The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 94: Living in a Salary Cap World

Episode Date: June 20, 2016

Chris Johnston joins the show to discuss Chicago's continued purging of talent due to cap troubles, the special group of young talent the Hurricanes are slowly putting together, and what possible reasons the Ducks could have for going back to the Randy Carlyle Well. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 1:30 Trade involving the Blackhawks and Canes 8:00 Stan Bowman working around the cap 13:30 Carolina's young core talent 21:00 Why did the Ducks go back to Carlyle? 31:45 Expansion Draft fodder Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Stitcher and can also be streamed right here on the website. Make sure subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new shows as they’re released, and also take a minute to leave a glowing review. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Demitri Filipovich. and joining me is my buddy Chris Johnson. Chris, what's going on, man? Not much. I've got to tell you, there's a little more pressure this time to meet me because I've been out on the Stanley Cup trails, and I can't believe the number of people have approached me and said they've enjoyed hearing us on the PDO cast.

So we've got a lot of listeners out there working for NHL teams right now. I can't believe people are actually listening. I know. It used to feel like just you and I having a chat before. It seems that your audience is growing, my friend. That's good to hear, man. Okay, let's get into it, because, I feel like, you know, is this going to be a pretty busy offseason just based on everything that we've, all the rumblings we've heard so far and some of the moves we've seen already? It's, there's no real rest here between the end of the postseason and the start of this off season.

Not at all. And, you know, really, well, the playoffs, you know, all the focuses on those four teams or two teams as you get down to the end. But the reality is there's 20 plus other teams that for a month now have been doing a lot behind the scenes. And I think now that the season's over and obviously is the entry draft. approaches. Everyone's kind of been gearing up for this period. And we've already seen some trades and some signings, a couple buyouts. And we're going to see a whole lot more in the next few weeks. Well, let's get into that trade for anyone that missed it. It was between the Blackhawks and the Hurricanes. And the Blackhawks basically wanted to get rid of Brian Bickle's contract off their books. And they had to

attach Tuval Tera Vinen with it and got a couple of picks back in return. And I don't know, let's break it down from both sides. But first, let's start with the Blackhawks because I think there's a bunch of stuff to kind of chew on here, just in the sense that I saw a Hawks beat reporter Mark Lazar's tweet out a list of the cap casualties the Blackhawks have had during this era of winning. And it's remarkable. You could pretty much, I wonder if you just use this team of guys that they had to send out just because they couldn't afford them anymore. I wonder if, like, that team would be one of the best teams in the league. Well, maybe instead of an expansion draft, we'll just give Vegas all the players at Chicago had to have had to give away or trade away or let walk in free agency. as a result of their cap situation.

And it really is remarkable that they've been able to. I mean, it speaks obviously to the quality of the core players they have. But also, I think, in Stan Bowman and his staff's ability to find either through the draft or in other ways, players to compliment them that this team's been so competitive for so long. And you wonder when the moment comes that almost too much is too much, that they've had to give away too much of their core because clearly Tavitavainen is not someone they had any interest at and parting with. But to get rid of Brian Bickle's contract, and I think to do it now, a week out from the draft, and just as we're all expecting the salary cap number to be finalized was important

enough that they stomached that and got a couple draft picks and we'll move along and try to, I guess, replace table skates a little bit in their lineup. Well, it's a bit of a catch-22 situation, just in the sense that they've been the gold standard over this past nearly decade now. I think they've won three titles and they've made two more conference finals, which they've lost to the Kings there. And, you know, I look back and they hadn't had any playoff series wins in the 12 years preceding that stretch. So I don't think their fans are complaining by any means about what's going on in the past few years here. But when you do a ton of winning like this, you, and it sort of like accumulates just in the sense that generally means you have a lot of good players.

And with the cap system kind of ensuring that there's going to be parity around the league, it's just not feasible to necessarily keep all these guys. And that's only heightened when you make missteps with contracts, which you wind up. regretting. Well, and I have to think that one of the next things that's going to come, and it probably won't be this offseason, but maybe as soon as the next one, is they're going to have to contemplate getting rid of one of their big money guys, one of the guys that has been a core member of the franchise, because, you know, at some point you do need to, I think, have the youth come up and, you know, you need, especially in their case, with so many top-heavy contracts, they need players on entry-level deals or, you know, contracts less than a million

a year that can contribute a little bit for them to have continued success. And, you know, it's funny, too, the kind of catch-22 they find with Artemi Panera where obviously he was a great signing from the KHL, but for him to hit all of his schedule A and B bonuses has really put them in this bind in addition to the Bickle contract. And, you know, he earned $2.5 million in bonuses, which essentially are all being carried over to the 2016-17 season. And, you know, if you're looking at any kind of culprit, and I don't mean that as in terms of someone to be blamed too much.

