The Hockey PDOcast - Filip Forsberg’s Throwback Playing Style, and a Different Offensive Environment in Nashville

Episode Date: December 19, 2023

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Darryl Belfry to break down why Filip Forsberg's unique playing style is such a throwback, and how a different offensive environment in Nashville this year is helping his production match his skill level If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovin. Welcome to the Hockey PEOCast. My name is Dimitri Filippovich and Jordan. He's my good buddy, Gerald Belfry. Daryl. What's going on, man? Excited to get started again with another really exciting player to talk about. I am very fired up. I'm always excited when we have you on here every week. It's always a treat to talk shop and break down players with you. But this one in particular today, our muse, is Philip Forsberg. And anyone that's followed me, on Twitter for any amount of time now,

probably knows that this is one of my favorite players in the game. And so I'm really excited to do this one here with you. A, the Predators and Forsberg himself are playing really well right now. So I think the timing is right. B, I think this is probably a player that doesn't get enough appreciation for just how unique he is in so many ways, especially in today's game where there's so much scale and there's so much star power on display every single night,

but a lot of it is very similar stylistically when you watch it, whereas he is such a throwback in so many ways, so we're going to get into all of that. And so I just think it's the perfect combination of my favorite player, one that's playing well, and one that I think the listeners are going to really, hopefully if they're not already well versus Philip Borsberg, they're going to go back, watch some tape on him,

watch some of his highlights, and really gain an extra appreciation for him. So let's dive right into it. What stands out for you when you watch Forsberg play and sort of what separates him from a lot of the other players in the league? Well, like, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think he does fly under the radar. I mean, he's only had one year where he's been over a point of game. And that, I think, does, it does diminish in a lot of people's radar.

Like, he's just not a guy you're just going to go see because he's not in the top 10 in scoring every year. But in my mind, when I watch him play, I see a lot of the similar things that you're talking about where he is very unique. The biggest unique part of it for him for me is he excels in the stillness, which I think is fascinating because it breaks a lot of rules as it relates to skill execution. So most skill execution is best done in combination. And the more elite the player that you are, the more likely you will be able to have more pieces put in combination or in a very quick sequence with very little skill break. What you see with Forsberg is he has all of that.

He can do a lot of things in combination and he can do things in sequence. But where he's really good is in stillness. So in other words, he'll make a move and then he'll stop, like just freeze. He won't move. He just holds the puck and he stops. This is like so counterintuitive to elite execution because most of the time that skill break leads to, like players use that skill break to make decisions. So it's a real negative because they're like they've done something, they stop. Now they stop movement.

So now they can't, you know, they got to make a decision. Then when they go to make a skill play, the movement chain has been stopped. So the execution quality is down. This guy excels in that break. First, because he doesn't make this, he's not using the skill break to make decisions. He's using the skill break to sink the time. of his next play. So that could be feathering a pass through.

He's just waiting for the passing lane to open a little bit more. Or he's waiting for the defenseman who maybe went down in a slide to slide a little further and then he moves laterally through the guy's stick. Or he freezes the goalie. He hesitates just for a second. And then because the goalie is on his way down, now he's shoot. Like I said, for me, that's so fascinating because whenever someone stops a skill in motion, they stop a skill movement, that's usually a red flag in skill development. But with this guy, it's actually a key execution piece that it really centers his entire skill set.

And I think that's, I love guys like that that break all the rules. And he breaks a lot of them. Well, I think we've spoken in the past about how that's probably, you know, a sign that you are really seeing the game at a different level and operating at a different wavelength, right, when it slows down for you. And I think when we spoke about Kutra, we talked about this in particular, right, where he's almost able to slow everything down to such a level where he can actually make all these decisions. And you're like, wow, I can't believe he was able to process all that. But in reality, he's probably just seeing it at such a different speed than maybe you or I are watching it live or even other. other players that are on the ice with him, right? And so you can say that about Forsberg as well. I think that you mentioned the combination of skills and kind of stacking him in a sequence. I just think that when you watch him play, and we're going to get into this a lot later on in the show, there's just so few defenders that are built and equipped to be able to stop everything he's trying to do, right? Because you have certain defenders. Defenders are more well-rounded

in today's game generally, right? You have to be able to skate at a certain level. you have to be able to handle physicality and have a good stick and all of that. But if you're a bigger defender who maybe relies more on that physicality and strength, he can skate around here or he can make you look silly with his dazzling puck skills. But then if you're a smaller, more fleet of foot defender, he'll put his shoulder down and take it right to you and sort of bully ball you as well, right? And there's just so few players that can basically make you pick your poison and then whoever you throw at him can just beat you in the opposite way,

