? Like, I always look to find a way, you know, I'm always curious to look at elements of the game that are frustrating to hockey fans and try to figure out a way to alleviate them. And I think with something like the offside, the simplest way to alleviate the frustration that revolves around him and all the anxiety we have now about, that is skate leave the ice and did he drag the toe and is, you know, are both blades behind the blick? Are they over the blitz? Can we see white ice between the skate blade? And where's the skate? And where's, we're, the puck when they're doing the zone entry, isn't the best way to remove all that anxiety, just get rid of the blue lines in general?

Yeah, I think I had MJ on recently, we were discussing this, and it's gotten to a point where any time a goal is scored, I'm sort of waiting for that other shoe to drop. I'm just like waiting to see, oh, there goes a coach, challenging this play. You can't really get too invested in any outcome just because there's such a high probability that it's probably going to wind up coming back and you're just going to have wasted time and energy getting excited about it. it's gotten so silly in these playoffs. And I understand that you want to get the call right.

And you don't want one of these blown plays deciding a playoff series. But it's gotten comical at this point. It's gotten comical. I think philosophically, if you take it to the next level of, you know, oh, you don't want to lose a championship based on a puck that was really offside, well, are we going to start putting cameras at center ice for dump-ins as well? To make sure the puck isn't behind center because, oh, what if that dump-in was really ice? I do, I do think about that because it seems like a very inexact science, right?

Where there's so many times, you're just like, was that, did the guy really get there? Like, is it like, they give, like, they give, like, the guy the follow through, even though he was like three strides behind the line and then sometimes they don't. Yep. Oh, totally. I'm with you, 100%, bud. I know.

I always look at those. And I'm, listen, I'm fine with it. I'm like, you know, second base slide. Like, yeah, you close enough, right? I'm fine with that. I don't need to have a black and white game. I like a lot of, I mean, I like my hockey a little bit sloppy, and I don't want to measure it by the millimeter and by the centimeter.

Let me throw this one. Did we talk about my face-off idea? Which is really not my face-off idea. It's original face-off. What is it? What's more annoying than watching, you know, a lion's been trying to get the sticks in the right formation for a face-off and only to see guys get kicked out?

It just waste time, and no one likes it. Yeah. My solution to this one is, And I know we all like the drop, and I guess it's a skill, and players dig it, and maybe fans dig it, but I mean, you spend so much time lining up sticks and so much of a headache. Would you be interested in going back and reapplying the original face-off rule to the NHL? The original face-off rule was this. The two players lined up at the dot and they put their sticks in position.

The puck is already on the ice. There's no drop. You blow a whistle and you play the puck. That way, there's no cheating. you're not looking at the puck, you're not, you know, cheating out. The sticks have to start in the right position. And if they're not, then it's either a penalty or you're kicked out. But those sticks start there because the puck is already on the ice.

So you're not anticipating a drop, which is getting players kicked out. And then it says, oh, I just dropped the puck, just dropped the puck. How about just starting with the puck on the ice? Yeah. Then you blow a whistle. Yeah, I could, I've never really, this is why we have you on the show to iron out. I'll iron out stuff like this and really draw my attention to problems that I never considered problems before. Now you're just complicating the game from you, Jeff.

You know what? I spend a lot of time thinking about stuff like this. My wife's always saying to me like, what important life things has bled out of your brain now to make room for stupid things like how to fix the face-offs in hockey? Yeah, probably a lot. But here's my life. This is your life.

