The Hockey PDOcast - Game 4 of Oilers vs. Stars, EDM’s Various Sources of Contribution, and DAL’s Lack of 5v5 Offense

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

Description: Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Steve Peters to break down everything they saw in Game 4 of Stars vs. Oilers, why Dallas' 5v5 offense has completely dried up, the contributions Edmonton is getting from various sources throughout the lineup in contrast, and how they've been able to build a 3-1 series lead. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey Peeleyo cast. My name is Demi, Timothy, Philipovich, and joining me is my good buddy, Steve Peters. PD, what's going on, man? You know, things are good. Life is good. We're watching these games, expected them to be tighter, I think, in both East and the West. And right now, there's two clear teams that look like they're going to clash again for the finals, and I'm really getting getting fired up for it. Yeah, I haven't fact-checked this. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think, you know,

through four games of each series, I don't think there's been a single result within three goals now. There's been a bunch of empty netters at the end of a couple of them. So maybe that's sort of distorting how close they actually were in the third period. But yeah, there hasn't been any incredibly tight ones yet, but there's a lot of fun stuff for us to break down. You know, I thought that the show you and I did to close out last week where we did a bit of a tactical review of the East Final.

between the Panthers and the hurricanes was a really, really fun show. There was a lot of good stuff in there. And I wanted to do the same with the West with you here today after four games of stars, Oilers with Oilers winning both at home and going up 3-1 and putting the stars at the brink. I wanted to break down everything we saw in particular in Game 4

because I think there were a lot of fascinating moving parts and particularly from an exit of those perspective, some of the adjustments we've seen the Oilers make along the way as these games have progressed. I think there's some fun stuff for us to break down. So let's get into it. What stuck out to you the most in watching Tuesday nights game four and kind of how the game progressed

and how the Oilers were ultimately able to close that one out? You know, I think what's been impressive the most for the Oilers for me is their ability to sustain the pressure and their ability to sustain the waves that the Dallas Stars try to throw at them. And in this game, it was the first period. And the first period was all stars. I mean, it looked like the Carolina Hurricanes and shot volume.

Dallas would turn and shoot, get the puck back, retrieve, turn and shoot. Not always high, high danger area shots, but the volume clearly was an issue for the Dallas stars. They wanted more pucks on Skinner. But Edmonton's ability to survive that. And their ability to, hey, we're fine. We're fine. We just ride the wave would defend as best we can. We get sticks and lanes as best we can. And Skinner will be there on the ones we can't get to. And we're going to be fine. I think when you've seen an oil team in the past, their inability to defend like this. And I think the Oilers of past, well, that's okay. We'll win this one, five, or six five, or seven three.

Like, their thought was they'd always be able to outscore their problems. Now they don't generate those problems. They don't have those problems defensively. And I think, for me, this first period was a tale of the series. And Edmonton's ability to ride the wave, defend well, well enough. And Skinner was there to stop them. And then they go down to score and leave the period one-nothing. And that's the way things have gone for the seven-ton-old team in this playoff series.

Yeah, I have it at the 1303 mark of the second period right after Jason Robertson's tying goal in the power play. It's 1-1 at that point. Scoring chances for the game, by my account, we're 16 to 10 for Dallas, and shots on goal were officially 21 to 13. For Dallas, then you get to the second intermission. That tightens up a little bit. It's 25 to 20 shots on goal for Dallas. Chances are 18, 14 for the stars still. The third period, despite the fact that Doylers are, you know, nursing this one goal lead theoretically. stars don't want to go down 3-1 on the road. They're going to make a big push. I thought that third period defensively from that pressure you're bringing up there from the Oilers was incredibly impressive. Shots on goal in the third were 13 to 3 with Oilers. Scoring chances were 9 to 1 by my account for the Oilers and they just held the stars to essentially nothing. I believe that one

scoring chance that I registered for the stars in the third period was on the first shift of that frame. and it was this play where Miko Ranton gets the puck along the wall, spins to the circle, misses the net on it, but it was a good look. And after that, it was essentially all either played in the neutral zone or with the stars having to spend time in their own zone defending and just working so hard to get the puck's back. And I thought that was really impressive and also a testament to, I think, how far the Soyler team has come, right?

I want to talk to you a lot more about how their defense core is actually helping them offensively, but just the team buy in here and what we've seen from them, there's just so many fewer defensive breakdowns. There's so much more attention to detail and activity from the forwards in particular and supporting the defensemen. And for the stars, a lot of these games have been spent whenever they've had the puck in the offensive zone with the puck kind of trapped along the boards for them. I think that's what you're alluding to with some of the shaw volume,

but not necessarily registering in terms of high danger chances, the inability to kind of break into the middle of the ice, get the puck off the wall, and successfully execute those plays, is just because I think they're trying certainly and they have skilled players who theoretically should be able to do so but whether it's a lack of execution or whether it's the pressure the Oilers are applying and I think it's a combination of the both

it's just been such an uphill battle for them trying to do so it's almost watching these games and games I'd lump a game three in here as well right it got more out of hand as the third period progressed but it was sort of a similar story where I thought the stars were playing pretty well we're finding their footing we're creating enough offensively and then you get to the third and it completely drives up, the Oilers took over and watching them these sort of sequences transpire. It's felt almost like

you know, Sisyphus pushing the boulder up the hill, right? Where the stars are working so hard, they're kind of cobbling together, these promising sequences. And then all of a sudden, the boulder just gets pushed down the hill with this oiler's counterattack. And every single star's chance feels so methodical or like needing five or six intricate steps to come together for it to materialize, whereas the oilers ones feel so much more sudden, and I think that just makes them inherently much more dangerous. Yeah, I didn't expect the Sisyphus reference today, but it's a pretty helpful. But here's why.