whereas most guys have one thing they try to do. And so you can probably cater a defense to at least making life a bit difficult for them. Whereas with him, I don't really be on just having like Prime Nicholas Littstrom who can just kind of do everything. I don't really know what you would try to do to kind of get him out of his comfort zone because he's just, he's so comfortable beating you in so many different ways. One of the best parts about him is, and when you said if he's a bit of a throwback, I think you're right, one of the things that he does extremely well is he he can he takes people on one-on-one a lot like he he he's not afraid to go one-on-one and a matter of fact i think he he really relishes it and

when he's feeling really good in his game he's going to take you on one-on-one what i love about his approach to one-on-one like when you if you just watched 30 or 40 of his one-on-one plays in different areas coming out of a corner or off the rush and just took a look and tried to find like what are the commonalities of what it is that he is trying to do what really stands out is he moves on angles and diagonals so he he is like for a lot of times when you go past a defenseman you're trying to get outside of their reach or outside of their stick so you make like a quick move and then you try to get to a point where they can't hinder you in any way. They can't grab you.

They can't hook you. They can't slash you. You're like trying to create separation between you and the defendant. With Forrestberg, he doesn't really try to do that. He's not really trying to get like that separation. What he does is he slices right by you. Like he he slices by your body. So he doesn't mind playing close to you.

He doesn't mind putting the puck just a little bit further ahead. And then to your point, like, he has like, he's so, he is very, he's a big guy that moves really well and can move on these diagonals. So he doesn't really need to get too far ahead of you to have you beat. And I think that's really interesting. The other thing that he does extremely well is he does a lot of really good work with one hand on his stick. So as he's going by you, he will get his one hand off. Doesn't matter which side he can go on the forehand. He'll go to one hand on a stick, his bottom hand, or on the back hand.

Of course, he'll use his top hand. But he's going to use his other hand to push on you or to get his hand in front of you to pull you back. We call it like a chuck or a nudge where he gets that hand, he uses it as a lever. And then he'll propel himself forward. But he'll, he, in the middle of all that, he can pass it. He protects it and holds onto the puck. He can, he can turn while he has one hand on his stick. Like he has a lot of dexterity of skill while he is in physical contact with one hand on his stick.

And so there's like between those two things and his feel for just space. I think that's what improves his feel for space is because he's so good in those areas. that's what stands out in the one-on-ones for me. Well, when I'm playing the most amateur tennis possible, right, just for fun, just getting out there running a little bit, hitting the ball back and forth. I love the strategy, but I'll have watching, obviously, pro tennis, but I'm not very good myself, but I'm left-handed by nature.

Like, I write with my left, but my right hand is sort of my power hand, right? So, like, if I'm shooting a puck or hitting a tennis ball with a racket, I'm using my right hand. But then sometimes if someone hits it to my left, I'll like put my racket just in my left hand and sort of just to max out my reach and try to get it back in a defensive return. And you see Forsberg do that where he's a right shot. He takes the stick just with his left hand, reaches out. And then while engaged in a one-on-one battle or physical contact, I've seen him take the stick and wrap it around his back and switch hands in one motion and keep playing the puck. And I don't really recall ever seeing a player do that.

And he's done that already a few times. He just does it in such a smooth fashion like everything else he does. You mentioned the sort of angles he takes, how he brings the puck into you. What I was thinking and watching him play is that if, I mean, he's such a master of sort of leverage and like that defensive triangle and taking advantage of that. But whether it's along the boards with his reverse checks or if he's coming at you off the rush, if you reach at all against him and lean forward, it's game over for you, right?

Because, and it must be so enticing. He's got the puck there. He's playing with it off the rush. You, as a defender, I want to go poke it away. As soon as you do that, he brings the puck into your skates and he's got the inside track and then it's over for you. And then amongst the boards, I mean, you know, when we talk about throwbacks, he's the best player in the league right now

at those reverse checks. And he does it in such a functional manner, right? That's what I keep coming back to with him. The physicality, displays is all so functional. He's not hitting just for the sake of hitting or finishing a check, right? He always does it to either protect the puck and kind of create space for himself by pushing you off or actually knocking you off the puck and trying to retrieve possession. And then he's got you on his back pocket. He goes behind the net. He's operating. He's looking for a pass. It's also by design and it's

all within the flow of a game, right? And I think that is so unique to him because other than maybe a Nathan McKinnon, I can't really think of a true star player. in today's game that's so willingly accepts contact and also initiates it, right? Like he's looking to get into that one-on-one physical battle with you and that is just so rare for a player that has so much skill he has, right? I don't think anyone would blame him if he just played a pure

skill perimeter game and tried to pick his spots and weaved in and out but instead he's always the one starting a lot of these confrontations. Yeah, he's so comfortable in very tight spaces, both with his stick handling and just how physical he is. What I think is really interesting about him as well is the half wall is typically now in today's game, it's a bit of a graveyard for offense. It's very difficult to generate offense off the half wall, unless you're passing off the half wall.