Yeah, these are the important life things for you. Here's my life, man. You got any other ideas along this vein, or should we move on? Yeah, the blue line's a big one for me. I'm a big fan of going between that roller hockey international style. I mean, I'm with you, Demetra. I mean, up and down the ice back and forth. I do want to make this point about the off sides,

because it seems like the biggest counterpoint is, oh, teams are going to start cherry picking a lot, and it's going to ruin the game. No, it's not. I don't even think it's going to be as extreme as you think it is. Maybe at the start, but then eventually, I mean, hockey's such a conservative game. You're never going to see these teams leave themselves prone

to scoring chances against just to try to create offense. It's going to stay the same. I don't think there's going to be this unconscionable abuse of power all of a sudden by the teams and players. I think it's not going to change that much for the worse and it's going to be significantly better. Why do we have a problem with cherry picking or goal sucking as it's called in some quarters? Oh, listen, it's not the game we grew up to love and what we know is it's the whole thing you were just saying earlier. It's not the game that we were told we're supposed to enjoy. Like what's more exciting then?

And, you know, a long, like, you know, that John Quinville goal that we saw in the Memorial Cup, Brandon, right? It goes through between his legs. You see that pass from Proveroff, from behind his net to the far blue line. Is John Quinville cherry picking? Yeah, what happened? It turned into the goal of the year. Yeah. Did anyone look at John Quinville?

Oh, look at that goal suck. Oh, he's hanging out by the blue line. Well, I mean, you're taking a risk, first of all, right? Or you're trying to draw an attacking player towards you. So it is actually a strategic move. Why is there such a negative connotation around, quote-unquote, cherry-picking as a pejorative? As opposed to, it's just another hockey tactic. I got no problem with it.

Yeah. No, I have no problem with it either. I don't know. It just has this weird connotation about, I don't know if it's like people just view it as cheating or something. We're trying to, you know, take the shortcut. You're not playing the right way. You need to earn the puck out of the zone. It needs to be a collaborative effort.

Well, I don't know. go get open, you know, make yourself available for a big long outlet pass. A, pretty smart to me. And two, from a fan's point of view, how exciting at watching those long bomb tape-to-tape passes that spring guys on breakaways. And I hate to break it to the people arguing this stuff, but just based on the way some teams fill out their defense groups, there's not that many defensemen in the NHL that can consistently make those long outlet passes. Just based on, trust me, I've been watching these playoffs, tracking all this stuff. and there's a lot of guys that struggle with, with menial kind of medium distance passes.

I don't think we're all of a sudden just going to keep seeing these wild Hail Mary plays consistently. Like, it's not as big a deal as people think. That's what makes Proverroff so fascinating. I can't wait to see him in the NHL to see if he can do that. Who's the best data from your research? Because from my observation, I was going to say, Victor Headman,

is the guy who consistently can pick these things up. And wasn't that part of the demise of Bob Hartley and Calgary? Is that he was married to that, play, even when it became obvious that that play wasn't the smartest for the Calgary Flames? Well, the weird thing with him doing that, it's like the best skill a coach can have is adapting to the players he has rather than trying to enforce his particular strategy, right? You've got to work with what you've got. And I always thought that easily, if you look at that roster, the best things the flames

had last year was their defensemen. So it seemed weird that you'd want to take the puck off of their stick. Like, if anything, I would have had guys like Brody and Jure. Dono and Hamilton trying to create that offense themselves and getting the puck out of the zone, carrying it out and trying to get into the neutral zone and into the offensive zone, and then operating from there rather than kind of getting it off their stick and letting the forwards operate. So I always thought that was a weird game plan he had, and I'm not surprised to see that it didn't wind up working out for it. I'm surprised that there aren't more outstanding long bomb pastures.

And maybe that's just going to become more of a biopra because it becomes more of a tactic in the NHL. to me it completely makes sense right well the thing with headman is watching all these other guys i've gotten so jaded just expecting that it's going to be an icing or someone's going to break it up or it's going to hop over a stick that when headman fling some of these passes i'm fully expecting it not to work out and then next thing you know it's just tape to tape to his uh to his forward stick and it's remarkable how consistently he's able to make that pass okay let's uh okay then let's get back into the hockey philosophy 101 uh undergrad program here when we're talking about talking about long bomb passes.