And I think what the Dallas Stars are running into is exactly what you said, and you go back to Game 3, that second period, the out-shoote, they out-shoote, they out-thoot Demington, 21-7, and they're throwing everything mad on second. I think the second period of Game 3 was the Dallas-Star's best period of this series so far. clearly lopsided, but when they go to the locker room after gaming up, a late gold to Connor McDavid,

which I believe that's one of the turning points of this entire series. Because when they come out of that, one nothing in that period, if they come up with a great period and they get some fruits for their labor and they come out with a great feeling

after that period going, hey, we finally figured out a way to get to the Sevenson Oilers, we just got to keep pressure, keep pressure. But then McDavid scores. Under a minute to go in the game and you go to the locker and go, here we go again.

We literally did everything we could do. We outshot them, outchanced them, outplayed them the entire period and it's one-one. I think that's the same feeling that they had after the first period of last night's game. Again, it's all Dallas. But they walk away and it's 1-0-emminton. And the frustration they're feeling in the room, they can't get over that. They can't get that next push. They have one push per game in all four of these games.

And then Edmonton rides away. And then Edmonton goes on to push this team out of the way. I think that's what making, you know, I like Dallas. I think Dallas has an exceptionally good team. I think this is a team that had balanced scoring throughout the regular season. I think this is the team that at one point was a favorite to win the Stanley Cup, you know, before Sagan gets hurt and that Duchenne Sagan Marchmont line was one of the best lines in hockey for the first 20 games. But then they're struggling to get offense.

And it's their best players can't get offense. And you look at it two things. One is the Dallas stars in their inability to get to the inside. And I don't think their best players are playing their best right now. So some of it relies on the Dallas Stars, but give credit where credit is due. Edmonton is defending exceptionally well here. This team is defending. And remember early in the first series against L.A., there was a lot of talk about

Bouchard can't defend and, oh my gosh, can't get sticks and Lays and what are we going to do about Bouchard? Are you kidding? Bouchard and Kulak have been very good defenders. Kulak has been on Rantan and not given Rantan any room to move, and Bouchard's stick and the ability to protect the net front of Skinner has been elite. So it's not just the Dallas Star's inability to create offense. Give credit to the Oilers who are defending as well.

And I can't believe I'm saying this about an Emmington Wheeler team. It's just it's counterintuitive. They're defending as well as any team in this playoffs. I think Bouchard's been brilliant. I mean, in that game four, he had a couple either solo rushes to create stuff led to a nice backhand chance in tight for Procol's in a couple sort of circling around the zone and the offensive zone extending possessions. but a lot of what he's done is much more subtle kind of proactive defending, right,

in terms of either keeping the puck in at the blue line and preventing the stars from exiting or knocking pucks down in the neutral zone and essentially stopping them in their tracks and sending them back the other way. And I think that's in large part why the rush chances have been so lopsided. And I wanted to get into that with you here because I was kind of mentioning the discrepancy between the two forms of offensive manufacturing in this series, right, where it feels like everything for the stars has felt so kind of tedious in terms of like how carefully they have to craft everything

just to create a good look from a high danger area. And I know, you know, Rantinen's going to be easy pickings here because you mentioned the top guys not producing and kind of how one-sided it's been in the Oilers' favor at the top of the lineup. And Rantanin through these four games has two secondary assists, no goals. I think most concerning,

he only has nine shot attempts at 5-1-5 in these four. games combined to put that into perspective. Alex Petrovich has nine as well. Cody C.C. has 10 and he was bombing away in this game four without any results. Unsurprisingly, Liam Bischel, another defenseman for the stars is 17. And that's clearly not good enough. Yet on the other hand, I mean, I jot it down because I went back and rewatch it this morning. I wanted to get a second look at it, look at it a little more closely. I thought Randon had a really good game four in terms of a lot of little plays, right? He has a one-timer from the right circle and the power play in the first, the cross-sized

feet to C-C for one of those aforementioned shots from the face-off dot. He has the back check in the third period against Henrique to nullify a scoring chance. He helps hints draw that penalty in the second with an entry, kind of cut back, feeds it on the back end. I thought he was making

a lot of stuff happen for them. Obviously, it didn't result in any goals, but just taking a bigger picture view of this series and maybe where the difference lies for these two teams right now, I feel like Ranton is just having to expend so much energy working along the boards, trying to gain any ounce of positioning, right? And just kind of how he's having to empty the tank,

especially playing in this game with Hints, who clearly wasn't moving the way he typically does when he's fully healthy. Robertson, who, you know, looks much more assertive offensively and has scored the only two goals the stars had in Edmonton. Yet I feel like when you play those guys together, there is a bit of a defensive trade-off just because there all of a sudden isn't a lot of speed, and you're doing so in matching them up head-to-head against McDavid, right? And we've seen 32 minutes 5-15 between Ranton and McDavid in this series.

Goals are 3-0-0 Edmonton in that time. High-angered chances 10-3 for the Oilers, expected goal share nearly 70% for Edmonton as well. And so it's a really tricky balance that I think Pete DeBurr and the stars are trying to find in terms of getting the offense going at 5-1-5. trying to create a little bit more, but not necessarily having the right combinations for a variety of reasons right now to do so. And so in watching Ranton and do all this stuff,

it's just the task for him right now is incredibly difficult, right? The degree of difficulty of what he's having to accomplish in terms of having to make every little play along the boards, but also then being relied upon as the only, one of the only guys who can actually put the puck into the net as well, is just a really difficult ask, I think, at this point. And I'm not sure what the workaround is for them with their season on the line.