But that's one of the main reasons they're in calf trouble again, is that one of the guys they found who was a great story this year has ultimately ended up making a lot of money, which he's earned, but it's also hurt them in terms of what they can do for next season. Yeah. Well, I sympathize with Bowman a little bit just in the sense that I understand the human element to this sport and how, you know, you can't just necessarily view all these transactions

from just a cold-blooded calculated perspective where you're just cutting the tie whenever the guy stops providing value for you. Like, you need to, you know, be tactful about it. But at the same time, like, the Bickle contract, I feel like the second that was signed, I don't think anyone was necessarily thinking that this was going to really work out well for the Blackhawks, right? Like, he had one year with 15 goals. He'd never hit 40 points. And then all of a sudden, he had this 20 or so game stretch where his shooting percentage was through the roof

and he's playing with some of the best players on the team. And then they wind up rewarding them for four years, 16 million. That seemed like a poison pill from the second it was assigned. It looks like a cautionary tale. And if there's any positive view of the Pittsburgh Penguins, they don't really have any players other than UFA, Ben Lovejoy, the defenseman. But they don't have anyone in a sort of similar circumstance because you're right.

I think the difficult things is when you win a Stanley Cup. I mean, the Blackhawks, I believe, once played till June 15th for one of their cups. I mean, you're basically playing right up until the draft. As a GM, you're going through the emotions of that. obviously the excitement of winning and then you know to not sign one of those guys who's contributed so much to a cup I think you know so quickly afterwards can be a difficult decision and you know we've seen Stan Bowman do that in the past when when they won their first cup it was you know two or three days later and they're shipping out Andrew Ladd and Christopher Steegg at the time and some others Dustin Bufflin I believe um so so he's had to do it but I do think in some ways the timing is part of it I mean you get swept up in and seeing your team win and and in Brian Bickle's case to just some of happened. He had that good playoffs. And as you're saying, now that we're removed from it, you can see why. But, you know, I can understand in some ways how it's happened, but certainly for any other future teams that win, or even if the Blackhawks get back there again, I think that there's enough

kind of evidence here that you have to think really clearly about what you're doing if you want to win a second or third or fourth. And, you know, the Blackhawks get the ultimate pardon because of just how much winning they've done. And I would think as long as Stan Bowman wants to, he'll get an opportunity to tear this thing down and take another shot at it at some point whenever they do enter a rebuild. Well, I do wonder that that seems like the next logical question for us to tackle, like where the Blackhawks go from here because clearly, I mean, they pushed the blues to a game seven there and it could have really gone either way. And there's still clearly a competitive team and they have a ton of talent. But I think that people sort of, they weren't necessarily paying really close

attention to them this season, didn't necessarily realize that there were some red flags here with this team just because Crawford's excellence in Nett and Keynes otherworldly offensive production on the ice sort of masked a ton of their flaws that they had as a team with a five-on-five performance that was definitely dropping and wasn't what we'd seen from them in years past and it makes sense because you look at the depth of this team and it's it's definitely been aroading and and now I just kind of wonder how they're going to fill all these gaps right they have guys like Ryan Hartman and Nick Schmaltz on the way and I know Stan Bowman's talked about them and and they have drafted well. And so, you know, Stan Bowman's earned enough benefit of the doubt here that

we should believe that he's going to be able to continue replenishing this talent until we see evidence that he's not going to be able to. But I just kind of wonder what this team's going to wind up looking in the next couple years from now. Yeah, I almost feel like he's probably going to just keep trying to run it until they hit a ditch until they really get to a point where there's no turning back. I mean, it's difficult when you've signed, you know, players like Canaan Taves to the amount of term and money that you have. I mean, there's still productive players, certainly Patrick Kane had a tremendous season this year.

Maybe it wasn't John and Taves' best, but I don't think he's on the steep decline just yet or anything like that at his age. And, you know, if anything that I saw from the Penguins, you know, that was a core. If we had been talking about them in September, I would have probably been asking, is it time to start doing something differently?