But to like, back in the day, I would actively teach players to come up from the corner, get to the hash marks, the weight shift crossover, in between two checks, get off the wall, threaten the dot and start like making plays and offense from the dot. And that just became near impossible to do that on a consistent basis. It's not easy to threaten off the half wall carrying the puck like that. Forsberg is one of a handful of guys who will attack you off the half wall and bring the puck off the wall himself to come and threaten that space. He'll leave a defenseman or a defensive forward on the wall and attack. And it takes the reason why it's difficult is because there's so many layers of defenders

that you can't just beat one guy and then now you have a free pass to the net. You're going to beat one guy. And as soon as you beat that guy, as you're beating him, of course, you usually have to, you know, you got the puck maybe exposed a little bit because that's where you needed to protect it from that guy. Well, now you've exposed it to the shrunk now defensive zone. So now the high defensive forward is just taking the puck and he's gone the other way. Or, you know, their next layer of guy who might be their defensive forward or the next defenseman who's also shrinking the rank because he's now also that much closer than they've ever been. in. So now you've exposed the puck in some way and now they take it and go the other way. Or you get

hit and now that it creates all the problem. So there's just a lot of reasons why it's very difficult to create off the half wall by you carrying the puck or beating someone off the half wall. And Forrestberg, like I said, is one of those guys that can do it consistently. And there's a couple of reasons why he's very good at it. One, he is, he is very difficult to, contain physically because he's so comfortable in those spaces. He can handle the puck with one hand. He will reverse hit you, like you said. He uses his legs really well in terms of puck protection.

So as he comes off, he'll use his leg so he can keep as the way of protecting the puck to free up both of his hands to be able to handle it. He can make a lot of plays close to his feet and close to your feet. As you're the defender, he can do that. and he can pass. And most impressive is in the moments in which he's coming off the wall, he can change the line. So he can all of a sudden start going up towards the blue line,

or he can go down towards the goal line, which is a very unique feature when you're attacking that space with a lot of physical contact. So I think, like I said, generally attacking the puck off the half wall is a bit of a graveyard. yard for offense where it used to be pretty plentiful for many players. He seems to be able to find those creases because of all the things that we've been talking about.

And that's what really makes him really unique player in today's game. Well, and part of why he's able to do that is, is I have my notes here just how sort of seamlessly he can toggle between those different skill archetypes that I mentioned, right? like he'll hit you with the brute force and sort of get off the wall into that inside position and then he'll instantly turn into like a creative soft touch and do something that only a few players in the world can from like a skill level and the ability to just do that in the same sequence is almost like it's it's unfair as a defender right like you're just not prepared

or programmed to deal with that it's really i mean he's got such an attacking mentality he's constantly trying to get to the inside and that works really well with this Predators, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about sort of the changes they've made this season, right? Because they were such a fascinating case study for me heading into the year because they were so miserable offensively last year. They had a lot of injuries. But we typically think with the personnel they have and the way they've played over the years, they're not exactly a high-octane offense, right? We kind of think of them as more methodical, leaning on their defensemen and UC Soros and trying to grind out games.

And last year, they were 28th in offense. And then this summer they go, they bring in Andrew Burnett. who got a lot of praise for the work he did in his two previous stops in Florida, New Jersey offensively. But at the same time, I was a bit wary of sort of crowding him as the new offensive mastermind behind the bench, just because you looked at the personnel, those two teams had.

And it's like, all right, well, he's working with some pretty good players here, right? If you've got the horses that the Panthers and the devils do, a lot of people can probably look pretty smart offensively just by proximity to those guys.

And so he obviously didn't have the luxury of that coming to this Nashville team. now they bring in Ryan O'Reilly, who, you know, with all due respect to like 2016, Ryan Johansson, even at this age, might be the best center that Forsberg's gotten to play with. And they've totally changed the type of team they are offensively now. They haven't necessarily become a modern rush team. Like, they still don't attack that much off the rush

when Forsberg's not out there. But they activate their defensemen so much more in the offensive zone. They play so much more of that five-man attack in the O zone. And you can just see it in all the, the numbers where, you know, they're one of the best teams in the league at, at cycling the puck, at keeping it in the offensive zone, creating rebounds, and then forechecking because they're already down low and aggressively attacking and defending. And it's just, it's almost night and day offensively in terms of environment. And that's something that Forsberg hasn't really

beyond those like prime years when they made the cup final and were really, really good for a couple years. He hasn't had that luxury either. I think that is part of why, you know, he's gone a bit underappreciated or under talked about and that's why his points have been somewhat suppressed right and so i think it's all coming together for him this year and that's why it's really cool to see and it's it's awesome to see like the immediate dividends that some of these changes they made in the offseason have already paid for them yeah when i think of Nashville and the third kind of arc i guess for lack of a better term between the last couple of years and then now this year one of the things it stands out to be and I've long wondered about this like I'm a huge Roman Yossi fan um I think

your Roman Yossi is an extremely unique player in today's game he does things very differently and the way in which he he there were years where he would lead the team in zone entries which is completely crazy and I wondered if that was a suppression for a guy like Forbesberg was was the way in which Yosey played, did that have a negative effect on a guy like Foresburg? And the reason I say that is because if Yosey is coming from the defense event, jumping up into the rush, getting the puck on an exit, carrying the puck between the two blue lines,

and then also carrying the entry before he moves the puck, he's taking the puck out of the hands of the rush for a guy like Foresburg, a certain percentage of time. And forwards, most often skill forwards, they want you as a defenseman. You can bring it into the neutral zone if you like, but then you got to, like, we need to move it to us when we have speed

so that we can then do what we do. And with Yossi being so aggressive off the rush and being able to create one rush chance after the next from his perspective, I wondered if that had a negative effect on, because you can't generate consistent offense. It's difficult. Sorry, you can't.

It's very difficult to create consistent offense if you don't have a fairly prolific rush game. And I felt, I wondered if Yossi's success was in fact a ceiling, creating a ceiling on Forsberg. And then when I, so that was a thought that I had carried for a couple of years. And then now, um, as I watched this team, I think that. I see Yossi playing differently as well. And I'm wondering if that is a brunette effect because I don't think I've ever seen Forsburg carry the puck through the neutral zone and make plays on entries as much to the volume that he's doing this year, which is a major, which facilitates his offense.

It does help him and helps the group in general. And when they didn't have that or they didn't feel like they had that, and Yosey took on that responsibility. I just wonder how much of effect that, how much of it affect that have. It definitely has. I think I was watching a Predators broadcast recently and they were actually talking about this

where they asked Roman Yose kind of what the changes were under Brunette and sort of conversations he's had with him and what he wants from him. And obviously it's the, you know, you've been very successful playing this way in NHL. I don't want you to go away from that. But one thing he was asking him to do was getting the puck up the ice,

more quickly, right? And by actually trying to pass it up and allow his forwards to do some of the heavy lifting as opposed to do it in himself. And I think you're 100% right there where it might be good for the individual and you can create individual offense, right? A lot of zone entries, a lot of shot opportunities. And then eventually that's just going to lead to points because you always have the puck on your stick. But it might not necessarily be good for the teams like overall offensive health, right? It kind of slows you down. It makes you one dimensional. It's really tough to consistently attack that way in today's game. So I think you're banging on there where by delegating more of it sort of forwards and

sort of playing that way stylistically, I think it's opened up a lot for this team. And you can see that, right? They're up to, you know, their middle of the pack offense will be right now in terms of goals. I think they're 15th. But going from 28th to 15th in one year when you have UC Soros as your goalie, like that'll play in today's game, right? That's certainly good enough at this point.

And then you look, I've got from the sport logic, their seventh and expected goals generated, 10th in slot shots, seventh in inner slot shots, 10th in offensive zone possession, their first and four check chances, third in cycle and third in rush chances, or rebound chances, sorry. And so that just shows you like kind of how they're attacking and just how different it is this year. And so I think part of that as well is, you know, you watch Forsberg playing with O'Reilly, and they have been so dominant below the dots as well. They're just constantly retrieving the puck, cycling it down there, getting second, third, fourth opportunities from the same shift.

And that's not something that Forsberg's really had the benefit of having either, right? Like, eventually, you'll see what give him the puck and you'd have an opportunity off the rush. And if he didn't score, and sometimes he would because he's just so good and he'd create that highlight play that we all see. But then there'd be all the other times where nothing would come of it. And then they just have to go back and defend. And in this case, all of a sudden now you're giving. getting these additional opportunities in the same shifts. And that's part of why I think he's having more offensive success as well.