The tape-to-ta-ta-tape ones that we all love, good, hard along the ice, boom, there's that crack when it hits the blade. You know, it's one of the great hockey sounds. Crossbar is always the best hockey sound, but the crack of a blade when the puck hits it is a close second to me. We can see these things at the beginning of the period because the ice is pretty fresh. It's a fresh sheet of ice. In the last five minutes of every period, it's like skipping rocks. Like, you're not going to see that.

So, if we are concerned with the quality of... of play, if we're concerned with the quality of passing. Oh man, I'm going to get roasted for this one, but here goes. Instead of 3.20 minute periods, I have about 4, 15 minute quarters. So that last five minutes where the ice is chewed

is no longer a factor in the game. Well, I mean, if I know one thing about our listeners of this show, it's that they love all the basketball references we have. So I think bringing up the four quarters is music to their ears. I know, but you know what? I don't think Gary Betman will ever consider because he doesn't want to be, you know,

get that, you know, he's the basketball commissioner imposing basketball on the NHL. But I've thought that one, I've thought that one for a while. Like I look at the last five minutes of every period. And man, you have to turn into the short pass game. And it totally takes something, you know, it takes a very specific attack away from a team because you just can't chance me. making passes like that because the puck's going to be skipping all over the place.

And in a lot of these arenas where, let's face it, in every NHL town, the practice facility ice is better than the NHL ice because all the buildings are multi-purpose and not all the buildings are kept as cold as they probably should be. We've talked, I think a couple of podcasts ago we talked about the battle between the president and the general manager over the thermometer. And that's one of the biggest battles that any front office has. How cold do you want to make the rink? You know, the president wants to have a nice and, you know, comfortable for the

season ticket holders who spend a lot of money and the GM wants to have a good hard sheet of ice and wants it cold. And if people want to go to a hockey game, they should be expected to wear a coat. But maybe there is something with, you know, either you do something with the technology of the surface itself, whether that's, I don't know, coming up with a surface that is not ice, but you can use skates on it. Or you just get rid of that last five-minute dead time where the ice is all chewed up. Hear me out. You change the ice to hardwood. And you get rid of the skates and you have the guys wear shorts.

Right? It's a squeak to the feet. Yeah. Okay. I'm with the end. Yeah. And the net is not fastened to the ground. It's suspended up above.

Maybe, I don't know, pick a number, 10 feet. Well, it would finally justify some of this size fetish for some of these GMs having some of these tall guys that don't really do anything else. It's changing. That's changing. You know, it's so far. I was talking to someone about this. while ago, that if you go 15 years ago, okay, and you had a 6'5 hockey player and a 5-10 hockey player, okay, go 10, 10, 15 years ago. And you said, okay, one of these guys should be a goalie,

and one of these guys should be a defenseman. You'd say 10, 15 years ago, the 5-10 guy should be the goaltender, and the 6'5 guy should be the defenseman. Right. That's totally flipped now. there's no room for a 510 goal tenor. They all have to be 6'5. Six foot two is like the barrier to entry now in the NHL. And more so than ever, there are room. There is room for those small, like Joe

Hicketts, you know, Victoria Royals with the Detroit Redding. There is room for these types guys, these types of defensemen on your blue line now more so than ever. It just doesn't have to be, you know, that blue line with like, you know, Hatcher and Terry and like big huge dudes. There's a lot for smaller guys. It just is into the way

that our vision of what size fits which position has completely changed when it comes to goaltenders and defensemen. Right. Well, I think for defensemen, we're seeing a lot that, listen, like, all things being equal, of course, you're going to take the guy who's larger because he'll probably hold up better against injuries and all the wear and tear that comes with all the crashing along the boards and stuff. but the way you get into trouble is when you start kind of giving away all those other skills

at the expense of size. And we're seeing that in today's NHL, like, being able to move and skate and having an active stick is probably the most important skills a defenseman can have. Like a guy like Jared Spurgeon is one of my favorite defensemen to watch, and he's probably also what, the smallest defenseman in the league. But I saw him multiple times in the first round, just single-hand. end up Jamie Ben rushes just by being in the right place at the right time and kind of using his leverage to knock the puck off of his stick and thwarting him that way as opposed

to trying to physically intimidate him or crush him along the boards. And I enjoy watching that stuff. So it's really music to my ears when you say that this thought process is going around the league and hopefully we'll see more of them moving forward. What does the defenseman have to do in 2016? It's a question you ask yourself. You know, retrieve pucks and get them back up the ice as fast and efficiently as possible. Yep. So I know size is all, I mean, wingspan is one issue covering as much surface as you can. You know, strength along the boards.

I get all that. But, you know, give me a defense corps that can, A, retrieve and B, send it back the other way quick. And that's a recipe for success in any era of the NHL. Yeah. Hey, how excited are you about the San Jose Sharks being in the Stanley Goff Final? I love it so much from a TV point of view too selfishly A lot of great stories to tell

A lot of interesting personalities And a lot of What's the best way to describe it? A lot of personalities that aren't just necessarily The players as well Like the one great thing about San Jose sharks That we all love is like hey man It's like the thousand-year-old man Joe Thornton

Who's still doing and still looking for that In elusive Stanley Cup It's Chubbaca on the blue line line. It's Joe Pavelski, you know, the Wisconsin Badger, who's been one of the best kept secrets in the NHL outside of San Jose Sharks and hardcore hockey fans that nobody knows about. And the really distinct personalities. And I think you see the exact same thing behind the bench, too. And that's one of the things I don't think gets talked about enough is how there is such, because a lot of times coaches, you know, want people that are sort of similar to them in a lot

of way, want to surround themselves with, you know, people that are like them. But you look at someone like Peter DeBoer, who has a presence, can command a room, is generally very serious, he's a very thoughtful coach, but he has that coach thing. And what's that completely upset by? Steve Spot, who, I know San Jose's always had a good power play, but there's Steve Spot, he's in charge of the power play, and it's excellent once again, and he's almost, as far as a personality goes, a foil to Peter DeBore, and Bob Boogner is the same way. He's like the players coach. He's like not that far removed.

I mean, he's not that far removed from coaching the OHA. Like, you know, Taylor Hall and all those other Windsor Spitfire as we mentioned off the top of the podcast. So there's a really interesting dynamic that I think makes, makes players relate to their coach a lot better

than when you just have three copycat guys standing behind the bench with a furrowed brow yelling at you when you come back to the bench. Yeah, that was. Does that make sense? Do you think that means anything to a player? Because I think that it does.

It does. It does. Because especially you don't, the season is so long that you really need different personality types to bounce ideas off of. And just so you're not hearing the same message all the time, right? Like you need, otherwise it becomes so stale and you just start drowning it out. And that's when you get into trouble. So it's good.

There's, and I'm sure there's, you know, certain players on the team that certain coaches are better with. And then, you know, like the head coach and kind of divvy up the responsibility. and if you need to talk to a certain player and you know one of your assistants is really tight with him, you get him on the job and you can focus on other stuff. And I definitely agree that that's a big component of the job.

You know who's always known when the players are tuning him out and they need a new voice is Lindy Ruff. From one of them's whole, Lindy knows how to read the room better than anything. He knows when he's getting too annoying to the guys and they need to hear it from another voice. They need someone else, to do practice that day because he's starting to grate on them.

That's got to be tough too for a coach, right? Like that there's a, we talked about the ego of sort of imposing what, you know, how you want to play on players. There's also an ego in, you know, being able to, or lack of ego, rather, being able to say, you know what, I'm not the answer today, someone else is.