Do you trade, you know, Malcolm perhaps? Or, you know, do you start contemplating, almost hitting the eject button on that core. And obviously they managed to get the right players around them. And I would think in Chicago, even with the cap issues and where they stand and the red flags that you mentioned this season, that they still are kind of inclined to find ways to fill out around their main players. And keep trying until, as I say, there's almost no other way to go but a rebuild because they've strapped themselves to these guys. And even by winning three cups, they're likely going to be the team of this generation.

but if they can get a fourth, I mean, it's basically a virtual certainty at that point. And, you know, I don't fault them for kind of going all in on this hand because they've had such a good run. And, you know, I still think that there's reason enough to believe that a Kane-Tave's Keith-led team can win a Stanley Cup. You just need the right guys around them. And it's awfully difficult when we're having this conversation parallel to the other one where they're having to give some of those potential players away just because of cap issues. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of look at some of these other contracts that they have.

And, like, they must be a little bit concerned about what's going to happen with the Hosa contract, right? Like, there's a potential for a cap recapture penalty there? There is, yeah, I believe. Is he entering the $1 million year? It is, yeah. This season or the year after. I think it's the year after, yeah. Right.

And, you know, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but essentially if he were to retire in that year or any of the subsequent three or four, they would be dinged with a pretty significant penalty, something that was included in the most recent collective bargaining agreement because the league was so angry at all the contracts that. that had those backdiving deals, as they were called at the time, designed to lower the overall cap hit. And, you know, maybe Marion Hose will channels enter Yarmier-Yer-Yager and find a way to play his way through, you know,

all or most of that deal, and it won't be such a concern. But, you know, every year that's going to have to be on their minds, especially just because they leave so little room for error. And, you know, a lot of people kind of concluded after the Taravinen deal in Bickel, you know, which opened up about $5 million in cap room, that it meant that they were automatically going to be able to receive. signed Andrew Shaw. And, you know, Stan Bowman kind of tapped the brakes on that. And, you know, I can't blame him because, you know, the reality is we talked to a parent's bonuses. Well, I mean,

what's to say he's not going to hit them again this year? And even though he created a lot of space with that move, it might just be the space needed to kind of have the team as it is. And, you know, I would think that there's still going to be more maneuvering that needs to be done for the Blackhawks. But, you know, Stan actually has been a bit of a Houdini with the cap. He's found a way numerous times where everyone thought he was cornered and to find room and to keep his team afloat. And I think for them, it's a particularly important off season, much like Tampa Bay for the same reasons.

I mean, they haven't won a cup yet, but they have a lot of decisions to make with their key people and how they handle their cap situation. And, you know, basically both of these teams are probably among those dismayed that the salary cap is not going to rise very much, if at all, for next season. Yeah, yeah, I know for sure.

And you're speaking of that, Houdini Act, Samo was done. And we saw it this year, this trade that last year, where he takes on Ladd, Fleischman, and Dale Weiss, and somehow, considering they were already up against it financially and just makes it all work. And he's done a great job. I, you know, he, as I said before, he's definitely earned the benefit of the doubt in the sense that I'll be, you know, I'll be critical of the individual moves he makes like this one and the

Bickle signing and stuff like that. But in the big picture, like, there's plenty of reason to be confident that they'll figure out a way to make this work. Well, you know, I actually find him to be quite proactive in this. I mean, even the timing of the Bickle-Thervine deal, I mean, he didn't wait until the draft to try to get that trade done or right until the end of the bio period decide what he was going to do with Bickle. I mean, clearly he approaches these situations with a plan and executes it. Even the Brandon Sade deal last year came a couple days before July 1st when, you know, obviously Brandon Saud was going to likely be a target for an offer sheet, although we so rarely see those, but I mean, he was certainly among a player that could get one. And

And Chicago would have found itself in a real jam in that case, you know, basically where they're losing them for the draft pick compensation, but not, you know, necessarily the quality of players they got. And getting an Isamov, for example, out of that deal, who obviously fits so well with Artemian this year, you know, playing with him. So, you know, for all the ways that they've, they have created problems for themselves, I feel like that Stan Bowman's pretty good about, you know, basically making the hard decision and then trading the player that I'm sure in his heart of hearts

does not want to trade, but knows he has. to do it and kind of follows a plan. And, you know, I still expect the Blackhawks to be a team to be reckoned with next season. And I'm sure he's got a few more moves up his sleeve here, too. Yeah. Now, so let's talk about this from the Hurricanes perspective, because I think that they really did a commendable job here, sort of playing the role of the vulture where they had this cap, they had this cap situation right now, which is a legitimate asset for them because they have so much room to take on contracts. And instead of waiting to spend it more recklessly on July 1st, they were proactive themselves here and they took advantage of the situation and for their efforts,

they're going to get a guy that's 21 years old who just pretty much played his first full NHL season and everyone agrees has endless potential. So it seems like a no-brainer move for them. Yeah, there's a couple things here too. I mean, they'd even put themselves in pretty good position with their draft choices and, you know, getting that second round pick in the Erickstall deal in addition to a prospect so that, you know, in some ways you can see this in extension is the return for what they got for Eric Stoll at the deadline, which is obviously a difficult move to make in that situation where he has a no move clause and is essentially controlling where he goes

and then the Rangers no doubt knew that. But, you know, I feel like it's a really good use of their assets to turn it into a player that can actually play for them right away. And, you know, teams like the hurricanes, which, you know, expect to be somewhat on the rise, I mean, they had a very good regular season, I think, versus where most people, you know, had projected them to be this season that just passed. and to get a player that can be part of your lineup right away

as opposed to just another highly ranked prospect, I think is a real positive out of this. And you're right. I mean, they had to do some work to get to the salary cap floor. They're much closer now today after this trade and then signing Cam Ward back to that deal yesterday. But then they were leading into this. But it's a very smart use of that resource.

And, you know, I wouldn't rule out them using it again in another deal. I mean, there's only about three or four teams around the league, Arizona being one. New Jersey, we saw them trade for the Marks of our contract with Florida last week, but there's only a couple teams that are really in position in a meaningful way to take on what I guess we'll call bad salary in order to get ahead at this point. And so I think Carolina will still be a popular trade partner for other teams looking to make similar type of moves and credit to them for striking when they did because, you know, I don't see any way that they're going to regret this deal. And, you know, I'm sure the Blackhawks knew that. It was one of those

trades. You just got to kind of swallow, you swallow your pride as you're making it when you're in Stan Bowman's shoes. But, you know, this is a big win for the hurricanes. And I guess the only issue is how good a season will Tevo-Tarvindan have? And, you know, he is entering his second contract next summer. And, you know, maybe that could be the downside is if you have to end up paying him a lot of money. But that's probably a good problem to have if you're in Ron Francis's shoes. Yeah. And I think that sometimes we as a collective, can get a little carried away with getting too excited about prospect groups and young cores because, you know, we just naturally assume that there's going to be this progressive

development and, you know, sometimes teams plateau or there's injuries or guys don't necessarily develop the way we thought they would ideally. But, I mean, you look at this core of this team and it's really, there's a lot to like. I mean, Jeff Skinner, for all intents of purposes, is the grizzled vet of the team and he's like 24 years old. And then you've guys like Victor Rask and Elias Linholm and Tara Vinen now and Sebastian Ajo and Alexi Sarela are coming on the way. And then the blue line is ridiculous with Falk and Slavin and Pesci and Hanofin and Flurries on the way. And they've got a lot of picks this year. So I think that, you know, for them, they've really positioned themselves nicely here where if a lot of these guys start kind of developing at the same time and growing together, they could be both a really fun team to watch but also a really competitive team.

Yeah, that's a lot of tickets in the lottery that you just highlighted there. I mean, even if they don't all get to the potential that some see for them, clearly, you know, they've got a really good young core. One of probably the better ones in the league. I mean, maybe be a little shy on the top, top end talent. You know, obviously, Carolina hasn't been a team that's picked first overall and gotten to McDavid or Nykel somewhere along the way. But, you know, a really solid foundation there.

And, you know, if they are able to spend a bit of money, I think that they can add to it enough where we should expect them to at least be fairly competitive this year. And, you know, it's been a long time coming. And I think for all the discussion about, you know, what the future of that team is or that market, I mean, I think the first and foremost is they do have to get a competitive team on the ice to get more fans in the building and to create more excitement. Because when you have the kind of prolonged, losing, number of losing seasons that they've had,

I think that that's, you know, partly explains the issues that that team has had. So, you know, the timing seems to be right. And I guess this is the product of those losing seasons. as they've been able to draft a lot of these guys into their organization. But, you know, they really were, to my eyes, one of the pleasant surprises last year. Just, you know, even some of those Ds that you hit on were surprisingly solid contributors at age 20, 21.

And, you know, you can't count on that. So you're right. It's not going to be a straight arrow of progression in the positive direction. It never works that way. But I still feel as though that the hurricanes have a team. A lot of franchises would probably, you know, trade straight up for what they have, just because the prospect for the future is so strong. Well, the question for them is how quickly they want to make that next step

into being in the playoff discussion. I mean, they were sort of on the fringe this past year. And you mentioned the kind of getting the fan base on board, and it makes sense that if you were a fan of this team, you'd obviously gravitate towards them just because there is so much young talent to get excited about. But at the same time, I'm not sure if they ended the year as this, but I know at various points they had the league's worst attendance.

And I think that, you know, you look at the team and under Bill Peters, they really had this great structure. And you could see sort of the exoskeleton of what this team will look like once everything comes together. And they were a really strong possession team. But at the same time, they got the, I'm looking, the second worst, safe percentage in the league. And they just re-signed the guy that was partly responsible for that to a two-year, $3.3 million contract per season. So I'm kind of wondering what's going on there. It seems like an interesting situation that decided to go back to the Cam Ward well. Yeah, I mean, clearly this is a move tinged with some level of sensibility, you know, comfort level with the player, a guy that's been, you know, really one of the core members of your team, the only remaining member from that 06 Cup team now that Eric Stahl has been traded away.

And, you know, I saw some people fussing over the amount of money in the deal. That didn't bother me quite as much. I think the two-year term at least softens any blow there. But, you know, the real question, and I talked to a few people around the league last night, that I think a lot of teams are hands. handicapping is, are they done in goal? Are they going to, you know, try to maybe move at Eilac or and get in the mix for one of the other goaltenders that's available either via trade or, you know, obviously potentially on the free agent market, someone like James Reimer, or are they literally going to go forward here with the exact same goaltending duo that, you know,

as you mentioned, derailed them a bit last season. And, you know, right now we don't have a, we don't have an answer on that. I don't think that there's a clear sense out of Carolina what their exact plans are with the goaltending. But, you know, You know, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them, you know, moving lack or finding a way to get someone else in there to go with Cam Ward. And, you know, obviously when they surveyed other potential UFAs that they felt Cam gave them the best offer at that sort of the term and money he was willing to take, because, you know, I know for sure James Reimer's probably not coming to you on a two-year term unless he has to. He certainly is hoping to get more than $3.3 million on his, you know, average deal. Yeah, yeah. The gold inning market this year is definitely a question.

questionable to say the least. I think that I think we did this trade justice. Let's move on to the other big news that happened this week. And that was Randy Carlisle being hired by the Ducks. And I'm very curious for your take on this because you obviously saw a lot of Carlisle up close in Toronto. And I just, I guess I'll lead off with this. What am I missing here? Why did the ducks make this move? Well, you know, I think that we have to view this decision in the wider context of of what he means to that organization, his past relationship with the core. players because, you know, I think a little bit overlooked in the duck struggles this year and the way that the team and Bob Murray reacted to it was he really wasn't happy with Ryan Getslap and Corey Perry. And, you know, he said as much on a couple occasions, but I don't think, you know, it was sort of absorbed as much by people a lot focused on Bruce Boudreau, whether he would be fired in, you know, October, November, December. But, you know, I think one of the reasons he wasn't. And, you know, obviously that was discussed when they were, you know, way down in the standings. but was that Bob Murray felt that his big guys didn't come with either the right mindset,

the right level of conditioning or whatever it was, but he wasn't happy with those guys. So I think that we view this move in two ways. One, they're going to retain from all intents and purposes the same coaching staff that led them to the best penalty kill and power play in the league. So Paul McLean and Trent Yanni will be there presumably, I think, running things as they did. I don't think Randy Carlisle is going to come in. and structurally get involved in any of that.

And I think a lot of this is about motivation and trying to get at those guys who've been through life with Randy before. You know, he says he's softened a bit, but he's still a bit of a hard-ass coach. And I think on some level, this is about, you know, sending a message to those players because the Ducks realize, you know, they've got about a two-year window by their own estimation to really try to get over the hump here. You know, personally, I wouldn't have fired Bruce Brewdrow if I was in their situation. think that was that was probably i mean i understand the pressures and the you know them you know connecting

the dots between the four game seven losses and you know in a row um but you know if you were going to hire someone they they don't want a lot to change i think they just want to try to reach those key players in a different way and and you know given their relationship with randy and probably they know they know the good and the bad you know those those key players you know this is this is was a solution they came up with yeah um well okay here's my coaching theory though run by you. And I don't, when I say this, I know it can be interpreted this way, but I don't mean to sort of diminish the job NHO coaches do, because it's obviously a very difficult, demanding one, and there's a reason they make the money they do. And I don't think I could do the job myself,

but it's easy to kind of sit back here and criticize. But when I look at the landscape, I think there's like 15 to 20 guys around the league in terms of head coaches that are all just okay. And, you know, if they're helping or hurting the team, it's only incrementally, and you can just sort of shuffle them around. It's really tough for them to do. distinguish themselves. But then that leaves about five guys that I think are really good and really make a tangible difference for their team's performance. And then there's five guys who are dragging their team down and sort of making questionable moves and running questionable systems. And I think that Boudreau was pretty clearly amongst closer to that top tier. And I think that

the last time we saw Randy Carlisle, it'd be impossible to argue that he was anything but in that bottom tier. So that's why I think that this move for me is just sort of a baffling one. Right. Well, to me, coaching comes down to there's two areas that you grade them. There's the human element, which is certainly very difficult to measure, but clearly reaching your players, trying to make everyone feel comfortable, give them a role,

you know, get the best out of them as individuals, I think is part of it. And obviously, that can be tied to systems as well. And then there is systems. And, you know,

within a coaching staff, systems-wise, I think that there's ways, you know, with the assistance that you have to get around it. And I think some coaches, and I'm not going to name names in this case, but I do know some,

pretty well respected coaches who, you know, over a quiet moment or a beer, will acknowledge that they're not the best systems people, not they rely heavily on their assistance to, you know, either detect tendencies in the other teams or to help come up with game planning, and that a lot of their job is, is really, you know, interpersonal and communicating that plan and trying to make sure everyone feels part of it. And, you know, so if we view it in this context, and we're going to have to see here, I mean, I'm not sure either, and I can see everyone's trepidation. I mean, the Leafs couldn't get out of their own way. And, you know, it got to the point at the end of Randy's time in Toronto where he even understood the problems.

I mean, he was saying the same things in his, you know, press scrums in that, that a lot of the sharp analysts were about the Leafs issues with shot suppression, with, you know, obviously being outshot by huge margin, you know, a big part of the time. He was citing that as a problem too, but he wasn't able to find a solution. And, you know, part of that had to be personnel, but, you know, he didn't make a market difference in that area with that team. and ultimately I think that's why it was fired. But if he's in a situation, and I'm with clearly a better team than the one he had in Toronto, and if the guys around him are able to maybe, I don't want to say help him out,

but carry some of the load systems-wise, perhaps the one thing that we're all missing, and we won't really know until we see how it works, as if maybe Randy can reach some of the players in a different way and motivate them in a different way. I mean, I think it's much like Mike Sullivan and Pittsburgh, you know, one of his, to me, you know, and being around that team throughout the playoffs,

One of the key differences that he had is he really got the guys to buy in. And obviously there were some changes made to their structural game. They were flying the zone all over the place. I mean, they had a clear game plan to get the puck out and up to their forwards as much as possible to truly just play offense to avoid having to play defense and they got them through with, you know, relatively no-name blue line. But, you know, I think a lot of what he did is he reached the players in a way that Mike Johnson wasn't able to. And then, you know, got his big guys on board.

and we'll see if perhaps Randy in a different circumstance, surrounded by different coaches and different personnel, can have a bit more success. Honestly, it won't surprise me. And, you know, I know sort of, I've seen the Twitter reaction and the narrative that this is going to be an abject disaster. You know, I'm approaching it with slightly more of an open mind,

and I'm not glossing over anything I saw in Toronto because he really couldn't make that difference. He was frustrated by the end. But I think in this circumstance, there's a chance it works, Although my big caveat through it all is I wouldn't have fired Bruce Boudreau to begin with, just because I thought he was making, clearly that team was a very good team his whole time there. Yeah. And I think that it's interesting that distinction you bring up because I think the job Buzh Boudreau did last year

and making those tactical adjustments in clearly at the start of the year they were playing a certain way, and they were in a very good possession team at 5-1-5, and they just couldn't buy any goals. And instead of waiting for the shooting percentage to come around, and they pretty clearly turned to a more LA King style shot suppression game where they were bottling things up in the neutral zone and just sort of grinding down their opponents. And they obviously had that amazing turnaround as the year went along. And I kind of wonder if maybe now that those adjustments have been made

and they saw the success playing that way and the assistants are still there, maybe they'll keep those same adjustments and keep playing that way, but just rely on Carlisle to do different things. Of course, as you said, we won't really know until the season starts, but that is an interesting point that I haven't really heard people make. Right. And the issue is that, you know, and I've obviously been following the push towards stats the last number of years in the league, is that, you know, some of that interpersonal stuff is tough to measure. And I think some of it's probably easy to overvalue, too, I mean, when you're around a good team. But there still has to be some element of that. I mean, any one of us that does any job, I mean, there's a difference between a good boss and a bad boss. And that doesn't always mean someone who's positive with you or negative or either way. But, you know, there's certain people, you know, I've even found in my career that you want to work for a little bit more than others. that you feel like get you or that are on your side or whatever it may be.

And I'm not saying 100% that that's going to be what happens here, but that has to be part of the thinking because, you know, Travis Green is well regarded clearly as a future NHL coach. And, you know, I think that they didn't want to throw him into the situation where essentially it's, you know, it's win now or else. I mean, Randy Carlyleau got a two-year contract with an option for a third year depending on playoff success. So, I mean, he's, it's a really short-term move.

the idea of it is anyway. I mean, if they go and win a Stanley Cup, you could be there five or ten years, who knows. But, you know, for now, it's, it was him or Rick Bonas, essentially. And, you know, Rick Bonas, a great man, but hasn't been a head coach in this league in a long time. And been a long time, basically number two assistant in Vancouver. And then now the last few years in Tampa.

So they wanted a steady hand and experienced guy, I think after kind of flirting with the idea of trying to hire the next great coach. And we'll see it. It's an all or nothing game, but I would think, you know, for Bob Murray, if this blows up in his face, it could very well be his job, too. I mean, that organization is kind of approaching a crossroads here one way or another. Yeah, and I mean, the catch is that this Ducks team is really good again, and they're going to be really deep, and we'll see, like, we might just be overvaluing this whole coaching thing,

and the players might just be so good themselves that it won't even really wind up mattering that much. Well, but the one thing I wonder, they have a very important summer, too, and it hasn't been discussed too much because it's obviously, much focus the last few weeks on the coach search. But, you know, with the restricted free agents they have, with the likelihood that they're going to trade one of their goaltenders this summer, I mean, Frederick Anderson, most people, including myself, it assumed was the shoe in for that.

But, you know, with the way things kind of went down the stretch, do they contemplate trading John Gibson? I don't think they ultimately will because he's at such a favorable cap hit. He's still so young and thought of is a future star in this league. But, you know, with their defense been, with Ricardo Raquel needing a new deal as an RFA, Sammy Voughton and Hempus Lindholm. I mean, there's some key personnel moves to be made here and likely one trade for the goaltender.

And I think there's a strong possibility they deal one of those defensemen, likely Sammy Voughton if I was to be handicapping it. But those are two important trades to make if you're in Bob Murray's shoes because they will kind of erode somewhat the depth of the team and depending on what the return is. And I'm not saying that those moves will determine one way or another

whether they have a chance of the cup next year. But I still think that there's an interesting summer to be had around. And I'm especially with both Randy Carlisle and Bob Murray now talking about the need to move towards more of a speed type of team and maybe looking for different types of players and we've seen be what the ducks fielded in the past. Yeah. Okay. One final topic before I let you go. And I wanted to talk about the expansion draft and the rules and everything around it just because you have been on the forefront of reporting on it.

And I think there's still a lot of uncertainty and stuff in the air that's yet to be answered and resolved, really. But one thing that seems pretty clear from all of these proposed rules for this draft coming up is I think the league is pretty clearly making a concerted effort to ensure that this team is at least something resembling competent right off the bat, right? Well, they're going to have a chance at some names, that's for sure, just by the way it's structured and by how few players each team can protect in essence. And, you know, it's really no guarantee that the team will be competitive, even. still. I mean, you know, as someone point out to me, works for another team. It all depends on who that GM is. Like, is this guy was kind of saying, as

they've done their mock expansion drafts behind the scenes with his team. Like he said that there's going to be a lot of sort of semi-big names, you know, players that have accomplished something in the league available. And then, you know, what really will separate whether that team is any good is if they can, you know, find the players that

maybe haven't done a lot in the NHL yet, but that are on their way up because that's probably the key more than, you know, getting a 32-year-old on a hefty contract with who might sell some names or jerseys or something. I mean, really, if you're talking about being a competitive team, they have to find the players that are kind of trying to be snuck through or that, you know, are going to be, you know, on the cusp of starting breaking into the NHL. And, you know, that'll be a difficult task.

And, you know, one thing that I'm looking forward to, I'm heading down to Vegas for, you know, what we expect will be the expansion announcement next week. But I'm very curious to see who they install in the hockey operations roles and, you know, how quickly we get an understanding of what that team will be like, because that's really the most important thing as they embark on the year here that they have to be ready to start building their team and to ultimately be ready from the expansion draft from their end of things as well. Yeah, well, that's a good point.

I feel like a lot of these teams are going to be hoping that, you know, they're going to throw out some teasers here and hope that the Vegas team is going to bite and potentially do them a favor by taking some of these contracts that they don't really want on their cap anymore off of their hands, right? Like there's a bunch of names here that could easily wind up going and the team might not be that sad to actually see them go. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure Dean Lombardi's counting on Dustin Brown getting picked up. But kind of one of the more obvious ones, but I doubt, I guess what to see. I don't know the GM is, but I would be surprised if that would be someone that would interest them at that point.

But, you know, it will be, it's going to be kind of a fascinating process. And, you know, I actually see this as an opportunity. I mean, some teams, I kind of see this falling a few ways. We don't know. It's been 20 years almost since we've seen this happen in the NHL, and the rules around this one are much different. And now there's a salary cap as well, which is kind of an extra layer of complication to the whole thing. But I think some teams are probably not going to worry about the expansion draft enough, that they're just going to assume it's all going to work out.

You're probably at some teams that outthink themselves and almost do too much. And, you know, there's really a room here, I think, because we're going to see different types of player movement just as a result of the expansion draft, you know, for the smart. teams, you know, to find a way to add assets perhaps through trades with teams looking to maybe shuffle some guys out. And, you know, I think it's going to be a wild 12 months. My only slight bit of trepidation about predicting, you know, all this player movement is, you know, I don't think there's enough cap room. It doesn't feel like to go around. And we've seen over a number of years here that it seems difficult for teams to find creative ways to make trades where

the money in matches the money out. But, you know, certainly the industry as a whole, my sense, is bracing for, you know, a pretty crazy year, you know, starting with next week as we head to the entry draft and then get the, you know, the full picture of the expansion draft and the timing of that and, you know, into free agency and everything. So, you know, I think it's going to be, if you're into player movement and transactions, I think it's going to be a very good year to be armchair quarterbacking at all. Well, yeah, and I think it's also going to sort of give team's incentive to discuss trading names that you would otherwise think would be on starters, right? Like, I think that, especially in net where, like the Penguins, for example, the guy like

Mark Andre Fleury, if they can only protect the one goalie, they're pretty clearly going to protect Matt Murray, which leaves them, they're not going to want to just lose Mark Andre Fleury for nothing in his expansion draft. So they're going to be much more likely to pursue a trade there, which they wouldn't have otherwise before. And that's, I think we're going to be the beneficiaries of that because it's going to create a lot more movement and excitement around the league. It's true.

You know, it's funny. I get some mixed signals out of that Pittsburgh situation about, you know, how they'll, you know, proceed with Mark Andre Fleurion and even, you know, kind of have gotten the strong whiff that maybe they don't trade them this summer, that they enter next year with them and count on either trading them before, you know, the trade deadline during the season if, if they're comfortable with Matt Murray and Net or, you know, perhaps even, you know, getting all the way to the expansion draft next year and doing, you know, something that we've seen done in the past expansion drafts with, you know, maybe, you know, offering something to the expansion

team not to take, you know, one of Mark Andre Fleury or Matt Murray, you know, trading them a preemptive pick or prospect. That's one wrinkle that happened in the past there. And, you know, I don't think by any stretch has that decision been made. You know, they probably haven't even worked off the hangovers in Pittsburgh just yet. And we're not even a week since they won the Stanley Cup. And, you know, I really get, don't think that the decision's been made. But I was surprised that how strong the sentiment was leaving, you know, after being around that team, that that they were really contemplating, bringing both guys back to next season. Because one wrinkle that I haven't heard discussed too much with next year is not only do we have a World Cup,

but each team is also getting a one-week buy as part of that season. And the sort of result of all that is probably the most compressed schedule the NHLs ever played with. There's going to be, I'm sure, more back-to-backs for every team than there ever has been in the past. And, you know, having two goaltenders and that kind of scenario was very important, and especially, I think, in a case of Matt Murray, who looks to be a stuff. are at some point, but is yet to play kind of the rigors of a full NHL season. And, you know, if Pittsburgh feels that it has a chance to win again next year, which, you know, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't think that, you know,

heading to this offseason, you know, they might play it a little more conservative with Mark Andre Fleury, you know, than other teams. Whereas I do think, you know, there's a very high, for example, chance that we see Freddie Anderson dealt, you know, really probably to Toronto or Calgary, to the two most obvious options, you know, at some point this summer. Yeah. We'll be tracking all of it. And listen, it's going to be a fun summer.

It's going to be busy and it's going to be full with all sorts of these moves. And hopefully as they happen, we'll be able to get you back on the show to break it all down. Well, I'm going to disappear for two weeks in July. So you won't be able to reach me then. But other than that, I'm always happy to come on with you, my friend. Excellent, man. Well, enjoy the offseason here in between all the new breaking moves and we'll chat soon. Sounds good.

This is the best time of year. So I hope the listeners enjoy it. Okay. Hockey PDOCAST with Dmitri Filippovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Filippovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypedioCast.