The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 89: Making The Penguins Great Again

Episode Date: May 27, 2016

Chris Johnston joins the show to discuss the dire situation in Vancouver following another puzzling move by the Canucks, how the Penguins managed to punch their ticket to the Stanley Cup Final, where the Lightning go from here. Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Stitcher and can also be streamed right here on the website. Make sure to not only subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, but also take a minute to leave a glowing review. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Demetri Philpovich. And joining me is our good buddy, Chris Johnson. what's going on man not too much demetri still recovering from uh that game seven last night in pittsburgh it was quite a night there yeah it was you were there you were there alive in the building and we were we were planning on recording last night but it ran a bit late and we decided to get a good night's sleep or i guess i got a good night sleep you didn't sleep much since you were traveling and then we'll uh we're gonna pick up where we left off now yeah the emotions are still pretty fresh so i think uh we can still do it justice you never take into account

when you have like an 815 start Eastern and then handshakes and interviews and trophy presentation, it's a late night after those games. It is, yeah. Yeah, that series really just featured everything. And I guess when it goes a distance like that for seven games, it gives it an opportunity to. But before we get into unpacking the series in its entirety, I wanted to quickly get into the Panthers Canucks trade from the other night that happened just because you were the person that I think you, is it fair to say, broke it? Like, you were the first person that kind of at least dropped the hint that there was going to be a trade involving

mechanical and going to Florida, I feel like. That's, I actually honestly don't know. It's one of those chaotic nights where when you're just scramed one for info, and I'm not sure if anyone else was a bit ahead or behind it. I don't know if it matters, but certainly, I think I was on top of what was going on there anyway.

Hey, there's no need to be that humble, okay? You can admit you're keeping score, Chris. It's okay. But in that case, I really, I really wasn't. I was actually out to dinner in Pittsburgh. with some colleagues and waiting for the Western Conference final game six and started to get wind of stuff and it was just chaos. So I'm not even being honest in this case. I'm just not sure if someone else was ahead of me or not. Okay. Well, from the Panthers perspective, the trade

obviously makes a lot of sense. And I think it's an objective opinion to say they really just kind of, you know, suckered them into this. And that part seems a bit obvious to me. But I think that from the Canucks perspective, it's weird. I want you to, I want you to, I want to, I want to, want you to explain what's going on with this team right now to me because I live in Vancouver, so people just assume that I have this sort of insider's perspective on this, but I don't really. I don't affiliate myself with a team in any way. And just from the outside looking at it, it seems like a team that should be rebuilding that's clearly not anywhere near being competitive, yet they keep going for these sort of quick fix

patchwork moves and trading away a lot of picks in the meantime, which is very weird since Jim Benning is a scout at heart. Well, and it's not just trading white picks. I mean, they're trading white prospects too. And, you know, young players, a 19-year-old forward. And I realize Eric Branson isn't, you know, a gray beard at 24. But I think it's because there isn't that full commitment to the rebuild that you see moves like this one.

And, you know, on some level, I can understand Vancouver's thought process that they want to improve their defense, especially on the right side. And this isn't the kind of year and free agency where you can achieve that. So the trade market was going to be that route. But, you know, to make the deal that they made is, you know, it's a bit of a head scratcher. You know, it seems like it's one step forward and two steps back, you know, when you make a trade like this. And you really, for me, I understand they have some core members of this team that are veteran players. But, you know, at some point you've got to get younger and maybe even get worse.

And, you know, there just isn't a commitment to a big plan here that I can see. Yeah, and then obviously right after that, Benning does this interview where he justifies it by describing analytics as vitamins that aren't necessarily vital to your everyday plans and then cites that the Boston Bruins won the Stanley Cup a handful of years back without ever really using them. So, no, it's people are handling all of this stuff very well here in Vancouver. I was going to say, I figured that those comments would have caught your attention for sure. and you know, it feels a bit like the wrong side of history. I mean, it's not, I just feel like this isn't even a debate anymore. I mean, there's not any team that completely ignores analytics. I don't believe, and maybe Vancouver is the one.