But that's where it really stuck out to me in rewatching game four. Yeah, and it's funny because the Dallas Stars need Mika Renan. Clearly his acquisition and it was the guy that you thought was going to push them through this and finally find their way to the Stanley Cup final. But you go back and look what he's done so far in this playoffs. And his ability to turn around that first series with the Colorado Avalanche, in my opinion, that series was personal. This was a big message to the management of the Colorado Avalanche. should let me go. I wanted to be there. I wanted to be part of your team. I'm going to

personally do this. He hasn't have that same personal vendetta against the Emmynne's and it kind of shows that I don't want to say that he's not giving his all because that that's not fair. Miko Ranton is a competitor. He's a guy that's going to do everything you can to help his team win. He shows it as well you can see his emotions on the bench and that's kind of player he is. But it's not that same when he has that puck in the offensive zone. It's not I don't feel like it's oh something amazing is going to happen right now. matter of fact, I'm feeling the opposite. Eminson's going to close him off.

Edmonton's going to take a spaceway and it's going to be over. Like he's just not getting that extra push that you want to see him have. And trust me, it's 17 games into the playoffs right now. Everybody's tired. Everybody's hurt. This is hard, hard work and hard to generate. And I think McAranton feels he has to do it by himself. And as we know, you can't.

You can't win anything by yourself. And I'm wondering if that pressure he's put upon himself, to do everything by himself has made him even less effective because he hasn't shown the offense that he needs to have in this series. I mean, he had two streaks of no goals in eight games during the regular season, but this is unusual for him to go this long seven, seven game straight in a playoff series without scoring a goal. And Dallas needs to find offense. They have to find offense. And it's going to have to come from the guys you mentioned. It's going to have to come from Robertson. And look, Robertson has two goals. And one of them didn't even

know he went in. Like he didn't know he scored that first one in game three. And he gets a nice power play goal in game four. But he is finally starting to move, I think, since his injury, this is the best he's looked. And it's still not the Robertson we've stopped from the regular season. Sagan, who had periods of greatness disappeared in this series. Marchman has one goal through 17. Like, they need

to find somebody that's going to be able to create some offense for this team. And the worry you get is that attitude of if they don't come up with a good start in game five and they don't find some offense in the first 10 minutes. And Edmonton pushes back, where's that will going to come from from Dallas? I'm concerned about that.

and their ability to continue to push and try to come back against these oilers. Yeah, I think what you're saying there about Ranton is more of an indictment on the team and the situation around him right now. Agreed. I don't want to make it sound like it's about him. The individual.

Yes, it's not a slight on Miko Ranton. Clearly, he is the guy. If not for him, they're golfing already. So, so absolutely, I want to get that message across. Of course. Thank you. And I think he's as, like, he hasn't scored and that's what as a goal score you're going to be judged on.

So, you know, you're down 3-1 and saying, oh, well, the moral victory is you've had some good looks on the power play and often you'd expect those to go in. That doesn't really count for much at this point of the year. And so you need those shots and chances to turn into goals. But at 5-1-5, the space just hasn't been there. And there's been no real rush element. I mentioned the scoring chance count earlier.

Through the first nine minutes, I actually thought the stars were moving really well as a team. There was quick, seamless, transitions, they were getting the puck up the ice, just in the first nine minutes alone, out of the seven two scoring chance count, I think four of those chances for the stars were off the rush, and that was probably more than they had in any period in this series previously. And then that just completely eroded as the game went along. I think part of there was the Oilers were doing some really interesting stuff in terms

of applying a bit more pressure on the forecheck just outside the zone, as opposed to being too aggressive with just one guy up, and all of a sudden kind of catching them getting them stuck in the mud in the neutral zone and it was much tougher sledding for the stars there. But yeah, 5-1-5 for the most part, I mean, they have three goals at 5-1-5 in this series through four games. Goals are 9-3.

Edmonton, and despite the fact that the stars, you look up and in aggregate, they're up in shots, chances, expected goals, all those measures. You adjust it for score, and the Oilers have been leading for a lot of these games. It becomes much more even. And then you try to apply the context

of how these looks are being created and some of the rush chances. generating as opposed to some of the in-zone stuff the stars are and I think some of those series totals might be a little bit misleading and explain why the goal count is the way it is. I just think, yeah, I have a theory I want to pitch to you. It's a working theory that I think I've brought up on the show before, but I think in a counterintuitive way, defensemen are probably even more important for a driving initial offense in terms of kickstarting it and forwards are more important.

important for defensive stuff in terms of some of the back pressure, some of the support, allowing the defensemen to gap up, making their life easier on some of these exits by coming down low. And these are all hallmarks of what we're seeing from the Oilers forwards in this series. Whereas for the Star's defensemen and beyond Hayskin and Harley, who had a couple individual rushes in this game and are clearly all world defenders, there's just not much else there to help initiate offense. right? And so for a lot of these stars forwards, they're not getting the puck in advantageous situations. So the forwards are going to wind up taking the fall for it because they're the trigger

man, right? So they're the ones shooting the puck. And if they don't score, we look at their goal totals and we say they're not producing enough. But I think there's kind of a death by a thousand cuts thing going on here where there's all these little micro battles starting all the way back in your own zone in terms of defensemen being able to efficiently get the puck to the forwards in advantageous positions to attack and you compare what's happening for these two teams right now and it's night and day, right? Like this group, the Oilers have assembled in the blue line this season without Matias Ekholm even playing in the postseason yet is by far the best version they've ever had during this entire McDavid-Dreisidel era. And all of a sudden now they have six guys who are all mobile

who can get the puck up to their forwards, who can extend offensive zone possessions. And that just makes life so much easier for the star forwards on Edmonton, whereas for Dallas, they just don't really have that luxury, and guys like Ranton and are just having to do, I think, way too much creating. And by the time they spend 30 to 40 seconds emptying the tank, just trying to get them in that position, all of a sudden they just have nothing left to actually turn shots into goals. Yeah, and I think you brought an excellent point.

I'm a big believer in defenders need to help add to the offense, and that doesn't mean they need to be the guys that are scoring all the goals, even though Bouchard is doing that for the Evanton Oilers. it's like you said, look at the Evans and all the others in their rush game. And the rush game, absolutely for certain some of it is created by their defensemen joining in the rush and you're getting a four-man rush. You're getting an opportunity with the late man and dropping the puck. Absolutely without question. But the former is more true where those defensemen are getting the puck past the defense.

Watch their rush chances against Dallas in game four specifically. Dallas is pressing so hard for offense that their three-forors are continually below the top of the circle, continually. more often below the hash marks. So that means that the Evanston owners just need to make one clean pass. And it's got to be a good pass, whether it's off the wall indirect, if it's a flip over those three or if it's passed through the middle, which I hate doing, but through the middle to make a connection to an Eminson normally forward. Now it's a three on two.

Most of the three on twos that the eminent rollers generated in game four because of a great play by the defenseman getting the puck up the ice quickly, not because they joined the rush, but because they made an effective play past three for checking Dallas Stars. And that's where their offense has been different. Their ability to trap those three stars that are trying so hard to generate offense to create an odd man rush going back the other way, that's where the Hamilton owners defensemen are creating offense. And you look at the Dallas stars. And you're right.

Their first period, I had marked four chances off the rush. I thought they were great off the rush. The best they've looked off the rush the entire series. But it was because they were creating turnovers at the hash marks, which is something they hadn't done in this series where I just watched McConnell McDavid turn the puck over at the hash mark. or they won a 50-50 battle at the hash marks that the defensemen for the Edmontoners were pinching lower than normal because of the 50-50 battle.

Stars win the battle. Odd man rush is going the other way. Well, that wasn't sustainable because the Edmonton started winning those battles or if they had their third forward more high and they just weren't, and that's why after the first period you didn't see those rush chances because Edminton defended better. The message in the locker must have been, hey, on those 50-50 battles, either A, we can't pinch or our forward has to be above the battle in the offensive zone.

So we don't give up those chances. And they didn't. After the first period, those completely dried up. So you see the difference in how these two teams were generating their much chances. Edmonton's just playing to their DNA. This is who they are. This is who they are from since when they acquired Dry Settle and McDavid. We're playing fast. It's not changing their style of play.

It's getting to the execution and the ability for their defensemen to execute and get the puck up to them effectively is what has been really standing out for the others in the series. It really has, especially as you think, I mean, not to get ahead of ourselves because I think the stars are certainly going to amount to push in game five back at home to try and extend this series. And the Panthers on the other end have some work to do themselves to ensure we get that Stanley Cup final rematch from last year. But that bodes pretty well, I think, for the Oilers in terms of all that forecheck pressure we talk about from the Panthers. And some of the struggles last year, you think about that nurse CC pair early on and the difficulties they had and how. how tough it was when they were on the ice and now comparing and contrasting to this version, I think that makes for a fascinating rematch if we get it.

I mentioned C.C. there, I mean, his splits, as you expect, not to beat a dead horse here, but in this series, they're just getting absolutely cratered with him on the ice, and the numbers are significantly more in their favor when he's not on. And thinking about that in unison with how well that Walman-Klingberg pairing is playing for the Oilers, and what a difference that's made, and how nicely Walmans fit in.

I really feel like Mike Rear is kind of the low-key architect of this Oilers team right now, right? Not only in taking CZ's contract last off-season, but then sending Walman to them as well and helping just totally reconfigure that blue line and making a much more modern one that fits in what they're trying to do. Obviously, Mike Rear, I think, did a great job in accumulating a bunch of draft capital for his team in doing so, but both moves help the Oilers significantly. I wanted to shout out this out as well because you're talking about some of that four check stuff and some of the adjustments.

Bruce Kerlock on Oilers Nason does a really good job of these tactical reviews and breakdowns after all these games. And I wanted to shout him out because he was pointing out how, you know, in game three, and I think we saw a lot of it in game four as well, the stars had noticed that Stuart Skinner, he's been awesome in terms of actually stopping the shots he's facing in the series. Some of the adventures and shakiness has come in when he's had to go back behind the net and play the puck. And there's been a few hairy moments.

And so I think in doing so, they became much more aggressive on the forecheck. They started utilizing this 2-1-2 where they send both forwards on either side to attack the retrieving defensemen and try to initiate more turnovers and just keep the Oilers, him to prevent some of those transition opportunities. And the Oilers in kind, and this is where I think we can bring in Ryan Agent Hopkins. He's done such a phenomenal job coming back down low to support and provide an easier option for the defenseman to get the puck out. and then he makes so many crafty plays off of it. Mike Kelly from SporeLogic had this mind-boggling stat in my opinion. It was through only three games, so it doesn't account what he did in game four

when he had another two primary assists, but through three games of this series, he had completed successfully 87% of his past attempts in the offensive zone. And there's just so much ruthless efficiency there with how he's kind of picking apart the stars with a lot of simple yet effective plays. You saw it again in this game, right, on the power play, where he helps set up that give and go with Dry Seidel for the first goal,

where he frees his Ottinger just enough to make him respect the shot, holds him in the middle of his crease, and then dishes it over to Drysaito from his spot, and he has just enough of a window to get it by Ottinger as he's late to react. And then on the second one, one of the more beautiful passes you're going to see where he has space, instead of forcing a bad angle shot, drags it to the middle, curls it around CC, and dishes off a backdoor tap.

essentially for Perry. I think R&H has been the breakout star of this series, right? Obviously, McDavid is phenomenal. And what Bouchard's done, those have been their two best players and dry Cytle's created a bunch of chances of his own as well. But R&H having nine primary points in four games, they're up six nothing in his five on five minutes. And then all that other stuff that I mentioned that doesn't even show up on the stat sheet, he's just been incredible and such a difference maker for the Oilers. When you compare it to the stars and them not really having any guy from that sort of middle six area or even guy that plays on the top line but isn't necessarily randonin that's done the same for them yeah and it's funny because r h is one of those guys and

luckily you're giving him his flowers today but a lot of the things that rn h does go unnoticed because he just does them right and i think forward specifically don't get credit for what they do in the defensive zone and consistently doing things right he's a guy that doesn't make he's plus six so far in this series he leads the team in points and this series. As you said, his ability to create offense. And I think people do see that offensive side. I think you see the nice play and his pull up moves. And by the way, his play his play against Cici on the power play, C C C C's got to stay home there. What are you doing? Like, why are you attacking R&H? Just hold the back door and let Onger take R&H. But that's

another discussion for another day. But the little things he does in the defensive zone, the good sticks that he has, his ability to be an outlet play for those forwards down low. Huge difference. And without that type of player, and you talk about the Dallas Stars missing that player right now, I don't know who that Dallas Starves player is. They can play that 200-foot game they're consistently counting on to do those things. Rupert Hints, well, he's got the Jets and he can play out the offensive side of it, but I haven't seen him be elite in this series on both sides. Dushain, you'd like him to be a better 200-foot player,

but he hasn't been that player yet. Taylor Sagan, at times, has been great offensively, but then he's missing, missing in action. So Wye Johnson, another player that I think is one of the most effective players for the Dallas-Stars through the regular seasons on both sides of the puck, created turnover, used his feet to get puck up ice. Offensibly, the puck just found White Johnson, and he had an outstanding career best year.

And then in the playoffs, he's not being that either. So the difference makers for the Edminton Oilers are always going to be Dry Settle McDavid, always, because that's how the team is built. But without R&H, I don't know if you have Dry Sottle McDavid. He's the one that makes them look better. You're right. He has been quietly the best player in this series,

and I appreciate you giving him the recognition that he deserves, because sometimes the little things that he does go unnoticed. Well, you mentioned that play on CC playing the shot, and I do think obviously that's when you're doing kind of defensive arbitrage in that position, you have to make sure you get cut off the pass, right? Because that's the shot that's going to beat the goalie. I will say, though, you know, if you watch the start of the postseason and compare it to the way he's playing now early on in round one,

when the Oilers power play, and I think part of this was, like David and Dreis said it missed so much time to end the regular season that there was a bit of rust. and they kind of needed to work their way back into that peak power play shape. But the Kings were by design essentially daring R&H to beat them, I think. You're not going to be able to stop everything with having one if you were scared out there and with how the Oilers control the pocket pass it around. And so it was like, all right, well, this guy's going to have to beat us with his shot.

And then he scored a couple of those. I think he has 13 shots on goal through four games in this series. He's had a bunch of looks from the slot. He's been very aggressive firing the puck when McDavid dishes it to him. And so I think as that's happened, now you have to respect the shot a little bit more. And then he gets to do what I think he ideally wants to do, which is be that playmaker. And he's done that with the seven primary assists.

So I think it's kind of a combination of all those things. And they're going to need him to keep playing this way, right? Because Hyman, as we learned today, is probably going to be out for the rest of the season after having the wrist surgery and getting hurt in the first period of this one and now coming back. And so that line with him, R&H and McDavid has been so good for them. Maybe it provides an opportunity for Jeff Skinner to finally get back in the lineup and provide a postseason moment or two after having missed out on them for so many years to start his career.

So we'll see what happens there. But just the way R&H is playing right now, I do feel like gives them so many more options and he's doing so much good stuff, both all across the ice, but with and without the puck. And I want to make one quick point here on that goal that R&H when he beats CCC. I don't want to put this all on Cici. You have to give the credit to the evidence-in-lawless power play. Because when you look at that play again and go watch the replay of that goal, the attention the Dallas stars are giving to Leon Drysaddle on the far side of the ice.

They have two players across the Royal Road defending Drysidal when Nugent Hopkins has the puck. I mean, it's basically a two-on-one down low with no stars collapsing to the front of the net to help with that play at all. They got one taking McDavid up high and they've got two on Drysaddle on the far side. So because of the Dry Settle goal early in the game, the Dallas Stars are defending Dry Settle, even when the Pucks all the way across the other side of the ice. So I'm not putting this all on C-C. This was a team effort,

and it all created because Dry Settle and McDavid continued to draw the attention. So to your point, that's what happened in the entire series against L.A. You've got to give the attention where the attention is due, and that's Leon Dry Settle. Take that away. So the Stars had two guys on the other side of the ice when the pucks with R and H. So it's not all Cici's fault being aggressive there. He had a two-on-one that was almost indefensible when a guy has hands like that.

So I just want to make that point. We're not blame this all on Cody C.C in front of the net. Yeah, I think R&H has such an amazing patience with the puck as well. And it helps some of those plays develop. He had this play early in the third period that I noted down as I was rewatching where he gets the puck in the office zone kind of high in the zone along the wall. And we're so, I think, conditioned to as soon as a guy feels any sort of pressure, just trying to not get stuck high in the zone with it and give it away

and allow an opportunity and transition for the other team. and he's so comfortable just kind of holding on to the puck for a split second, kind of weaving in and out of traffic, allowing the pressure to bounce off him. And all of a sudden, he's in a prime scoring spot and he gets a scoring chance off of that. It's similar to what Sam Ryanhart does for the Panthers as well in terms of that patience with the puck and not necessarily being the strongest or the fastest guy,

but always being able to get to those spots just because he's playing off of the defense. So I think that's been really cool to watch. All right, let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we'll jump right back into it. We're going to close out with the rest of our thoughts from game four on this West Final series. As a whole, you're listening to the Hockey P.D.Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. All right, we're back here in the Hockey P.DOcast joined by my good buddy, Steve Peters. P.D. Let's keep going on game four of Stars Oil.

I'm going to talk to a little bit about the penalties and a couple of them in particular in this one, because I'm going to say some positive stuff about the NHL officials, which is a rare thing that you're going to hear on the PTO cast. Now, you and I spoke at some point, I think, earlier in the postseason, I think it was after one of those Panthers Leaves games when we were critical of the refs for letting the game get out of hand and letting the teams both kind of escalate in terms of minor obstructions that eventually gravitated towards full-on takedowns. And at that point, you can't really start calling penalties.

And so the game just completely got out of hand. And it became the prevailing theme from that particular contest. That's something I think we see often in the postseason. Now in this one, the first Oilers goal comes on the power play off of a clear Perry pick at the blue line on Grandland, where he prevents him from essentially staying with the play. It creates that space for that give and go with R&H and Dress Aidel, and the rest is history. I'm curious for your take on this in terms of how this stuff develops because, you know, L.A. Prevent was on the broadcast. He was positing that Granlin made a big stink about that play. the stars were complaining.

I'm sure the officials went into the room, looked at it, uh, deliberated and then all of a sudden we're like, all right, if this happens again, we're going to crack down on it. And then sure enough, in pretty close succession of the second period, first it's Perry again, high in the zone, Dreisel's kind of working on renting in. I mean, I think Dreisadel actually had the corner on him already and probably would have beaten him.

So I think it was a not necessary one, but Perry steps in with her pick. They call it. Robert's and scores at the other end to tie a one-one. And then just a couple minutes later, Marchman takes a, another offensive zone penalty where he picks Henrique trying to create space for Duchenne. That leads to the game winning goal for the Oilers where they make a 2-1. And so that was a big story here. I actually love that the refs were calling it.

I wish they called offensive zone picks more because I think it's a massive problem in the NHL, especially in the postseason where guys are trying to create additional space. And I know it theoretically leads to more offense. But it's just in watching these games, I do feel like that's one of the bigger problems. with the NHL right now. And so the fact they crack down on it is a good thing in my opinion. And I want to see more of it as we go along. Yeah, this one's hard.

And I at first all, I admit, in live action, the first time through, I didn't see the pick. And so subsequently I've gone through it several times. And it's Cory Perry. There is no question this is intentional that he picks Granlin. That makes a difference on Groundland's pressure along the wall to pick up dry saddle. And I can't believe what I'm saying this. If for some reason, Granlin may have fallen down on that play, he might have got the call.

And we don't want to ever embellishment, go, i.e. see the Florida Panthers series on embellishment. But, yeah, it made a difference. But to your point, I don't know if they saw it live either. And we give it so hard to these referees in this. This game is so fast. And the players continually get faster. And I think that's why the offensive zone picking is so commonplace now because of the speed of the game. they're just run out of ice.

Players run out of ice. And yes, sometimes it's intentional, but a lot of times it isn't. This play, I think it's clearly intentional, and I think it does lead to the goal. There is no question in my mind that it's intentional and leads to the goal. But to your point,

referees are human beings, and they made an adjustment. They made a correction. Hey, we've got to be more observant on this. We've got to see more. And you're right. Corey Perry's going to play like this. Corey Perry and Jamie Ben,

if you want to, you can call them every other shift for something. That's just the way they play. And they're going to have to, in game five, they have to walk that line to being physical, playing their game, being the agitators and players that they are without penalizing their team. And I think specifically those two players,

and Corey Perry has to stop taking players in the offensive, penalties in the offensive zone. So to this play on this power play, what if that takes them off of the power play? And now with their four on four. But Corey Perry, that is incredibly fine line, especially other dollar stars, has scored a power play goal again now.

And you have to be more careful. but you're right. Hats off to the officials because, one, this one, didn't get out of hand. They were able to keep it under control, even with the slash of Bouchard on Hintz's foot, and we can maybe talk about that later. But you're right, this game could have easily gotten out of control, and it didn't.

Now, if only they called more of that obstruction, all dumpins in the neutral zone, and then we'd really be, really be cooking. Can you imagine the speed on that, though, those guys are getting? I know. With, my God, poor defensemen are going to get just a nigh? If they don't have a little bit of impedance there.

I know. Yeah, I'm with you. It's tricky because I think a lot of them, I mean, there's some very blatant ones that go uncalled. A lot of them are subtle enough where like as an isolated event, it's like, all right, that wasn't enough to warrant a call. But then it happens 10 to 15 times over the course of a game. And I think the value of all those adding up going on called makes a massive difference. and can swing some of this stuff as we've as we've seen this postseason. I mean, you mentioned, I think you and I spoke near the end of the round two series,

the stars played against the Jets. And at that time, they were up three, one. We were already looking ahead to this potential West final rematch. And we actually made the point of talking about Ben and Marchman in particular and how undisciplined they'd been with some of the penalties. And in particular, the types of penalties they were taking. They each take one here that winds up costing the stars leading to an Oilers power play goal. They have eight and seven minor penalties.

this postseason between the two of them and all of them in the offensive zone and stuff that you could do without and it's not necessarily one of those relatively good ones. It's like, all right, well, the other team would have scored. I had a great chance if I didn't step in here and take a penalty to obstruct it. So that's really tough. I think Ben in particular in this series, I mean, he's just doing pure cardio out there at this point where they're not generating anything with them on the ice. And I think that's partly why not to absolve why Johnston of all blame, because I don't

think he's been good enough and hasn't certainly not been contributing enough offensively, but you look at how many minutes he's playing with him and kind of lugging him around and just not really contributing anything. And I think that's a large part of what's what's ailing the stars here, right? I mean, it's that you mentioned Dushan and Seagan and Lumping Marchman in there because they're playing as a line again. And especially early on in this one, I mean, they had so many good looks, right? They had that one where Say again wraps it around the net to D'Shaen at the back post and he just misses a flat. out wide open net, it hits the bar, and then it bounces off of Skinner's pad, and that probably

would have made a difference in this game. They combined for 25 shot attempts. In this one, Duchenne still has zero five-on-five points. He scored that one big power play goal in game one of this series, but it has not been able to, it not been able to create anything at five-15, Marchman has the one five-on-five goal you mentioned, and they've just been so inefficient. And so they got to this point because Ranton-in and Granland and that top line and the power power play we're carrying them so much offensively, but now that it's become tougher for them to create there, there just hasn't been any support from any of these other guys. And that I think has been really one of the biggest, if not the big difference in this series between the two teams.

And one of the things, with Jamie Ben specifically, here's a guy, one of the top players in the league in his previous version, I guess, you look at what Jamie Ben's providing now. Over the last 17 games of the regular season, no goals. He's got one goal in 17. games in the playoffs so far. So that's one goal over his last 34 games. And if you're not producing offensively, and you've already said, you can't, you can't will your way and force your way to score goals. But if you're not going to do that, you've got to do it a couple of other things.

One, you've got to generate opportunities, either for yourself or someone on your line. It's not doing that. And then the third thing that Jamie Ben does is he provides that, that grit, that pain, that player that bothers you, gets under your skin. And right now he doesn't have the speed or the pace to do that. So now, now his. his value in this playoffs has diminished greatly because he can't do any of the three things that you want him to do.

If he's going to go out there in every shift, he puts someone through the glass and he's physical and he's able to grind it out and win those wall battles, that's enough. That's enough to call it that as a win for Jamie Ben's ice time, but it's not doing that because he's not quick enough to get there. He's not quick enough to get to the 50-50 battles. He's not quick enough to put somebody through the glass. He's not quick enough to make those plays. He's not quick enough on the other side of the puck to great offense.

So right now, it's fresh. I'm sure for Jamie Ben to play like this. This is not how Jamie Ben plays. He's been able to bring something to the game. And unfortunately, right now he's not. And it's to the detriment of a team that desperately needs him to do something right now. Because right now they're not getting anything from anyone. And to get, your point, why, Johnson, I'll give him a little bit of a pass because he's a young kid.

And he's just, this is the first, you know, real, like, he's counted on to create offense. He's never had that before in the playoffs of the National Hockey League. So I do give them a little bit of a hall pass right now that you can't put all the pressure on Wyatt Johnson to be the guy that saves the Dallas stars against the Oilers in the Western Conference finals. But Jamie Ben, Sagan, Ren, and Robertson, Douching, they need to. Yeah.

I mean, on the one hand, Y' Johnson was just so good in the postseason last year where he was carrying them offensively. So I think you become spoiled by that and you just come to expect it because he's just such a great player. but then you look at the circumstances he's been in this postseason asked to play more of a checking role

and match up a sideman's not playing with the top defenseman early on and then the line mates he's played with for the most part aside from a couple shifts here they're up with Ranton on the top line it's been very difficult certainly and a big story that's been developing here for the stars the goalies a little bit

I mean Skinner was awesome again he stops 28 of 29 he's up to 68 or 86 of 88 shots that he's faced that he stopped in the past three games. Just on the one hand, I think it's so huge that there's been no stinkers along the way, right? And that that's such a big deal come the postseason where there's just no backbreaking stuff. There's no, oh, he should have had that. And if he's getting beaten, it's relatively full marks. The stars are having to do so much to do so.

and you can live with that and he's just taking care of the rest. And on the other hand, I think this ties in what we were saying earlier about just the way I think the Doylers are defending in front of them and the way this series has transpired offense versus defense where aside from that flurry early on that we referenced earlier, there's just been so little off the rush for the stars and there's been so little east-west movement relative to what you'd hope to do against Skinner

to expose a few of those holes and try to increase the light. that you actually score on some of these shots. And so a lot of it has been very straight lines, straight up stuff. And to his credit, he's been stopping it all. And it's remarkable that he's just given up two goals against now in three games of this West Final. And he's doing the job. And I think Onger has been fine.

I don't think certainly, I mean, when your team scores three, five, one five, goals and four games in front of you, that is the reason why you're losing this series. But I'm going to give the full marks to Skinner here for, for holding you. and up his end of the bargain and playing as well as he has. Yeah, and his ability to come back from a horrible playoff start, like horrible. And even when he gets thrown back in for that first game against Vegas and he loses that game, he goes, uh-oh, we're Skinner. The difference to me for the goaltenders here is, and I think they've both been good.

I think you can win with the Ebb and the throwers if your goaltender is good. I don't think you can win with the Dallas stars right now if their goal tender is good. I think Dallas, Dallas needs Ottinger to be absolutely world-class, best player on the ice. He needs to steal a game. That's what they're playing like right now. Because their inability to create offense, they need the goalie to steal the game, and they're going to have to try to win one-nothing. If they're going to get through in game five, the first star of the game is going to be Odinger, period.

I think their struggling offense is going to continue. They're going to have problems, so they need O'Der to save them and bail them out of the day. I don't think the goals he gave up in this game were bad. He can't get that Perry tap in from the back door. And that dry saddle, I'd love to see him get there and get across the post on that dry saddle. But it's dry saddle. He's going to score from there. So he's been good.

And for Skinner's defense, the numbers are insane. Like over these last three games, they're ridiculous compared to how poor they were in the first three games. But you look at how the Dallas Stars were able to beat Skinner in the first game of the series. And it all came from getting into his kitchen, getting into the blue. paint getting there to screen him on power play goals but it wasn't just the Dallas stars players getting in the way it was the Hamilton Oilers getting in the way when you go back and look at game one there were two or three oilers in front of them on every one of these scrums on the power play and that made the difference but for for Skinner right now make the first save and you're right most of those saves

are straight on no screen boxing out is doing great watch Darnell's nurse box out right now it's phenomenal he doesn't think about the puck at all it's turn find the player box him out and that's what's making Skinner good skinner's playing well not taking it any of the way from them. But the Evan Jones are boxing out. They have great sticks limiting those seams across the Royal Road. So you're not getting those one-time seam plays that you have to struggle to save as a goaltender. And they're also cleaning up the traffic in front of the blue paint. So you're not getting that second chance in tight, really good look on those tight rebounds that he was facing earlier in this playoffs, not in this series, but earlier in the playoffs

where he was faced to make that in tight save. And sometimes those were the pucks that were dribbling by Skinner. I think Edmonton can win if Skinner is good. And Skinner is good. And Skinner is good plus right now. He's better than good. And if he's better than good, this Evanton or the right now is checking. This team's checking every box, Dimitri. They really are. I'm stunned that I can say that. They're checking every

single box right now and that makes them so dangerous with only one game left to win. I think it's been a full team effort. I mean, there's a couple, you know, the way, we mentioned this earlier, but just to reinforce it, the way I think they've protected a lot of these third period leads. I know the one game they lost

in this series was an implosion at the start of that third period with penalties and the barrage of power play goals from the stars. But thinking through this run, whether it was game five in LA, which was a really tight low scoring game and they just dominated that third period, how they closed out Vegas in games one and four, games three and four of this series in terms of going into the third up goal or very tight circumstances and not really sitting back and instead just really tightening the screws and then pushing and creating more at the other end.

there's been a couple big pushes here from the stars that second period in game three and then the first period here in game four but the way they weathered it and then just turned it around on them has been impressive I think and the stars on the other end I mean on the one hand each loss regardless of what the goal total is counts for one but by my count the seven games they've lost this postseason they've been outscored 37 to seven in those games and that is that is an ugly total and I think a bigger issue for them in the moment is just the amount of time they've had to spend

chasing in this series as well, right? There's been four games. They've led for a grand total of 14 minutes in that time. They've trailed for 169 minutes by comparison. And so given the way they're having a play and how they're creating offensively, it's much more difficult than all of a sudden to do so because there aren't these transition opportunities. There aren't any sources of easy offense. and so the Oilers are able to get into their defensive structure, execute defensively, and then turn it around on them. And I think that's been a massive issue as these games have progressed. You got any other parting shots here, anything we didn't get to or anything you're looking for in game five?

Real quick. Real quick. And I know you brought up the LA Kings. And that's just how difficult these series are, because you go back to game four of that LA King series against the Evanston Oilers. When the puck was on Quentin Byfield stick, when the LA Kings are leading by a goal, If that puck goes off the glass and out or over the middle of the ice,

he says a chip shot instead of him trying to beat Bouchard at the blue line that ends up scoring a goal and Edmonds has been winning in overtime. This series is 3 to 1 L.A. with another home game to play. And that's how close this series was where Edmonton just couldn't get their engine going. Stewart Skinner wasn't going at. Evanston Oilers hadn't become the Emmonsonlers they are right now because Byfield turned the puck over at the top of the circles. And that one moment defined where the Oilers have since turned this whole series run.

And for Dallas, without rantin and beating his old team, the Colorado Avalanche, I think the Colorado Avalanche are a much better matchup to the Eman Chillers. I think they play a better speed game. I think they're able to counteract their speed and get up the A's quickly. And I think they provide more offense from their defense. And I think the Colorado Avalanche would have been a better matchup. But that's how tight these playoffs have been this season, because this series could have easily been the L.A. Kings and the Colorado Avalanche playing right now.

I don't think you're stopping the Eben Chilinnellers now. I'm sorry the Dallas stars are where they are. I don't see them beating the Evin, I'm in so much three times. I just don't. Now, can they win one at home? Only if they have a great first period and come out with a lead. And not just a great period and it's zero, zero.

That's not good enough. They need a lead after the first period, a strong push. And for Edmonton, just keep that in front of you. Just keep it. Everybody in front of you, don't worry about, hey, the offense, we've got to get our speed game going. Because it's going to come. Edmonton just continue to play the way they're playing. Defend well first in the first period.

I think Emmington wins this. If not in five, they're going to win this one in six. Yeah, I think all of that is is fair. It's remarkable. You know, a lot of the checkmarks, the stars hit to get to this point, the, the goal tending, the power play, some of the kind of bend but don't break, absorb defense, and then being able to counter off of it, the Oilers have essentially just flipped the script on them and turn the tables and done that to them even better.

So, yeah, all right, PD. I think that's all we got on this series. We're going to get out of here. I'll let you plug some stuff here on the way. I'll tell the listeners about the YouTube channel, whatever else you want. have you done the goal breakdowns yet for this game before? I haven't. I'm waiting. They're ready. You know, you know how hard this stuff is to do, to prep for a show and to keep those. I've got the goals ready. Check out inside the coaches

room. And if you want to see, I'm trying to do more of what else is happening in the game, not just the goals now, what a team has to do better to win, why they're losing. I did it in the Carolina floor game, why Carolina was able to beat Florida in game for what they did differently from game three to four. So check out inside the coach's room. if you want to get a day. And hey, this is a fans perspective. This isn't like, hey, this is deep, deep tech hockey that you need to be a level three coach to understand. It's not at all. This is from a fans perspective. What can I watch for in the next game that's going to be the difference between Evanton and Dallas? So check out inside the coaches room on YouTube. I think you're selling yourself short. I know you're trying to make it accessible to everyone and you certainly do do a great job of explaining all this stuff. But I think you deserve a little bit more credit than you're giving yourself there for the nuance and attention to. detail that you provide on that stuff. So if you enjoy the show, you're going to enjoy those breakdowns to go check that out. It's, uh, it was great as always having you on PD. We're going to do

so again very soon, I'm sure, especially as we get to, uh, the Stanley Cup final and press new matchup to breakdown and all that good stuff. If you enjoy today's show, uh, smash that five star button wherever you listen to us, join us in the PDOCAST Discord as well. And that's all for today. We'll be back Friday with plenty more to talk about and break down. Thank you for listening to the hockey PDOCast streaming on the sports night radio network. Thank you.