Yeah, I think in just staying with the Yosi theme, like Yosey was always really good with step-bys at the offensive blue line as well. Like the puck would go low to high. For the longest time, I think even from for sure during the Labelette days and then maybe even stretching further out, they were a real shot volume team. from literally everywhere very much low to high point shot and then you'd see like yosi would step by defensive forwards and he would get into high danger spots and shoot and so then you're you're

playing off rebounds and such and this year i don't see the same thing with yosie i see him he shoots the puck from the top but he also will move it into seams or make passes to the interior and you know I do think that those are factors. The Ryan O'Reilly effect, I don't think, can be understated. I think I didn't really have a great appreciation for Ryan O'Reilly. I thought it was a little, like my personal opinion was I thought he was a little overblown when he was in St. Louis, especially when the year that they won the cup. But when I saw him and spend a little time with him in Toronto,

I thought I'd come to really understand a little bit more about who this guy is. And then when he came to Nashville and seeing his start, I immediately went to go watch a lot of his shifts because I just wanted to see a little bit more. And he has been phenomenal. And he's so good at, he doesn't try to do too much through the neutral zone. He will give the puck.

And to have a guy like a horse like a horse bird to give the puck to carry pucks through the neutral zone. He'll retrieve pox. He's extremely good around the net. He's got a very good stick. But what he's very good. that I find is he's got a great, like he retrieves a puck and he makes a five foot, 10 foot pass. And then he creates space and opportunity for you in other ways. And he's got an

extremely high IQ around the, like that below the dots to the back wall. The O'Reilly effect is something because he does, he sets picks and screens and he makes plays and he has, He does a lot of things that a guy like Foresburg would really be able to leverage. He can get to the net, spin off the defenseman and have a stick on the back door. He can, he does those things that a player like Foresberg would want to see. He wants, he, he, Foresberg's coming off the half wall. He beats a guy. He's, you know, trying to figure out which space he wants to attack.

Does he want to go hide? Does he want to go low? And then all of a sudden he sees. like sees O'Reilly spin to the back door, well then all of a sudden he just puts it right on the back door to him. Like he needs, you need guys that will move in purposeful ways and to be able to make those types of plays.

And that's what a guy like O'Reilly is so good at. He's good at the nuance of positioning in the offensive zone. And he knows timing of when to be where. And for a guy like Foresberg, who he's really good at that, like I call it, the half court offense and coming off the half wall and the back walls. I mean,

that effect is going to be huge playing with a guy like that. I don't think he's played with a guy quite like a guy like O'Reilly and what kinds of things that he can do. Yeah, I mean, he's very similar to the effect that we spoke about last week with what Mark Stone does for Eichel as well, right, where he's a bit of a space creator and a possession extender. And despite not being traditionally, fast, he allows a faster, more skilled guy to speed up his game because all of a sudden now

he gets the puck quickly, throws it into open space, the other guy can go get it and all of a sudden attack now where he otherwise might not have been able to. And so, yeah, it's really fun watching them operate and play off with each other. You know, a lot of these clips, like you just watch it. And I think what's happened to Forsberg for years is like it was kind of a backhanded compliment where for a while, you know, he had a good claim for being like the most skilled guy to never score 40 goals and he scores 40 goals a couple years ago. Then it's, oh, the most skilled guy to never have 80 points or 90 points. And it sounds like a backhanded compliment, but I think in reality, it's so difficult to get to that level offensively to accumulate that many points because

it's not just enough to be very skilled and talented. You also need to get a bit lucky. You need to stay healthy. You need to have a positive environment where you can bank a few points where you might not have necessarily done it all yourself. And a lot of these clips you watch it, and Forsberg is just able to think the game at such a higher, more nuanced level. And sometimes he passes it to a teammate, and they're almost, like, startled and surprised that the puck came to them. And then they have to, like, settle the puck and slow it down and shoot it.

And by then the goalie's been able to recover. And that might not have been the case if he was playing on maybe a more skilled team. Now O'Reilly, at least around the net, is able to convert on a lot of those. Forsberg shoots that he's able to clean up the rebound, as you see there. There's a lot of stuff where he helps him offensively as well beyond just the defensive work and the possession stuff. And so I think you hit the nail on the head there. You can't really – you need to pay attention to what the impact that Ryle and Raleigh's addition, along with the brunette hiring, has had for Forsberg's offensive game.

I just don't think that it's a coincidence whatsoever. Forrestberg has shown these types of skills all throughout his career. And there's been, to your point, many highlight situations where he's been able to do so, all of the things that we've talked about. But the frequency at which he's able to do things now is much higher because, one, they spend more time in the offensive zone. Two, you know, the Yossi evolution and through the brunette hire, I think, is a major factor. O'Reilly coming in.

I think that the style of play, and, you know, I talk about this a lot. because I think it's a major thing. Style of play in its impact on players and whether or not the style of play suits the personnel in which you have is something that just cannot, I don't think, be understated. It is a major effect. And having a guy like Brunette come in

and stitch the pieces together, make a couple of changes to facilitate what needs to happen to get the puck to where it needs to get to, to the hands it needs to get. into to be able to make the plays. Like that, that is necessary because it's so hard to overcome a situation that's not aligned well.

If it's not aligned well where the style of play doesn't really suit the players well, the players that you're playing with or the way in which the team wants to play doesn't have a lot of congruence to the types of things that you can do and your assets. it has a draining effect. And I've wondered that with Forsberg for the longest time and whether or not, like, he just, he's like a great skill. He's got a great skill player. He has a lot of diversity of skill.

But it just didn't, like he just couldn't break through. Like, you had that one year where he really took off. But it just didn't feel like he was going to take that next step. And here he is again. There was a couple of notes that I had on him. one he has extremely heavy stick and you you alluded to this earlier and I just wanted to touch on it more because I think it's important one of the big aspects of skill now is because players are so good defensively there's a lot more like the stick to stick to puck is now followed

by contact much more frequently so you have to be able to play in contact maybe a lot more than maybe you would have before as a skill player. You have to be able to be heavy on your stick where someone's not going to stick lift you or just casually just like knock your hands and knock the puck off your stick. So you're heavy there. But yet still have the softness of being able to make plays and to pull the puck closely. And that is, it's an oxymoron in a lot of ways. Like it's not those two things should not be coexist.

You shouldn't be able to be extremely heavy on. your stick, but yet also be very soft and supple and be able to make all these like really skill plays. But that is really the definition now of the guys who have those set of skills. So the Kutrovs, the Matthews, the Eichols, the McKinnon, Rantan, and now like a guy like Forsberg that we're talking about, that is a separate. The other guy that really stands out with this is a dry cycle. It has that real pure heaviness on a puck where it's like you cannot, you're not going to take the puck from them.

But then yet be able in contact to be able to make the subtle little plays. And I have a player development perspective, I've always, it's been a question of like trying to develop that more and more people. And it's really difficult to do. And so players that have it, I think I have a real affinity for. because I know how difficult that skill is to acquire. Well, how do you acquire it? Is it just a matter of like, like, because I imagine part of it is just being freakishly strong, but also doing so.

That's a big part of it. Preserving the touch, right, without necessarily going too far of the other extreme. And then all of a sudden losing some of the some of the finesse maybe that you might have otherwise had. So it's understanding when to be what. That's a feel, right? So at some points, you need to be very heavy and lose all of that dexterity. but then in a moment's notice just gradually like ease that off that pressure on your stick off

to make the play that you need and understand like the where the weight needs to be at what time and developing that feel and I think the development of it comes from creating situations in which there's a need to be one and then immediately followed by the other and in in the reverse be very be very supple and very loose and be very clean with the puck and then all of a sudden have to get heavy on it and then then in a moment be able to get uh ease that tension and then be able to make play because the the the antithesis of skill is tension you don't we we say it all the time like you see it a lot of in players who are coming from like lower leagues to come into the NHL.

One of the things that you notice is that they carry a lot of tension in their upper body, which restricts their ability to move at the way in which you need to move to be skilled in this league. You can't carry a lot of tension. But yet, it's a very physical league. And there's people on you all the time. So you have to be able to be strong, which inherently carries. some tension. So what is it? Do we need to be tense? Do you have to carry that tension? Or do you

have to have no tension? But one, those things shouldn't coexist, but they do. And the players who are able to do that best tend to do really well from a skill perspective in this league now. And this is just another guy who has that in his, it is in his repertoire and the way in which he moves, particularly when we talk about the half wall, the back wall, you really, you can see it. You can see him heavy, strong on a puck. And then in a second, he's just light, light loose. And then next thing, you know, it's a light saucer pass over a stick that lands flat for a guy.

And the puck traveled maybe four feet, lands perfect, the guy shoots it in. Like that's that's really high level of skill. I mean, you also see it around the net. I can think of three instances off the top of my head, which I think we've seen here in the clips with the season where he was in front of the net where there's obviously the most traffic, right? You're most likely to eat a cross check or eat some sort of a physical contact from a defender trying to box you out or push you away from the net.

And there was one goal against the ducks where he like, he tips it to himself, then bats it up in the air. again and then bats it into the net like like you see from crosbie he had the he had the tie and goal against the avalanche where he he makes a pass and works his way down to the net and bats it in at the side of the goal and then he had the play against calgary which wound up being legal because i guess he didn't wind up actually touching it so if he had executed it properly it would have been blown dead i think but he shoots it he retrieves the rebound behind the net in his glove and then he threw it in front of the net and tried to wrap around and bat it

on the other side. And obviously that that wouldn't have counted, but it landed and then it went to a teammate and they wound up shooting and scoring. And so they gave them the assist on it. But just the idea of just in that type of a tense environment, which you're talking about and describing, to display that level of skill and creativity is what separates these truly elite guys, right? Because it must be so preoccupying to just hold your ground basically and not get pushed

out. And instead, you're not only doing so and preserving yourself there. but you're also then trying to execute this supremely high level play, which even in practice by yourself in an empty rank would probably be difficult to pull off. And there you are in a game setting doing it. So I just wanted to shout that out as well because I think those little instances there kind of give you a peek into why I love this guy so much. And why I think he's such a special player.

Well, you touched on it. And I think that this was one of the things that I was questioned about him was, I felt like he had he was imaginative. offensively. And that's been something that he's had his whole career. You've seen him do a lot of imaginative things. Just in the way in which he creates shots, some of his one-on-one play, how he uses it, he will often put the puck between his legs to pass it. He will, he has an imagination of his use of skill. And sometimes it just doesn't like fly with others who are to your point. They're not expecting, like the last thing they're expecting when the puck is with your stick is between

your legs is that you're going to pass it and it's going to land on my stick. And then all of a sudden it's there. It was difficult. And I think he went through some times in which players just didn't weren't, weren't able to understand exactly how he wanted to play. And now he's getting there and he's able to play with guys. I think that have a little more understanding. And over the years, people start to get you more too. Like, that's another thing. A guy with this much depth of skill. It takes a while to really understand how he wants to play and where he wants to play. And I think that that's, I think it's really interesting. The other piece I think that's important is I think whenever I think of Forsberg, one of the last skills that pops out in my mind

when I have an impression of him is his shot. Yet he has an outstanding shot with a very good release and a very like not unique release necessarily but it definitely has a lot of modern properties to it like he cups over the toe with a stick and he can release it quickly doesn't need a lot of space he has that like um i call it like the bruce lee one inch punch type of fact where the puck he can hold it on his forehand and without any tell he can just release it so he's not like he has it on his forehand, then he's got to stick handle it back into the shooting position and then shoot it. He has it on his forehand. It's really in a dual threat position where he could, really a triple threat position where he could move it to beat you one on one. He could pass it or he

could shoot it. And he has that ability to do that with no tell. And that's a high, high level skill that he has that I'm amazed when I was what we you know we've talked about doing uh you know going and doing a session a segment with him and then I've done a lot of studying of him and and O'Reilly over the course this year and I just was surprised that I didn't acknowledge or that it didn't jump out in like the top four or five skills of what I thought he was really good at that his shot didn't wasn't that when really it really is it is it is a true weapon he has an outstanding shot it is i mean he's got 16 goals and 31 games this year which is top 10 and yet he i think he had won in his first 10 games so that puts you up to a 15 in his last 21 he's fourth in

the league in shot attempts pasturnacutrov and mcken are the only guys who have taken more raw volume of shots than him so he's certainly getting the opportunities and we when we talked about Eichol last week, we sort of referenced how as a right shot, he really likes coming down his off wing and then working towards the middle to open up that space. When I watch Forsbrick, it's almost the opposite where he seems to like coming down his strong side and still working his way to the middle though. And he does that sort of drag move, right, where you see him wait out a defender patiently and then he'll rip it or he'll send a pass across the ice for a tap into a teammate. I mean, he's got so many tricks in his bag.

You mentioned the imagination, like the number of times you watch him just sort of pass the puck to himself, right? He like throws it into open space and goes and gets it and winds up drawing a penalty in the process or kicking it to himself in motion. Like a lot of these little tricks are just what makes him so fun. And the final note I had on his shot was he's on a solo mission to keep the kind of walk-in slap shot alive as well. Like one of the few players who's still coming down the wing likes to just cock it back and rip it as art as he can, which is becoming a dying breed, of course, and you very rarely see that.

