The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 93: A Need For Speed

Episode Date: June 9, 2016

Mike Johnson joins the show to discuss how the unique pace the Penguins are playing with has caused the Sharks all sorts of problems, what he'd say to his players to keep them consistently playing the same way regardless of the score, and just how much of a home ice advantage a potential team located in Las Vegas will have. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 0:20 Seeing Playoff Beards in the flesh 1:45 Skating fast vs. Playing fast 8:00 Combatting Score Effects 14:00 Redefining 'Stay-at-Home' Defensemen 20:30 Adjustments for the Sharks 26:00 Conn Smythe Candidates 31:00 A Las Vegas team's home ice advantage Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Stitcher and can also be streamed right here on the website. Make sure subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, and also take a minute to leave a glowing review. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Welcome to the Hockey Pediocast. My name is Dimitri Filippoic. and joining me is the official color commentator of the hockey piety cast. It's Mike, what's going on, man? Not too much. I like the designation, and I'm just in Pittsburgh getting ready for game five,

and wondering if this season will end on Thursday night. Yeah, it's looking very possible just based on the way this series is going. I mean, you've gotten a healthy dose of this very Sharks team this postseason. You cover the first round series against the Kings, and then you did the Western Conference final and its entirety against the Blues.

I guess you can speak, speak to the impressiveness of Thornton and Burns' beards in the flesh, though. They are something to behold. I mean, on a practical scale, I still can't grow a beard. I can't barely air after shave once a week. But I can't imagine that's comfortable to walk around with day-to-day, but even more so when you've got to go play a sport, you're hot, you're sweaty, and stuff flying around.

I don't know. I mean, I'm all for, you know, embracing the playoff beard. Man, they're taking to another level. I'm sure they will be happy. for whenever their season ends, at least to be able to shave it all often, and get back to normal life. Yeah, I mean, as someone who has a medium-sized beard myself, it's definitely, it's becoming warmer now during the summer, and I'm starting to think about shaving it, and I can't imagine how much those guys are sweating during these games. Let's, okay, I want to ask you something about the penguins, because it's pretty clear that there's a distinction to be made between,

They obviously have the team speed in terms of guys like Haglin and Kessel just purely how fast they can skate. But what really sticks out to me from watching them is how fast the decisions they make are versus the ones the sharks are making right now, where it seems like they know exactly what they want to do with the puck pretty much as soon as they get it, regardless of who on their team is retrieving the puck in the first place. I don't know. Is that kind of sticking out to you as well when you're watching these games? Yes. You know, there's three kinds of speed in hockey.

and you know, there's how fast you can skate, which is Kessel and Hagelin and the guys that can fly around the ice. There's how fast the puck can move, which is faster than anyone can skate. And maybe the most important one is how fast you can make decisions and accurate decisions. And I think in all those areas,

Pittsburgh has been better than San Jose. And I think really when you watch the series, there are a lot of different reasons why Pittsburgh has been the better team throughout the four games. But how cleanly they break out. out of their own end zone, and how often they do so is been surprising and as important as anything that they do that has allowed them to have the 3-1 lead. So you're right.

And what's maybe most amazing is that we're not talking about guys who traditionally you would associate as being gifted puck movers, guys who would make quick decisions and be able to make good passes on the tape. even though they might be slightly riskier than just ringing around the boards. And when Ben Lovejoy is going back, and without any hesitation, snapping one up the middle onto a guy's tape, you know that that team is in sync. So Mike Sullivan deserves a lot of credit.

The players do. But I think the other element of speed, and I do believe this to be the case, is that they generally have a little bit more time because the San Jose Sharks' top players are not getting in on the foreshed. They're not pressuring them the defense of Pittsburgh as much as I think the Sharks' defense that are feeling of pressure from Pittsburgh. So I think they're given a little bit more time

than some of the Sharks have seen because the Fords on San Jose just aren't getting in on the forecheck as quickly. And why do you think that is just because the penguins are making those decisions and those passes as quickly as we said they are? Well, I think, what Pittsburgh has done in the neutral zone

and pressuring the dump-ins so that the good support and the tight with speed support that any good dump-in requires to get pressure is not there all the time. So when you're by yourself in the neutral zone you're getting pressure, you just kind of dump it in the corner, but you have no teammates within 30 or 40 feet of you, well, it gets a lot easier to head back there, make a pass,

get your head up, make a decision, and get going the other way as opposed to when you have a guy in hot pursuit and you know you're going to get hit and then you're more likely to just put it around the board. So especially on that number one line because Thornton Pavelski and Hurtle when Hurtle was healthy, they play almost a different style than the other line and what they do in the neutral zone with Joe Thornton blowing the zone, Povilski and Hurtle playing in their own end down below the goal line and then Thornton kind of coming back, buying time and space as a sport,

Ford comes with speed and then making good passes. That hasn't been there. Joe Thornton hasn't had the time or space or the ability to create it in the neutral zone to allow his linemate to get up and get the blue line, make plays or dump it in with support, and the loss of Thomas Hurdle, who is skilled enough to play those guys, but also big and quick enough to get down on the foretick and help turn Fox over is not helping their caught either. But that line to me has been the biggest drop-off for San Jose,

because I saw how great they were. L.A., Nash, St. Louis, they were almost unstoppable, but they have not been able to find it through the neutral zone like they did in the first three rounds. Yeah, and with hurdle out these past few games, they also haven't really seemed to find a good replacement on that top line wing spot yet. I know that Melker Carlson scored a goal in game four,

and they've tried guys like Zubris. And I think that it was interesting when they were scrambling late in game before, they actually bumped Kuture up there and really just tried to load it. up that line. But I don't know, it just seems like Thornton and Pavelski are such good players that anyone should theoretically be able to, you know, play with them and produce effectively just because they're going to put them in such good positions to succeed. But it did seem like hurdle, especially in those first couple of playoff series, was the perfect fit with those two guys. And for whatever

reason, they haven't really been able to make it work since. Yeah, I mean, part of its chemistry. I mean, even as good as the two Joes are, I mean, a little bit of chemistry helps when you're familiar with what those guys want to do. I think part of it is a pretty capable defensive player and was willing to play down below the goal line, allowing Pavelsky and Thornton to not always be down there. And he's strong enough because when they dove the puck in that line when they were all healthy, it was almost always Pavelski and Hurdle

getting in the forecheck. And Hurdle was strong enough to hit a guy, stop the puck, and then protect the little bit so that he can then, offer up the whole pressure release to Joe Thornton on the far side, and then Thornton will eat his matching. So he plays a vital role, and I think we ran some stats up until his injury, Tomash Hurdle had the most grade A, high quality, high danger,

whatever you want to determine them, scoring chances of any player in the playoffs. He was on the receiving end of so many chances because of what you talk about, how good Joe and Joe are, but also because he stops the puck and is able to get the puck to those guys in the offensive zone where then they can make the finishing play to create the chance, and

they miss that. And I think when you watch this series, and whenever you see San Jose buzzing around in the offensive zone, generally it's the lower lines. It's Tierney's lines. It's a falling line. I think they're just a little bit quicker at getting in on the forecheck. Now, they

may not finish the chances like the top couple lines can, but at least they're getting in on the play a little bit more because they're just a little bit quicker. Yeah, no for sure. Hey, Mike, I wanted to get your perspective on the idea of score effects just because we see it work. It's magic all postseason. And then most recently we saw it in Game 4 where the Penguins kind of sat back a little bit with that two-go-le lead late in the game. And the sharks took advantage and really played the best sustained hockey we've seen them play in this entire series it feels like. And I don't know, I always have this tricky balance in my head because I understand that, you know, there's this human element to it just in the terms of the way, the way's huge. humans are wired where it's human nature to kind of sit back and be, I don't even know what the way it is, grab it, just like not be as kind of going full bore and trying to go 110% because you know that you're where the other team wants to be at the moment.

But like if you're a coach, how do you sort of prevent against that? Because we always hear coaches talk about how they need to keep playing the right way and keep playing their own game. But when it comes to it, it never actually winds up working out that way. Well, it's clearly very difficult because it's been that way for just about every team we can think of. And you hit it on the nail in the head. It is human nature that guys have a tendency to sit back. Can we have the lead?

We don't want to make the big mistake. Let's just make sure that we make them earn it. Don't give them anything easy. All those kind of thoughts go through your head. And you think, well, you got a goalie. All we need is 20 minutes. We're talking six, seven shifts each, and we'll get out of here with the win. So that is the reality that just about everyone goes through.

I think it starts with the coach, and it also starts with your top players, the guys who are going to play the most. And, you know, there is the idea that you should play intelligently, not make risky plays, don't dump it out in front blindly, don't throw any hope passed up the middle, because, you know, for all the reason we just talked about, but the coach and the top players,

they have to be able to continue to make plays, to skate, to be aggressive, and to think about trying to score. And when they do that, I think it filters down to the rest of the team. It's when your top guys start sitting back and just defending, then everyone starts doing it. The one message, if I was a coach and I was trying to limit the score effects, which is very difficult, I would just be the one I just skate.

Guys, you got to skate, you got to move your feet. That's all I would move your feet, because when you start waiting and looking for passes and not thinking about attacking, then the game catches up to you and passes you by. If you skate all the time, that's what opens up things. That's what gets your legs moving,

your hand moving, and your head moving to make the next better play. So if I was the coach, in this case, Mike Sullivan and game four, I'd be up and down the bench, boys, we have to skate, got to move your feet, got to move your feet, got to move your feet,

and then trust that you guys will make the right decision. Yeah, no, the first coach that figures out how to consistently get that message to his players will be a very wealthy and successful individual, I feel like. And I think the rare occasions, like, I'm thinking at the times when I played in some of those teams,

like the very best teams when you played had the ability to not fit back. And I think those teams were teams that love playing with the puck, love to create offers, they were defensive teams by nature, and they had a lot of depth. So even the third and fourth line guys weren't thinking, I'm only,

out here to shoot it out anyway, no matter what to score. The third and fourth lines also think, I want to score as well. And so I think of those great Detroit teams in the late 90s, early 2000s when they had all the Russians and Marty the Point and McCart of the grind line and all those guys. I think

of the Ottawa Senators teams in the early 2000s, the mid, who were lighting it up and making the Stanley Cup final. I found like those are the teams that they'd get up for and it'd be far more likely if the game would end up 7-1 than for two because they kept pushing forward and they had the right combination of style and personnel

to maybe make it more likely that they could hang in there playing the same way. And I do think, you know, we spend a lot of time thinking from the perspective of the team that's up where we're critical of them for being too conservative and not wanting to make the costly play that makes them look like the goat, but there also is the other side of it where we don't really discuss how the team that's trailing is all of a sudden kind of and just going balls to the walls and trying to tie the game up and just playing more aggressive hockey, trying to create better scoring chances and stuff like that.

So it is really sort of a two-way street in that regard. It is. And we always hear the pundits or critics or whatever saying, where was that desperation in the first 40 minutes? Where was that kind of effort and sense of urgency early on? And again, it's part of its human nature that you're about to lose. But part of it's also you're willing to, accept a greater degree of risk.

So you open the game up, you'll give up more chances, and you'll give up the odd two-on-one-one or three-on-two at the expense at the expense. And that's what, you know, San Jose was doing as they were trying to get back into the game. But, yeah, I mean, part of it, you can give a little bit of credit to the team

chasing because they changed their game as well. And they get a little bit further away from their system, a little looser, and that opened things up. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so if you're coaching, the sharks, put yourself in Pete DeBore's shoes. What adjustments are you making? Can I be myself in instead? I'd rather be my color. I think we can both easily do that job. Just keep doing what you're doing, guys. Just keep doing it. Yeah, more than the same. Exactly. So I think the one thing that I keep circling back to

for looking at the sharks team is I don't quite understand why they're riding this Polack and Dylan pairing as much as they are. I understand that you want to kind of spread the wealth and you don't want to ride your top guys too much because then there's going to be sort of a negative effect on their performance. But at the same time, it's just like late in the game, for example, in game four, they desperately need a goal

and guys like Spalling and Polack are out there. And I'm just wondering whether Pete DeBore has really been paying attention to how those guys have been playing in his entire postseason, really. Yeah, I mean, I think coaches, I mean, every coach, Pete DeBore as well, I mean, I think he probably wants, he saw the first two rounds, and the team won, and the team was always in control and looked pretty dominant, even if the underlying numbers of a Pollock-Gillian pairing were not great.

He wants to appreciate what they've done, and he wants to keep things consistent. He doesn't want to send a message to his team, like, oh, no, we're changing everything because we're down. Except maybe it's time to change everything because you're down. There's no reason to worry about tiring guys out. There's two days between every game. Who cares if they get tired? I mean, let them play the top four guys so much that you get to a point where like, okay, now they're suffering.

Don't worry about in case their game falls off. Push them to the point where their game might fall off, then spot in Polack and Dillan. I think the matchup against Pittsburgh has really highlighted that third pairing's defensive issue. It's just the foot speed, getting in races, turning pucks over, the pressure. they were more effective, seemingly more effective against the bigger bodies of L.A. and St. Louis, you might think if you're Pete DeBoer, we'd like those guys to bang around, clear the front of the net,

be a little more physical, send a message kind of idea, as opposed to we'd like the guys who just want to get the puck out of our end on somebody's tape. Because even when Dylan and Polack play well, and I mean, again, I've been with them for six weeks, and Pete DeBore has been very complimentary of them as a pair publicly, they do a decent job defending and not giving up big scoring chances,

but what they don't do is once they do defend and turn a puck over, they don't do a great job of then transitioning it to a player. They just shoot it out a lot. And so they get in that spin cycle, defend it turn it over, shoot it out, defend some more turnover, shoot it out, change. And while you're not getting scored on perhaps,

and you might be hitting guys and blocking shots, you're not really generating any offense going the other way. And that's where San Jose needs to get to. They need to generate stuff. It's not just about stopping Pittsburgh. It's about getting their own offense going. And I think that's where that third pairing has struggled, turn to the playoffs, but maybe even more so against Pittsburgh.

Yeah, it's interesting because it feels like in 2016, we use this crutch kind of quote-unquote stay-at-home defenseman term for guys like Polack and Dylan where, you know, know, they're more, they're just comfortable being in their own zone and defending in front of the net and clearing the crease and stuff. But it does feel like if you're going to use that term, stay at home defensemen. It's much more fitting for a guy like, let's say, even a Vlasic or a Martin, where they're very defensively responsible and they're great in their own zone. But they can also do enough to kind of generate other stuff as well rather than just being one-trick ponies like that. Yeah, I mean, ideally, the best defensive defenseman wouldn't play in his own end, wouldn't have to play defense.

Wouldn't that be the best? I mean, it's not possible, but, I mean, by definition, if you're not ever in your own end, then you don't have to worry about anything. You're a perfect defensive defense. And so, and I think that's where the Martins and the Vlasics are exceptional, is that when they are down there, as every defenseman will be, they're very good, but they're also good at getting out of there. And that's the difference between, you know, average NHL defense.

who don't produce points and above average NHL defenders who can, who don't produce points, how little time they spend their own end and how quickly they can help their team transition often. Okay, so other than don't play your worst players as much as you are, what other adjustments are we talking?

Yeah, so yeah, I'm, you know what, I don't, I guess I don't see a ton of tactical changes coming up for San Jose. It seems like a bit of a cop-out, but I don't think Pete DeBore is going to change much. You might shuffle his lines around. and you might see Kuture up with Pavelski and Thornton maybe a little bit more often,

that kind of stuff. But I think he's going to try to suggest, and I think he might believe this, is that these have all been one-goal games, except for the last one, which is a two-go-game, with a goal late. There's been two overtime games. We haven't played our best. We haven't had anything remotely close to a good star. We haven't gotten the first goal, partly because we haven't been very good,

partly because when we do get a chance their goal, it's been better than ours, so we're not that far off. Even though it feels when you watch the game and you look at the numbers, they are pretty far off, I'm sure in his mind and in the dress room, he's trying to impart the idea that they're really not. And if they can just win one game somehow, some way, whether it's a brilliant performance

or just upping their level, playing the same style they've always played, then they're right back on home ice and heading back to California and they're right in the series, down three, two going home. So I don't think I'd see a ton of taxable changes. And I don't even know exactly what they can do because the biggest one I would want to encourage, if I could try, would be to kind of adjust the puck support routes of Joe Thornton's line.

That's hard to do because it's been amazing. So to suggest for them to do anything different would be tough. But I think that's, as I watch them, the more they get strung out and separated from each other as they move up the ice out of their own end into the new zone, the less success they're having. And so I would encourage that line to play more like all the other lines where let's come lower, closer to the support and be close to each other because trying to string Joe Thornton out to the Faroo line isn't working. So that would be one tactical change for that line specifically. I would try to get. But beyond that, I'm not sure how much they can do beyond a little bit of roster shuffling.

Yeah, and you know, you're saying Pete DeBoros probably thinking, looking at this series and being like, oh, we're really close, we're right in this. And he's not wrong in the sense that a couple bounces here or there, and all of a sudden some of these one-goal games go their own way. But you're also right in the sense that it really hasn't felt like Pittsburgh's ever been in serious danger in this series. And if you're San Jose, you need to sort of control your own fate and try and force some of the luck to go your way as opposed to just kind of sitting back and being like,

oh, well, hopefully things wind up turning around because we haven't really seen many signs that it will heading into game five or even game six and beyond. Yeah, you're right. You're right. and a big part of San Jose's game is the power play, not only for the goals he creates, but for the offensive zone time, the touches, the confidence,

the feel-good vibes that offensive players get for playing on the powerplay. I remember them very well. When you're out there and you have to handle it, you get a couple shots, even if you don't score, it filters down to your five-on-five game because you just got that mojo going. You're feeling good.

You get your confidence, get your legs. And so I don't know how you could coach try to draw penalties, but whether it's encouraging guys to move their feet more along the wall to not let themselves get pinned, whether it's challenging guys by trying to get to the net on them, you know, like to try to drive guys to the net, and try to force guys into taking penalties. But the problem is, and it's the root of all problems for San Jose,

is guys take penalties when they're usually, losing races. When they're, when they're chasing the game, when they're behind, they got a reach, they got a hook, they got a pull,

they got to hold. Well, if you're generally faster, and if you have the puck more off than the other team, you don't get yourself in those spots very often where you are in trouble

chasing behind the play and then forced to take a penalty. So it's a problem, the speed is compounded and manifested itself in all areas. But I think the lack of power play opportunities, which you give fits for credit for

for being disciplined, but also the speed of their game is not should not be underrated with regards to the impact on the five-on-five play for the top players for San Jose. Yeah, no, I think that's very fair. I'm just looking at trying to think of some sort of profound adjustments myself, and I'm sort of drawing a blank honestly. Like Pittsburgh just seems like it's been a bad matchup for these guys on an X's and O's level. And, like, for example, just it's such a different animal than anything they've really seen this postseason because obviously San Jose kind of took advantage of their team speed and how fast they were making their plays against some of the guys they played in the Western Conference bracket. But like watching this Penguins team with their breakouts, for example, like we were discussing, they run this alley you play more than any team, probably more than the other 29 teams combined where their defensemen just fling it up in the air and it goes high in the neutral zone.

And I'm generally not a fan of that play. because it is sort of basically a turnover, but at the same time, they're, they're so well equipped with their forwards up front to track those pucks down and then either get it quickly into the offensive zone or draw those penalties.

And it's just San Jose hasn't really kind of had to face an animal like this, and I don't really know how they kind of combat that. Yeah, yeah, I've been watching the games, they get the same, and, you know, about Al U. You play, it can be frustrating. You're like, you know what, make a pass to someone, please. But can you imagine, I always equated to your,

you're back receiving a punt, but you can't call a fair catch. So the defender's there ready to catch the puck, knowing that if he catch it, he can get hit. If he fumbles it, the guy can jance by him for a breakway, as we saw it happened one time against Nashville. Roman Yosey got dance as a puck bounced over his stick on an alley-up. Or the other alternative is like,

I don't trust either one of those situations. I just keep backing up, which then allows them to skate into the puck with some speed. and so unless you're really confident to catch them puck out of the air, it can be a tricky thing to handle, especially with the speed that you know is coming at you. And when I watched this series,

having watched San Jose so closely to the first round, the way that Pittsburgh is kind of layering their defense and adding extra bodies into every little puck battle is exactly what San Jose was doing to their opponents. And they were quicker always with, on the back check, If it's a two-on-two, there's always a shark there fishing away at the puck to make it a two-on-three. If it was a two-on-two below the goal line on the cycle, there was always a third, sometimes fourth guy down there,

fishing away, bumping, helping turn pucks over. And that's what I see with Tipper. They always have an extra stick in there. They always have an extra body around the puck. So when you're a skilled guy for the sharks, you're looking up to make a play, and you're worrying about the defender that is engaged with you primarily. But here comes Carl Aglin on a flybock. to bump you or slash your stick or get escaped in the way.

And you're like, I'm just worried about shaking off Chris LaTang. I'm not worried about where this guy's coming from. And it's been that way all the time. The commitment of the penguins to work to get back in the right spot and work to get down to the puck and support it. Even when they have numbers, it has been impressive and has given the sharks trouble. Yeah. Okay, so let's go with our presumptive Kahn-Smith picks here.

Who do you have? Is it Kessel in a runaway or is there? someone else that you think isn't getting enough attention? No, well, you know what? I don't think it's a runaway for probably a couple different reasons. I mean, part of them you have to address, maybe because it's Phil Kessel, because there's this perceived notion that he's a one-way player and, you know, the reputation he had in Toronto follows him to the point where,

you know, other than producing points, what is he doing? So if I was voting, I think I would go Kessel would be my number one guy because of his consistency, because of the fact that he's being able to drive that line offensively. I know Nick Bino's good defensively. He does a lot of good thing. And I know Kahlahagen skates fast. But as far as creating, neither one of those two guys

is a tremendous creator of offense. They're both skilled and get to the right spots. They don't create it on their own as well as Kessel. has helped them do it consistently throughout. The fact that they've been able to be pretty good defensively, you know, you see them out there in San Jose playing against the Thornton line and not really having too much trouble with it, and Phil Kessel's part of that line,

has been more diligent in the defensive assignments. I think that it should be Phil, the leading goals for point-getter for the Cup winning team. The other default pick would be Matt Murray, of course. you know, if you're, and I don't, I don't give him any extra points for being a rookie. He's just the goal. You don't get cons points for being a rookie goal.

He's the goalie, and he's played very well, made all the saves. But I think watching Pittsburgh does such a good job in front of him that he's been excellent. And I think a favorite is 925 or something like that heading in, which is excellent. But he's not light out incredible, hasn't had to steal games, hasn't stood on his head.

you look at those grade A chances, the home plate, whatever you wanted to find, good scoring chances. Certainly in the final and a lot of other tests, the opposition just doesn't get a lot. So while Murray's been a great story and he's played excellent, I don't think I would give it to him. And I think the other guy, the other couple guys, Crosby and Latang,

which should get serious consideration for their all-round games for the amount of minutes LaTang plays. And, you know, he does have the odd brain cramp, whether it's a turnover on the short-handed in-game, whatever it was. Three, I think. Three. You know, he is, especially without Trevor Daley,

as valuable as anyone on Pittsburgh. But to me as maybe Kessel, Murray and Crosby, because he's Brosby, I guess. And he's been very good as well. But I kind of on a personal level, you know, I'm from Toronto. I live there. I know Phil a little bit personally. I've been out with him, had a beer of him.

I very much saw how he played and how he was perceived and treated in Toronto by fans and media. And some of his, the criticism of his game is justified, some of his criticisms about his commitment to team and decisions, whether it's salute, all those nonsensical things, are fair. A lot of it wasn't. A lot of it wasn't. A lot of it was he's the best player, highest-stage player on a team that's terrible. so let's just take him to pieces. And that really wasn't fair to him.

So for him to squash any thought, well, one, you can't win with a guy like that, it's ridiculous, and it might be proven correct on Thursday, but also that he's not a big-time player and he can't come through him to clutch and all those other narratives that make no sense. I'd love to see him win that cup,

raise it over his head. Who knows, he might get it first from Sidney Crosby. Who knows? but also take a cons to Mike and show back up in Toronto. I'll say, yeah, thanks, guys. I guess I'm okay. Yeah, I guess I'm okay. Yeah, no, that would be great,

and it'd be interesting to see how, whether there's some sort of retractions and some people kind of revisionist history or whether people just admit they were wrong. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure there will be, you know, a lot of the, well, he's playing the best ever, and he's matured and he's in the right role because he's not the lead guy.

Yeah. All of them are partly true. I just think he was so heavily scrutinized and criticized in Toronto for being really a pretty good player that it would be great for him to win a con's life. I mean, I don't think anyone would have thought that would be happening this quickly in Pittsburgh, especially after a pedestrian regular season. So on a personal level, I would not be disappointed at the DM win.

Yeah, no, me neither. Okay, we'll get you out of here on this one last question. I was thinking about this, and I don't want to get you in trouble here. So you can plead the fifth if you want. But let's go back into the hot tub time machine and go back to your playing days. And now, what are you thinking as a player about the potential of a team in Vegas? I am thinking, giddy-up. When's the road trip?

It would be legitimately. It would be the schedule comes out whenever it comes out in two weeks. And, you know, when I was playing anywhere but Toronto, my first look at the first game, when's the first game, and when do I go to Toronto? Like, those are the ones, and what was the Christmas break like? Those are the ones that you would look for?

Now it's going to be, when's the first game, when are we going to Vegas, and how many days off do we have there? And then, oh yeah, when is Christmas, when is the all-thare break, all those other things? Absolutely. I think it's going to be amazing

if you put me back in the former players' eyes to go there and have some fun and this is you're in Las Vegas and I put some thought of this and I'm wondering how teams will manage

that situation and if I'm the coach of a team going into Las Vegas and I, we play Thursday night and like most teams you travel in Wednesday

leave Thursday night after the game if I'm the coach of that team we head into Vegas and say, okay boys, this is what the deal is.

Wednesday night for the game go do your thing, but be sensible, get in your room by midnight, whatever, you know, just be a professional. Don't get dragged into the strip and all those things that it can offer. Because what I'm going to give you for your discipline and professionalism on Wednesday night is that on Thursday, we won't be leaving after the game. You can stay on Thursday night, you can do whatever you want, and we'll travel Friday, and that will be your day off, and you better not be terrible on Saturday's game.

because I think that's probably your best way to manage it, because otherwise, if you're taking off right after the game on Thursday, very likely you might have the odd guy, you know, just sampling some of what Las Vegas can offer at 1 a.m. on Wednesday. So it'll be a fascinating case study to see how teams deal with it. And also what kind of record, is there a legitimate, tangible home ice advantage for the Las Vegas team? because guys maybe are a little tired heading to that game.

Who knows? I know there's been a lot to talk. I'm in Toronto that the Raptors play a lot of games on Sundays at like one in the afternoon. And the word around the NBA is that, you know, visiting kings love visiting Toronto. It's a fun town. They like their sports stars and they like their nightlife. And a lot of the time the thought is that Toronto Raptors benefit from those Sunday noon starts, one starts because of the nightlife that the city of Toronto can offer.

So you only imagine you'd have to times that by about a thousand for Las Vegas and seeing what kind of impact they might have. But I think it's exciting, regardless of whether I'm a player, fan commentator, whatever it might be that Las Vegas, it would be fun. Yeah, when you started that off by saying I've put a lot of thought into this, I thought you were about to announce your comeback to the NHL. No, I should be done. Yeah, right, exactly.

they need to check you forward or maybe I have to dust off my resume to go work for Vegas. No, but it's, I'll want to get a game there. I'll be curious to see you how it all goes down. It'll be fun. Yeah, for sure.

Mike, thanks for taking the time, man, and enjoy the rest of your time in Pittsburgh and the rest of the series, and I'm sure we'll chat soon, okay? All right, sounds good, thanks. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud.

At soundcloud.com slash Hockey PDOCast.