But I mean, this isn't a, it's not really a debate anymore to me, you know. And it's a strange situation. And I just can't escape the feeling it's not going to end well because, you know, you have to be honest with yourself as an organization. And it just feels like they're going to, they're kind of half pregnant or just not fully committed to one plan or another. Well, it reminds me a little bit of what happened in Toronto just in the sense that I think that things are going to get really bad just to they continue on this path because they still

have some top end players that are aging but are keeping them at least semi-competent. But if those guys drop off a bit, it's going to get really ugly. and they're trading away all these prospects and picks, so it's not necessarily like they're rebuilding this thing with the future in mind, as you said. So I think a few years from now, whether it's the ownership or someone else in that front office, is going to take a look around and realize just how barren the landscape is,

and they're probably going to be pushed into a very analytics-heavy sort of infrastructure just because it's going to be so different from the way they've been operating right now. Well, and then the biggest picture, they're going to have to contemplate some rebuild eventually. So even if it's not being done now, well, you spin your wheels for a couple years and then you started. I mean, that actually is a little bit what went on in Toronto is, you know, they're finally sort of doing now what, you know,

I think a lot of fans wanted to see them do three or four years ago. And, you know, there's a whole bunch of things that we, you know, not to look so back in history. But I just feel like you can't escape it forever. And very few teams, I think almost none now in the salary cap era. ever reach prominence without having a period where they draft really high and get some impact players. And then obviously there's a lot more to do beyond that to have the ultimate success. But there's just not a team that can, in my eyes, do it without top two or three or four picks and usually a couple of them.

And obviously, I guess the lottery allows you to move up to those positions even without finishing 30th or 29th. But, you know, I just feel like Vancouver's going to get there eventually and probably the sooner the better. Yeah, well, the real bummer for me is just looking at the writing on the wall for the Siddines in the sense that I still think they're very useful contributors. They're obviously not the sort of driving for star players that they once were during their prime. But they each have two years left at 7 million on their cap hit. And it seems highly unlikely that even if they wanted to get moved. moved and the Canucks wanted to move them that they could, especially since like, there's just not really many teams out there that could bring both guys on at the same time with those cap hits.

So it looks like they're going to be stuck here in Vancouver and it doesn't look like there's going to be any sustained playoff runs in that near future. So it's always kind of a bummer when you see these former greats just kind of stuck playing out the string as opposed to getting a few more kicks of the can. Right. And I find it especially so. case. I mean, they're unique individuals, obviously, in the fact that their twin brothers have spent a whole career playing together. But, you know, for, you know, not that far removed from

realistically being a Stanley Cup team to come as close as they did and not, you know, be able to get over the hump and certainly not placing that on their shoulders. But I'm just saying that that I just feel like these two guys, if you can say deserved it, really deserved it. And now you're right. The future doesn't look so, so good for, you know, what they're going to be around while they can still make an impact on the game. And, you know, you do wonder if they would ever contemplate moving on. I mean, you never say never in this sport, but I think it'd be, I think you're right, it would be difficult.

Maybe if they play out these contracts, they might sign somewhere else at a lower cap number and kind of go as a package and take a final run at it. But, you know, kind of the twilight of their careers, you know, it's not looking too good as we sit here today. No, it's not. Okay, let's get to this Easter conference final, because there really was a doozy and we have so much of disgust. I want to start with the lightning because I feel like, especially on this show,

I've discussed them less. I've had Penguins beat redders on and stuff like that. And we'll have a chance to talk about them a lot in previewing the cup finals. So I think the first natural question for me to start with is Jonathan Druand, who was just electric all postseason and really was a nightmare for whichever team they were playing around the neutral zone and getting into the offensive zone where he showed some of that skill that we'd heard about that he'd been displaying in Halifax during his um during his cue career and then early on the flashes we saw with the lightning

where he's such a great playmaker and he's so dynamic and and i guess just watching that i couldn't help but wonder how close were the lightning really to to trading him in season do you have any feel for that my sense is they they they weren't that close ultimately i mean they obviously wanted to and there were a lot of discussions in that vein but you know from the best i can get around that situation is that they just they knew what they had in him in a lot of ways at least steve isman and and julian breezeblah and then the members of front office did and they they didn't ever get an offer that you know i think was was enough to make it you know to make them have to sit and you know hang up the phone and have a real serious do we do this conversation and