But he's got that in his bag of tricks as well. So that's pretty fun. I mean, he really, when we mentioned a throwback, like he is almost like your answer to what a player from the 90s coming out of a time capsule and then getting to benefit from all the advancements from stick technology and training and skill development and stuff like that would look like, right? Because a lot of these tendencies we're mentioning

are stuff from a bygone era where very few modern players do it or utilize it to the extent he does. But then he's also got all the other stuff where all these young guys coming into the game are flourishing and showing all these crazy moves. He's got that as well as a 29-year-old. It's like this nice sort of convergence of two entirely different eras of hockey, and he's found somehow the sweet middle between the two of them.

Well, like you said, I think he's a guy who would have really thrived in the hook era, hook and hold era as well, like the New Jersey Devils, you know, clogging up the neutral zone and just hooking you and holding you and grabbing your arms and stuff. Like he just, he thrives in that real tight space and he doesn't mind the physical contact and he can control the puck with a lot of different types of stresses and duress. And I agree. I think he is, he kind of is that guy that if he was like, who could play well in that in those areas and also be good in this area? He's definitely, he's definitely that guy. One of the other aspects that I think is really interesting is for a guy who is as, you know, is as heavy and is strong and likes to play in contact,

he skates very well, you know, like, and he has a lot of tools. He'll go, he'll use. his inside edges, he pivots to pass, he pivots to shoot. He plays, as much as I love how he plays in the stillness between two skills, he has an ability to move very subtly. His weight shift is one of the best in the NHL, especially when he goes from backhand to forehand. I find he's exceptionally well, exceptionally good.

He understands spacing incredibly well. So one of the things that was interesting when we talk about Eichel, I thought Eichel with his shot, one of the development pieces for him to go to the next level, was the understanding the spacing of the shot. That's one thing that I think that this Forsberg does exceptionally well. I think his feel for spacing and where he is in the proximity between him and the net and his feel for where people are around him,

I think is one of his best skills. I think he's exceptional there as well. I think one of his best skills is doing all of this stuff we've talked about today, but doing it in such a cool and stylish way. And I mean, one of the few guys uniquely equipped to pull off when we're talking about throwbacks, that mustache as well. I mean, really just putting it all together there. I mean, on base for 95 points, right?

we mentioned the team started 5 and 10. They're 18 and 13 now, so they've been on quite a hot spell themselves. And so it's nice that we got to do this because a lot of the skills that you see and that have been on display for years are finally now meeting the production as well. And so that's really fun.

And so hopefully our appreciation of the player and his skill set came through in this episode. And if you haven't dabbled in Forrestbrook highlights yet, I really going to watch them play yet. I highly recommend it because there's so much fun stuff there to unpack. All right, Daryl. next week you and I are going to or maybe the week after we'll see how the holiday programming goes but I think our plan is to do David Pastor Neck next and then we've got a few others that we want to

talk about so I'm looking forward to that I'll let you quickly plug some stuff on the way out is there anything you want the listeners to check out yeah the biggest thing is next spring we'll have our third coaches clinic that goes in at the end of June in Florida and that might if you guys love to hear me talk about in different skill development stuff. We actually go on the ice as well and do some skill development stuff. That's a good one. And then we have our kids camps in July as well for players that are like 13 and older. So that might be something to check out for us.

Okay. Well, that's it for today's episode of the Hockey PEOCast. I'm really glad we finally got to do Filipovich Forsberg as the subject of our weekly deep dives here. I was anticipating this one for a while, and I think it delivered. If you enjoy these shows that we do with Daryl every week, I recommend going to the Hockey-Pediocast YouTube channel as well and adding to the experience by watching along with us. Getting to actually see some of the concepts we're talking about in action

while watching Forsberg's Game Taped for this one, I think, is a really useful experience for you. If you're just trying to get more out of it, I think it adds an extra layer to this show that really sets it apart, and I'm really proud of the work we do there. so please check that out. And while you're there, you can help us out by subscribing to the channel,

liking the episodes, and commenting as well. All of that stuff really helps us out and it's going to make sure that we keep doing these on a regular basis. My one final plug is for the PEOCast Discord channel. I teased that we were doing this episode in there a couple days ago, and I had a few people ask

if we'd be referencing Philip Outsch-Fordsberg and his glorious mustache along the way. And sure enough, I found a way to work both those in for you near the end. If you're not part of the community yet, You should definitely jump in there. There's a lot of great conversation on nightly basis,

and we're going to keep using it more and more moving forward for the show's purposes. So the invite link is in the show notes, and I'll see you there. Okay. Thank you for listening to our PDOCast today, and we'll be back with a couple more episodes here before the holidays with more of the PDOCAST streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.