The Hockey PDOcast - Film Club - Mikey Anderson's Defense and Kevin Fiala's Offense

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

Jesse Marshall joins Dimitri to break down why Mikey Anderson is one of the most underrated players in the NHL, how Kevin Fiala's game has grown, and what they're seeing on the tape for both of them.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty.  The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitry Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey-Pedio cast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich, and joining me is my buddy, Jesse Marshall. Jesse, what's going on, man? Good to be here, as always. It's the return of the film club. So far for those keeping track, we do these about once a month or so.

We've done Ciney Crosby, we've done Josh Morrissey. We've done Timo Meyer. Jason Robertson. Jason Robertson, it's pretty hallowed ground. I successfully, at least for the time being, fought off your advances to do Will Carrier next. So I don't know if that one would have kept up with the theme, although he is having a fantastic season for his role.

But one we are going to do today is a player near and dear to each of our hearts and someone who deserves significantly more attention nationally than they get. And it's our pal Mikey Anderson. So I'll give you the floor here, let the listeners know why. we're talking about Mikey Anderson today. Well, I mean, the deal first and foremost, right? So above all else, and he gets rewarded with a lengthy contract, which I thought was really good for a player of his role,

which is like, you know, probably I think the modern day version of what a, you know, shut down defenseman sort of looks like, right? I think there's merit to the argument that, you know, oh, he's limited with the puck, you know, he can and cannot. do, you know, these different things that you see like the kale McCars of the world do. And I guess my argument is just, who cares, you know, I think he look at his, you know, he came on my radar because, you know, in the Penguins Kings game, he goaded Sidney Crosby into a misconduct, right? But, but even, you know, before that, I think it was more of like a,

you know, when you see him play, you're like, wow, this guy's really good. I, I, and you look at the data, especially through Corey's, you know, all three zones project which paints, you know, a beautiful picture of, you know, defending zones and things of that nature, he's stellar. In fact, you know, the list of players that are, you know, protecting the blue line as well as him in the games that Corey's track is literally a handful. Literally. He's that good. Not a household name because, you know, again, lacks some of the flash and flare you get, I think, with the offensive side. But if you wanted to teach kids, Let's put it this way.

If you wanted to teach kids, what is gap control? What should you do as a defenseman? When you have an opposing forward coming towards you, what should the distance away from that forward be per area of ice? How should you use your stick to attack that forward? How should you use your body? Go sit them down in front of a tape of Mikey Anderson, hit play on it, and there's your class.

It's so funny. to me when the data and the video align and we talk about how good he is at defending the zone Dimitri look at the heat map from Micah at hockey viz of what the kings do and look at the left side of the ice it's a there's nothing happening it's a wasteland it's a wasteland that's you know when you see something like that it makes your you know you're going to go into the video and find something right away because those are gross impact And I think for me it was just, it is, it is really difficult to get around him, whether you're fast, big, it doesn't really matter what your skill set is as a forward. You know, we talk about this all the time.

What are the two most precious commodities for forwards in the National Occup League, time and space, right? You don't have any when you're trying Mikey Anderson on his side. It's just the timing of when he, he makes his move on you. I think there's a natural slowing down that occurs when you have an aggressive stick out defense and with a long reach who can skate. As an opposing forward, I don't care if you've got 150 miles an hour at the red line.

You know, that's going to check. You're going to check yourself a little bit before you get up on that, especially if you see your teammate get laid out. You might think like, oh, this maybe is not a good idea. So it's just, you know, from positioning on down, I don't know, and I guess I'll pose this question to you, I just don't know how many defensemen of his ilk are doing it at his level right now. Yeah.

No, that's a really, I mean, there's so much to unpack there. I did have in my notes here as on my list of accomplishments of his this season is drove Sidney Crosby to the brink of lunacy. And I think, you know, a part of that was an accumulation of, I think they were losing six nothing at the time. I think part of it was Crosby as a front row seat and watching this mess of a penguin's team at night in a night out this season. But I went back and rewatch it today

before we recorded actually because I wanted to shift by shift basis just kind of see what was going on throughout the game. And there were like a handful of time sprinkled throughout before the final misconduct where the puck would move away and then like Anderson would like just sneak in like a little cross check

or a little like letting him know he's there throughout the game. And it's not something that Crosby's used to that by now in his career, of course, a player of a stature and especially how physically he plays himself. But Anderson is so good at doing exactly that, not only off the rush. I think typically we think of these players as, all right,

they defend in space really well, but he takes away your time and space, like in small areas along the boards and stuff as well. And it's kind of like, you always know Mikey Anderson is there at all times, and that must be such an annoying thing to have to deal with throughout a game, especially when things aren't going your way on the scoreboard.

And I think that kind of explains, you know, happen on that play. I think that was kind of what led to that moment. A hundred percent. Here's something else that I think is unique is how far he will allow his area of influence to extend once the puck's in the defensive zone. Right. So once the other teams established possession, you know, we have a tendency, I think, at least I do as a child of the 90s era of hockey to think of the hatchers, like your stereotypical stay-at-home defense or they're like clubbing you over the head.

And their area of influence is limited really to like in front of the crease, right? And clearing that area out and screening the goalie while doing so. Like let's be honest. Like they're screening their own goalie more often than they were actually moving someone out of the way. When you look at Mike Anish, like he'll harass forwards up into the circle and beyond. And I what I like is once he, I think as a game moves on, Once he gets a read on your cycle and he gets a sense of what you're going to do, he'll jump it. Yeah.

Right. Like he'll move up in your rotation and pinch off your next pass. Well, now what are you going to do? Well, you probably could eat the puck along the wall, wait for help, hesitate. You know, you've now, your rhythm's gone. You've lost that time and space commodity too. So it's that aggressive nature. It's not just limited to this one area of the ice.

Like it permeates throughout. And I think if you're a forward, you're probably used to defensemen peeling off you at a certain point, right? And you can kind of use like that high circle area, Dimitri, is a reset zone. Saying like no one's going to bother me. That's a safe space. Yeah. No, it's not. Like he'll go up there and press you there.

And you're not going to make a pass to beat them. You know, you don't, you know, your rhythm's completely disrupted. It's just a, you know, for me, it's a great way to gain opportunities to clear the zone that probably didn't exist if you had just been past. passive and kept your interior and protected your net front and let the other team, you know, move the puck around out there. Yeah, no, that's a great point. His ability to sort of pick up on patterns over the course of a game and then and then jump those routes, so to speak, kind of like a great, like safety or something, right?

Like tracking the quarterback's eyes. He really stuck out to me last postseason. I know it was only seven games because they got eliminated by the Oilers in round one. And, you know, like David and Drecito ultimately got there as like McDavid, especially towards the end of that series, just really, you know, took over the best player on Earth and just will the Oilers the victory. And I think get 14 points in the seven games by the end of it. But a lot of that damage came on the power play, similar to Dreisel.

Mikey Anderson in that series, you know, he didn't have Drew Dowdy as his most regular partner who was out for those games. And he took on that assignment. He played about half of his minutes at 5-1-5 against those guys. And I was just blown away by his ability to, kind of like stand his ground and absorb oncoming speed, especially when going up against the guy like me, David. Like sometimes we see defensemen get just so overwhelmed by how quickly he's moving.

And if you don't have the timing in place to sort of cut that off and angle him before he, he has the full ice to operate with, it's over for you. Like you're at his mercy. And Anderson did such a good job of, with his timing, kind of like just jumping up and knocking the puck off a stick a little bit to throw him off rhythm or just getting in his way.

And it was all this like a little sneaky defensive stuff that he did. And I tracked all those games. And he was one of my breakout stars like him and someone like Martin Farivari for similar reasons for the capitals are like two players who are sort of these modern defensive defensemen where they don't put up points. They don't particularly have a lot of creativity to their game with a puck on their stick. But they move well.

They defend very proactively. And they do all, they check all these boxes that I think you and I are looking for when watching these games in terms of like what do you do on the ice to generate these defensive results and so i was just blown away watching and seeing like how he defended against some of the best players in the world uh that's great a great point and i so he seems to have the sense to your point of knowing when like that zenith moment for a forward is right so like when they're approaching that blue line whether it's going to be passing it to a teammate playing it off the wall dumping it

whatever it is. He seems to have that knowledge of when that moment is coming. And he never, that I've seen, I don't use never, you rarely see him telegraph his stick work, right? I think it's super surgical. I think he keeps his stick down a lot. So it's organically in the way for a lot of moments that it's, you know, it's in a good spot to be a nuisance to begin with. But then beyond that, he's quick with it. And like, you know, I posted a couple of clips on. McKean's when I did a video analysis of him, of him, you know, following these forwards around in the cycle and then, you know, boom, stick down, stolen puck back the other way. No one sees this stuff coming.

You know, I think defensemen that are less sure of themselves, Demetri, telegraph those kind of moves, you know, their posture changes. They lean forward. They get their arm, their arm lengthens a bit, right? Whatever it is, you almost get the sense of you know it's coming. It's always very surprising with him, right? So it's a combination of the sort of innate sense of when this stuff is coming, I think combined with, you know, a quick, really surgical like set of hands and how he can dispossess people from the puck. And then we have to give a shout.

You know, I know that and I, you know, hitting in hockey is, you know, sometimes wasteful. Right. You and I both know that. There's physicality for the sense of physicality. That's a lot of that finishing the check stuff, Dmitri is what I'm talking about, right? Where the plays on the other side of the ice and you're just, you know, being physical.

He really does do a good job of separating people from Puck. Again, at that zenith moment of, you know, he gets that sense you're trying to make a move on him. It's up and into you, right? You can't do that.

And I'm going to keep going back to this as long as we're going to have the Mikey Anderson discussion. You can't do that if you don't have a good gap, right? So if the distance between yourself and the opposing forward isn't right, and it should be a stick length or less when they get up on you in the blue line. You should be at that point of physical contact. Him adhering to that basic tenant of hockey is what enables him to get those quick up and into people moments.

They're not dirty. We're talking about, you know, shoulder to chest contact using the boards to kill somebody's momentum and allowing his teammates to clean the mess up, right? But I posted a bunch of really good clips of, you know, he goes. for stick check and misses, you think you've got them, you don't, the distance he's got between you and enables him to get his arms up into you and move you.

And, you know, he's, he's, you know, I got a clip I posted of him going against Mark Stone, who's a big guy. Yeah. And has a lot of mass and just moving Mark Stone out of the way. So it's like, it's that kind of stuff that's,

it's not just, you know, the aggression and the knowledge of almost when those fords are going to make those moves. it's being in the right position and being aggressive enough at the blue line to put yourself in a position to do those things. That to me is the foundation of all the stuff that we're talking about. But it is almost uncanny, isn't it? Look at all these high class forwards with all the skill, you know, that he almost seems to know

what everybody's bag of tricks is when they come up on them in transition. Yeah, I'd be really, really curious to. know how much preparation goes into his game because it seems like, you know, if you watch, like if you watch him play, I don't think he's necessarily beating too many of these guys in a straight up foot race, right? Like, it's not like he's necessarily the most fluid skater in the world, not that he's a choppy skater by any means, but his ability to sort of just anticipate what you're going to do and time it perfectly and understand those tendencies is so immaculate that it allows him to cover for all that. I do wonder like, well, what the preparation is like for him

and how much tape he's actually watching or, you know, looking at numbers and sort of tendencies of where players are going to go on the ice because it seems like he's got that on lock. The other night during the King's broadcast, and they did a fantastic job on their local feed, they flashed this graphic that was like all these sport logic tracked stats for Mikey Anderson this season. And there were a couple notable ones on the list. So he's first in puck battles one, which is obviously like a bit of a nebulous definition. And I think they'd admit as much, but it kind of shows you like how involved he is in these plays. and then how he's using all of these physical tools that we just talked about with his gap

control, with his physicality to actually meaningfully and functionally win control of the puck as opposed to just hitting people for the sake of hitting them. He's ninth in stick checks. And here's one for you. He's third in defensive zone past completions. And that was an interesting one for me because we talk so much about his play off the puck and defending, right? And I think part of why he gets so overlooked or underappreciated is because he plays

pretty much 100% of his minutes with Drew Doughty, right? Like this season, I think he's played about 80 or so minutes in total without Drew Doughty on the ice by his side. And Drew Doughty over the past year and a half has really bounced back and rounded back into his previous form and he's a fantastic player and he's much flashier. So I understand why he's going to draw a lot of the eyeballs. But Anderson's role in this is so thankless where he just seems so unbothered wherever he is on the ice.

You know what I mean? Like he can go back to retrieve a puck and he can feel pressure coming. on him and he'll still make that quick little play to Dowdy that'll allow Dowdy to then be in an advantageous situation to break the puck out of the ice and Dowdy gets all the glory for it. But what Anderson did there is in a really important part of like a successful breakout for a defensive pairing to execute. And he does that time and time again. And it's never like a long long bomb stretch past.

It's going to make a highlight reel. It's very like short kind of lateral side to side movements. But he does that so routinely and so consistently. And I think that's an important part of this as well. It's not just his play off the puck. It's actually some of the skilled stuff he does in his own zone as well that is really important. 100%. In all these situations where you're seeing him dispossess these players, he's making these

immediate plays to put the puck back in the possession of his team because he's normally not in a position to do anything with it, right? These are normally messy circumstances where you play switching from offense to defense and defense to offense really quickly. Sometimes they're five feet, sometimes they're seven feet, but they're right. play every time, right? Whether to afford or defenseman, you know, he's a good conduit,

Dmitri, that allows these plays he's making to quickly turn into something else, right? It's not like he's, you know, there's this whole process that's to start. Like you can get up ice quickly and attack. In addition to all that data you just mentioned, per every hour he plays at even strength. Every hour he plays at even strength.

one and a quarter entries allowed that lead to a scoring chance for hour of even strength hockey. So that's almost none. No one is getting around him navigating by him and getting a chance off of it. So I mean, that's that, you know, perhaps we've undersold, you know, I think at the end of the day, the reality is you don't see him flying into the zone, right, to pinch in offensively, pulling backdoor sneak in plays. I don't think, you know, his shots particularly, it's good and strong, you know,

that you would expect that from a defenseman of his ilk. But other than that, you know, that's it. But I think I probably have even undersold, now that you think of the data, his ability to handle the thing because it's not like he's treating it like a grenade, right? Like the data and the video, I think, both clearly show that he's able to make a good first pass under duress

and some really disadvantageous circumstances for himself, get that thing out and into the hands of somebody to help. Good area passes for Dowdy too. I think you may have mentioned that, but it's just ability to get the puck in an area where only his teammate can win, right? Or his teammates got a 15-foot head starter, something like that, right? You know, not a lot of turnover is off of stick.

Well, they complement each other really well. And I think part of what goes into that, like clearly he's it's a good situation for him to be in getting to play with doughty because he does you know make up for some of the limitations he might have in terms of that creativity that willingness to get aggressive offensively all of that good stuff but i actually respect so much when a young player is very like in tune with their own capabilities both in terms of strengths and weaknesses and then plays within their means you know what i mean like sometimes you get these young players who come in and especially in a big role like this and you're just trying to like

but before this eight-year contract you just got you're trying to earn a big payday you're trying to show that you've got all these different tools in your bag and then that's where you can get yourself into trouble sometimes and it's good to explore it's good to test the boundaries of what of what you can do at the NHL level but he's been he's found this like really nice sweet spot of you rarely ever see him stretch himself thin in terms of like putting himself in a position where he's like oh I just bit off more than I can chew and all of a sudden I'm trying to do something that isn't in my bag like he is very comfortable playing his role and doing what he does best.

And I think that's part of the success as well, where he just like, it's like clockwork. It's just the same repetitions of the same things over and over again. Yeah, I think it makes it too a lot easier on the coach to deploy somebody like that, right? When they're very in tune of what their skill set is and what their limitations are and what they're good at. You know, I think that that just helps solidify and define their role with, you know,

a lot less gray area, you know, as they sort of develop. So I think you've seen. that with him as this year's gone on. So, yeah, 100% agree. And I, there's never any distress, you know, I think that's, that's the way to put it is he always looks like he's in control of what is what is happening when he's out there. And a lot of the situations, I think that he puts himself in, you know, allow him to be a driver, right? Like, it's so easy, I think, to look at the position of defense as a passive position, right? As one, you know, the primary goal, right, is prevent shots and scoring chances.

And I think even the word prevent, you know, is a defensive word. And I think he gives you a picture of what it looks like to have a defenseman dictate the tempo of what's happening on the ice, right? That's the hallmark of all the greats is the ability to slow someone down and have them think twice or take a different route. you know that that's that's a remote control ability that only exists for a few and i think that it's unique to watch because you get to see that that the sort of role reversal that we're used to um we're now the defenseman's the one that's in control of the tempo and you know his aggression

level uh with how he's attacking the forwards is what's actually controlling the game well and yeah whether uh unbothered like non plus like you watch him play like all it All this stuff is just so smooth. And I think there's something so, in watching all this tape back and seeing the shifts, there's something so cosmically perfect about him being on the same blue line as Sean Jersey, because I think Sean Jersey is the literal antithesis of that in every sense for both good and bad. And I say it affectionately because I actually really like Sean Jersey's kind of chaotic game.

But from the handedness to the skill set, to the playing style, to the proclivities in terms of like the way the situations they get themselves into, I can't think of. of like two more opposite defensemen. And there they're number one to left, at least left side playing defensemen because Dersey is a right shot, like pretty much every other King's defenseman, but he's shifted to the left. And it's funny just seeing like,

you get Mikey Anderson out there for a shift. And then the next guy over the boards is Sean Jersey. And it's just like an entirely different viewing experience. Yeah, map for that, right? I think somebody pointed out to me, we were talking about this when the article came out last week. They were like, oh, well, you know, But I think you look at the data, like, Mikey Anderson is actually really good at, you know, busting that puck across the blue line.

And I think you're underselling his carryability. I'm like, yeah, but it's like he's got the sixth fewest amount of carries on the King's team by like a significant margin. But I think just again, like speaks to, you know, that defined role piece that we talked about and like knowing what it is that you're supposed to be doing. But no, 100% agree. And I, you could, we could do a whole other discussion on Sean Dersie one day about just the, the sort of like, what's the word I'm looking for sometimes want an ability to want to play offense is something

I very much envy in the defenseman so yeah well there's a lot of adventures right you go on a lot of adventures yeah because of the format of the show where it's split into two blocks we could do one block where it's like Sean Jersey the King's defenseman and then it's like Sean Jersey the other team's best player

and I can do the like a dichotomy between those two yeah like I'm glad we did this Anderson talk because he really is I think he's one of my picks for like legitimate the most underrated player in the league. Oftentimes, it's like a player who plays in a smaller market, but is fully appreciated by everyone regardless,

like the whole Sajl Bargop thing for so many years. But it seems like it's always a player who, everyone who watches hockey appreciates that they're really good, but maybe they get talked about less because they don't play for the leaps or the habs or the Rangers. In this case, you look at Anderson, it's like, it's got two goals, 13 points at 58 games. Like, doesn't really, in terms of counting stats,

you're not really seeing much there. What's the big deal? But then you look at his usage. how much he plays, how much he plays against other teams' best players, how they do in those minutes, how he defends his blue line, like all of this stuff. And it's just, it paints an entirely different picture. And I want to get into the conversation here with you of, you know, he signs this eight-year $33 million deal. He's going to be paid, what, 4.125 for his age 24 through 31 seasons, which I think is like a fantastic piece of business for the Kings. I imagine that deal will age very well for them.

And it's kind of like a, it's become a standard, like, shut down defenseman deal, right? It's like long term, four to five million dollars, and it'll probably age really well. But those players don't have that much leverage, especially early in their careers. The teams kind of take advantage of that to get them signed. My question for you is, you know, moving forward, I think there is a big debate to be had about sort of this like stickiness of defensive metrics. If like you're a player like Mike Yanderson, we talked about how he does all this little stuff well with the puck, but it's clear that the value he brings to the table is almost entirely

tied to him driving strong defensive results, right? I think he's like at the 90th percentile for even strength, D-impact. That's what he does. Yeah. I feel less confident in those projections for any player, not just Mike Yanderson, because it seems like there's nothing else to fall back on

or there's nowhere to hide if you slip up at all. If something happens, all of a sudden, you're a different situation, for whatever reason, if you take even a slight step back at some point, it can really go downhill really quickly. And so that's kind of sometimes my concern for these types of players. It feels like if you have a more either versatile game or you're more

offensively slanted, you can kind of fake it until you make it or you can at least provide power play utility or something. Like you're not going to be a total zero. Not that that's going to happen, Anderson, especially in this kind of like meat of his prime, but projecting that eight-year gap, I think that is a potential sort of thing to at least consider in the grand scheme of things, not just for him, but for every single player with this type of profile. So yeah, before we get into that, to just close out your final point from before, Demetri, is this,

Mikey Anderson is the poster boyfriend needing a second defensive award in the sport, right? The Norris trophy is always going to be awarded to the defensemen who are in the conversation because they have the most points, right? Like it's become sort of like an offensive defenseman award by nature. We need a second award for players like Mikey Anderson that like helps get them out of like those niche non-household name areas. That's just my take. Let's make a second award and then make it a defensive defenseman award.

You know, name it after whoever you want. I don't know. Yeah. But the problem with that, Jesse, is even if we did that, I have no confidence in Mike Anderson, whatever, it gets serious consideration. Is there we're still going to get it wrong? It'll probably be some player that's like winning it based on reputation, right? Just like with a Selkie.

Like, obviously, Bergeron's going to win it fairly this year. But that was like the running joke for so long where it was like, you could basically just bring back the same three names for years on end, even if they weren't still playing at that level, because that's how voters operate. And so I have no faith that a defensive defenseman award would actually give a player like Mike Anderson, his due credit, until he was like 33 years old and a shell of himself. And then at that point, we'd be like, Mikey Anderson, he had a good career. Let's recognize him. So, um, like time achievement award. So, so I, your other point is valid. And it's valid because I'm in Pittsburgh and I cover

Brian Dumlin. And Brian Dumlin and Mikey Anderson are very similar players. They have very similar skill sets. I think, you know, operationally, you deploy them in similar fashions. And Brian Dumlin had a lot of injuries to his lower half, Dimitri, that look, at the base of all of this, right, today's discussion, the base of all of it is mobility. Mikey Anderson can do these things because he can skate, right? He's a good, it's not, it's not the best part of his game. It's not flashy. It's good. It's good enough to allow him to do all of this stuff really, really well. If that degrades in any, maybe even non- insignificant, like a non-significant level,

you may not have the same player. And I know that now because the penguins don't know what to do with Brian Dumlin. Same struggle, you can't just deploy that down the lineup, right? Those degradations and skills can't be hid in smaller deployments because those smaller deployments are going to produce the same results, right? So you're gambling, right? But I just think that value is so good for, like you said, like 90th percentile, 90th percentile defensively now that'll be higher probably as he continues to progress and get better. It'll continue to go up.

It's a steal, you know, I think there's a risk with it, sure. It's a position that is a lot of wear and tear involved with playing that style of hockey and being physical by the nature that he is. but it's too good to pass up if you're the Kings, right? That's your potential top line shutdown D in really critical moments. Yeah. Okay, let's take our break here before we forget. And then I've got a few more points on Mike Anderson. We'll close all the conversation on the other half.

You are listening to the HockeyPedio cast streaming on the SportsCenter Radio Network. Breaking down the top stories in the NHL every day. The Jeff Merritt Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple. Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're going to be on the Again on the Hockey guest with Jesse Marshall

We're talking about Mikey Anderson Just to close the loop on the conversation Before we went to break We're discussing his contract And it should be clear like betting on age 24 to 31 at this price is is a no-brainer every time right because even if he takes he i think for the next couple years at least it's only but up and then at that on the back half even if it a bit slight degradation of performance it's totally fine i mean think about it like i think he's

going to be like the 80th highest paid defenseman in the league or something next year like there's a lot of margin for air there but i do think it's an interesting conversation because just philosophically i remember i think it was back at the start of the year, but how Michael McCurdy put out this sort of updated version of aging curves in hockey and specifically differentiating between like individual skill sets or positions

or kind of things you do and how that age is over time. And I was interested to see that for defensemen, their peak performance in terms of like suppression and their impact on expected goals peaks later than it does for forwards, right? For forwards, it's around like 23, 20 or 4 years old for defensemen,

the defensive impact was actually around 25, 26. And then that degradation process is much more sort of gradual than it is for forwards. And I actually found that kind of surprising because you would have thought that it's kind of the opposite. You would have thought that skill you'd be able to shelter them in certain minutes or, you know, on the power play, all this sort of stuff that they could still use those skill in their hands, even when their feet go a little bit to be effective. And in fact, it's kind of the opposite. And so I think that bodes well for a player like Mike Anderson as well, assuming you can stay healthy that he'll find ways to to be effective defensively and drive results, even if he slows down a little bit in terms of his movement when he's like 29 or 30 years

old. Yeah, 100%. I mean, all the stuff that we talked about, right, like that active stick, you know, the instinctual sort of ability to jump on plays, just the positioning piece alone, right? That can carry you probably some distance. And I think that, you know, again, again, it's interesting to have the discussion about what people perceive the value of defense is, right?

And I, like, I still think it's really low. Like for me, I, you know, this is a player who is, is competent in all areas and then really good and a handful of them, right? Not somebody who's going to sink you in breakouts because he can't be trusted to handle the puck. And, you know, I think somebody who is targeted with a level of frequency, Demetri, that's like, you know, higher than, you know, again, you're talking about a handful of guys in the league have been targeted on zone entry more than him. The utility you get in suppression and the load that gets taken off of your goalie, which is the most volatile position on the ice, that I just wonder. as the cap changes and money evolves in this league, do these valuations change?

Do these perceived values of defense go up? There are all these players, like you said, they're all in the same wheelhouse, right? Like all these contracts are within a stone's throw of each other and very similar. The terms are varying, right? You know, those change. But, you know, I just think that, you know, knowing how volatile, goal tending is and how crazy that environment is having you know that dichotomy of types of defensemen on each of your pairings is super important and and i love the puck mover and

mikey anderson type you know sort of put together these days um i don't know man it's just you know you can't you can't just target the puck mover and with these guys out there and say, like, well, we're going to take away, you know, the Sean Dersy of this pairing, you know, Mikey Anderson can move it. He can, he can still break the puck out of the zone. Like, we talked about his ability to make those five to ten feet passes. It just almost gives coaches, like this ace in the hole that when you give them this kind of player, that could be deployed in such a variety of fashion. The net gain you get out of this is way more than the salary that you're paying. And I just wonder if that will ever catch up.

Well, and obviously this calculus will change if they do wind up, executing a Jacob Chickren trade, but at least for the time being, based on the way they're constructed, he's like weirdly even more valuable to them as the left shot defenseman that he is, and particularly with the skill set he plays, because whether it's a Dowdy now or, you know, potentially a Brand Clark down the road or even a Jordan Spence, who's a player that I've really loved every time I've seen him at the NHL level, a lot of these players are like very skilled, slick players who can handle themselves with the puck, but then having a player who does everything we've highlighted that Mike Anderson does, he's going to fit in in all of those combinations,

right, and just be able to just keep doing what he's doing right now. So it's very promising and it's very valuable. And so, yeah, I think the Kings have a have a gem in him. And I don't know, is there any other notes on Anderson or do you want to move on to our next topic here? We can move on. I would just say you pointed out something very important right now. And that's the psychological impact of having a Mikey Anderson as your partner on a defensive, or excuse me, a defenseman that is interested in being offensive-minded, moving the puck-up ice, and being aggressive. We see that all the time. Like, you know, they don't have to worry, right? They have that sort of like security blanket back there. And knowing where Mikey Aniff's going to be at all

times, you know, kind of emboldens almost, the partner to kind of like go out and, you know, take some shots. So yeah, that's it for me. Otherwise, I think it's definitely a player. If you could draw on the East Coast, if you've got the opportunity to stay up late one night and watch some hockey and the Kings are on. And you like good defense. Look no further. I like it. Yeah, he's our type of defenseman.

Okay. Sticking with a Kings theme here, so this kind of was born out, originally we were going to do just Mike Anderson, Mike Anderson, and then watching his tape, I just became so blown away and infatuated by what Kevin Fiala was doing the season that I was like, Jesse, we have to, while we're on topic, we have to do this a little bit because, you know, a lot of his production. And usage looks very similar to where it was last year. In terms of the timeline as well, we started a bit slow.

And then as the year goes along, he's historically just like ramped up his game in the second half the way he is so far. But just watching from the eye test the way he's playing, the puck protection and the physicality that he's playing with on the puck right now is just so wild when you compare it, when you combine it with, I should say, his skating ability. Right. I think Fiala right now to me represents like one of the perfect combinations in the league or marriages of physical skills and like mental creativity when he has the puck. And it's just so cool to see that come together for him. Makes sense. He's kind of in his prime right now. But it's just been so fun to watch for me.

Yeah. He seeks out areas where he could be engaged physically. You know, like he is yearning for that. And then when he gets into those areas, We just talked about time and space being the most important commodities for hordes. Does not apply to Kevin Fiala. Does not apply to him. Mike,

the old Hall of Famer, Mike Lang, used to have this saying he threw it all the time when I was a kid. Demetri's, this guy can stick handle in a phone booth, right? And that's like the Fiala game. His processing speed is ridiculously high,

ridiculously high. And whatever you throw at him defensively, he it's just it's it's it's so fast the way that he can adjust and adapt and he's very like i could i'm going to try to limit how many adjectives i throw about this first thing but he's very staccato in his movements right his lower half is so jerky and what i mean by that is if you're one-on-one with him you're trying to defend him he'll turn his legs out and pivot at you and come at you sideways like a crab right and then just shift back forward what he does with his arms and his dangling is all so fast and so staccato that it remember the idea

of these movements is to make people react right that's why you deak that's why you do these things and i just think that he's got it down pat where it's a whole body cell right everything is moving quickly you know it's it's it's almost uh it's it's like a good it's like a good fishing lord demetre is what it is he's out there fishing for you to come at him and then when you do physically engage with him, what are you going to, I mean, when he, when he lowers his shoulder, forget it. He becomes rooted to the earth. It's just, it's truly amazing to see, uh, uh, you know, you sent me a clip, uh, when we started

to have this conversation of him doing it to Patrice Bergeron. Yeah, just shrugged him off like he was a child. And, and you, you know, you have this tendency to see forwards, like give this. People can't see. I'm doing a jerking motion with my shoulder. we throw someone off, no movement from Fiala. Bergeron just bounced off of him and he kept going to the net. And I was just, that was one of the most remarkable clips I'd seen all year because, you know, he really, he really does lower himself, get that low base and power to the net in such a unique way.

And he can dangle while he's doing it the whole time. It's this unique combination of power and finesse. Well, you know what's really cool? I can see that he really made the most of his time playing with Kiril Kaprizov. And they weren't necessarily like five on five line mates, but just like being with each other at all times on the same team, practicing, all that good training, all that good stuff. Because he's incorporated a lot of these elements that you're talking about

directly from Kaprizov's game. Kaprizov comes into the league and just every time you watch him play, he's keeping defenders off balance by opening up his skating striding that 10 to 2, especially like as he's entering the offensive zone because it almost like freezes the defender. They don't know which way he's going to go and it allows him then to be in a position of power. He, Yala does this kind of like little, he had this beautiful assist against the Panthers earlier the year with this like hook pass sort of like across the body into the slot. And that's like a Caprizov trademark to me ever since he's coming into the league.

So he's doing all these little things that I don't really remember being huge parts or core components of his game previously. And he was so effective because his game was so much more simple. before in terms of like being incredibly fast. And so he just gained a straight line as fast as he could. And that was good enough to score 20, 25 goals and still be a good top six player. But now he's incorporated all these details as he gets into his mid-20s that have just made him so impossible to defend. And so it's really, I mean, it's really cool to watch because you can sort of see that

natural progression from a player who has been in our lives for like coming up on a decade now almost. I think that's too borne out of necessity because I, you know, you're right. I think there was like a much more. simpler north-south maybe is element to his game where we didn't see like a lot of like the flashiness that we get now where you would you would almost consider him like a talented player that was just more annoying to play against right really fast high level four checker strong tough to move off the puck now you get like this this whole uh sort of like sense of like

like i think the league got on to that and he needed to evolve and find additional ways to the net and did uh where like the light bulb went off and he was like i could do this too, right? Like, I could, the, this disgusting stuff that caprice stuff is feeling out. I have the, I have the hands and the skating ability to be able to do these same things. Not to mention, you know, my lower body strength and my ability to stay on my feet. So, yeah, I think it was, so I agree. And I think that, that's, that's how forwardes, elite forwards, uh, evolve. I mean, that's just a natural evolution of becoming good, being found out about game planned for and now needing to add in order to be able to make things work because

the old song and dance is sort of like sold out on you and it's not going to just cut it anymore right yeah well i do want to give him credit for it right it is born out of necessity you're right but have have we seen like caspari capon him no no it's a good thing have we seen have we seen him incorporate any layers to his offensive game it's it's been all the same stop all the same notes every single time and you're right like you bump into to a limitation. But for Fiala, we're talking about him doing this at age 25, 26 years old, where he still has that sort of highest gear he can hit as a skater. So it's not like he's bumped into that wall necessarily. It's kind of like it's been a self-motivated thing in terms of

I want to be better and I want more from my game as opposed to being this one-trick pony. So I think that's what's cool as opposed to, you know, being this like veteran player who is on his last legs and then he's like changing his diet or changing his training habits to to squeeze out one more productive season out of himself. Like, this is firmly in his prime, and we're seeing him open all these different avenues to beat you with. How often do you see forwards add more flair to their game as they get older? Never, right?

That's true. That never happens that way. It almost, you know, you almost get the skill regression, right? Yeah. But that's what makes this, you know, I think so intriguing. I have to talk about, again, like, we do all these film studies about forwards, Demetri. The common theme in all of them is the drive to the net, right? Like, that is what essentially lands you on this show in these discussions.

Like, all of these forwards are operating outside in. And I think they all have like a really good ability to work their way out of your focus. point, like skate up out of the zone, loop themselves on a cycle real, real high in the offense is up by the blue line and then attack again in a drive. It's just interesting to see that as a common theme with all these players are like, they're trying to get themselves in a position where they can get space to drive to the front of the net and shift after shift after shift. You're just seeing that as the same behavior over and over and over again.

And if you want to be, I think, in the upper echelon of forwards in this league and in the conversation among the best. That's it. You have to be in these areas. You have to have that nose and that drive to the front of the crease area and that home plate we've discussed that everything Kevin Fiala does is a buildup to get himself in a position to make those runs, right? And then all the things we talk about the hands, the ability to operate in tight areas,

the strength, that's where you then utilize all those skills and all that stuff kicks in and becomes effective. but if you can't put yourself in those positions, especially as a good player who people are watching, defensemen want to have a hand on you at all times, they're going to be on your hip, you're going to be getting the stick checks, the harassment,

the attention all night long. You've got to be able to remove yourself from the flow, go against the grain a little bit, right? Open yourself up for opportunities. And this is just a shared commonality between everyone we've discussed up to this point is the ability to consistently do that with a level of success. Yeah, yeah, no, that's such a good point.

I mean, right now, if you look, he's playing on this kind of quote unquote third line with Alex Claifalo and Blake Lazot, who's another one of my personal favorites that doesn't get nearly enough love nationally. But those guys have played like 40 minutes at 5-1-5 together over the past handful of games, high danger chances in those minutes at 5-1-5, 22 to 4 for the Kings. Like, it's just, it's comical. And the goals haven't necessarily come yet for them, but they will if they keep playing this way.

And so, you know, it's a cool luxury for them to have that kind of depth throughout their lineup. And now the reason why I say like quote unquote third line is because I think Fiala still for the season is like their third most frequently used for it or something. So they're finding their manufacturing minutes for him. This isn't like a demotion or anything. It's just a matter of like balancing out the lineup and getting complimentary skillsets together. But yeah, it's been it's been cool to see and he's been wild. I was going to say wildly productive. But I think that would have been a unfortunate play of words for Minnesota fans who have been watching their team. Which like badly struggle at five on five. are pretty much like essentially just missing everything that Fiala is doing right now, just missing that so badly on their current roster. So I understand like their hands were kind of tied financially, but credit to the Kings. And, you know, if we want to tie these two together, what do Anderson and Fiala have in common here?

Well, they're signed at these reasonable figures for age 26 or like 25 to 31, 24 to 31, 26 to 32. like that's the that's the window that you want to be sort of tying yourself to an investing in and so I really like this club you know they're still flawed in many ways the goal attending is obviously very concerning but especially in a wide open Pacific and a wide open west as a whole like I think they have a lot of upside at the very least they're they're remarkably fun to watch and like how many teams out there can logically answer that third line like like deploying it as such you know Like, you just don't, you know, that gives you an opportunity to really keep your head above water even strength and keep the puck out of your zone.

But yeah, no, I, that, that, I, there's, these are really big impacts, right? At critical parts of the ice on super, you know, cost reasonable contracts. It's going to give them, I think, a lot of pivotability, especially as they have youth continue to come up through their system. to me to really cost-friendly deals, like entry-level deals, stuff like that, they'll have the ability to be creative and who they surround these players with, right? And they should have the ability to, you know, hopefully not sync their team with adding bad contracts. But, you know, if they make the right decisions, I mean, adding some complimentary pieces to

the young players they already have are going to make them, like you said, a handful to deal with. And they just, I happen to love any team that plays like they do with, you know, the goal of spend the least amount of time as possible in between the blue lines. You know, don't, we don't want a breakout that relies on us having the puck for long periods of time in the neutral zone, right? Because I think they understand, like, that's where bad things happen, right? That's where you turnovers, turn into like quick counters. you know, they're very much like work boot, you know, I think they do a lot of dumping the puck and extending, having these really long offensive shifts where, you know, they produce good

defensive numbers by proxy of not having to play defense. They have the size, you know, to continue to do that throughout their lineup. So I just love that strategy of, you know, a really quick breakout that, you know, has the goal of, you know, spending a least amount of time as possible in the most chaotic point. of the ice. Yeah. Yeah, I do as well. All right, Jesse.

Well, that's going to be it for today's show. We will solicit suggestions for future additions to the Phil Club. Maybe we can get the listeners in on filing some requests. And if something catches our eye, we can go with it. We're definitely opening the Florida to whatever. It's always fun to kind of just sink our teeth into like just watching a bunch of tape on one of these players and then talking about what we see. And I think listeners enjoy it as well.

On the way out, I'll let you promote some work. let the people know where they can check you out, where they can check out the aforementioned Mikey Anderson piece and all that good stuff. Yeah, so I'm NHL specific for McKeene's Hockey.com covering everything under the sun there, and then I'm Penguin specific for the athletic. So all my stuff there is going to be really just a very tinge of Pittsburgh's flavor.

So my next film study, Demetri, will be whatever it is that Ron Hextel does for the trade deadline. That'll be an analysis of what's in and what's out. come in here, you know, assuming anything does come in or out. That's a whole other conversation for another day. But yeah, that's where we're at for now. Well, hopefully you have asked something to actually analyze. It's been a bit slow in that regard.

Okay, Jesse, this is a blast. Thanks for doing this as always. We're going to have you on again in a couple weeks to do our next edition of the film club for the listeners. If they enjoyed it, they can help us out by smashing that five-star button wherever they listen to show. And check back in tomorrow because we're going to have another episode of the Hockeypedio cast here, as always, on the Sports Night Radio Network.