That's my coach. The thing with Lindy Ruff is, and maybe I just wasn't really paying enough attention, but I thought that towards the end of his tenure in Buffalo, he sort of struck me as this like, curmudgeon get off my lawn sort of guy and and it's it's amazing seeing him uh adapt and and readjust his style and dallas because by all accounts he's been just like very he's completely changes ways in the sense that he's letting guys especially on that team with so much offensive creativity

up front he's letting them do their thing and not trying to you know cramp their style too much and tell them to dump the puck in and chase after it rather than you know let he's letting them kind of explore and see what works and whatnot. And I know MJ was telling me that I think he was covering the stars during, like, before a hockey night and Canada game that he was doing early in the season on a Saturday. And he was saying that he went to one of their practices in one of their video sessions. And Ralph was basically, instead of getting on guys' cases when they messed up and telling them not to do that again and what they should do next time, he was, he was rewarding guys for making good creative plays and kind of doing positive reinforcement instead, which I thought was a pretty cool thing.

And I imagine that in NHL circles, it's a pretty rare thing amongst coaches. Yep. I mean, players, you know, fear the video review, right? Like, it's like, oh, great. This guy's going to yell at me now for 20 minutes. Great. You know, you really see that? Because on the one hand, you know, Lindy Ruff has a luxury of being able to drive a couple of Ferraris every day.

Right? And he's got Tyler Sagan and Jamie Ben and like, it's kind of a luxury when you're a coach. but don't you really see that in John Klingberg in that you don't get the sense that John Klingberg's being beaten down for the odd turnover. It's more like, you know what, you may turn the puck over

three times a game but you're going to create 10 events that are positive. And that puts us up plus seven on the game. We'll take the turnover. It means you're giving us this many other events the other way at the other end of the ice.

Yeah. Well, speaking of positive events, I'd say that this podcast, You and I just recorded was a pretty positive event. It's the highlight of my day. After this, I'm going to write notes for tomorrow and go to bed. Excellent. Because I'm born to be mild, as my wife always tells me.

Well, listen, man, I appreciate you taking the time. I know your schedule is pretty busy around this tournament, and I think we covered some pretty good stuff here. There's some interesting stuff, yeah. Let me turn the tables on you. And I swore, you know, the last time I was on with you that I wouldn't try to take over the podcast and play host. But I'm...

You say that every time. I know. I'm such a jackass. Okay. I want to ask you some. Yeah. How do you come by junior hockey? Because you've always struck me as someone that's been, I mean, first of all, you're a really thoughtful guy.

But, too, you've always struck me as someone that's been very thoughtful and really does enjoy junior hockey. My question is, though, when you watch junior hockey, do you watch it the same way that you're watching the NHL or do you watch it a different way? Oh, I'd say definitely a different way. I think a good way to put it is I watch it less critically just because I do have, I think we discussed this when we were previewing the world juniors back in December where it's like, I don't want to be that like creepy guy that is being way too hard on these teenage kids and, you know, taking this stuff too seriously. Like I understand that there's a lot at stake for some of these guys, especially that are top

NHL prospects and all this means a lot. I'm not trying to make light of it, but it's just like, it's, it really, is supposed to be fun and that's the way I view it and that I like it that way because sometimes you know covering the NHL is my job and and I it can definitely kind of lose sight of the fact that it is supposed to be fun and taking it for what it is as opposed to you know viewing everything from a nexus and nose perspective and taking it way too seriously and breaking every single play down as opposed to just kind of kicking back and watching the flow of the game and and taking mental notes that way so I like it it's it's a it's a nice refreshing exercise compared to

to my daily daily NHL viewing. Well, see, because I'm similar in that I look at a junior game two ways. One, you just look at it as a game

and the entertainment value contained in a game which when you consider, you know, there's like, what, 30 big turnover as a game when the NHL is about five,

which leads to inevitably more excitement and lead changes and, you know, interesting games. That's a lot of fun. And two, like you,

I never lose sight of the fact that leagues like the Western Hockey League, the OHL, and the QMJHL are still development leagues. That's one thing to look at that end product at the end of 60 minutes ago. Oh, well, that was an interesting game and all that. And I think you also look at it and you say, you know, you say, well, wow, this, you know, this defenseman, you know, so I started watching him in October and here we are in May and all a sudden he looks like a different guy.

Like, it's interesting to see the learning curve that a lot of guys go through and why they go through them. And, oh, this guy's on a gross spurt right now. and he's fighting his own body, and that's why his performance has changed. I mean, I remember Tyler Myers. You know, I remember talking to scouts about Tyler Myers and Kelowna,

and asking me the thought of the defenseman, and they said, well, it's so remarkable. I'll go and watch him sometimes, and he'll be dominant, and he'll be, you know, he'll be able to impose his will on a game. And other times,

it's like the first time he's ever held a hockey stick. And it's just because he's going through a growth spurt in his draft year, which has got to be such a frustrating You look at a player like Logan Stanley, okay? He's a defense for the Windsor Spitfires. He's six foot, I think seven, right? And he's like grown all.

And sometimes I watch the Spitfires, and man, is he out to lunch? And other times, I'm like, oh my God, it's Minichara. This is a freak. Like, so I always try to never lose sight that, you know, this is a time in these young athletes' lives where things are changing for them mentally and things are changing for them physically as well, which is why it's, you know, such a freak to see someone have, you know, as close to a perfect season from bell to bell when there's all these different changes happening within your own body from, you know, from training camp in

September until the end of it all in May. Yeah, but the interesting thing sort of spinning off on that is, is we can lose sight of that in the sense that there is that period. And some guys, it's, it's a lot faster for them. And they, you know, they hold their own instantly. But then there's other guys that it takes them a bit longer and maybe they'll fall in drafts or they won't be thought of as highly, but then a few years later, once they finally put it all together, all of a sudden, we were like, oh, we didn't see this coming at all, and we probably should have if we just kind of undertaking it for what it was worth and given them the time that they deserve to fully grow into their frames, both mentally and physically.

Yeah, right, the Brendan Gallagher fifth round phenomenon. How did he slip to the fifth round, you know? Like, there's, they're just going to be those guys. You're right, because it would be lovely for us to say, yeah, everyone's going to, you know, peak physically and peak emotionally in their draft year. But the reality is there's no chance that that's going to happen, not a prayer. Which is why I always, I know it's fun to go back and redo drafts, but it really is unfair to the players themselves and to the scouts that scout these kids.

Yeah, I mean, I'm 24 years old and I think I'm still growing both mentally and physically. I'll almost double that and I'm probably half maturity that you have. So I'll get up eventually, Dimitri. Jeff, man. Where can people find you on Twitter? And when are you, when's the broadcast starting on Friday? Friday, it is a 6 o'clock mountain, so that's 8 Eastern. Start, it is the host Red Deer Rebels,

basing off against a Ruan Naranda Huskies, the top team in the CHL by season's end. Really good, you know, offensive team. They probably have the best defensive core of anyone in the CHL, Philip Myers and Jeremy Lozahn, Nicholas Breyard. the overage defenseman. It really is spectacular. And the winner of that game gets the right to do what on Sunday, Dimitri? Try and keep it within five goals against the London Knights. Just trying to embarrass yourselves out there, boys. Go get them.

It'll be fun. I mean, even if the game gets out of hand, just watching the pure skill from the London Knights will probably be a selling point enough just by itself. Yeah, I think there's going to be a lot of guys from that 2005 London Knights team there as well. I was talking at dinner. I think there's some talk like the Corey Perrys of the world maybe popping by for the game. So that'll be excited to see some.

Because the similarities between that team and the team that you have now are pretty staggering. And we always thought that that, you know, because we focus on that winning streak that London was on, or sorry,

undefeated streak. But, you know, you could make the argument that this year's edition of the London Knights may be the best edition of the London Knights we've ever seen.

They're that good. Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. All right, man. We'll get you back on the PEDYOCAST. Love it. Thanks for having me on, Dimitri, as always.

The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud. At soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.