And, you know, I'll give them credit, you know, frankly, for not for not rushing into it or rushing through it because, you know, it was not an easy situation for anyone the way everything played out so publicly. And, you know, if you remember around that time, around the trade deadline, they weren't comfortably in the playoffs. They were, you know, kind of hovering in and out at times. And, you know, it took some sort of fortitude, I think, for them to hold on to them to give them another chance. Maybe a chance that wouldn't have even come at the end of this season if Stephen Stamcoast didn't have his brother. blood clot issue and then you see the benefit of it because as well as he played in the playoffs, I have to be honest. I think he's a lightning now. I don't, you know, I know that Alan Walsh's agent and Iisman, obviously, we're only 12 hours after the teams been eliminated. I don't think

they've had the full discussions yet, but, you know, I fully expect him just to be a part of this team now. Well, and if they had to trade them, man, they'd be full of regret. Yeah. Well, it makes sense just from this perspective that I think his, from his side, the beef was that he felt like he wasn't getting the opportunity, both in terms of where he was playing in the lineup and sort of being featured. And just based on how he played in this postseason, it seems like the two parties really shouldn't have an issue in figuring out how to give him the right minutes and linemates moving forward based on just how he looked in the playoffs. Well, yeah, now there's no debate about it even. I mean, he's their guy. And, you know, whether Stamco's back, like, you know, it doesn't

even matter what happens with their other moves. I mean, he's clearly a top line player for them at this point. I mean, even in game seven, I mean, Tampa didn't produce a whole lot in that game, but, you know, in addition to the fact, he scored the goal. He was by far their most dangerous player. And it had a few rushes in the third period where, you know, he carried the puck into the zone and, you know, really sort of unsettled what Pittsburgh was trying to do to lock it down. And, you know, I think that that he's by far the biggest positive to come out of the playoffs. You know, I've found, you know, sometimes this is sort of an interpersonal thing, but sometimes when you go through hard times with people,

you come out on the other side closer and having built a new trust. And, you know, that's really my sense about the situation. I mean, there was probably all kinds of things we could point to in hindsight that that shouldn't have happened. But, you know, I give both sides credit for getting through it. And, you know, really, Jonathan Drew Ann, even if he authored some of the – Stephen Stamco said to me during the playoffs, he said, it's probably going to end up being the best worst mistake he made in his life. And I thought that was a good way of putting it because it probably shouldn't have played out the way it did,

but I'll give that kid a lot of credit for coming back and playing so well in the face of so much scrutiny and everything that went on with them. Yeah. For sure. So it seems like you're mentioning the offers they were getting and that none of them were, you know, realistic to pull the trigger on, but it seems like the one that gained the most traction where the Cody Cici rumors with Ottawa and whether that was ever really a discussion. It doesn't seem to really pass the sniff test based on the showings Cody Cici has had so far in his career, but it is a good transition point because I do think that looking at this Tampa Bay roster, which has been pretty expertly crafted by Steve Eisenman and his staff, the one blind spot I noticed

looking at this depth chart is they seem to have a little bit of an issue properly evaluating defenseman, I feel like. Is that a fair characterization? I could see how you would get there. I mean, it's one of the weaknesses of the team, obviously. And I think another team that was at least in there to some degree was Anaheim on Jonathan Duren. I believe there was a number of discussions and possibly Sammy Vottenan's name being part of that, a player that's a restricted for agent this summer. And with Anaheim having a few different guys in that position, there could have been a fit,

but just didn't. I don't think it got to the point where even on the duck side, they were sure they wanted to make that move at this point. Because that's sort of my point. Everyone knew Duran was going to be something. I'm not sure that even his biggest supporter thought he would be that impactful so quickly after going through all this and missing, you know, a month of the season where he didn't play anywhere.

And, you know, I think having seen what we see now, it might have been a smart move for someone to pull the trigger. But, yeah, to get back to the lightning, the blue line is definitely. an area where they're going to have to get creative. I mean, Matt Carl was one of their highest paid players and was a scratch numerous times in the regular season. He did play in the playoffs and, you know, isn't particularly effective. They extended Braden Coburn this year late in the season to a three-year deal, which might have surprised some.

And, you know, really, when he saw Anton Strallman get injured, you know, and even though he returned, I don't think he was at 100%. And it just sort of exposed that they didn't have enough behind them to keep going. And you're right. I think that this is probably the number one priority once they sort out their cap situation. I mean, it's all tied together. But how they can improve that blue line because it kind of broke down, at least in my eyes, in this series against Pittsburgh. Well, there is a little bit of nitpicking to this in the sense that they were,

that's some perspective. They were a few goals away from making their second straights down the cup final. So these are good, good. problems to have, but when you get... Even the best team in the league now has problems. I mean, there's just a reality. There's no team that's a true, true powerhouse, I don't think in a league anymore. Well, when you get, when you get to this stature and you get, you put your franchise name

into this discussion amongst the league's truly elite, you really need to sort of get nitpicky here. And I do think that each team has sort of a blind spot, whether it's a certain player type or a certain position that they seem to struggle with properly. They have trends and characteristics they look for, and I think that it's pretty clear the lightning seem to favor tall defensemen based on some of the heights these guys have. But it's just like you look, and they have 13.8 million in a cap tied up to Carl Garrison and Cobra next year. And I don't think any of those three guys are necessarily game changers for them. And then they were playing a guy like Andrei Schuster over and Akita Nesterov during this Eastern Conference final.

And I don't think Nesterov is necessarily the greatest player in the world. But I do, I'm very skeptical that André Schuster really does anything except for being tall, which I'm not sure really helps in hockey. I mean, he could grab some rebounds for either the Warriors or the, or the Thunder in the basketball playoffs, but I don't know what he really brings to the lightning. And then it took them forever to start playing Slater Kukukuk, who I actually like, and they probably like based on the fact that they reached from in the draft a few years ago. But I don't know, it's, it's tough to separate whether this is a Steve Eisenman thing or

someone else in that front office or whether it's John. Cooper's preferences because he also seems to like playing this seven-man defense core, which drives me nuts for whatever reason. So I don't know, it's tough to separate who's to blame here and what's really going on. But I do think that they should probably go back to the drawing board on what they're looking for in their defensemen. Well, so what drives you nuts about the seven seven D man rotation? John absolutely loves it. I got to be honest with you. It's not, it's not like a rational X's an O's thing or anything like that. It, it, this is going to, this is going to be like the nerdiest thing that I've ever said on the show. But when I'm when I'm tracking these games,

it really just kind of messes up my spreadsheet. And I got to got to adjust for the seventh guy being in there. I'm so used to the six guys for each team. So it's a it's a personal thing that just kind of grinds my gears for no, it's not John Cooper's fault at all by any means. Well, it's funny because the way when I'm covering a game, I keep certain notes and I'm always trying to track which lines are seem to be matched or which D-Men. And it complicates my note-taking as well. because it's not neat patterns. And part of me thinks that that's sort of the point. But part of me thinks that that's what John likes about it

is because the other coach, presumably, is having some of the same frustrations just built in and not knowing exactly what he's going to do with his lines that way. Yeah, but I mean, they were playing guys, like, obviously very minimal exposure, but like Luke Witkowski and Matt Teramina. And, yeah, I think they could, listen, it's a great team,

and they have so much talent all throughout the lineup. but I think that if they kind of recalibrate what they're looking for in defensemen, it could go a long way for them moving forward. Right. And, you know, they have a great defenseman and Victor Headman. And I think, obviously, the healthy Anton Stroman, even where he's at his career, is very effective. So they've got a good place to start from.

They don't have to mess around with either of those two. But, you know, it's going to be, I think they're the most intriguing team entering the offseason just because, A, they're still going to be good. next year. There's no way that I can conceive of that they're not going to be kind of in the mix. It doesn't mean they're guaranteed to be the top team in the East, but they'll be among the top, but they're going to have some hard decisions, and it's going to look different. And I think that's actually kind of the point. One thing Chicago's done well, as we've talked to it over the years, is they've found ways to still be effective with doing it differently and

different personnel. And, you know, I just think with the CAP situation that it is an opportunity actually for the lightning not to rest on the Royals because they don't have that sort of benefit and they're going to get a chance to remake this team a little bit at least around the margins and it could make a big difference come next season. Yep, for sure.

Hey, were you surprised to see Stamco's playing game seven? Not really. I had a feeling it was coming and the biggest thing is it was right in his window of recovery anyway. You know, I don't, you know, in the chaos of the post-game and with the team losing.

I never got a full explanation of the process they went through here in the last couple days to arrive at that. But, you know, I had the sense he could have played maybe even a little sooner in this series, but was trying to err on the side of caution and, you know, being sure. But, you know, I can't say I was overly surprised just with how active he was in their skates, how, you know, where his fitness was at, that he would give it a shot in that situation and look he had like a partial breakway there that that snuck through Matt Murray's arm and wide that you know you want you want him to have that shot I mean if you're the lightning that's

that was you start him just to have that one opportunity because you know more often than not he might score there and change that game yeah yeah I just I was discussing this with you uh privately but I I've suffered blood clots myself in my personal life years ago and I was just I was very wary of just the health implications. And obviously, if he was playing, it must have meant that he'd been cleared and gotten, gotten some good opinions on the fact that they're at least limiting risk moving forward. But just based on what he had to lose with his, this is going to be the biggest summer of his life, pretty much.

And he's with 26 years old, there's still so much playing time left in his career that it seemed like a very short-sighted move to rush it. But I guess if he'd been clear, then there's nothing really else to it. Well, that's the thing. I'm just not convinced it was rush. It's just, it's going to have that appearance, of course. I mean, usually when you see a guy make a return in a game seven, you assume he's only playing because of the circumstance and that he's not at 100%. But, you know, the bit I know, Stephen Stamco's just such a sort of intelligent young guy with a lot of perspective. And, you know, he's got one of the best agents in the game and Donn Me. And I just can't imagine. And even Steve Isamon is, you know, really someone who can, I think, remove him. from the moment. I think that there was actually a lot of clear-headed thinking on this one, and that, you know, had it been someone else, they might have played sooner in the series than game seven. I think he, I got the sense he had at least the clearance to be able to do that earlier on. And, you know, he waited to see if the team could get to the cup final without

them and give them, you know, even extra time built in. But I don't feel that this move was rushed, even though, you know, I can understand why that feeling might be out there, just looking at the timing of it. Okay. I think that's enough on Stamco's because I get this odd feeling that we'll discuss him more in the coming weeks and months.

Probably as soon as next week, two weeks from now. Yeah. All right, from the penguin side, I think the key takeaway here is just how good they really looked all series. I mean, the puck possession game is, it was a landslide.

Really, it was, I'm looking at the numbers here, and Vasselowski faced 259 shots in seven games, which equates to run. roughly 37 a game and he didn't even really play in the first, what, 13 or so minutes in game one. So it's, it's remarkable how much they were just peppering him all series long and they control 59% of the shots at 5-1-5 and, and really the expected goals for them were it looks like 1810 in their favor, but it was actually 16-16. It was even at 5-1-5, which is a testament to both some of the questionable goaltending they got a little bit in certain parts of the series and just how

remarkable Vaselowski was. Right. And, you know, heading into, look at that third period. Like, Tampa could have won that game and could have won that series, obviously, as a result. And it would have felt for sure in the Pittsburgh locker room unjust. I mean, they truly believe they were the better team. And, you know, they showed it in the way they played. And, you know, what a remarkable story. You know, I can't help but think back, you know, to the start of the year and where they were.

And in December, I mean, they were producing no offense. there was very little hint of this to come at that point. And, you know, but, you know, between December 12th when Mike Sullivan was hired in May 26th, when they won the Prince of Wales trophy, I mean, they, in that period of time, they proved without, you know, reasonable doubt, at least to me, that they are the class of the Eastern Conference. And, you know, they just play such a delightful brand of hockey to watch, you know, it's, for me, it's kind of nice to see. I don't have certainly any rooting interest in this, but teams that play that way,

just I admire them. They're trying to score goals. They're, you know, Mike Sullivan, it's not exactly a rocket science take, but sometimes in hockey it doesn't happen. He went there and he looked at what he had and said, we've got to let these guys play. You know, the way we're going to win is by allowing them to use their talents. And, you know, it's going to be a fascinating cup final now.

And Pittsburgh is, you know, they're feeling pretty good. There's not, I've been around a lot of teams. That was an emotional, emotional locker room last night after the game. I mean, it was crazy, actually. It was quite something. It was seven years of pent up frustration for the guys that have been around, and then you had a whole other subset of characters of Phil Kessels and Carl Haglens and Nick Beninos and guys that have come in

and even some of the younger guys like Brian Rust and Matt Murray who are experiencing for a first time. And, you know, they believe they're going to win the Stanley Cup. And, you know, they certainly played well enough so far to show that they at least have a good shot at it. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And listen, I just shudder to thinking about the narrative about Crosby and his leadership and all this jazz that we like to seemingly circle back to every postseason with these ridiculous talking points and false bravado.

If they hadn't won, I can't even imagine what some of the leads in some of these stories would have been. This is a particularly sore point with me. Like, it really is. I just wish, I feel like Sydney's done enough. And I'm not saying he's without the ability to question, you know, his performance on a game-by-game basis or whatever. But it becomes in any point if he doesn't, you know, has maybe a touch of bad luck or maybe he isn't even playing that great. It becomes sort of like a grander discussion around him. And I just don't understand it.

I mean, he's the top scoring player in playoffs and regular season since he entered the NHL. He's won everywhere and everything. and he's still really, really, really, really good, arguably still potentially the best player on Earth at this moment. So just because he doesn't wear a cape and score three goals every game, I just wish some of the, you know, particularly my colleagues in Pittsburgh, you know, many of whom I'm friends with, but like the stuff they were writing is insane to me.

I mean, I'm not sure what else there is to say about it, but I just feel that just because he doesn't score, that we don't have to have this referendum on how great. he is or his legacy or this or that. I mean, to me, all those things are already taken care of. And, and, you know, this has been a special season for him. This is, you know, I'll say this, it's as calm as I've kind of seen Sydney. And, you know, I've been covering him his whole career in the NHL.

And, you know, there's just, I don't know, I feel like he's in a very good place right now. And I think he's playing well. And he's not going to win this, likely the playoff scoring title or anything. But, you know, he's had a great playoffs. And I just wish we could cool it with the hot takes here. every time, you know, if Pittsburgh goes down two nothing in the Stanley Cup, it doesn't mean that he's a garbage leader or whatever else

people want to write. Yeah, well, I mean, there's two ways to look at it moving forward. Either it's great that you know, a Crosby or a Kessel or a Joe Thornton or Marlow are going to win the Stanley Cup for sure, but then on the other end of the spectrum, the guys that don't win it are probably going to be painted as some sort of chokers.

So it's an endless cycle, really. I mean, just looking at looking at the totals from the series, He's like, Crosby played perfectly fine. He put a lot of shots on that. I think people sometimes have a difficult time reconciling the fact that sometimes shots just don't go in for whatever reason, and it's not necessarily a referendum on some sort of poor player or anything like that. Like, it's a numbers game, and you go through stretches where sometimes you shoot 25%, and sometimes you shoot 5%. It happens all the time, and there's guys in each postseason that you can pick on like that,

but it just seems so unfair to me. Well, and the other thing about it is like for the, it's always coming from people who love hockey. I mean, it's, it's people, but I wish that they would just step back a bit because the point is, is like there's these things that get repeated constantly. Like you can't win without your best players being your best players or they got to carry you. But it's, it's just inaccurate. I mean, look at Chicago's three cups. They had one in 2013 where John and Taves, I believe, had three goals and 14 points. And they had another where he led the playoffs and scoring and won the Konsmite trophy.

I mean, these are teams still. at the end of the day. And, you know, there are series where sometimes your top players cancel out the other team's top players, and it's guys like Brian Bickle, who I believe is one of the guys who put up a lot of points in that 13 run for the Blackhawks who shine through. And we've seen numerous examples with the Penguins, even Brian Rust here late in the third round. But, you know, the Kessel's been so good for them. Matt Cullen earlier in the playoffs was providing some sort of unexpected offense. And, you know, what's great about the Penguins is that they're a great team.

and they have great top-end players, but they actually have built a great team here, and they've got a great team environment, and that's reflective too on leadership, because I think actually where they've gotten to is that Crosby and Malkin and the rest, that there's no level of, I don't think that they're worried about their points, actually.

And I think that that's to their credit, and that's not to say that they don't have to still produce somewhat for the team to have success, but it's just that there's so many of you more, layers to this that get ignored when someone looks down at the game log and goes, oh, three games without a goal. Oh, this is an easy lead. Here we go.

You know, and it's just, I don't know. I love the sport, and I just think that someone like Sydney doesn't actually get a ton of respect, much like Joe Thornton, you know, throughout his career, and it's changing a bit here in these playoffs. And, you know, it's not just him, but it kind of drives me nuts that we don't have deeper discussions on these sort of topics in the sort of day-to-day media. Yeah. you're right about this Penguins team. It is pretty cool just based on the fact that

listen, early in this year, it still looked like their depth was going to be a major issue. And they've gotten great contributions from a few trades they've made and from guys that started the year in the ACHL that I'd quite frankly never heard of before. So it's, it's remarkable. And it's my job to know these guys. But I'd like to think it's also my job as well. I didn't know Connor Shiri was until late in the season. Yeah. And Kunakle and Rust and all these guys that are. are playing really well.

And then you look at, like I watch Nick Benino here in Vancouver. I would never have thought that he'd have this sort of an impact. And they got Carl Hagelin midseason. And it's all these guys that have come together. And it's such a, it's a storyline that we've discussed many times. But it is remarkable. And it's worth just talking about again how different this team is from the ones years past, both from the speed perspective and from the not needing to necessarily

be overly reliant on just those two guys up front. Right. You know, they basically just have all the same stars and everything else is different around them, more or less. And, you know, it's a testament. I mean, I think that there's a level, even Jim Rutherford said, there's a level of luck involved. I mean, you make these moves, you know, with certain ideals in mind,

but it doesn't always come together quite the way it has for Pittsburgh. But it's been impressive. I mean, as we look ahead now, I'm curious to see how it's going to turn out for them on their blue line. And I think that that Trevor Daly injury, you know, is going to be difficult to patch up over a long period. They obviously won a couple games over Tampa to survive the Eastern Conference final. But, you know, Brian Dumlin actually filled in pretty good. I thought he looked pretty good in the last couple games.

But, you know, their depth on the blue line, I think, is going to be, you know, one of the storylines here as we see them, you know, match up with the sharks. Because, you know, that was a big loss. Daley was one of the other guys that really helped propel their season in a different direction. And he was acquired just two days after. Mike Sullivan was hired in mid-December. Yeah. No, the blue line behind Latang is very suspect at best. And I imagine that he's going to be playing.

You're going to see those minute totals into the 30s, regardless of whether the game goes to overtime or not. Yeah, he's in the Dunkin-Kee's role now. Just try and just tape them together and hope he can carry on his back. Mm-hmm. And one final thing. I think we'd remiss if we didn't point out, and uh,

if Gany Malkins, uh, guarantee after game five that they'd come back to Pittsburgh and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, we've, we've, we've seen a lot of guys over the years say that. And then if it doesn't come true,

no one ever really winds up discussing it again. It's true, but this is what I'll say about that one. And because I saw some of my colleagues sort of, it's easy to dismiss it, but, Fgeny Malkin, I was there,

they did this availability right at there's this airport hangar in suburban Pittsburgh, like literally right before they got on their charter flight and he no one was fishing at all if the line of questioning was not even like do you believe you can get back to pittsburgh or something no one was fishing at all and he kept throwing out all these guarantees he said my lion's going to score next game you know we're going to get it back to pittsburg like it there was a tone there and you know some of it you know his english is is good but you know he's still some of it could be lost somewhat i think i think you knows exactly what he's doing but what i mean is

there was a defiance to the way he was talking. And it's not going to go down like the MESSIA guarantee most likely or anything like that. But it was a guarantee. And it was a statement about where the penguin's mindset was at getting on that plane. Because remember they lost game five in disheartening fashion, blowing the lead on home ice and then losing quick into overtime when that goal that went off Tyler Johnson's backside. And it didn't feel good in that moment, obviously, to blow a game like that and to have to head down. to Tampa and, you know, with no room for error.

And I'll give him Gennie Malkin credit to that he came out and said that. And you're right. It would have just fallen by the wayside. But, you know, there's some room in the playoffs for narratives when they're this sort of thing. And, you know, I think that that was pretty neat. And if the Penguins go on and win the cup, I know at least there'll be a segment of their fan base that remembers that is one of the moments of the playoffs that, you know, was that kind of told them that everything was going to be okay for their team.

Yeah. No, if Gany Malkin is a total badass. and I love him. If he were on pretty much any other team, I feel like, we'd be giving him so much more love and so much more attention. Like, just it makes sense that Crosby soaks up most of the headlines and most of the discussion, but just everything about him from his on-ice abilities to his character is just, I think he might be one of my favorite players in the league.

Well, and he's very popular in the Penguin's dressing room, too. And, you know, the one thing, the other part of it, too, is the next day we're down in Tampa, and a whole bunch of his teammates were like, yeah, I love that he said that. Like, you know, you got to talk about something during the playoffs. I saw, you know, some of Ken Hitchcock's comments are in the Western Conference final. But, you know, it's a great time of year, but it's kind of a monotonous grind at times when you're on the ground floor of it. And there's lots of off days, and the questions kind of go back to the same thing. And I'll even give them props from the media standpoint.

They gave us something else to talk about. And, you know, we've got to have fun with it, too. It's still just sports at the end of the day. Yeah. Hey, before we get you out of here, do you have, have you thought about the cup final yet, and do you have a pick you, do you like to go on the record with? Not yet. And it's not even taking the fifth. It's just, I haven't put enough thought into it, and I don't want to throw something out. And, you know, I'm inclined to say Pittsburgh, but I have to remove myself from potential Stockholm syndrome after covering them for three rounds here and really liking what they're doing and look a little closer at the sharks. And, you know, obviously I've been watching their games. But, you know, kind of see how I think the matchups will play out before I make a pick. But it does seem to me on the surface that it's going to be another long series, six or seven games. And I just hope it's fun.

I really enjoyed that Eastern Commerce final. I thought it was compelling and a lot of good hockey played. And it was just a lot of fun. You know, not every series has that kind of spirit to it. And I'll share a quick anecdote if I can. I just thought of it. So last night after the game, I walk in the Penguins' Room, Phil Kessel's over in the corner

and he's just talking to one radio person and I just walked up and he was sort of mid monotonous answer and he looked up at me and I'm not sure if I can swear on this so I'll go for it. He just looked up to me and he goes fuck like it's because

I think he saw me and then obviously I covered him in Toronto and it was just such an awesome moment like because he realized that I realized like how did he get here you know and and there was just that kind of energy around us series. And I have to think with the sharks, with the weight that they've been through, there's going to be that same feeling. Like, there's so many guys here that know it's probably their

one shot at it. I mean, we never know. I don't think a lot of people had the sharks picked to get this far. And so maybe they could do it again if it doesn't work out for them this spring. But, you know, I love that about the playoffs. It's cool seeing these guys grind away for years and finally get to their moment where they can lift that trophy and cry on national TV. So it's going to be a fun series. that much I'm pretty assured of. Yeah, no, it's a really cathartic moment every year. So I'm looking forward to it, man. It's going to be a fun series.

We're blessed with a lot of stories, and I think the play is going to be incredibly high level. And people, speaking of a high level, people can follow your work at sportsend.ca and follow you on Twitter at Reporter Chris, where you'll be covering the series from start to finish, I'm sure. I am, and you're very kind with your praise there. It's week six for me on the road, too, much like the players.

So this is where you've got to dig deep. But, you know, the cup final is special. You know, it's just cool seeing guys live out their dreams. And they all get emotional and sentimental as it gets closer to being handed out. Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to it, man. Let's get you back on sometime next week to break it down when the action actually starts. Hopefully from an arena with pucks bouncing in the background,

rather than my nephew crying if anyone can hear him in the background. Excellent. All right, man. Enjoy your few days off here, and we'll talk soon. Thanks, Dimitri. The Hockey P.DOcast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypediocast.